Big Ben on 3rd down, before the injury& after the injury.

[zulater]

Here's Ben 3rd down passing numbers through the first 9 games.

Att. 92 comp 62 com percent 67

yds 764 YPA 8.3 TD's 5 int 0 sacked 7.

First downs converted 48 out of a possible 99. First down conversion rate 48% 3rd and long's* converted 29 out of 46. 3rd and long conversion rate 63%

*(3rd and 6+ yards)

Now the last 3 games.

Att 26 comp 11 com percent 42

yards 96 YPA 3.69 TD's 1 Int 1 sacked 5.

First down converted 10 out of a possible 31. First down conversion rate. 32% 3rd and longs converted. 3 out of 15. 3rd and long conversion rate. 20%

Make of it what you will. :coffee:

[GBMelBlount]

Perhaps there was some truth to your belief before the season that Ben would hit his prime the next few years....

Unfortunately it also looks like two seasons in a row Ben was rushed back prematurely from injury and it cost us the season...

[zulater]

Ben's 3rd down passing numbers prior to his injury should dispell the nonsense that Ben isn't cerebral enough to play the position at an elite level. You don't convert 3rd and longs at that high of rate (63%) over that period of time without knowing how to read a defense! You can't convert that high of percentage of 3rd downs being strictly dependent on play action as some on here have suggested! Who the hell's biting on play action on 3rd and long? :doh:

Ben may be healthy enough to play. But he's obviously not healthy enough to play at a high level behind a porous offensive line. He's anticipating contact (aka happy feet) because his body is telling his mind to protect his ribs and shoulder! It's an involuntary flinch responce! Also I'd have to guess that the injuries while managable in the sense of pain tolerance is screwing with his mechanics. You can see he's not throwing with the same accuracy and consistency since he's returned. You can just see that his throwing base is way out of whack on a number of his throws.



Merry Christmas everyone!:drink:

[zulater]

Let me add the sack percentage to the equation. Prior to the injury Ben was sacked 7 times on 99 3rd down drop backs. Seven percent in other words.\

Since his return from injury he's been sacked 5 times on 31 dropbacks. Which is 16%.

[DarthSpartans20]

Play-calling. Lack of imagination in the play-calling. Where were the play calls that allowed Ben to get of the rid of the ball quickly and promptly like earlier in the season?

[zulater]

Play-calling. Lack of imagination in the play-calling. Where were the play calls that allowed Ben to get of the rid of the ball quickly and promptly like earlier in the season?

Honestly I don't think the problems stem from anything other than Ben and the offensive line being too banged up to do the job needed of them.

[Seven]

Ben's 3rd down passing numbers prior to his injury should dispell the nonsense that Ben isn't cerebral enough to play the position at an elite level. You don't convert 3rd and longs at that high of rate (63%) over that period of time without knowing how to read a defense! You can't convert that high of percentage of 3rd downs being strictly dependent on play action as some on here have suggested! Who the hell's biting on play action on 3rd and long? :doh:

Ben may be healthy enough to play. But he's obviously not healthy enough to play at a high level behind a porous offensive line. He's anticipating contact (aka happy feet) because his body is telling his mind to protect his ribs and shoulder! It's an involuntary flinch responce! Also I'd have to guess that the pain while managable in the sense of pain tolerance is screwing with his mechanics. You can see he's not throwing with the same accuracy and consistency since he's returned. You can just see that his throwing base is way out of whack on a number of his throws.



Merry Christmas everyone!:drink:

But but but he can't read defenses and he doesn't study tape! Everyone knows Ben is lazy!

:coffee:

[GBMelBlount]

Play-calling. Lack of imagination in the play-calling. Where were the play calls that allowed Ben to get of the rid of the ball quickly and promptly like earlier in the season?

Great point Darth. My wife and I were even talking about that right after the last loss.

It SEEMED to us like at the beginning on the year he was hitting a lot of short routes and spending less time waiting for the play to develop and receivers to get open.

[Steeldude]

There are many factors to consider...

Injuries along the O-line

Injury to BR

WRs playing poorly or perhaps inconsistently is a better word

New offense



The Steelers need a more competent backup QB. Batch and Leftwich aren't the answers. With a capable QB they won't need to rush BR back into action

[zulater]

Great point Darth. My wife and I were even talking about that right after the last loss.

It SEEMED to us like at the beginning on the year he was hitting a lot of short routes and spending less time waiting for the play to develop and receivers to get open.

Merrill Hoge showed on tape how in the last 3 games we've really been getting crushed at the A gap. No quarterback in the league functions at a high level when when the A gap isn't controlled with any consistency by your line. Even Tom Brady ( http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201001100nwe.htm) struggles when he's facing a middle rush on virtually every play.

And Steeldude makes good points. There are many factors at play here.

It's the injuries.

It's happy feet, that are relatable to both the injuries to Ben and those of the offensive line.

The receivers and lack of running game have played a part.

Play calling, and possibly predictability as the season goes on is a minor player possibly.

But still I think it's about 75% relatable to Ben's injuries and how they have physically and mentally stressed him. Ben has a history of overcoming substandard line play, a spotty running game, and mediocre receivers ( 2005) and questionable play calling.

To go from functioning at a career high level to a such a sub standard level of play with such an obvious divide ( injury) leads me to the most obvious conclusion. The injury derailed his and the Steelers season.

[zulater]

Just want to add Ben is two for three on 4th down passing attempts this season, with a touchdown pass and two first down conversions. All of these attempts took place before his injury. He's also converted a few 3rd downs with his legs, but I didn't add this to this thread because then I'd have to go watch all those plays to determine if it was a designed run or an improvisation.

[ShoeHorn]

It's not the injury it's the baby! Those numbers are also. Pre and post baby being born... It's gotta be hard being an nfl qb while you have a screaming newborn keeping you up every night

[zulater]

It's not the injury it's the baby! Those numbers are also. Pre and post baby being born... It's gotta be hard being an nfl qb while you have a screaming newborn keeping you up every night

That could be part of it.

[Count Steeler]

To go from functioning at a career high level to a such a sub standard level of play with such an obvious divide ( injury) leads me to the most obvious conclusion. The injury derailed his and the Steelers season.

There is no doubt in my mind that he is still having problems with his ribs. Whenever he opens up to throw to his right, his accuracy and sometimes his velocity suffers. When he keeps his arm tucked and throws across his body, to the left, he was fine.

I actually hope they rest him this week, and let Batch finish off his career with a home win against the Browns. No need to put Ben at further risk this year. He needs to get healed up 100%.

[Moose]

Screaming baby ? LOL Yea, Ben needs sex before game ! LOL

[steeldawg]

Tomlin said hes going into this week to win, so our starter will be full go.

[X-Terminator]

There are many factors to consider...

Injuries along the O-line

Injury to BR

WRs playing poorly or perhaps inconsistently is a better word

New offense



The Steelers need a more competent backup QB. Batch and Leftwich aren't the answers. With a capable QB they won't need to rush BR back into action

I agree with all of this, especially getting a competent backup QB. There are more out there than people realize if they want to go the FA route, but I'd rather them spend a late-round pick on a QB - a REAL QB, not another Kordell Stewart clone.

[Moose]

I thought that Johnson kid seemed pretty good in camp. It looked like he had a decent arm. I wonder why they dumped him ?

[Steelreal]

Here's Ben 3rd down passing numbers through the first 9 games.

Att. 92 comp 62 com percent 67

yds 764 YPA 8.3 TD's 5 int 0 sacked 7.

First downs converted 48 out of a possible 99. First down conversion rate 48% 3rd and long's* converted 29 out of 46. 3rd and long conversion rate 63%

*(3rd and 6+ yards)

Now the last 3 games.

Att 26 comp 11 com percent 42

yards 96 YPA 3.69 TD's 1 Int 1 sacked 5.

First down converted 10 out of a possible 31. First down conversion rate. 32% 3rd and longs converted. 3 out of 15. 3rd and long conversion rate. 20%

Make of it what you will. :coffee:

Perhaps if you listed the opponents before and after that will add some clarity

[Seven]

I thought that Johnson kid seemed pretty good in camp. It looked like he had a decent arm. I wonder why they dumped him ?

Jerrod Johnson gets poo-pood around here but the kid can play. He isn't a Dennis Dixon type as some would like you to believe. I'll be disappointed if he isn't in camp again this year. The answer isn't just as simpe as signing a vet or drafting a guy in the middle rounds. I think the ease with which a team can acquire a solid backup quarterback is vastly thought to be a simple task when it's really quite hard. Look at the Bears, they brought in Jason Campbell this year because they've been trying to find a backup for Cutler for the last two years. Campbell played poorly. As did Caleb Hanie and Todd Collins before him. So it's not a sure thing to bring in a veteran guy. And remember, if you plan on taking a quarterback in the fourth or fifth rounds of the draft - there is a reason he is in the fourth or fifth round. Finding a backup is hard. There just aren't that many good players at the position who can come in cold and give you something.

[zulater]

Perhaps if you listed the opponents before and after that will add some clarity


I believe they're all NFL teams. The last I checked the Redskins, Jets, Giants, Broncos, and Bengals were all in those first 9 games. I think any of them would be considered as good as the teams he's played poorly against in the same circumstance the past 3 games ( Bengals, Cowboys, chargers)

[Seven]

http://s1.postimage.org/cklbcmupr/Wallace_Out_Route.jpg

Just posted this in the Wallace thread. Thought it was relevant to the Roethlisberger conversation. The pick against Dallas in OT - here is the route Wallace ran. The progression in this photo is actually a little generous to Mike do to the camera zooming out - the pattern was actually run even worse than it looks.

Assuming this was a 10 yard out Ben put the ball exactly where it needed to be and Carr was able to jump it do to poor route running by Wallace - which cost us the game.

[Steeldude]

http://s1.postimage.org/cklbcmupr/Wallace_Out_Route.jpg

Just posted this in the Wallace thread. Thought it was relevant to the Roethlisberger conversation. The pick against Dallas in OT - here is the route Wallace ran. The progression in this photo is actually a little generous to Mike do to the camera zooming out - the pattern was actually run even worse than it looks.

Assuming this was a 10 yard out Ben put the ball exactly where it needed to be and Carr was able to jump it do to poor route running by Wallace - which cost us the game.

But running good routes isn't part of his game.

- - - Updated - - -


I agree with all of this, especially getting a competent backup QB. There are more out there than people realize if they want to go the FA route, but I'd rather them spend a late-round pick on a QB - a REAL QB, not another Kordell Stewart clone.

If they draft a QB I am pretty sure it will be another Kordell clone.

[Seven]

Unfortunately it also looks like two seasons in a row Ben was rushed back prematurely from injury and it cost us the season...

Yes. And that's a troublesome trend if true.

[zulater]

Yes. And that's a troublesome trend if true.

I'm kind of conflicted on this. I think if Ben would have come back when he did and if the line would have been at it's best with Colon fully healthy and Adams road grading the strong side for the running game, then he could probably have managed the job pretty well. Not that he wouldn't have been dimished, but his 80% under normal circumstances are better than Batch or Leftwich's 100%. Of course it could be argued that Leftwich doesn't have a 100% anytime after the first set of downs. :lol:

Anyway when I saw what Hoge illustrated the other day about the Steelers really struggling to control the A gap the last few weeks, combined with no real ability to run the ball, and then it's probably true that Ben wasn't healthy enough to play well enough to compensate for those things.It's one thing when you're giving up pressure to the edge rushers if you have a pocket to step into, which was often the case earlair this season. But if you've got a tackle struggling, and the middle rush is right on top of you, where do you have to go? And if you hit a quarterback hard, early and often it's hard for that quarterback's mechanics not to go awry. If you can't get comfortable in your normal throwing platform and gain a game rythm then the ball starts sailing on you. Also these guys are human, and if you get hit too many times you start anticipating contact even when it doesn't come. Particularly if you're nursing an injury.

So in essense what I'm saying is that Ben probably looked pretty good in practice. Obviously wanted to play. So it would have been hard for a coach to sit him. Particularly when your options were what Tomlin's were. But the quarterback doesn't get hit in practice, so you're not really getting a true game read. And while Ben normally doesn't shrink from contact it's a lot different when you've got a sore rib and shoulder. Again a lot of your reaction when you have an injury is involuntary, as your body will often overrrule your brain in a moment of crisis. Even a slight flinch or cringe in anticipation of presumed contact will screw up your pass.

So I'm not blaming the coaches, I'm not blaming Ben. I'm blaming the situation. If the line and running game were working at a higher level Ben's play would have most likely been good enough to get a win or two or three upon his return.

[Count Steeler]

If they draft a QB I am pretty sure it will be another Kordell clone.

Why not a Big Ben clone? Ben has been way more successful than Kordell.

[Steelreal]

You guys are now blaming WALLACE for the bad throw vs Dallas? Funny NO expert is. Who cares about 3rd down pct? Do you get points for that? Ben has ALWAYS Been good from 20 to 20 but what he has NEVER been good at is scoring points. Thats what wins games is points. You can spoout all the 3rd down stats you like, they dont score points. Lastly, the teams on the schedule in the PRIOR to the injury were considerable WORSE than the teams AFTER the injury. That might have something to do with the lowered stats because Ben habitually plays poorly or average vs a good defense. Funny no one has ventured to prove me wrong on this.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm kind of conflicted on this. I think if Ben would have come back when he did and if the line would have been at it's best with Colon fully healthy and Adams road grading the strong side for the running game, then he could probably have managed the job pretty well. Not that he wouldn't have been dimished, but his 80% under normal circumstances are better than Batch or Leftwich's 100%. Of course it could be argued that Leftwich doesn't have a 100% anytime after the first set of downs. :lol:

Anyway when I saw what Hoge illustrated the other day about the Steelers really struggling to control the A gap the last few weeks, combined with no real ability to run the ball, and then it's probably true that Ben wasn't healthy enough to play well enough to compensate for those things.It's one thing when you're giving up pressure to the edge rushers if you have a pocket to step into, which was often the case earlair this season. But if you've got a tackle struggling, and the middle rush is right on top of you, where do you have to go? And if you hit a quarterback hard, early and often it's hard for that quarterback's mechanics not to go awry. If you can't get comfortable in your normal throwing platform and gain a game rythm then the ball starts sailing on you. Also these guys are human, and if you get hit too many times you start anticipating contact even when it doesn't come. Particularly if you're nursing an injury.

So in essense what I'm saying is that Ben probably looked pretty good in practice. Obviously wanted to play. So it would have been hard for a coach to sit him. Particularly when your options were what Tomlin's were. But the quarterback doesn't get hit in practice, so you're not really getting a true game read. And while Ben normally doesn't shrink from contact it's a lot different when you've got a sore rib and shoulder. Again a lot of your reaction when you have an injury is involuntary, as your body will often overrrule your brain in a moment of crisis. Even a slight flinch or cringe in anticipation of presumed contact will screw up your pass.

So I'm not blaming the coaches, I'm not blaming Ben. I'm blaming the situation. If the line and running game were working at a higher level Ben's play would have most likely been good enough to get a win or two or three upon his return.

Ben gets sacked in the Pro Bowl with a no blitz rule behind an All Pro line (07). He is slow to process the information.Next excuse

- - - Updated - - -

People cant just admit that "Ben played poorly" there has ALWAYS got to be an excuse. Arians, Tomlin, Haley, The line, His shoulder, His foot, the lady in Vegas, Media bias, His thumb. Im impressed by all the loyalty. However, When Leftwich was hurt (ribs) did he get the same excuse? Nope he got killed, I read the threads.

[Steelreal]

I'm kind of conflicted on this. I think if Ben would have come back when he did and if the line would have been at it's best with Colon fully healthy and Adams road grading the strong side for the running game, then he could probably have managed the job pretty well. Not that he wouldn't have been dimished, but his 80% under normal circumstances are better than Batch or Leftwich's 100%. Of course it could be argued that Leftwich doesn't have a 100% anytime after the first set of downs. :lol:

Anyway when I saw what Hoge illustrated the other day about the Steelers really struggling to control the A gap the last few weeks, combined with no real ability to run the ball, and then it's probably true that Ben wasn't healthy enough to play well enough to compensate for those things.It's one thing when you're giving up pressure to the edge rushers if you have a pocket to step into, which was often the case earlair this season. But if you've got a tackle struggling, and the middle rush is right on top of you, where do you have to go? And if you hit a quarterback hard, early and often it's hard for that quarterback's mechanics not to go awry. If you can't get comfortable in your normal throwing platform and gain a game rythm then the ball starts sailing on you. Also these guys are human, and if you get hit too many times you start anticipating contact even when it doesn't come. Particularly if you're nursing an injury.

So in essense what I'm saying is that Ben probably looked pretty good in practice. Obviously wanted to play. So it would have been hard for a coach to sit him. Particularly when your options were what Tomlin's were. But the quarterback doesn't get hit in practice, so you're not really getting a true game read. And while Ben normally doesn't shrink from contact it's a lot different when you've got a sore rib and shoulder. Again a lot of your reaction when you have an injury is involuntary, as your body will often overrrule your brain in a moment of crisis. Even a slight flinch or cringe in anticipation of presumed contact will screw up your pass.

So I'm not blaming the coaches, I'm not blaming Ben. I'm blaming the situation. If the line and running game were working at a higher level Ben's play would have most likely been good enough to get a win or two or three upon his return.

WHO controls the A gap? WHO sets the line adjustments? Who sets the sight adjustments? Let me help you? Its Ben. So maybe he is having trouble at the line of scrimmage with his pre snap reads. The line blocks the way the QB tells them to block. So if the line goes wrong its because they were told to do so. Next excuse?

[Seven]

You guys are now blaming WALLACE for the bad throw vs Dallas? Funny NO expert is. Who cares about 3rd down pct?

I'm sorry, I didn't realize the "experts" weren't blaming Wallace. Obviously I shouldn't then. Since that route was so crisp, there isn't any possible way that Carr could have keyed on the throw, huh? How silly of me to think that. Him recognizing that Wallace was lazing his way through another out route truly means nothing. Forgive me, just because it happened on the field doesn't mean there is any relevence to it. I apologize for not being an expert such as yourself. I don't know what I was thinking. Ben should have compensated for Wallace's sloppy route. The receiver was tired, so it's Ben's fault. Just like he should be able to control the A gap when his linemen get beat off the snap. It's totally unacceptable for Ben not to allow Wallace and his offensive line to take a play off here and there, he's an awful quarterback. Thank you so much for bestowing your unquestionably enlightened insight upon myself, a mere peasant fan who has no business making an observation about the game of football. You'll have to let me know how I can become as intelligent as you. Maybe someday I can become an expert, too.

[Count Steeler]

People cant just admit that "Ben played poorly" there has ALWAYS got to be an excuse. Arians, Tomlin, Haley, The line, His shoulder, His foot, the lady in Vegas, Media bias, His thumb. Im impressed by all the loyalty. However, When Leftwich was hurt (ribs) did he get the same excuse? Nope he got killed, I read the threads.

I don't know what you are reading, but there have been plenty of "Ben shit the bed" the last 2 games and at other points of his career. Just because we don't do it every post like you, you have a problem with that?

[NCSteeler]

You guys are now blaming WALLACE for the bad throw vs Dallas? Funny NO expert is. Who cares about 3rd down pct? Do you get points for that? Ben has ALWAYS Been good from 20 to 20 but what he has NEVER been good at is scoring points. Thats what wins games is points. You can spoout all the 3rd down stats you like, they dont score points. Lastly, the teams on the schedule in the PRIOR to the injury were considerable WORSE than the teams AFTER the injury. That might have something to do with the lowered stats because Ben habitually plays poorly or average vs a good defense. Funny no one has ventured to prove me wrong on this.

- - - Updated - - -





Ben gets sacked in the Pro Bowl with a no blitz rule behind an All Pro line (07). He is slow to process the information.Next excuse

- - - Updated - - -

People cant just admit that "Ben played poorly" there has ALWAYS got to be an excuse. Arians, Tomlin, Haley, The line, His shoulder, His foot, the lady in Vegas, Media bias, His thumb. Im impressed by all the loyalty. However, When Leftwich was hurt (ribs) did he get the same excuse? Nope he got killed, I read the threads.

So let's cut Ben and sign Wallace with all the cap space we'll create

[Craic]

There are many factors to consider...

Injuries along the O-line

Injury to BR

WRs playing poorly or perhaps inconsistently is a better word

New offense



The Steelers need a more competent backup QB. Batch and Leftwich aren't the answers. With a capable QB they won't need to rush BR back into action

There isn't a word here I can disagree with.

- - - Updated - - -


You guys are now blaming WALLACE for the bad throw vs Dallas?

Yep. Do you not remember the first year that Santonio was here? His route running was so bad it was pitiful. The result was that Ben was throwing a lot of INT's. The next year when his route running improved, so did everything else. Why? Because QB's don't throw to WR's. They throw to a spot on the field. The WR, by his route running, gets the CB's and safeties to clear out from that spot enough that they can catch the ball. It's done with jukes, double moves, selling one pattern and running another, and lastly, knowing the route tree and being on the same page with the QB.

When that doesn't happen, then it results in INTs. It really is that simple.

Oh, and yes, I can definitely say Ben wasn't playing well when he came back. So what. That doesn't excuse the WR's. That doesn't negate the line's problems towards the end of this year. That doesn't take away from the fact that our RB's became pretty ineffective. And that doesn't excuse the fact that our skill players couldn't hold on to the ball, whether it was drops or fumbles.

[Steelreal]

So let's cut Ben and sign Wallace with all the cap space we'll create

I never said that. Let Wallace go and STOP making excuses for Ben and COACH him to be an elite Quarterback. How about that?

- - - Updated - - -


There isn't a word here I can disagree with.

- - - Updated - - -



Yep. Do you not remember the first year that Santonio was here? His route running was so bad it was pitiful. The result was that Ben was throwing a lot of INT's. The next year when his route running improved, so did everything else. Why? Because QB's don't throw to WR's. They throw to a spot on the field. The WR, by his route running, gets the CB's and safeties to clear out from that spot enough that they can catch the ball. It's done with jukes, double moves, selling one pattern and running another, and lastly, knowing the route tree and being on the same page with the QB.

When that doesn't happen, then it results in INTs. It really is that simple.

Oh, and yes, I can definitely say Ben wasn't playing well when he came back. So what. That doesn't excuse the WR's. That doesn't negate the line's problems towards the end of this year. That doesn't take away from the fact that our RB's became pretty ineffective. And that doesn't excuse the fact that our skill players couldn't hold on to the ball, whether it was drops or fumbles.

That holds water IF Ben was an anticipatory passer. He is not. Ben doesnt require to be on the same page with his receivers. Why? Because BR throws the ball when the receiver "Shows open" it doesnt allow them for much Yac afterwards. Sorry to blame Wallace for that int is wrong and EVERY expert agrees with me.

[X-Terminator]

http://s1.postimage.org/cklbcmupr/Wallace_Out_Route.jpg

Just posted this in the Wallace thread. Thought it was relevant to the Roethlisberger conversation. The pick against Dallas in OT - here is the route Wallace ran. The progression in this photo is actually a little generous to Mike do to the camera zooming out - the pattern was actually run even worse than it looks.

Assuming this was a 10 yard out Ben put the ball exactly where it needed to be and Carr was able to jump it do to poor route running by Wallace - which cost us the game.

Thank you very much for killing this thread, Seven. Not because of your post, mind you, because it's an interesting perspective. It's because you've allowed a certain someone to crash yet ANOTHER thread with Ben hate. Your punishment is to watch 24 hours of Cleveland Browns football and no longer being allowed to drink premium beer.

[Steelreal]

Thank you very much for killing this thread, Seven. Not because of your post, mind you, because it's an interesting perspective. It's because you've allowed a certain someone to crash yet ANOTHER thread with Ben hate. Your punishment is to watch 24 hours of Cleveland Browns football and no longer being allowed to drink premium beer.

You call it Ben hate because you dont like my angle. I dont like yours either but do I call for you to be banned? Do I call for the thread to be closed? Absolutely not I just refute all the MANY excuses for mediocre play and you HATE that. If I hated Ben I would be saying BEN IS A BUM, BEN SUCKS, TRADE BEN,

I never say that. However, I do say that he is not Elite and I not only say it, I prove it. Perhaps YOU could explain why in nine years Ben Roethlisberger SELDOMLY lights up a good defense. Can you answer without an excuse?

[43Hitman]

Thank you very much for killing this thread, Seven. Not because of your post, mind you, because it's an interesting perspective. It's because you've allowed a certain someone to crash yet ANOTHER thread with Ben hate. Your punishment is to watch 24 hours of Cleveland Browns football and no longer being allowed to drink premium beer.

The guy needs a vacation if you ask me. He's not contributing to the board except for stirring up crap.

[zulater]

You call it Ben hate because you dont like my angle. I dont like yours either but do I call for you to be banned? Do I call for the thread to be closed? Absolutely not I just refute all the MANY excuses for mediocre play and you HATE that. If I hated Ben I would be saying BEN IS A BUM, BEN SUCKS, TRADE BEN,

I never say that. However, I do say that he is not Elite and I not only say it, I prove it. Perhaps YOU could explain why in nine years Ben Roethlisberger SELDOMLY lights up a good defense. Can you answer without an excuse?

I know he's banned, but I've got to address this nonetheless in the event he's out there still browsing our board.

Dude you didn't refute one single thing from the original post in this thread or anything that I've posted on it thereafter.
I did some research and came up with actual facts that highlight the difference in Ben's play before and after his injury. Those facts also dispute the ridiculous notion you claim to be fact that Ben can't read defense's. 63% conversion rate on 3rd and long prior to his inuries completely blows that claim out of the water!


Also on other threads you claimed Ben was entirely reliant on play action to attack downfield. So how many 3rd and longs were converted due to play action? You really think defense's are biting on play action on 3rd and long? :doh:

And you claim Ben is not elite, but you've proven it to no one other than yourself.

Bloviating is all you've done since you've come to this board, and that's why you're banned.

Troll.