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SteelerEmpire
01-02-2013, 10:40 PM
Ben now scares the h _ _ _ out of me when he throws deep bombs...

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The Steelers are assured of going at least three years between playoff victories, yet they already know what they must do to win their next postseason game.

Getting Ben Roethlisberger back to performing late in the season like he did during their Super Bowl run in the 2010 season is a priority, especially while throwing the deep ball.

LINK: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3228681-74/roethlisberger-season-yds#axzz2Gssk4DMQ

Seven
01-02-2013, 10:52 PM
It‘s the one element of Roethlisberger‘s all-around game that has slipped the most statistically since the Steelers defeated the Jets in the 2010 season AFC Championship.


Statistically, yes - it has slipped. But that could be for a myriad of reasons. Just from what I saw live this season the arm stength is absolutely still there. This could just be a matter of accuracy. Considering the deep game is no longer a large part of the offense Ben and the receivers could simply be out of practice. Because I saw Ben overthrow Mike Wallace on a couple occassions this season (something that, according to Wallace, quarterbacks can't do) where Mike was on a go route. So the arm is definitely still there. Maybe this is something I should take a look at on coaches film before I comment further, but I'd be surprised if I see it any differently after that.

pepsyman1
01-02-2013, 10:54 PM
I think (and always have) that the only problem with Ben's deep ball is that he waits too long to decide to throw it. There have been many times that we've seen Wallace have to hold up and wait for the ball and it's isn't because he's so fast it's that Ben seems to wait until he sees the receiver fully clear before he throws it and at that point it's too late to get the ball out in front of the receiver. Ben does have a strong arm but he doesn't have Bradshaw's cannon...he needs to decide earlier and get it out there so Wallace or Brown can run under it.

Psycho Ward 86
01-02-2013, 11:31 PM
this is old news. and the deep ball is always going to be vital to this offense. its what keeps defenses honest with all the short passing we did at the first half of the season. if you think haley just wanted this to be a dink and dunk team you havent been watching the 2nd season. of course it is easy to point out how horrible we've been the 2nd half of the season, which is when he started to throw deeper down field, but thats also because injuries got even worse than ever and turnovers increased dramatically.

and i agree with pepsyman, ben seems to throw too often to where the receiver is instead of where he's going to be, which limits YAC and often results in him being errant in pulling the trigger on his deep balls. if he figures out how to do that he'll be in the same company as aaron rodgers, brady, and manning

Seven
01-02-2013, 11:56 PM
I think (and always have) that the only problem with Ben's deep ball is that he waits too long to decide to throw it. There have been many times that we've seen Wallace have to hold up and wait for the ball and it's isn't because he's so fast it's that Ben seems to wait until he sees the receiver fully clear before he throws it and at that point it's too late to get the ball out in front of the receiver. Ben does have a strong arm but he doesn't have Bradshaw's cannon...he needs to decide earlier and get it out there so Wallace or Brown can run under it.

Good call. From what I just watched I think this mostly took place on snaps where Ben felt pressure which may account for some of the delay. Because on most plays where Ben had a deep route as his first read this season he simply dropped back and let it fly without even going to the next receiver in the progression - that has a little good and a little bad to it. It seems like he wanted to take advantage of the plays where deep routes were called as there weren't nearly as many this season as he had been accustomed to under Arians or even Whisenhunt.

With a guy like Mike Wallace - whose value is mostly in streaks, posts and double moves - the offense really should have taken better advantage of the talent on the field. Just like he did in Kansas City, it seems like Coach Haley largely ignored the strengths of his personnel in favor of his system. That's not to say I don't see what he is trying to do, it just leaves players like Johnathan Baldwin and Mike Wallace with much more insignificant roles in an offense. This upcoming season should be much more fruitful for Haley. Brown and Sanders fit what he wants to do and Heath Miller up the seam is going to be deadly once the running game improves - which I do believe Haley can accomplish in time.

Hopefully we'll see Haley expand upon his deep passing attack. Although I have my doubts, I think a natural fit would be getting back to deep shots from play action calls. But at it's core, I think injuries and simply lack of real game practice is what has really hampered Ben's deep ball. And with the direction the offense is heading I'm not necessarily all that concerned about it.

Edman
01-03-2013, 02:31 AM
Deep Balls aren't going to happen. In fact, I'm quite tired of 80-yard sprint catches and then nothing else. The Steelers have lacked a good intermediate passing game for years. When the Steelers aren't chucking deep balls, they're throwing a crapload of screens.

What needs to be fixed is Ben's accuracy on intermediate throws. Those are the kinds of throws that stretch defenses.

zulater
01-03-2013, 05:23 AM
The last two games of the season Ben attempted two deep passes that I can remember. Against the Benglas right before the end of the half he hit Antonio Brown perfectly in stride on a 60 yard touchdown pass that was thrown 40 over yards past the line of scrimmage on a dime. Then last week he hit Antonio Brown downfield on a 43 yard pass that traveled the entire distance in the air ( no YAC) again dropped right on a dime. Now of course this play was called back due to a hold against Legursky. But Ben didn't know that when he threw the ball. So to me at least for the purpose of this discussion it's relevant.

- - - Updated - - -


Deep Balls aren't going to happen. In fact, I'm quite tired of 80-yard sprint catches and then nothing else. The Steelers have lacked a good intermediate passing game for years. When the Steelers aren't chucking deep balls, they're throwing a crapload of screens.

What needs to be fixed is Ben's accuracy on intermediate throws. Those are the kinds of throws that stretch defenses.

Ben's accuracy on those passes were just fine prior to his injury. There's not a qb out there who wont miss an opeen receiver on occasion, but Ben's ability to throw intermediate routes accurately has always been in the league's upper echelon and I imagine that will again be the case next season.

st33lersguy
01-03-2013, 09:17 AM
This past year, everytime I saw the deep ball, I was expecting an incmpletion

X-Terminator
01-03-2013, 09:50 AM
Deep Balls aren't going to happen. In fact, I'm quite tired of 80-yard sprint catches and then nothing else. The Steelers have lacked a good intermediate passing game for years. When the Steelers aren't chucking deep balls, they're throwing a crapload of screens.

What needs to be fixed is Ben's accuracy on intermediate throws. Those are the kinds of throws that stretch defenses.

Until this season, he was consistently averaging near or over 7 yards per attempt and averaged 12-14 yards per completion, which put him in the upper tier of QBs in the league. He has twice led the league in yards per completion. You don't have that high of a YPA or YPC if you aren't able to hit intermediate passes on a consistent basis.

zulater
01-03-2013, 09:57 AM
Until this season, he was consistently averaging near or over 7 yards per attempt and averaged 12-14 yards per completion, which put him in the upper tier of QBs in the league. He has twice led the league in yards per completion. You don't have that high of a YPA or YPC if you aren't able to hit intermediate passes on a consistent basis.

You also don't convert 3rd and longs at a 67% clip, as Ben was doing prior to his injury, if you can't throw intermediate routes with any accuracy.

NCSteeler
01-03-2013, 11:33 AM
Deep balls are nice, they break open games, BUT as has been the case for several years now, we are unable to consistently make 7-10 play drives that result in TDs. I was hoping a 2nd season of Haley offense and a healthy Ben might fix that.

43Hitman
01-03-2013, 11:45 AM
This past year, everytime I saw the deep ball, I was expecting an incmpletion

I'm not surprised. You seem to ALWAYS(caps for emphasis) expect the worst. :coffee:

fansince'76
01-03-2013, 12:20 PM
You also don't convert 3rd and longs at a 67% clip, as Ben was doing prior to his injury, if you can't throw intermediate routes with any accuracy.

You also don't wind up with a career completion rate of 63.1% without being able to connect on the intermediate routes. For comparison purposes, the bestest, most dreamiest, most wonderfulest QB ever's is 63.7%.

steel striker
01-03-2013, 02:34 PM
I don't care what some people say but, Ben is one of the best qb's in the league. The steelers would be in deep trouble if we did not have him at the helm.

X-Terminator
01-03-2013, 03:17 PM
Deep balls are nice, they break open games, BUT as has been the case for several years now, we are unable to consistently make 7-10 play drives that result in TDs. I was hoping a 2nd season of Haley offense and a healthy Ben might fix that.

Their inability to run the ball is a big reason for that.

X-Terminator
01-03-2013, 03:43 PM
In fact, here's how Ben's career numbers stack up against the best QBs in the league:

Yards per attempt (Y/A)

1. Aaron Rodgers 8.1
2. Ben Roethlisberger 7.9
3. Peyton Manning 7.6
4. Tom Brady 7.5
4. Drew Brees 7.5
6. Eli Manning 7.1

Adjusted yards per attempt (Total yards +20 * TD - 45 * INT) / (Pass Attempts)

1. Aaron Rodgers 8.6
2. Ben Roethlisberger 7.7​
2. Tom Brady 7.7
4. Peyton Manning 7.5
5. Drew Brees 7.3
6. Eli Manning 6.6

Yards per completion (Y/C)

1. Ben Roethlisberger 12.6
2. Aaron Rodgers 12.4
3. Eli Manning 12.1
4. Tom Brady 11.8
5. Peyton Manning 11.7
6. Drew Brees 11.4

Obviously, he gets blown away by P. Manning, Brady and Brees in terms of TD passes (he would be 5th on this list - even Eli has thrown more TD passes than Ben and is only ahead of Rodgers because he's been a starter longer). But these stats show that he is clearly on par with the best in the game when it comes to getting the ball downfield. All of these stats, BTW, can be found at pro-football-reference.com.

86WARD
01-03-2013, 03:47 PM
You also don't wind up with a career completion rate of 63.1% without being able to connect on the intermediate routes. For comparison purposes, the bestest, most dreamiest, most wonderfulest QB ever's is 63.7%.

Bradshaw's was that high?!?

86WARD
01-03-2013, 03:48 PM
In fact, here's how Ben's career numbers stack up against the best QBs in the league:

Yards per attempt (Y/A)

1. Aaron Rodgers 8.1
2. Ben Roethlisberger 7.9
3. Peyton Manning 7.6
4. Tom Brady 7.5
4. Drew Brees 7.5
6. Eli Manning 7.1

Adjusted yards per attempt (Total yards +20 * TD - 45 * INT) / (Pass Attempts)

1. Aaron Rodgers 8.6
2. Ben Roethlisberger 7.7​
2. Tom Brady 7.7
4. Peyton Manning 7.5
5. Drew Brees 7.3
6. Eli Manning 6.6

Yards per completion (Y/C)

1. Ben Roethlisberger 12.6
2. Aaron Rodgers 12.4
3. Eli Manning 12.1
4. Tom Brady 11.8
5. Peyton Manning 11.7
6. Drew Brees 11.4

Obviously, he gets blown away by P. Manning, Brady and Brees in terms of TD passes (he would be 5th on this list - even Eli has thrown more TD passes than Ben and is only ahead of Rodgers because he's been a starter longer). But these stats show that he is clearly on par with the best in the game when it comes to getting the ball downfield. All of these stats, BTW, can be found at pro-football-reference.com.

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The Bark
01-03-2013, 03:56 PM
Not much play-action this year and that's what predominately resulted in the long completions the past few years.

43Hitman
01-03-2013, 03:57 PM
In fact, here's how Ben's career numbers stack up against the best QBs in the league:

Yards per attempt (Y/A)

1. Aaron Rodgers 8.1
2. Ben Roethlisberger 7.9
3. Peyton Manning 7.6
4. Tom Brady 7.5
4. Drew Brees 7.5
6. Eli Manning 7.1

Adjusted yards per attempt (Total yards +20 * TD - 45 * INT) / (Pass Attempts)

1. Aaron Rodgers 8.6
2. Ben Roethlisberger 7.7​
2. Tom Brady 7.7
4. Peyton Manning 7.5
5. Drew Brees 7.3
6. Eli Manning 6.6

Yards per completion (Y/C)

1. Ben Roethlisberger 12.6
2. Aaron Rodgers 12.4
3. Eli Manning 12.1
4. Tom Brady 11.8
5. Peyton Manning 11.7
6. Drew Brees 11.4

Obviously, he gets blown away by P. Manning, Brady and Brees in terms of TD passes (he would be 5th on this list - even Eli has thrown more TD passes than Ben and is only ahead of Rodgers because he's been a starter longer). But these stats show that he is clearly on par with the best in the game when it comes to getting the ball downfield. All of these stats, BTW, can be found at pro-football-reference.com.

This is why I can't fathom the posters dishing out hate for Ben are doing it with a straight face. How can you ignore these numbers? When you factor in the offensive lines he's had to play behind compared to those other QB's on the list, its even more jaw dropping. Good post man, maybe this will open some eyes and shut some mouths.

X-Terminator
01-03-2013, 04:09 PM
This is why I can't fathom the posters dishing out hate for Ben are doing it with a straight face. How can you ignore these numbers? When you factor in the offensive lines he's had to play behind compared to those other QB's on the list, its even more jaw dropping. Good post man, maybe this will open some eyes and shut some mouths.

You'd think so, but it won't, because those fans don't take the time to look beyond their hatred and appreciate how good he really is. The fact that there is actually a large number of fans who want to see him traded, despite the numbers and SB wins/appearances, is even more jaw-dropping. It's why I always say Steelers fans are some of the most fickle fans in the league.

salamander
01-03-2013, 04:55 PM
You'd think so, but it won't, because those fans don't take the time to look beyond their hatred and appreciate how good he really is. The fact that there is actually a large number of fans who want to see him traded, despite the numbers and SB wins/appearances, is even more jaw-dropping. It's why I always say Steelers fans are some of the most fickle fans in the league.

Yepp - stick the majority of any QBs behind our o-line the last couple of years and see how shitty they would do. Ben is more than just pretty stats.

SteelGhost
01-03-2013, 10:24 PM
You'd think so, but it won't, because those fans don't take the time to look beyond their hatred and appreciate how good he really is. The fact that there is actually a large number of fans who want to see him traded, despite the numbers and SB wins/appearances, is even more jaw-dropping. It's why I always say Steelers fans are some of the most fickle fans in the league.

QFT