Snowden lands in Moscow

[stillers4me]

Breaking News‏@BreakingNews45m (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/BreakingNews/status/348790416725921792)
Plane from Hong Kong believed to be carrying Edward Snowden lands in Moscow, airport says - @Reuters (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/Reuters)

WikiLeaks says it helped NSA leaker Edward Snowden leave Hong Kong


Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who exposed secrets about the federal government's surveillance programs, left Hong Kong legally Sunday with the help of the anti-secrecy website WikiLeaks and is bound for a "third country."

WikiLeaks issued a statement Sunday saying Snowden left Hong Kong and is bound for a "democratic nation via a safe route for the purposes of asylum, and is being escorted by diplomats and legal advisers from WikiLeaks."

Hong Kong's government confirmed earlier that Snowden has left the territory, where he had been hiding for several weeks since he revealed information on highly classified spy programs..............


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/23/obama-administration-confirms-talking-to-hong-kong-about-snowden/#ixzz2X31mJ3Vq

[Seven]

So much for "I'll let Hong Kong decide my fate."

[zulater]

Another facial from the world to the Obama administration.


What happened to the world loving us now that we got Rico Suave as POTUS?

[GoSlash27]

So much for "I'll let Hong Kong decide my fate."
Actually, they did.

"Snowden today voluntarily left Hong Kong for a third country through legal and normal means," a Hong Kong government spokesman said in a press statement.
The statement added that Hong Kong had "not obtained adequate information" to handle a provisional arrest warrant for Snowden issued by the US. A government spokesman also said that Snowden, a former contractor with the National Security Agency (NSA), had left voluntarily. *snip*
The government statement said Hong Kong had written to the US "requesting clarification" of earlier reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies.

IOW, Hong Kong told the US to go pound sand and let him leave for somewhere where he can't be extradited.

Was this a wise move on his part? I dunno. If he stayed in Hong Kong, then the .gov would paint him as a Chinese spy. If he leaves via Russia with assistance from Wikileaks, then the .gov paints him as a Russian spy.
If he comes home and faces trial, the courts won't allow him to plead his case and he'll be silenced.

[Seven]

Actually, they did.


IOW, Hong Kong told the US to go pound sand and let him leave for somewhere where he can't be extradited.

Was this a wise move on his part? I dunno. If he stayed in Hong Kong, then the .gov would paint him as a Chinese spy. If he leaves via Russia with assistance from Wikileaks, then the .gov paints him as a Russian spy.
If he comes home and faces trial, the courts won't allow him to plead his case and he'll be silenced.

Not in the way he implied. He said he wouldn't run from Hong Kong and he did. They just wanted him gone and the problem out of their hair.

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I'm not blaming him by the way, it was the smart move in my opinion. It's just ironic for a whistleblower to say one thing publicly then do the opposite behind the scenes.

[GoSlash27]

Not in the way he implied. He said he wouldn't run from Hong Kong and he did. They just wanted him gone and the problem out of their hair.

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I'm not blaming him by the way, it was the smart move in my opinion. It's just ironic for a whistleblower to say one thing publicly then do the opposite behind the scenes.

I've been following this story, but I don't recall him ever claiming he'd sit tight in Hong Kong. Do you have a link for that?

[GoSlash27]

Actually, nevermind. I think I found it.
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1259422/edward-snowden-let-hong-kong-people-decide-my-fate


“I have had many opportunities to flee HK, but I would rather stay and fight the United States government in the courts, because I have faith in Hong Kong’s rule of law,” he added.

Snowden says he has committed no crimes in Hong Kong and has “been given no reason to doubt [Hong Kong’s legal] system”.

“My intention is to ask the courts and people of Hong Kong to decide my fate,” he said.

Sounds like what you're referring to. If so, from the same interview:

He says he plans to stay in Hong Kong until he is “asked to leave”.

Coupled with the fact that he has stated repeatedly that he wants to be in Iceland (which is where I suspect he's headed), none of this strikes me as odd or disingenuous.

[ALLD]

He is going to Ecuador. My wife is from there. Her family will never get visas to visit us now in the US.

[GoSlash27]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xObacZAPk8w
This is how bad our press has gotten. We no longer have a government that respects the rights of it's citizens or the limits of it's own power. We no longer have journalists who are willing to shine a light on government wrongdoing (indeed, the very concept is "criminal" to them).
A free society *CANNOT* survive in these conditions.

[GBMelBlount]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xObacZAPk8w
This is how bad our press has gotten. We no longer have a government that respects the rights of it's citizens or the limits of it's own power. We no longer have journalists who are willing to shine a light on government wrongdoing (indeed, the very concept is "criminal" to them).
A free society *CANNOT* survive in these conditions.

I couldn't agree more.

This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

[Seven]

I've been following this story, but I don't recall him ever claiming he'd sit tight in Hong Kong. Do you have a link for that?


Snowden addressed why he fled to Hong Kong during the interview. “People who think I made a mistake in picking HK as a location misunderstand my intentions," Snowden told the Post. "I am not here to hide from justice; I am here to reveal criminality." He added that he had "faith" in Hong Kong's justice system, and that his "intention is to ask the courts and people of Hong Kong to decide [his] fate."
he told the Post that he would fight any attempts by the United States to have him extradited in the Hong Kong court system.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/12/edward-snowden-south-china-morning-post_n_3428057.html

In another article, Snowden was directly asked via reader mail if he would flee to Iceland if they granted him asylum. He said he would not because he had no interest in running and he said again "I will let Hong Kong decide my fate." I cannot find that link, however.

Point is, he's clearly changed his tune. I'm thinking he didn't believe he'd have the means to leave Hong Kong so he was putting on a brave face but once Wikileaks swooped in he realized he had an out he hadn't expected and took it, which was smart. But it is still ironic.

[Spike]

Putin Defies the U.S.: Russian Leader Confirms Snowden Is at Moscow Airport - and That He Won’t Be Extradited

http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/w/-/3/vladimir-putin-subtle-bird.jpg


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/25/putin-confirms-snowden-is-at-moscow-airport-and-he-wont-be-extradited/

[Mach1]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/993534_10151581103282740_589641751_n.jpg

[steeldawg]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/993534_10151581103282740_589641751_n.jpg

Putin is chuck norris? And who ever made that poster should learn how to spell chuck's last name if they know whats good for them.

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https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/993534_10151581103282740_589641751_n.jpg

Putin is chuck norris? And who ever made that poster should learn how to spell chuck's last name if they know whats good for them.

[Seven]

So why isn't the spy theory getting any play? Is it just because we want this guy to be Robin Hood? I think it's a valid possibility. Snowden is enthralled in eastern culture, practices Buddhism and worships Asian tradition. He speaks multiple Asian languages and the western system failed him when he was younger. Sounds like he'd make a hell of a Chinese spy to me. I'm not saying he is, but can anyone tell me why he isn't? Simply because he says so? Maybe he got sick of the spy game, got his nut and got out? I hope and think his claims are mostly true, but I don't see how or why this has been ruled out.

[GoSlash27]

So why isn't the spy theory getting any play? Is it just because we want this guy to be Robin Hood? I think it's a valid possibility. Snowden is enthralled in eastern culture, practices Buddhism and worships Asian tradition. He speaks multiple Asian languages and the western system failed him when he was younger. Sounds like he'd make a hell of a Chinese spy to me. I'm not saying he is, but can anyone tell me why he isn't? Simply because he says so? Maybe he got sick of the spy game, got his nut and got out? I hope and think his claims are mostly true, but I don't see how or why this has been ruled out.

I don't know how he or anyone else could prove a negative, but his actions are completely inconsistent with espionage. You don't spy for the Chinese by exposing a domestic American program in the British press and then giving interviews about it.

[Seven]

I don't know how he or anyone else could prove a negative, but his actions are completely inconsistent with espionage. You don't spy for the Chinese by exposing a domestic American program in the British press and then giving interviews about it.

I see what you're saying, but also, why not? Why not play this role? Why not turn US citizens against their own government with this information? The details about the NSA spying on us don't help another country, but leaking it certainly hurt the US both worldwide and within.

Even if he wasn't set up as a foreign spy, do you doubt information has changed hands between he and foreign powers at this point? You give us what you know and we'll let you fly to Moscow, for example?

Some of what he has said just doesn't make sense to me. And seeing as I don't believe everything he claims (just a lot of it) it's hard for me not to look for lies elsewhere. I really doubt he had the authority to wiretap anyone from Steeldawg to the President. The means! maybe, but the authority? There are higher clearances than level three. And I doubt he had the authority to wiretap the POTUS as a Dell contractor. Some of this just doesn't add up.

[Mach1]

I see what you're saying, but also, why not? Why not play this role? Why not turn US citizens against their own government with this information? The details about the NSA spying on us don't help another country, but leaking it certainly hurt the US both worldwide and within.

Even if he wasn't set up as a foreign spy, do you doubt information has changed hands between he and foreign powers at this point? You give us what you know and we'll let you fly to Moscow, for example?

Some of what he has said just doesn't make sense to me. And seeing as I don't believe everything he claims (just a lot of it) it's hard for me not to look for lies elsewhere. I really doubt he had the authority to wiretap anyone from Steeldawg to the President. The means! maybe, but the authority? There are higher clearances than level three. And I doubt he had the authority to wiretap the POTUS as a Dell contractor. Some of this just doesn't add up.

Hopey's doing a good job of that all by himself.

[fansince'76]

What happened to the world loving us now that we got Rico Suave as POTUS?

Good question. It did seem to quickly go by the wayside after he got the Nobel Peace Prize for...nothing.

[GoSlash27]

I see what you're saying, but also, why not? Why not play this role? Why not turn US citizens against their own government with this information? The details about the NSA spying on us don't help another country, but leaking it certainly hurt the US both worldwide and within.

Generally speaking, the object of espionage is to read the other guy's mail and not tip him off. If the Chinese had a guy that highly placed, they would've had him stay quiet and feed them info over the course of years, not remove all his access to that juicy info and blab a single story to the entire world.
Snowden's actions are no different than the other whistleblowers that came before him, except that he didn't bother voicing his concerns through "proper channels" first because he saw how that turned out.


Even if he wasn't set up as a foreign spy, do you doubt information has changed hands between he and foreign powers at this point? You give us what you know and we'll let you fly to Moscow, for example?
Honestly, I doubt it. That info makes a better insurance policy than a credit card. The Russians and Chinese have every reason to use this situation to their political advantage because they know it'll all come out anyway.


Some of what he has said just doesn't make sense to me. And seeing as I don't believe everything he claims (just a lot of it) it's hard for me not to look for lies elsewhere. I really doubt he had the authority to wiretap anyone from Steeldawg to the President. The means! maybe, but the authority? There are higher clearances than level three. And I doubt he had the authority to wiretap the POTUS as a Dell contractor. Some of this just doesn't add up.

He clearly didn't have "authority" to do any of that stuff, but he did have the ability had he chosen to do so.
Honestly, I think you're over-thinking it and Occam's razor applies here. He's just a guy who saw something going on that he thought was wrong and instead of keeping his head down he chose to speak out about it. You don't need to be an agent of a foreign power to do that.

[steeldawg]

I think its obvious hes not a spy for china or russia, if there was even any shred of possible spying our government would jumped at the chance to label him a spy and discredit him.

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I think its obvious hes not a spy for china or russia, if there was even any shred of possible spying our government would jumped at the chance to label him a spy and discredit him.

[Seven]

Generally speaking, the object of espionage is to read the other guy's mail and not tip him off. If the Chinese had a guy that highly placed, they would've had him stay quiet and feed them info over the course of years, not remove all his access to that juicy info and blab a single story to the entire world.
Snowden's actions are no different than the other whistleblowers that came before him, except that he didn't bother voicing his concerns through "proper channels" first because he saw how that turned out. Definitely true, but as I said, if he was getting out anyway why not release the info publicly?


He clearly didn't have "authority" to do any of that stuff, but he did have the ability had he chosen to do so.
Honestly, I think you're over-thinking it and Occam's razor applies here. He's just a guy who saw something going on that he thought was wrong and instead of keeping his head down he chose to speak out about it. You don't need to be an agent of a foreign power to do that.

I agree. But I think it's silly to totally discount the possibility considering we've established Snowden is at least partially a liar.

[GoSlash27]

Definitely true, but as I said, if he was getting out anyway why not release the info publicly?
Because it's a really bad idea.
1) If he were a Chinese agent, he would be in China right now where they can protect him, not the Moscow airport.
2) If he were a Chinese agent, he would've kept his mouth shut so we wouldn't know how much and what kinda info they got.
3) If he were a Chinese agent and insisted on going public, the last place in the world he would do that is Hong Kong, where the Chinese could get to him.





I agree. But I think it's silly to totally discount the possibility considering we've established Snowden is at least partially a liar.
The one has nothing to do with the other. We're all partially liars. You, me, and the Pope included. That doesn't make us Chinese spies.
The info that we have on what he did doesn't add up if he's a foreign agent.

[Seven]

Because it's a really bad idea.
1) If he were a Chinese agent, he would be in China right now where they can protect him, not the Moscow airport.
2) If he were a Chinese agent, he would've kept his mouth shut so we wouldn't know how much and what kinda info they got.
3) If he were a Chinese agent and insisted on going public, the last place in the world he would do that is Hong Kong, where the Chinese could get to him.

I think you're misunderstanding a few things I said, but you've made your point.


The one has nothing to do with the other. We're all partially liars. You, me, and the Pope included. That doesn't make us Chinese spies.
The info that we have on what he did doesn't add up if he's a foreign agent.

I guess my broader point is, I don't believe anything the guy says at this point that can't be corroborated by another source. Lying then backing up your lie when called out on it isn't the way someone gains my trust. He's exaggerated on one point, he's probably exaggerating all of it. It goes back to his true intentions, which may be partially good, but not solely driven by his desire for US citizens to know the truth as he is claiming. Truth and lies don't mix. Snowden has an ego. I'm grateful for the accurate information he has provided, but he's not a hero.

[Seven]

http://news.yahoo.com/bolivian-leaders-plane-rerouted-snowden-fear-222538590.html
VIENNA (AP) — The plane carrying Bolivian President Evo Morales was rerouted to Austria after various European countries refused to let it cross their airspace because of suspicions that NSA leaker Edward Snowden was on board, Bolivian officials said Tuesday.

[GoSlash27]

haha this won't bode well for our international relations...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/03/us-usa-security-snowden-idUSBRE9610C520130703

Bolivia angered by search of president's plane, no sign of Snowden

(Reuters) - Bolivia accused Austria of an act of aggression by searching President Evo Morales' plane on Wednesday and blamed Washington for its forced landing in Vienna over suspicions that former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden was on board.

Morales' plane was stranded at Vienna airport for several hours after Portugal and France abruptly canceled air permits for it to fly through their airspace, but eventually resumed its flight home form an energy meeting in Moscow.

Austria found no sign of Snowden on board. He is believed to still be in the transit area of a Moscow airport, where he has been trying since June 23 to find a country that will protect him from prosecution in the United States on espionage charges...