Guess who leads the AFC North in drops?

[stillers4me]

If you asked me who leads the AFC North in dropped passes, my three guesses would've been: Mike Wallace (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12601/mike-wallace), Mike Wallace and Mike Wallace. Well, I was wrong............

read more @
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/61622/guess-who-leads-the-afc-north-in-drops

[SteelerEmpire]

If you asked me who leads the AFC North in dropped passes, my three guesses would've been: Mike Wallace (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12601/mike-wallace), Mike Wallace and Mike Wallace. Well, I was wrong............

read more @
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/61622/guess-who-leads-the-afc-north-in-drops

I would have thought the same thing to. Wallace is a much more popular receiver than a lot of people think. When he "does" make a drop, it's 'heard around the world' as there are droves of non-steeler (and steeler) fans that watch games only to see Wallace flash across the field and catch bombs from Ben.

[Dwinsgames]

forget the NFL drops stats they are very skewed and not recognized the same as we fans see drops ... even Wallace's biggest fan here admits to 3 or more drops this year in 1 game ... yet he was credited by the league as having just 1 .....

most of us believe if the ball hits you in the hands and you fail to make the catch it is a drop ... the league has a far more puzzling definition that defies logic

[zulater]

The NFL is very forgiving to NFL receivers in what they officially consider drops.
Any ball not perfectly thrown or even remotely defended isn't officially a drop, even if the receiver had two hands on the ball.
Instead of drops they should figure out some way to quantify the number of catchable balls not caught.

[Moose]

Had me also on this one. My guess would definitely been in the Black/Yellow.

[Psycho Ward 86]

not surprising. Guys who get targeted a lot usually drop a lot too. brandon marshall has 4 seasons with 100+ catches but he makes tons of laughable drops too (see--> 1st packers/bears game)

[st33lersguy]

Wallace has to have more than 6 drops, 6 drops doesn't sound right. By the way when I read, that it wasn't Wallace before clicking the link, I then thought Antonio Brown

[zulater]

That 1st quarter bobble by Wallace against the Cowboys that cost us at the very least a fg attempt wasn't a drop by NFL standards, but any decent football man would recognize it for a drop. The ball was in his hands inbounds, but he wasn't good enough to make the play.

[steelreserve]

There's the technical definition of a drop - and then there are plays that aren't called "drops," but anyone who doesn't have a crack pipe hanging out of his mouth can see the receiver should have caught it easily. Wallace is probably pushing 20 on those.

Whatever criteria they're using for drops is obviously all fucked up. Does it have to hit you square in the face, and then a lump on your head pokes up through the top of your helmet, and your eyes spin like slot reels and come up "JACKASS - JACKASS" and your face turns into a donkey head and you say "hee-HAWWW?" No - I'm pretty sure Wallace has more than 6 of those too.

[Dwinsgames]

Does it have to hit you square in the face, and then a lump on your head pokes up through the top of your helmet, and your eyes spin like slot reels and come up "JACKASS - JACKASS" and your face turns into a donkey head and you say "hee-HAWWW?" No - I'm pretty sure Wallace has more than 6 of those too.


http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/HOF.gif

[CPanther95]

I'd rather just look at the completion % when targeted. It may not work as well comparing different teams' receivers, but on the same team - with the same QB - it will give you a more accurate ranking on the team.

[slippy]

all receivers drop a ton of passes. the biggest problem with this year's team, by far, is ball security.

[Steelreal]

forget the NFL drops stats they are very skewed and not recognized the same as we fans see drops ... even Wallace's biggest fan here admits to 3 or more drops this year in 1 game ... yet he was credited by the league as having just 1 .....

most of us believe if the ball hits you in the hands and you fail to make the catch it is a drop ... the league has a far more puzzling definition that defies logic
Yeah, But the NFL is not biased. However, Steeler fans are. If Ben throws a High pass, biased Steelers fans will credit Wallace with a Drop. NFL doesnt. How many people have mentioned how Wallace Blew by double coverage and while Ben was pump faking like a lunatic threw the ball late and Wallace had to come back and catch it like a punt. That has happened to Wallace his whole career but how many Steeler fans post these kind of things. I know I do. I have no bias.

Having said that Wallace has more screw ups than Ben but that doesnt mean that Bens should be overlooked either. Lastly, I think Wallace is a bigger problem for defenses scheme wise. Ben is subject to have a bad day. Wallace will be fast every day and thats why he is a problem. His speed

[Dwinsgames]

Yeah, But the NFL is not biased. However, Steeler fans are. If Ben throws a High pass, biased Steelers fans will credit Wallace with a Drop. NFL doesnt. How many people have mentioned how Wallace Blew by double coverage and while Ben was pump faking like a lunatic threw the ball late and Wallace had to come back and catch it like a punt. That has happened to Wallace his whole career but how many Steeler fans post these kind of things. I know I do. I have no bias.

Having said that Wallace has more screw ups than Ben but that doesnt mean that Bens should be overlooked either. Lastly, I think Wallace is a bigger problem for defenses scheme wise. Ben is subject to have a bad day. Wallace will be fast every day and thats why he is a problem. His speed

Dwight Stone was " fast " too , but his hands matched his last name far to often , he is no household name today because of it .....


Dwight Stone (born January 28, 1964 in Florala, Alabama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florala,_Alabama)) was an American football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football) wide receiver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_receiver) and kick returner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick_returner) in the National Football League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League) for the Pittsburgh Steelers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Steelers), the Carolina Panthers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Panthers), and the New York Jets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Jets). Stone originally signed with Pittsburgh as an undrafted free agent in 1987.He was an outstanding special teams gunner and kick returner for eight years with the Steelers. Stone had blazing speed,one of the fastest steelers ever. He was timed at 4.25 in the 40 yard dash. Legendary steelers coach Chuck Noll said that Stone was "the fastest player I've ever coached over 40 yards". He played college football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football) at Middle Tennessee State University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Tennessee_State_University). He is currently a police officer in Charlotte, North Carolina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte,_North_Carolina)

[Steelreal]

You are comparing Wallace to Stone? REALLY? lol

You posted his bio but not his stats, how come? Compare Wallaces stats to Stones and tell me what you find. Not a Wallace fan (Lazy bastard) but you guys act like his quarterback never throws him a bad ball. Thats what I mean by bias.

[Dwinsgames]

You are comparing Wallace to Stone? REALLY? lol

You posted his bio but not his stats, how come? Compare Wallaces stats to Stones and tell me what you find. Not a Wallace fan (Lazy bastard) but you guys act like his quarterback never throws him a bad ball. Thats what I mean by bias.


hey , physically they are the same guy .........

his stats are not as easily found as Wallace's sure you can find part of them but can not find any with his targets involved to do a fair comparison , however his 1991-2-3 seasons looks similiar to what we are seeing from Wallace today , further more we did not throw the ball nearly as much in 1991-92-93 as we do today ...just sayin

[Steelreal]

Physically? I remember stone being short #20 or something like that. He as NO Wallace and a HORRIBLE comparrison. If you cant find a comparrison then you have defeated your own case. Horrible comparrison

- - - Updated - - -

So Ben Roethlisberger, Batch have never thrown him bad passes? See last game. Can we be fair people? Guess not

[Dwinsgames]

Physically? I remember stone being short #20 or something like that. He as NO Wallace and a HORRIBLE comparrison. If you cant find a comparrison then you have defeated your own case. Horrible comparrison




stone 6' 191
wallace 6' 199

size relatively the same

[Steelreal]

Stones best year was 41 receptions 2 TDs. THATS NOT WALLACE

- - - Updated - - -


stone 6' 191
wallace 6' 199

size relatively the same

So since Casey Hampton is built like Goose are they the same person? Check their stats. Stone was a fricking running back turned receiver. Really????

- - - Updated - - -

Stone also changed his number from 20 to #80. Wallace could NEVER play Rb.

- - - Updated - - -

Its like Comparing Ben Roethlisberger to Ryan Leaf because they are similar in stature. Thats crazy

[Mojouw]

The stat still gives context to the Wallace discussion...something that is sometimes sorely lacking when Mr. Wallace comes up. I agree that the NFL's definition of drops is way out of wack. But one can realistically assume that if it is undercounting Wallace's drops it is undercounting other WR's by the approximately the same rate. Therefore, the #'s listed in that article while inaccurate are inaccurate by roughly the same percentage for everyone. It still shows that Wallace does not have an excessive amount of drops for WR's that see a high rate of targets per game (which he does when Ben is under center). Basically Wallace is in line with other high usage deep threat WR's when it comes to drops.

I do not feel that Wallace is worth a huge contract (he is not a WR in the mold of Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, etc) that a team wrecks it's salary cap structure for, but he is in the next tier down from that. I feel that there is far too much emotional reaction when it comes to evaluating Steelers (I wouldn't expect anything less). Just for the sake of comparison --

Victor Cruz:


79(rec)

1019(yards)

12.9(yards/rec)

9(TD)

80(long)

5.6(rec/game)

72.8(yards/game)




Mike Wallace:


63(rec)

823(yards)

13.1(yards/rec)

8(TD)

82(long)

4.5(rec/game)

58.8(yards/game)




Would anyone argue that Cruz is a bum and shouldn't be paid more than the $500K he is making this year? They have almost identical stats...

[steelreserve]

Yeah, But the NFL is not biased. However, Steeler fans are. If Ben throws a High pass, biased Steelers fans will credit Wallace with a Drop. NFL doesnt. How many people have mentioned how Wallace Blew by double coverage and while Ben was pump faking like a lunatic threw the ball late and Wallace had to come back and catch it like a punt. That has happened to Wallace his whole career but how many Steeler fans post these kind of things. I know I do. I have no bias.

Having said that Wallace has more screw ups than Ben but that doesnt mean that Bens should be overlooked either. Lastly, I think Wallace is a bigger problem for defenses scheme wise. Ben is subject to have a bad day. Wallace will be fast every day and thats why he is a problem. His speed

Are you complaining that the 60-yard bomb in the Cowboys game was underthrown? You do realize he threw it about 70 yards in the air, right? You can't throw it any farther than that.

[Steelreal]

Are you complaining that the 60-yard bomb in the Cowboys game was underthrown? You do realize he threw it about 70 yards in the air, right? You can't throw it any farther than that.

To hit a deep pass you have to release the ball EARLY and let the WR run under the ball. Ben habitually releases it TOO LATE (from all the ridiculous pump faking). Ben has done this to Wallace his WHOLE career. Here is how Leftwich hits Wallace in preseason of 09. Is he Better than Ben? NO WAY! However he understand how to release the ball early on a long pass. Ben has struggled his whole career with throwing the long ball consistently

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/08/birds-eye-view-breakdown-of-the-leftwich-to-wallace-touchdown/

- - - Updated - - -


The stat still gives context to the Wallace discussion...something that is sometimes sorely lacking when Mr. Wallace comes up. I agree that the NFL's definition of drops is way out of wack. But one can realistically assume that if it is undercounting Wallace's drops it is undercounting other WR's by the approximately the same rate. Therefore, the #'s listed in that article while inaccurate are inaccurate by roughly the same percentage for everyone. It still shows that Wallace does not have an excessive amount of drops for WR's that see a high rate of targets per game (which he does when Ben is under center). Basically Wallace is in line with other high usage deep threat WR's when it comes to drops.

I do not feel that Wallace is worth a huge contract (he is not a WR in the mold of Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, etc) that a team wrecks it's salary cap structure for, but he is in the next tier down from that. I feel that there is far too much emotional reaction when it comes to evaluating Steelers (I wouldn't expect anything less). Just for the sake of comparison --

Victor Cruz:


79(rec)

1019(yards)

12.9(yards/rec)

9(TD)

80(long)

5.6(rec/game)

72.8(yards/game)




Mike Wallace:


63(rec)

823(yards)

13.1(yards/rec)

8(TD)

82(long)

4.5(rec/game)

58.8(yards/game)




Would anyone argue that Cruz is a bum and shouldn't be paid more than the $500K he is making this year? They have almost identical stats...

This is a great objective post. Wallace is still lethargic and lazy but......

[Psycho Ward 86]

um right, and im a black republican and i wear glasses. just call me herman cain..

[steelreserve]

To hit a deep pass you have to release the ball EARLY and let the WR run under the ball. Ben habitually releases it TOO LATE (from all the ridiculous pump faking). Ben has done this to Wallace his WHOLE career. Here is how Leftwich hits Wallace in preseason of 09. Is he Better than Ben? NO WAY! However he understand how to release the ball early on a long pass. Ben has struggled his whole career with throwing the long ball consistently

Oh, OK. I get what you mean. For a moment I thought you meant he just didn't throw it far enough, and I was like, "come on, give the guy a break."

[Steelreal]

um right, and im a black republican and i wear glasses. just call me herman cain..

Or Clarence Thomas

[Dwinsgames]

Stones best year was 41 receptions 2 TDs. THATS NOT WALLACE

- - - Updated - - -



So since Casey Hampton is built like Goose are they the same person? Check their stats. Stone was a fricking running back turned receiver. Really????

- - - Updated - - -

Stone also changed his number from 20 to #80. Wallace could NEVER play Rb.

- - - Updated - - -

Its like Comparing Ben Roethlisberger to Ryan Leaf because they are similar in stature. Thats crazy

was not dodging the question was away ... I gave the size because you said they where not the same size that Stone was a short guy .... he is the same height

as for TDs ... maybe you should look again at his reception stats instead of his return stats or whatever it was you looked at to come up with the number 2 ...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StonDw00.htm

his best year was 91 not 93

[zulater]

You are comparing Wallace to Stone? REALLY? lol

You posted his bio but not his stats, how come? Compare Wallaces stats to Stones and tell me what you find. Not a Wallace fan (Lazy bastard) but you guys act like his quarterback never throws him a bad ball. Thats what I mean by bias.

This coming from someone who proposes that Leftwich is better than Ben.:heh:

[Steelreal]

This coming from someone who proposes that Leftwich is better than Ben.:heh:

SHOW me where I have said that

[Steelreal]

was not dodging the question was away ... I gave the size because you said they where not the same size that Stone was a short guy .... he is the same height

as for TDs ... maybe you should look again at his reception stats instead of his return stats or whatever it was you looked at to come up with the number 2 ...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StonDw00.htm

his best year was 91 not 93

I was being sarcastic I dont know Stones stats. I just know he wasnt good. You cant say that about Wallace. You are comparing their height? Is that your point? Ok

- - - Updated - - -


To hit a deep pass you have to release the ball EARLY and let the WR run under the ball. Ben habitually releases it TOO LATE (from all the ridiculous pump faking). Ben has done this to Wallace his WHOLE career. Here is how Leftwich hits Wallace in preseason of 09. Is he Better than Ben? NO WAY! However he understand how to release the ball early on a long pass. Ben has struggled his whole career with throwing the long ball consistently

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/08/birds-eye-view-breakdown-of-the-leftwich-to-wallace-touchdown/

- - - Updated - - -



This is a great objective post. Wallace is still lethargic and lazy but......

Someone is confused

[zulater]

SHOW me where I have said that

Sorry, you just claim that Leftwich throws a better deep ball. You have any idea what the league average is for completions on balls thrown over 40 yards, and how Ben stacks up to the league as a whole?

[Steelreal]

Sorry, you just claim that Leftwich throws a better deep ball. You have any idea what the league average is for completions on balls thrown over 40 yards, and how Ben stacks up to the league as a whole?

Uh Leftwich DOES throw a better deep ball and I'm sure EVERY current Steeler will agree. Completions of deep ball is flawed because if you throw a short pass that goes for a long gain, you still get credit for a deep ball completion. Montana benefitted from this greatly. But if you think Ben is a great deep ball thrower then that is your opinion. I think it is one of his weaknesses. Ben has limited weaknesses. Leftwich has three pages of them.

[Steelreal]

For example, Ben threw an underthrown pass to Wallace for 60 yards. Who made that play? Wallace did. Similarly, when Ben hits Wallace, Brown etc in the hands and the idiots drop it who suffers? BEN.

[BlastFurnace]

Uh Leftwich DOES throw a better deep ball and I'm sure EVERY current Steeler will agree. Completions of deep ball is flawed because if you throw a short pass that goes for a long gain, you still get credit for a deep ball completion. Montana benefitted from this greatly. But if you think Ben is a great deep ball thrower then that is your opinion. I think it is one of his weaknesses. Ben has limited weaknesses. Leftwich has three pages of them.

Agreed. Leftwich can throw the ball 70 yards, but how many times have we seen him complete any of them?

[Steelreal]

Agreed. Leftwich can throw the ball 70 yards, but how many times have we seen him complete any of them?

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/08/birds-eye-view-breakdown-of-the-leftwich-to-wallace-touchdown/

Not saying he is a good Qb but he can throw the long ball. He also Hit Nate Washington on his 1st play in the game after Ben hurt his back

[Dwinsgames]

I was being sarcastic I dont know Stones stats. I just know he wasnt good. You cant say that about Wallace. You are comparing their height? Is that your point? Ok

- - - Updated - - -



Someone is confused
OMG you said Stone was short ...I posted their heights so you could see they are identical in height ( but I already said that before you posted this ) so what is your point please ???????

[Steelreal]

OMG you said Stone was short ...I posted their heights so you could see they are identical in height ( but I already said that before you posted this ) so what is your point please ???????

Dude I'm 6'7 and played at Brigham Young. STONE, WALLACE AND BEN are short to me. Sheeesh
My point was Stone SUCKS, Wallace doesnt suck, he is just an underachiever and lazy.

If you think Stone and Wallace are similar then more power to you. I dont think they play anything alike and Wallace was never a Rb nor could he be.

[Psycho Ward 86]

This coming from someone who proposes that Leftwich is better than Ben.:heh:


Sorry, you just claim that Leftwich throws a better deep ball.

big difference...

[zulater]

big difference...

Call the fucking posting police already.:rolleyes:

[zulater]

Uh Leftwich DOES throw a better deep ball and I'm sure EVERY current Steeler will agree. Completions of deep ball is flawed because if you throw a short pass that goes for a long gain, you still get credit for a deep ball completion. Montana benefitted from this greatly. But if you think Ben is a great deep ball thrower then that is your opinion. I think it is one of his weaknesses. Ben has limited weaknesses. Leftwich has three pages of them.

I think he's about an average deep ball thrower by NFL standards. I never said he was great. And I know Leftwich can chuck it a mile. But does he complete a higher percentage of his long throws than Ben does?

And yes it's hard to quantify, because the way YAC is counted on to passes etc...

But really when you get right down to it there's not a lot of qb's who are completing a bunch of passes 40 yard past the line of scrimmage. Ben probably completes more of them than most. And Wallace is a big part of that no doubt. But that's not what being an NFL qb is about. Ben can throw a 25 yard out with the best of them. And that is what having an NFL arm is all about.

- - - Updated - - -

Bradshaw was one of the best deep ball throwers I've ever seen. Jurgenson in his prime was up there too. Randall Cunningham had a rocket on his shoulder and could throw it deep with the best of them.

Right now Aaron Rodgers and R.G. III probably throw the most accurate deep ball.

And oh yeah, I hear Kyle Boller can chuck it pretty far from his knees. Just ask Brian Billick! :chuckle:

[Steelreal]

I think he's about an average deep ball thrower by NFL standards. I never said he was great. And I know Leftwich can chuck it a mile. But does he complete a higher percentage of his long throws than Ben does?

And yes it's hard to quantify, because the way YAC is counted on to passes etc...

But really when you get right down to it there's not a lot of qb's who are completing a bunch of passes 40 yard past the line of scrimmage. Ben probably completes more of them than most. And Wallace is a big part of that no doubt. But that's not what being an NFL qb is about. Ben can throw a 25 yard out with the best of them. And that is what having an NFL arm is all about.

- - - Updated - - -

Bradshaw was one of the best deep ball throwers I've ever seen. Jurgenson in his prime was up there too. Randall Cunningham had a rocket on his shoulder and could throw it deep with the best of them.

Right now Aaron Rodgers and R.G. III probably throw the most accurate deep ball.

And oh yeah, I hear Kyle Boller can chuck it pretty far from his knees. Just ask Brian Billick! :chuckle:

Average deep ball thrower? I can agree with you on that but Like someone said on here "Ben is more of a throw to a receiver versus throw to a spot" that is 100% accurate you never see Ben throw with any "touch". I shouldnt say never. I'll rephrase that. You seldom see Ben throw many passes with "touch". Leftwich either. The touch guy is Batch. Terry Bradshaw's highlights are enriched with BOMBS, Ben has sprikles of bombs in his. Peyton Manning and Brady are excellent deep ball throwers. Its all about timing and practice

[Seven]

I enjoy monitoring threads where Steeldawg errr... Steelreal is posting :chuckle:

[43Hitman]

I enjoy monitoring threads where Steeldawg errr... Steelreal is posting :chuckle:

:lol:

[Psycho Ward 86]

Call the fucking posting police already.:rolleyes:

lol cant take anything you say seriously if you think saying a qb with a better deep ball is a better qb outright. but ok.

and ben doesnt have a great deep ball. that was well documented by a lot of fans starting a couple of years ago. a lot of people thought that was his only glaring weakness if any. but that must be another anti-wallace thing, trying to pretend ben has such an amazing deep ball so that any lack of production from wallace is 100% on him. lol

[zulater]

lol cant take anything you say seriously if you think saying a qb with a better deep ball is a better qb outright. but ok.

and ben doesnt have a great deep ball. that was well documented by a lot of fans starting a couple of years ago. a lot of people thought that was his only glaring weakness if any. but that must be another anti-wallace thing, trying to pretend ben has such an amazing deep ball so that any lack of production from wallace is 100% on him. lol

What the fuck are you talking about? :doh:

When did I ever say any of the shit you're attributing to me?

Put me on ignore please, so we'll be on equal footing after this post.

- - - Updated - - -

Ben can throw a 25 yard out with the best of them. And that is what having an NFL arm is all about.

[Dwinsgames]

http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

wow its not me into it with someone :ranger:

[Psycho Ward 86]

What the fuck are you talking about? :doh:

When did I ever say any of the shit you're attributing to me?

Put me on ignore please, so we'll be on equal footing after this post.

- - - Updated - - -

Ben can throw a 25 yard out with the best of them. And that is what having an NFL arm is all about.

you told steelreal he thought byron was a a better qb than ben, when all he said was that he thinks byron just has a better deep ball. that was posted in plain sight. dont twist people's words just to favor your argument.

and you need to be able to throw farther than 25 yards as an nfl qb. his deep ball seems to be the only area of his game where ben hasnt improved substantially during his career imo. but that's being nitpicky of course

[zulater]

Throwing a deep out is often used as a measuring stick of an NFL arm. Pointing out that a qb can throw that ball on time and with velocity usually conveys to someone with a little bit of a football I.Q that the qb in question can "make all the throws" an NFL qb needs to succeed.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Throwing a deep out is often used as a measuring stick of an NFL arm. Pointing out that a qb can throw that ball on time and with velocity usually conveys to someone with a little bit of a football I.Q that the qb in question can "make all the throws" an NFL qb needs to succeed.

a deep out? when you think deep ball you think deep out, as the measuring stick? being able to throw just a deep out doesnt convey at all that a qb can make all the throws to succeed. ben's taken his game to a whole new level the last couple of years no doubt, but he could be even better. if he wants to play at the brady, brees, rodgers, manning level, he needs to hit the deep post, deep flag, chair, and go routes to receivers in stride. Or at least well enough so that they dont have to tip toe the sideline to have even have a shot at catching the ball,or even worse, so that they dont have to completely turn around and come back to the ball. im sure part of that is injuries though.

[zulater]

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning probably don't complete on average more than one pass per game that traveled more than 3o yards in the air past the line of scrimmage.

Which up until this season was right about where Ben was per game.