Jonathan Dwyer on a Mission to go from Trade Bait to Pittsburgh Steelers Starting RB

[Count Steeler]

When the Pittsburgh Steelers drafted Michigan State running back Le’Veon Bell in the second round of the 2013 NFL Draft it said a lot about the players on the roster. The Steelers clearly aren’t sold on Isaac Redman or Jonathan Dwyer being their long-term starting running back; so much so, in fact, that they spent a second round pick on a running back.

That was, of course, never said in words by the Steelers front office, but their actions, as they say, speak louder than words. And those actions have Dwyer and Redman working hard to show that the organization, and most everyone else for that matter, underestimated them.

Redman is said to be 10-15 pounds lighter than the end of last season and is working on increasing his speed. His goal is to be the Steelers starting running back and in Todd Haley’s offense that means a mix of speed and power as well as the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield.

“I was disappointed individually, struggling with injuries,” Redman said about his 2012 season. “We had our spurts. We had a couple of games where we looked great and a couple where we looked awful. We need to be more consistent.”


full story @ http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/jonathan_dwyer_on_a_mission_to_go_from_trade_bait_ to_pittsburgh_steelers_starting_running_back/13983532

Dwyer @JDwyer27 excited for camp man to prove everyone wrong

[Texasteel]

Couldn't read the whole article, but it seems to me that Jonathan should have started his mission earlier, by passing up a few more Burger Kings.

[stlrtruck]

Physically I believe Dwyer has the ability to be a starter in Haley's system, and for now Bell could spell him throughout the game. However, I'm not sure if he can handle the mentality of being a starter. He had some issues last season that costs us a few games. I'd like to see him develop and at least push for a starting position. He reminds me a bit of Bettis, but watching him it appears as if he's missing something within to be 'that' back.

[GBMelBlount]

Couldn't read the whole article, but it seems to me that Jonathan should have started his mission earlier, by passing up a few more Burger Kings.

Agreed.

If he suffered from a "Burger Deficit Disorder" we might not even be having this discussion.

[Shoes]

Couldn't read the whole article, but it seems to me that Jonathan should have started his mission earlier, by passing up a few more Burger Kings.

What TX said!

[Devilsdancefloor]

i like him, but this might be a little to late for him he had some great games last year, then started taking himself out of the game cause he was tired and most of those the drive staled. i hope he does just come in a blow our socks off!

[steeldawg]

Once we see Le'veon Bell running in that zone blocking scheme we wont even remember who Dwyer is. Bell is a beast there really is no need for dwyer, and for a change of pace we have howling.

[Seven]

No reason for it to be "too late". If he can change his habits I have no doubt he'll earn the job. Problem is, at this point I doubt he can change his habits. We'll see. It's the same story with Woodley. I'm trying to believe in these guys.

[Steeltreal]

If the 3 had odds to who emerged the starter Im guessing it would look something like
Redman - Even
Bell - 3-1
Dwyer - 5/2

[zulater]

No reason for it to be "too late". If he can change his habits I have no doubt he'll earn the job. Problem is, at this point I doubt he can change his habits. We'll see. It's the same story with Woodley. I'm trying to believe in these guys.

How can you compare Woodley to Dwyer? Woodley's had one bad year in 5 NFL seasons. He was playing at All Pro level in 2011 prior to blowing out his hamstring. As opposed to Dwyer who has had had a few good games and that"s it.

[GBMelBlount]

They both arguably had disappointing seasons last year due to being overweight and lazy and questions if this year will be any different.

[zulater]

They both arguably had disappointing seasons last year due to being overweight and lazy and questions if this year will be any different.

I would say they inarguably had poor seasons last year. But I honestly don't know that Woodley was out of shape as many claim. I've heard and believe that Woodley bulked up too much last year and was muscle bound and slow because of it. Rather than being lazy he tried to be James Harrison instead of staying true to his body type and abilities. So I think he'll have a huge rebound season and put up double digit sacks before December is out.

[GBMelBlount]

I would say they inarguably had poor seasons last year. But I honestly don't know that Woodley was out of shape as many claim. I've heard and believe that Woodley bulked up too much last year and was muscle bound and slow because of it. Rather than being lazy he tried to be James Harrison instead of staying true to his body type and abilities. So I think he'll have a huge rebound season and put up double digit sacks before December is out.

That is a valid point.

I remember my junoir year in high school I was all county in soccer and even tied the school record for gaols in a game (4)...however between junior and senior year I pumped a lot of iron put on about 15 lbs....I was still good but my production dropeed. I was not as quick or fast as I was 15 lbs lighter plus I did not work my legs at all.

So I agree, and part of the problem may also be the types of workouts he is doing.

[zulater]

That is a valid point.

I remember my junoir year in high school I was all county in soccer and even tied the school record for gaols in a game (4)...however between junior and senior year I pumped a lot of iron put on about 15 lbs....I was still good but my production dropeed. I was not as quick or fast as I was 15 lbs lighter plus I did not work my legs at all.

So I agree, and part of the problem may also be the types of workouts he is doing.

I think he's become aware of this and has worked to get to the place he was before. If he can get back to being the player he was in the first 7 games of 2011 ( before he blew out his hammy against the Patriots) then we'll have a helluva LOLB. Which would really aid in the development of Jarvis Jones.

[GBMelBlount]

I think he's become aware of this and has worked to get to the place he was before. If he can get back to being the player he was in the first 7 games of 2011 ( before he blew out his hammy against the Patriots) then we'll have a helluva LOLB. Which would really aid in the development of Jarvis Jones.

I don't want to be overly dramatic but this could be a pivotal point in Woodley's career.

After 1 1/2 consecutive years hampered by injuries if he is not injury free most (if not all) of the season he may have already seen his best days.

[blackngldblood]

I think he's become aware of this and has worked to get to the place he was before. If he can get back to being the player he was in the first 7 games of 2011 ( before he blew out his hammy against the Patriots) then we'll have a helluva LOLB. Which would really aid in the development of Jarvis Jones.

I just recently re-watched the patriots/Steelers game from 2011, and Wood was eating brady for dinner that night before he blew the tire out. If we get him back in pre hammy blown out condition, he is gonna feast this season, cause the running sentiment is he is a fat lazy piece of shit. I expect him to come in blazing under the radar.

[GBMelBlount]

I just recently re-watched the patriots/Steelers game from 2011, and Wood was eating brady for dinner that night before he blew the tire out. If we get him back in pre hammy blown out condition, he is gonna feast this season, cause the running sentiment is he is a 'fat lazy piece of shit'. I expect him to come in blazing under the radar.

I hope he makes me buffet on my words. :chuckle:

[Craic]

I don't want to be overly dramatic but this could be a pivotal point in Woodley's career.

After 1 1/2 consecutive years hampered by injuries if he is not injury free most (if not all) of the season he may have already seen his best days.

Of all the sentiment on this and other sites about Woodley, this statement is probably the most down-to-earth and unbiased I've yet heard, and you're dead-on right, IMO.

[Steeldude]

Once we see Le'veon Bell running in that zone blocking scheme we wont even remember who Dwyer is. Bell is a beast there really is no need for dwyer, and for a change of pace we have howling.

What has he done to deserve to start? That's the same question you asked for Dwyer.

Bell has yet to carry the ball in the NFL. Let's see what he can do before claiming him to be the savior of the running game. The O-line still needs to consistently control the scrimmage.

[steeldawg]

What has he done to deserve to start? That's the same question you asked for Dwyer.

Bell has yet to carry the ball in the NFL. Let's see what he can do before claiming him to be the savior of the running game. The O-line still needs to consistently control the scrimmage.

He was 2nd round draft pick and we have dwyer and redman does this question really have to be asked?Also he ran the zone blocking scheme in college, do you really think its just a coincidence we are implementing the zone blocking scheme. Hes more talented than any back we have on the roster, and yes dwyer still has not done anything to show he can start in this league that's why we have this thread.

[Count Steeler]

Bell is a number 1 draft pick and we have redman and dwyer does this question really have to be asked? Also he ran the zone blocking scheme in college, do you really think its just a coincidence we are implementing the zone blocking scheme. Hes more talented than any back we have on the roster, and yes dwyer still has not done anything to show he can start in this league that's why we have this thread.

Bell is a 2nd round pick. TC is there for a reason. Hope the coaches give more credence to on field performance instead of reputation. McLendon should have played a lot more than he did last year. The RB situation was a mess because of all the injuries. Earn the spot on the field.

[steeldawg]

Bell is a 2nd round pick. TC is there for a reason. Hope the coaches give more credence to on field performance instead of reputation. McLendon should have played a lot more than he did last year. The RB situation was a mess because of all the injuries. Earn the spot on the field.

Ya I corrected it I was reading something else and typing at the same time.

[steeldawg]

Bell is a 2nd round pick. TC is there for a reason. Hope the coaches give more credence to on field performance instead of reputation. McLendon should have played a lot more than he did last year. The RB situation was a mess because of all the injuries. Earn the spot on the field.

If dwyer was a starting caliber running back there is no way we where going to spend a 2nd round pick on Bell. Bell is going to start this season because redman and dwyer lack the talent to be consistent starters.

[Dwinsgames]

Dwyer has the skill set to be a feature back in this league , what he lacks is the maturity to be a consistent performer , how much he has matured as a person and player will IMO be the primary factor of whom gets the start ...if Dwyer has matured it will be an uphill battle for Bell ( not a battle he can not win but a battle none the less and the victor should be determined on the field in TC and Pre season based on first team reps not mop up duty performances vs guys who will be flipping burgers come October )

[Texasteel]

I was a big fan of Dwyer when he was in school. Dwyer does have the talent to play in this league, even start, talent was never the question. Has he, or can he, develop the mental toughness, and can he become tough enough to play a complete season. Having Bell may help him. If Bell is what we hope he is, this could take some of the pressure off him. The weight problem was a big concern for me. It make me question if he will do what he needs to all the time, not just part of the time.

[Count Steeler]

If dwyer was a starting caliber running back there is no way we where going to spend a 2nd round pick on Bell. Bell is going to start this season because redman and dwyer lack the talent to be consistent starters.

Draft standing has little to do with whether Steelers start or not. Hood and Heyward are still not "starters". If he performs he should play.

[Steeldude]

He was 2nd round draft pick and we have dwyer and redman does this question really have to be asked?Also he ran the zone blocking scheme in college, do you really think its just a coincidence we are implementing the zone blocking scheme. Hes more talented than any back we have on the roster, and yes dwyer still has not done anything to show he can start in this league that's why we have this thread.

That doesn't mean he deserves a chance to start. I asked what has he done, not what the Steeler have done. This is the same question you ask of other players you dislike for personal reasons.

Bell hasn't played a down. I couldn't tell you if he is more talented based of his college games. He wasn't that impressive in college. He runs too upright and his vision is not that good. Remember Mendenhall? He was a bust.

It all depends on the O-line. Until they can consistently open holes it does not matter who the RB is

That being said, I don't care who starts just as long as they get the job done.

[Craic]

That doesn't mean he deserves a chance to start. I asked what has he done, not what the Steeler have done. This is the same question you ask of other players you dislike for personal reasons.

Bell hasn't played a down. I couldn't tell you if he is more talented based of his college games. He wasn't that impressive in college. He runs too upright and his vision is not that good. Remember Mendenhall? He was a bust.

It all depends on the O-line. Until they can consistently open holes it does not matter who the RB is

That being said, I don't care who starts just as long as they get the job done.

A bit of an overstatement, no?

He rushed for 928 yards (21st) in 2011, and 9 TDs (tied for 10th)
He rushed for 1273 yards (7th) in 2010, and 13 TDs (2nd)
He rushed for 1108 yards (14th) in 2009 and 7 TDs (tied for 16th) (first year starting)

2009 was our worst year for an O line. 2010 and '11 wasn't much better. He wasn't anything to write home about, but neither was he a "bust." Kendrell Bell was a bust. Troy Edwards was a bust. Tim Worley was a bust. So was Tom Rickets and Huey Richardson.

I think we need to readjust our thinking on what a "bust" is, because it gets thrown around a lot, and really doesn't fit most of the time. Just because a guy that is drafted in the first round doesn't pan out long term doesn't mean he's a bust.

[Steeldude]

A bit of an overstatement, no?

He rushed for 928 yards (21st) in 2011, and 9 TDs (tied for 10th)
He rushed for 1273 yards (7th) in 2010, and 13 TDs (2nd)
He rushed for 1108 yards (14th) in 2009 and 7 TDs (tied for 16th) (first year starting)

2009 was our worst year for an O line. 2010 and '11 wasn't much better. He wasn't anything to write home about, but neither was he a "bust." Kendrell Bell was a bust. Troy Edwards was a bust. Tim Worley was a bust. So was Tom Rickets and Huey Richardson.

I think we need to readjust our thinking on what a "bust" is, because it gets thrown around a lot, and really doesn't fit most of the time. Just because a guy that is drafted in the first round doesn't pan out long term doesn't mean he's a bust.

Not in my opinion, he was a first round pick who put up average numbers : ) I agree about the O-line, but from what I saw from Mendenhall was a soft RB with sub-par attitude. Although, he did toughen up as time went on.

Ok, maybe bust is a tad too strong. How about a bigger than average disappointment? : )

[steeldawg]

That doesn't mean he deserves a chance to start. I asked what has he done, not what the Steeler have done. This is the same question you ask of other players you dislike for personal reasons.

Bell hasn't played a down. I couldn't tell you if he is more talented based of his college games. He wasn't that impressive in college. He runs too upright and his vision is not that good. Remember Mendenhall? He was a bust.

It all depends on the O-line. Until they can consistently open holes it does not matter who the RB is

That being said, I don't care who starts just as long as they get the job done.

Bell doesn't have to do anything as of right now, because as of right now he is the most talented back on our roster. Yes I remember mendenhall who I thought was very solid despite some major injuries, I take mendenhall over dwyer every single time. Bell will start the season as our running back you can bank on that, we didn't draft him in the second round and switch to a zone blocking scheme because we thought he would be a nice back up fpr jonathan dwyer!

[Craic]

Not in my opinion, he was a first round pick who put up average numbers : ) I agree about the O-line, but from what I saw from Mendenhall was a soft RB with sub-par attitude. Although, he did toughen up as time went on.

Ok, maybe bust is a tad too strong. How about a bigger than average disappointment? : )

LOL. The problem however, is that when you compare him to other RBs that were drafted first round around him, he actually rates right in the same group. So, I'd change that to say that the lower half of that entire 1st round draft class was a bigger than average disappointment, and among them, he was average.

You know, with that kind of verbal Judo, maybe I should've been a lawyer?

[Craic]

Bell doesn't have to do anything as of right now, because as of right now he is the most talented back on our roster. Yes I remember mendenhall who I thought was very solid despite some major injuries, I take mendenhall over dwyer every single time. Bell will start the season as our running back you can bank on that, we didn't draft him in the second round and switch to a zone blocking scheme because we thought he would be a nice back up fpr jonathan dwyer!

Sorry, but you're wrong here. Bell has to do everything, because he's an unproven, untested commodity. With Dwyer and Redman we know what we have. We know their strengths and Weaknesses. We know that Redman is a workhorse and will keep his legs churning, but we'll seldom get more than three of four yards out of him per run because he's a no-cut guy. Find the hold and crash it. Dwyer we know has the ability to hit hard and put people on their rear-end. He also has the ability to make a couple cuts and break longer runs, but he's not a guy that can turn nothing into something. He can turn a little into quite a bit more if he gets a good lick on a guy, however.

We know none of that about Bell and as such, Bell should come into this camp penciled in the fourth spot. If he's as good as you think, then he'll easily blow right through the camp fodder and open the eyes of the coaches, making them play him again bigger and better players . . . those that will remain on the 53 man roster, and if he still does well, then those who are starting. But starting him in that position is foolish both for Bell, as he has to learn how to run, block, etc., in the bigger, faster NFL where everything is a lot more technical, and our other RBs that HAVE been there and have proved that they can at least play and spot start, need to get ready for the first game.

[steeldawg]

Sorry, but you're wrong here. Bell has to do everything, because he's an unproven, untested commodity. With Dwyer and Redman we know what we have. We know their strengths and Weaknesses. We know that Redman is a workhorse and will keep his legs churning, but we'll seldom get more than three of four yards out of him per run because he's a no-cut guy. Find the hold and crash it. Dwyer we know has the ability to hit hard and put people on their rear-end. He also has the ability to make a couple cuts and break longer runs, but he's not a guy that can turn nothing into something. He can turn a little into quite a bit more if he gets a good lick on a guy, however.

We know none of that about Bell and as such, Bell should come into this camp penciled in the fourth spot. If he's as good as you think, then he'll easily blow right through the camp fodder and open the eyes of the coaches, making them play him again bigger and better players . . . those that will remain on the 53 man roster, and if he still does well, then those who are starting. But starting him in that position is foolish both for Bell, as he has to learn how to run, block, etc., in the bigger, faster NFL where everything is a lot more technical, and our other RBs that HAVE been there and have proved that they can at least play and spot start, need to get ready for the first game.

He will blow right through camp, this kid is going to open everyone's eyes and he will be the starter to open the season I will guarantee it. Im not saying he doesn't physically have to do anything until the season starts, what im saying is his talent compared to the talent on our depth chart easily puts him in position to start without even taking a snap yet. Dwyer is only 23 and the steelers were trying to trade him, doesn't give me a lot of confidence that he's the guy they want toting the rock. We got the steal of the draft in the second round with this kid and if our O-line can master the zone blocking run scheme you will see our running game back in a big way this season.

[Psycho Ward 86]

LOL. The problem however, is that when you compare him to other RBs that were drafted first round around him, he actually rates right in the same group. So, I'd change that to say that the lower half of that entire 1st round draft class was a bigger than average disappointment, and among them, he was average.

You know, with that kind of verbal Judo, maybe I should've been a lawyer?

ah so sucking at drafting in concert with everybody else makes it better!

fuck that. We arent everyone else. We're the pittsburgh steelers and we strive for excellence. Mendenhall was a so so back for us thats fortunate to still be so young and have a chance to live up to his draft status.

[Craic]

He will blow right through camp, this kid is going to open everyone's eyes and he will be the starter to open the season I will guarantee it. Im not saying he doesn't physically have to do anything until the season starts, what im saying is his talent compared to the talent on our depth chart easily puts him in position to start without even taking a snap yet. Dwyer is only 23 and the steelers were trying to trade him, doesn't give me a lot of confidence that he's the guy they want toting the rock. We got the steal of the draft in the second round with this kid and if our O-line can master the zone blocking run scheme you will see our running game back in a big way this season.

And if he does so, I'll be just as happy as everyone else. My point however is that he has to earn that position. It cannot be given to him in camp and there's no way he should enter camp in the number 1 RB position.

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ah so sucking at drafting in concert with everybody else makes it better!

fuck that. We arent everyone else. We're the pittsburgh steelers and we strive for excellence. Mendenhall was a so so back for us thats fortunate to still be so young and have a chance to live up to his draft status.

Sigh.

What does this have to do with the definition of a "bust?" You're arguing about things that make no sense concerning my conversation with Steeldude on what a "bust" is compared to just another RB that didn't make it.

[KeiselPower99]

I don't care if its Bell Dwyer or Redman. All I care about is someone gaining yards and the offense scoring touchdowns not field goals this year.

[steeldawg]

And if he does so, I'll be just as happy as everyone else. My point however is that he has to earn that position. It cannot be given to him in camp and there's no way he should enter camp in the number 1 RB position.

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Sigh.

What does this have to do with the definition of a "bust?" You're arguing about things that make no sense concerning my conversation with Steeldude on what a "bust" is compared to just another RB that didn't make it.

Oh Im not concerned where on the depth chart he enters camp but when it comes time for real football he will be starting, we drafted this guy in the second round to start not to back up dwyer. All im saying is once we see this kid running the ball especially in the zone blocking scheme we are going to forget all about dwyer.

[Count Steeler]

Is this general fail at the RB position what we have to look forward to at QB once Roethlisberger hangs them up?

Justs show you how much of a crap shoot the draft is. It is the unmeasurables that make the difference. How do you measure heart? Mendy didn't have it. He had the talent, but not the drive to succeed. Dwyer shows flashes of competency, yet he can't get in shape or keep his weight in check. Redman is an adequate "change up" back, but injuries last year hampered his chance at being the premier back. Let's hope Bell lives up to his draft projections.

[Spike]

Offenses don't win games these days by running the ball these days...it's a passing league


so I see really only 2 main questions...


Can the defense generate a pass rush?

Can the new OL and it's OT's protect Ben?

[Nadroj 20]

Oh Im not concerned where on the depth chart he enters camp but when it comes time for real football he will be starting, we drafted this guy in the second round to start not to back up dwyer. All im saying is once we see this kid running the ball especially in the zone blocking scheme we are going to forget all about dwyer.

Not if Dwyer proves to be the better option in camp. Everyone has to earn their playing time. Even if we drafted Bell with the thought of him becoming our starter we still have to wait and see how it plays out.

I would love to see Bell be the back, but we wil see.

[steeldawg]

Not if Dwyer proves to be the better option in camp. Everyone has to earn their playing time. Even if we drafted Bell with the thought of him becoming our starter we still have to wait and see how it plays out.

I would love to see Bell be the back, but we wil see.

Dwyer is clearly not the guy for the steelers, they wanted to trade him in the offseason they switched the running game scheme and drafted a guy who runs that scheme in the second round. Bell was clearly taken to be the guy and he will come out of camp the starter.

[Nadroj 20]

Dwyer is clearly not the guy for the steelers, they wanted to trade him in the offseason they switched the running game scheme and drafted a guy who runs that scheme in the second round. Bell was clearly taken to be the guy and he will come out of camp the starter.

Still has to earn it. I don't care if some guy we never even heard of comes on and does better. Maybe Redman has an great TC? All I'm saying is he has to prove he deserves it before he gets it and like I said I hope that is the case. I do see a lot of potential from him.

[Psycho Ward 86]

And if he does so, I'll be just as happy as everyone else. My point however is that he has to earn that position. It cannot be given to him in camp and there's no way he should enter camp in the number 1 RB position.

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Sigh.

What does this have to do with the definition of a "bust?" You're arguing about things that make no sense concerning my conversation with Steeldude on what a "bust" is compared to just another RB that didn't make it.

well to clarify, i dont think mendenhall can be considered a bust (yet), but he's getting very close. I was just pointing out how ludicrous it seems to defend mendenhall's underperformance by highlighting other failed 1st round RB's from that draft

[Dwinsgames]

its amusing to me that a team and a bunch of draftniks rate a player as a first round talent and they get drafted as such and do not perform as anticipated and suddenly the Player is labeled a bust , the reality of it is should not the scouts and draftniks be considered the bust after all they are the ones who failed to properly evaluate the players ability ..... Mendenhall did NOTHING as a pro that the warning signs where not already abundantly clear ... he was soft , it was clear he was soft before being drafted , football was not his top priority in life he openly stated that before being drafted , he came from a program that was not conducive of what would be asked of him as a pro ...everyone knew that going in ... yet they still graded him out as a first round talent ... so who failed Mendenhall or the Evaluator's ??

[fansince'76]

its amusing to me that a team and a bunch of draftniks rate a player as a first round talent and they get drafted as such and do not perform as anticipated and suddenly the Player is labeled a bust , the reality of it is should not the scouts and draftniks be considered the bust after all they are the ones who failed to properly evaluate the players ability ..... Mendenhall did NOTHING as a pro that the warning signs where not already abundantly clear ... he was soft , it was clear he was soft before being drafted , football was not his top priority in life he openly stated that before being drafted , he came from a program that was not conducive of what would be asked of him as a pro ...everyone knew that going in ... yet they still graded him out as a first round talent ... so who failed Mendenhall or the Evaluator's ??

They can take as many "measurables" and try to make the process as "scientific" as they'd like, but at the end of the day, the NFL Draft is still largely a crapshoot. That being said, I'm not about to dump on the FO for a bad draft like 2008 here and there when they've been one of the better drafting teams in the league overall for quite a few years now. It's also why I tend to really get annoyed with all the armchair GMs who refuse to keep things in perspective and completely blast the FO over a draft after the fact when they have the convenience of operating with 20/20 hindsight.

[steeldawg]

Still has to earn it. I don't care if some guy we never even heard of comes on and does better. Maybe Redman has an great TC? All I'm saying is he has to prove he deserves it before he gets it and like I said I hope that is the case. I do see a lot of potential from him.

yes he does but he doesn't have to do anything spectacular to earn it. Dwyer is only 23, if the steelers thought he could be the starter of the future they wouldn't of taken a rb in the 2nd round and they wouldn't of tried to trade him. Maybe redman does have a great camp but he's still not going to start unless bell suffers an injury or doesn't show up at all. We needed to upgrade our running back position and that's exactly what we did and we are not going to stick that upgrade on the bench.

[Dwinsgames]

They can take as many "measurables" and try to make the process as "scientific" as they'd like, but at the end of the day, the NFL Draft is still largely a crapshoot. That being said, I'm not about to dump on the FO for a bad draft like 2008 here and there when they've been one of the better drafting teams in the league overall for quite a few years now. It's also why I tend to really get annoyed with all the armchair GMs who refuse to keep things in perspective and completely blast the FO over a draft after the fact when they have the convenience of operating with 20/20 hindsight.

trust me I am not being Mendenhall specific on the " bust label " ( I was never a fan of him however ) but its any player that fails to meet expectations that gets the label attached to him when they end up being the player that the signs point to them being before they ever get drafted ....

Many players are over drafted with the expectation of being able to " fix" their problems once they become pro but that is a 50-50 proposition at best , I have always felt you are getting the player you draft considering they have played for the most part ( not all of them but most of them ) 10-15 years ...some things can be fixed while others can not ... soft is soft , toughness like speed is almost impossible to teach and having expectations to do so is IMO an unreasonable expectation ...


for me it is like going to the grocery store ( the draft ) and buying a bag of Apples and expecting to take them home and turn them into Oranges its not a reasonable expectation .....

[Dwinsgames]

we need to limit the term Busts for those who will be eventually enshrined in Canton

[Pristas]

we need to limit the term Busts for those who will be eventually enshrined in Canton

And Limas Sweed.

[Master Blaster]

They both failed, but Mendenhall failed the most, especially with a first round grade. First and foremost, he failed to be honest with himself. As a consequence, he failed to be honest in the interview portion of his evaluation. Keep in mind that he was disciplined, twice, by coach Tomlin for not putting in the required effort to better himself both physically and mentally. Also keep in mind that, on paper, Kevin Colbert was lauded for having a very good draft in 2008, especially since, according to the experts and draft gurus, he hit a home run with the selections of Mendenhall and Limas Sweed. Looking back on the 2008 draft Colbert and the sports media whiffed, big time.

The following is the list of players in that draft:


1 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/1.html)
23 (23)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/football/2008/draft/tracker/images/video_icon.gif Rashard Mendenhall (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/42572.html)
RB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/rb.html)
Illinois (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/49.html)


2 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/2.html)
22 (53)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/football/2008/draft/tracker/images/video_icon.gif Limas Sweed (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/5029.html)
WR (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/wr.html)
Texas (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/90.html)


3 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/3.html)
25 (88)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/football/2008/draft/tracker/images/video_icon.gif Bruce Davis (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/19652.html)
OLB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/olb.html)
UCLA (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/372.html)


4 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/4.html)
31 (130)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/football/2008/draft/tracker/images/video_icon.gif Tony Hills (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/5025.html)
T (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/t.html)
Texas (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/90.html)


5 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/5.html)
21 (156)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/football/2008/draft/tracker/images/video_icon.gif Dennis Dixon (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/4752.html)
QB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/qb.html)
Oregon (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/73.html)


6 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/6.html)
22 (188)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/football/2008/draft/tracker/images/video_icon.gif Mike Humpal (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/5267.html)
OLB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/olb.html)
Iowa (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/48.html)


6 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/6.html)
28 (194)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/misc/blank_pixel.gif Ryan Mundy (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/66754.html)
S (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/s.html)
West Virginia (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/362.html)



As everyone can see, the 2008 draft turned out to be one of Kevin Colbert's worst drafts while with the Steelers. Not one player from that draft is still on the team.

[Dwinsgames]

They both failed, but Mendenhall failed the most, especially with a first round grade. First and foremost, he failed to be honest with himself. As a consequence, he failed to be honest in the interview portion of his evaluation. Keep in mind that he was disciplined, twice, by coach Tomlin for not putting in the required effort to better himself both physically and mentally. Also keep in mind that, on paper, Kevin Colbert was lauded for having a very good draft in 2008, especially since, according to the experts and draft gurus, he hit a home run with the selections of Mendenhall and Limas Sweed. Looking back on the 2008 draft Colbert and the sports media whiffed, big time.

The following is the list of players in that draft:


1 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/1.html)
23 (23)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/football/2008/draft/tracker/images/video_icon.gif Rashard Mendenhall (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/42572.html)
RB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/rb.html)
Illinois (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/49.html)


2 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/2.html)
22 (53)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/football/2008/draft/tracker/images/video_icon.gif Limas Sweed (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/5029.html)
WR (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/wr.html)
Texas (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/90.html)


3 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/3.html)
25 (88)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/football/2008/draft/tracker/images/video_icon.gif Bruce Davis (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/19652.html)
OLB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/olb.html)
UCLA (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/372.html)


4 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/4.html)
31 (130)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/football/2008/draft/tracker/images/video_icon.gif Tony Hills (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/5025.html)
T (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/t.html)
Texas (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/90.html)


5 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/5.html)
21 (156)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/football/2008/draft/tracker/images/video_icon.gif Dennis Dixon (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/4752.html)
QB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/qb.html)
Oregon (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/73.html)


6 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/6.html)
22 (188)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/football/2008/draft/tracker/images/video_icon.gif Mike Humpal (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/5267.html)
OLB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/olb.html)
Iowa (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/48.html)


6 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_round/6.html)
28 (194)
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/misc/blank_pixel.gif Ryan Mundy (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/66754.html)
S (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_position/s.html)
West Virginia (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/breakdowns/by_school/362.html)



As everyone can see, the 2008 draft turned out to be one of Kevin Colbert's worst drafts while with the Steelers. Not one player from that draft is still on the team.

holly shit , I seen the name and didnt believe it !

welcome bro I think you will like it here once you get everyone's vibe .....

[Pristas]

holly shit , I seen the name and didnt believe it !

welcome bro I think you will like it here once you get everyone's vibe .....


Exactly. There are those who can appreciate the two decent seasons Mendy gave us before losing his mind. Sweed holds a special place in Steeler Universe's heart. Disappointment only begins to describe how we feel. Had that draft worked to our favor we would have probably had another two Lobardis. As such, beyond that draft, the Steelers began the rebuilding process.

Think about what could have been had the first four picks worked out as regular starters. Not Pro-Bowlers, but every-game starters like a Larry Foote. There would have been stability, the team wouldn't have had the steep drop off in talent. We wouldn't be drafting for need as much. It's amazing how the shift of talent pivoted on that 2008 draft class. I'll bet Childi could write a good article articulating this.

[Chidi29]

Exactly. There are those who can appreciate the two decent seasons Mendy gave us before losing his mind. Sweed holds a special place in Steeler Universe's heart. Disappointment only begins to describe how we feel. Had that draft worked to our favor we would have probably had another two Lobardis. As such, beyond that draft, the Steelers began the rebuilding process.

Think about what could have been had the first four picks worked out as regular starters. Not Pro-Bowlers, but every-game starters like a Larry Foote. There would have been stability, the team wouldn't have had the steep drop off in talent. We wouldn't be drafting for need as much. It's amazing how the shift of talent pivoted on that 2008 draft class. I'll bet Childi could write a good article articulating this.

I mean, the "What if" game could be played in countless scenario. Unfortunately for us, we got bit really bad. I still defend it was a great draft. Mendenhall seemed like a no-brainer at the time and we were all elated that Sweed fell to us in the second when no WRs were taken in the first round and Donnie Avery was the first off the board. Hills had tremendous upside, too. So while the most important part, the on-field aspect, went down in flames, I can't really get mad at the FO. I loved it then just as much as they did.

But, it's been written countless times of how poor this team has drafted the last 5-6 years. We're labeled as a team with an eye for talent but that's about as accurate as saying we still play "Steeler football" of three yards and a cloud of dust. Colbert/Tomlin need to step it up in April. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone to deny that.

[KeiselPower99]

SWEEEEEEEEEED!!!!

[Dwinsgames]

Not sure why so many assume Dwyer can not run in a ZBS as well as any other back on the roster , he has good vision and quick feet and the ZBS is pretty much what they did at GT when he was there with the undersized linemen they had , granted its not the same as what we will be running but its based on the same principles ...

that is not saying he will win the job but I believe it suits him as well as anyone else on the roster , and trust me I hope Bell wins the job but to say Dwyer is incapable or at a disadvantage based on the scheme I think is just fundamentally incorrect , if you say he wont win the job based on talent level you might have a better argument but until they put the pads on and compete we simply do not know for sure ....

Dwyer was pretty impressive as a collegiate too and that is all we have to base Bells ability on at this point

Dwyer http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jonathan-dwyer-1.html

Bell http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/leveon-bell-1.html

[steeldawg]

Not sure why so many assume Dwyer can not run in a ZBS as well as any other back on the roster , he has good vision and quick feet and the ZBS is pretty much what they did at GT when he was there with the undersized linemen they had , granted its not the same as what we will be running but its based on the same principles ...

that is not saying he will win the job but I believe it suits him as well as anyone else on the roster , and trust me I hope Bell wins the job but to say Dwyer is incapable or at a disadvantage based on the scheme I think is just fundamentally incorrect , if you say he wont win the job based on talent level you might have a better argument but until they put the pads on and compete we simply do not know for sure ....

Dwyer was pretty impressive as a collegiate too and that is all we have to base Bells ability on at this point

Dwyer http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jonathan-dwyer-1.html

Bell http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/leveon-bell-1.html

Jonathan dwyer played the full back position at georgia tech and ran a lot of draws and triple option plays. Also the steelers obviously don't think hes the guy for the scheme because they drafted bell who ran a true zone blocking scheme is a better pass protector, pass catcher, and better tackle breaker.

[Chidi29]

What steeldawg said.

Check out this highlight video of Dwyers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87oQfYptdJM

I only watched the first half but it's all option offense. Triple option means you're getting midline and veer. Lot of backside guard pulling, too. Don't see any inside/outside zone.

[Dwinsgames]

Jonathan dwyer played the full back position at georgia tech and ran a lot of draws and triple option plays. Also the steelers obviously don't think hes the guy for the scheme because they drafted bell who ran a true zone blocking scheme is a better pass protector, pass catcher, and better tackle breaker.


my bullshit detector just went off .......

the bold is without question bullshit .....

while I am a Bell fan he has yet to accomplish anything at this level all the while Dwyer has proven to be one of the leagues BEST pass protectors at the RB pos and it is documented ....

as for pass catchers , again I call bullshit neither have caught enough balls to be considered a premier receiving threat , Granted Bell had more catches as a collegiate but GT barely threw the ball so apples to oranges comparison but a stat you should be looking at is Bell averaged 6.8 YPCatch at MS , Dwyer on the flip side averaged 17.5 YPCatch , but again they have less than 100 college career catches combined so hardly a solid sample ....


Dwyer also had more TDs with nearly 200 less touches .....

again I am a fan of Bell but for gods sakes lets not anoint him as the next coming until he proves worthy of such anointing ....... I expect him to win the starting job but I do not think it will be by a landslide

[steeldawg]

my bullshit detector just went off .......

the bold is without question bullshit .....

while I am a Bell fan he has yet to accomplish anything at this level all the while Dwyer has proven to be one of the leagues BEST pass protectors at the RB pos and it is documented ....

as for pass catchers , again I call bullshit neither have caught enough balls to be considered a premier receiving threat , Granted Bell had more catches as a collegiate but GT barely threw the ball so apples to oranges comparison but a stat you should be looking at is Bell averaged 6.8 YPCatch at MS , Dwyer on the flip side averaged 17.5 YPCatch , but again they have less than 100 college career catches combined so hardly a solid sample ....


Dwyer also had more TDs with nearly 200 less touches .....

again I am a fan of Bell but for gods sakes lets not anoint him as the next coming until he proves worthy of such anointing ....... I expect him to win the starting job but I do not think it will be by a landslide

right now hes a better blocker but you where comparing them coming out of college and two of bells attractive traits was his ability to catch and pass protect, so according to your comparison of them coming out of college bell is a better pass protector better at catching the ball and he ran the zone blocking scheme. And yes it will be a landslide and dwyer will be lucky if hes still on the team at the end of camp.

[Dwinsgames]

right now hes a better blocker but you where comparing them coming out of college and two of bells attractive traits was his ability to catch and pass protect, so according to your comparison of them coming out of college bell is a better pass protector better at catching the ball and he ran the zone blocking scheme. And yes it will be a landslide and dwyer will be lucky if hes still on the team at the end of camp.


no I said that is all we have to base Bell on and then attached a link to both of their collegiate stats to show how similar they really are ... you said Bell was a better blocker , I called BS because Dwyer is one of the best in the NFL at blocking ....

but hey why let the facts get in the way of a good argument

[steeldawg]

no I said that is all we have to base Bell on and then attached a link to both of their collegiate stats to show how similar they really are ... you said Bell was a better blocker , I called BS because Dwyer is one of the best in the NFL at blocking ....

but hey why let the facts get in the way of a good argument

Bell is a better blocker than dwyer was coming out of college easily because Georgia tech never threw the ball. also you were comparing the scheme dwyer ran at school to the scheme bell ran at school while posting links of both guys stats from college.

[Dwinsgames]

Bell is a better blocker than dwyer was coming out of college easily because Georgia tech never threw the ball. also you were comparing the scheme dwyer ran at school to the scheme bell ran at school while posting links of both guys stats from college.


what part of that is all we have to base Bell on at this point do you not understand ???

we can not list Bells pro stats he doesn't have any yet

really to the bold ???? because you never seen the Apollo landings does that mean they did not happen ?

because Hollyfield never got hit by Tyson prior to their first fight does that mean he could not take a punch from Tyson ( because nobody before him could ) ???

just because Dwyer did not have to block at GT does not mean he was not a capable pass blocker it only means you did not witness his blocking ability , lets take assumptions out of this and leave it to facts and the fact is you did not prequalify Bells blocking ability being better than Dwyers coming out of college you just said he was a better blocker and that is not true .... and even with the qualifier we do not know it to be true

[steeldawg]

what part of that is all we have to base Bell on at this point do you not understand ???

we can not list Bells pro stats he doesn't have any yet



please tell us so we can end the stupid shit


Right hes better than dwyer was coming out of school in all facets of the game he knows the scheme better than dwyer and dwyer has not been effective in the nfl.

[Dwinsgames]

Right hes better than dwyer was coming out of school in all facets of the game he knows the scheme better than dwyer and dwyer has not been effective in the nfl.


ohhh noooo ....

what a load of conjecture ....

NOTHING points to what your claiming , nothing ....... statistically Dwyer had 100 less yards rushing in his college career than Bell , but Dwyer had 170 less touches ..Dwyer 6.2 YPC as a collegiate when EVERYBODY knew they where running because they RARELY threw the ball .... Bell 5 ypc and they did have some semblance of a passing attack ..... granted to grossly different systems so an apples to oranges comparison to some degree

I also would not say Dwyer has not been effective in the NFL the man averages 4ypc ... Bell at this point 0.0 ypc , lots of potential but the Titanic was loaded with potential too , until it is proven it is ONLY POTENTIAL

[Count Steeler]

Dwins, I can't imagine that Dwyer has much of a leash this year. His opportunity to shine was last year. 2 downs and always looking to come out because he was winded was not a good sign. Early reports were that he was overweight, but he did deny it. I would think that the push is to have Bell start, so that the pressure can ease off of Colbert and his lack of recent draft success. So unless Bell is a victim of the Gilbert shuffle, he will be the starter.

[Dwinsgames]

Dwins, I can't imagine that Dwyer has much of a leash this year. His opportunity to shine was last year. 2 downs and always looking to come out because he was winded was not a good sign. Early reports were that he was overweight, but he did deny it. I would think that the push is to have Bell start, so that the pressure can ease off of Colbert and his lack of recent draft success. So unless Bell is a victim of the Gilbert shuffle, he will be the starter.


I never made the argument that Bell wont win the Job , but I do not believe it will be handed to him by the coaching staff or the other RBs he will in deed have to earn that job , all I am saying is there is zero evidence substantiating that Bell is a superior talent to Dwyer at this point in time college stats do not show this and since Bell has yet to play a down in the NFL anointing him as the savior is premature at the very least

[steeldawg]

ohhh noooo ....

what a load of conjecture ....

NOTHING points to what your claiming , nothing ....... statistically Dwyer had 100 less yards rushing in his college career than Bell , but Dwyer had 170 less touches ..Dwyer 6.2 YPC as a collegiate when EVERYBODY knew they where running because they RARELY threw the ball .... Bell 5 ypc and they did have some semblance of a passing attack ..... granted to grossly different systems so an apples to oranges comparison to some degree

I also would not say Dwyer has not been effective in the NFL the man averages 4ypc ... Bell at this point 0.0 ypc , lots of potential but the Titanic was loaded with potential too , until it is proven it is ONLY POTENTIAL

They drafted bell in the 2nd and tried to trade jonathan dwyer what more proof do you need that bell is a more talented back. If dwyer was more talented or even remotely effective they would not have tried to get rid of him, hes only 23 and has a small salary, why draft a guy you don't think is more talented than jonathan dwyer in the second round and then bring him to compete for your number one spot, are we shooting for the worst rushing attack in the league?

[Dwinsgames]

They drafted bell in the 2nd and tried to trade jonathan dwyer what more proof do you need that bell is a more talented back. If dwyer was more talented or even remotely effective they would not have tried to get rid of him, hes only 23 and has a small salary, why draft a guy you don't think is more talented than jonathan dwyer in the second round and then bring him to compete for your number one spot, are we shooting for the worst rushing attack in the league?


they passed on drafting Dan Marino in favor of keeping their own starter at QB that Cliff Stoudt must have been a real stud ( NOT ) .... see how your argument makes ZERO sense

dwyer was not nearly as bad as you would have us to believe ..... 4.0 YPC average in 2012 with a make shift line in front of him ( and in front of every back that played for us last year ) 623 yards with 156 touches ..

not all world but not bottom of the barrel like you suggest

these guys where also second round picks and where not more talented then the men they where drafted to replace

Limas Sweed

Bryant McFadden

Ricardo Colclough

Alonzo Jackson

Scott Shields

Jeremy Staat

Will Blackwell

Steven Conley




http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/chess_surender.gif

[LLT]

They drafted bell in the 2nd and tried to trade jonathan dwyer what more proof do you need that bell is a more talented back. If dwyer was more talented or even remotely effective they would not have tried to get rid of him, hes only 23 and has a small salary, why draft a guy you don't think is more talented than jonathan dwyer in the second round and then bring him to compete for your number one spot, are we shooting for the worst rushing attack in the league?

Who was the more talented WR....Hines Ward or Troy Edwards? Because after Hines Ward was drafted in 1996 ... Troy Edwards was selected in the first round of the 1999 Draft (With Burress being drafted in 2000)

Obviously the FO was considering "upgrading" the WR position....over a WR who ended up being a future HOFer.

[Nadroj 20]

Who was the more talented WR....Hines Ward or Troy Edwards? Because after Hines Ward was drafted in 1996 ... Troy Edwards was selected in the first round of the 1999 Draft (With Burress being drafted in 2000)

Obviously the FO was considering "upgrading" the WR position....over a WR who ended up being a future HOFer.

Excellent point! Perfect example of where they are drafted and what the mind set of the team is does not matter until the player has proven their worth.

[Dwinsgames]

as a foot note none of what I have said is meant to be a knock on Bell and anyone who paid any attention at all to the draft part of the forum knows I like Bell and early in the draft process ( the months leading into the draft ) had him on my " wish list " and in my early Steelers Mock ( but not as a second round pick ) for me he was a middle of the third round to late 4th round value and nothing has changed in my opinion since then since he has not played a lick of football since his last game at MS and that is where 99.9% of my evaluation comes from not the combine ( or as I call it the annual poke and prod )

[steeldawg]

Excellent point! Perfect example of where they are drafted and what the mind set of the team is does not matter until the player has proven their worth.

Only problem is ward was drafted in 1998 Edwards in 99 the steelers where not trying to replace ward as ward only played sparingly in 98 with 15 catches. Also I do not think we are in danger of jonathan dwyer becoming a future hall of famer, he's just not that good, he doesn't provide us with a consistent attack, he's not a homerun hitter, he's not a pass catcher why wouldn't you want the young talent to take over? You draft talent if they don't pan out on the field then that's the risk you take but you don't take high round draft picks and sit them behind a guy like jonathan dwyer,there is nothing to gain there.

[Nadroj 20]

Only problem is ward was drafted in 1998 Edwards in 99 the steelers where not trying to replace ward as ward only played sparingly in 98 with 15 catches. Also I do not think we are in danger of jonathan dwyer becoming a future hall of famer, he's just not that good, he doesn't provide us with a consistent attack, he's not a homerun hitter, he's not a pass catcher why wouldn't you want the young talent to take over? You draft talent if they don't pan out on the field then that's the risk you take but you don't take high round draft picks and sit them behind a guy like jonathan dwyer,there is nothing to gain there.

Did they know any of that after one year for Hines? Point is we have to be patient and see what happens. Dwyer doesn't have many failed years to look back on. He is young too and very likely has not reached his maximum potential. Plus, how long has it been since a rookie running back was really success for Pittsburgh? I can't think of one. You also have to consider Redman so I'm just waiting to see what happens. I guess I'm not trying to disagree with you, just not sure where all of you confidence is in a rookie. You aren't saying things like "i think" or "in my opinion". You are acting like you are stating a fact that Bell will be amazing. We just can't say that yet.

To the bolded part. I do. But what we are saying is his rookie year might not be that time quite yet. But, who knows? I hope he rushes for 1000 yards! But the truth is, I don't know if any of our backs is capable of that this early.

[steeldawg]

Did they know any of that after one year for Hines? Point is we have to be patient and see what happens. Dwyer doesn't have many failed years to look back on. He is young too and very likely has not reached his maximum potential. Plus, how long has it been since a rookie running back was really success for Pittsburgh? I can't think of one.

that's the point with dwyer he's been in the league 3 years this will be his 4th he only has 181 carries, there must be a reason he cant get the ball, there must be a reason they tried to trade him in the offseason. You don't draft a guy in the second round if you have a young guy you expect to be your future. There is no point in putting your second round back whos unproven behind a guy who's been unable to prove himself. If we were looking for dwyer to reach his potential while hes young that means he would be our back for years to come, why draft a second round back up?

[Count Steeler]

that's the point with dwyer he's been in the league 3 years this will be his 4th he only has 181 carries, there must be a reason he cant get the ball, there must be a reason they tried to trade him in the offseason. You don't draft a guy in the second round if you have a young guy you expect to be your future. There is no point in putting your second round back whos unproven behind a guy who's been unable to prove himself. If we were looking for dwyer to reach his potential while hes young that means he would be our back for years to come, why draft a second round back up?

It's all a crap shoot. Bell is not a lock to be successful. Don't forget that many draft pundits scratched their collective heads at this pick. Many said the Steelers overreached for Bell. Hope he proves them all wrong.

[steeldawg]

It's all a crap shoot. Bell is not a lock to be successful. Don't forget that many draft pundits scratched their collective heads at this pick. Many said the Steelers overreached for Bell. Hope he proves them all wrong.

Ya I agree but my point is why sit the unproven guy in favor of a guy we know is not that good. If bell was coming in behind a mediocre veteran then I would say ya let him sit and learn but that's not the situation, our running game sucked last season so we not only drafted a back we switched our entire to scheme to the exact scheme he had at Michigan.

[Nadroj 20]

It's all a crap shoot. Bell is not a lock to be successful. Don't forget that many draft pundits scratched their collective heads at this pick. Many said the Steelers overreached for Bell. Hope he proves them all wrong.

True. I wasn't sure about the pick when there were still a few backs on the board. Lacy from Bama was one for example.

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Ya I agree but my point is why sit the unproven guy in favor of a guy we know is not that good. If bell was coming in behind a mediocre veteran then I would say ya let him sit and learn but that's not the situation, our running game sucked last season so we not only drafted a back we switched our entire to scheme to the exact scheme he had at Michigan.

You may be 100% correct steeldawg. Your points are all valid. We still have to wait and see though. People have surprised in camp before and maybe a determined Dwyer will do that? Let's not dwell on the past and just look to the future.

May the best back (this camp and preseason) win!

Michigan State by the way.

[Craic]

Things we know for a fact about Dwyer in the NFL:



Jonathan Dwyer was the best pass protecting RB in the NFL last year. Interestingly, Redman finished number two last year.
Dwyer can put the smack down on LB's when running the ball. Last year I watched him literally line up a LB while carrying and drill him, knocking straight down, then Dwyer continued to carry for another 5-7 yards.
Dwyer can sub off the bench and still have a good game blocking and running.
He has the ability to produce 100-yard games.
Last two years, he's had 9 games with over 10 touches a game, and has 3 100 yard games. That's a 1-3 ratio in a time when Steelers running backs seldom had 100 yard games.


Things we know for a fact about Bell in the NFL


He was drafted in the second round
he made it to training camp
he ran well in shorts in the spring.



Bell may or may not be the starting running back. Don't forget, we are now a pass first team, and will remain that way. There's very little doubt that unless Bell can measure up to the number 1 and 2 pass blocking RBs in the NFL, he's not going to be seeing much of the field. Especially not when both back have shown that they are capable of running the ball. Sure, they're not home run hitters (Of course, Dwyer's long is a 76 yard run in 2011 and a 34 in 2012), but they can run the ball.

[LLT]

Only problem is ward was drafted in 1998 Edwards in 99 the steelers where not trying to replace ward as ward only played sparingly in 98 with 15 catches. Also I do not think we are in danger of jonathan dwyer becoming a future hall of famer, he's just not that good, he doesn't provide us with a consistent attack, he's not a homerun hitter, he's not a pass catcher why wouldn't you want the young talent to take over? You draft talent if they don't pan out on the field then that's the risk you take but you don't take high round draft picks and sit them behind a guy like jonathan dwyer,there is nothing to gain there.

Your talking in circles again.

Nobody on this site was hoping harder than I was, that Bell would be drafted by the Steelers...but you cant make the argument that He is better than Dwyer when he hasnt played one NFL game. Thats the point of the Edwards/Ward example. On paper (and college highlight reels) Edwards was by far the superior WR and was obviously drafted higher than Ward.

Do the vast majority of us think that Bell might be our feature back? Yes.
Do we think your argument for him being the feature back based on his college resume and draft placement is shallow and absurd? Yes.

[steeldawg]

Your talking in circles again.

Nobody on this site was hoping harder than I was, that Bell would be drafted by the Steelers...but you cant make the argument that He is better than Dwyer when he hasnt played one NFL game. Thats the point of the Edwards/Ward example. On paper (and college highlight reels) Edwards was by far the superior WR and was obviously drafted higher than Ward.

Do the vast majority of us think that Bell might be our feature back? Yes.
Do we think your argument for him being the feature back based on his college resume and draft placement is shallow and absurd? Yes.

Lol my argument is not just based on his college performance its also based on the fact that dwyer was at the top of a rushing attack which was one of the worst in a long time. Yes I expect a second round pick to start over one of our worst rushing attacks, if not then whats the point of taking a high pick at rb. The steelers obviously think that bell is a better back coming out school than dwyer is right now otherwise why even take bell? All you have to do is look at the fact dwyer is 23yrs old and the steelers used a high round pick on a running back, that tells you all you have to know about dwyer. As far as the Edwards example who cares, I can point to A.j. green, rg III, calvin Johnson, larry fitzgerald, Adrian Peterson, .......on and on and on All early draft picks all immediate starters all successful.

[Dwinsgames]

As far as the Edwards example who cares, I can point to A.j. green, rg III, calvin Johnson, larry fitzgerald, Adrian Peterson, .......on and on and on All early draft picks all immediate starters all successful.


apples to oranges again ....

1) none of those guys where second round picks that most believed would be 3rd round picks

2) none of those guys where drafted by the Steelers

3) nobody other than Bells Mom ( and you ) would even put him in the same class as the guys listed above at this juncture

[steeldawg]

apples to oranges again ....

1) none of those guys where second round picks that most believed would be 3rd round picks

2) none of those guys where drafted by the Steelers

3) nobody other than Bells Mom ( and you ) would even put him in the same class as the guys listed above at this juncture

he made the comparison to Edwards who was a first round pick so I showed that other high draft picks whos college talent translated directly to the nfl that's why they are taken as high round draft picks, teams do not waste their high picks on guys that sit the bench especially sitting the bench behind one of the worst rushing attacks.

[Dwinsgames]

he made the comparison to Edwards who was a first round pick so I showed that other high draft picks whos college talent translated directly to the nfl that's why they are taken as high round draft picks, teams do not waste their high picks on guys that sit the bench especially sitting the bench behind one of the worst rushing attacks.

Ziggy Hood no starts as a rookie
Cam Heyward no starts as a rookie
Troy Polamalu sat a good portion of his rookie year and no starts ( Brent " burnt" Alexander and Mike Logan where the starters ) hardly Troys equals
Timmon sat his rookie year no starts as a rookie .... Farrior and Foote got the starts
Worilds sat the majority of his time here no starts as a rookie pretty much anyone with a pulse got reps in front of him
Woodley sat the vast majority of his rookie year no starts


all first or second round picks others got on the field as starters but only because of injuries forcing them onto the field , Ben , Gilbert per examples further proving your argument invalid ....

just like this one did that you chose to ignore in our back n forth earlier in the thread .....



they passed on drafting Dan Marino in favor of keeping their own starter at QB that Cliff Stoudt must have been a real stud ( NOT ) .... see how your argument makes ZERO sense

dwyer was not nearly as bad as you would have us to believe ..... 4.0 YPC average in 2012 with a make shift line in front of him ( and in front of every back that played for us last year ) 623 yards with 156 touches ..

not all world but not bottom of the barrel like you suggest

these guys where also second round picks and where not more talented then the men they where drafted to replace

Limas Sweed

Bryant McFadden

Ricardo Colclough

Alonzo Jackson

Scott Shields

Jeremy Staat

Will Blackwell

Steven Conley




http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/chess_surender.gif

[steeldawg]

Ziggy Hood no starts as a rookie
Cam Heyward no starts as a rookie
Troy Polamalu sat a good portion of his rookie year and no starts ( Brent " burnt" Alexander and Mike Logan where the starters ) hardly Troys equals
Timmon sat his rookie year no starts as a rookie .... Farrior and Foote got the starts
Worilds sat the majority of his time here no starts as a rookie pretty much anyone with a pulse got reps in front of him
Woodley sat the vast majority of his rookie year no starts


all first or second round picks others got on the field as starters but only because of injuries forcing them onto the field , Ben , Gilbert per examples

All defense and guys coming into a complicated zone blitz scheme and entering a top ranked defense, with established starters in front of them, situation completely different. Your making it too much about draft position, the reason bells draft position is important is because of the guy hes going to replace. Dwyer is still young if the steelers felt he was a starting caliber rb then there is no point in taking a high draft pick rb.

[Nadroj 20]

that's the point with dwyer he's been in the league 3 years this will be his 4th he only has 181 carries, there must be a reason he cant get the ball, there must be a reason they tried to trade him in the offseason. You don't draft a guy in the second round if you have a young guy you expect to be your future. There is no point in putting your second round back whos unproven behind a guy who's been unable to prove himself. If we were looking for dwyer to reach his potential while hes young that means he would be our back for years to come, why draft a second round back up?

For the future! Just because we draft a guy in the second round does not mean he is a starter. He still has to prove to be the best. It is that simple!

Even if Bell does prove that my point still stands. He had to earn it. Where he was drafted means nothing.

[Dwinsgames]

All defense and guys coming into a complicated zone blitz scheme and entering a top ranked defense, with established starters in front of them, situation completely different.


why not just admit it when your wrong ...this job will have to be won , not handed to him and it is no gimme he will win the job

was Ben a defensive player ? why did it take injury for him to get on the field ???

was Gilbert a defensive player too when he was drafted ?

whats the excuse for these guys who clearly as second round picks the Steelers where looking to upgrade yet these guys not only failed to win the job but they where all out of the league in short order with exception to McFadden who had really just 1 decent year in his career as a starter

these guys where also second round picks and where not more talented then the men they where drafted to replace

Limas Sweed

Bryant McFadden

Ricardo Colclough

Alonzo Jackson

Scott Shields

Jeremy Staat

Will Blackwell

Steven Conley

[Nadroj 20]

why not just admit it when your wrong ...this job will have to be won , not handed to him and it is no gimme he will win the job

was Ben a defensive player ? why did it take injury for him to get on the field ???

was Gilbert a defensive player too when he was drafted ?

whats the excuse for these guys who clearly as second round picks the Steelers where looking to upgrade yet these guys not only failed to win the job but they where all out of the league in short order with exception to McFadden who had really just 1 decent year in his career as a starter

these guys where also second round picks and where not more talented then the men they where drafted to replace

Limas Sweed

Bryant McFadden

Ricardo Colclough

Alonzo Jackson

Scott Shields

Jeremy Staat

Will Blackwell

Steven Conley

Yes. I think Ben has been a little more successful then Tommy Maddox. Yet, Tommy was the starter and it took an injury in order for Ben to play. We took Ben 11th overall and still Tommy was the starter, even though he was nothing special at all and we were 6-10 with him the year before we took Ben.

[LLT]

Lol my argument is not just based on his college performance its also based on the fact that dwyer was at the top of a rushing attack which was one of the worst in a long time. Yes I expect a second round pick to start over one of our worst rushing attacks, if not then whats the point of taking a high pick at rb. The steelers obviously think that bell is a better back coming out school than dwyer is right now otherwise why even take bell? All you have to do is look at the fact dwyer is 23yrs old and the steelers used a high round pick on a running back, that tells you all you have to know about dwyer. As far as the Edwards example who cares, I can point to A.j. green, rg III, calvin Johnson, larry fitzgerald, Adrian Peterson, .......on and on and on All early draft picks all immediate starters all successful.

For every Adrian Peterson you throw out...I can throw a Rashaan Salaam...Tommy Vardel ...and Ki-Jana Carter.

Your argument is just incredibly miopic.

There are only two side here. Those who hope that Bell does well but appreciates Dwyers abilities....and you trying to bash Dwyer with no facts other than that we drafted a RB in the 2nd round.

[Dwinsgames]

a list of RBs drafted in the first 2 rounds the past 5 years that did NOTHING to validate the selection point starting in 2011 so I essentially am giving 1 year backs a pass ( Bell will be in his first year but you think he is the man without having 1 rep under his belt at this level ) .....


Mark Ingram
Ryan Williams
Shane Vereen
Mikel Leshoure
Daniel Thomas
Jahvid Best
Dexter McCluster
Toby Gerhart
Montario Hardesty
Knowshon Moreno
Donald Brown
Beanie Wells
Felix Jones
Rashard Mendenhall
Kenny Irons
Chris Henry
Brian Leonard
Brandon Jackson

those are just the guys drafted in the first 2 rounds that at the time they where drafted the organizations had very high expectations for and where assumed to be the future many never got 1 start in the league ( this list only dates from 2007 to 2011 first 2 round so a 5 year span excluding last years rookie class ) but all failed to live up to their draft status ...

Being a high pick does not mean you are going to automatically be successful

[LLT]

a list of RBs drafted in the first 2 rounds the past 5 years that did NOTHING to validate the selection point starting in 2011 so I essentially am giving 1 year backs a pass ( Bell will be in his first year but you think he is the man without having 1 rep under his belt at this level ) .....


Mark Ingram
Ryan Williams
Shane Vereen
Mikel Leshoure
Daniel Thomas
Jahvid Best
Dexter McCluster
Toby Gerhart
Montario Hardesty
Knowshon Moreno
Donald Brown
Beanie Wells
Felix Jones
Rashard Mendenhall
Kenny Irons
Chris Henry
Brian Leonard
Brandon Jackson

those are just the guys drafted in the first 2 rounds that at the time they where drafted the organizations had very high expectations for and where assumed to be the future many never got 1 start in the league ( this list only dates from 2007 to 2011 first 2 round so a 5 year span excluding last years rookie class ) but all failed to live up to their draft status ...

Being a high pick does not mean you are going to automatically be successful

But...all none of those you mentioned's were: Michigan State RBs, with two capital letters in their first name, and drafted in a year ending with a "13" ...Obviously not a good comparison.

[Dwinsgames]

But...all none of those you mentioned's were: Michigan State RBs, with two capital letters in their first name, and drafted in a year ending with a "13" ...Obviously not a good comparison.


you are attending classes in the steeldawg school of argumentism ...... seems you have been paying close attention in the class room :chuckle:

[LLT]

you are attending classes in the steeldawg school of argumentism ...... seems you have been paying close attention in the class room :chuckle:

Only class in history in which a passing grade gets you demoted a full year of study.

[Craic]

For every Adrian Peterson you throw out...I can throw a Rashaan Salaam...Tommy Vardel ...and Ki-Jana Carter.

Your argument is just incredibly miopic.

There are only two side here. Those who hope that Bell does well but appreciates Dwyers abilities....and you trying to bash Dwyer with no facts other than that we drafted a RB in the 2nd round.

I read "myopic" in a forum not focused on writing or English syntax . . . :hail:

:chuckle:

[steeldawg]

For every Adrian Peterson you throw out...I can throw a Rashaan Salaam...Tommy Vardel ...and Ki-Jana Carter.

Your argument is just incredibly miopic.

There are only two side here. Those who hope that Bell does well but appreciates Dwyers abilities....and you trying to bash Dwyer with no facts other than that we drafted a RB in the 2nd round.

LOL, bash dwyer with no facts!!!??? Appreciate what abilities, cant stay on the field, poor vision, head of the 26th ranked rushing attack in the nfl, going into his 4th year still has 774yds total and 2 tds, my goodness youre right!!! He has proven that he can be an effective back in this league I cant believe he has reached these stats in just 3 years. If I have to appreciate those abilities can we put mendy in the hall of fame?

[Dwinsgames]

LOL, bash dwyer with no facts!!!??? Appreciate what abilities, cant stay on the field, poor vision, head of the 26th ranked rushing attack in the nfl, going into his 4th year still has 774yds total and 2 tds, my goodness youre right!!! He has proven that he can be an effective back in this league I cant believe he has reached these stats in just 3 years. If I have to appreciate those abilities can we put mendy in the hall of fame?


156 carries 623 yards ...4.0 ypc ... had he gotten the customary 275-300 carries he would have easily topped the 1,000 barrier with a couple hundred yards to spare all the while playing behind a line that featured some pretty dubious configurations ...

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Oh the mock drafts had him as a 3rd or 4th rounder well I guess I stand corrected, jonathan dwyer should start because even though our rushing attack sucked last season at least we know what we are getting. Your right 4 yds a carry doesn't suck except when your only carrying the ball 9 times a game.

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Im done not going to derail this thread just post your response in the other thread we where arguing in.

now all the sudden play calling and who the coaching staff has on the field becomes Dwyer's fault .... gotcha

[steeldawg]

156 carries 623 yards ...4.0 ypc ... had he gotten the customary 275-300 carries he would have easily topped the 1,000 barrier with a couple hundred yards to spare all the while playing behind a line that featured some pretty dubious configurations ...

Mendy only got that many carries once in his 3 healthy seasons. Second you cant give dwyer that many carries on a consistent basis he cant handle it hes not a work horse. Issac redman averages 4.2 ypc for his career but we are not about to start him either. If try to give either of these backs 300 carries my guess is that not only will they average less than 4.0 ypc they wouldn't last an entire season. Hell dwyer couldn't make it through last season with only 156 carries.

[Dwinsgames]

Mendy only got that many carries once in his 3 healthy seasons. Second you cant give dwyer that many carries on a consistent basis he cant handle it hes not a work horse. Issac redman averages 4.2 ypc for his career but we are not about to start him either. If try to give either of these backs 300 carries my guess is that not only will they average less than 4.0 ypc they wouldn't last an entire season. Hell dwyer couldn't make it through last season with only 156 carries.


Redman ran behind that same shitty line last year as Dwyer ... Redman could only muster 3.7 YPC and with a career average of 4.2 that fact should speak volumes of what the real issue was ... I trust you understand what I am saying without me coming right out and saying it

as a side note in 5 NFL seasons Mendy only eclipsed 4 ypc twice and every year with exception to his rookie year and last year he had at the very min. nearly 100 more carries than Dwyer and 1 of those 3 seasons he doubled Dwyers carries with less than double the output

[steeldawg]

Redman ran behind that same shitty line last year as Dwyer ... Redman could only muster 3.7 YPC and with a career average of 4.2 that fact should speak volumes of what the real issue was ... I trust you understand what I am saying without me coming right out and saying it

O-line was factor last season but even with a great o-line these guys are not 300 carry backs and neither is a three down back, which the steelers are looking for. The reason we had to keep rotating backs last season is in order for dwyer to be effective he has to be completely fresh. The point is even in the seasons where redman averaged over 4.0yds per carry do not translate into him being a starting a running back who gets 300 carries.

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What stands out more too me is the fact that dwyer averages less than 10 carries per game in games that he has played.

[Dwinsgames]

O-line was factor last season but even with a great o-line these guys are not 300 carry backs and neither is a three down back, which the steelers are looking for. The reason we had to keep rotating backs last season is in order for dwyer to be effective he has to be completely fresh. The point is even in the seasons where redman averaged over 4.0yds per carry do not translate into him being a starting a running back who gets 300 carries.
.

I think that is subjective thinking Redman had 281 carries in 2005 as a collegiate ( in 12 games) and rushed for 1500 + yards yes not the NFL but he still toted the rock a whole bunch and was effective doing so yes the NFL is another monster than a low tier college program but carries are carries ... my point being claiming he can not is not the same as actually not being capable of doing it ...

until it is actually asked of him we just do not know for certain what he can / can not do ....

Dwyers issue is not being in the shape to handle the bulk of the carries , granted it is a flaw but one year to the next things change if he is in shape he will be a worthy opponent and a challenge for anyone on the roster to win the starting job over him ...

as I see it he is the man to beat if you want to start here , however if he does not win the starting job he could be out of work because Redman gives you the better short yardage option and Dwyer is the most similar to Bell ( a reason I would keep them both on the roster ) but that normally will get you cut from this team where they like having variety over similarities for whatever reason ...

[Nadroj 20]

I think that is subjective thinking Redman had 281 carries in 2005 as a collegiate ( in 12 games) and rushed for 1500 + yards yes not the NFL but he still toted the rock a whole bunch and was effective doing so yes the NFL is another monster than a low tier college program but carries are carries ... my point being claiming he can not is not the same as actually not being capable of doing it ...

until it is actually asked of him we just do not know for certain what he can / can not do ....

Dwyers issue is not being in the shape to handle the bulk of the carries , granted it is a flaw but one year to the next things change if he is in shape he will be a worthy opponent and a challenge for anyone on the roster to win the starting job over him ...

as I see it he is the man to beat if you want to start here , however if he does not win the starting job he could be out of work because Redman gives you the better short yardage option and Dwyer is the most similar to Bell ( a reason I would keep them both on the roster ) but that normally will get you cut from this team where they like having variety over similarities for whatever reason ...

It is odd that Dwyer is in a feast or famine situation. He could be the starter or cut from the team. That really sucks, but totally possible.

[Dwinsgames]

It is odd that Dwyer is in a feast or famine situation. He could be the starter or cut from the team. That really sucks, but totally possible.


yes it does !

I am all for having the " change of pace back " but I also come from the camp of having my primary backup being as similar to my starter as possible that way if the starter goes down my game plan does not change or is forcibly altered to maximize the new addition to the lineups abilities , I like to put players in the best possible scenario to succeed ( so play to their strengths ) Dwyer and Bell have similar skill sets , whereas Redman , Batch , Howling are all very different ...in a perfect world Batch is the odd man out but I am not sure the team looks at it in the same light

[steeldawg]

I think that is subjective thinking Redman had 281 carries in 2005 as a collegiate ( in 12 games) and rushed for 1500 + yards yes not the NFL but he still toted the rock a whole bunch and was effective doing so yes the NFL is another monster than a low tier college program but carries are carries ... my point being claiming he can not is not the same as actually not being capable of doing it ...

until it is actually asked of him we just do not know for certain what he can / can not do ....

Dwyers issue is not being in the shape to handle the bulk of the carries , granted it is a flaw but one year to the next things change if he is in shape he will be a worthy opponent and a challenge for anyone on the roster to win the starting job over him ...

as I see it he is the man to beat if you want to start here , however if he does not win the starting job he could be out of work because Redman gives you the better short yardage option and Dwyer is the most similar to Bell ( a reason I would keep them both on the roster ) but that normally will get you cut from this team where they like having variety over similarities for whatever reason ...

Im confident that the team redman is on knows if he is capable of toting the rock 300 times against nfl defense, dwyer also. These coaches see these guys all the time so to say they don't know if these guys can carry the ball 300 times a season isn't accurate. If the steelers thought dwyer could carry the rock 300 times at 4.0 ypc do you think they would of took a second round back ,changed the running scheme, tried to trade a 23 year old dwyer in the offseason, and essentially put him on the bubble to make the roster?

[Dwinsgames]

Im confident that the team redman is on knows if he is capable of toting the rock 300 times against nfl defense, dwyer also. These coaches see these guys all the time so to say they don't know if these guys can carry the ball 300 times a season isn't accurate. If the steelers thought dwyer could carry the rock 300 times at 4.0 ypc do you think they would of took a second round back ,changed the running scheme, tried to trade a 23 year old dwyer in the offseason, and essentially put him on the bubble to make the roster?


20 times ?

guessing but it has to be reasonably close to 20 times you want to directly correlate draft position into superior talent and guaranteed starting role and nothing could be further from the truth ....

if history is any indicator of future results there is a larger chance based on percentages that Bell will not be the starter than him being the starter draft position has NOTHING to do with whom they award the job to in Pittsburgh History is an indicator of that ......

get back to me when you have something new please because this job will not be won by draft position it will be won by performance during training camp and preseason

[steeldawg]

20 times ?

guessing but it has to be reasonably close to 20 times you want to directly correlate draft position into superior talent and guaranteed starting role and nothing could be further from the truth ....

if history is any indicator of future results there is a larger chance based on percentages that Bell will not be the starter than him being the starter draft position has NOTHING to do with whom they award the job to in Pittsburgh History is an indicator of that ......

get back to me when you have something new please because this job will not be won by draft position it will be won by performance during training camp and preseason

Then why not take a back in the 12th round or an undrafted guy? Why take a second rounder and paying him as such if you don't plan on him being your starter.

[Nadroj 20]

Then why not take a back in the 12th round or an undrafted guy? Why take a second rounder and paying him as such if you don't plan on him being your starter.

Because that's what it is. A PLAN.

Does every plan or thought you have work? Ideally yeah we needed a new back to possibly become the work horse. That doesn't mean that (what we've been trying to say for days) he is going to be GIVEN the job. He still has to earn it.

That is the only point I have been trying to make and you can have your opinion about Bell but how can you not admit he still has to earn the job?

[steeldawg]

Because that's what it is. A PLAN.

Does every plan or thought you have work? Ideally yeah we needed a new back to possibly become the work horse. That doesn't mean that (what we've been trying to say for days) he is going to be GIVEN the job. He still has to earn it.

That is the only point I have been trying to make and you can have your opinion about Bell but how can you not admit he still has to earn the job?

All he has to do to earn the job is learn the offense we drafted him to start!!!!! Its silly to say that an undrafted guy and a second round pick would come in on the same footing to start for an nfl team. They scout these guys for a reason and they're selected in in certain rounds for a reason, training camp is not the ultimate measuring stick to wether a guy starts. We drafted a back not only to start but for the future, we wouldn't take a second round pick who we thought couldn't beat out dwyer and well end up a backup.

[Dwinsgames]

Then why not take a back in the 12th round or an undrafted guy? Why take a second rounder and paying him as such if you don't plan on him being your starter.

1) perhaps because there is no longer 12 rounds in the draft ?

2) you are always looking to improve with guys from the draft , that does not always mean you hit the jackpot with your selections earlier in this thread I named multiple STEELER 2nd round picks that where thought to be upgrades that failed to be in the league by the time the second contract came around and never made any impact on the game in a Steeler ( or any other ) uniform ...

draft status is only as good as your evaluations prior to drafting them and nobody has a crystal ball into what kind of player they evolve into once they get to the NFL level where every player is bigger , stronger , and faster than the level before ....

We drafted Mendenhall in the first round and he could not supplant Willie Parker an UN drafted player in Mendys rookie year ...showing how short sighted your comments really are in terms to draft status handing a job over on a silver platter to a rookie if he is a first couple round guy ....

[steeldawg]

1) perhaps because there is no longer 12 rounds in the draft ?

2) you are always looking to improve with guys from the draft , that does not always mean you hit the jackpot with your selections earlier in this thread I named multiple STEELER 2nd round picks that where thought to be upgrades that failed to be in the league by the time the second contract came around and never made any impact on the game in a Steeler ( or any other ) uniform ...

draft status is only as good as your evaluations prior to drafting them and nobody has a crystal ball into what kind of player they evolve into once they get to the NFL level where every player is bigger , stronger , and faster than the level before

Im not saying bell will be the greatest running back or making any predictions on the outcome of his career, Im saying the steelers drafted him to start, they are not looking for dwyer to be the starter that is obvious.

[Dwinsgames]

Im not saying bell will be the greatest running back or making any predictions on the outcome of his career, Im saying the steelers drafted him to start, they are not looking for dwyer to be the starter that is obvious.

expectations do not equate to results .

the job will have to be won between the white lines period

[Nadroj 20]

All he has to do to earn the job is learn the offense we drafted him to start!!!!! Its silly to say that an undrafted guy and a second round pick would come in on the same footing to start for an nfl team. They scout these guys for a reason and they're selected in in certain rounds for a reason, training camp is not the ultimate measuring stick to wether a guy starts. We drafted a back not only to start but for the future, we wouldn't take a second round pick who we thought couldn't beat out dwyer and well end up a backup.

Maybe he will only be a backup for one year. Gain experience and then start next season! Just because we drafted a guy in the second round does not mean he will start. The steelers haven't had a rookie RB start in like 40 years.

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Im not saying bell will be the greatest running back or making any predictions on the outcome of his career, Im saying the steelers drafted him to start, they are not looking for dwyer to be the starter that is obvious.

Yes it is obvious. Doesn't mean it will work out that way. Of course they want Bell to start but he still has to prove he is capable. It's that simple.

Maybe it won't take long to prove but he still has to prove it.

[Count Steeler]

All he has to do to earn the job is learn the offense we drafted him to start!!!!! Its silly to say that an undrafted guy and a second round pick would come in on the same footing to start for an nfl team. They scout these guys for a reason and they're selected in in certain rounds for a reason, training camp is not the ultimate measuring stick to wether a guy starts. We drafted a back not only to start but for the future, we wouldn't take a second round pick who we thought couldn't beat out dwyer and well end up a backup.

So when will Landry be starting? We wasted a 4th round pick on a backup QB? FIRE Colbert! Should have just picked up a UDFA for backup. Since we drafted him, he must be starting soon.

^^^^ That is the logic you are touting. ^^^^

[Nadroj 20]

So when will Landry be starting? We wasted a 4th round pick on a backup QB? FIRE Colbert! Should have just picked up a UDFA for backup. Since we drafted him, he must be starting soon.

^^^^ That is the logic you are touting. ^^^^

This. As used earlier we drafted Ben with the 11th OVERALL pick and he wasn't handed the job year one. And yes we drafted him to become our starter. EVENTUALLY.

We still gave the job to Tommy Maddox who was never anything more then average and that may be pushing it.

Obviously QB and RB are different positions but the point is where you are drafted and the value the team places on you only matters a little. It is what you prove on the field that counts.

[steeldawg]

Maybe he will only be a backup for one year. Gain experience and then start next season! Just because we drafted a guy in the second round does not mean he will start. The steelers haven't had a rookie RB start in like 40 years.

Really you want another year of the dwyer redman attack? Im notsaying just cause we took him in the second round he will start, what I am saying because dwyer is young, because we tried to trade him, because we changed the scheme to the same scheme bell runs, because we took a second round rb with a young back already on the roster. It makes no sense to think the steelers believe that dwyer is a starter. Bell will be the starter you can take that to the bank.

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So when will Landry be starting? We wasted a 4th round pick on a backup QB? FIRE Colbert! Should have just picked up a UDFA for backup. Since we drafted him, he must be starting soon.

^^^^ That is the logic you are touting. ^^^^

No we had to take a talented back up because ben has only lasted one full season. Also big difference between 2nd round picks and 4th round.

[Nadroj 20]

Really you want another year of the dwyer redman attack? Im notsaying just cause we took him in the second round he will start, what I am saying because dwyer is young, because we tried to trade him, because we changed the scheme to the same scheme bell runs, because we took a second round rb with a young back already on the roster. It makes no sense to think the steelers believe that dwyer is a starter. Bell will be the starter you can take that to the bank.

They shouldn't believe anything yet!

This bugs me because if that is true you will come say I told you so which is totally not my point. If Bell proves to be the starter it'll actually make my point which is he earned the job over the other guys. Not because of anything else you just said because all that should matter now is this training camp and preseason.

[Dwinsgames]

big difference between 2nd round picks and 4th round.

an even larger difference between Willie Parker UDFA pickup and First round pick Rashard Mendenhall .... but Parker won the Job in Mendenhall's rookie year ...just sayin

[steeldawg]

This. As used earlier we drafted Ben with the 11th OVERALL pick and he wasn't handed the job year one. And yes we drafted him to become our starter. EVENTUALLY.

We still gave the job to Tommy Maddox who was never anything more then average and that may be pushing it.

Obviously QB and RB are different positions but the point is where you are drafted and the value the team places on you only matters a little. It is what you prove on the field that counts.

Qb is a monster difference from rb plus he was coming in behind a guy who was an established starter. dwyer is not an established starter he has one 181 carries for his career. also with ben I think its obvious he should of been starting and his first round talent was far superior to tommy Maddox even though he wasn't acclimated to the nfl game.

[Dwinsgames]

Qb is a monster difference from rb plus he was coming in behind a guy who was an established starter. dwyer is not an established starter he has one 181 carries for his career. also with ben I think its obvious he should of been starting and his first round talent was far superior to tommy Maddox even though he wasn't acclimated to the nfl game.


Maddox was 6-10 the prior year .....

[Nadroj 20]

Qb is a monster difference from rb plus he was coming in behind a guy who was an established starter. dwyer is not an established starter he has one 181 carries for his career. also with ben I think its obvious he should of been starting and his first round talent was far superior to tommy Maddox even though he wasn't acclimated to the nfl game.

Yet, he didn't start.

I don't see how Maddox was an established starter? We actually may be getting away from the point because you are right QB and RB are very different and I noted that in my post but I was using the example of where you are drafted doesn't matter. Like you said Ben's talent was superior to Maddox even as a rookie. Just like you say Bell's is to Dwyer (which I do hope is true). Yet the more experienced guy started.

[steeldawg]

an even larger difference between Willie Parker UDFA pickup and First round pick Rashard Mendenhall .... but Parker won the Job in Mendenhall's rookie year ...just sayin

again willie parker establishe starter, also mendy was still getting carries his rookie year till he got hurt and then took the starting job next season. you guys are acting like dwyer has been a starting back the only reason he even played last year was because of injury bell is coming into a situation where there is no starter to surpass, if dwyer was a starting caliber back there would have been no reason to get bell, dwyer is young plenty of career to be made the back for the future. Im not basing bell starting on his draft position, Im basing it on the fact that the steelers don't believe in jonathan dwyer which is why we draft a 2nd round back.

[Dwinsgames]

again willie parker establishe starter, also mendy was still getting carries his rookie year till he got hurt and then took the starting job next season. you guys are acting like dwyer has been a starting back the only reason he even played last year was because of injury bell is coming into a situation where there is no starter to surpass, if dwyer was a starting caliber back there would have been no reason to get bell, dwyer is young plenty of career to be made the back for the future. Im not basing bell starting on his draft position, Im basing it on the fact that the steelers don't believe in jonathan dwyer which is why we draft a 2nd round back.




19 attempts his rookie year !

10 vs Houston week 1 ( 2.8 YPC )

0 vs the Eagles week 2 ( no rushing attempts )

9 vs the Ravens week 3 ( 3.1 YPC )

out for the season hardly a large enough sample to call a pattern

[steeldawg]

Yet, he didn't start.

I don't see how Maddox was an established starter? We actually may be getting away from the point because you are right QB and RB are very different and I noted that in my post but I was using the example of where you are drafted doesn't matter. Like you said Ben's talent was superior to Maddox even as a rookie. Just like you say Bell's is to Dwyer (which I do hope is true). Yet the more experienced guy started.

Maddox started two full seasons before we drafted ben he was the established starter. The experience level between bell and dwyer is so small its irrelevant also the fact that bell knows the zone blocking scheme and dwyer does not. You have to consider the situation bell is coming into as a second round pick (all 2nd round picks are different) He walks in as the most physically talented back probably the highest paid, if we wanted to go with the experience factor than redman would be the starter. Also the fact that dwyer might not even make the roster is huge red flag when it comes to him. If we had an established starter at rb then bell probably wouldn't start but since we don't its probably going to the guy we drafted to start.

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19 attempts his rookie year !

10 vs Houston week 1 ( 2.8 YPC )

0 vs the Eagles week 2 ( no rushing attempts )

9 vs the Ravens week 3 ( 3.1 YPC )

out for the season hardly a large enough sample to call a pattern

well he got hurt but again willie parker, 4 year established starter.

[Dwinsgames]

again ​in case you missed it the first time



get back to me when you have something new please because this job will not be won by draft position it will be won by performance during training camp and preseason

:zzz:

[Nadroj 20]

Maddox started two full seasons before we drafted ben he was the established starter. The experience level between bell and dwyer is so small its irrelevant also the fact that bell knows the zone blocking scheme and dwyer does not. You have to consider the situation bell is coming into as a second round pick (all 2nd round picks are different) He walks in as the most physically talented back probably the highest paid, if we wanted to go with the experience factor than redman would be the starter. Also the fact that dwyer might not even make the roster is huge red flag when it comes to him. If we had an established starter at rb then bell probably wouldn't start but since we don't its probably going to the guy we drafted to start.

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well he got hurt but again willie parker, 4 year established starter.

I'm not making a case for Dwyer over Bell because I've said maybe Red man starts. My point is bell won't be given the job

[Dwinsgames]

I'm not making a case for Dwyer over Bell because I've said maybe Red man starts. My point is bell won't be given the job

I believe that is what everybody EXCEPT Steeldawg has been saying

[steeldawg]

I'm not making a case for Dwyer over Bell because I've said maybe Red man starts. My point is bell won't be given the job

I never said he will be given anything, I said he is drafted to be the starter. Meaning he is our most talented back so assuming he doesn't fall flat on his face he will start. Its really bells job to lose.

[Dwinsgames]

I never said he will be given anything

REALLY ???? what does this sound like to everyone else ??


Bell doesn't have to do anything as of right now, because as of right now he is the most talented back on our roster.


sounds to me like you have anointed him and believe he does not have to earn the job ....

my guess is that will be 99.9% of the boards opinion as well

[Master Blaster]

As far as I'm concerned, may the best man win the starting job. I applaud the fact that both Redman and Dwyer came into camp in far better shape than they ever have. Both backs are highly motivated and are determined to make an impression. At this moment in time Bell has a battle on his hands and I can't stress enough how the R.B. competition is going to make each of them better. In the end the winner will be... the Steelers.

[Dwinsgames]

As far as I'm concerned, may the best man win the starting job. I applaud the fact that both Redman and Dwyer came into camp in far better shape than they ever have. Both backs are highly motivated and are determined to make an impression. At this moment in time Bell has a battle on his hands and I can't stress enough how the R.B. competition is going to make each of them better. In the end the winner will be... the Steelers.


many of us have said pretty much the same thing and the the guy who gets the starts will have earned the starts , but at this point it is far to soon to anoint anyone as the starter

[Seven]

Dwyer is fat and has no skills. No matter how much better he plays than the other backs on our roster we need to cut him. He has no speed and no power. Mendenhall will be around much longer than Dwyer. :rolleyes:

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I don't know if he'll even make the team, but I still think John Dwyer has the most natural ability of any of the veteran runners. Hell, if he doesn't make the team at least we won't have to hear the nonsense above in the midst of him outperforming the rest of the stable like we did last year.

[Master Blaster]

The Steelers opened the season last year with Mendenhall on the PUP list, Redman was standing on the sideline in sweats with a high ankle sprain he incurred during a pre season game and the only healthy backs they had were Dwyer and Batch. That scenario proved that a team needs, at least, three capable backs to get through a full season. Redman's season was marred by the fact that he sustained high ankle sprains to both ankles and was never able to fully recover. Of the backs currently on the roster Dwyer is and has been an enigma. From a coach's perspective the most frustration thing with him is his lack of consistency and reliability. The negative cause and affect of this being he leaves the coaches scratching their heads because they're not sure what they're going to get from him. On the one hand, he can look like a feature back. On the other hand, he'll look like a guy that couldn't start in the arena league. There is only so much a coach can do to get a player ready. The ultimate responsibility falls on the player to take what he's learned and apply it. This is it for Dwyer. There is no more room for excuses. This is his last chance to secure a spot on the Steelers' roster and if he doesn't he has only himself to blame.

[steeldawg]

The Steelers opened the season last year with Mendenhall on the PUP list, Redman was standing on the sideline in sweats with a high ankle sprain he incurred during a pre season game and the only healthy backs they had were Dwyer and Batch. That scenario proved that a team needs, at least, three capable backs to get through a full season. Redman's season was marred by the fact that he sustained high ankle sprains to both ankles and was never able to fully recover. Of the backs currently on the roster Dwyer is and has been an enigma. From a coach's perspective the most frustration thing with him is his lack of consistency and reliability. The negative cause and affect of this being he leaves the coaches scratching their heads because they're not sure what they're going to get from him. On the one hand, he can look like a feature back. On the other hand, he'll look like a guy that couldn't start in the arena league. There is only so much a coach can do to get a player ready. The ultimate responsibility falls on the player to take what he's learned and apply it. This is it for Dwyer. There is no more room for excuses. This is his last chance to secure a spot on the Steelers' roster and if he doesn't he has only himself to blame.

The problem for dwyer is unless hes the starter he does have a lot of value to the team, at least with redman we can use him short yardage and goaline. Dwyer and redman where both signed to 1.3 million dollar tenders which tells me one is going to get cut. Steelers are probably not going to want to keep two1.3 million dollar backups. If had to guess whos going to stay I would say redman he just has more experience and more value. Besides they tried to trade dwyer in the offseason so we already know they are willing to part ways with him.

[Master Blaster]

The problem for dwyer is unless hes the starter he does have a lot of value to the team, at least with redman we can use him short yardage and goaline. Dwyer and redman where both signed to 1.3 million dollar tenders which tells me one is going to get cut. Steelers are probably not going to want to keep two1.3 million dollar backups. If had to guess whos going to stay I would say redman he just has more experience and more value. Besides they tried to trade dwyer in the offseason so we already know they are willing to part ways with him.
Given that the team attempted to trade him, it goes without saying that Dwyer is the one on the hot seat. It's not a reach to say that the coaching staff's patience has worn thin with him. Hence the reason why I said that this is his last chance to secure a roster spot.

[SteelerFanInStl]

If Dwyer actually cared about his NFL career, he wouldn't let himself get up to 260+ lbs in the first place.

[Master Blaster]

If Dwyer actually cared about his NFL career, he wouldn't let himself get up to 260+ lbs in the first place.
Correct.

Therein lies the #1 issue the team has had with him. As I stated above the team's patience has worn perilously thin with him. Giving that he dedicated himself to actually work out in the off season, perhaps the light has finally gone off in his head that his career path is directly related to the choices he makes. Maybe a sense of maturity, accountability and responsibility finally creeped into his thick skull. In any case, his Steelers career is on life support.

[Dwinsgames]

If Dwyer actually cared about his NFL career, he wouldn't let himself get up to 260+ lbs in the first place.

Dwyer is currently at 225-230 and in the best shape of his life .... reports of him being grossly over weight this year are unfounded and untrue ..... go to steelers.com and watch the interviews

[steeldawg]

Correct.

Therein lies the #1 issue the team has had with him. As I stated above the team's patience has worn perilously thin with him. Giving that he dedicated himself to actually work out in the off season, perhaps the light has finally gone off in his head that his career path is directly related to the choices he makes. Maybe a sense of maturity, accountability and responsibility finally creeped into his thick skull. In any case, his Steelers career is on life support.

What's funny is work ethic was one of the knocks on him coming out of college and a big reason he slipped to the 6th round, ya he came into camp In better shape but it took putting his job in jeopardy for him to do it.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Dwyer is currently at 225-230 and in the best shape of his life .... reports of him being grossly over weight this year are unfounded and untrue ..... go to steelers.com and watch the interviews

He lost 25-30 pounds before camp. That means that he was up around 250 - 260 lbs in the off season, which should never happen if you give a shit about your NFL career.

[Master Blaster]

What's funny is work ethic was one of the knocks on him coming out of college and a big reason he slipped to the 6th round, ya he came into camp In better shape but it took putting his job in jeopardy for him to do it.
It just amazes me how some players fail to see the big picture. Guys like Dwyer are devoid of the ability to recognize and appreciate how lucky they are to be in the NFL. I'm not sure what goes through Dwyer's mind when he show's up to the O.T.A.'s at 260 lbs. knowing, full well, that his girth and lack of conditioning has always been an issue and it's the first thing the coaches are going to look at. That scenario tells me that he either doesn't care, he's inherently lazy or that he takes this unique opportunity he has for granted. Right now, the sand in his hour glass is perilously low. It's up to him to stem the flow.

[steeldawg]

It just amazes me how some players fail to see the big picture. Guys like Dwyer are devoid of the ability to recognize and appreciate how lucky they are to be in the NFL. I'm not sure what goes through Dwyer's mind when he show's up to the O.T.A.'s at 260 lbs. knowing, full well, that his girth and lack of conditioning has always been an issue and it's the first thing the coaches are going to look at. That scenario tells me that he either doesn't care, he's inherently lazy or that he takes this unique opportunity he has for granted. Right now, the sand in his hour glass is perilously low. It's up to him to stem the flow. if you ask me Dwyer is out of time, he's had 3 full years to get right and at 24 years old he has no chance to be the future back. The only way Dwyer is going to start this year is if bell can't figure out the offense but that doesn't look like that will be the case.

[steeldawg]

Dwyer getting work with the wedge team on kick returns, not looking good for his bid as the starting running back. Although it may give him a chance to compete for a roster spot but he would have to beat out batch who's a special teams captain and makes less money.

[tube517]

He always has a future home out west...

[Steeldude]

Bell doesn't have to do anything as of right now, because as of right now he is the most talented back on our roster. Yes I remember mendenhall who I thought was very solid despite some major injuries, I take mendenhall over dwyer every single time. Bell will start the season as our running back you can bank on that, we didn't draft him in the second round and switch to a zone blocking scheme because we thought he would be a nice back up fpr jonathan dwyer!

So basically you are saying Bell doesn't need to put forth any effort. Your posts get more and more absurd as time goes on. Please explain how you know Bell is the most talented RB on the roster without having played a single down. This is almost as hilarious as when you said Wallace doesn't need to try to catch passes...lol.

I asked what has he done, not what the Steeler have done. This is the same question you ask of other players you dislike for personal reasons. You still avoid it. Why?

Remember this...

Steeldude: You are the GM. You just signed a WR to a multi-million dollar contract. Do you expect him to try to catch every pass thrown his way?

Steeldawg: No I dont

[steeldawg]

So basically you are saying Bell doesn't need to put forth any effort. Your posts get more and more absurd as time goes on. Please explain how you know Bell is the most talented RB on the roster without having played a single down. This is almost as hilarious as when you said Wallace doesn't need to try to catch passes...lol.

I asked what has he done, not what the Steeler have done. This is the same question you ask of other players you dislike for personal reasons. You still avoid it. Why?

Remember this...

Steeldude: You are the GM. You just signed a WR to a multi-million dollar contract. Do you expect him to try to catch every pass thrown his way?

Steeldawg: No I dont

First of all I don't appreciate you misquoting and mis representing my quotes.

In reference to Wallace I said I don't expect him to catch jump balls in traffic because that's not what kind of receiver he is and that's not what teams pay him to do. Its just as absurd to say we are going to throw jump balls to many sanders and Antonio brown and expect success.

On Bell I said he doesn't have to do anything to win the starting job because he was drafted to start. You sit there and try to make fun of me for it while completely ignoring the fact that its exactly what has happened so far. Bell has been with the first team since the start of camp and he is starting the first preseason game. Anybody who doesn't have their head up their ass can clearly see that the steelers expect Le'veon Bell to start and that hes the most talented back on the roster.

[steeldawg]

So basically you are saying Bell doesn't need to put forth any effort. Your posts get more and more absurd as time goes on. Please explain how you know Bell is the most talented RB on the roster without having played a single down. This is almost as hilarious as when you said Wallace doesn't need to try to catch passes...lol.

I asked what has he done, not what the Steeler have done. This is the same question you ask of other players you dislike for personal reasons. You still avoid it. Why?

Remember this...

Steeldude: You are the GM. You just signed a WR to a multi-million dollar contract. Do you expect him to try to catch every pass thrown his way?

Steeldawg: No I dont

Let me ask you a question in regards to how I know Le'veon Bell is the most talented RB on the roster. Do you really think the steelers drafted a guy in the second round who they thought was less talented than jonathan dwyer, Issac Redmon, and Baron Batch? Completely ridiculous! Fact: the steelers where looking to UPGRADE their rushing attack, took bell. FACT: Steelers looking for a 3 down back who can finish games, took bell. Fact: Steelers looking to run in a zone blocking scheme, took bell.

[Texasteel]

Hopefully this argument will take one step closer to coming to an end tonight. Bell seems like he has been putting in the effort that we all had been hoping he would, and perhaps will show the NFL ability that many of us thought he had. No I do not think the starting job was his the day he was drafted, or even at the start of training camp, the Steelers just don't work that way. He can IMO, Put his name at the top of the list, in pencil, with a strong showing. Here is wishing the best for the young man. Personally, I am hoping for a strong showing from all our RB.

[Dwinsgames]

Hopefully this argument will take one step closer to coming to an end tonight. Bell seems like he has been putting in the effort that we all had been hoping he would, and perhaps will show the NFL ability that many of us thought he had. No I do not think the starting job was his the day he was drafted, or even at the start of training camp, the Steelers just don't work that way. He can IMO, Put his name at the top of the list, in pencil, with a strong showing. Here is wishing the best for the young man. Personally, I am hoping for a strong showing from all our RB.


THIS ....

I think we ALL want him to win the starting job , but the key word is WIN it ....

[Chidi29]

Hopefully this argument will take one step closer to coming to an end tonight. Bell seems like he has been putting in the effort that we all had been hoping he would, and perhaps will show the NFL ability that many of us thought he had. No I do not think the starting job was his the day he was drafted, or even at the start of training camp, the Steelers just don't work that way. He can IMO, Put his name at the top of the list, in pencil, with a strong showing. Here is wishing the best for the young man. Personally, I am hoping for a strong showing from all our RB.

If by "one step closer" you mean "one step closer and then 100 back" then yeah, that's probably what'll happen.

[steeldawg]

Hopefully this argument will take one step closer to coming to an end tonight. Bell seems like he has been putting in the effort that we all had been hoping he would, and perhaps will show the NFL ability that many of us thought he had. No I do not think the starting job was his the day he was drafted, or even at the start of training camp, the Steelers just don't work that way. He can IMO, Put his name at the top of the list, in pencil, with a strong showing. Here is wishing the best for the young man. Personally, I am hoping for a strong showing from all our RB.

Well just look at the timeline steelers try to trade dwyer before the draft unsuccessfully.
Steelers switch to zone block scheme.
Steelers draft bell in the second round who runs the zone block scheme.
Bell immediately put in the mix for the top spot before camp
Bell given the majority of reps with the first team from the beginning of camp.
Bell to start First preseason game.

If that is not drafting someone to start then I don't know what it's supposed to look like. If they don't plan on him being the starter they sure are wasting a lot of first team reps don't you think.

[Chidi29]

Side note: There's been no indication Bell will start. Just that he'll play with first team.

[steeldawg]

Side note: There's been no indication Bell will start. Just that he'll play with first team.

Oh I thought he was starting, who are they going to start redman? I just figured in the first preseason game if he was playing with the ones he would almost have to start because they would nt be out there very long.

[fansince'76]

If by "one step closer" you mean "one step closer and then 100 back" then yeah, that's probably what'll happen.

How so? :noidea:

[Chidi29]

How so? :noidea:

Because I don't think we could agree on the color of the sky in this thread.

[fansince'76]

Because I don't think we could agree on the color of the sky in this thread.

:chuckle:

Yeah, I see what you mean. What will further complicate things is if we get another "preseason fool's gold" performance out of Redman (the kind that started the "suddenness and glide" BS about 4 years ago). Redman tends to do great in preseason against 3rd stringers and guys who'll be washing cars in a month's time.

[steeldawg]

Because I don't think we could agree on the color of the sky in this thread.

Im not trying to disagree but I think the idea that we spent a second round pick on a guy to back up jonathan dwyer is absurd. I think they drafted him to start and they fully expect him to be the starter week one.

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:chuckle:

Yeah, I see what you mean. What will further complicate things is if we get another "preseason fool's gold" performance out of Redman (the kind that started the "suddenness and glide" BS about 4 years ago).

You probably will because redman is very good when he is fresh.

[polamalubeast]

Redman is a good backup,but not a good starter

I hope than Bell is the real deal!

[steeldawg]

Redman is a good backup,but not a good starter

I hope than Bell is the real deal!

Ya Redman is not a starter and certainly not a three down back like the Steelers are looking for. Bell is the TRUTH he will impress!

[polamalubeast]

Ya Redman is not a starter and certainly not a three down back like the Steelers are looking for. Bell is the TRUTH he will impress!

I hope!

[Chidi29]

Oh I thought he was starting, who are they going to start redman? I just figured in the first preseason game if he was playing with the ones he would almost have to start because they would nt be out there very long.

Well Tomlin didn't announce anyone at his presser. But word just came in that it's Redman. Starters will play 10-12 snaps. Subject to change, of course.

[steeldawg]

Well Tomlin didn't announce anyone at his presser. But word just came in that it's Redman. Starters will play 10-12 snaps. Subject to change, of course.

Ya I figured if it wasn't bell it would be redman but if its redman and bell is going to get snaps with the first team that means redman will only get like 5 or 6 plays and bell we will probably see for at least a quarter.

[Nadroj 20]

Not that it matters, but..

366314401386610693

[Texasteel]

Well just look at the timeline steelers try to trade dwyer before the draft unsuccessfully.
Steelers switch to zone block scheme.
Steelers draft bell in the second round who runs the zone block scheme.
Bell immediately put in the mix for the top spot before camp
Bell given the majority of reps with the first team from the beginning of camp.
Bell to start First preseason game.

If that is not drafting someone to start then I don't know what it's supposed to look like. If they don't plan on him being the starter they sure are wasting a lot of first team reps don't you think.
camp.

If Dryer is clearly out playing Bell the thought that " Well, we don't want to start Dryer, we just tried to trade him, does not make sense to me. Even if we drafted Bell for that scheme, IMO, he still has to out produce the other backs to win the starting position. I have no doubt that they drafted Bell hoping that he would be able to start, but he still has to produce at the position. How many 1st rounders for the Steelers did not start that year, or the second year, or ever. I'm glad he is getting the majority or the reps, he will learn more, and faster, but IMO he will need to actually do the job on the field. The key word is preseason.......... I think Bell can and will do well, and win the starter position, but I don't think it has always been a lock or is right now. Bell still has to show he can do the job,,,,,,,,,, its up to him.

[Dwinsgames]

wonder just what is wrong with Bells knee ?

any word other than nothing much from Tomlin ?

[Nadroj 20]

wonder just what is wrong with Bells knee ?

any word other than nothing much from Tomlin ?

Just sounds like soreness really. Just precautionary to sit him. They don't seem to worried about it so that's a plus,

[Dwinsgames]

Just sounds like soreness really. Just precautionary to sit him. They don't seem to worried about it so that's a plus,


lets hope , would hate to see another high round pick sit half or more of the year due to injury ( Decastro last year )

[Steeldude]

Just sounds like soreness really. Just precautionary to sit him. They don't seem to worried about it so that's a plus,

Soreness already? How will he be 2 games into the season?

[Nadroj 20]

Soreness already? How will he be 2 games into the season?

That's a legitimate worry. If he has lingering knee issues then how many games will he have to sit out because of soreness?

I really hope that's not the case though and it won't become a long term concern.

[steeldawg]

That's a legitimate worry. If he has lingering knee issues then how many games will he have to sit out because of soreness?

I really hope that's not the case though and it won't become a long term concern.

I think its just precautionary because yesterday bell was pumped to play no mention of the knee.

[Nadroj 20]

I think its just precautionary because yesterday bell was pumped to play no mention of the knee.

This would be my gut thought as well.

[Steeldude]

First of all I don't appreciate you misquoting and mis representing my quotes.

In reference to Wallace I said I don't expect him to catch jump balls in traffic because that's not what kind of receiver he is and that's not what teams pay him to do. Its just as absurd to say we are going to throw jump balls to many sanders and Antonio brown and expect success.

On Bell I said he doesn't have to do anything to win the starting job because he was drafted to start. You sit there and try to make fun of me for it while completely ignoring the fact that its exactly what has happened so far. Bell has been with the first team since the start of camp and he is starting the first preseason game. Anybody who doesn't have their head up their ass can clearly see that the steelers expect Le'veon Bell to start and that hes the most talented back on the roster.

I didn't misrepresent. You are aware of what you write?

Again, no one said the Steelers are going to throw jump balls to Brown and Sanders. Why do you keep bringing it up. You are saying Brown and Sanders don't have to jump for passes because it's not their skill set. So if the ball is high they should just let it go, right?


I don't expect him to catch jump balls in traffic

Do you realize how utterly absurd that is? I expect every WR on the team to attempt to catch everything thrown their way.


On Bell I said he doesn't have to do anything to win the starting job because he was drafted to start

In other words he doesn't have to try. Giving players a starting position based solely on draft position is moronic at best.

Prove he is the most talented NFL RB on the roster. They drafted Bell to compete for the starting position.

Your entire outlook on players has to do with your personal feelings, not abilities or what's best for the team.

[steeldawg]

I didn't misrepresent. You are aware of what you write?

Again, no one said the Steelers are going to throw jump balls to Brown and Sanders. Why do you keep bringing it up. You are saying Brown and Sanders don't have to jump for passes because it's not their skill set. So if the ball is high they should just let it go, right?



Do you realize how utterly absurd that is? I expect every WR on the team to attempt to catch everything thrown their way.



In other words he doesn't have to try. Giving players a starting position based solely on draft position is moronic at best.

Prove he is the most talented NFL RB on the roster. They drafted Bell to compete for the starting position.

Your entire outlook on players has to do with your personal feelings, not abilities or what's best for the team.

you did misquote in the Wallace quote I never said I don't expect him to try and catch it I just don't expect him to make jump ball catches in traffic its not his game.

The bell quote you took out of context I wasn't talking about effort or playing, I was referring to him being drafted to start meaning its his job to lose he doesn't have to win a starting job because he was drafted to start.

[steeldawg]

I didn't misrepresent. You are aware of what you write?

Again, no one said the Steelers are going to throw jump balls to Brown and Sanders. Why do you keep bringing it up. You are saying Brown and Sanders don't have to jump for passes because it's not their skill set. So if the ball is high they should just let it go, right?



Do you realize how utterly absurd that is? I expect every WR on the team to attempt to catch everything thrown their way.



In other words he doesn't have to try. Giving players a starting position based solely on draft position is moronic at best.

Prove he is the most talented NFL RB on the roster. They drafted Bell to compete for the starting position.

Your entire outlook on players has to do with your personal feelings, not abilities or what's best for the team.

they are not giving him a position based on draft position its based on talent and talent was the reason hes taken in that position. Prove hes not the most talented rb on the roster. They did not draft bell for competition they drafted him to be the starting back on this team. Your just mad because your boy dwyer is on his way out the door, and my outlook on players has been dead on, get over it! Dwyer sucks and will be cut and le'veon bell will be the starter.

[Nadroj 20]

The Seahawks signed Matt Flynn last year to start. Look how that turned out.


Just because you do something with a particular thought, doesn't mean it will happen. Seattle gave Flynn a 3 year $19 million contract. They had all intentions to start him, but he lost the job.

[steeldawg]

The Seahawks signed Matt Flynn last year to start. Look how that turned out.


Just because you do something with a particular thought, doesn't mean it will happen. Seattle gave Flynn a 3 year $19 million contract. They had all intentions to start him, but he lost the job.

because Russell Wilson is a better talent, le'veon bell is a more talented running back than dwyer don't you agree? You know hat your getting with dwyer and redman and its not very good so why would you draft a rb in the second you don't feel is more talented than those 2.

[Nadroj 20]

because Russell Wilson is a better talent, le'veon bell is a more talented running back than dwyer don't you agree? You know hat your getting with dwyer and redman and its not very good so why would you draft a rb in the second you don't feel is more talented than those 2.

They didn't know that.

Honestly we can not tell for sure how good Bell is either. That's everyones point. We don't know and we STILL don't know. On paper he looks better and we used a 2nd round pick so I hope he is better. But I refuse to say now whether or not he is our savior at RB. I think it is premature and right now all we can do is speculate.

And this debate isn't about why we would draft Bell in the second round. It's about Bell needing to PROVE himself. Simple as that.

Should he win the job? You bet. But I can promise you, the Steelers did not write him in as the starter the day after the draft. They, like myself, are waiting to see if he pans out. Which he should, but still have to wait and see.

[steeldawg]

They didn't know that.

Honestly we can not tell for sure how good Bell is either. That's everyones point. We don't know and we STILL don't know. On paper he looks better and we used a 2nd round pick so I hope he is better. But I refuse to say now whether or not he is our savior at RB. I think it is premature and right now all we can do is speculate.

And this debate isn't about why we would draft Bell in the second round. It's about Bell needing to PROVE himself. Simple as that.

Should he win the job? You bet. But I can promise you, the Steelers did not write him in as the starter the day after the draft. They, like myself, are waiting to see if he pans out. Which he should, but still have to wait and see.

I would disagree the fact that he has been getting majority first team reps from day one means they did pencil him in they trying to get him ready to go for the season. If dwyer was gonna start he would be getting the reps instaed of playing the wedge on kickoffs.

[Dwinsgames]

I would disagree.


yes , you would .... because that is what you do best

[Nadroj 20]

I would disagree the fact that he has been getting majority first team reps from day one means they did pencil him in they trying to get him ready to go for the season. If dwyer was gonna start he would be getting the reps instaed of playing the wedge on kickoffs.

You don't think they were just testing the waters with him? And quit talking about Dwyer for crying out loud it could be anyone, not just Dwyer.

[steeldawg]

You don't think they were just testing the waters with him? And quit talking about Dwyer for crying out loud it could be anyone, not just Dwyer.

Well redman is not going to be the starting back and neither is howling no way no chance also it is a dwyer thread. no if you didnt plan on him stating you wouldn't be taking reps from your starter immediately especially after implementing a new scheme, you would want him getting the bulk of the carries to learn it.

[Nadroj 20]

I'm done basically agreeing with someone except for one small point and continuing running around in circles.

Bell doesn't have to earn anything. That's the way this team is they assign guys to starting jobs long before they ever put on a game uniform.

Have a good night steeldawg.

[Craic]

Taking yourself out of the game before you even get on the field isn't a way to win the starting job. I didn't get a chance to watch the other two, but Howling seems to want the gig pretty bad. I'd say going into next week, he gets top spot.

- - - Updated - - -

Taking yourself out of the game before you even get on the field isn't a way to win the starting job. I didn't get a chance to watch the other two, but Howling seems to want the gig pretty bad. I'd say going into next week, he gets top spot.

[fansince'76]

I'm done basically agreeing with someone except for one small point and continuing running around in circles.

It's why I don't even bother...

[Chidi29]

If by "one step closer" you mean "one step closer and then 100 back" then yeah, that's probably what'll happen.



...

[Nadroj 20]

...

I know. I'm not sure what I was thinking.

[Steeldude]

they are not giving him a position based on draft position its based on talent and talent was the reason hes taken in that position. Prove hes not the most talented rb on the roster. They did not draft bell for competition they drafted him to be the starting back on this team. Your just mad because your boy dwyer is on his way out the door, and my outlook on players has been dead on, get over it! Dwyer sucks and will be cut and le'veon bell will be the starter.

He hasn't shown any talent yet in the NFL. You are saying give him the starting position based on being a 2nd round pick.

You do know why they draft players, right?

I don't care if Dwyer is cut or sat on bench to rot. The difference between you and I is you base your outlook on personal feelings. For me it's whoever performs the best. If Bell performs the best then he should be given the starting position. What if Bell plays horribly? Do you still give him the starting position?

[st33lersguy]

Dwyer did not help himself at all last night, in fact he probably got surpassed by Stephens-Howling

[Spike]

well I know one thing, show me some more Stephens-Howling and dump Batch and Dwyer

[Nadroj 20]

Stephens-Howling is playing like a guy who wants his reps.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Dwyer did not help himself at all last night, in fact he probably got surpassed by Stephens-Howling

I agree. Dwyer didn't show anything at all last night and neither did Batch, other than a good pick up on a blitz.

[steeldawg]

He hasn't shown any talent yet in the NFL. You are saying give him the starting position based on being a 2nd round pick.

You do know why they draft players, right?

I don't care if Dwyer is cut or sat on bench to rot. The difference between you and I is you base your outlook on personal feelings. For me it's whoever performs the best. If Bell performs the best then he should be given the starting position. What if Bell plays horribly? Do you still give him the starting position?

Yes im sure the steelers took him in the second round and said lets see if this kids got talent and if he doesn't we'll just cut him. They went out and found the most ready to start back they could find who fits their scheme. If he plays horribly like what? the terrible dwyer redman combo last season? or just doesn't know how to play football? Im not basing this on emotion, I'm basing on the variables that I have stated over and over again in this thread. I will ask you, what do you make of bell getting the majority of the first team reps since the beginning of camp and the steelers being very cautious with him. The reason the steelers got him in the second round is because they wanted a guy who could come in and start, I didn't say he should start just cause hes a second round pick! If we had a starting caliber back on the roster with young guys we had already there would have been no reason to go out and get bell but we don't we have dwyer, redman, howlings and batch none of which is a starting caliber running back!

[Dwinsgames]

Yes im sure the steelers took him in the second round and said lets see if this kids got talent and if he doesn't we'll just cut him.




NOBODY said that and you want to go and call people out for misquoting .

[NJarhead]

Mission: failed

[steeldawg]

NOBODY said that and you want to go and call people out for misquoting .

Uh it was completely hypothetical that's why I didn't put anything in quotations, it simply illustrates that the steelers know he has talent and that hes ready to start that's why they took him. If you don't have a starting back you don't draft a guy who may or may not be able to start you have a to draft a guy who is ready to go.

[Nadroj 20]

Uh it was completely hypothetical that's why I didn't put anything in quotations, it simply illustrates that the steelers know he has talent and that hes ready to start that's why they took him. If you don't have a starting back you don't draft a guy who may or may not be able to start you have a to draft a guy who is ready to go.

Then explain to us the concept of a bust. If teams simply just have to draft a guy who is ready to go then why do so many players fail in the NFL? If the team needs a starter you make it seem like it is so easy to just pick a starter from the draft and go with that guy.

You don't draft a guy who may or may not be able to start? :lol: How in the world can someone determine that before they ever play in the NFL? You can get a decent judgement but look how many players people thought could make an impact and never did. It's happened many many times in ALL sports.

[steeldawg]

Then explain to us the concept of a bust. If teams simply just have to draft a guy who is ready to go then why do so many players fail in the NFL? If the team needs a starter you make it seem like it is so easy to just pick a starter from the draft and go with that guy.

You don't draft a guy who may or may not be able to start? :lol: How in the world can someone determine that before they ever play in the NFL? You can get a decent judgement but look how many players people thought could make an impact and never did. It's happened many many times in ALL sports.

Not everyone pans out but busts are rarely determined in training camp, Yes if you don't have a starter you either draft one or get a free agent, you don't just put the same crappy guys out there and hope for the best. wether he pans out is still to be determined im not saying he will or he wont im saying he is going to start! You have to look at the situation, he is the only starting caliber back on the roster. Im not sure why the statement is funny, If you have no starter on you roster why would you draft a guy your not sure is a starter.

[Nadroj 20]

Not everyone pans out but busts are rarely determined in training camp, Yes if you don't have a starter you either draft one or get a free agent, you don't just put the same crappy guys out there and hope for the best. wether he pans out is still to be determined im not saying he will or he wont im saying he is going to start! You have to look at the situation, he is the only starting caliber back on the roster.

I understand if we don't have a quality starter, we have to try to draft one. You want to base everything off last season and give nobody else a chance though. Because they sucked last year it is impossible for them to come into camp and compete for a chance to start?

Once again I'm just saying how the Steelers operate is that it's going to be a fair competition. I think Bell will start. Based off out performing the other competition.

We will see.

[steeldawg]

I understand if we don't have a quality starter, we have to try to draft one. You want to base everything off last season and give nobody else a chance though. Because they sucked last year it is impossible for them to come into camp and compete for a chance to start?

Once again I'm just saying how the Steelers operate is that it's going to be a fair competition. I think Bell will start. Based off out performing the other competition.

We will see.

Its not just last year the running backs on the roster are not rookies. Issac redman is a good short yardage back but he's not a guy who's gonna get 20-30 carries, with his running style he will be dead by the end of the year. Howlings nice change of pace home run hitter but a 5'7'' 180 not going to survive a season as a starter. Jonathan dwyer just not very good going into his 4th year and still cant figure things out, not a starter. Baron Batch good special teamer but bad vision mediocre speed below average power will never be a starter. These guys have been in the league for years and are not considered starters they are role players.

[Nadroj 20]

Its not just last year the running backs on the roster are not rookies. Issac redman is a good short yardage back but he's not a guy who's gonna get 20-30 carries, with his running style he will be dead by the end of the year. Howlings nice change of pace home run hitter but a 5'7'' 180 not going to survive a season as a starter. Jonathan dwyer just not very good going into his 4th year and still cant figure things out, not a starter. Baron Batch good special teamer but bad vision mediocre speed below average power will never be a starter.

I'm just curious what if we would have drafted someone else? Would they automatically be the starter too because of the reason you just said, or do you think Bell is just that good of a talent?

Serious question and not at all a trap I'm just wondering if you would feel this way about anyone we drafted.

[steeldawg]

I'm just curious what if we would have drafted someone else? Would they automatically be the starter too because of the reason you just said, or do you think Bell is just that good of a talent?

Serious question and not at all a trap I'm just wondering if you would feel this way about anyone we drafted.

Yes that high in the draft, because we where drafting the most nfl ready guy we could get not to mention a guy who is familiar with the zone scheme that was not a coincidence.

[Nadroj 20]

Yes that high in the draft, because we where drafting the most nfl ready guy we could get not to mention a guy who is familiar with the zone scheme that was not a coincidence.

Ok, but you still don't want to admit that just because we do something for a certain reason doesn't mean it will work out that way?

[steeldawg]

Ok, but you still don't want to admit that just because we do something for a certain reason doesn't mean it will work out that way?

not true I even said in this thread the job is bells unless he comes in and cant understand the offense or falls completely on his face, but it doesn't look like either will be the case. It still doesnt change that fact that we drafted him to be the starter.

[ALLD]

We would be no better off if Mendy were still on the roster.

[steeldawg]

We would be no better off if Mendy were still on the roster.

If mendy was on the roster that would mean we would of resigned him, he woud be the starter and we probably would not have bell.

[Chidi29]

This thread.

http://mrbarlow.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/going-around-in-circles.png

[steeldawg]

This thread.

http://mrbarlow.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/going-around-in-circles.png

That's ok the other threads are boring right now anyways.

[Chidi29]

So this is the First Take of threads?

Nothing going on so let's just scream to make it seem interesting?

[steeldawg]

So this is the First Take of threads?

Nothing going on so let's just scream to make it seem interesting?

Its better than breaking down the sack against ramon foster or discussing speaths foot injury.

[Texasteel]

Didn't get to watch the game, but from what I have heard we may have part of one answer. If Bell is not ready to start opening day, the preferred option may not be Redman, or Dwyer.

[Chidi29]

Its better than breaking down the sack against ramon foster or discussing speaths foot injury.

Gotta disagree with that.

[steeldawg]

Gotta disagree with that.

Oh! So you want to start another arguement! Derail the thread! lol j/k

[Nadroj 20]

So this is the First Take of threads?

Nothing going on so let's just scream to make it seem interesting?

You've been in threads like this before too, not really sure why it's such a big deal.

[Chidi29]

I just found a good time to use that picture. :chuckle:

Also, I'm a giant hypocrite. So there's that, I suppose.

[Steeldude]

Yes im sure the steelers took him in the second round and said lets see if this kids got talent and if he doesn't we'll just cut him. They went out and found the most ready to start back they could find who fits their scheme. If he plays horribly like what? the terrible dwyer redman combo last season? or just doesn't know how to play football? Im not basing this on emotion, I'm basing on the variables that I have stated over and over again in this thread. I will ask you, what do you make of bell getting the majority of the first team reps since the beginning of camp and the steelers being very cautious with him. The reason the steelers got him in the second round is because they wanted a guy who could come in and start, I didn't say he should start just cause hes a second round pick! If we had a starting caliber back on the roster with young guys we had already there would have been no reason to go out and get bell but we don't we have dwyer, redman, howlings and batch none of which is a starting caliber running back!

Again, you failed to answer another question. That's a very common theme with you.

What if Bell plays horribly? Do you still give him the starting position?

[steeldawg]

Again, you failed to answer another question. That's a very common theme with you.

What if Bell plays horribly? Do you still give him the starting position?

What is horribly in training camp? They are simply looking a guys ability to grasp the scheme, they already know his physical talent. You are acting like the steelers have never seen this guy play football before, Yes I will say if le'veon bell suddenly forgets how to play football he wont be the starter. It still has no bearing on why bell was drafted, he was drafted to be the starter and the future of this team. I can tell you this also if another back has a great camp and bell has a mediocre camp, bell is still going to start. Steelers have already stated they do not want a running back by committee they want a 3 down back. Todd Haley already called Bell a 3 down back and Colbert called him nfl back who makes nfl type runs so that tells you what they were thinking when they drafted him. Im tired of doing hypothetical situations, I know what I see, If you cant see that the steelers drafted bell to be the starter of this team you are either not following steelers camp or you just don't want to believe it. Tomlin holds the guy out of a preseason game for a minor knee bruise because he "wants him to start his career under optimum health conditions" this tells you all you need to know about how valuable this guy is to our offense.

[Dwinsgames]

when I look at the draft I look at getting 7 guys who can compete for starting spots on the roster be it day 1 year 1 or year 2 but to compete from day 1 ....if Colbert and company do not look at it in the same manner they have failed before they ever started the process ...

does that mean we pick up 7 starters year 1 ... HELL NO

does that mean all 7 guys selected start by year 2 ... HELL NO

does that mean all 7 guys make the team year 1 ...HELL NO

the best laid plans of mice and men

[Steeldude]

What is horribly in training camp? They are simply looking a guys ability to grasp the scheme, they already know his physical talent. You are acting like the steelers have never seen this guy play football before, Yes I will say if le'veon bell suddenly forgets how to play football he wont be the starter. It still has no bearing on why bell was drafted, he was drafted to be the starter and the future of this team. I can tell you this also if another back has a great camp and bell has a mediocre camp, bell is still going to start. Steelers have already stated they do not want a running back by committee they want a 3 down back. Todd Haley already called Bell a 3 down back and Colbert called him nfl back who makes nfl type runs so that tells you what they were thinking when they drafted him. Im tired of doing hypothetical situations, I know what I see, If you cant see that the steelers drafted bell to be the starter of this team you are either not following steelers camp or you just don't want to believe it. Tomlin holds the guy out of a preseason game for a minor knee bruise because he "wants him to start his career under optimum health conditions" this tells you all you need to know about how valuable this guy is to our offense.

Ah, so now you are saying pre-season means nothing in terms of seeing who should be starting.

I'll ask again. What if Bell plays horribly? Do you still give him the starting position? It's a simple yes or no answer.

I don't care what Haley or Colbert think. I am asking you. Besides, the Steelers thought playing a WR at QB for 5+ years was a great idea. How did that work out?


Tomlin holds the guy out of a preseason game for a minor knee bruise because he "wants him to start his career under optimum health conditions" this tells you all you need to know about how valuable this guy is to our offense

Using tha logic means BR isn't valuable to the offense. He has a bum knee, but still played.

[steeldawg]

Ah, so now you are saying pre-season means nothing in terms of seeing who should be starting.

I'll ask again. What if Bell plays horribly? Do you still give him the starting position? It's a simple yes or no answer.



I don't care what Haley or Colbert think. I am asking you. Besides, the Steelers thought playing a WR at QB for 5+ years was a great idea. How did that work out?



Using tha logic means BR isn't valuable to the offense. He has a bum knee, but still played.

The debate is if bell was drafted to be the starter what does it matter what I think. I don't know what you mean by him playing horribly? If he doesn't have a great rushing performance in limited snaps and limited package then yes I still start him, if he goes out there and can't play football then no he doesn't start. Who cares about that anyway the point is he was drafted to start that was the mindset behind drafting bell. Of course Ben is valuable but qb we timing is huge, also a banged up knee is a little more significant for a Rb.

[Dwinsgames]

careful talking out of both sides of your mouth Steeldawg you just might talk out of the middle of it ... oh wait you just did

- - - Updated - - -


If he doesn't have a great rushing performance in limited snaps and limited package then yes I still start him, if he goes out there and can't play football then no he doesn't start. Who cares about that anyway the point is he was drafted to start that was the mindset behind drafting bell. Of course Ben is valuable but qb we timing is huge, also a banged up knee is a little more significant for a Rb.


does that not mean he has to earn the job ( what 99.9% of us have been saying all along )

[Craic]

Steeldawg: the job is Bell's to lose.

Everyone else: Bell has to earn it.


The day this team brings in a guy from the draft and immediately says, "here, it's your job unless you suck too much," is the day Dan Rooney fires three-quarters of the organization, including the coaches. Every first round draft pick has to earn the starting job, it's not given to them and then told "don't lose it."

Figured I might as well hop on the merry-go-around since everyone else is having so much fun.

[LLT]

Steeldawg: the job is Bell's to lose.

Everyone else: Bell has to earn it.


The day this team brings in a guy from the draft and immediately says, "here, it's your job unless you suck too much," is the day Dan Rooney fires three-quarters of the organization, including the coaches. Every first round draft pick has to earn the starting job, it's not given to them and then told "don't lose it."

Figured I might as well hop on the merry-go-around since everyone else is having so much fun.

LOL...welcome to the Asylum. Please place all logic, critical thinking, and facts at the door before entering.

[steeldawg]

You all are going to sit here and tell me this hasn't been bells job to lose from day 1? Let me ask you that if we didn't draft bell to be the starter then why did we draft him? Why in the offseason did we get howlings from free agency instead of a starting caliber back if we were planning on sitting our draft pick behind him? The steelers have already called him nfl back before he even stepped on the field they have put him with the first team from the beginning of camp. You are honestly going to tell me that the steelers plan in an effort to upgrade our running game was to draft a guy to see if he could compete with Isaac Redman? Talk about leaving critical thinking at the door! How about this I have laid all the facts on why bell was drafted to start, why don't you lay out all the facts that points to he was just brought in to compete.

[Nadroj 20]

LOL...welcome to the Asylum. Please place all logic, critical thinking, and facts at the door before entering.

And sanity, don't forget your sanity because it's better to know where it is then losing it!!

[steeldawg]

careful talking out of both sides of your mouth Steeldawg you just might talk out of the middle of it ... oh wait you just did

- - - Updated - - -




does that not mean he has to earn the job ( what 99.9% of us have been saying all along )

Ya in the instance our second round draft pick who we scouted, shows up to camp and forgets how to play the game hes been playing his entire life.

[Count Steeler]

Ya in the instance our second round draft pick who we scouted, shows up to camp and forgets how to play the game hes been playing his entire life.

NFL >>>>>>>>>>> College. At the very best, the draft is 50/50. You seem to want to say that the Steelers were 100% sure that Bell would be the starter. I guess that is proven over the history of the draft then? All Steelers picks in the first or second round are drafted to be starters? In their first year? In their first game?

The Steelers don't have a magic crystal ball. They draft BPA for the most part and they still crap out more than they succeed. We are all hopeful that Bell succeeds, but he still has not played 1 down, preseason or regular season, in the NFL.

My concern is that we did not pickup any depth on the OLine, and that is going to be the demise of the running game, more so than who starts. I hope we have a healthy line this year, but history dictates a different tale.

[steeldawg]

NFL >>>>>>>>>>> College. At the very best, the draft is 50/50. You seem to want to say that the Steelers were 100% sure that Bell would be the starter. I guess that is proven over the history of the draft then? All Steelers picks in the first or second round are drafted to be starters? In their first year? In their first game?

The Steelers don't have a magic crystal ball. They draft BPA for the most part and they still crap out more than they succeed. We are all hopeful that Bell succeeds, but he still has not played 1 down, preseason or regular season, in the NFL.

My concern is that we did not pickup any depth on the OLine, and that is going to be the demise of the running game, more so than who starts. I hope we have a healthy line this year, but history dictates a different tale.

You have to look at our running back situation, and the steelers said in the offseason a goal was to upgrade the running game so they drafted bell to start. The draft is a gamble I never said they drafted him knowing he was going to be a great running back I simply said they drafted him to be the starter.

[LLT]

Ya in the instance our second round draft pick who we scouted, shows up to camp and forgets how to play the game hes been playing his entire life.

Steeldawg ....may I introduce you to...

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/sweed1_500.jpg

[Shoes]

I think Dwyer's mission will have to continue on another team.

[Count Steeler]

Steeldawg ....may I introduce you to...

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/sweed1_500.jpg

And that only begins to scratch the surface.

[Nadroj 20]

They drafted him because he has the potential to start. They did not write him in as the starter the day after the draft. I'd be willing to bet Mike Tomlin himself would tell us the same thing.

[steeldawg]

They drafted him because he has the potential to start. They did not write him in as the starter the day after the draft. I'd be willing to bet Mike Tomlin himself would tell us the same thing.

Hes been in the starter role since the draft, of course tomlin will say its an open competition.

[Count Steeler]

Hes been in the starter role since the draft, of course tomlin will say its an open competition.

Not according to steelers.com, but what do they know.

[steeldawg]

Not according to steelers.com, but what do they know.

Ya that depth chart means nothing considering hes getting almost all the reps with the ones a spot you would have your starter in. You don't give all your reps to someone throughout training camp and start someone else especially with a new blocking scheme.

[Count Steeler]

Ya that depth chart means nothing considering hes getting almost all the reps with the ones a spot you would have your starter in.

Ok Steelers fans, please ignore the official website of the Pittsburgh Steelers. If you want the real scoop on the Steelers, please consult with steeldawg. And as fortune would have it, we have him here on our forum.

[steeldawg]

Ok Steelers fans, please ignore the official website of the Pittsburgh Steelers. If you want the real scoop on the Steelers, please consult with steeldawg. And as fortune would have it, we have him here on our forum.

Yep steelers fans Isaac Redman is the starter it was the steelers plan all along for redman to start because he is so good. When the steelers said upgrade their run game what they meant was Isaac redman is our starter.

[Count Steeler]

Yep steelers fans Isaac Redman is the starter it was the steelers plan all along for redman to start because he is so good. When the steelers said upgrade their run game what they meant was Isaac redman is our starter.


Book it folks, you heard it here first.

[LLT]

Yep steelers fans Isaac Redman is the starter it was the steelers plan all along for redman to start because he is so good. When the steelers said upgrade their run game what they meant was Isaac redman is our starter.

Really?...The fact that EVERYONE has tried to logically explain to you that Bell "may" become the starter, but will not be handed the position...and the dismanteling of every argument you have presented...still doesnt make you think, "Wait a minute, maybe I'm being obtuse"?

[steeldawg]

Really?...The fact that EVERYONE has tried to logically explain to you that Bell "may" become the starter, but will not be handed the position...and the dismanteling of every argument you have presented...still doesnt make you think, "Wait a minute, maybe I'm being obtuse"?


Dismanteling my argument how? Bell has been in the starter position since he entered camp how can you dismantle that? I asked for anyone to layout the facts that show bell was brought in to just compete, to explain the offseason moves and the handling of bell in training camp. So far nobody has addressed any of those things, everyone chooses to just ignore everything that points to bell being the starter and just say "hes got to earn it" which doesn't really have to do with the fact that he was drafted to be the starter and not only the starter but the future back for this team. Please show me how my argument was dismantled.

[Dwinsgames]

Really?...The fact that EVERYONE has tried to logically explain to you that Bell "may" become the starter, but will not be handed the position...and the dismanteling of every argument you have presented...still doesnt make you think, "Wait a minute, maybe I'm being obtuse"?


no maybe's about it

[Nadroj 20]

I'm coming from a coaches perspective, which is no matter what I want out of a guy or what I think he can do, I have to wait and see consistently (meaning not just training camp and ZERO preseason games) that a player can become a starter for me.

I would be doing my kids a disservice, if I didn't allow for an open competition. If have an incoming freshman that people think can start for me instantly and even I think he can, it won't matter because he's not starting until he proves to me he can.

[LLT]

Dismanteling my argument how? Please show me how my argument was dismantled.

1) Insisting that Bell has been crowned the "starter" over the voices of everyone including this teams head coach...then backpedaling and saying "if he goes out there and can't play football then no he doesn't start" WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT EVERONE HAS BEEN SAYING SINCE THE BEGINNING!!! Then going BACK to your original statement that he has been crowned the starter....wash...rinse...repeat.

2) Using the argument that "Ya in the instance our second round draft pick who we scouted, shows up to camp and forgets how to play the game hes been playing his entire life."...and ignoring Steelers history and EVERYONE on this site reminding you of Limas Sweed...Alonzo Jackson....etc

Its a poor argument...a pillowcase full of shredded wheat...an empty bag of gummi bears...that is only still alive because you raise the zombie with logical fallacy...misdirection...twisting of words...and denial. We had a Patriots fan this site who did the VERY same thing...but was much better at it then you are....so none of this is new to any of us.

[Chidi29]

Do not kid about an empty bag of gummy bears, Perry. That's nothing to joke about.

[Dwinsgames]

1) Insisting that Bell has been crowned the "starter" over the voices of everyone including this teams head coach...then backpedaling and saying "if he goes out there and can't play football then no he doesn't start" WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT EVERONE HAS BEEN SAYING SINCE THE BEGINNING!!! Then going BACK to your original statement that he has been crowned the starter....wash...rinse...repeat.

2) Using the argument that "Ya in the instance our second round draft pick who we scouted, shows up to camp and forgets how to play the game hes been playing his entire life."...and ignoring Steelers history and EVERYONE on this site reminding you of Limas Sweed...Alonzo Jackson....etc

Its a poor argument...a pillowcase full of shredded wheat...an empty bag of gummi bears...that is only still alive because you raise the zombie with logical fallacy...misdirection...twisting of words...and denial. We had a Patriots fan this site who did the VERY same thing...but was much better at it then you are....so none of this is new to any of us.


don't forget this 2nd rounder ...

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWXrSFNzJ6B6KGts-RfQuyFOcfoLe3nQmkPOaenKgj8geEsHyxSg

[Steeldude]

Dismanteling my argument how? Bell has been in the starter position since he entered camp how can you dismantle that? I asked for anyone to layout the facts that show bell was brought in to just compete, to explain the offseason moves and the handling of bell in training camp. So far nobody has addressed any of those things, everyone chooses to just ignore everything that points to bell being the starter and just say "hes got to earn it" which doesn't really have to do with the fact that he was drafted to be the starter and not only the starter but the future back for this team. Please show me how my argument was dismantled.

Because he is listed as the 4th/5th RB on the depth chart.


I asked for anyone to layout the facts that show bell was brought in to just compete

Every player was brought in to compete.

[fansince'76]

Do not kid about an empty bag of gummy bears, Perry. That's nothing to joke about.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[LLT]

Do not kid about an empty bag of gummy bears, Perry. That's nothing to joke about.

Just for you...enjoy

http://www.candywarehouse.com/assets/item/large/image-125165.jpg

[Chidi29]

I don't see anything! Why are you torturing me!!!

[Count Steeler]

So I guess Dwyer is the starter by default?

[steeldawg]

So I guess Dwyer is the starter by default?

I think you could see a redman howlings combo

[Dwinsgames]

I think you could see a redman howlings combo


we could see NOT so Fast Willie Parker too but I would not hold my breath ... Dwyer gets the starts provided he does not piss Tomlin off the next couple weeks ( unless we go out of house and get someone such as Turner whom I loved as a draft pick but his best days are behind him , or McGahee who is also long in the tooth and coming off an injury but was having very good success in Denver prior to injury and that is a ZBS they run there )

[steelreserve]

Just for you...enjoy

http://www.candywarehouse.com/assets/item/large/image-125165.jpg

Dude, Black Forest sucks. Haribo is where it's at.

Also, if this somehow winds up with them even THINKING about Willie Parker, I swear I am gonna start flinging poo like an ape.

[Seven]

Also, if this somehow winds up with them even THINKING about Willie Parker, I swear I am gonna start flinging poo like an ape.

http://c10674700.r0.cf2.rackcdn.com/03-20-14_willie-parker_original.jpg (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=willie+parker&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=FloRBVNniNvd4M&tbnid=812fViKTW9EUSM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.post-gazette.com%2Fstories%2Fsports%2Fsteelers%2Fsteele rs-notebook-parker-wont-play-sunday-against-colts-620171%2F&ei=RJUVUu_HH8-t4AOqroHABw&bvm=bv.51156542,d.dmg&psig=AFQjCNEnVLnIvEoio0XxI73ngvB81qpXuQ&ust=1377232552465691)