Here, have another Wallace thread... this time he admits to lacking concentration...

[Pristas]

At times, Mike Wallace appears the perfect fit for the Steelers (http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/)’ passing game. Then there are moments when the fleet-footed receiver seems adrift mentally, resulting in uncharacteristic drops and lapses in concentration.
“I’ve never been a guy who dropped balls or just lose focus,” Wallace said somewhat apologetically. “The first three years I was always involved, so you just warmed up in games, and you were just into it.
“But when you don’t get the ball for two-and-half quarters, you lose focus. But that’s the type of offense this is. We’re spreading it around, so you’re not going to get as many targets. When you get them, you have to make the best of them.”


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[43Hitman]

Sounds like a whole lot of whining to me. Get over it Wallace, you're getting 2.7M to focus. So do your job and shut all of us up.

[86WARD]

He wants to be paid more, yet lacks the ability to focus? Maybe steeldawg can add that to his list...lol.

That's not gonna help that wallet Mikey.

[Steeldude]

How do you lose focus when not getting the ball? This guy is a complete lazy ass. His drops aren't because of concentration. It's because he never learned the proper way to catch a football.

Again, his holdout is the best thing that could have happened. Could you imagine paying this type of person $10,000,000 a season?

[steelreserve]

Wow, he skipped a couple of steps on the big-contract diva list. You're supposed to leave for the big contract, THEN start having a disappointing year, THEN bitch about not getting the ball enough. You're doing it wrong, Mike.

[Devilsdancefloor]

youre not going to get the ball as much if you keep dropping it, sometimes people will lose faith in you and you lack of EFFORT is what bothers me the most

[Count Steeler]

I really can't see the Steelers keeping Mike now. Even 5mil might be too much. It will be interesting to see how other teams react to this. With his first couple of seasons, he should have been in line for 11-13mil, now with the last 1 1/2 seasons, he is playing to the 2.7mil. level.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt for the first part of this season, because he missed training camp. However, now this guy sounds like he would be poison to the future of this team. And that is the key Mike, TEAM first.

[NCSteeler]

My biggest grief with him is not his multiple drops, but his lack of attacking the ball in the air when he's being covered. These tend to be INTs because he waits for the ball to come to him while the DB picks it off.

[zulater]

Wallace has already turned down the Steelers best offer imo. As mediocre as he's playing this year there will still be some stupid team who will back up the Brinks truck for him. ( my guess the Redskins who have no draft choices and need to get weapons for R.G. III.)

Like it or not there's virtually no chance Wallace will be a Steeler next season. And don't give me the lip service that both sides trot out there that retaining him is a priority. Even if that was true, the Steelers have greater needs elsewhere. Keeping Keenan Lewis and getting out in front of Pouncey before his contract becomes an issue will be priority 1, and 1A as far long term contracts are concerned.

Besides I think the Steeler staff is coming to realize that Sanders is an overall greater assett than Wallace. And it's not worth keeping Sanders off the field to appease the one trick pony and his signature 9 route.

[Hindes204]

this guy pisses me off more and more each week

[Edman]

Both Mike Wallace and Rashard Mendenhall can take off in the offseason. The Steelers have been winning despite of them.

[Hindes204]

Both Mike Wallace and Rashard Mendenhall can take off in the offseason.

My guess is they both will

[GodfatherofSoul]

I can't imagine trying to stay up in a game if I was running downfield for nothing for about 2 hours in real time before getting a look. Sounds like a completely human reaction to me for a player. Just not one you expect from an elite receiver.

[Hindes204]

I can't imagine trying to stay up in a game if I was running downfield for nothing for about 2 hours in real time before getting a look. Sounds like a completely human reaction to me for a player. Just not one you expect from an elite receiver.

Every receiver wants the ball. But wanting the ball and whining about it in public are two different things

[SteelerEmpire]

Mike Wallace is having problems this year but so are all of the teams receivers. I don't know if Hines Ward's leaving has created a leadership hole or not. Heath Miller is the only one I have confidence in right now.

[zulater]

Mike Wallace is having problems this year but so are all of the teams receivers. I don't know if Hines Ward's leaving has created a leadership hole or not. Heath Miller is the only one I have confidence in right now.

I have plenty of confidence in Antonio Brown and Emanuel Sanders. I don't see an issue with either of them.

[43Hitman]

I have plenty of confidence in Antonio Brown and Emanuel Sanders. I don't see an issue with either of them.

Me too. And to your earlier point Zu, we could tag him again which I highly doubt, but it's possible. I don't think the Steeelers brass wants that headache again. Like you said though, Lewis, Pouncey and I think Sanders is at this point also, should be the Steelers' priorities this offseason. They have some big decisions to make as well about Big Snack and Harrison. Both of those guys have big numbers on the books next season.

[Steeldude]

Mike Wallace is having problems this year but so are all of the teams receivers. I don't know if Hines Ward's leaving has created a leadership hole or not. Heath Miller is the only one I have confidence in right now.

Wallace's problems are willful.

[Count Steeler]

Me too. And to your earlier point Zu, we could tag him again which I highly doubt, but it's possible. I don't think the Steeelers brass wants that headache again. Like you said though, Lewis, Pouncey and I think Sanders is at this point also, should be the Steelers' priorities this offseason. They have some big decisions to make as well about Big Snack and Harrison. Both of those guys have big numbers on the books next season.

Only way they tag him is if they have a deal with another team. I really don't see the Steelers keeping him around for another season.

[zulater]

Only way they tag him is if they have a deal with another team. I really don't see the Steelers keeping him around for another season.

Tagging him would put a lot of money onto next year's cap. You can't prorate a player playing under the franchise tag. That's a lot of money to swallow for one season. What is it for a wr anyway? About 12-14 million per?

There's a chance they could put the tag on him to extend the timeline for negotiations. But imo there's no chance in hell they'd ever allow him to sign a one year tender. So if you're Wallace's agent, knowing this, if the Steelers in fact tag him , you give it a few weeks to see if there's actual interest in a long term deal. But if you don't like the way things are going you threaten to sign the one year tender and I'll all but promise the Steelers release him from that designation the next day.

[Dwinsgames]

. We’re spreading it around, so you’re not going to get as many targets. When you get them, you have to make the best of them.”



http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/lies.gif

Wallace has more Targets than any other WR on the roster by a wide margin , and its documented so you can chose to believe him or you can believe the truth ....

[Moose]

Can't really add anything, pretty much everything I was thinking has been already said....except this guy is a complete bafoon and is 'overpaid' now for what he's doing. I just hold my breath every time the ball goes his way with a 50/50 he catches and holds onto it, which could be the reason balls don't come his way. Cya' Mick.

[Dwinsgames]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/9348/career

Wallace career stats ....

note the targets in prior years vs this year ..... 2010/2011 -99 for the entire season ... 2011/2012 - 114 for entire season .... this year 93 and counting so how the hell does he figure he is getting targeted less ????
this season through 12 games he is targeted 7,75 times per game on average at this pace that would be 124 targets for the season.....
last season his most targets of his career of 114 for 16 games he was targeted on average of 7.125 times per game

52 catches for 93 targets is not a very good ratio for a man who's game is predicated on being so fast he leaves his man in the dust



as a side note last season he had 20 more catches for the year than he currently has to date this season ( yes we have 4 more games to go ) but with those 20 more catches his total receiving yards where TWICE what he has to date this season , sure the new system has something to do with that with more shorter passes but he has had his share of deep balls this year too , he just fails to make the catch ...

so not only does he have trouble catching the ball he also has trouble doing math

[Mach1]

He's sounding more and more like another randy moss.

[86WARD]

Wallace has already turned down the Steelers best offer imo. As mediocre as he's playing this year there will still be some stupid team who will back up the Brinks truck for him. ( my guess the Redskins who have no draft choices and need to get weapons for R.G. III.)

Like it or not there's virtually no chance Wallace will be a Steeler next season. And don't give me the lip service that both sides trot out there that retaining him is a priority. Even if that was true, the Steelers have greater needs elsewhere. Keeping Keenan Lewis and getting out in front of Pouncey before his contract becomes an issue will be priority 1, and 1A as far long term contracts are concerned.

Besides I think the Steeler staff is coming to realize that Sanders is an overall greater assett than Wallace. And it's not worth keeping Sanders off the field to appease the one trick pony and his signature 9 route.

I'd be kind of surprised if it was the Redskins...that'd be a lot of coin in that receiving corps...but it's not out of the realm of Snyder.

[zulater]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers

The overall stats are pretty damning against Wallace. Except for touchdown receptions.

Despite more limited opportunities, ( as in playing time) Emanuel Sanders has 10 catches for over 20 yards as opposed to Wallace's six such catches. Antonio Brown is second on the team with 9 catches for over 20 yards, ( despite playing in 3 and 3/4 less games than anyone else) and Heath Miller is 3rd with 7 catches over 20 yards.

Some home run hitter Wallace is huh? :sarcasm:

Here's another interesting stat, despite one third less targest than Wallace and about half the snaps, Sanders is only 77 yards behind Wallace for yards receiving this season. And our tight end is only 3 yards behind Wallace.

For yards per game Antonio Brown is over 10 yards per game Wallace's superior. And that with Brown missing three quarters of the Giants game.

Lastly. First downs, which in my opinion have at least as much relevance as touchdown receptions. Wallace is a poor 4th on the team. Miller has 36, Brown has 30, Sanders 27, and Wallace a miniscule 23.

Truthfully it can be said that Wallace may not even be earning the relatively paltry 2.7 million he's making this year. Well I guess those touchdowns put him over the top. But barely in my opinion.

[Count Steeler]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/9348/career

Wallace career stats ....

note the targets in prior years vs this year ..... 2010/2011 -99 for the entire season ... 2011/2012 - 114 for entire season .... this year 93 and counting so how the hell does he figure he is getting targeted less ????


He just may have cried himself out of Pittsburgh! :cry02:

Bad attitude. "It is not my fault! It is the coaches! It is the QB!" Man up Mikey, get your head out of your ass and thank God you are playing for one of the best organizations in pro sports. Now get out there and CATCH THE DAMN BALL!!!

[SteelerFanInStl]

I really do hope that Wallace is gone next year. He's really shown his true colors this year.

[ALLD]

Wallace drops too many passes which are drive killers. I remember last season when Ward was dropping everything. You need to start already warmed up, not try and warm up during the first quarter. Now if a professional boxer went into the ring cold you know what would happen.

[Craic]

He's sounding more and more like another randy moss.

Moss said that he took plays off. Wallace said that he finds he's having problem concentrating. That doesn't mean you're taking plays off, that means you're trying to keep your head in the game, but something else (usually emotions) are interfering. That's a vast difference.

___________

I really would like to read the original interview. The way Wallace's comments were pasted, it sounds like an answer to a specific question where his answers are then cut up and inserted in various places, without the benefit of the question, or the benefit of context/the whole answer.

It's obvious the kid's having problems. That's a shame. IMO, he put himself into this position by not signing the deal that was offered to him, and then holding out. A bad decision on his part. But before we jump down his throat here, I'd like to remind everyone of the supposed "Guaranteed victory" from Anthony Smith--which was not a guarantee at all, nor the arrogant comment that the press made it out to be. Me thinks context would change the way these comments are understood by anyone who doesn't already have a set preconceived idea of the kid.

[Dwinsgames]

Moss said that he took plays off. Wallace said that he finds he's having problem concentrating. That doesn't mean you're taking plays off, that means you're trying to keep your head in the game, but something else (usually emotions) are interfering. That's a vast difference.

___________

I really would like to read the original interview. The way Wallace's comments were pasted, it sounds like an answer to a specific question where his answers are then cut up and inserted in various places, without the benefit of the question, or the benefit of context/the whole answer.

It's obvious the kid's having problems. That's a shame. IMO, he put himself into this position by not signing the deal that was offered to him, and then holding out. A bad decision on his part. But before we jump down his throat here, I'd like to remind everyone of the supposed "Guaranteed victory" from Anthony Smith--which was not a guarantee at all, nor the arrogant comment that the press made it out to be. Me thinks context would change the way these comments are understood by anyone who doesn't already have a set preconceived idea of the kid.


not to many ways to take this comment but at face value ... and it is proven BS based on FACT reading the entire thing would not change that any ...


We’re spreading it around, so you’re not going to get as many targets. When you get them, you have to make the best of them.”

that is a bold faced lie he is getting targeted at an all time high in his pro career THIS season not less like he proclaims

http://www.steeleraddicts.com/forum/images/smilies/bsflag.gif

[Animal Mother]

Both Mike Wallace and Rashard Mendenhall can take off in the offseason. The Steelers have been winning despite them.

FTFY

[silver & black]

This is disappointing news. Now, he'll probably end up a Raider............ like we need more problems. :chuckle:

[Dwinsgames]

Mike Wallace thinks he's the second coming of Jerry Rice but he's closer to the second coming of Renaldo Nehemiah ( I stole that line from a poster elsewhere but found it to be as spot on as anything I have read on the matter to date )

[primantibro1]

Mike Wallace thinks he's the second coming of Jerry Rice but he's closer to the second coming of Renaldo Nehemiah ( I stole that line from a poster elsewhere but found it to be as spot on as anything I have read on the matter to date )

Runs like Hayes, hands like Gault ...

Nehemiah - that's funny. He was fast though.

[steelreserve]

This is disappointing news. Now, he'll probably end up a Raider............ like we need more problems. :chuckle:

6 years, $400 million, and two first-round draft picks to the Patriots just for the hell of it.

Wait, I forgot Al's not running things anymore. Probably just 6 years and $350 million. And then he plays like 3 games next year and gets injured, half the next season and gets benched, then cut in the offseason over some roster bonus.

[SteelerEmpire]

If he catches a winning TD in the final seconds of a big game we'll all love him again. Wallace has been a top receiver every year except this one. Hell, the team kept Sweed, William Gay, B. Arians, etc... around longer for doing much worse. In addition, every team wishes they had a threat like Wallace. He can still out-run any defender in the league and if he catches the short pass and then is allowed to get into full stride, he's taking it to the house. It's not impossible, but I'd be surprised if the team let him go. They could have let him go this previous off-season but they didn't... that lets me know this organization "wants" to keep Wallace. We'll see what happens though...

[zulater]

If he catches a winning TD in the final seconds of a big game we'll all love him again. Wallace has been a top receiver every year except this one. Hell, the team kept Sweed, William Gay, B. Arians, etc... around longer for doing much worse. In addition, every team wishes they had a threat like Wallace. He can still out-run any defender in the league and if he catches the short pass and then is allowed to get into full stride, he's taking it to the house. It's not impossible, but I'd be surprised if the team let him go. They could have let him go this previous off-season but they didn't... that lets me know this organization "wants" to keep Wallace. We'll see what happens though...

Explain exactly how they're go to keep him?

He's going to be a free agent. They can't tender him with a transition tag this time around. Only a franchise tag designation will keep him from being a UFA. That would mean 10 million to next years cap! You can't prorate a single nickle of that to another season.

Wallace already turned down a substanstial offer from the Steelers when his leverage wasn't as great as it will be this time. He played this season with a contract he's obvioulsy not happy with. So what makes you think he'd get this close to free agency and then forego his opportunity?

As much as anything it will come down to that. Wallace is motivated more by money than he is by being a Steeler. Which is perfectly fine by me. That's his right. It's a smart business decision. And in my opinion he's going to be offered more money by another team. He and his representation know that. That's why they will force the Steelers hand and get on the open market as soon as possible.

[Dodt]

met wallace back in 2010 , he was one of the first steelers i ever got a autograph from . makes me kind of sad he turned into such a bust . makes me want to rub off his signature.

[zulater]

met wallace back in 2010 , he was one of the first steelers i ever got a autograph from . makes me kind of sad he turned into such a bust . makes me want to rub off his signature.

He's not a bust by any means. He's a very good player. One with unique skills. But he's not a superstar wr. I don't even think he's particularly close.

That said I don't think he's a bad guy either. I think he's just handled his contract situation poorly, and worse yet has let that problem affect his play.

[slippy]

wallace is NOT a bust!

steelers got incredible value for their money (rookie contract). now it's wallace's turn to get paid for what he's done in the league. how many 3rd round players are even still starting after four years let alone ready to break the bank.

good for mike, he's earned it; but i don't want to be that team that overpays someone else's great draft pick! remember, four receivers in a row were taken in that third round and wallace is the only one that was a hit.

3 82 Detroit Lions Derrick Williams WR Penn State Big Ten from Dallas[R3 - 8]
3 83 New England Patriots Brandon Tate WR North Carolina ACC from New York Jets via Green Bay [R3 - 9][R3 - 10]
3 84 Pittsburgh Steelers Mike Wallace† WR Ole Miss SEC from Chicago via Denver[R3 - 11][R3 - 12]
3 85 New York Giants Ramses Barden WR Cal Poly Great West from Philadelphia [R3 - 13]

[Dodt]

i meant bust as in he probably won't finish his career in the black and gold.

[slippy]

santonio holmes was another great steal for the steelers. he ended CIN's postseason hopes on the last play of OT 2006, had a breakout 2007, was a major player in the SB run in 2008, and was gone by 2010 ... all for a song and dance ($$$). jets overpaid for a headcase just like they foolishly overpaid for neil o'donnel.

pay sanders a decent ammount.

[Steeldude]

now it's wallace's turn to get paid for what he's done in the league

Deliberately not trying deserves how much money?

[Count Steeler]

Deliberately not trying deserves how much money?

He'll probably get 11-13mil on the open market. That is sad, I know, but such is the state of the current NFL and some teams will pay that amount.

[HollywoodSteel]

I agree with Preacher and I'm not going to skewer him too much for these quotes without seeing the exact context. I'll throw as much criticism his way for his performance as anyone else, but I'm not ready to call him a Moss or a T.O. for his attitude. He does come off as certainly ill informed about the amount of passes thrown his way, but it seems to me that he's frustrated with his own performance and trying to figure out a reason why he's having problems. He's not saying that Haley or the QBs need to be doing anything differently. His bottom line opinion is correct and not diva-ish at all - that he needs to be ready no matter how many throws he gets or when they come.

[Dwinsgames]

He'll probably get 11-13mil on the open market.


that is about what I would pay for him ...


over 5 years ! LOL

[Craic]

He's not a bust by any means. He's a very good player. One with unique skills. But he's not a superstar wr. I don't even think he's particularly close.

That said I don't think he's a bad guy either. I think he's just handled his contract situation poorly, and worse yet has let that problem affect his play.

This is exactly the way I feel. Excellent post Zu.

[Mach1]

Moss said that he took plays off. Wallace said that he finds he's having problem concentrating. That doesn't mean you're taking plays off, that means you're trying to keep your head in the game, but something else (usually emotions) are interfering. That's a vast difference.

___________

I really would like to read the original interview. The way Wallace's comments were pasted, it sounds like an answer to a specific question where his answers are then cut up and inserted in various places, without the benefit of the question, or the benefit of context/the whole answer.

It's obvious the kid's having problems. That's a shame. IMO, he put himself into this position by not signing the deal that was offered to him, and then holding out. A bad decision on his part. But before we jump down his throat here, I'd like to remind everyone of the supposed "Guaranteed victory" from Anthony Smith--which was not a guarantee at all, nor the arrogant comment that the press made it out to be. Me thinks context would change the way these comments are understood by anyone who doesn't already have a set preconceived idea of the kid.

Either way their similar. Moss took plays off if he wasn't involved and Wallace mentally checks out if he's not getting the ball every other play.

[Craic]

I went back and looked a little deeper in the stats to see why he may think that. The fact is, he's being targeted about once more per game than he was last year. The slight difference, is that the ball is being thrown three times more per game than it was last year. I don't have the numbers for this, but I think that he's also getting a few more screens this year, especially since Ward is no longer with us.

Add those two together, and he may be seeing about the same to slightly less ball thrown to him percentage wise, and is definitely seeing less balls thrown to him downfield (as opposed to WR screens). I think that could be why he has the perception he does. It doesn't make it right, nor justify anything. Just helps understand where he's coming from without defaulting to castigating him.

2011 - average 34 passes per game. 27 rush attempts.
2012 - 37 passes per game. 27 rushing attempts. 6.84

- - - Updated - - -


Either way their similar. Moss took plays off if he wasn't involved and Wallace mentally checks out if he's not getting the ball every other play.

No. He doesn't "mentally check out." That's severely reading into what he said. He said he's struggling with concentration. Inherent in that statement is that he's TRYING to concentrate, and struggling - unlike Moss he simply took the play off. There's an ocean of difference here that can't be dismissed that simply.

[Count Steeler]

Something to watch for in the San Diego game. Wallace is listed as probable with a knee injury. Wonder if he drops 1 or 2 passes, will he start rubbing his knee?

[Steeldude]

No. He doesn't "mentally check out." That's severely reading into what he said. He said he's struggling with concentration. Inherent in that statement is that he's TRYING to concentrate, and struggling - unlike Moss he simply took the play off. There's an ocean of difference here that can't be dismissed that simply.

Wallace's zero effort to catch some passes is not lack of concentration.

[Seven]

that is a bold faced lie he is getting targeted at an all time high in his pro career THIS season not less like he proclaims


Yep, I came to this thread to post that exact sentiment.

[Dwinsgames]

deep ball receivers who can't catch the deep ball anymore are worth nothing ....

[plenewken]

Give me a less potentially lethal WR who catches balls and goes to the locker room with a wet jersey any day over a lazy prima donna who's unproductive 90% of the time.

[smokin3000gt]

My jaw almost hit the floor today when I saw him reach for the football. :chuckle:

[jb500ex]

Mike Wallace thinks he's the second coming of Jerry Rice but he's closer to the second coming of Renaldo Nehemiah ( I stole that line from a poster elsewhere but found it to be as spot on as anything I have read on the matter to date )
alvin harper

[Psycho Ward 86]

wallace and brown. both of these fuckers cost us TD's today.

[Godfather]

He's a good, not great, player. As much as I would prefer to keep him, I expect Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder to overpay him, and we won't be able to justify matching the offer.

[FAB802]

He's already caught more touchdowns that Nehemiah and Alvin Harper did combined in their careers so those comparisons are ridiculous. He doesn't deserve Calvin Johnson money, but he isn't some second tier talent either. He needs to shut up and play football.

[jb500ex]

He's already caught more touchdowns that Nehemiah and Alvin Harper did combined in their careers so those comparisons are ridiculous. He doesn't deserve Calvin Johnson money, but he isn't some second tier talent either. He needs to shut up and play football.
he absolutely is a 2nd tier wr.

[Psycho Ward 86]

alvin harper


i meant bust as in he probably won't finish his career in the black and gold.

lol what in the heck is that? sometimes you just need to concede that you dont know what you're talking about.

[FAB802]

he absolutely is a 2nd tier wr.

He has scored 29 touchdowns, Andre Johnson has scored 22 in the same time frame. Is he a second tier receiver too? Larry Fitzgerald has 31. The fact is he scores all of those touchdowns without being much of a route runner. He doesn't deserve a ridiculous contract, but he does what the big money receivers do, scores touchdowns.

[Dodt]

lol what in the heck is that? sometimes you just need to concede that you dont know what you're talking about.

ok i don't know what i was talking about

[Steeldude]

He has scored 29 touchdowns, Andre Johnson has scored 22 in the same time frame. Is he a second tier receiver too? Larry Fitzgerald has 31. The fact is he scores all of those touchdowns without being much of a route runner. He doesn't deserve a ridiculous contract, but he does what the big money receivers do, scores touchdowns.

Based completely on his 40 time. He isn't worth money nor the headache that comes with it.

[steelreserve]

He has scored 29 touchdowns, Andre Johnson has scored 22 in the same time frame. Is he a second tier receiver too? Larry Fitzgerald has 31. The fact is he scores all of those touchdowns without being much of a route runner. He doesn't deserve a ridiculous contract, but he does what the big money receivers do, scores touchdowns.

How many TDs does Wallace add that we wouldn't have gotten anyway, and how many are touchdowns that someone else would've caught if there was no Wallace? My guess is he adds 2 or 3 a year from the short passes that he turns into big gains by outrunning everyone. The rest are TDs that would've been scored by the offense in general.

I don't even think a lot of those 40-yard catches are irreplaceable or unique. A lot of receivers get open for those. You don't get open for long bombs because the DB just flat can't keep up with you; or at least that's far from the only way.

[FAB802]

What difference does it make how he scores? I swear Steeler fans turn on their good players faster than any other fanbase out there. You act like that 40 time doesn't mean anything. I have news for you, it means plenty. He's having a down year and has 8 TD's. He could very well end up with 10 for the second time in three years. Do you know how many WR's have caught ten or more touchdowns in a season for the Steelers more than once in their history? Two. Lynn Swann and Hines Ward.

Here are some names of guys who have as many or more drops this year than Wallace. Victor Cruz(10), Calvin Johnson(8), Demaryius Thomas(8), Brandon Marshall(7), Reggie Wayne(7), Wes Welker(7), Julio Jones(6), Jordy Nelson(6). Wallace also had 6 going into today. Receivers drop passes.

[steelerdude15]

What difference does it make how he scores? I swear Steeler fans turn on their good players faster than any other fanbase out there. You act like that 40 time doesn't mean anything. I have news for you, it means plenty. He's having a down year and has 8 TD's. He could very well end up with 10 for the second time in three years. Do you know how many WR's have caught ten or more touchdowns in a season for the Steelers more than once in their history? Two. Lynn Swann and Hines Ward.

Here are some names of guys who have as many or more drops this year than Wallace. Victor Cruz(10), Calvin Johnson(8), Demaryius Thomas(8), Brandon Marshall(7), Reggie Wayne(7), Wes Welker(7), Julio Jones(6), Jordy Nelson(6). Wallace also had 6 going into today. Receivers drop passes.

I think that honor belongs to Philadelphia fans.

[FAB802]

There isn't that much of a difference. Every fan base has fans who want players/coaches gone after every loss. All I can speak on is the Steeler fans I see on here, or in the bar and every other message board out there.

[86WARD]

14 more receptions for a career high...

[NCSteeler]

He has scored 29 touchdowns, Andre Johnson has scored 22 in the same time frame. Is he a second tier receiver too? Larry Fitzgerald has 31. The fact is he scores all of those touchdowns without being much of a route runner. He doesn't deserve a ridiculous contract, but he does what the big money receivers do, scores touchdowns.


Well let's see in that time frame Andre Johnson is having an injury plagued 2 years, only play 20 of 32 games and Fitz??? we all know where he plays and the QB carousel that throws him the ball, hardly fair comparisons.

[Austin87]

What difference does it make how he scores? I swear Steeler fans turn on their good players faster than any other fanbase out there. You act like that 40 time doesn't mean anything. I have news for you, it means plenty. He's having a down year and has 8 TD's. He could very well end up with 10 for the second time in three years. Do you know how many WR's have caught ten or more touchdowns in a season for the Steelers more than once in their history? Two. Lynn Swann and Hines Ward.

Here are some names of guys who have as many or more drops this year than Wallace. Victor Cruz(10), Calvin Johnson(8), Demaryius Thomas(8), Brandon Marshall(7), Reggie Wayne(7), Wes Welker(7), Julio Jones(6), Jordy Nelson(6). Wallace also had 6 going into today. Receivers drop passes.

Good post!

I think Wallace makes this team better, unfortunately due salary cap problems I don't see us re-signing him. He is the only one of our WR's who actually scores TD's.

[steeldawg]

Its nice to see wallace actually getting some love, not only does he catch tds but man does the guy get open. He has had his worst year with drops but its in line with alot of the top guys. If a down year for this guy means 70 catches 900yds and 10 tds im on board.

[zulater]

Wallace was in position to make a big play for the offense early in the game with San Diego leading, 3-0, but a deep pass from Ben Roethlisberger glanced off his fingertips after he got behind cornerback Quentin Jammer near midfield.
At the very least, a reception would have changed field position. If Wallace had caught the pass and kept his feet he would have scored to give the Steelers the lead.
"I have to catch that," he said. "That's all there is to it. Ben gave me a shot and I have to come up with it."
Wallace did not leave his feet in his attempt to catch the pass.
"I was just thinking extend and try to get the ball," he said. "Maybe I should have kept pumping and running through it. I don't know. I have to watch the film. All I know is I didn't make the play."


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-left-guard-colon-likely-lost-for-rest-of-the-season-665721/#ixzz2EeIbZOif

[steeldawg]

leave his feet ??? the ball was thrown over the wrong shoulder, it was a really tough catch. Is it it a play we would like him to make, sure but a deep ball over the wrong should and off the finger tips is a pretty tough play. Lets not forget the guy did make 7 catches in this game 2 for tds and some were some tough plays with defenders in his face.

[zulater]

leave his feet ??? the ball was thrown over the wrong shoulder, it was a really tough catch. Is it it a play we would like him to make, sure but a deep ball over the wrong should and off the finger tips is a pretty tough play. Lets not forget the guy did make 7 catches in this game 2 for tds and some were some tough plays with defenders in his face.

Those were his words not mine. And great receivers adjust to the ball in the air. Lynn Swann or John Stallworth make that catch virtually every time.

[jb500ex]

He is a great garbage time player. All the top tier guys rack up their stats when the game is over Pay the
man top money and lets give timmons another raise while we're at it. Both are great

[NCSteeler]

I watch all steelers games and am completely amazed that Wallace's stats read as good as they do. I just don't see it onthe field. Yes, he makes the team better. BUT he doesn't attack he ball which often turns into picks, he OFTEN makes his most critical drops and mistakes when we really need the play . I'd resign him mostly because he's not even peaked ability yet, but I would not give the house away to do it. You want your great WRs to be the guy you look to at critical moments to make the play, seems Ben looks to Brown in those moments and then goes deep to wallace on the next play

[FAB802]

Well let's see in that time frame Andre Johnson is having an injury plagued 2 years, only play 20 of 32 games and Fitz??? we all know where he plays and the QB carousel that throws him the ball, hardly fair comparisons.

Johnson being injury prone is a factor, if he can't stay on the field in my opinion it affects his value as a player. It's unfotunate that Fitzgerald has lousy quarterbacks throwing to him right now, but he isn't the first elite receiver to have that problem. I think Wallace has some work to do on his intermediate route running and judging the ball in the air like that first long pass. Crazy thing is even with those issues he puts points on the board. If someone can get the light to go on he will be ridiculous. I'm not sure the Steelers can afford him, but make no mistake he will be missed if he leaves.

[bayz101]

Andre Johnson has multiple 200-yard games this year....how many does Wallace have in his career? Not to mention Johnson has a couple game-winning catches, one from 48 yards in overtime. I wouldn't mention Wallace anywhere near him, even if he does ride the bench.

[Psycho Ward 86]

why on earth would you be piling on wallace after that shit show of a game? brown was useless the entire game. Hell he was less than useless with his screw loosing in the endzone. they were both fucking idiots. at least wallace didnt cost us an additional score. and added 2 of his own that were both difficult snags. Brown dropped 2 HUGE should-have-been catches, failed to keep his feet in bounds on another, and got lazy on another intermediate passing route by giving up and just trying to get a flag. Brown gets a free pass for killing 3-4 promising drives? Lol. All wallace did is concede to his mistake. Why would you ever get pissed at a player for that? What do you expect him to do, deny he did anything wrong and say it was everyone elses fault? Double standards: They tell you a lot about who's passing fair judgement and who's just trying to rag the hell out of a player for several months and counting. Brown never even gets close to making the long reception. He's always several yards away from even being able to make the catch. Imagine if he held out, there would be hell to pay :lol:

Youd have to be pretty damn looney to get to the point where you WANT to see some of your own players fail just because you dislike them so much. Yeah we all get frustrated with our own players but surely we support their performance for the good of the team?

Dont let your hate for one player blind you. No one gets a free pass :)

[fansince'76]

And the "Great Wallace Debate" rages on...and on...and on...

http://catflag.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/he-keeps-going-and-going-courtesy-retrojunkie.gif

:chuckle:

[FAB802]

Do you get points for 200 yards? Name another receiver on his team. He's not sharing the field with Antonio Brown and Heath Miller. He's got Daniels who's decent when he can get on the field and a bunch of nobody's around him. I'm not saying Wallace is a better receiver, I'm saying he is important to this offense.

[43Hitman]

why on earth would you be piling on wallace after that shit show of a game? brown was useless the entire game. Hell he was less than useless with his screw loosing in the endzone. they were both fucking idiots. at least wallace didnt cost us an additional score. and added 2 of his own that were both difficult snags. Brown dropped 2 HUGE should-have-been catches, failed to keep his feet in bounds on another, and got lazy on another intermediate passing route by giving up and just trying to get a flag. Brown gets a free pass for killing 3-4 promising drives? Lol. All wallace did is concede to his mistake. Why would you ever get pissed at a player for that? What do you expect him to do, deny he did anything wrong and say it was everyone elses fault? Double standards: They tell you a lot about who's passing fair judgement and who's just trying to rag the hell out of a player for several months and counting. Brown never even gets close to making the long reception. He's always several yards away from even being able to make the catch. Imagine if he held out, there would be hell to pay :lol:

Youd have to be pretty damn looney to get to the point where you WANT to see some of your own players fail just because you dislike them so much. Yeah we all get frustrated with our own players but surely we support their performance for the good of the team?

Dont let your hate for one player blind you. No one gets a free pass :)

Amen. AB had a terrible game as well, and he was on my Goat list along with Wallace.

[Carolina Steelers]

What difference does it make how he scores? I swear Steeler fans turn on their good players faster than any other fanbase out there. You act like that 40 time doesn't mean anything. I have news for you, it means plenty. He's having a down year and has 8 TD's. He could very well end up with 10 for the second time in three years. Do you know how many WR's have caught ten or more touchdowns in a season for the Steelers more than once in their history? Two. Lynn Swann and Hines Ward.

Here are some names of guys who have as many or more drops this year than Wallace. Victor Cruz(10), Calvin Johnson(8), Demaryius Thomas(8), Brandon Marshall(7), Reggie Wayne(7), Wes Welker(7), Julio Jones(6), Jordy Nelson(6). Wallace also had 6 going into today. Receivers drop passes.

Great post

[Carolina Steelers]

I do Hate the coment he made about lack of concentration if he doesn't get ball early but it amazes me how people keep piling on him even when he had 2 tds and over 100 yards they call it garbage time I understand what your saying but the game is 60 mins so what if were up by 20 and we score again thats also garbage time. Seahawks won by 50+ yesterday so all those stats are garbage time I guess

[steelreserve]

What difference does it make how he scores? I swear Steeler fans turn on their good players faster than any other fanbase out there. You act like that 40 time doesn't mean anything. I have news for you, it means plenty. He's having a down year and has 8 TD's. He could very well end up with 10 for the second time in three years. Do you know how many WR's have caught ten or more touchdowns in a season for the Steelers more than once in their history? Two. Lynn Swann and Hines Ward.

Here are some names of guys who have as many or more drops this year than Wallace. Victor Cruz(10), Calvin Johnson(8), Demaryius Thomas(8), Brandon Marshall(7), Reggie Wayne(7), Wes Welker(7), Julio Jones(6), Jordy Nelson(6). Wallace also had 6 going into today. Receivers drop passes.

It makes plenty of difference how he scores. If the offense drives the ball to the 10 and then Wallace catches a touchdown pass, that's probably a touchdown that most receivers could've caught. In other words, production that's easily replaced. If Wallace makes a play that nobody else on the team could, then it's another story. And I see Wallace making fewer and fewer of those types of plays.

Fact is, we've been remarkably consistent in scoring about 20-25 passing touchdowns and 10-15 rushing touchdowns every year for the past 10 years, the one exception being 2007, when we had 32 passing TDs and was also the only year of single-digit rushing TDs. It hasn't mattered who the receivers are. One of them leaves or has an off year, somebody else catches those TD passes. It's mattered a lot who the quarterback is - if you go back to the Stewart/Tomczak years, we get about 10 less passing TDs across the board with only a couple more rushing TDs.

[Carolina Steelers]

This is getting ridiculous to me now where saying it makes a difference how he scores, what about ben he throws a 40 yd pass to Wallace td, then he throws a 1 yd pass to brown which pass is better? Come on a td is a td

[steelreserve]

This is getting ridiculous to me now where saying it makes a difference how he scores, what about ben he throws a 40 yd pass to Wallace td, then he throws a 1 yd pass to brown which pass is better? Come on a td is a td

see above.

[Steeldude]

Its nice to see wallace actually getting some love, not only does he catch tds but man does the guy get open. He has had his worst year with drops but its in line with alot of the top guys. If a down year for this guy means 70 catches 900yds and 10 tds im on board.

Based strictly on his 40 time only. Take his 40 time away and he is completely useless. He is easily replaced by another fast WR at a far cheaper price.


leave his feet ??? the ball was thrown over the wrong shoulder, it was a really tough catch

It's not a tough catch. Especially for someone who wants $10,000,000.


Lets not forget the guy did make 7 catches in this game 2 for tds

In garbage time

[FAB802]

Based strictly on his 40 time only. Take his 40 time away and he is completely useless. He is easily replaced by another fast WR at a far cheaper price.



It's not a tough catch. Especially for someone who wants $10,000,000.



In garbage time

Take his 40 time away? That's how you know that a person has no legitimate argument. Calvin Johnson isn't Megatron without his size. Randy Moss scored over 100 TD's predominantly with speed. What's Ben without his escapability? What was Barry Sanders without his cut on a dime ability? Those gifts separate average players from stars. You not liking it won't change it.

[Psycho Ward 86]

It makes plenty of difference how he scores. If the offense drives the ball to the 10 and then Wallace catches a touchdown pass, that's probably a touchdown that most receivers could've caught. In other words, production that's easily replaced. If Wallace makes a play that nobody else on the team could, then it's another story. And I see Wallace making fewer and fewer of those types of plays.


well then surely you'd be happy to know wallace's TD's this year have come in the form of 9-routes, fades, quick slants, and just an absurd between the knees catch in the redzone. You seriously think a receiver who can get a touchdown inside the 10 is "nothing special?" your criteria makes no sense whatsoever. He's scoring in diverse fashion this season, nothing different from years past. You arent making any sense. Both of wallace's TD's were pretty difficult and very well-covered catches. and I dont know what you're thrill is about getting 20-25 passing TD's and 10-15 rushing TD's in a season. Those are abominable and extremely pathetic numbers, especially with the absurd number of weapons we have. people dont realize all of the targets our other receivers have had on long passes and never make them because nobody talks about it. Just because he's gone doesnt mean those yards and scores he racked up will magically appear in the form of sanders and brown. You think its so easy but its not. We've sucked ass in the redzone for the longest time and losing our top scoring receiver from the past 3 seasons? Not helpful. All of our receivers bring different strengths to the table and thats why theyre all important.

The young money crew seriously needs to get their act together in the same game. for all the talk and hype, they are by far the most underperforming receiving corp in the league. By a mile. Seriously. No one comes close.

[Steeldude]

Take his 40 time away? That's how you know that a person has no legitimate argument. Calvin Johnson isn't Megatron without his size. Randy Moss scored over 100 TD's predominantly with speed. What's Ben without his escapability? What was Barry Sanders without his cut on a dime ability? Those gifts separate average players from stars. You not liking it won't change it.

Really? What does Wallace bring besides his 40 time? Straight line speed is not worth anywhere close to $10,000,000 a year.

All of the players you listed have multiple qualities while Wallace has only straight line speed. He has poor hands; poor fundamentals; he isn't big; he gives poor effort and his route running is below average also. So please, by all means, tell me what Wallace brings besides his 40 time?


Calvin Johnson isn't Megatron without his size

He can still catch and has above average fundamentals


Randy Moss scored over 100 TD's predominantly with speed

Moss has very good hands and great body control.

[steeldawg]

Really? What does Wallace bring besides his 40 time? Straight line speed is not worth anywhere close to $10,000,000 a year.

All of the players you listed have multiple qualities while Wallace has only straight line speed. He has poor hands; poor fundamentals; he isn't big; he gives poor effort and his route running is below average also. So please, by all means, tell me what Wallace brings besides his 40 time?

.


He can still catch and has above average fundamentals



Moss has very good hands and great body control.

You dont catch 70 -80 passes a season by just running in a straight line

[steeldawg]

Based strictly on his 40 time only. Take his 40 time away and he is completely useless. He is easily replaced by another fast WR at a far cheaper price.



It's not a tough catch. Especially for someone who wants $10,000,000.



In garbage time

take away his speed??? its so ridiculous, your whole arguement is take away wallaces speed and hes no good, well come back to reality we cant take his speed away, he continues to catch alot of passes and multiple tds. I think hes a better route runner than brown and sanders both, the guy gets wide open there is no denying it.

[Dwinsgames]

He has scored 29 touchdowns, Andre Johnson has scored 22 in the same time frame. Is he a second tier receiver too? Larry Fitzgerald has 31. The fact is he scores all of those touchdowns without being much of a route runner. He doesn't deserve a ridiculous contract, but he does what the big money receivers do, scores touchdowns.


the same Andre Johnson that missed 12 games of that time frame to a knee injury and the same Andre Johnson that plays in a run first offence that is very good at running the ball with a premier RB getting over 300 carries a year and last year the backup RB had nearly 1,000 yards rushing too ....


Wallace has been in a pass oriented system in comparison and not missed any significant time during that span

not a great comparison IMO ...

[steeldawg]

the same Andre Johnson that missed 12 games of that time frame to a knee injury and the same Andre Johnson that plays in a run first offence that is very good at running the ball with a premier RB getting over 300 carries a year and last year the backup RB had nearly 1,000 yards rushing too ....


Wallace has been in a pass oriented system in comparison and not missed any significant time during that span

not a great comparison IMO ...

You have to compare johsons first 3 seasons with wallaces first 3 seasons, johnson only missed 3 games in his fiirst 3 years:

Johnson 208 rec 2806 yds 12 tds

Wallace 171 rec 3206 yds 24 tds

Also this season johnson has been targeted 19 times more than wallace

Another stat:
Pittsburgh 328 rushing attempts
houston 257 rushing attempts
pittsburgh 408 passing attempts
houston 460 passing attempts

[Dwinsgames]

Also this season johnson has been targeted 19 times more than wallace



Andre Johnson has 112 targets so far THIS year ... 74 catches 1,114 yards 93 yards per game average

Mike Wallace has 104 Targets so far this year ... 59 catches 728 yards 56 yards per game average

if making a comparison please do so with correct figures so we can compare apples to apples not apples to oranges ...


Wallace
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/9348/career


Johnson
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6339/career

the true numbers speak for themselves

many would proclaim A.J has a tougher duty than Wallace too because he does not have nearly as much talent around him at WR thus he is almost always doubled and with the oppositions best CB being part of that double team .. we have seen Safties one on one vs Wallace at times this year and if you have not seen it you simply just where not paying attention


as a side note why all the misinformation in you're stats ? why not use the same stats everyone else uses ?

you claim that Houston has only 257 rushing attempts on the season when in fact Foster himself has 283 ( more than you credit the entire team with )

Tate and Forsett have another hundred or so between them ( their team site credits them for 413 rushes and 418 pass attempts )most consider that balance at the very least ....

while the Steelers team site shows 318 rushes and 483 pas plays ... most consider that a pass first scheme based on the numbers

twist the number all you like but just because you fabricate the stats does not make them the actual stats ....

*** I did not quote all your misinformation in the above post to give you a chance and fix those distorted figures and I suspect you will because you will look like a fool if you leave them as is .......

if you intend to use statistics as a basis in any argument it is always a good idea to use correct figures when doing so because you will be called out for pulling numbers out of the thin air that are fictional in order to support you're argument ...

[Psycho Ward 86]

^You're both making blind arguments because you both fail to acknowledge that there are way too many variables to account for that make your "comparisons" pitiful at best

[steeldawg]

Andre Johnson has 112 targets so far THIS year ... 74 catches 1,114 yards 93 yards per game average

Mike Wallace has 104 Targets so far this year ... 59 catches 728 yards 56 yards per game average

if making a comparison please do so with correct figures sop we can compare apples to apples not apples to oranges ...

My bad the site i looked at had him at 93 and johnson at 112 http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/2012/nfl-targets-report.cfm?pos=WR

It still doesnt change the comparison between the same points in their career, Also we do not throw the ball more than houston, so saying we are in a pass oriented offense and theirs is a run oriented is not accurate, they throw it more and we run it more its the exact opposite

[zulater]

take away his speed??? its so ridiculous, your whole arguement is take away wallaces speed and hes no good, well come back to reality we cant take his speed away, he continues to catch alot of passes and multiple tds. I think hes a better route runner than brown and sanders both, the guy gets wide open there is no denying it.

You'd get very little agreement around the league on that.

[steeldawg]

^You're both making blind arguments because you both fail to acknowledge that there are way too many variables to account for that make your "comparisons" pitiful at best

I didnt make the comparison i only pointed out if your going to compare the 2 you have to compare the same points in their career.

[steelreserve]

well then surely you'd be happy to know wallace's TD's this year have come in the form of 9-routes, fades, quick slants, and just an absurd between the knees catch in the redzone. You seriously think a receiver who can get a touchdown inside the 10 is "nothing special?" your criteria makes no sense whatsoever. He's scoring in diverse fashion this season, nothing different from years past. You arent making any sense. Both of wallace's TD's were pretty difficult and very well-covered catches. and I dont know what you're thrill is about getting 20-25 passing TD's and 10-15 rushing TD's in a season. Those are abominable and extremely pathetic numbers, especially with the absurd number of weapons we have. people dont realize all of the targets our other receivers have had on long passes and never make them because nobody talks about it. Just because he's gone doesnt mean those yards and scores he racked up will magically appear in the form of sanders and brown. You think its so easy but its not. We've sucked ass in the redzone for the longest time and losing our top scoring receiver from the past 3 seasons? Not helpful. All of our receivers bring different strengths to the table and thats why theyre all important.

The young money crew seriously needs to get their act together in the same game. for all the talk and hype, they are by far the most underperforming receiving corp in the league. By a mile. Seriously. No one comes close.

OK ... where did I say I was "thrilled" about 20-25 passing and 10-15 rushing TDs? All I'm saying is that that's what we've been getting EVERY YEAR, Wallace or no Wallace. Holmes or no Holmes. Burress or no Burress. That's what this offense produces. We're on pace for about that again. Over the course of a decade, Wallace is a blip on the radar. Why would I think everything is suddenly going to go to upside-down if one guy is or isn't here?

No, I don't think this is production that will simply disappear. Most of it will be replaced. These are NFL receivers; they're all playmakers. There are a lot of guys who can make a catch in coverage and the occasional circus catch.

Fine, let's say Wallace is going to score more often than whoever we might draft or bring in to replace him. What's the trade-off, $10M a year for 2 or 3 scores? No thanks. We'd be way better off spending the money elsewhere.

[zulater]

Mike Wallace is a very important part of remainder of our season. So is Antonio Brown and Emanuel Sanders. What comes after the season I really don't know or care at this point? But I'm not going to disparage any one of them at the moment, because I think they're all going to be major players in a successfull Steelers playoff run. This season!

So fuck this thread and this subject.

I'm going to sit back and watch them all make plays to help this team win now!

[Dwinsgames]

look again at my above post .....

better yet click here and then you can deflect and change your argument again ...

http://www.steelers.com/team/statistics.html

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/statistics.html

now do you care to tell me again who throws the ball more ???

now do you care to tell me again who runs the ball more ??

again PLEASE if your going to use stats get it right or run the risk of looking foolish

- - - Upda

we do not throw the ball more than houston, so saying we are in a pass oriented offense and theirs is a run oriented is not accurate, they throw it more and we run it more its the exact opposite

[steeldawg]

look again at my above post .....

better yet click here and then you can deflect and change your argument again ...

http://www.steelers.com/team/statistics.html

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/statistics.html

now do you care to tell me again who throws the ball more ???

now do you care to tell me again who runs the ball more ??

again PLEASE if your going to use stats get it right or run the risk of looking foolish

[COLOR=silver]- - - Upda

COLOR]

on espn it gave me defense when i clicked attempts so i gave you the oppents numbers. ok this year they run the ball more as well well as 2011 but not the case in 2010 or 2009. So in 2 of the three years wallace and johnson would be compared houston threw the ball more.

[steeldawg]

Mike Wallace is a very important part of remainder of our season. So is Antonio Brown and Emanuel Sanders. What comes after the season I really don't know or care at this point? But I'm not going to disparage any one of them at the moment, because I think they're all going to be major players in a successfull Steelers playoff run. This season!

So fuck this thread and this subject.

I'm going to sit back and watch them all make plays to help this team win now!

Hey Zu I told you he was gonna catch 2 tds

[Dwinsgames]

on espn it gave me defense when i clicked attempts so i gave you the oppents numbers. ok this year they run the ball more as well well as 2011 but not the case in 2010 or 2009. So in 2 of the three years wallace and johnson would be compared houston threw the ball more.


you again confuse me with you're post ... not going to look up your stats this time am tiring of that but you list 4 seasons now claiming 2 fit you're viewpoint and 2 do not then claim 2 out of 3 times ...

i do not know wtf you are talking about this time and am not even going to try and figure it out ... but without links to the stats I will just assume they are as correct as all the rest you posted ( none of which have been close to correct yet ) and will leave this debate because based on fact between the two of us I am the only one who has brought fact to the table and I can only take so much winning in one day without my head swelling to the point my hat no longer fits ... so for my hats sake I am out

[zulater]

Hey Zu I told you he was gonna catch 2 tds

:applaudit: Well done on your part! .

I just think it's time to step back and let the season play out and not play one Steeler against the other. We're going to need all 3 of them, plus Cotchery and Burress to get this thing to the playoffs.

[DarthSpartans20]

you again confuse me with you're post ... not going to look up your stats this time am tiring of that but you list 4 seasons now claiming 2 fit you're viewpoint and 2 do not then claim 2 out of 3 times ...

i do not know wtf you are talking about this time and am not even going to try and figure it out ... but without links to the stats I will just assume they are as correct as all the rest you posted ( none of which have been close to correct yet ) and will leave this debate because based on fact between the two of us I am the only one who has brought fact to the table and I can only take so much winning in one day without my head swelling to the point my hat no longer fits ... so for my hats sake I am out

LOL. For your hats sake.

[Psycho Ward 86]

OK ... where did I say I was "thrilled" about 20-25 passing and 10-15 rushing TDs? All I'm saying is that that's what we've been getting EVERY YEAR, Wallace or no Wallace. Holmes or no Holmes. Burress or no Burress. That's what this offense produces. We're on pace for about that again. Over the course of a decade, Wallace is a blip on the radar. Why would I think everything is suddenly going to go to upside-down if one guy is or isn't here?

No, I don't think this is production that will simply disappear. Most of it will be replaced. These are NFL receivers; they're all playmakers. There are a lot of guys who can make a catch in coverage and the occasional circus catch.

Fine, let's say Wallace is going to score more often than whoever we might draft or bring in to replace him. What's the trade-off, $10M a year for 2 or 3 scores? No thanks. We'd be way better off spending the money elsewhere.

well you certainly seem to imply that you feel satisfactory with that kind of production. Why would you go back 10 years with this 20-25 passing TD's, 10-15 rushing TD pattern of yours? Thats inexplicably ignoring all of the monumental rule changes that have happened that have made the game so much easier for the offense than ever before. The scoring production is horrible. Many of these rules come after we've kicked burress and holmes to the curve so your point is completely moot. You risk taking away Big Ben's TOP WEAPONS the past 3 years while he's entering his prime. wtf do you think is going to happen. Someone is going to step up and match or exceed the production? We've been forced to wish for that all season from nearly every position and look how thats going. Yes, you're right "these are nfl receivers," but no, they are not all playmakers. Thats a huge false generalization. If Sanders is the reason why youre confidence looms high if we lose wallace, im not sure where that confidence is coming from because the nfl isnt a plug-and-play league. You take drafted talent for granted. Wallace made us forget all about Santonio when these boards were up in flames about him being traded for a 5th round pick. But thats one incident of us being successful at drafting a replacement. One incident DOES NOT make a pattern. Even Wallace was far more productive than sanders before he replaced santonio. And where on earth did you get the notion that were going to get 2 or 3 additional scores from paying 10 million dollars? You do realize he has many more touchdown receptions than that compared to the rest of the entire receiving corp combined? And those scores have come in diverse fashion too, so this 40-time and one trick pony crap isnt gonna fly. Brown and Sanders have proven highly effective in this offense, but they havent shown anybody anything to prove that they can score once were inside the 20. Absolutely nothing. Anyone is going to have a hard time disputing that.

Oh by the way, this is in a DOWN year that he's doing these things. Everyone else on the other hand is or was on their way to having their finest year and still arent doing quite everything wallace is doing...in a DOWN year.

Call me crazy but imo, other than the defense, Big Ben carries this team. And he's playing at his best, and we all know its not going to last long. So we better pounce on the opportunity to arm Ben to the max or that long superbowl drought from decades ago might loom large again

[steeldawg]

you again confuse me with you're post ... not going to look up your stats this time am tiring of that but you list 4 seasons now claiming 2 fit you're viewpoint and 2 do not then claim 2 out of 3 times ...

i do not know wtf you are talking about this time and am not even going to try and figure it out ... but without links to the stats I will just assume they are as correct as all the rest you posted ( none of which have been close to correct yet ) and will leave this debate because based on fact between the two of us I am the only one who has brought fact to the table and I can only take so much winning in one day without my head swelling to the point my hat no longer fits ... so for my hats sake I am out

wallaces 3 seasons 09 10 11 houston has thrown the ball more than us in 2 of the 3, this year they are throwing the ball less than us, you were right.

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well you certainly seem to imply that you feel satisfactory with that kind of production. Why would you go back 10 years with this 20-25 passing TD's, 10-15 rushing TD pattern of yours? Thats inexplicably ignoring all of the monumental rule changes that have happened that have made the game so much easier for the offense than ever before. The scoring production is horrible. Many of these rules come after we've kicked burress and holmes to the curve so your point is completely moot. You risk taking away Big Ben's TOP WEAPONS the past 3 years while he's entering his prime. wtf do you think is going to happen. Someone is going to step up and match or exceed the production? We've been forced to wish for that all season from nearly every position and look how thats going. Yes, you're right "these are nfl receivers," but no, they are not all playmakers. Thats a huge false generalization. If Sanders is the reason why youre confidence looms high if we lose wallace, im not sure where that confidence is coming from because the nfl isnt a plug-and-play league. You take drafted talent for granted. Wallace made us forget all about Santonio when these boards were up in flames about him being traded for a 5th round pick. But thats one incident of us being successful at drafting a replacement. One incident DOES NOT make a pattern. Even Wallace was far more productive than sanders before he replaced santonio. And where on earth did you get the notion that were going to get 2 or 3 additional scores from paying 10 million dollars? You do realize he has many more touchdown receptions than that compared to the rest of the entire receiving corp combined? And those scores have come in diverse fashion too, so this 40-time and one trick pony crap isnt gonna fly. Brown and Sanders have proven highly effective in this offense, but they havent shown anybody anything to prove that they can score once were inside the 20. Absolutely nothing. Anyone is going to have a hard time disputing that.

Oh by the way, this is in a DOWN year that he's doing these things. Everyone else on the other hand is or was on their way to having their finest year and still arent doing quite everything wallace is doing...in a DOWN year.

Call me crazy but imo, other than the defense, Big Ben carries this team. And he's playing at his best, and we all know its not going to last long. So we better pounce on the opportunity to arm Ben to the max or that long superbowl drought from decades ago might loom large again

Well said.

[steelreserve]

well you certainly seem to imply that you feel satisfactory with that kind of production. Why would you go back 10 years with this 20-25 passing TD's, 10-15 rushing TD pattern of yours?

It has nothing to do with feeling like it's good or bad. The stats are the stats. No one receiver has made us much better or worse at scoring touchdowns. I went back a decade so that you could see there was an overwhelming amount of evidence for that.


Thats inexplicably ignoring all of the monumental rule changes that have happened that have made the game so much easier for the offense than ever before. The scoring production is horrible. Many of these rules come after we've kicked burress and holmes to the curve so your point is completely moot.

Actually, since all these rule changes came in after Burress and Holmes were gone, that makes YOUR point completely moot. We ought to be scoring MORE touchdowns now, right? And the stats of our current receivers should be inflated, right? So the fact that they aren't kind of goes against the argument of Wallace (or any of our WRs) being super valuable.



... anyway. I completely get the idea of providing Ben with the right weapons, I just don't think spending $20M+ on three receivers is going to work out for us. Then it'll be straight back to having problems with the O-Line or the secondary when we don't have enough cash to re-sign guys like Lewis or Pouncey. Maybe it would be Sanders or Brown who would take up the slack for Wallace, maybe it would be somebody else. But the slack always gets taken up. Holmes wasn't "proven" when Burress left; Wallace wasn't "proven" when Holmes left. We seem to find a way to at least stop from regressing. Frankly, given the way some of these guys have performed after leaving the Steelers (particularly Santonio), I'd guess that a good QB makes more difference to their production than the other way around. So forgive me if I'm not crazy about blowing a sixth of our salary cap on a place that appears to make about 5% of the difference.

[NCSteeler]

And the "Great Wallace Debate" rages on...and on...and on...

http://catflag.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/he-keeps-going-and-going-courtesy-retrojunkie.gif

:chuckle:


Substitute "Willie Parker" "minus the long runs" blah blah blah, LOL

[Psycho Ward 86]

It has nothing to do with feeling like it's good or bad. The stats are the stats. No one receiver has made us much better or worse at scoring touchdowns. I went back a decade so that you could see there was an overwhelming amount of evidence for that.



Actually, since all these rule changes came in after Burress and Holmes were gone, that makes YOUR point completely moot. We ought to be scoring MORE touchdowns now, right? And the stats of our current receivers should be inflated, right? So the fact that they aren't kind of goes against the argument of Wallace (or any of our WRs) being super valuable.



... anyway. I completely get the idea of providing Ben with the right weapons, I just don't think spending $20M+ on three receivers is going to work out for us. Then it'll be straight back to having problems with the O-Line or the secondary when we don't have enough cash to re-sign guys like Lewis or Pouncey. Maybe it would be Sanders or Brown who would take up the slack for Wallace, maybe it would be somebody else. But the slack always gets taken up. Holmes wasn't "proven" when Burress left; Wallace wasn't "proven" when Holmes left. We seem to find a way to at least stop from regressing. Frankly, given the way some of these guys have performed after leaving the Steelers (particularly Santonio), I'd guess that a good QB makes more difference to their production than the other way around. So forgive me if I'm not crazy about blowing a sixth of our salary cap on a place that appears to make about 5% of the difference.

holmes was far better than sanders was right now before he took over for burress. Even then, it took him several years before he actually played with starting-quality. Wallace was also far better than sanders right before he took over for holmes. Neither holmes nor wallace were "proven" before they replaced their formers, but they showed far more than sanders has, and sanders has had more time than both of them to prove himself. Depends on what kind of production you're looking for from your #1/#2 I suppose. Hypothetical questions to ask oneself: Did i find santonio holmes' production as a starter above the line? Did i find mike wallace's production as a starter above the line? If the answer is no, you have a much less promising prospect about to take over sooner than later. And no, my point isnt moot because if were scoring at such miniscule levels now, how bad do you think its going to get without our biggest scoring weapon? Lol, better??? Doubt it. Probably worse, or at best, production would "stay the same," as you seem to be assuming. But how could anyone be ok with how much were scoring currently? We are clearly underachieving big time. Youve explained quite thoroughly how you anticipate wallace is going to be replaced, but even you dont seem confident in that scenario seeing how "Maybe it would be Sanders or Brown who would take up the slack for Wallace, maybe it would be somebody else."

[steeldawg]

It has nothing to do with feeling like it's good or bad. The stats are the stats. No one receiver has made us much better or worse at scoring touchdowns. I went back a decade so that you could see there was an overwhelming amount of evidence for that.



Actually, since all these rule changes came in after Burress and Holmes were gone, that makes YOUR point completely moot. We ought to be scoring MORE touchdowns now, right? And the stats of our current receivers should be inflated, right? So the fact that they aren't kind of goes against the argument of Wallace (or any of our WRs) being super valuable.



... anyway. I completely get the idea of providing Ben with the right weapons, I just don't think spending $20M+ on three receivers is going to work out for us. Then it'll be straight back to having problems with the O-Line or the secondary when we don't have enough cash to re-sign guys like Lewis or Pouncey. Maybe it would be Sanders or Brown who would take up the slack for Wallace, maybe it would be somebody else. But the slack always gets taken up. Holmes wasn't "proven" when Burress left; Wallace wasn't "proven" when Holmes left. We seem to find a way to at least stop from regressing. Frankly, given the way some of these guys have performed after leaving the Steelers (particularly Santonio), I'd guess that a good QB makes more difference to their production than the other way around. So forgive me if I'm not crazy about blowing a sixth of our salary cap on a place that appears to make about 5% of the difference.

Touchdowns are valuable and so are guys who score them. Santonio holmes didnt do much because he went to the jets and sanchez is horrible, burress actually was better when he left he turned out to be really good, thats ben always wanted him back. What your saying is we can put anyone at receiver despite their talent level and they will put up wallaces numbers but that just not true. Ive posted many times that the numbers wallace put up through his first 3 seasons, only 2 receivers in nfl history put up better numbers in their first 3 years and that was jerry rice and randy moss thats pretty impressive company. You just dont do that in pro football unless your really good.

[steelreserve]

holmes was far better than sanders was right now before he took over for burress. Even then, it took him several years before he actually played with starting-quality. Wallace was also far better than sanders right before he took over for holmes. Neither holmes nor wallace were "proven" before they replaced their formers, but they showed far more than sanders has, and sanders has had more time than both of them to prove himself. Depends on what kind of production you're looking for from your #1/#2 I suppose. Hypothetical questions to ask oneself: Did i find santonio holmes' production as a starter above the line? Did i find mike wallace's production as a starter above the line? If the answer is no, you have a much less promising prospect about to take over sooner than later. And no, my point isnt moot because if were scoring at such miniscule levels now, how bad do you think its going to get without our biggest scoring weapon? Lol, better??? Doubt it. Probably worse, or at best, production would "stay the same," as you seem to be assuming. But how could anyone be ok with how much were scoring currently? We are clearly underachieving big time. Youve explained quite thoroughly how you anticipate wallace is going to be replaced, but even you dont seem confident in that scenario seeing how "Maybe it would be Sanders or Brown who would take up the slack for Wallace, maybe it would be somebody else."

Holmes wasn't even on the TEAM until two years after Burress left. The year in between, we won the Super Bowl with Ward, Randle El and Cedrick Wilson, ba-durr. I guess we're not going to agree on this, but I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

As for Burress and Holmes' divergent career paths after leaving the Steelers - that only reinforces the importance of a good QB. Burress went to another team with at least a respectable passer, and he kept doing well. Holmes went to a team with Mark Sanchez and sucked. Hell, Larry Fitzgerald is a middle-of-the-pack receiver this year with no QB. Ben probably has a lot more to do with the success of Wallace (or anyone else) than most people realize.

[steeldawg]

Holmes wasn't even on the TEAM until two years after Burress left. The year in between, we won the Super Bowl with Ward, Randle El and Cedrick Wilson, ba-durr. I guess we're not going to agree on this, but I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

As for Burress and Holmes' divergent career paths after leaving the Steelers - that only reinforces the importance of a good QB. Burress went to another team with at least a respectable passer, and he kept doing well. Holmes went to a team with Mark Sanchez and sucked. Hell, Larry Fitzgerald is a middle-of-the-pack receiver this year with no QB. Ben probably has a lot more to do with the success of Wallace (or anyone else) than most people realize.

ward had 11 tds in that superbowl season 2005

[Psycho Ward 86]

Ben probably has a lot more to do with the success of Wallace (or anyone else) than most people realize.

Yeah thats a given i suppose. I just dont to live to see the day where Ben has a great year but falls just short of a superbowl win because he was great, but couldve been a little better with some help

[Steeldude]

take away his speed??? its so ridiculous, your whole arguement is take away wallaces speed and hes no good, well come back to reality we cant take his speed away, he continues to catch alot of passes and multiple tds. I think hes a better route runner than brown and sanders both, the guy gets wide open there is no denying it.

Why is it ridiculous? You are determining what a player brings in terms of how much you should pay him. Your entire outlook on Wallace is based purely on personal feelings, not logic. You say it's not his job to fight for passes. You say fundamentals are not important. You say the only thing he brings is a 40 time. Again, why not replace him with an WR who can run fast? It would be cheaper


he continues to catch alot of passes and multiple tds

Again, I explained this before in another thread. The more targets the more catches/stats.

You are probably thinking his TDs in garbage time are something to throw big money at. Where was he during the middle of the game? Oh that's right, he let another pass clang off his poor hands.

A better route runner than Brown or Sanders? Do you watch the games or just look at the box score in Monday's sports page?


despite their talent level and they will put up wallaces numbers but that just not true

Look at every WR with 100 or more targets. What do you see?

Why do you want to give big money to a WR who deliberately doesn't try?

[steeldawg]

Why is it ridiculous? You are determining what a player brings in terms of how much you should pay him. Your entire outlook on Wallace is based purely on personal feelings, not logic. You say it's not his job to fight for passes. You say fundamentals are not important. You say the only thing he brings is a 40 time. Again, why not replace him with an WR who can run fast? It would be cheaper



Again, I explained this before in another thread. The more targets the more catches/stats.

You are probably thinking his TDs in garbage time are something to throw big money at. Where was he during the middle of the game? Oh that's right, he let another pass clang off his poor hands.

A better route runner than Brown or Sanders? Do you watch the games or just look at the box score in Monday's sports page?



Look at every WR with 100 or more targets. What do you see?

Why do you want to give big money to a WR who deliberately doesn't try?

You cant take away his speed its what makes him special!!!! My arguement is not based on personal feelings lol, its based on prooduction. Seriously he caught a td in the third and the fourth both where tough catches, he also had a total of 7 catches in that game your just reaching for any reason to bash him. you can make the arguement more targets more stats but again first three years only guy since moss and rice to have those numbers through their first 3 years and there have been alott of guys who have had over 100 targets. doesnt try?? he looked like the only receiver on the field on sunday.

[steeldawg]

Why is it ridiculous? You are determining what a player brings in terms of how much you should pay him. Your entire outlook on Wallace is based purely on personal feelings, not logic. You say it's not his job to fight for passes. You say fundamentals are not important. You say the only thing he brings is a 40 time. Again, why not replace him with an WR who can run fast? It would be cheaper



Again, I explained this before in another thread. The more targets the more catches/stats.

You are probably thinking his TDs in garbage time are something to throw big money at. Where was he during the middle of the game? Oh that's right, he let another pass clang off his poor hands.

A better route runner than Brown or Sanders? Do you watch the games or just look at the box score in Monday's sports page?



Look at every WR with 100 or more targets. What do you see?

Why do you want to give big money to a WR who deliberately doesn't try?

also i didnt say it wasnt his job to fight for the ball i sais when hes got the defender beat by ten yards why should he have to. Fundamentals are only important to a degree, but again talent trumps fundamentals. Also your completely ignoring the different ways wallace has caught tds this seaon, his game is very diverse. your whole arguement is just plug in a fast guy and you will get the same production, thats is like telling the lions just get rid of johnson you can get a big guy much cheaper. I dont need to argue with you the stats tell the story. You can talk about the ball he didnt catch but that was a very tough play, i notice you didnt mention 2 balls dropped by brown 1 he didnt get is feet in and miller dropped a td cotchery also with a drop. Somehow wallace gets the venom because he didnt make a great catch and the 7 catches 112yds and 2 tds he caught are somehow the stat line of the guy who doesnt try!

[tube517]

Substitute "Willie Parker" "minus the long runs" blah blah blah, LOL

:chuckle:

[86WARD]

Welcome to the club...lol.

Lets hope the team gets hot and makes a run.

[NJarhead]

Screw co-starting him. I think Tomlin should bench him for the first half this Sunday. He's earned it. He's a great player, but something's going on with him and he needs to figure it out. In order to do that, he needs the incentive and motivation. IMO, a little humble pie could help him with that.

[86WARD]

Welcome to the club...lol.

Lets hope the team gets hot and makes a run.

[FAB802]

Screw co-starting him. I think Tomlin should bench him for the first half this Sunday. He's earned it. He's a great player, but something's going on with him and he needs to figure it out. In order to do that, he needs the incentive and motivation. IMO, a little humble pie could help him with that.

You want to bench a starter for a half in a must win game to send a message? Is he benching the OL after that last debacle, or the non existant pass rushers too? They didn't breathe on Rivers and he was playing behind the third string of his OL. How about tired after two carries Dwyer for being out of shape this deep into a season? He scored two touchdowns and he deserves to be benched? Unbelievable.

[Steeldude]

also i didnt say it wasnt his job to fight for the ball i sais when hes got the defender beat by ten yards why should he have to. Fundamentals are only important to a degree, but again talent trumps fundamentals. Also your completely ignoring the different ways wallace has caught tds this seaon, his game is very diverse. your whole arguement is just plug in a fast guy and you will get the same production, thats is like telling the lions just get rid of johnson you can get a big guy much cheaper. I dont need to argue with you the stats tell the story. You can talk about the ball he didnt catch but that was a very tough play, i notice you didnt mention 2 balls dropped by brown 1 he didnt get is feet in and miller dropped a td cotchery also with a drop. Somehow wallace gets the venom because he didnt make a great catch and the 7 catches 112yds and 2 tds he caught are somehow the stat line of the guy who doesnt try!

Then why are you completely incapable of listing what Wallace brings besides his 40 time?


when hes got the defender beat by ten yards why should he have to

Because that's his job. He being paid to catch the ball. Why would you want a WR who doesn't fight for every pass?


Somehow wallace gets the venom because he didnt make a great catch

He should make that catch 9 out of 10 times. It wasn't difficult. The ball hit him in both hands.


7 catches 112yds and 2 tds he caught are somehow the stat line of the guy who doesnt try

Your excuse is garbage time stats. Just amazing. If he didn't get those garbage time stats you would drum up another excuse to give him $10,000,000 a season.


i notice you didnt mention 2 balls dropped by brown

Because we are talking about Wallace. Do you think I am like you where I dismiss certain players from their errors? Brown sucked. He should have easily caught those passes. He should feel like crap all weak for his poor performance. If he keeps playing like that then he should be let go.


there have been alott of guys who have had over 100 targets. doesnt try

So it's ok if he doesn't try because other WRs have done the same? :huh: Would Wallace's stats be the same if his targets were reduced?


Why do you want to give big money to a WR who deliberately doesn't try? <--- You failed to answer

[Carolina Steelers]

You want to bench a starter for a half in a must win game to send a message? Is he benching the OL after that last debacle, or the non existant pass rushers too? They didn't breathe on Rivers and he was playing behind the third string of his OL. How about tired after two carries Dwyer for being out of shape this deep into a season? He scored two touchdowns and he deserves to be benched? Unbelievable.

I agree!! just amazing bench your WR to send a message to him in the middle of playoff push without him your chances go down start burress instead

[NJarhead]

You want to bench a starter for a half in a must win game to send a message? Is he benching the OL after that last debacle, or the non existant pass rushers too? They didn't breathe on Rivers and he was playing behind the third string of his OL. How about tired after two carries Dwyer for being out of shape this deep into a season? He scored two touchdowns and he deserves to be benched? Unbelievable.

You're talking about one game. I'm talking about the last straw. What good is he if Ben throws to him and he drops it? Not much good I would say. So yes, I am saying to bench a starter. He scored in garbage time.

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I agree!! just amazing bench your WR to send a message to him in the middle of playoff push without him your chances go down start burress instead

Again, he's no good to us if he can't make plays. He's capable, but he's not delivering when it counts. Why do you think Tomlin made him a "co-starter?"

[X-Terminator]

You're talking about one game. I'm talking about the last straw. What good is he if Ben throws to him and he drops it? Not much good I would say. So yes, I am saying to bench a starter. He scored in garbage time.

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Again, he's no good to us if he can't make plays. He's capable, but he's not delivering when it counts. Why do you think Tomlin made him a "co-starter?"

If Tomlin does that, in a game they have to win, the criticism he will get will be nothing compared to what he's gotten the last 2 days.

[Carolina Steelers]

You're talking about one game. I'm talking about the last straw. What good is he if Ben throws to him and he drops it? Not much good I would say. So yes, I am saying to bench a starter. He scored in garbage time.

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Again, he's no good to us if he can't make plays. He's capable, but he's not delivering when it counts. Why do you think Tomlin made him a "co-starter?"

Co start and bench for an entire 1st half are 2 different things I don't mind the co start to make a point and if you notice when he was co starter he was our there for 1st series but bench for an entire half you will get nothing from him the rest of game IMO

[NJarhead]

If Tomlin does that, in a game they have to win, the criticism he will get will be nothing compared to what he's gotten the last 2 days.

I don't care about that stuff. I doubt he does either.

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Co start and bench for an entire 1st half are 2 different things I don't mind the co start to make a point and if you notice when he was co starter he was our there for 1st series but bench for an entire half you will get nothing from him the rest of game IMO

I understand. But if he's useless anyway....is my point.

[FAB802]

Some of you don't know how good you have it with this group as a unit. What message does it send to the rest of the team that he's willing to risk the playoff's for a message that doesn't even work with high school kids? Ooh, sit down while everyone else plays and you still get paid.

[NJarhead]

Some of you don't know how good you have it with this group as a unit. What message does it send to the rest of the team that he's willing to risk the playoff's for a message that doesn't even work with high school kids? Ooh, sit down while everyone else plays and you still get paid.
We are talking about professional athletes, not high school kids. These guys DO care about playing and how they're viewed by their peers. Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but this group has been under achieving and Wallace is the biggest culprit.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Screw co-starting him. I think Tomlin should bench him for the first half this Sunday. He's earned it. He's a great player, but something's going on with him and he needs to figure it out. In order to do that, he needs the incentive and motivation. IMO, a little humble pie could help him with that.

lol this isnt high school football

[Dwinsgames]

lol this isnt high school football


then they need to stop playing like it ..............

[NJarhead]

lol this isnt high school football

No shit.

Players get benched in the NFL for not performing.

[Psycho Ward 86]

No shit.

Players get benched in the NFL for not performing.

brown singlehandedly killed 4 drives by himself on sunday with 2 drops on drag routes, empty effort trying to get a flag, and poor field awareness on an out route. Oh yeah, and he scored a beautiful touchdown. For the other team.

What are you going to do with a benched wallace and an extremely shaky antonio brown (since coming off his high ankle sprain, which destroys what he does since his game is predicated on short space quickness)? Watch plaxico and sanders tear shit up? lol..

This isnt high school. The backups are backups for a reason.

[NJarhead]

brown singlehandedly killed 4 drives by himself on sunday with 2 drops on drag routes, empty effort trying to get a flag, and poor field awareness on an out route. Oh yeah, and he scored a beautiful touchdown. For the other team.

What are you going to do with a benched wallace and an extremely shaky antonio brown (since coming off his high ankle sprain, which destroys what he does since his game is predicated on short space quickness)? Watch plaxico and sanders tear shit up? lol..

This isnt high school. The backups are backups for a reason.

Again, one game is not what I'm measuring. Stop bringing up high school. Maybe you should go find out how Ike Taylor felt about being benched by Cowher. NFL players sit when they don't perform. This is a fact. Wallace has admitted to losing focus. He's had 5 key drops in 6 games. What's the point of throwing to an open WR if he's not going to catch it? What's the point of starting a WR who continues to drop balls in big spots? High school football has nothing to do with any of this.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Again, one game is not what I'm measuring. Stop bringing up high school. Maybe you should go find out how Ike Taylor felt about being benched by Cowher. NFL players sit when they don't perform. This is a fact. Wallace has admitted to losing focus. He's had 5 key drops in 6 games. What's the point of throwing to an open WR if he's not going to catch it? What's the point of starting a WR who continues to drop balls in big spots? High school football has nothing to do with any of this.

we were 2-6 when ike was benched with a near impossible chance of making the playoffs. Were 7-6 and in a situation where we HAVE TO win at least 2 games out of 3 including the bengals, all games that will be insanely tough to win even if we were 100% healthy. Now is not the time to send players to the naughty corner. This is the absolute wrong time for petulance. The situations are extraordinarily different.

You fail to acknowledge how brown is doing as of late and wallace as of late. Why arent you talking about how brown has been doing lately? Isnt there so much to talk about in that area? You also fail to acknowledge the great increase in the number of deep passes Ben is attempting, NOT just to wallace. Thats where wallace is at his best. Brown isnt playing healthy, and if you take that into account along with wiping out our best deep threat? Well, it aint gonna be pretty because you seem to take the cowboys, bengals, and browns extremely lightly if you think victory is attainable by taking more players out.

You're right. high school football has nothing to do with any of this. That's why i said this isnt high school. Theres more disparity in talent in the nfl between the starters and backups. Were gonna need to be armed to the teeth to even have a chance at beating these teams.

[FAB802]

We are talking about professional athletes, not high school kids. These guys DO care about playing and how they're viewed by their peers. Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but this group has been under achieving and Wallace is the biggest culprit.

That culprit has caught 8 touchdowns this year. Heath is next with 7. I drove my behind all the way to Nashville to watch that debacle and haven't missed a game. He is the least of their problems on offense. He cares if he's benched, but at this point in the season if the coaching staff doesn't have a handle on how to get the best out of them when will they?

The line sucked Sunday yet they tried repeatedly to cram the ball up the middle against a bottom seven pass defense. The one RB who sometimes looks good can't stay on the field more than two plays because he's tapping out. That takes real effort doesn't it? Wallace needs to work on his route running and adjuting to errant throws in the air. Those can be taught. 4.3 cannot. Where you get that he isn't trying is beyond me. EVERY receiver drops passes.

[Psycho Ward 86]

The one RB who sometimes looks good can't stay on the field more than two plays because he's tapping out.

to be fair, dwyer got 24 of his 32 yards after contact according to steelers depot. Boy oh boy where did that nasty blocking in the bengals, giants, and redskins game go? Hope Decastro can get it going again if he plays a lot of snaps

[steeldawg]

People actually want wallace benched for the upcoming game??? unreal bench our top scorer in a must win game!! I dont get the hes not trying thing either, he is out there with no contract, one wrong hit could end his career and hes still hasnt missed a game, has he dropped some balls, sure but its going to happen, this guy is our best wideout he deserves to be on the field and im sure if you asked big ben if he wants wallace on the field his answer would be without a doubt yesssssss!!

[zulater]

People actually want wallace benched for the upcoming game??? unreal bench our top scorer in a must win game!! I dont get the hes not trying thing either, he is out there with no contract, one wrong hit could end his career and hes still hasnt missed a game, has he dropped some balls, sure but its going to happen, this guy is our best wideout he deserves to be on the field and im sure if you asked big ben if he wants wallace on the field his answer would be without a doubt yesssssss!!

I agree with you on everything but what I highlighted. When our best wr was out Wallace rarely was open.

[zulater]

brown singlehandedly killed 4 drives by himself on sunday with 2 drops on drag routes, empty effort trying to get a flag, and poor field awareness on an out route. Oh yeah, and he scored a beautiful touchdown. For the other team.

What are you going to do with a benched wallace and an extremely shaky antonio brown (since coming off his high ankle sprain, which destroys what he does since his game is predicated on short space quickness)? Watch plaxico and sanders tear shit up? lol..

This isnt high school. The backups are backups for a reason.

That's garbage and you know it.

Antonio was one of 11 guys on the field that play. He didn't call it. He didn't throw it. The ball didn't doink his backside. Yeah he should have kicked the ball out of bounds or fell on the ball for the safety. But guess what, had he picked up that ball successfully and run it to the line of scrimmage or beyond who here is condemning him? I've seen Ben make some suspect decisions before. The game's moving at a rapid rate out there. Sometimes you fuck up when things go off script.

Antonio doesn't look to be 100% recovered from his high ankle sprain yet. Given that his game is out manuevering opponents in dense traffic, not a shock. One thing should be apparent to those who know what they're watching. His return has bought space for his fellow receivers. Even when Ben was healthy in Kansas City he was having trouble finding anyone open. Who was missing? 84.

[HollywoodSteel]

I'm not one of those people that holds one tiny thing against Wallace for his offseason activities. I might not think he handled everything in the smartest possible way, but hey, handle your business as you see fit... just catch the damn ball. Now, I don't want him to be benched. He brings more to the table than he takes away and I don't want to cut off our nose to spit our face. But here's what I'd like to see from the kid -- after a game with a crucial drop like that last one, I want him to go find Tomlin after the game and say that was unacceptable on part. I need to be better, tell me what to do coach. I've already decide that I am going to be the last one who leaves practice every day this week. I'm gonna have one of our QBs toss me hundred hard to catch balls that I can only bring in with my hands, and if I catch 99 in a row and I drop the next one, I'm starting over. I'm going to run every route a hundred times with a receivers coach watching me and if I don't do everything right down to my toenails, then I start over from one. My mind and body will be so well trained come game time that focus or no focus, I will be incapable of making a mistake... my mind and body just won't know how to do that. And if I do make a mistake in the next game, then this last week will look like a drunken stroll on a Maui beach compared to my practice next week. I have all the physical tools to be perfect, so this is my pledge -- I will be so perfect that Jerry Rice will come to me and ask me how I do it. So what do you think, coach? Anything else you want to add to that, because I am more than willing to do whatever it takes.

[Psycho Ward 86]

That's garbage and you know it.

Antonio was one of 11 guys on the field that play. He didn't call it. He didn't throw it. The ball didn't doink his backside. Yeah he should have kicked the ball out of bounds or fell on the ball for the safety. But guess what, had he picked up that ball successfully and run it to the line of scrimmage or beyond who here is condemning him? I've seen Ben make some suspect decisions before. The game's moving at a rapid rate out there. Sometimes you fuck up when things go off script.

Antonio doesn't look to be 100% recovered from his high ankle sprain yet. Given that his game is out manuevering opponents in dense traffic, not a shock. One thing should be apparent to those who know what they're watching. His return has bought space for his fellow receivers. Even when Ben was healthy in Kansas City he was having trouble finding anyone open. Who was missing? 84.

no its not garbage. there were 11 guys on the field and only one that couldve saved the play and brown didnt deliver. IF he had picked up the ball and run it back. But he didnt. Well if were going to give people free passes for making suspect decisions sometimes, we better give them to everyone. But thats not how the blame game works. He messed up and played his worst game of the year by far at the most inopportune time.

Of course he isnt 100%. I acknowledged that. It is not his fault that hes not going to be 100% all season. Injuries happen and i dont expect him to play at the same level. That doesnt mean im not going to be hard on him, he's the #1 cog in this offense and if he's not doing his job obviously people are going to be righteously pissed. Of course everyone was more open. You seem to think i dont like brown when i do. More than wallace actually. I just dont like it when people rain criticism for certain players for the smallest things because theyre bitter (not saying thats you at all) while other players just get a free pass all the time for making monumental mistakes.

And also, anyone out there giving brown a pass for playing with a high ankle sprain i hope you gave redman a pass for every game he's suited up for because he's done exactly the same.

[BlountForceTrauma]

I'm a big time Wallace basher I will readily admit. But it doesn't have anything to do with the contract stuff. I strictly feel like it's all about what he does on the field. He is the most targeted receiver on the team. Yet he has the most drops on the team. He can't run a route. His hands are apparently allergic to the football. He doesn't turn defender on badly thrown balls. He doesn't catch it at its highest point. Most of his big time supporters point to times past to try and get people to cut him some slack. But the fact of the NFL is that it's a what have you done for me lately league and Wallace has CERTAINLY not done anything for us lately. Yes he took one to the house against the gnats but that was a rarity. How many other balls has he caught in the middle of the field and then basically laid down to avoid contact? Also I know he had a good game against SD but I don't think they were playing him as hard because I honestly feel like they felt like they had our number. Wallace fumbles approx. 1 our of every 44 times he touches the football. That's not good. I just don't feel that he is a complete enough player to warrant a pay day like what he is asking. Honestly I don't even think he is worth what AB is getting. AB helps in other phases of the game besides just deep routes. We know Wallace can't maintain his kind of speed forever. So once that's gone what will his value be?

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no its not garbage. there were 11 guys on the field and only one that couldve saved the play and brown didnt deliver. IF he had picked up the ball and run it back. But he didnt. Well if were going to give people free passes for making suspect decisions sometimes, we better give them to everyone. But thats not how the blame game works. He messed up and played his worst game of the year by far at the most inopportune time.

Of course he isnt 100%. I acknowledged that. It is not his fault that hes not going to be 100% all season. Injuries happen and i dont expect him to play at the same level. That doesnt mean im not going to be hard on him, he's the #1 cog in this offense and if he's not doing his job obviously people are going to be righteously pissed. Of course everyone was more open. You seem to think i dont like brown when i do. More than wallace actually. I just dont like it when people rain criticism for certain players for the smallest things because theyre bitter (not saying thats you at all) while other players just get a free pass all the time for making monumental mistakes.

And also, anyone out there giving brown a pass for playing with a high ankle sprain i hope you gave redman a pass for every game he's suited up for because he's done exactly the same.
One reason I was actually GLAD he DIDN'T kick it out of bounds is because did we REALLY wanna give them 2 points PLUS another possession to march it down the field on Victorian, Allen, and Brown? I suppose that's one way of thinking about it. Or maybe AB realized what the rest of us realized which is that it was actually a bad call. Although if you don't hear the whistle you need to keep playing.

[Craic]

to be fair, dwyer got 24 of his 32 yards after contact according to steelers depot. Boy oh boy where did that nasty blocking in the bengals, giants, and redskins game go? Hope Decastro can get it going again if he plays a lot of snaps

It's sitting on the bench, injured. That's what Colon and Adams brought to this line.

[steeldawg]

I
I'm a big time Wallace basher I will readily admit. But it doesn't have anything to do with the contract stuff. I strictly feel like it's all about what he does on the field. He is the most targeted receiver on the team. Yet he has the most drops on the team. He can't run a route. His hands are apparently allergic to the football. He doesn't turn defender on badly thrown balls. He doesn't catch it at its highest point. Most of his big time supporters point to times past to try and get people to cut him some slack. But the fact of the NFL is that it's a what have you done for me lately league and Wallace has CERTAINLY not done anything for us lately. Yes he took one to the house against the gnats but that was a rarity. How many other balls has he caught in the middle of the field and then basically laid down to avoid contact? Also I know he had a good game against SD but I don't think they were playing him as hard because I honestly feel like they felt like they had our number. Wallace fumbles approx. 1 our of every 44 times he touches the football. That's not good. I just don't feel that he is a complete enough player to warrant a pay day like what he is asking. Honestly I don't even think he is worth what AB is getting. AB helps in other phases of the game besides just deep routes. We know Wallace can't maintain his kind of speed forever. So once that's gone what will his value be?

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One reason I was actually GLAD he DIDN'T kick it out of bounds is because did we REALLY wanna give them 2 points PLUS another possession to march it down the field on Victorian, Allen, and Brown? I suppose that's one way of thinking about it. Or maybe AB realized what the rest of us realized which is that it was actually a bad call. Although if you don't hear the whistle you need to keep playing.

How can you make a what have you done for me lately arguement, when wallace is the top wideout on the team, last game he had 112 7 cayches 2 tds and brown dropped 2 didnt get his feet in bounds didnt play to the whistle. If your going to talk about what have you done for me lately then you should be looking at antonio brown who by the way is the one whos getting paid.

[Dwinsgames]

I

antonio brown who by the way is the one whos getting paid.


so Wallace is doing it for free ??? gee I did not realize that ...

if you want to complain about Browns contract blame Wallace he got offered the money first and turned it down ...

but hey never let the facts get in the way of you're argument

[Steeldude]

also i didnt say it wasnt his job to fight for the ball i sais when hes got the defender beat by ten yards why should he have to. Fundamentals are only important to a degree, but again talent trumps fundamentals. Also your completely ignoring the different ways wallace has caught tds this seaon, his game is very diverse. your whole arguement is just plug in a fast guy and you will get the same production, thats is like telling the lions just get rid of johnson you can get a big guy much cheaper. I dont need to argue with you the stats tell the story. You can talk about the ball he didnt catch but that was a very tough play, i notice you didnt mention 2 balls dropped by brown 1 he didnt get is feet in and miller dropped a td cotchery also with a drop. Somehow wallace gets the venom because he didnt make a great catch and the 7 catches 112yds and 2 tds he caught are somehow the stat line of the guy who doesnt try!

Then why are you completely incapable of listing what Wallace brings besides his 40 time?


when hes got the defender beat by ten yards why should he have to

Because that's his job. He being paid to catch the ball. Why would you want a WR who doesn't fight for every pass?


Somehow wallace gets the venom because he didnt make a great catch

He should make that catch 9 out of 10 times. It wasn't difficult. The ball hit him in both hands.


7 catches 112yds and 2 tds he caught are somehow the stat line of the guy who doesnt try

Your excuse is garbage time stats. Just amazing. If he didn't get those garbage time stats you would drum up another excuse to give him $10,000,000 a season.


i notice you didnt mention 2 balls dropped by brown

Because we are talking about Wallace. Do you think I am like you where I dismiss certain players from their errors? Brown sucked. He should have easily caught those passes. He should feel like crap all weak for his poor performance. If he keeps playing like that then he should be let go.


there have been alott of guys who have had over 100 targets. doesnt try

So it's ok if he doesn't try because other WRs have done the same? :huh: Would Wallace's stats be the same if his targets were reduced?


Why do you want to give big money to a WR who deliberately doesn't try? <--- You failed to answer

[NJarhead]

we were 2-6 when ike was benched with a near impossible chance of making the playoffs. Were 7-6 and in a situation where we HAVE TO win at least 2 games out of 3 including the bengals, all games that will be insanely tough to win even if we were 100% healthy. Now is not the time to send players to the naughty corner. This is the absolute wrong time for petulance. The situations are extraordinarily different.

You fail to acknowledge how brown is doing as of late and wallace as of late. Why arent you talking about how brown has been doing lately? Isnt there so much to talk about in that area? You also fail to acknowledge the great increase in the number of deep passes Ben is attempting, NOT just to wallace. Thats where wallace is at his best. Brown isnt playing healthy, and if you take that into account along with wiping out our best deep threat? Well, it aint gonna be pretty because you seem to take the cowboys, bengals, and browns extremely lightly if you think victory is attainable by taking more players out.

You're right. high school football has nothing to do with any of this. That's why i said this isnt high school. Theres more disparity in talent in the nfl between the starters and backups. Were gonna need to be armed to the teeth to even have a chance at beating these teams.

My point is that it happens and Ike was better for it. I'm sure there's an article you can read about how it made him feel.

I'm not attacking Brown because he was injured and his performance has not been as lacking as that of Wallace. Again, you'll find plenty of articles about Wallace underacheiving this year. Not so much for Brown.

Deep threat? Can he get deep? Sure! Can he catch the pass if Ben gets it to him? Not so much in 2012. Also, if Ben under throws him, is he going to fight to break it up? Not from what I've seen. So, his value as a deep threat recently has dropped some. I'm well aware of the must win situation the Steelers are in. You are assuming Wallace is going to show up in all three games and turn it around suddenly and maby that will be the case, but Tomlin's already acknowledged that he doesn't deserve to be the #1 starter due to his performance. Well, in light of his most recent "loss of focus" I'm expanding on that. I'm not saying to sit him for the whole game. I'm saying sit him for a qtr or a half. He's admitted to losing focus. Have you ever been a leader? I have. Maybe not a football coach, but there again, this has been affective for coaches and players in the NFL.

[Dwinsgames]

When asked about his lesser-talented doppleganger, Mike Wallace (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71118/mike-wallace), Swann wasn't short on (fair) criticism. Speaking in reference to a pass from quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/1630/ben-roethlisberger) that slipped through his hands, creating a chorus of boos that could have been heard outside the stadium, Swann, who was in attendance for the Steelers' recent 34-24 loss to San Diego, said, "It's a tough catch, I think fans who may have booed are probably thinking 'boy, he's done this a lot this year.' No receiver likes to drop the ball, he has some capability and talent, but my general opinion, if you think you're good enough to hold out, that is a catch he needs to make. If he wants to make the kind of money the big time NFL receivers make, he needs to make that play."
Lynn Swann
.

[43Hitman]

Its the Kordell era all over again.

[Steeldude]

When asked about his lesser-talented doppleganger, Mike Wallace, Swann wasn't short on (fair) criticism. Speaking in reference to a pass from quarterback Ben Roethlisberger that slipped through his hands, creating a chorus of boos that could have been heard outside the stadium, Swann, who was in attendance for the Steelers' recent 34-24 loss to San Diego, said, "It's a tough catch, I think fans who may have booed are probably thinking 'boy, he's done this a lot this year.' No receiver likes to drop the ball, he has some capability and talent, but my general opinion, if you think you're good enough to hold out, that is a catch he needs to make. If he wants to make the kind of money the big time NFL receivers make, he needs to make that play."
Lynn Swann

That's ok because he caught some passes in garbage time.

[BlountForceTrauma]

I

How can you make a what have you done for me lately arguement, when wallace is the top wideout on the team, last game he had 112 7 cayches 2 tds and brown dropped 2 didnt get his feet in bounds didnt play to the whistle. If your going to talk about what have you done for me lately then you should be looking at antonio brown who by the way is the one whos getting paid.

I understand that. But here's how I make an argument for what have you done for me lately. AB got his pay day immediately AFTER a season of 1,000 yds receiving AND 1,000 yds returning. Wallace had a good FIRST half of the season but then faded. THIS year Wallace is the most targeted WR on the team. He also has the most drops. The game he had against SD was a lot of garbage yards, catches, AND td's. AB had a garbage TD also. That game was never close. Mike Tomlin even said after the game we never "proved that we could stop them". I'm not saying that I'm not glad Wallace caught those td's and maybe it will help his confidence going forward. I'm just saying that the Rooney's will have a lot to discuss with him when it comes to him wanting to hold up the team for money. Yes AB has had some issues this year too. The fumble in Oakland comes to mind. But the feeling I, and I think most people get, from AB is that he's giving you his all on every play. He also got booed this weekend if you remember. I think another reason people get so mad at Wallace is we feel he sort of insults us by asking for so much money when we can clearly see with our own eyes that he's not worth it. AB took what was offered him. If you can't live comfortably for the rest of your life on $50 million you have problems FAR beyond not being able to catch good.

[steeldawg]

I understand that. But here's how I make an argument for what have you done for me lately. AB got his pay day immediately AFTER a season of 1,000 yds receiving AND 1,000 yds returning. Wallace had a good FIRST half of the season but then faded. THIS year Wallace is the most targeted WR on the team. He also has the most drops. The game he had against SD was a lot of garbage yards, catches, AND td's. AB had a garbage TD also. That game was never close. Mike Tomlin even said after the game we never "proved that we could stop them". I'm not saying that I'm not glad Wallace caught those td's and maybe it will help his confidence going forward. I'm just saying that the Rooney's will have a lot to discuss with him when it comes to him wanting to hold up the team for money. Yes AB has had some issues this year too. The fumble in Oakland comes to mind. But the feeling I, and I think most people get, from AB is that he's giving you his all on every play. He also got booed this weekend if you remember. I think another reason people get so mad at Wallace is we feel he sort of insults us by asking for so much money when we can clearly see with our own eyes that he's not worth it. AB took what was offered him. If you can't live comfortably for the rest of your life on $50 million you have problems FAR beyond not being able to catch good.

well wallace had 3 good years and working on a fourth, and if he is the most targeted receiver chances are he will have the most drops i think that only makes sense. Why should him asking for a contract in line with other receivers hes put up better numbers than be insulting to the steelers. Wallace has 6 drops its not even near tops in the league and if you look at the guys at the top of the drops list its guys who are targeted alot . Im sorry i dont look at the guy whos the teams leading receiver, the guy who has played in every game and think hes not trying. the game was not over in that game when wallace caught those tds, you can say its garbage if you want but one of the tds was caught in the 3rd quarter, and the last one was caught in between 2 defenders in the endzone a very good catch. I dont care if people think ab is giving his all, this is pro football you get paid to produce not just try hard. Compare wallaces first 3 seasons against the first three seasons of any nfl receiver, you will only find 2 that outperformed him and thats jerry rice and randy moss, thats 3 years of work right there and in a year that people are calling a down year 59 728 8 tds with 3 games to go. This guy is a weapon hes very important to our offense more important than antonio brown and when its time to put the ball in the endzone big ben is going wallace or miller.

[steeldawg]

Everyone keeps saying hes got to make that catch if he wants big money, but he has made that catch many times he just didnt make that one.

[Dwinsgames]

Wallace has 6 drops its not even near tops in the league


here we go with these phantom stats again ...

I have not checked this stat but EVERY stat you post that I have checked (and there have been many ) are all wrong every last one of them ... ( and I know damn well he has 20 drops if he has 1 this year or he is paying the official statistician to pad his numbers )

please refrain from posting stats unless you can post them correctly

[steeldawg]

here we go with these phantom stats again ...

I have not checked this stat but EVERY stat you post that I have checked (and there have been many ) are all wrong every last one of them ... ( and I know damn well he has 20 drops if he has 1 this year or he is paying the official statistician to pad his numbers )

please refrain from posting stats unless you can post them correctly

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&type=receiving&rank=232

Obviously they define drops differently than the average fan does. He had 4 drops against the Bengals alone.

[Dwinsgames]

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&type=receiving&rank=232

Obviously they define drops differently than the average fan does. He had 4 drops against the Bengals alone.


laughable , what is the criteria for them to consider it a drop ?

My criteria is this ... if the ball hits the hands you dam well ought to catch it and if you do not it is a drop ... Wallace has a BUNCH of them , he had 3 in a couple games 4 in another already he is over their mark ....

[steeldawg]

laughable , what is the criteria for them to consider it a drop ?

My criteria is this ... if the ball hits the hands you dam well ought to catch it and if you do not it is a drop ... Wallace has a BUNCH of them , he had 3 in a couple games 4 in another already he is over their mark ....

well regardless of your criteria that stat is still the stat.

[Steeldude]

laughable , what is the criteria for them to consider it a drop ?

My criteria is this ... if the ball hits the hands you dam well ought to catch it and if you do not it is a drop ... Wallace has a BUNCH of them , he had 3 in a couple games 4 in another already he is over their mark ....

Basically, the NFL's criteria for dropping a pass is to be all alone and standing still. Steeldawg knows Wallace has far more drops than 6. Owens would drop about 20 or more passes a year, but he stat line would say about 6 drops for the season.

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Everyone keeps saying hes got to make that catch if he wants big money, but he has made that catch many times he just didnt make that one.

It's called consistency. This is his contract year and he blatantly doesn't try on some passes. How do you think he is going to do if given big money?

Each time you come up with an excuse to protect Wallace it gets shot down by facts.

Why do you want to pay $10,000,000 to a WR who doesn't try?