Roethlisberger

[GBMelBlount]

Regardless of the reason there seem to have been a few fairly consistent things about our offense since Ben has been here.

Not very high scoring nor very good in the red zone.

Not an indictment of Ben but just pointing out that much of what we have accomplished since Ben has been here is due to the fact we have had the #1 defense in the nfl over his tenure.

Sorry, just very frustrated and venting at the moment...

[Steelreal]

Not to mention that Ben is 10-4 in the playoffs with 20 TDs and 17 INTS. He has missed the playoffs in 06, 09 and now 12. With the weapons he is afforded, that is underachieving. But lets blame Haley, Tomlin, Wallace, the line etc

[43Hitman]

Ben is the goat today. Terrible outing by him.

[Steelreal]

Thank you for being honest. A lot of people just cant come to grips with the truth

[JayC]

im sure within a week or two they will say how badly he is injured as if that is the reason we blow.

[dislocatedday]

Ben was not good today, but the Oline was just as bad. For once I would like to see what he can do behind a consistently good O-line. I was hopeful this was the year the o-line came together, but the injuries again derailed this unit.

[stillers4me]

Ben being Ben trying to do too much.

My only consolation is that the Bengals will be short lived in the playoffs.

[steelpride12]

He's not 100% what do you epect! I'll even make the bold prediction and say that if Batch would have played the rest of the regular season games when Ben went down, we would be in the playoffs.

[steel9guy]

Ben hasn't been the same since the Giants game.

[Steelreal]

He's not 100%, The Oline, Tomlin, Haley. You guys are incredible. Hes not 100%? Based on what? He looked 100% to me. Ben habitually plays average or below average vs a good defense. This has been the case his whole career. Check his stats vs a good D and prove me wrong. Was he hurt for 9 years? Next excuse

[steelerdude15]

Not to mention that Ben is 10-4 in the playoffs with 20 TDs and 17 INTS. He has missed the playoffs in 06, 09 and now 12. With the weapons he is afforded, that is underachieving. But lets blame Haley, Tomlin, Wallace, the line etc

We know we know, Ben is the reason why the Steelers are such an awful team and haven't done anything since Super Bowl 43. Ben is holding us back and the Steelers will never win another Super Bowl with him as starting QB.

[GBMelBlount]

He's not 100% what do you epect! I'll even make the bold prediction and say that if Batch would have played the rest of the regular season games when Ben went down, we would be in the playoffs.

LOL! Everybody screams to rush him back and he sucks EXACTLY like he did when they rushed him back while injured last year and THEN everyone blames it on the injury.

I will repeat what I said last year and this year. They should've played Batch. He was the last good offensive performance our team had the past two last years.

People never learn.

[stillers4me]

He's not 100%, The Oline, Tomlin, Haley. You guys are incredible. Hes not 100%? Based on what? He looked 100% to me. Ben habitually plays average or below average vs a good defense. This has been the case his whole career. Check his stats vs a good D and prove me wrong. Was he hurt for 9 years? Next excuse

And everybody knows the Steelers are entitled to win the Superbowl each and every year.

[steelpride12]

LOL! Everybody screams to rush him back and he sucks EXACTLY like he did when they rushed him back while injured and THEN everyone blames it on the injury.

I still say they should've played batch. Last good offensive performance our team had....just like last year.

People never learn.
Exactly. Dumb FUCKS on here wanted Ben back right away hahahahahaha so foolish. SEE WHAT HE DID FOR YOU!!! lost the end of the seasons and we didn't even make the playoffs lawl. Batch for Pres.

[Steelreal]

We know we know, Ben is the reason why the Steelers are such an awful team and haven't done anything since Super Bowl 43. Ben is holding us back and the Steelers will never win another Super Bowl with him as starting QB.

I never said that but you guys say he is elite. I certainly DO NOT. I have never said Ben Roethlisberger sucks. I have said that he is inconsistent, good but not Elite. He keeps proving me right.

[steelerdude15]

I never said that but you guys say he is elite. I certainly DO NOT. I have never said Ben Roethlisberger sucks. I have said that he is inconsistent, good but not Elite. He keeps proving me right.

The things you say about him, you make him out to be a bad QB. You're constantly criticizing him. I have yet to see you give him credit for anything. Yeah, he's the not best QB in the NFL, but when it comes down to it, what would this team be without him? I guarantee the Steelers wouldn't have six Lombardi's if it wasn't for him. Not only that, he is the most important and best player on this team.

[katmandu]

He's not 100%, The Oline, Tomlin, Haley. You guys are incredible. Hes not 100%? Based on what? He looked 100% to me. Ben habitually plays average or below average vs a good defense. This has been the case his whole career. Check his stats vs a good D and prove me wrong. Was he hurt for 9 years? Next excuseYea, Ben sucks. Get rid of him. :crazy:

[steelerdude15]

He's not 100%, The Oline, Tomlin, Haley. You guys are incredible. Hes not 100%? Based on what? He looked 100% to me. Ben habitually plays average or below average vs a good defense. This has been the case his whole career. Check his stats vs a good D and prove me wrong. Was he hurt for 9 years? Next excuse

And another thing, you're saying that the play calling has been wonderful this year and that Tomlin hasn't made any bad decisions?

[Steelreal]

And another thing, you're saying that the play calling has been wonderful this year and that Tomlin hasn't made any bad decisions?

I'm saying an elite quarterback is not DEPENDENT on a Coach. Do you think Brady, Rodgers, Mannings and Brees are handcuffed by a coach? The coach sends in a play and a elite quarterback looks at the defense and if the called play wont work, he will change it to a better one. Thats elite quarterbacking. Tomlin had made some bad decisions YES. But he wasnt the reason we lost this game. BEN WAS. He played poorly. Bengals dont respect him as a passer as they demonstrated by putting 8 in the box. Did he audible to a pass like a smart qb should? No he didnt. He just handed the ball of and expected 6 blockers to block 8. Sorry, that is not the coaches fault. Lastly, Dalton is in his 2nd year and Ben is in his NINTH. Who has more upside? I would dare to say Dalton. Very cerebral youngster in my opinion.

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The things you say about him, you make him out to be a bad QB. You're constantly criticizing him. I have yet to see you give him credit for anything. Yeah, he's the not best QB in the NFL, but when it comes down to it, what would this team be without him? I guarantee the Steelers wouldn't have six Lombardi's if it wasn't for him. Not only that, he is the most important and best player on this team.

Ben has a 60 rating in THREE Super Bowls. He is 10-4 in the playoffs with 20TDs and 17 INTS.I would hardly say that he is the PRIMARY reason we win. I would argue its the defense. If Batch had those stats would you call him a stud. Ben is good but not elite. That is what I consistently say.

[JayC]

might it be true that ben is not capable of being great without playing school yard football?? im at least starting to give it some consideration. the more stiff and older and banged up he gets the more he needs to be a defense reading pocket passer or we will see an even worse offense in the next few years. obviously the FO is spending high picks on offensive linemen to try and help and changed the OC with a key reasoning of getting the ball out faster to avoid more hits but this offense was even worse this year for the most part. almost everyone can tell he isn't a haley fan either. i have no idea but i get the feeling haley probably wants him to study the game more and better read defenses but ben probably just shrugs him off and shows him his rings. ive had the feeling all year this offense is a dysfunctional unit and it feels like the magic is gone from ben. sure we can look at all the injuries and lay some of the blame there but i think that's only half the story.

[Steelreal]

might it be true that ben is not capable of being great without playing school yard football?? im at least starting to give it some consideration. the more stiff and older and banged up he gets the more he needs to be a defense reading pocket passer or we will see an even worse offense in the next few years. obviously the FO is spending high picks on offensive linemen to try and help and changed the OC with a key reasoning of getting the ball out faster to avoid more hits but this offense was even worse this year for the most part. almost everyone can tell he isn't a haley fan either. i have no idea but i get the feeling haley probably wants him to study the game more and better read defenses but ben probably just shrugs him off and shows him his rings. ive had the feeling all year this offense is a dysfunctional unit and it feels like the magic is gone from ben. sure we can look at all the injuries and lay some of the blame there but i think that's only half the story.

Nice post bro

[steelerdude15]

I'm saying an elite quarterback is not DEPENDENT on a Coach. Do you think Brady, Rodgers, Mannings and Brees are handcuffed by a coach? The coach sends in a play and a elite quarterback looks at the defense and if the called play wont work, he will change it to a better one. Thats elite quarterbacking. Tomlin had made some bad decisions YES. But he wasnt the reason we lost this game. BEN WAS. He played poorly. Bengals dont respect him as a passer as they demonstrated by putting 8 in the box. Did he audible to a pass like a smart qb should? No he didnt. He just handed the ball of and expected 6 blockers to block 8. Sorry, that is not the coaches fault. Lastly, Dalton is in his 2nd year and Ben is in his NINTH. Who has more upside? I would dare to say Dalton. Very cerebral youngster in my opinion.

There have been plenty of times where Ben has changed a play before he's snapped it. There have been times where the names mentioned in your post haven't.

I'm not blaming this lost on Tomlin. Yes there were bad plays called and some questionable decisions, but in no way was it his fault.

How on Earth does Dalton have more upside? I want evidence.

[Steelreal]

Regardless of the reason there seem to have been a few fairly consistent things about our offense since Ben has been here.

Not very high scoring nor very good in the red zone.

Not an indictment of Ben but just pointing out that much of what we have accomplished since Ben has been here is due to the fact we have had the #1 defense in the nfl over his tenure.

Sorry, just very frustrated and venting at the moment...

You dont have to be sorry. Its an accurate post

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There have been plenty of times where Ben has changed a play before he's snapped it. There have been times where the names mentioned in your post haven't.

I'm not blaming this lost on Tomlin. Yes there were bad plays called and some questionable decisions, but in no way was it his fault.

How on Earth does Dalton have more upside? I want evidence.

He is younger, He is smarter, He is more accurate and he is a better student of the game.

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There have been plenty of times where Ben has changed a play before he's snapped it. There have been times where the names mentioned in your post haven't.

I'm not blaming this lost on Tomlin. Yes there were bad plays called and some questionable decisions, but in no way was it his fault.

How on Earth does Dalton have more upside? I want evidence.

Name ONE time in 9 years that Ben has audibled and it resulted in a big play. Not saying he hasnt just want you to name one.

[steelerdude15]

You dont have to be sorry. Its an accurate post

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He is younger, He is smarter, He is more accurate and he is a better student of the game.

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Name ONE time in 9 years that Ben has audibled and it resulted in a big play. Not saying he hasnt just want you to name one.

I think it would be more of an accurate comparison if you compared Ben in his second year vs Dalton now. At this point in time, Ben is a smart QB. He has more experience and I've seen some really inconsistent play out of Dalton as well.

To answer you're question, I can't name one play where its turned into a huge gain or touchdown. There have been plenty of times he has that has resulted in first downs or extra yardage.

[Steelreal]

Ben in his 2nd year was a game manager. Dalton is not. He is asked to do more than Ben even in his 2nd season. Ben is not cerebral and when he gets around coaches that try to make him so, he rebels. Wiz, Cowher and now Haley.

[steelerdude15]

Ben in his 2nd year was a game manager. Dalton is not. He is asked to do more than Ben even in his 2nd season. Ben is not cerebral and when he gets around coaches that try to make him so, he rebels. Wiz, Cowher and now Haley.

If you we're to compare Ben in his second year and Dalton now, I would give it to Dalton being the better QB. Since we're comparing Ben now to Dalton now, I would give it to Ben. Let me ask you this, since you think that Dalton has more upside, who would you rather have as the starter for the Steelers. Ben or Dalton?

[X-Terminator]

Oy vey...

OK, let's just dump Ben since obviously he sucks balls, and watch this team not win another SB for another 30 years. I'm sure Steelreal would be just thrilled with that.

[WesternPAexpatriate]

Oy vey...

OK, let's just dump Ben since obviously he sucks balls, and watch this team not win another SB for another 30 years. I'm sure Steelreal would be just thrilled with that.

Get a real backup (the Redskins backup may be on the market) and maybe they won't play him hurt so much.

[Steelreal]

Ben will get hurt soon he is too stupid to use his mind. How long do you think his run around and extend play style will work? I'll take a smart quarterback over and rich mans Tebow anyday. However, Dalton has only played 2 seasons and I wouldnt give up on Ben for Dalton in such a short sample size

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Get a real backup (the Redskins backup may be on the market) and maybe they won't play him hurt so much.

I would LOVE to have Cousins. Ben would get hurt and Cousins wouldnt give him his job back.

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Oy vey...

OK, let's just dump Ben since obviously he sucks balls, and watch this team not win another SB for another 30 years. I'm sure Steelreal would be just thrilled with that.

I have NEVER said to dump Ben. I have just said and PROVED that he is not elite. What is wrong with that? We dont need an elite quarterback in Pitt. Only a CONSISTENT one

[WesternPAexpatriate]

Ben will get hurt soon he is too stupid to use his mind. How long do you think his run around and extend play style will work? I'll take a smart quarterback over and rich mans Tebow anyday. However, Dalton has only played 2 seasons and I wouldnt give up on Ben for Dalton in such a short sample size

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I would LOVE to have Cousins. Ben would get hurt and Cousins wouldnt give him his job back.

Ben is more talented than Cousins. But Cousins is better than either Batch or Leftwich.

[zulater]

Ben played the worst game of his career today. No soft soaping it, he's the only reason we didn't win today.

Going forward I'm still glad we go into the 2013 set at quarterback.

Tomlin needs to have a nice sit down with Ben and make sure he stops putting his foot in his mouth and creating off the field contraversy.

But prior to his injury Ben was leading the league in converting 3rd downs and 3rd down passer rating. So we just need to figure out how to get him back to where he was then at the start of next season and we should be a viable contender for at least the division next season.

Lastly I wouldn't trade Ben for Dalton if the Bengals threw in their first two round picks. Make no mistake Ben lost this game today, Dalton didn't win it.

[Steelreal]

Now he is. Cousins is a rookie. He looked better than a rookie Roethlisberger.

[steelerdude15]

Ben will get hurt soon he is too stupid to use his mind. How long do you think his run around and extend play style will work? I'll take a smart quarterback over and rich mans Tebow anyday. However, Dalton has only played 2 seasons and I wouldnt give up on Ben for Dalton in such a short sample size

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I would LOVE to have Cousins. Ben would get hurt and Cousins wouldnt give him his job back.

That doesn't make sense though. Why wouldn't you take the QB who is "better" and who has more "upside?" Wouldn't you want the better QB to be your starter and not the QB who isn't as good?

So you're also applying that Cousins is better than Ben? You'd rather have an unproven rookie who has only started in one game and has played in two compared to a QB who has been playing since 2004 with two SB rings? Makes perfect sense.

[zulater]

That doesn't make sense though. Why wouldn't you take the QB who is "better" and who has more "upside?" Wouldn't you want the better QB to be your starter and not the QB who isn't as good?

So you're also applying that Cousins is better than Ben? You'd rather have an unproven rookie who has only started in one game and has played in two compared to a QB who has been playing since 2004 with two SB rings?

It depends on your mindset. :troll::wink02:

[WesternPAexpatriate]

Now he is. Cousins is a rookie. He looked better than a rookie Roethlisberger.

Maybe in the highlight reel.

I live in DC. He is no Ben.

[Steelreal]

Ben played the worst game of his career today. No soft soaping it, he's the only reason we didn't win today.

Going forward I'm still glad we go into the 2013 set at quarterback.

Tomlin needs to have a nice sit down with Ben and make sure he stops putting his foot in his mouth and creating off the field contraversy.

But prior to his injury Ben was leading the league in converting 3rd downs and 3rd down passer rating. So we just need to figure out how to get him back to where he was then at the start of next season and we should be a viable contender for at leasty the division next season.

Lastly I wouldn't trade Ben for Dalton if the Bengals threw in their first two round picks. Make no mistake Ben lost this game today, Dalton didn't win it.

I apprectiate your post. But if the Bengals offered Dalton and 2 1s for Ben you say? NO????? Thats absurd. We get a younger QB and 2 more 1st round picks, we'd be set.

Prior to his injury he was great on 3rd down BUT he still and has never generated a lot of points. Ben has habitually struggled in the redzone. We lost SIX games this season WITH Ben

[WesternPAexpatriate]

That doesn't make sense though. Why wouldn't you take the QB who is "better" and who has more "upside?" Wouldn't you want the better QB to be your starter and not the QB who isn't as good?

So you're also applying that Cousins is better than Ben? You'd rather have an unproven rookie who has only started in one game and has played in two compared to a QB who has been playing since 2004 with two SB rings? Makes perfect sense.

You are right.

And why do we always have to call our Steeler star quarterbacks dumb? Ben is not dumb and neither was Terry.

[Steelreal]

Maybe in the highlight reel.

I live in DC. He is no Ben.

I live in DC too, what does that mean. Ben as a rookie just handed the ball off. Did you see what Cousins did in relief? Ben did NON of that as a rookie. (I take that Back he did that vs the Cowboys. Great game by the rook)

[43Hitman]

Now he is. Cousins is a rookie. He looked better than a rookie Roethlisberger.

You're quickly losing any credibility that you had around here with asinine statements like that.

[fansince'76]

You'd rather have an unproven rookie who has only started in one game and has played in two compared to a QB who has been playing since 2004 with two SB rings? Makes perfect sense.

And is EXACTLY how Pittsburgh West wound up with a MASSIVELY overpaid Kevin Kolb...

[Steelreal]

You are right.

And why do we always have to call our Steeler star quarterbacks dumb? Ben is not dumb and neither was Terry.

Out of all of the top tier quarterbacks WHO is dumber than Ben? Name him

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You're quickly losing any credibility that you had around here with asinine statements like that.

Prove me wrong. I'm losing credibillity on a message board?? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[WesternPAexpatriate]

I live in DC too, what does that mean. Ben as a rookie just handed the ball off. Did you see what Cousins did in relief? Ben did NON of that as a rookie. (I take that Back he did that vs the Cowboys. Great game by the rook)

Surely you jest.

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Out of all of the top tier quarterbacks WHO is dumber than Ben? Name him

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Prove me wrong. I'm losing credibillity on a message board?? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Eli?

I once referred to him as the Patrick Kennedy of pro football.

[Steelreal]

You guys wouldnt trady Ben for Dalton and TWO 1st round picks? I GUARANTEE the Rooneys would. As they should

[43Hitman]

Out of all of the top tier quarterbacks WHO is dumber than Ben? Name him

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Prove me wrong. I'm losing credibillity on a message board?? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

You're the one that is making the statement. The burden of proof is on you hotshot. I'll be waiting for your proof.

[steelerdude15]

You guys wouldnt trady Ben for Dalton and TWO 1st round picks? I GUARANTEE the Rooneys would. As they should

The Rooneys WOULDN'T do anything like that and they shouldn't.

[steeldawg]

Ben is not our problem it is our coaching staff.

[Steelreal]

Surely you jest.

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Eli?

I once referred to him as the Patrick Kennedy of pro football.

Eli is dumber than Ben? Based on what? Funny Eli doesnt take the sacks that Ben does (smarter) its funny that Eli's peers dont share that thught process. Eli is rated higher than Ben despite having lesser talent.

Ben plays with Mendenhall, Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Heath, Pouncey, Polamalu, Harrison, Woodley, Clark and Ike. He has more offensive weapons than Eli and a better D. Eli just has an elite Dline.

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You're the one that is making the statement. The burden of proof is on you hotshot. I'll be waiting for your proof.

TRANSLATION. I cant name one.

[steeldawg]

we are not getting rid of ben its ridiculous you dont get rid of your franchise qb for a season where he threw 22 tds and 8 picks. He is not in love with the offensive system and after watching the playcalling i agree with him.

[Steelreal]

Ben is not our problem it is our coaching staff.

Which Coach threw THREE picks in the the last 2 weeks. A pick 6. One to the one yard line and one to seal the game. Name the coach

[steelerdude15]

Eli is dumber than Ben? Based on what? Funny Eli doesnt take the sacks that Ben does (smarter) its funny that Eli's peers dont share that thught process. Eli is rated higher than Ben despite having lesser talent.

Ben plays with Mendenhall, Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Heath, Pouncey, Polamalu, Harrison, Woodley, Clark and Ike. He has more offensive weapons than Eli and a better D. Eli just has an elite Dline.

Eli was always a more inconsistent QB than Ben. He also had the benefit of having a better line for most of his career.

Bradshaw, Nicks, and Cruz are better than Mendy, Antonio, and Mikey. Yeah, we may have a few more targets, but those three mentioned are excellent players.

[Steelreal]

we are not getting rid of ben its ridiculous you dont get rid of your franchise qb for a season where he threw 22 tds and 8 picks. He is not in love with the offensive system and after watching the playcalling i agree with him.

Ok what has he done statistically with an offense that he LOVES?? One 30 TD season in his career. Next excuse?

[steeldawg]

Eli is dumber than Ben? Based on what? Funny Eli doesnt take the sacks that Ben does (smarter) its funny that Eli's peers dont share that thught process. Eli is rated higher than Ben despite having lesser talent.

Ben plays with Mendenhall, Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Heath, Pouncey, Polamalu, Harrison, Woodley, Clark and Ike. He has more offensive weapons than Eli and a better D. Eli just has an elite Dline.

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TRANSLATION. I cant name one.

I dont think there is a dumbness stat? Ben was also playing in a new system this season that has to be taken into consideration.

[zulater]

Ben is not our problem it is our coaching staff.

Ben was our problem the last two games. But slumps happen. You don't throw out the baby with the bath water just because he cut a wet one in the tub.

Again prior to the injury Ben was leading the league in 3rd down passing. The Steelers were leading the league in 3rd down conversions. 3rd and longs included, which dispells the notion that he's only effective on play action. Ben was being talked about as a dark horse MVP candidate.

I'm not saying the injury was why he played like shit today. But that's obviously a level of play he's capable of sustaining when playing with confidence.

They just got to figure out what happened and how to fix it.

And we've got no issue at starting qb going into 2013

[Steelreal]

Eli was always a more inconsistent QB than Ben. He also had the benefit of having a better line for most of his career.

Bradshaw, Nicks, and Cruz are better than Mendy, Antonio, and Mikey. Yeah, we may have a few more targets, but those three mentioned are excellent players.

I agree with that. Eli is asked to do more and has less talent. Eli played with Plax and Plax has better numbers with Eli. Why? Your predictable answer will be "Ben only played ONE season with Plax" Look at Eli's 1st year with Plax. See a difference?

Ben has played with Mendenhall, Bettis, Heath, Plaxico, Hines, Wallace, Sanders, Brown, Harrison, Woodley, Pouncey, Faneca,Polamalu, Clark and Hampton. Sorry Eli hasnt had that kind of talent.

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I dont think there is a dumbness stat? Ben was also playing in a new system this season that has to be taken into consideration.

Another excuse.

[43Hitman]

TRANSLATION. I cant name one.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Get real! You make asinine statements and then expect me to go on a wild goose chase to prove it for you. Lmao, you have some gall man. :troll:

[Steelreal]

Ben was our problem the last two games. But slumps happen. You don't throw out the baby with the bath water just because he cut a wet one in the tub.

Again prior to the injury Ben was leading the league in 3rd down passing. The Steelers were leading the league in 3rd down conversions. 3rd and longs included, which dispells the notion that he's only effective on play action. Ben was being talked about as a dark horse MVP candidate.

I'm not saying the injury was why he played like shit today. But that's obviously a level of play he's capable of sustaining when playing with confidence.

They just got to figure out what happened and how to fix it.

And we've got no issue at starting qb going into 2013

What does 3rd down stats mean? How many POINTS do you get for converting third downs? How many points did he put up? The league rules GUARANTEE the qb should have success. I am not seeing that success in pittsburgh. Ben will only get worse with age, not better. This is a fact.

[zulater]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Get real! You make asinine statements and then expect me to go on a wild goose chase to prove it for you. Lmao, you have some gall man. :troll:

Ignore is a wonderfull feature! :heh:

[Steelreal]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Get real! You make asinine statements and then expect me to go on a wild goose chase to prove it for you. Lmao, you have some gall man. :troll:

Dont get mad at me because your hands are empty of all proof

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Watch the "I'm putting you on ignore" statements soon. Thats what the guys who get defeated say lol

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Ignore is a wonderfull feature! :heh:

ON CUE LOL

[WesternPAexpatriate]

Ben is not our problem it is our coaching staff.

Absol-freaking-lutely!

[Steelreal]

Ok what has he done statistically with an offense that he LOVES?? One 30 TD season in his career. Next excuse?

No answer? Oh I forgot, I'm on ignore. Darn

[steelerdude15]

I agree with that. Eli is asked to do more and has less talent. Eli played with Plax and Plax has better numbers with Eli. Why? Your predictable answer will be "Ben only played ONE season with Plax" Look at Eli's 1st year with Plax. See a difference?

Ben has played with Mendenhall, Bettis, Heath, Plaxico, Hines, Wallace, Sanders, Brown, Harrison, Woodley, Pouncey, Faneca,Polamalu, Clark and Hampton. Sorry Eli hasnt had that kind of talent.

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Another excuse.

You seem to discard all the great talent that Eli has had in his career. Why do you continue to throw them aside when both QB's have had excellent teammates?

[Steelreal]

Absol-freaking-lutely!

Which coach turned the ball over? Name him

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You seem to discard all the great talent that Eli has had in his career. Why do you continue to throw them aside when both QB's have had excellent teammates?

I posted Ben's talent. Here is your chance to post Eli's.

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Regardless of the reason there seem to have been a few fairly consistent things about our offense since Ben has been here.

Not very high scoring nor very good in the red zone.

Not an indictment of Ben but just pointing out that much of what we have accomplished since Ben has been here is due to the fact we have had the #1 defense in the nfl over his tenure.

Sorry, just very frustrated and venting at the moment...

This post cannot be refuted. Enter excuses

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Oh by the way, ARIANS has had more success WITHOUT Ben than Ben has had without Arians. Arians has a rookie too. Its obvious where the problem lies to those with understanding.

[steelerdude15]

Which coach turned the ball over? Name him

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I posted Ben's talent. Here is your chance to post Eli's.

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This post cannot be refuted. Enter excuses

Tiki Barber, Plax, Shaun O' Hara, Jeremy Shockley, Amani Toomer, Brandon Jacobs, Ahmad Bradshaw, Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks, Mario Manningham, Steve Smith, Justin Tuck, Chase Blackburn, Antonio Pierce, Kenny Phillips, Osi Umenyiora, and Antrel Roll.

[steeldawg]

Dont get mad at me because your hands are empty of all proof

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Watch the "I'm putting you on ignore" statements soon. Thats what the guys who get defeated say lol

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ON CUE LOL


Roethlisberger has been one of the most efficient passers in NFL history. He currently ranks 10th all-time in NFL passer rating (92.9), 5th in yards per attempt (8.06), and 11th in completion percentage (63.24%) among quarterbacks with a minimum of 1,500 career attempts. He has the fourth highest career winning percentage (.710) as a starter in the regular season among quarterbacks with a minimum of 100 starts.

[Steelreal]

Tiki Barber, Plax, Shaun O' Hara, Jeremy Shockley, Amani Toomer, Brandon Jacobs, Ahmad Bradshaw, Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks, Mario Manningham, Steve Smith, Justin Tuck, Chase Blackburn, Antonio Pierce, Kenny Phillips, Osi Umenyiora, and Antrel Roll.

Who has the most talent? BEN

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Roethlisberger has been one of the most efficient passers in NFL history. He currently ranks 10th all-time in NFL passer rating (92.9), 5th in yards per attempt (8.06), and 11th in completion percentage (63.24%) among quarterbacks with a minimum of 1,500 career attempts. He has the fourth highest career winning percentage (.710) as a starter in the regular season among quarterbacks with a minimum of 100 starts.

And he is 10-4 in the playoffs with 20 TDS and 17 INTS. He also has a 66 rating in three Super Bowls.

[steelerdude15]

Who has the most talent? BEN

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And he is 10-4 in the playoffs with 20 TDS and 17 INTS. He also has a 66 rating in three Super Bowls.

So you want to look at playoff stats? How about Eli's stats in the playoffs? They aren't that great either. Remember all the interceptions Eli threw in the 2007 playoff run?

[Steelreal]

So you want to look at playoff stats? How about Eli's stats in the playoffs? They aren't that great either. Remember all the interceptions Eli threw in the 2007 playoff run?

Yes I do remember but Eli is Eli is 8-3 in the playoffs with 17 Tds and 8 INTS and a 95.5 rating in the Super Bowl (PATS (2). Ben vs Pats? Look at his stats. UGH

[steelerdude15]

Yes I do remember but Eli is Eli is 8-3 in the playoffs with 17 Tds and 8 INTS and a 95.5 rating in the Super Bowl (PATS (2). Ben vs Pats? Look at his stats. UGH

I guess being 10-4 in the playoffs isn't good for you? Yeah, Ben doesn't have all that great of stats in the playoffs, but when it comes to overall stats, Ben has better overall stats.

[zulater]

I guess being 10-4 in the playoffs isn't good for you? Yeah, Ben doesn't have all that great of stats in the playoffs, but when it comes to overall stats, Ben has better overall stats.

Peyton Manning has had some playoff struggles too. Guess he isn't much either.

[Dwinsgames]

I like Haley but fear Ben may not be field aware enough for Haleys style game ... prime example early in the game prior to the first missed FG was 3rd and 1 , Ben had bought some time had a running lane good for 3-4 yards and instead throws and inc pass .... 2-3 steps away was a first down he failed to take it and consequently we did not score ...

Ben without a doubt was today's Goat

[zulater]

I like Haley but fear Ben may not be field aware enough for Haleys style game ... prime example early in the game prior to the first missed FG was 3rd and 1 , Ben had bought some time had a running lane good for 3-4 yards and instead throws and inc pass .... 2-3 steps away was a first down he failed to take it and consequently we did not score ...

Ben without a doubt was today's Goat

Ben was handling Haley's offense fine until injuries derailed the season. And I'm not just saying his own. . I think Antonio Brown, Willie Colon, and Mike Adam's injuries all played a part in derailing an offense that looked to be coming together at midseason. Momentum once lost just was impossible to regain this season.

If Haley stays I think the offense and Ben will look more like the midseason version right from the start next season.

[Moose]

Ben was the best QB the bungholes had. Give 'em 10 pts....ugh. Enough said, I'm disgusted...but glad this pathetic season is over. I'm done with football til draft and summer camp....SCREW next week and the browns game...could care less, not gonna watch. I did predict them at the beginning of the season to go 7-9 because of the injuries, age and attitude of the team. LOL What do I win ? LOL Cya'

[dislocatedday]

Now he is. Cousins is a rookie. He looked better than a rookie Roethlisberger.

Now I have to wonder if you are just trolling........Cousins looked better than a rookie Roethlisberger LOL. Did you even watch the Steelers in 2004?

[Count Steeler]

Ben has to mature and become the true on field leader. He can't rely on his body and his physical attributes. He has to play more cerebral. He has to play like he did at the beginning of this season. Patient and smart. It is not pretty, but it is better for the team and better for his longevity.

[Steelreal]

I guess being 10-4 in the playoffs isn't good for you? Yeah, Ben doesn't have all that great of stats in the playoffs, but when it comes to overall stats, Ben has better overall stats.

It is good but as those STATS 20 TDS and 17 INTS proves, Ben is not the primary reason for the success. Its the Defense. Did you see the game today? How did Ben play? I'd say terrible. Were we still in the game? Yes, we were. Did you see the game vs the Browns with our backup bums? Eight turnovers and guess what? We were still in the game? Was that due to Leftwiches great play? Heck no, it was due to the Defense. Same with the win vs the Ravens (Batch). He gets credit for a win when it was the defense who were the primary reason for the win. I have just given you three examples of why Ben Roethlisberger has so many wins.

[steeldawg]

Now he is. Cousins is a rookie. He looked better than a rookie Roethlisberger.

Ben was 13-1 and rookie of the year.

[Steelreal]

Peyton Manning has had some playoff struggles too. Guess he isn't much either.

Peyton Manning has better playoff stats than Ben. Fact

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Ben was handling Haley's offense fine until injuries derailed the season. And I'm not just saying his own. . I think Antonio Brown, Willie Colon, and Mike Adam's injuries all played a part in derailing an offense that looked to be coming together at midseason. Momentum once lost just was impossible to regain this season.

If Haley stays I think the offense and Ben will look more like the midseason version right from the start next season.

Excuse

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I like Haley but fear Ben may not be field aware enough for Haleys style game ... prime example early in the game prior to the first missed FG was 3rd and 1 , Ben had bought some time had a running lane good for 3-4 yards and instead throws and inc pass .... 2-3 steps away was a first down he failed to take it and consequently we did not score ...

Ben without a doubt was today's Goat

Honest, accurate post

[zulater]

Ben has to mature and become the true on field leader. He can't rely on his body and his physical attributes. He has to play more cerebral. He has to play like he did at the beginning of this season. Patient and smart. It is not pretty, but it is better for the team and better for his longevity.

I'm sure Tomlin will discuss this very thing next week when he has Ben's season ending exit meeting with him.

This was just an awful season. I think Ben will be fine next year. And will work hard to master this offense and will. ( if Haley doesn't leave)

I think a good qb coach might help too. Don't be surprised if they go outside the organization for a new qb coach.

[steeldawg]

It is good but as those STATS 20 TDS and 17 INTS proves, Ben is not the primary reason for the success. Its the Defense. Did you see the game today? How did Ben play? I'd say terrible. Were we still in the game? Yes, we were. Did you see the game vs the Browns with our backup bums? Eight turnovers and guess what? We were still in the game? Was that due to Leftwiches great play? Heck no, it was due to the Defense. Same with the win vs the Ravens (Batch). He gets credit for a win when it was the defense who were the primary reason for the win. I have just given you three examples of why Ben Roethlisberger has so many wins.

are you saying we won our superbowls despite ben?

[Steelreal]

Now I have to wonder if you are just trolling........Cousins looked better than a rookie Roethlisberger LOL. Did you even watch the Steelers in 2004?
Yes, I did. Ben was a game manager. When we asked him to do what Cousins did last week we lost Big to the Pats. Are you trolling? I have seen every game of Bens career. Did you see that I mentioned how well he played vs the Cowboys as a rookie? Course not. Sigh

[zulater]

are you saying we won our superbowls despite ben?

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/22600000/Remember-Don-t-Feed-the-Trolls-fanpop-22675476-400-345.jpg

[Steelreal]

Ben has to mature and become the true on field leader. He can't rely on his body and his physical attributes. He has to play more cerebral. He has to play like he did at the beginning of this season. Patient and smart. It is not pretty, but it is better for the team and better for his longevity.

Maybe this will be accepted when YOU say it. It certainly isnt when I say it.

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are you saying we won our superbowls despite ben?

No, I said Ben was NOT the primary reason we won them. That's what I said. We won SB 40 and Ben had a 22 rating. Nuff said

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Ben was 13-1 and rookie of the year.

Due to wins and not his personal stats.

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Ben was 13-1 due to staley, bus and the running game

[Steelreal]

What happens to Ben when the running game is absent? He is exposed. What happens to Ben when the Defense isnt elite? He is exposed. What happens to Ben when the Defense is elite and the running game clicks? He wins Super Bowls.

[steeldawg]

Maybe this will be accepted when YOU say it. It certainly isnt when I say it.

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No, I said Ben was NOT the primary reason we won them. That's what I said. We won SB 40 and Ben had a 22 rating. Nuff said

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Due to wins and not his personal stats.

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Ben was 13-1 due to staley, bus and the running game

If tommy maddox is the qb do we get to the superbowl???

[Steelreal]

Tammy Maddox is a backup. Is Ben better than Maddox? ABSOLUTELY. We pay Ben 100 million dollars. Why are all the other 100 million dollar qbs lighting up defenses and our isnt? Why not?

[steeldawg]

What happens to Ben when the running game is absent? He is exposed. What happens to Ben when the Defense isnt elite? He is exposed. What happens to Ben when the Defense is elite and the running game clicks? He wins Super Bowls.

Im not sure what your getting are you saying roethlisberger is not good?? I already posted this: Roethlisberger has been one of the most efficient passers in NFL history. He currently ranks 10th all-time in NFL passer rating (92.9), 5th in yards per attempt (8.06), and 11th in completion percentage (63.24%) among quarterbacks with a minimum of 1,500 career attempts. He has the fourth highest career winning percentage (.710) as a starter in the regular season among quarterbacks with a minimum of 100 starts.

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Tammy Maddox is a backup. Is Ben better than Maddox? ABSOLUTELY. We pay Ben 100 million dollars. Why are all the other 100 million dollar qbs lighting up defenses and our isnt? Why not?

The point is ben was a major part of those superbowl seasons, i mean we had great defenses for a number of years under cowher but we didnt win a superbowl till ben then another under tomlin and last season we went to the superbowl with virtually the same defense

[Steelreal]

Im not sure what your getting are you saying roethlisberger is not good?? I already posted this: Roethlisberger has been one of the most efficient passers in NFL history. He currently ranks 10th all-time in NFL passer rating (92.9), 5th in yards per attempt (8.06), and 11th in completion percentage (63.24%) among quarterbacks with a minimum of 1,500 career attempts. He has the fourth highest career winning percentage (.710) as a starter in the regular season among quarterbacks with a minimum of 100 starts.

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The point is ben was a major part of those superbowl seasons, i mean we had great defenses for a number of years under cowher but we didnt win a superbowl till ben then another under tomlin and last season we went to the superbowl with virtually the same defense

Im saying he is GOOD but not elite. His success in the NFL is due LARGELY to the fact that he is on the STEELERS. Put Ben on the Browns and he is Jake Plummer. Ben is below average in scoring POINTS. Rodgers, Manning, Brees and Brady are not. There lies the difference from the TOP TIER to the next Tier

[steelerdude15]

It is good but as those STATS 20 TDS and 17 INTS proves, Ben is not the primary reason for the success. Its the Defense. Did you see the game today? How did Ben play? I'd say terrible. Were we still in the game? Yes, we were. Did you see the game vs the Browns with our backup bums? Eight turnovers and guess what? We were still in the game? Was that due to Leftwiches great play? Heck no, it was due to the Defense. Same with the win vs the Ravens (Batch). He gets credit for a win when it was the defense who were the primary reason for the win. I have just given you three examples of why Ben Roethlisberger has so many wins.

I did watch the game today and yes, the defense played extremely well while the offense played poorly. Let me remind you of all of the game winning drives that Ben has had. Why did he have these, because the defense failed in those games, did they not?

[jb500ex]

facts are ben teams dont score and those are facts.

[steeldawg]

Im saying he is GOOD but not elite. His success in the NFL is due LARGELY to the fact that he is on the STEELERS. Put Ben on the Browns and he is Jake Plummer. Ben is below average in scoring POINTS. Rodgers, Manning, Brees and Brady are not. There lies the difference from the TOP TIER to the next Tier

Im not putting him in that class, i dont expect him to put up those numbers either, hes efficient he wins and he can make plays thats all i need from him. He plays well enough to be a winning qb in this league and well enough to win a championship.

[Steelreal]

I did watch the game today and yes, the defense played extremely well while the offense played poorly. Let me remind you of all of the game winning drives that Ben has had. Why did he have these, because the defense failed in those games, did they not?

Again, Game winning drives only occur when you have played poorly in the 1st place. Ben is on an elite team, he has no business being behind so much. Game winning comebacks are impressive if you play on a bad team. How much are Brady, Rodgers, Peyton or Brees behind. If Ben comes through in the 4th today he would get a "come from behind" win despite playing like puke all day. See how meaningless it is on a good team?

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Im not putting him in that class, i dont expect him to put up those numbers either, hes efficient he wins and he can make plays thats all i need from him. He plays well enough to be a winning qb in this league and well enough to win a championship.

Batch/Leftwich win too. Because they are great or because THEY ARE ON THE STEELERS??? We also went 13-3 with KORDELL STEWART. Was it because of the greatness of the Qb or the team? The answer is obvious.

[Steelreal]

facts are ben teams dont score and those are facts.

Exactly. You can throw all of the completion stats, ypa etc. Points is what wins games. We have only scored 40 points FOUR times in the Roethlisberger era. He is below average in the redzone.

[Seven]

I hate to go after the OC, it's easy to do in any situation, but from the beginning of camp I was worried Haley was going to try and make Ben play into his system instead of tailoring an offense around the quarterback - and I think I was right. Make no mistake, Roethlisberger deserves blame for playing poorly today, but this offense didn't develop and grow the way it should have. To be honest, I wouldn't be heart broken if Haley gets the Arizona job this offseason. I was a big fan of what he implimented earlier in the year, but as I said - there just wasn't any growth. Situationally I feel like the play calls were consistently too cute. In my opinion he should have let Ben play more. There, I've said my piece on it. This isn't an overreaction to today, by the way - I've been biting my tongue for about half the season.

[stillers4me]

Eli got his ass handed to him today.

By this man.........
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nC7R4am-olo/TlcRJaquHVI/AAAAAAAAE2I/E3qflFXxSJ8/s400/BertPortrait.jpg

[Steelreal]

I agree. No arguement here.

[steelerdude15]

Again, Game winning drives only occur when you have played poorly in the 1st place. Ben is on an elite team, he has no business being behind so much. Game winning comebacks are impressive if you play on a bad team. How much are Brady, Rodgers, Peyton or Brees behind. If Ben comes through in the 4th today he would get a "come from behind" win despite playing like puke all day. See how meaningless it is on a good team?

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Batch/Leftwich win too. Because they are great or because THEY ARE ON THE STEELERS??? We also went 13-3 with KORDELL STEWART. Was it because of the greatness of the Qb or the team? The answer is obvious.

ANY comeback drive is good REGARDLESS of who is the quarterback. They are not meaningless no matter what team its for. So what you're telling me, is that only comeback victories are good on bad teams? Why isn't a comeback victory good for a good team? Your argument doesn't make sense. I fail to see how comeback victories aren't good for good teams.

[Steelreal]

I hate to go after the OC, it's easy to do in any situation, but from the beginning of camp I was worried Haley was going to try and make Ben play into his system instead of tailoring an offense around the quarterback - and I think I was right. Make no mistake, Roethlisberger deserves blame for playing poorly today, but this offense didn't develop and grow the way it should have. To be honest, I wouldn't be heart broken if Haley gets the Arizona job this offseason. I was a big fan of what he implimented earlier in the year, but as I said - there just wasn't any growth. Situationally I feel like the play calls were consistently too cute. In my opinion he should have let Ben play more. There, I've said my piece on it. This isn't an overreaction to today, by the way - I've been biting my tongue for about half the season.

If Ben doesnt like a play then he should audible and change it. Notice there are NEVER any OC woes in NO, NE, DEN, NYG,GB?? Its not a coincidence. Those guys are elite and dont need an OC. Ben has admitted that he cant throw to Heath unless Haley calls it. Thats an indictment against our QB.

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ANY comeback drive is good REGARDLESS of who is the quarterback. They are not meaningless no matter what team its for. So what you're telling me, is that only comeback victories are good on bad teams? Why isn't a comeback victory good for a good team? Your argument doesn't make sense. I fail to see how comeback victories aren't good for good teams.

So if Ben brings us back today he is a hero despite how poorly he played? Ok. So if Leftwich brings us back vs the Browns despite how poorly he played he is a hero?

[steelerdude15]

If Ben doesnt like a play then he should audible and change it. Notice there are NEVER any OC woes in NO, NE, DEN, NYG,GB?? Its not a coincidence. Those guys are elite and dont need an OC. Ben has admitted that he cant throw to Heath unless Haley calls it. Thats an indictment against our QB.

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So if Ben brings us back today he is a hero despite how poorly he played? Ok. So if Leftwich brings us back vs the Browns despite how poorly he played he is a hero?

Am I saying that? No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that comeback drives are good for all teams and you're arguing that there only good on bad teams. It would be great if we won today and it would have been great if Ben led the team down the field. For example, I wouldn't give him my game ball for the drive, but I would give him his credit for winning drive and explain why he didn't get the game ball.

[Steelreal]

Peyton Manning with 9 seasons of 12 wins or more. Incredible.

[Seven]

If Ben doesnt like a play then he should audible and change it. Notice there are NEVER any OC woes in NO, NE, DEN, NYG,GB?? Its not a coincidence. Those guys are elite and dont need an OC. Ben has admitted that he cant throw to Heath unless Haley calls it. Thats an indictment against our QB.

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So if Ben brings us back today he is a hero despite how poorly he played? Ok. So if Leftwich brings us back vs the Browns despite how poorly he played he is a hero?

You're overreacting. Brady has blown up at his OC's before. I'm sure most of those guys have, whether the camera has caught it or not. That's the nature of the game. I'm not putting sole blame of anything on Haley, I'm simply saying I feel like there are a lot of things that could have been done better as far as the system goes. You on the other hand are blaming everything on a single player which is irrational.

[Steelreal]

Am I saying that? No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that comeback drives are good for all teams and you're arguing that there only good on bad teams. It would be great if we won today and it would have been great if Ben led the team down the field. For example, I wouldn't give him my game ball for the drive, but I would give him his credit for winning drive and explain why he didn't get the game ball.

Peyton Manning led a comeback vs the Chargers. Down 24-0 that is impressive. Ben doesnt lead those kind of comebacks. He comes back from 7 points or less etc. When has Ben brought us back down 17 or more? He hasnt done it. Our defense keeps him in the game and he finally gets it right and you want me to credit him for comebacks? Sorry

[steelerdude15]

Peyton Manning led a comeback vs the Chargers. Down 24-0 that is impressive. Ben doesnt lead those kind of comebacks. He comes back from 7 points or less etc. When has Ben brought us back down 17 or more? He hasnt done it. Our defense keeps him in the game and he finally gets it right and you want me to credit him for comebacks? Sorry

So James Harrison is out there throwing the game winning touchdown and Ryan Clark is catching the ball that wins the game. Got it.

[Steelreal]

You're overreacting. Brady has blown up at his OC's before. I'm sure most of those guys have, whether the camera has caught it or not. That's the nature of the game. I'm not putting sole blame of anything on Haley, I'm simply saying I feel like there are a lot of things that could have been done better as far as the system goes. You on the other hand are blaming everything on a single player which is irrational.

Blown up? You mean when he and Obrien got into it? Uh. Brady was AGREEING with Obrien that he was playing poorly. Brady is so passionate it just looked like he was mad at his OC. Who lost the game? Ben did. Had that of Ben Batch you would be saying the same thing. But since it is Ben you want to deflect Blame. Sad

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So James Harrison is out there throwing the game winning touchdown and Ryan Clark is catching the ball that wins the game. Got it.

See Super Bowl vs the Cards. Did you see James? That Defense gave us a 20-7 lead while our offense stunk it up and let the Cards get back in the game. Ben is an underachiever, if you dont think so then that is your opinion. I'm not mad that you have a differing opinion.

[Dwinsgames]

I am sorry I still can not get over 3rd and 1 , open lane for 3 yards for Ben and he throws the ball inc ....

I am not huge on the QB running with the ball but when you are down 7 zip and you are the reason you're on the short end of the score and you can make a play in that situation YOU MAKE the play .... get that first down !!!! do NOT throw the football when the first down is there for the taking ...take it and get a fresh set of downs .....

0 redzone points on that drive because he chose to throw the ball when the first down was 2 or 3 steps away and no defender between him and it ... most frustrating this in the world is not taking what is there for the taking ....

[Seven]

Blown up? You mean when he and Obrien got into it? Uh. Brady was AGREEING with Obrien that he was playing poorly. Brady is so passionate it just looked like he was mad at his OC. Who lost the game? Ben did. Had that of Ben Batch you would be saying the same thing. But since it is Ben you want to deflect Blame. Sad

I've already conceded Ben had a bad game. And I'm not referring to Brady's discussion with O'Brien. You're making assumptions. The fact that you're being so irrational with your posts proves your overreacting. Why not take a break for a while until you cool down? I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm being serious. I know I post things which I come to regret when I get hot sometimes. I think you realize deep down that you are making Ben a scapegoat because you're angry. We don't have either of the last two Super Bowls without him. Although I suppose you'll tell me we would have more if Charlie Batch was our starter :chuckle:

[Steelreal]

I am sorry I still can not get over 3rd and 1 , open lane for 3 yards for Ben and he throws the ball inc ....

I am not huge on the QB running with the ball but when you are down 7 zip and you are the reason you're on the short end of the score and you can make a play in that situation YOU MAKE the play .... get that first down !!!! do NOT throw the football when the first down is there for the taking ...take it and get a fresh set of downs .....

0 redzone points on that drive because he chose to throw the ball when the first down was 2 or 3 steps away and no defender between him and it ... most frustrating this in the world is not taking what is there for the taking ....

Another example of Bad decesion making. I'll add the bad pass to a wide open Wallace. Also, a high pass to an open Heath.

[zulater]

I am sorry I still can not get over 3rd and 1 , open lane for 3 yards for Ben and he throws the ball inc ....

I am not huge on the QB running with the ball but when you are down 7 zip and you are the reason you're on the short end of the score and you can make a play in that situation YOU MAKE the play .... get that first down !!!! do NOT throw the football when the first down is there for the taking ...take it and get a fresh set of downs .....

0 redzone points on that drive because he chose to throw the ball when the first down was 2 or 3 steps away and no defender between him and it ... most frustrating this in the world is not taking what is there for the taking ....

Yep that was a terrible decsion on Ben's part. He had a terrible game. In my opinion the worst of his career.

But what are you going to do? Shit happens. Life goes on. And while I think the steelers need to upgrade the back up qb. I'm fine going into 2013 with Ben at the helm. I think with a good offseason and a little more luck on the health front and we should be a strong playoff contender next season.

[Steelreal]

I've already conceded Ben had a bad game. And I'm not referring to Brady's discussion with O'Brien. You're making assumptions. The fact that you're being so irrational with your posts proves your overreacting. Why not take a break for a while until you cool down? I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm being serious. I know I post things which I come to regret when I get hot sometimes. I think you realize deep down that you are making Ben a scapegoat because you're angry. We don't have either of the last two Super Bowls without him. Although I suppose you'll tell me we would have more if Charlie batch was our starter :chuckle:

Angry? Are you confused? I'm not angry at all. I apologize if I offended you. I use CAPS for emphasis, its surely not anger. Lastly, if you werent talking about the Obrien incident with Brady then which one were you talking about? Prove we wouldnt have won any SB without Ben. You can't . Come on bro

[steelerdude15]

Blown up? You mean when he and Obrien got into it? Uh. Brady was AGREEING with Obrien that he was playing poorly. Brady is so passionate it just looked like he was mad at his OC. Who lost the game? Ben did. Had that of Ben Batch you would be saying the same thing. But since it is Ben you want to deflect Blame. Sad

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See Super Bowl vs the Cards. Did you see James? That Defense gave us a 20-7 lead while our offense stunk it up and let the Cards get back in the game. Ben is an underachiever, if you dont think so then that is your opinion. I'm not mad that you have a differing opinion.

I would hope that you wouldn't be mad. This is an internet forum after all.

"That Defense gave us a 20-7 lead while our offense stunk it up and let the Cards get back in the game."

Please explain to me how this makes sense? How did the offense let the Cards get back in the game? Wasn't it the defense who was failing on their part in the second half? Also, defense only contributed six points to lead. The OFFENSE marched down the field on the first possession which led to a field goal. The OFFENSE scored on a running play, then the defense scored. Finally, it was the OFFENSE who scored the game winning touchdown because the defense didn't do their part.

[Steelreal]

Yep that was a terrible decsion on Ben's part. He had a terrible game. In my opinion the worst of his career.

But what are you going to do? Shit happens. Life goes on. And while I think the steelers need to upgrade the back up qb. I'm fine going into 2013 with Ben at the helm. I think with a good offseason and a little more luck on the health front and we should be a strong playoff contender next season.

Worst of career? No. He played worse vs the Pats in 04 (AFCCG) and vs the Raiders in 06.

[Seven]

Angry? Are you confused? I'm not angry at all. I apologize if I offended you. I use CAPS for emphasis, its surely not anger. Lastly, if you werent talking about the Obrien incident with Brady then which one were you talking about? Prove we wouldnt have won any SB without Ben. You can't . Come on bro

Prove we would have won them without him. You can't. At the end of the day he is our quarterback, and that's not changing anytime soon. He has his flaws as do all the guys you mentioned in your previous post. There is no such thing as a perfect player. Roethlisberger is a damn good one. If you can't see that, I can't help you. That just tells me you need to watch a lot more football.

[Steelreal]

I would hope that you wouldn't be mad. This is an internet forum after all.

"That Defense gave us a 20-7 lead while our offense stunk it up and let the Cards get back in the game."

Please explain to me how this makes sense? How did the offense let the Cards get back in the game? Wasn't it the defense who was failing on their part in the second half? Also, defense only contributed six points to lead. The OFFENSE marched down the field on the first possession which led to a field goal. The OFFENSE scored on a running play, then the defense scored. Finally, it was the OFFENSE who scored the game winning touchdown because the defense didn't do their part.

Exactly, I'm on internet with my Steeler brethren. I am hardly mad. The offense let them get back in the game due to the inability to sustain drives and score. The defense held a prolific attack in check for THREE quarters. You tend to tire bro and they did. Added to the fact that Warner is a stud.

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Prove we would have won them without him. You can't. At the end of the day he is our quarterback, and that's not changing anytime soon. He has his flaws as do all the guys you mentioned in your previous post. There is no such thing as a perfect player. Roethlisberger is a damn good one. If you can't see that, I can't help you. That just tells me you need to watch a lot more football.

I NEVER said we would have won them without him. Only a fool would say either way. I never said I wanted him gone either. Show me ONE place where I have said such a thing. YOU CANT. I have ALWAYS said Ben is good just not elite. Your post says "Roehtlisberger is damn good" so we agree so whats your deal?

[steelerdude15]

Exactly, I'm on internet with my Steeler brethren. I am hardly mad. The offense let them get back in the game due to the inability to sustain drives and score. The defense held a prolific attack in check for THREE quarters. You tend to tire bro and they did. Added to the fact that Warner is a stud.

Yet the defense failed in the fourth quarter. Yeah, the offense wasn't great, but it was Ben and the offense who bailed us out the game, was it not?

[Steelreal]

Yet the defense failed in the fourth quarter. Yeah, the offense wasn't great, but it was Ben and the offense who bailed us out the game, was it not?

Take away those 7 points by Harrison and the defense and we lose. Point Im making is the DEFENSE Is the reason we are elite, NOT the offense.

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Our defense was top 5. And habitually is. Our offense has never been top 5 in the Roethlisberger era. How come?

[steelerdude15]

Take away those 7 points by Harrison and the defense and we lose. Point Im making is the DEFENSE Is the reason we are elite, NOT the offense.

Technically, we're not longer elite. How many games has the defense let this team down the past couple of years?

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Take away those 7 points by Harrison and the defense and we lose. Point Im making is the DEFENSE Is the reason we are elite, NOT the offense.

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Our defense was top 5. And habitually is. Our offense has never been top 5 in the Roethlisberger era. How come?

There are many reasons why we haven't had a top five offense, but I'm sure if I started naming other reasons that don't pertain to Ben, you'll chalk it up as some excuse.

[Seven]

Technically, we're not longer elite. How many games has the defense let this team down the past couple of years?

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There are many reasons why we haven't had a top five offense, but I'm sure if I started naming other reasons that don't pertain to Ben, you'll chalk it up as some excuse.

Accurate on both accounts.

[Steelreal]

You avoided the question but you want me to answer yours? Ok. I will. The defense hasnt been what it was however it is STILL the strongest and most consistent unit on our team. It is still elite as you saw today. As you saw vs the Ravens (Won with Batch). When has our offense been elite? Not since Terry Was behind the reigns

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Technically, we're not longer elite. How many games has the defense let this team down the past couple of years?

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There are many reasons why we haven't had a top five offense, but I'm sure if I started naming other reasons that don't pertain to Ben, you'll chalk it up as some excuse.

Why is the Pats offense elite? Brady. Broncos? Peyton. Saints? Brees. Packers? Rodgers. Giants? Eli. All of these offenses are above average just like their quarterbacks. The Steelers dont get the same production from their quarterback. Didnt James Harrison tell Ben "You are not Peyton Manning even though you get paid like him". Was he lying?

[Devilsdancefloor]

Peyton Manning with 9 seasons of 12 wins or more. Incredible.
and 12 years of choke INcreadible! All i know before Ben 0 rings after ben 2 you can go on about the D all you want, but Cowher had some great Defenses as well and cam away with 1 SB win

[steelerdude15]

You avoided the question but you want me to answer yours? Ok. I will. The defense hasnt been what it was however it is STILL the strongest and most consistent unit on our team. It is still elite as you saw today. As you saw vs the Ravens (Won with Batch). When has our offense been elite? Not since Terry Was behind the reigns

First off, how many questions did you avoid of mine in this thread? Don't complain that I missed a question when I answered while you missed a few of mine.

You want me to elaborate? I will. There are a few reasons why our offense hasn't been a top five offense while Ben has been the starter. 1). Play calling through the first eight years weren't great. It was good, but not great. For example, play calling was predictable while Arians was OC. Remember the game vs Cleveland in 2009 and how we passed way too much when it was extremely cold and windy? 2). When have we ever had an elite running game? You do know that running the ball is part of the offense right? You don't throw throw throw. There have been plenty of times when we needed the running game to come through and it hasn't which leads me to another thing. How many times has the passing game had to bail out the offense because the running game wasn't doing anything? 3). For majority of Ben's era, the offensive line has not been good. The O-line is the must important unit in football and has been neglected for years. It was good until Super Bowl 40 and is finally becoming acceptable again. The O-line has been a major issue for years and hasn't opened holes for the running backs nor has protected Ben very well. 4). Ben himself hasn't been great all of those years. I personally feel that starting in 2010 is when he started to get in good form with things. Yeah, some of it is Ben's fault. He's starting to get better at reading defenses, his pocket presence is starting to get better, etc. Stop blaming him for everything that goes wrong with the offense.

I'm done arguing with you. We'll agree to disagree. Now, don't sit there and say that you won, I'm throwing out excuses, etc like you've done to other members because you haven't won. I'm stopping this so I don't get banned because I like it around here and have been contributing since we we're at SF. There is no point in arguing with someone who I won't agree with.

[GBMelBlount]

I am sorry I still can not get over 3rd and 1 , open lane for 3 yards for Ben and he throws the ball inc ....

I am not huge on the QB running with the ball but when you are down 7 zip and you are the reason you're on the short end of the score and you can make a play in that situation YOU MAKE the play .... get that first down !!!! do NOT throw the football when the first down is there for the taking ...take it and get a fresh set of downs .....

0 redzone points on that drive because he chose to throw the ball when the first down was 2 or 3 steps away and no defender between him and it ... most frustrating this in the world is not taking what is there for the taking ....

You know what else amazes me D, that they never did QB sneaks this year on 3rd and 4th and short even though Ben has a huge conversion rate and he is now behind one of the best centers in the game.

It just defies logic imo.

[Dwinsgames]

You know what else amazes me D, that they never did QB sneaks this year on 3rd and 4th and short even though Ben has a huge conversion rate and he is now behind one of the best centers in the game.

It just defies logic imo.

very true ... it is mind boggling what all was left on the table

[Steelreal]

and 12 years of choke INcreadible! All i know before Ben 0 rings after ben 2 you can go on about the D all you want, but Cowher had some great Defenses as well and cam away with 1 SB win

Cowher had backup Qbs. Ben has 3 TDS and 5 INTS and a 66 Rating in 3 SB. He won two with 2 TDS and 3 INTS. He is hardly the primary reason for the rings.

[Steelreal]

First off, how many questions did you avoid of mine in this thread? Don't complain that I missed a question when I answered while you missed a few of mine.

You want me to elaborate? I will. There are a few reasons why our offense hasn't been a top five offense while Ben has been the starter. 1). Play calling through the first eight years weren't great. It was good, but not great. For example, play calling was predictable while Arians was OC. Remember the game vs Cleveland in 2009 and how we passed way too much when it was extremely cold and windy? 2). When have we ever had an elite running game? You do know that running the ball is part of the offense right? You don't throw throw throw. There have been plenty of times when we needed the running game to come through and it hasn't which leads me to another thing. How many times has the passing game had to bail out the offense because the running game wasn't doing anything? 3). For majority of Ben's era, the offensive line has not been good. The O-line is the must important unit in football and has been neglected for years. It was good until Super Bowl 40 and is finally becoming acceptable again. The O-line has been a major issue for years and hasn't opened holes for the running backs nor has protected Ben very well. 4). Ben himself hasn't been great all of those years. I personally feel that starting in 2010 is when he started to get in good form with things. Yeah, some of it is Ben's fault. He's starting to get better at reading defenses, his pocket presence is starting to get better, etc. Stop blaming him for everything that goes wrong with the offense.

I'm done arguing with you. We'll agree to disagree. Now, don't sit there and say that you won, I'm throwing out excuses, etc like you've done to other members because you haven't won. I'm stopping this so I don't get banned because I like it around here and have been contributing since we we're at SF. There is no point in arguing with someone who I won't agree with.

1. Playcalling hasnt been great in 9 years? Excuse. If the playcalling isnt great then why doesnt Ben change it? Ben going ahead and running a "not so great" play shows that he isnt so great too right?
2. Ben had an elite running game with Mendenhall, Willie Parker, The Bus/Staley. Are you insane? Question for you. WHEN has Brady, Manning, Eli, Rodgers or Brees had an elite running game? They dont need one. How come?
3. The Oline excuse. Again, the quarterback makes the Oline good or bad. For example when Peyton Manning was behind the Colts line it was excellent. He goes out and its the worse in the league. The year Brady missed Cassel was sacked 46 times. Why hasnt Brady ever been sacked as much. Not even close. Ben creates the line problem due to being SLOW to process the information. Thats why he habitually stuggles in the red zone. Things happen faster and its much more compact. How did the line look early this year when Ben was playing like was coached to play? I think the line looked great as Ben looked like Manning. Is it ironic that he was in the convo for MVP playing like Haley coached him to play? Ben gets hurt and comes back IM GOING TO DO IT MY WAY and what happens? Old Ben.

"Pocket pressence is starting to get better". Dude Ben is going into his TENTH season. Starting to get better? Daltons is already better. Bro its all good banter. I would declare "I won" thats ridiculous. Being Diametrically Opposed isnt the end of the world.

[Count Steeler]

I am sorry I still can not get over 3rd and 1 , open lane for 3 yards for Ben and he throws the ball inc ....

I am not huge on the QB running with the ball but when you are down 7 zip and you are the reason you're on the short end of the score and you can make a play in that situation YOU MAKE the play .... get that first down !!!! do NOT throw the football when the first down is there for the taking ...take it and get a fresh set of downs .....

0 redzone points on that drive because he chose to throw the ball when the first down was 2 or 3 steps away and no defender between him and it ... most frustrating this in the world is not taking what is there for the taking ....

I was screaming at the TV! You think Ben would listen? Easily would have converted a 1st, maybe even a TD.

[steelerdude15]

1. Playcalling hasnt been great in 9 years? Excuse. If the playcalling isnt great then why doesnt Ben change it? Ben going ahead and running a "not so great" play shows that he isnt so great too right?
2. Ben had an elite running game with Mendenhall, Willie Parker, The Bus/Staley. Are you insane? Question for you. WHEN has Brady, Manning, Eli, Rodgers or Brees had an elite running game? They dont need one. How come?
3. The Oline excuse. Again, the quarterback makes the Oline good or bad. For example when Peyton Manning was behind the Colts line it was excellent. He goes out and its the worse in the league. The year Brady missed Cassel was sacked 46 times. Why hasnt Brady ever been sacked as much. Not even close. Ben creates the line problem due to being SLOW to process the information. Thats why he habitually stuggles in the red zone. Things happen faster and its much more compact. How did the line look early this year when Ben was playing like was coached to play? I think the line looked great as Ben looked like Manning. Is it ironic that he was in the convo for MVP playing like Haley coached him to play? Ben gets hurt and comes back IM GOING TO DO IT MY WAY and what happens? Old Ben.

"Pocket pressence is starting to get better". Dude Ben is going into his TENTH season. Starting to get better? Daltons is already better. Bro its all good banter. I would declare "I won" thats ridiculous. Being Diametrically Opposed isnt the end of the world.

Just like I said, everything I would say, you would turn around and say that it was an excuse, like you did to everyone else. I guess no one can win when they argue with you right?

[vtw8lftr]

I didn't read the entire thread so this may have been beat to death but Roethlisberger lost the season for us... not saying we had an alternative since Batch was an anomaly in his win against the Ravens... but his pick in OT against Dallas and his pick in late time 4th quarter play against the Bengals buried this team. I know everyone is going to point out his past stats and accomplishments but after the layoff I don't think he was close to 100% and it cost us in the end. I truly can't believe the Steelers did not run more today when it was working really well... instead Ben played school yard ball and got burned 2 weeks in a row.

[Count Steeler]

The coaches have to address whatever happened to him after the injury. He was having a great year and he was different when he came back after the injury.

We sure looked good when we had a consistent O Line for a stretch. Just shows we are not washed up. There is hope for next year, Steeler fans.

[SteelGhost]

The losses against the Raiders, Titans and Browns besides the myriad of injuries made this season a painful one, today's Ben's poor play was just the cherry on top of the cake IMHO.

[Steelreal]

He was looking good because he was being coachable and playing like Haley's gameplan dictated. When have you seen Ben look Better. Once Ben got hurt he came back as Old Ben, trying to do things he did in Arians offense. An example of a player being selfish and aborting the offense. You disagree? Can you honestly say that post injury Ben looked like he was running the same system? Post Ben was old Ben.

Oh by the way, Arians is in the playoffs with a rookie. Hmmmm

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The losses against the Raiders, Titans and Browns besides the myriad of injuries made this season a painful one, today's Ben's poor play was just the cherry on top of the cake IMHO.

Yes and people forget that we lost FIVE game with Ben pre injury. To horrible teams (save Broncos)

[Steelreal]

He was looking good because he was being coachable and playing like Haley's gameplan dictated. When have you seen Ben look Better. Once Ben got hurt he came back as Old Ben, trying to do things he did in Arians offense. An example of a player being selfish and aborting the offense. You disagree? Can you honestly say that post injury Ben looked like he was running the same system? Post Ben was old Ben.

Oh by the way, Arians is in the playoffs with a rookie. Hmmmm

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Yes and people forget that we lost FIVE game with Ben pre injury. To horrible teams (save Broncos)

Colinsworth just mimmicked what I said about Arians.

[Count Steeler]

Yes and people forget that we lost FIVE game with Ben pre injury. To horrible teams (save Broncos)

Yes, you really want to pick on Ben. The Defense had nothing to do with those early losses?

The TEAM had a sub par year for several reasons. Haley(if he returns) and Ben have to work out their differences (read: Ben needs to mature) and get on the same page next year.

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Haley had some poorly designed plays as well. These slow developing, 7-9 yard deep line ups for the RB, are just not cutting it.

[Steelreal]

Yes, you really want to pick on Ben. The Defense had nothing to do with those early losses?

The TEAM had a sub par year for several reasons. Haley(if he returns) and Ben have to work out their differences (read: Ben needs to mature) and get on the same page next year.

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Haley had some poorly designed plays as well. These slow developing, 7-9 yard deep line ups for the RB, are just not cutting it.

Who is getting the most blame in NY? Sanchez. Who is getting the most blame in Philly? Vick. Who is getting the most blame in Chicago? Cutler. Who is getting the most blame in Dallas? Romo.

Sorry bro, it goes with the territory. The QB get the most money and the most glory as well as the most blame. The defense has carried this franchise since the 70's. The organization is known for the STEEL CURTAIN. What nicknames has the offense ever had?

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You see this Rookie Wilson for the Seahawks? He has led his offense to over 40 points three times in his rookie season. Ben has done it four times in NINE years. Perspective

[Count Steeler]

Sorry bro, it goes with the territory. The QB get the most money and the most glory as well as the most blame. The defense has carried this franchise since the 70's. The organization is known for the STEEL CURTAIN. What nicknames has the offense ever had?

You see this Rookie Wilson for the Seahawks? He has led his offense to over 40 points three times in his rookie season. Ben has done it four times in NINE years. Perspective

So who else you blaming?

Kudos to Wilson. The kid is playing great.

[Steelreal]

I blame the one who is payed the most. The one who handles the ball the most. The one who directly affects the game the most. Why do I blame Ben?

1. We dont score a lot of points with Ben/Wiz. Wiz leaves and he and Kurt Warner and Haley are explosive
2. We dont score a lot of points with Ben/Arians. However, we gain a lot of yards. Arians leaves and goes to the playoffs with a Rookie. No scoring problem.
3. Haley is a proven offensive mind.

[Count Steeler]

I blame the one who is payed the most. The one who handles the ball the most. The one who directly affects the game the most. Why do I blame Ben?

1. We dont score a lot of points with Ben/Wiz. Wiz leaves and he and Kurt Warner and Haley are explosive
2. We dont score a lot of points with Ben/Arians. However, we gain a lot of yards. Arians leaves and goes to the playoffs with a Rookie. No scoring problem.
3. Haley is a proven offensive mind.

I didn't ask why you blame Ben. Even Ben blames Ben. Are you saying there is no other blame to go around?

[Steelreal]

Nobody else threw a pick 6. Nobody else threw a game losing pick. Nobody else overthrew Wallace for 6. Nobody else took a dumb sack and took us out of FG range. Nobody else could have ran for a 1st but decided to throw an incompletion.

If you find someone more blameworthy then please name him and I will get all over him.

[Count Steeler]

If you find someone more blameworthy then please name him and I will get all over him.

Ah, the twist. Above you said "most of the blame". I never suggested that there was anyone more blameworthy, but that there was definitely more blame to go around. I haven't read all you posts, but it seems you have only mentioned Ben. If that is the extent of your contribution, I think everyone on the board knows where you stand. However, to only focus on Ben is shortsighted.

[Steelreal]

I just look at all of these young quarterbacks coming into the league and having early success. Cam Newton had a better season than Ben last year. This year two rookies had a better season (RGlll), Russell Wilson. Luck threw for more yards. It just seems like most teams can light it up and we seldom do. How come?

[Count Steeler]

I just look at all of these young quarterbacks coming into the league and having early success. Cam Newton had a better season than Ben last year. This year two rookies had a better season (RGlll), Russell Wilson. Luck threw for more yards. It just seems like most teams can light it up and we seldom do. How come?

So I will conclude from you obstinance that Ben is the only one to blame.

[Steelreal]

I blame Ben the most because he has the most potential. I blame Tomlin too but he has proven he is a DUMB BLEEEEP so I expect it. Notice I have NEVER said anything about Ben that strongly? Hmmm

[Steeldude]

BR has his good points and his bad points.

Good:
Will stand and take the hit
Strong arm. Can make all of the throws
Very good pocket presence/feeling pressure
Can extend plays
Rather mobile for his size
Will play hurt

Bad:
Doesn't see the open WRs in the beginning of plays which results in him running around, pump faking etc...
Has a tendency to throw off back foot when throwing long which leads to short and/or hanging passes
Forces passes(not always a bad thing)
Too much schoolyard football
Doesn't appear to be a student of the game ala Manning/Brady

I am surprised Haley hasn't blown his lid out of frustration. There is a big difference between Warner and BR

[SteelMayhem72]

He's not 100%, The Oline, Tomlin, Haley. You guys are incredible. Hes not 100%? Based on what? He looked 100% to me. Ben habitually plays average or below average vs a good defense. This has been the case his whole career. Check his stats vs a good D and prove me wrong. Was he hurt for 9 years? Next excuse

This is absolutely the truth...I very much hate to say it but Ben has benefitted from a stellar D...I love him to death but truth is he's not the greatest QB and its starting to show and I do believe 2 more years is his max. I think his biggest asset is his athletic ability to improvise which is all but gone because teams have figured him out. Injuries concussion wise believe or not have affected his mental compacity wether you wanna believe or not.

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BR has his good points and his bad points.

Good:
Will stand and take the hit
Strong arm. Can make all of the throws
Very good pocket presence/feeling pressure
Can extend plays
Rather mobile for his size
Will play hurt

Bad:
Doesn't see the open WRs in the beginning of plays which results in him running around, pump faking etc...
Has a tendency to throw off back foot when throwing long which leads to short and/or hanging passes
Forces passes(not always a bad thing)
Too much schoolyard football
Doesn't appear to be a student of the game ala Manning/Brady

I am surprised Haley hasn't blown his lid out of frustration. There is a big difference between Warner and BR

This is absofuckinlutely the truth!!! I couldnt have said it better my self!!!!!

[SteelMayhem72]

We have to admit that Ben is not the most cerebral QB...not taking away his past accomplishments but this is the truth!!! He will never be manning or brady ever!!!

[fansince'76]

This is absolutely the truth...I very much hate to say it but Ben has benefitted from a stellar D...I love him to death but truth is he's not the greatest QB and its starting to show and I do believe 2 more years is his max. I think his biggest asset is his athletic ability to improvise which is all but gone because teams have figured him out. Injuries concussion wise believe or not have affected his mental compacity wether you wanna believe or not.

Whatever. The guy was off to the best start of a season in his career and was very firmly in the NFL MVP discussion at midseason despite playing in a brand new offensive system before Tamba Hali and Justin Houston landed on top of him. The Steelers were also 6-3 and in the midst of a 4-game winning streak at the time as well. I don't care what anybody says, if they look at footage from the first nine games of the season and compare it to footage from the last three and somehow still think the footage from the latter games passes the smell test and that he's been 100% healthy, they're smoking crack. This season went off the rails for good when Roethlisberger got injured. Bottom line.

[Crow-Magnon]

Sorry, but I have to laugh. Ben has not one, but two SB rings, and was playing lights out until his injury, but now some of you are beating him up as if he's a scrub QB. Face facts- no team makes the playoffs, wins their division or championships every year. I know you seem to expect that in Pittsburgh, but that ain't reality.

Many teams would kill to have Ben taking snaps.

[Seven]

Sorry, but I have to laugh. Ben has not one, but two SB rings, and was playing lights out until his injury, but now some of you are beating him up as if he's a scrub QB. Face facts- no team makes the playoffs, wins their division or championships every year. I know you seem to expect that in Pittsburgh, but that ain't reality.

Many teams would kill to have Ben taking snaps.


Very accurate. But come on Crow, you know this city literally views every non-ring year as failure :chuckle:

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You avoided the question but you want me to answer yours? Ok. I will. The defense hasnt been what it was however it is STILL the strongest and most consistent unit on our team. It is still elite as you saw today. As you saw vs the Ravens (Won with Batch). When has our offense been elite? Not since Terry Was behind the reigns

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Why is the Pats offense elite? Brady. Broncos? Peyton. Saints? Brees. Packers? Rodgers. Giants? Eli. All of these offenses are above average just like their quarterbacks. The Steelers dont get the same production from their quarterback. Didnt James Harrison tell Ben "You are not Peyton Manning even though you get paid like him". Was he lying?

How the hell is the Giants offense "elite"? They had offensive implosions this year that were far worse than our own.

[86WARD]

One of the dumber threads on this message board...lol.

[Lambert_Loonie]

Sorry, but I have to laugh. Ben has not one, but two SB rings, and was playing lights out until his injury, but now some of you are beating him up as if he's a scrub QB. Face facts- no team makes the playoffs, wins their division or championships every year. I know you seem to expect that in Pittsburgh, but that ain't reality.

Many teams would kill to have Ben taking snaps.

When a Ravens fan on a Steelers message board is the voice of reason. Things you'd never think you'd see.

[zulater]

Sorry, but I have to laugh. Ben has not one, but two SB rings, and was playing lights out until his injury, but now some of you are beating him up as if he's a scrub QB. Face facts- no team makes the playoffs, wins their division or championships every year. I know you seem to expect that in Pittsburgh, but that ain't reality.

Many teams would kill to have Ben taking snaps.

Good post. And good luck in the playoffs Crow.

[GBMelBlount]

BR has his good points and his bad points.

Good:
Will stand and take the hit
Strong arm. Can make all of the throws
Very good pocket presence/feeling pressure
Can extend plays
Rather mobile for his size
Will play hurt

Bad:
Doesn't see the open WRs in the beginning of plays which results in him running around, pump faking etc...
Has a tendency to throw off back foot when throwing long which leads to short and/or hanging passes
Forces passes(not always a bad thing)
Too much schoolyard football
Doesn't appear to be a student of the game ala Manning/Brady

I am surprised Haley hasn't blown his lid out of frustration. There is a big difference between Warner and BR

I think these are very good and well laid out observations dude.

The student of the game part I think may be a biggie....could this keep him from continuing to improve in his 30's like some other greats?

I also think that Ben has lost his edge in another area - clutch performance.

I just do not see the intense desire to win when behind in the 4th quarter as much as I felt it earlier in his career.

I could certainly be wrong but it just feels that way to me.

[zulater]

Whatever. The guy was off to the best start of a season in his career and was very firmly in the NFL MVP discussion at midseason despite playing in a brand new offensive system before Tamba Hali and Justin Houston landed on top of him. The Steelers were also 6-3 and in the midst of a 4-game winning streak at the time as well. I don't care what anybody says, if they look at footage from the first nine games of the season and compare it to footage from the last three and somehow still think the footage from the latter games passes the smell test and that he's been 100% healthy, they're smoking crack. This season went off the rails for good when Roethlisberger got injured. Bottom line.

Good post.

And again, at ther risk of sounding like a broken record. Prior to the injury Ben was the highest rated passer in the league on 3rd downs. And the Steelers were the top team converting them. Ben comes back from the injury and virtually can't do a damn thing on 3rd down for the past 3 games.

So are we to believe that the first 9 games didn't happen? That he suddenly forgot how to play qb and read defense's in a 3 week absense?

As to the bullshit that Ben is dumb. How the fuck do suppose he was converting all those 3rd and longs at the beggining of the year if he couldn't read a defense? :doh:

[GBMelBlount]

Good post.

And again, at ther risk of sounding like a broken record. Prior to the injury Ben was the highest rated passer in the league on 3rd downs. And the Steelers were the top team converting them. Ben comes back from the injury and virtually can't do a damn thing on 3rd down for the past 3 games.

So are we to believe that the first 9 games didn't happen? That he suddenly forgot how to play qb and read defense's in a 3 week absense?

As to the bullshit that Ben is dumb. How the fuck do suppose he was converting all those 3rd and longs at the beggining of the year if he couldn't read a defense? :doh:

Great point...and if this is true then this shows the poor decision making of Tomlin.

The decision to bring Ben back while still severely gimpled last year was terrible and cost us the season....and they did the EXACT same thing again this year.

THAT is on Tomlin.

[steel striker]

Look the o-line was horrible yesterday and, if you want to blame Ben go ahead. Sure ben did not have a good game yesterday and, maybe he tried to do to much. The coaching did not help and, who in their right mind would try 54 yard FG at Hines Field? 44 seconds in a tie game and, the offense who has not crap all day lets try to get in field goal range. Sure it is easy to say we should played for OT and, took are chances. Ben does not have many games like this when it counts the most. The shame of it is the defense played great and, good enough to get the win. So sure Ben is the goat to end this crap of a season.

[Steelreal]

Whatever. The guy was off to the best start of a season in his career and was very firmly in the NFL MVP discussion at midseason despite playing in a brand new offensive system before Tamba Hali and Justin Houston landed on top of him. The Steelers were also 6-3 and in the midst of a 4-game winning streak at the time as well. I don't care what anybody says, if they look at footage from the first nine games of the season and compare it to footage from the last three and somehow still think the footage from the latter games passes the smell test and that he's been 100% healthy, they're smoking crack. This season went off the rails for good when Roethlisberger got injured. Bottom line.

WHEN have you ever seen Ben play like that? I'll help you you havent. Its the best he has looked ever. Why did he look that good? The obvious reason is HALEY. Ben got hurt playing like Haley wanted him to and when He came back he was determined to play like OLD BEN. A selfish act by a prima donna Quarterback. Ben was looking great because he listened to his coach. He looked like crap when he came back because he STOPPED listening to his coach.

- - - Updated - - -


Sorry, but I have to laugh. Ben has not one, but two SB rings, and was playing lights out until his injury, but now some of you are beating him up as if he's a scrub QB. Face facts- no team makes the playoffs, wins their division or championships every year. I know you seem to expect that in Pittsburgh, but that ain't reality.

Many teams would kill to have Ben taking snaps.

2 Rings based on the Defense and running game. In those 2 Super Bowl wins Ben has a Qb rating in the 50's or 60's. Sorry he is not the primary reason we won those 2 SBs 2 TDs and 3 picks. Keep lying to yourself. Put Roethlisberger on the Browns and what does he win? He's not that kind of quarterback

[Steelreal]

Good post.

And again, at ther risk of sounding like a broken record. Prior to the injury Ben was the highest rated passer in the league on 3rd downs. And the Steelers were the top team converting them. Ben comes back from the injury and virtually can't do a damn thing on 3rd down for the past 3 games.

So are we to believe that the first 9 games didn't happen? That he suddenly forgot how to play qb and read defense's in a 3 week absense?

As to the bullshit that Ben is dumb. How the fuck do suppose he was converting all those 3rd and longs at the beggining of the year if he couldn't read a defense? :doh:

He was converting them due to PLAY ACTION. How many points do you get for being efficient on third down? You mention the 1st nine games? We lost THREE games while Ben was great on third down. See what I mean by "How many points do you get for being good on 3rd down". Its about POINTS. We lost to the Broncos, Raiders and Titans in those 1st nine games you described. Ben was great on 3rd down vs the Broncos but only scored 19 points. No DC has EVER raved about how Cerebral Ben Roethlisberger is. How come? Despite having the #1 Defense. We had a cream puff schedule and our quarterback led us out of the playoff for the THIRD time in his 9 year career and THATS one of the biggest indictments agains him




2012 REGULAR SEASON GAME LOG
PASSING
RUSHING


DATE
OPP
RESULT
CMP
ATT
YDS
CMP%
AVG
LNG
TD
INT
QBR
RAT
ATT
YDS
AVG
LNG
TD


Sun 9/9


@

DEN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/den/denver-broncos)


L 19-31 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=320909007)
22
40
245
55.0
6.13
27
2
1
47.3
79.7
2
4
2.0
2
0


Sun 9/16


vs

NYJ (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/nyj/new-york-jets)


W 27-10 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=320916023)
24
31
275
77.4
8.87
37
2
0
93.4
125.1
0
0
0.0
0
0


Sun 9/23


@

OAK (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/oak/oakland-raiders)


L 31-34 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=320923013)
36
49
384
73.5
7.84
22
4
0
91.0
123.2
1
8
8.0
8
0


Sun 10/7


vs

PHI (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-eagles)


W 16-14 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321007023)
22
38
220
57.9
5.79
20
1
0
48.0
83.2
3
14
4.7
9
0


Thu 10/11


@

TEN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/ten/tennessee-titans)


L 23-26 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321011010)
24
40
363
60.0
9.08
82
1
1
76.0
87.8
1
14
14.0
14
0


Sun 10/21


@

CIN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/cin/cincinnati-bengals)


W 24-17 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321021004)
27
37
278
73.0
7.51
31
1
1
69.8
92.0
1
-1
-1.0
-1
0


Sun 10/28


vs

WSH (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/wsh/washington-redskins)


W 27-12 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321028023)
24
33
222
72.7
6.73
27
3
0
90.2
121.0
2
6
3.0
3
0


Sun 11/4


@

NYG (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/nyg/new-york-giants)


W 24-20 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321104019)
21
30
216
70.0
7.20
51
2
1
41.2
98.8
4
-1
-0.3
5
0


Mon 11/12


vs

KC (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/kc/kansas-city-chiefs)


W 16-13 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321112023) (OT)
9
18
84
50.0
4.67
20
1
0
60.6
81.7
1
14
14.0
14
0


Sun 12/9


vs

SD (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/sd/san-diego-chargers)


L 24-34 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321209023)
22
42
285
52.4
6.79
40
3
1
34.7
87.9
5
31
6.2
10
0


Sun 12/16


@

DAL (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/dal/dallas-cowboys)


L 24-27 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321216006) (OT)
24
40
339
60.0
8.48
60
2
1
60.1
93.6
2
2
1.0
3
0


Sun 12/23


vs

CIN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/cin/cincinnati-bengals)


L 10-13 (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321223023)
14
28
220
50.0
7.86
60
1
2
7.1
58.6
2
3
1.5
4
0


REGULAR SEASON STATS
269
426
3,131
63.1
7.35
82
23
8
61.3
95.5
24
94
3.9
14
0

[Crow-Magnon]

Good post. And good luck in the playoffs Crow.

If the Ravens perform in the playoffs like yesterday, no luck required. If they show up like the previous three weeks? Yikes!

[zulater]

If the Ravens perform in the playoffs like yesterday, no luck required. If they show up like the previous three weeks? Yikes!

It will be interesting to see what they do against the Bengals. Of course I'm guessing they're locked into the 4 seed, so they'll probably just coast.

[Steelreal]

Lets blame the Line, Tomlin, Haley EVERYONE except the guy who is on the field throwing pick after pick. I saw times where Ben has six seconds to throw and he STILL couldnt find anyone open. Im sure you guys missed those instances. When Ben took a sack and took us out of FG range, I guess that was on Tomlin too huh? When Ben overthrew a wide open Wallace was that on Tomlin too? Thats 10 points that our quarterback left on the field. He also gave them 6 more. 17 points accounted for or not, by our qb. Tomlin? Haley? the line?

Yeah right.

- - - Updated - - -

Arians is in the playoffs WITH A ROOKIE. Eat Crow all you Arians haters.

[fansince'76]

WHEN have you ever seen Ben play like that? I'll help you you havent. Its the best he has looked ever. Why did he look that good? The obvious reason is HALEY. Ben got hurt playing like Haley wanted him to and when He came back he was determined to play like OLD BEN. A selfish act by a prima donna Quarterback. Ben was looking great because he listened to his coach. He looked like crap when he came back because he STOPPED listening to his coach.


Sorry, but "not obeying Haley" doesn't explain why he has looked like Kordell Stewart for the last 3 weeks with the one-hop passes and inaccuracy when he was throwing darts up until the KC game. He's not 100%, period, and nobody's going to convince me otherwise.

[Count Steeler]

Lets blame the Line, Tomlin, Haley EVERYONE except the guy who is on the field throwing pick after pick. I saw times where Ben has six seconds to throw and he STILL couldnt find anyone open. Im sure you guys missed those instances. When Ben took a sack and took us out of FG range, I guess that was on Tomlin too huh? When Ben overthrew a wide open Wallace was that on Tomlin too? Thats 10 points that our quarterback left on the field. He also gave them 6 more. 17 points accounted for or not, by our qb. Tomlin? Haley? the line?

Yeah right.

- - - Updated - - -

Arians is in the playoffs WITH A ROOKIE. Eat Crow all you Arians haters.

We have a new definition of football Steelers fans. 1 man is responsible for our demise this season. Do not look to any other positions or areas. Trade Ben, get some draft choices and let's draft 2 QBs. As soon as 1 has a bad game, let's shot him and put in the next one.

Ben is the WHOLE problem. In fact, let's draft 7 QBs and just shot the ones that don't perform. We don't need anything else to win.

[fansince'76]

He was converting them due to PLAY ACTION. How many points do you get for being efficient on third down? You mention the 1st nine games? We lost THREE games while Ben was great on third down.

The Broncos started 2-3 as well. So what? The difference is Manning has stayed healthy and the Broncos have run off ten straight. The Steelers ran off 4 straight and then Ben got hurt. There's the difference in the two teams' seasons in a nutshell.

[Butch]

I didn't read the entire thread so this may have been beat to death but Roethlisberger lost the season for us... not saying we had an alternative since Batch was an anomaly in his win against the Ravens... but his pick in OT against Dallas and his pick in late time 4th quarter play against the Bengals buried this team. I know everyone is going to point out his past stats and accomplishments but after the layoff I don't think he was close to 100% and it cost us in the end. I truly can't believe the Steelers did not run more today when it was working really well... instead Ben played school yard ball and got burned 2 weeks in a row.

So today's loss had nothing to do with a horrible snap on a chip shot of a F.G. by warren??? How bout the D in the game against the raiders or how many times did they fail to get off the field when the other team was 3rd and long??? How bout the turnovers in Cleaveland??? Dropped passes, special teams lapses you name it. Nope just like everything else this season was a case of the what ifs and a true team effort.

[Steelreal]

Sorry, but "not obeying Haley" doesn't explain why he has looked like Kordell Stewart for the last 3 weeks with the one-hop passes and inaccuracy when he was throwing darts up until the KC game. He's not 100%, period, and nobody's going to convince me otherwise.

Ben has done that his whole career. The Ben you saw at the beginning of the season was something new. You are looking for an excuse. Typical

[Lambert_Loonie]

We have a new definition of football Steelers fans. 1 man is responsible for our demise this season. Do not look to any other positions or areas. Trade Ben, get some draft choices and let's draft 2 QBs. As soon as 1 has a bad game, let's shot him and put in the next one.

Ben is the WHOLE problem. In fact, let's draft 7 QBs and just shot the ones that don't perform. We don't need anything else to win.

What a great idea! Let's just put a 'for sale' sign on Ben and put him on Craigslist. Maybe we can get a good deal for Ben on eBay.

[Butch]

If the Ravens perform in the playoffs like yesterday, no luck required. If they show up like the previous three weeks? Yikes!

As much as I hate the rats if it's between them and N.E. on who moves on I will be pulling for the rats...damn now I have to wash my mouth out with soap.

[Steelreal]

We have a new definition of football Steelers fans. 1 man is responsible for our demise this season. Do not look to any other positions or areas. Trade Ben, get some draft choices and let's draft 2 QBs. As soon as 1 has a bad game, let's shot him and put in the next one.

Ben is the WHOLE problem. In fact, let's draft 7 QBs and just shot the ones that don't perform. We don't need anything else to win.

Ben lost the game yesterday and vs Dallas. Fact

[fansince'76]

Ben has done that his whole career. The Ben you saw at the beginning of the season was something new. You are looking for an excuse. Typical

Sure he has. Keep believing that. Typical what-have-you-done-for-me-lately mentality. People like yourself are part and parcel of the same bunch who sit and cluelessly wonder why Bradshaw spent his first two decades post-retirement flipping a giant bird at this fanbase.

[Steelreal]

The Broncos started 2-3 as well. So what? The difference is Manning has stayed healthy and the Broncos have run off ten straight. The Steelers ran off 4 straight and then Ben got hurt. There's the difference in the two teams' seasons in a nutshell.

HOW does Manning stay healthy? Because he plays with his MIND. He gets the ball out early. He is smart. EVERYONE Swears by his intelligence. He is ALWAYS spending hours in film. He is always spending hours with his receivers working on timing and execution. All the things that OUR QUARTERBACK doesnt do.

We ran off 4 straight vs terrible teams. Whats so impressive about those 4 teams. I'm eliminating your excuses and you dont like it. Sorry. Lastly, we beat KC with LEFTWICH and NOT with Ben. He was hurt.Watch the games.

[fansince'76]

I'm eliminating your excuses and you dont like it.

No, I think you're completely full of shit and have pretty much ignored your inane "arguments" up to now, that's all.

[Steelreal]

Sure he has. Keep believing that. Typical what-have-you-done-for-me-lately mentality. People like yourself are part and parcel of the same bunch who sit and cluelessly wonder why Bradshaw spent his first two decades post-retirement flipping a giant bird at this fanbase.

Bradshaw was MONEY in big games. Bradshaw habitually beat Dallas, Minnesota, the Raiders and he lit them up. Ben doesnt light up good defenses. I'll CHALLENGE YOU AGAIN. Check Ben Roethlisbergers stats vs a GOOD DEFENSE, his WHOLE career and tell me what you find. You find average or below average stats. Not for one season, HIS WHOLE CAREER. Now prove me wrong. As for you excuses. The line? Ben has had a bad line for 9 years? Haley? Haley hasnt been here 9 years. Tomlin? Tomlin hasnt been there 9 years. Dropped passes? They only got out of hand this year. Arians? Arians was absent this year and look what happened.

See how I have stripped you of all excuses. For NINE YEARS Ben has looked average vs a good defense. And he habitually losses to bad teams. These are the facts

[43Hitman]

HOW does Manning stay healthy? Because he plays with his MIND. He gets the ball out early. He is smart. EVERYONE Swears by his intelligence. He is ALWAYS spending hours in film. He is always spending hours with his receivers working on timing and execution. All the things that OUR QUARTERBACK doesnt do.

We ran off 4 straight vs terrible teams. Whats so impressive about those 4 teams. I'm eliminating your excuses and you dont like it. Sorry. Lastly, we beat KC with LEFTWICH and NOT with Ben. He was hurt.Watch the games.

:troll: troll so hard :troll:

[fansince'76]

Bradshaw was MONEY in big games.

Really? I recall him throwing THREE picks in Super Bowl XIV, and another pick and a fumble returned for a TD in Super Bowl XIII. I think the greatest defense in NFL history had a little something to do with those wins.

[Steelreal]

No, I think you're completely full of shit and have pretty much ignored your inane "arguments" up to now, that's all.

Why are you mad? If I am FOS then you wouldnt be mad. Why dont you just refute my FOS points? Name calling? Really?

- - - Updated - - -

I'll wait for anyone to prove me wrong. Look at Bens stats vs a good defense, his whole career. Tell me what you find.

[zulater]

:troll: troll so hard :troll:

QFT. :nod:

[Butch]

Ben lost the game yesterday and vs Dallas. Fact

Fact...huh ok. Gee and I thought Warren's horrible snap might have had an impact on the game guess I was wrong. Not having a real running game all day was just a fluke right??? How bout the line giving up a couple of timely sacks...oh yeah that was Ben holding onto the ball to long. Your definition of what is fact leaves a lot to be desired!!!

[Count Steeler]

We ran off 4 straight vs terrible teams. Whats so impressive about those 4 teams. I'm eliminating your excuses and you dont like it. Sorry. Lastly, we beat KC with LEFTWICH and NOT with Ben. He was hurt.Watch the games.

We beat KC because our defense got a meaningful turnover.

[zulater]

Really? I recall him throwing THREE picks in Super Bowl XIV, and another pick and a fumble returned for a TD in Super Bowl XIII. I think the greatest defense in NFL history had a little something to do with those wins.

I love Bradshaw. but he had some awful games in his career. Even in his prime. He went 2-13 with 2 picks @ Buffalo in 82. And even in 79, a Super Bowl season he threw 0 td's and 5 interceptions in San Diego!

[Steelreal]

Really? I recall him throwing THREE picks in Super Bowl XIV, and another pick and a fumble returned for a TD in Super Bowl XIII. I think the greatest defense in NFL history had a little something to do with those wins.

I recall him being MVP in that three pick game. Did Stallworth deserve it? Yes. But terry won it. Bradshaws number in the SB were MONEY. Bradshaw had 9 TDS and 4 INS in FOUR Super Bowl wins. 2 Mvps. 1 league MVP.

NO CONTEST

- - - Updated - - -


We beat KC because our defense got a meaningful turnover.

So the defense is relevant when Ben is out and you admit this. But its NOT when BR is playing? What you have just described is how BR has won MOST of his NFL games.

[tube517]

Funny how NONE of these anti Ben threads never came out until now.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Steelreal]

Fact...huh ok. Gee and I thought Warren's horrible snap might have had an impact on the game guess I was wrong. Not having a real running game all day was just a fluke right??? How bout the line giving up a couple of timely sacks...oh yeah that was Ben holding onto the ball to long. Your definition of what is fact leaves a lot to be desired!!!

Sorry Warrens mishap happened early. We had the ball late with a chance to win or tie and Ben failed. Ben has lost to Dalton, Hasselback, Carson Palmer and Romo. Not to mention he ended last year with a loss to TEBOW smh

- - - Updated - - -


Funny how NONE of these anti Ben threads never came out until now.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

And that is telling. You guys have been lying to yourselves. I make you face the truth and you hate me for it. How come?

- - - Updated - - -

If Ben scores TOUCHDOWNS and doesnt leave it in the hand of a kicker, then problem is elimnated.

[Count Steeler]

So the defense is relevant when Ben is out and you admit this. But its NOT when BR is playing? What you have just described is how BR has won MOST of his NFL games.

Please show me where I have ever not given credit to the TEAM! You are the one picking on Ben to the point of irrelevancy. Your assertions have NO merit if you continually drivel that everything is on Ben.

You don't think Ben is elite. We get it. Anything else to contribute?

[Butch]

While Warrens snap happened early you can't deny it happened and to say it didn't have an impact on the game is idiotic. That's 3 points and it did have an impact.

Tell me again how many game winning touchdown drives did shady brady have in a Superbowl??? He left it up to a kicker and his special teams didn't let him down. HMMM!!!

[Steelreal]

I never said Ben was irrelevant. It is clear that he is a product of a great team. A team that wins with Leftwich, Batch and Dixon who happen to be BUMS. Have you EVER heard me call Ben that? NOPE. Ben has POTENTIAL but everyone is telling him how great he is. Guys LIKE YOU dont make him perfect his craft and it hurt our team. I love Haley, Cowher and Wiz because they CHALLENGE Ben to be better. It is hard work and Ben doesnt like it. Notice he didnt like Wiz, Cowher and now Haley? WHY? I just explained why. Notice he LOVES Tomlin/Arians? How come? Because they let him do what he wants to do. Joey Porter, Marvel and James Harrison and Hines have spoken out about this. Ben was seen as the LAZIEST guy on the team, it was so bad that Porter had to call him out. Later Batch had to sit him down and explain to him what it is to be a professional.

Ben had success early. Lots of it. As a result he cut corners in terms of preparation and developement. Lastly, I dont pick on Ben. I take his performance on the field and I evalaute him JUST LIKE you guys do with every other Steelers not named Ben. In my world the Qb is not off limits. Sorry

- - - Updated - - -


While Warrens snap happened early you can't deny it happened and to say it didn't have an impact on the game is idiotic. That's 3 points and it did have an impact.

Tell me again how many game winning touchdown drives did shady brady have in a Superbowl??? He left it up to a kicker and his special teams didn't let him down. HMMM!!!

Of course it had an impact but if we score a TD it is irrelevant. Why does warrens snap have more relevance than the 3 points that Ben gave away when he was sacked in FG range? Coming up to the line Ben should be tellilng himself "We have points right here I CANNOT take a sack here". But he doesnt in fact BEN DOES THIS ALL THE TIME. Also, how does Warrens bad hold, trump Ben missing a wide open Wallace for 7? Thats TEN points along with a pick 6 (Thats now 17 points).

I have just giving you an example of how Ben cost us 17 points. Now please make a case for Warren doing the same.

Lastly, why hasnt anyone proven me wrong? In 9 years LOOK at BR stats vs a good defense. What do you see?

[Steelreal]

I never said Ben was irrelevant. It is clear that he is a product of a great team. A team that wins with Leftwich, Batch and Dixon who happen to be BUMS. Have you EVER heard me call Ben that? NOPE. Ben has POTENTIAL but everyone is telling him how great he is. Guys LIKE YOU dont make him perfect his craft and it hurt our team. I love Haley, Cowher and Wiz because they CHALLENGE Ben to be better. It is hard work and Ben doesnt like it. Notice he didnt like Wiz, Cowher and now Haley? WHY? I just explained why. Notice he LOVES Tomlin/Arians? How come? Because they let him do what he wants to do. Joey Porter, Marvel and James Harrison and Hines have spoken out about this. Ben was seen as the LAZIEST guy on the team, it was so bad that Porter had to call him out. Later Batch had to sit him down and explain to him what it is to be a professional.

Ben had success early. Lots of it. As a result he cut corners in terms of preparation and developement. Lastly, I dont pick on Ben. I take his performance on the field and I evalaute him JUST LIKE you guys do with every other Steelers not named Ben. In my world the Qb is not off limits. Sorry

- - - Updated - - -



Of course it had an impact but if we score a TD it is irrelevant. Why does warrens snap have more relevance than the 3 points that Ben gave away when he was sacked in FG range? Coming up to the line Ben should be tellilng himself "We have points right here I CANNOT take a sack here". But he doesnt in fact BEN DOES THIS ALL THE TIME. Also, how does Warrens bad hold, trump Ben missing a wide open Wallace for 7? Thats TEN points along with a pick 6 (Thats now 17 points).

I have just giving you an example of how Ben cost us 17 points. Now please make a case for Warren doing the same.

Lastly, why hasnt anyone proven me wrong? In 9 years LOOK at BR stats vs a good defense. What do you see?

Also, the Steelers went 13-3 with Kordell. Due to Kordell? I THINK NOT

[Count Steeler]

I never said Ben was irrelevant. It is clear that he is a product of a great team. A team that wins with Leftwich, Batch and Dixon who happen to be BUMS. Have you EVER heard me call Ben that? NOPE. Ben has POTENTIAL but everyone is telling him how great he is. Guys LIKE YOU dont make him perfect his craft and it hurt our team. I love Haley, Cowher and Wiz because they CHALLENGE Ben to be better. It is hard work and Ben doesnt like it. Notice he didnt like Wiz, Cowher and now Haley? WHY? I just explained why. Notice he LOVES Tomlin/Arians? How come? Because they let him do what he wants to do. Joey Porter, Marvel and James Harrison and Hines have spoken out about this. Ben was seen as the LAZIEST guy on the team, it was so bad that Porter had to call him out. Later Batch had to sit him down and explain to him what it is to be a professional.

Ben had success early. Lots of it. As a result he cut corners in terms of preparation and developement. Lastly, I dont pick on Ben. I take his performance on the field and I evalaute him JUST LIKE you guys do with every other Steelers not named Ben. In my world the Qb is not off limits. Sorry

Now we are finally getting somewhere. My comment about irrelevancy was about your posts, not about Ben.

And maybe you haven't been around this board long enough to hear some of these criticisms on Ben, but they have been made.

Now to say, as you have been saying, that Ben returned 100% healthy and he was the same Ben as at the start of the year is misguided. Now you want to pin everything on Ben, but how about pinning some of those early losses on the D? If you credit the D for Ben's wins, why don't you blame the D, or other areas of the team, when Ben loses?
No doubt the last 2 games Ben was sub par and cost us the 2 games, but I am not so shortsighted as to ignore other areas of the team that also failed.

There is no doubt in my mind that Ben was not 100% in Dallas or yesterday. So I guess our first 9 games had a different person disguised as Ben, because he looked pretty damn sharp in those games.

[Butch]

Thank you for proving my point that Warren's 3 points had an impact and that in itself proves that Ben did not cost us this game alone!!! 3 points may not sound like much but in a closely contested every point could be a difference. 3 points (if all else plays out the same) would have us up by 3 when cincy kicked the game winner.

My point on shady brady shows how a kicker can make a difference or how a team needs to rely on everyone to do their job not just the QB.

[zulater]

Also, the Steelers went 13-3 with Kordell. Due to Kordell? I THINK NOT

And how many Super Bowls did they advance to and win in his time?

Seriously I don't know why the mods are putting up with this obvious troll? How do I know that he's a troll? Look at the other active threads today. Heath Miller's injury. Cortez Allen's great game. Larry Foote's future status. A thread about the pass rush. How many posts has he got in these threads combined? Hint, the same number of Super bowl rings that Kordell Stewart and Neil O'Donnell have combined.

:coffee:

that's the last time I'll adress this guy.

[steeldawg]

You cannot give all the credit to the team for the wins but give all the blame to the qb for the losses.

[Steelreal]

Now we are finally getting somewhere. My comment about irrelevancy was about your posts, not about Ben.

And maybe you haven't been around this board long enough to hear some of these criticisms on Ben, but they have been made.

Now to say, as you have been saying, that Ben returned 100% healthy and he was the same Ben as at the start of the year is misguided. Now you want to pin everything on Ben, but how about pinning some of those early losses on the D? If you credit the D for Ben's wins, why don't you blame the D, or other areas of the team, when Ben loses?
No doubt the last 2 games Ben was sub par and cost us the 2 games, but I am not so shortsighted as to ignore other areas of the team that also failed.

There is no doubt in my mind that Ben was not 100% in Dallas or yesterday. So I guess our first 9 games had a different person disguised as Ben, because he looked pretty damn sharp in those games.

Leftwich was not 100% vs the Browns. Did you give him the same pass? If you did then please provide proof via link.

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Thank you for proving my point that Warren's 3 points had an impact and that in itself proves that Ben did not cost us this game alone!!! 3 points may not sound like much but in a closely contested every point could be a difference. 3 points (if all else plays out the same) would have us up by 3 when cincy kicked the game winner.

My point on shady brady shows how a kicker can make a difference or how a team needs to rely on everyone to do their job not just the QB.

You blame the kicker. I'll blame Ben. Its your opinion and you are entitled to it. Do you see me getting upset? Not at all. Its human nature to have differing opinions, no need to get bent out of shape. This is directed at the masses and not particularly you. Brady is better than Ben and if he is in the burgh Ben is on the bench or traded. Thats the reality

[86WARD]

They should trade him for the Sanchize. For fucksake, a mod should lock this thread...

[zulater]

They should trade him for the Sanchize. For fucksake, a mod should lock this thread...

Close, but the thread isn't the problem here.

[Steelreal]

And how many Super Bowls did they advance to and win in his time?

Seriously I don't know why the mods are putting up with this obvious troll? How do I know that he's a troll? Look at the other active threads today. Heath Miller's injury. Cortez Allen's great game. Larry Foote's future status. A thread about the pass rush. How many posts has he got in these threads combined? Hint, the same number of Super bowl rings that Kordell Stewart and Neil O'Donnell have combined.

:coffee:

that's the last time I'll adress this guy.

He's mad and calling me a troll (name calling) because he HATES the truth. Notice he hasnt proved me wrong about Bens stats vs a Good defense? How come? Because he has found like all of you have that Ben plays below average or average vs a good defense. And he has his whole career. Now he is calling on the mods. What have I done? This thread is about BEN. What shall I post? YOU are the one name calling and being disrespectful just because I'm drowning you in a ocean of facts.

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Sorry Trolls dont have knowledge of the Steelers like I do. I provide in game examples that prove, I not only watch the games but understand them. Relax its a message board.

[Count Steeler]

:deadhorse:

I wanted to give you the last word Steelreal.