Wallace Thread Derailment

[Steelreal]

This is GOOD work! But it highlights what we already knows. I believe Wallace is frustrated because his QB cannot get him the Ball in places where he can make a play after the catch. Ben throw TO THE MAN. He is not an anticipatory passer so he doesnt throw to a spot. Wallace plays uninspired at times due to frustration. Plax talked about the same thing after he left. He said "Eli gives me room to run after the catch. Ben would make me sit down" Makes a lot of difference. I can appreciate a thread like this but I would also like to see a breakdown on how inept Ben Roethlisberger is as a passer in the redzone. Ben has FOUR above average receivers, none of which are playing above average. How come? So its all Wallace, Sanders, Brown and Heaths fault? They are ALL running bad routes? They are all dropping passes? Is it the Receivers? or the Qb?

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When everyone was killing Arians. I was his lone backer (few others). WHY is Arians having success with a rookie and Ben is having the SAME problems. Why? Can anyone answer that? If Arians was the problem, or Wallace then why were the same problems existing before Wallace and after Arians?

[Steelreal]

Now you guys see what Ben Roethlisbergers problem is. FEW hold him accountable for anything. How will he improve? Everyone tells him "Its not your falult Ben". So in his mind he is doing nothing wrong so he doesnt need to improve. A former Steeler talked about this very thing. He said Ben would throw a bad pass and Tomlin would get all over the receiver and say nothing to Ben. Marvel talked about this. Marvel said that type of thing NEVER went on with Cowher. He would hold Ben accountable and Ben didnt like it.

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Great breakdown! I loved reading that. One other thing I noticed a couple times and I haven't done any kind of analysis on, it is just an observation is on some deep balls, I feel like Mike gives up if they aren't perfectly thrown in stride. And sometimes it looks like he is trying to draw a PI flag rather than making an effort to get to the ball. I forget the game, but it looked like if he had kept running and maybe extended his arms out or heaven forbid dove, he had a shot at a catch, but instead he did a weird lean-back arm flail that looked like he tried to draw a flag. This angers me because it it not only a bad football play, it shows a lack of integrity.

Accurate assesment and I agree but dont the bad passes equally infuriate you? or no?

[Animal Mother]

This is GOOD work! But it highlights what we already knows. I believe Wallace is frustrated because his QB cannot get him the Ball in places where he can make a play after the catch. Ben throw TO THE MAN. He is not an anticipatory passer so he doesnt throw to a spot. Wallace plays uninspired at times due to frustration. Plax talked about the same thing after he left. He said "Eli gives me room to run after the catch. Ben would make me sit down" Makes a lot of difference. I can appreciate a thread like this but I would also like to see a breakdown on how inept Ben Roethlisberger is as a passer in the redzone. Ben has FOUR above average receivers, none of which are playing above average. How come? So its all Wallace, Sanders, Brown and Heaths fault? They are ALL running bad routes? They are all dropping passes? Is it the Receivers? or the Qb?

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When everyone was killing Arians. I was his lone backer (few others). WHY is Arians having success with a rookie and Ben is having the SAME problems. Why? Can anyone answer that? If Arians was the problem, or Wallace then why were the same problems existing before Wallace and after Arians?

I don't think it's always as cut and dry as either a QB or an OC. And I think A LOT has to do with the offensive line. Ours seems to always let a stray rusher through and Ben masks this problem with brilliant play. I haven't watched any Indy games, but I'd be willing to bet that Luck has better protection. Any OC or QB is going to look good if the OL does their job.

[Steelreal]

The interecepted pass was LATE and errant. Had nothing to do with the route. Jaws, Steve Young, Dilfer and Simms called it a bad pass. I'll take their word for it rather than watching still shots If you freeze the below play at :18 you can see if Wallace does the out like Seven described he would be near the sideline. Now look were the ball is. It seems Wallace curved his route to come back for the errant pass, its just that the DB beat him to it. No sticking up for Wallace just stating the facts. This route is A TIMING ROUTE. Ben doesnt do timing well. He is not an anticipatory passer. On this play Ben is to throw the ball on Time (he was late) to a spot. By the time Wallace breaks the ball should be on him.

However, Again, Ben is not an anticipatory passer he waits for the man to "show open" and then he throws. Vs a good defense this will get you in trouble. Now you know why he struggles vs a good defense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF-PRJBo9rc

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I don't think it's always as cut and dry as either a QB or an OC. And I think A LOT has to do with the offensive line. Ours seems to always let a stray rusher through and Ben masks this problem with brilliant play. I haven't watched any Indy games, but I'd be willing to bet that Luck has better protection. Any OC or QB is going to look good if the OL does their job.

The Colts had the worst OL in the league once Manning got hurt. They had the BEST with Manning. Fact remains is that Ben is having the SAME issues and Arians is having success WITH A ROOKIE. Its easy to see who the problem is/was.

[LLT]

Wallace plays uninspired at times due to frustration.

There is absolutely no way you could know that.


Plax talked about the same thing after he left. He said "Eli gives me room to run after the catch. Ben would make me sit down"

Link?



Also, something that baffles me is that Wallace tends to zig zag when he is running. Even on the go pattern it was a slight left, right, left, right zig zag once he got by the corner. If you notice I used a different tool to highlight Brown's route - that wasn't by design. I tried using that straight line point A to point B tool with Wallace and couldn't do it. He somehow ends up going east and west slightly no matter what he's running. Can't figure out why.

I really do hope we can garner some mutual opinions on Wallace from this. I know he has been a big topic of debate around here for a while now. It would be nice to reach some sort of conclusion.

I think that before he gets past the corner...it appears that he is trying to get the corner to turn his hips, but isnt quite able to get the corner to "bite". After he gets past the corner?....yea...no idea.

[Steelreal]

There is absolutely no way you could know that.



Link?

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I think that before he gets past the corner...it appears that he is trying to get the corner to turn his hips, but isnt quite able to get the corner to "bite". After he gets past the corner?....yea...no idea.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19196382/steelers-cb-ike-taylor-says-wr-mike-wallace-is-frustrated-with-contract-situation
There you go sir. Plax's comments are in a sitdown prior to SB vs Pats.

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Now look at that play again and TELL ME its Wallaces fault. Thats ludicrous

[Count Steeler]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19196382/steelers-cb-ike-taylor-says-wr-mike-wallace-is-frustrated-with-contract-situation
There you go sir. Plax's comments are in a sitdown prior to SB vs Pats.


Can't see any mention of Plaxico in that link.

[LLT]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19196382/steelers-cb-ike-taylor-says-wr-mike-wallace-is-frustrated-with-contract-situation
There you go sir. Plax's comments are in a sitdown prior to SB vs Pats.


You stated that Wallace was frustrated due to Ben...


I believe Wallace is frustrated because his QB cannot get him the Ball in places where he can make a play after the catch. Ben throw TO THE MAN. He is not an anticipatory passer so he doesnt throw to a spot. Wallace plays uninspired at times due to frustration

But instead... you provide a link in which Wallace is frustrated with his contract.
Try again.

I also asked for a link to where you claim Plaxico made specific statements.


Plax talked about the same thing after he left. He said "Eli gives me room to run after the catch. Ben would make me sit down"

You failed to provide that link also.
Try again.

[Seven]

There is absolutely no way you could know that.



Link?




I think that before he gets past the corner...it appears that he is trying to get the corner to turn his hips, but isnt quite able to get the corner to "bite". After he gets past the corner?....yea...no idea.

Yeah, I would totally understand it if that was the case. But once you beat your guy GO! I don't know what the hell it's about. Maybe he has an abnormally wide stride? But that doesn't make sense because he wouldn't be nearly as fast as he is without utilizing his stride properly. I notice it a lot with crossing patterns. It seems almost like he thinks the zig zag is going to help him get a better angle to beat defenders but I just don't know. I've noticed it live to a lesser extent but really slowing his game down - it really stands out. If you come to any conclusions let me know. Maybe it's just me.

[Steelreal]

I don't think it's always as cut and dry as either a QB or an OC. And I think A LOT has to do with the offensive line. Ours seems to always let a stray rusher through and Ben masks this problem with brilliant play. I haven't watched any Indy games, but I'd be willing to bet that Luck has better protection. Any OC or QB is going to look good if the OL does their job.

A smart quarterback makes a line better. An indecisive one makes it worse. Vick and his line? Line or Vick? I contend it is Vick and his indecisiveness. Add Foles and not nearly the same problems. Same with Ben. Batch is not sackes nearly as much as Ben. Same line. Luck is SMART so therefore his mind puts him in a better situation to have success.

[Steelreal]

Thank you Steelreal and Animal mother.

@Steelreal, you already know you and I differ on Roethlisberger. Not exactly sure how Wallace running poor routes indicates that Ben is a bad passer, because as I showed on the first example, Ben put the ball where it needed to be if Wallace broke the route off correctly. But I'm glad you enjoyed the read nontheless.

@Animal Mother, I have thought that maybe once or twice over the last couple of seasons. It is frustrating to see a guy get overthrown pretty frequently when he brags that he cannot be overthrown. Whether or not he gives up on balls that aren't perfect thrown deep, I can't really say for certain. But I will play devil's advocate and suggest that sometimes playing for pass interference is the smarter play.

Ben is not a good timing passer. Wallace isnt a great route runner. I acknowledge both. Again, I am fair. You guys act like you havent seen Wallace running wide open HIS WHOLE CAREER and being missed. I have. I saw it again, last week. Ben threw a bad pass and every expert has acknowledge this. HOW you can blame Wallace is beyond me. Look at the placement of the ball. This is to be a one step and fire, its a timing route. WHEN have you known Ben to be a great timing qb? When? When have you heard of Ben staying late with his receivers and working on routes. When?


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19196382/steelers-cb-ike-taylor-says-wr-mike-wallace-is-frustrated-with-contract-situation

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You stated that Wallace was frustrated due to Ben...



But instead... you provide a link in which Wallace is frustrated with his contract.
Try again.

I also asked for a link to where you claim Plaxico made specific statements.



You failed to provide that link also.
Try again.

Ok I failed. Now what? lol

[Steelreal]

So the high passes to Heath? Heaths fault? The overthrown pass to Wallace? Wallaces fault. Bad pass to Sanders. Damn you Emmanuel!!! Ben can do no wrong. ITS THE LINE, ITS ARIANS. ITS WALLACE, ITS TOMLIN, ITS THE COLD FOOTBALL, ITS ANYTHING BUT THE OBVIOUS LOL

[Devilsdancefloor]

we as fans look at ben at times and yell the obivous throw the ball away or what ever, but Ben is not above the fray by any means just as all the other players and coaches. Wallace put himself under the microscope this season with his holdout. He hasnt even come close to performing. If oyu watch his realease and his routes on most plays you are left scratching your head. He really needs to improve this steelreal, but arguing it is all on Ben doesnt make sense

[LLT]

Originally Posted by LLT

You stated that Wallace was frustrated due to Ben...

But instead... you provide a link in which Wallace is frustrated with his contract.
Try again.

I also asked for a link to where you claim Plaxico made specific statements.

You failed to provide that link also.
Try again.





Ok I failed. Now what? lol

Then we can all assume that we are correct in thinking that your "facts" are made up ten seconds before you post.

[Steelreal]

Then we can all assume that we are correct in thinking that your "facts" are made up ten seconds before you post.

Please provide links for all of your points. I'll wait

[Seven]

Please provide links for all of your points. I'll wait

What points has he made? All he did was ask you for your source?

[Steelreal]

Seven, you do know any player that runs a route in the nfl must adjust his route accordingly to what the coverage is giving him? they dont always run exactly whats on the clipboard everytime? lol.

Thats right. ESPECIALLY vs a ZONE. Which the Cowboys were in on this play. I just find it funny that BR has NEVER had a receiver who has caught 100 balls. He has NEVER had a receiver who has went to the Probowl. Ben has ONLY one Pro Bowl himself. The one last year was due to Manning and Schaub being hurt. Ben was no Pro Bowler last year (Cam Newton. Rookie had a better year). Ben has NEVER had a elite receiver DESPITE playing with Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress, Mike Wallace, Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes and Antonio Brown. Yet Brady makes stars out of Deion Branch, Welker, Gronk. Eli, Plax, Manningham, Cruz, Peyton-Marvin Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Thomas, Decker. Heck Kordell even threw 100 balls to Hines and he sucks.

Go ahead and use the obvious "Well Ben has won 2 Super Bowls" and I will post his stats in those Super Bowls 3 TDS/ 5 TDS. Hardly elite.

How come Ben hasnt had a elite Receiver? The line? Arians? Haley? Tomlin? Shoulder? Foot? The lady in Vegas? Or maybe he puts up average stats because he is an average quarterback? Average meaning Good.

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What points has he made? All he did was ask you for your source?
And all I did was ask him for his. I'm fair

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Also, the line is a common excuse. How was our line when Grimm and Wiz were here? I'd say ABOVE AVERAGE. Who still had a sack problem? BR thats who. Next excuse?

[Steelreal]

Do a breakdown on Ben's stats vs a good defense. For 9 years it has been average or below average. Whats the excuse for that?

[Seven]

Thats right. ESPECIALLY vs a ZONE. Which the Cowboys were in on this play. I just find it funny that BR has NEVER had a receiver who has caught 100 balls. He has NEVER had a receiver who has went to the Probowl. Ben has ONLY one Pro Bowl himself. The one last year was due to Manning and Schaub being hurt. Ben was no Pro Bowler last year (Cam Newton. Rookie had a better year). Ben has NEVER had a elite receiver DESPITE playing with Hines Ward, Plaxico Burress, Mike Wallace, Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes and Antonio Brown. Yet Brady makes stars out of Deion Branch, Welker, Gronk. Eli, Plax, Manningham, Cruz, Peyton-Marvin Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Thomas, Decker. Heck Kordell even threw 100 balls to Hines and he sucks.

Okay, dude, seriously you're a troll right? Almost everything you said here is 100% false. Not even close to being accurate. Wallace went to the pro bowl last year. Ben was the top vote getter for AFC quarterbacks last year.


And all I did was ask him for his. I'm fair

Source for what? He didn't say anything!

[Steelreal]

Do a breakdown on Ben's stats vs a good defense. For 9 years it has been average or below average. Whats the excuse for that?
This is with Wiz, Grimm/Fanaca and the boys.

2004
Ben 295 Att 30 sacks
P.Manning 497 Att 13 sacks
Plummer 521 Att 15 sacks
Favre 540 Att 12 sacks

2005
Ben 261 Atts 23 sacks
P.Manning 453 Atts 17 sacks
C.Palmer 509 Atts 19 sacks
Brady 530 Atts 26 sacks

2006
Ben 469 Atts 46 sacks
P.Manning 557 Atts 14 sacks
Brees 554 Atts 18 sacks
Rivers 467 Atts 27 sacks


What about the line excuse? Our line was EXCELLENT during these years. Again, Ben Roethlisberger is slow to process the information. That is why he runs around like a peacock trying to buy more time to read the D. You dont see the smart quarterbacks doing that. How come?

What will happen when Ben becomes less mobile with age?

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Okay, dude, seriously you're a troll right? Almost everything you said here is 100% false. not even close to being accurate. Wallace went to the pro bowl last year. Ben was the top vote getter for AFC quarterbacks last year.




Source for what? He didn't say anything!

Went to the Pro Bowl due to injuries. I acknowledged that. Is Wallace elite? Did Wallace put up Pro Bowl stats last season? Im a troll? Really? I will match you Steeler Knowledge for Steeler knowledge and NEVER EVER call you a name. Why? Because I have truth on my side. No need to get mad with truth.

[Steelreal]

I'll ask you one simple question Seven. What Defense are the Cowboys in on the Carr Int??

[Seven]

Went to the Pro Bowl due to injuries. I acknowledged that. Is Wallace elite? Did Wallace put up Pro Bowl stats last season? Im a troll? Really? I will match you Steeler Knowledge for Steeler knowledge and NEVER EVER call you a name. Why? Because I have truth on my side. No need to get mad with truth.

I just told you he was the top AFC vote getter. So no, he did not attend due to injuries. Wrong.

You said Ben has never had a pro bowl receiver - not "a receiver with pro bowl numbers". Wrong.

You've already failed to match my "Steeler knowledge" and everyone else's on this board. My guess is you are either thirteen or a troll fan of another team trying to bait me into an argument. That's how ridiculous your statements are. And when proven wrong you change your argument.

[Steelreal]

Now I'm no homer, nor do I hold a bias. So if you ask me does Wallace run the best routes. I wont lie and blame that on Ben. Thats not fair. Wallace DOESNT run the best routes and I"m the one who said Ben needs to GET ON HIM. Everyone said "NO NO Thats not his style". Ok then well then Stay after practice and work with him. WHEN have we ever heard of Ben doing that? I'll admit Wallace doesnt run the best routes. I cant remember a fast guy that does. Howver, Wallace's route running has nothing to do with anything in Pittsburgh. Maybe is Leftwich or Batch were the QB but not with Ben. Leftwich and Batch are anticipatory passers. Ben is not. Ben waits until you 'show open" before he passes anyway, so route running is irrelevant on our team.

[Steelreal]

I just told you he was the top AFC vote getter. So no, he did not attend due to injuries. Wrong.

You said Ben has never had a pro bowl receiver - not "a receiver with pro bowl numbers". Wrong.

You've already failed to match my "Steeler knowledge" and everyone else's on this board. My guess is you are either thirteen or a troll fan of another team trying to bait me into an argument. That's how ridiculous your statements are. And when proven wrong you change your argument.

Ok in my attempt to answer THIRTY GUYS, I left something out. Very easy when debating ONE guy vs 30. So in NINE years Ben has ONE Pro Bowl receiver and TWO Pro Bowl appearances. ELITE? Lol

Again, what Defense were the Cowboys in. I find it odd that you are giving a breakdown but have yet to say what Defense they are in. How come?

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Hines and santonio were both awesome yac guys. Don't ya think it could be trust issue. To throw to a spot you gotta believe the guy will be there. Maybe we can get Sanchez to come over from the jets, he's pretty good at just throwing it where the wr is supposed to be.

Hines a yas guy? Hmm

[NCSteeler]

Now I'm no homer, nor do I hold a bias. So if you ask me does Wallace run the best routes. I wont lie and blame that on Ben. Thats not fair. Wallace DOESNT run the best routes and I"m the one who said Ben needs to GET ON HIM. Everyone said "NO NO Thats not his style". Ok then well then Stay after practice and work with him. WHEN have we ever heard of Ben doing that? I'll admit Wallace doesnt run the best routes. I cant remember a fast guy that does. Howver, Wallace's route running has nothing to do with anything in Pittsburgh. Maybe is Leftwich or Batch were the QB but not with Ben. Leftwich and Batch are anticipatory passers. Ben is not. Ben waits until you 'show open" before he passes anyway, so route running is irrelevant on our team.

If you admit Wallace doesn't run the best routes. How can you blame Ben for not throwing to him before he's open

[Steelreal]

Seven to be a fan of another team, I sure have A LOT of in game Steeler knowledge. Why wasnt I watching my "own team". Do tell?

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If you admit Wallace doesn't run the best routes. How can you blame Ben for not throwing to him before he's open
I dont blame JUST Ben. I blame them BOTH. Now you see the difference between me and the rest of the poster. I dont just blame Ben. I blame Wallace too.

Hower, on that particular pass to Carr. To blame Wallace is WRECKLESS. Simms, Jaws, Aikman and Steve Young blamed Ben. I'll take former NFL qbs words over a Homer washed up concussion riddled Hoge.

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I'm still waiting for the "Breakdown" artist to tell me simply what D the Cowboys were in. How come he is silent?

[Steelreal]

I'll ask you one simple question Seven. What Defense are the Cowboys in on the Carr Int??
18 minutes and couting still no answer. Hmmmmm

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Got real quiet around here lol (Crickets_)

[Steelreal]

All these KNOW IT ALLS and not one of you can help out Seven and tell me what Defense the Cowboys are in? You guys were SOO knowledgeable before, what happened? I even made a couple of mistakes in this thread and acknowledged so. I think its SAFE to say that NONE of you can read defenses and the silence is very telling. Thx for proving what I already KNEW

[Seven]

........................I have yet to see any "Steeler knowledge" from you at all. It doesn't matter what defense I say they were in. I can tell you they were in dime 2 deep man under, or I can tell you they were in 3-4 cover three, or I can tell you they were in the goddamn prevent. And no matter what I say, you will tell me I'm incorrect. So I'm sorry, but I'm not going to get into that with you to save myself from frustration. This examination was about Mike Wallace and his route running capability. Not Dallas's defensive scheme, not Ben Roethlisberger and certainly not about superior "Steelers knowledge". If you can't see how ridiculous your posts are then I can't help you. I've tried to be civil with you and must admit if you are trolling you are pretty good at it because you've managed to get under my skin with incorrect, irrelevent and overall clueless posts everywhere I turn on this board. Again, I'm sorry I'm not an "expert" like you. I'm certain you'll all remind us of that when in fifteen years you return to this forum to tell us how it was Ben's team that put him in Canton and how he had nothing to do with it.

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Honestly, I do not want this thread to get closed. Can we please end this and agree to disagree?

[43Hitman]

All these KNOW IT ALLS and not one of you can help out Seven and tell me what Defense the Cowboys are in? You guys were SOO knowledgeable before, what happened? I even made a couple of mistakes in this thread and acknowledged so. I think its SAFE to say that NONE of you can read defenses and the silence is very telling. Thx for proving what I already KNEW

We just don't believe in feeding trolls.

[X-Terminator]

All these KNOW IT ALLS and not one of you can help out Seven and tell me what Defense the Cowboys are in? You guys were SOO knowledgeable before, what happened? I even made a couple of mistakes in this thread and acknowledged so. I think its SAFE to say that NONE of you can read defenses and the silence is very telling. Thx for proving what I already KNEW

You know what? You are getting really annoying and ruining perfectly good threads with your unending Ben hatred. Even threads that don't have much to do with Ben, you clutter them up with bullshit. Did you ever stop and think that maybe the reason why you get so much resistance is because you keep bludgeoning people over the head with this shit? No, of course not. How about accepting that other fans disagree with you and move on, instead of keeping up your bloviating?

[Steelreal]

........................I have yet to see any "Steeler knowledge" from you at all. It doesn't matter what defense I say they were in. I can tell you they were in dime 2 deep man under, or I can tell you they were in 3-4 cover three, or I can tell you they were in the goddamn prevent. And no matter what I say, you will tell me I'm incorrect. So I'm sorry, but I'm not going to get into that with you to save myself from frustration. This examination was about Mike Wallace and his route running capability. Not Dallas's defensive scheme, not Ben Roethlisberger and certainly not about superior "Steelers knowledge". If you can't see how ridiculous your posts are then I can't help you. I've tried to be civil with you and must admit if you are trolling you are pretty good at it because you've managed to get under my skin with incorrect, irrelevent and overall clueless posts everywhere I turn on this board. Again, I'm sorry I'm not an "expert" like you. I'm certain you'll all remind us of that when in fifteen years you return to this forum to tell us how it was Ben's team that put him in Canton and how he had nothing to do with it.

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Honestly, I do not want this thread to get closed. Can we please end this and agree to disagree?

You are WRONG and thus renders you breakdown invalid. If they were in a cover 2 man (what is this MADDEN?) the corner would have BUMPED Wallace As you see BOTH Corner played off so that lets us know it is NOT a cover 2 man. If you are correct I will tell you you are correct. 3-4?? Why would you say that? Dont THREE men have to be in a down positon to be a 3-4? I know you are trying to be cute by throwing out all of these terms to hide the fact that YOU DONT KNOW. HOW can you give a breakdown when you dont know the defense? You cannot you are NOT qualified to do so so please stop posing.


2nd. Dallas is in an DISGUISED 3-4 Cover 3. You can TELL that it is Cover 3 by the actions of the LB and the corners. BOTH Corners have deep third. The MLBs give away the coverage by going hook to flat. Meaning they guard the button hook in the hole and slide to the flat to take away a comeback. CARR is reading Ben the WHOLE way. His duty is deep third. He reads that Ben is going to throw it and jumps the route.

Ben should have looked OFF Wallace and then threw it and then maybe it would have had a chance. He didnt he stared down the receiver and the Corner broke on it. Bad pass all day.

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We just don't believe in feeding trolls.

Then what stops you from correcting the "Troll" when he is wrong then?? Hmm

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........................I have yet to see any "Steeler knowledge" from you at all. It doesn't matter what defense I say they were in. I can tell you they were in dime 2 deep man under, or I can tell you they were in 3-4 cover three, or I can tell you they were in the goddamn prevent. And no matter what I say, you will tell me I'm incorrect. So I'm sorry, but I'm not going to get into that with you to save myself from frustration. This examination was about Mike Wallace and his route running capability. Not Dallas's defensive scheme, not Ben Roethlisberger and certainly not about superior "Steelers knowledge". If you can't see how ridiculous your posts are then I can't help you. I've tried to be civil with you and must admit if you are trolling you are pretty good at it because you've managed to get under my skin with incorrect, irrelevent and overall clueless posts everywhere I turn on this board. Again, I'm sorry I'm not an "expert" like you. I'm certain you'll all remind us of that when in fifteen years you return to this forum to tell us how it was Ben's team that put him in Canton and how he had nothing to do with it.

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Honestly, I do not want this thread to get closed. Can we please end this and agree to disagree?

Sure. Not a problem. I have no problem with differing opinions. Unlike others. Not meant for you bro

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You know what? You are getting really annoying and ruining perfectly good threads with your unending Ben hatred. Even threads that don't have much to do with Ben, you clutter them up with bullshit. Did you ever stop and think that maybe the reason why you get so much resistance is because you keep bludgeoning people over the head with this shit? No, of course not. How about accepting that other fans disagree with you and move on, instead of keeping up your bloviating?

I get much resistance because nobody wants to believe that Ben makes errors. I point out and prove those errors and most dont like it. If I posted 1000 times that Tomlin was a !@##$@#@@ or Arians suck etc. Or Wallace sucks. Would you have a problem with it?

[Seven]

You are WRONG and thus renders you breakdown invalid. If they were in a cover 2 man (what is this MADDEN?) the corner would have BUMPED Wallace As you see BOTH Corner played off so that lets us know it is NOT a cover 2 man. If you are correct I will tell you you are correct. 3-4?? Why would you say that? Dont THREE men have to be in a down positon to be a 3-4? I know you are trying to be cute by throwing out all of these terms to hide the fact that YOU DONT KNOW. HOW can you give a breakdown when you dont know the defense? You cannot you are NOT qualified to do so so please stop posing.


2nd. Dallas is in an DISGUISED 3-4 Cover 3. You can TELL that it is Cover 3 by the actions of the LB and the corners. BOTH Corners have deep third. The MLBs give away the coverage by going hook to flat. Meaning they guard the button hook in the hole and slide to the flat to take away a comeback. CARR is reading Ben the WHOLE way. His duty is deep third. He reads that Ben is going to throw it and jumps the route.

Ben should have looked OFF Wallace and then threw it and then maybe it would have had a chance. He didnt he stared down the receiver and the Corner broke on it. Bad pass all day.

I'm sorry, I see the error in my ways now. You are right. About everything - really. My football knowledge is really poor, I know that everyone can tell that from my posts so I use terms that I think will sound good. I hope that someday I can be as smart about the Steelers and football as you are. But for now, can I just have my little thread where I pretend to know what I'm talking about? You don't want to mingle with us mere fans anyway, right? I'm not being sarcastic man, you should really be talking to coaches. I think there is a good thread going on talking about Ben right now, and the guys posting there are a lot smarter than me, so why not post in that thread? You've clearly vanquished me here. Good discussion! We will do it again sometime. :)

[Animal Mother]

Man I really can't stand when people try to sound important by CAPITALIZING words in their sentences because all it does is ANNOY the shit out of me.

[Steelreal]

I'm sorry, I see the error in my ways now. You are right. About everything - really. My football knowledge is really poor, I know that everyone can tell that from my posts so I use terms that I think will sound good. I hope that someday I can be as smart about the Steelers and football as you are. But for now, can I just have my little thread where I pretend to know what I'm talking about? You don't want to mingle with us mere fans anyway, right? I'm not being sarcastic man, you should really be talking to coaches. I think there is a good thread going on talking about ben right now, and the guys posting there are a lot smarter than me, so why not post in that thread? You've clearly vanquished me here. Good discussion! We will do it again sometime. :)

I know you are being sarcastic but you really shouldnt break down still shots. Still shots are only used to show the structure or the skeleton of the Defense, Thats it. Coaches watch tape (film) and evaluate from that. I have not seen ONE quarterback guru attribute that errant pass to Wallace. Thats just absurd. You should have seen Hoge defending Bens actions when he got in trouble. Hoge is a close friend of his and why HE got the 1st interview when Ben decided to speak. Its like Stephen A. interviewing Vick. Will he really ask all the tough questions? He wont, he has a bias.

- - - Updated - - -


Man I really can't stand when people try to sound important by CAPITALIZING words in their sentences because all it does is ANNOY the shit out of me.

Caps for EMPHASIS, not yelliong or importance.

[X-Terminator]

I get much resistance because nobody wants to believe that Ben makes errors. I point out and prove those errors and most dont like it. If I posted 1000 times that Tomlin was a !@##$@#@@ or Arians suck etc. Or Wallace sucks. Would you have a problem with it?

Yes I would, actually. The best thing to ever happen to this board was Arians moving on, because the board was no longer cluttered with a billion hate threads/posts about him. No different than you're doing right now. Actually, come to think of it, it was never this bad. I mean, EVERY FUCKING THREAD turns into a "I hate Ben" thread with you. The shit got old a long time ago. You have stirred up more shit in the past week than the anti-Arians fans did in the 31 months this forum has been live, which leads me to believe you have some kind of personal axe to grind with Ben, or you're a troll. I'm leaning toward the latter.

[Seven]

I know you are being sarcastic but you really shouldnt break down still shots. Still shots are only used to show the structure or the skeleton of the Defense, Thats it. Coaches watch tape (film) and evaluate from that. I have not seen ONE quarterback guru attribute that errant pass to Wallace. Thats just absurd. You should have seen Hoge defending Bens actions when he got in trouble. Hoge is a close friend of his and why HE got the 1st interview when Ben decided to speak. Its like Stephen A. interviewing Vick. Will he really ask all the tough questions? He wont, he has a bias.

- - - Updated - - -



Caps for EMPHASIS, not yelliong or importance.


Again, you are correct. It's not like I used screen shots from the all-22 coaches film or anything :coffee:

[Steelreal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVphiMBbGaM

At the 2:17 mark you can see how Brady does the same thing that Ben did. Only difference is that he held the corner and LB with his eyes and bought time for his RB to get out in the flats. Textbook way of holding the defense and extending the play with YOUR EYES.

- - - Updated - - -


Again, you are correct. It's not like I used screen shots from the all-22 coaches film or anything :coffee:

Screen shots are used on the sideline because film/tape is not available. However, once they are available then stillshots go in the trash

- - - Updated - - -


Yes I would, actually. The best thing to ever happen to this board was Arians moving on, because the board was no longer cluttered with a billion hate threads/posts about him. No different than you're doing right now. Actually, come to think of it, it was never this bad. I mean, EVERY FUCKING THREAD turns into a "I hate Ben" thread with you. The shit got old a long time ago. You have stirred up more shit in the past week than the anti-Arians fans did in the 31 months this forum has been live, which leads me to believe you have some kind of personal axe to grind with Ben, or you're a troll. I'm leaning toward the latter.

Those that hated Arians are/were wrong. He is having success with a rookie. He is in the playoffs, Ben isnt. Whos the problem? Duuuuuuuuuh

[Seven]

Screen shots are used on the sideline because film/tape is not available. However, once they are available then stillshots go in the trash

I HAVE THE COACHES FILM. I REPEAT: THOSE WERE SCREEN SHOTS FROM THE ALL-22 COACHES FILM WHICH I OWN. THEY ARE NOT STILL SHOTS. I AM USING CAPS FOR EMPHASIS.

[43Hitman]

I HAVE THE COACHES FILM. I REPEAT: THOSE WERE SCREEN SHOTS FROM THE ALL-22 COACHES FILM WHICH I OWN. THEY ARE NOT STILL SHOTS. I AM USING CAPS FOR EMPHASIS.

lmao. pwned

[Seven]

IT HAS BEEN 18 MINUTES SINCE WE HAVE GOTTEN A RESPONSE EVERYONE!

[fansince'76]

IT HAS BEEN 18 MINUTES SINCE WE HAVE GOTTEN A RESPONSE EVERYONE!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Psycho Ward 86]

:pop2:

[Seven]

Thanks for killing a perfectly good thread, asshole. :coffee:

- - - Updated - - -

(Please excuse the violation of the COC. It's extremely frustating to see, in my opinion, the most reasonable discussion we've had on Wallace in quite some time go down in flames like that. Ugh.)

[43Hitman]

Thanks for killing a perfectly good thread, asshole.

- - - Updated - - -

(Please excuse the violation of the COC. It's extremely frustating to see, in my opinion, the most reasonable discussion we're had on Wallace in quite some time go down in flames like that. Ugh.)

I know man, its a damn shame.

[LLT]

All these KNOW IT ALLS and not one of you can help out Seven and tell me what Defense the Cowboys are in? You guys were SOO knowledgeable before, what happened? Ievenmade a couple of mistakes in this thread and acknowledged so. I think its SAFE to say that NONE of you can read defenses and the silence is very telling. Thx for proving what I already KNEW


You have no idea what defense they were. running.

You claimed the cowboys had bracket coverage on Wallace during that interception , even though there was no one playing under.

Unless you still want to claim that a linebacker playing in the middle of the field....20 yards from the receiver ...was the dedicated man playing low.

Better yet....I'm hoping you claim they were playing in and out.....even though Carr played high.....and they were playing the sideline.

Don't put yourself up as some expert .... demanding others to name a defensive scheme....when
own record in identifying them....is pretty sketchy.

[LLT]

Please provide links for all of your points. I'll wait

What?

I asked you to back up your "facts" with a link.....and now you want me to provide a link for that statement?

Are you drunk?

Worst troll ever.

[Steelreal]

I HAVE THE COACHES FILM. I REPEAT: THOSE WERE SCREEN SHOTS FROM THE ALL-22 COACHES FILM WHICH I OWN. THEY ARE NOT STILL SHOTS. I AM USING CAPS FOR EMPHASIS.
Screenshots ARE Still shots sir.

[Seven]

Screenshots ARE Still shots sir.

If you plan on continuing to hijack this thread I NEED a shot.

- - - Updated - - -

I bet this guys name is Tim.

[Steelreal]

You have no idea what defense they were. running.

You claimed the cowboys had bracket coverage on Wallace during that interception , even though there was no one playing under.

Unless you still want to claim that a linebacker playing in the middle of the field....20 yards from the receiver ...was the dedicated man playing low.

Better yet....I'm hoping you claim they were playing in and out.....even though Carr played high.....and they were playing the sideline.

Don't put yourself up as some expert .... demanding others to name a defensive scheme....when
own record in identifying them....is pretty sketchy.

There is NO LB underneath taking away the hook? There is no LB RIGHT BY Wallace? LB has him underneath and Carr has him DEEP. This is described as BRACKET coverage of a Cover 3. I described precisely what they did.Why are you mad? #55 is right underneath Wallace. Carr is deep. This is not a bracket? Thx for proving you are a novice lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF-PRJBo9rc

[Seven]

There is NO LB underneath taking away the hook? There is no LB RIGHT BY Wallace? LB has him underneath and Carr has him DEEP. This is described as BRACKET coverage of a Cover 3. I described precisely what they did.Why are you mad? #55 is right underneath Wallace. Carr is deep. This is not a bracket? Thx for proving you are a novice lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF-PRJBo9rc

What are you SMOKING. By the way, this is useless as it is not the coaches film. Didn't you know there is something called coaches film which shows you all 22 players on the field? You must be a novice.

[Steelreal]

Last night I got into a debate with another user about Mike Wallace's route running ability. I used an example from the Dallas game to support the idea that it can, at times, be very poor. I had some time on my hands and thought both sides had good points about the level of Wallace's skill at running patterns. So I decided to pick a random game (ended up being week 8 vs. Redskins) and evaluate the way Wallace ran. The following is some of what I found.

All of these are simply how I personally see it and are subject to disagreement. All of these plays were chosen at random prior to me watching them. I went into this with a completely open mind.

I'll start with the route I looked at from Dallas.

http://s1.postimage.org/cklbcmupr/Wallace_Out_Route.jpg

This was the snap in overtime where Ben threw the interception.

- Ten yard out was the intended route (others have said they believe it was a 12 - 15 yard out).

- Wallace rounded off the route instead of dropping into a clean break.

- Sloppy route tipped off Brandon Carr who jumped in front of Wallace and made the interception.

http://s1.postimage.org/eufwu61a7/Wallaceroute1.jpg

- Outside (delayed) hitch.

- Route ran very well.

- Nice catch on poorly thrown pass.

http://s1.postimage.org/r97a88i67/Wallaceroute2.jpg

- Crossing pattern.

- Focused too much on getting the ball in his hands instead of running the route, but it wasn't horrible.

- Made the catch with a defender closing in, but the gain probably should have been greater than it was.

http://s13.postimage.org/4179etzzb/Wallaceroute3.jpg

- Looks like this was supposed to be a go.

- Got a poor start. I think he was expectating a jam.

- Couldn't get seperation.

- Ben began scrambling and Wallace turned around and just stopped instead of attempting to come back towards the QB. Heath ended up making a reception about five yards under him. Very poor effort here. Once Ben had to improvise Wallace gave up. That's the difference between him and a guy like Santonio Holmes in my opinion.

http://s14.postimage.org/fbw6lmx8h/Wallaceroute4.jpg

- Fifteen yard deep in.

- Like the out route posted earlier, he rounds this off to a point that is almost laughable. Didn't drop his hips at all when he broke - simply turned standing straight up. Lucky there wasn't a defender in position to pick this one off.

- Did an awesome job holding on to the ball after taking a pretty big hit.

http://s9.postimage.org/r9qrllhj3/Wallaceroute5.jpg

- This in route was much better.

- Ben never looked his way.

- Still not the prototypical deep in, ran it out more like a post - but he actually cut into his break here instead of just turning his body.

http://s2.postimage.org/57yn0eezd/Wallaceroute6.jpg

- Wallace ran... well I don't really know. Looked like some sort of hitch but he honestly just jogged to the spot and turned around.

- Ben attempted to throw it where only Wallace could get it as there was a defender right over top of him. It fell incomplete. Wallace made a good effort to make the catch but in my opinion if he had simply run out the route better he wouldn't have had to dive for the pass as he would have been wide open.

- I highlighted Antonio Brown on this play to point out how superior he is at running routes. He ran a textbook post on this snap. Break was great and he ran the play out even after Ben had thrown the ball. And that quality has been consistent from him this entire game. His routes are fantastic. If only we could give his quick feet to Wallace. That player would be unstoppable.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion: I realize this is a small sample size. But just from these randomly chosen snaps (all occured in the first half of the Redskins game, on random drives) you can already see that Mike Wallace is letting much of his talent go to waste. I personally believe he is not focused much of the time - which he has himself admitted. When the game starts out he is much more enthusiastic than he is as the contest goes on. It seems like once he hasn't caught a pass in a while he just losses interest. And you know what? I don't think he does it on purpose. That is to say I don't think he just flat out thinks "if I'm not going to be part of the gameplan I'm not going to try". I just think he has a short attention span. And I think that might account for some of the times that Ben tries to force balls to him when he clearly isn't open. That happened several times over the course of the first half of the game. I think Ben might be trying to get him involved because he realizes otherwise Wallace is going to get careless. After studying him I'm actually less mad at the dude. Because I don't think he is being malicious when he gives up on plays, I just don't think he likes football that much. I think he likes catching the ball, though. And I think a change of scenery might make this guy a great receiver. If he goes somewhere where he can be a true focal point of the offense - like Washington with Griffin's awesome deep passing game - I think he becomes a pro bowler again. In Todd Haley's offense though, I just don't see it happening.

I hope we got something out of this. I would love to hear some thoughts on what I've said here (hopefully reasonable thoughts). I would love for you guys to examine more snaps of Wallace and show me why I'm wrong or tell me if you agree with me. If anyone does that, I have a challenge for you. I noticed a pretty big tell from him when he knew the play was a called run. Let me know if anyone finds it. :eyebrows:

This is the OP. It mentions WALLACE, CARR, BEN AND OTHERS. Do explain HOW I am hijacking. Cant have it both ways. You dont know defenses like Ben and I EXPOSED YOU.

[Seven]

I guarantee LLT has forgotten more about football than you'll ever know.

[Steelreal]

I guarantee LLT has forgotten more about football than you'll ever know.

Tell LLT to step up and we will see. I will promise not to get mad. Lets go. Bet he will BAN me when I expose him

- - - Updated - - -


What are you SMOKING. By the way, this is useless as it is not the coaches film. Didn't you know there is something called coaches film which shows you all 22 players on the field? You must be a novice.
ALSO known as a Still shot. Sigh

[Steelreal]

What are you SMOKING. By the way, this is useless as it is not the coaches film. Didn't you know there is something called coaches film which shows you all 22 players on the field? You must be a novice.


Its useless to a novice. However, to a person of understanding he would read the drops. HOW ELSE DO YOU THINK A QB reads a defense? He READS THE DROPS. Guys like YOU think that a quarterback throws to whos open. Reread your OP. NO quarterback in the NFL throws to WHO is open. COVERAGE dictates where the ball goes and THAT'S why Ben as a 9 year vet sounded STUPID calling out his OC for not calling plays to Heath.

Sure you call plays to isolate matchups but an OC nevers calls a play specifically where he says "Throw to Heath". He might call a play where Heath is the PRIMARY receiver but a good quarterback has a Plan B, IF the Defense takes the primary receiver away from him.

- - - Updated - - -


Can't we solve this whole thing by throwing this into the mix http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/17/playing-for-todd-haley-in-k-c-helped-brandon-carr-get-crucial-pick/

I am relatively new here and wouldn't want to clutter up a slap-fight with pesky things like facts...

Bottom line Carr gambled, jumped the route, and made the pick. They pay the other guys too.


Thats EXACTLY what happened. And WHY did he jump the route? Because BEN STARED HIM DOWN. Simple.

[Seven]

Tell LLT to step up and we will see. I will promise not to get mad. Lets go. Bet he will BAN me when I expose him

- - - Updated - - -


ALSO known as a Still shot. Sigh

What THE FUCK are you talking about? Coaches film is not a "still shot".

Mods, can we please do something about this guy? He is CLEARLY a troll. I'm getting sick and tired of every thread getting turned into three pages of "Ben sucks" with NO basis in fact whatsoever backing it up. It would be one thing if he had even laughable opinions that he believed in, but the lack of any real points completely expose him as a troll in my mind. This guy knows NOTHING about football. I'm having a hard time holding back at this point.

- - - Updated - - -


Guys like YOU think that a quarterback throws to whos open. NO quarterback in the NFL throws to WHO is open.

Best quote EVER.

[Steelreal]

He is calling the MOD SQUAD because he is getting exposed as a Novice. Wallace isnt the same as Fitz but they ARE BOTH Wrs. Do you know UNDERSTAND still shots and coaches film?

WHATEVER it is YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS doing ANY breakdowns without FIRST knowing the coverage of the Defense. Second you need to know the offensive scheme/philosophy. Meaning you would have to know the design of the play (what was intended), what were the assignments. Without that BASIC knowledge you are clueless as to what is going on. Its like trying to tell me what is said in the huddle and you arent even in the huddle Leave the breakdowns for the EXPERTS. You want me BANNED because I exposed you for being a novice. Sorry

[43Hitman]

He is calling the MOD SQUAD because he is getting exposed as a Novice. Wallace isnt the same as Fitz but they ARE BOTH Wrs. Do you know UNDERSTAND still shots and coaches film?

WHATEVER it is YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS doing ANY breakdowns without FIRST knowing the coverage of the Defense. Second you need to know the offensive scheme/philosophy. Meaning you would have to know the design of the play (what was intended), what were the assignments. Without that BASIC knowledge you are clueless as to what is going on. Its like trying to tell me what is said in the huddle and you arent even in the huddle Leave the breakdowns for the EXPERTS. You want me BANNED because I exposed you for being a novice. Sorry

:pointlaugh::ban::whoo: SEEYA SCRUB! :chuckle: Its like Christmas all over again. Thank-you mods, I'll definitely be donating to the site again very soon.

[bayz101]

Jeebus. Glad that dude is gone. :chuckle:

Nothing wrong with having a negative opinion of Ben, but every thread he ventured into ended up being derailed.

[fansince'76]

:pointlaugh::ban::whoo: SEEYA SCRUB! :chuckle: Its like Christmas all over again. Thank-you mods, I'll definitely be donating to the site again very soon.

Thanks to Chidi for sniffing him out as "Scalaid6" - he's trolled a number of boards in the exact same manner, but myself and X-T never made the connection. I banned him over at SF a few years ago for the same thing. Exact same M.O.: http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=68&f=1899&t=6763068&p=2

[bayz101]

Now he's sending forum feedback. :heh:

[Seven]

Admins, mods and Chidi: from the bottom of my heart. Thank you.

[fansince'76]

Now he's sending forum feedback. :heh:

Yeah, he thinks we booted him because "WE'RE MAD. LOL."

:lol:

[stillers4me]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, everybody!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/sueincinci/anchorman.gif

[Chidi29]

Lol, he was a persona that was tough to forget when he trolled the ESPN Steelers' message boards. And there really weren't any mods to ever deal with him. His claim is that he's a former NFL QB (journeyman, ho-hum career) that I guess gives him an inflated sense of self worth.

[fansince'76]

Lol, he was a persona that was tough to forget when he trolled the ESPN Steelers' message boards. And there really weren't any mods to ever deal with him. His claim is that he's a former NFL QB (journeyman, ho-hum career) that I guess gives him an inflated sense of self worth.

http://i2.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/lens15116501_1289065581THE_ARMCHAIR_QB_-_Profess

:chuckle:

[Seven]

Lol, he was a persona that was tough to forget when he trolled the ESPN Steelers' message boards. And there really weren't any mods to ever deal with him. His claim is that he's a former NFL QB (journeyman, ho-hum career) that I guess gives him an inflated sense of self worth.

LOL! I'm sure it obviously isn't, but I hope that's true. That would be absolutely hilarious. Wonder who it is. Gus Frerotte? Cleo Lemon? J.T. O'Sullivan? :chuckle:

I would say Dante Culpepper is a darkhorse expect for the fact that he has too big an ego to refer to himself as a "journeyman" :chuckle:

[Seven]

This is its own thread now? Absolutely excellent. The bastard child of my OP.

[Count Steeler]

Universe, I have removed the offending posts from Steelreal and the responses to this thread, called the Wallace Thread Derailment.

Seven did too much work to be thrown out, so I cleaned up his other thread of the Wallace Route Running. Thanks to everyone for their patience.

- - - Updated - - -


This is its own thread now? Absolutely excellent. The bastard child of my OP.

I just did not want all your hard work to go to waste. Thanks for your patience.

[Chidi29]

LOL! I'm sure it obviously isn't, but I hope that's true. That would be absolutely hilarious. Wonder who it is. Gus Frerotte? Cleo Lemon? J.T. O'Sullivan? :chuckle:

I would say Dante Culpepper is a darkhorse expect for the fact that he has too big an ego to refer to himself as a "journeyman" :chuckle:

Reading his posts, I wanted to bang my head off something. So I kinda felt like Frerotte. :chuckle:



Sorry...that was really bad.

But his claim was that he's Erik Wilhelm, a 3rd round pick of the Bengals in '89 who had more INTs (6) than TDs (5) in his career.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilhEr00.htm

[Craic]

The funny thing is, the other day I was thinking to myself, this site doesn't get that many trolls.

Hmm. Oops! :chuckle:

[Chidi29]

The funny thing is, the other day I was thinking to myself, this site doesn't get that many trolls.

Hmm. Oops! :chuckle:

And you said the other day you were thinking how Heath never gets hurt.

There's only one solution Preacher...STOP THINKING!

*Caps for emphasis

[tube517]

:rofl2:

[Craic]

And you said the other day you were thinking how Heath never gets hurt.

There's only one solution Preacher...STOP THINKING!

*Caps for emphasis

:buttkick:

:chuckle:

[Shoes]

You know what? You are getting really annoying and ruining perfectly good threads with your unending Ben hatred. Even threads that don't have much to do with Ben, you clutter them up with bullshit. Did you ever stop and think that maybe the reason why you get so much resistance is because you keep bludgeoning people over the head with this shit? No, of course not. How about accepting that other fans disagree with you and move on, instead of keeping up your bloviating?


Now how can anyone not love X-T....... :chuckle:

- - - Updated - - -

Dang Chidi you need to change you name to Columbo....good sniffer young man!!!

[salamander]

I always miss the good stuff. :chuckle:

[zulater]

I always miss the good stuff. :chuckle:


Yeah I missed it too. Damn it. :chuckle:

I called it first I think though. I had him pegged about 200 posts ago. :troll:

[Count Steeler]

But his claim was that he's Erik Wilhelm, a 3rd round pick of the Bengals in '89 who had more INTs (6) than TDs (5) in his career.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilhEr00.htm

Well he must have been trying to mask himself here, because he claimed to be 6'7" and played at BYU.


Dude I'm 6'7 and played at Brigham Young. STONE, WALLACE AND BEN are short to me. Sheeesh
My point was Stone SUCKS, Wallace doesnt suck, he is just an underachiever and lazy.

If you think Stone and Wallace are similar then more power to you. I dont think they play anything alike and Wallace was never a Rb nor could he be.

[Chidi29]

I dunno, it could be someone else. But the way they typed and presented themselves are eerily similar.

Maybe the guy just goes around to random message boards pretending to be obscure quarterbacks...who knows.

[Count Steeler]

I dunno, it could be someone else. But the way they typed and presented themselves are eerily similar.

Maybe the guy just goes around to random message boards pretending to be obscure quarterbacks...who knows.

That is likely. We will have to keep our eyes open in case he re-emerges.

[43Hitman]

Yeah I missed it too. Damn it. :chuckle:

I called it first I think though. I had him pegged about 200 posts ago. :troll:

you and me both brother.

[Craic]

Yeah I missed it too. Damn it. :chuckle:

I called it first I think though. I had him pegged about 200 posts ago. :troll:

No idea why but speaking of Trolls reminded me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nyjLNt3EMTE#!

[7SteelGal43]

yeah, I'm pretty sure Wallace has a lot to complain about. I mean, Ben is so inept that he actually makes Wallace drops pass after pass, regardless how well or bad the ball is thrown.







:sarcasm: just so there's no doubt.

[X-Terminator]

Ah, it's like we sprayed the place with Oust. Smells SO MUCH BETTER in here now that the professional asshole troll has been sent to the Internet Recycle Bin. Good job, zulater and Chidi for sniffing him out. I'm an idiot for not putting the pieces together sooner...probably because his stint at SF lasted all of 5 days and my mind blocked it out.

[LLT]

Reading his posts, I wanted to bang my head off something. So I kinda felt like Frerotte. :chuckle:



Sorry...that was really bad.

But his claim was that he's Erik Wilhelm, a 3rd round pick of the Bengals in '89 who had more INTs (6) than TDs (5) in his career.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilhEr00.htm


I have no doubt that he is the same troll....but if he really was a QB in the NFL he would know the difference between Bracket coverage and simple zone coverage.

Besides...he claimed to be 6'7 and Eric Wilhelm was 6'3....and as Chidi pointed out....he also claimed to have played at BYU, when Eric Wilhelm played at Oregon State.

I think he is as much of a former Quarterback/football expert....as Tim lumber was a journalist

[Craic]

I have no doubt that he is the same troll....but if he really was a QB in the NFL he would know the difference between Bracket coverage and simple zone coverage.

Besides...he claimed to be 6'7 and Eric Wilhelm was 6'3.

Maybe not . . . could that be why he had 6 INT's and only 5 TD's in a short lived career? :chuckle:

[LLT]

Maybe not . . . could that be why he had 6 INT's and only 5 TD's in a short lived career? :chuckle:

:lol:

[LLT]

For the record.....If stealreal truly understood cover three, he would notice that the two linebackers cheat to the side away from the strong safety, just as they are supposed to, to cover the "hole". Albright did not "read" Bens eyes...nor was he designed to take the under on bracket coverage. He did his drop exactly the way a LBer is supposed. He was going in Wallaces direction but NOWHERE near being able to take the under away from the play.

Carr was supposed to take the back 1/3 on the left side (the defenses left side) but he gambled and moved up...almost into the flat. That should have been an indication to Wallace that the back 1/3 was clear and he could have burned Carr deep.

Also...for an "expert"...I find it funny that he referred to the "defensive ends" on the play when it was Ware and Spencer on the outside rush...not the DE's.

[pepsyman1]

Glad you guys got rid of him

[NCSteeler]

I thought maybe he was Jeremy from sf . I never met a poster that hated Ben more. This thread has been entertaining none the less

[fansince'76]

I thought maybe he was Jeremy from sf . I never met a poster that Ben more. This thread has been entertaining none the less

I wonder if Steelreal also has a cousin with an eleven-year-old son that Ben dissed for an autograph because he didn't have boobs?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Craic]

I wonder if Steelreal also has a cousin with an eleven-year-old son that Ben dissed for an autograph because he didn't have boobs?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Reminds me of this:
starts at 1:13:36

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxsGzzOXACs

[Steeldude]

Banned?

[LLT]

Banned?

Oh yes...and long past due.

[Bluecoat96]

I thought maybe he was Jeremy from sf . I never met a poster that hated Ben more. This thread has been entertaining none the less

That's exactly what I was thinking. If he would have mentioned something about Ben not signing autographs because of the person not having boobs, I wouldn't have been surprised.

[Seven]

For the record.....If stealreal truly understood cover three, he would notice that the two linebackers cheat to the side away from the strong safety, just as they are supposed to, to cover the "hole". Albright did not "read" Bens eyes...nor was he designed to take the under on bracket coverage. He did his drop exactly the way a LBer is supposed. He was going in Wallaces direction but NOWHERE near being able to take the under away from the play.

Carr was supposed to take the back 1/3 on the left side (the defenses left side) but he gambled and moved up...almost into the flat. That should have been an indication to Wallace that the back 1/3 was clear and he could have burned Carr deep.

Also...for an "expert"...I find it funny that he referred to the "defensive ends" on the play when it was Ware and Spencer on the outside rush...not the DE's.

:nod:

No matter what I told him he was going to tell me I was wrong.

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Yeah I missed it too. Damn it. :chuckle:

I called it first I think though. I had him pegged about 200 posts ago. :troll:

Yeah. You called it out to me forever ago. I thought he was legit at first. What kind of asshole trolls that hard? He spent hours on here today.

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I dunno, it could be someone else. But the way they typed and presented themselves are eerily similar.

Maybe the guy just goes around to random message boards pretending to be obscure quarterbacks...who knows.

No, it was definitely the same guy. Scalaid6 or whatever used CAPS FOR EMPHASIS too :chuckle:

[Seven]

That is likely. We will have to keep our eyes open in case he re-emerges.

If he does re-emerge, there will be several other users besides Chidi who will recognize him immediately now. I know I sure as hell would. He'll last all of about three posts before he is gone unless he changes his "act" significantly next time.

[SteelerEmpire]

Its been no secret for years that Ben does not connect accurately on the "majority" of deep bombs to Wallace. There are several factors that must be considered: bad pass, Wallace changing directions 'after' the ball is thrown, wind, the advanced speed of Wallace being hard to finger by "any" QB. But whatever the reason (being it Ben's fault OR Wallace's fault) that issue should have BEEN worked out BY NOW !
I do know that the "majority" of the time Wallace has to stop and come back for the ball, so that's Ben's fault. In the last game vs. the Bengals when Ben over-threw Wallace for a sure TD... Ben's fault. BUT there have been several passes in which Wallace could have fought for the ball more (like Swann and Stallworth did often) or adjusted his route to run under a ball that was thrown off to the side.
Now if next season Wallace ends up in Denver (Manning) or New England (Brady) or even Washington (RG3) <these guys are known for accurate deep passing> and begins burning up the league with those big plays, then that would be the best way to know "for sure" if there is some kind of "terminal"/ "cannot be fixed" passing issue with Ben. But like I said, no matter who's fault, this issue should have been resolved BY NOW ! It's been going on for years !!!

[BlastFurnace]

Its been no secret for years that Ben does not connect accurately on the "majority" of deep bombs to Wallace. There are several factors that must be considered: bad pass, Wallace changing directions 'after' the ball is thrown, wind, the advanced speed of Wallace being hard to finger by "any" QB. But whatever the reason (being it Ben's fault OR Wallace's fault) that issue should have BEEN worked out BY NOW !
I do know that the "majority" of the time Wallace has to stop and come back for the ball, so that's Ben's fault. In the last game vs. the Bengals when Ben over-threw Wallace for a sure TD... Ben's fault. BUT there have been several passes in which Wallace could have fought for the ball more (like Swann and Stallworth did often) or adjusted his route to run under a ball that was thrown off to the side.
Now if next season Wallace ends up in Denver (Manning) or New England (Brady) or even Washington (RG3) <these guys are known for accurate deep passing> and begins burning up the league with those big plays, then that would be the best way to know "for sure" if there is some kind of "terminal"/ "cannot be fixed" passing issue with Ben. But like I said, no matter who's fault, this issue should have been resolved BY NOW ! It's been going on for years !!!

Just a theory...but do you think that Wallace is just difficult to hit on deep patterns because of his speed?

[SteelerEmpire]

Just a theory...but do you think that Wallace is just difficult to hit on deep patterns because of his speed?

I've heard over the years here and there that it's difficult to throw to speed receivers. I believe I've even heard Ben say he has problems with Wallace due to his speed.

If you break it down to physics we may find some "approximate" understanding of this problem.
They say top track sprinters can move close to 30 mph; lets be conservative and say 25 mph. A well thrown football is traveling about 45 mph AS SOON AS it leaves the QB's hand. If you factor in the
1- "downward" pull of gravity, the
2- "drag" of the air the ball is traveling through, and the
3- longer "distance" the ball is traveling on a deep type "Ben-to-Wallace" pass (the longer the ball is in the air, the more time the negative forces of gravity and air resistance has to "slow down" the ball) then by the time the ball gets within the vicinity of Wallace, Wallace MAY be moving faster than the ball !!!
Especially in a stadium without a dome (more windy) and in colder weather (all projectiles travel shorter distance in "cold" weather).

So that COULD be the reason why a "speed-receiver" is a double edged sword that might be nearly impossible to get around.

[smokin3000gt]

Holy shit am I glad that fucking idiot is gone!

[BlastFurnace]

I've heard over the years here and there that it's difficult to throw to speed receivers. I believe I've even heard Ben say he has problems with Wallace due to his speed.

If you break it down to physics we may find some "approximate" understanding of this problem.
They say top track sprinters can move close to 30 mph; lets be conservative and say 25 mph. A well thrown football is traveling about 45 mph AS SOON AS it leaves the QB's hand. If you factor in the
1- "downward" pull of gravity, the
2- "drag" of the air the ball is traveling through, and the
3- longer "distance" the ball is traveling on a deep type "Ben-to-Wallace" pass (the longer the ball is in the air, the more time the negative forces of gravity and air resistance has to "slow down" the ball) then by the time the ball gets within the vicinity of Wallace, Wallace MAY be moving faster than the ball !!!
Especially in a stadium without a dome (more windy) and in colder weather (all projectiles travel shorter distance in "cold" weather).

So that COULD be the reason why a "speed-receiver" is a double edged sword that might be nearly impossible to get around.

Great response!!! Very interesting!

LOL...What are you, a Physics major?

[smokin3000gt]

edit:

I mean...

HOLY SHIT am I GLAD that FUCKING IDIOT is GONE.

(you know, for emphasis)