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View Full Version : A "Would You Do It" question concerning a trade



Craic
12-07-2012, 12:23 PM
Background: I'm pretty much concluded (as I think many others have) that Mendy is gone at the end of the season. As much as I've rooted for Dwyer, I don't think he's the man to start. He doesn't have the burst and ability to impose his will like say, Jerome Bettis. I know, that's a very unfair comparison, but since he's more in the battering ram than speed back category, Bettis is the golden standard. Isaac Redman can impose his will at times, but he doesn't seem to have the sight necessary to be consistent, nor does he have the ability to put space between him and defenders. Yes, Bettis could do that in the open field, which is what made him so
scary.

So, with that said (and NOT what I want to discuss in this thread), looking around the NFL, would you trade for a running back that may be coming up? Would you take a RB in FA? Who?

Two rules here: (1) no "The Steelers don't . . ." I'm not interested in what the Steelers do or don't do, rather, what would you do; (2) keep it realistic, there's no way Adrian Peterson is putting on the B & G uniform (I'd eat my hat gladly if I'm ever wrong about this statement), so make an argument why you think it would be possible. I'm so interested in cap issues here, but if you want, give me who you think would be expendable to help with the cap hit.

For me -

I know he's dealt with injuries - but I'd be willing to take a flyer on Darren McFadden. He's signed for one more year, so a trade this offseason would give the Steelers a year to see what he could do in our offense. What would we have to give up in return? That's a good question. Do we have anyone to give up in return? While our number 1 draft pics have often been great pics, we're hit and miss with our number two pics. Our DB's and O line seem pretty stocked at this point. We have Worlids and Spence at LB - Worlids looks to be in the Foote/Hagans mode, serviceable, if not a game changer. Spence looked good, but who knows. We can find a number four receiver in the draft - I'm comfortable with Brown, Sanders, Cotchery as our 1-3. So really, NT, and maybe LB are our only "needs" going into the draft. I wouldn't mind giving up a second, and say a fourth this year for him. We're in the position where I think we'll end up cutting all but our best two or three draft choices anyway, so I don't see this harming us.

Dang - gotta go. I'll get back with one or two other scenarios later. In the mean time, would you do it? What would you do differently? Who else would you go after?

steelreserve
12-07-2012, 12:27 PM
Basically, I don't think we have any extra money to spend on the position, so we won't bring in anyone new unless it's through a mid-to-low draft pick. Which is honestly what I think is the right call anyway. We've got a bunch of young guys that bring a mix of power and speed (don't forget about Rainey), and they've done admirably well given how they were just thrust into the mix this year. Next year I'd expect them to improve even more.

PS - McFadden is on a 6-year, $60M deal and plays like 8 games a year. Pass.

Dwinsgames
12-07-2012, 12:32 PM
since this is hypothetical and since we are doing it as fun and games I will play along ...

I would make an attempt at Ben Tate in Houston , big powerful with some speed , he has seemingly fell out of favor as the #2 guy in Houston of late and his track record the past few years shows what kind of back he can be given the chance to play ...

I'll take him for the point of conversation

Count Steeler
12-07-2012, 12:34 PM
I am by no means a college football follower/expert. I watch Notre Dame when I have a chance.

I would use 1 of our later round picks to draft an RB. Either Cierre Wood or Theo Riddick seem like they could play behind a decent O Line. If neither one got drafted, I'd bring them in as a UDFA and check them out with the pros. I'm sure there are other guys out there that LLT, Texasteel, and the other draft gurus could come up with.

Dwinsgames
12-07-2012, 12:38 PM
I am by no means a college football follower/expert. I watch Notre Dame when I have a chance.

I would use 1 of our later round picks to draft an RB. Either Cierre Wood or Theo Riddick seem like they could play behind a decent O Line. If neither one got drafted, I'd bring them in as a UDFA and check them out with the pros. I'm sure there are other guys out there that LLT, Texasteel, and the other draft gurus could come up with.

Le'veon Ball RB Michigan state around the 3rd round

Psycho Ward 86
12-07-2012, 12:39 PM
a 2nd and a 4th for mcfadden is ridiculous. And you forget that Redman played with a high ankle sprain earlier in the season. Have you ever tried running on one of those?

X-Terminator
12-07-2012, 01:49 PM
since this is hypothetical and since we are doing it as fun and games I will play along ...

I would make an attempt at Ben Tate in Houston , big powerful with some speed , he has seemingly fell out of favor as the #2 guy in Houston of late and his track record the past few years shows what kind of back he can be given the chance to play ...

I'll take him for the point of conversation

Tate has been injured for much of the season, so Justin Forsett has been getting the work as the #2. But I'd still take him.

Craic
12-07-2012, 02:20 PM
Basically, I don't think we have any extra money to spend on the position, so we won't bring in anyone new unless it's through a mid-to-low draft pick. Which is honestly what I think is the right call anyway. We've got a bunch of young guys that bring a mix of power and speed (don't forget about Rainey), and they've done admirably well given how they were just thrust into the mix this year. Next year I'd expect them to improve even more.

PS - McFadden is on a 6-year, $60M deal and plays like 8 games a year. Pass.

Next year is the last year of his contract. I agree with the injury issues. However, it seems we're going to end up having those no matter whose the RB.

vader29
12-07-2012, 02:25 PM
Steven Jackson would look really good in black and gold if he exercises his option to become a free agent at the end of this season.

Craic
12-07-2012, 02:26 PM
a 2nd and a 4th for mcfadden is ridiculous. And you forget that Redman played with a high ankle sprain earlier in the season. Have you ever tried running on one of those?

Two issues: first, we'd have to get the Raiders to bite on a trade. I don't know if they bite on a second alone. What I gave was what, in the end, I'd be willing to give up. The fact is, again, I don't see us keeping very many draft choices this coming year. I also don't see us having a lot of cap room. For that reason, a first, and then a third makes sense for making the team. We seem to do great in the third round.

If they'd take a third and a fourth, I'd be fine with that as well. Or a third and Redman/Dwyer would be good okay with me too. Anyway, that's the scenario I put up there - and I don't see it hurting this team one bit. At worst, we end up where we are at now. At best, we end up with a major upgrade at RB.

steeldawg
12-07-2012, 05:48 PM
you know who i wouldnt mind seeing here and is probably a realistic option, LeGarrette Blount. Or a guy like chris ivory from new orleans.

Pristas
12-07-2012, 07:36 PM
I like Michael Bush. Forte has the starting job in Chicago, but when Bush has filled in for him or McFadden in Oakland, he's been a beast. I've nabbed him the past two seasons in fantasy and when McFadden went down, or when Forte went down, he was always a strong play. He has a nose for the endzone. That said, Chicago may have him locked up for a few years...

I bet they would take Mendy plus a 4th round pick for him.

I disagree with the OP though. Dwyer, if he is fit and gains stamina, which very well could become a priority for the trainers, could serve as a true number one next season. He's really just coming into his own. Maybe now that he's had a taste of victory, he will see that his time is now, and conditioning is key. If that light turns on for him, watch out.

Count Steeler
12-07-2012, 08:19 PM
Do we get any compensation if Mendy leaves? I believe we will get a third rounder if Wallace leaves.

Devilsdancefloor
12-07-2012, 08:27 PM
i really liked Anthony Dixon when he came out of college, but since i do not get to see 9ers games very often i do not know how he is doing but it looks like he is buried behind some good RBs coiuld possible get him on the cheap side :)

SteelerFanInStl
12-07-2012, 08:56 PM
Steven Jackson would look really good in black and gold if he exercises his option to become a free agent at the end of this season.

For years I've thought that Steven Jackson would be the perfect Steelers RB. Living here in St. Louis I've had the pleasure of watching him play a lot. He's been dinged up a bit the last few years but the man can still play and he has the heart of a champion. He's a great guy on and off the field and a great teammate. At this point in his career, he wants the chance to win and most people around here don't think there's much chance of him being a Ram next year. I'd LOVE to see him in the B&G!

Craic
12-07-2012, 09:21 PM
For years I've thought that Steven Jackson would be the perfect Steelers RB. Living here in St. Louis I've had the pleasure of watching him play a lot. He's been dinged up a bit the last few years but the man can still play and he has the heart of a champion. He's a great guy on and off the field and a great teammate. At this point in his career, he wants the chance to win and most people around here don't think there's much chance of him being a Ram next year. I'd LOVE to see him in the B&G!

I thought about him, but he's 29 going on 30. That's why I decided to not go that route when I was first looking. It's a shame there's only really one Bettis a generation or so. Probably will be another twenty years before we see another one like him.

SteelerFanInStl
12-07-2012, 10:16 PM
I thought about him, but he's 29 going on 30. That's why I decided to not go that route when I was first looking. It's a shame there's only really one Bettis a generation or so. Probably will be another twenty years before we see another one like him.

He's not a long term solution but he will give a team a few good years. Mix in Dwyer and Redman with him and you've got a very good backfield.

GBMelBlount
12-07-2012, 10:45 PM
Preacher

As much as I've rooted for Dwyer, I don't think he's the man to start.

You are entitled to you opinion and may certainly be right. He does not have the body of work imo.


Preacher

He doesn't have the burst and ability to impose his will like say, Jerome Bettis.

Their measurables (size and speed) are very similar and I would imagine "imposing will" is simply a formed opinion....perhaps it can be measured by yards or yards after contact but Dwyer is solid in both of those areas despite his limited carries.


Preacher

I know, that's a very unfair comparison, but since he's (Dwyer?) more in the battering ram than speed back category, Bettis is the golden standard.

Bettis' nickname actually WAS the battering ram....so I personally think an argument can be made that that quality is not exclusive to Dwyer.

Comparing them is fine imo. Dwyer has a half yard per carry more than Bettis on average and possibly more YAC on average as well....

I realize that Dwyer still has a lot to prove my point is that we should look at our options because he does not have enough body of work....not because he has shown me anything that would tell me he can't cut it.

That being said I also think Steven Jackson would be a nice addition "at the right price". lol

SteelMayhem72
12-07-2012, 11:25 PM
Im happy with Dwyer AND Redman...Mendy will be gone...Rainey great 3rd option as RB running on the perimeters...I say draft a RB 5th or 6th round

- - - Updated - - -

This will be the more likely scenario anyway...sorry had to say it and yes that is what I would do!

SteelMayhem72
12-07-2012, 11:31 PM
I think we have more pending issues...Ive seen enough of Dwyer that tells me YES hes the closest thing to Bettis that Ive ever seen!!

- - - Updated - - -

Lets face it we are never gonna actually see another Bettis in our lifetime...Dwyer is the closest we will ever see!!

SteelMayhem72
12-07-2012, 11:34 PM
Dwyer's influenced running style is obviously Bettis...watch his Bettis impersonation when he finishes a run

steeldawg
12-08-2012, 05:18 AM
Dwyer is not bettis not even close, bettis had excellent vision quick feet and good accelleration through the hole. Bettis was more agile than dwyer despite being 25lbs heavier and bettis was a battering ram for 13 seasons and over 3400 carries, dwyer has not made it through a single season yet. The only similarity i see in the two is they both played for the steelers and dwyer tried to do bettis's dance.

86WARD
12-08-2012, 05:47 AM
Ben Tate >>>> McFadden.

steeldawg
12-08-2012, 05:51 AM
Ben Tate >>>> McFadden.

i like both of them

tube517
12-08-2012, 06:34 AM
Our greatest RB was let go and now plays in the state of Wisconsin. I think you know who I'm talking about. :chuckle:

Seriously, Ben Tate is the first name that came to mind.

Seven
12-08-2012, 06:51 AM
I wouldn't spend a dime on a back in free agency. Draft a guy maybe, but the backfield is already crowded even after Mendenhall leaves. Dwyer, Redman and Rainey aren't going anywhere and it seems like the coaching staff wants Batch, too. I just don't see any room to throw another back into the mix, right or wrong.

86WARD
12-08-2012, 06:55 AM
A better back than Redman and Batch? There's plenty of room. Nothing says that Redman and/or Batch has to be part of the mix. Dwyer is clearly better than both of those guys...so there basically is nothing holding those two here. There will be money to spend on a back...

43Hitman
12-08-2012, 07:21 AM
Our greatest RB was let go and now plays in the state of Wisconsin. I think you know who I'm talking about. :chuckle:

Seriously, Ben Tate is the first name that came to mind.

He would solve all of our problems. He could even play in Ike's place after a 16 play 8 minute drive, all off them wham's off of right guard. See that's two roster spots covered right there, and hell he could coach the oline too, since Kugler is going to UTEP. :chuckle:

Seven
12-08-2012, 07:37 AM
A better back than Redman and Batch? There's plenty of room. Nothing says that Redman and/or Batch has to be part of the mix. Dwyer is clearly better than both of those guys...so there basically is nothing holding those two here. There will be money to spend on a back...

From my understanding things are going to be fairly tight. I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with your points, I just don't see it playing out in such a way that we end up signing a runningback via free agency.

7willBheaven
12-08-2012, 07:57 AM
Do we get any compensation if Mendy leaves? I believe we will get a third rounder if Wallace leaves.

Nothing is set in stone when you loose a FA. However generally "bigger name" ones sign bigger contracts and play more which equals higher comp picks. However say Mendy signs a small deal and is a #2 back and barely plays...then they'd get a lower round pick...same with Wallace.

Dwinsgames
12-08-2012, 08:23 AM
Other than Tate the only guy I would even consider placing a phone call on would be Michael Bush

Seven
12-08-2012, 08:30 AM
If I had to pick names that I think are realistic I would say Jackie Battle and Javon Ringer are two guys we could probably get our hands on who would add some competition and talent at the position. But as far as guys like McFadden and Tate I just don't see it happening.

SteelerFanInStl
12-08-2012, 10:30 AM
Dwyer is not bettis not even close, bettis had excellent vision quick feet and good accelleration through the hole. Bettis was more agile than dwyer despite being 25lbs heavier and bettis was a battering ram for 13 seasons and over 3400 carries, dwyer has not made it through a single season yet. The only similarity i see in the two is they both played for the steelers and dwyer tried to do bettis's dance.

I agree. I don't get the constant Bettis comparisons for Dwyer. I like Dwyer but he's no Bettis.

silver & black
12-08-2012, 11:26 AM
Take Dmac....please!

I like the guy, but he's all but useless to us. Gregg Knapp has ruined his career in Oakland with his crap ZBS scheme. Dmac belongs in a power scheme. I'm afraid he is always going to have injury issues, no matter what scheme he plays in. He's just not very durable. He's already hurt again in his first game back.

He's a luxury for a good team. He isn't a player the Raiders need right now. If he could play a whole season, it would be different. I'd like to see him go somewhere and make something out of the little career he has left.

Mojouw
12-08-2012, 11:43 AM
So a few comments...

Dwyer is not Bettis. He is a larger RB and plays for the Steelers. Those are about the only similarities.

Mendenhall is still the most physically talented back on the roster Although not the most effective. He will only be 26 (I think) next season. If he comes back on a team friendly deal, then why not?

But this thread is about potential TRADES so here goes...

Steven Jackson is a talented elite NFL RB but he is on the wrong side of 30 (or close to it) and has a ton of mileage on him. No way the Steelers should trade for a player whose most productive days are behind him.

Michael Bush is similar. I do not think that one should ever pay a ton of money for an older RB with wear on the tires so to speak.

Javon Ringer and Jackie Battle are just guys. I figure the only attraction people here have to them is that they are "big" backs and could look good averaging exactly 3 yards per carry. I refuse to endorse giving up draft picks or other talent in a trade for guys that are basically other versions of Redman and Dwyer.

McFadden would be amazing for the 4 games a year he isn't hurt.

Tate looks great in limited time with the Texans, but then again so does Forsett. Plus Foster wasn't a world beater before the Texans uncovered him. So how much of that is the line....?

Basically, I argue that RB's (aside from a few truly special talents in the league) are a dime a dozen and can be found almost anywhere, including outside of high draft picks. So why waste resources on acquiring them? I know. I know. We traded for Bettis. But I think that was a special case.

I still say that Mendenhall behind an injury free line of Starks/Colon/Pouncey/DeCastro/Adams would be a holy terror. Especially if they allow A FB to consistently lead him through the hole.

Seven
12-08-2012, 01:24 PM
Javon Ringer and Jackie Battle are just guys. I figure the only attraction people here have to them is that they are "big" backs and could look good averaging exactly 3 yards per carry. I refuse to endorse giving up draft picks or other talent in a trade for guys that are basically other versions of Redman and Dwyer.

Battle averages 4.3 yards per carry, has experience in Haley's offense and can play fullback if needed. Don't see what's not to like.

steeldawg
12-08-2012, 01:29 PM
why get battle when you can get a guy like legarrette blount

Psycho Ward 86
12-08-2012, 01:56 PM
I like Michael Bush. Forte has the starting job in Chicago, but when Bush has filled in for him or McFadden in Oakland, he's been a beast. I've nabbed him the past two seasons in fantasy and when McFadden went down, or when Forte went down, he was always a strong play. He has a nose for the endzone. That said, Chicago may have him locked up for a few years...

I bet they would take Mendy plus a 4th round pick for him.

I disagree with the OP though. Dwyer, if he is fit and gains stamina, which very well could become a priority for the trainers, could serve as a true number one next season. He's really just coming into his own. Maybe now that he's had a taste of victory, he will see that his time is now, and conditioning is key. If that light turns on for him, watch out.

Dwyer and Redman are already 2 good bludgeoning backs. We need more balance from our RB stable imo. A well rounded guy like a chris ivory as said above

Seven
12-08-2012, 02:03 PM
Dwyer and Redman are already 2 good bludgeoning backs. We need more balance from our RB stable imo. A well rounded guy like a chris ivory as said above

I like Ivory a lot, but don't you guys think the Saints have to realize what they have in him? He has been superior to Thomas and Ingram in my opinion.

SteelerFanInStl
12-08-2012, 02:33 PM
Mendenhall is still the most physically talented back on the roster Although not the most effective. He will only be 26 (I think) next season. If he comes back on a team friendly deal, then why not?

I agree. I'd actually like to see Mendy back but undoubtedly some other team is going to offer him more money than what he's worth.


Steven Jackson is a talented elite NFL RB but he is on the wrong side of 30 (or close to it) and has a ton of mileage on him. No way the Steelers should trade for a player whose most productive days are behind him.


Jackson has the option to void the final year of his contract after this season so we wouldn't have to trade for him.

steeldawg
12-08-2012, 02:34 PM
ivory would be great, i think the saints realize what they have but who knows they have so many backs maybe they will look to streamline their backfield

Psycho Ward 86
12-08-2012, 02:35 PM
im curious as to why everyone wants a 3rd powerback in the form of steven jackson, michael bush, jackie battle, even javon ringer runs like one even though he isnt so big. Why not get some diversity in the backfield

steeldawg
12-08-2012, 02:42 PM
im curious as to why everyone wants a 3rd powerback in the form of steven jackson, michael bush, jackie battle, even javon ringer runs like one even though he isnt so big. Why not get some diversity in the backfield

I dont want a third i would like to keep mendy, but if we dont i dont think dwyer is the answer at running back. I think mendy is a great combination of power and speed, that is the type of back i want to see.

Dwinsgames
12-08-2012, 03:52 PM
Bush does not have the miles on him that some seen to think , he has been a backup and spot starter his entire career ... lots of tread left on those tires IMO ...

steelreserve
12-08-2012, 04:04 PM
im curious as to why everyone wants a 3rd powerback in the form of steven jackson, michael bush, jackie battle, even javon ringer runs like one even though he isnt so big. Why not get some diversity in the backfield

Exactly. We don't need another one. I was thinking Rainey could serve as a guy who brings some speed, but if there's someone else out there who's more proven and still cheap, then just as good. It would be great if we had Mendenhall back from when he was good, but at this point I'm not convinced it's happening, and it's not worth gambling the $4-$5M or so he's making.

Psycho Ward 86
12-08-2012, 04:08 PM
Exactly. We don't need another one. I was thinking Rainey could serve as a guy who brings some speed, but if there's someone else out there who's more proven and still cheap, then just as good. It would be great if we had Mendenhall back from when he was good, but at this point I'm not convinced it's happening, and it's not worth gambling the $4-$5M or so he's making.

rainey's too small and weak to be an all-purpose back though.

and no people. baron batch is not the answer.

Steeldude
12-08-2012, 04:19 PM
McFadden isn't worth a 2nd and 4th. He is worth about a 5th round pick. The O-line pretty much makes the run game happen. If McFadden was a special back(Sanders, Campbell, Payton etc...) then a trade would be a good idea. The main issue with McFadden is his poor durability.

Pick a RB up via draft or free agency. The Steelers are fine with Redman and Dwyer going into next season.


So really, NT, and maybe LB are our only "needs" going into the draft

They have Mclendon and Alameda Ta'amu is on the practice squad. IMO, LB and S are positions of need come next draft.

steeldawg
12-08-2012, 04:29 PM
safety will be a spot for sure we have to look at, we dont know what we are going to get from troy, clark is getting older and hes one missle tackle away from an injury.

steelreserve
12-08-2012, 04:44 PM
rainey's too small and weak to be an all-purpose back though.

and no people. baron batch is not the answer.

He wouldn't be an all-purpose back. He'd be the change of pace back who's quick and sometimes catches passes. With who we've got on the team already, I honestly don't think we really NEED an all-purpose back. Redman and Dwyer do an OK job filling most of the purposes, and we can fill in the rest with either a guy like Rainey or some other guy who won't cost a fortune.

Psycho Ward 86
12-08-2012, 04:57 PM
He wouldn't be an all-purpose back. He'd be the change of pace back who's quick and sometimes catches passes. With who we've got on the team already, I honestly don't think we really NEED an all-purpose back. Redman and Dwyer do an OK job filling most of the purposes, and we can fill in the rest with either a guy like Rainey or some other guy who won't cost a fortune.

Haley's always liked his backs to be able to do everything. seems to me its a big part of what makes his offenses effective, like what he did with curtis martin, edgerin james, jamaal charles. Defenses had to hold those guys accountable as formidable runners, receivers, and blockers. No one is scared of what dwyer and redman can do off of checkdown passes

SteelerFanInStl
12-08-2012, 05:16 PM
rainey's too small and weak to be an all-purpose back though.

and no people. baron batch is not the answer.

Correct on both points.

steelreserve
12-08-2012, 05:43 PM
Haley's always liked his backs to be able to do everything. seems to me its a big part of what makes his offenses effective, like what he did with curtis martin, edgerin james, jamaal charles. Defenses had to hold those guys accountable as formidable runners, receivers, and blockers. No one is scared of what dwyer and redman can do off of checkdown passes

OK, well then let's be prepared to spend a few million to get one of those guys. I totally agree that Jackson, Bush, etc. are not those type and it would be redundant to go looking for them. If money were no object, then yeah, I'd say it would be great to have such a back. Realistically, I think money is too much of an issue for us to do it unless we draft someone.

Heinz Hitman
12-08-2012, 10:07 PM
you know who i wouldnt mind seeing here and is probably a realistic option, LeGarrette Blount. Or a guy like chris ivory from new orleans.

I would love to see Chris Ivory in the black n gold. Big fan of his.

SteelerFanInStl
12-08-2012, 10:34 PM
OK, well then let's be prepared to spend a few million to get one of those guys. I totally agree that Jackson, Bush, etc. are not those type and it would be redundant to go looking for them. If money were no object, then yeah, I'd say it would be great to have such a back. Realistically, I think money is too much of an issue for us to do it unless we draft someone.

Jackson is that type. He had 90 receptions one year for the Rams.

Like I've said before, he's not a long term solution but he'd be a great fit for a few years. I don't see it happening though.

86WARD
12-09-2012, 05:41 AM
From my understanding things are going to be fairly tight. I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with your points, I just don't see it playing out in such a way that we end up signing a runningback via free agency.

There will be some players dumped that will free up cash and there will be some renegotiating done. They'll have money and will be fine.

Ben, Woodley, Timmons, Colon will all have to be redone. Suisham, if they keep him, will have to be redone as well. They'll need to decide to either release or redo Harrison's desk as well. They could use the money that they would pay Redman towards a better back...so it's not do bad as far as out of pocket goes to bring in a new back.

I believe both Redman and Dwyer are RFAs this offseason (with Sanders.)

86WARD
12-09-2012, 05:45 AM
I would love to see Chris Ivory in the black n gold. Big fan of his.

Much rather have Chris Ivory than Steven Jackson. Jackson is just a name at this point...

Sign Dwyer as a RFA. Let Mendenhall and Redman go. Sign a solid FA. Once Mendenhall is released it will be official that the 2008 draft class was the WORST EVER.