Interview with an ex Muslim. "Islam is a cult"

[zulater]

The Iraqi-born native Arabic-speaker who goes by the name "I. Q. Rassooli" has lived in Europe since his university days studying engineering in England. His mind is an inquiring and a questioning one, characteristics not much appreciated among the conformist Muslim community of his origins. And so he stayed in the West and, for the next 23 years, undertook "as thorough a study of Islam as humanly possible," as he says.

His research and analysis about Muhammad, the Qur'an, Hadiths, Shariah, Arab and Islamic history, and a comparative, contrasting study of those with the Hebrew Bible, the New Testament, Zoroastrian (Persian) beliefs, pagan Arab religions and more culminated in a thesis that no publisher would print. Instead, al-Rassooli created a website, www.inthenameofallah.org that now contains over 780 chapters. He also put up over 280 audio/video chapters on YouTube that collectively received over 1.59 million visitors and 3,976 subscribers in the two years before YouTube removed took them down. Luckily, al-Rassooli had them all backed up on his blog site at www.the-koran.blogspot.com and he then put them back up on YouTube under another name. His website is at www.alrassooli.com

Al-Rassooli also founded a movement called the Ummat al Kuffar (Nation of Infidels) that he hopes will develop and grow, given that some 80% of all humanity are not Muslims but rather the object of Islamic supremacist conquest intentions. He says his mission is the exposure of the facts and reality about Islam, based on the primary Arabic language sources themselves.

Family Security Matters Contributing Writer Clare Lopez recently was granted the opportunity to interview I.Q. al-Rassooli about Islam. Here are his replies to her questions.

1. Is there such a thing as "moderate Islam"?

It is very difficult for decent, well-meaning Americans and Europeans - who truly believe the propaganda of Muslims that Islam is only a religion and as such must have redeeming characteristics - to be told by myself and others who know Islam from the inside that the truth is quite different.

Unfortunately, most Americans - as well as most of humanity - have been misled because Muhammadan Islam is not merely a religion but a cult belief system, the cult of Muhammad.

Believing Muslims must follow Sharia. It is obligatory for all Muslims, everywhere, for all time. Sharia - based upon Muhammad's Quran and Sunna (Muhammad's acts, deeds, thoughts, behavior, etc. as recorded in the hadiths and Sira) - explicitly commands deceit, hatred, misogyny, racism, and warmongering against non-Muslims. There is no other "religion" that does this and this is why I say that Islam cannot be considered merely a "religion" like any other - and it most certainly cannot be called "moderate".

For this is the command from Allah to all Muslims, as recorded in the Qur'an:

Al Tauba 9:29 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle [Muhammad] nor acknowledge the religion of truth [ISLAM] (even if they are) of the People of the Book [Christians & Jews] until they pay the Jizya [onerous Tax for not being a Muslim] with willing submission and feel themselves humiliated"

Muhammad 47:4 "Therefore when ye meet the Unbelievers smite at their necks; at length when ye have thoroughly subdued them bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom"

2. How about "moderate Muslims"?

There is no such thing as a ‘moderate Muslim'. Every Muslim - especially the males - is fundamentally a JIHADI. That is, one who will fight Unbelievers (currently 80% of humanity including ALL Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics, etc.) - any and all those who do not follow Muhammad.

Sharia gives the Unbelievers the following three choices:

(A) Convert to Islam (whether we like it or not)

(B) Be subject to Islam as Dhimmis in humiliation and degradation forever

(C) Be Exterminated

Al Imran 3:85 " If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah) never will it be accepted of him ..."

Al Tauba 9:33 "It is He (Allah) who hath sent His apostle (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to proclaim it over all other religions..."



3. Why should defenders of Western civilization be concerned about core Islamic doctrine, law, and scripture?

Very simple. Sharia is the nemesis of Democracy. Sharia is the destroyer of all known freedoms. Sharia is anathema to genuine individual liberty and must NEVER take root on the soil of any nation that is not Islamic. Under Sharia, not even a blade of grass can grow.

4. Is the classic Islam of Muhammad and his companions and the early scholars compatible with Western-style liberal democracy?

For those who have still not understood what I am revealing, there is no concept of Democracy either in the psyche or the language of Islam. That is why the Arabs and Muslims use the Arabized Greek word for "democracy," calling it "DEMOQRATIYAH"!

There is absolutely nothing ‘liberal' about either Sharia or Muhammadan Islam. Muhammad, after all, declared to his followers

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 4.73 Narrated by Abdullah bin Abi Aufa

Allah's Apostle said, "Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords."

In fact, believing Muslims are not allowed to so much as question Islam, again per the Qur'an:

O ye who believe! ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble -- Q 5:101

...the command of Allah is a decree determined -- Q 33:38

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5. If people, Muslims and non-Muslims alike, took the time to read and study the Qur'an, what would they learn?

I have spent more than 30 years on these subjects and not once did I attempt to change the indoctrinated mind of a follower of Muhammad, knowing full well it would be extremely difficult.

Most important of all, Americans must understand that any Muslim who leaves the faith would be killed by his own ‘loving' family and or friends. Even in our Western democracies, most of those who leave Islam must do so in secrecy.

"Whoever changes his Islamic religion, then kill him." - Bukhari 9.84.57

"When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostasizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed." [Reliance of the Traveller, A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law (08.1)]

"If they [Muslims] had gotten rid of the punishment [often death] for apostasy, Islam would not exist today." [Yousef al-Qaradawi, Senior Jurist of the Muslim Brotherhood, on Egyptian TV]

Any decent and fair-minded person reading Muhammad's Quran must come to only ONE conclusion: It is a rambling, incoherent, jumbled scripture of hatred and enmity that no true God would have ever revealed to anyone.



6. What is the most important thing Westerners should know about the life of the Muslim prophet Muhammad?

First and foremost, Muhammad should not be called a "prophet" because there is nowhere in his Qur'an and Hadith that he prophesized anything. Instead, in the Qur'an, the hadiths, and the Sira (biography of Muhammad), we read in the original Islamic scriptures themselves that Muhammad committed crimes against humanity on a massive scale: these scriptures themselves recount that Muhammad ordered assassinations of the elderly and nursing mothers because they ridiculed him; that he raped and enslaved captured women; that he personally participated in the mass killing of POWs; that he led a military campaign of genocide against the Jewish tribes of the Arabian Peninsula; and that he married a six-year-old and raped her at aged nine (his child bride, Aisha). I say this not because of anger or a mere wish to be insulting. I do so based entirely on the Islamic records themselves that I can quote in chapter and verse to support my assertions.

For example, each of these assertions may be found precisely as described in the Sirat (biographies) of Muhammad, as written by faithful Muslims. One of the most authoritative of those biographies comes to us from the Muslim historian Ibn Ishak, as translated by Alfred Guillaume: "The Life of Muhammad." It is available on Amazon.com at http://www.amazon.com/Life-Muhammad-I-Ishaq/dp/0196360331

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7. Is there a significant number of Muslims in the world today who are willing to contradict, either publicly or within their own communities, Islamic teachings on things like the death penalty for adultery, apostasy, or homosexuality?

No Muslim can live more than a few seconds if he/she in any way shape or form contradicts anything in Muhammad's Quran or says anything against him. Only a handful of apostates from Islam can do so in our democracies.

Please understand that the instant any follower of Muhammad criticizes anything about their cult belief system, that person becomes instantly an infidel worthy of death and destruction.

Again, to cite from the Reliance of the Traveler: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law:

Acts That Entail Leaving Islam

08.7 (3) to speak words that imply unbelief...

(4) to revile Allah or His messenger...

(7) to deny any verse of the Koran or anything which by scholarly consensus belongs to it...

(14) to deny the obligatory character of something which by the consensus of Muslims...is part of Islam...

8. What can or should free people do to ensure that their societies do not fall under the domination of Islamic Law (shariah) ?

Each and every American who cherishes their Constitution and FREEDOM (of thought, belief, association, politics, religion, thought, etc.) must not allow any judge or administration to allow Islamic Law (shariah) the slightest chance of taking root on American soil because Sharia is like a virulent virus, the most deadly known to humankind.

My conclusions based on over 30 years of studies are:

Islam is NOT a Religion but most definitely a CULT belief system as well as a legal, military, political, and social system of totalitarian control.
Allah is most assuredly NOT the same as the God of Jesus, Moses and Abraham because Allah is only the NAME of the supreme moon god of Pagan Arabia centuries before Muhammad and his Quran and represented to this day in the Kaba'a by an ancient meteorite called the Black Stone.
Jihad is most definitely NOT a spiritual struggle to commune with God but eternal WAR against all Unbelievers until all humanity is subject to Sharia.
No god called Allah nor any angel called Gabriel ever revealed a single verse to Muhammad because every letter, word, verse and Chapter in the Quran is the product of Muhammad's imaginings, the secretions of his depraved mind, his Alter Ego, his Autobiography, but very cleverly projected into the unsuspecting mouths of Allah and Gabriel to give them the aura of sanctity and divinity.
It is by Divine Will (Qidra Ilahyyah) and divine Justice (Haq Ilahi) that the very Hadiths that explain to the followers of Muhammad his Quran and Sunna, are the very same that utterly DISCREDIT Muhammad as a prophet and the ALLEGED divine origin of his Quran.
Although my statements may sound outrageous and hyperbolic to those hearing and seeing them for the first time, I can and do (as in this interview) corroborate every single assertion that I make with citations from the Islamic scriptures themselves.

http://www.islam-watch.org/authors/161-rassooli/1281-shocking-interview-with-iraqi-ex-muslim-i-q-rassooli.html

[zulater]

http://thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/gay-man-stoned-somalia.jpg

Gay man stoned to death in Somalia for the crime of being gay.

Guess that cured him of it?

[st33lersguy]

Where are the Muslim moderates speaking out against the extremists? I only ever hear a few ever speak out against them.

[zulater]

Where are the Muslim moderates speaking out against the extremists? I only ever hear a few ever speak out against them.


They're not allowed. To question any part of the Koran is a crime punishable by death. As the man says, there's no such thing as practicing moderate Muslim. That's not to say in their heart many aren't moderate, and don't have questions about their faith. But they wont dare discuss them openly, because doing so would put themselves or members of their family in peril, even in the most "moderate" of Islamic homes.

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Hell I'm not Muslim, but I can't guarantee just starting this thread, even though I'm clearly not of that faith, could see me get repurcussions if this thread were somehow to take off on facebook or twitter. That's the nature of the beast.

[zulater]

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/sharia-law-about-to-enter-the-spanish-legislator-to-assure-muslim-adopted-chilren-have-not-converted-to-christianity/
The Spanish government will allow Moroccan religious authorities to take control of children up to 18 years of age to make sure they have not been converted to Christianity.

In the name of Sharia it designates the set of rules of Muslim life. Islamic states are adopting it as their own legislation. They are even doing this – in partially-in Islamic countries that are not Islamic states.

In our case it is the subject of adoption. Apparently many couples want to adopt Spanish children outside our borders. We see that there are not enough children here.

Anyway, in Morocco, since the Islamists came to power in January 2012 [you know, the Arab spring], for a child to be adopted by a Moroccan Spanish family, it requires the child to remain culturally and religiously Muslim. Furthermore, the Spanish Government should be obliged to control the process [?] And allow Moroccan religious authorities to take control of children up to 18 years of age to ensure they have not been converted to Christianity.

The demands of an Islamic country is not a surprise for us, for we know far too well their lack of religious freedom. What is truly inconceivable is that the Spanish government accept these conditions. Well, what you just read, this unprecedented advance of Sharia in our country, will soon be included in our legislation.

Some questions that confront us are: What about religious freedom? And the Spanish Constitution? What about the West?

Apart from other issues such as the control of another state on our citizens within our borders, I think that no government has the right to create spaces within the country in which it suspends the right to religious freedom.

By observing the optimism and “normality” with some sectors towards such radical secularism when we hear this kind of news, it is understood that for some people the concepts of democracy, freedom, human rights, etc.. both extol them-however-are underlined with its hatred of Christianity (I am speaking now of Spain, of course). They forget, or ignore, that all these rights and freedoms are the result of a culture steeped in the Christian faith.

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Op-Ed: A Baby is Stoned for Being an "Occupier"

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/13047#.UVDWThyTgTY

[zulater]

I have nothing against Muslims. I realize most of them were born to it, and to be born to it is virtually a life sentence, like it or not. So no I understand and even sympathize. And oh yeah, I know most would say, save your pity, we're just fine with who we are. And that's ok too. 90% of most people become something close to their parents in practive in the end after all.

But the more I learn of it the more I think it's a religion based on hate. Yeah I know all religions have their dark side. There's a lot of violence in the Bible after all. But if my kid wants to become a Jew or Hindu no one is going to kill him or his parents as a punishment.


Jesus might not be a perfect Prophet to some, but he didn't marry a 6 year old and consumate that relationship when she was 9. He didn't torture, enslave, rape, and mass murder his doubters, and persecutors.

Though attrocities have admittedly been committed in his name, to the best of my knowledge Jesus died free of other's blood on his hands.

[steeldawg]

all religions are cults just some are more extreme than others , personally i think they are all nuts and full of crap.

[zulater]

all religions are cults just some are more extreme than others , personally i think they are all nuts and full of crap.

Yeah Christians and Jews regularly kill or stone Gays.

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Right now we're arguing in this country whether Gays should have the right to marry. Think that's going to happen ever in an Islamic state Dawg?

[steeldawg]

Yeah Christians and Jews regularly kill or stone Gays. I didnt say they were violent but as far as what they believe, its nuts.

[zulater]

http://www.bosnewslife.com/27330-breaking-news-pakistan-blasphemy-girl-facing-prison-mother-death-sentence

Pakistani authorities have reopened the trial against a mentally challenged Christian girl on charges of "blasphemy" while a Christian mother faces a possible death sentence for allegedly making "derogatory remarks" about Islam's prophet Mohammed, lawyers told BosNewsLife Saturday, March 23.

"A police investigator asked the Supreme Court in Islamabad to reopen the case" against Rimsha Masih, 14, "saying he was pressured by the government to drop charges against her after an international outcry," said the Legal Evangelical Association Development (LEAD) group.

Rimsha was jailed August 17 in a prison near Islamabad, the capital, after allegedly burning pages with verses of the Koran, viewed as holy book by Muslims. Her detention at Adiala Jail triggered international protests because of her age and a medical report confirming that she was mentally handicapped.

Amid mounting pressure, Rimsha was flown to safety on September 8 and eventually acquitted on the charges, though she remains in hiding. On the outskirts of Islamabad families are afraid to return to their Christian community in the city's Mehrabadi district because the girl lived there.

Besides Rimsha, who may face life imprisonment, a court is also considering a death sentence against 47-year-old Martha Bibi after years of legal wrangling, BosNewsLife learned.

COURT APPEARANCE

Bibi, who is married and has 7 children, will face a court in the city of Lahore on March 27, said her lawyer Mushtaq Gill.

"She was detained in January 2007 in her village of Kot Nanak Sigh for allegedly making "derogatory remarks" about Prophet Mohammed in an argument with a Muslim woman," explained Gill, who is also director of the LEAD advocacy group.

Bibi has always strongly denied the charges.

The blasphemy case was registered at a nearby police station where she "was arrested and put behind bars after being beaten and tortured by Muslims," the lawyer said.

Though he managed to get her released on bail of 100,000 Pakistani Rupee ($1,000) three months later, she remained concerned about her future, he said.


Yeah dawg. all religions are pretty much the same. :sarcasm:

[steeldawg]

Yeah Christians and Jews regularly kill or stone Gays.

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Right now we're arguing in this country whether Gays should have the right to marry. Think that's going to happen ever in an Islamic state Dawg?

Probably no time soon but hopefully one day, but their beleifs are still nuts too me, the fact that gay marriage is even an arguement is mind blowing to me.

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http://www.bosnewslife.com/27330-breaking-news-pakistan-blasphemy-girl-facing-prison-mother-death-sentence

Pakistani authorities have reopened the trial against a mentally challenged Christian girl on charges of "blasphemy" while a Christian mother faces a possible death sentence for allegedly making "derogatory remarks" about Islam's prophet Mohammed, lawyers told BosNewsLife Saturday, March 23.

"A police investigator asked the Supreme Court in Islamabad to reopen the case" against Rimsha Masih, 14, "saying he was pressured by the government to drop charges against her after an international outcry," said the Legal Evangelical Association Development (LEAD) group.

Rimsha was jailed August 17 in a prison near Islamabad, the capital, after allegedly burning pages with verses of the Koran, viewed as holy book by Muslims. Her detention at Adiala Jail triggered international protests because of her age and a medical report confirming that she was mentally handicapped.

Amid mounting pressure, Rimsha was flown to safety on September 8 and eventually acquitted on the charges, though she remains in hiding. On the outskirts of Islamabad families are afraid to return to their Christian community in the city's Mehrabadi district because the girl lived there.

Besides Rimsha, who may face life imprisonment, a court is also considering a death sentence against 47-year-old Martha Bibi after years of legal wrangling, BosNewsLife learned.

COURT APPEARANCE

Bibi, who is married and has 7 children, will face a court in the city of Lahore on March 27, said her lawyer Mushtaq Gill.

"She was detained in January 2007 in her village of Kot Nanak Sigh for allegedly making "derogatory remarks" about Prophet Mohammed in an argument with a Muslim woman," explained Gill, who is also director of the LEAD advocacy group.

Bibi has always strongly denied the charges.

The blasphemy case was registered at a nearby police station where she "was arrested and put behind bars after being beaten and tortured by Muslims," the lawyer said.

Though he managed to get her released on bail of 100,000 Pakistani Rupee ($1,000) three months later, she remained concerned about her future, he said.


Yeah dawg. all religions are the same. :sarcasm:

Zu i didnt say all religionsare the same i said they are all cults and they are all nuts. Of course beliefs in religions are different its what makes them different religions, but it doesnt make them any less nuts.

[zulater]

Probably no time soon but hopefully one day, but their beleifs are still nuts too me, the fact that gay marriage is even an arguement is mind blowing to me.

Yeah it's nuts to me too. Consenting adults should be free to do with who and as they please. Besides why should straights be forced to bear the burden of supporting divorce lawyers! :lol:

[zulater]

Probably no time soon but hopefully one day, but their beleifs are still nuts too me, the fact that gay marriage is even an arguement is mind blowing to me.

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Zu i didnt say all religionsare the same i said they are all cults and they are all nuts. Of course beliefs in religions are different its what makes them different religions, but it doesnt make them any less nuts.

I don't think Christianity is a cult, nor do I think Judaism , or Hinduism is either. And whether you think someone's views are "nuts" doesn't matter. What matters is whether they infringe upon your right as a human to Life Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Granted some fringe religious groups in this country might pose a nuisanse to some segments of society.


But not to the degree that's common under Islamic led countries. Not even in the same ball park

[steeldawg]

I will say that islam is a violent religion but they have one hell of a retirement plan, 72 virgins that is very intriguing. Its also smart to give you the 72 virgins after death because i believe if you tried to satisfy 72 women while you were alive it would certainly kill you.

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I don't think Christianity is a cult, nor do I think Judaism , or Hinduism is either. And whether you think someone's views are "nuts" doesn't matter. What matters is whether they infringe upon your right as a human to Life Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Granted some fringe religious groups in this country might pose a nuisanse to some segments of society.


But not to the degree that's common under Islamic led countries. Not even in the same ball park

Well by definition all religions are cults, and it only matters too me if i think their views are nuts.

[zulater]

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Opinion-Polls.htm

These polls are pretty revealing about how accepting of terrorist tactics "mainstream" Muslims are.

[zulater]

Egyptian mosque turned into house of torture for Christians after Muslim Brotherhood protest

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/03/26/egyptian-mosque-turned-into-house-torture-for-christians-after-muslim/#ixzz2Ohuhe48O

[steeldawg]

Yes they are people raised in a crazy violent religion and therefore they do crazy and violent things.

[Seven]

all religions are cults just some are more extreme than others , personally i think they are all nuts and full of crap.

I'm wouldn't call myself religious or even spiritual, but religions such as Christianity and Islam aren't cults. Christians and Muslims combined account for over 50% of religious believers worldwide; just by definition you can't refer to them as such.

"Cult: a relatively small group of people sharing religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or irrational."

You're welcome to think all religions are "nuts", I'd put myself tenatively in that camp at the moment as well, but the major followings are not cults. I do believe many religions encourage sinister acts, which is probably more of what you mean anyway - and I agree. I've been dabbling in reading religious texts from various beliefs as I want to understand and educate myself on the subject more, but it all seems so nonsensical to me I can't read very much at one sitting without feeling as if I'm wasting large chunks of otherwise valuable time.

[Seven]

I'm wouldn't call myself religious or even spiritual

You're welcome to think all religions are "nuts", I'd put myself tenatively in that camp at the moment as well, but the major followings are not cults. I do believe many religions encourage sinister acts, which is probably more of what you mean anyway - and I agree. I've been dabbling in reading religious texts from various beliefs as I want to understand and educate myself on the subject more, but it all seems so nonsensical to me I can't read very much at one sitting without feeling as if I'm wasting large chunks of otherwise valuable time.

I don't want to derail this thread into a personal theology discussion, but I just wanted to make clear that by no accounts do I disregard the possibility of creation or "god". I've experienced enough unexplainable occurrences in my still short life that I definitely don't discount the possibility of a higher being. I'm just not there at the moment, maybe someday I will be. The possibilities of both divine and scientific explanations for things that are currently beyond our comprehension are fascinating and I don't have a closed mind to any of them. Just wanted to make that clear as I thought my comments above could be taken as representing an entirely atheological perspective which is not how I feel at all.

[zulater]

Islamist terrorists and fanatics are methodically exterminating the 2,000-year-old Christian civilization of the Middle East through oppression, threats, appropriations and deadly violence.

Our media ignore the intensifying savagery against Christians in Muslim Brotherhood-controlled Egypt. Unconfirmed reports assert that, last month, Muslim Brothers dragged Christian protesters to a mosque and tortured them — but our reporters won’t look into an Islamist Abu Ghraib.

For a century and a half, the varied strands of Middle East Christianity have faced increasingly fierce pogroms and, for the Armenians, outright genocide. But with the rise of Wahhabi and Salafist terror, the long, slow-motion Holocaust accelerated.

Western liberals romanticize barbaric cultures but have no interest in the destruction — before their averted eyes — of a great and brilliant religious civilization. It’s as if they accept the Islamist creed that Christians don’t belong in the realms of Islam.

But the Middle East was more than just Christianity’s birthplace. The faith we know matured in the Middle East and North Africa, from Ephesus and Antioch to Alexandria and beyond. St. Augustine, the most influential church father after St. Paul, was a North African.

Rome was a latecomer to Christian authority. Through the Middle Ages, substantially more Christians lived east of Constantinople (now Istanbul) than in Europe, the faith’s backwater, whose northern reaches had yet to be evangelized.

Christianity’s greatest thinkers, greatest monuments and greatest triumphs for its first 1,000 years rose in the Middle East. Even the Muslim conquest and relative servitude could not dislodge Christianity. In the worst of times, Christianity turned the other cheek and endured. Some Christians flourished.

Today, the end is in sight.

In Iraq, cities such as Mosul and Saddam’s hometown, Tikrit, were once vital centers of Christianity. But the country’s Christian population, estimated at up to 2 million a decade ago, has fallen by half — perhaps by three-quarters.

Over 2 million Christians in Syria dread Islamist terror and religious cleansing so much, they lean toward the vicious Assad regime, which at least shielded minorities. Those who can, flee the country.

Christians were early supporters of Arab nationalism. One of the fiercest Palestinian leaders, George Habash, was a Christian, as was the wife of Yasser Arafat. Their thanks? Two-thirds of the West Bank’s and more of Gaza’s Christians have been driven out. They’re now a small minority even in Bethlehem (a situation ignored by our visiting president).

Egypt has the region’s largest remaining Christian population, at least 10 million Copts. With rare exceptions, they’ve long been confined to squalid quarters and treated as third-class citizens. Now the Salafist fanatics have been unleashed. The nation’s Muslim Brotherhood rulers could put a stop to anti-Christian violence, but appear willing to let the Salafists do the dirty work for them. They’re playing bad cop, not-so-bad cop.

And we’ll send the regime at least a billion dollars this year — with no stipulations or conditions except that military-related funds must purchase US-made or US-licensed equipment. With Egypt’s economy in desperate straits and the Brotherhood’s popularity fading, we’re propping up religious-cleansing bigots.

Christians in Iran? Gone. Turkey? Almost gone. Saudi Arabia? The once-thriving Christian and Jewish populations of Mecca and Medina were finished off centuries ago.

And in Lebanon, the only Middle East country that until recently had a Christian majority, Christian rights have been so threatened by Sunni fanaticism that some Christians have reached out to Shia Hezbollah in their desperate hunt for allies.

Far to the east, in Pakistan, Christians face trumped-up charges of insulting Islam or rape, beatings, murder and church bombings. And we still pour billions into Pakistan.

It’s the end of a world as we know it.

If Islam is a “religion of peace,” it’s time to show the evidence to the endangered Christians of the Middle East.

Of course, not all Christians are angels, nor are all Muslims demons. Most humans of any faith just want to get through the day. And some Christians have collaborated with odious Baathist regimes (usually, to ensure their community’s survival). Nor are most Muslims active supporters of the religious cleansing of Christians from their shared homelands.

But disappointingly few Muslims actively defend religious minorities. It’s not unlike Nazi Germany, where most Germans didn’t want to murder Jews, but were complicit through their silence.

If a Michigan mosque is defaced with graffiti, it makes national news and the Justice Department views it as a hate crime. It’s time for our government and media to apply the same standard abroad on behalf of Christians.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/christian_catastrophe_lX4yqB48KfKyKuUgQPreDM

[fansince'76]

I don't want to derail this thread into a personal theology discussion, but I just wanted to make clear that by no accounts do I disregard the possibility of creation or "god". I've experienced enough unexplainable occurrences in my still short life that I definitely don't discount the possibility of a higher being. I'm just not there at the moment, maybe someday I will be. The possibilities of both divine and scientific explanations for things that are currently beyond our comprehension are fascinating and I don't have a closed mind to any of them. Just wanted to make that clear as I thought my comments above could be taken as representing an entirely atheological perspective which is not how I feel at all.

Same here. I'm agnostic, myself. I'm as annoyed by atheists who claim to "know" with 100% certainty that God doesn't exist and their usually overly smug assurance of it (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/) as I am by super-religious people who wear their religion on their sleeve and are constantly in your face with their beliefs. When it comes to the real "truth," none of us know jack shit.

[zulater]

Same here. I'm agnostic, myself. I'm as annoyed by atheists who claim to "know" with 100% certainty that God doesn't exist and their usually overly smug assurance of it (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/) as I am by super-religious people who wear their religion on their sleeve and are constantly in your face with their beliefs. When it comes to the real "truth," none of us know jack shit.

I used to refer to myself as an agnostic, but I don't think the label fits, as I believe in a Supreme being, a Divine entity of some sort that shaped the evolution of the Universe and ultimately man's place in it.

I just don't think any religion has even come close to defining "God's story, or plan, alllowing there is such a thing.

I do believe that certain people, such as Jesus and Budha were in some ways messenger's of God's, but I question their divinity. But at the same token I don't dismiss the possibility of it as outlandish fiction either.

I just don't know, and some answers I don't think are obtainable, even after you die.

As far as life after death is concerned, I'm more inclined to believe in reincarnation than Heaven.

[zulater]

http://www.newser.com/story/165458/saudis-sentence-mans-attacker-to-be-paralyzed.html

When he was 14, Ali al-Khawahir stabbed his best friend in the back, paralyzing him for life. Now, because of an eye-for-an-eye sentence, al-Khawahir is facing paralysis as well. The Saudi Arabia man can only avoid the sentence by raising more than $266,600, the amount his victim requested in order to forgive his attacker. He has been jailed for the 10 years since the attack, the Saudi Gazette reports, but GlobalPost says a court decision on the sentence was made yesterday. A campaign has been organized to help raise the money, since al-Khawahir's family is poor.

Imagine being the doctor ordered to paralyze a healthy 24 year old over an act committed 10 years prior?

[zulater]

LAHORE, PAKISTAN (BosNewsLife)-- Muslims in Pakistan's Punjab province have threatened to kill a young woman as well as her husband, child and in-laws because she abandoned Islam and converted to Christianity, BosNewsLife learned Monday, April 1.

Maria Manzoor, 26, and her 27-year-old husband Emmanuel Ghulam Masih said they are hiding with their "beautiful one-year-old daughter" Yarusha Emmanuel after receiving death threats.

"We have shifted from one place to another even in the last week," the couple explained in remarks obtained by BosNewsLife. "We have changed the location of residence, but now we are tired. We fear for our lives."

Friends and pastors have been reluctant to provide them a shelter, amid security concerns.

Maria Manzoor said the threats come from her Muslim relatives and Islamist extremists. And, "I am told that my family is making threats to my husband's father to bring me back and hand me over to my family", she added.

ACCEPTING CHRIST

The woman, who claims to have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior four years ago, said she is prepared to die for Him. "I have a strong faith in Jesus and have no fear of being killed for my faith. I would be proud to die for Him." However, "I am concerned about our little child," she added.

Additionally, Muslims have threatened to kill her husband and other relatives, confirmed their attorney Sardar Mushtaq Gill. "They have also threatened to kidnap her husband's sisters and kill the couple and other relatives," added Gill, director of the Pakistan-based advocacy group Legal Evangelical Association Development (LEAD).

The "hate campaign" emerged this year after Maria's Muslim family found out about her Christian conversion and that she visits a local church while being pregnant of a second child, said her father-in-law, Ghulam Masih.

The 58-year-old Masih told BosNewsLife in obtained remarks that he "received numerous threats of dire consequences" if he does not handover Maria to the Muslims.

Authorities in the city of Lahore, where the couple lived, haven't made live easier.

NATIONAL IDENTITY

Maria Manzoor said an official responsible for national identity cards and birth certificates recently "used many abusing words" when asked to change her religion from Muslim to Christian in documents.

"She said this would never happen and asked many questions about my Christian marriage certificate. The officer and her colleagues also threatened my husband of dire consequences because of our marriage and my conversion from Islam to Christianity," she recalled.

"My husband and me ran away from NADRA Registration Center [in Peco Road Township of Lahore] for the safety of our lives."

LEAD's Gill said his group now tries to provide accommodation for the couple and other relatives threatened by Islamists.

He said the incidents confirm a wider trend in Pakistan. "Muslim society condemns their marriage and conversion which is, according to [the strict interpretation] of Islam punishable by death," Gill noted.

PAKISTAN CONSTITUTION

"Though the Constitution Of Pakistan...allows to profess and to accept any religion or faith" [or inter-religious marriages] "Muslim society does not accept a Muslim girl who marries someone from another religion, including Christianity," he told BosNewsLife.

"There are many examples in which couples lost their lives because of this reason."

Maria Manzoor said she had asked Christians "to pray" for them and support them morally or financially. "We are starving and in hiding here and fear for our lives."

Pakistan's government has said it wants to tackle Islamic extremism in the country.

It has been reluctant however to tackle controversial blasphemy legislation under which minority Christians and others have been detained. (With reporting by BosNewsLife's Stefan J. Bos).


http://www.bosnewslife.com/27466-pakistan-muslims-to-kill-mother-relatives-over-christian-conversion

[zulater]

Islam is a hate crime.

[Seven]

Same here. I'm agnostic, myself. I'm as annoyed by atheists who claim to "know" with 100% certainty that God doesn't exist and their usually overly smug assurance of it (http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/) as I am by super-religious people who wear their religion on their sleeve and are constantly in your face with their beliefs. When it comes to the real "truth," none of us know jack shit.

Couldn't have said it better.

On the one hand I want to applaud when I hear someone label themselves as an atheist just for the fact that they haven't blindly followed what they were most likely taught, but on the other, saying you absolutely do not believe in creation is probably just as bad and maybe even moreso closed minded.

Absolute certainty is the tit from which fools drink.


I used to refer to myself as an agnostic, but I don't think the label fits, as I believe in a Supreme being, a Divine entity of some sort that shaped the evolution of the Universe and ultimately man's place in it.

I just don't think any religion has even come close to defining "God's story, or plan, alllowing there is such a thing.

I do believe that certain people, such as Jesus and Budha were in some ways messenger's of God's, but I question their divinity. But at the same token I don't dismiss the possibility of it as outlandish fiction either.

I just don't know, and some answers I don't think are obtainable, even after you die.

As far as life after death is concerned, I'm more inclined to believe in reincarnation than Heaven.

There are so many possibilities.

Our entire universe could simply be an atom that exists within a giant man who lives in a world infinitly larger than ours. I mean, why not?

People like to scoff at the programs like Ancient Aliens but I at least give it some thought. I mean who is to say we aren't a seed that was planted here by some mothership who left and planned to return someday to examine its experiment? This entire planet could be a zoo. And perhaps that ship, while intending to return, never did due to some war that wiped out its secrets/records? Or purhaps it just lost interest in us?

I, too, often lean more towards a divine being simply because where the hell did everything come from? Science can talk all day and all night about the big bang and whatnot but when I have someone trying to tell me that a scientific reaction occured from nothing? That's when I say no way. But then again, if there is a creator who made everything, where the hell did he come from? And that, then makes me want to believe in things such as Christian teachings.

It's really a massive triangle for me. I'll never be certain of one belief or another, and that'll suck - dying without ever knowing what the fuck my entire life was about. Are humans just an infection whose purpose is to destroy the planet similar to a virus attacking the immune system? Was all the Christ-lore really true? How the hell can space be finite but infinite at the same time?

I guess we'll probably never come close to knowing. But I bet the real answer is even more fucked up than any of us could ever imagine. It's either so simplistically stupid that we'd all lose any feeling of purpose... or so complex that we couldn't even comprehend and would drive ourselves crazy trying.

[zulater]

By the way to dawg and all the atheists who try to blame the world's trouble's on religion, the man who currently threatens to throw Asia into a full out nuclear conflict is an atheist. http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5015204178166435&pid=15.1

[steeldawg]

By the way to dawg and all the atheists who try to blame the world's trouble's on religion, the man who currently threatens to throw Asia into a full out nuclear conflict is an atheist. http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5015204178166435&pid=15.1

Hes not crazy because hes an atheist, hes crazy because hes crazy. Atheism means nothing more than you dont believe in god, outside of that atheists share nothing else. Religions have been the root of alot of violence since the beginning of time.

[zulater]

Hes not crazy because hes an atheist, hes crazy because hes crazy. Atheism means nothing more than you dont believe in god, outside of that atheists share nothing else. Religions have been the root of alot of violence since the beginning of time.

In my opinion religion is used by meglomanic's and tyrant's as a tool for controlling people in order to obtain (or retain power) and wealth. You look to fault the religion where generally speaking it's being subverted and twisted for personal gain by a select few. Usually those that use religion as a tool to control people of faith have no genuine faith themselves.

So in essense ( real) religion while flawed isn't the issue. And removing it wouldn't do anything towards making the world a less violent place. People are corrupt by nature, and those that seek and gain power and influence will always find a way to control people of few possessions and little learning.

In fact I think the argument can safely be made that religion has done more to advance humans and mankind than to hurt it by feeding, clothing, and educating the poor etc...

Your dislike and mistrust of religion as a whole is misguided in my opinion.

[steeldawg]

In my opinion religion is used by meglomanic's as a tool for controlling people in order to obtain (or retain power) and wealth. You look to fault the religion where generally speaking it's being subverted and twisted for personal gain by a select few. Usually those that use religion as a tool to control people of faith have no genuine faith themselves.

So in essense ( real) religion while flawed isn't the issue. And removing it wouldn't do anything towards making the world a less violent place. People are corrupt by nature, and those that seek power and influence will always find a way to control people of few possessions and little learning.

In fact I think the argument can safely be made that religion has done more to advance humans and mankind than to hurt it by feeding, clothing, and educating the poor etc....

Yes people are corrupt and controlling by nature which is why religion which is created by people is corrupt and controlling. If religion was something that exsisted without people and people were corrupting it i could see your point, but its a lie created by people to control people. The very purpose of religion was control, in earlier times we didnt have the resources we do today and rulers needed ways to control the masses, so they did in the form of gods with the threat of eternal damnation. I think religion had its place in time, but as time goes on religion will fade.

[zulater]

Yes people are corrupt and controlling by nature which is why religion which is created by people is corrupt and controlling. If religion was something that exsisted without people and people were corrupting it i could see your point, but its a lie created by people to control people. The very purpose of religion was control, in earlier times we didnt have the resources we do today and rulers needed ways to control the masses, so they did in the form of gods with the threat of eternal damnation. I think religion had its place in time, but as time goes on religion will fade.



Seriously you just trashed everyone of faith in a single paragraph! :lol:

It's all a lie and all who believe are easily duped morons is pretty much your summary of the history of religion as I read it?!

[zulater]

Here's my opinion on religion. People seek answers to questions that have no easy answers. The conclusions they come to on this journey for answers often manifest themselves in the way of religion.

I can't say who's right or wrong?

Maybe in some cases you can. And obviously there's a trail of contradictory evidence no matter what your science or religion. But in the end it's a matter of what the seeker sees and what he interpets. Many interpretations can derive from the same body of evidence, thus you have a multitude of beliefs.

[steeldawg]

Seriously you just trashed everyone of faith in a single paragraph! :lol:

It's all a lie and all who believe are easily duped morons is pretty much your summary of the history of religion as I read it?!

I believe it is a lie with the motive being control. If you subscribe to a religion you basically take the same stance, because essentially what your saying is this religion is right, which would mean everyone else has it wrong.

[zulater]

I believe it is a lie with the motive being control. If you subscribe to a religion you basically take the same stance, because essentially what your saying is this religion is right, which would mean everyone else has it wrong.

Maybe my religion doesn't preach that everyone who disgrees with it is unquestionably wrong.

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Dawg I'm not religious. But I can tell you this, what you don't know of religion and it's adherents could fill volumes. :lol:

[steeldawg]

Here's my opinion on religion. People seek answers to questions that have no easy answers. The conclusions they come to on this journey for answers often manifest themselves in the way of religion.

I can't say who's right or wrong?

Maybe in some cases you can. And obviously there's a trail of contradictory evidence no matter what your science or religion. But in the end it's a matter of what the seeker sees and what he interpets. Many interpretations can derive from the same body of evidence, thus you have a multitude of beliefs.

Thats fine but the danger with religion is it pretends to give you the answers to all questions and it lays out guidelines in which is the "right way to live your life" which creates a sense of distain for anyone who lives outside that. Atheism is just not believing in dieties once you get past that you can live your life within the law however you see fit, and ur feeling towards others is the same as long as its legal i dont care what you do. gay people are a perfect example of how a persons rights could be trampled because of a religious outlook.

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Maybe my religion doesn't preach that everyone who disgrees with it is unquestionably wrong.

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Dawg I'm not religious. But I can tell you this, what you don't know of religion and it's adherents could fill volumes. :lol:

Actually the major religions thats exactly what they preach, I dont know of any part of christianity that tells you its not the word of god and the absolute truth. What religion says believe whatever you want? They are telling you what an infinite all knowing all powerful god wants you to do.

[zulater]

I'll see if Preacher or someone else of faith jumps in.

I just think it's hilarious that dawg is such a hypocrite and can't see it.

[steeldawg]

I'll see if Preacher or someone else of faith jumps in.

I just think it's hilarious that dawg is such a hypocrite and can't see it.

hypocrite how?

[Count Steeler]

Yes people are corrupt and controlling by nature which is why religion which is created by people is corrupt and controlling. If religion was something that exsisted without people and people were corrupting it i could see your point, but its a lie created by people to control people. The very purpose of religion was control, in earlier times we didnt have the resources we do today and rulers needed ways to control the masses, so they did in the form of gods with the threat of eternal damnation. I think religion had its place in time, but as time goes on religion will fade.

Time will tell.

[zulater]

hypocrite how?

Has any one every disproven there's a God?

By your posts one would think so. Hence you're claiming you have answers that you don't possess. Thus you're a hypocrite.

[steeldawg]

Has any one every disproven there's a God?

By your posts one would think so. Hence you're claiming you have answers that you don't possess. Thus you're a hypocrite.

I didnt claim anything i simply do not believe in one. We are not necessarily discussing the exsistence of god, we are discussing religion and its purpose and influence.

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Has any one every disproven there's a God?

By your posts one would think so. Hence you're claiming you have answers that you don't possess. Thus you're a hypocrite.

There are many things in the various religions that have been proven false and if things in the the religious doctrine are false its not a stretch that the god of that religion is also false.

[zulater]

but its a lie created by people to control people.

You assume more than you know Dawg.

[steeldawg]

You assume more than you know Dawg.

Thats what i believe, if you can show me its not a lie I will gladly leave the forum. If my point of view is based on assumption, what is your point of view based on? If there both based on assumption than i can just take everything you say to me, flip it around and point it right back at you.

[zulater]

Thats what i believe, if you can show me its not a lie I will gladly leave the forum. If my point of view is based on assumption, what is your point of view based on? If there both based on assumption than i can just take everything you say to me, flip it around and point it right back at you.

Difference being I can express my POV without telling people that if they don't believe as I do they're more or less idiots.

Difference also being I don't think my views stand above all others.

[steeldawg]

Difference being I can express my POV without telling people that if they don't believe as I do they're more or less idiots.

Difference also being I don't think my views stand above all others.

I never said either of those 2 things.

[zulater]

I never said either of those 2 things.

You do constantly! :lol: You just don't see it.

[steeldawg]

You do constantly! :lol: You just don't see it.

How, what did i say that would say your an idiot if you dont believe like me or my beleifs are superior? I simply told you that i believe religions are lies invented as a form of control.

[zulater]

How, what did i say that would say your an idiot if you dont believe like me or my beleifs are superior? I simply told you that i believe religions are lies invented as a form of control.

You're very dismissive of any views contrary to your own.

Must be an "atheist thing".

[steeldawg]

You're very dismissive of any views contrary to your own.

dismissive how, i never said you or anyone else shouldnt believe what they believe, I myself just do not believe in that. If me not believing in what you believe is being dismissive i dont know what to tell you.

[zulater]

dismissive how, i never said you or anyone else shouldnt believe what they believe, I myself just do not believe in that. If me not believing in what you believe is being dismissive i dont know what to tell you.

If it was within your power would you do away with religion in all it's forms?

[steeldawg]

If it was within your power would you do away with religion in all it's forms?

Ok i guess we are getting hypothetical, No i wouldnt people can believe whatever they want as far as im concerned, just as long as they leave me out of it. You know you say your accepting of others point of views but your calling out me as an atheist in a thread you created about how bad islam is, lol.

[zulater]

Yet another Islamic cleric recently made it permissible for the Islamic fighters waging a jihad in Syria—politely known as “the opposition”—to rape the nation’s women.


‘Ajlawni: Justifying rape in Islam’s name
Salafi Sheikh Yasir al-‘Ajlawni, a Jordanian of origin who earlier lived in Damascus, Syria for 17 years, posted a YouTube video last week where he said he was preparing to issue a “legitimate fatwa” making it legal (in the eyes of Islam) for those Muslims fighting to topple secular president Bashar Assad and install Sharia law to “capture and have sex with” all non-Sunni women, specifically naming Assad’s own sect, the Alawites, as well as the Druze and several others, in short, all non-Sunnis and non-Muslims.

The sheikh used Islam’s legitimate Arabic term for these hapless, non-Muslim women, melk al-yamin, a phrase that appears in Islam’s sacred book, the Koran, and which is simply a reference to non-Muslim sex-slaves. For example, Koran 4:3 commands Muslim men to “Marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four… or what your right hands possess.” Islam’s ulema, or “scholars,” are unanimously agreed that “what your right hands possess” is, according to Islamic law, simply a sex-slave. Linguistic evidence further suggests that she is seen more as an animal or a possession than a human—hence this inhuman fatwa.

Jordanian Sheih Yasir al-‘Ajlawni is certainly not the first cleric to legitimize the rape of infidel women in recent times. Calls to capture and rape non-Muslim women are appearing with increasing frequency from all corners of the Islamic world.

A few months earlier, Saudi preacher Muhammad al-Arifi also issued a fatwa allowing jihadi fighters to engage in “intercourse marriage” with captive Syrian women that lasts for a few hours “in order to give each fighter a turn”—also known as gang-rape.

Then there is Egyptian Sheikh Ishaq Huwaini, who once lectured on how infidel captives, or to use another term from the Koran, ghanima, the “spoils of war,” are to be distributed among the jihadis and taken to “the slave market, where slave-girls and concubines are sold.” He, too, referred to such women as “what your right hands possess,” saying: “You go to the market and buy her, and she becomes like your legal mate—though without a contract, a guardian, or any of that stuff—and this is agreed upon by the ulema…. In other words, when I want a sex-slave, I go to the market and pick whichever female I desire and buy her.”

Indeed, even some Muslim women advocate the enslavement and rape of fellow (non-Muslim) women. Kuwaiti political activist, Salwa al-Mutairi, for instance, is working to see the institution of sex-slavery return. In a video she posted online, she explained how she once asked Islam’s greatest authorities living in the city of Mecca, the city of Islam, about the legality of sex-slavery and how they all confirmed it to be perfectly legitimate. According to Mutairi:

A Muslim state must [first] attack a Christian state—sorry, I mean any non-Muslim state—and they [the women, the future sex-slaves] must be captives of the raid. Is this forbidden? Not at all; according to Islam, sex slaves are not at all forbidden. Quite the contrary, the rules regulating sex-slaves differ from those for free women [i.e., Muslim women]: the latter’s body must be covered entirely, except for her face and hands, whereas the sex-slave is kept naked from the bellybutton on up—she is different from the free woman; the free woman has to be married properly to her husband, but the sex-slave—he just buys her and that’s that.

The Kuwaiti activist went on to offer concrete suggestions: “For example, in the Chechnya war, surely there are female Russian captives. So go and buy those and sell them here in Kuwait; better that than have our men engage in forbidden sexual relations. I don’t see any problem in this, no problem at all.”

One can go on and on with more examples. The point is that last week’s fatwa permitting the jihadi-led “opposition” to target and rape non-Sunni Syrian women is in good company, and certainly not an aberration.

The only aberration seems to be the United States’ wholesale support for self-professed rapists and terrorists—quite laughably, in the name of “democracy.”
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/new-fatwa-permits-rape-of-non-sunni-women-in-syria/

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Ok i guess we are getting hypothetical, No i wouldnt people can believe whatever they want as far as im concerned, just as long as they leave me out of it. You know you say your accepting of others point of views but your calling out me as an atheist in a thread you created about how bad islam is, lol.

You're no different than anyone of faith, as that you see only that that you want to see.

[steeldawg]

Yet another Islamic cleric recently made it permissible for the Islamic fighters waging a jihad in Syria—politely known as “the opposition”—to rape the nation’s women.


‘Ajlawni: Justifying rape in Islam’s name
Salafi Sheikh Yasir al-‘Ajlawni, a Jordanian of origin who earlier lived in Damascus, Syria for 17 years, posted a YouTube video last week where he said he was preparing to issue a “legitimate fatwa” making it legal (in the eyes of Islam) for those Muslims fighting to topple secular president Bashar Assad and install Sharia law to “capture and have sex with” all non-Sunni women, specifically naming Assad’s own sect, the Alawites, as well as the Druze and several others, in short, all non-Sunnis and non-Muslims.

The sheikh used Islam’s legitimate Arabic term for these hapless, non-Muslim women, melk al-yamin, a phrase that appears in Islam’s sacred book, the Koran, and which is simply a reference to non-Muslim sex-slaves. For example, Koran 4:3 commands Muslim men to “Marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four… or what your right hands possess.” Islam’s ulema, or “scholars,” are unanimously agreed that “what your right hands possess” is, according to Islamic law, simply a sex-slave. Linguistic evidence further suggests that she is seen more as an animal or a possession than a human—hence this inhuman fatwa.

Jordanian Sheih Yasir al-‘Ajlawni is certainly not the first cleric to legitimize the rape of infidel women in recent times. Calls to capture and rape non-Muslim women are appearing with increasing frequency from all corners of the Islamic world.

A few months earlier, Saudi preacher Muhammad al-Arifi also issued a fatwa allowing jihadi fighters to engage in “intercourse marriage” with captive Syrian women that lasts for a few hours “in order to give each fighter a turn”—also known as gang-rape.

Then there is Egyptian Sheikh Ishaq Huwaini, who once lectured on how infidel captives, or to use another term from the Koran, ghanima, the “spoils of war,” are to be distributed among the jihadis and taken to “the slave market, where slave-girls and concubines are sold.” He, too, referred to such women as “what your right hands possess,” saying: “You go to the market and buy her, and she becomes like your legal mate—though without a contract, a guardian, or any of that stuff—and this is agreed upon by the ulema…. In other words, when I want a sex-slave, I go to the market and pick whichever female I desire and buy her.”

Indeed, even some Muslim women advocate the enslavement and rape of fellow (non-Muslim) women. Kuwaiti political activist, Salwa al-Mutairi, for instance, is working to see the institution of sex-slavery return. In a video she posted online, she explained how she once asked Islam’s greatest authorities living in the city of Mecca, the city of Islam, about the legality of sex-slavery and how they all confirmed it to be perfectly legitimate. According to Mutairi:

A Muslim state must [first] attack a Christian state—sorry, I mean any non-Muslim state—and they [the women, the future sex-slaves] must be captives of the raid. Is this forbidden? Not at all; according to Islam, sex slaves are not at all forbidden. Quite the contrary, the rules regulating sex-slaves differ from those for free women [i.e., Muslim women]: the latter’s body must be covered entirely, except for her face and hands, whereas the sex-slave is kept naked from the bellybutton on up—she is different from the free woman; the free woman has to be married properly to her husband, but the sex-slave—he just buys her and that’s that.

The Kuwaiti activist went on to offer concrete suggestions: “For example, in the Chechnya war, surely there are female Russian captives. So go and buy those and sell them here in Kuwait; better that than have our men engage in forbidden sexual relations. I don’t see any problem in this, no problem at all.”

One can go on and on with more examples. The point is that last week’s fatwa permitting the jihadi-led “opposition” to target and rape non-Sunni Syrian women is in good company, and certainly not an aberration.

The only aberration seems to be the United States’ wholesale support for self-professed rapists and terrorists—quite laughably, in the name of “democracy.”
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/new-fatwa-permits-rape-of-non-sunni-women-in-syria/

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You're no different than anyone of faith, as that you see only that that you want to see.

No what i believe in which is nature, science , things that are proven are what i see they do not require faith. People of faith believe in things that are unseen unknown and unproven which is why it requiers faith.

[zulater]

No what i believe in which is nature, science , things that are proven are what i see they do not require faith. People of faith believe in things that are unseen unknown and unproven which is why it requiers faith.

So people of faith don't believe in nature and science? Didn't know that. :coffee:

[steeldawg]

So people of faith don't believe in nature and science? Didn't know that. :coffee:

they do, but they are people of faith, so they believe in a world beyond that, i do not. Thats why they are called people of faith, faith by definition is a belief that is not based on proof, and the biblical definition of faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

[zulater]

Yes people are corrupt and controlling by nature which is why religion which is created by people is corrupt and controlling. If religion was something that exsisted without people and people were corrupting it i could see your point, but its a lie created by people to control people. The very purpose of religion was control, in earlier times we didnt have the resources we do today and rulers needed ways to control the masses, so they did in the form of gods with the threat of eternal damnation. I think religion had its place in time, but as time goes on religion will fade.

You see this is where you come off as a bigot.

Ever think maybe religion "was created" to give people a sense of security? A belief that death has a greater meaning than fade to black?

Look at the definition of religion.


re·li·gion [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Reads a little different than your interpretation no?

[Seven]

I'll see if Preacher or someone else of faith jumps in.

I was hoping for this, too.

[43Hitman]

I was hoping for this, too.

Honestly I doubt he wastes his time with this. He's not going to convince steeldawg no matter what and we already believe in some sort of higher being.

[steeldawg]

You see this is where you come off as a bigot.

Ever think maybe religion "was created" to give people a sense of security? A belief that death has a greater meaning than fade to black?

Look at the definition of religion.


re·li·gion [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Reads a little different than your interpretation no?

I wasnt giving you a definition of religion, i was telling you what i believe it was used for and their is plenty of history to support that, even in your definition of religion it says a moral code governing human affairs basically it tells you how you should live your life that is control. Telling people you have to like certain things, you have to dislike certain things, dress a certain way , give a portion of your money, socialize with certain types of people, only marry evenly yolked partners, and on and on and on......And excuse me whos the bigot here you start a thread bashing islam and now your trying to call out atheists and im the bigot.

[zulater]

I wasnt giving you a definition of religion, i was telling you what i believe it was used for and their is plenty of history to support that, even in your definition of religion it says a moral code governing human affairs basically it tells you how you should live your life that is control. Telling people you have to like certain things, you have to dislike certain things, dress a certain way , give a portion of your money, socialize with certain types of people, only marry evenly yolked partners, and on and on and on......And excuse me whos the bigot here you start a thread bashing islam and now your trying to call out atheists and im the bigot.

Being prejudiced against a hate group isn't bigotry. Islam advocates slavery, rape, coporol punishment to gays, to adults who consentually fornicate outside of marriage, represses the rights of non Muslims. So no I'm not a bigot. I just call it like it is. Islam is a hate cult.

It amazes me that Germany can outlaw Scientology, yet allows Islam inside it's borders. Tell me how many people throughout the world suffer at the hands of Scientoligists?

I'll go this far. People who are subjugated to Coporol punishment at the hands of all non Muslim religions combined don't amount to 1-20th the amount of people that suffer at the cruel hands of sharia law.

So fuck it, if that makes me a bigot, I'm a bigot and proud.

[steeldawg]

Being prejudiced against a hate group isn't bigotry. Islam advocates slavery, rape, coporol punishment to gays, to adults who consentually fornicate outside of marriage, represses the rights of non Muslims. So no I'm not a bigot. I just call it like it is. Islam is a hate cult.

It amazes me that Germany can outlaw Scientology, yet allows Islam inside it's borders. Tell me how many people throughout the world suffer at the hands of Scientoligists?

I'll go this far. People who are subjugated to Coporol punishment at the hands of all non Muslim religions combined don't amount to 1-20th the amount of people that suffer at the cruel hands of sharia law.

So fuck it, if that makes me a bigot, I'm a bigot and proud.

And im a bigot how?

[zulater]

And im a bigot how?

You're prejudiced against pretty much all religions, me, just one.

[zulater]

Sharia in action in Kuwait: Parliament approves death penalty for insulting Allah

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/04/sharia-in-action-in-kuwait-parliament-approves-death-penalty-for-insulting-allah.html

"Islam is a religion of tolerance, peace and acceptance, but that doesn’t mean it should be stepped on." This is the kind of law that the foes of the freedom of speech, of which there are many, are trying to bring to the West.

"Kuwait Parliament Approves Death Penalty for Insulting God," by Fiona MacDonald and Dahlia Kholaif for Bloomberg, April 3 (thanks to Paul):

Kuwait’s parliament approved a law imposing the death penalty on any Muslim who insults God, his prophets, messengers, Prophet Mohammad’s wives or the Koran, in any form of expression, if they don’t repent.
The bill, which adds articles to Kuwait’s penal code, was passed today by 40 lawmakers, including all Cabinet ministers present, and rejected by five Shiite Muslims as well as one liberal lawmaker.

“Islam is a religion of tolerance, peace and acceptance, but that doesn’t mean it should be stepped on,” lawmaker Ali al-Deqbasi told the house before the vote. AbdulHamid Dashti, who voted against the bill, said the law “should be broadened to criminalize those who insult all beliefs and faiths.”

According to the law, judges must give defendants the option of repenting, which, if taken, reduces the sentence to at least five years in prison and a fine of 10,000 dinars ($36,000). Non-Muslims will be sentenced to 10 years in prison if convicted of violating the law, which will take effect after signed by the emir and then published in the Official Gazette within a month of parliamentary approval.

[zulater]

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/black-slavery-and-islamic-racism/


When Tuaregs and Islamists swarmed in to seize Northern Mali, one of the old grievances animating their campaign was slavery. The Tuaregs were not former slaves, they were, and in some cases still are, slaveholders.

The French invasion of Northern Mali, liberating towns and villages under Islamist rule, was a historical echo of the original French emancipation of Tuareg slaves back in the colonial period. Despite French efforts, the Tuareg did their best to hang on to their slaves and Muslim Tuareg still continue to hold thousands of slaves in Northern Mali.

Mali is not unique. The Sudanese genocide was given theological and political force by the attitude that Arabs and Muslims had the natural right to a superior position over African Animists and Christians. And today Omar Hassan al-Bashir, the Butcher of Sudan, continues to enjoy the support of the Muslim world despite being indicted for genocide by the International Criminal Court.

The supporters of the Muslim world’s campaign to displace the indigenous Jewish population of Israel in favor of the Arab colonists and settlers casually accuse Israel of apartheid. Every year Israeli Apartheid Week is held on college campuses in an attempt to compare Israel’s refusal to allow Hamas terrorists access to its territory with racial discrimination.

But racial Apartheid is very much a reality in the Muslim world. The same Muslim students who show up to denounce Israel as an apartheid state often come from countries where there is true apartheid when it comes to black skin.

In North Africa, the Haratin, a Berber word meaning dark skin, are the remnants of the indigenous African population. Many are still enslaved. Others live apart from mainstream society, forced into degrading or difficult occupations.

Mauritania is the country with the world’s largest proportion of slaves. There hundreds of thousands of Haratin serve the Bidhan, the so-called “White Moors”. The Bidhan pass on the Haratin as property from generation to generation. And even those who are not legally property face a grim life.

In the 80s, Mauritania ethnically cleansed tens of thousands of Africans from its territory. Even Human Rights Watch stated, “It is fair to say that the Mauritanian government practices undeclared apartheid and severely discriminates on the basis of race.”

The best kept secrets of the Muslim world include large populations of former African slaves in places like Pakistan, Iraq and Turkey. While Africans in Israel are not descended from slaves, Afro-Arabs, Afro-Turks and African-Pakistanis are living reminders of a Muslim slave trade that sometimes still lingers on.

The site of the world’s greatest slave rebellion was in Basra, Iraq, where half-a-million African slaves rose against the might of the Arab Abbasid Empire.

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The Zanj rebellion was brutally suppressed, but its legacy lives on in the modern day city of Basra where hundreds of thousands of Afro-Iraqis live as a despised minority taunted with the slur “Abd” or Slave. That same Arabic word is often widely applied to black people in the Middle East.

While Muslim propagandists have exploited the legacy of slavery in the United States to win black converts, slavery in the Muslim world began long before the United States and ended a century later.

President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1862. By contrast, Saudi Arabia only abolished slavery in 1962. That same year Yemen abolished slavery and the United Arab Emirates abolished slavery a year later.

Saudi Arabia’s ruling family did not embark on this course out of the goodness of their hearts, but under pressure from President Kennedy, at a time when the House of Saud did not yet have the United States economy and its foreign policy in a headlock. The abolition of slavery was a compromise. Kennedy had wanted representative government and civil rights. He had to settle for a belated emancipation.

Slavery has been officially abolished; unofficially it lingers on. There is still a silent unofficial slave trade that is carried on and leading Saudi clerics have insisted that slavery is a part of Islam. Saudis living abroad are often discovered to have domestic workers who live like slaves leading to criminal cases.

The situation is worst in North Africa where Arab colonization largely displaced and suppressed the indigenous peoples, like the Nubians in Egypt. Ethnically cleansed to make way for the Lake Nasser project, Egyptian Nubians have, like so many other North African indigenous peoples, been reduced to a persecuted minority within their own land.

Some may argue that Islamic slavery, like Islamic terrorism, has nothing to do with Islam, and yet the rationale for racial slavery can be found in the Koran and the Hadiths which discuss Mohammed’s trade in black slaves.

Al-Tabari wrote that, “Noah prayed that the hair of Ham’s descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem’s, the latter would enslave them.” This theological justification provided a religious manifest destiny for the Arab conquests and acts of ethnic cleansing in Africa.

The great Muslim historian Ibn Khaldun justified slavery by relegating black people to the rank of animals, writing, “The only people who accept slavery are the Negroes, owing to their low degree of humanity and proximity to the animal stage.”

The legacy of Islam makes the permanent abolition of slavery and racism impossible. Egypt and its Mamaluk slave empire fell in the 19th century and British attempts to abolish slavery appeared to have done the job, but the new Muslim Brotherhood constitution dropped the old ban on slavery. Mauritania officially outlawed slavery numerous times, but it still widely persists. Saudi Arabia abolished slavery, but its elite families, of whom the Hadiths say, Allah chose the Arabs above all others and chose the Quraysh above the Arabs, still fall back into their old habits even in the West.

The oil-rich tyrannies at the heart of the Islamic Gulf are maintained by armies of slave laborers with few rights. The skyscrapers of Dubai and Doha are built with the blood of thousands of foreign workers who are paid a pittance and are only allowed to leave with the approval of their masters.

Ali al-Ahmed, a leading Saudi scholar and the director of the Institute for Gulf Affairs, put it bluntly in Foreign Policy magazine. “Blacks, who make up around 10 percent of the population, are banned from judgeships — as are women and Muslims who observe a different version of the faith — because the monarchy’s religious tradition still views blacks as slaves, other Muslims as heretics, and women as half human. There is only one word to describe such a system: Apartheid.”

While Saudi money goes to sponsor propaganda that accuses Israel of Apartheid for fighting Saudi-backed terrorist groups, the brutal kingdom continues an ancient policy of slavery and repression.

And in North Africa, African migrants look to the West to escape racism in lands colonized by Islam. “Arabs hate black people. And that is not from today, it is in their blood,” a young African man named Aboubakr says. “Blacks have no rights here.”

[steeldawg]

You're prejudiced against pretty much all religions, me, just one.

how am i prejudice against religions. Prejudice would imply that i make a judgement about the religion before knowing the facts about it. Its actually the contrary i base my opinions about a religion based on its doctrines. Just because i do not believe what a religion believes does not make me prejudice.

[zulater]

how am i prejudice against religions. Prejudice would imply that i make a judgement about the religion before knowing the facts about it. Its actually the contrary i base my opinions about a religion based on its doctrines. Just because i do not believe what a religion believes does not make me prejudice.

Dawg going back to the beggining of this thread, when I cited attrocity after attrocity commited in the name of "Allah". when I pointed out how rather than arguing about gays right to get married Sharia law condemns them to death, you lump all religions into the same "nutpile", marking an equivillance that to me doesn't come close to existing.

So to me your lumping all religions into one crazy little nutpile, so to speak, makes you a bigot against people of faith.

I'm against hating fanaticism that cloaks itself in the name God. But people have the right to their views, even hatefull views, so that I can tolerate. I'm talking Westboro Baptist church type idiots.



But when that fanaticism and hate manifest's itself in the form of murder, rape, enslavement, the denial of others right to exist or exist freely without persecution and pain. When a supposed religion imposes a death penalty on those that choose freely to leave their so called faith, then this is a different category and the other religions of this world don't deserved to be lumped in to the same category. Which you have repeatedly tried to do, as is the liberal mantra.

Which is why we'll always be in danger from radical Islam. Because until you address the beast for what it is, rather than excusing it for what it isn't ( religion) it will continue to hide behind the same cloak that governs reasonable religious redress and tear apart the very fabric of humanity.

Those that deny what Islam is, what danger it brings to the world and try to equivilate it to normal religions are as dangerous as the fantics that kill, rape, and maim in the name of Allah themselves.

[steeldawg]

Dawg going back to the beggining of this thread, when I cited attrocity after attrocity commited in the name of "Allah". when I pointed out how rather than arguing about gays right to get married Sharia law condemns them to death, you lump all religions into the same "nutpile", marking an equivillance that to me doesn't come close to existing.

So to me your lumping all religions into one crazy little nutpile, so to speak, makes you a bigot against people of faith.

I'm against hating fanaticism that cloaks itself in the name God. But people have the right to their views, even hatefull views, so that I can tolerate. I'm talking Westboro Baptist church type idiots.



But when that fanaticism and hate manifest's itself in the form of murder, rape, enslavement, the denial of others right to exist or exist freely without persecution and pain. When a supposed religion imposes a death penalty on those that choose freely to leave their so called faith, then this is a different category and the other religions of this world don't deserved to be lumped in to the same category. Which you have repeatedly tried to do, as is the liberal mantra.

Which is why we'll always be in danger from radical Islam. Because until you address the beast for what it is, rather than excusing it for what it isn't ( religion) it will continue to hide behind the same cloak that governs reasonable religious redress and tear apart the very fabric of humanity.

Those that deny what Islam is, what danger it brings to the world and try to equivilate it to normal religions are as dangerous as the fantics that kill, rape, and maim in the name of Allah themselves.

thats not bigotry, i think all religions are nuts based on the fact that they believe in a spiritual world. If i was a bigot that would mean i would treat all people of religion with contempt based on prejudice, which i dont. I simply look at religious doctrine and regard the certainty they feed to about things they couldnt possibly know anything about as falsehoods and lies. Just because i think what you believe is not true doesnt mean im a bigot. And all those things you list, maybe you should take a look at the history of christinaity also because it covers all of those. Also i didnt lump all religions in as the same as islam, I said i think they are all nuts. I certainly dont think the buddhist religion is a violent but there alot of things its speaks of that i dont agree with or could possibly know, such as karma, rebirth, gods, hells, hungry ghost, animals share space with humans but are another life, theses are the parallels between the religions that unite them as nuts in my book, the knowledge of things unknown.

[zulater]

Australia: Muslim rapist wins right to appeal over cultural differences

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/sex-attacker-wins-right-to-appeal-over-cultural-differences/story-fnat7jnn-1226610493724



AN AFGHAN refugee who argued cultural differences led him to rape a drunken girl has won a bid to appeal against a 14-year jail term.
Esmatullah Sharifi, 31, was given a total 11-year non-parole term for two rapes committed within days of each other in December 2008.


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/04/australia-muslim-rapist-wins-right-to-appeal-over-cultural-differences.html

Here's an article explaining why it's legal under Islamic law to own sex slaves and commit rape. This isn't about 100 years ago, it's valid today.

Islam isn't a religion, it's a disease.

[GoSlash27]

theses are the parallels between the religions that unite them as nuts in my book, the knowledge of things unknown.
But all the clergy from all religions agree that there is a God. Isn't it foolish to ignore the people who's whole lives are dedicated to understanding this? :huh:

[zulater]

http://nation.foxnews.com/religion/2013/04/05/us-army-labeled-evangelicals-catholics-examples-religious-extremism

A U.S. Army training instructor listed Evangelical Christianity and Catholicism as examples of religious extremism along with Al Qaeda and Hamas during a briefing with an Army Reserve unit based in Pennsylvania, Fox News has learned.

“We find this offensive to have Evangelical Christians and the Catholic Church to be listed among known terrorist groups,” said Ron Crews, executive director of the Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty. “It is dishonorable for any U.S. military entity to allow this type of wrongheaded characterization.”

Material presented to soldiers at training session.
The incident occurred during an Army Reserve Equal Opportunity training brief on extremism. Topping the list is Evangelical Christianity. Other organizations listed included Catholicism, Al Qaeda, Hamas, the Ku Klux Klan, Sunni Muslims, and Nation of Islam.
The military also listed “Islamophobia” as a form of religious extremism.

[43Hitman]

But all the clergy from all religions agree that there is a God. Isn't it foolish to ignore the people who's whole lives are dedicated to understanding this? :huh:
well played sir, well played indeed. :lol:

[steeldawg]

But all the clergy from all religions agree that there is a God. Isn't it foolish to ignore the people who's whole lives are dedicated to understanding this? :huh: but its not based on any evidence its all based on faith and they dont agree on a specific god they believe in different gods. I think you know thats not a legimate comparison.

[The WH]

Someone explain to me the difference between a "cult" and a "religion". A "cult" to me is nothing more than a Kickstarter for a "religion"

[steeldawg]

Someone explain to me the difference between a "cult" and a "religion". A "cult" to me is nothing more than a Kickstarter for a "religion"

There is no difference to me they both really have the same traits.

[zulater]

There is no difference to me they both really have the same traits.

A rabid pit bull and the taco bell chihuahua share many of the same traits as well. Guess you probably couldn't figure out the difference there either.

[GoSlash27]

but its not based on any evidence its all based on faith and they dont agree on a specific god they believe in different gods. I think you know thats not a legimate comparison.

Do I? :scratchchin:

Your only possible response is "yeah, but that's different". But I don't agree. Objectively speaking, there's no difference at all.

[zulater]

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/04/world/asia/afghanistan-honor-killing-survivor/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- It's cold and raining in Kabul and the pothole-filled dirt roads have turned into a sea of mud. We drive up to the gateway of a high-walled compound. A soldier brandishing an AK-47 stands guard outside the building. We've come to a women's shelter to meet Gul Meena -- a 17-year-old girl from Pakistan who shouldn't be alive.
My crew and I are ushered into a room and sitting on a wooden chair slouched over is small, fragile Gul Meena. Her sullen eyes turn from the raindrops streaming down the window outside and towards us as we enter the room.
Gul's bright coloured headscarf is embroidered with blue, red and green flowers and covers most of her face. She nervously plays with it and gives us a glimpse of a frightened smile from underneath the fabric. Her guardian Anisa, from the shelter run by Women for Afghan Women, touches her head and gently moves the headscarf back. That's when we see the scars etched deeply into her face.
This Pakistani girl's life of misery and suffering began at the tender age of 12, when instead of going to school she was married to a man old enough to be her grandfather. She says: "My family married me off when I was 12 years old. My husband was 60. Every day he would beat me. I would cry and beg him stop. But he just kept on beating me."
When Gul told her family what was happening, they responded in a way that shocked her. "My family would hit me when I complained. They told me you belong in your husband's house -- that is your life."
After five years of abuse, Gul Meena met a young Afghan man and finally gathered the courage to leave her husband in Pakistan. In November 2012 she packed up some belongings and they made their way across the border into Afghanistan to the city of Jalalabad.

Gul knew she was committing the ultimate crime according to strict Islamic customs -- running away from her husband with another man -- but she also knew she didn't want to continue living the life she had since her marriage.
"I'd tried to kill myself with poison several times but it didn't work. I hated my life and I had to escape. When I ran away I knew it would be dangerous. I knew my husband and family would be looking for me but I never thought this would happen. I thought my future would be bright," she says.
Days later her older brother tracked them down. Armed with an ax, he hacked to death Gul Meena's friend, and then struck his own sister 15 times -- cutting open her face, head and parts of her body.
Gul Meena shows me these scars -- taking off her headscarf, her finger gently running up and down the raised, freshly healed skin. She touches her head where the blade hit her and then shows me the deep cuts that were made to the back of her neck and her arms. It's clear to me she desperately tried to fight off her brother before she passed out.

[zulater]

How Can Any Rational, Normal Person Believe in Islam?
Thursday, 04 April 2013 02:47 Jake Neuman
On March 30th 2013, the New York Times ran an article asking the question: How can reflective and honest intellectuals actually believe this stuff, referring to the Catholic Church?

The piece instigated no riots by Catholics. No cars were fire bombed, and no fatwa was issued by Bishops calling for the destruction of the New York Times offices or for murdering their employees.

That’s their right to free speech, but the more pressing question that must be asked are as follows:

1) How any reflective, honest intellectuals or anyone can believe in Islam?

The sacred Muslim holy book, the Quran, Muslims believe, is the divine, timeless word of God written by God Himself. But the Quran is filled with thousands of instructions and teachings calling for violence, extermination, war, murder, mass murder, killing, death and destruction, terror, rape, unlimited sex with sex slaves, violent jihad, terrorism, torture, brutality, savagery, maiming, beheading, wife beating, inferiority of women, honor killings, stoning, cutting off limbs, child sex, women as instruments of sexual pleasure in paradise, cruel Sharia law, bigotry, hate, intolerance, extortion, slavery, mutilations, looting, pillaging, sexual depravity, child molestation, oppression and subordination of women, inequality of Muslim women to Muslim men, inequality of kafirs to Muslims, inequality of any human being, that kafirs can be murdered and their property stolen as a holy duty, that Muslims who renounce Islam can be killed, that Muslims (or anyone) who challenge the teachings of Islam can be murdered, that believers who slay and are slain in the service of God will ascend to a sexual Paradise full of lustrous-eyed, voluptuous-breasted virgins who they can sexually molest for all eternity. Holy or not, the Quran is book of epitome of evil.

2) How can any normal, rational person believe that Islam is a religion?

Religion is a belief system designed to connect man with his Lord spiritually and morally. Being a believer in God or any religion does make you superior to another human, does not give you the right to proclaim that all other religions must submit to your religion or its values, or that society must adopt your belief system.

But Islam’s ultimate goal is to conquer the whole world for its God - Allah, by destroy all other religions and murder all non-Muslims who refuse to convert to Islam.

To Muslims, freedom of religion means practicing Islam only. This means, Muslims are obligated by the Quran (2:193, 8:39 etc.) to destroy all other religions – Christianity, Judaism, Mormonism, Hinduism and others – by whatever means necessary for establishing Islam as the only religion in the whole world.

Freedom of religion in the Western democratic world is aimed at protecting the rights and dignity of different religious communities, so that they can practice their respective religious rites and rituals without fear and interference. However, religious freedom to Muslims – that is, allowing them to practice what they are obligated to by the Quran – means allowing them the right to establishment Islam as the state religion, murdering or subjugating infidels (9:5, 9:29), murdering apostates, via dhimmitude for Christians and Jews, enslaving and raping the kafir women and children, subjugation and repression of Muslim women, killing the critics/blasphemers of Islam, and most of all, destroying the manmade constitutions of democratic nations with its imbedded freedom and democracy, and replacing it with Sharia Law. These are all demanded of Muslims by their sacred religious texts, namely the Quran and Ahadith (Sunnah).

A religion worth believing in by normal, rational people?

3) How can any normal, rational person believe that Muhammad was a prophet of God?

In Muhammad, we have a criminal who created a God, named Allah, of his own liking so as to sanction his criminality that includes murder, torture, rape, terrorism, child molesting, wife abusing – just a small sample of it. If God chose such an evil person to represent him to mankind and gave divine sanction and support/encouragement to his criminal acts, then God would no longer be a symbol of justice and fair-play, but an accomplice to the criminality of His evil prophet.

Muhammad not only ordered mass murder, torture, and raping of sex-slaves, but also personally beheaded his enemies, raped their women, plundered their property, and sold the captive women whom he and his Jihadi followers did not want as sex-slaves, and also their children, into slavery to raise funds to finance his jihad operations. The prophet owned 40 slaves. For a list of Muhammad’s crimes against humanity.

4) How can any normal, rational person believe that God transmitted evil Quranic verse like 9.111?

Verse 9.111 reads:

“Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain"

Its meaning is crystal clear. It is suicidal Jihad. Those Muslims, who dies while trying to murder kafirs in Islam’s cause, are guaranteed martyrdom and accession to a sexually depraved paradise, filled with eternal virgins of exquisite beauty for the sexual enjoyment of these Jihadi killers and murderers with unceasing copulation for all eternity. Allah has taken away from Muslims all rights and ownership of their life. Muslims will exclusively engage in Allah's stratagems of wars with no questions asked, and kill and get killed to book a place in that paradise. Allah is a peerless master of incitement of violence and bloodbath.

Verse 9:111 is the teaching that has been used by Muhammad and his lieutenants to mobilize the suicide bombers, beheaders, warrior jihadis to kill and slaughter millions. Estimated 270,000,000 infidels were killed in Jihad over the past 1,400 years in the fulfilment of the teaching of Quran 9:111 for gaining access to Islam’s sexual paradise. Here is what the Islamic Paradise looks like:

"As for the righteous (Muslims)... We (Allah) shall wed them to beautiful virgins with lustrous eyes" [Quran 44:51-54]
“The righteous (Muslims) they shall triumph... Theirs shall be voluptuous women." [Quran 78:31-33].
Other verses in the Quran—such as 37:40-48, 44:51-55, 52:17-20, 55:56-58, 70-77, 56:7-40, 78:31 (also see http://www.islamreform.net/new-page-192.htm) describe the Paradise to be an alluring whorehouse. Any sane, rational person can believe in such teaching and crave for such depraved sexual paradise is unbelievable.

5) How can any rational, normal person believe in islam that calls for jihad - holy war against kafirs?

The idea of Jihad has been discussed above. It is the central Islamic doctrine of holy war against non-Muslims, intended for converting them all to Islam or enslaved, or annihilated. Quranic texts, exhorting to Jihad, occupies 9% of all verses, while 24% of those revealed in Medina. Jihad-related content takes up 21% of the Bukhari material and the Sira devotes 67% of its text to jihad (see more).

Exhorting Islamic holy war or Jihad for forced conversion, enslavement or annihilation of people, just because they follow religions other than Islam, is the worst kind of incitement of hatred and violence. The teachings of Jihad make God an accomplice to war, mass-murder and destruction.

6) How can any rational, normal person believe in Islam that sanctifies rape, beating and subjugation of women?

Women bear us all to this world. Therefore, they deserve no less than equal respect and right than men in society. Reducing women to a vile, psychologically impaired and inferior being to men is a criminal injustice against women's natural place in society. Muhammad, a sex-crazed, brutal criminal engendered 1,400 years of repression and degradation of billions of Muslim mothers and sisters, which is to continue forever, since Quranic teachings are eternal.

Islam is a horribly anti-women creed that preaches that women are inferior to men with lower intelligence and inheritance rights, compared to dogs and donkeys, to be subjugated to polygamy with no right to divorce their husbands, could be unconditionally beaten by husbands (4:34), and are compared to fields to be ploughed by men any time and any way they want (2:22). There are some 151 verses in the Quran dealing with women and 102 or 67% of those are demeaning to them. While in the Hadiths, 93% of the texts dealing with women are demeaning of them.

The Islamic God’s hatred of women, both Muslim and non-Muslim, is second only to His hatred of non-Muslim men. Women compose a half of humanity and the hatred, repression, subjugation and sub-humanness anti -women teachings of Islam justifying their enslavement, beating, torture and murder is horrible in the least. (for a sampling of anti-woman hatred in Islam, see link 1, link 2, link 3)...

[steeldawg]

Do I? :scratchchin:

Your only possible response is "yeah, but that's different". But I don't agree. Objectively speaking, there's no difference at all.

Really there is no difference between scientist who study actual data vs. clergy who dont study the exsistence of god but rather just believe there is one. Wow that is not my only possible response but its the only one i need. When scientific agencies come to a consensus on something after years of study and data its much different than a guy standing there in a robe telling you all about creation life and the afterlife based on faith.

[GoSlash27]

Really there is no difference between scientist who study actual data vs. clergy who dont study the exsistence of god but rather just believe there is one. Wow that is not my only possible response but its the only one i need. When scientific agencies come to a consensus on something after years of study and data its much different than a guy standing there in a robe telling you all about creation life and the afterlife based on faith.

The reason it's the same thing isn't because of their behavior, it's because of *yours*. You have constructed circular arguments in both cases based on an appeal to authority fallacy. You accept as fact what you've been handed by the climate experts and anyone who doesn't do the same is crazy. At the same time, you reject as fact what you've been handed by the theologians and anyone who doesn't do the same is crazy.
In *neither* case do you have any objective information on which to base your own conclusions, let alone to evaluate anyone's sanity.

A little intellectual consistency, maybe?

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Geez... why don't they teach critical thinking anymore... :(

[steeldawg]

The reason it's the same thing isn't because of their behavior, it's because of *yours*. You have constructed circular arguments in both cases based on an appeal to authority fallacy. You accept as fact what you've been handed by the climate experts and anyone who doesn't do the same is crazy. At the same time, you reject as fact what you've been handed by the theologians and anyone who doesn't do the same is crazy.
In *neither* case do you have any objective information on which to base your own conclusions, let alone to evaluate anyone's sanity.

A little intellectual consistency, maybe?

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Geez... why don't they teach critical thinking anymore... :(

Its not an appeal to authority fallacy nor is the arguement circular. There is an enormous difference between clergy telling me there is a god and scientists telling me the data shows global warming. My conclusions are based on people who have collected tangible data tested data reviewed data, have conducted experiments for decades and have formed educated conclusions. Theologians are studying the exsistence of god? really with what tools, what experiments? They cant study the exsistence of god because there is no evidence of one, thats the reason religion requires faith.

[zulater]

And all those things you list, maybe you should take a look at the history of christinaity also because it covers all of those.

While it's true that a lot of attrocities have been commited in the name of Christ, mostly in the distant past, name me one attrocity Jesus himself commited? You see that's why it was inevitable that mainstream Christianity would evolve past Medieval ways. Because Jesus himself was nonviolent. Think of Jesus the human being and you think, turn the other cheek, let he without sin throw the first stone, forgive them father for they know not what they do. You think of a man who ministered to the downtrodden, the sick and the poor.

Now take Muhamad the human being. He murdered with his own hand. Many times over. He ordered genocide and rape. He robbed pillaged and plundered. He practiced polygamy, and consumated a "marriage" with his 9 year old "bride". He was racist against blacks. He was anti semitic. His words are words of violence, his actions were similiar in nature.

therefore those that truly follow him will be violent, uncompromising, sexist, anti semitic, as long as Islam exists.

[zulater]

First, on Muslims - I love you in spite of your beliefs and deeds. I would like nothing more than to free you from Islam. I agree with Renan, the famed scholar, who, after dedicating himself to understanding Islamic scripture, wrote: "Muslims were the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain others in the practice of this religion by terror. To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him."

[zulater]

Lastly, Islam has no alibi, no reason to cry, "Unfair." The Qur'an condemns all non-Muslims - Christians and Jews as well as those who worship many gods and no gods. It is an equal opportunity hater. Its attitude toward unbelieving infidels is overwhelmingly hostile. A cursory reading of the first ten surahs is sufficient to prove that the relatively few nice verses were contradicted and replaced, "abrogated" in Muslim parlance, by a staggering number of nasty ones. In fact, the Qur'an was written to justify some of the most ungodly behavior the world has ever known.
The simple truth is: good Muslims are bad people. Islam makes them that way. While there are plenty of "bad" Muslims who are good people, they are as impotent as bad Nazis in the Third Reich or bad Communists during Stalin's era. The Qur'an defines good and bad Muslims for us. It says a good Muslim is a Jihadist, a man who leaves his home, sacrificing his wealth and life, fighting in Allah’s Cause. Allah says they will be rewarded with stolen booty if they survive or with a heavenly bordello if they die. Bad Muslims, on the other hand, are peaceful. Allah calls them "hypocrites" because they are unwilling to fight. He even says that peaceful Muslims are "the most vile of creatures" and that hell's hottest fires await them. If you are a peace-loving Muslim, your god hates you.

[X-Terminator]

Links for your last 2 posts, please.

[zulater]

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_Appendix_Islams_Dark_Past.Islam

[zulater]

http://tundratabloids.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/father-not-allw2ed-to-watch-daughter-swim.png

CANADA: FATHER NOT ALLOWED TO WATCH DAUGHTER IN SWIMMING CLASS DUE TO ISLAMIC GENDER APARTHEID POLICIES…….

[zulater]

Strange Brew: Islam and Black Pride

Islam's Legacy of Racism and Slavery

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Articles/BlackandProud.htm

One of the most bizarre manifestations of African-American pride is the contemporary identification with Islam. Like Kwanzaa, however, Islam has a far shorter and less memorable history in Black America than most realize.

The story goes that in 1930 Allah appeared to the people of Detroit in the form of a mysterious man named “Fard.” Allah’s human form seemed to be of African and Arab descent and claimed to have been born in Mecca, a descendent of the prophet Muhammad. He preached a message of racial identity and claimed that Islam was the true religion of the black people of America before they were robbed of it by the White Man. (Ironically, the prophet Muhammad was described as a "white man" by those who knew him).

In fact, Fard was really just a small-time con-man named Wallace Dodd Ford, who had served three years in San Quentin for drug-dealing. He drifted into Detroit at a time when many African-Americans were beginning to form racial identity groups around charismatic personalities such as Marcus Garvey. Of course, racial consciousness was hardly just “a black thing” at the time, as the 1920’s were also when Ku Klux Klan influence peaked in America.

Interestingly, Ford was neither of African or Arab descent, as he claimed. He was a mix of European and Polynesian. But he did recognize an opportunity when he saw one, and the street preacher soon built up quite a following among those who could appreciate an overtly racist theology that persists to this day in spite of its zaniness.

According to Ford, and his Nation of Islam, Africans were the original and only people of the world (divine and uncorrupted) before whites were invented by an evil scientist named Yakub in a malicious experiment with tragic consequences. Islam is the true religion, and, at some point, a spaceship will be sent by Allah to eliminate the white people from the earth. (The Quran actually says that black people became that way because they lived closer to the rising place of the sun - which wouldn't be possible unless the earth were flat).

Although it may be difficult to imagine such a crackpot being given the time of day in this progressive age, in fact much more than that is awarded to Louis Farrakhan every time he plans one of his narcissistic “Million Man” marches. Prominent political figures such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton never fail to line up behind the leader of an organization that openly espouses a message of racial superiority. In 2005, even Bill Clinton lent his endorsement to the event – of course, he’s supposed to be our first Black President (at least for the black people who managed to survive his unwillingness to stop genocide in Liberia, Sierra Leone, the Sudan, Zaire, Burundi and Rwanda – as Clinton’s eight years in office saw more Africans lose their lives in wars than were ever brought to America in chains).



Slavery.

The awful truth is that Arabs ravaged Africa for almost a thousand years before Europeans ever began to export black slaves. In fact, it was the foundation of slave procurement and trading established by the Muslims (usually through Jihad) that enabled the European practice.

Far more Africans were swallowed up in the fourteen hundred years of Islamic slave trading than in the three centuries of European practice. An estimated 17 to 20 million Africans were exported from their native land to the Muslim world, but this isn't the whole story. With a transport survival rate of less than 1 in 3, Dr. John Alembellah Azumah estimates that perhaps 50 to 80 million more died in route.

Here is a quote from an observer in Zanzibar that sheds light on the harsh conditions of Islamic slavery:

"As they filed past, we noticed many chained together by the neck... The women, who were as numerous as the men, carried babies on their backs in addition to a tusk of ivory or other burden on their heads... It is difficult to adequately describe the filthy state of their bodies; in many instances not only scarred by [the whip], but feet and shoulders were a mass of open sores... half-starved ill-treated creatures who, weary and friendless must have longed for death."

The text (quoted from Dr. Azumah's The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa) goes on to describe the fate of those who became too ill or too weak to continue the journey - as related by a Muslim "herdsman":

"Spear them at once! For, if we did not, others would pretend they are ill in order to avoid carrying their loads. No! We never leave them alive on the road; they all know this custom."

When asked who carries the ivory when a mother gets too tired to carry both her baby and the ivory, the herdsman replied, "She does! We cannot leave valuable ivory on the road. We spear the child and make her burden lighter."

After Muhammad's companions overthrew the Christians in Egypt shortly after his death, they began demanding slaves from the Nubians to the south. For over 600 years, the black African kingdom was forced to send a tribute of slaves to Cairo on a regular basis.

Although the Qur'an does not distinguish between races, there is a strong legacy of racism against people of African descent in early Islam.

According to the Quran itself, blackness is a product of being too close to where the sun sets and rises (Muhammad thought that the earth flat and the Africans lived along the edge). Islamic scholar Ibn Qutaybah described black people as "ugly and misshapen because they live in a hot country where the heat overcooks them in the womb and curls their hair."

Again quoting from The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa, Dr. Azumah provides several examples of Islam's early attitude toward blackness:

The hadith in which an Ethiopian woman laments her racial inferiority to Muhammad, who consoles her by saying, "In Paradise, the whiteness of the Ethiopian will be seen over the stretch of a thousand years."


The Muslim Arab and Persian literature which depicts blacks as "stupid, untruthful, vicious, sexually unbridled, ugly and distorted, excessively merry and easily affected by music and drink."


Nasir al-Din Tusi, the famous Muslim scholar said of blacks: "The ape is more capable of being trained than the Negro."


Ibn Khaldun, an early Muslim thinker, writes that blacks are "only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings." He also insisted that this quality is what makes them "submissive to slavery." (In truth, over 500,000 Africans in Basra overthrew their Arab-Islamic masters in the largest slave uprising in history in what is known as the Zanj Rebellion).


Classical Islamic law allows a light-skinned Muslim man to marry a black woman, but a black Muslim man is restricted from marrying a light-skinned woman. As the literature of the time put it, "only a whore prefers blacks; the good woman will welcome death rather than being touched by a black man."


Another hadith quotes Muhammad: "Do not bring black into your pedigree."

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Muhammad owned and sold black slaves. In fact, the pulpit of his mosque, from which he preached Islam, was built by slave labor on his order.

Even Christianity’s harshest critics could hardly picture Jesus as a slave trader. Whereas the New Testament merely acknowledges slavery, the teachings of Islam offer explicit guidance in the details of the practice, thus endowing it with divine sanction.

The Qur'an encourages sex with slaves in several places, which explains the 2-1 ratio of female to male slaves taken from Africa by Muhammad's descendants. The Muslims were more interested in the sexual servitude of black women than the Europeans, who exported Africans for labor.

As one might have guessed, the life of slaves in Muslim countries was quick and painful. There is a reason why one doesn't find too many native blacks in Saudi Arabia or Iraq today. Enslaved men could not bear children because they were often castrated, and the unfortunate Africans as a group did not ultimately survive the brutal treatment.

Here's a description of what Turkish Muslims did to their male "Negro" children in the relatively civilized late-1800's:

Castrators of Negroes buy them and then sell them, after having mutilated them, on the Turkish market, that is if the victim does not succumb to the operation or to its consequences [90% do not survive the castration]. As to the methods used, they have remained as primitive as in the past. The child is spread out on the floor or a table, the sexual parts are tied at their base by a rope, and on these parts they operate with one vigorous movement of a razor, the wound is then dressed with some small shot [i.e., lead rifle shot?], with some astringent substances, boiling oil, or some warm honey. Once the bleeding stops, they fix a kind of lead nail two inches long, slightly curved and with a thickened end, in the urethra, until it is completely healed... Castrators sometimes use an even more barbaric method. Immediately after the removal of organs, they introduce into the urethra rather than a nail, a piece of reed protruding two inches, so that urinary functions are performed without interruption. Then a plaster is applied on the wound, and the patient is buried up to his neck in the warm and dry sand, while the assistants trample the ground around him. This maneuver reduces the mobility of the wounded one completely... after a week he is unearthed. (As quoted from Andrew Bostom)

By contrast, the 400,000 slaves brought to America over the course of 200 years managed to leave the most prosperous group of African people on the planet. You can tell a lot about a people’s quality of life by the things they choose to complain about. While the life expectancy in some African countries is less than 19, what with disease, abject poverty, starvation and kleptocratic dictators, African-Americans are actually demanding financial compensation (reparations) for not having to live in those conditions.

So ingrained is slavery in Islam that the religion's holiest city, Mecca (site of the Haj pilgrimage), was a slave trading capital. Up until the 20th century, Mecca served as the gateway to the Muslim world for slaves brought out of Africa. Azumah notes:

"It became a custom for pilgrims to take slaves for sale in Mecca or buy one or two slaves while on Haj as souvenirs to be kept, sold or given as gifts."

The last slaves were openly traded in Islam's holiest city in 1960!

Arab enslavement of black Africans continues to this day in the Muslim world, particularly in the Sudan, Niger, and Mauritania.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Articles/BlackandProud.htm

[zulater]

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Punjab,-convert-to-Islam-or-die:-The-20-year-long-nightmare-of-a-Christian-family-27597.html

Pakistani family ordered to "convert or else", local authorities do nothing.

I could link 30 similiar stories a week, easily. This is what goes on around Africa, this is why Lebanon went from a Christain majority as recently as 30 years ago to a scant minority today. This is why a multi cultural city like Bethleham of 40 years ago has became an Islamic cesspool today.

Comparing any mainstream religion of the world to Islam is a bad joke, and totally innacurate.

Until the world wakes up and gets the collective courage to recognize Islam for what it is the bloodshed will go unabated.

[zulater]

http://newsbytesnow.com/2013/04/19/flash-bauchi-sharia-court-okays-amputation-of-mans-arm-over-n13000-theft/

An Upper Shari’a Area Court inBauchi has confirmed the judgement of a lower court that ordered the amputation of the arm of Abdullahi Sale, a resident of Kogi village in Bauchi Local Government Area, for theft.
A lower Shari’a Court in the area had earlier convicted Abdullahi Sale on the charges levelled against him.
According to the Police Prosecutor Corporal Idris Malum, the convict broke into the shops of one DanladiYa’u of ZungurKogi and Yusuf Babba of Bula-Lusa and carted away properties worth about N13, 000.
The offence, according to the prosecution, contravenes section 151 of Shari’a Penal Code.
Meanwhile the convict had pleaded guilty, but sought for leniency from the court.
However, the Police Prosecutor asked the court not to grant the prayers in order to serve as deterrent to others.
In the meantime the convict has 30 days to file an appeal against the judgement.

By the way that converts to 80 U.S. dollars.

[zulater]

A survey of 3500 Turkish men conducted by the University of Kirikkale and the organisation "Happy Children" prove what is anyway a truism in Turkey: of course most Turkish men consider violence against women to be completely normal, sensible and practical.

28 per cent of those polled thought violence against spouses to be indispensable: it was needed to discipline them. 34 per cent were more moderate and thought violence against spouses was only "necessary" "occasionally".

Altogether that is 62 per cent, almost two-thirds of the men questioned.


http://islamversuseurope.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/62-of-turks-support-violence-against.html

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Police: Muslim Women Arrested for Anti-Jewish Provocation

Several of the Muslim women who repeatedly attempted to physically block Jews from visiting the Temple Mount were arrested, police have said.

Police commander Avi Biton reported the arrests in a letter to Michael Puah, who had sent a letter of complaint over the women’s provocative actions.

The women’s actions were caught on film over the Passover holiday. The women moved to sit in front of a passageway in order to prevent Jewish visitors from accessing the area, but eventually moved after police officers spoke to them.

Jewish visitors reported that the women yelled insults at them as they walked by.

In his letter to Biton, Puah noted that the women’s actions were not a one-time protest, but rather, part of an ongoing effort by female Muslim worshipers to interfere with Jewish access to the holy site.

Biton said that several of the women had been arrested, and some would face criminal charges. Some were temporarily barred from visiting the Temple Mount, he said.

Puah noted that the provocations caused concern not only due to the issue of Jewish access to the holy site, but also due to the recent discovery of a Muslim terrorist cell that was active on the Temple Mount. “There is real fear that from this group of women who do whatever they please will come a female terrorist, or even a male terrorist hidden by those baggy clothes, who will complete the work of the terror cell that was caught,” he wrote.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/167317#.UXQ6L7UU-f8

If the Palestinians ever gain full control no non Muslim will ever be allowed to worship there again.

[zulater]

There are many, if not most, Muslims who simply want to live out their lives as best as possible without blowing other people apart. But, having said this, if just ten percent of the world's 1.5 billion Muslims believe what their own scriptures--especially the important later surahs of the Qur'an--teach them, the carnage should not come as a surprise.

You may find what iscontained in this source unsettling--but prove it wrong if you take issue.

Whether one group of Muslims is targeting another--as in Syria, Iraq, Darfur, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and so forth--or whether Muslims are targeting non-Muslims in their still continuing confrontation of the age-old wars of the Dar ul-Islam vs. the Dar al-Harb, the evidence is overwhelming.

While you can point to others who also engage in such acts of barbarism (and the killing fields of such places as Cambodia and the atrocities in sub-Saharan Africa are not to be ignored), there is no doubt that, especially in this modern era, too many of such acts indeed involve Islam's followers. Furthermore, pick your world-wide conflict today. Guess who is most likely doing the fighting? But don't dare suggest an Arab and/or Islamic connection--unless you want to be branded a bigot.

Israel's alleged peace partners, Mahmoud Abbas and his latter-day Arafatians, for example, habitually name schools, stadiums, and so forth after "shahids" or living murderers who disembowel, behead, or otherwise murder Jewish children and other innocents .

The "moderate" Jordanians--whom Israel saved more than once--just proclaimed the cold-blooded butcher of seven young Israeli girls who were on a school trip a hero and are agitating to have him freed from prison. He has just said that he would do it again.

And there's more. Much more.

What other religion/way of life continuously motivates people to blow up innocents randomly at will--women shopping at vegetable stands in Iraq, children in schools or ice cream parlors, people at prayer or riding buses, folks at work, sleeping in their beds, driving cars, running races, or whatever?

Yes, there have been other acts of terrorism--including those (very rarely) committed by Jews as well…and Irish, Kurds, and others too. But how have the vast majority of the terrorists' own peoples handled these incidents?

Baruch Goldberg, for example, who gunned down Arabs in Hebron, was not made into a national icon. And he reached the breaking point only after Jews at prayer at the Cave of the Patriarchs were repeatedly threatened with slaughter by Arabs in Hebron and a young man, Aaron Gross, was stabbed in Hevron and then stabbed to death in the Arab hospital.to which he was abducted.

The Israeli government immediately condemned the massacre and arrested followers of Rabbi Meir Kahane. It also forbade certain settlers from entering Arab towns and demanded that they turn in their army-issued rifles. Goldstein was denounced by mainstream Orthodox Judaism and described as insane by most Israelis. Contrast this to what Arabs typically do with such people.


Besides the latest horrendous tragedy and human cost exacted from America by followers of "the religion of peace" at the Boston Marathon, what does this say about a religion and culture that takes pride in raising children to see as their ultimate goal in life to bring horror to others? The two Chechan brothers have too many counterparts in Islam. Arafat used to claim that the Arab mother was his best weapon.

Yes, there is injustice in this world, and Muslims have sometimes been on the receiving end. More often, they have been dishing it out.

But there are better ways to achieve justice than what far too many followers of Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam, accept as the only solution. And in the realm of imperfect man, justice must be pursued in its relative--not absolute--form.

To receive justice, one must also be willing to allow others their own fair share. This is a lesson too many Muslims--especially Arabs and other Arabized Jihadis, such as the Chechan Jihadis who were followers of the Arabs' al-Qaida and other Islamist organizations--have still not learned

Had imperfect Arabs been willing to grant, for example, imperfect Jews in one tiny, resurrected state what they demand for themselves in almost two dozen of their own (carved out of mostly other, non-Arab peoples' lands) on about seven million square miles of territory, the Arab-Israeli conflict would have been resolved decades ago.

Ditto for the war and subjugating attitudes of Muslim Arabs and Turks towards fellow Muslim Kurds, black Africans, and Imazighen/"Berbers"--so the problem even goes beyond the realm of religion and becomes a racist one as well, committed by the very Arabs complaining about "racist Zionists."


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/13176#.UXQ7lbUU-f8

[zulater]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RtgbvotqVFE#at=24

In case you need to see just how peaceful and respectful Muslims are of others, take a look at this video. It was taken by a Muslim who was part of a mob that vandalized and desecrated a cemetery that contained the remains of British and Italian soldiers killed during World War 2. The cemetery just happens to be located in Benghazi, where the same peaceful Muslims attacked the US Embassy last year.

These Muslims show no respect for the fallen men who died in war. If anyone did that to a Muslim cemetery, the entire Muslim world community would be up in arms demanding the death of those involved. Islam is the most intolerant religion in the world and they continually prove that by their actions.
Muslims expect us to welcome them with open arms and believe that nothing will change after they move into the neighborhood. But look at places like Dearborn, Michigan which has the largest enclave of Muslims in the US. They are taking over the city government, the schools and even public events like fairs. Muslim judges have already issued rulings based upon sharia law which went against American law.
Islam is not a religion of peace and they don’t want just to move in and be part of our neighborhoods. They have an agenda to convert America into the United States of Allah and I guarantee that we Christians will be more persecuted than ever before.


Read more: http://godfatherpolitics.com/10474/peaceful-muslims-destroy-dozens-of-ww2-headstones/#ixzz2R9ODKoa1

[SteelerEmpire]

You will never settle these matters of religion in a debate. I always say let the God (of whatever religion you, or non religion, you profess) come down and convince the world that their as great as they and their followers say they are. If their a God, they should be able to do that right ? After all, what is it that a "true GOD" can't do ? But until they do, it's just a lot of back and forth.

[zulater]

http://www.persecution.org/2012/01/25/isamists-arrest-a-muslim-father-after-his-sons-convert-to-christianity/

A father in Somolia was arrested because his sons, who have moved to America, have converted to Christainity thus the father is indicted for failing to raise his sons as good Muslims.

Apparently this is a standard tactic to arrest the parents if the children convert and leave the country, as most children don't wish to subject their parents to that fate. Of course the caveat is the father will be released if and when his children return to accept their punishment, which of course will be death.

Nice religion there. Just the same as Chritianity, yep that's right. Just the same. :doh:

[zulater]

As many as 74 schoolgirls in Afghanistan’s far north fell sick after smelling gas and were being examined for possible poisoning, local officials said on Sunday.

While instances of poisoning are sometimes later found to be false alarms, there have been numerous substantiated cases of mass poisonings of schoolgirls by elements of Afghanistan’s ultra-conservative society that are opposed to female education.

Local officials said the girls became ill after smelling gas at their school, Bibi Maryam, in Takhar province’s capital, Taluqan. The city is about 250 kilometers north of the country’s capital, Kabul.

The Takhar governor’s spokesman, Sulaiman Moradi, blamed” enemies of the government and the country” for the mass illness and said the aim was to stop girls from going to school.

The girls were taken to the provincial hospital and most were released after being treated, though several remained in a critical condition on Sunday evening, the head of the hospital, Dr. Jamil Frotan, said.

“We have already sent samples of their blood to the Ministry of Public Health and it will soon become clear what the reason for their illness was,” Frotan said.

The apparent poisoning came three days after more than a dozen students fell ill in another girls’ high school in Taluqan. No-one has claimed responsibility for either incident.

Between May and June last year there were four poisoning attacks on a girls’ school in Takhar, prompting local officials to order principals to stay in school until late and staff to search the grounds for suspicious objects and to test the water for contaminants.

Takhar has been a hotbed of militancy and criminal activity since 2009, with groups such as the Taliban and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan active.

Since the 2001 ousting of the Taliban, which banned education for women and girls, females have returned to schools, especially in Kabul.

But periodic attacks against female students, their teachers and their school buildings, continue.

Afghan women have won back basic rights in education, voting and employment since 2001, but fears are growing that such gains could be traded away as Western forces prepare to leave and the Afghan government seeks peace talks with the Taliban.
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/asia/2013/04/22/Afghan-girls-school-feared-hit-by-poison-gas.html

[zulater]

“Allah Made Me Do It”

Writing in Islamist Watch for April 17, 2013, David Rusin draws our attention to a recent case in an Australian court which would beggar belief if we had not grown inured to such outrages through repetition and cultural submission. As Rusin writes, “Esmatullah Sharifi, an Afghan refugee who came to Australia in 2001 and launched a career as a sexual predator, has been granted leave to appeal his sentence for raping an intoxicated young woman in 2008. Robert Redlich, an appellate judge, explained that the sentencing judge had focused primarily on ‘the protection of the community’ and improperly ‘rejected any suggestion [Sharifi] didn’t have a clear concept of consent in sexual relations’ due to cultural differences.” Rusin suggests that a double standard is in effect, “whereby a Muslim upbringing can excuse horrible behavior that would never be tolerated from non-Muslims.”

There have been a growing number of cases throughout the West, in which Muslim felons, charged with various crimes that would normally entail vigorous sentencing, have seen their cases dismissed or subject to appeal on the grounds of differing cultural norms, customs and assumptions. While convictions can sometimes be made to stick, even then the authorities are prone to react with reluctance and only after charges cannot be reasonably deferred. As Soeren Kern reports at The Gatestone Institute, in a case involving a gang of Muslim “groomers” in Manchester, the Crown Prosecution Service was provided with DNA evidence of rape but “twice decided not to prosecute” while government lawyers also refused to proceed.



Even a brief internet search will yield innumerable such episodes. The distinction seems to apply only to Islamic offenders; immigrants from non-Islamic countries can generally expect the full weight of the law to be levied against them. But Muslim cases are far more often regarded as special cases and Muslim perps granted unique prerogatives in the eyes of the law.

Thus a Muslim who attacks an American citizen for insulting the Prophet has the assault case thrown out of court by a sympathetic judge. The judge, Mark Martin, claimed that the accused, a certain Talaag Elbayoni, was justified and even obligated by his religion to respond to perceived provocation with violence. Apparently, in the opinion of this Pennsylvania judge, Sharia law trumps the First Amendment. Similarly, a Muslim who rapes a 13-year-old girl receives a suspended sentence because, in the words of the presiding judge, “it is quite clear from the reports that you are very naive and immature when it comes to sexual matters.” Indeed, Muslim rape of young girls has become a veritable epidemic in Scandinavia, the U.K. and elsewhere, and Muslim assaults of one sort or another—workplace harassment, physical beatings, intimidation, unpatriotic and even treasonable acts and utterances—are legion. Yet in far too many of these instances our judicial system may be plausibly described as double-jointed, two-tiered, and appallingly lenient—in a word, Islamophiliac.

Such conduct on the part of our judiciary leads to an inevitable question and a logical conundrum, namely, where does it end? If rape, physical assault, and other crimes are dismissed as instances of different cultural values that need to be acknowledged and that generate privileges and exemptions pertaining to no other group or cohort, why stop there? Islam requires its adherents to behave in certain specific ways, the Koran and the ancillary literature prescribe right and permissible forms of conduct and proscribe others, the religion excuses and vindicates particular acts that many of us find intolerable and reprehensible. Nevertheless, the paradigms and ideals inherent in the faith are considered by an increasing number of judges and lawmakers to be sacrosanct.


http://frontpagemag.com/2013/david-solway/allah-made-me-do-it/

[zulater]

Imran Firasat Acquitted of Hate Crimes – A Landmark Victory for Freedom of Expression

http://www.islam-watch.org/authors/151-firasat/1304-imran-firasat-acquitted-of-hate-crimes--a-landmark-victory-for-freedom-of-expression.html
Hello friends! You may be aware that the Spanish government had revoked my refugee status a few months ago for producing a movie on Prophet Muhammad’s life.

To continue my persecution, Muslims in Spain launched criminal law suits against me accusing me of hate crime for hurting their religious sentiments. And the court readily initiated my prosecution. There was a huge pressure on me to leave Spain or to be prepared for deportation or detention. But I decided to stay here and fight for my right to freedom of expression through legal means.

As concerns the government’s decision to revoke my refugee status, I have lodged an appeal against it, and the process is ongoing in the Spanish high court.

But concerning the prosecution of me for hate crime case, today I have good news for those, who care for the right to freedom of expression. The news is: The public prosecutor and the acting judge have acquitted me of any hate crime, citing that there are no indications of having committed any crime by me. Having examined my declaration and submitted documents, the court found that I always duly informed the government about my activities concerning Islam and that I never had any ill intention to hurt anybody’s feelings or threaten the national security of Spain.

This is a landmark victory for the freedom of expression in Spain and in Europe.

Friends, do you know what does this mean? This means that politicians in Western countries many be intimidated by Muslims to taking actions certain individual or group violating human rights, just for appeasing Muslims, but the justice system will more often than not will render proper justice and stand on the side of the wrongly persecuted. And I am happy and thankful that the Spanish judicial system has stood on the side of due justice and upheld my right to freedom of expression. I am also thankful to the Spanish court for making a statement for Muslims and radical Islamic organizations to take note that they may be able to intimidate politicians into taking illegitimate actions against certain individual or groups for political expediency, but the justice system would stand on the side of oppressed and persecuted.

Given the court has declared that I have committed no hate crime via my activities concerning Islam and that I have no ill intention of threatening Spain national security, I also hope that I will be to recover my refugee status—simply because, there is no more legal ground for revoking my refugee status anymore.

[zulater]

List of Islamic terrorist attacks Jan 1- Apr 19 this year. (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2013.htm)

Only several hundred incidents so far this year. Why would anyone think Islam is a violent cult? :sarcasm:

[Mach1]

This Wednesday at 8pm ET, TheBlaze will debut a new episode of For The Record, the investigative news show that aims to tell the stories the mainstream media has ignored. This week, For The Record exposes what life is like as a Christian in Egypt. The show takes an exclusive look inside Egypt and exposes the truth about the Muslim Brotherhood’s terrifying campaign to persecute and destroy an entire faith.

“The first half of the show deals with a story the mainstream media has largely ignored. In fact, I don’t even think I could say largely ignored. Has ignored, and that is the genocide of Christians by the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. That is happening,” Glenn said.

“You know, if you follow the scriptures at all on Biblical times, you know about the persecution of Christians. Those same things are happening again in ways that you cannot even imagine. Children are being kidnapped from their Christian parents, the children are being raped and then thrown out into the streets, families are split apart, parents are murdered, children being forced to accept Sharia law and extreme Islamic beliefs. It is horrendous what is going on.”

“You’re also going to see a group of growing Egyptians here in America that have come here because their family is in danger. Don’t miss it. It’s Wednesday night at 8:00, only on TheBlaze. For the Record.”
http://www.glennbeck.com/2013/05/06/theblaze-investigates-muslim-brotherhood-persecution-of-christians/

[The WH]

meh, all Religions are cults, just big cults.

[zulater]

meh, all Religions are cults, just big cults.

Equating the damage produced by the rest of the world's religion's combined to Islam would be like saying playing Russian Roulette with a water pistol is the same as playing with a fully loaded 44 magnum.

[The WH]

I would like to see number estimates on that zu.

[The WH]

And it isn't a stupid fucking post sir. It's spot fucking on.

[zulater]

And it isn't a stupid fucking post sir. It's spot fucking on.

Really? Tell you what, you start sharing some links of damage being inflicted by Church sponsored violence and mayhem being commited by and in the name of the rest of the worlds religions combined and if there's so much as a week that I can't double what you can produce with real time links of violence and mayham commited by Islamic fanatics I'll stand down.

Your serve.

Good luck. :coffee:

[zulater]

.Nothing? Not a shock. When leftist apologists try to draw an equivilance between main stream religions and Islam if they're confined to this century of course they fall short. Because while genuine religions obviously have some embarrasing skeletons in the closet, the fact is they have progressed past that, and don't in fact jeapordize the health, wealth, and happiness of people who don't see things as they do.

- - - Updated - - -

Why is that? Because at their core real religions aren't violent cults centered around twisted meglomaniacs who made up a bunch of self serving bullshit to further their depravity.

[steeldawg]

.Nothing? Not a shock. When leftist apologists try to draw an equivilance between main stream religions and Islam if they're confined to this century of course they fall short. Because while genuine religions obviously have some embarrasing skeletons in the closet, the fact is they have progressed past that, and don't in fact jeapordize the health, wealth, and happiness of people who don't see things as they do.

- - - Updated - - -

Why is that? Because at their core real religions aren't violent cults centered around twisted meglomaniacs who made up a bunch of self serving bullshit to further their depravity.

Well of course you have to confine it to this century otherwise your argument wouldn't hold up, just because Islamic fanatics are trying to do what Christianity already tried to do doesn't make them anymore or less violent. When you look at the crusades, the religious wars, slaughter of pagans, slaughter of jews, inquisition, heretics, and then look at stuff from this century catholic concentration camps, terror in veitnam, Rwanda massacres, sorry but your beloved Christianity does not get a pass they where just as evil if not even more brutal and they killed large numbers of people at a time when then the population was a lot less. Islam is the cause of a lot of violence no doubt but that in no way wipes out the terrible deeds committed in the name of Christianity.

[zulater]

Well of course you have to confine it to this century otherwise your argument wouldn't hold up, just because Islamic fanatics are trying to do what Christianity already tried to do doesn't make them anymore or less violent. When you look at the crusades, the religious wars, slaughter of pagans, slaughter of jews, inquisition, heretics, and then look at stuff from this century catholic concentration camps, terror in veitnam, Rwanda massacres, sorry but your beloved Christianity does not get a pass they where just as evil if not even more brutal and they killed large numbers of people at a time when then the population was a lot less. Islam is the cause of a lot of violence no doubt but that in no way wipes out the terrible deeds committed in the name of Christianity.

Christianity always had it in it's core to gravitatate away from violent zealotry invoking it's name because the central figure in Christianity, Jesus, whether you believe him to have lived or not, was depicted as a passive individual who didn't commit violent acts or ask that violence be commited for his gain. He didn't have wives, let alone pre pubscent ones, didn't own slaves or endorse slavery, didn't murder of ask it of others, didn't accumulate wealth. etc...

So you can surmise that those who commited mayhem in the name of Jesus did so for personal or political gain. They weren't in fact true representatives of the life that Jesus lived or was wrote to have lived.

But islam at it's core is centered on a violent individual who conquered, killed, and or enslaved those that stood in his way. Therefore Islam will never evolve past violence and mayhem. 50 years from now, 100 years from now, Islam will still be the same. There's no learning curve when your central character is a sociopath.

[steeldawg]

Christianity always had it in it's core to gravitatate away from violent zealotry invoking it's name because the central figure in Christianity, Jesus, whether you believe him to have lived or not, was depicted as a passive individual who didn't commit violent acts or ask that violence be commited for his gain. He didn't have wives, let alone pre pubscent ones, didn't own slaves or endorse slavery, didn't murder of ask it of others, didn't accumulate wealth. etc...

So you can surmise that those who commited mayhem in the name of Jesus did so for personal or political gain. They weren't in fact true representatives of the life that Jesus lived or was wrote to have lived.

But islam at it's core is centered on a violent individual who conquered, killed, and or enslaved those that stood in his way. Therefore Islam will never evolve past violence and mayhem. 50 years from now, 100 years from now, Islam will still be the same. There's no learning curve when your central character is a sociopath.

Makes no difference jesus said if you don't believe in him you will go to hell that is no better, not to mention jesus who is god killed many people including everyone on the planet, again you cannot separate god and jesus they are the same person according to Christianity. Its the same as saying Christianity is different because they are killing for peace.

[zulater]

Makes no difference jesus said if you don't believe in him you will go to hell that is no better, not to mention jesus who is god killed many people including everyone on the planet, again you cannot separate god and jesus they are the same person according to Christianity. Its the same as saying Christianity is different because they are killing for peace.


You're as nuts as Mumhamad! :lol:

Preacher set him straight when you get a chance.\

But on topic.

Muslim maniacs commit murder daily in the name of their prophet.

Those that want to brand Christians and the other worlds religions are forced to go back centuries.

What garbage!!! Fucking landfill!

- - - Updated - - -

Dawg you just argue for the sake of argument. You would argue that the sun rises in the west and sets in the east just to be a contrarian.

[steeldawg]

You're as nuts as Mumhamad! :lol:

Preacher set him straight when you get a chance.\

But on topic.

Muslim maniacs commit murder daily in the name of their prophet.

Those that want to brand Christians and the other worlds religions are forced to go back centuries.

What garbage!!! Fucking landfill!

Zu you cannot erase hundreds of years of holy wars just so the argument fits.

[zulater]

Zu you cannot erase hundreds of years of holy wars just so the argument fits.

So have you got anything recent?

Because I sure do.

Been holding back waiting for WH to respond.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey my great grandfather was a cattle rustler. Guess I should be hanged?

Meanwhile the guy across the road has 6 prositutes buried in the yard. But he's owed a free pass because his granddad was a standup guy.

[steeldawg]

So have you got anything recent?

Because I sure do.

Been holding back waiting for WH to respond.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey my great grandfather was a cattle rustler. Guess I should be hanged?

Meanwhile the guy across the road has 6 prositutes buried in the yard. But hey he's owed a free pass because his granddad was a standup guy.

I don't need anything recent

[zulater]

I don't need anything recent

If you had something you'd offer it. But you don't, or if you did you know I could outdo you 50 fold. So you offer nothing.

[The WH]

If we are going to play this meaningless game, and that is precisely what it is *meanlingless*. Do you want to set ground rules? Time-spans? Do the acts of evil need to be deadly? Do whatever we post have to be done specifically under the banner of a specific cult? or can they be done "in the name of god" by a non-islaamic faction?

BTW, no matter the outcome of this, neither of us are going to change our minds. All religions are cults and/or started as a cult and grew so large in size that they became so socially acceptable that they are referred to as religion. And you are going to maintain that Islaam is a cult and nothing more.

As a matter of fact, how long will I have to play this game of "re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic"- religion/cult edition?

[steeldawg]

If you had something you'd offer it. But you don't, or if you did you know I could outdo you 50 fold. So you offer nothing.

I just offered you plenty and that was just Christianity,but you will just stick your fingers in your ear and yell there is only violence in islam as loud as you can. And the veitnam terror, the catholic concentration camps, and massacres in Rwanda are recent enough. Christianity when put into power and intertwined with government and law making has led to imprisonment, torture, genocide, and death just like in the Islamic theocracies of today there is no difference. And WH is exactly right religions are all cults just bigger.

[zulater]

I just offered you plenty and that was just Christianity,but you will just stick your fingers in your ear and yell there is only violence in islam as loud as you can. And the veitnam terror, the catholic concentration camps, and massacres in Rwanda are recent enough. Christianity when put into power and intertwined with government and law making has led to imprisonment, torture, genocide, and death just like in the Islamic theocracies of today there is no difference. And WH is exactly right religions are all cults just bigger.

Massacres in Rwanda aren't Christian. there's one set of thugs against another. No one's shouting praise Jesus when they lop someone's head off.

You're clueless, not worth the fucking key strokes troll man.

- - - Updated - - -

Saudi jails Lebanese man for helping woman to convert

A Saudi court jailed a Lebanese man for six years and sentenced him to 300 lashes after convicting him of encouraging a Saudi woman to convert to Christianity, local dailies reported Sunday.

The same court sentenced a Saudi man to two years in prison and 200 lashes for having helped the young woman flee the ultra-conservative Muslim kingdom, local daily Al-Watan said.

A court delivered the verdict in Khobar in the kingdom's east, where the woman and the two accused worked for an insurance company.

The July 2012 case caused a stir in Saudi Arabia, which applies a strict version of Islamic Sharia law that stipulates Muslims who convert to another religion must be sentenced to death.

The woman, known only as "the girl of Khobar,” was granted refuge in Sweden where she lives under the protection of unspecified NGOs, according to local press reports.

She had appeared in a YouTube video last year in which she announced that she had chosen to convert to Christianity.

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/lebanonnews/saudi-jails-lebanese-man-for-helping-woman-to-convert

Yeah this happens all the time in Christian society too. :sarcasm:

Dawg probably thinks they deserve to go to jail for helping someone convert to that dangerous cult of Chritianity.

[zulater]

Sharia in UK: Women Pressured to Stay in Abusive Marriages

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/inside-uks-shari-courts?ModPagespeed=noscript

Secretly filmed documentary shows growing trend of Sharia courts deciding fate of Muslim women in UK.

A new documentary secretly filmed inside several of the 85 Islamic Sharia Law courts operating in Britain has exposed the systematic discrimination that many women are suffering at the hands of Muslim jurists.

The documentary, Secrets of Britain's Sharia Courts, was filmed by the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) and was first aired on BBC Panorama, a long-running current affairs program, on April 8.

The undercover investigation proves what has long been suspected: Namely, that Sharia courts, which operate in mosques and houses across Britain, routinely issue rulings on domestic and marital issues according to Islamic Sharia law that are at odds with British law.

Although Sharia rulings are not legally binding, those subject to the rulings often feel obliged to obey them as a matter of religious belief, or because of pressure from family and community members to do so.

The documentary contends that the Sharia courts, run by Muslim judges known as qadi, are putting women at risk of violence from abusive husbands by pressuring them to stay in abusive marriages.

In one case, the BBC secretly filmed proceedings at the Islamic Sharia Council in Leyton, a heavily Islamized area in east London. While there, a BBC reporter met Sonia, a Muslim woman from Leeds who has suffered extreme physical abuse from her husband. When Sonia obtained a civil divorce, the courts allowed her husband only indirect access to the children.

But when Sonia went to Leyton Sharia Council for an Islamic divorce, she was told she would have to give up custody of the children to her husband. According to British law, Sharia courts are not allowed to interfere in child access matters.

After Sonia threatened to contact the police, the Leyton Sharia Council dropped its demand.

Reflecting on the court case, Sonia said, "I could not bear the thought of such a violent person having my children. What was shocking was when I explained to them why he should not have that access to the children, their reaction was, well, you cannot go against what Islam says."

In another case, a Muslim convert from Bristol named Cara contacted the Leyton Sharia Council for a divorce. Cara, who met her husband at university, had been persuaded to have only a Sharia marriage. After the wedding, she was abused by her husband, who allegedly controlled her by taking all of her earnings. After he brought prostitutes to their home, Cara ran away to a shelter.

The Leyton Sharia Council told Cara she would have be accompanied by her estranged husband for arbitration. "I was shocked," says Cara. "Surely they can see that women who have been through this cannot be forced to meet up with someone who is abusing them."

The BBC then sent an undercover reporter to the Leyton Sharia Council to see what advice its members would give a vulnerable female client. Her story was that her husband was hitting her.

During the proceedings, the secret recordings show that Suhaib Hasan, a senior member of the Leyton Sharia Council, told the undercover reporter that going to the police would result in her having to go to a shelter, which, he said, was a "very bad option."

Hasan suggested that she ask herself if the violence was due to her own actions, then urged her to redouble her efforts to be a good wife by cooking and cleaning for her husband.

The BBC also filmed proceedings at Sharia Council of Dewsbury, a city in West Yorkshire that is a magnet for Muslim immigration. (Islamists have promised to turn Dewsbury into an independent Islamic state ruled by Sharia law, and entirely apart from British jurisprudence.)

The documentary also shows a woman named Ayesha who has been physically abused by her estranged husband and then went to the Dewsbury Sharia Council to get a divorce. Although her husband has been imprisoned for violence, Ayesha was told she would have to go to mediation with him. The advice ignored injunctions issued by a British court and which Ayesha and her children hold against her husband due to his abuse.

According to Ayesha, "I cannot do that because he is not even allowed near my house, and because I am frightened. I cannot face him... but they did not take any notice."

- - - Updated - - -

Every time Dawg posts in this thread I will post at least two examples of Islam run amok within the last fortnight.

[steeldawg]

Sharia in UK: Women Pressured to Stay in Abusive Marriages

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/inside-uks-shari-courts?ModPagespeed=noscript

Secretly filmed documentary shows growing trend of Sharia courts deciding fate of Muslim women in UK.

A new documentary secretly filmed inside several of the 85 Islamic Sharia Law courts operating in Britain has exposed the systematic discrimination that many women are suffering at the hands of Muslim jurists.

The documentary, Secrets of Britain's Sharia Courts, was filmed by the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) and was first aired on BBC Panorama, a long-running current affairs program, on April 8.

The undercover investigation proves what has long been suspected: Namely, that Sharia courts, which operate in mosques and houses across Britain, routinely issue rulings on domestic and marital issues according to Islamic Sharia law that are at odds with British law.

Although Sharia rulings are not legally binding, those subject to the rulings often feel obliged to obey them as a matter of religious belief, or because of pressure from family and community members to do so.

The documentary contends that the Sharia courts, run by Muslim judges known as qadi, are putting women at risk of violence from abusive husbands by pressuring them to stay in abusive marriages.

In one case, the BBC secretly filmed proceedings at the Islamic Sharia Council in Leyton, a heavily Islamized area in east London. While there, a BBC reporter met Sonia, a Muslim woman from Leeds who has suffered extreme physical abuse from her husband. When Sonia obtained a civil divorce, the courts allowed her husband only indirect access to the children.

But when Sonia went to Leyton Sharia Council for an Islamic divorce, she was told she would have to give up custody of the children to her husband. According to British law, Sharia courts are not allowed to interfere in child access matters.

After Sonia threatened to contact the police, the Leyton Sharia Council dropped its demand.

Reflecting on the court case, Sonia said, "I could not bear the thought of such a violent person having my children. What was shocking was when I explained to them why he should not have that access to the children, their reaction was, well, you cannot go against what Islam says."

In another case, a Muslim convert from Bristol named Cara contacted the Leyton Sharia Council for a divorce. Cara, who met her husband at university, had been persuaded to have only a Sharia marriage. After the wedding, she was abused by her husband, who allegedly controlled her by taking all of her earnings. After he brought prostitutes to their home, Cara ran away to a shelter.

The Leyton Sharia Council told Cara she would have be accompanied by her estranged husband for arbitration. "I was shocked," says Cara. "Surely they can see that women who have been through this cannot be forced to meet up with someone who is abusing them."

The BBC then sent an undercover reporter to the Leyton Sharia Council to see what advice its members would give a vulnerable female client. Her story was that her husband was hitting her.

During the proceedings, the secret recordings show that Suhaib Hasan, a senior member of the Leyton Sharia Council, told the undercover reporter that going to the police would result in her having to go to a shelter, which, he said, was a "very bad option."

Hasan suggested that she ask herself if the violence was due to her own actions, then urged her to redouble her efforts to be a good wife by cooking and cleaning for her husband.

The BBC also filmed proceedings at Sharia Council of Dewsbury, a city in West Yorkshire that is a magnet for Muslim immigration. (Islamists have promised to turn Dewsbury into an independent Islamic state ruled by Sharia law, and entirely apart from British jurisprudence.)

The documentary also shows a woman named Ayesha who has been physically abused by her estranged husband and then went to the Dewsbury Sharia Council to get a divorce. Although her husband has been imprisoned for violence, Ayesha was told she would have to go to mediation with him. The advice ignored injunctions issued by a British court and which Ayesha and her children hold against her husband due to his abuse.

According to Ayesha, "I cannot do that because he is not even allowed near my house, and because I am frightened. I cannot face him... but they did not take any notice."

- - - Updated - - -

Every time Dawg posts in this thread I will post at least two examples of Islam run amok within the last fortnight.

well good for you but no matter how many atrocities you post about islam you will never be able to erase the bloody history of Christianity.

[The WH]

Zu, what about all of those women in abusive marriages that weren't allowed to leave because the church wouldn't grant them a divorce in the eyes of church?

[X-Terminator]

All religions are cults and/or started as a cult and grew so large in size that they became so socially acceptable that they are referred to as religion.

This is actually a fair point, if you're willing to think about it rather than take it as an insult. Islam simply takes it far beyond the extreme, which is why admittedly I am nervous around any Muslim. I do not have the same feeling around Christians or people of other faiths, though obviously Christianity/Catholicism has plenty of blood on their hands.

[zulater]

well good for you but no matter how many atrocities you post about islam you will never be able to erase the bloody history of Christianity.

Yeah and no much how you want to deny you can't deny the current daly attrocities commited in the name of Islam on every corner of the globe.

[steeldawg]

Yeah and no much how you want to deny you can't deny the current daly attrocities commited in the name of Islam on every corner of the globe.

Im not denying atrocities committed by islamists, you continue to make a strawman argument, you contend that violence in other religions doesn't compare to islam but it does if you look at the atrocities commited by Christianity they where just as violent. You just want to make it into some competition where you want Christianity to appear superior to islam but I see them both as evil, manipulative, cults.

[zulater]

Im not denying atrocities committed by islamists, you continue to make a strawman argument, you contend that violence in other religions doesn't compare to islam but it does if you look at the atrocities commited by Christianity they where just as violent. You just want to make it into some competition where you want Christianity to appear superior to islam but I see them both as evil, manipulative, cults.

Were being the key word. But they really weren't.( I'll make that case another day) But they were pretty bad back in the day all the same.

And what you refuse to see is that Christianity has evolved past the point where there's not a single major leader of the Christian faith who advocates violence against non believers, who advocates terrorist acts, who condones murder, and torture. Check the membership roll of Amnesty International, it's loaded with Christains. The faith has evolved!

Islam hasn't and never will because the cental character to the faith as depicted in the Holy and unimpeachable Koran was a violent meglomaniac.

[steeldawg]

Were being the key word. But they really weren't.( I'll make that case another day) But they were pretty bad back in the day all the same.

And what you refuse to see is that Christianity has evolved past the point where there's not a single major leader of the Christian faith who advocates violence against non believers, who advocates terrorist acts, who condones murder, and torture. Check the membership roll of Amnesty International, it's loaded with Christains. The faith has evolved!

Islam hasn't and never will because the cental character to the faith as depicted in the Holy and unimpeachable Koran was a violent meglomaniac.

Its not an evolution of Christianity its an evolution of our society, Its the reason we do not have Christian theocracies, its the reason we do not claim ourselves as a Christian nation, its the reason we maintain strong lines of separation of church and state. The religion is what it is and we already have seen what happens when you mix religion with law it leads to death and genocide. If Christianity stood for peace, freedom, and goodness at its core then we would most certainly use it to govern all over the world, but we don't, because it doesn't. By the way the god of the bibull was an extreme megalomaniac.

[zulater]

Its not an evolution of Christianity its an evolution of our society, Its the reason we do not have Christian theocracies, its the reason we do not claim ourselves as a Christian nation, its the reason we maintain strong lines of separation of church and state. The religion is what it is and we already have seen what happens when you mix religion with law it leads to death and genocide. If Christianity stood for peace, freedom, and goodness at its core then we would most certainly use it to govern all over the world, but we don't, because it doesn't. By the way the god of the bibull was an extreme megalomaniac.

10 years from now, 50 years from now, 100 years from now Islam will still be as violent and dangerous as it is now.

[steeldawg]

10 years from now, 50 years from now, 100 years from now Islam will still be as violent and dangerous as it is now.

thats quite an assumption.

[zulater]

thats quite an assumption.

Considering Islam's last 100 years compared to the other worlds religions. Not really

[zulater]

http://patdollard.com/2013/05/8-yr-old-afghan-bride-who-was-brutally-killed-by-her-mullah-husband-on-the-first-night-of-her-wedding/

[zulater]

Muslim pop singer Omnia Hegazy tackles religion’s rules, ‘nervous’ about her safety

Pop singer Omnia Hegazy isn’t one to keep quiet about inequities she sees in her Muslim religion. The young artist is working to draw attention to issues in her homeland of Egypt that she says that many would rather ignore, while treading a fine line between critiquing her community and defending it.
The New York-raised recording artist said it was a recent visit to her home country that sparked songs which upset some of her friends.
“I have always been the person at the dinner table to argue with you about politics and I will not shut up,” Hegazy told FOX411’s Pop Tarts column. “Music is an avenue for me to express that.”
“There are a lot of issues, like honor killing, that go on,” she said. “For instance, we were at a beach, and it was extremely hot. All the women were covered up head-to-toe in black, and all the men were wearing Speedos, and that’s how I started writing my song ‘Grace.’ We are all covered up and you men are not, what’s going on here?”
“Grace,” which Hegazy says celebrates female empowerment and beauty in all ages, shapes and sizes, is featured on her sophomore album “Judgment Day,” released earlier this month. Indeed its lyrics are quite direct:
Cover your face
Before you poison all our souls
Cover your mouth
Before it tells us something we don't know
Cover your body
For your skin incinerates
The will of weakened men who just might lose their faith
Our heads our full of color inside
Why is it that we should hide
Who ever gave you the right to step on our pride?


The next topic she wants to tackle is Muslim women being forced to wear a headscarf, known as a hijab.
“A lot of the women on my dad’s side wear the hijab, and I have no problem with someone choosing to wear it,” said Hegazy, whose father is Muslim and whose mother was raised Irish Catholic. “I grew up believing it was a choice, but I think there is a lot of pressure on young Muslim girls to wear it, and it is becoming not a choice, which I don’t think is right.”
But Hegazy says being outspoken comes at a cost.
“There are a lot of people, not just even traditional Muslims, these are everyday Muslims and friends I have had, who have said, ‘I disagree with what you said,’” she told us. “It’s the point that there isn’t a lot of debate in that community and we’re all supposed to think the same... I can’t really do that.”
Hegazy says the criticism goes beyond just a difference in opinion.
“I will admit I do get nervous, I try to keep my family out of things when people ask. I need to start budgeting for security,” she said. “But I won’t stop doing what I do because of a few crazy people.”



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/05/29/muslim-pop-singer-omnia-hegazy-tackles-religions-rules-nervous-about-her-safety/#ixzz2UhCo2C89

[Mach1]

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[Mach1]

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