The Golden Child...Tarnished.

[86WARD]

Antonio Brown...not worthy of a "Number One" job. The drops, the fumbles, failure to judge a punt, mental errors, the interceptions thrown...$8.5M signing bonus worthy, $7M a year worthy? I think not...

But it has to be Wallace's fault in some way or another...lol...right?!?

[Count Steeler]

What is it with athletes that get their payday? Completely getting worse game by game.

Very disappointing.

[steeldawg]

Its a different ball game when you are expected to be the guy, now brown is no longer the 6th round no namer, he is folding under the pressure. A perfect example was the punt he didnt field late in the game, he was afraid to catch it he didnt want the ball.

[katmandu]

Antonio Brown...not worthy of a "Number One" job. The drops, the fumbles, failure to judge a punt, mental errors, the interceptions thrown...$8.5M signing bonus worthy, $7M a year worthy? I think not...

But it has to be Wallace's fault in some way or another...lol...right?!?AB was a REAL BONEHEAD today for sure!

You missed another BIG flounder by AB. When he ran out of bounds and stopped the clock.

[43Hitman]

AB was a REAL BONEHEAD today for sure!

You missed another BIG flounder by AB. When he ran out of bounds and stopped the clock.
Oh we didn't miss it. Its just those last two punt returns or lack there of trump any bone head moves he had earlier. Even though they are perfectly relevant.

[Devilsdancefloor]

i dpont get what is going on with him, but it is not just him sanders whoi hasnt got paid is A FUMBLE MACHINE plax and cothery needs to start the WR are playing like shit

[SteelerEmpire]

Antonio Brown...not worthy of a "Number One" job. The drops, the fumbles, failure to judge a punt, mental errors, the interceptions thrown...$8.5M signing bonus worthy, $7M a year worthy? I think not...

But it has to be Wallace's fault in some way or another...lol...right?!?

Yep. I've said in other topics that all of our WR's are having issues this year... except Miller. He's the only one I have confidence in...

[86WARD]

AB was a REAL BONEHEAD today for sure!

You missed another BIG flounder by AB. When he ran out of bounds and stopped the clock.

I had that under mental errors...lol.

[Edman]

I'm very disappointed in Antonio this year.

And no, just because he's been fucking up doesn't mean Wallace is off the hook either. Everyone have been taking their share of the fuck up bin.

We don't have a #1 Receiver. We just have 3 #2 Guys who can't get the job done. If Brown just holds onto the fucking ball, this outcome is different. Why is it so damn hard for these players to hold onto the damn ball? JUST HOLD ONTO THE FUCKING BALL.

This loss is on you, Brown.

[ALLD]

Use 84 & 17 to run decoy. Throw the ball to Cotchery and Miller all day long.

[steeldawg]

lol now we are in love with cotchery???? wallace didnt have a bad game, why does he get lumped in with brown???

[Edman]

lol now we are in love with cotchery???? wallace didnt have a bad game, why does he get lumped in with brown???

Because Wallace has had his fair share of fuckups himself and isn't consistent. He isn't off the hook because of one good game. If he goes out next week and shits the bed (Which knowing him, he will), this game doesn't even matter.

[Steelreal]

Lets blame the WR's. Yes they made mistakes but so did Ben. Did you see the TWO sacks he took to take us out of FG range? Did you see the grossly underthrown pass to Wallace? Did you see the 3rd and 4 pass that he threw to Dryers Ankles? Did you see the Pick that Lost the game? Yes, AB (He didnt run out of bounds to force Dallas to call a TO), Wallace, Sanders have screwed up all season and I agree with you but come on lets be fair.

[Dwinsgames]

Antonio Brown...not worthy of a "Number One" job. The drops, the fumbles, failure to judge a punt, mental errors, the interceptions thrown...$8.5M signing bonus worthy, $7M a year worthy? I think not...

But it has to be Wallace's fault in some way or another...lol...right?!?


technically speaking it is ....

Remember Wallace was offered that deal and declined before Brown was offered and accepted http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/images/smilies/OA02.gif


by thread title I somehow thought this was going to be about Golden

[stillers4me]

Lets blame the WR's. Yes they made mistakes but so did Ben. Did you see the TWO sacks he took to take us out of FG range? Did you see the grossly underthrown pass to Wallace? Did you see the 3rd and 4 pass that he threw to Dryers Ankles? Did you see the Pick that Lost the game? Yes, AB (He didnt run out of bounds to force Dallas to call a TO), Wallace, Sanders have screwed up all season and I agree with you but come on lets be fair.

I wondered during the game if the underthrown passes had to do with his shoulder. It looked like he went down on it again pretty hard at least once.

[zulater]

You don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Brown had a terrible game. He's had a substandard year. But I'm still glad he's on the team and am confident that he'll put this year behind him and go on and have a great season in 2013.

This is just one of those years.

Too much was taken for granted and this team suffered from an overall lack of focus. The receivers as a whole were one of the major culprits. But I think these all all high character guys and once we can cleanse ourselves of this season, and the number 1 cancer who spread his discontent and lack of focus throughout the unit, we'll see Antonio Brown and Emanuel Sanders will more effecient football players next season.

[Count Steeler]

I wondered during the game if the underthrown passes had to do with his shoulder. It looked like he went down on it again pretty hard at least once.

Despite what they may say, I don't think he is 100%. He definitely struggles with throws to his right.

[Steelreal]

Ben has underthrown passes his entire career. The long ball is not his strongsuit. Never has been. If Ben couldnt make all of the Throws he wouldnt of been out there. Thats precisely why Batch started vs the Ravens.

[Count Steeler]

Ben has underthrown passes his entire career. The long ball is not his strongsuit. Never has been. If Ben couldnt make all of the Throws he wouldnt of been out there. Thats precisely why Batch started vs the Ravens.

Welcome to our forum.

[Steelreal]

Despite what they may say, I don't think he is 100%. He definitely struggles with throws to his right.

I think that is an excuse. They wouldnt start him if he couldnt make all the throws. Oh by the way, that TD to Heath was thrown to his right, on the run and it was an excellent toss.

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Welcome to our forum.

Thank you.

[Count Steeler]

I think that is an excuse. They wouldnt start him if he couldnt make all the throws. Oh by the way, that TD to Heath was thrown to his right, on the run and it was an excellent toss.



No excuse. He is not 100%. Struggles with throws to his right doesn't mean he still can't make some throws to his right. However, I noticed when he threw to his right, he was less accurate and less velocity.

[HollywoodSteel]

You don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Brown had a terrible game. He's had a substandard year. But I'm still glad he's on the team and am confident that he'll put this year behind him and go on and have a great season in 2013.

This is just one of those years.

Too much was taken for granted and this team suffered from an overall lack of focus. The receivers as a whole were one of the major culprits. But I think these all all high character guys and once we can cleanse ourselves of this season, and the number 1 cancer who spread his discontent and lack of focus throughout the unit, we'll see Antonio Brown and Emanuel Sanders will more effecient football players next season.

I don't think that's fair, Zu. We have no reason to believe Wallace spread any discontent through the locker room and he's hardly a cancer. He certainly isn't above criticism for his on field performance, but that's where it ends for me. He is showing me that he's improving with his concentration and hands after last week's first half. He has also taken all the blame for his screw ups and even clarified his comments about losing focus. I think he's a good kid who could easily just get better. I don't think he has yet proven himself to be consistent enough to earn the money the money of a top flight guy, but then again neither has Brown. Despite having a great work ethic and attitude AB stills seems to have a low football IQ and has a couple of big time time fumbles this year. But I'm still glad we ave him, and like you, I expect him to get better.

[Steelreal]

Ben is on the field playing. Injuries are part of the game. NO ONE is 100% This time of year. The standard is the same. Leftwich was injured since quarter one with broken ribs. Played like crap. He wasnt 100% and I didnt use those as an excuse. If he couldnt make throws he should have came out of the game. Same goes for Ben or any Steeler. If Wallace had a bad had like Dez and dropped the game winner would it be ok? In my opinion, heck no. If you are in the game, then you are expected to perform.

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Some great posts on this site. Nice post HollywoodSteel. Although Wallace GROSSLY underachieves.

[43Hitman]

Ben is on the field playing. Injuries are part of the game. NO ONE is 100% This time of year. The standard is the same. Leftwich was injured since quarter one with broken ribs. Played like crap. He wasnt 100% and I didnt use those as an excuse. If he couldnt make throws he should have came out of the game. Same goes for Ben or any Steeler. If Wallace had a bad had like Dez and dropped the game winner would it be ok? In my opinion, heck no. If you are in the game, then you are expected to perform.

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Some great posts on this site. Nice post HollywoodSteel. Although Wallace GROSSLY underachieves.

Welcome to the site. How about going to the Welcome Wagon and introducing yourself formally. We'd love to get to know you better.

[Dwinsgames]

Welcome to the site. How about going to the Welcome Wagon and introducing yourself formally. We'd love to get to know you better.


haha sounds like you want to date them ...

I know that was not the intent but the way its worded made me chuckle ... thanks needed a chuckle about now

[43Hitman]

haha sounds like you want to date them ...

I know that was not the intent but the way its worded made me chuckle ... thanks needed a chuckle about now

lol, it does sound like a pick up line. :doh:

[zulater]

I don't think that's fair, Zu. We have no reason to believe Wallace spread any discontent through the locker room and he's hardly a cancer. He certainly isn't above criticism for his on field performance, but that's where it ends for me. He is showing me that he's improving with his concentration and hands after last week's first half. He has also taken all the blame for his screw ups and even clarified his comments about losing focus. I think he's a good kid who could easily just get better. I don't think he has yet proven himself to be consistent enough to earn the money the money of a top flight guy, but then again neither has Brown. Despite having a great work ethic and attitude AB stills seems to have a low football IQ and has a couple of big time time fumbles this year. But I'm still glad we ave him, and like you, I expect him to get better.

Yeah probably wasn't entirely fair. But neither is this thread. Antonio Brown had a miserable game today. But the OP wants to throw him under the bus because his hero Wallace has been justly criticized all season and he wants payback

Well here's your payback. Antonio Brown will be a Steelers for years to come. Mike Wallace has two games left as a Steeler.

Eat it.

[Steelreal]

Lol you guys are nuts lol

[steelpride12]

You can't just blame AB. Yes he had an awful game no doubt about that and has played poorly recently, but so has the the entire receiver group. Sanders has had a huge fumble against the Ratbirds and still struggles keeping a hand on the ball, Wallace struggles doing much of anything whether it's catching or attempting to play, and now our golden child, Brown, has had the same unfortunate luck. Not sure what the young money crew is up to here, but I hope it turns around soon.

[Steelreal]

Yeah probably wasn't entirely fair. But neither is this thread. Antonio Brown had a miserable game today. But the OP wants to throw him under the bus because his hero Wallace has been justly criticized all season and he wants payback

Well here's your payback. Antonio Brown will be a Steelers for years to come. Mike Wallace has two games left as a Steeler.

Eat it.

WOW lol. I like I like. Nice post

[SteelGhost]

I have to admit AB and MW have dissappointed me, but I hope they can put their shit together and change for the 2013 season... if Wallace remains in Pitts which remains to be seen.

[NJarhead]

Our WR corps (17, 84 & 88) are vastly underachieving this year.

[Pristas]

I just want to point out that Steeldude really made a good point in several threads that has been debated and ignored. He said "Wallace needs to catch the ball with hiss body and has poor fundamentals when trying to simply catch it with his hands."

This game was ours if he didn't bobble that third down pass, and try to bring it in to his gut. He stepped out of bounds and we punted. If he just simply held onto it, we would have sustained that drive for at least a field goal. And that would have been the game clincher.

Yeah, Brown lost that ball. So did Sanders. Ben threw a pick. The defense has no serious pressure. Romo played a hell of a game. Both teams were playing for the playoff wildcard. Dallas just beat us. Plain and simple. I think we could have beaten them if we played the game again.

Here's the real problem. Did anyone watch the 8:20 game? Does anyone here even think we would stand a chance against either one of those teams? We are not equipped for that caliber of competition. There is no 7th lombardi in our future until this team finds its identity and has a leader on both sides of the ball.

[st33lersguy]

Here's the real problem. Did anyone watch the 8:20 game? Does anyone here even think we would stand a chance against either one of those teams? We are not equipped for that caliber of competition. There is no 7th lombardi in our future until this team finds its identity and has a leader on both sides of the ball.

When New England was down 31-3, I said t myself if they played Pittsburgh, they would be up 31-3, and when they were making their comeback I was thinking, that would NOT be Pittsburgh. If this team miraculously made the playoffs, they would be thoroughly embarassed

[Craic]

lol now we are in love with cotchery???? wallace didnt have a bad game, why does he get lumped in with brown???

Wallace had a good game? He was targeted 10 times. He caught 4 balls. 40% catch ratio. THAT'S a good game?

In comparison:



Miller
7 targets
7 receptions
100% catch ratio


Brown
12 targets
8 receptions
66% catch ratio



Doesn't seem like a good game to me at all.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I just want to point out that Steeldude really made a good point in several threads that has been debated and ignored. He said "Wallace needs to catch the ball with hiss body and has poor fundamentals when trying to simply catch it with his hands."

This game was ours if he didn't bobble that third down pass, and try to bring it in to his gut. He stepped out of bounds and we punted. If he just simply held onto it, we would have sustained that drive for at least a field goal. And that would have been the game clincher.

Yeah, Brown lost that ball. So did Sanders. Ben threw a pick. The defense has no serious pressure. Romo played a hell of a game. Both teams were playing for the playoff wildcard. Dallas just beat us. Plain and simple. I think we could have beaten them if we played the game again.

Here's the real problem. Did anyone watch the 8:20 game? Does anyone here even think we would stand a chance against either one of those teams? We are not equipped for that caliber of competition. There is no 7th lombardi in our future until this team finds its identity and has a leader on both sides of the ball.

lol no, dont even try to put that this game on a short FIRST QUARTER catch of all plays. If you thought a bobbled 12 yard catch that never happened is bad, i can only imagine how you feel about brown:
1) fumbling an early punt in our own redzone
2) dropping a very easy routine curl route that killed a scoring drive
3) fumbling another punt and losing it,
4) and running out of bounds late in the game on a 3rd down he couldnt reach to give the cowboys more time to try and drill us in regulation :lol:

[Count Steeler]

Props to Cotchery for the catch of the game. He JUMPED, arms FULLY extended and snared the ball at its highest point and was ready to take a lick. That is a receiver. He needs more playing time.

[zulater]

Props to Cotchery for the catch of the game. He JUMPED, arms FULLY extended and snared the ball at its highest point and was ready to take a lick. That is a receiver. He needs more playing time.

Something Wallace hasn't done since 2009. That's why he's not an elite receiver and shouldn't be paid as such.

When I think of the catches Swann and Stallworth made at the ball's highest point. When I think of Hines Ward, who would sacrifice life and limb to catch a ball over the middle right in front of the the toughest db or linebacker in the league without flinching, and then I think of this self proclaimed "young money crew" I just have to shake my head.

[NJarhead]

I've got it! Wallace, like Sampson, is nothing without his hair. Mike's not been the same since he lost the fo-hawk.


sorry, nothing else I can do besides be frustrated or make jokes

[Steelreal]

I agree Walace is NOT elite. Hands suck, routes suck, doesnt fight for the ball, runs piss poor routes. Ben has got to be frustrated

[zulater]

Question for the board. Because I really didn't bother watching the replay. But I heard that after Ben threw the interception Wallace made absolutley no effort to pursue the play. Can someone verify or dispute that for me please?

[steeldawg]

Wallace had a good game? He was targeted 10 times. He caught 4 balls. 40% catch ratio. THAT'S a good game?

In comparison:



Miller
7 targets
7 receptions
100% catch ratio


Brown
12 targets
8 receptions
66% catch ratio



Doesn't seem like a good game to me at all.

ya ten targets 4 catches, first drive two passes batted down, one pass intercepted, on was short hopped, one deep ball thrown not even close and one he didnt get his feet down. Wallace cannot do anything about poor throws, that is absolutely ridiculous. had 95 yards and you might as well credit him with a td, and you can say whatever you like that was huge catch in that game.

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Question for the board. Because I really didn't bother watching the replay. But I heard that after Ben threw the interception Wallace made absolutley no effort to pursue the play. Can someone verify or dispute that for me please? he stopped because i think he though carr was down because it was a diving interception but then he chased him all the way down the field

[Steelreal]

Question for the board. Because I really didn't bother watching the replay. But I heard that after Ben threw the interception Wallace made absolutley no effort to pursue the play. Can someone verify or dispute that for me please?

Thats hyperbole. Wallace ran after him (Not a great effort mind you) he got blocked by a Lb or two. No Wallace fan but he shouldnt have been put in a position to make a tackle. The ball shouldnt have even been thrown to him. He had bracket coverage and was not open. Bad decison by Ben.

Here is the play

http://www.nfl.com/scores

[zulater]

Thats hyperbole. Wallace ran after him (Not a great effort mind you) he got blocked by a Lb or two. No Wallace fan but he shouldnt have been put in a position to make a tackle. The ball shouldnt have even been thrown to him. He had bracket coverage and was not open. Bad decison by Ben.

Here is the play

http://www.nfl.com/scores

What excuse is there for not making full effort there?

It doesn't matter if the ball should or shouldn't have been thrown, or whether it was thrown poorly, or whether it was a good play call or not at that point. The game's on the line, every Steelers on the field should have made every effort to cause a fumble or make the tackle before field goal range was achieved.

[steeldawg]

What excuse is there for not making full effort there?

It doesn't matter if the ball should or shouldn't have been thrown, or whether it was thrown poorly, or whether it was a good play call or not at that point. The game's on the line, every Steelers on the field should have made every effort to cause a fumble or make the tackle before field goal range was achieved.

he did he was getting blocked plus they picked it at the 36 which is in baileys range already.

[Dwinsgames]

Question for the board. Because I really didn't bother watching the replay. But I heard that after Ben threw the interception Wallace made absolutley no effort to pursue the play. Can someone verify or dispute that for me please?


Verified

[zulater]

he did he was getting blocked plus they picked it at the 36 which is in baileys range already.

Yeah, no difference between a 40+ yarder and what essentially is an extra point with the game on the line. :sarcasm:

[Dwinsgames]

he made very little effort ... maybe someone can find a clip of that play about ... Wallace was the closest one to make a tackle but was not the one who made the tackle ........ he was watching it happen a little traffic but a bystander non the less

[steeldawg]

Yeah, no difference between a 40+ yarder and what essentially is an extra point with the game on the line. :sarcasm:

Of course theres a difference but you said someone tackle him before field goal range but they were in field goal range when he caught it.

[Steelreal]

I'll use you guy's analogy against you. So Andre Hastings should have ran down Larry Brown in SB 30 and since he didnt then hes the goat and not Neil O'donnell. Really????

[Dwinsgames]

I'll use you guy's analogy against you. So Andre Hastings should have ran down Larry Brown in SB 30 and since he didnt then hes the goat and not Neil O'donnell. Really????


the major difference is Ben would not have been in that situation at all had A.B done his job , hence A.B. is the goat

[zulater]

Of course theres a difference but you said someone tackle him before field goal range but they were in field goal range when he caught it.

There's a difference between field goal range and chip shot field goal range.

[Steelreal]

Neither would Neil O'donnell if the Oline had done theirs.

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If Leftwich or Batch had thrown that pass everyone would be telling the truth. "It was a bad pass and poor decision"

[zulater]

I'll use you guy's analogy against you. So Andre Hastings should have ran down Larry Brown in SB 30 and since he didnt then hes the goat and not Neil O'donnell. Really????

I said Ben was one of the primary goats' in the OP of the goat thread. So what's your point?

If Wallace half hearted his attempt to chase down the play shame on him though.

If you remember Harrison's pick 6 in SB XLIII Larry Fitgerald came from the other side of the field in an effort to stop James from getting the TD. and damn near succeeded.

[Dwinsgames]

Neither would Neil O'donnell if the Oline had done theirs.

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If Leftwich or Batch had thrown that pass everyone would be telling the truth. "It was a bad pass and poor decision"


it was not a great pass , however it was not a great effort either ..... 2 wrongs do not make a right , and the effort there after was even poorer IMO

[Steelreal]

It was a horrible decison, period. Wallace wasnt even open. Do you know what bracket coverage is? The Cowboys know Ben's tendency to force the ball to Wallace late (See SB vs Packers) so they put bracket coverage on him. They had a Lb taking away the inside and Carr (CB) taking away the outside, this is bracket coverage. No way the pass should go there and to throw it late is even worse. Wallace has made PLENTY of mistakes and I rip him plenty. But to turn the focus from a poor pass to a poor effort is deflecting blame. See Flacco Pick 6 vs Denver. Who tried harder Wallace or Boldin? I rest my case.

[steeldawg]

wow a horrible effort really?? This wallace thing is out of control, the ball was so far behind him that him jumping and reaching back with his arm extended was not even going to get his hand on the ball. Watch the play in regular speed watch how fast carr is up and running with the ball, there is no freakin way we were getting him down where he caught it.

[LLT]

It was a horrible decison, period. Wallace wasnt even open. Do you know what bracket coverage is?

Youre right about him not being open...but that was most defintely NOT bracket coverage. There are only two types of bracket coverages..."up and over" and "in and out". Both can be used in a man or a zone defense.

Carr was playing just off of Wallace and made the break on the pass... but there wasnt another defender low, and there certainly wasnt any defenders playing in and out on Wallace. The closest defender other than Carr was LBer Alex Albright, and he was playing the left/middle of the field until Ben threw the ball.

Zone coverage...but not bracket

[LLT]

wow a horrible effort really?? This wallace thing is out of control, the ball was so far behind him that him jumping and reaching back with his arm extended was not even going to get his hand on the ball. Watch the play in regular speed watch how fast carr is up and running with the ball, there is no freakin way we were getting him down where he caught it.

Agree that the ball was badly thrown....but regardless of who the reciever is, there is no excuse for not reaching down and putting your hand on the defender while he is on the ground. Regardless how any of us feel about Wallace...there is NO DOUBT that he hesitated after the interception. That was a brain fart that put the cowboys on the one yard line.

[Steeldude]

Antonio Brown...not worthy of a "Number One" job. The drops, the fumbles, failure to judge a punt, mental errors, the interceptions thrown...$8.5M signing bonus worthy, $7M a year worthy? I think not...

But it has to be Wallace's fault in some way or another...lol...right?!?

But Brown at least tries, unlike Wallace. You want to give $10,000,000 to a player who deliberately does not try.

[zulater]

Agree that the ball was badly thrown....but regardless of who the reciever is, there is no excuse for not reaching down and putting your hand on the defender while he is on the ground. Regardless how any of us feel about Wallace...there is NO DOUBT that he hesitated after the interception. That was a brain fart that put the cowboys on the one yard line.

Funny the same people defending Wallace's lack of hustle and wherewithal on this play destroyed Anonio Brown ( rightfully so) for not falling on, or kicking out of bounds what should have been ruled an incomplete pass in the endzone last week.

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wow a horrible effort really?? This wallace thing is out of control, the ball was so far behind him that him jumping and reaching back with his arm extended was not even going to get his hand on the ball. Watch the play in regular speed watch how fast carr is up and running with the ball, there is no freakin way we were getting him down where he caught it.

You still get up and pursue the play with everything you've got. A teammate quite likely could alter his course and give you the opportunity to close the gap, particularly if you have world class speed.

[LLT]

Funny the same people defending Wallace's lack of hustle and wherewithal on this play destroyed Anonio Brown ( rightfully so) for not falling on, or kicking out of bounds what should have been ruled an incomplete pass in the endzone last week.


...And reaching down to touch a defender is infintely easier than recovering a fumble.

[NJarhead]

What excuse is there for not making full effort there?

It doesn't matter if the ball should or shouldn't have been thrown, or whether it was thrown poorly, or whether it was a good play call or not at that point. The game's on the line, every Steelers on the field should have made every effort to cause a fumble or make the tackle before field goal range was achieved.


You're right Zu. He could have had the presence of mind to go after him while he was still on the ground but stood there stunned.

[86WARD]

Yeah probably wasn't entirely fair. But neither is this thread. Antonio Brown had a miserable game today. But the OP wants to throw him under the bus because his hero Wallace has been justly criticized all season and he wants payback

Well here's your payback. Antonio Brown will be a Steelers for years to come. Mike Wallace has two games left as a Steeler.

Eat it.

You couldn't be more wrong. I'm a HUGE Brown fan. Now that Ward is gone, probably my second favorite player behind Miller.

I've been a big Wallace basher...go check the threads...I just didn't do it to the extent / nitpicking that some people like to because they are still butt hurt about his holdout. But that's for another thread.

No reason a receiver playing the way Brown has the last few weeks doesn't deserve the same type of thread. The same type of criticism. But then again, he signed a contract, no questions asked.

Stopping being bitchy...and face the fact that Brown has been just as bad as Wallace lately...I love that the point is pretty much proven with this turning into a hate Wallace thread.

Try to stay on topic.

[86WARD]

But Brown at least tries, unlike Wallace. You want to give $10,000,000 to a player who deliberately does not try.

Who said that I want to pay Wallace $10M?!? Lolololol...

[Steelreal]

You couldn't be more wrong. I'm a HUGE Brown fan. Now that Ward is gone, probably my second favorite player behind Miller.

I've been a big Wallace basher...go check the threads...I just didn't do it to the extent / nitpicking that some people like to because they are still butt hurt about his holdout. But that's for another thread.

No reason a receiver playing the way Brown has the last few weeks doesn't deserve the same type of thread. The same type of criticism. But then again, he signed a contract, no questions asked.

Stopping being bitchy...and face the fact that Brown has been just as bad as Wallace lately...I love that the point is pretty much proven with this turning into a hate Wallace thread.

Try to stay on topic.

Nice post bro and very accurate. A lot of people play favorites and are not objective. They blame Wallace for Ben's bad pass. Or they blame Wallace and give Brown a pass. If you are objective you blame them all equally

[Psycho Ward 86]

Funny the same people defending Wallace's lack of hustle and wherewithal on this play destroyed Anonio Brown ( rightfully so) for not falling on, or kicking out of bounds what should have been ruled an incomplete pass in the endzone last week.

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funny that goes both ways. Even funnier that sometimes people are simply fairly pointing out what both receivers do wrong.

[43Hitman]

Nice post bro and very accurate. A lot of people play favorites and are not objective. They blame Wallace for Ben's bad pass. Or they blame Wallace and give Brown a pass. If you are objective you blame them all equally

Who on this board has said that?

[steeldawg]

thats crazy watch that play in regular speed, there is no way wallace could of touched him down.

[steeldawg]

brown made huge errors in this game, muffing a punt, fumbling a punt, not fielding a punt, and running out of bounds. What exactly am i supposed to say about him, has wallace been great this year, no but people saying they are having the same season are crazy. This is a down year for wallacebut even in a down year his numbers are good, and if brown had the same numbers as wallace people would be talking about what a great season brown is having.

[86WARD]

So Wallace has better stats at little to lazy to no effort and being paid $3M a season compared to Brown and his hustling effort being paid $7M a season? That's preposterous!

This is a Brown only thread!!!

[Psycho Ward 86]

Nice post bro and very accurate. A lot of people play favorites and are not objective. They blame Wallace for Ben's bad pass. Or they blame Wallace and give Brown a pass. If you are objective you blame them all equally

but but but Wallace shouldve knocked the ball out of Carr's hands even though he was running full speed on his out route :rolleyes:

Seriously though, qft. That post tells you almost all you need to know about most people's attitude on this board.

[Steelreal]

Who on this board has said that?

MOST are blaming Wallace for a lack of effort. Why does he get more blame than the passer? Its like blaming the wr over Neil O'donnell. Ludicrous

[Steelreal]

brown made huge errors in this game, muffing a punt, fumbling a punt, not fielding a punt, and running out of bounds. What exactly am i supposed to say about him, has wallace been great this year, no but people saying they are having the same season are crazy. This is a down year for wallacebut even in a down year his numbers are good, and if brown had the same numbers as wallace people would be talking about what a great season brown is having.

Most Excellent post sir

[43Hitman]

MOST are blaming Wallace for a lack of effort. Why does he get more blame than the passer? Its like blaming the wr over Neil O'donnell. Ludicrous
Quote them then. Because I read every post on this board, and believe me, if someone was blaming Wallace for Ben's errant pass, I would have read it and called them out on it. Just like I'm calling you out to post said quotes, otherwise all you're doing is throwing out red herrings.

Also, what you said is "they are blaming Wallace for Ben's bad pass." And now you're trying to move the goal posts by changing the words "Ben's bad pass" for lack of effort. So which is it?

[Steelreal]

WHERE did I say they were blaming Wallace for Ben's errant pass? This is what I posted "MOST are blaming Wallace for a lack of effort. Why does he get more blame than the passer? Its like blaming the wr over Neil O'donnell. Ludicrous"

That is nothing like what you posted. Read this whole thread and tally who is getting more blame Ben or Wallace. I'll wait

- - - Updated - - -

Me and psycho ward were being sarcastic. Sorry you couldnt tell. Sigh

[43Hitman]

Nice post bro and very accurate. A lot of people play favorites and are not objective. They blame Wallace for Ben's bad pass. Or they blame Wallace and give Brown a pass. If you are objective you blame them all equally

Bold type. :coffee:

[Steelreal]

WHERE did I say they were blaming Wallace for Ben's errant pass? This is what I posted "MOST are blaming Wallace for a lack of effort. Why does he get more blame than the passer? Its like blaming the wr over Neil O'donnell. Ludicrous"

That is nothing like what you posted. Read this whole thread and tally who is getting more blame Ben or Wallace. I'll wait

- - - Updated - - -

Me and psycho ward were being sarcastic. Sorry you couldnt tell. Sigh
You then asked "who said that" and I stopped being sarcastic and told you EXACTLY what I meant.

[43Hitman]

WHERE did I say they were blaming Wallace for Ben's errant pass? This is what I posted "MOST are blaming Wallace for a lack of effort. Why does he get more blame than the passer? Its like blaming the wr over Neil O'donnell. Ludicrous"

That is nothing like what you posted. Read this whole thread and tally who is getting more blame Ben or Wallace. I'll wait

- - - Updated - - -

Me and psycho ward were being sarcastic. Sorry you couldnt tell. Sigh

As if we are supposed to read your sarcasm when you had a full on frontal assault on Ben since you've joined this board. How else am I or anyone else supposed to take that.

[Steelreal]

Bold type. :coffee:

Again, statment was sarcasm just like the rest of my post ( you know the part that you ddint put in bold?) The rest of my post was just like the part you put in bold. FICTICIOUS SARCASM. OK?

[43Hitman]

You then asked "who said that" and I stopped being sarcastic and told you EXACTLY what I meant.

into the looney bin you go.

[steeldawg]

But Brown at least tries, unlike Wallace. You want to give $10,000,000 to a player who deliberately does not try.

Hey maybe we can still get participation trophies for "trying". You get 7 million dollars a year trying is not good enough we need production, Also are you making the arguement that wallace can put up 63 catches 823yds and 8 tds with 2 games to go without trying, give me a break.

[Steelreal]

As if we are supposed to read your sarcasm when you had a full on frontal assault on Ben since you've joined this board. How else am I or anyone else supposed to take that.

Oh, I get it. You are MAD because of what I say about Ben. I get it now. Sigh. I told you FULLY what I meant in my next post upon request. Didnt know why the confusion. Now I get it. I dont assault Ben. I give my opionion about him. If you disagree then fine. I'm cool with you disagreeing with me. Dont know why you're not cool with me disagreeing with you. Ben is a good quarterback. You dont agree? I'm fine with that.

[Count Steeler]

You know what, this whole team needs a serious ass whopping. Some more than others, but, sheesh, you are professional athletes playing for THE premiere sports franchise and you have trouble getting motivated? Man, do you know how blessed you are to be wearing the black and gold?

ALL of our WRs (Young Money Crew) are having bad years. All for diverse reasons, but nonetheless, they are playing sub par.

Ben has to go back to being Ben before the injury. In control, smart plays, smart decisions. Since his return, he is just trying to do too much.

[Steelreal]

You know what, this whole team needs a serious ass whopping. Some more than others, but, sheesh, you are professional athletes playing for THE premiere sports franchise and you have trouble getting motivated? Man, do you know how blessed you are to be wearing the black and gold?

ALL of our WRs (Young Money Crew) are having bad years. All for diverse reasons, but nonetheless, they are playing sub par.

Ben has to go back to being Ben before the injury. In control, smart plays, smart decisions. Since his return, he is just trying to do too much.

And that's all I have been saying. I agree with you. I hope you dont get called a Ben hater too.

[Count Steeler]

And that's all I have been saying. I agree with you. I hope you dont get called a Ben hater too.

We all get along here because we love the Steelers. We can nitpick and point out flaws in our guys, but they are our guys. I don't get the "haters" label at times. What is wrong with pointing out what we may be seeing on the field. I am still of the opinion that Ben is not 100% and has decided to go rogue on Haley these last 2 games.

You know, as I am writing this post, this thought came to me. Perhaps Ben is bitter that, despite the promises to the contrary he still got injured this year, and quite severely. Maybe he is now thinking, "Damn this dink and dunk. It nearly got me killed anyway, so I am going to play the way I like"

Just a thought.

[fansince'76]

You know, as I am writing this post, this thought came to me. Perhaps Ben is bitter that, despite the promises to the contrary he still got injured this year, and quite severely. Maybe he is now thinking, "Damn this dink and dunk. It nearly got me killed anyway, so I am going to play the way I like"

Just a thought.

Never thought about it that way, but there may be an element of truth to it.

[Seven]

Every receiver on this squad has played poorly this year. If I had to pick one to keep, it would still be Brown, as Sanders and Wallace couldn't get any seperation without him when he was injured. But all three guys need to start playing better. It's inexcusible for Wallace not to finish his routes and it's just as inexcusible for all three of them not to be able to hold onto the football.

[LLT]

So Wallace has better stats at little to lazy to no effort and being paid $3M a season compared to Brown and his hustling effort being paid $7M a season? That's preposterous!

This is a Brown only thread!!!

I am in the camp that both Wallace and Brown have played badly as of late,

BUT.... The very nature of the title...calling him "Golden Child" brings up the topic of how he is treated comparitively to others.

[LLT]

thats crazy watch that play in regular speed, there is no way wallace could of touched him down.

As Ive said...I have watched that play over and over again...I agree that the ball was badly thrown. But there is no doubt....NO DOUBT..... that Wallace hesitated while Carr was on the ground.

[Steelreal]

We all get along here because we love the Steelers. We can nitpick and point out flaws in our guys, but they are our guys. I don't get the "haters" label at times. What is wrong with pointing out what we may be seeing on the field. I am still of the opinion that Ben is not 100% and has decided to go rogue on Haley these last 2 games.

You know, as I am writing this post, this thought came to me. Perhaps Ben is bitter that, despite the promises to the contrary he still got injured this year, and quite severely. Maybe he is now thinking, "Damn this dink and dunk. It nearly got me killed anyway, so I am going to play the way I like"

Just a thought.

Dink and dunk doesnt get you killed. It keeps your jersey clean. Ben reverted back to Old Ben and thats how he got hurt. Look at the play again and see if Ben didnt have time to throw that ball away. If he hits Heath he likely doesnt get hurt. New Ben didnt get him hurt Old Ben did.


http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012111200/2012/REG10/chiefs@steelers#menu=highlights%7CcontentId%3A0ap2 000000094275&tab=analyze

[Seven]

Dink and dunk doesnt get you killed. It keeps your jersey clean. Ben reverted back to Old Ben and thats how he got hurt. Look at the play again and see if Ben didnt have time to throw that ball away. If he hits Heath he likely doesnt get hurt. New Ben didnt get him hurt Old Ben did.


http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012111200/2012/REG10/chiefs@steelers#menu=highlights%7CcontentId%3A0ap2 000000094275&tab=analyze

There are plenty of times Ben "should" have thrown the ball away over the years and didn't only to make a game-changing play. Just because the offense has changed doesn't mean he should. Haley's system was supposed to keep him off the ground by expediating Ben's decision making process due to a quicker style of passing game. It's worked sometimes, other times it has not. Wallace, Sanders and Brown have proven they cannot get the necessary seperation consistently enough in the quick passing routes which effectively destroys the fundamentals of Haley's entire offense. Until that changes, we need "old Ben".

[steeldawg]

As Ive said...I have watched that play over and over again...I agree that the ball was badly thrown. But there is no doubt....NO DOUBT..... that Wallace hesitated while Carr was on the ground.

ya he hesitated but i did it frame by frame carr caught the ball and was up with it in 1 second wallace's momentum took him to the 40 and out of bounds carr was on the 36, there is no way wallace stops his momentum realizes carr made the diving catch, run back in bounds, cover 4 yards and touch carr down in 1 second its not possible.

[43Hitman]

And that's all I have been saying. I agree with you. I hope you dont get called a Ben hater too.

No one called you a hater. :coffee:

[LLT]

ya he hesitated but i did it frame by frame carr caught the ball and was up with it in 1 second wallace's momentum took him to the 40 and out of bounds carr was on the 36, there is no way wallace stops his momentum realizes carr made the diving catch, run back in bounds, cover 4 yards and touch carr down in 1 second its not possible.

Wallace hesitating is what we are talking about. Whether or not YOU think he could have covered the distance is irrelevent...because it became a mute point when Wallace failed to react.

Or is your argument that ....Wallace didnt think he could cover the distance so he just didnt give 100 percent?


And for the record....I would argue that an athlete who runs a 4.17 forty CAN cover 12 feet before a cornerback....laying down...can get up and run with the ball.

[zulater]

No one called you a hater. :coffee:

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4615591734280444&pid=15.1

I was thinking more along these lines.

:chuckle: :wink02:

[GBMelBlount]

I wondered during the game if the underthrown passes had to do with his shoulder. It looked like he went down on it again pretty hard at least once.

Yep, good thing we rushed him back for these last two hyper critical games (after Charlie won).

Just like last year. lol.

[43Hitman]

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4615591734280444&pid=15.1

I was thinking more along these lines.

:chuckle: :wink02:

:chuckle:

[zulater]

Wallace hesitating is what we are talking about. Whether or not YOU think he could have covered the distance is irrelevent...because it became a mute point when Wallace failed to react.

Or is your argument that ....Wallace didnt think he could cover the distance so he just didnt give 100 percent?

The thing is he's supposedly the fastest guy on the field. There's 10 other Steelers out there, so Carr isn't exactly neccessarily going to be able to beeline to the end zone. So there's a good chance if you hustle you'll be able to run yourself back into the play because the interceptor is occupied with avoiding your teammates. And if nothing else see if you can get yourself in position to swipe the damn ball! Or how about this, maybe one of your teammates causes a fumble and you can be the guy to recover it? . Put yourself in position to make a play and maybe you will?

The bottom line there's no excuse to not react and not fully hustle to try to make some kind of play.

[Wallace108]

Even with their top three cornerbacks — Ike Taylor, Keenan Lewis and Cortez Allen — injured and out, the Steelers forced a Cowboys punt. But Brown declined to field a bouncing ball, letting it roll 17 yards longer than it should have.

“After the fumble, I got a little lax back there,” Brown said.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3144652-74/steelers-cowboys-yard#axzz2FTZMYngS

Hmmm, what if Wallace had said this?

[Count Steeler]

Hmmm, what if Wallace had said this?

Didn't see that Wallace108.

There is something deeper at work with this team.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Hmmm, what if Wallace had said this?

zu would poop his pants and start a new thread to make sure everyone sees it

[zulater]

zu would poop his pants and start a new thread to make sure everyone sees it

:upyours:

[zulater]

Hmmm, what if Wallace had said this?

So why don't we cut Brown then?

No reason to distinguish between chronic offenders and occasionall screwups. No reason to take into account Brown's reputation of being the first and last off the practice field every day, and compare that to a guy who waited until the last possible moment to sign his tender so he wouldn't have to participate in any preseason games.

Yep one and the same. :wtf:

[86WARD]

So why don't we cut Brown then?

No reason to distinguish between chronic offenders and occasionall screwups. No reason to take into account Brown's reputation of being the first and last off the practice field every day, and compare that to a guy who waited until the last possible moment to sign his tender so he wouldn't have to participate in any preseason games.

Yep one and the same. :wtf:

And therein lies the "answer." I knew it would eventually come out...

[zulater]

And therein lies the "answer." I knew it would eventually come out...

Why shouldn't work ethic be relevant to how we view mistakes?

[Psycho Ward 86]

you guys are seriously putting that interception on wallace? What was he supposed to do, run that out route even faster? That would be out of bounds folks. If he ran SLOWER on the other hand is the only reason he would have a chance at knocking that ball down from Carr.

Lol one contradiction after another.

Not wallace's fault Ben threw a game losing pick to the team ranked dead last in interceptions.

[43Hitman]

you guys are seriously putting that interception on wallace? What was he supposed to do, run that out route even faster? That would be out of bounds folks. If he ran SLOWER on the other hand is the only reason he would have a chance at knocking that ball down from Carr.

Lol one contradiction after another.

Not wallace's fault Ben threw a game losing pick to the team ranked dead last in interceptions.

Damn, I thought we were dead last in interceptions.

[Count Steeler]

Not wallace's fault Ben threw a game losing pick to the team ranked dead last in interceptions.

Even worse than us? Wow.

[zulater]

you guys are seriously putting that interception on wallace? What was he supposed to do, run that out route even faster? That would be out of bounds folks. If he ran SLOWER on the other hand is the only reason he would have a chance at knocking that ball down from Carr.

Lol one contradiction after another.

Not wallace's fault Ben threw a game losing pick to the team ranked dead last in interceptions.



There's really not much if any suggestion that the interception wasn't entirely on Ben.

What's being questioned is whether Wallace made much effort or showed proper awareness in trying to stop Carr from advancing as far as he did after the interception was made.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Why shouldn't work ethic be relevant to how we view mistakes?

because trying really hard in this league isnt enough. you have to perform. wallace is trending up at the right time. brown is trending down at the wrong time. Its not ok to be trending down when you're your team's highest paid receiver and the #1. Even if you work hard.

hopefully they can both play well in the same games from here on out because thats probably the only way were going to down the bengals. brown looked pretty quick making hard cuts in his routes against the cowboys though so thats looking pretty good.

- - - Updated - - -

Forgot to add, the cowboys were dead last in interceptions by their cornerbacks at the time. Not as a whole, my bad.

Also, a fun little nugget for everyone. Guess who's tied for the team lead in interceptions? The cardinals and chiefs :lol:

[86WARD]

because a hold out is an actual indication of a players work ethic. If that's how you want to spin your "thoughts/feelings," that's cool...

[zulater]

because a hold out is an actual indication of a players work ethic.

No but being the first one on the practice field and the last one off is.

[86WARD]

and you're at every practice to know that...I seem to recall reading reports in the past how good Wallace's work ethic is. But that probably isn't the case anymore. Probably last one on and first one off...

[zulater]

and you're at every practice to know that...

No But it's common knowledge for those that are. Don't believe me? Most of the Pgh beat writers have twitter accounts. Ask any one of them. Call Tunch and Wolfe on the radio. It's been reported numersous times, and his work ethic was cited amongst the reasons he was voted team MVP last season.

- - - Updated - - -

Antonio Brown was named by many if not most here and elsewhere as the primary goat in last weeks loss to the Cowboys.


So why the need to take out an additional pound of flesh on a guy who by all accounts took this last loss to heart, accepted full blame, and feels about as bad as player can in such circumstances?

[86WARD]

No one is really questioning Brown's work ethic per say. I've read all the same reports, I've heard all the same stories. But you don't know that for a fact that he's the first on the field, last off everyday and you assume that because Wallace held out, his work ethic is poor.

[Psycho Ward 86]

No But it's common knowledge for those that are. Don't believe me? Most of the Pgh beat writers have twitter accounts. Ask any one of them. Call Tunch and Wolfe on the radio. It's been reported numersous times, and his work ethic was cited amongst the reasons he was voted team MVP last season.

- - - Updated - - -

Antonio Brown was named by many if not most here and elsewhere as the primary goat in last weeks loss to the Cowboys.


So why the need to take out an additional pound of flesh on a guy who by all accounts took this last loss to heart, accepted full blame, and feels about as bad as player can in such circumstances?

because when wallace accepts full blame for his mistakes (which he publicly has several times), theres a sudden urge to tear him down. Even though, as previously stated, wallace has been reported to have strong work ethic as well. Its just people's perception about players that baffles some of us. When ward held out a lot of people supported him because he's a hometown hero. Which makes sense, but is also weird when you think about it: ward essentially "earned" a holdout by that point in his career. Earned a holdout. Double standards get to be headscratching sometimes.

[zulater]

No one is really questioning Brown's work ethic per say. I've read all the same reports, I've heard all the same stories. But you don't know that for a fact that he's the first on the field, last off everyday and you assume that because Wallace held out, his work ethic is poor.

No I don't assume Wallace's work ethic is poor because he held out.

But I question his commitment to his craft and this team over it.

Give you a good example. Hines Ward held out once upon a time. It was business decision like all holdouts are. But it killed him, and he couldn't wait to get back on the practice field once he determined that he gained as much as he could from the holdout.

Wallace on the other hand came to grips with the fact that he was going to play out this season for the 2.7 million tender long before the pre season was out. Yet he continued his hold out to make certain that he wouldn't have to participate in any pre season games. This depite the fact he knew a new offense was being intstalled.

I'll put it to you 86Ward. Is there any way in hell that Hines Ward would have conspired to be away from his team and teammates once the business aspect was decided?

[Psycho Ward 86]

No one is really questioning Brown's work ethic per say. I've read all the same reports, I've heard all the same stories. But you don't know that for a fact that he's the first on the field, last off everyday and you assume that because Wallace held out, his work ethic is poor.

cant blame any NFL fan as of late for questioning the work ethic and loyalty of marquee players that hold out. revis, chris johnson, desean jackson, seem to have given everyone who holds out a bad name

[Psycho Ward 86]

No I don't assume Wallace's work ethic is poor because he held out.

But I question his commitment to his craft and this team over it.

Give you a good example. Hines Ward held out once upon a time. It was business decision like all holdouts are. But it killed him, and he couldn't wait to get back on the practice field once he determined that he gained as much as he could from the holdout.

Wallace on the other hand came to grips with the fact that he was going to play out this season for the 2.7 million tender long before the pre season was out. Yet he continued his hold out to make certain that he wouldn't have to participate in any pre season games. This depite the fact he knew a new offense was being intstalled.

I'll put it to you 86Ward. Is there any way in hell that Hines Ward would have conspired to be away from his team and teammates once the business aspect was decided?

commitment to your craft is the exact same thing as work ethic. Just in different wording. How do you know wallace's holdout did or didnt kill him like it did for hines ward? Thats just an assumption you're making. And there was just a slight difference in their situations: ward got a deal, wallace didnt.

[86WARD]

No I don't assume Wallace's work ethic is poor because he held out.

But I question his commitment to his craft and this team over it.

Give you a good example. Hines Ward held out once upon a time. It was business decision like all holdouts are. But it killed him, and he couldn't wait to get back on the practice field once he determined that he gained as much as he could from the holdout.

Wallace on the other hand came to grips with the fact that he was going to play out this season for the 2.7 million tender long before the pre season was out. Yet he continued his hold out to make certain that he wouldn't have to participate in any pre season games. This depite the fact he knew a new offense was being intstalled.

I'll put it to you 86Ward. Is there any way in hell that Hines Ward would have conspired to be away from his team and teammates once the business aspect was decided?

You're just assuming all of this. You have no idea how Wallace felt during the holdout. And according to reports, contract negotiations were still going on September 1st. Wallace ended his holdout on August 28th...no? So he really didn't come to grips that he would play the season at $2.7M. You're making that assumption.

A lot of receivers have held out in the past and with the exception of Jerry Rice and Hines Ward, had shitty seasons after the holdout. Doesn't however mean they had a poor "commitment to their craft" or a poor work ethic. That also carries over to running backs, with the exception of Emmitt Smith. It's a well known fact that this is the result in most cases and you can go back and search the threads...I've said in the past during the holdout that Wallace wouldn't be close to what he was...

[zulater]

commitment to your craft is the exact same thing as work ethic. Just in different wording. How do you know wallace's holdout did or didnt kill him like it did for hines ward? Thats just an assumption you're making. And there was just a slight difference in their situations: ward got a deal, wallace didnt.

Are you serious? :lol: Wallace turned down the Steelers best offer in early August and basically closed down further negotiations. So he knew what he was going to play for. But he made sure he didn't sign his tender sheet until the day after by NFL rules he would be ineligible to play in the last pre season game.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/mike_wallace_wont_sign_tender_until_he_has_to/10617052

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/18763052/report-mike-wallace-wont-sign-free-agent-tender-until-he-has-to

http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2012/08/25/nfl-rumors-mike-wallce-reporting-to-the-pittsburgh-steelers/

[zulater]

You're just assuming all of this. You have no idea how Wallace felt during the holdout. And according to reports, contract negotiations were still going on September 1st. Wallace ended his holdout on August 28th...no? So he really didn't come to grips that he would play the season at $2.7M. You're making that assumption.

A lot of receivers have held out in the past and with the exception of Jerry Rice and Hines Ward, had shitty seasons after the holdout. Doesn't however mean they had a poor "commitment to their craft" or a poor work ethic. That also carries over to running backs, with the exception of Emmitt Smith. It's a well known fact that this is the result in most cases and you can go back and search the threads...I've said in the past during the holdout that Wallace wouldn't be close to what he was...

Did Ward even miss a pre season game when he held out?

[86WARD]

And what does that have to do with Wallace's work ethic and your assumptions? But for the record, yes, Ward missed the Eagles game.

Anyway, I'm fine with your original comments:


No reason to take into account Brown's reputation of being the first and last off the practice field every day, and compare that to a guy who waited until the last possible moment to sign his tender so he wouldn't have to participate in any preseason games.

Yep one and the same. :wtf:

It confirms a lot.

[zulater]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/53492/video-wallace-probably-wont-report-monday

Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger expected wide receiver Mike Wallace to show up for the start of training camp. That didn't happen.

There was a recent report that Wallace would end his holdout over this past weekend. And that didn't happen, either.



The earliest you should expect Wallace to return to Pittsburgh is Tuesday. Why? It's all about ensuring he doesn't play in Thursday's preseason finale. ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter explains in the video.


This confirms more. :coffee:

[LLT]

Hmmm, what if Wallace had said this?

We all watch the games...and we all KNOW Brown was Lax on that play....Good for Brown to admit it. That at least shows some sort of self-check on what he expects out of himself.

I think it would go a long way with most fans if we heard Wallace get down on himself in regards to specific plays.

[cold-hard-steel]

Hey all it's a game we play to win. We are all caught up in it together. Bickering don't get the job done , Making plays when they come to you just might be the fix. Just sayin.

[Steelreal]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/53492/video-wallace-probably-wont-report-monday

Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger expected wide receiver Mike Wallace to show up for the start of training camp. That didn't happen.

There was a recent report that Wallace would end his holdout over this past weekend. And that didn't happen, either.



The earliest you should expect Wallace to return to Pittsburgh is Tuesday. Why? It's all about ensuring he doesn't play in Thursday's preseason finale. ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter explains in the video.


This confirms more. :coffee:

A contract holdout is customary in this league. You have to use your leverage to maximize your earning potential. I dont blame Wallace for holding out. I blame his for lethargic effort. Ben needs to ride him hard. It will make him better. Thats what a leader does. Randy Moss made Randall Cunningham and Culpepper an Mvp and All pro respectively. Did you see what Moss did with Brady? Thats THREE quarterbacks that he led to their best years ever.

Wallace has more speed than Moss. Just not the focus or hands. Is Cunningham or Culpepper better than Ben? Even though they have had better single seasons with a speed guy. Stats can be misleading as they are in this case.

[zulater]

You don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Brown had a terrible game. He's had a substandard year. But I'm still glad he's on the team and am confident that he'll put this year behind him and go on and have a great season in 2013.

This is just one of those years.

Too much was taken for granted and this team suffered from an overall lack of focus. The receivers as a whole were one of the major culprits. But I think these all all high character guys and once we can cleanse ourselves of this season, and the number 1 cancer who spread his discontent and lack of focus throughout the unit, we'll see Antonio Brown and Emanuel Sanders will more effecient football players next season.

Well I was half right. :chuckle: Go back to page one, some of you guys really bailed out completely on Brown. :pointlaugh:

[GoSlash27]

I wonder what they're bitching about now that'll be proven completely wrong next year. :ranger:

[GBMelBlount]

There are plenty of times Ben "should" have thrown the ball away over the years and didn't only to make a game-changing play. Just because the offense has changed doesn't mean he should. Haley's system was supposed to keep him off the ground by expediating Ben's decision making process due to a quicker style of passing game. It's worked sometimes, other times it has not. Wallace, Sanders and Brown have proven they cannot get the necessary seperation consistently enough in the quick passing routes which effectively destroys the fundamentals of Haley's entire offense. Until that changes, we need "old Ben".

It was mentioned during the last game that Ben only throws the ball 1 to 10 yards 7% more often and I think he throws the long ball just as often. (I THINK this is what they said...)

That being the case, I don't think Ben's passing game has changed as much as people think.

Plus Ben HAS to throw a lot of bubble screens and dump offs to the running back because we have absolutely no running game.

So while it may LOOK bad much of it is out of necessity imo AND Ben's stats surprisingly still look very good all things considered.

I think the two biggest problems we have right now have nothing to do with Ben....the running game and our defense giving up big plays.

Other teams use the dink and dink with success and if we give Ben more control and upgrade his targets I think we will be fine.

[GBMelBlount]

lol, it does sound like a pick up line. :doh:

LOL. I chuckled when I read it too.

You are a good man 43. :drink:

[fansince'76]

http://forum.gamerage.com/pangya/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/10/6332.387e003f_5F00_HolyNecroPost_5F00_759032.jpeg

:chuckle:

[st33lersguy]

Well I was half right. :chuckle: Go back to page one, some of you guys really bailed out completely on Brown. :pointlaugh:

Your average fan (from any team) is reactionary, they react to what they just saw. If a player does great during a stretch or makes some great plays, they are great, if shortly after they make numerous mistakes, they are terrible. Being a fan of a team is emotionally based and sometimes us fans (me included) say things that we may not think makes sense if we step back and look at it analytically.

[GBMelBlount]

Your average fan (from any team) is reactionary, they react to what they just saw. If a player does great during a stretch or makes some great plays, they are great, if shortly after they make numerous mistakes, they are terrible. Being a fan of a team is emotionally based and sometimes us fans (me included) say things that we may not think makes sense if we step back and look at it analytically.

Great post!