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Dwinsgames
12-17-2012, 12:14 PM
games are won and lost by the players on the field more often than not ........

preparation is important no doubt it has you ready at the onset of a game but no amount of preparation should be a factor late in games , at that point you as a player should have the ebb and flow of game inside you and the most basic of basic fundamental's ( Ball security ) or lack thereof was why we lost this game !!

as in so many games this season we lost because we turned the football over more times than our opponent did point blank that is the culprit for not only this loss but a handful of them thus far and turnovers ( not the lack of getting them ) but US putting the ball on the ground is why we sit at 7-7 .....

every loss this season we turned the football over more times than the opposition did and in each one of those games the difference in score was a direct result of those turnovers ....

You can Blame Tomlin ( and many will because the end result goes to the HC shoulders )

You can Blame Lebeau .. albeit you would be wrong in doing so because its not the Def it is the def always having to cover up for the fact we turned it over on O or ST ....

you can Blame Haley ... but is he on the field fumbling the ball ????

the blame lays directly at the feet of our players , no need to search all over the place to find the reasons the reasons are a bounty and not 1 player specific , lots of blame pie to go around ...

Sanders Fumbling completed passes .... Brown fumbling completed passes and punt returns .... Wallace Fumbling completed passes and dropping far to many balls .... the RBs fumbling far to many times ....
going into last nights game we had 6 losses 5 of which the outcome was directly effected by our turnovers and the points scored off of them by the opposition was more the the final score difference



In 6 losses....the Steelers have lost the Turn Over battle 17-4

Only the Broncos and Peyton Manning would still have beaten the Steelers if you take away points after turnovers.


denver 1-1 (lost by 12 Broncos scored 7 points off turnovers

Oakland 2-1 (lost by 3 Raiders scored 10 points off turnovers

Tenn 1-1 (lost by 3 Titans scored 3 points off turnovers and 7 by blocked punt

Balt 3-0 (lost by 3 Ravens scored 6 points off turnovers and 7 by punt return

Brown 8-1 (lost by 7 Browns Scored 17 off turnovers

Chargers 2-0 (lost by 10 Chargers Scored 14 off turnovers

Last night was no different ........

so if you are hell bent on blaming someone for our pathetic seasons performance ..... Blame your teams players for not having sound fundamentals !! if I where a betting man ( lol well I am so ) I will bet anybody here anything they want to bet that training camp in Latrobe next year will be FOCUSED on basic Fundamentals ( something at this stage of everyone's career they should be plenty aware of since they are supposedly professionals ) .......

GBMelBlount
12-17-2012, 12:19 PM
So....you can't blame the coaches for not drilling enough fundamentals? :grin:

...great post by the way.

Dwinsgames
12-17-2012, 12:26 PM
So....you can't blame the coaches for not drilling enough fundamentals? :grin:

...great post by the way.


oh you can blame them if you so desire , but it does not make you right in doing so ... point being at this stage it should already be instilled in the players and secondly at the end of the day it is still on the players to execute ....

I think Tomlin and Co , drive home that effort in Latrobe next training camp to drive it into the players brain that it is on them and do it do it do it some more as a punishment of sorts so we fans are not punished with inept play when it maters ... I could be wrong but am willing to bet I am not ...



and thanks

Bluecoat96
12-17-2012, 12:28 PM
Geez....stop making sense with these logical arguments and stuff. lol

Good post.

Dwinsgames
12-17-2012, 12:40 PM
Geez....stop making sense with these logical arguments and stuff. lol

Good post.


http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/but.gif

GBMelBlount
12-17-2012, 01:35 PM
oh you can blame them if you so desire , but it does not make you right in doing so ... point being at this stage it should already be instilled in the players and secondly at the end of the day it is still on the players to execute ....

I think Tomlin and Co , drive home that effort in Latrobe next training camp to drive it into the players brain that it is on them and do it do it do it some more as a punishment of sorts so we fans are not punished with inept play when it maters ... I could be wrong but am willing to bet I am not ...



and thanks

I have always felt that if you are not constantly working to improve in all areas, it is easy to go backwards. Whether mentally or physically even "professionals" can forget fundamentals if they are not constantly drilled in. Again, it appears to me there is too much complacency and too much of an assumption (and I am not meaning this towards you) that professionals don't forget the fundamentals or have problems getting fired up for games week after week. I just think it is human nature, D.

BlastFurnace
12-17-2012, 01:44 PM
All I know is that our best players are not winning their matchups...even against other teams backups...on the field and one of our best players....AB...keeps making mental mistakes every single week. Our best RB is inactivate for 2 weeks and then suspended in leau of Chris Rainey who doesn't belong on an NFL roster. We have a QB that questions the playcalling and rightfully so. Can somone...anyone...tell me what Rainey offers to this team. I don't care about his "alleged" 4.2 forty time. He may be fast, but he isn't quick and he doesn't make plays.

Whether these shortcomings, personell decisions, or whatever is wrong with this team falls on coaches or players. There is an issue and it needs to be fixed.

Dwinsgames
12-17-2012, 01:59 PM
All I know is that our best players are not winning their matchups...even against other teams backups...on the field and one of our best players....AB...keeps making mental mistakes every single week. Our best RB is inactivate for 2 weeks and then suspended in leau of Chris Rainey who doesn't belong on an NFL roster. We have a QB that questions the playcalling and rightfully so. Can somone...anyone...tell me what Rainey offers to this team. I don't care about his "alleged" 4.2 forty time. He may be fast, but he isn't quick and he doesn't make plays.

Whether these shortcomings, personell decisions, or whatever is wrong with this team falls on coaches or players. There is an issue and it needs to be fixed.

lets first try and sort out your misconception's before we try and do anything else ..........

1) Mendy has not proven to be our best RB THIS year from any stand point ( the league is about NOW not the past so forget about 3 years ago those days are gone and have no baring on today )

2) Rainey is not active in leau of of Mendy , he is active because of Mendy's lack of conviction to his work ethic and his team obligations

3) Rainey is plenty quick and he does make plays , clearly you are not watching the same game the rest of us are in that regard ....


As a runner ...

Rainey has 25 attempts on the season for 100 yards .. that is 4.0 YPC and has 2 TDs ,
Mendy has 34 attempts on the season for 113 yards....that is 3 YPC NO rushing Tds and 3 fumbles ......

BlastFurnace
12-17-2012, 02:24 PM
lets first try and sort out your misconception's before we try and do anything else ..........

1) Mendy has not proven to be our best RB THIS year from any stand point ( the league is about NOW not the past so forget about 3 years ago those days are gone and have no baring on today )

2) Rainey is not active in leau of of Mendy , he is active because of Mendy's lack of conviction to his work ethic and his team obligations

3) Rainey is plenty quick and he does make plays , clearly you are not watching the same game the rest of us are in that regard ....


As a runner ...

Rainey has only 25 attempts on the season for 100 yards .. that is 4.0 YPC and has 2 TDs ,
Mendy has 34 attempts on the season 113 yards........that is 3 YPC NO rushing Tds and 3 fumbles ......

Are you seriously saying that Rainey offers more to the team than Mendenhall right now?

Let's look at your comments:

1) Mendy has not proven to be our best RB THIS year from any stand point ( the league is about NOW not the past so forget about 3 years ago those days are gone and have no baring on today ) - Good thing that you aren't Adrian Peterson's coach. He'd ride the pine for fumbles and you'd replace him with Rainey. Mendenhall, after he came back from his injury, fumbled...like every other RB on the roster in Cleveland. He also played a very good game against Philadelphia. Running backs are going to fumble from time to time. Even the great one's do (and no...I am not saying that Mendenhall is great). The entire offense in Cleveland stunk. By your same argument, Woodley, Polamalu, and Hampton should all be on the bench because they have all been outplayed this season by other people on the roster.

2) Rainey is not active in leau of of Mendy , he is active because of Mendy's lack of conviction to his work ethic and his team obligations - How about we stick the entire "Young Money" crew on the bench then for their many mental errors. Is that a lack of conviction to their work ethic? How about Woodley showing up to camp out of shape. Is that a part of a lack of conviction? If you're going to bench one, bench them all. Tomlin is inconsistent in how he disciplines this team. Mendenhall made a mistake in the way he handled himself for the San Diego game, but it sure didn't help things that he was inactivated for 2 games when other players who are underperforming just keep on playing.

3) Rainey is plenty quick and he does make plays , clearly you are not watching the same game the rest of us are in that regard .... - Name them. Besides some nice kickoff returns against the Giants and his two TD's, what has he done? He's not quick like Willie Parker, he is fast, but it takes him a while to get moving. He's put in on 3rd down plays, but what does he offer? What has he done to justify being in there as much as he is. I maintain that Mendenhall, even as a 3rd down back, would offer more.

And get off your high horse with your misconception talk and your "you are not watching the same game as the rest of us" crap. I watch the same games as you do. Rainey is not Darren Sproles. He has offered very little to this team.

Mojouw
12-17-2012, 02:31 PM
Isn't this the same story as one of the recent post SB seasons? I think it was 2009. The team lost a ton of games it should have won and it was all due to lack of turnovers and other ill-teamed execution/mental mistakes.

Really I haven't seen too much you can put on the coaching staff this year. They have put their players in position to win games and the players have failed to execute. Heck, I figure Lake and Lebeau deserve a medal for cobbling together a solid defense out of what they have had to work with - let alone a intermittently dominating one.

- - - Updated - - -


Are you seriously saying that Rainey offers more to the team than Mendenhall right now?

Let's look at your comments:

1) Mendy has not proven to be our best RB THIS year from any stand point ( the league is about NOW not the past so forget about 3 years ago those days are gone and have no baring on today ) - Good thing that you aren't Adrian Peterson's coach. He'd ride the pine for fumbles and you'd replace him with Rainey. Mendenhall, after he came back from his injury, fumbled...like every other RB on the roster in Cleveland. He also played a very good game against Philadelphia. Running backs are going to fumble from time to time. Even the great one's do (and no...I am not saying that Mendenhall is great). The entire offense in Cleveland stunk. By your same argument, Woodley, Polamalu, and Hampton should all be on the bench because they have all been outplayed this season by other people on the roster.

2) Rainey is not active in leau of of Mendy , he is active because of Mendy's lack of conviction to his work ethic and his team obligations - How about we stick the entire "Young Money" crew on the bench then for their many mental errors. Is that a lack of conviction to their work ethic? How about Woodley showing up to camp out of shape. Is that a part of a lack of conviction? If you're going to bench one, bench them all. Tomlin is inconsistent in how he disciplines this team. Mendenhall made a mistake in the way he handled himself for the San Diego game, but it sure didn't help things that he was inactivated for 2 games when other players who are underperforming just keep on playing.

3) Rainey is plenty quick and he does make plays , clearly you are not watching the same game the rest of us are in that regard .... - Name them. Besides some nice kickoff returns against the Giants and his two TD's, what has he done? He's not quick like Willie Parker, he is fast, but it takes him a while to get moving. He's put in on 3rd down plays, but what does he offer? What has he done to justify being in there as much as he is. I maintain that Mendenhall, even as a 3rd down back, would offer more.

And get off your high horse with your misconception talk and your "you are not watching the same game as the rest of us" crap. I watch the same games as you do. Rainey is not Darren Sproles. He has offered very little to this team.

Everyone plays a good game against Philadelphia. Their defense is as soft as delicious cream cheese this year. I agree that Mendenhall is the most talented back on the roster overall, but due to injuries he has not been effective this year. Cherry picking the one game against a terrible defense where he was does nothing to strengthen your overall argument.

BlastFurnace
12-17-2012, 02:37 PM
Isn't this the same story as one of the recent post SB seasons? I think it was 2009. The team lost a ton of games it should have won and it was all due to lack of turnovers and other ill-teamed execution/mental mistakes.

Really I haven't seen too much you can put on the coaching staff this year. They have put their players in position to win games and the players have failed to execute. Heck, I figure Lake and Lebeau deserve a medal for cobbling together a solid defense out of what they have had to work with - let alone a intermittently dominating one.

- - - Updated - - -



Everyone plays a good game against Philadelphia. Their defense is as soft as delicious cream cheese this year. I agree that Mendenhall is the most talented back on the roster overall, but due to injuries he has not been effective this year. Cherry picking the one game against a terrible defense where he was does nothing to strengthen your overall argument.

Mendenhall only has gotten two more shots since the Philadelphia game (if you want to count the game where he hurt his achilles). At that time they played, the Eagles were a winning team that had not imploded.

My biggest complaint with the coaching staff is their inconsistency in how they have treated Mendenhall vs. Other
players that make plenty.of mistakes too.

Dwinsgames
12-17-2012, 02:41 PM
Are you seriously saying that Rainey offers more to the team than Mendenhall right now?

Let's look at your comments:

1) Mendy has not proven to be our best RB THIS year from any stand point ( the league is about NOW not the past so forget about 3 years ago those days are gone and have no baring on today ) - Good thing that you aren't Adrian Peterson's coach. He'd ride the pine for fumbles and you'd replace him with Rainey. Mendenhall, after he came back from his injury, fumbled...like every other RB on the roster in Cleveland. He also played a very good game against Philadelphia. Running backs are going to fumble from time to time. Even the great one's do (and no...I am not saying that Mendenhall is great). The entire offense in Cleveland stunk. By your same argument, Woodley, Polamalu, and Hampton should all be on the bench because they have all been outplayed this season by other people on the roster.

2) Rainey is not active in leau of of Mendy , he is active because of Mendy's lack of conviction to his work ethic and his team obligations - How about we stick the entire "Young Money" crew on the bench then for their many mental errors. Is that a lack of conviction to their work ethic? How about Woodley showing up to camp out of shape. Is that a part of a lack of conviction? If you're going to bench one, bench them all. Tomlin is inconsistent in how he disciplines this team. Mendenhall made a mistake in the way he handled himself for the San Diego game, but it sure didn't help things that he was inactivated for 2 games when other players who are underperforming just keep on playing.

3) Rainey is plenty quick and he does make plays , clearly you are not watching the same game the rest of us are in that regard .... - Name them. Besides some nice kickoff returns against the Giants and his two TD's, what has he done? He's not quick like Willie Parker, he is fast, but it takes him a while to get moving. He's put in on 3rd down plays, but what does he offer? What has he done to justify being in there as much as he is. I maintain that Mendenhall, even as a 3rd down back, would offer more.

And get off your high horse with your misconception talk and your "you are not watching the same game as the rest of us" crap. I watch the same games as you do. Rainey is not Darren Sproles. He has offered very little to this team.


1) Rainey has been more productive in limited action than Mendy .. Period lets not muddy the waters by increasing the argument and changing the parties to players on other teams

2) again this is about Mendy and Rainey ... not sure anyone else took it upon themselves to stay home on game day ... off season is off season game day is game day.... lets not cloudy the waters ....

3) I do not need to name them hell he has had 25 carries the entire season ..name the plays Mendy showed any skills at all outside of the Philly game ? IT WAS PHILLY FOR GODS SAKES !!!

High horse ??? I do not think so , I think it is called being rational along with having a basis to what I state , Rainey has out performed Mendy POINT BLANK 4.0 YPC > 3.0 YPC ten times out of ten showing up to do your job vs staying home gets the hat every time on game day again advantage Rainey ... No Rainey is not Sproles , he is not mendy either he is Rainey and the one that had a hat on Sunday .... that hat was granted him for a reason and that reason was performance , attitude and work ethic ...

you do not have to like it , but that is how it is

Craic
12-17-2012, 02:48 PM
He has offered very little to this team.
You make a lot of good points in your post - right up to here. I think he's offered this team a very good option on third down as a RB. he works hard and for his size, plays nice and physical. Remember that at his age, his body hasn't even filled out yet. He'll get some thickness in the chest and if his speed doesn't decrease, I think he'll offer us quite a few years of solid back up RB work.

Count Steeler
12-17-2012, 02:58 PM
I wonder if the players have had a team meeting yet. The lack of Ward and Farrior is really telling now. Nobody has stepped up to be the team leader and that is why we are having problems. There is no peer pressure, nor peer accountability.

It doesn't necessarily have to be the QB. I thought Pouncey would have taken on some of that role, but he is having issues as well. Somebody on this bench has to step up and get his fellow teammates to pull up their socks and play football.

This is the NFL and this is the Pittsburgh Steelers. This uniform means something. Don't you dare keep disgracing the black and gold. It is one thing not to have the talent, but to lack the motivation, the ambition, and the pride to be a winner is not acceptable. Mediocrity and lackadaisical don't live in Pittsburgh. Step up or move out.

BlastFurnace
12-17-2012, 03:17 PM
You make a lot of good points in your post - right up to here. I think he's offered this team a very good option on third down as a RB. he works hard and for his size, plays nice and physical. Remember that at his age, his body hasn't even filled out yet. He'll get some thickness in the chest and if his speed doesn't decrease, I think he'll offer us quite a few years of solid back up RB work.

Good assessment Preach. I just think that Mendenhall would help this team more this year if given the chance.

Dwinsgames
12-17-2012, 07:14 PM
Good assessment Preach. I just think that Mendenhall would help this team more this year if given the chance.


sorry but chances are not given they are earned

BlastFurnace
12-18-2012, 08:19 AM
sorry but chances are not given they are earned

While I agree with your statement, that is not how Tomlin runs this team. My biggest issue with Tomlin is that he is inconsistent in how players are treated.

If you feel that chances are earned and because you made a general statement on that, answer the following:

For this season only:

- What has Troy Polamalu done to earn his job this year? Will Allen is having a better year and the defense has played better this season with him in the lineup.

- What has Lamar Woodley done to earn his job this year? Jason Wordlis has better stats and is having a better year. Besides, Woodley is one of the few players on the Steelers roster that plays an entire game and you barely know he was on the field.

- What has Casey Hampton done to earn his job the past 2 seasons?

They were given their jobs back because of past performance.

Again, you made the statement that I am not watching the same games as you are, please tell me what Rainey has contributed to earn his job over Mendenhall other than his 2 TD's and some nice kickoff returns against the Giants. All three of the players I listed above got their jobs back and kept their jobs, even...in the cases of Woodley and Hampton...regardless of poor performance.

What did Dwyer do to earn his playing time over Rainey before his breakout game against the Bengals? What did Redman do to earn his playing time over Rainey before his breakout game against the Giants. Nothing this year..right? They were given those starting responsibilities because of past performance. Mendenhall has played at a higher level than all four backs on the Steelers roster over the course of his career, but he gets inactivated and then suspended.

You can't tell me that it's only earned during the current year because Tomlin doesn't run this team like that. You know that as well as I do.

If you want to go by fumbles, look no further as to how Tomlin deals with the Young Money Crew. Should Antonio Brown be inactivated and David Gilreath be promoted this week? Brown made more dumb decisions against Dallas (and other times in the year) than Mendenhall made mistakes against Cleveland. How about Wallace and Sanders? Wallace's effort has been questioned since the end of last year and this year. Sanders drops key passes quite often. Should they be inactivated. Why is Mendenhall treated different than the rest of these guys?

If you want to go by stats, look at the situation where Rainey gets his carries. Yes, his YPC is better than Mendenhall this season, but nearly all of Rainey's carries are on 3rd down where the defense is set in pass coverage. Mendenhall's are on first and second down..which is a big difference, so the stats argument is skewed quite a bit. Of course Rainey's YPC will be better if most, if not all, of his carries are on 3rd down.

The argument that Mendenhall hasn't earned his spot on the field is not accurate. As I have shown, we have examples of players getting their starting spots back even though their performance wasn't better than other players playing their same position, there are examples of other players making plenty of mistakes but not suffering the same consequences, and the YPC argument doesn't hold water.

Mendenhall could help this team this year, but isn't on the field. He's clearly better than Rainey, but for some reason is treated differently.

Dwinsgames
12-18-2012, 10:35 AM
unless you or I are physically at all the practices , all the film study and all the meetings there are some things we will never be able to answer , the only things we can answer is what we witness and what we read ....other than that we have little to no choice but to trust that the decisions made on who " gets a hat " are based on what we do not see when all things seem equal or slightly slanted one way or the other ... we do not have a choice in the matter if the Rooney's entrust them we must too they have more invested than either of us ...

I have questions too about why certain players are getting play time while others rot on the bench it is the nature of the beast , Dwyer is a no brainer he performed when given an opportunity , however he has not been performing to my standards of late ... not sure we have a better option at this point ...

you cant lump half a roster into question and expect to get answers either

cold-hard-steel
12-18-2012, 11:23 AM
All i know is we better get it right , and do it fast . Do it fast and do it hard. These boys can get it done ,but it's up to them. My faith in this team has not run dry to this point.

tube517
12-18-2012, 10:02 PM
All i know is we better get it right , and do it fast . Do it fast and do it hard. These boys can get it done ,but it's up to them. My faith in this team has not run dry to this point.


That's what she said.