It's not just Ben that questions the coaching

[stillers4me]

Maybe it's time for a reality check all around....from players on up.


There was plenty of blame to go around after Andy Dalton completed a gutsy 21-yard sideline throw to A.J. Green that set up Josh Brown‘s winning 43-yard field goal with four seconds left. The only other Bengals points came off an interception and an earlier 41-yard field goal.

A disgusted James Harrison wasn‘t blaming just the players, either, only a week after Roethlisberger criticized offensive coordinator Todd Haley‘s play calling.

“We‘ve got to do a better job as players of playing the game, individually and collectively,” Harrison said. “And we have to do a better job as coaches, coaching the game and putting our players in positions to make plays.”

He wouldn‘t elaborate.

“Like I said, we have to do a better job as players of playing and a better job by the coaches of coaching,” Harrison said.

A few minutes before Harrison spoke, coach Mike Tomlin, general manager Kevin Colbert, chairman Dan Rooney and team president Art Rooney II huddled privately. The somber look on their faces told the tale of a season in which the Steelers haven‘t resembled the team that went 12-4 in three of the previous four seasons.

They haven‘t been the same team from week to week, as a dozen starters have missed multiple games to injury, including all of their big names. When the offense has played well, the defense hasn‘t and vice versa.

“There are just some things, obviously, that we‘re lacking,” Troy Polamalu said.

The defense that couldn‘t hold fourth-quarter leads in losses to the Broncos, Raiders, Titans and Cowboys was mostly superlative. Cornerback Cortez Allen had two interceptions and forced a fumble, and the Bengals — a running machine of late — amassed only 14 yards on the ground.

But the Steelers‘ offense was 2 for 14 on third downs and didn‘t score off the Allen-created turnovers. The only big play was a 60-yard Roethlisberger-to-Antonio Brown touchdown pass with 1:09 left before halftime.

“We were never on the same page the whole year,” receiver Mike Wallace said. “When you have the potential on the team that we had, the talent, but you don‘t make it happen, it‘s frustrating. It just never came together the whole time. It just wasn‘t our year, man.”

It all makes for an unusual end-of-season‘s greeting for the Steelers: Wait till next year.


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3185448-74/game-steelers-bengals#ixzz2Fvn5kokL

[Shoes]

There are just some things, obviously, that we‘re lacking,” Troy Polamalu said.

The frightening thing is the coaching staff isn't able to tell them what is lacking. This has been voiced over and over by the vet players this year.

Hopefully this will be a sign to start and get things on track...

"A few minutes before Harrison spoke, coach Mike Tomlin, general manager Kevin Colbert, chairman Dan Rooney and team president Art Rooney II huddled privately".

[Chidi29]

I'm not sure if I would cal it a "reality check" because I really don't think we were in a position to be cocky or thinking we were/are untouchable.

Just a time to refocus and reevaluate.

[Crow-Magnon]

Hard to question the coaching when you throw two costly INT's in the past two games, wouldn't you say?

[Count Steeler]

Hard to question the coaching when you throw two costly INT's in the past two games, wouldn't you say?

Lots of issues to get worked out. We will be back.

[jmen09]

If we don't come out so conservative to open the game, I don't think it comes down to the ints. We waste possessions, and I can't stand it. Run run pass....run run pass.....run run pass....just sickening.

[The Bark]

Hard to question the coaching when you throw two costly INT's in the past two games, wouldn't you say?

No, unless you're one of those people who thinks games come down to one play - which is ridiculous. The offense in particular failed to make adjustments and continued to do a slow waltz through the first quarters of the last seven or eight games.

Can't lay that all on BR because he didn't play in three of them.

There's enough blame to be spread around and the coaching staff isn't immune.

[Seven]

Hard to question the coaching when you throw two costly INT's in the past two games, wouldn't you say?

Not necessarily. This team has no business being tied with the Bengals in the dwindling moments of a game - not to say that it isn't their own fault. But this offense isn't as condusive to last minute comeback drives as the previous system that was installed here was. But regardless of that, it never should have gotten to the point where we needed to comeback to win. This week or last. So while Roethlisberger undoubtedly deserves blame, I'm more upset that he was put into that scenario than I am that he failed in it.

[GBMelBlount]

“We were never on the same page the whole year,” receiver Mike Wallace said. “When you have the potential on the team that we had, the talent, but you don‘t make it happen, it‘s frustrating. It just never came together the whole time. It just wasn‘t our year, man.”

I gotta agree with Wallace that our team is loaded with talent and can't seem to get on the same page.

While coaching is an issue I think Ben should be focusing on his own shortcomings which are many imo.

The two things that have been relatively consistent imo on our offense since Ben has been here is low scoring and low red zone efficiency.

There is no doubt in my mind that Ben has benefitted greatly by having the #1 defense in the entire NFL during his tenure.

The three keys to success I see in 2013 are the same as every year:

1. Scoring more points

2. Scoring more points

3. Scoring more points.

To me, this rests as much on Ben's shoulder's as the coaches or anyone else.

As to effed up coaching, the decision to play Ben last year while injured was completely short sighted and neanderthal.

They did the same thing this year with the exact same results.

Same thing with these long field goal decisions.

It seems that Tomlin not only makes poor decisions but does not learn from his mistakes.

Just one man's opinion but I have Tomlin and Ben as the goats this year.

However already looking forward to a great drat and great 2013 for the black and gold! :tt02:

[SteelerFanInStl]

When your players aren't "on the same page", that's a problem with the coaching. I won't be upset to see a number of our coaches gone before next season.

[zulater]

When your players aren't "on the same page", that's a problem with the coaching. I won't be upset to see a number of our coaches gone before next season.

The conditioning coach needs replaced. Anyone else notice that gut Dwyer carries around on him?

[Moose]

I'm not pin pointing 1 or 2 people as GOAT CRAP of this year's team, I'm saying the whole damn organization was GOAT CRAP this year....from top to bottom. Start with the top- the FO failed to recognize the problem and correct it from season start, 2nd- the coaching staff never had this team prepared to play from the season start, every damn game the players came out dumb founded and had no idea what to do. Just like a bunch of rookie players thrown on the field. They looked foolish the whole damn year....every damn game. 3rd- the players themselves. The vet players never kicked butt. The vet players never got into the other players ass and made them step up. Ben is an 'okay' QB. Sorry, but he's NOT an elite QB, he's not a great QB, he's not a real good QB....just a okay QB. He should have never thrown that last pass that was intercepted. End of game, tied, play off results in the future...he should have known better to not throw as a 'hope' pass. He win's games for us, and he losses games for us. He seems to always have his 1 or 2 interceptions a game. Some leads to a lost, some don't. But either way, we GIVE the opponent points they didn't deserve. Cincy game we gave them 10 out of 13 points. They only deserved 3 points !! They should have never been close to us. We should have pounded them from the start. With our so called 'talent' we should have stomped their asses by 3 TDs at least. Pathetic. Heads should roll on the cincy game alone, not counting the other 5 losses to bottom feeders we had. NO play-off caliber team should or would put up with that type of play. This year should be enough reason to clean house so to speak. IF no changes are made, next year will be the same. Guaranteed. Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[zulater]

I'm not pin pointing 1 or 2 people as GOAT CRAP of this year's team, I'm saying the whole damn organization was GOAT CRAP this year....from top to bottom. Start with the top- the FO failed to recognize the problem and correct it from season start, 2nd- the coaching staff never had this team prepared to play from the season start, every damn game the players came out dumb founded and had no idea what to do. Just like a bunch of rookie players thrown on the field. They looked foolish the whole damn year....every damn game. 3rd- the players themselves. The vet players never kicked butt. The vet players never got into the other players ass and made them step up. Ben is an 'okay' QB. Sorry, but he's NOT an elite QB, he's not a great QB, he's not a real good QB....just a okay QB. He win's games for us, and he losses games for us. He seems to always have his 1 or 2 interceptions a game. Some leads to a lost, some don't. But either way, we GIVE the opponent points they didn't deserve. Cincy game we gave them 10 out of 13 points. They only deserved 3 points !! Pathetic. Heads should roll on the cincy game alone, not counting the other 5 losses to bottom feeders we had. NO play-off caliber team should or would put up with that type of play. This year should be enough reason to clean house so to speak. IF no changes are made, next year will be the same. Guaranteed. Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

:crazy:

[Moose]

:crazy:

Too bad you have problems understanding that.

[zulater]

Too bad you have problems understanding that.

Too bad you have no apprreciation for a qb who helped get this team to 3 Super Bowls in his first 9 seasons.

[Moose]

Too bad you have no apprreciation for a qb who helped get this team to 3 Super Bowls in his first 9 seasons.

I never said I don't appreciate Ben, don't read between the lines. I said he's okay!! He also had some good RBs and WRs that got us to 3 SBs. He damn sure didn't do it by himself. There was a pretty damn good team AROUND him and a coaching staff, which this year didn't perform.

[zulater]

I never said I don't appreciate Ben, don't read between the lines. I said he's okay!! He also had some good RBs and WRs that got us to 3 SBs. He damn sure didn't do it by himself. There was a pretty damn good team AROUND him and a coaching staff, which this year didn't perform.

He's a lot more than "ok".

[Steelreal]

You notice the ONLY time an expert mentions Ben Roethlisberger with the elite quarterbacks is only when the Steelers are playing on national Tv. When they are forced to. If anyone thinks Ben Roethlisberger is elite then he is a homer or nuts. Ben Roethlisberger boasts lofty TEAM stats. Individually, he is average.

- - - Updated - - -

In those THREE Super Bowls Roethlisberger has 3 TDS and 5 INTS. A 60 rating. How is that great? We could get that from Batch. Hell we beat the Ravens with a BUM (Batch) Ben is giving us good qb stats not elite ones. Is Ben worth 100 million? He has only exceeded 10 TDs ONCE in 9 years. He has missed the playoffs THREE times in his career. With a number 1 defense and THIS CREAMPUFF schedule?



2012 REGULAR SEASON GAME LOG
PASSING
RUSHING


DATE
OPP
RESULT
CMP
ATT
YDS
CMP%
AVG
LNG
TD
INT
QBR
RAT
ATT
YDS
AVG
LNG
TD


Sun 9/9


@

DEN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/den/denver-broncos)


L 19-31 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=320909007)
22
40
245
55.0
6.13
27
2
1
47.3
79.7
2
4
2.0
2
0


Sun 9/16


vs

NYJ (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/nyj/new-york-jets)


W 27-10 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=320916023)
24
31
275
77.4
8.87
37
2
0
93.4
125.1
0
0
0.0
0
0


Sun 9/23


@

OAK (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/oak/oakland-raiders)


L 31-34 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=320923013)
36
49
384
73.5
7.84
22
4
0
91.0
123.2
1
8
8.0
8
0


Sun 10/7


vs

PHI (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-eagles)


W 16-14 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321007023)
22
38
220
57.9
5.79
20
1
0
48.0
83.2
3
14
4.7
9
0


Thu 10/11


@

TEN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/ten/tennessee-titans)


L 23-26 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321011010)
24
40
363
60.0
9.08
82
1
1
76.0
87.8
1
14
14.0
14
0


Sun 10/21


@

CIN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/cin/cincinnati-bengals)


W 24-17 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321021004)
27
37
278
73.0
7.51
31
1
1
69.8
92.0
1
-1
-1.0
-1
0


Sun 10/28


vs

WSH (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/wsh/washington-redskins)


W 27-12 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321028023)
24
33
222
72.7
6.73
27
3
0
90.2
121.0
2
6
3.0
3
0


Sun 11/4


@

NYG (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/nyg/new-york-giants)


W 24-20 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321104019)
21
30
216
70.0
7.20
51
2
1
41.2
98.8
4
-1
-0.3
5
0


Mon 11/12


vs

KC (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/kc/kansas-city-chiefs)


W 16-13 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321112023) (OT)
9
18
84
50.0
4.67
20
1
0
60.6
81.7
1
14
14.0
14
0


Sun 12/9


vs

SD (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/sd/san-diego-chargers)


L 24-34 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321209023)
22
42
285
52.4
6.79
40
3
1
34.7
87.9
5
31
6.2
10
0


Sun 12/16


@

DAL (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/dal/dallas-cowboys)


L 24-27 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321216006) (OT)
24
40
339
60.0
8.48
60
2
1
60.1
93.6
2
2
1.0
3
0


Sun 12/23


vs

CIN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/cin/cincinnati-bengals)


L 10-13 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321223023)
14
28
220
50.0
7.86
60
1
2
7.1
58.6
2
3
1.5
4
0


REGULAR SEASON STATS
269
426
3,131
63.1
7.35
82
23
8
61.3
95.5
24
94
3.9
14
0

[zulater]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_career.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm


Yeah, he's just "ok". :sarcasm:

[Moose]

He's a lot more than "ok".

I'm not arguing this senseless point.

[43Hitman]

Fuck, I think I need a bit of a hiatus from this board. Every damn thread is turning into a hate BR thread, and it's fucking ridiculous.

[zulater]

I'm not arguing this senseless point.

What's senseless is saying Ben's just been an "ok" qb for the Steelers throughout his career. Outside of the resident troll you wont get much agreement on that here or anywhere else sensible people post.

Go ahead, so on twitter, ask Jaws, Dilfer, Steve Young, tell them how at best Big Ben's career value as a Steeler can be best summed up as ok.

[Steelreal]

Fuck, I think I need a bit of a hiatus from this board. Every damn thread is turning into a hate BR thread, and it's fucking ridiculous.

I have never said I hate Ben. I simply dont think he is elite. Thats what I say and I prove it. Why do you get mad if its not true?

[Moose]

Zu, the team as had talent on this team that made Ben look good. He's won games for us with his style of play, but then again he's lost games because of it. He seems to have his share of interceptions in every game that hurt us. Some throws that shouldn't have been made, such as his last interception in the cincy game. As you are aware there are a few QB out there that are better than Ben, you have to admit it, don't just be a homer. Ben can be alot better. I think he is good enough where if he doesn't like a play called by Haley, then change the call. I'm sure Tomlin would side with him, if not than maybe Tomlin doesn't have the faith in Ben. So, what would that say about Ben ? I like Ben and I'm glad he's on our team. I just don't think he's reached the awesome rank yet. That's just my opinion Zu.

[zulater]

Zu, the team as had talent on this team that made Ben look good. He's won games for us with his style of play, but then again he's lost games because of it. He seems to have his share of interceptions in every game that hurt us. Some throws that shouldn't have been made, such as his last interception in the cincy game. As you are aware there are a few QB out there that are better than Ben, you have to admit it, don't just be a homer. Ben can be alot better. I think he is good enough where if he doesn't like a play called by Haley, then change the call. I'm sure Tomlin would side with him, if not than maybe Tomlin doesn't have the faith in Ben. So, what would that say about Ben ? I like Ben and I'm glad he's on our team. I just don't think he's reached the awesome rank yet. That's just my opinion Zu.

Saying he's not awesome is one thing. Saying he's just ok is something else.

I see a lot of talented teams in this league that fall short of the Super bowl every year. The Ravens year after year. The Eagles for the past 15 years. The Bears of the past half decade. The Steelers teams of the 90's and early 2000's. And quarterback play is often why these very talented teams continiously fell short.

Granted Ben underperfomed in SB XL. But how did we get there? Ben played 3 exceptional road playoff games. He outplayed Peyton Manning in Indy!

SB XLIII. Ben sure showed up that day!

Hell 2010 and 2011 we won 12 games both seasons and advanced to the SB in 10! I think Ben was more than along for the ride.

Good quaterbacks don't grow on trees. Look at the Dolphins since Marino retired in 2000. Think they wouldn't want Ben? What about the Broncos from the time Elway retired until this season? Look at that cavlacade of mediocrity and then tell me Ben's just ok?

[Steelreal]

Zu, the team as had talent on this team that made Ben look good. He's won games for us with his style of play, but then again he's lost games because of it. He seems to have his share of interceptions in every game that hurt us. Some throws that shouldn't have been made, such as his last interception in the cincy game. As you are aware there are a few QB out there that are better than Ben, you have to admit it, don't just be a homer. Ben can be alot better. I think he is good enough where if he doesn't like a play called by Haley, then change the call. I'm sure Tomlin would side with him, if not than maybe Tomlin doesn't have the faith in Ben. So, what would that say about Ben ? I like Ben and I'm glad he's on our team. I just don't think he's reached the awesome rank yet. That's just my opinion Zu.

The truth hurts bro and this board is exibit A

[fansince'76]

Granted Ben underperfomed in SB XL. But how did we get there? Ben played 3 exceptional road playoff games. He outplayed Peyton Manning in Indy!

He also saved our asses on that fumble by the Bus. That was an extremely heads-up play.

[43Hitman]

The truth hurts bro and this board is exibit A


Nobody's making you stay so....

[katmandu]

I gotta agree with Wallace that our team is loaded with talent and can't seem to get on the same page.

Perhaps this is why they can't all get on the same page.


They haven‘t been the same team from week to week, as a dozen starters have missed multiple games to injury, including all of their big names.

- - - Updated - - -


When your players aren't "on the same page", that's a problem with the coaching.Right.....and this (below) has NO effect on players not being on the same page.


They haven‘t been the same team from week to week, as a dozen starters have missed multiple games to injury, including all of their big names.

[dislocatedday]

Here's another thing that has not been pointed out in all these BR posts/threads over the last day (but has been pointed out previously)...............Ben has played behind a very weak O-line for the majority of his career, with the first two years being the exception. This last year the O-line showed promise, but the injuries doomed that unit again. On those occassions where the O-line consistently provided Ben time to throw in a game, I saw him pick apart defenses consistently if my memory is correct. I'm not sure any of the "elite" QBs could have performed at a high level behind the lines the Steelers have trotted onto the field for many years. Ben succeeded despite the O-line. He is a winner and has proved it for 9 years. Granted, players such as Brady and Brees are awesome QBs, but they have also had stellar O-line units for most of their careers. I really want to see how Ben fares behind a very good and consistent O-line unit, which I am hopeful will be the case next season.

[Count Steeler]

Here's another thing that has not been pointed out in all these BR posts/threads over the last day (but has been pointed out previously)...............Ben has played behind a very weak O-line for the majority of his career, with the first two years being the exception. This last year the O-line showed promise, but the injuries doomed that unit again. On those occassions where the O-line consistently provided Ben time to throw in a game, I saw him pick apart defenses consistently if my memory is correct. I'm not sure any of the "elite" QBs could have performed at a high level behind the lines the Steelers have trotted onto the field for many years. Ben succeeded despite the O-line. He is a winner and has proved it for 9 years. Granted, players such as Brady and Brees are awesome QBs, but they have also had stellar O-line units for most of their careers. I really want to see how Ben fares behind a very good and consistent O-line unit, which I am hopeful will be the case next season.

We got a little taste of that mid season. It would be nice to gel together, but I am expecting injuries to screw us up next year as well. I am jaded now, even Miller may not be ready at the start of next season.

[stillers4me]

I have never said I hate Ben. I simply dont think he is elite. Thats what I say and I prove it.


It's abundantly clear that's your opinion. You don't need to turn every thread into "I've got to prove Ben is not elite" rant, because you are proving nothing other than that's your opinion. Do not continue to hijack every thread this way.

[zulater]

I'm not sure if I would cal it a "reality check" because I really don't think we were in a position to be cocky or thinking we were/are untouchable.

Just a time to refocus and reevaluate.

Good way to put it.

- - - Updated - - -


Here's another thing that has not been pointed out in all these BR posts/threads over the last day (but has been pointed out previously)...............Ben has played behind a very weak O-line for the majority of his career, with the first two years being the exception. This last year the O-line showed promise, but the injuries doomed that unit again. On those occassions where the O-line consistently provided Ben time to throw in a game, I saw him pick apart defenses consistently if my memory is correct. I'm not sure any of the "elite" QBs could have performed at a high level behind the lines the Steelers have trotted onto the field for many years. Ben succeeded despite the O-line. He is a winner and has proved it for 9 years. Granted, players such as Brady and Brees are awesome QBs, but they have also had stellar O-line units for most of their careers. I really want to see how Ben fares behind a very good and consistent O-line unit, which I am hopeful will be the case next season.

Good posting Teddy!

[SteelerFanInStl]

It's abundantly clear that's your opinion. You don't need to turn every thread into "I've got to prove Ben is not elite" rant, because you are proving nothing other than that's your opinion. Do not continue to hijack every thread this way.

Yes, 100%! I'm tired of seeing that crap in every f'ing thread on here. That's all that he's done since he joined this forum.

[Moose]

Good point dislocdatedday !

[steel striker]

Look could have been a different story if we would have had a healthy Ben for the last three weeks of the season but, that is neither here or there now. Plus when you lose to teams that really you should beat that's what maked you wonder about things. Back to Ben he is the best Qb here since Bradshaw hands down and, he is one of the best Qb's in the NFL. It gets old debating who is elite. I have seen atleast a dozen games that Ben has pulled magic for this team to win games. When you have to run for your life and, extend plays like Ben has to do here sometimes you are going to make mistakes throw bad picks. Like Tomlin said back in 2008 sometimes the gunslinger gets shot! You live with the good and the bad. We are not used to living with the bad from Ben.