Colbert: Steelers roster could undergo big changes

[polamalubeast]

Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert today promised changes to their roster after an 8-8 season, changes that could include saying goodbye to some veterans and even their high-profile free agents.

"When you're 12-4 and a playoff team, sometimes you get mesmerized by your success and you get a little reluctant to change," Colbert said, referring to the Steelers' record in both 2010 and 2011.

"If we don't change a roster that produced 8-8, we'd be silly to expect a better result."


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/colbert-steelers-roster-could-undergo-big-changes-670606/#ixzz2IAXnZeqS

[polamalubeast]

Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert was not in a cheery mood Wednesday. Maybe he was just being brutally honest.

Colbert had few positive things to say about a team that finished 8-8 and missed the playoffs for the first time since 2009. He was asked if the Steelers would consider using the franchise tag on an unrestricted free agent.

"Very doubtful," said Colbert, Steelers Digest reported. "When you're 8-8, don't think we have too many franchise players."

That wasn't the only criticism of the roster.

"If we don't change a roster that produced 8-8, we'd be silly to expect a better result," Colbert said, via the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

Think he was done? Nope. Colbert was asked about the second-worst Steelers rushing offense since 1978.

"Indicative of the talent we had at the position," he explained, via the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

ESPN reported the Steelers are expected to be $10.8 million over the 2013 salary cap. What's the plan to deal with that?

"Terminations, possible extensions and reconstructions," said Colbert, the Beaver County Times reported.

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said he wanted this to be an uncomfortable offseason in Dallas. Sound like they're already there in Pittsburgh.

Follow Kareem Copeland on Twitter @kareemcopeland



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000127264/article/pittsburgh-steelers-gm-kevin-colbert-goes-in-on-the-roster

[zulater]

As for using the franchise tag to prevent any of them from signing elsewhere, Colbert called it "very doubtful."
"I don't think we have too many franchise players," he added.
Colbert met with a handful of writers who regularly cover the Steelers today. Among some of his other points:
• On the running game, which produced its fewest yards in nine seasons: "Where we were in the running game last year was indicative of the talent at the position ... That group of players didn't produce the way we anticipated they would."


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/colbert-steelers-roster-could-undergo-big-changes-670606/#ixzz2IAZkznnj

In other words. Bye bye Wallace and Mendenhall!:wave:

[Shoes]

THIS IS GOOD!

[polamalubeast]

THIS IS GOOD!

agree

The Steelers have a lot of weakness right now....The Steelers need to make some major changes and this is the first time I say it

[polamalubeast]

As for using the franchise tag to prevent any of them from signing elsewhere, Colbert called it "very doubtful."
"I don't think we have too many franchise players," he added.
Colbert met with a handful of writers who regularly cover the Steelers today. Among some of his other points:
• On the running game, which produced its fewest yards in nine seasons: "Where we were in the running game last year was indicative of the talent at the position ... That group of players didn't produce the way we anticipated they would."


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/colbert-steelers-roster-could-undergo-big-changes-670606/#ixzz2IAZkznnj

In other words. Bye bye Wallace and Mendenhall!:wave:

This is 98% sure for Wallace and 100% sure for Mendendall

[NJarhead]

I'm kind of excited too but the majority of this roster is the same roster we went 12-4 with the previous season. So, some shake ups and upgrades are in deed in order, but we need to also stay healthy.

[polamalubeast]

I'm kind of excited too but the majority of this roster is the same roster we went 12-4 with the previous season. So, some shake ups and upgrades are in deed in order, but we need to also stay healthy.



The problem is that the team is in decline

The goal is to compete for the super bowl and right now, the Steelers are not close, but things can change very quickly(2003 vs 2004 season is a great exemple)

[Craic]

The problem is that the team is in decline

The goal is to compete for the super bowl and right now, the Steelers are not close, but things can change very quickly(2003 vs 2004 season is a great exemple)
They can, but the change from 03 to 04 was only at one position, and that was QB IIRC. So I don't think (and I'm not even sure you were saying this) that we need vast or big changes on the team to change our position in the standings.

[polamalubeast]

They can, but the change from 03 to 04 was only at one position, and that was QB IIRC. So I don't think (and I'm not even sure you were saying this) that we need vast or big changes on the team to change our position in the standings.


The running game was 31th in 2003 and 2nd in 2004...He also had the breakout year of Polamalu and the return of Dick Lebeau with the steelers

Ben Roethlisberger was a big factor in 2004, but it was not the only reason

[NCSteeler]

Anyone that hopes for BIG changes and thinks it is a good thing, is slightly too optimistic. This team needs some changes some tweaks some new blood at a few positions, but we are far from needing a house cleaning and BIG changes

[polamalubeast]

Anyone that hopes for BIG changes and thinks it is a good thing, is slightly too optimistic. This team needs some changes some tweaks some new blood at a few positions, but we are far from needing a house cleaning and BIG changes

agree

[Psycho Ward 86]

This is 98% sure for Wallace and 100% sure for Mendendall

think its the other way around. and also....


"We won't know what an individual player will cost until he gets out there," Colbert said. "Going into this thing, we're not married to anybody."


do we need to start a colbertism thread???

[Psycho Ward 86]

Anyone that hopes for BIG changes and thinks it is a good thing, is slightly too optimistic. This team needs some changes some tweaks some new blood at a few positions, but we are far from needing a house cleaning and BIG changes

if you think we only need tweeks, you need to look at the cap situation for the next 2 seasons

[NCSteeler]

I'm specifically refering to talent issues not money. They'll find a way to fund the salaries, hopefully not at eh expense of a devastating hit a few years from now.

[steel striker]

I really don't think big changes are in order and, like mentioned in above posts minor tweaks. Hopefully less injuries as well.

[polamalubeast]

The defense must create more turnovers and sacks...The offense must be much better, especially the running game....The ST must be much better too

The Steelers need to make some(or many) changes for the steelers can compete for the super bowl

[Craic]

The running game was 31th in 2003 and 2nd in 2004...He also had the breakout year of Polamalu and the return of Dick Lebeau with the steelers

Ben Roethlisberger was a big factor in 2004, but it was not the only reason

However, the only difference in the running game in 2004 was the addition of Duce Staley, who actually got injured about half way through if that (IIRC). So we went back to someone we always had. There was very little difference there. Troy P. was on the field in 2003 as well, so there's no change there. Even if he is on the field for a longer period of time, it's something that happened from within the organization, not a change of someone coming from the outside. Dick LeBeau is a coach, not a player. We're already changing coaches, so that's not really any different than what's already happening this year.

No, the changes from 03 to 04 were minimal in reality when it comes to the roster. What REALLY changed, was the focus of the team and the coach. I don't want us to return to the three yards and a cloud of dust way of playing football, but I would love for us to have the hard nosed mentality that we had then.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I'm specifically refering to talent issues not money.

those go hand in hand. Our cap situation is bad already. Next year? Even worse unless the salary cap increases by an astoundable amount. All we've done for the past couple of years to "fix" our cap situation is restructuring deals and backloading financial problems that will happen irregardless. A lot of the talent are older players that will be gone this season and next season because we have so much money tied up in players that are past their prime, but serviceable. The fact that we've needed to rely so heavily on veteran players (who have had their best years long ago) is going to end up forcing our hand at letting promising young players (with their best years ahead of them) go. Such as Wallace, Mendenhall, keenan lewis, and ramon foster.

yes, we all have our barbs with wallace and mendenhall but you get the idea. Hate to say it more than anything in the world, but all cheating jokes and random draft pick jokes aside, the patriots have been astoundingly effective at sustaining a flow of extra draft picks from/for veteran players while maintaining a clean salary cap.

[Craic]

think its the other way around. and also....


"We won't know what an individual player will cost until he gets out there," Colbert said. "Going into this thing, we're not married to anybody."


do we need to start a colbertism thread???

I wonder what his wife thinks about that! :chuckle:

[Psycho Ward 86]

I wonder what his wife thinks about that! :chuckle:

This just in: Mrs. Colbert files for divorce

[polamalubeast]

Colbert 'disappointed' in himself over 8-8

General Manager Kevin Colbert never has been one to tap-dance around issues during his annual postseason assessment of the team, and his session on Wednesday looking back at 2012 was no different.

Remember, it was Colbert who said, after the Steelers lost Super Bowl XLV to the Green Bay Packers, “We were good enough for second, but second isn’t good enough.”

When asked about the Steelers performance in 2012, Colbert said, “I don’t want to say we’re close. I know (Steelers President) Art (Rooney II) used the term ‘frustrated.’ I’m going with ‘disappointed.’ I’m disappointed in myself, that those 61 (players on the roster) were 8-8. Like I said, I’m at the head of the class.”


........


The realities don’t get any more palatable for the Steelers as they begin the process of dealing with the roster that produced 8-8. The first issue is compliance with the 2013 salary cap, which is expected to be right around $121 million and compliance must be completed by March 12. Colbert said the Steelers will get themselves under the cap through terminations, possibly some extensions, and maybe through the restructuring of some existing contracts.

“I don’t think it’s out of the norm,” said Colbert about the team’s cap issues. “We’ve got to go through the final paces of doing that, but it’s not out of the norm from a numbers standpoint. It’s just a matter of what we want to do. Again, if you terminate somebody, you better have a replacement. If you extend somebody, you better have confidence that the player will (play) it out. If you restructure somebody, you have to be confident that, going forward, you don’t hurt yourself cap-wise, because that’s just borrowing against your credit card.”

read more

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Colbert-disappointed-in-himself-over-8-8/d8669ac4-c1c8-4a5a-a5f9-0dac1a100319

- - - Updated - - -


if you think we only need tweeks, you need to look at the cap situation for the next 2 seasons



I think the cap will increase a lot for the 2014 season in the nfl....It will surely help the steelers

[Psycho Ward 86]

I think the cap will increase a lot for the 2014 season in the nfl....It will surely help the steelers

hopefully for our sake. but thats not in our control. omar khan played a game of chance when he restructured all of these deals over and over again. the premise of his "mastery" of the salary cap is based a lot on hoping that the salary cap continues to go up faster than we can burn through it. Thats a dangerous game to play

[GodfatherofSoul]

This just in: Mrs. Colbert files for divorce

More like: "Colbert cuts wife, cites lack of performance at her assigned position"

[43Hitman]

Can we merge these threads? We have two threads with the exact same story about Colbert shaking up the roster. Not to be a dick or anything, just sayin'.

[ALLD]

They tell it like it is. I would prefer that over being inflated or flat out being lied to.

[GBMelBlount]

On the running game, which produced its fewest yards in nine seasons: "Where we were in the running game last year was indicative of the talent at the position ... That group of players didn't produce the way we anticipated they would."

So.....the the same running backs that in 2011 had the highest yards per carry average (4.4) of any Steelers team in OVER A DECADE are now talentless?

Common sense says there is a little more to it than that. :scratchchin:

[polamalubeast]

So.....the the same running backs that in 2011 had the highest yards per carry average (4.4) of any Steelers team in OVER A DECADE are now talentless?

Common sense says there is a little more to it than that. :scratchchin:


The Steelers running back is one of the least talented in the NFL(Dwyer,7th round,Redman,UDFA and awful year for Mendenhall)This is a big weakness


I would like that the steelers be similar to a team like the 49ers(offense,defense and ST)

[Count Steeler]

Something has gone wrong in Steelers land. Bizarre season, weird moves on the coaching staff, lack of effort from most of the players at various points of the season, injuries up the wazzo.


Rooney, Tomlin, and Colbert have their work cut out for them. As of now, the window is closed.

[SteelerEmpire]

Well, he should be. He helped draft / hire every single player on this team. Like he said he's the "head of the class" and therefore just as responsible for these players "under performing" as the players themselves !

---------------

...When asked about the Steelers performance in 2012, Colbert said, “I don’t want to say we’re close. I know (Steelers President) Art (Rooney II) used the term ‘frustrated.’ I’m going with ‘disappointed.’ I’m disappointed in myself, that those 61 (players on the roster) were 8-8. Like I said, I’m at the head of the class.”...

LINK: http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Colbert-disappointed-in-himself-over-8-8/d8669ac4-c1c8-4a5a-a5f9-0dac1a100319

[GBMelBlount]

The Steelers running back is one of the least talented in the NFL(Dwyer,7th round,Redman,UDFA and awful year for Mendenhall)This is a big weakness



The offensive line was the problem.

There was nowhere to run.

[Count Steeler]

The offensive line was the problem.

There was nowhere to run.

Especially just trying to run up the gut. Virtually no outside running threat.

[polamalubeast]

The offensive line was the problem.

There was nowhere to run.

This is a problem, but he has no game changer in the RB

The Steelers have one of the worst groups of RB in the nfl right now...I am glad that Colbert thinks the same thing

[Craic]

Especially just trying to run up the gut. Virtually no outside running threat.

I agree. When Adams was in, we did a decent job of sealing off the corner between him and the TE - but it seemed that most of the runs that went that way were bounced outside, not planned outside runs.

I think the next question is, do we even have a RB that can hit the outside runs?

[steeldawg]

So.....the the same running backs that in 2011 had the highest yards per carry average (4.4) of any Steelers team in OVER A DECADE are now talentless?

Common sense says there is a little more to it than that. :scratchchin:

I think he had to be directing that comment towards Dwyer, why would he say the running game suffered because of mendenhall not being talented, he hardly got the ball?

[polamalubeast]

I agree. When Adams was in, we did a decent job of sealing off the corner between him and the TE - but it seemed that most of the runs that went that way were bounced outside, not planned outside runs.

I think the next question is, do we even have a RB that can hit the outside runs?


No and this is a big problem for the steelers

[Count Steeler]

I agree. When Adams was in, we did a decent job of sealing off the corner between him and the TE - but it seemed that most of the runs that went that way were bounced outside, not planned outside runs.

I think the next question is, do we even have a RB that can hit the outside runs?

Love him or hate him, Mendy is the best one we have for outside running. Unfortunately, he may no longer be on our roster next year.

I don't think we ever ran Batch (Baron) to the outside, always between the tackles. I think we tried to get Rainey out a couple of times, but not very much at all.

Having said all that though, when we were on our 4 game winning streak, all the backs that played, played well. The reason? An O Line that had the same guys for 4 games straight. I hope just the change of Kugler, changes our fortunes on the O Line.

[polamalubeast]

Love him or hate him, Mendy is the best one we have for outside running. Unfortunately, he may no longer be on our roster next year.

I don't think we ever ran Batch (Baron) to the outside, always between the tackles. I think we tried to get Rainey out a couple of times, but not very much at all.

Having said all that though, when we were on our 4 game winning streak, all the backs that played, played well. The reason? An O Line that had the same guys for 4 games straight. I hope just the change of Kugler, changes our fortunes on the O Line.



I saw one stats that the running game was very good with Mike Adams in the lineup

But it was only 3 games and the steelers need a new RB who can make a lot of big play

[Steeltreal]

Trade Woodley! Switch the 3-4 !

[Count Steeler]

Trade whoever we can. Trade our 1st pick and get multiple later round picks. I wouldn't use our 1st on Te'o anymore.

[polamalubeast]

Trade whoever we can. Trade our 1st pick and get multiple later round picks. I wouldn't use our 1st on Te'o anymore.

Or trade UP for a game changer(as in 2003 with the trade of Polamalu)

[Dwinsgames]

Trade whoever we can. Trade our 1st pick and get multiple later round picks. I wouldn't use our 1st on Te'o anymore.


I would love a scenario that has us trading down about 4 spots , then doing it again ...... then trading clear out of the round ...

QBs are a high commodity and a few teams are in need but are selecting to high in the first round to pull the trigger ( teams like the Bills and the Jags as examples ) if we could trade down a few times and pick up extra 3rd round picks ... then trade out of the first for a high second and perhaps next years first .. that would be the berries ... however we are not known to do much moving in the draft but dire circumstances require dire actions .. we need as many quality picks as we can get based on cap situation and number of guys under contract in 2013

[SteelerFanInStl]

Or trade UP for a game changer(as in 2003 with the trade of Polamalu)

I really don't think that there's anyone worth trading up for in this draft outside of Jarvis Jones who will be gone very early.

I'd rather trade down.

[86WARD]

Good. There's about 15-20 players on this roster that could go...lol.

[Psycho Ward 86]

trading up and down with some of these guys could do wonders for us. works great for the patriots. excuse me while i throw up after saying that

[Shoes]

trading up and down with some of these guys could do wonders for us. works great for the patriots. excuse me while i throw up after saying that

:chuckle:

[tube517]

However, the only difference in the running game in 2004 was the addition of Duce Staley, who actually got injured about half way through if that (IIRC). So we went back to someone we always had. There was very little difference there. Troy P. was on the field in 2003 as well, so there's no change there. Even if he is on the field for a longer period of time, it's something that happened from within the organization, not a change of someone coming from the outside. Dick LeBeau is a coach, not a player. We're already changing coaches, so that's not really any different than what's already happening this year.

No, the changes from 03 to 04 were minimal in reality when it comes to the roster. What REALLY changed, was the focus of the team and the coach. I don't want us to return to the three yards and a cloud of dust way of playing football, but I would love for us to have the hard nosed mentality that we had then.

The defense got younger and faster. That secondary in '03 was getting torched.
Troy P played very little in 2003. 2004 is when he first started. They overhauled the secondary and got rid of DeWayne Washington. Chad Scott started the season but got hurt and Willie Williams took over. DeShea Townsend took over D.Washington's spot. Troy started and also Chris Hope started. Brent Alexander and Mike Logan started at SS and FS in 2003, replaced by Polamalu and Hope in 2004.

Haggans and Foote took over in 2004 for Gildon and K.Bell.

Duce Staley (Sweatsuit Model) played in 10 games

[GodfatherofSoul]

After watching Arian Foster running, vision has a lot more to do with what makes a hole than I realized. He was finding seams that were open a split second. Might be that we really do need a premier RB...

[Craic]

Having said all that though, when we were on our 4 game winning streak, all the backs that played, played well. The reason? An O Line that had the same guys for 4 games straight. I hope just the change of Kugler, changes our fortunes on the O Line.

What? our guys staying healthy for more than a couple games? Now you're dreaming. :wink02:

In all seriousness, I think that's definitely part of the issue. I said it when Arians was the OC, and I'll keep saying it while Haley's the OC, the biggest problem with our run game is our O line - we cannot get consistency there due to injuries. I still don't know why.

Maybe it's the zone blocking and the weight of our guys? Who knows.

- - - Updated - - -


The defense got younger and faster. That secondary in '03 was getting torched.
Troy P played very little in 2003. 2004 is when he first started. They overhauled the secondary and got rid of DeWayne Washington. Chad Scott started the season but got hurt and Willie Williams took over. DeShea Townsend took over D.Washington's spot. Troy started and also Chris Hope started. Brent Alexander and Mike Logan started at SS and FS in 2003, replaced by Polamalu and Hope in 2004.

Haggans and Foote took over in 2004 for Gildon and K.Bell.

Duce Staley (Sweatsuit Model) played in 10 games


Shh.

You're screwing up my argument. :chuckle:

[steelreserve]

trading up and down with some of these guys could do wonders for us. works great for the patriots. excuse me while i throw up after saying that

I say trade Woodley and the 17th pick to the Cowboys for the 18th pick. That could be the most ass-saving move we ever made.

[X-Terminator]

Colbert was interviewed on WDVE this morning, and he pretty much reiterated what he said yesterday. There are going to be quite a few changes this offseason, but before they do anything, they have to get into compliance with the salary cap. We all have to play the waiting game now, to see who ends up trading in the black and gold.

[polamalubeast]

Questions & Answers: Kevin Colbert

http://www.timesonline.com/sports/steelers/questions-answers-kevin-colbert/article_ed5f9e42-60f1-11e2-ab89-001a4bcf6878.html

[GBMelBlount]

This is a problem, but he has no game changer in the RB

The Steelers have one of the worst groups of RB in the nfl right now...I am glad that Colbert thinks the same thing

You cannot afford to have a game changer at every position and trading up is risky.

[polamalubeast]

You cannot afford to have a game changer at every position and trading up is risky.

I do not talk to have a game changer at each position, but the Steelers need to have more(CB,RB or safety,now that Polamalu is old)

[Dwinsgames]

plenty of good rbs can be had in this draft without spending a first round pick to get one ... you can wait probably till round 3 and come away with a pretty solid RB in this draft as it stands right now ( that may change after the combine ) stock on some may go up based on what they do in shorts on a track and no pads ( never understood that concept but it is what it is )

[KeiselPower99]

i dont think we were as bad as 8-8 but not good enough to be 12-4 like last year. Its obvious that we havent hit on as many guys in the draft as other teams have. Like at our AFC North rivals and how they seem to be hitting on players like never before. The pressure is on. I really think we have a good starting point but some of the higher paid guys are gonna have to be sacrificed.

[steelerdude15]

Its going to be an interesting off-season, that is all I have to say.

[Steeldude]

This is a problem, but he has no game changer in the RB

The Steelers have one of the worst groups of RB in the nfl right now...I am glad that Colbert thinks the same thing

They could have had Adrian Peterson last year and still wouldn't have helped. The O-line can't open holes.

[GBMelBlount]

plenty of good rbs can be had in this draft without spending a first round pick to get one ... you can wait probably till round 3 and come away with a pretty solid RB in this draft as it stands right now ( that may change after the combine ) stock on some may go up based on what they do in shorts on a track and no pads ( never understood that concept but it is what it is )

Conversely, poor combines can create opportunities.

[polamalubeast]

They could have had Adrian Peterson last year and still wouldn't have helped. The O-line can't open holes.

c'mon...Peterson is the only RB who can dominate without a good o-line

[Dwinsgames]

IF what Colbert is saying is taken at face Value would it not be in the best long term interest of the team to try and Trade away the likes of Harrison , Ike and Troy while they would still hold some value to teams who feels they are on the cusp of a championship and get some draft picks in return for those players while they still hold some value instead of potentially releasing them and getting nothing in return ....

I would think each and every one of them still is worth a 3rd or 4th round selection to a team that feels they are very very close and needs just a piece or two ...

think about this for a moment if I could entertain you for a few moments ...

If we could manage a trade as suggested for those 3 players alone it saves us cap space we desperately need

Lets assume we gather a 3rd and a pair of 4ths via trades ....

If we traded down in the first round and picked up another 4th rounder ...

traded down again and out of the 1st round for a high second and next years first from a team like the Jags or the Bills ( whom both will be needing a QB and are picking way to high to do that with their original 1st round pick based on the talent pool at QB in this years draft )

we would then have

2 second round picks ( 1 of which would be very high )
2 third round picks
4 forth round picks
1 fifth rounder ( potentially a second for Gay in the form of a comp pick but could be a 6th or 7th who knows for sure at this point )
1 sixth
1 seventh
* Gay comp pick

with the abundance of 4th rounders you could potentially trade a pair of them to move back up into the middle of the third round again if you wanted to or maybe a 3rd and 4th to get back into the second or simply stand pat with a dozen picks over all at that point ( when we only have 30 something under contract those picks could be huge ) and this draft is loaded with talent deep into the 4th round IMO ...

not that I expect it to happen but it sure is fun to consider what you may be able to do with a draft with so many picks in the crucial rounds to build / rebuild a roster in a draft this strong in the middle rounds

[Psycho Ward 86]

IF what Colbert is saying is taken at face Value would it not be in the best long term interest of the team to try and Trade away the likes of Harrison , Ike and Troy while they would still hold some value to teams who feels they are on the cusp of a championship and get some draft picks in return for those players while they still hold some value instead of potentially releasing them and getting nothing in return ....

I would think each and every one of them still is worth a 3rd or 4th round selection to a team that feels they are very very close and needs just a piece or two ...

think about this for a moment if I could entertain you for a few moments ...

If we could manage a trade as suggested for those 3 players alone it saves us cap space we desperately need

Lets assume we gather a 3rd and a pair of 4ths via trades ....

If we traded down in the first round and picked up another 4th rounder ...

traded down again and out of the 1st round for a high second and next years first from a team like the Jags or the Bills ( whom both will be needing a QB and are picking way to high to do that with their original 1st round pick based on the talent pool at QB in this years draft )

we would then have

2 second round picks ( 1 of which would be very high )
2 third round picks
4 forth round picks
1 fifth rounder ( potentially a second for Gay in the form of a comp pick but could be a 6th or 7th who knows for sure at this point )
1 sixth
1 seventh
* Gay comp pick

with the abundance of 4th rounders you could potentially trade a pair of them to move back up into the middle of the third round again if you wanted to or maybe a 3rd and 4th to get back into the second or simply stand pat with a dozen picks over all at that point ( when we only have 30 something under contract those picks could be huge ) and this draft is loaded with talent deep into the 4th round IMO ...

not that I expect it to happen but it sure is fun to consider what you may be able to do with a draft with so many picks in the crucial rounds to build / rebuild a roster in a draft this strong in the middle rounds

sounds good to me. not sure who we want to keep and who we want to trade but with our cap situation and the fact that a lot of it is because of veteran players that are almost tapped out, someone(s) has to be traded. Plus this draft class is deep down into the middle rounds so there couldnt be a better time to do it

[steelreserve]

Honestly, we could trade down in the first and get an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick, or at least improve our other picks ... but I don't see any of these scenarios happening where we leave the first round entirely and end up with like 12 picks. We don't have room for that many, although maybe a couple more than in the past.

Plus, when we have a first-round pick that's not in the high 20s or the 30s, it's a rare chance to try and draft one of the difficult positions like DB or NT without sacrificing anything. I would also never be surprised to see them take a linebacker with a first-round pick basically ever.

[polamalubeast]

Honestly, we could trade down in the first and get an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick, or at least improve our other picks ... but I don't see any of these scenarios happening where we leave the first round entirely and end up with like 12 picks. We don't have room for that many, although maybe a couple more than in the past.

Plus, when we have a first-round pick that's not in the high 20s or the 30s, it's a rare chance to try and draft one of the difficult positions like DB or NT without sacrificing anything. I would also never be surprised to see them take a linebacker with a first-round pick basically ever.

as I said in another topic, I'm not sure the trade down is a good idea


The browns have often trade down since several years(with the jets in 2009...bad trade for both team....and the falcons in 2011...great trade for Atlanta) and they are still bad

quantity is important,but quality >>> quantity

[Steeldude]

c'mon...Peterson is the only RB who can dominate without a good o-line

It wouldn't have made much of a difference. Minnesota's O-line at least opened holes. The Steelers' O-line opens holes for defenders.

[polamalubeast]

It wouldn't have made much of a difference. Minnesota's O-line at least opened holes. The Steelers' O-line opens holes for defenders.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiQh1ghd-dA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLLJQjn90k4

[Dwinsgames]

Honestly, we could trade down in the first and get an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick, or at least improve our other picks ... but I don't see any of these scenarios happening where we leave the first round entirely and end up with like 12 picks. We don't have room for that many, although maybe a couple more than in the past.

Plus, when we have a first-round pick that's not in the high 20s or the 30s, it's a rare chance to try and draft one of the difficult positions like DB or NT without sacrificing anything. I would also never be surprised to see them take a linebacker with a first-round pick basically ever.


sorry that is wrong , not that we will do it ... ( doubtful I agree ) but to say we won't do it because we do not have the room is way off base .... we have PLENTY of room ... we had 36 guys under contract for 2013 prior to Rainey release , taking us down to 35 , if you trade 3 we sit at 32 guys under contract for 2013 21 guys short of a full roster and in cap hell ... the cheapest way to fill those spots is via the draft and players on their first NFL contracts .... this method I spoke of earlier would solve 3 issues ...

1) help fill the roster that lacks guys under contract for 2013

2) reduces the cap number of the team in the process

3) reduces the age of a aging roster


again I highly doubt they do it , it is not their normal MO , however that does not mean it would not be the right thing to do


** if you reread the original post I suggested moving down a few spots in the first and pick up another 4th rounder then moving out of the round into the top of the second for a 2nd rounder this year and a first rounder in 2014

[Psycho Ward 86]

the patriots trade down all the time and theyre doing extremely well drafting AND keeping their salary cap in check. Not many teams can say that.


(although off the top of my head i cant say all of those trades netted the best results. That would be something interesting to look at)

[Dwinsgames]

the patriots trade down all the time and theyre doing extremely well drafting AND keeping their salary cap in check. Not many teams can say that.


(although off the top of my head i cant say all of those trades netted the best results. That would be something interesting to look at)


the whole draft has crap shoot implications though , considering we see 1st overall picks stink it up too .... Jamarcus Russel , Tim Couch per example

[steelreserve]

sorry that is wrong , not that we will do it ... ( doubtful I agree ) but to say we won't do it because we do not have the room is way off base .... we have PLENTY of room ... we had 36 guys under contract for 2013 prior to Rainey release , taking us down to 35 , if you trade 3 we sit at 32 guys under contract for 2013 21 guys short of a full roster and in cap hell ... the cheapest way to fill those spots is via the draft and players on their first NFL contracts .... this method I spoke of earlier would solve 3 issues ...

1) help fill the roster that lacks guys under contract for 2013

2) reduces the cap number of the team in the process

3) reduces the age of a aging roster


again I highly doubt they do it , it is not their normal MO , however that does not mean it would not be the right thing to do


** if you reread the original post I suggested moving down a few spots in the first and pick up another 4th rounder then moving out of the round into the top of the second for a 2nd rounder this year and a first rounder in 2014

They only have that many under contract, but I believe they have 7 RFAs, at least 5 of whom there's no doubt we'll keep (Baron Batch and Stevenson Slyvester being the maybes). Plus I'm pretty sure we'll find a way to keep at least one of Starks, Foster and Lewis, maybe two. And probably re-sign Legursky as the backup C. We've got more room than usual, but not as much as one would think.

And like you said, it's not their MO to grab a bunch of rookies to fill a lot of holes immediately. They tend to keep about the same number of picks they have with the understanding that they'll get about 4-5 new players, maybe a couple more go to the PS if nobody grabs them, and one will be injured. It depends heavily on drafting well, and unfortunately we've had a lot of misses and so-so's over the past few years.

[86WARD]

Could be getting rid of players you wouldn't expect to keep players you wouldn't expect...just saying.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Could be getting rid of players you wouldn't expect to keep players you wouldn't expect...just saying.

or to just clear space in general so that we can actually venture out to other team's free agents as well. Even we need players that are either game changers or significant role players from the free agent market once in a while like farrior, clark, and mewelde moore

[steelreserve]

Going back to the tons-of-draft-picks scenario, I wonder if a viable strategy would just be to get rid of Woodley and eat his entire dead-money shit sandwich this year, rely on the young players to bridge the gap, then have like $30M or $40M under the cap in the 2013 offseason as Harrison, Kiesel, Taylor and whoever else come off their huge cap hit contracts. We might struggle next season, but then again, who knows, we might not.

[Count Steeler]

Going back to the tons-of-draft-picks scenario, I wonder if a viable strategy would just be to get rid of Woodley and eat his entire dead-money shit sandwich this year, rely on the young players to bridge the gap, then have like $30M or $40M under the cap in the 2013 offseason as Harrison, Kiesel, Taylor and whoever else come off their huge cap hit contracts. We might struggle next season, but then again, who knows, we might not.

I'm all for biting the bullet this coming season. Not having room to maneuver is going to hamper this team much more in the long term. Ben might have 6 years left, so we should position ourselves to max out his potential to win.

[steelreserve]

Really Woodley's contract is the 800-pound weight around our neck. It's already murdering us now, and it's throwing our entire cap situation into uncertainty for the next like 4 years. I really don't know what the best way to deal with that is - because yeah, we could get rid of it all this year and set ourselves up much better for the future ... but on the other hand, the window for guys like Harrison, Taylor, Kiesel, Troy, etc., is 1 more year, maybe two. Like, it'll be great to have Harrison's $10M cap hit off the books and Troy's $10M cap hit off the books, but then we also don't have Harrison or Troy.

So it seems like our options if we eat the cap trouble now are to see if we can win this year while basically having the exact same team plus rookies and minus Wallace and Woodley ... or to see if we can win in a couple years with a mostly different team. Probably a combination of both. It does seem like standing our ground and stockpiling young players is the most likely course this year, then next year is the real overhaul because there will be about 4 guys and $45M who just can't play any longer. Hopefully we deal with the Woodley situation THIS year so it won't cost us two or three players we have to re-sign next year, like Pouncey, Sanders, guys like that. Or else Woodley gets off his ass and starts taking twice as many steroids as Canseco, since that's probably the only way he'll ever live up to that contract.

[Steeldude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiQh1ghd-dA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLLJQjn90k4

Yep, holes to run through. Let's see how well he does when getting hit during the handoff or two to three yards behind the scrimmage. I am not saying Peterson isn't the superior RB, but the Steelers' O-line is what needs to be addressed not wasting a pick on a RB early. They tried that with Mendenhall and it failed.

[NCSteeler]

I wouldn't mind making a move with woodley this season, his performance this season doesn't warrant the amount of money were paying him and his contract is just bad news. btw, Steven Jackson is looking for work

[Count Steeler]

Woodley and Colon this year, Harrison and Polamalu next year. Woodley has been a disappointment since he signed. Colon, love his tenacity, but he can't finish a year.

Harrison and Polamalu: damn Father time!

[Dwinsgames]

Woodley and Colon this year, Harrison and Polamalu next year. Woodley has been a disappointment since he signed. Colon, love his tenacity, but he can't finish a year.

Harrison and Polamalu: damn Father time!


no real cap relief comes from parting ways with Colon this year , may as well keep him as a backup , tough to get hurt on the bench ( but he would probably find a way )

[Count Steeler]

no real cap relief comes from parting ways with Colon this year , may as well keep him as a backup , tough to get hurt on the bench ( but he would probably find a way )

I know that the cap is going to kill us this year. What happens if we trade him? Chicago may bite, maybe even Steelers west.

[polamalubeast]

Yep, holes to run through. Let's see how well he does when getting hit during the handoff or two to three yards behind the scrimmage. I am not saying Peterson isn't the superior RB, but the Steelers' O-line is what needs to be addressed not wasting a pick on a RB early. They tried that with Mendenhall and it failed.

In first round...no...but why not in second or third round?!

[Dwinsgames]

I know that the cap is going to kill us this year. What happens if we trade him? Chicago may bite, maybe even Steelers west.


doubt we could find a suitor to take a trade for a guy who spent all or part of the last 3 seasons on IR and even if we could ( would be unreal if we could ) we would still be on the hook for the pro rated portion of his signing bonus ) I suppose you MIGHT get someone to offer you a conditional 7th round pick for him but IMO even that is doubtful considering his contract numbers and injury history ( if they would If I where Colbert I would not be able to contain myself )

His base salary in 2013 is 5.5 mil ... his signing bonus portion of the cap hit is 1.2 mil with 950k in other bonus's ( workout / roster etc ) total cap hit $7,650,000

if he where traded he would cost us around 4 mill ( the rest of his bonus money through the life of the contract ) but we would not owe him anything moving forward ...

as I understand it , it would cost us more to cut him than keep him ( I MIGHT be wrong on this if I am and someone has a better answer please correct me )

[SteelerFanInStl]

plenty of good rbs can be had in this draft without spending a first round pick to get one ... you can wait probably till round 3 and come away with a pretty solid RB in this draft as it stands right now ( that may change after the combine ) stock on some may go up based on what they do in shorts on a track and no pads ( never understood that concept but it is what it is )

Yes. Arian Foster and Albert Morris prove that you don't have to use an early draft pick to get a quality RB. I think that we can even wait until later than round 3.

[GBMelBlount]

Yes. Arian Foster and Albert Morris prove that you don't have to use an early draft pick to get a quality RB. I think that we can even wait until later than round 3.

In that case why not just go with UDFA's? :grin:

[Dwinsgames]

Yes. Arian Foster and Albert Morris prove that you don't have to use an early draft pick to get a quality RB. I think that we can even wait until later than round 3.

no doubt about it , just after round 3 it becomes a bigger crap shoot IMO , no saying you can not land a gem in the late rounds because clearly you can ....

Ballard too was a 5th rounder last year ...( taken after Rainey I might add )

Jacquizze Rodgers was a 5th rounder last year ...

Ahmed Bradshaw was a 7th rounder too ...

[GBMelBlount]

no doubt about it , just after round 3 it becomes a bigger crap shoot IMO ....


Agreed.

The whole draft is nothing more than a sophisticated crap shoot that gets trickier each round.

[Psycho Ward 86]

im gonna be really pissed if woodley doesnt have the best or 2nd best season of his life in 2013. Im curious to see just how successful the steelers have been in converting 4-3 defensive ends into 3-4 olb's. didnt go through my head earlier in his career, but now that were hearing that woodley has had reported problems with his weight this season, seems to me that is a big potential problem with trying to convert defensive ends into olb's: weight. didnt woodley come into the league in the high 250's or 260? That already right there is starting to look big, especially when you're just coming into the league and have a young body thats going to continue to grow.

slim down woodley. those python arms are meaningless when they come with cottage cheese thighs.

[steelreserve]

im gonna be really pissed if woodley doesnt have the best or 2nd best season of his life in 2013. Im curious to see just how successful the steelers have been in converting 4-3 defensive ends into 3-4 olb's. didnt go through my head earlier in his career, but now that were hearing that woodley has had reported problems with his weight this season, seems to me that is a big potential problem with trying to convert defensive ends into olb's: weight. didnt woodley come into the league in the high 250's or 260? That already right there is starting to look big, especially when you're just coming into the league and have a young body thats going to continue to grow.

slim down woodley. those python arms are meaningless when they come with cottage cheese thighs.

I know the whole 4-3 idea has been beaten to death, but:

- We have one inside LB who can play worth a shit
- We have one outside LB who can play worth a shit
- We have a lack of defensive linemen who can play worth a shit
- One of the outside LBs who can't play worth a shit used to be a DE, and is too heavy to be a good OLB.

See where that goes? Even some sort of hybrid thing would be worth experimenting with IMO, because I'm sick of getting no production out of that OLB spot and little production out of the DE spots.

[Dwinsgames]

By Jim Wexell

To come into cap compliance by March 12, the Steelers are going to have to cut some fan favorites. Jim Wexell breaks down the numbers provided by SCI capologist Ian Whetstone.

I apologize up front, because no one signed up here to read about football from an accountant’s point of view.

But it’s better than reading about Manti Te’o, isn’t it?

Ah, you’re getting my point.

So buck up and follow along, because every year at this time we need to take a look at the numbers behind the makeup of the Steelers’ roster. And now is that time.

First of all, give a heartfelt thanks to GM Kevin Colbert, who spoke to a select group of football writers this week and told them he was going to blow up the team.

Well, he didn’t say exactly that. He put it this way: “If we don’t change the roster that produced 8-8, we’d be silly to expect a better result if we have the same group of guys … We’re not married to any of these guys.”

To blow up or tune up, that is the question.

Of course, we can let the numbers be our guide, and right now, according to Ian Whetstone, the resident capologist at SteelCityInsider.net, the Steelers have 44 players under contract at a cost of approximately $133.2 million.

By March 12, the start of the league’s fiscal New Year, the Steelers must pare that total salary number to $121 million for the top 51 salaries.

To get to 51, let’s add exclusive rights free agents DeMarcus Van Dyke ($555,000) and Baron Batch ($480,000) and extend original-round tenders of $1.386 million to restricted free agents Jonathan Dwyer, Steve McLendon, Isaac Redman, Emmanuel Sanders and Stevenson Sylvester.

Yes, the Steelers could lose McLendon or Redman without draft-choice compensation, but they could also match any offer made to them.

That would bring the cap total to a little more than $141 million, so the Steelers would need to cut approximately $20 million by March 12 just to avoid penalty.

In the ensuing weeks and months, they would then need to clear enough room to sign their draft picks and any of their following free agents:

Will Allen, Charlie Batch, Plaxico Burress, Larry Foote, Ramon Foster, Casey Hampton, Brandon Johnson, David Johnson, Byron Leftwich, Doug Legursky, Keenan Lewis, Rashard Mendenhall, Ryan Mundy, Leonard Pope, Max Starks, Mike Wallace and Greg Warren.

Now, sorting through that long list of free agents is a column in itself (and I swear I’ll write that column if I hear the name Te’o one more time), but for now let’s stay focused on the numbers. Please.

Now, since the draft class will cost about $3 million, and they’ll want to put aside about $7 million to keep some free agents, it looks like Colbert, Mike Tomlin, Omar Khan and the Rooneys will need to pare about $30 million total to get ready for next season. And this is where the fun stops.

Here are the veterans who, if cut, would provide the most cap savings:

James Harrison ($5.1M), Troy Polamalu ($4.9M), Ben Roethlisberger ($4M), Heath Miller ($3.8M), Ryan Clark ($3.5M), Brett Keisel ($2.8M), Ike Taylor ($2.5M), Ziggy Hood ($2M), Willie Colon ($1.2M), Shaun Suisham ($1.1M) and Jerricho Cotchery ($1M). (They could pull one or two of the aforementioned $1.4 million RFA tenders as well.)

The total savings if all were cut would be approximately $32 million, or $2 million over our target.

And remember that the minimum wage of a potential replacement is $405,000, so multiply that by the 11 vets we just cut and now we’re still looking to find an additional $2.5 million to pare.

That would leave the Steelers with someone just as bad as Tim Tebow – only with less experience – as the starting at quarterback, so what’s the point?

There has to be a better way. And there is.

As Colbert said, the Steelers will cut players, but also extend and restructure contracts. Thankfully, Ian Whetstone’s numerical wizardry provides us with that insight as well.

According to Ian, a reasonable four-year contract extension (with a $35 million bonus) for Roethlisberger would provide about $3.5 million in relief. And full restructures of Timmons, Miller and Antonio Brown would provide another $10.7 million.

As for the cutting of veterans, it doesn’t appear as if they’ll be able to avoid cutting the 35-year-old Harrison, bringing the target total to $19.3 million.

Colon and Cotchery are two more painful cuts, and the total’s now at $21.5 million.

That gets the team into compliance by March 12, but every signing thereafter would require an equal and opposite reaction.

Some will call for the cutting of Polamalu, I’m sure, or possibly Clark, Keisel and/or Taylor.

That’s not my thinking, but then again it’s not my money. It’s just my column, and I probably should’ve used the space to write about Te’o. It would’ve been less depressing.

http://pit.scout.com/2/1259102.html

note I have been saying 35 guys under contract , he says 44 but is including the guys from the PS that I did not count because they have not been considered an active part of the 53 man roster thus felt they did not deserve inclusion ...

[Psycho Ward 86]

^wow were even worse off then i thought

[Dwinsgames]

^wow were even worse off then i thought


it is exactly as I though it was , this just confirms the thread I posted a long time ago about the cap " players at the end of the line in B&G " or something to that effect

[Count Steeler]

The FO rolled the dice and it came up 8-8. Looks like it is time to admit they failed at producing a winner and try again.

Yes injuries wreaked havoc, but even if we won the SB this year, the team would still have to be dismantled and rebuilt.

[Dwinsgames]

The FO rolled the dice and it came up 8-8. Looks like it is time to admit they failed at producing a winner and try again.

Yes injuries wreaked havoc, but even if we won the SB this year, the team would still have to be dismantled and rebuilt.

I just hope they at the very least explore trades of players before simply releasing them , cap savings would be equal in the trade as the release but you get something in return even if late round picks you can use to package for a better pick

[dislocatedday]

No mention of Woodley in that article, because I am guessing there is not much they can do there. I'm sure the team does not want to restructure or extend his contract and give him more money up front now as a bonus. He is in no way living up to his existing contract, not even close. I think Harrison is obviously going to get cut due to the cap, and I'm honestly not sure how the team avoids cutting Polamalu unless he takes a pay cut. I'd have no problem if they cut Ziggy Hood as well. I'd rather the team "bite the bullet" now and start moving forward than prolonging cap hell for the next few seasons.

[Bluecoat96]

I just had a thought. Do you think there's any way they would simply "tear up" Ben's contract and offer him a nice lucrative extension? His cap hit is something like $19 mil this year. Just one of my many rambling thoughts throughout the day.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Once the Ravens give Flacco that huge new contract they'll be in the same situation.

Quite frankly, I'd rather cut Troy at this point than James. I think he's more easily replaceable at his current talent level.