Detroit

[Hindes204]

http://youtu.be/V6Su5mjQSaE

whoops....

DETROIT – Detroit filed the largest-ever municipal bankruptcy in U.S. history on Thursday, marking a new low for a city that was the cradle of the U.S. automotive industry and setting the stage for a costly court battle with creditors.

http://news.msn.com/us/detroit-bankruptcy-first-step-in-restoring-the-city

[oneforthetoe]

That is just sad in so many ways. The American car industry helped define the American dream. To have the hub of that industry go bankrupt is just depressing.

[fansince'76]

The entire state of California will probably be next, and eventually the entire country.

[Spike]

http://www.fivefeetoffury.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/hiroshima-detroit.jpg.pagespeed.ce.F7UPG9H-IR.jpg

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu179/odin2009/LIB2_zps71f7cfe0.jpg

[Dwinsgames]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMx__6Zc3S0

[Mach1]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s843x403/540208_496284367120603_2579285_n.jpg

[st33lersguy]

This is the product of half a century of liberal policies. Of course the media refuses to point that out

[Hindes204]

This is the product of half a century of liberal policies. Of course the media refuses to point that out

Yup, about 51 years of one party rule. The consequences of liberalism defined

[steeldawg]

This is the product of half a century of liberal policies. Of course the media refuses to point that out

This has nothing to do at all with "liberal policies", Detriot was a city based on the auto industry and decades ago when auto makers figured out they could cut costs by building factories in in cities across the U.S. they did, also the influx of japenese cars drastically cut into the auto business. As the good jobs started to dwindle, people started to leave and of course so did businesses which drastically drove down tax revenue. Less tax revenue meant less money for police so crime rates where on the rise which drove even more people away from the city. Detriot has been surviving on borrowed money for decades but they just have not been able to draw corporations to the city and if your not bringing in business your not bringing in people therefore not bringing in money.

[Hindes204]

The powerful unions played a huge role in this. The auto unions can blame themselves for the failing auto industry, and the teachers union can blame themselves for the failing education system....both unions are well known liberal supporters

[st33lersguy]

This has nothing to do at all with "liberal policies", Detriot was a city based on the auto industry and decades ago when auto makers figured out they could cut costs by building factories in in cities across the U.S. they did, also the influx of japenese cars drastically cut into the auto business. As the good jobs started to dwindle, people started to leave and of course so did businesses which drastically drove down tax revenue. Less tax revenue meant less money for police so crime rates where on the rise which drove even more people away from the city. Detriot has been surviving on borrowed money for decades but they just have not been able to draw corporations to the city and if your not bringing in business your not bringing in people therefore not bringing in money.

Businesses left and never came back because of the high taxes in Detroit. You also forgot to mention how the greedy public sector unions drove up the debt with enormous benefits and pensions that cannot possibly be paid for and how the liberals in city council allowed for that to happen because they were getting support and donations from the public sector unions

[7SteelGal43]

That is just sad in so many ways. The American car industry helped define the American dream. To have the hub of that industry go bankrupt is just depressing.

It's drepressing as hell. To have the industrial side of our economy which employed so many become all but extinct is just sad sad sad.

[steeldawg]

Businesses left and never came back because of the high taxes in Detroit. You also forgot to mention how the greedy public sector unions drove up the debt with enormous benefits and pensions that cannot possibly be paid for and how the liberals in city council allowed for that to happen because they were getting support and donations from the public sector unions

No that's not true businesses left because people where leaving the city as auto plants where shutting down, so businesses had no choice to leave because their customer base was leaving. Of course public sector drove the debt up because their was not enough tax revenue to keep the city running so automatically you are going to go into debt, but pensions and public the public sector most certainly did not put Detroit on decades of decline and into bankruptcy, cities across the country have a public sector, pensions, and unions and they survive. Its very simple, businesses can not survive without a customer base and when the auto plants where dying so where all of those good middle class manufacturing jobs which in turn was the loss of a huge customer base and a huge tax base.

- - - Updated - - -


It's drepressing as hell. To have the industrial side of our economy which employed so many become all but extinct is just sad sad sad.

Bringing industry and manufacturing back to this country is the only thing that is going to put us on track, It just creates so many good paying jobs.

[silver & black]

Bringing industry and manufacturing back to this country is the only thing that is going to put us on track, It just creates so many good paying jobs.

Yes, but in order to bring industry, manufacturing and good paying jobs back to this country, the corporations that supply those good paying jobs must be allowed to operate at a profit without being taxed out of the country. It's easy to call corporations evil and greedy, but the reality is that those evil, greedy corporations supply the very jobs everyone wants.

[GoSlash27]

This has nothing to do at all with "liberal policies", Detriot was a city based on the auto industry and decades ago when auto makers figured out they could cut costs by building factories in in cities across the U.S. they did, also the influx of japenese cars drastically cut into the auto business. As the good jobs started to dwindle, people started to leave and of course so did businesses which drastically drove down tax revenue. Less tax revenue meant less money for police so crime rates where on the rise which drove even more people away from the city. Detriot has been surviving on borrowed money for decades but they just have not been able to draw corporations to the city and if your not bringing in business your not bringing in people therefore not bringing in money.

This is *absolutely* due to liberal policies. If it was merely a case of diminishing population and revenues, the city would've been able to downsize accordingly and pay their bills.
Setting aside the fact that the population and revenue shrunk, why did the bills *not* shrink? A: Pension deals they made to buy the public worker's union with no thought or care as to how they were going to pay for it. Liberal policy.
Looking at the fact that the population and revenue shrunk, why did that happen? Primarily the death of the auto industry. Already addressed above; liberal policy.
That city's government had been loaded with graft, waste and corruption for decades, and nobody cared enough to fix it before it was too late.
Liberal policies are all about free lunches, and this is the inevitable result of that, 'cuz there ain't no such thing.

[steeldawg]

Yes, but in order to bring industry, manufacturing and good paying jobs back to this country, the corporations that supply those good paying jobs must be allowed to operate at a profit without being taxed out of the country. It's easy to call corporations evil and greedy, but the reality is that those evil, greedy corporations supply the very jobs everyone wants.

Its really not taxes if you look at what corporations are actually paying, sure the statutory rate of 35% is high but the effective rate is like 12%. The problem is the manufacturing Can be done at very low wages in other countries as opposed to having to do it in America and have to pay American workers good wages and benefits, also they don't want to deal with the regulation. The reality is they don't provide the jobs anymore the jobs are outsourced and that's the problem. These large corporations are not hurting for money they are not fighting dwindling profits, they are actually making more money than ever. Taxes are a minor issue for large corporations they have great tax attorneys and accountants that allow them to pay tax rates that you and me could only hope to pay. Corporations don't bring our manufacturing jobs back to the US because it cost pennies on the dollar to do it overseas. Wether you classify it as evil or smart business practice is irrelevant but either way its not good for Americas workforce.

[Hindes204]

Its really not taxes if you look at what corporations are actually paying, sure the statutory rate of 35% is high but the effective rate is like 12%. The problem is the manufacturing Can be done at very low wages in other countries as opposed to having to do it in America and have to pay American workers good wages and benefits, also they don't want to deal with the regulation. The reality is they don't provide the jobs anymore the jobs are outsourced and that's the problem. These large corporations are not hurting for money they are not fighting dwindling profits, they are actually making more money than ever. Taxes are a minor issue for large corporations they have great tax attorneys and accountants that allow them to pay tax rates that you and me could only hope to pay. Corporations don't bring our manufacturing jobs back to the US because it cost pennies on the dollar to do it overseas. Wether you classify it as evil or smart business practice is irrelevant but either way its not good for Americas workforce.

Taxes play a role. I think Unions play a bigger role. You classify it as "good wages and benefits".......unfortunately the unions don't want good wages, they want outrageous wages and unsustainable benfits. The unions are destroying the workforce

[Dwinsgames]

Taxes play a role. I think Unions play a bigger role. You classify it as "good wages and benefits".......unfortunately the unions don't want good wages, they want outrageous wages and unsustainable benfits. The unions are destroying the workforce


pretty much ...

I used to support Unions back in the day but nothing is ever enough for them they are never satisfied they are blood thirsty Job killers nothing more than legalized mafia

[steeldawg]

Taxes play a role. I think Unions play a bigger role. You classify it as "good wages and benefits".......unfortunately the unions don't want good wages, they want outrageous wages and unsustainable benfits. The unions are destroying the workforce

Im not saying it doesn't play a role for business in general but for large corporations its a minor detail, Also taxes really have nothing to do with outsourced manufacturing jobs its more about wages and regulation. Unions are hard on business for sure, but my point is its not the cause of the bankruptcy because there are cities across the US that have unions, pensions , and benefits and are not filing for bankruptcy.

[steeldawg]

This is *absolutely* due to liberal policies. If it was merely a case of diminishing population and revenues, the city would've been able to downsize accordingly and pay their bills.
Setting aside the fact that the population and revenue shrunk, why did the bills *not* shrink? A: Pension deals they made to buy the public worker's union with no thought or care as to how they were going to pay for it. Liberal policy.
Looking at the fact that the population and revenue shrunk, why did that happen? Primarily the death of the auto industry. Already addressed above; liberal policy.
That city's government had been loaded with graft, waste and corruption for decades, and nobody cared enough to fix it before it was too late.
Liberal policies are all about free lunches, and this is the inevitable result of that, 'cuz there ain't no such thing.

Well bad deals and wasteful spending is not a liberal policy its simply bad management, if it was liberal policy then all cities with liberal representation would be going bankrupt. The unions and pensions added to the debt no doubt as they are a part of all cities expenditures but to say they caused the bankruptcy is not accurate. They are bankrupt because of a declining population and a declining economy.

[GoSlash27]

Well bad deals and wasteful spending is not a liberal policy its simply bad management, if it was liberal policy then all cities with liberal representation would be going bankrupt. The unions and pensions added to the debt no doubt as they are a part of all cities expenditures but to say they caused the bankruptcy is not accurate. They are bankrupt because of a declining population and a declining economy.

Saying they caused the bankruptcy is absolutely 100% accurate. Declining population and economy have absolutely nothing to do with it unless you've taken on liabilities that exceed your ability to sustain. A small town can maintain a budget just as well as a large one. Detroit is a city that hasn't attempted to maintain it's budget for decades.

[st33lersguy]

wasteful spending is not a liberal policy

Really??? Then explain why big-government liberal politicians are always trying to protect it and attack those that try and cut wasteful spending?


unions and pensions added to the debt no doubt as they are a part of all cities expenditures but to say they caused the bankruptcy is not accurate.

The pension system created by the unions were unsustainable and resulted in a whole lot of accumulation of debt.


They are bankrupt because of a declining population and a declining economy

Maybe the economy doesn't collapse in Detroit if the politicians tried fixing the problem instead of sticking with the same policies that were not working, then maybe people wouldn't have given up on the city and left it

[Count Steeler]

Hope and change. Hope and change. sigh.

[Hindes204]

Toast

[steeldawg]

Saying they caused the bankruptcy is absolutely 100% accurate. Declining population and economy have absolutely nothing to do with it unless you've taken on liabilities that exceed your ability to sustain. A small town can maintain a budget just as well as a large one. Detroit is a city that hasn't attempted to maintain it's budget for decades.

Detroit lost 48% of its manufacturing from 2000 and 2010 , also a 25% drop off in population tax base. There is not a pension plan or union bargaining agreement on this earth planned to handle a drop off like that. Detroit did not go from one of the richest cities in America to bankruptcy because of pension deals.

[Count Steeler]

Detroit lost 48% of its manufacturing from 2000 and 2010 , also a 25% drop off in population tax base. There is not a pension plan or union bargaining agreement on this earth planned to handle a drop off like that. Detroit did not go from one of the richest cities in America to bankruptcy because of pension deals.

Think mindset, not one specific union measure.

[Spike]

My favorite public employee is the President of the School Board in Detroit

http://media.mlive.com/news/detroit_impact/photo/otis-mathis-detroit-board-of-educationjpg-5443ae4100efd59a_large.jpg

He is illiterate.

http://www.theroot.com/views/detroit-school-leader-otis-mathis-cant-write


A sexual deviant that masturbates in front of women in official meetings.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100623/COL10/6230357/Sex-acts-by-Otis-Mathis-terrible-example-kids

The school board had to pay $650,000.00 to the woman who witnessed that.


For Democrats I guess that kind of behavior is a resume enhancer.

[GoSlash27]

Detroit lost 48% of its manufacturing from 2000 and 2010 , also a 25% drop off in population tax base. There is not a pension plan or union bargaining agreement on this earth planned to handle a drop off like that. Detroit did not go from one of the richest cities in America to bankruptcy because of pension deals.

Uhh... yeah they did.
Detroit wouldn't have been able to maintain those pensions even if they hadn't suffered a drop in population tax base.
These cadillac pension plans have been bankrupting cities all over the country, and you're acting like it's something new.
This is what happens when you kick the can down the road instead of addressing your financial problems.

[GoSlash27]

steeldawg's reasoning is akin to that of somebody who has lived their whole life beyond their means to the point where they're taking out new credit cards to service the minimum payments on their existing debt, then blaming their bankruptcy on a pay cut at work.

It works the same for cities as it does in your personal life; if you handle your finances responsibly and set aside savings, you don't go broke.

[fansince'76]

My favorite public employee is the President of the School Board in Detroit

http://media.mlive.com/news/detroit_impact/photo/otis-mathis-detroit-board-of-educationjpg-5443ae4100efd59a_large.jpg

He is illiterate.

http://www.theroot.com/views/detroit-school-leader-otis-mathis-cant-write


A sexual deviant that masturbates in front of women in official meetings.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100623/COL10/6230357/Sex-acts-by-Otis-Mathis-terrible-example-kids

The school board had to pay $650,000.00 to the woman who witnessed that.


For Democrats I guess that kind of behavior is a resume enhancer.

But he deserves to be the school board president because he's a "nice guy." :rolleyes:


"I'm a horrible writer. I know that," says Mathis, 56, a lifelong resident of southwest Detroit. His difficulties with language were spotted as early as fourth grade, when he was placed in special education classes. His college degree was held up for more than a decade because he repeatedly failed an English proficiency exam then required for graduation at Wayne State University.

In another city, these revelations might be grounds for disqualification. But Mathis is liked and defended by many of his peers, who cite his collegiality, lack of defensiveness and leadership as more important than his writing skills. Even Winfrey, his defeated rival for the presidency, declined to criticize his qualifications.

Read more: Does DPS leader's writing send wrong message? (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20100304/OPINION03/3040437/1132/sports0202/DPS-leader-s-bad-writing--Wrong-message)

Nobody's saying he has to be William Shakespeare, but shouldn't a school board president be able to at least form a coherent sentence when writing an official communication?


Here's another mass e-mail from Mathis, from Aug. 11, 2009:

Do DPS control the Foundation or outside group? If an outside group control the foundation, then what is DPS Board row with selection of is director? Our we mixing DPS and None DPS row's, and who is the watch dog?

That's more than embarrassing, it's inexcusable.

[steeldawg]

steeldawg's reasoning is akin to that of somebody who has lived their whole life beyond their means to the point where they're taking out new credit cards to service the minimum payments on their existing debt, then blaming their bankruptcy on a pay cut at work.

It works the same for cities as it does in your personal life; if you handle your finances responsibly and set aside savings, you don't go broke.

What is my reasoning? Your acting like im saying that pensions and benefits are not a factor which I clearly stated they contributed to the debt. Pensions and benefits make up about half of detroits debt but the other half they can not pay for either. If Detroit was still operating with a robust population and a flourishing auto industry they wouldn't be bankrupt but that's not the case and the reason they cant pay creditors is because they have no income no tax money. I don't care if Detroit eliminates all pensions and benefits without a growing economy and population Detroit will still go bankrupt.

[st33lersguy]

My favorite public employee is the President of the School Board in Detroit

http://media.mlive.com/news/detroit_impact/photo/otis-mathis-detroit-board-of-educationjpg-5443ae4100efd59a_large.jpg

He is illiterate.

http://www.theroot.com/views/detroit-school-leader-otis-mathis-cant-write


A sexual deviant that masturbates in front of women in official meetings.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100623/COL10/6230357/Sex-acts-by-Otis-Mathis-terrible-example-kids

The school board had to pay $650,000.00 to the woman who witnessed that.


For Democrats I guess that kind of behavior is a resume enhancer.


But he deserves to be the school board president because he's a "nice guy."

Big government liberal politicians have to be the most backward people on the face of the planet

[7SteelGal43]

How many of you are aware that Detroit, at one time, had the highest standard of living in the US, at a time when the US had the highest standard of living in the world ? How exactly did it get to where it is now ? I mean, I have my thoughts, but please, discuss.

[Spike]

How many of you are aware that Detroit, at one time, had the highest standard of living in the US, at a time when the US had the highest standard of living in the world ? How exactly did it get to where it is now ? I mean, I have my thoughts, but please, discuss.

I already told you

50 years of Democrat rule

http://www.fivefeetoffury.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/hiroshima-detroit.jpg.pagespeed.ce.F7UPG9H-IR.jpg

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu179/odin2009/LIB2_zps71f7cfe0.jpg

[Count Steeler]

How many of you are aware that Detroit, at one time, had the highest standard of living in the US, at a time when the US had the highest standard of living in the world ? How exactly did it get to where it is now ? I mean, I have my thoughts, but please, discuss.

Entitlement mindset. "They will take care of me". Well, the "they" dried up and there was no more to pass around.

[fansince'76]

How many of you are aware that Detroit, at one time, had the highest standard of living in the US, at a time when the US had the highest standard of living in the world ? How exactly did it get to where it is now ? I mean, I have my thoughts, but please, discuss.

Why, white racism is to blame of course... :rolleyes:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OaCA-pOm9o

[GoSlash27]

http://www.detroitmi.gov/News/tabid/3196/ctl/ReadDefault/mid/4561/ArticleId/196/Default.aspx

Ironic that just half a year Detroit was actually *bragging* about how they were shutting down 20 businesses a week.

[Seven]

Ya know... Romney was going to let Detroit go bankrupt. Thank god that didn't happen.