Mike Wallace Route Running

[Seven]

Last night I got into a debate with another user about Mike Wallace's route running ability. I used an example from the Dallas game to support the idea that it can, at times, be very poor. I had some time on my hands and thought both sides had good points about the level of Wallace's skill at running patterns. So I decided to pick a random game (ended up being week 8 vs. Redskins) and evaluate the way Wallace ran. The following is some of what I found.

All of these are simply how I personally see it and are subject to disagreement. All of these plays were chosen at random prior to me watching them. I went into this with a completely open mind.

I'll start with the route I looked at from Dallas.

http://s1.postimage.org/cklbcmupr/Wallace_Out_Route.jpg

This was the snap in overtime where Ben threw the interception.

- Ten yard out was the intended route (others have said they believe it was a 12 - 15 yard out).

- Wallace rounded off the route instead of dropping into a clean break.

- Sloppy route tipped off Brandon Carr who jumped in front of Wallace and made the interception.

http://s1.postimage.org/eufwu61a7/Wallaceroute1.jpg

- Outside (delayed) hitch.

- Route ran very well.

- Nice catch on poorly thrown pass.

http://s1.postimage.org/r97a88i67/Wallaceroute2.jpg

- Crossing pattern.

- Focused too much on getting the ball in his hands instead of running the route, but it wasn't horrible.

- Made the catch with a defender closing in, but the gain probably should have been greater than it was.

http://s13.postimage.org/4179etzzb/Wallaceroute3.jpg

- Looks like this was supposed to be a go.

- Got a poor start. I think he was expectating a jam.

- Couldn't get seperation.

- Ben began scrambling and Wallace turned around and just stopped instead of attempting to come back towards the QB. Heath ended up making a reception about five yards under him. Very poor effort here. Once Ben had to improvise Wallace gave up. That's the difference between him and a guy like Santonio Holmes in my opinion.

http://s14.postimage.org/fbw6lmx8h/Wallaceroute4.jpg

- Fifteen yard deep in.

- Like the out route posted earlier, he rounds this off to a point that is almost laughable. Didn't drop his hips at all when he broke - simply turned standing straight up. Lucky there wasn't a defender in position to pick this one off.

- Did an awesome job holding on to the ball after taking a pretty big hit.

http://s9.postimage.org/r9qrllhj3/Wallaceroute5.jpg

- This in route was much better.

- Ben never looked his way.

- Still not the prototypical deep in, ran it out more like a post - but he actually cut into his break here instead of just turning his body.

http://s2.postimage.org/57yn0eezd/Wallaceroute6.jpg

- Wallace ran... well I don't really know. Looked like some sort of hitch but he honestly just jogged to the spot and turned around.

- Ben attempted to throw it where only Wallace could get it as there was a defender right over top of him. It fell incomplete. Wallace made a good effort to make the catch but in my opinion if he had simply run out the route better he wouldn't have had to dive for the pass as he would have been wide open.

- I highlighted Antonio Brown on this play to point out how superior he is at running routes. He ran a textbook post on this snap. Break was great and he ran the play out even after Ben had thrown the ball. And that quality has been consistent from him this entire game. His routes are fantastic. If only we could give his quick feet to Wallace. That player would be unstoppable.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion: I realize this is a small sample size. But just from these randomly chosen snaps (all occured in the first half of the Redskins game, on random drives) you can already see that Mike Wallace is letting much of his talent go to waste. I personally believe he is not focused much of the time - which he has himself admitted. When the game starts out he is much more enthusiastic than he is as the contest goes on. It seems like once he hasn't caught a pass in a while he just losses interest. And you know what? I don't think he does it on purpose. That is to say I don't think he just flat out thinks "if I'm not going to be part of the gameplan I'm not going to try". I just think he has a short attention span. And I think that might account for some of the times that Ben tries to force balls to him when he clearly isn't open. That happened several times over the course of the first half of the game. I think Ben might be trying to get him involved because he realizes otherwise Wallace is going to get careless. After studying him I'm actually less mad at the dude. Because I don't think he is being malicious when he gives up on plays, I just don't think he likes football that much. I think he likes catching the ball, though. And I think a change of scenery might make this guy a great receiver. If he goes somewhere where he can be a true focal point of the offense - like Washington with Griffin's awesome deep passing game - I think he becomes a pro bowler again. In Todd Haley's offense though, I just don't see it happening.

I hope we got something out of this. I would love to hear some thoughts on what I've said here (hopefully reasonable thoughts). I would love for you guys to examine more snaps of Wallace and show me why I'm wrong or tell me if you agree with me. If anyone does that, I have a challenge for you. I noticed a pretty big tell from him when he knew the play was a called run. Let me know if anyone finds it. :eyebrows:

[Seven]

After thinking about it some more, from that half of football I watched focusing solely on Wallace, I have to say I strongly feel like 33.33% of the time he runs a very solid route, 33.33% of the time he runs an average route and 33.33% of the time he runs an ugly route. Which, to me, suggests that he is really what most of us think he is which is a rather average NFL wide receiver with great speed --- and great hands too. I know he has dropped a lot of passes this season but when he is focused he catches everything. Saw him make some great catches away from his body that I didn't expect him to bring down mid throw.

Again, I must stress that these snaps were not cherry picked to support one view or another. So while it's a rather small sample size, I do feel like it's an accurate assessment.

[86WARD]

Good breakdown Seven!!

[Seven]

Also, something that baffles me is that Wallace tends to zig zag when he is running. Even on the go pattern it was a slight left, right, left, right zig zag once he got by the corner. If you notice I used a different tool to highlight Brown's route - that wasn't by design. I tried using that straight line point A to point B tool with Wallace and couldn't do it. He somehow ends up going east and west slightly no matter what he's running. Can't figure out why.

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Good breakdown Seven!!

Thank you. I really do hope we can garner some mutual opinions on Wallace from this. I know he has been a big topic of debate around here for a while now. It would be nice to reach some sort of conclusion.

[Steeldude]

Wallace has great hands? Did Steeldawg hack the account?

[Seven]

Wallace has great hands? Did Steeldawg hack the account?

:rofl:

[crcsnail]

Good post seven. I have often thought he gives up on plays. I also think he has trouble adjusting to the ball . I know he is fast and it's hard to put the brakes on but other receivers seem to see the ball earlier and adjust to it . Perhaps he wants out from the steelers . I used to like Washington , then he went to the titans and has really only been steady and not set the world alight. Perhaps the grass is always greener ?

[Seven]

Good post seven. I have often thought he gives up on plays. I also think he has trouble adjusting to the ball . I know he is fast and it's hard to put the brakes on but other receivers seem to see the ball earlier and adjust to it . Perhaps he wants out from the steelers . I used to like Washington , then he went to the titans and has really only been steady and not set the world alight. Perhaps the grass is always greener ?

Thank you.

To be fair I only saw Wallace quit on one play (unless you consider running awful routes quitting) so with such a small sample size it could be an anomaly. He might have thought Ben was sacked (I don't think so though, because in that case he would have started walking back to the huddle).

I was a big fan of Nate Washington and think the Titans have never really had the type of passer necessary to take advantage of his skill set but you are right in comparing him to Wallace. Fairly similar storyline will likely play out with the two. Wallace has of course been more productive here than Washington was, though.

I think the trouble adjusting to the ball observation you've made has some truth to it. Didn't necessarily notice it in this selection of plays but I can certainly recall passes that were overtop of him that he should have been able to bring down but misjudged. Which is a little odd since I think he adjusts well on passes that are thrown near out of reach to him in a more fastball style - you would think it would be the other way around.

[Animal Mother]

Great breakdown! I loved reading that. One other thing I noticed a couple times and I haven't done any kind of analysis on, it is just an observation is on some deep balls, I feel like Mike gives up if they aren't perfectly thrown in stride. And sometimes it looks like he is trying to draw a PI flag rather than making an effort to get to the ball. I forget the game, but it looked like if he had kept running and maybe extended his arms out or heaven forbid dove, he had a shot at a catch, but instead he did a weird lean-back arm flail that looked like he tried to draw a flag. This angers me because it it not only a bad football play, it shows a lack of integrity.

[Seven]

Thank you Steelreal and Animal mother.

@Steelreal, you already know you and I differ on Roethlisberger. Not exactly sure how Wallace running poor routes indicates that Ben is a bad passer, because as I showed on the first example, Ben put the ball where it needed to be if Wallace broke the route off correctly. But I'm glad you enjoyed the read nontheless.

@Animal Mother, I have thought that maybe once or twice over the last couple of seasons. It is frustrating to see a guy get overthrown pretty frequently when he brags that he cannot be overthrown. Whether or not he gives up on balls that aren't perfect thrown deep, I can't really say for certain. But I will play devil's advocate and suggest that sometimes playing for pass interference is the smarter play.

[LLT]

Yeah, I would totally understand it if that was the case. But once you beat your guy GO! I don't know what the hell it's about. Maybe he has an abnormally wide stride? But that doesn't make sense because he wouldn't be nearly as fast as he is without utilizing his stride properly. I notice it a lot with crossing patterns. It seems almost like he thinks the zig zag is going to help him get a better angle to beat defenders but I just don't know. I've noticed it live to a lesser extent but really slowing his game down - it really stands out. If you come to any conclusions let me know. Maybe it's just me.

No....you're correct...and I have no explanation. I have seen Adrian Peterson do that....but its after he has the ball and he is watching the jumbotron and veering away from the guy he sees chasing him. But that is incredibly smart football and not the same situation at all.

[Devilsdancefloor]

i am far from a expert, but i would bet his zig and zag is just the way he runs. the reason i say that just watch his stride it is rather unorthodox to say the least. As for Ben throwing to the guy, well the WR knows that and well i would assume adjust with playing time with BR :noidea:

[Seven]

i am far from a expert, but i would bet his zig and zag is just the way he runs. the reason i say that just watch his stride it is rather unorthodox to say the least. As for Ben throwing to the guy, well the WR knows that and well i would assume adjust with playing time with BR :noidea:

Maybe that's his secret to running so fast :chuckle:

[steelerdude15]

This was an excellent breakdown Seven. I enjoyed reading it, thanks for your opinion. :thumbsup:

[Psycho Ward 86]

Seven, you do know any player that runs a route in the nfl must adjust his route accordingly to what the coverage is giving him? they dont always run exactly whats on the clipboard everytime? lol.

[Seven]

Seven, you do know any player that runs a route in the nfl must adjust his route accordingly to what the coverage is giving him? they dont always run exactly whats on the clipboard everytime? lol.

Obviosuly in certain situations you are correct. For example if a player needs to extend a curl route another yard on third down to reach the sticks he is going to try to do so. And I realize there are option routes which the receiver chooses to run based on whether or not he reads man or zone coverage - which often leads to miscommunication between quarterbacks and receivers. But mid route, adjust on the fly when your specified route has the coverage beat? Sorry, that excuse doesn't fly. Wallace gets a huge cushion from most corners. And in any man situation in/out routes should be easy completions assuming your QB has enough arm to get it there. So why then does Wallace round his in/out routes off when in man coverage? No matter how you play around it there is no way to avoid the fact that on some patterns the player simply fails to run the route.

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This was an excellent breakdown Seven. I enjoyed reading it, thanks for your opinion. :thumbsup:

Thank you. I'm very glad you enjoyed reading it.

[Edman]

I wonder what the explanation is Wallaces drastic decline last season?

This isn't a one-time anomoly. Wallace has been dropping off since the mid-part of 2011. Arians was the coordinator then, so that "Todd Haley Offense" thing doesn't fit.

The excuses made for Mike Wallace's bout of mediocrity are getting more elaborate as they go on. It's not all his fault and it's a mistake to blame everything on him, it's just simply coming to the grips that he isn't that good. He's Nate Washington with straightline speed.

[NCSteeler]

Hines and santonio were both awesome yac guys. Don't ya think it could be trust issue. To throw to a spot you gotta believe the guy will be there. Maybe we can get Sanchez to come over from the jets, he's pretty good at just throwing it where the wr is supposed to be.

[Mojouw]

Can't we solve this whole thing by throwing this into the mix http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/17/playing-for-todd-haley-in-k-c-helped-brandon-carr-get-crucial-pick/

I am relatively new here and wouldn't want to clutter up a slap-fight with pesky things like facts...

Bottom line Carr gambled, jumped the route, and made the pick. They pay the other guys too.

[Animal Mother]

It is a damn shame, the screenshots (er SCREENSHOTS) are awesome, I mean, that totally tells the story and I totally commend you for taking the time to do that. Most people can just spout off their opinion, but it is just fantastic when someone can display it in easy to decipher pictures.

[43Hitman]

Can't we solve this whole thing by throwing this into the mix http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/17/playing-for-todd-haley-in-k-c-helped-brandon-carr-get-crucial-pick/

I am relatively new here and wouldn't want to clutter up a slap-fight with pesky things like facts...

Bottom line Carr gambled, jumped the route, and made the pick. They pay the other guys too.

Good post. thanks for helping get this thread back on track.

[Count Steeler]

Okay fans, I have eliminated most of the annoying posts and posts relating to Steelreal. If you would like to read and add your 2 cents http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/16097-Wallace-Thread-Derailment

In respect of the work Seven has done, I wanted this thread to be back on track.

[Seven]

Okay fans, I have eliminated most of the annoying posts and posts relating to Steelreal. If you would like to read and add your 2 cents http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/16097-Wallace-Thread-Derailment

In respect of the work Seven has done, I wanted this thread to be back on track.

Thank you Count, there really wasn't all that much work invovled in my OP, only took a small amount of time, but thank you - I'm glad to see this topic has at least a chance to survive now :chuckle:

[SteelGhost]

Thanks for the thread Seven :thumbsup:

[Chidi29]

Getting back to the actual premise of the thread, definitely solid, objective analysis Seven as I said. It's really an impossible mission to create a good sample size and I still think it's difficult to feel comfortable in making too many guesses about what the playcall was supposed to be, even when they're educated ones. To be clear, I don't think anyone is really calling Wallace a "great" route-runner. I've only contested that it's a lot better than people give him credit for and people are just living on the "one-trick pony" moniker Tomlin used to dog him about. It's been a long time since Tomlin has used that phrase.

I think it is worth pointing out one flaw is that you're concentrating solely on intermediate routes. Lot more invovled when it comes to being able to run routes than those specific few (you really only illustrate digs and drag routes). Even though I know the concern is with the shorter routes, there are still plenty of nuances of deeper routes that can show good route running. An area I feel Wallace really excels at, too. Plus, a lot of the routes for Wallace are 90 degree cuts while the one you show to illustrate Brown's route-running ability is a post, a 45 degree route. Much easier to run than completely changing direction. Apples to oranges.

I think the "focus" element is an interesting one. If it is true, it means that Wallace isn't necessarily a bad route runner. Just that he isn't always focusing. Still a troubling issue? Yes. But a separate one? Yes.

I figured that was a more valid point than the poor route running but then I did a quick look at the numbers. Wallace is only 8 catches behind 2011's mark and if Yahoo's numbers are to be believed, he actually has five more targets than he did last year. Now clearly, the numbers are down, a change OC's no doubt, but the attention may not have decreased.

What are we to make of all this? Not really sure yet. A lot more to discuss and look into before making a conclusion.

[Seven]

Getting back to the actual premise of the thread, definitely solid, objective analysis Seven as I said. It's really an impossible mission to create a good sample size and I still think it's difficult to feel comfortable in making too many guesses about what the playcall was supposed to be, even when they're educated ones. To be clear, I don't think anyone is really calling Wallace a "great" route-runner. I've only contested that it's a lot better than people give him credit for and people are just living on the "one-trick pony" moniker Tomlin used to dog him about. It's been a long time since Tomlin has used that phrase.

I think it is worth pointing out one flaw is that you're concentrating solely on intermediate routes. Lot more invovled when it comes to being able to run routes than those specific few (you really only illustrate digs and drag routes). Even though I know the concern is with the shorter routes, there are still plenty of nuances of deeper routes that can show good route running. An area I feel Wallace really excels at, too. Plus, a lot of the routes for Wallace are 90 degree cuts while the one you show to illustrate Brown's route-running ability is a post, a 45 degree route. Much easier to run than completely changing direction. Apples to oranges.

I think the "focus" element is an interesting one. If it is true, it means that Wallace isn't necessarily a bad route runner. Just that he isn't always focusing. Still a troubling issue? Yes. But a separate one? Yes.

I figured that was a more valid point than the poor route running but then I did a quick look at the numbers. Wallace is only 8 catches behind 2011's mark and if Yahoo's numbers are to be believed, he actually has five more targets than he did last year. Now clearly, the numbers are down, a change OC's no doubt, but the attention may not have decreased.

What are we to make of all this? Not really sure yet. A lot more to discuss and look into before making a conclusion.

Thank you for your thoughts. I was looking forward to them.

Those numbers are interesting. I knew he was still getting his fair share of targets but more than last year surprises me. Maybe my theory is way off, but hey, that's why it is a theory I suppose.

[Chidi29]

Yeah, I wouldn't have ever guessed it either. And it's not like Wallace has been overloaded in a particular game this year either. Last year, he had seven games of 5+ targets. This year he has six.

[Seven]

The reason I theorized about a lack of focus was a combination of his own comments about losing focus due to lack of involvement (which now seems inaccurate) as well as the fact that sometimes he looks surprised when the ball is thrown to him. Not Randy Moss lazy surprised, but rather "wait I'm playing in a game right now!?" surprised. Seems like he zones out. But I really only have body language and a few close ups which I have based that on.

[Chidi29]

The reason I theorized about a lack of focus was a combination of his own comments about losing focus due to lack of involvement (which now seems inaccurate) as well as the fact that sometimes he looks surprised when the ball is thrown to him. Not Randy Moss lazy surprised, but rather "wait I'm playing in a game right now!?" surprised. Seems like he zones out. But I really only have body language and a few close ups which I have based that on.

I think his comments trump the numbers. But the reason for the lack of focus might not be a lack of attention in the passing game.

[Craic]

The reason I theorized about a lack of focus was a combination of his own comments about losing focus due to lack of involvement (which now seems inaccurate) as well as the fact that sometimes he looks surprised when the ball is thrown to him. Not Randy Moss lazy surprised, but rather "wait I'm playing in a game right now!?" surprised. Seems like he zones out. But I really only have body language and a few close ups which I have based that on.

i think you also have his own words to back that up when he says that he struggles to keep focused. And you're right, that's not Randy Moss lazy, it's letting circumstances get the better of you frustration.

[Steeldude]

So can anyone explain why he didn't try to catch Batch's 3rd down pass to keep the drive alive vs. Cleveland?

So his complete failure to fight for a pass is a lack of focus? So why give big money to a player who can't stay focused?

[Seven]

I think his comments trump the numbers. But the reason for the lack of focus might not be a lack of attention in the passing game.

Yeah. I mean seriously, maybe he has ADD or something. It could be for any number of reasons. But it has definitely shown up this year at critical times.

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i think you also have his own words to back that up when he says that he struggles to keep focused. And you're right, that's not Randy Moss lazy, it's letting circumstances get the better of you frustration.

Yeah, it's always hard to get inside a player's head but I think we might actually be on to something here.

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The focus thing definitely makes sense, because sometimes (like that outside hitch) he runs his routes to perfection. That was one hell of a stutter-hitch style route that I totally believe was by design and he moved well at close to full speed while executing it. But then on that inside "hitch" he literally just jogged it out and turned around - no effort at all. I don't know what variable made him go all out on one and laze through the other.

[zulater]

So can anyone explain why he didn't try to catch Batch's 3rd down pass to keep the drive alive vs. Cleveland?

So his complete failure to fight for a pass is a lack of focus? So why give big money to a player who can't stay focused?

I have no good answer for you, but someone will but I doubt very much it will be the Steelers.

[fansince'76]

So can anyone explain why he didn't try to catch Batch's 3rd down pass to keep the drive alive vs. Cleveland?

So his complete failure to fight for a pass is a lack of focus? So why give big money to a player who can't stay focused?

I have no good answer for you, but someone will but I doubt very much it will be the Steelers.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-w0h4Zx-S3yo/Th9TsG6axII/AAAAAAAAALU/muk6ACpnPCI/s400/snyder.png

RGIII and Wallace together would be sweeeet!

:chuckle:

[Seven]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-w0h4Zx-S3yo/Th9TsG6axII/AAAAAAAAALU/muk6ACpnPCI/s400/snyder.png

RGIII and Wallace together would be sweeeet!

:chuckle:

As hilarious as it will be if Danny boy does go after Wallace, I think it would be a great fit.

[XxKnightxX]

Watch him go to the Patriots.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

[steel striker]

Is there another WR in the draft that has speed like Wallace? Seems like no matter what he is gone after this Sunday. Enough with beating this dead horse about what he has not done this year and, my beef with him is not fighting for the ball enough. No quuestion Brown is the best route runner we have. Mike had a bad year simple as that and, sounds like he will get paid somewhere else next and, I hope it's not in New England. Can you imagine him with Precious, Gronk, Welker, Hernandez?

[st33lersguy]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-w0h4Zx-S3yo/Th9TsG6axII/AAAAAAAAALU/muk6ACpnPCI/s400/snyder.png

RGIII and Wallace together would be sweeeet!

:chuckle:

Wallace would get paid like 10 million dollars a year, RGIII would throw a perfect ball to Wallace, and Wallace would drop the ball, or if RGIII had a throw a little inaccurate, Wallace would give up on the play

[Count Steeler]

Listen, I had to clean this thread up once already.

Let's focus on the work Seven did on the route running of Wallace. If someone wants to start yet another thread on Brown v Wallace, go ahead.

Let this thread live on the purpose it was created for.

[43Hitman]

Listen, I had to clean this thread up once already.

Let's focus on the work Seven did on the route running of Wallace. If someone wants to start yet another thread on Brown v Wallace, go ahead.

Let this thread live on the purpose it was created for.

There ya go brother.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/16114-Cage-Match-Brown-vs-Wallace

[Seven]

And that, I do belive, indicates the death of this thread :chuckle:

It had a good run. Great initial discussion, followed by two derailments. What more could you ask for? :chuckle: