Tomlin vs. Cowher first 6 years

[zulater]

This isn't meant as a slam to either, or a glorification of one over the other. It's just a simple comparison of the record each accrued over the first 6 years of their head coaching tenure.

One rule here. Let's not interject Cowher's overall career record into the conversation. As we have no way of knowing how Tomlin will fare in the seasons ahead.

In fact judging by the way last season went it wouldn't surprise me at all if his next few seasons resemble Cowher's late 90's run.

Regardless, here's how they stack up against each other over their first 6 seasons.

Overall record.

Regular season: Cowher 64-32, Tomlin 63-33

Playoffs: Tomlin 5-3, Cowher 5-6

Division titles: Cowher 5, Tomlin 3

Playoff appearances: Cowher 6, Tomlin 4

Advance to divisional round of playoffs (final 8): Cowher 5, Tomlin 2

Record in AFC championship game: Tomlin 2 wins 0 losses, Cowher 1 win 2 losses

Super Bowl: Tomlin 1 win 1 loss, Cowher 0 wins 1 loss.

Inherited quality core players.

Cowher: Rod Woodson, Gregg Lloyd, Dermonti Dawson, Carnell Lake, Barry Foster, Eric Green

Tomlin: Ben Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, James Farrior, Aaron Smith, Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes

Discuss.

Or not? :lol:

[Dwinsgames]

actually Tomlin inherited a SB team with a hell of a lot more core players than you bothered to mention ..Cowher inherited a team that lacked true playoff ability and had very few stars

[zulater]

actually Tomlin inherited a SB team with a hell of a lot more core players than you bothered to mention ..Cowher inherited a team that lacked true playoff ability and had very few stars

I left out a bunch for both coaches. Feel free to add to the list as you see fit.


the point is neither inherited an empty cupboard. And just as Cowher made Barry Foster into a better player, so did Tomlin in the case of James Harrison.

[X-Terminator]

This isn't meant as a slam to either, or a glorification of one over the other.

But you know that's what it's going to turn into. Because it's pretty obvious that Tomlin has not been embraced by a large section of the fanbase despite his success...which they either downplay or refuse to give him credit for.

[Craic]

But you know that's what it's going to turn into. Because it's pretty obvious that Tomlin has not been embraced by a large section of the fanbase despite his success...which they either downplay or refuse to give him credit for until the next coach takes over the reigns of the team. At that point, Tomlin will be given a makeover and will be a great coach and the succeeding coach will not be embraced by a large section of the fanbase despite his success, for pretty much the same reasons.

Fixed it for you.

[zulater]

But you know that's what it's going to turn into. Because it's pretty obvious that Tomlin has not been embraced by a large section of the fanbase despite his success...which they either downplay or refuse to give him credit for.

Regardless, I think the numbers pretty much make it a draw between the two.

Cowher gets a nod for consistency, and Tomlin gets the advantage for big game performance.

And if you're going to break the tie I suppose a Super Bowl win would be a good place to start.

[steelerdude15]

This isn't meant as a slam to either, or a glorification of one over the other. It's just a simple comparison of the record each accrued over the first 6 years of their head coaching tenure.

One rule here. Let's not interject Cowher's overall career record into the conversation. As we have no way of knowing how Tomlin will fare in the seasons ahead.

In fact judging by the way last season went it wouldn't surprise me at all if his next few seasons resemble Cowher's late 90's run.

Regardless, here's how they stack up against each other over their first 6 seasons.

Overall record.

Regular season: Cowher 64-32, Tomlin 63-33

Playoffs: Tomlin 5-3, Cowher 5-6

Division titles: Cowher 5, Tomlin 3

Playoff appearances: Cowher 6, Tomlin 4

Advance to divisional round of playoffs (final 8): Cowher 5, Tomlin 2

Record in AFC championship game: Tomlin 2 wins 0 losses, Cowher 1 win 2 losses

Super Bowl: Tomlin 1 win 1 loss, Cowher 0 wins 1 loss.

Inherited quality core players.

Cowher: Rod Woodson, Gregg Lloyd, Dermonti Dawson, Carnell Lake, Barry Foster, Eric Green

Tomlin: Ben Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, James Farrior, Aaron Smith, Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes

Discuss.

Or not? :lol:

The Steeler won Super Bowl Forty with Cowher.

[86WARD]

It's only the first 6 seasons.

[Shoes]

Regardless, I think the numbers pretty much make it a draw between the two.

Cowher gets a nod for consistency, and Tomlin gets the advantage for big game performance.

And if you're going to break the tie I suppose a Super Bowl win would be a good place to start.

That's pretty much how I see it. I think this next season will show what Mike is made of. Lot's of uncertainties and he has to pull it together.

[steelerdude15]

The Steeler won Super Bowl Forty with Cowher.

When I made the previous statement, I forgot it was the first six years. Sorry about that. :chuckle:

[st33lersguy]

The Steelers missed the playoffs 6 of the 7 seasons before Cowher arrived and his first 6 seasons Cowher took them to the playoffs. Tomlin inherited a team 2 years removed from the Super Bowl and could have taken the Steelers to the playoffs his first 6 season had it not been for incredibly awful coaching jobs 2 of those 6 seasons

[Dwinsgames]

The Steelers missed the playoffs 6 of the 7 seasons before Cowher arrived and his first 6 seasons Cowher took them to the playoffs. Tomlin inherited a team 2 years removed from the Super Bowl and could have taken the Steelers to the playoffs his first 6 season had it not been for incredibly awful coaching jobs 2 of those 6 seasons

this

but I do not put it all on Tomlin the league has changed and so has a coaches ability to coach , 2 a days are a thing of the past , padded practices in season are almost a thing of the past ... that being said it is the same for every team so not so sure how much of an excuse can really be made of it ....

[pepsyman1]

I think Tomlin is a quality coach and overall has done a good job. My only complaint is that he's been (or at least appears to be) a little soft with the players when they've under performed and not backed up statements he's made when they've struggled. The "unleash hell" statement will be with him forever in Pittsburgh and the fact that after he said it no major changes happened. I think that that perception will stay with him until the team looks a little more disciplined.

[Count Steeler]

This upcoming season will be a very important one for the legacy of Tomlin. If this team continues to lack discipline, I don't think he will get renewed and may even get fired.

[zulater]

This upcoming season will be a very important one for the legacy of Tomlin. If this team continues to lack discipline, I don't think he will get renewed and may even get fired.

Actually though Cowher's record and his similarities might mean they wont fire him if they struggle in the next few years. Cowher was given 3 straight non playoff years (98-2000) without losing his job. So the Steelers, the very champions of the Rooney rule, would have to consider long and hard before not giving Tomlin an equal benifit of the doubt.

[GBMelBlount]

Best thread (and posts) in a long time Zu. Thanks.

I agree with Count.

While it may be partially due to older players with rings, the collective apathy and lack of fire the past few years rests primarily on Tomlin's shoulders imo.

[zulater]

The Steelers missed the playoffs 6 of the 7 seasons before Cowher arrived and his first 6 seasons Cowher took them to the playoffs. Tomlin inherited a team 2 years removed from the Super Bowl and could have taken the Steelers to the playoffs his first 6 season had it not been for incredibly awful coaching jobs 2 of those 6 seasons

I get what you say, but truthfully Cowher inherited 2 Hall of Fame players in their prime in Rod Woodson, and Dirt Dawson. And Carnell Lake and Gregg Llloyd were perenial All Pro's in their time as well, and he got benifit of many of their best seasons.

Also those Steelers team were more agressive in free agency and trades, getting first rate talents such as Kevin Greene, James Farrior,& Will Wolford in free agency, and pulling the trigger on the Jerome Bettis deal.

As much as anything the difference might be that in cowher's time the front office had more balls than they seem to now.

[GBMelBlount]

I get what you say, but truthfully Cowher inherited 2 Hall of Fame players in their prime in Rod Woodson, and Dirt Dawson. And Carnell Lake and Gregg Llloyd were perenial All Pro's in their time as well, and he got benifit of many of their best seasons.

Also those Steelers team were more agressive in free agency and trades, getting first rate talents such as Kevin Greene, Will Wolford in free agency, and pulling the trigger on the Jerome Bettis deal.

As much as anything the difference might be that in cowher's time the front office had more ball than they seem to now.

More balls or more relative cap space?

[zulater]

More balls or more relative cap space?

Good point. Put it this way, the front office seemed to be more receptive and creative in bringing in starting caliber outside talent then than they are now. Cap management is obviously part of it.

[bayz101]

Great thread. The whole "inherited a Super Bowl team" bullshit that gets pulled every time someone compares Tomlin to Cowher pisses me off.

[SteelerEmpire]

It's been average (8-8 in 2012) to above average (1 SB win, 2 SB appearances) under Tomlin. So can't really complain.

[zulater]

Great thread. The whole "inherited a Super Bowl team" bullshit that gets pulled every time someone compares Tomlin to Cowher pisses me off.

When I introduced this topic I really had no intent other than try to provoke some interesting Steelers related discussion. In other words I had no agenda and wasn't trying to promote either over the other. The fact that that after 6 years they're only seperated by one win, playoffs and regular season inclusive I found to be quite remarkable. And I thought it was something worth introducing to the board.

But as you delve into a topic, and try to bring some relevant fact to the table, occasionally you strike upon something interesting. And in this case what jumps out at me that I hadn't really thought of before was the difference in the front office's approach to bringing in outside talent then as opposed to now.

In those first 6 seasons Cowher got solid production from off roster NFL veterans such as Kevin Greene, Nolan Harrison, Will Wolford, Eric Peagram, John L. Williams, Tim Lester, Ray Seals, Duval Love, Donald Evans etc...

What veterans of any consequence have been brought in since Tomlin came to the job? I was all ready to at least chalk in Ryan Clark for a Tomlin era free agent score, but then I checked, and he came aboard in 2006. Cowher's last season.

I'm not blaming Tomlin for change in organizational philosophy, I put it on those above him. Art III and Colbert. The new attitude towards bringing in outside talent to address specific and critical needs borders on arrogance. And if you want to know why there's so much complancey on the roster, perhaps the thought that you don't have to worry about outside talent coming in and replacing you if you underperform, maybe that's a good starting point? It's a lot easier to fend of the occasional rookie challenge than one from a guy with actual NFL chops.

[GBMelBlount]

The new attitude towards bringing in outside talent to address specific and critical needs borders on arrogance.


I am missing the connection with arrogance. Can you explain this...

[zulater]

I am missing the connection with arrogance. Can you explain this...

Simple. The attitude of the Steelers front office appears to me to be that if we didn't draft you, or sign you as an unknown, we don't want you.

Go through the franchise index http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/ and every year during Cowher's tenure you see specific needs being addressed by outside veteran talent. Now outside of kickers, or an ermergency injury replacement nothing but lifetime Steelers

[Mojouw]

When I introduced this topic I really had no intent other than try to provoke some interesting Steelers related discussion. In other words I had no agenda and wasn't trying to promote either over the other. The fact that that after 6 years they're only seperated by one win, playoffs and regular season inclusive I found to be quite remarkable. And I thought it was something worth introducing to the board.

But as you delve into a topic, and try to bring some relevant fact to the table, occasionally you strike upon something interesting. And in this case what jumps out at me that I hadn't really thought of before was the difference in the front office's approach to bringing in outside talent then as opposed to now.

In those first 6 seasons Cowher got solid production from off roster NFL veterans such as Kevin Greene, Nolan Harrison, Will Wolford, Eric Peagram, John L. Williams, Tim Lester, Ray Seals, Duval Love, Donald Evans etc...

What veterans of any consequence have been brought in since Tomlin came to the job? I was all ready to at least chalk in Ryan Clark for a Tomlin era free agent score, but then I checked, and he came aboard in 2006. Cowher's last season.

I'm not blaming Tomlin for change in organizational philosophy, I put it on those above him. Art III and Colbert. The new attitude towards bringing in outside talent to address specific and critical needs borders on arrogance. And if you want to know why there's so much complancey on the roster, perhaps the thought that you don't have to worry about outside talent coming in and replacing you if you underperform, maybe that's a good starting point? It's a lot easier to fend of the occasional rookie challenge than one from a guy with actual NFL chops.

During almost all of Tomlin's tenure the Steelers have been maxed out against the cap in order to keep what they felt was a championship team together. No one has been brought in from the outside because it was felt that the existing, at least at the starting level, talent was superior to street free agents. It seems the Steelers during the Tomlin and Colbert years have been more focused on retaining existing high dollar talent and then supplementing it with low dollar draft picks. Don't forget that for parts of Cowher's tenure, the league was still figuring out the whole salary cap thing and the Steelers scooped up a decent number of guys who were simply discarded by their previous teams. That rarely happens now.

[zulater]

During almost all of Tomlin's tenure the Steelers have been maxed out against the cap in order to keep what they felt was a championship team together. No one has been brought in from the outside because it was felt that the existing, at least at the starting level, talent was superior to street free agents. It seems the Steelers during the Tomlin and Colbert years have been more focused on retaining existing high dollar talent and then supplementing it with low dollar draft picks. Don't forget that for parts of Cowher's tenure, the league was still figuring out the whole salary cap thing and the Steelers scooped up a decent number of guys who were simply discarded by their previous teams. That rarely happens now.

I think it may be time for a change in SOP then. Because clearly the talent level on the team is in a state of decline.

[GBMelBlount]

During almost all of Tomlin's tenure the Steelers have been maxed out against the cap in order to keep what they felt was a championship team together. No one has been brought in from the outside because it was felt that the existing, at least at the starting level, talent was superior to street free agents. It seems the Steelers during the Tomlin and Colbert years have been more focused on retaining existing high dollar talent and then supplementing it with low dollar draft picks. Don't forget that for parts of Cowher's tenure, the league was still figuring out the whole salary cap thing and the Steelers scooped up a decent number of guys who were simply discarded by their previous teams. That rarely happens now.

That is what I was thinking as well....that it could moreso be a result of cap issues.

[GodfatherofSoul]

The division was a lot weaker when Cowher started out. Tomlin's had a legitimate rivalry in the Ravens, and the Bengals are no joke either. Even the Browns can play pretty tough in stretches.

[zulater]

The division was a lot weaker when Cowher started out. Tomlin's had a legitimate rivalry in the Ravens, and the Bengals are no joke either. Even the Browns can play pretty tough in stretches.

I disagree. In Cowher's first 6 years the AFC Central placed 2 teams in the playoffs 5 times.

While there wasn't one team as consistently strong as the Ravens are in Tomlin's era, there were plenty of strong teams in that division over that span.

[BlastFurnace]

Gotta admit, I loved the early years of "Cowher Power". He was a breath of fresh air to the team and the fanbase.

This will be Tomlin's first real challenge. Bill had his when he lost some of his players from 1998 through 2000 and came through will some really good football from 2001 through 2005. I'm not expecting much in 2013. I think the team is in a transition period that may take a couple of years to get through.

- - - Updated - - -


The division was a lot weaker when Cowher started out. Tomlin's had a legitimate rivalry in the Ravens, and the Bengals are no joke either. Even the Browns can play pretty tough in stretches.

The Oilers were pretty formidable back then. IMO, they were just as good as the current Ravens and Moon and those receivers gave the Steelers fits.

[Godfather]

But you know that's what it's going to turn into. Because it's pretty obvious that Tomlin has not been embraced by a large section of the fanbase despite his success...which they either downplay or refuse to give him credit for.

Mike Tomlin = Les Miles.

Very successful coach, but has haters who are gonna hate no matter what he does. Calm sideline demeanor, more aggressive than average with playcalling and risk taking, sometimes does things that make you scratch your head.

[tube517]

When I introduced this topic I really had no intent other than try to provoke some interesting Steelers related discussion. In other words I had no agenda and wasn't trying to promote either over the other. The fact that that after 6 years they're only seperated by one win, playoffs and regular season inclusive I found to be quite remarkable. And I thought it was something worth introducing to the board.

But as you delve into a topic, and try to bring some relevant fact to the table, occasionally you strike upon something interesting. And in this case what jumps out at me that I hadn't really thought of before was the difference in the front office's approach to bringing in outside talent then as opposed to now.

In those first 6 seasons Cowher got solid production from off roster NFL veterans such as Kevin Greene, Nolan Harrison, Will Wolford, Eric Peagram, John L. Williams, Tim Lester, Ray Seals, Duval Love, Donald Evans etc...

What veterans of any consequence have been brought in since Tomlin came to the job? I was all ready to at least chalk in Ryan Clark for a Tomlin era free agent score, but then I checked, and he came aboard in 2006. Cowher's last season.

I'm not blaming Tomlin for change in organizational philosophy, I put it on those above him. Art III and Colbert. The new attitude towards bringing in outside talent to address specific and critical needs borders on arrogance. And if you want to know why there's so much complancey on the roster, perhaps the thought that you don't have to worry about outside talent coming in and replacing you if you underperform, maybe that's a good starting point? It's a lot easier to fend of the occasional rookie challenge than one from a guy with actual NFL chops.

I think this started around the 2004-05 season. Art III said something about the Steelers have enough talent to win and that they need to win soon. And I think it was mentioned that they were going to start focusing on signing/keeping their free agents more than before or at least making an effort. I cannot find the link but it was an article in the Tribune or Post Gazette. I'll try to find it.

[Dwinsgames]

But you know that's what it's going to turn into. Because it's pretty obvious that Tomlin has not been embraced by a large section of the fanbase despite his success...which they either downplay or refuse to give him credit for.


I do not buy that at all sorry ...

I think the more proper way to put it is Tomlin gets to much credit for a team he took over that was 1 year removed from the SB and loaded with talent ....

he has his critics for doing less with more than most NFL head coaches , where as some get fired for doing more with less .....

I am not a big Tomlin critic or apologist ... but a case could easily be made that Tomlin has guided one of the more talented rosters to subpar season performances on more than one occasion and has single handedly
lost a few of those games for us along the way with poor clock management , poor play calling , poor decision making ....

I am a realist , Cowher took over a less talented roster and did more with less , while Tomlins record has been similar he had also inherited a more talented team on a player to player comparison if you look at the rosters of both coaches when they arrived there is no debating that fact ....

Tomlin is not the worst coach in the league but he is a long ways from the best coach in the league ... he is young still and truth be told I do not think he was quite ready for the job when he got it , but had early success in spite of it because of the talented roster and veteran leadership that came with it , he is a smart man I am sure he learned a lot along the way , he will continue to learn , he will continue to grow as a HC and he will get better ...... that being said there are coaches I would rather have , but a whole lot more I am glad we do not have

[stillers4me]

Rob Ryan was unemployed for 45,545 minutes. That's 45,540 minutes longer than Tomlin would be unemployed if the Steelers fired him.

[zulater]

I do not buy that at all sorry ...

I think the more proper way to put it is Tomlin gets to much credit for a team he took over that was 1 year removed from the SB and loaded with talent ....

he has his critics for doing less with more than most NFL head coaches , where as some get fired for doing more with less .....

I am not a big Tomlin critic or apologist ... but a case could easily be made that Tomlin has guided one of the more talented rosters to subpar season performances on more than one occasion and has single handedly
lost a few of those games for us along the way with poor clock management , poor play calling , poor decision making ....

I am a realist , Cowher took over a less talented roster and did more with less , while Tomlins record has been similar he had also inherited a more talented team on a player to player comparison if you look at the rosters of both coaches when they arrived there is no debating that fact ....

Tomlin is not the worst coach in the league but he is a long ways from the best coach in the league ... he is young still and truth be told I do not think he was quite ready for the job when he got it , but had early success in spite of it because of the talented roster and veteran leadership that came with it , he is a smart man I am sure he learned a lot along the way , he will continue to learn , he will continue to grow as a HC and he will get better ...... that being said there are coaches I would rather have , but a whole lot more I am glad we do not have

Cowher inherited just as much overall talent as Tomlin. The one big difference being quarterback, where Tomlin of course inherited a franchise quality quarterback just coming into his prime.

Of course Cowher was just as lucky to get Ben to begin with. No way in hell Ben should have fallen to 11, and more to the point Cowher didn't want to draft Ben, but was made to by Dan Rooney who still had regrets about passing on Dan Marino.

Cowher's pick would have been Arkansas OT Shawn Andrews. Yeah that would have really gotten us far. :doh:

Regardless, they both ended up with the players they did, and both had a good amount of success with what they were given. And also helped add to the sum total with their own players as they went on.

Tomlin is coming off a bad year. No one will argue that. But prior that that his teams had posted consecutive 12-4 seasons. He's a good coach, who had a bad year.

[zulater]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/1992_roster.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2007_roster.htm

Here's both coaches original Steeler team. Make your case on how Tomlin inherited more?

[Dwinsgames]

why is it that so many fans link players to the head coaches anyways ?

Bad pick blame the coach , great pick credit the coach ....

The GM and his scouting department have the most influence on who is and who is not selected they hold the vast majority of the information gathered by the organization as a whole ... then ownership , the GM and the Coaching staff all make their case for whom they like based on that information and why and a consensus is formed from that on how their board is formulated and whom they eventually select .....

as a side note .. No Way in hell was Cowhers team he inherited as talented as Tomlins and to even suggest such a thing is crazy talk ...

[st33lersguy]

The division was a lot weaker when Cowher started out. Tomlin's had a legitimate rivalry in the Ravens, and the Bengals are no joke either. Even the Browns can play pretty tough in stretches.

I wouldn't say that, in Cowher's first 6 years, another AFC Central team won ten games or more 4 times and of his 5 division titles in that span, he only won the division by multiple games once.

[Dwinsgames]

Cowher inherited a team lacking a quality QB , WR corps , TE , ( all of which Tomlin inherited quality components at each spot )

Cowher also inherited a team that failed to win the division in 7 consecutive seasons and won the division 5 of the next 6 seasons ....

Tomlin inherited a roster full of playoff and Superbowl exp ..

comparing the two rosters and the success of them is like comparing apples to oranges ...it is not even close .... sure we loved David Little but he is nothing when compared with Timmons and player by player with exception to Carey Davis and Sean Mahan you can to a man say that about almost every guy on offence Tomlins inherited team was so much better .... I think the Cowher era defenses where very good and he left a super solid Def when he walked away and Tomlin inherited it

[zulater]

why is it that so many fans link players to the head coaches anyways ?

Bad pick blame the coach , great pick credit the coach ....

The GM and his scouting department have the most influence on who is and who is not selected they hold the vast majority of the information gathered by the organization as a whole ... then ownership , the GM and the Coaching staff all make their case for whom they like based on that information and why and a consensus is formed from that on how their board is formulated and whom they eventually select .....

as a side note .. No Way in hell was Cowhers team he inherited as talented as Tomlins and to even suggest such a thing is crazy talk ...

Two Hall of Famers, Dirt Dawson, and Rod Woodson, perenial All Pro's in Gregg Lloyd and Carnell Lake. An exceptional left tackle in John Jackson, Barry Foster who set the single season rushing record for the team in Cowher's first year that still stands. Eric Greene, Hardy Nickerson, Gary Anderson. And O'Donnell wasn't a terrible quarterback either. The cupboard was far from bare.

Noll's message had grown old, but the team he left behind had a lot of first rate talent on it. Cowher did a helluva job, no doubt, but he had a lot to work with as well.

[Dwinsgames]

I wouldn't say that, in Cowher's first 6 years, another AFC Central team won ten games or more 4 times and of his 5 division titles in that span, he only won the division by multiple games once.


People forget Warren Moon led Oilers where in the Division back then

- - - Updated - - -


I wouldn't say that, in Cowher's first 6 years, another AFC Central team won ten games or more 4 times and of his 5 division titles in that span, he only won the division by multiple games once.


People forget Warren Moon led Oilers where in the Division back then

[zulater]

Cowher inherited a team lacking a quality QB , WR corps , TE , ( all of which Tomlin inherited quality components at each spot )

O'Donnell was middle of the pack as far as qb's go. You could win with him, and he did. The WR's sucked, that first year, but quality help was soon on the way in the form of Yancey Thigpen. Eric Green was an All Pro tight end for Cowher, he came with the job.


Cowher also inherited a team that failed to win the division in 7 consecutive seasons and won the division 5 of the next 6 seasons ....

In my opinion that was more about Noll losing his edge than lack of talent. There were many good players on those teams.


Tomlin inherited a roster full of playoff and Superbowl exp ..

True, but he also inherited a team that was coming off an 8-8 season. Every year you see teams a couple years removed from a Super Bowl falling into the abyss. It's more than talent that wins in the NFL.


comparing the two rosters and the success of them is like comparing apples to oranges ...it is not even close .... sure we loved David Little but he is nothing when compared with Timmons

Timmons was drafted in Tomlins time.
and player by player with exception to Carey Davis and Sean Mahan you can to a man say that about almost every guy on offence Tomlins inherited team was so much better ....

Bullshit. Cowher inherited a vastly superior offensive line and running backs. It's not even close!


I think the Cowher era defenses where very good and he left a super solid Def when he walked away and Tomlin inherited it


He also inherited James Harrison, a player Cowher didn't see as a starter, not even good enough to displace Clark Haggans.

Don't get me wrong I liked Cowher a lot. And I'm not sure that he wasn't a better coach than Tomlin through their first 6 seasons? But it's close, razor close. And Tomlin having a lousy 2012 doesn't change that.

[fansince'76]

So, what exactly was Tomlin supposed to do when he got the job? Completely blow up the roster and start over? As has already been mentioned, it takes more than just talent to win it all as a HC in the NFL. If that weren't the case, Norv Turner would have won a couple SBs in San Diego when he inherited Rivers when he still had an arm along with the best RB in the league at the time, the best TE in the league at the time and a defense that was also loaded when he took the reins of a team that put 10 players in the Pro Bowl the year before he got there.

If any schmuck could win championships with just talent in the NFL, the job wouldn't pay seven figures a year.

[GodfatherofSoul]

The Oilers were pretty formidable back then. IMO, they were just as good as the current Ravens and Moon and those receivers gave the Steelers fits.

The Oilers had 2 playoffs runs in those 6 years on only 2 winning seasons and never won a playoff game in that time. The Ravens have had 5 playoff runs in the past 6 years, 3 AFCCG appearances and a Super Bowl Win

[st33lersguy]

The Oilers had 2 playoffs runs in those 6 years on only 2 winning seasons and never won a playoff game in that time. The Ravens have had 5 playoff runs in the past 6 years, 3 AFCCG appearances and a Super Bowl Win

The Oilers failings in the mid 90s were made up for by the Browns great '94 team that lost 6 games including the playoffs (3 of those losses coming against the Steelers) and the fast rise of Tom Coughlin's Jaguars starting in '96.

[BlastFurnace]

The Oilers had 2 playoffs runs in those 6 years on only 2 winning seasons and never won a playoff game in that time. The Ravens have had 5 playoff runs in the past 6 years, 3 AFCCG appearances and a Super Bowl Win

I'm referring to the early years when Cowher took over...92 and 93.

[st33lersguy]

In terms of competition in the division, a slight edge has to be given to Tomlin. Tomlin has had to face a division rival who won at least 10 games every year (remember Cleveland winning 10 games in 07?) and John Harbaugh's Ravens have to be considered tougher than Cowher's best competition his first 6 years, but in terms of winning the division and making the playoffs, the edge has to go to Cowher who has Tomlin beat in both categories by 2

[jb500ex]

Rob Ryan was unemployed for 45,545 minutes. That's 45,540 minutes longer than Tomlin would be unemployed if the Steelers fired him.you can make a long list of coaches that were scooped right up after being fired because they were believed to be great coaches to only fail and disapear fro the league. look no further then kotite, seifert and edwards to start. tomlin isnt a good coach there is nothing that he does that shows that other then use cool words. he will end up being on tv long before he turns into a long time coach

[GBMelBlount]

Who did Cowher have at QB his first 6 years?

[zulater]

Who did Cowher have at QB his first 6 years?

O'Donnell for the first 4, then Tomzcak for 96, and Kordell for 97.

[86WARD]

you can make a long list of coaches that were scooped right up after being fired because they were believed to be great coaches to only fail and disapear fro the league. look no further then kotite, seifert and edwards to start. tomlin isnt a good coach there is nothing that he does that shows that other then use cool words. he will end up being on tv long before he turns into a long time coach

The fact that you insinuated that Kotite was a great coach nullifies any argument you have.

[X-Terminator]

The fact that you insinuated that Kotite was a great coach nullifies any argument you have.

Dude's just an ignorant troll and contributes nothing to this forum. Best to just ignore him.

[zulater]

Dude's just an ignorant troll and contributes nothing to this forum. Best to just ignore him.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/search.php?searchid=273420

Nailed it. Look at his posts in their entirety. Not once has he posted anything positive about a Steeler. Not even a neutral observation. Guy's a troll and should be dumped. .

[Dwinsgames]

you can make a long list of coaches that were scooped right up after being fired because they were believed to be great coaches to only fail and disapear fro the league. look no further then kotite, seifert and edwards to start. tomlin isnt a good coach there is nothing that he does that shows that other then use cool words. he will end up being on tv long before he turns into a long time coach

Rich Kotite ??? REALLY

Herm Edwards ??? REALLY

George Seifert... MAYBE , very good Def coach but it is well documented that he did not have the temperance as a Head Coach but he was successful for a short time anyways ...

The average Players career is said to be 4 years , coaching at the head level has a similar time frame do to today's win now ( not next year ) philosophy thus anything over 4 years must be considered a Long time coach in most NFL Cities ..... Tomlin has surpassed that so is already a " Long Term Coach " .....

so as I see it you have been debunked on your entire post , so unless you have more to add defining your comments your argument is sunk


** as a side note I clearly am not the president of the Mike Tomlin fan club , but to dismiss him as a nothing is pure stupidity and using guys like Rich Kotite and Herm Edwards to try and make your argument is even more ridiculous

[Count Steeler]

An interesting note, the Steelers have had 3 consecutive coaches that each won the Super Bowl. Pretty impressive as a franchise. I don't think any other franchise can say that.

[Dwinsgames]

The Oilers had 2 playoffs runs in those 6 years on only 2 winning seasons and never won a playoff game in that time. The Ravens have had 5 playoff runs in the past 6 years, 3 AFCCG appearances and a Super Bowl Win


that can be looked at both ways ......

[Dino 6 Rings]

Reading through the entire thread, good thread by the way, it does appear that the Front Office was a little more willing, and able, to pick up free agents to boost the roster under Cowher than they are under Tomlin.

Also, in the draft, the Steelers jumped up a couple times under Cowher, where I don't see them doing that very often with Tomlin. Which, after finishing 32 and 31st in a couple years, jumping up higher in the first round may have been better for the over all team. Instead of dropping a 2nd pick on a loser like Sweed, could it not have been packaged for something better higher up?

It just seems the F/O is content with keeping the roster as is, and building only in the draft with a few smaller names picked up via Free Agency but no splash players, like Kevin Greene or a trade like Jerome Bettis.

Bringing back ex players cheap is what they do now. El, McFadden, Foote, Burress.

[zulater]

Reading through the entire thread, good thread by the way, it does appear that the Front Office was a little more willing, and able, to pick up free agents to boost the roster under Cowher than they are under Tomlin.

Also, in the draft, the Steelers jumped up a couple times under Cowher, where I don't see them doing that very often with Tomlin. Which, after finishing 32 and 31st in a couple years, jumping up higher in the first round may have been better for the over all team. Instead of dropping a 2nd pick on a loser like Sweed, could it not have been packaged for something better higher up?

It just seems the F/O is content with keeping the roster as is, and building only in the draft with a few smaller names picked up via Free Agency but no splash players, like Kevin Greene or a trade like Jerome Bettis.

Bringing back ex players cheap is what they do now. El, McFadden, Foote, Burress.

Good post Dino.

And where the hell ya been?

[86WARD]

That's what winning Super Bowls sometimes does to a team...