Cowboys' Carr ready, waiting to pounce on Big Ben's throw

[stillers4me]

Cornerback Brandon Carr, who spent three years in Kansas City while Steelers (http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/)‘ offensive coordinator Todd Haley was head coach, proved once again that tendencies and habits often impact games in the NFL.

And when the Steelers gained possession for the first time in overtime Sunday, Carr put himself inside Haley‘s head.
Carr figured Haley wouldn‘t get greedy by deploying wide receivers Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown with deep routes — a game-ending strike to empty out Cowboys Stadium. Instead, he figured Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger would try to exploit the sometimes-timid Dallas cornerbacks with short routes to march methodically down field.

Carr guessed right.............


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3145534-74/carr-cowboys-roethlisberger#ixzz2FM8Lwj5N

[steeldawg]

I think it was just a really bad throw, way behind the receiver.

[Steelreal]

I think it was just a really bad throw, way behind the receiver.

Steeler fans get mad when you say things like that. I dont even know why Haley is even mentioned because we were in hurryup. Had nothing to do with Haley and his tendencies

[steeldawg]

Steeler fans get mad when you say things like that. I dont even know why Haley is even mentioned because we were in hurryup. Had nothing to do with Haley and his tendencies

We should be in the hurry up offense we are very good in it, I think this is what ben's beef is really about, he wants to call plays at the line go up tempo and open the offense up.

[Steelreal]

We arent good in it thats a misconception. When has Ben looked better than he has when Haley was calling the plays? Ben was on fire prior to injury. Now it seems like he wants to bring Old Ben back and try things his way. Haley had him in the MVP conversation. When is the last time we were effective in the hurryup? It failed again on Sunday.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I think it was just a really bad throw, way behind the receiver.

It was on the wrong side of Wallace and Carr made a play, nothing more than that. Ben said after the game that it was a bad throw. He took full responsibility.

[steeldawg]

ya i agree thats what im saying, i dont think it was carr waiting to pounce, if the throw is good carr is not even close.

[X-Terminator]

We arent good in it thats a misconception. When has Ben looked better than he has when Haley was calling the plays? Ben was on fire prior to injury. Now it seems like he wants to bring Old Ben back and try things his way. Haley had him in the MVP conversation. When is the last time we were effective in the hurryup? It failed again on Sunday.

The Steelers are 5th in the NFL in points scored in the final 5 minutes of the half, which is when you most often see the hurry-up. So I'd think he's pretty damn good at it based off that stat, and has always been good at it throughout his career.

[Chidi29]

We may also have a tendency to run that play in recent weeks. Something I'm looking into.

[Steelreal]

The Steelers are 5th in the NFL in points scored in the final 5 minutes of the half, which is when you most often see the hurry-up. So I'd think he's pretty damn good at it based off that stat, and has always been good at it throughout his career.
According to Ben we dont run it that much. I think Ben knows better than any of us. What you have just described is HALEY calling plays in Bens ear. Ben wants more control. He made direct quotes (We dont use it that much) to how little it is used. Ben has never looked as good as he has under Haley calling plays. That is a fact. I'm more comfortable with Haley calling plays than Ben. Ben is not a consistent good decision maker, he is impatient and looks for the big play. Haley's play calling is an good balance for Ben. Plus he is not in awe of Ben ala Arians and Tomlin. That is good for Ben

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Lastly, we rean No Huddle vs the Broncos and it ended in a pick six by Tracy Porter. See a pattern? Again, I am comfortable with Haley calling the plays

[LLT]

The Steelers are 5th in the NFL in points scored in the final 5 minutes of the half, which is when you most often see the hurry-up. So I'd think he's pretty damn good at it based off that stat, and has always been good at it throughout his career.



According to Ben we dont run it that much.


That doesnt contradict the stats.

[zulater]

That doesnt contradict the stats.


Actually that confirms it.

If you really want to get down to brass tacks you could fairly say that the Steelers offense hasn't gained any traction for the last few games until after they got away from Haley's initial scripted plays.

Basically we keep digging a hole in the first quarter, and as we all know the first 15 plays are strictly scripted. Problem is the other team seems to have been given a copy of the script as well and are virtually sitting on every play as they unfold.

Here's an intersting stat, the first and 3rd quaters are our worst for pointing points on the board. This year we've been especially awful coming out in the 2nd half. My feeling is that we're being overcoached and the further we are away from the scripted bullshit and coaching tweaks, and the more in control Ben is the better off we are.

Change it up, come right out and play with urgency with Ben in control and I'll bet we get better results.

[X-Terminator]

According to Ben we dont run it that much. I think Ben knows better than any of us. What you have just described is HALEY calling plays in Bens ear. Ben wants more control. He made direct quotes (We dont use it that much) to how little it is used. Ben has never looked as good as he has under Haley calling plays. That is a fact. I'm more comfortable with Haley calling plays than Ben. Ben is not a consistent good decision maker, he is impatient and looks for the big play. Haley's play calling is an good balance for Ben. Plus he is not in awe of Ben ala Arians and Tomlin. That is good for Ben

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Lastly, we rean No Huddle vs the Broncos and it ended in a pick six by Tracy Porter. See a pattern? Again, I am comfortable with Haley calling the plays

As LLT said, you did not contradict the stats. If they are scoring points at a good rate late in the half, that means they are efficient at running the hurry-up/no-huddle and Ben is in command. I might also add that the single biggest drive of his career - the one to win SB 43 - Ben was calling the plays throughout most of the drive. So because 2 games ended in interceptions means they should just throw it all away and never give Ben any kind of control over the offense? That makes zero sense. He's the franchise guy...he should be given a modicum of control over the offense.

[zulater]

By the way here's our score by quarters.

1st 57 2nd 97 3rd 61 4th 84.

[Steelreal]

As LLT said, you did not contradict the stats. If they are scoring points at a good rate late in the half, that means they are efficient at running the hurry-up/no-huddle and Ben is in command. I might also add that the single biggest drive of his career - the one to win SB 43 - Ben was calling the plays throughout most of the drive. So because 2 games ended in interceptions means they should just throw it all away and never give Ben any kind of control over the offense? That makes zero sense. He's the franchise guy...he should be given a modicum of control over the offense.
Quote stats all you like. I need examples, not stats. What games EXACTLY did we run no huddle with Ben in command. I gave you two games, Broncos and Cowboys. Both games ended the same way. Please present games and situations. Lastly, the no huddle is not the same as the hurryup. That should be noted

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So we run Scripted plays and Ben is not part of those plays being picked? REALLY? What OC in his right mind would run plays that his QB hates? Really.

I will remind you all of the words of Jaws who specifically breaks down how the playcalling works. The Quarterback has input

The play caller and the quarterback must be joined at the hip. What you must do as a quarterback and you do have input. Although I havent played in two decades, I know the systems that Quarterbacks and offensive coordinators have in place in regards to play calling. They have this sheet, that everyone goes over, all the quarterbacks. And you do have input. 1st down of a series, 1st and 10, 2nd and 1-3, 2nd and 4-6, 3rd and 1-3, 3rd and 4-6 etc. Every situation is on there. Every play is on that sheet and every play is listed and we see this IHOP menus that most coaches have. When you have your quarterback meeting on Friday or Saturday whatever the team decides that’s what they want to do. You go down that list- “Hey Ben the 1st 3rd and 7 and more, what do you like? The first short yard situation, what do you like? All of the quarterbacks give their input but the starter has the most. The quarterback does have input and if you’re smart enough which I think all of the quarterbacks in this league are at the end of your series you go to you Offensive Coordinator and say “You know the next time we get in 3rd and 7 or long or 3rd and 1 or 3 here is what I would like to do because this is what we are getting” You have got to have that constant communication so when the play is called you would have already talked about that play on the sideline before that series began. So there shouldn’t be any problem with the play being right or wrong. Mike Golic reads Ben Roethlisbergers comments. Jaws continues “Well I think they would have a meeting before the weekend meeting due to those comments. Possibly there was a discussion on the plane ride home about some of these comments. I guarantee you Toddy Haley heard about them immediately. But if Ben wants to talk after a game, I think that’s a mistake. Number 1 I think (If he felt that way about the play calling) he should have communicated this during the game. For example: “Hey coach Heath Miller is being covered by that Linebacker one on one lets call some plays to get him the ball” He should have done that rather than wait after the game and say “We didn’t call plays for Heath Miller” I think its incumbent upon Ben Roethlisberger to have input about that Now if he said “Todd Haley blew me off” now then I’d be upset. He should have input, he is a veteran quarterback who probably knows this offense better than Todd Haley does.

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Actually the Steelers have never scored many points in the Roethlisberger era. In nine years how many times have we hit 40 points? Take a guess

[Steelreal]

4 Times over 40 pts in NNE years. Twice under Wiz. Twice Under Arians. Like I said we have never been an efficient offense under Ben. Yes we win due to our defense and clutch plays by Ben. But our offense has always been inconsistent.
05 Cleverland 41-0
06 Kansas City 45-7
07 St. Louis 41-24
10 Cleveland 41-9

[Steelreal]

As LLT said, you did not contradict the stats. If they are scoring points at a good rate late in the half, that means they are efficient at running the hurry-up/no-huddle and Ben is in command. I might also add that the single biggest drive of his career - the one to win SB 43 - Ben was calling the plays throughout most of the drive. So because 2 games ended in interceptions means they should just throw it all away and never give Ben any kind of control over the offense? That makes zero sense. He's the franchise guy...he should be given a modicum of control over the offense.

You are a FAN as am I. Do you think that you and I know better than the coaches who are there with him every day? I dont think I know better. Has ANYONE referred to Ben Roethlisberger as a good decision maker? Do they call him cerebral? Why not? Because his actions on and off the field dont warrant it. What is said about Ben? "He extends the play" "He is strong" "He is tough". You guys are sitting here blaming an OC and that alone makes the case. Do you hear of any OC problems wherever Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady play? Why not? Because again, these guys make the OC obsolete due to their preparation, film study and knowledge of the game. Am I saying that Ben is dumb? Of course not. Just saying that he doesnt know defenses like the aformentioned guys and therefore he NEEDS an OC.

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Actually that confirms it.

If you really want to get down to brass tacks you could fairly say that the Steelers offense hasn't gained any traction for the last few games until after they got away from Haley's initial scripted plays.

Basically we keep digging a hole in the first quarter, and as we all know the first 15 plays are strictly scripted. Problem is the other team seems to have been given a copy of the script as well and are virtually sitting on every play as they unfold.

Here's an intersting stat, the first and 3rd quaters are our worst for pointing points on the board. This year we've been especially awful coming out in the 2nd half. My feeling is that we're being overcoached and the further we are away from the scripted bullshit and coaching tweaks, and the more in control Ben is the better off we are.

Change it up, come right out and play with urgency with Ben in control and I'll bet we get better results.

Ben IS in control. Do you think that Haley scripted the 1st 15 plays without Ben's input? Come on bro. "Ok Ben what do you like here". Ben tells him and he puts the play in. Under Haley Ben took less sacks, Ben was more efficient, we led the league in third down pct. When have we ever done that? NEVER. What did Manning tell Ben after the Bronco game? "You were awesome on third down"

[X-Terminator]

You are a FAN as am I. Do you think that you and I know better than the coaches who are there with him every day? I dont think I know better. Has ANYONE referred to Ben Roethlisberger as a good decision maker? Do they call him cerebral? Why not? Because his actions on and off the field dont warrant it. What is said about Ben? "He extends the play" "He is strong" "He is tough". You guys are sitting here blaming an OC and that alone makes the case. Do you hear of any OC problems wherever Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady play? Why not? Because again, these guys make the OC obsolete due to their preparation, film study and knowledge of the game. Am I saying that Ben is dumb? Of course not. Just saying that he doesnt know defenses like the aformentioned guys and therefore he NEEDS an OC.

First of all, I am not one of those people blaming Haley. Second of all, while he may not be as "cerebral" and isn't as good of a decision-maker as Brady, P. Manning and Rodgers (Eli does not count - he has made more bonehead decisions than Ben ever has), it does not mean he doesn't deserve more control over the offense. Third of all, the fact that the man has 28 career GW or GT drives, including one on the biggest stage of them all, means that he has PROVEN that when he is given the reins over the play-calling while running the hurry-up, he gets the job done more often than not. Two late-game INTs this season doesn't erase that no matter how much you want to pretend it does. There is no reason whatsoever why Ben can't run the no-huddle offense more often. I mean, he's only their franchise QB...why should he get that responsibility?

[Steelreal]

I guarantee you EVERY play we run, Ben has endorsed said play in a quarterback meeting. We dont run any plays that our Quarterback doesnt like. So if there is a bad call, blame Ben (he endorsed it). No OC in his right mind is going to call a play or run one that his quarterback doesnt like. Lastly, I agree with you Eli HAS made way more boneheaded plays than Ben. He has also proven to be as equally as clutch as Ben too. Eli reads defenses better than Ben and you NEVER hear any OC woes in NY. Wonder why?

[steeldawg]

Actually that confirms it.

If you really want to get down to brass tacks you could fairly say that the Steelers offense hasn't gained any traction for the last few games until after they got away from Haley's initial scripted plays.

Basically we keep digging a hole in the first quarter, and as we all know the first 15 plays are strictly scripted. Problem is the other team seems to have been given a copy of the script as well and are virtually sitting on every play as they unfold.

Here's an intersting stat, the first and 3rd quaters are our worst for pointing points on the board. This year we've been especially awful coming out in the 2nd half. My feeling is that we're being overcoached and the further we are away from the scripted bullshit and coaching tweaks, and the more in control Ben is the better off we are.

Change it up, come right out and play with urgency with Ben in control and I'll bet we get better results.

You are hitting the nail right on the head here!!! Our offense has been dead in the first half of football games but we always manage points right before the half, why? because we go into hurry up mode and thats when we are at our best.

[Steelreal]

Are you guys suggesting we run No huddle all game? If so you will start a brawl. How many teams run no huddle as their primary offense? Zero. Not even 30% of the time.

The numbers by quarters is flawed. You must take into consideration WHO the opponent was etc. It also doesnt account for fumbles, sacks, penalties etc. Variables that cant be ignored.

[Count Steeler]

It's all about tempo and pattern. The offense is in a rut. I can't remember the last time they tried a running play outside of the tackles. It just seems that it is always up the gut.

As for our shotgun, does anyone know when Ben is calling for the snap? The whole friggin' NFL knows when the snap is coming. First leg kick is never used for snaps, God forbid they would try it once and a while. The snap is ALWAYS coming on the second leg kick from Ben. If I was a defensive lineman and I was going up against the Steelers, I would be salivating at the opportunities.

Or maybe they are just saving some plays for the playoffs. You know, keep them off the tape.

[Steelreal]

It's all about tempo and pattern. The offense is in a rut. I can't remember the last time they tried a running play outside of the tackles. It just seems that it is always up the gut.

As for our shotgun, does anyone know when Ben is calling for the snap? The whole friggin' NFL knows when the snap is coming. First leg kick is never used for snaps, God forbid they would try it once and a while. The snap is ALWAYS coming on the second leg kick from Ben. If I was a defensive lineman and I was going up against the Steelers, I would be salivating at the opportunities.

Or maybe they are just saving some plays for the playoffs. You know, keep them off the tape.

Thats the beauty of Rashard Mendenhall. HE can run Counters and sweeps. He has the speed. But Redman and Dwyer do not. They limit our playbooks. Mendy could also pop a dive outside and bust it for a big gain.

[Count Steeler]

Thats the beauty of Rashard Mendenhall. HE can run Counters and sweeps. He has the speed. But Redman and Dwyer do not. They limit our playbooks. Mendy could also pop a dive outside and bust it for a big gain.

If Mendy was benched solely for his fumble, then Tomlin has problems. I think there is more going on behind the scenes with this team. I am hoping with the return of Dan, some issues are going to get sorted out.

[Steelreal]

Tomlin is the problem. Lastly, What games EXACTLY did we run no huddle with Ben in command

[Chidi29]

Tomlin is the problem. Lastly, What games EXACTLY did we run no huddle with Ben in command

Statistically speaking, with less than two minutes in the half, Ben is completing 60.3% for 502 yards, 8 YPA, with 5 TDs and 1 INT.

[Steelreal]

That has to be pre injury. But that stat doesnt mean we were in no huddle.

[Chidi29]

That has to be pre injury. But that stat doesnt mean we were in no huddle.

It's for the entire year. And you did not specify pre or post injury.

And while you're right it doesn't mean no huddle, it's reasonable to assume so since that's when you see it the most. Even if you can't see the specific numbers in the no huddle, looking at the whole, it is almost certain that his no huddle stats were good, too.

[Seven]

We should be in the hurry up offense we are very good in it, I think this is what ben's beef is really about, he wants to call plays at the line go up tempo and open the offense up.

Hurry up offense or "no huddle" is generally run in the closing minutes of a half. Therefore it is often run against the prevent defense (or a soft-shell defense) which gives the illusion that it's much more effective than it actually is. This applies to all teams, not just the Steelers. Moving to an all "no huddle" offense - or simply increasing the frequency with which you run it - would significantly reduce its effectiveness.

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We may also have a tendency to run that play in recent weeks. Something I'm looking into.

Please let us know what you find. I was considering looking at that myself.

[steeldawg]

Hurry up offense or "no huddle" is generally run in the closing minutes of a half. Therefore it is often run against the prevent defense (or a soft-shell defense) which gives the illusion that it's much more effective than it actually is. This applies to all teams, not just the Steelers. Moving to an all "no huddle" offense - or simply increasing the frequency with which you run it - would significantly reduce its effectiveness.

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Please let us know what you find. I was considering looking at that myself.

Peyton manning and tom brady use it all the time, because it doesnt give the defense a chance to subsitute and generally keeps them in a base defense.

[zulater]

Peyton manning and tom brady use it all the time, because it doesnt give the defense a chance to subsitute and generally keeps them in a base defense.

Yep. The Patriots and whatever team Peyton Manning is qb'ing will often use an uptempo offense to gain early control of the game.

[Psycho Ward 86]

im interested to see how many plays peyton manning and tom brady run on average through a full game compared to us. Especially brady, who's just notoriously lightning fast in the no huddle.

[zulater]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2012.htm

The Patriots have run 1045 plays

The Broncos 939

The Steelers 907

[zulater]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/12/breaking-down-the-ben-roethlisberger-incomplete-passes-against-the-cowboys/

Good breakdown on Ben's overall game against the Cowboys from Steelers depot.

[Psycho Ward 86]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2012.htm

The Patriots have run 1045 plays

The Broncos 939

The Steelers 907

wow i thought there wouldve been a bigger difference. Still, the broncos and patriots must run a significant number of more no huddle plays than we do.

[Steelreal]

They do because they have "coaches" on the field (Manning Brady). We dont. Brady has had Mcdaniels,Weis and Obrien and hasnt missed a beat. Manning is on his 2nd system and has mastered it. These guys are like Scholars amongst the Quarterbacks

[steeldawg]

we have to do something, we come out flat everygame we need to try and get things moving early and it might even help the running game.

[Steelreal]

3wr set was lethal in 09 with Wallace, Santonio and Hines. It could be again with Wallace, AB And Sanders but the receivers have got to be focused. Too many mental lapses by all the Steelers. I blame Tomlin. No one else

[Psycho Ward 86]

3wr set was lethal in 09 with Wallace, Santonio and Hines. It could be again with Wallace, AB And Sanders but the receivers have got to be focused. Too many mental lapses by all the Steelers. I blame Tomlin. No one else

it amazes me that we cant match that trio's production. i feel like sanders could/should be a better #3 than wallace was, and i feel like wallace could/should be better than santonio that year

[Steelreal]

Agreed

[Mojouw]

They do because they have "coaches" on the field (Manning Brady). We dont. Brady has had Mcdaniels,Weis and Obrien and hasnt missed a beat. Manning is on his 2nd system and has mastered it. These guys are like Scholars amongst the Quarterbacks

To be fair, Manning is not really on his second system. He installed his offense (or whatever they ran in Indy) out in Denver. What is impressive is not his ability to master another system, but to teach and implement his system to another group of players.

[Steelreal]

To be fair, Manning is not really on his second system. He installed his offense (or whatever they ran in Indy) out in Denver. What is impressive is not his ability to master another system, but to teach and implement his system to another group of players.

I agree but its my understanding that he couldnt take Indy's playbook with him. Irsay wouldnt allow it. Denver implemented their system and added a lot of the No Huddle (whick Peyton brought from Indy)
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000088186/article/peyton-manning-deftly-directs-explosive-denver-broncos-offense

[BlastFurnace]

it amazes me that we cant match that trio's production. i feel like sanders could/should be a better #3 than wallace was, and i feel like wallace could/should be better than santonio that year

I agree. IMO, Sanders is a disappointment.

[Steelreal]

Agreed.

[steelerdude15]

I agree. IMO, Sanders is a disappointment.

Why is Manny a disappointment to you?

[Seven]

3wr set was lethal in 09 with Wallace, Santonio and Hines. It could be again with Wallace, AB And Sanders but the receivers have got to be focused. Too many mental lapses by all the Steelers. I blame Tomlin. No one else

How do you blame Tomlin for the shortcomings of our wide receivers?


Peyton manning and tom brady use it all the time, because it doesnt give the defense a chance to subsitute and generally keeps them in a base defense.

As you can see from Zu's post, that is totally inaccurate. They do not use it "all the time" - because it doesn't work as a fulltime offensive system.

[Steelreal]

Because their problem is lack of focus. Why does he Bench the running backs for fumbling and not the wide receivers? I realize you cant bench Wallace and Brown at the same time for packages purposes. However, you can certainly let Crotchery/Plax sub a series or two for lazy play, drops, lack of effort and no focus (Wallace) and No focus, fumbling, lack of pressence of mind Brown. You think the running backs arent asking this question amongst themselves? His inconsistency could potentially divide the team. The receiver keep making the same STUPID mistakes because theyre arent any penalties for their actions.

[steeldawg]

How do you blame Tomlin for the shortcomings of our wide receivers?



As you can see from Zu's post, that is totally inaccurate. They do not use it "all the time" - because it doesn't work as a fulltime offensive system.

saying they use it all the time is a figure of speech, meaning they use it frequently, if say i go to the beach all the time, that doesnt mean i spend all of my time going to the beach. i think peyton operates close to half his offensive snaps from the no huddle and brady i think is around 30%

[Seven]

Because their problem is lack of focus. Why does he Bench the running backs for fumbling and not the wide receivers? I realize you cant bench Wallace and Brown at the same time for packages purposes. However, you can certainly let Crotchery/Plax sub a series or two for lazy play, drops, lack of effort and no focus (Wallace) and No focus, fumbling, lack of pressence of mind Brown. You think the running backs arent asking this question amongst themselves? His inconsistency could potentially divide the team. The receiver keep making the same STUPID mistakes because theyre arent any penalties for their actions.

I get what you're saying I just don't see what good benching Brown and Sanders does, I don't feel like their fumbles were due to lack of discipline. Sanders has fumbled both times while trying to change ball carrying hands - which he's supposed to do. And Brown just got stripped. I can see it more with Wallace as he has been a true repeat offender in my opinion, but with the other two guys I really don't know what I would suggest Tomlin do other than make them hit the jugs at practice and carry footballs all week long.

[Steelreal]

You take away a atheletes snaps and money. THAT gets thier attention. Carrying footballs is more of an embarrasment punishment. Shame them so that they wont revisit the act. If you punish Wallace and not the other two, then you would be doing precisely what Tomlin is doing

[steeldawg]

these are pros i dont think you need to punish them for them to know they have to hold onto the ball. When guys struggle you have to let them play through it, benching them is probably the worst thing you could do.

[Seven]

You take away a atheletes snaps and money. THAT gets thier attention. Carrying footballs is more of an embarrasment punishment. Shame them so that they wont revisit the act. If you punish Wallace and not the other two, then you would be doing precisely what Tomlin is doing

So you're supposed to suspend a guy without pay for fumbling a couple times? It happens. It's not like they're Mendenhall who fumbled twice in two plays. And Tomlin has taken snaps away from Wallace and Sanders. So again, I don't see what more you want him to do. He could take more snaps away than he already has, but then you significantly reduce the amount of playmakers you have on the field during a time where we have must win games - that would be bad coaching.

[zulater]

these are pros i dont think you need to punish them for them to know they have to hold onto the ball. When guys struggle you have to let them play through it, benching them is probably the worst thing you could do.

Agree 100%! Use it as a coaching moment. But no one's confidence or game improves from the sideline.

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Why is Manny a disappointment to you?

I think the seperated should has been an issue. Some guys can ignore the pain, some try to but can't.

[Steelreal]

these are pros i dont think you need to punish them for them to know they have to hold onto the ball. When guys struggle you have to let them play through it, benching them is probably the worst thing you could do.

I agree, INITIALLY. However, when it continues you have to set an example so they all realize what the standard is.

[Steelreal]

So you're supposed to suspend a guy without pay for fumbling a couple times? It happens. It's not like they're Mendenhall who fumbled twice in two plays. And Tomlin has taken snaps away from Wallace and Sanders. So again, I don't see what more you want him to do. He could take more snaps away than he already has, but then you significantly reduce the amount of playmakers you have on the field during a time where we have must win games - that would be bad coaching.

Suspend a guy without pay? Sorry I wasnt clear. I think suspending without Pay for fumbling would raise an issuer with the NFLPA. What I meant was MONEY and PLAYING time are the two things that get their attention (Ask Goodell). The monetary part has to do with bonusus and incentives. Dropped passes, fumbles etc dont equate to incentives if they continue. Yes, tomlin did take away snaps from Wallace and how has he played since? 17 catches for about 250 and 2 TD (Shouldve been 3). I think the benching did him good and makes my point. I dont recall Sanders losing snaps, nor Brown and they are still making mental errors. I recall Sanders starting for Wallace after he was benched