Tomlin doesn’t ‘run away’ from Keisel’s criticism of Steelers

[stillers4me]

The Steelers (http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/) weren‘t in a state of readiness before playing the oft-beaten San Diego Chargers, and defensive end Brett Keisel sensed it.

Keisel even warned his teammates beforehand of underestimating a struggling opponent but one with talent. Final score: Chargers 34, Steelers 24.

Mike Tomlin not only didn‘t object to Keisel‘s candidness, he agrees with him.

Tomlin made a surprising admission Tuesday by saying Keisel‘s analysis was correct..............


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/3113097-85/tomlin-steelers-keisel#ixzz2EtSzKOtF

[Steeldude]

Poor coaching? I am thinking yes.

IMO, Tomlin is riding the BR train. I know, I know, Tomlin is the greatest HC....

[Crow-Magnon]

I will never understand how, in the Age of Parity, that one NFL team overlooks another.

[X-Terminator]

I will never understand how, in the Age of Parity, that one NFL team overlooks another.

It's human nature. It's also no excuse.

[Mach1]

It is what it is. The standard is the standard.

The chargers just punched ya in the junk, kind of hard to hide from it.

[GoSlash27]

Poor coaching? I am thinking yes.

IMO, Tomlin is riding the BR train. I know, I know, Tomlin is the greatest HC....

What's the "BR train"?

[43Hitman]

What's the "BR train"?

Ben Rothelisberger

[GoSlash27]

Ben Rothelisberger

Okay... I still don't see what that would have to do with this, but thanks for clearing that up.

[43Hitman]

Okay... I still don't see what that would have to do with this, but thanks for clearing that up.

yeah me either, I think he is trying to imply that Tomlin is a below average coach without Ben.

[Devilsdancefloor]

At the moment i dont know what t think about coach T he has some great "tomlinism", but either everyone tunes it out or we are what our record reflects. Im starting to believe it is the latter

[Psycho Ward 86]

yeah me either, I think he is trying to imply that Tomlin is a below average coach without Ben.

which is stupid because no team with a shitty qb this season is playoff caliber. Not one.

[Dwinsgames]

which is stupid because no team with a shitty qb this season is playoff caliber. Not one.


I get your point , but everyone's definition of " shitty" may not be the same ....

I consider Mark Sanchez shitty , with a couple Steeler and Bengal losses and a couple Jets wins ..... he will be in the playoffs .....

but most times it is the case the stink stays outside the second season .....

[GoSlash27]

yeah me either, I think he is trying to imply that Tomlin is a below average coach without Ben.
Could be. I guess we'll have to get that from Steeldude.
But if that is the case... I don't think this performance reflects on Tomlin one way or the other. It's not like the players didn't know how to play or what they were supposed to be doing. They just played flat, like they lacked the proper motivation. I think most here would agree with that.
And if that's the case, even Chuck Noll always said that motivating players wasn't his job. The way he figured it, if a player wasn't motivated he'd rather fire him than motivate him.
I'm not attacking Tomlin or defending him here. I just don't think he has anything to do with this poor performance. If anything, I'd look to da Beard for answers. He recognized that his people weren't in the right frame of mind. It was up to him to fix that. It's the old-heads' job to motivate their teammates.

Just my opinion...

[Dwinsgames]

going from the line of thinking I am seeing in this and many threads ( maybe this should be a thread of its own I dunno )

but an interesting question comes to mind here and depending on whom you talk to as to what answer you may get on the same basic question ......

so here goes ....

is A) or B) what you believe, and make your argument for your case if you believe A) at what point should a change be made with the players and or the Coach , if B) is true in your mind at what point is it the coaches Job to make a change ... because with either answer something has to change and it is Tomlins job to make that change as the Head Coach


A )Is Mike Tomlin Responsible for his players lack of effort , lack of concentration , and poor performance on the field .....

OR

B ) Are the players paid professionals that being so should provide enough incentive for them to self motivate in order to keep their jobs as starters and all responsibility for lack of effort , concentration and poor performance lays directly at their feet ......


and please explain .....

[GoSlash27]

I think B is closer to the truth, but my answer is C) it is and has always been the job of the senior players to provide leadership and motivation for the team. They are supposed to give the rah-rah speeches, mentor their juniors, and take charge when they see lapses of effort and concentration. Not all players necessarily look to their coaches for guidance and approval, but *all* of them look up to the greybeards in the locker room.
Kinda like a military organization. The coaching staff fulfills the duties of officers, but it's the senior NCOs who actually make things happen.

[cold-hard-steel]

Could be. I guess we'll have to get that from Steeldude.
But if that is the case... I don't think this performance reflects on Tomlin one way or the other. It's not like the players didn't know how to play or what they were supposed to be doing. They just played flat, like they lacked the proper motivation. I think most here would agree with that.
And if that's the case, even Chuck Noll always said that motivating players wasn't his job. The way he figured it, if a player wasn't motivated he'd rather fire him than motivate him.
I'm not attacking Tomlin or defending him here. I just don't think he has anything to do with this poor performance. If anything, I'd look to da Beard for answers. He recognized that his people weren't in the right frame of mind. It was up to him to fix that. It's the old-heads' job to motivate their teammates.

Just my opinion...

Thats kind of what i was thinking , The players know how to play the game. For some unknown reason the players do not get up for teams that are below their own level of ability. Then they get their butts handed to them. I am not going to blame Tomlin for that. Maybe he should start firing people. Players , coaches ,anyone who does not conform to his standards. Start his own team so to speak. I am at the point i don't know what to think anymore. I damn well know this team is better than their record indicates. Maybe the SanDiego loss might wake each and every one of them up.

[ALLD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy1OlhiBcXw

The Steelers have a lot of holes on this team and that also includes coaching.

[43Hitman]

I think B is closer to the truth, but my answer is C) it is and has always been the job of the senior players to provide leadership and motivation for the team. They are supposed to give the rah-rah speeches, mentor their juniors, and take charge when they see lapses of effort and concentration. Not all players necessarily look to their coaches for guidance and approval, but *all* of them look up to the greybeards in the locker room.
Kinda like a military organization. The coaching staff fulfills the duties of officers, but it's the senior NCOs who actually make things happen.
This is where I fall in line as well. Certainly the coaching staff has some culpability, but its up to the vets to keep everyone on the same page and motivated.

[Craic]

Poor coaching? I am thinking yes.

IMO, Tomlin is riding the BR train. I know, I know, Tomlin is the greatest HC....

Well, in light of the fact that:


Wallace has the same problems this year as he has had every year. He can't catch. He can't run routes. He has...


IMO, [Woodley] doesn't contain well or cover that well. He disappears for stretches too.


foote is absolutely horrible in pass coverage and a bowling pin against the run.


[Plaxico Burress] is out-positioned by small DBs. I do remember Burress using his chest to catch the ball rather than extending his arms to catch it at its highest point.


Rashard Mendenhall - Not a position of need. Overrated RB coming out of the spread. Afraid of contact [and] I always had a feeling he was a baby. A wasted draft pick. The Steelers should have never went for a RB in the first round.


Wow, Curtis Brown is awful. I was watching him last week too. He is rather slow to react and his overall speed is sub-standard, IMO.


They haven't had a leader on defense since Lloyd left. There no leaders on this team that I can see.


Hampton is a shell of his former self [and] . . . players get old and need to be cut or sat on the bench. One of those players is Hampton


[Batch] still needs to be let go next season. Same goes for Leftwich.


Should have let Beachum go to the practice squad


The D-line is subpar


The Steelers' O-line sucks.


The Steelers defense showed huge holes in the secondary.


Colon hasn't been overly impressive so far [and] That's the best they could come up with to drum up a compliment for Colon? Kemo was just as violent, if not more.


Until Adams can show he can be by himself he is still a huge liability


Gilbert seems like a puss to me.


Lebeau isn't aggressive. He sits backs an hopes for a mistake. How has that been working out?

I'd say coaching a team that is this horrible according to you, to a current sixth seed in the playoffs isn't exactly "riding the BR train." I mean, since basically, there's only four or five good players on this team according to you, and everyone else is average or poor, I'd say that he's doing a bang up job.

[GoSlash27]

Well, in light of the fact that:
(multiple quotes)
I'd say coaching a team that is this horrible according to you, to a current sixth seed in the playoffs isn't exactly "riding the BR train." I mean, since basically, there's only four or five good players on this team according to you, and everyone else is average or poor, I'd say that he's doing a bang up job.

Well, you know how it is. Some people see the glass as half-full and others see the glass as ZOMG THE SKY IS FALLING EVERYBODY PANIC!! :wink02:

[Steeldude]

yeah me either, I think he is trying to imply that Tomlin is a below average coach without Ben.

Bingo

[Steeldude]

Well, in light of the fact that:

I'd say coaching a team that is this horrible according to you, to a current sixth seed in the playoffs isn't exactly "riding the BR train." I mean, since basically, there's only four or five good players on this team according to you, and everyone else is average or poor, I'd say that he's doing a bang up job.

Gotta love it when someone needs to take posts out of context in attempt to make some sort of point...lol

When did I say or imply the team is horrible? I will be awaiting your answer.


I'd say that he's doing a bang up job

And that would be your opinion.

Don't worry about the Steelers and the playoffs. Tomlin has saved up his two-point conversion plays to seal the deal : )

[GoSlash27]

Bingo

Fair 'nuff. Thanks for clarifying.

[GoSlash27]

Interesting...
http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Dick_LeBeau_Interview_1213_/6c94458d-8822-44dd-a427-1493e7d10faa
http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Todd_Haley_Interview_1213/729f5c2f-0be3-4c63-bb24-b3a49b352d1e

Both coordinators were stressing "veteran players communicating" in today's interviews. That tells me that they're seeing the same problem we are and working to get a handle on it. Here's to hoping it works! :drink:

[43Hitman]

Interesting...
http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Dick_LeBeau_Interview_1213_/6c94458d-8822-44dd-a427-1493e7d10faa
http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Todd_Haley_Interview_1213/729f5c2f-0be3-4c63-bb24-b3a49b352d1e

Both coordinators were stressing "veteran players communicating" in today's interviews. That tells me that they're seeing the same problem we are and working to get a handle on it. Here's to hoping it works! :drink:

Amen brother!

[stillers4me]

Yes, I believe the veteran players have a huge role in mentoring and motivating the younger players, but I also believe that after the exits if Farrior, Hokey, Hines, Aaron Smith and Flozell, just to name a few off the top of my head, we have fewer self motivated players. You didn't have to tell any of them to get ready for a game.

[Craic]

Gotta love it when someone needs to take posts out of context in attempt to make some sort of point...lol

When did I say or imply the team is horrible? I will be awaiting your answer.



And that would be your opinion.

Don't worry about the Steelers and the playoffs. Tomlin has saved up his two-point conversion plays to seal the deal : )

Actually, no, those aren't out of context. None of those said "in this game" only for me to cut it out. For it to be "out of context" I would have had to cut, say, Colon's quote where you qualify it with "so far." I left it in there for that reason. Maybe you're a little surprised that you really are that negative towards this team. I don't know. I do admit a couple of them were from earlier in the season. My point however, is that if you think such a number of players on this team, and the number of units on this team are bad, then exactly how do you think a coach that is getting enough wins from an average to sub-average team is a below average coach.

Either the players are below average, or the coach is. But both can't be below average and still have the team in the sixth seed at this point in the season. And no, I personally don't think he's doing a "bang up job" that was sarcasm.

So, I guess my question is, which is it? Do we have a team where a quarter of our starters this year (Hampton, Mendenhall, Woodley, Foote, Wallace, and Beachum) shouldn't be on the team because they're not good enough, and we only have a few players that are worth praising (I think I found you praising Ben, Heath, Timmons-in a backhanded way, Brown, and I'd imagine I could put Ryan Clark in here for you as well), thus we have a coach that's able to get more out of the whole than its individual parts? Or do we have a team that should be able to make the playoffs, but we struggle making it because of the coach?

Logically, it's one or the other since we are in the sixth spot right now, and a team that is average in the league will miss the playoffs. (16 teams per conference, six spots for playoffs, 10 teams don't go. Therefore average teams don't make it).

That was the entire point of my post, which you seemed to completely sidestep. I'll admit, the sarcasm could have been lost in the transfer of electrons, so now that I've asked the question directly, I'm looking forward to the answer.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Bingo

who are the great coaches around the league with shitty qb's?

[Count Steeler]

who are the great coaches around the league with shitty qb's?

Rex Ryan. :rofl2:

[X-Terminator]

Bingo

Yeah, because there are so many great coaches out there with horrible QBs. :rolleyes:

Answer me this. How much of a genius would Bill Belichick be if he didn't have Tom Brady? Now keep in mind, he had a horrible record as a HC before Fairy Boy came around. How about Mike McCarthy? We all saw what happened to the Colts last year without Peyton Manning, and then this year with Andy Luck. Think Tom Coughlin isn't thankful he has Eli Manning on his team? He wouldn't have 2 rings without him, that's for sure. Bill Cowher had a lot of success with average to poor QBs...thanks in large part to a dominant defense and running game. But even he had plenty of shitty seasons with those same average to poor QBs, including 3 consecutive .500 and below seasons from 1998-2000 and didn't win the big one until when? That's right, when Ben came around, the very guy that he had to be forced into drafting by Dan Rooney.

Bottom line is, EVERY successful team has a top-shelf QB leading their team. It does NOT make the head coaches of those teams horrible or "below average" as you claim Tomlin is. I think the true shitty coaches are the ones who have good QBs and still can't win (Norv Turner, Jim Schwartz, Jason Garrett).

But nevermind. You go on being the ultimate "glass-half-empty" guy. I get that you simply want to see better play and better players, but damn man...would it kill you to give out a compliment or 2 more than once in a blue moon?

[steeldawg]

Of course the the talent on the team matters to a coaches success, talent is the ultimate trump card in pro sports. Sure in little league a good coach can out wit a novice coach , but on a pro level the teams with talented qbs win consistently. The problem i see with tomlin is we have a franchise qb in his prime, a great group of young receivers, a solid tightend, a defense ranked at the top of the league, why in the world are we playing .500 football and why does everygame we play come right down to the wire. I watch other winning teams in the league and see these guys not only winning but dominating, crushing teams!

[Steeldude]

Yeah, because there are so many great coaches out there with horrible QBs. :rolleyes:

Answer me this. How much of a genius would Bill Belichick be if he didn't have Tom Brady? Now keep in mind, he had a horrible record as a HC before Fairy Boy came around. How about Mike McCarthy? We all saw what happened to the Colts last year without Peyton Manning, and then this year with Andy Luck. Think Tom Coughlin isn't thankful he has Eli Manning on his team? He wouldn't have 2 rings without him, that's for sure. Bill Cowher had a lot of success with average to poor QBs...thanks in large part to a dominant defense and running game. But even he had plenty of shitty seasons with those same average to poor QBs, including 3 consecutive .500 and below seasons from 1998-2000 and didn't win the big one until when? That's right, when Ben came around, the very guy that he had to be forced into drafting by Dan Rooney.

Bottom line is, EVERY successful team has a top-shelf QB leading their team. It does NOT make the head coaches of those teams horrible or "below average" as you claim Tomlin is. I think the true shitty coaches are the ones who have good QBs and still can't win (Norv Turner, Jim Schwartz, Jason Garrett).

But nevermind. You go on being the ultimate "glass-half-empty" guy. I get that you simply want to see better play and better players, but damn man...would it kill you to give out a compliment or 2 more than once in a blue moon?


How much of a genius would Bill Belichick be if he didn't have Tom Brady?

He did well with Cassell when Brady went down. Chuck Knox did well without a great QB when he coached the Rams. Billick went to a SB with Dilfer as the QB. Then again it's hard for me to say how well they were as coaches because I didn't follow those teams like I do the Steelers. Cowher did very well with a WR as the QB. Now what about coaches like Caldwell? When Manning went down so did the team. He was winning with the great Manning, but lost when he went down. The Colts win, regardless of the coach, with Manning running the show. David Shula would be winning with Manning. One could say they were riding the (insert QB name)train.

I am not saying player talent is not needed to win. Obviously, if you have a group of bums on the field you aren't going to do well. It seems to me many of you are saying a good QB is all that is needed, not a good coach. What if the Steelers hired someone besides Tomlin; do you think the results would be about the same? What if they hired Billick(if he was available)? IMO, Tomlin doesn't have the "It" factor. I wouldn't say he is below average as is quoted earlier. I should have said average HC. I really don't see anything that special out of him.

Let me clarify. I realize a good QB is needed(usually) to win in the NFL. That's why I wanted Kordell gone from the beginning. However, when a team shows a trend of coming out flat or is ill-prepared against inferior teams then I think coaching is a big part of it.

Archie Bunker doesn't give out a lot of compliments :thumbsup:

[86WARD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy1OlhiBcXw

The Steelers have a lot of holes on this team and that also includes coaching.

You can thank the 2008 draft for that.

[GoSlash27]

I am not saying player talent is not needed to win. Obviously, if you have a group of bums on the field you aren't going to do well.
By your earlier quotes cited upstream, we *do* have a bunch of bums on the field.

I'm siding with Preach on this one. You have the right to be as negative and critical as you want, and the rest of us have the right to dismiss your opinion as overly-negative. We simply could not have an average head coach, wimpy DC, a field full of average/ below average players *and* still wind up in playoff contention with the #1 ranked defense. The math doesn't work.

[Craic]

However, when a team shows a trend of coming out flat or is ill-prepared against inferior teams then I think coaching is a big part of it.

Archie Bunker doesn't give out a lot of compliments :thumbsup:

For as much as I've been yanking your chain in the last few posts here and in the other thread . . . this is a very good point and I completely agree. That doesn't mean overall, he isn't a pretty dang good coach. It's that this is one area of the overall makeup of a coach that he's struggling.

[Steeldude]

By your earlier quotes cited upstream, we *do* have a bunch of bums on the field.

I'm siding with Preach on this one. You have the right to be as negative and critical as you want, and the rest of us have the right to dismiss your opinion as overly-negative. We simply could not have an average head coach, wimpy DC, a field full of average/ below average players *and* still wind up in playoff contention with the #1 ranked defense. The math doesn't work.

Don't be so sensitive. I know I have the right to point out a player's faults etc... just as you have the right to exaggerate and complain about a person's opinions.

Who said the entire team is average to below average? Please copy and paste this comment. You see how you exaggerate? Many of you people have that problem.

Tell me, do you think the Steelers would be any different if they hired Billick instead of Tomlin?

[GoSlash27]

Don't be so sensitive. I know I have the right to point out a player's faults etc... just as you have the right to exaggerate and complain about a person's opinions.

Who said the entire team is average to below average? Please copy and paste this comment. You see how you exaggerate? Many of you people have that problem.

Tell me, do you think the Steelers would be any different if they hired Billick instead of Tomlin?

Oh, I'm not being "sensitive" at all. In fact, I'm the opposite. I'm just letting your bellyaching go right in one ear and out the other, 'cuz it's clearly not worth paying attention to. :ranger:
/carry on.

[Steeldude]

Oh, I'm not being "sensitive" at all. In fact, I'm the opposite. I'm just letting your bellyaching go right in one ear and out the other, 'cuz it's clearly not worth paying attention to. :ranger:
/carry on.

I am not bellyaching. I am merely posting my opinion. You are upset with it.


cuz it's clearly not worth paying attention to

So then why are you paying attention? Good job :thumbsup:

I see you ran from my question. Tell me, do you think the Steelers would be any different if they hired Billick instead of Tomlin?

[GoSlash27]

I am not bellyaching. I am merely posting my opinion. You are upset with it.
Hey, post away. :pop2: And thanks for your declaration of my emotional state, but I'm *pretty sure* I'm in a better position to know that than you are.

I'm sorry, but I just plain don't know how else to get the point across: I'm really not interested in arguing this with you. I'm just plain not. Some people are optimistic about the team, and some people are pessimistic. Such is life in the National Football League. :tomlinism:
So carry on, Sir. I hope you have a good day and that all is well with you and yours.

[Dwinsgames]

what do you get what you cross a person who is highly optimistic that their team can beat anybody with a person who feels like their team can lose to anybody .....I am that man


and I complain about it because I feel we are capable to be a far better product than the one who has taken the field each week in 2012

[Steeldude]

Hey, post away. :pop2: And thanks for your declaration of my emotional state, but I'm *pretty sure* I'm in a better position to know that than you are.

I'm sorry, but I just plain don't know how else to get the point across: I'm really not interested in arguing this with you. I'm just plain not. Some people are optimistic about the team, and some people are pessimistic. Such is life in the National Football League. :tomlinism:
So carry on, Sir. I hope you have a good day and that all is well with you and yours.

In other words, I answer your questions, but when you are asked questions you run away in fear. That's typical for you people.

Tell me, do you think the Steelers would be any different if they hired Billick instead of Tomlin?