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View Full Version : Steelers hope Bell is rookie rarity at RB



stillers4me
07-26-2013, 06:42 PM
Franco Harris is the only running back in the Steelers (http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/)' 80-year history to rush for at least 1,000 yards as a rookie. That was 41 years ago.

Nobody is rooting harder for a second name to be added to that list than offensive coordinator Todd Haley..........


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/4402059-74/bell-steelers-running##ixzz2aCLTDKrN

Pristas
07-26-2013, 08:56 PM
I'm routing for him! Go Bell!

Big Ben and the Bell Tower. You heard it here first!

st33lersguy
07-27-2013, 11:17 AM
We need this kid to be a starting RB, we don't need another year of using 3 or 4 backup quality RBs

SteelerFanInStl
07-27-2013, 12:02 PM
We need this kid to be a starting RB, we don't need another year of using 3 or 4 backup quality RBs

He damn well better be, considering the other RBs that we passed up in the draft to take him.

I still have my doubts but I'm keeping my hopes up.

Dwinsgames
07-27-2013, 12:10 PM
no worries steeldawg compared him to Adrian Peterson , AJ Green , Calvin Johnson , RGIII and Larry Fitzgerald in terms of other rookies ..... so he must be the next Walter Payton if steeldawg places him in such high regard ... steeldawg is never wrong in any discussion / debate so we have NOTHING to worry about ( where is that eye roll emote when you need it ?? )

SteelerFanInStl
07-27-2013, 12:23 PM
no worries steeldawg compared him to Adrian Peterson , AJ Green , Calvin Johnson , RGIII and Larry Fitzgerald in terms of other rookies ..... so he must be the next Walter Payton if steeldawg places him in such high regard ... steeldawg is never wrong in any discussion / debate so we have NOTHING to worry about ( where is that eye roll emote when you need it ?? )

:lol:

steeldawg
07-27-2013, 05:58 PM
no worries steeldawg compared him to Adrian Peterson , AJ Green , Calvin Johnson , RGIII and Larry Fitzgerald in terms of other rookies ..... so he must be the next Walter Payton if steeldawg places him in such high regard ... steeldawg is never wrong in any discussion / debate so we have NOTHING to worry about ( where is that eye roll emote when you need it ?? )

No I didn't I used them as examples to show how high draft pick talent relates to starting right away in the nfl. Since you think it will be such a battle for bell to wrestle away the starting position from the great jonathan dwyer anyone with any football knowledge can see bell was drafted specifically to be the starter and dwyer will be lucky to get a roster spot.

Psycho Ward 86
07-27-2013, 07:49 PM
no worries steeldawg compared him to Adrian Peterson , AJ Green , Calvin Johnson , RGIII and Larry Fitzgerald in terms of other rookies ..... so he must be the next Walter Payton if steeldawg places him in such high regard ... steeldawg is never wrong in any discussion / debate so we have NOTHING to worry about ( where is that eye roll emote when you need it ?? )

alright we get it, you think the guy's opinions are hyperbole as many do. but if youre misquoting the shit out of people to get your point across thats some seriously uncalled for trolling.

Dwinsgames
07-27-2013, 08:35 PM
alright we get it, you think the guy's opinions are hyperbole as many do. but if youre misquoting the shit out of people to get your point across thats some seriously uncalled for trolling.


really misquoting looked like one run on paragraph to me ?


Lol my argument is not just based on his college performance its also based on the fact that dwyer was at the top of a rushing attack which was one of the worst in a long time. Yes I expect a second round pick to start over one of our worst rushing attacks, if not then whats the point of taking a high pick at rb. The steelers obviously think that bell is a better back coming out school than dwyer is right now otherwise why even take bell? All you have to do is look at the fact dwyer is 23yrs old and the steelers used a high round pick on a running back, that tells you all you have to know about dwyer. As far as the Edwards example who cares, I can point to A.j. green, rg III, calvin Johnson, larry fitzgerald, Adrian Peterson, .......on and on and on All early draft picks all immediate starters all successful.

TomlinSteelTribe
07-27-2013, 08:53 PM
I really hope Bell pans out. And I like that Big Ben/Bell Tower nickname combo. I can see that stickin, if/when the guy wins a starting spot.

But I have a feeling we're gonna see another RB committee this season. Rookies excelling their first year is more the exception than the rule. Tomlin might not like another committee but it might be his best option, finding the hot hand each game. Remember that before the OL had some injuries last year we had a nice running attack for a stretch of games, with both Dwyer and Redman leading the way on different occasions.

If Bell is the next Eddie George, great, I'll be thrilled. But I'm not banking on it year 1. OL play/health matters so much more. I think GBMelBlount agrees with me on this one.

steeldawg
07-28-2013, 07:35 AM
really misquoting looked like one run on paragraph to me ?

Lol you just made his point, I did not in anyway say le'veon bell was any of those players. Also why don't you try sticking to the argument instead of misquoting and grammar critiques.

Dwinsgames
07-28-2013, 07:41 AM
Also why don't you try sticking to the argument instead of misquoting and grammar critiques.


me stick to the argument ? that is hilarious coming from you ... every time someone makes a point you ignore it and go back to Dwyer sucking ( 4.0 ypc is not sucking ) and bell being a 2nd round pick ( funny every mock in the world had him no earlier than 3rd round and many had him slated as a 4th rounder )....

also follow this thread back and not just read the one post everyone will see the relationship ......

as a side note to put 4.0 YPC in perspective Arian Foster averaged 4.1 YPC
The Law firm of B.G.E. averaged 3.9 ypc
Baron Batch 2.0 YPC
Fred Jackson 3.8 ....
Felix Jones 3.6
Darrin McFadden 3.3
Shady Mccoy 4.2
Mendenhall 3.6
Demarco Murrey 4.1
Redman 3.7
Trent Richardson 3.6
Johnathan Stewart 3.6

just to name a few

steeldawg
07-28-2013, 07:56 AM
me stick to the argument ? that is hilarious coming from you ... every time someone makes a point you ignore it and go back to Dwyer sucking ( 4.0 ypc is not sucking ) and bell being a 2nd round pick ( funny every mock in the world had him no earlier than 3rd round and many had him slated as a 4th rounder )....

also follow this thread back and not just read the one post everyone will see the relationship ......

Oh the mock drafts had him as a 3rd or 4th rounder well I guess I stand corrected, jonathan dwyer should start because even though our rushing attack sucked last season at least we know what we are getting. Your right 4 yds a carry doesn't suck except when your only carrying the ball 9 times a game.

- - - Updated - - -

Im done not going to derail this thread just post your response in the other thread we where arguing in.

Dwinsgames
07-28-2013, 11:42 AM
Le’Veon Bell may be the most comfortable-looking rookie in camp. He was laughing and having a good time even though he was running last in running back drills. I will add that it is unusual to see a back as tall as he is..

steeldawg
07-28-2013, 11:46 AM
.

Running back drills rotation is based on age that's why redman is first.

Chidi29
07-28-2013, 02:37 PM
Running back drills rotation is based on age that's why redman is first.

How do you know that?

Dwinsgames
07-28-2013, 02:50 PM
How do you know that?


there was an article on it today ... he must have read it LOL

Chidi29
07-28-2013, 03:14 PM
there was an article on it today ... he must have read it LOL

Like seriously or are you just joking? Because that wasn't true from what Kaboly tweeted of the rotation yesterday.

Dwinsgames
07-28-2013, 03:17 PM
Like seriously or are you just joking? Because that wasn't true from what Kaboly tweeted of the rotation yesterday.

yes I am serious . let me see if I can find the link

edit .. here is the link

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/07/steelers-training-camp-2013-rb-depth-chart-age/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=steelers-training-camp-2013-rb-depth-chart-age

Count Steeler
07-28-2013, 03:47 PM
"We are at the very beginning stages of trying to identify the 53 plus eight practice squad players and the division of labor within that," said Tomlin. "So I wouldn't read too much into who's running with what group and things of that nature at this point. Really it's probably irrelevant. There's probably going to be plenty of time to ascend and descend within these ranks."

:tomlinism:

Chidi29
07-28-2013, 03:51 PM
Link isn't working for me. But a tweet from Kaboly yesterday had McNeal ahead of Hyphen. And McNeal is definitely younger.

Count Steeler
07-28-2013, 03:53 PM
Link isn't working for me. But a tweet from Kaboly yesterday had McNeal ahead of Hyphen. And McNeal is definitely younger.

Link works for me.

Dwinsgames
07-28-2013, 03:53 PM
Link isn't working for me. But a tweet from Kaboly yesterday had McNeal ahead of Hyphen. And McNeal is definitely younger.


strange I just clicked it to check it and it works fine ....

here is another link to basically same story http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/steelers_rb_leveon_bell_is_not_old_enough_to_get_f irst_team_reps/14153594

Chidi29
07-28-2013, 03:55 PM
strange I just clicked it to check it and it works fine ....

Works now. Computer was just being weird, I guess. But here's the Tweet from Kaboly.

361212192919527425

Dwinsgames
07-28-2013, 03:58 PM
Works now. Computer was just being weird, I guess. But here's the Tweet from Kaboly.

361212192919527425


well that is not according to age as listed ...

/shrug either Kaboly is wrong or Jim Wexell is wrong

Chidi29
07-28-2013, 04:00 PM
Hard to say. Either way, it's really much ado about nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Mistah Q
07-29-2013, 04:51 PM
Bell's running style reminded me more of Herschel Walker -- not that I'm comparing the two but the styles are reminiscent IMO. If Bell turns out to be even half that good, we're in for a treat. Here's hoping.

Bell probably should have been a third rounder but they wanted him bad enough and didn't think he'd be there at their next pick, so we got him in the second. Two sides of the coin. Five years from now if Bell is one of the league's best rushers, we got a steal. If he's a bust, we "reached". Time has a way of putting things in context but at the end of the day it was still a slight reach. Perhaps not enough of one for me to have a big problem with it -- and I did prefer Bell over the other backs available. There's probably little sense in playing the "what if" game at his point either. Bell is what we've got.

I like him and his potential but I don't know how you can call him a lock for starter. It seemed like things were starting to come together for Dwyer, but hearsay is that he showed up this year in terrible shape. Haley seems to be enamored with Bell but that's strange to me. We're shifting away from the power blocking that would have suited Bell (and Dwyer), and toward the zone blocking that would would have suited Mendenhall, who we dumped. It will be interesting to see how it all comes together, and if we can figure out what really is going through Haley's mind. If we can avoid the injury circus this should be the best O-Line we've seen since Hartings left us. Trying to figure out how to use Bell, Dwyer, and Howling, and maybe even a real fullback, might be a good problem to have.

Interesting times ahead...

Psycho Ward 86
07-29-2013, 05:08 PM
johnson??? As in will johnson? And jesus, i understand were a team big on making young players prove it but lol @ the rb rotation, even if it is just the 1st couple days. bell understands why he's here and what is expected of him. starting him in the basement isnt going to make him second guess that. i hope for the sake of competition that mcneal ended up that high because he might prove useful.

Chidi29
07-29-2013, 05:29 PM
johnson??? As in will johnson? And jesus, i understand were a team big on making young players prove it but lol @ the rb rotation, even if it is just the 1st couple days. bell understands why he's here and what is expected of him. starting him in the basement isnt going to make him second guess that. i hope for the sake of competition that mcneal ended up that high because he might prove useful.

Speaking of him, sorry I never did that study on Will Johnson. My fault.

steeldawg
07-29-2013, 05:38 PM
Bell's running style reminded me more of Herschel Walker -- not that I'm comparing the two but the styles are reminiscent IMO. If Bell turns out to be even half that good, we're in for a treat. Here's hoping.

Bell probably should have been a third rounder but they wanted him bad enough and didn't think he'd be there at their next pick, so we got him in the second. Two sides of the coin. Five years from now if Bell is one of the league's best rushers, we got a steal. If he's a bust, we "reached". Time has a way of putting things in context but at the end of the day it was still a slight reach. Perhaps not enough of one for me to have a big problem with it -- and I did prefer Bell over the other backs available. There's probably little sense in playing the "what if" game at his point either. Bell is what we've got.

I like him and his potential but I don't know how you can call him a lock for starter. It seemed like things were starting to come together for Dwyer, but hearsay is that he showed up this year in terrible shape. Haley seems to be enamored with Bell but that's strange to me. We're shifting away from the power blocking that would have suited Bell (and Dwyer), and toward the zone blocking that would would have suited Mendenhall, who we dumped. It will be interesting to see how it all comes together, and if we can figure out what really is going through Haley's mind. If we can avoid the injury circus this should be the best O-Line we've seen since Hartings left us. Trying to figure out how to use Bell, Dwyer, and Howling, and maybe even a real fullback, might be a good problem to have.

Interesting times ahead...

Power scheme doesn't suit bell, bell comes from a zone blocking scheme.

Dwinsgames
07-29-2013, 07:51 PM
Power scheme doesn't suit bell, bell comes from a zone blocking scheme.


what he came from does not dictate what he is best suite for , it is just what he came from nothing more . nothing less ....

Dwinsgames
07-29-2013, 08:38 PM
http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=BHRXK 7j8G31bg1$9KxdVhc$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYsatllxjzggfom UkyMDNGCSWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg


Bell may want to work on those pass blocking skills a little more if he is going to equal Redman or Dwyer in that regard , looks like fellow rookie Jarvis Jones is schooling him here ( note both feet of Bell off the ground )

steeldawg
07-30-2013, 05:43 AM
http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=BHRXK 7j8G31bg1$9KxdVhc$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYsatllxjzggfom UkyMDNGCSWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg


Bell may want to work on those pass blocking skills a little more if he is going to equal Redman or Dwyer in that regard , looks like fellow rookie Jarvis Jones is schooling him here ( note both feet of Bell off the ground )

He was very good in back on backers of course hes going to get pushed back a bit the linebackers get a 10 yard running start.

- - - Updated - - -


what he came from does not dictate what he is best suite for , it is just what he came from nothing more . nothing less ....

Yes actually that's exactly what it dictates and that's one of the big reason the steelers drafted him so he could fit into our new running scheme.

Dwinsgames
07-30-2013, 08:30 AM
Yes actually that's exactly what it dictates .

B.S ....

Master Blaster
07-30-2013, 12:19 PM
Dwyer - "but hearsay is that he showed up this year in terrible shape."

On the contrary, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/29/dwyer-drops-25-30-pounds-in-quest-to-be-the-best/

- - - Updated - - -


http://triblive.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=BHRXK 7j8G31bg1$9KxdVhc$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYsatllxjzggfom UkyMDNGCSWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg


Bell may want to work on those pass blocking skills a little more if he is going to equal Redman or Dwyer in that regard , looks like fellow rookie Jarvis Jones is schooling him here ( note both feet of Bell off the ground )
That's called, "getting blown up".

Dwinsgames
07-30-2013, 12:21 PM
On the contrary, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/29/dwyer-drops-25-30-pounds-in-quest-to-be-the-best/
.


thanks for the link

Master Blaster
07-30-2013, 12:50 PM
B.S ....
On the contrary, D., Of course he's a talented running back, but what he came from played a big role as to why he was drafted.

We all know that new offensive line coach, Jack Bicknell Jr. is a big proponent of the outside zone blocking scheme. It was a big reason why he was hired. It is also why Bicknell stated that he prefers smaller, faster and quicker offensive lineman to fit his scheme. According to Ramon Foster, Bicknell had him lose weight in order for him to be quick and mobile enough to get out on the edge and zone/run block. That prerequisite is also a part of the reason why Colon was not retained. Bicknell felt that Colon's naturally thick build was not suited to his scheme. The biggest knock on Colon switching to guard last season was the fact that he struggled mightily to pull quick enough to block down the line.

You said, Bell ran behind zone blocking in college. Bicknell was hired long before the draft. Therefore, it goes without saying that when the team conducted their pre draft evaluations Bell was high on their list of running backs because despite his physical prowess, his experience running behind zone blocking played a key role as to why he was drafted.

Dwinsgames
07-30-2013, 01:32 PM
On the contrary, D., Of course he's a talented running back, but what he came from played a big role as to why he was drafted.

We all know that new offensive line coach, Jack Bicknell Jr. is a big proponent of the outside zone blocking scheme. It was a big reason why he was hired. It is also why Bicknell stated that he prefers smaller, faster and quicker offensive lineman to fit his scheme. According to Ramon Foster, Bicknell had him lose weight in order for him to be quick and mobile enough to get out on the edge and zone/run block. That prerequisite is also a part of the reason why Colon was not retained. Bicknell felt that Colon's naturally thick build was not suited to his scheme. The biggest knock on Colon switching to guard last season was the fact that he struggled mightily to pull quick enough to block down the line.

You said, Bell ran behind zone blocking in college. Bicknell was hired long before the draft. Therefore, it goes without saying that when the team conducted their pre draft evaluations Bell was high on their list of running backs because despite his physical prowess, his experience running behind zone blocking played a key role as to why he was drafted.


see this is where steeldawg got off track ....

Just because it is what he is used to , does not necessarily mean it is what he is best suited to do based on his skill set and body configuration ....

the confusion lies in that is what he came from thus that is what he is best at scenario and that does not necessarily hold true .....

that is like saying well I know you are now a rich man but you came from the Projects so that is where you should live your entire life and you should not be exposed to better living conditions even though you can now afford it...

is it impart why they chose Bell ( because he CAN run in this scheme ) but that does not make it Bells best scheme based on everything else ....

he is a bruiser with some cutback ability not a speedster with tons of cutback ability ...he is scheme diverse but his size better lends to a power running attack ,,,

according to Fast Willie Parker's College HC he was best sitting the bench when in Pittsburgh he proved to be a worthy NFL competitor so what you do in College is not always what you do best

Master Blaster
07-30-2013, 05:27 PM
see this is where steeldawg got off track ....

Just because it is what he is used to , does not necessarily mean it is what he is best suited to do based on his skill set and body configuration ....

* He obviously was well suited enough for him to be picked by the Steelers in the second round of the draft.

the confusion lies in that is what he came from thus that is what he is best at scenario and that does not necessarily hold true .....

* That can be said of any player at any position. However, it is Bell's college production, his durability and his experience running behind the zone blocking scheme that endeared him to the Steelers. Obviously, he fits what the Steelers are expecting to do on offense.

that is like saying well I know you are now a rich man but you came from the Projects so that is where you should live your entire life and you should not be exposed to better living conditions even though you can now afford it...


is it impart why they chose Bell ( because he CAN run in this scheme ) but that does not make it Bells best scheme based on everything else ....

* What does, based on everything else, mean? Elaborate.

he is a bruiser with some cutback ability not a speedster with tons of cutback ability ...he is scheme diverse but his size better lends to a power running attack ,,,

* Who says that he won't thrive in the Steelers new blocking scheme even as a power runner?

according to Fast Willie Parker's College HC he was best sitting the bench when in Pittsburgh he proved to be a worthy NFL competitor so what you do in College is not always what you do best

* Parker said, himself, that he was held back in college. He couldn't do in college what he did with the Steelers because his college H.C. was a blind idiot for not recognizing what he had and for not affording Willie the opportunity to showcase his skills.

steeldawg
07-30-2013, 06:09 PM
see this is where steeldawg got off track ....

Just because it is what he is used to , does not necessarily mean it is what he is best suited to do based on his skill set and body configuration ....

the confusion lies in that is what he came from thus that is what he is best at scenario and that does not necessarily hold true .....

that is like saying well I know you are now a rich man but you came from the Projects so that is where you should live your entire life and you should not be exposed to better living conditions even though you can now afford it...

is it impart why they chose Bell ( because he CAN run in this scheme ) but that does not make it Bells best scheme based on everything else ....

he is a bruiser with some cutback ability not a speedster with tons of cutback ability ...he is scheme diverse but his size better lends to a power running attack ,,,

according to Fast Willie Parker's College HC he was best sitting the bench when in Pittsburgh he proved to be a worthy NFL competitor so what you do in College is not always what you do best

No actually his skill set and body configuration make him best suited for the zone scheme. The fact that he is a tall back makes it harder for him to get low and behind his pads in the power scheme, Bell also has great vision and quick feet which is perfect for the zone scheme. Bell also has excellent footwork and great patience in setting up the blocks and choosing the right angles, hes not a guy you want putting his head down and running dives into the back of the line you would be taking away his agility, vision and decision making all reasons the steelers drafted him to carry the ball in the zone blocking scheme.

Dwinsgames
07-30-2013, 07:17 PM
No actually his skill set and body configuration make him best suited for the zone scheme. The fact that he is a tall back makes it harder for him to get low and behind his pads in the power scheme, Bell also has great vision and quick feet which is perfect for the zone scheme. Bell also has excellent footwork and great patience in setting up the blocks and choosing the right angles, hes not a guy you want putting his head down and running dives into the back of the line you would be taking away his agility, vision and decision making all reasons the steelers drafted him to carry the ball in the zone blocking scheme.


244 pound RBs are considered power backs by everyone in the world EXCEPT you

Psycho Ward 86
07-30-2013, 09:14 PM
Something interesting i think few if any are acknowledging

Bell led the FBS in yards after contact with 922. Not sure why so many are giddy with excitement at that statistic, as if it proves that he's such a horridly hard back to take down

People act like bodies were flying and corpses were being flattened on those 922 yards. There are yards after contact and then there are yards after COLLISION

I feel leveon bell has been underwhelming in the category that truly matters. I dont care what kind of yards bell got with a defender patting a hand on him (something that constitutes part of the YAC statistic), i care that he is able to steamroll some fools because at 244lb., there is no excuse

Take a wild guess at how many tackles Leveon Bell actually broke his senior year....16. Call me crazy but breaking 16 tackles off of 414 touches is a figure to be ashamed of. Not proud of. Especially for someone portrayed as a "tough guy to take down."

I could not find any data on broken tackles for top NCAA running backs, but here are the figures for NFL backs last season:

Most Broken Tackles, 2012 RB

Player Team BT Runs Rec Touches BT/Touch 2011 BT
LeSean McCoy PHI 44 199 55 254 17.3% 50
Adrian Peterson MIN 44 348 40 388 11.3% 26
Doug Martin TB 41 319 49 368 11.1% --
C.J. Spiller BUF 34 207 43 250 13.6% 17
Trent Richardson CLE 31 267 51 318 9.7% --
Jonathan Dwyer PIT 29 156 18 174 16.7% 2
Arian Foster HOU 28 351 40 391 7.2% 32
Frank Gore SF 27 258 28 286 9.4% 12
Ray Rice BAL 27 257 61 318 8.5% 29

Player Team BT Runs Rec Touches BT/Touch 2011 BT
Jacquizz Rodgers ATL 26 94 53 147 17.7% 19
DeMarco Murray DAL 26 162 35 197 13.2% 14
Marshawn Lynch SEA 26 315 23 338 7.7% 34
Alfred Morris WAS 26 335 11 346 7.5% --
Isaac Redman PIT 24 110 19 129 18.6% 22
Reggie Bush MIA 24 227 35 262 9.2% 29
Vick Ballard IND 22 211 17 228 9.6% --
Steven Jackson STL 21 257 38 295 7.1% 20
Joique Bell DET 20 82 52 134 14.9% --

*There are more stats on the links below

*First of all, can i just say its nice to see our runningbacks represented well here despite a historically bad season?

*Now as said before, i couldnt find data on broken tackles for NCAA backs but ill use the NFL as a measuring stick since this is where bell will or wont be finding success

*For those who care more about a quantity comparison, notice that many of the backs on this list have nearly as many touches as Bell, and many also have even less than half of Bell's touches. Compare however you want, because there really appears to be no correlation between having a certain number of touches and being able to break a certain number of tackles

*For comparisons sake, Bell's broken tackle per touch percentage is 3.86%, which would have put him at 5th worst the NFL if he were here. And that sounds believable based on tape. Its really weird when people make him out to be some kind of thumper. He runs extremely upright and tall, and given his 6'1'' height, he runs even taller. Even when he lowers his shoulder, his ability to move (or fail to move) defenders is "meh" imo

*This is where a lot of people are going to breakout the "he had a shitty o-line in college" argument. Well if we can rave about his YAC behind his shitty o-line, why cant we brag about his measly 16 broken tackles on the season behind the same shitty o-line? Because something doesnt match up. And the component that can be deemphasized imo is YAC because that is the misleading statistic.

*He isnt even marginally fast enough to dance around as he did as much as he did in college. Quick for a big man, not quick for any size.

Thats why i think bell has some of the biggest boom or bust potential of any draft pick this year. He's going to have to lean on things outside of running east and west to succeed in this league. Luckily he is a well rounded back so i hope he learns quickly.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/broken-tackles-2012
http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/bell_leveon00.html

Dwinsgames
07-30-2013, 09:36 PM
Something interesting i think few if any are acknowledging

Bell led the FBS in yards after contact with 922. Not sure why so many are giddy with excitement at that statistic, as if it proves that he's such a horridly hard back to take down

People act like bodies were flying and corpses were being flattened on those 922 yards. There are yards after contact and then there are yards after COLLISION

I feel leveon bell has been underwhelming in the category that truly matters. I dont care what kind of yards bell got with a defender patting a hand on him (something that constitutes part of the YAC statistic), i care that he is able to steamroll some fools because at 244lb., there is no excuse

Take a wild guess at how many tackles Leveon Bell actually broke his senior year....16. Call me crazy but breaking 16 tackles off of 414 touches is a figure to be ashamed of. Not proud of. Especially for someone portrayed as a "tough guy to take down."

I could not find any data on broken tackles for top NCAA running backs, but here are the figures for NFL backs last season:

Most Broken Tackles, 2012 RB

Player Team BT Runs Rec Touches BT/Touch 2011 BT
LeSean McCoy PHI 44 199 55 254 17.3% 50
Adrian Peterson MIN 44 348 40 388 11.3% 26
Doug Martin TB 41 319 49 368 11.1% --
C.J. Spiller BUF 34 207 43 250 13.6% 17
Trent Richardson CLE 31 267 51 318 9.7% --
Jonathan Dwyer PIT 29 156 18 174 16.7% 2
Arian Foster HOU 28 351 40 391 7.2% 32
Frank Gore SF 27 258 28 286 9.4% 12
Ray Rice BAL 27 257 61 318 8.5% 29

Player Team BT Runs Rec Touches BT/Touch 2011 BT
Jacquizz Rodgers ATL 26 94 53 147 17.7% 19
DeMarco Murray DAL 26 162 35 197 13.2% 14
Marshawn Lynch SEA 26 315 23 338 7.7% 34
Alfred Morris WAS 26 335 11 346 7.5% --
Isaac Redman PIT 24 110 19 129 18.6% 22
Reggie Bush MIA 24 227 35 262 9.2% 29
Vick Ballard IND 22 211 17 228 9.6% --
Steven Jackson STL 21 257 38 295 7.1% 20
Joique Bell DET 20 82 52 134 14.9% --

*There are more stats on the links below

*First of all, can i just say its nice to see our runningbacks represented well here despite a historically bad season?

*Now as said before, i couldnt find data on broken tackles for NCAA backs but ill use the NFL as a measuring stick since this is where bell will or wont be finding success

*For those who care more about a quantity comparison, notice that many of the backs on this list have nearly as many touches as Bell, and many also have even less than half of Bell's touches. Compare however you want, because there really appears to be no correlation between having a certain number of touches and being able to break a certain number of tackles

*For comparisons sake, Bell's broken tackle per touch percentage is 3.86%, which would have put him at 5th worst the NFL if he were here. And that sounds believable based on tape. Its really weird when people make him out to be some kind of thumper. He runs extremely upright and tall, and given his 6'1'' height, he runs even taller. Even when he lowers his shoulder, his ability to move (or fail to move) defenders is "meh" imo

*This is where a lot of people are going to breakout the "he had a shitty o-line in college" argument. Well if we can rave about his YAC behind his shitty o-line, why cant we brag about his measly 16 broken tackles on the season behind the same shitty o-line? Because something doesnt match up. And the component that can be deemphasized imo is YAC because that is the misleading statistic.

*He isnt even marginally fast enough to dance around as he did as much as he did in college. Quick for a big man, not quick for any size.

Thats why i think bell has some of the biggest boom or bust potential of any draft pick this year. He's going to have to lean on things outside of running east and west to succeed in this league. Luckily he is a well rounded back so i hope he learns quickly.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/broken-tackles-2012
http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/bell_leveon00.html


wow good post ...

Interesting stat , I had not realized how few of tackles he broke ...guess his YPC and YAContact numbers leads one to believe those numbers would be higher ... I think I have a game or two of MS around here yet will have to get another look ....

consequently I would not attribute the O Line play to broken tackles anyways , any argument making that comparison would be a desperation argument IMO , broken tackles are on the Back not the line ..his line was not great by any stretch but it was not horrendous either

Jaucer
07-30-2013, 10:06 PM
wow good post ...

Interesting stat , I had not realized how few of tackles he broke ...guess his YPC and YAContact numbers leads one to believe those numbers would be higher ... I think I have a game or two of MS around here yet will have to get another look ....

consequently I would not attribute the O Line play to broken tackles anyways , any argument making that comparison would be a desperation argument IMO , broken tackles are on the Back not the line ..his line was not great by any stretch but it was not horrendous either

That is whay stats are the biggest bunch of BS there is. I'm not going ot look it up but I'd be willing to bet that Barry Sanders YAC yards are a lot better than his broken tackles stat. If you have the ablility to make a defender miss you then your broken tackles stat will be way down. That doesn't mean anything aobut your ability to run the ball affectively. However the two stats combined can have great meaning. Low YAC and low broken tackles stats probalby doesn't bode well unless you have a high ypc average which would indicate superior o-line blocking. Conciquently high YAC and high broken tackle stats would be a very welcome combination especailly with high ypc.

Craic
07-30-2013, 10:15 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.co/instances/600x/32718284.jpg

Craic
07-30-2013, 10:20 PM
wow good post ...

Interesting stat , I had not realized how few of tackles he broke ...guess his YPC and YAContact numbers leads one to believe those numbers would be higher ... I think I have a game or two of MS around here yet will have to get another look ....

consequently I would not attribute the O Line play to broken tackles anyways , any argument making that comparison would be a desperation argument IMO , broken tackles are on the Back not the line ..his line was not great by any stretch but it was not horrendous either
I agree, that post was very well put together and argued. Nice to see.

Dwinsgames
07-30-2013, 10:23 PM
That is whay stats are the biggest bunch of BS there is. I'm not going ot look it up but I'd be willing to bet that Barry Sanders YAC yards are a lot better than his broken tackles stat. If you have the ablility to make a defender miss you then your broken tackles stat will be way down. That doesn't mean anything aobut your ability to run the ball affectively. However the two stats combined can have great meaning. Low YAC and low broken tackles stats probalby doesn't bode well unless you have a high ypc average which would indicate superior o-line blocking. Conciquently high YAC and high broken tackle stats would be a very welcome combination especailly with high ypc.

wow we have another Draftsteel member join here , Welcome Jaucer !!

Psycho Ward 86
07-30-2013, 11:01 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.co/instances/600x/32718284.jpg

hahaha!

steeldawg
07-31-2013, 05:46 AM
244 pound RBs are considered power backs by everyone in the world EXCEPT you

just because he's a big back doesn't mean he's best suited to run a power scheme your completely ignoring his agility , his height, his footwork, his patience, and his ability to set up blocks. Willie parker for example was best in a power scheme because he just had to put his head down and run to daylight, if you had put him in the zone blocking scheme he would have been out running lineman destroying the angles that the scheme is designed to create and he did not have great vision. Running the zone blocking scheme has nothing to do with size it has to do with a running back whos patient enough to set up blocks and pick the right holes.

Master Blaster
07-31-2013, 06:47 AM
Then again, the Steelers could have selected a Jerome Bettis clone in Eddie Lacey.
http://www.packers.com/media-center/photo-gallery/Training-Camp-practice-Day-3/fa3b6ef3-1e0c-4551-985d-916edc2a9e5a#baea6e9e-f9f0-4a64-8859-74df30ea2c1a

Dwinsgames
07-31-2013, 07:17 AM
just because he's a big back doesn't mean he's best suited to run a power scheme your completely ignoring his agility , his height, his footwork, his patience, and his ability to set up blocks. Willie parker for example was best in a power scheme because he just had to put his head down and run to daylight, if you had put him in the zone blocking scheme he would have been out running lineman destroying the angles that the scheme is designed to create and he did not have great vision. Running the zone blocking scheme has nothing to do with size it has to do with a running back whos patient enough to set up blocks and pick the right holes.

sounds like you are describing Jerome Bettis

polamalubeast
07-31-2013, 06:01 PM
Mark Kaboly ‏@MarkKaboly_Trib 1m
If Le'Veon Bell keeps progressing like this, no way Tomlin will be able to keep him out of the starting lineup. He's the real deal

....

SteelerFanInStl
07-31-2013, 06:37 PM
I think that it's a bit early to declare someone "the real deal".

steeldawg
07-31-2013, 07:24 PM
said it before and I will say it again, steal of the draft kid's a monster.

Pristas
07-31-2013, 07:58 PM
Another impressive day of camp for Bell. The media is liking him a lot. From Kaboly:

If Le'Veon Bell keeps progressing like this, no way Tomlin will be able to keep him out of the starting lineup. He's the real deal

Seven
07-31-2013, 10:31 PM
I like Bell, but it's July. I don't see how on earth we're even debating how good he is or isn't yet.

blitz
08-03-2013, 03:19 AM
I will acknowledge Dwyer has some natural ability but there is no way I am pulling for him to be a starter for the pure fact that it took him 3 years to come to camp in shape. As a 6th round pick he couldnt motivate and prepare himself to compete at the NFL level. The one thing nearly every rookie can control in terms of preparing to compete as a professional at the NFL level is there conditioning. By him coming in out of shape shows his true colors and cannot be trusted. Bell on the other hand a 2nd round pick predicited favorite to win starting job, comes into camp 15lbs under his playing weight in college...Prepared to compete for an NFL job! If i was a betting man...my money is on Bell!

blitz
08-03-2013, 03:31 AM
Bell had the fastest 3 cone drill out of all the running backs at the combine...not bad for a power back! Shows he has freakish quicknes at 6'1 230 explosive in short areas and change of directions. a drill smaller lighter guys dominate.

blitz
08-03-2013, 03:36 AM
Correction 3rd best time!

steeldevil
08-03-2013, 10:35 AM
* Parker said, himself, that he was held back in college. He couldn't do in college what he did with the Steelers because his college H.C. was a blind idiot for not recognizing what he had and for not affording Willie the opportunity to showcase his skills.

Well he did go to Carolina... So yeah, bunch of idiots.

Spike
08-03-2013, 11:12 AM
LATROBE, Pa.--Pit bits: Le'Veon Bell's quicks/blocking stand out ... S Shamarko Thomas primed to be next top Pit S


Best rookies I've seen: 1 Cle OLB Barkevious Mingo, 2 Pit RB Le'Veon Bell, 3 Sea RB Christine Michael, 4 Buf QB EJ Manuel

https://twitter.com/SI_PeterKing


Steelers rookie Le'Veon Bell shows NFL-ready skills, from patience to pass protection

http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index...kie_lev_1.html