If Bill Cowher wanted to come back as Steelers HC next month - would you take him?

[Spike]

A simple poll...

The Rooney's are listening

[Chidi29]

No way.

[Dwinsgames]

I don't see a poll .....

but yes I would take Cowher over Tomlin ......... but not by a large margin , Cowher with several years off ( refreshed, refocused ) would be a kick in the ass this team desperately needs IMO

[steelerdude15]

No and for two reasons. One, he hasn't coached since 2006 and would be completely rusty and out of it. A lot has changed since then. Two, I have the utmost confidence and respect for Tomlin and I feel he's the man for the job. I've defended him through the bad and I've been with Tomlin through thick and thin. Now don't get me wrong, I think Cowher was a great coach and I still have the utmost respect for him. I always liked him and he was the coach I grew up watching. He is a great man and I think its safe to say majority of Steelers fans have moved on from his time as coach.

[Seven]

No. The only argument for this is the 2008 "Cowher's team" notion that is total nonsense.

[st33lersguy]

Yes, he probably wouldn't lose to the Raiders, Chiefs, and Browns in a span of 4 weeks and he would probably properly prepare his team against awful competition

[Spike]

I don't see a poll .....

but yes I would take Cowher over Tomlin .........

I didn't think a poll with only 2 answers had any grey areas

[Dwinsgames]

I didn't think a poll with only 2 answers had any grey areas


ease of seeing the results without having to count them 1 by 1 as they come in .. LOL

[Spike]

Mi casa es su casa

[polamalubeast]

I like Cowher, but it would be disrespectful to Tomlin, who also participate in two super bowl

- - - Updated - - -


Yes, he probably wouldn't lose to the Raiders, Chiefs, and Browns in a span of 4 weeks and he would probably properly prepare his team against awful competition




Cowher is a great coach, but he is not perfect

In 1998, the Steelers lost twice against the 3-13 Bengals

In 1999 and 2000,the Browns only had a 5-27 record and two of his wins were against the steelers

Not forget the lost vs the 2-14 raiders in 2006

[Spike]

'Only if Ben will take me'

http://img0.yardbarker.com/media/9/3/93ff20c34d184155196a694dfd5cc1c14662be36/related/bill-cowher-announce.jpg?stamp=1371182107

[GBMelBlount]

No. The only argument for this is the 2008 "Cowher's team" notion that is total nonsense.

I disagree.

Tomlin has been poor at making adjustments at times and also has seemed apathetic to the general malaise in the locker room.

At this instant, I lean towards Cowher.

Just one man's opinion for the sake of discussion.

Tomlin has accomplished great things for such a young coach and is still relatively inexperienced and growing.

I think how he responds to the disappointment and adversity the last two years may determine if he is just a good coach, or a great one.

Regardless, we have been blessed to with three very good coaches the last 40 years.

[zulater]

No I wouldn't want Cowher back. I don't think his heart is in coaching anymore. If he comes back it will be strictly for the money. The fire went out in 2005 when he got his Super Bowl.

Was he better than Tomlin? I don't know? I think they're relatively equal. Give it another couple years and maybe I can give you a more definitive answer? Or maybe not, maybe they'll always be relatively equal. Which is a good thing.

Tomlin's a very good coach. Not saying he's perfect, not saying he doesn't do things that frustrate me at times. But you can do a lot worse. It will be interesting to see how he rebounds off his first non winning season.

[fansince'76]

If he were to come back, we may as well trade Ben and go with Gradkowski, because it would be right back to Marty Ball lite. It doesn't take a $100 million franchise QB to be a game manager. What's more, we'd need that bargaining chip to hopefully score a franchise RB which WOULD be needed in such a scenario...I wonder if the Vikes would be interested in a BR for AP trade straight up?

And for all the bitching I've heard lately about how the Steelers have held on to aging veterans for too long and have not been getting younger players into the mix quickly enough, there are a LOT of very short memories when it comes to Cowher. If ANYONE was guilty of favoring "his guys" even if it meant a younger and more effective alternative was left rotting on the bench, it was William Laird Cowher.

Don't get me wrong, Cowher was a good coach. However, that's ALL he was. I'm really sick of this romanticized notion that he was the steward of some sort of "golden age" of Steelers football. He wasn't.

I'd take Chuck Noll, circa 1970, over Tomlin or Cowher any day of the week. But as far as Cowher/Tomlin is concerned, I agree with Zu - I think the difference between the two is negligible at this point. Unlike seemingly a lot of people, I remember Cowher's many warts.

[43Hitman]

No. The past is the past.

[X-Terminator]

No. And like fansince, I'm sick of the constant romanticizing over him. Cowher had PLENTY of sour moments, horrible decisions and piss-poor performances as head coach, but because fans love the "spit n' jaw," those moments get selectively overlooked.

[Psycho Ward 86]

the fuck? no

[Count Steeler]

No. Cowher's days have passed. Tomlin is still "learning" and I think he will take a step forward this year. I think he is still one of the youngest head coaches out there.

[tube517]

Yeah, for every Limas Sweed, there is Troy Edwards. For every Bruce Davis, there is Alonzo Jackson. For every Tomlin draft bust, Cowher's got his own.

Oh, but the past 6 years was all Cowher anyway..... :rolleyes:

I liked Cowher but I wouldn't want to see him back.

[st33lersguy]

Cowher didn't miss the playoffs with a team filled with veteran pro bowlers with Super Bowl experience. Most of Cowher's failures were with Steelers teams that talent wise were mere shells of what he had in his early days. 1998-2000 was a transitional period coming off a great loss of talent in free agency over the past few years (losing most prominently Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson, Kevin Greene, Chad Brown, Yancey Thigpen among others) and the 2003 team featured no running game, no pass defense, Turnover Tommy Maddox as the QB and Tim Lewis as the defensive coordinator (in retrospect it took a heck of a coaching effort to get that to the team to the playoffs in 2002). Also lets not forget that Tomlin has been blessed with one of the game's elite QBs his entire career. Cowher was in the league 13 years, he only had a great QB in 3 of those years (and one Ben was hampered by injury). Cowher has made the playoffs with Neil O Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, and in 1996 with instability and 3 different QBs starting (Jim Miller, Kordell, and Tomszak). Bottom line Cowher failed with less and when he did have Super Bowl caliber rosters he almost always had the team contending (except 2006, when I'm sure his heart wasn't even in it).

[Dwinsgames]

Yeah, for every Limas Sweed, there is Troy Edwards. For every Bruce Davis, there is Alonzo Jackson. For every Tomlin draft bust, Cowher's got his own.

Oh, but the past 6 years was all Cowher anyway..... :rolleyes:

I liked Cowher but I wouldn't want to see him back.


you meant to say for every Kevin Colbert there is a Tom Donohoe

Its the GMs staff ( scouts ) headed by the GM or director of football operations as the Steelers used to call the job that sets up the draft board in the event of group of players being on that board at the time of the pick the coaching staff , ownership and entire front office chimes in on their preference and a general consensus is formed and the pick is made .... Blaming picks Like Zo Jackson and Bruce Davis on Cowher is as bad IMO as crediting Cowher for Ben .....

just sayin

[Devilsdancefloor]

No, he has move on and isnt the same

[fansince'76]

Also lets not forget that Tomlin has been blessed with one of the game's elite QBs his entire career. Cowher was in the league 13 years, he only had a great QB in 3 of those years (and one Ben was hampered by injury). Cowher has made the playoffs with Neil O Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, and in 1996 with instability and 3 different QBs starting (Jim Miller, Kordell, and Tomszak).

IMO, he wouldn't know how to handle an elite QB. I think the sound bite of Roethlisberger in SB XL with Cowher on the sidelines spoke volumes - "let's play to win, coach, not play not to lose, OK?" He lit up the top 3 seeds in the AFC in the postseason up to that point, he was absolutely on fire, and then he turns in that turd? Ever wonder why? I truly believe that the ever-conservative Cowher probably had him so scared of screwing up in that game that the screw ups he did make became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Personally, I place a good chunk of the blame for Ben's performance in SB XL on Cowher.

[steelreserve]

Cowher overachieved with a lot of teams that were probably just above average talent-wise. So he was good for us in the 1990s when we had to compete with all the super-clubs that were loaded with star power. He also had a ceiling that was lower than what you need to consistently make that last step for a championship. As I like to say, we wouldn't have won a Super Bowl without him, but if not for him we might have won two or three. Anyway, that ship has sailed and there's no point worrying about it, but if I had to pick between him and Tomlin based on today's team, I don't think Cowher would be the right match.

[tube517]

you meant to say for every Kevin Colbert there is a Tom Donohoe

Its the GMs staff ( scouts ) headed by the GM or director of football operations as the Steelers used to call the job that sets up the draft board in the event of group of players being on that board at the time of the pick the coaching staff , ownership and entire front office chimes in on their preference and a general consensus is formed and the pick is made .... Blaming picks Like Zo Jackson and Bruce Davis on Cowher is as bad IMO as crediting Cowher for Ben .....

just sayin

I get what you are saying. The same people are going to bitch about everything even when we win the super bowl.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Moose]

Tough call. I like and respect coach Cowher and I definitely think his sternness is something this team definitely needed in the past years. I don't think alot of the locker room bull crap that supposedly happened would have happened with coach Cowher. So I think this team would be better disciplined with Cowher at the wheel. Now as far as Tomlin as coach I think the team likes his style. I think the youngsters prefer his mild manner compared to Cowher's spitting and screaming. So I guess it's the saying of catching more with sugar than salt. Different styles, different times.

[Craic]

No.

How many coaches come close to their former glory in their second go around with a team?

[Seven]

Cowher was in the league 13 years, he only had a great QB in 3 of those years (and one Ben was hampered by injury). Cowher has made the playoffs with Neil O Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, and in 1996 with instability and 3 different QBs starting (Jim Miller, Kordell, and Tomszak).
Most of Cowher's failures were with Steelers teams that talent wise were mere shells of what he had in his early days. I find those comments interesting considering you are in the boat that claims Tomlin has benefitted from the team "Cowher built".
I am starting to get the impression that Tomlin was carried to success by the team Cowher built
If Cowher was a superior personnel guy, as you have argued in the past, why did he field so many teams that, according to you, were less talented than the one Tomlin is coaching now?

Truth is, Cowher wasn't the best personnel evaluator in the world (see Shawn Andrews vs. Ben Roethlisberger). I loved Coach Bill, but he had more than his fair share of flaws. Tomlin has done an excellent job both coaching and helping to build this team.

[GBMelBlount]

IMO, he wouldn't know how to handle an elite QB. I think the sound bite of Roethlisberger in SB XL with Cowher on the sidelines spoke volumes - "let's play to win, coach, not play not to lose, OK?" He lit up the top 3 seeds in the AFC in the postseason up to that point, he was absolutely on fire, and then he turns in that turd? Ever wonder why? I truly believe that the ever-conservative Cowher probably had him so scared of screwing up in that game that the screw ups he did make became a self-fulfilling prophecy. Personally, I place a good chunk of the blame for Ben's performance in SB XL on Cowher.

This is a great point.

I remember in college I was wrestling this kid from upstate NY who was an all american and I was beating him 8-4 with less than a minute left in the match. We went out of bounds and my coach was screaming give him the takedown but no back points. I was thinking wtf to myself but actually changed my mindset to giving a takedown up to being acceptable and the guy took me down to my back, scored 5 points and beat me 9-8. Never would have happened had I not subconsciously let up and taken the mind set that giving up a take down was fine. Had I finished out the match normally I would have most likely won.

Ultimately my fault, but still...fantastic point Fan.

[Count Steeler]

This is a great point.

I remember in college I was wrestling this kid from upstate NY who was an all american and I was beating him 8-4 with less than a minute left in the match. We went out of bounds and my coach was screaming give him the takedown but no back points. I was thinking wtf to myself but actually changed my mindset to giving a takedown up to being acceptable and the guy took me down to my back, scored 5 points and beat me 9-8. Never would have happened had I not subconsciously let up and taken the mind set that giving up a take down was fine. Had I finished out the match normally I would have most likely won.

Ultimately my fault, but still...fantastic point Fan.

This illustrates my frustration with the prevent defense! What magically changes once we get the lead? If you are winning the defensive battle, finish the game strong! Perhaps the most frustrating part of football for me.

[fansince'76]

This is a great point.

I remember in college I was wrestling this kid from upstate NY who was an all american and I was beating him 8-4 with less than a minute left in the match. We went out of bounds and my coach was screaming give him the takedown but no back points. I was thinking wtf to myself but actually changed my mindset to giving a takedown up to being acceptable and the guy took me down to my back, scored 5 points and beat me 9-8. Never would have happened had I not subconsciously let up and taken the mind set that giving up a take down was fine. Had I finished out the match normally I would have most likely won.

Ultimately my fault, but still...fantastic point Fan.

I have no proof for any of it, but I don't think "nerves" alone explains the night and day difference between Roethlisberger's demeanor or performance throughout the postseason that year and SB XL and the fact that Roethlisberger played SB XL in an "mentally paralytic" state (for lack of a better term). I just wonder how many times Cowher ran clips of O'Donnell handing over SB XXX to the Cowboys on a silver platter while saying to Roethlisberger, in so many words, "Whatever you do, don't do this."

And as further evidence, here are the first two series from the AFCCG vs. Denver that year and SB XL. We completely went into turtleball mode from the get-go in SB XL, which was another bad habit of Cowher's, especially in big games.

2005 AFCCG vs. Denver:
Pittsburgh Steelers at 10:40
1-10-PIT 9 (10:40) Direction change after punt. B.Roethlisberger pass to W.Parker to PIT 17 for 8 yards (I.Gold; DJ.Williams).
2-2-PIT 17 (10:02) B.Roethlisberger pass to A.Randle El to PIT 37 for 20 yards (D.Foxworth).
1-10-PIT 37 (9:32) W.Parker right tackle to PIT 39 for 2 yards (C.Brown).
2-8-PIT 39 (8:55) B.Roethlisberger pass to W.Parker to PIT 44 for 5 yards (D.Foxworth).
3-3-PIT 44 (8:08) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass to H.Ward to DEN 49 for 7 yards (J.Lynch).
1-10-DEN 49 (7:24) W.Parker left tackle to DEN 45 for 4 yards (DJ.Williams, M.Myers).
2-6-DEN 45 (6:46) W.Parker right tackle to 50 for -5 yards (A.Wilson). FUMBLES (A.Wilson), RECOVERED by DEN-I.Gold at 50. I.Gold to PIT 49 for 1 yard (M.Starks). Play Challenged by PIT and REVERSED. W.Parker right tackle to DEN 46 for -1 yards (A.Wilson).
3-7-DEN 46 (6:20) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass to N.Washington pushed ob at DEN 33 for 13 yards (D.Foxworth).
1-10-DEN 33 (5:51) B.Roethlisberger sacked at DEN 33 for 0 yards (M.Myers).
2-10-DEN 33 (5:10) H.Ward left end to DEN 29 for 4 yards (D.Foxworth; C.Bailey). Reverse Play.
3-6-DEN 29 (4:20) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete to N.Washington (D.Foxworth).
4-6-DEN 29 (4:15) J.Reed 47 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-G.Warren, Holder-C.Gardocki.

Pittsburgh Steelers at 02:47
1-10-DEN 39 (2:47) W.Parker right tackle to DEN 38 for 1 yard (N.Ferguson; D.Foxworth).
2-9-DEN 38 (2:09) B.Roethlisberger pass to H.Miller to DEN 14 for 24 yards (S.Brandon, N.Ferguson).
1-10-DEN 14 (1:22) J.Bettis right tackle to DEN 15 for -1 yards (DJ.Williams; J.Lynch).
2-11-DEN 15 (:38) J.Bettis up the middle to DEN 12 for 3 yards (M.Myers).
END QUARTER 1

2nd Quarter
Pittsburgh Steelers continued...
3-8-DEN 12 (15:00) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass to C.Wilson for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
0-0-DEN 2 J.Reed extra point is GOOD, Center-G.Warren, Holder-C.Gardocki.


Super Bowl XL:
PITTSBURGH STEELERS at 12:09
1-10-PIT20 (12:09) PENALTY on PIT-H.Miller, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 20 - No Play.
1-15-PIT15 (12:09) W.Parker up the middle to PIT 15 for no gain (L.Hill).
2-15-PIT15 (11:35) B.Roethlisberger pass to W.Parker to PIT 16 for 1 yard (R.Bernard).
3-14-PIT16 (10:47) (Shotgun) PENALTY on PIT-M.Starks, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 16 - No Play.
3-19-PIT11 (10:32) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger left tackle to PIT 21 for 10 yards (L.Tatupu).
4-9-PIT21 (9:49) C.Gardocki punts 41 yards to SEA 38, Center-G.Warren. P.Warrick to SEA 36 for -2 yards (J.Harrison).

PITTSBURGH STEELERS at 05:39
1-10-PIT20 (5:39) W.Parker left end to PIT 20 for no gain (M.Trufant).
2-10-PIT20 (5:02) W.Parker left end to PIT 26 for 6 yards (L.Hill).
3-4-PIT26 (4:20) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete to H.Ward.
4-4-PIT26 (4:14) C.Gardocki punts 37 yards to SEA 37, Center-G.Warren. P.Warrick to SEA 49 for 12 yards (J.Harrison; C.Kriewaldt).

Roethlisberger should have been turned loose in XL like he was against the Bengals, Colts and Broncos. He EARNED that. Even as a second year QB, he was still light years better than O'Donnell ever was, and should have been treated by Cowher accordingly.

And then of course was the "Kordell experiment" that went on for at least 3 years longer than it had any right to. IMO, Cowher simply didn't know how to effectively manage the QB position and as a result treated it like an afterthought.

[st33lersguy]

I find those comments interesting considering you are in the boat that claims Tomlin has benefitted from the team "Cowher built".
If Cowher was a superior personnel guy, as you have argued in the past, why did he field so many teams that, according to you, were less talented than the one Tomlin is coaching now?

Truth is, Cowher wasn't the best personnel evaluator in the world (see Shawn Andrews vs. Ben Roethlisberger). I loved Coach Bill, but he had more than his fair share of flaws. Tomlin has done an excellent job both coaching and helping to build this team.

Easy, the Steelers reached that level of talent in 2004. That year Big Ben was added to the starting line-up giving the team the franchise QB needed to take the next step. 2004 was also the year Troy Polamalu stepped in to the starting line-up, greatly improving what had been a shaky pass defense over the past two years (remember Brent Alexander?). Also 2004 was the year they signed James Harrison to be the future no. 1 pass rusher and Willie Parker who shored up the running game (Yes they didn't make until later). Plus Dick LeBeau was hired at DC as a huge upgrade over Tim Lewis. Fact is there were some key personnel that wasn't there in 2003 that was added over the next few years and that 2004 team from a personnel standpoint was greatly improved (which explains the 9 game improvement)

[fansince'76]

Easy, the Steelers reached that level of talent in 2004. That year Big Ben was added to the starting line-up giving the team the franchise QB needed to take the next step.

Yeah, thanks to Dan Rooney. If it would have been left up to Cowher, we would have taken yet another OT in the first round (Shawn Andrews) and been stuck with Turnover Tommy for God knows how much longer. And at the risk of sounding crass, thankfully Turnover Tommy got injured, otherwise again, there's no telling how long he would have stayed the starter while Ben rotted on the bench, especially considering that Roethlisberger most assuredly wasn't a "Cowher guy." I think it's a safe bet that we wouldn't have sniffed the 15-1 record or SB XL the following season if Maddox hadn't gotten injured early on in '04. Hell, Ben getting injured and Maddox almost singlehandedly pissing two games away nearly cost us a playoff berth in '05 anyway.


Also 2004 was the year they signed James Harrison to be the future no. 1 pass rusher...

...and who NEVER would have supplanted Porter at ROLB as long as Cowher was HC, since Peezy was the biggest "Cowher guy" of them all. The only notable thing Harrison ever did during Cowher's tenure was body slam a fat drunken Browns fan as he was never given an opportunity to do anything else.

[Mojouw]

In terms of Cowher going conservative in big situations, don't forget he is a Schottenheimer disciple. They don't call it "Marty Ball" for nothing.

Also, I don't see it mentioned here, but let's not make Cowher out to be the best coach since Lombardi. His teams routinely opened the season flat, often played down to their competition, and he was frequently out-coached in big games w/ half-time adjustments (or seeming lack thereof). Not to mention his penchant for sticking with veteran guys way too long (This is the coach who took several seasons to get Hines Ward on the field), meddling in personnel decisions ('Zo Jackson, Shawn Andrews, etc), and generally suffered when not surrounded by good assistant coaches and coordinators.

Now that all being said, Cowher is likely a borderline HOF coach. He has a fabulous won-loss record, a championship, a long tenure with one team and there was that jaw and the spit.

Just wanted to point out that many of the same criticisms that can be leveled at the Tomlin era teams can rightfully also be leveled at some of the Cowher era teams. I think both guys when all is said and done are going to be regarded as really good head coaches. I think the major problem with each guy is that they are manager/motivator types not strategic innovators or real tacticians. They will play their system and rarely deviate from it. I think that has hurt both coaches in some of the biggest stages.

[tube517]

Easy, the Steelers reached that level of talent in 2004. That year Big Ben was added to the starting line-up giving the team the franchise QB needed to take the next step. 2004 was also the year Troy Polamalu stepped in to the starting line-up, greatly improving what had been a shaky pass defense over the past two years (remember Brent Alexander?). Also 2004 was the year they signed James Harrison to be the future no. 1 pass rusher and Willie Parker who shored up the running game (Yes they didn't make until later). Plus Dick LeBeau was hired at DC as a huge upgrade over Tim Lewis. Fact is there were some key personnel that wasn't there in 2003 that was added over the next few years and that 2004 team from a personnel standpoint was greatly improved (which explains the 9 game improvement)

Yet, in 2004, he started the season with Chad "Toast" Scott as the starting CB. He stuck with Scott and D.Washington for waaaaay too long and finally ditched Washington in 2004 (Deshea took that spot as the starting CB) and Scott got injured and Willie Williams (great FA pickup by Cowher at the time) stepped in. To add to FS76's point, who knows if the pass defense would've held up if Scott hadn't gotten hurt (Similar to Touchd...er Turnover Tommy getting hurt). After the end of that season, Scott was gone.

And I won't excuse Tomlin for the shit seasons of 2009 and 2012. So don't get me confused for some Tomlin homer or Cowher hater. I like both coaches but they aren't without their flaws.

[st33lersguy]

Yes Cowher had flaws and weak points (none that Tomlin doesn't have), but one fact no one can argue is that Cowher had won with less talent and under less ideal circumstances. Tomlin never has gone more than a month without a franchise QB, Cowher had gone 12 years without a franchise QB and still won. Tomlin also failed under more ideal circumstances.

[SteelGhost]

Yet, in 2004, he started the season with Chad "Toast" Scott as the starting CB. He stuck with Scott and D.Washington for waaaaay too long and finally ditched Washington in 2004 (Deshea took that spot as the starting CB) and Scott got injured and Willie Williams (great FA pickup by Cowher at the time) stepped in. To add to FS76's point, who knows if the pass defense would've held up if Scott hadn't gotten hurt (Similar to Touchd...er Turnover Tommy getting hurt). After the end of that season, Scott was gone.

And I won't excuse Tomlin for the shit seasons of 2009 and 2012. So don't get me confused for some Tomlin homer or Cowher hater. I like both coaches but they aren't without their flaws.

This sums it up for me :applaudit:

[fansince'76]

Yes Cowher had flaws and weak points (none that Tomlin doesn't have), but one fact no one can argue is that Cowher had won with less talent and under less ideal circumstances. Tomlin never has gone more than a month without a franchise QB, Cowher had gone 12 years without a franchise QB and still won. Tomlin also failed under more ideal circumstances.

I respectfully disagree. That "Blitzburgh" defense was LOADED with talent (Lloyd, Woodson, Kirkland, Lake, Greene, Brown, Steed, etc., etc.) and was arguably even more talented man-for-man than the 2008 defense. The OL was 10x better at that time than it has been at any time since Tomlin became coach, and the Bus in his prime was light years better than any RB Tomlin has had as well (I hope Bell changes that). The only real advantage Tomlin has had personnel-wise over Cowher was that Ben has been here for the entirety of Tomlin's tenure, but I already mentioned the fact that I feel Cowher mismanaged the QB position anyway.

[7SteelGal43]

No. We've got Tomlin. Why would we need Cowher ?

[Mojouw]

Yes Cowher had flaws and weak points (none that Tomlin doesn't have), but one fact no one can argue is that Cowher had won with less talent and under less ideal circumstances. Tomlin never has gone more than a month without a franchise QB, Cowher had gone 12 years without a franchise QB and still won. Tomlin also failed under more ideal circumstances.

Cowher coached (at least in part) in a totally different era. It was still possible to win averaging 3.5 yards per carry scoring 24 points and taking the air out of the football and bleeding the clock. You can't do that anymore. The league has tilted the field so far in the offense's favor, you need a franchise QB -- an "elite" QB even (Jeez I hope Hoge and Stink Schlereth don't show up at my house now to ask me who an elite QB is!). Cowher didn't need that for stretches of his time as a coach. Ultimately the lack of one kinda screwed him, but Cowher's QB management is a whole other thread.

Look at the list of SB Qbs. Since about 2006 it is all guys (except Rex Grossman) that are going to be in Canton. Heck during Cowher's time Trent Dilfer won a championship and we had one where the two QB's were Brad Johnson and Rich Gannon. Jake Delhomme went to a SB. So did Kerry Collins. Guys that are that next tier down from the best in the league simply are not making SB appearances anymore. I really don't think you can fault Tomlin for doing "less" with a Franchise QB.

[steelerdude15]

There has been a lot of great info in this thread.

[Seven]

Bill Cowher: .623 win percentage. Mike Tomlin: .656 winning percentage. We've already established that both coaches have flaws, so give me the guy who wins more often.

[Dwinsgames]

Bill Cowher: .623 win percentage. Mike Tomlin: .656 winning percentage. We've already established that both coaches have flaws, so give me the guy who wins more often.

Cowher took over a team with a playoff drought in the last years of The Emperor , Tomlin took over a team 2 years removed from the Super Bowl ... perhaps those few percentage points difference in winner percentage can be attributed to the talent level of the franchise at the time they took over as well ( and in Cowhers case the fact he introduced what is considered one of the tougher def. systems to learn ) while Tomlin had that system and players in place already and did not change the Def ...

lots of factors come into play

[Seven]

Cowher took over a team with a playoff drought in the last years of The Emperor , Tomlin took over a team 2 years removed from the Super Bowl ... perhaps those few percentage points difference in winner percentage can be attributed to the talent level of the franchise at the time they took over as well ( and in Cowhers case the fact he introduced what is considered one of the tougher def. systems to learn ) while Tomlin had that system and players in place already and did not change the Def ...

lots of factors come into play

I just don't buy it. Most of the starters on this team aren't Cowher guys and we're still winning consistently. That's why the "Cowher's team" arguement doesn't work. Their both good head coaches with flaws. I think Cowher was a little better on Sundays, I think Tomlin is a little better at everything else. Would I trade Tomlin for Cowher back? No way. Slice it however you want we've won more under Tomlin.

[Dwinsgames]

I just don't buy it. Most of the starters on this team aren't Cowher guys and we're still winning consistently. That's why the "Cowher's team" arguement doesn't work. Their both good head coaches with flaws. I think Cowher was a little better on Sundays, I think Tomlin is a little better at everything else. Would I trade Tomlin for Cowher back? No way. Slice it however you want we've won more under Tomlin.


I think you missed my point ...

At the beginning of Tomlins run he had 100% ( well close to it anyways ) of Cowhers team that was 2 years removed from being world champs ....

Cowher on the other hand took over a team that was in a playoff drought and had not been to the big dance in two decades, introduced an entirely different def scheme with one of the toughest systems to learn Dom Capers then Lebeau both with a high degree of learning curve .....

we are talking about a difference in winning percentage of .02 seems to me its pretty easy to see why

[st33lersguy]

Say what you want about Cowher, he is one of 2 coaches in NFL history to lead his team to the playoffs in his 6 first season as head coach, the other is Paul Brown. Tomlin would have been 3rd but for those two awful stinkers.

[zulater]

I think you missed my point ...

At the beginning of Tomlins run he had 100% ( well close to it anyways ) of Cowhers team that was 2 years removed from being world champs ....

Cowher on the other hand took over a team that was in a playoff drought and had not been to the big dance in two decades, introduced an entirely different def scheme with one of the toughest systems to learn Dom Capers then Lebeau both with a high degree of learning curve .....

we are talking about a difference in winning percentage of .02 seems to me its pretty easy to see why

Cowher inherited a core of very good to great players that were in or coming into their prime from Noll. Included among these was Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Gregg Llloyd, Dirt Dawson, Barry Foster, Eric Greene, Hardy Nickerson, and Thomas Everett.

[Dwinsgames]

Cowher inherited a core of very good to great players that were in or coming into their prime from Noll. Included among these was Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Gregg Llloyd, Dirt Dawson, Barry Foster, Eric Greene, Hardy Nickerson, and Thomas Everett.


where was his SB winning QB ?

proven def scheme with a mastermind behind it to make is work properly ? ( aka Capers or Lebeau ) oh wait he hired them ....

he has some pieces sure , but he did not have a team full of players 2 years removed from a SB victory

[Seven]

I think you missed my point ...

At the beginning of Tomlins run he had 100% ( well close to it anyways ) of Cowhers team that was 2 years removed from being world champs ....

Cowher on the other hand took over a team that was in a playoff drought and had not been to the big dance in two decades, introduced an entirely different def scheme with one of the toughest systems to learn Dom Capers then Lebeau both with a high degree of learning curve .....

we are talking about a difference in winning percentage of .02 seems to me its pretty easy to see why

Do you really think that XL team was the best in the league that year? No way. Obviously I'm glad we won the title, but that team was above average at best. I think the 2010 Super Bowl team would kick the snot out of that XL team. And the 2010 team was largely built by Tomlin. I get the point you're trying to make, I just don't see how it holds up. Sure, Tomlin had some decent pieces here when he started, but Cowher had some decent pieces when he started, too. It's not like Tomlin inherited the best roster in all of football history. If Tomlin would have went 8-8 or worse every season since winning the Super Bowl, I think you'd have a point. But he's continued to win with his own guys, so I don't think the "Cowher's team" argument holds water.

[Psycho Ward 86]

brace yourselves. the troll threads are coming

[jb500ex]

Tomlins teams blow alot of 4 th qtr leads cowher didn't. Tomlin has already missed the playoffs twice with a elite qb. Sorry cowher is a Bette coach. Our drafts have t been good unde Tomlin and we wasted a few years with a great team. Tomlin will also have the honor of being the coach that got embarrassed by the great Tim tebow in the playoffs

[fansince'76]

Tomlins teams blow alot of 4 th qtr leads cowher didn't. Tomlin has already missed the playoffs twice with a elite qb. Sorry cowher is a Bette coach. Our drafts have t been good unde Tomlin and we wasted a few years with a great team. Tomlin will also have the honor of being the coach that got embarrassed by the great Tim tebow in the playoffs

Wouldn't be afraid to put money on the notion that you were among the very vocal masses that constantly screamed for Cowher's head from about 1997 to 2005...

And choking away the 1994 AFCCG to Stan Humphries AT HOME was kinda embarrassing as I recall. And I won't bother to mention the implosion against a Patriots team that should have been rolled over in 2001.