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View Full Version : Your Steelers are now under the cap



stillers4me
02-28-2013, 07:48 PM
With three strokes of the pen, the Steelers have gotten themselves under the NFL salary cap, which now appears as if is going to be $123.9 million, an increase of about $2.3 million from 2012.

After restructuring the contracts of Lawrence Timmons, at a savings of $5.3 million, Antonio Brown at $3 million and Ben Roethlisberger at $6 million, the Steelers pared $14.3 million from their cap, which should put them under as they needed to be by March 12.

That's significant because the team did not need to release any players to get to that number and still has enough wiggle room by restructuring, say, LaMarr Woodley's deal, to be somewhat active in free agency.........

read more @ http://burgh.us/knf

Count Steeler
02-28-2013, 07:55 PM
That was a quick week's work. They still need to clear about 10mil though, for the draft class and any FA signings they may go after.

Psycho Ward 86
02-28-2013, 10:14 PM
people still need to be released for the reasons said above. im still seeing the possibility of ike taylor being cut that zulater mentioned a while back (in order to sign keenan lewis)

oneforthetoe
03-01-2013, 03:29 AM
people still need to be released for the reasons said above. im still seeing the possibility of ike taylor being cut that zulater mentioned a while back (in order to sign keenan lewis)

Even if the Steelers are planning on releasing Ike, it would be wise to continue to restructure contracts to try and get Lewis signed first. If you release Ike before you sign Lewis, you have just handed Lewis' agent all the cards. FWIW, I don't think Ike will released. Lewis has been promising, but hardly a proven commodity as the number one corner.

steelreserve
03-01-2013, 02:40 PM
please please PLEASE don't restructure Woodley. Don't make him uncuttable because of dead monkey next year. If he sucks again this season, let's have the option to kick his ass to the curb and then run.


*should be dead money, not dead monkey, but I'm leaving it because I laughed

Psycho Ward 86
03-01-2013, 05:00 PM
Even if the Steelers are planning on releasing Ike, it would be wise to continue to restructure contracts to try and get Lewis signed first. If you release Ike before you sign Lewis, you have just handed Lewis' agent all the cards. FWIW, I don't think Ike will released. Lewis has been promising, but hardly a proven commodity as the number one corner.

interesting. i keep hearing this phantom speculation about keenan being unable to become the #1 corner far more than any speculation of sanders being able to become the #2 receiver. who has keenan even played poorly against? looks to me like he did extremely well sans the lack of interceptions. just like ike

Steeltreal
03-01-2013, 05:19 PM
Up until last seasons injury Ike never missed a game , no Steeler has more starts than Ike T., Why would he be released?

steelreserve
03-02-2013, 04:21 AM
interesting. i keep hearing this phantom speculation about keenan being unable to become the #1 corner far more than any speculation of sanders being able to become the #2 receiver. who has keenan even played poorly against? looks to me like he did extremely well sans the lack of interceptions. just like ike

Probably a lot of the uncertainty is because Lewis did have plenty of games with shaky play over the past 3 years before this one. Most of the time you'd go whatever, he's improved and it's water under the bridge, but CB is the most up-and-down position in the NFL. Doesn't mean the fears are well-founded, but that's why people are nervous. Especailly if a lot of money might be involved. I can't think on any other position besides WR where $7M or $8M a season gets wasted so often. It does happen, and with our cap situation, it would be disastrous if we rolled the dice and lost. We've got to do something, though.



Up until last seasons injury Ike never missed a game , no Steeler has more starts than Ike T., Why would he be released?

Because of his $10M cap number and because people are worried about his play dropping off, that's why. I don't think it would make sense to cut him this year anyway though, financially or talent-wise. Next year we'll see.

Psycho Ward 86
03-02-2013, 01:32 PM
Up until last seasons injury Ike never missed a game , no Steeler has more starts than Ike T., Why would he be released?

what steelreserve said, that and we dont know how many more productive years were going to get out of him. cant expect ALL of our veteran players to be serviceable up to age 35. thats just not going to happen

id rather have keenan lewis stick with us for a long long time than to have ike for just a tad longer

- - - Updated - - -


Probably a lot of the uncertainty is because Lewis did have plenty of games with shaky play over the past 3 years before this one. Most of the time you'd go whatever, he's improved and it's water under the bridge, but CB is the most up-and-down position in the NFL.

you mean like 3-4 years ago? thats going really far back. he played great this season (i dont think anyone can possibly dispute this) and he was an awesome nickel corner last season. i see what you mean though. i mean really he only has 1 full season as a starter, and 1 full season as a nickel, and only 2 full seasons altogether of actually contributing to this team

BigNastyDefense
03-04-2013, 05:07 PM
I don't see Keenan Lewis getting some mega contract. He's got one years starting experience and while he played exceptionally well, it doesn't mean he gets the mega bucks we've seen guys with proven track records get. He got paid what, a couple of hundred thousand last season? A few million in the signing bonus, a couple million a year for 3-4 years to prove himself....and then the big contract of he plays at a level like last year consistently.

As for cutting Ike, I don't like that idea. So he can be signed by someone else and hurt us in the playoffs? No thanks. He's still a top player at his position, IMHO.

86WARD
03-04-2013, 06:17 PM
They're losing Wallace, most likely losing Lewis, not to mention whimever else becomes a cap casualty. They've been mismanaging the cap for a while now, holding on to players for too long (probably b/c of the Super Bowl victories/appearances and I can understand their logic, but it's too long,) the drafting has been less than solid and it's all starting to move to the front of the "line." But hey, they got Antonio Brown locked up...

zulater
03-04-2013, 07:35 PM
Somehow or other I expect the Steelers to put a quality product on the field this season. One that with luck and a few less untimely and critical injuries could make some serious noise in the playoffs.

When that occurs I promise you I wont be pissing and moaning because there's going to be difficult decisions that will have to made the following March.

Just saying.

86WARD
03-04-2013, 08:47 PM
This team is headed for a big let down soon unless this ship gets righted and quick. For example: 2005 to 2009 has yielded how many players out if the draft? Not counting the return of William Gay...it's quite pathetic. The draft has been quite horrible...that doesn't worry you?

zulater
03-04-2013, 09:44 PM
This team is headed for a big let down soon unless this ship gets righted and quick. For example: 2005 to 2009 has yielded how many players out if the draft? Not counting the return of William Gay...it's quite pathetic. The draft has been quite horrible...that doesn't worry you?




Honestly the 2013 season can go any number of ways. Hell free agency hasn't even started or the draft. Maybe the 2012 draft will pay big dividends this year? If Adams, Gilbert, and DeCastro prove to be worthy starters next season then Colbert is looking a whole lot smarter.

Anyway I'm not going to worry about September in early March. It's not as though my check is dependent on it. So for now I'll take the glass half full approach. Because honestly I know the Steelers at their best last season were just about as good as anyone in the league was. So we'll see what they do, where the chips fall. And in the end if Ben can play a full season as he was playing before he got hurt last season I like our chances.

GBMelBlount
03-05-2013, 07:08 AM
Honestly the 2013 season can go any number of ways. Hell free agency hasn't even started or the draft. Maybe the 2012 draft will pay big dividends this year? If Adams, Gilbert, and DeCastro prove to be worthy starters next season then Colbert is looking a whole lot smarter.

Anyway I'm not going to worry about September in early March. It's not as though my check is dependent on it. So for now I'll take the glass half full approach. Because honestly I know the Steelers at their best last season were just about as good as anyone in the league was. So we'll see what they do, where the chips fall. And in the end if Ben can play a full season as he was playing before he got hurt last season I like our chances.

I agree.

Most of our losses last year were NOT to better teams.

If our offensive line gels and the injury gods are kind we could have a very good 2013.

86WARD
03-05-2013, 07:16 AM
If, if, if.

zulater
03-05-2013, 07:02 PM
You'd think the Steelers were coming off a decade straight of playoff misses reading some people's posts.

TMC
03-07-2013, 11:47 AM
This team is headed for a big let down soon unless this ship gets righted and quick. For example: 2005 to 2009 has yielded how many players out if the draft? Not counting the return of William Gay...it's quite pathetic. The draft has been quite horrible...that doesn't worry you?

That may be a little bit of an exaggeration. I do a study on draft picks, one out of every 3 first round picks is a bust each season. By bust, it means he does not dress (dress, not play) for 80 games in his career. The numbers increase significantly as you move down rounds. Over the whole draft, roughly 65% of all players drafted are busts. With 7 selections, that means you will get 5 players every 2 years that stick for 80 games or more (it is 2.5 per season). Over the course of the 5 seasons you mention, an average NFL team should land 12-13 players that dress for more than 80 games.

Here are the players that fit the bill for each season:
2005-Heath Miller and Bryant McFadden reach the baseline. Essex and Kemo missed by less than 10 games, still, only 2.
2006-Santonio Holmes and Willie Colon meet the criteria or are on roster and will likely meet it (not enough years yet, I usually do not include drafts this close because some players have not reached the 80 game plateau and will).
2007-Timmons, Woodley, and Gay meed the mark.
2008-Mendenhall and Mundy will meet the mark. McBean has an outside chance as he keeps finding teams.
2009-Hood, Urbik, Wallace, and Lewis will all meet the mark.

So, you are looking at 13 that make it, possibly a few more as time wears on. The issue is not that the Steelers have been below average. The issue is Colbert set a very high bar between 2000 to 2004, loading the team with excellent talent like Roethlisberger, Hampton, Ike Taylor, Polamalu, and others. He set a high bar. He has been average for a few seasons, looks to be coming back with some selections though as Pouncey is a highly regarded center, Brown has that it factor, Allen has potential, and DeCastro was lauded as being the second coming of Faneca.

Drafts have been average, not quite horrible.

Psycho Ward 86
03-07-2013, 11:53 AM
That may be a little bit of an exaggeration. I do a study on draft picks, one out of every 3 first round picks is a bust each season. By bust, it means he does not dress (dress, not play) for 80 games in his career. The numbers increase significantly as you move down rounds. Over the whole draft, roughly 65% of all players drafted are busts. With 7 selections, that means you will get 5 players every 2 years that stick for 80 games or more (it is 2.5 per season). Over the course of the 5 seasons you mention, an average NFL team should land 12-13 players that dress for more than 80 games.

Here are the players that fit the bill for each season:
2005-Heath Miller and Bryant McFadden reach the baseline. Essex and Kemo missed by less than 10 games, still, only 2.
2006-Santonio Holmes and Willie Colon meet the criteria or are on roster and will likely meet it (not enough years yet, I usually do not include drafts this close because some players have not reached the 80 game plateau and will).
2007-Timmons, Woodley, and Gay meed the mark.
2008-Mendenhall and Mundy will meet the mark. McBean has an outside chance as he keeps finding teams.
2009-Hood, Urbik, Wallace, and Lewis will all meet the mark.

So, you are looking at 13 that make it, possibly a few more as time wears on. The issue is not that the Steelers have been below average. The issue is Colbert set a very high bar between 2000 to 2004, loading the team with excellent talent like Roethlisberger, Hampton, Ike Taylor, Polamalu, and others. He set a high bar. He has been average for a few seasons, looks to be coming back with some selections though as Pouncey is a highly regarded center, Brown has that it factor, Allen has potential, and DeCastro was lauded as being the second coming of Faneca.

Drafts have been average, not quite horrible.

Average isnt good enough for a team that builds through the draft and cant afford to buy big impact free agents. We have to be good/great. Even so its not just the draft were looking at. were looking at the whole picture. Are we drafting well, are we able to sign our young rising stars, and are we able to sign the free agents we want to patch up some holes? The 2nd one is about to become a big fat no, even if we throw wallace completely out of the picture.

TMC
03-07-2013, 01:11 PM
Average isnt good enough for a team that builds through the draft and cant afford to buy big impact free agents. We have to be good/great. Even so its not just the draft were looking at. were looking at the whole picture. Are we drafting well, are we able to sign our young rising stars, and are we able to sign the free agents we want to patch up some holes? The 2nd one is about to become a big fat no, even if we throw wallace completely out of the picture.

The premise I address was not if it was good or great. The poster stated it was pathetic. That is not the case. Now, if you want to discuss how the whole roster is formed, we can.

The problem is not in the method in which the roster was built. The problem lies in the Steelers not forecasting that the new CBA would decrease the cap number significantly. Prior to the new CBA, they signed deals with the expectation that the cap number would continue to rise, or even if it stayed stagnant, it would not even near the decrease felt with the current cap amount. The salary cap, prior to the new deal, had risen between 5-7% annually. In years with new TV deals, it had increased by as much as 16%. So, if you look at the salary cap with a conservative 5% increase, you should expect the caps to be:
2009-$123M
2010-uncapped, estimate should be $129
2011-$135.6M
2012-$142M
2013-$149.5M

Even a conservative estimate would have had them in a solid position to work within the cap and continue to sign their own free agents. When the new CBA reset the cap, it destroyed the Steelers agenda and they have had to work to recover since. In fact, this year with the cap rising to $123M, it is just now getting back to the amount it was prior to the new CBA.

To expect them to compete when the new CBA completely changed the landscape and constricted their way of doing business is a little unrealistic. Still, they have went to a Super Bowl in 2010. They are now 2 years removed. They had an 8-8 season. The Steelers had a similar run in 2006. It appears they bounced back in 2007 and won a Super Bowl in 2008, going again in 2010. I wonder if the same "sky is falling" attitude was present in the summer of 2007?

As for who is signed, I think the prudent move would be to wait to see what happens before you call it a day. As the original post points out, they are already under the salary cap. They are working with Harrison to create room. They can also restructure Woodley to create more. It is not like they cannot make room to sign players, but signing guys for the sake of signing guys does not win championships either.

Mojouw
03-07-2013, 01:17 PM
The premise I address was not if it was good or great. The poster stated it was pathetic. That is not the case. Now, if you want to discuss how the whole roster is formed, we can.

The problem is not in the method in which the roster was built. The problem lies in the Steelers not forecasting that the new CBA would decrease the cap number significantly. Prior to the new CBA, they signed deals with the expectation that the cap number would continue to rise, or even if it stayed stagnant, it would not even near the decrease felt with the current cap amount. The salary cap, prior to the new deal, had risen between 5-7% annually. In years with new TV deals, it had increased by as much as 16%. So, if you look at the salary cap with a conservative 5% increase, you should expect the caps to be:
2009-$123M
2010-uncapped, estimate should be $129
2011-$135.6M
2012-$142M
2013-$149.5M

Even a conservative estimate would have had them in a solid position to work within the cap and continue to sign their own free agents. When the new CBA reset the cap, it destroyed the Steelers agenda and they have had to work to recover since. In fact, this year with the cap rising to $123M, it is just now getting back to the amount it was prior to the new CBA.

To expect them to compete when the new CBA completely changed the landscape and constricted their way of doing business is a little unrealistic. Still, they have went to a Super Bowl in 2010. They are now 2 years removed. They had an 8-8 season. The Steelers had a similar run in 2006. It appears they bounced back in 2007 and won a Super Bowl in 2008, going again in 2010. I wonder if the same "sky is falling" attitude was present in the summer of 2007?

As for who is signed, I think the prudent move would be to wait to see what happens before you call it a day. As the original post points out, they are already under the salary cap. They are working with Harrison to create room. They can also restructure Woodley to create more. It is not like they cannot make room to sign players, but signing guys for the sake of signing guys does not win championships either.


Great post. Wish I was able to say the same thing as clearly and coherently.