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steeldawg
12-27-2012, 04:55 PM
So can anyone explain why he didn't try to catch Batch's 3rd down pass to keep the drive alive vs. Cleveland?

So his complete failure to fight for a pass is a lack of focus? So why give big money to a player who can't stay focused?

we paid brown who showed his lack of focus many times on the field this season.

43Hitman
12-27-2012, 05:29 PM
we paid brown who showed his lack of focus many times on the field this season.

If that's the case and Wallace has already admitted to being unfocused, you want the Steelers to do that again? Not sure how much sense that makes.

zulater
12-27-2012, 05:32 PM
we paid brown who showed his lack of focus many times on the field this season.

First, the Steelers tried to pay Wallace considerably more than Brown. So there goes that point.\

Second Brown had the same number of catches and less than 100 less yards than Wallace did this season in 3 1/2 less games. Clearly he was the Steelers best receiver this season even if he did have some bad moments.

And he had less bad moments than Wallace too.

The only thing Wallace did better than Brown was caught more touchdowns. but give Brown 3 1/2 more games and that gap is probably 8-6 instead of 8-4. and when you consider how many more first downs Brown accounted for than Wallace that more than negates that one stat in wallace's favor.

Dawg your boy is leaving town. Get used to it. .

Count Steeler
12-27-2012, 06:15 PM
we paid brown who showed his lack of focus many times on the field this season.

Who played his ass off against the Bengals? Really, this is Brown's sophomore year, usually a down year for any NFLer. Can't wait to see him next year. Wallace is in his 4th, usually the time when stars start to separate from the pack.

BlastFurnace
12-27-2012, 06:31 PM
Who played his ass off against the Bengals? Really, this is Brown's sophomore year, usually a down year for any NFLer. Can't wait to see him next year. Wallace is in his 4th, usually the time when stars start to separate from the pack.

I agree with you about Brown. He is the real deal and the best WR on the team.

The guy I can't figure out is Sanders. What is he? A Starter or just a guy? I think he has the talent to be a #1, but he teases us.

zulater
12-27-2012, 06:35 PM
I agree with you about Brown. He is the real deal and the best WR on the team.

The guy I can't figure out is Sanders. What is he? A Starter or just a guy? I think he has the talent to be a #1, but he teases us.

I think the shoulder seperation derailed him this year.

If he could ever stay healthy for a full season I think we'd have something special.

Count Steeler
12-27-2012, 06:39 PM
I agree with you about Brown. He is the real deal and the best WR on the team.

The guy I can't figure out is Sanders. What is he? A Starter or just a guy? I think he has the talent to be a #1, but he teases us.

Don't discount the plan to keep his reps down so they don't have to pay him as much. It almost seems like he got less reps after Tomlin named him co-starter with Wallace. Sanders is due for a contract, so he does not have much of an argument right now. I think the Steelers try to grab him for 4-6mil for 3/4 years. Then we shall see his real numbers next year.

BlastFurnace
12-27-2012, 06:56 PM
Don't discount the plan to keep his reps down so they don't have to pay him as much. It almost seems like he got less reps after Tomlin named him co-starter with Wallace. Sanders is due for a contract, so he does not have much of an argument right now. I think the Steelers try to grab him for 4-6mil for 3/4 years. Then we shall see his real numbers next year.

I don't know if those $$$'s would get him. Depends on who else sees the potential. The Cowboys #3 receiver snagged a 5 year $32 Million dollar contract last year after his first year of real productivity. I think you have the years right, but I bet it will cost anywhere from $10 to $15 million to keep him....maybe more if he hits the open market.

With the salary cap overrage this team needs to clear up, this offseason will be very interesting.

Psycho Ward 86
12-27-2012, 08:08 PM
I think the shoulder seperation derailed him this year.

If he could ever stay healthy for a full season I think we'd have something special.

IF he could stay healthy. but he doesnt. so why so much faith in him...

zulater
12-27-2012, 08:26 PM
IF he could stay healthy. but he doesnt. so why so much faith in him...

At this point what choice is there? I figure he's going to be here. So might as wll hope for the best. His upside is pretty good in my opinion. Who knows, maybe 2013 is the year?

And really all in all for a 3rd receiver I thought he did an ok job this year.

Chidi29
12-27-2012, 08:38 PM
Don't discount the plan to keep his reps down so they don't have to pay him as much. It almost seems like he got less reps after Tomlin named him co-starter with Wallace. Sanders is due for a contract, so he does not have much of an argument right now. I think the Steelers try to grab him for 4-6mil for 3/4 years. Then we shall see his real numbers next year.

Wait, we're talking about Sanders, right? He's a RFA this year so we can keep him on the cheap for another season.

BlastFurnace
12-27-2012, 09:08 PM
Wait, we're talking about Sanders, right? He's a RFA this year so we can keep him on the cheap for another season.

Do you see any way we can keep Lewis and Wallace?

Chidi29
12-27-2012, 09:11 PM
Do you see any way we can keep Lewis and Wallace?

Yes. Omar Khan is one of the best numbers guys as far as I'm concerned so financially, I think you could pull it off. Wallace could be had for cheaper this year, at the very least, his market hasn't improved. I think Lewis will command more than some think, but it's still possible and I think he's a guy we definitely want to bring back.

Will we bring both back? That's a different question. But is it possible? Certainly.

Seven
12-27-2012, 10:00 PM
First, the Steelers tried to pay Wallace considerably more than Brown. So there goes that point.\

Second Brown had the same number of catches and less than 100 less yards than Wallace did this season in 3 1/2 less games. Clearly he was the Steelers best receiver this season even if he did have some bad moments.

And he had less bad moments than Wallace too.

The only thing Wallace did better than Brown was caught more touchdowns. but give Brown 3 1/2 more games and that gap is probably 8-6 instead of 8-4. and when you consider how many more first downs Brown accounted for than Wallace that more than negates that one stat in wallace's favor.

Dawg your boy is leaving town. Get used to it. .

Yeah. I'm really convinced now more than ever that Brown is the best receiver on the team. He's definitely a "try-hard" guy - I think Sanders might even have more straight up talent than he does, and Wallace absolutely does - but Brown's hard work really shows up on the field.

Steeldude
12-28-2012, 12:25 AM
we paid brown who showed his lack of focus many times on the field this season.

Did Brown openly admit he can't stay focused for an entire hour, like Wallace? Did Brown deliberately put forth zero effort on a pass, like Wallace?

LLT
12-28-2012, 01:04 AM
IF he could stay healthy. but he doesnt. so why so much faith in him...

Probably because of what he showed that first year. He has the talent...the drive...and the character to be something special. This is just my opinion....but I think he is not only our best route runner, but probably our best downfield blocker as a WR.

But you are correct in being a little skeptical due to the injuries.

Seven
12-28-2012, 04:00 AM
Probably because of what he showed that first year. He has the talent...the drive...and the character to be something special. This is just my opinion....but I think he is not only our best route runner, but probably our best downfield blocker as a WR.

But you are correct in being a little skeptical due to the injuries.

Absolutely right on both counts.

There is one play we've called a couple times this season where Sanders runs a deep whip route out of the slot and it's a marvelous experience to watch him execute that pattern.

Count Steeler
12-28-2012, 04:50 AM
Wait, we're talking about Sanders, right? He's a RFA this year so we can keep him on the cheap for another season.

Ideally, I think the Steelers would like to lock up Sanders for 4-5 years on a bargain contract.

steeldawg
12-28-2012, 05:50 AM
Did Brown openly admit he can't stay focused for an entire hour, like Wallace? Did Brown deliberately put forth zero effort on a pass, like Wallace?

He didnt have too he showed it on on national tv.

Seven
12-28-2012, 07:11 AM
He didnt have too he showed it on on national tv.

Why do you have some personal vendetta against Antonio Brown? He produced almost as well as Wallace this year and missed nearly 1/4th of the season. Your unexplained hatred for the guy is getting old. The contract he signed is absolutely market value for a receiver of his production if not a bargain. As Zulater said, they tried to offer Wallace even more than they offered Brown and he turned it down. Interesting that you failed to respond to that post, but precedent shows that's what you do when proven wrong so I don't know why I'm surprised.

86WARD
12-28-2012, 07:30 AM
So to sum it up, they offered Wallace more, Brown got paid what he got and neither was worth the offer or the contract in 2012 with the production or lack there of.

LLT
12-28-2012, 08:00 AM
He didnt have too he showed it on on national tv.


So....the answer is no. He didnt admit it like Wallace did.

Thank you.

Seven
12-28-2012, 10:08 AM
So to sum it up, they offered Wallace more, Brown got paid what he got and neither was worth the offer or the contract in 2012 with the production or lack there of.

I really don't see how Brown failed to live up to his contract. He played well other than the two costly turnovers, but everyone on the team turned it over too much this year. His production was pretty solid for playing 12 1/2 games.

Wallace had a good year too apart from the drops and fumbles. I don't think anyone is saying he wasn't decent. But to act like he's even marginally better than Brown is a joke and I'm tired of encountering "Brown was overpaid" in every damn thread.

Psycho Ward 86
12-28-2012, 10:19 AM
Probably because of what he showed that first year. He has the talent...the drive...and the character to be something special. This is just my opinion....but I think he is not only our best route runner, but probably our best downfield blocker as a WR.

But you are correct in being a little skeptical due to the injuries.

injury history downplays all of that

- - - Updated - - -


I really don't see how Brown failed to live up to his contract.

lol

LLT
12-28-2012, 10:53 AM
injury history downplays all of that


Well......no.

Thats wrong.

Players who have missed more games the last two years than Sanders due to injury? Peyton Manning, Adrian Peterson, Terrell Suggs, Jamaal Charles.......etc. Injury history is an indication that a player is hurt....period....not an indication that he doesnt have the talent to succeed if healthy.

Based on your logic....Rocky Bleier who couldnt walk without limping when he first showed up for Steelers camp...shouldnt have been given the chance to succeed because of his injuries.

Steeldude
12-28-2012, 02:29 PM
So....the answer is no. He didnt admit it like Wallace did.

Thank you.

Exactly.

I find it amusing that Steeldawg is scared to answer about 90% of questions concerning Wallace.

Seven
12-28-2012, 03:40 PM
lol

Profound.

The lack of any actual retort from those who disagree is pretty telling. I've yet to see anyone make a reasonable point that supports the idea he is overpaid.

steeldawg
12-28-2012, 06:25 PM
Why do you have some personal vendetta against Antonio Brown? He produced almost as well as Wallace this year and missed nearly 1/4th of the season. Your unexplained hatred for the guy is getting old. The contract he signed is absolutely market value for a receiver of his production if not a bargain. As Zulater said, they tried to offer Wallace even more than they offered Brown and he turned it down. Interesting that you failed to respond to that post, but precedent shows that's what you do when proven wrong so I don't know why I'm surprised.

How am i proven wrong??? your telling me brown was worth his contract this season? I dont hate brown i just think you simply giving him way too much credit for a guy who really has been mediocre at best. Yet you bash a guy who put up the best first 3 years of of any nfl receiver besides rice and moss, and nobody can explain to me how production like that doesnt get you a contract. Now people want wallace out, only to be replacedby brown, a guy who we have no idea that he can be a number 1, a guy we are not even sure can be successful without wallace, and a guy who as shown early signs of injury. Ya they offered wallace more because hes worth more, im not sure how that helps your point. The point was he said why would we pay a guy who doesnt focus, well we paid brown, and he lost focus more than once on the field this season if you want to give him a pass because he didnt say it go ahead, but he doesnt have to say it we all saw it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

steeldawg
12-28-2012, 06:33 PM
So....the answer is no. He didnt admit it like Wallace did.

Thank you.

Oh i get it brown gets a pass on not focusing because he didnt say it, so its ok to pay a guy who doesnt focus as long as they dont admit it, thanx for clearing that up.

43Hitman
12-28-2012, 07:02 PM
^^^ Go! Argue to your hearts content. :chuckle:

Count Steeler
12-28-2012, 07:04 PM
Just a reminder, this is not the Beat Down forum. Civility still rules the day.

tube517
12-28-2012, 07:25 PM
Wallace would smoke Curtis Brown any day. :chuckle:

Psycho Ward 86
12-28-2012, 07:48 PM
i remember when i was 4

LLT
12-28-2012, 08:11 PM
Oh i get it brown gets a pass on not focusing because he didnt say it, so its ok to pay a guy who doesnt focus as long as they dont admit it, thanx for clearing that up.

This thread is still about Wallace....You lose focus as badly as he does.


...and no. You dont get it.

Psycho Ward 86
12-28-2012, 08:31 PM
Well......no.

Thats wrong.

Players who have missed more games the last two years than Sanders due to injury? Peyton Manning, Adrian Peterson, Terrell Suggs, Jamaal Charles.......etc. Injury history is an indication that a player is hurt....period....not an indication that he doesnt have the talent to succeed if healthy.

Based on your logic....Rocky Bleier who couldnt walk without limping when he first showed up for Steelers camp...shouldnt have been given the chance to succeed because of his injuries.

Oh please tell me all about how sanders is on the same level as Peyton Manning, Adrian Peterson, Terrell Suggs, Jamaal Charles.......etc. That's a huge difference. Teams with players like those can afford to be patient with them because they are Other-Worldly players. Sanders is just a decent 3rd wide receiver from what he's shown. lol.

And the other big difference you didnt mention at all is that none of those players you listed above have a laundry list injury history like sanders does. peyton has the 2nd longest consecutive starting streak of all time. Adrian peterson had a knee ailment that barely had him miss any games during his ridiculous rookie season and that acl injury that he's followed up with one of the best seasons by an RB ever. Suggs has only missed 3 games and half the season this year during a 10 year career. Charles hasnt had any major injuries either other than that acl injury that he's following up with a pro bowl season and his best season ever.

Im not saying sanders doesnt have the talent to succeed. But he has yet to show he has the health to succeed. Bleier is just a fortunate exception imo. Sanders has had major injuries every season in a short career including that reoccuring foot injury. And headlining the injury list many times this season.

Psycho Ward 86
12-28-2012, 08:38 PM
Profound.

The lack of any actual retort from those who disagree is pretty telling. I've yet to see anyone make a reasonable point that supports the idea he is overpaid.

thats because its so painfully easy to retort your arguement. you think 64 catches, 765 yards, 4 td's, and 4 fumbles is worth an average of over $$7 million dollars a year? you can say that with a straight face :lol:? jesus peaches. lord knows our receivers have all the talent in the world but it doesnt take much to realize pretty much everyone on the offensive side of the ball has severely underachieved/not earned their contract this year.

except for heath.

LLT
12-28-2012, 09:17 PM
Oh please tell me all about how sanders is on the same level as Peyton Manning, Adrian Peterson, Terrell Suggs, Jamaal Charles.......etc. That's a huge difference. Teams with players like those can afford to be patient with them because they are Other-Worldly players. Sanders is just a decent 3rd wide receiver from what he's shown. lol.

And the other big difference you didnt mention at all is that none of those players you listed above have a laundry list injury history like sanders does. peyton has the 2nd longest consecutive starting streak of all time. Adrian peterson had a knee ailment that barely had him miss any games during his ridiculous rookie season and that acl injury that he's followed up with one of the best seasons by an RB ever. Suggs has only missed 3 games and half the season this year during a 10 year career. Charles hasnt had any major injuries either other than that acl injury that he's following up with a pro bowl season and his best season ever.

Im not saying sanders doesnt have the talent to succeed. But he has yet to show he has the health to succeed. Bleier is just a fortunate exception imo. Sanders has had major injuries every season in a short career including that reoccuring foot injury. And headlining the injury list many times this season.

Well...decide which argument you want to make, and we will talk. You said:


injury history downplays all of that

I purposefully gave examples of all pro players to show how silly those blanket statements are.

Now you are arguing that injury history ONLY applies to certain players or is a "fortunate exception".

I'm not willing to chase your debate through a dozen rabbit holes.

Psycho Ward 86
12-28-2012, 09:23 PM
Well...decide which argument you want to make, and we will talk. You said:



I purposefully gave examples of all pro players to show how silly those blanket statements are.

Now you are arguing that injury history ONLY applies to certain players or is a "fortunate exception".

I'm not willing to chase your debate through a dozen rabbit holes.

as before mentioned, the All-pro players you mentioned before dont have much of a history at all. Rather, they have a "blip on the radar" or 2. No contradictions here. And most of them have had pretty significantly long careers so imo a fluke injury or 2 isnt a telling sign of much at all. sanders has only been in the league for 3 seasons and keeps getting hurt and hurt and hurt. hope he can stay healthy with full time starter snaps because it sure is looking like thats what he's going to be getting next season

bayz101
12-28-2012, 09:44 PM
Antonio Brown led Wallace in receiving yards before his injury, and even with several games to make a gap, Wallace failed to separate his statistics by even a slight margin. Hell, the only stat Wallace has over Brown is the touchdown's, and quite honestly, he's the #1 guy on the depth chart. He's the first read. Of course he'll lead the team with touchdowns, and no, i'm not surprised at ALL to see who authored this thread.

When the Steelers offense needed a receiver to step it up when they absolutely needed to win in Pittsburgh last week, who led the team?

To be honest, I don't even want to discuss Wallace, Brown or Sanders. What about that #89 and #83? Those guys are pretty damn good, don't ya think?

X-Terminator
12-28-2012, 09:49 PM
He actually didn't author the thread - 43Hitman did. It's showing steeldawg as the thread starter due to merged earlier posts from other threads.

bayz101
12-28-2012, 10:04 PM
He actually didn't author the thread - 43Hitman did. It's showing steeldawg as the thread starter due to merged earlier posts from other threads.

This is confusing as hell. :chuckle:

Nonetheless, not surprising to see him participating in it.

Steeldude
12-28-2012, 10:14 PM
Oh i get it brown gets a pass on not focusing because he didnt say it, so its ok to pay a guy who doesnt focus as long as they dont admit it, thanx for clearing that up.

Can you prove Brown didn't focus? Brown has already been paid. You can't take the money back. Why do you want to sign a player who admits he can't stay focused for a mere one hour?

Did Brown deliberately put forth zero effort on a pass, like Wallace?

LLT
12-28-2012, 10:23 PM
as before mentioned, the All-pro players you mentioned before dont have much of a history at all.

I said...


Players who have missed more games the last two years than Sanders due to injury? Peyton Manning, Adrian Peterson, Terrell Suggs, Jamaal Charles

Reading is fundamental.

salamander
12-28-2012, 11:01 PM
:pop2:

Sorry :chuckle:

Psycho Ward 86
12-29-2012, 01:00 AM
I said...



Reading is fundamental.

sanders might as well have missed almost every game last year. He had marginal impact for us that year. Again, those players are perennial all-pro's, or probowlers and have proven that they can stay on the field far far better than sanders. Even when he's hit the field, clearly, his injuries are affecting him. Last year being the biggest example, the superbowl (when we needed him most) being another, and his ailments from this season. He's been a nonfactor for the past 3 games.

43Hitman
12-29-2012, 01:43 AM
He actually didn't author the thread - 43Hitman did. It's showing steeldawg as the thread starter due to merged earlier posts from other threads.

Just trying to help out brother. I didn't want to see Seven's thread get derailed again. Count mentioned that he may start a new one if shit didn't stop. We all know this discussion wasn't going to stop, so to preserve the great work that Seven did, I started this. If I crossed the line, then I apologize. Again my intentions were sincere.

Craic
12-29-2012, 01:59 AM
:huh:

At least we found our "Fire Arians" replacement issue for the offseason.

X-Terminator
12-29-2012, 02:09 AM
Just trying to help out brother. I didn't want to see Seven's thread get derailed again. Count mentioned that he may start a new one if shit didn't stop. We all know this discussion wasn't going to stop, so to preserve the great work that Seven did, I started this. If I crossed the line, then I apologize. Again my intentions were sincere.

I don't have a problem with it. The derailing of threads has gotten way out of hand recently, so hopefully it will keep the Brown vs. Wallace stuff confined to this thread.

Seven
12-29-2012, 06:55 AM
thats because its so painfully easy to retort your arguement. you think 64 catches, 765 yards, 4 td's, and 4 fumbles is worth an average of over $$7 million dollars a year? you can say that with a straight face :lol:? jesus peaches. lord knows our receivers have all the talent in the world but it doesnt take much to realize pretty much everyone on the offensive side of the ball has severely underachieved/not earned their contract this year.

If he would have played all 16 games he would have had 1020 yards if his production rate simply continued. Based on what we saw from the Cincinnati game I think it's a fair argument to say it would have increased, but for our purposes we'll say it wouldn't have. What is wrong with 1020 yards and four touchdowns? Or for that matter 765, 4 in 12 games? Hines Ward had seasons like that all the time and I never heard anyone say he was overpaid.

Ward:

2010: 755 yards, 5 TD. 15 games started.

2009: 1,167 yards, 6 TD. 16 games started.

2008: 1,043 yards, 7 TD. 15 games started.

2007: 732 yards, 7 TD. 13 games started.

2006: 975 yards, 6 TD. 14 games started.

2005: 975 yards, 11 TD. 15 games started.

2004: 1,004 yards, 4 TD. 16 games started.


On September 5, 2005, the Steelers announced that they had reached an agreement on a four-year contract extension worth $25.83 million with Ward.

So according to you, Ward would have been overpaid.

----------------------------------------------------

I realize you probably don't actually believe that.

But Brown puts up similar numbers, and he's overpaid, right? Give me a break.

Seven
12-29-2012, 07:02 AM
I don't have a problem with it. The derailing of threads has gotten way out of hand recently, so hopefully it will keep the Brown vs. Wallace stuff confined to this thread.

Sounds good to me.

- - - Updated - - -


:huh:

At least we found our "Fire Arians" replacement issue for the offseason.

:chuckle:

steeldawg
12-29-2012, 07:13 AM
First, the Steelers tried to pay Wallace considerably more than Brown. So there goes that point.\

Second Brown had the same number of catches and less than 100 less yards than Wallace did this season in 3 1/2 less games. Clearly he was the Steelers best receiver this season even if he did have some bad moments.

And he had less bad moments than Wallace too.
The only thing Wallace did better than Brown was caught more touchdowns. but give Brown 3 1/2 more games and that gap is probably 8-6 instead of 8-4. and when you consider how many more first downs Brown accounted for than Wallace that more than negates that one stat in wallace's favor.

Dawg your boy is leaving town. Get used to it. .

you can try and make that arguement but wallace was only targeted 17 more times this season than brown, so no its not clear he was the best receiver this season. Also i disagree i think brown had more miscues on the field this season than wallace did.

steeldawg
12-29-2012, 07:33 AM
If he would have played all 16 games he would have had 1020 yards if his production rate simply continued. Based on what we saw from the Cincinnati game I think it's a fair argument to say it would have increased, but for our purposes we'll say it wouldn't have. What is wrong with 1020 yards and four touchdowns? Or for that matter 765, 4 in 12 games? Hines Ward had seasons like that all the time and I never heard anyone say he was overpaid.

Ward:

2010: 755 yards, 5 TD. 15 games started.

2009: 1,167 yards, 6 TD. 16 games started.

2008: 1,043 yards, 7 TD. 15 games started.

2007: 732 yards, 7 TD. 13 games started.

2006: 975 yards, 6 TD. 14 games started.

2005: 975 yards, 11 TD. 15 games started.

2004: 1,004 yards, 4 TD. 16 games started.



So according to you, Ward would have been overpaid.

----------------------------------------------------

I realize you probably don't actually believe that.

But Brown puts up similar numbers, and he's overpaid, right? Give me a break.

because you dont give a guy a contract to a guy based on one season like we did brown. Ya 2004 wasnt great for ward but look at 03 and 02 very good seasons, also he was in the league for 6 years before that. Brown was not worth 7 mil a year this season and if he comes out and has the same season next year your ok with that production for 7 mil a year plus signing bonus for the next 4 years? I dont know how you discount missing 4 games either wallace will miss the first game of his career this sunday.

- - - Updated - - -

Another thing is I did not start this thread even though it has my name on it, and i did not derail any threads my wallace comments were in a wallace thread, if you would like to keep seperating the posters who diagree with you just call it what it is instead of calling it a derailment. If you look at thread all i said was we paid brown who lost focus many times this season.

Seven
12-29-2012, 07:35 AM
because you dont give a guy a contract to a guy based on one season like we did brown. Ya 2004 wasnt great for ward but look at 03 and 02 very good seasons, also he was in the league for 6 years before that. Brown was not worth 7 mil a year this season and if he comes out and has the same season next year your ok with that production for 7 mil a year plus signing bonus for the next 4 years? I dont know how you discount missing 4 games either wallace will miss the first game of his career this sunday.

I don't care about injuries. They happen. Unless it's a guy like Bob Sanders who cannot stay on the field, injuries are something you have to look past. It's very unfair to criticize a player for getting hurt.


And 2004 wasn't great for Ward? Well it was a lot better than 2006 and 2007 for him. And the years following that were similar to what Brown did this year. And you're right, he was older than Brown is - Ward was in his prime during these seasons. Brown is still growing.


If you don't believe Hines Ward was overpaid for these seasons, you have no argument that Brown was overpaid for this last season. Brown is putting up the same numbers as Ward did on a similar contract.

- - - Updated - - -


Another thing is I did not start this thread even though it has my name on it, and i did not derail any threads my wallace comments were in a wallace thread, if you would like to keep seperating the posters who diagree with you just call it what it is instead of calling it a derailment. If you look at thread all i said was we paid brown who lost focus many times this season.

You said that in a thread discussing Wallace's route running/focus issues. I don't see what Antonio Brown has to do with that.

I'm not upset about it or anything, though. I don't mind talking about Brown.

steeldawg
12-29-2012, 07:56 AM
I don't care about injuries. They happen. Unless it's a guy like Bob Sanders who cannot stay on the field, injuries are something you have to look past. It's very unfair to criticize a player for getting hurt.


And 2004 wasn't great for Ward? Well it was a lot better than 2005, 2006 and 2007 for him. And the years following that were similar to what Brown did this year. And you're right, he was older than Brown is - Ward was in his prime during these seasons. Brown is still growing.


If you don't believe Hines Ward was overpaid for these seasons, you have no argument that Brown was overpaid for this last season. Brown is putting up the same numbers as Ward did on a similar contract.

- - - Updated - - -



You said that in a thread discussing Wallace's route running/focus issues. I don't see what Antonio Brown has to do with that.

lets compare : Ward: 6055 yds 505 receptions 41 tds gets contract 4 years 25 mil
Brown: 1275 yds 85 catches 2 tds gets contract 4 years 42 mil

Steelers paid ward a contract for his consistency and coming off 2 big years he was named to 4 consecutive pro bowls broke the steelers single season receiving record with 112 catches and 12 tds had 4 consecutive 1000 yd seasons was named to the all nfl team twice, and after all of that ward had to holdout to get his deal.

Seven
12-29-2012, 08:08 AM
lets compare : Ward: 6055 yds 505 receptions 41 tds gets contract 4 years 25 mil
Brown: 1275 yds 85 catches 2 tds gets contract 4 years 42 mil

Steelers paid ward a contract for his consistency and coming off 2 big years he was named to 4 consecutive pro bowls broke the steelers single season receiving record with 112 catches and 12 tds had 4 consecutive 1000 yd seasons was named to the all nfl team twice, and after all of that ward had to holdout to get his deal.

No offense, but as usual you can't focus on the topic at hand.

The claim I'm disputing is that Brown was overpaid based on his performance this season. I don't want to go back in time and discuss - all over again - whether he should have been given the contract or not.

I used Ward to show that Brown put up similar stats - this year - to the year Ward had prior to getting his big contract. I believe Ward deserved the deal, but that's not what we're talking about and I have no desire to derail another thread.

If 765 yards and 4 scores through twelve contests is a poor season to you, so be it.

- - - Updated - - -


lets compare : Ward: 6055 yds 505 receptions 41 tds gets contract 4 years 25 mil
Brown: 1275 yds 85 catches 2 tds gets contract 4 years 42 mil

And Brown's contract is for five years, not four. I don't see how you can even begin to argue that Brown was overpaid when you don't even know what the length/value of his contract is. :coffee:

st33lersguy
12-29-2012, 10:36 AM
Brown has just simply had a bad year and shown a total lack of focus, Wallace has QUIT. We have all watched Wallace not even try to go after a ball that Wallace may have to extend to get. Frankly, if in the face of being over the salary cap, the Steelers pay Wallace what he is asking after quitting, I am just going to assume that the ghost of Al Davis visited Mr. Rooney's body and drove him to re-sign Wallace

steeldawg
12-29-2012, 02:10 PM
No offense, but as usual you can't focus on the topic at hand.

The claim I'm disputing is that Brown was overpaid based on his performance this season. I don't want to go back in time and discuss - all over again - whether he should have been given the contract or not.

I used Ward to show that Brown put up similar stats - this year - to the year Ward had prior to getting his big contract. I believe Ward deserved the deal, but that's not what we're talking about and I have no desire to derail another thread.

If 765 yards and 4 scores through twelve contests is a poor season to you, so be it.

- - - Updated - - -



And Brown's contract is for five years, not four. I don't see how you can even begin to argue that Brown was overpaid when you don't even know what the length/value of his contract is. :coffee:

You are totally missing the point, the point is ward was worth his contract because he was paid on a body of work, where as brown was not, a body of work is not one year nor is one year worth a long term deal for anybody. you discount the guys the guys achievements and other seasons simply because the year before his contract was a mediocre year, it works the other way too if a guy sucks for 3 years and then has one good year you dont shell out big dough till he proves he can produce on a consistent basis.

- - - Updated - - -


I don't care about injuries. They happen. Unless it's a guy like Bob Sanders who cannot stay on the field, injuries are something you have to look past. It's very unfair to criticize a player for getting hurt.


And 2004 wasn't great for Ward? Well it was a lot better than 2006 and 2007 for him. And the years following that were similar to what Brown did this year. And you're right, he was older than Brown is - Ward was in his prime during these seasons. Brown is still growing.


If you don't believe Hines Ward was overpaid for these seasons, you have no argument that Brown was overpaid for this last season. Brown is putting up the same numbers as Ward did on a similar contract.

- - - Updated - - -



You said that in a thread discussing Wallace's route running/focus issues. I don't see what Antonio Brown has to do with that.

I'm not upset about it or anything, though. I don't mind talking about Brown.only because someone brought up losing focus as reason he shouldnt get a contract i simply pointed out brown has a contract and he lost focus.

Psycho Ward 86
12-29-2012, 02:31 PM
If 765 yards and 4 scores through twelve contests is a poor season to you, so be it.

- - - Updated - - -



thats a great season for a #3 receivers. But hes not. Hes a NUMBER ONE receiver. thats a poor season for anybody being paid about $$7 million dollars a year and supposed to be ben's go to guy. very unfortunate that both of our starting receivers can say they played pretty poorly on a team that relies heavily on the passing game

GBMelBlount
12-29-2012, 02:48 PM
Yeah. I'm really convinced now more than ever that Brown is the best receiver on the team. He's definitely a "try-hard" guy -

I think Sanders might even have more straight up talent than he does, and Wallace absolutely does - but Brown's hard work really shows up on the field.

This is exactly how I feel about Brown and Sanders.

As far as Wallace, with a great long ball thrower like RGIII I think he can have 1500 yard seasons just streaking down the field...

Seven
12-29-2012, 04:55 PM
thats a great season for a #3 receivers. But hes not. Hes a NUMBER ONE receiver. thats a poor season for anybody being paid about $$7 million dollars a year and supposed to be ben's go to guy. very unfortunate that both of our starting receivers can say they played pretty poorly on a team that relies heavily on the passing game

I agree that mistakes were made by Wallace AND Brown, but again, if you don't think Ward was overpaid for pretty much identical production I don't see how you can support the claim that Brown was. If he wore number 86 and had 765 through 12 games I don't think anyone would hesitate to say he had a decent year.

- - - Updated - - -


You are totally missing the point, the point is ward was worth his contract because he was paid on a body of work, where as brown was not, a body of work is not one year nor is one year worth a long term deal for anybody.

Sure. You don't even know the basics of the contract but I'm missing the point. Got it.

Psycho Ward 86
12-29-2012, 07:05 PM
If he would have played all 16 games he would have had 1020 yards if his production rate simply continued. Based on what we saw from the Cincinnati game I think it's a fair argument to say it would have increased, but for our purposes we'll say it wouldn't have. What is wrong with 1020 yards and four touchdowns? Or for that matter 765, 4 in 12 games? Hines Ward had seasons like that all the time and I never heard anyone say he was overpaid.

Ward:

2010: 755 yards, 5 TD. 15 games started.

2009: 1,167 yards, 6 TD. 16 games started.

2008: 1,043 yards, 7 TD. 15 games started.

2007: 732 yards, 7 TD. 13 games started.

2006: 975 yards, 6 TD. 14 games started.

2005: 975 yards, 11 TD. 15 games started.

2004: 1,004 yards, 4 TD. 16 games started.



So according to you, Ward would have been overpaid.

----------------------------------------------------

I realize you probably don't actually believe that.

But Brown puts up similar numbers, and he's overpaid, right? Give me a break.

lol yeah IF he played in 16 games but he didnt did he? the team on the field could care less what he's ON PACE FOR. what's he actually doing on the field? Not enough. Ward was justly paid because he was reasonably productive for what he was paid in all of the 16 games he actually played. brown still has to earn his contract. and wallace REALLY fuckin needs to haul ass if he wants vincent jackson money.

Count Steeler
12-29-2012, 07:06 PM
lol yeah IF he played in 16 games but he didnt did he? the team on the field could care less what he's ON PACE FOR. what's he actually doing on the field? Not enough. Ward was justly paid because he was reasonably productive for what he was paid in all of the 16 games he actually played. brown still has to earn his contract. and wallace REALLY fuckin needs to haul ass if he wants vincent jackson money.

I almost guarantee that Wallace gets that money, on the open market. That's the main reason he won't be a Steeler next year.

zulater
12-29-2012, 07:18 PM
thats a great season for a #3 receivers. But hes not. Hes a NUMBER ONE receiver. thats a poor season for anybody being paid about $$7 million dollars a year and supposed to be ben's go to guy. very unfortunate that both of our starting receivers can say they played pretty poorly on a team that relies heavily on the passing game

Do you think there's even one person in the Steelers hiearchy who is currently saying, "boy we overpayed that Brown, I wish he wasn't signed to the contract we have him under for next year?

Conversly how many huge sigh's of relief are being breathed by these guys because Wallace didn't sign the contract they offered him?

Right now I think the Steelers are quite happy to have Brown inked for the amount of money they signed him to. And in the end that's why he's worth it.

Psycho Ward 86
12-29-2012, 08:30 PM
Do you think there's even one person in the Steelers hiearchy who is currently saying, "boy we overpayed that Brown, I wish he wasn't signed to the contract we have him under for next year?

.

never said anything about next year. didnt talk about how he isnt worth it next season at all. i was talking about this year.

Conversely, if you're looking at brown's future potential based on past success we could all be talking about wallace's future potential based on past success, but we dont because clearly theres an enigmatic salty attitude towards him that causes people to swing things to look as favorable as possible for brown, and as unfavorable as possible for wallace.

Devilsdancefloor
12-29-2012, 08:45 PM
brown = Heart and desire to be the best WR he can be. Wallace = strides to be the richest WR he can be

st33lersguy
12-29-2012, 08:52 PM
brown = Heart and desire to be the best WR he can be. Wallace = strides to be the richest WR he can be

and as we saw with guys like Albert Haynesworth and other free agents, guys who only seek a lot of money and get it almost always stop putting forth the effort when they get their payday. The alarming fact is Wallace did not try during his CONTRACT YEAR, when most of these money seekers have their career years

Psycho Ward 86
12-29-2012, 08:53 PM
brown = Heart and desire to be the best WR he can be. Wallace = strides to be the richest WR he can be

wanting money doesnt mean you dont work hard. working hard doesnt mean you dont want money

Steeldude
12-30-2012, 01:44 AM
The lack of effort put forth by Wallace in his contract year is unsettling. IMO, if he is given a huge contract the lack of effort will become worse.

fansince'76
12-30-2012, 04:52 AM
Conversely, if you're looking at brown's future potential based on past success we could all be talking about wallace's future potential based on past success, but we dont because clearly theres an enigmatic salty attitude towards him that causes people to swing things to look as favorable as possible for brown, and as unfavorable as possible for wallace.

And there's also been post after post after post here that has torn down Brown (and Sanders to boot) in an effort to make Wallace look better, even when Brown (and Sanders) weren't part of the original topic of the thread (which has usually dealt with Wallace's, and ONLY Wallaces', performance this season). It's gone both ways.

However, at the end of the day, it will be Brown (and Sanders) who will be on the team next year and beyond when Wallace will in all likelihood be long gone.

Seven
12-30-2012, 06:50 AM
lol yeah IF he played in 16 games but he didnt did he? the team on the field could care less what he's ON PACE FOR. what's he actually doing on the field? Not enough. Ward was justly paid because he was reasonably productive for what he was paid in all of the 16 games he actually played. brown still has to earn his contract.

That's garbage and I think you're smart enough to know it. So, according to you, if he had played 16 games and had 765 that would be okay? But because he got injured it is a bad year? What a crock of shit. If he was LaMarr Woodley and kept getting injured due to poor conditioning I could see your point. But Brown is one of the most fit players on the team. Just because he suffered an injury doesn't mean you can say he wasn't worth his contract. That's total bullshit and a cop out argument.

So Ward's 755 and 5 touchdowns through 15 games is better than Brown's 765 and 4 touchdowns through 12. That's the most ridiculous argument any Brown nay-sayer has made yet.

Psycho Ward 86
12-30-2012, 05:25 PM
That's garbage and I think you're smart enough to know it. So, according to you, if he had played 16 games and had 765 that would be okay? But because he got injured it is a bad year? What a crock of shit. If he was LaMarr Woodley and kept getting injured due to poor conditioning I could see your point. But Brown is one of the most fit players on the team. Just because he suffered an injury doesn't mean you can say he wasn't worth his contract. That's total bullshit and a cop out argument.

So Ward's 755 and 5 touchdowns through 15 games is better than Brown's 765 and 4 touchdowns through 12. That's the most ridiculous argument any Brown nay-sayer has made yet.

Lol, no? 765 yards in 16 games would be even worse than 765 yards in 12 games, have you gone mad? It was a bad year because his production didnt match $7 million a year, and certainly not that of a #1 receiver in a passing offense. Dont put words in my mouth. Nice try. Im looking at the bigger picture, not just injuries. Injuries AND production. Just because a player fails to match the production that his contract demands doesnt mean he was worth his contract. Generally, hines ward was obviously generally productive through the length of his contract so it was worth it by end's meet. Im sure brown will do the same. You seem to be mistaking my critique of brown as being that of "this guy thinks brown will never live up to his contract." But heres a super crazy story that will blow your mind: i never said that. not even once. All i did was point out that brown didnt live up to his contract JUST FOR THIS YEAR that averages $7 million dollars a year and for someone considered a #1 receiver. i dont know what you consider a brown nay sayer but if you mean someone who thinks wallace is better than brown then im not one. ive been critical of everyone in the young money crew this season.

i also never said anything about ward's 2010 season versus brown's 2012 season. Try to refrain from putting words in my mouth. Please and thank you :)

zulater
12-30-2012, 05:27 PM
A lot of players didn't earn their cap hit for this season. I wouldn't put Brown among that number. And even if you put him on yours, he's should be pretty far down the list.

I'm damn glad Antonio Brown is secured under contract for next season for the number he was signed to.

So what exactly is the issue again? :coffee: .

Psycho Ward 86
12-30-2012, 05:34 PM
A lot of players didn't earn their cap hit for this season. I wouldn't put Brown among that number. And even if you put him on yours, he's should be pretty far down the list.

I'm damn glad Antonio Brown is secured under contract for next season for the number he was signed to.

So what exactly is the issue again? :coffee: .

just as you said. everybody on offense underachieving other than heath miller

zulater
12-30-2012, 05:42 PM
just as you said. everybody on offense underachieving other than heath miller

You keep making an issue of Antonio's contract. Why?

Did that contract in any way prevent the Steelers from signing a better player this season?

Will his contract keep them from signing someone else next season?

Hell he even closed the gap on your boy for TD's this season. 8-5, and proved he can be a deep threat without Wallace on the field.

I'm glad his contract isn't an off season issue.


Why the hell his contract would bother anyone is puzzling?

Psycho Ward 86
12-30-2012, 05:58 PM
i didnt make an issue of it. everyone who freaked out did. all i did was start off by saying antonio brown didnt earn his contract this year. And a lot of people freaked out about it and i argued my points. thats what i get for saying anything marginally negative about our "golden boy." i think thats what someone crowned him in a different thread. i wonder who that could be

zulater
12-30-2012, 06:15 PM
i didnt make an issue of it. everyone who freaked out did. all i did was start off by saying antonio brown didnt earn his contract this year. And a lot of people freaked out about it and i argued my points. thats what i get for saying anything marginally negative about our "golden boy." i think thats what someone crowned him in a different thread. i wonder who that could be

Perhaps it's just that we disagree with your points on how Antonio was overpaid this year. Because i certainly do. Relative to his pay he was within the margins. He certainly wasn't stealing money like Woodley did this year.

If his contract didn't hurt the team's ability to sign another player to this year's roster and didn't cause a distraction with his play or within the team, now or going foward, then what does it even matter?

Was there someone on the bench behind him that should have played in place of him but didn't because of his contract?

Seriously and again, how the hell was he overpaid?

So how's this different than Wallace?

Because Wallace didn't sign, and that was an issue that kept Wallace out of camp and seemingly distracted him on the field of play all season, and will also rear up again this offseason because he's an UFA.

So yeah that's a big effing difference and if you can't see why contract is relevant in the discussion of Wallace and not so with Brown, well you just aren't doing the math very well. :doh:

Which mostly seems to be a problem isolated to just you and one other poster of note.

So I'll leave it there.:yawn:

Psycho Ward 86
12-30-2012, 06:25 PM
Neeeever said this is different than wallace...

lol

X-Terminator
12-30-2012, 06:25 PM
Not earning their contract THIS SEASON =/ thinking he is overpaid.

Just saying.

Psycho Ward 86
12-30-2012, 06:28 PM
Not earning their contract THIS SEASON =/ thinking he is overpaid.

Just saying.

exactly. thank you.

zulater
12-30-2012, 06:30 PM
Not earning their contract THIS SEASON =/ thinking he is overpaid.

Just saying.

I think Brown earned what he made this year.

Wallace to for that matter.

zulater
12-30-2012, 06:40 PM
Outside of this board, if you gave a normal Steeler fan 5 words to describe Antonio Brown's season. I'd wager "overpaid" wouldn't be one of them.

zulater
12-30-2012, 06:46 PM
Here's my 5 words to describe Wallace's season.

Holdout.

Unfocused.

Indifferent.

drops

Gone.

Count Steeler
12-30-2012, 06:47 PM
Here's my 5 words to describe Wallace's season.

Holdout.

Unfocused.

Indifferent.

drops

Gone.

Distraction?

zulater
12-30-2012, 07:08 PM
Distraction?

That works.

Notice one thing that didn't happen today?

Ben didn't throw an interception.

And why do I bring that up?

Who was he trying to force feed the ball too in both those instances?

Also even with Heath out Ben seemed to have open receivers on most every play he had time to get the ball away.

So much for the theory that Wallace draws half the defensive backfield to him on every play! :heh:

Conversly when Brown is out the Steelers had trouble getting anyone open.

Wallace will easily be replaced. Antonio Brown, not so much.

Count Steeler
12-30-2012, 08:12 PM
That works.

Notice one thing that didn't happen today?

Ben didn't throw an interception.

And why do I bring that up?

Who was he trying to force feed the ball too in both those instances?

Also even with Heath out Ben seemed to have open receivers on most every play he had time to get the ball away.

So much for the theory that Wallace draws half the defensive backfield to him on every play! :heh:

Conversly when Brown is out the Steelers had trouble getting anyone open.

Wallace will easily be replaced. Antonio Brown, not so much.

Could this be the root of the problem with Ben and Todd? Did Ben try too hard to get Wallace back?

zulater
12-30-2012, 08:19 PM
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321230023

Notice how Ben distributed the ball evenly today. 5 different receivers were each targeted 5 times apiece in Ben's 23 attempts.

Seven
01-01-2013, 10:12 PM
Not earning their contract THIS SEASON =/ thinking he is overpaid.

Just saying.

I can see a distinction between the two. But that's irrelevant as Brown doesn't fall under either category.

787 yards and 5 touchdowns during a season where you missed significant time due to injury just isn't underperforming. Like I said, very similar to Ward's production most of his career - and I didn't hear anyone say he was overpaid.

Psycho Ward 86
01-01-2013, 11:25 PM
I can see a distinction between the two. But that's irrelevant as Brown doesn't fall under either category.

787 yards and 5 touchdowns during a season where you missed significant time due to injury just isn't underperforming. Like I said, very similar to Ward's production most of his career - and I didn't hear anyone say he was overpaid.

and thats an opinion to think brown doesnt fall under either category.
its also an opinion to think that being on pace for a great season instead of actually having one means someone earned their payday for the year. not a big deal, considering the arrow is pointing up for brown and most everybody on offense underachieved anyways

zulater
08-13-2015, 08:09 PM
Do you think there's even one person in the Steelers hiearchy who is currently saying, "boy we overpayed that Brown, I wish he wasn't signed to the contract we have him under for next year?

Conversly how many huge sigh's of relief are being breathed by these guys because Wallace didn't sign the contract they offered him?

Right now I think the Steelers are quite happy to have Brown inked for the amount of money they signed him to. And in the end that's why he's worth it.

Good posting! :wink02:

st33lersguy
08-13-2015, 08:17 PM
Updated cage match, hall of fame game style: Wallace (the wide receiver on his 2nd team in 3 years after leaving the Steelers who did nothing in the hall of fame game) vs Brown ( the wide receiver deemed too valuable to play).

Wonder what steeldawg would have to say on this issue now. Probably would stop posting

polamalubeast
08-13-2015, 08:22 PM
Ward had a bad year in 2004?

This is ridiculous....Ward had 1,004 yards and 80 catch on only 108 targets

fansince'76
08-13-2015, 08:26 PM
This is ridiculous....

That was steeldawg... :chuckle:

st33lersguy
08-13-2015, 08:58 PM
Honestly though looking back, I am positive that Wallace was a locker room nuisance in 2012 and it dragged down AB. Though being the no. 2 receiver on an offense railroaded by a serious injury to Big Ben halfway through the season that clear as day affected by it upon return couldn't have helped AB either

fansince'76
08-13-2015, 08:59 PM
Honestly though looking back, I am positive that Wallace was a locker room nuisance in 2012 and it dragged down AB.

Absolutely he was and it did. Wallace was the one who started all that "Young Money" BS to begin with, IIRC. Not to mention that bitch move he pulled at the end of that season by tapping out of the season finale against the Browns.

zulater
08-13-2015, 09:04 PM
Honestly though looking back, I am positive that Wallace was a locker room nuisance in 2012 and it dragged down AB. Though being the no. 2 receiver on an offense railroaded by a serious injury to Big Ben halfway through the season that clear as day affected by it upon return couldn't have helped AB either

AB was having a great year and the Steelers were looking like solid AFC contenders until Antonio got a high ankle sprain in the Giants game. The very next game Ben got crushed (AB didn't suit up) against the Chiefs, and the rest as they say is history. People always point to Ben's injury in the Chiefs game as the season turning point. Me I think it was AB's injury the week before that set in motion the game circumstances that precipitated Ben's injury.

polamalubeast
08-13-2015, 09:11 PM
Absolutely he was and it did. Wallace was the one who started all that "Young Money" BS to begin with, IIRC. Not to mention that bitch move he pulled at the end of that season by tapping out of the season finale against the Browns.

And I remember that Webb of the ravens had said in 2011 that Brown was better than Wallace and Wallace had not appreciated!

hawaiiansteeler
08-13-2015, 10:53 PM
And I remember that Webb of the ravens had said in 2011 that Brown was better than Wallace and Wallace had not appreciated!

Webb was right...

teegre
08-14-2015, 04:36 PM
AB was having a great year and the Steelers were looking like solid AFC contenders until Antonio got a high ankle sprain in the Giants game. The very next game Ben got crushed (AB didn't suit up) against the Chiefs, and the rest as they say is history. People always point to Ben's injury in the Chiefs game as the season turning point. Me I think it was AB's injury the week before that set in motion the game circumstances that precipitated Ben's injury.

Excellent point. I hadn't ever thought about I that way.

hawaiiansteeler
11-29-2015, 12:22 PM
http://stmedia.stimg.co/ows_14487582688594.jpg?w=525

The Vikings replaced Greg Jennings with Mike Wallace because they believed Wallace would make more big plays. He has outperformed Jennings this season but has not produced the plays the Vikings coveted.

Wallace is on pace for the worst season of his career. At this rate, he would finish the regular season with 45 catches for 509 yards and two touchdowns. And that’s only if he continues on his season-long pace. If he is going to continue on the pace he has set over the past four games, the Vikings may as well cut him now....

Wallace has not produced 1,000 receiving yards in a season since 2011. He has produced one play of longer than 50 yards since 2012.

Over his past four games, Wallace has totaled two catches for 26 yards. In the Vikings’ biggest game since 2012, last Sunday against Green Bay, he dropped one pass — which would have extended the Vikings’ first drive with a first down near midfield, and possibly have led to the first score of the game — and caught none.

He hasn’t produced 40 yards receiving or a touchdown in a game since Oct. 4...

to read rest of article:

http://www.startribune.com/vikings-receiver-splurge-falls-incomplete/357357471/

Hawkman
11-29-2015, 12:35 PM
http://stmedia.stimg.co/ows_14487582688594.jpg?w=525

The Vikings replaced Greg Jennings with Mike Wallace because they believed Wallace would make more big plays. He has outperformed Jennings this season but has not produced the plays the Vikings coveted.

Wallace is on pace for the worst season of his career. At this rate, he would finish the regular season with 45 catches for 509 yards and two touchdowns. And that’s only if he continues on his season-long pace. If he is going to continue on the pace he has set over the past four games, the Vikings may as well cut him now....

Wallace has not produced 1,000 receiving yards in a season since 2011. He has produced one play of longer than 50 yards since 2012.

Over his past four games, Wallace has totaled two catches for 26 yards. In the Vikings’ biggest game since 2012, last Sunday against Green Bay, he dropped one pass — which would have extended the Vikings’ first drive with a first down near midfield, and possibly have led to the first score of the game — and caught none.

He hasn’t produced 40 yards receiving or a touchdown in a game since Oct. 4...

to read rest of article:

http://www.startribune.com/vikings-receiver-splurge-falls-incomplete/357357471/

Could his performance since he left the Steelers have something to do with fact that he hasn't had a QB anywhere near as good as BB. Just saying.:wink02:

tube517
11-29-2015, 12:39 PM
http://stmedia.stimg.co/ows_14487582688594.jpg?w=525

The Vikings replaced Greg Jennings with Mike Wallace because they believed Wallace would make more big plays. He has outperformed Jennings this season but has not produced the plays the Vikings coveted.

Wallace is on pace for the worst season of his career. At this rate, he would finish the regular season with 45 catches for 509 yards and two touchdowns. And that’s only if he continues on his season-long pace. If he is going to continue on the pace he has set over the past four games, the Vikings may as well cut him now....

Wallace has not produced 1,000 receiving yards in a season since 2011. He has produced one play of longer than 50 yards since 2012.

Over his past four games, Wallace has totaled two catches for 26 yards. In the Vikings’ biggest game since 2012, last Sunday against Green Bay, he dropped one pass — which would have extended the Vikings’ first drive with a first down near midfield, and possibly have led to the first score of the game — and caught none.

He hasn’t produced 40 yards receiving or a touchdown in a game since Oct. 4...

to read rest of article:

http://www.startribune.com/vikings-receiver-splurge-falls-incomplete/357357471/

That picture clearly shows him having to reach or jump for the ball. These journalists are so biased. That photographer should be fired! :stirthepot::mad::grin:

ALLD
11-29-2015, 01:04 PM
Wallace is a trade bust to the other teams who gambled on him. He is going down like JaMarcus Russel as one of the best prospects whose attitude kept him from being great or even decent anymore. I don't think anybody fears him.

cold-hard-steel
11-29-2015, 01:06 PM
Well,ummm,never mind

st33lersguy
11-29-2015, 01:12 PM
Ah the good ole days of Steeldawg arguing in favor of Wallace based off of him being a decoy

Mojouw
11-29-2015, 01:40 PM
Could his performance since he left the Steelers have something to do with fact that he hasn't had a QB anywhere near as good as BB. Just saying.:wink02:

Yup. Tannehill is a noodle armed captain checkdown style of QB. He simply couldn't hit Wallace over 10 yards downfield. Bridgewater is too timid to go deep. So there you have it.

Now, Wallace never really developed beyond his "one trick pony" status that Tomlin bestowed upon him.

I still contend, that one trick is really really really good - as long as you have a strong armed QB who isn't afraid to throw deep.

For instance, imagine Wallace with Joe "Moonball" Flacco. Sweet Baby Jesus. Those two would be a perfect match.

86WARD
11-29-2015, 02:01 PM
He's nothing without the underneath threat of Antonio Brown.

hawaiiansteeler
11-29-2015, 02:36 PM
He's nothing without the underneath threat of Antonio Brown.

I remember quite a few posters arguing that AB would never be a great #1 WR without Wallace taking the top off the coverage and drawing the double-teams.

hawaiiansteeler
01-10-2016, 03:55 PM
Mike Wallace had one catch for 10 yards today in the Viqueens' 10-9 loss to the Seahags.

yeah, he's worth $12 million/season...:wtf:

fansince'76
01-10-2016, 03:57 PM
Mike Wallace had one catch for 10 yards today in the Viqueens' 10-9 loss to the Seahags.

yeah, he's worth $12 million/season...:wtf:

You can't expect him to catch passes in sub-zero weather! Not his job! - steeldawg

:chuckle:

polamalubeast
01-10-2016, 03:58 PM
The Vikings will cut him in the offseason......

fansince'76
01-10-2016, 04:06 PM
How am i proven wrong??? your telling me brown was worth his contract this season? I dont hate brown i just think you simply giving him way too much credit for a guy who really has been mediocre at best. Yet you bash a guy who put up the best first 3 years of of any nfl receiver besides rice and moss, and nobody can explain to me how production like that doesnt get you a contract. Now people want wallace out, only to be replacedby brown, a guy who we have no idea that he can be a number 1, a guy we are not even sure can be successful without wallace, and a guy who as shown early signs of injury. Ya they offered wallace more because hes worth more, im not sure how that helps your point. The point was he said why would we pay a guy who doesnt focus, well we paid brown, and he lost focus more than once on the field this season if you want to give him a pass because he didnt say it go ahead, but he doesnt have to say it we all saw it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even more comical now than it was then... :lol:

st33lersguy
01-10-2016, 04:07 PM
Mike Wallace had one catch for 10 yards today in the Viqueens' 10-9 loss to the Seahags.

yeah, he's worth $12 million/season...:wtf:

Compared to AB's 7 rec for 119 yards, yep big mistake letting Wallace go

- - - Updated - - -

Sometimes I wish steeldawg was back just to have to answer for AB's monumental crater-sized advantage in production the last 3 years over Wallace

fansince'76
01-10-2016, 04:12 PM
Sometimes I wish steeldawg was back just to have to answer for AB's monumental crater-sized advantage in production the last 3 years over Wallace

Not me, because the guy would NEVER admit he was wrong, about ANYTHING. He was almost "Hipchestian" in that regard.

st33lersguy
01-10-2016, 04:15 PM
brown = Heart and desire to be the best WR he can be. Wallace = strides to be the richest WR he can be

Came across this while going back through this thread. Posted in 2012 and it clearly shows today. The catch is I bet this upcoming offseason AB still works harder than Wallace

- - - Updated - - -


Not me, because the guy would NEVER admit he was wrong, about ANYTHING. He was almost "Hipchestian" in that regard.

All the more reason, for comedy purposes

fansince'76
01-10-2016, 04:21 PM
All the more reason, for comedy purposes

This was steeldawg's "debating style" in a nutshell:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h207/creeper_photos/goalposts_zps4f0bcdaf.gif

hawaiiansteeler
01-10-2016, 04:49 PM
Not me, because the guy would NEVER admit he was wrong, about ANYTHING. He was almost "Hipchestian" in that regard.

did tony post here at SU also?

zulater
01-10-2016, 06:47 PM
I love when old threads where every single thing I said in them was proven right get bumped up! :heh:

Steeldude
01-10-2016, 07:10 PM
did tony post here at SU also?

Yes, but since he wasn't an SU mod he had to watch what he said.

- - - Updated - - -


Even more comical now than it was then... :lol:

And remember, WRs aren't supposed to fight for the ball or jump, and fundamentals are not needed.

He was almost as bad as the Kordell lovers back in the day. Ok, he wasn't that bad. Haha

tube517
01-10-2016, 07:11 PM
Steeldawg probably likes hippos and oakleys and WSOP

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

zulater
01-10-2016, 07:17 PM
Steeldawg probably likes hippos and oakleys and WSOP

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

Nah, not the same guy. Politically Steeldawg was slightly left of Castro. While Tee liked himself some conspiracy theories I never got the sense he was a left leaner.

lipps83
01-10-2016, 07:45 PM
Not me, because the guy would NEVER admit he was wrong, about ANYTHING. He was almost "Hipchestian" in that regard.

hahahaha, what ever happened to that guy? I know he was on the Fever forums, not sure where he went after that went down.

43Hitman
01-10-2016, 07:50 PM
hahahaha, what ever happened to that guy? I know he was on the Fever forums, not sure where he went after that went down.
He is at Steelers Xtreme

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

86WARD
01-10-2016, 08:00 PM
Did Mike Wallace play today?

Count Steeler
01-10-2016, 08:02 PM
Did Mike Wallace play today?

Don't think he gets paid to play in the cold.

hawaiiansteeler
01-10-2016, 08:32 PM
Did Mike Wallace play today?

kind of.

1 catch for 10 yards...

Steelermania
01-10-2016, 08:33 PM
He is at Steelers Xtreme

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

Does any team have the amount of message boards the Steelers do? The funny thing is that most of them are busy too. You look at other teams, and they may have 2 boards with some traffic, while there will be 3 or 4 more, with little activity.

zoneblitzerII
01-11-2016, 03:02 AM
From day one I saw that Antonio was better than Wallace. I always liked him more than Mike. Problem with Mike is that he has bad feet. They point outwards on his stride and reduce his agility. Antonio's agility was always off the charts with his fluid and efficient stride. He may not have been the straight ahead burner that Wallace was but he always had far more to offer. Put simply, the kid is just a far better athlete than Mike.

hawaiiansteeler
01-12-2016, 02:48 PM
Mike Zimmer wants Mike Wallace back in 2016

Posted by Josh Alper on January 12, 2016

https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/501315694-e1452627910908.jpg?w=239

When wide receiver Mike Wallace joined the Vikings last offseason in a trade with the Dolphins, there was a lot of talk about whether he’d be a happier and more productive member of the offense than he was in Miami.

There were no big complaints from Wallace over the course of the season, but there wasn’t much production either. Wallace had 39 catches for a career-low 473 yards and a career-low two touchdowns for the Vikings and closed out the year with one catch for 10 yards against the Seahawks. Wallace’s longest catch of the season was for 34 yards, which illustrates the general lack of big plays through the air in Minnesota this season.

Wallace’s lack of production makes it hard to imagine that he’ll be back under his current contract, which calls for Wallace to make $11.45 million in 2016. Coach Mike Zimmer said he was disappointed “that it wasn’t the season that he wanted or we wanted” and isn’t sure how things will work out, but knows that he’d be happy to have Wallace on the team next season.

to read rest of article:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

polamalubeast
01-12-2016, 02:56 PM
Wallace would be the 5th best WR of the Steelers right now.Maybe 6th if Coates becomes good.

We must also admit that the steelers were fortunate that Wallace refuses the offer of 5 years,50 million of the steelers.

tube517
01-12-2016, 02:59 PM
He isnt even a one trick pony anymore. Not even a threat.

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

86WARD
01-12-2016, 03:28 PM
He isnt even a one trick pony anymore. Not even a threat.

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

Relax...he had one catch for 10 in the playoff game...it was a long 10.

tube517
01-12-2016, 05:11 PM
Relax...he had one catch for 10 in the playoff game...it was a long 10.

:lol:

Hope he didn't have to jump...

86WARD
01-12-2016, 08:08 PM
:lol:

Hope he didn't have to jump...

Straight line speed!!

hawaiiansteeler
01-12-2016, 11:02 PM
:lol:

Hope he didn't have to jump...

come on, you can't expect or ask a guy to jump for a ball when you only pay him $12 million/season...

hawaiiansteeler
02-10-2016, 02:01 PM
NFL Rumors - Feb 10 Updates:

Mike Wallace isn't expected to return to Minnesota in 2016. - Matt Vensel , Minneapolis Star-Tribune

http://www.walterfootball.com/nflrumors

86WARD
02-10-2016, 06:38 PM
He was pretty much useless there.

ALLD
02-10-2016, 06:42 PM
Unique situation where a player had a couple of good years and then turned into a bust.

fansince'76
02-10-2016, 10:33 PM
I love when old threads where every single thing I said in them was proven right get bumped up! :heh:

Agreed. The insinuation that the Steelers screwed the pooch by paying AB and letting Wallace walk early in this thread is even more laughable now than it was then.


Unique situation where a player had a couple of good years and then turned into a bust.

"Haynesworth-itis" - he got paid and promptly stopped giving a shit. And his performance since then reflects it. Actually, scratch that - Wallace started dogging it a full season-and-a-half BEFORE he got paid.

st33lersguy
02-11-2016, 07:14 PM
Anyone who watched Wallace play his last year and a half in Pittsburgh could see Wallace would be a major free agent flop and that AB would be better.

zulater
02-11-2016, 07:38 PM
Anyone who watched Wallace play his last year and a half in Pittsburgh could see Wallace would be a major free agent flop and that AB would be better.

I can think of one notable exception. :lol:

tube517
02-11-2016, 07:45 PM
Agreed. The insinuation that the Steelers screwed the pooch by paying AB and letting Wallace walk early in this thread is even more laughable now than it was then.



"Haynesworth-itis" - he got paid and promptly stopped giving a shit. And his performance since then reflects it. Actually, scratch that - Wallace started "Steeldawgging" it a full season-and-a-half BEFORE he got paid.


Fixed.

C'mon too easy. :sofunny:

hawaiiansteeler
03-08-2016, 03:29 PM
Mike Wallace released by Vikings after one year

Ben Goessling
ESPN Staff Writer

http://a4.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2015%2F1210%2Fr34961_1296x729_16% 2D9.jpg&w=570

MINNEAPOLIS -- The Minnesota Vikings' one-year run with wide receiver Mike Wallace is over.

The Vikings released Wallace on Tuesday, parting ways with the receiver a year after they sent a fifth-round pick to the Miami Dolphins for him. The team had hoped Wallace would become a deep threat in Norv Turner's offense, but the 29-year-old caught just 39 passes for 473 yards and two touchdowns, as the team's downfield passing game never materialized.

By releasing Wallace, the Vikings will recoup $11.5 million in cap space for 2016.

Wallace, who came to Minnesota after two disappointing years with the Dolphins, was a loyal soldier in Minnesota, even as he expressed private frustrations about his role in the offense. Protection problems contributed to the Vikings' inability to find the 2011 Pro Bowler on downfield throws, and quarterback Teddy Bridgewater missed Wallace on several deep shots, including a would-be touchdown on Nov. 1 in Chicago. Still, Wallace drew praise from general manager Rick Spielman and coach Mike Zimmer for his leadership, contributing to the development of rookie Stefon Diggs as the senior member of the Vikings' receiver group.

After the season, Zimmer expressed interest in having Wallace return.

"I would like him back. I love the kid, I love his heart," he said. "He didn't bitch one time about not getting the ball. He just went and worked every day and tried to get guys better. He loves it here, he loves Teddy. If it can get worked out, I'd like to have him back. But I want to do what's best for Mike Wallace, too. I told most of the players that are free agents, that I want them to do what's best for them."

Wallace, who averaged 17.2 yards per catch during his first four seasons with the Steelers, hasn't eclipsed 13 yards a catch since.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14929592/minnesota-vikings-release-wide-receiver-mike-wallace

st33lersguy
03-08-2016, 06:19 PM
Antonio Brown 2013-now: Has become the best WR in the league
Mike Wallace 2013-now: Cut by his 2nd team since 2013

polamalubeast
03-13-2016, 10:01 AM
709029299915894784

tube517
03-13-2016, 11:21 AM
Antonio Brown 2013-now: Has become the best WR in the league
Mike Wallace 2013-now: Cut by his 2nd team since 2013

B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but Wallace is my "dawg"! :chuckle:



I dont hate brown i just think you simply giving him way too much credit for a guy who really has been mediocre at best said by "You know who" :rofl2:

Mojouw
03-13-2016, 02:04 PM
http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2016/03/13/steelers-could-bring-back-mike-wallace-to-fill-void-of-martavis-bryant/

I agree. Bottom line, if Wallace wants come and play a year for a low ball contract? Why not? Buys the team a season to figure out what their WR path going forward is and it gives Wallace a chance to rehab his value around the league in what is shaping up to be an offense that will put up stupid #'s.

polamalubeast
03-13-2016, 02:16 PM
If Wallace wants to return with the Steelers at the right price, maybe I'd say yes, but if the steelers have a lot confidence in Sammie Coates, I do not think it's a good idea to sign Wallace.

Mojouw
03-13-2016, 02:19 PM
If Wallace wants to return with the Steelers at the right price, maybe I'd say yes, but if the steelers have a lot confidence in Sammie Coates, I do not think it's a good idea to sign Wallace.

Who is your 5th WR? A rookie? That means another draft pick that doesn't go to restocking your depleted defense. Maybe Eli Rogers or Shakim Phillips? Their next good NFL catch and route will be their first.

If this team is really loading up for a SB run this year -- a vet WR may be necessary not a luxury.

polamalubeast
03-13-2016, 02:26 PM
Who is your 5th WR? A rookie? That means another draft pick that doesn't go to restocking your depleted defense. Maybe Eli Rogers or Shakim Phillips? Their next good NFL catch and route will be their first.

If this team is really loading up for a SB run this year -- a vet WR may be necessary not a luxury.


The Steelers rarely uses their 4th WR and for their 5th WR, he is not dressed in gameday, like Coates last year.

We'll have to be very unlucky for the injuries next year for than the Steelers need a another WR.

Mojouw
03-13-2016, 02:34 PM
The Steelers rarely uses their 4th WR and for their 5th WR, he is not dressed in gameday, like Coates last year.

We'll have to be very unlucky for the injuries next year for than the Steelers need a another WR.

AB and Wheaton start. Coates comes in as the 3rd. DHB (of the questionable hands) gets a hat on gameday and is the primary back-up. Wheaton hyper extends a knee and is out for 2 weeks. Who is your other WR?

With Bryant not available, this team needs another WR. It doesn't need another great WR, just someone who is experienced and will play for peanuts.

Count Steeler
03-13-2016, 05:44 PM
AB and Wheaton start. Coates comes in as the 3rd. DHB (of the questionable hands) gets a hat on gameday and is the primary back-up. Wheaton hyper extends a knee and is out for 2 weeks. Who is your other WR?

With Bryant not available, this team needs another WR. It doesn't need another great WR, just someone who is experienced and will play for peanuts.

Lararius Green goes out and the Outlaw steps up.

hawaiiansteeler
03-13-2016, 06:07 PM
Mike Wallace scheduled to visit Ravens Monday

Posted by Josh Alper on March 13, 2016

Wide receiver Mike Wallace has been linked to the Ravens since he was released by the Vikings and that connection could turn into a contract on Monday.

Don Banks of Sports Illustrated reports that Wallace will visit with the Ravens to kick off the week. It’s the first visit that Wallace has taken since parting ways with the Vikings.

Banks adds that the Ravens are only interested in signing Wallace on a “low-budget deal,” which might be the reality for Wallace after three years of underwhelming production after signing a big deal with the Dolphins as a free agent. Wallace averaged over 17 yards per catch in his first four seasons, but has failed to crack 13 yards per catch in the three years since he left the Steelers.

The Ravens have Steve Smith returning from a torn Achilles and Breshad Perriman coming back from the knee injury that wiped out his entire rookie season, leaving Kamar Aiken and Marlon Brown as the surest things at wideout. That should mean opportunities for Wallace if his stay in Baltimore extends past Monday.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/13/mike-wallace-scheduled-to-visit-ravens-monday/

Mojouw
03-13-2016, 06:09 PM
Lararius Green goes out and the Outlaw steps up.

Maybe. I'm not saying it has to be Wallace, but the Steelers need another WR. Could be Eli Rogers or one of the other WR/KR guys they signed to a futures contract? Sure.

Whether they use that player as the "next man up" or shift a TE in to that role - they need to get another dude on the roster and in the system.

86WARD
03-13-2016, 09:02 PM
Off the top of my head, I'd take Anquan Boldin over most of the other free agents that are out there. Maybe I'm forgetting someone but from what I can remember, I'd take Boldin.

Hawkman
03-13-2016, 10:06 PM
Off the top of my head, I'd take Anquan Boldin over most of the other free agents that are out there. Maybe I'm forgetting someone but from what I can remember, I'd take Boldin.

No!

86WARD
03-14-2016, 09:46 PM
Why not?

polamalubeast
03-15-2016, 01:03 PM
709801061545078785

- - - Updated - - -

709801904205910016

hawaiiansteeler
03-15-2016, 01:37 PM
Ravens Sign WR Mike Wallace

BY DAVE BRYAN MARCH 15, 2016

Veteran wide receiver Mike Wallace is back in the AFC North again as he’s reportedly decided to sign with the Baltimore Ravens. Wallace’s new deal is reportedly for two-years and worth $11.5 million.

Ravens are giving former Vikings WR Mike Wallace a 2-year, $11.5 million deal, per source.

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) March 15, 2016

Wallace, who was released by the Minnesota Vikings prior to the start of the new league year, will now look to provide the Ravens a deep passing threat as the team continues to develop their other young wide receivers on the roster.

The Ravens entered Tuesday with Steve Smith Sr. and Breshad Perriman as their two main wide receivers under contract for the 2016. However, Smith is coming off of a serious injury while Perriman failed to play a single play during his rookie season due to a knee injury. The Ravens are also expected to keep restricted free agent wide receiver Kamar Aiken this offseason after issuing him a tender prior to the start of free agency.

Last season, Wallace caught 39 passes for 473 yards and two touchdowns with the Vikings after they acquired him in an offseason trade with the Miami Dolphins.

Wallace, who spent his first four seasons in the NFL with the Pittsburgh Steelers after they drafted him in the third round of the 2009 NFL Draft out of Mississippi, signed a lucrative five-year contract worth $60 million with the Dolphins as an unrestricted free agent in 2013.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/03/ravens-sign-wr-mike-wallace/

hawaiiansteeler
03-15-2016, 02:01 PM
March 15 Updates

Ravens sign WR Mike Wallace (2 years, $11.5 million): C Grade

It's astonishing how far Mike Wallace has fallen. Once seen as one of the better receivers in the NFL when he was a Steeler, Wallace was banished from Miami and then went on to struggle with the Vikings. Lesson learned: If paired with a Hall of Fame-caliber quarterback, don't take the money and run to a lesser franchise with a worse signal-caller.

It's unknown how much Wallace has left. He used to burn defensive backs with his great speed, but given that he's turning 30 in August, he won't be able to rely on that attribute as much anymore. We'll certainly find out early, as the big-armed Joe Flacco will undoubtedly launch some deep shots toward Wallace downfield. Wallace has been extremely inefficient when catching those sorts of passes recently, but he hasn't exactly been paired with the greatest downfield throwers.

It should be noted that the Ravens are at risk here. The contract isn't a big deal, but Wallace's attitude is. Wallace quit on the Dolphins, and there's a reason the Vikings didn't want him back. He's a bad guy to have in the locker room, so he could damage Baltimore in that regard. It's also possible that he could turn his career around with a solid season, but that's not as likely.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagentsigninggrades.php#ck5frfuHvk233vUe.99

st33lersguy
03-15-2016, 02:03 PM
Too bad Wallace won't go after moonballs

st33lersguy
12-25-2016, 08:13 PM
Antonio Brown vs Mike Wallace with the AFC North on the line

Mike Wallace- 4 receptions 21 yards, a non-factor in crunch time
Antonio Brown 10 receptions 96 yards, fought for the game winning TD when being tackled short of the end-zone would have lost the game for Pittsburgh