Redskins name change in the works?

[fansince'76]

Redskins name change in the works? D.C. councilman suggests ‘Redtails’

(CNN) — David Grosso, 42, was born and raised in the metropolitan Washington area so it’s not tough to see why he’s a diehard Washington Redskins fan. Been going to games since he was a boy. Season ticket holder.

But Grosso, like so many others, objects to the name and mascot of his favorite team.

“The term Redskins is a racist and derogatory term,” he says.

These days, Grosso has the power to do something more than air his opinion. He was elected to Washington’s City Council in November, and he plans to introduce a resolution Wednesday to rename the team to the Washington Redtails. That’s a tribute to the Tuskegee Airmen, though, Grosso says, there are plenty of redtail hawks in the area.

He’s open to other suggestions. He just wants the current name gone.

Read more: Redskins name change in the works? D.C. councilman suggests ‘Redtails’ (http://pix11.com/2013/04/30/redskins-name-change-in-the-works-d-c-councilman-backs-proposal/#axzz2RzEPVBQO)

I'm surprised this is coming up now. It usually only happens when the Redskins are in the Super Bowl, or when the Braves or Indians are in the World Series. Oh, and I guess the FSU Seminoles and the "tomahawk chop" are next too, right?

People need to lighten the hell up.

[Count Steeler]

Washington Rainbows. You know it will happen eventually.

[zulater]

Nope, will never happen. Redskins is one of the top 5 sports brands in American sports. Too much money will be lost on a name change. And bottom line it's all about the Benjamins

[SteelerEmpire]

Don't think they've really ever brushed on this issue since Goodell's been Commish. Knowing his record and how much he likes to change things, you can basically consider the name change done this time around.

[fansince'76]

U.S.O.T.O. (United States of the Offended)

[zulater]

Don't think they've really ever brushed on this issue since Goodell's been Commish. Knowing his record and how much he likes to change things, you can basically consider the name change done this time around.

Wont happen. Bank on it.

[ALLD]

Washington Whiteboys. Has a nice ring to it, but not super.

[bayz101]

Wont happen. Bank on it.

I figure a name-change and re-branding would bring in tons of extra revenue?

[Craic]

Don't know about this one.

I mean, how many of us would be up in arms if a team was introduced as the Niagra N**gers, or Detroit D*gos, or the Columbus K*kes, or Minnesota M*cks, or. . .

For me, this goes a little further than just a little offense, and is distinctly different than "Braves," or "Indians," or the name of a tribe, because the name itself wasn't something attributed to them in a derogatory manner like Redskins was. I'm not saying I agree with changing the name, but I am saying that I can definitely understand the sentiment.

[venom]

It happened to my St Johns Redmen. They had to change their name and now they are called the Red Storm.

[Craic]

Don't know about this one.

I mean, how many of us would be up in arms if a team was introduced as the Niagra N**gers, or Detroit D*gos, or the Columbus K*kes, or Minnesota M*cks, or. . .

For me, this goes a little further than just a little offense, and is distinctly different than "Braves," or "Indians," or the name of a tribe, because the name itself wasn't something attributed to them in a derogatory manner like Redskins was. I'm not saying I agree with changing the name, but I am saying that I can definitely understand the sentiment.

Oh, and point of clarification, three of the four above are either part of my, or my wife's heritage. The fourth is part of the heritage of some of our family, either by law, or by love. So. . .

[SCSTILLER]

I agree that the Washington Redskins should change their name. Saying anything is from Washington is just flat out offensive.

[zulater]

By the way if it were up to me the name Redskins would have been banished long ago. It's a highly offensive name. And I have nothing against names like the Indians, Chiefs, Blackhawks, Braves etc... Those names aren't an offensive slur.

That said I stand by the premise that the name Redskin's isn't going anywhere in the immediate future. As long as Dan Snyder is the owner that name will stand.

[Borski]

I'd be fine with them changing it, it is a racial slur. Distinctly different then other Native American team names such as the Braves or Chiefs.
This would be similar to a team named the New Mexican Wetbacks, that is highly offensive and would never be allowed. Yet the Redskins still have that name because it has been grandfathered in.

For the Record FSU has permission to use the Seminole name: http://www.fsu.edu/news/2005/06/17/seminole.support/

[BnG_Hevn]

'Injuns would be derogatory.

How often was the term redskin used in history? Seriously, in the old west, how often? Granted movies may be a poor source, but I don't recall it being used, at least not too often. Movies usually adhere to the lingo of the time period in which it was made / filmed.

Is this Grosso an American Native?

A tribute to the Tuskagee Airmen, is that not a black group of flyers? Well, I'm offended that you would want to name it after a group of black men.

I absolutely HATE this PC crap. If you don't like the name, literally DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO IT!!!!

[ALLD]

By the way if it were up to me the name Redskins would have been banished long ago. It's a highly offensive name. And I have nothing against names like the Indians, Chiefs, Blackhawks, Braves etc... Those names aren't an offensive slur.

That said I stand by the premise that the name Redskin's isn't going anywhere in the immediate future. As long as Dan Snyder is the owner that name will stand.


If there are Cleveland Browns, why not Washington Snyders?

[fansince'76]

A Linguist's Alternative History of 'Redskin'

By Guy Gugliotta
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, October 3, 2005

For many Americans, both Indian and otherwise, the term "redskin" is a grotesque pejorative, a word that for centuries has been used to disparage and humiliate an entire people, but an exhaustive new study released today makes the case that it did not begin as an insult.

Smithsonian Institution senior linguist Ives Goddard spent seven months researching its history and concluded that "redskin" was first used by Native Americans in the 18th century to distinguish themselves from the white "other" encroaching on their lands and culture.

Read more: A Linguist's Alternative History of 'Redskin' (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/02/AR2005100201139.html)

[Craic]

Read more: A Linguist's Alternative History of 'Redskin' (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/02/AR2005100201139.html)

That was a good read, thanks. I'm always fascinated by etymology. (I know, I know, I'll go get my black framed, taped glasses tomorrow).

The last paragraph however, kind of negates that discussion for use today.
The final message, Shoemaker suggested, is that "even if the Indians were the first to use it, the origin has no relationship to later use. What happened at the beginning doesn't justify it today."

[fansince'76]

That was a good read, thanks. I'm always fascinated by etymology. (I know, I know, I'll go get my black framed, taped glasses tomorrow).

http://images.wikia.com/wikiality/images/a/ac/EggheadJr.jpg

:chuckle:

[Craic]

http://images.wikia.com/wikiality/images/a/ac/EggheadJr.jpg

:chuckle::chuckle:

Here, just for you.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZYXLnq5dLVM/Ti2Nq70PuiI/AAAAAAAAB_I/Gb9mOm_TxxU/s1600/sky-is-falling.jpg

[zulater]

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/05/09/redskins-owner-dan-snyder-on-name-debate-well-never-change-the-name/

WASHINGTON (CBSDC) – “We’ll never change the name. It’s simple. NEVER.”

That’s what Redskins owner Daniel Snyder told USA Today Sports Thursday, with the added caveat, “you can use caps.”

Snyder putting his foot down, so to speak, may be what it takes to bring some finality to a debate that’s raged on all offseason over the offensive nature of the team name ‘Redskins.’

[fansince'76]

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/05/09/redskins-owner-dan-snyder-on-name-debate-well-never-change-the-name/

WASHINGTON (CBSDC) – “We’ll never change the name. It’s simple. NEVER.”

That’s what Redskins owner Daniel Snyder told USA Today Sports Thursday, with the added caveat, “you can use caps.”

Snyder putting his foot down, so to speak, may be what it takes to bring some finality to a debate that’s raged on all offseason over the offensive nature of the team name ‘Redskins.’

Even though I think Snyder is one of the things that's currently wrong with the NFL, I'm glad he at least has the backbone to not acquiesce to this foolishness.

[st33lersguy]

We need to take a stand against these far-left slobs who want to jam political correctness down America's throats. Enough of these loons attempting to infringe on free speech by pretending they are offended over something

[GoSlash27]

In all my years, I've never heard of anybody ever using the word "redskin" as a racial slur.

[7SteelGal43]

Washington Rainbows. You know it will happen eventually.

Shouldn't that one be saved for San Fransissyco ? jus sayin' :nod:

- - - Updated - - -

poppycock. this isn't about the color of our skin but the thinness of it. it's that simple. 'redskin', as many have pointed out, isn't derogatory as I've never in my life heard it used as a slur. leftnutz need to channel that activism into something that matters worth a d*mn.

[7SteelGal43]

I agree that the Washington Redskins should change their name. Saying anything is from Washington is just flat out offensive.


Awesome, SC. And since it is the home of our Federal Govt, maybe we should quit offending Native Americans and name it after our senators and representatives. Besides, I think Washington Jackholes has a nice ring to it. :applaudit:

[zulater]

In all my years, I've never heard of anybody ever using the word "redskin" as a racial slur.


Guess you didn't watch western's as a kid. Believe me in the old time western's when they called a Native American "redskin" it wasn't meant as a nicety.

I think if you polled any of the major Native American tribes they'd probably tell you it's offensive to them.

[GoSlash27]

Guess you didn't watch western's as a kid. Believe me in the old time western's when they called a Native American "redskin" it wasn't meant as a nicety.
I don't recall them using it. I do recall them using the word "negro" tho'. I demand that the United Negro College Fund change their name... :pop2:



I think if you polled any of the major Native American tribes they'd probably tell you it's offensive to them.
I think you're mistaken. http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/downloads/political_communication/naes/2004_03_redskins_09-24_pr.pdf


Most American Indians say that calling Washi
ngton’s professional football team the “Redskins”
does not bother them, the University of Penns
ylvania’s National Annenberg Election Survey
shows.
Ninety percent of Indians took that position, while 9 percent said they found the name
“offensive.” One percent had no answer. The marg
in of sampling error for those findings was
plus or minus two percentage points.
Because they make up a very small proportion
of the total population, the responses of 768
people who said they were Indians or Native Amer
icans were collected over a very long period of
polling, from October 7, 2003 through Septembe
r 20, 2004. They included Indians from every
state except Alaska and Hawaii, where the Anne
nberg survey does not interview. The question
that was put to them was “The professional football team in Washington calls itself the
Washington Redskins. As a Native American, do
you find that name offensive or doesn’t it
bother you?”

[steelreserve]

In all my years, I've never heard of anybody ever using the word "redskin" as a racial slur.

I think it's one of those things where maybe you COULD use it as a racial slur, but most people wouldn't think you were being a racist, so much as wonder how you managed to stow away on Doc Brown's time machine train from the 1850s.

Really the whole thing looks to me like a bunch of white people arguing with each other over what they think other people are offended by. Until that poll FS76 found, I hadn't heard a single word about this from any Indian tribe, group, or individual person, either for it or against it.

[zulater]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2013/05/09/native-americans-washington-mascot-fight/2148877/

WASHINGTON -- Amanda Blackhorse has never met Daniel Snyder, but she's thought about what she might say to him if she ever does.

"I'd ask him, 'Would you dare call me a redskin, right here, to my face?' " she says. "And I suspect that, no, he would not do that."

Blackhorse is Navajo and a psychiatric social worker and the named plaintiff in Blackhorse et al v. Pro-Football Inc., a federal suit in which a group of five American Indians seek to strip the federal trademark rights from the football team Snyder owns.

Blackhorse and her fellow petitioners say the term redskin is a racial slur and that the National Football League franchise in Washington that has long used it as its name should not have federal protection for a trademark that disparages. Team attorneys say the name is meant to honor American Indians, not disparage them.

So any of you defending the name willing to go up to Amanda and to her face call her Redskin?

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/sportingscene/redskins.jpg

these guys really look like they're honoring Native American heritage!

[zulater]

he strongest argument for keeping the name is that Native Americans themselves aren’t unanimous in objecting to what Indian critics call the “R-word.”

“It doesn’t bother me one bit. There are other issues that we should be concerned about,” said George Blanchard, governor of the Absentee Shawnee Tribe of Oklahoma, which counts about 3,000 members.

Some members of Blanchard’s tribe send their children to McLoud High School, whose team is also called the Redskins. The Washington team has pointed to the McLoud nickname as evidence that the word was acceptable to Native Americans.

However, other chiefs and national Indian leaders said the number of Native Americans who share Blanchard’s view has declined with time. Most Indians would prefer to see the Redskins name discarded, they said.

“If it went through a vote [of Indians], I think it would be overwhelming to drop it. I’ve always thought the word [Redskins] was very offensive,” said George Tiger, chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, which is also based in Oklahoma and has 75,000 members.

All major Native American organizations have formally called on sports teams to discard Indian names and mascots.

Here in the Washington region, the chief of the Piscataway Indian Nation has been staging protests against the team’s name since 1980.

“If the team had another name related to black folks, that stadium would be on fire,” Billy Redwing Tayac said. “Redskins is a racial slur for North American Indians.”
Initially, the team declined to comment. That quickly became impossible, so General Manager Bruce Allen spoke up Thursday and said there was no reason to change the name.

“There’s nothing that we feel is offensive,” Allen said. “It’s ludicrous to think that in any way we’re trying to upset anybody.”

The second half of that quote is fine. Many Indian advocates concede the team is not consciously “trying” to antagonize them.

The wording of the first half is damning, however. Allen doesn’t understand (or won’t acknowledge) that it’s not up to him, a white man, to decide what offends Native Americans.

“They’re saying that it’s an honor. They’re not taking our word for it, Native people’s word for it, that we don’t want this,” said Robert Holden, deputy director of the National Congress of American Indians. It is the largest, oldest and most representative organization of Native American tribes.

The team put up postings on its Web site noting that 70 high school teams, including the one at McLoud, use the name Redskins. However, the team neglected to mention that a larger number of schools at various levels have dropped such names.

In 1970, about 500 team names were in the “red slur” category, such as Redskins, Red Men or Red Raiders, according to the Morning Star Institute, an Indian advocacy group. Now the total is less than 100.

The number is about to shrink again. In New York, Cooperstown High School is preparing to drop its Redskins name after students petitioned the Board of Education to make the switch. The Oneida Indian Nation reached out to the school district to support the change.

“From the board’s perspective, and from students’ perspective, it has an offensive connotation to Native peoples,” Superintendent C.J. Hebert said.

Please heed that point, Dan Snyder. Sometimes being politically correct is just plain correct

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-02-16/local/37131410_1_indian-names-and-mascots-tayac-redskins

[GoSlash27]

9 out of every 10 Native Americans aren't offended.
Yeah... "not unanimous" is *one* way to describe it. :lol:
/liberals...

[zulater]

9 out of every 10 Native Americans aren't offended.
Yeah... "not unanimous" is *one* way to describe it. :lol:
/liberals...

So would you call a Native American- Redskin to their face?

[GoSlash27]

Hell no I wouldn't. This ain't 1854.
But I *would* call a Native American a "Redskins fan" if they happened to be a Redskins fan.
Is this your working definition for "derogatory"?
/ I know how you P.C. types get...
// maybe next time you should quote a "community organizer" in Village Voice...

[zulater]

Hell no I wouldn't. This ain't 1854.
But I *would* call a Native American a "Redskins fan" if they happened to be a Redskins fan.
Is this your working definition for "derogatory"?
/ I know how you P.C. types get...
// maybe next time you should quote a "community organizer" in Village Voice...

I'm far from P.C. I doubt anyone on this board familiar with my posting would label me as such. Of course you're the only person on this board who thinks I'm a liberal, so really why should I be shocked that you would make that assertion? :lol:

Some things just don't pass the eye test ( so to speak) and this is one of them to me. I don't think there's anything wrong with the names Blackhawks, Braves, Chiefs, even Indians being associated with sports teams.

But Redskins comes across as a slur, even though the Redskins obviously have no hurtfull intent continuing on with the nickname.

I'm not going to lose sleep over this issue. I'm not going to chastise Redskin fans steeped in the tradition of their franchise who defend the name. But I think it's a name that in time will eventually be changed. Just not In Dan snyder's time.

and again it doesn't bother me greatly, but I can sympathize with those that it does offend.

[st33lersguy]

The fact that there seems to be a large number of native Americans not offended by the fact that a team calls themselves the Redskins give no credibility for an argument for a name-change. The people staging these protests should grow up and understand there are much much worse things in life

[GoSlash27]

This must be some new definition of "far from P.C." I haven't seen before. You just want to impose your sensitivities on everyone else because someone somewhere *might* be offended (which apparently ain't 9 out of every 10 Native Americans) by a term that was never intended to offend *anybody*.
Not P.C.
/Riiight... ;)

[GoSlash27]

The fact that there seems to be a large number of native Americans not offended by the fact that a team calls themselves the Redskins give no credibility for an argument for a name-change. The people staging these protests should grow up and understand there are much much worse things in life

In this case "large number" and "vast majority" may be used interchangeably.

[zulater]

This must be some new definition of "far from P.C." I haven't seen before. You just want to impose your sensitivities on everyone else because someone somewhere *might* be offended (which apparently ain't 9 out of every 10 Native Americans).
Not P.C.
/Riiight... ;)

I don't want to impose anything. It's my opinion that a voluntary name change would be the right thing to do. That it's not going to happen doesn't particularly bother me. But at the same token I can sympathize with those that find the name Redskin offensive, and I don't see their position as unreasonable.

Now leave me alone please. I'm tired of you purposely pushing my buttons.

[GoSlash27]

"Not unreasonable"? A term that nobody uses in a derogatory fashion (in fact nobody uses *at all* other in reference to a certain sports franchise)... and does not offend 90% of the people it's not intended to offend... Is still somehow offensive and should be changed?? That's "reasonable"?? :huh:
You *do* realize that there are people out there who are just looking for reasons to be offended, and that nobody has a right to not be offended, don't you?
/ disagreeing with you isn't "pushing your buttons"...

[zulater]

"Not unreasonable"? A term that nobody uses in a derogatory fashion (in fact nobody uses *at all* other in reference to a certain sports franchise)... and does not offend 90% of the people it's not intended to offend... Is still somehow offensive and should be changed?? That's "reasonable"?? :huh:
You *do* realize that there are people out there who are just looking for reasons to be offended, and that nobody has a right to not be offended, don't you?
/ disagreeing with you isn't "pushing your buttons"...

I said me piece on the issue. I don't think anything I posted ( that still is here :lol: ) is outlandish, or unreasonable. It's my opinion, I realize and respect it's not the majority view. But I feel that I'm entitled to hold this opinion and don't see why it's bothersome to anyone that I do so?

[GoSlash27]

I said me piece on the issue. I don't think anything I posted ( that still is here :lol: ) is outlandish, or unreasonable. It's my opinion, I realize and respect it's not the majority view. But I feel that I'm entitled to hold this opinion and don't see why it's bothersome to anyone that I do so?

It's not. Likewise, it's not bothersome or "pushing your buttons" to disagree with your admittedly minority view. Difference between us is I won't follow you around cussing at you just because we happen to disagree ;)

[zulater]

It's not. Likewise, it's not bothersome or "pushing your buttons" to disagree with your admittedly minority view. Difference between us is I won't follow you around cussing at you just because we happen to disagree ;)

I'm not following you around. I didn't post a thread specific to you, as you have done.


And no one else really wants or needs to be bothered with this.


So how about we agree to disgaree without snide parting remarks or disrepecting the other's opinion?

I understand what you said fine on this subject. You've made your points clear, and I don't find them unreasonable.

And just so you understand I'm not suggesting change be forced on the Redskins.

[GoSlash27]

I'm not following you around. I didn't post a thread specific to you, as you have done.


And no one else really wants or needs to be bothered with this.


So how about we agree to disgaree without snide parting remarks or disrepecting the other's opinion?

I understand what you said fine on this subject. You've made your points clear, and I don't find them unreasonable.

And just so you understand I'm not suggesting change be forced on the Redskins.

haha quite a change of course from your earlier (removed) posts :D

I'm always agreeable to disagreeing with you, zu. Particularly when you get on your liberal tangents ;)

My position is that nobody is insulted by the word "redskins" other than those that really *want* to be insulted, and those people should never be catered to.

[zulater]

haha quite a change of course from your earlier (removed) posts :D

I'm always agreeable to disagreeing with you, zu. Particularly when you get on your liberal tangents ;)


Me liberal? You really do have issues.

[steelreserve]

So any of you defending the name willing to go up to Amanda and to her face call her Redskin?

No, it would make much more sense for me to leave her the fuck alone and get on with my business, instead of seeking out some idiot fight over the name of a football team. For that matter, the converse is also true.

If I owned the team, maybe I'd have to think a little harder about that, but seriously - whatever. The word "Redskin" has been irrelevant for probably 100 years in this country as anything except the name of the football team. The whole thing is as stupid as that fight over the pledge of allegiance. How about this: You don't like the name, just root against them like a normal person.

[zulater]

No, it would make much more sense for me to leave her the fuck alone and get on with my business, instead of seeking out some idiot fight over the name of a football team. For that matter, the converse is also true.

If I owned the team, maybe I'd have to think a little harder about that, but seriously - whatever. The word "Redskin" has been irrelevant for probably 100 years in this country as anything except the name of the football team. The whole thing is as stupid as that fight over the pledge of allegiance. How about this: You don't like the name, just root against them like a normal person.

I don't root for or against them. The name means nothing to me. But I can understand others sensitivity to it, and that's all I'm expressing here.

[BnG_Hevn]

In all my years, I've never heard of anybody ever using the word "redskin" as a racial slur.

You must not have grown up on an indian reservation then.

I grew up on one in Western NY, just South of Buffalo.

Although the names white eyes and pale face never bothered me, I always would respond with redskin, but that didn't bother them either. I was trying to enrage them but it didn't work.

What works better is fat, lazy drunkards.

[fansince'76]

It's time...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ6RjP7MlXk

[steelreserve]

I don't root for or against them. The name means nothing to me. But I can understand others sensitivity to it, and that's all I'm expressing here.

Sorry, I didn't mean "you" as in you yourself, but the theoretical "you" as in whoever is up in arms about it. I get your point, and I get how someone could be offended by the name, I just think it's a silly thing for them to be worked up over, like if someone called me Yankee or something else that's been out of date by an eternity.

[XxKnightxX]

http://i.qkme.me/3ot63l.jpg