Players at the end of the line in B&G

[Dwinsgames]

here is a list of guys who I think either

A) have seen their better days

B) are no longer worthy of the contract they hold

C) are in the last year of their current deals and won't be back ....



1) Hampton , age and loss of dominance at a pos that requires you to dominate couple that with UFA status for 2013 I believe this could be his last Rodeo in Pittsburgh

2) Mendy , contract is up at seasons end and his recent demotion coupled with lack of production and health and our cap situation he will be toting the rock elsewhere in 2013

3) Wallace , end of his rookie deal , turned down an offer by the Steelers for an extension , drop in productivity , effort , to many drops ... he will be gone

4) Mundy , has proved he is not worthy of a backup job on this team and he will be replaced because of it

5) Pope , signed a 1 year deal and that will be the extent of his stay , David Johnson will return in 2013 and battle for the FB pos and like Will Johnson both have pos flexibility to also be the 3rd TE I think we keep 2 FBs in 2013 that both can double at TE if need be

6) Batch , his era has passed we need to get younger at the backup QB pos .

7 ) Leftwich , see Batch ....


From this point on it goes from without question they are gone to it could happen ........

8) Troy ... lets face it he is not getting any younger he will be 32 next year , his contract is not cheap and in the last 7 seasons he has logged 16 games just twice , the way he plays the game and his current age suggests his ability to stay healthy will continue to be an issue , can the Steelers afford that kind of cap hit for limited games played moving forward ?

9) Will Allen he will stay if Troy goes but doubt they keep both considering they need room for youth and he will be 31 next season and I believe a FA and the play he put on tape this year will make him more valuable on the open market

10) Larry Foote final year of his deal and he also is on the wrong side of 30 will be 33 next year they may keep him if they do not think Spence will be able to return to form or do not draft a high round prospect in the next draft ( or get lucky and pick up a guy like McClain )


Lots of roster changes could be ahead for the 2013 version of the Pittsburgh Steelers who if I am correct will go from one of the oldest teams in the league to one of the youngest in just a 2 year time frame of Retooling .....


mind you this is only my opinion and your entitled to disagree if you so desire http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/pimp.gif

[HollywoodSteel]

mind you this is only my opinion and your entitled to disagree if you so desire http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/pimp.gif

But if you do, you should really remember to wear your cup.

J/K, D. :grin:

[Dwinsgames]

But if you do, you should really remember to wear your cup.

J/K, D. :grin:

http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/guru.gif

[Seven]

Don't see why they wouldn't keep Casey and Will Allen. Neither guy is going to cost more than they are worth and both have played well this season. Even if we let McLendon and Ta'amu have more playing time we'll still need a veteran backup in my opinion. And I see no reason they couldn't keep both Polamalu and Allen. Even if we draft a safety high the Steelers don't play traditional FS/SS roles. These guys are interchangeable more or less in coach LeBeau's scheme. So Clark, Allen, Troy and a rookie should all fit into the roster.

[Moose]

I pretty much agree with the most. My problem is with the Troy issue. He's such an all out player and I don't know if he could tone his play down. Harrison has toned his play down considerably, but he's still an issue on the line that the other player's have to deal with. But in Troy's situation, if he isn't 'flying' all over the field how much of an issue is he ? I, personally think he will make a decision on his own. I don't think Troy is the type of player to be satisfied sitting on the sideline 10 or more games a season and not be able to contribute, and he is definitely getting injury prone.

[Psycho Ward 86]

no harrison? Just cutting harrison and hampton alone is an absurd amount of cap space we would be saving.

[Dwinsgames]

Don't see why they wouldn't keep Casey and Will Allen. Neither guy is going to cost more than they are worth and both have played well this season. Even if we let McLendon and Ta'amu have more playing time we'll still need a veteran backup in my opinion. And I see no reason they couldn't keep both Polamalu and Allen. Even if we draft a safety high the Steelers don't play traditional FS/SS roles. These guys are interchangeable more or less in coach LeBeau's scheme. So Clark, Allen, Troy and a rookie should all fit into the roster.


Troys 2013 cap hit is $10,387,500 way to much for a player who can not stay on the field
Will Allen UFA
Hampton UFA ( 35 YEARS OLD )

here easier this way ....

2013 PLAYERS UNDER CONTRACT:

Player
Base
Bonus
Cap Hit


Ben Roethlisberger
11,600,000
8,995,000
20,595,000


Lamarr Woodley
9,000,000
4,240,000
13,240,000


Lawrence Timmons
5,375,000
5,785,000
11,160,000


Troy Polamalu
7,500,000
2,887,500
10,387,500


James Harrison
6,570,000
3,465,000
10,035,000


Ike Taylor
6,000,000
3,454,166
9,454,166


Heath Miller
5,162,000
2,796,500
7,958,500


Willie Colon
5,500,000
2,150,000
7,650,000


Antonio Brown
2,000,000
4,200,000
6,200,000


Ryan Clark
3,500,000
1,250,000
4,750,000


Brett Keisel
2,825,000
1,675,000
4,500,000


Maukice Pouncey
977,250
1,550,625
2,527,875


Ziggy Hood
660,000
1,775,860
2,435,860


Cameron Heyward
984,548
844,096
1,828,644


David Decastro
754,177
1,030,500
1,784,677


Shaun Suisham
1,425,000
337,500
1,762,500


Jerricho Cotchery
1,000,000
500,000
1,500,000


Jason Worilds
630,000
355,000
985,000


Mike Adams
254,300
623,950
878,250


Marcus Gilbert
555,000
211,802
766,802


Sean Spence
555,000
180,000
785,000


Curtis Brown
555,000
130,300
685,300


Cortez Allen
555,000
97,875
652,875


Chris Carter
555,000
40,700
595,700


Alameda Ta'amu
480,000
108,328
588,328


Al Woods
575,000
0
575,000


Baron Batch
555,000
11,628
566,628








Chris Rainey
480,000
45,250
525,250


Kelvin Beachum
480,000
11,474
491,474


David Paulson
480,000
11,474
491,474


Drew Butler
480,000
0
480,000


Robert Golden
480,000
0
480,000


Will Johnson
480,000
0
480,000


Adrian Robinson
480,000
0
480,000


Total: 128 Million and change
6 players account for over 60% of the cap. Just 35 players under contract they are already around $7 million over the projected 2013 cap of $121 million. if they offer tenders to all of their Restricted Free Agents ( and they will )


RFA TAGS

and these are lower round tenders on Dwyer and Sanders than I truly anticipate as we see them upping production and playing time at this point this season



Jon Dwyer

1,300,000
1,300,000
RFA


Steve McClendon

1,300,000
1,300,000
RFA


Isaac Redman

1,300,000
1,300,000
RFA


Emmanuel Sanders

2,000,000
2,000,000
RFA


Stevenson Sylvester

1,300,000
1,300,000
RFA


Demarcus Van Dyke

1,300,000
1,300,000
RFA


Total: 136 almost 137 million


That is WAY over the projected 2013 cap limits ...

and that does not even take into effect our rookie pool of 2013 or the fact that many key role players will be UFA such as .....



Ramon Foster
Doug Legersky
Keenan Lewis
Max Starks
Greg Warren
David Johnson
Larry Foote is they decide to keep him

some people got to go , others will have to restructure ......


http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/edit.gif

lots of edits due to poor typing skills yes your now reading the fine print haha

[steelreserve]

I think that list is exactly right, though I could see them bringing back:

a) Hampton if Ta'amu is in jail and he takes less money
b) Foote if we don't have anyone better at ILB (and right now we don't)

I think they keep Allen in any case - a backup who's competent enough that the defense actually works even when Troy's gone is beyond priceless for us. I think we may also see Cotchery be a cap casualty if we draft a receiver, depending on how much of his salary we'd save and how much would be dead money. His production has not been good this year even in his limited playing time.

[cold-hard-steel]

Hampton is having good year, what the hell are you talkin about. Don't be cuttin on the big snack. Might be a long time till we get a player like him. He held the middle for a long time. He is still makin plays today!!!!! Bite the big one bro!!!!!

[Mojouw]

I agree with most of what has been posted here. I do think that major restructuring for some veterans may change the picture. Looking at the chart posted earlier, there is room for some Omar Khan cap magic. Everyone above Willie Colon on that chart will likely be asked to restructure or convert one type of cash to another to make room under the cap. I think that ensures that Troy and Harrison are on the roster for at least 2 more years. Foote stays as well. He already left and didn't like it. I think he comes back at the vet minimum. Hampton stays as well, again at a massively reduced salary. He has looked far better lately as he has played himself into shape after a major injury. I bet you can squeeze one more year outta the big guy.

I also think that both Mendenhall and Dwyer come back. Dwyer at a RFA tender kinda deal, I really don't see there being much of a demand for a RB that is just a guy. There are several backs identical to Dwyer on the market every year. No one gives up a draft pick to get him. Mendy comes back on a "prove it deal". RB's are fungible, Mendenhall has no leverage to get big dollars on an open market. Sign the guy who knows the system and it leaves one more draft pick to address other areas of need -- like the old folks home that is the safety situation!

Also -- can the team go back and cut Mundy retroactively to this season? Dude is basically stealing at this point!

[cold-hard-steel]

I feel sorry for you,having an all pro nose tackle in a 3/4 defense. Shows you how much defense has changed. Or should i say defence? get off of it dude !!!!!

[cold-hard-steel]

You think big snack is gone? Think about the defensive game plan. Just one time if you would. Bite da big one!!!!!!

[cold-hard-steel]

If you don't realize what goes on in an elite nfl program,maybe you should be a brodcast journalist. Casey,are you for real ? He is all pro and making plays he has not made for ever. I'd like to put him on you one on one. ?

[cold-hard-steel]

Mostly i like to argue the offensive line. But , if you call out any player on the defense especially big snack , then you could have a problem from here on out. Just start the team from Steagles from here on out.
Wow!!!!

[cold-hard-steel]

I'm sorry for the Steagles remark. We have some time to go before this whole thing plays out. Big Snack, give me a break. He is playin some goood ball. I hope we get healthy before the deadline!

[Animal Mother]

The Steelers are 6-5 with an outside shot at the playoffs and a HUGE game coming up this Sunday against the Ravens and a thread is posted about who is going to be back in 2013? Did I accidentally get on a Chiefs forum?

[Dwinsgames]

@cold-hard-steel (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/member.php/244-cold-hard-steel) http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/wtf.gif spam the shit out of the thread with nonsense saying basically the same thing every time and not directing it toward no one specific .....

are you drunk ???

http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/hitsfan.gif

[Dwinsgames]

The Steelers are 6-5 with an outside shot at the playoffs and a HUGE game coming up this Sunday against the Ravens and a thread is posted about who is going to be back in 2013? Did I accidentally get on a Chiefs forum?


nope you just came into a thread that looks beyond the now , most AVERAGE fans do not have a clue about the cap situation and are always bitching we never sign nobody in FA but always seem to let someone go ....

sorry we where trying to be informative ....

if it does not appeal to you , you always have the option to simply click to the next thread

or start one of the many threads about how much you want to resign Wallace and what you feel he is worth or not worth ..

or maybe one about why we no longer have block letters ?

or why don't we have cheerleaders ?

or why we have a logo on just one side of the helmet ??

or how you hate the bumblebee uni's from 1934 or or or ????????



http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/ontopic.gif

[Count Steeler]

It's going to be another tough off season in Steelers' land. Some old trusted vets will be let go (again) and we will try to restock via draft and the odd pickup.

Hampton has picked up his game, but he was a liability for the first half of the season. Can't have that on a consistent basis.

Harrison is picking up steam, so let's see how he finishes the year, but he is a big cap hit.

Troy is a tough one. I'd rather see him retire and want to spend more time with his family than to get cut. He really should take a big pay cut if he wants to stick around.

They should just restructure Ben and renew his contract. Sign for 6 more years and load the contract starting in 2014. The cap is supposed to go up significantly in 2014.

Wallace, bye, bye. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

Woodley and Timmons are sizable cap hits as well. Khan, you have your work cut out for you.

[salamander]

The Steelers are 6-5 with an outside shot at the playoffs and a HUGE game coming up this Sunday against the Ravens and a thread is posted about who is going to be back in 2013? Did I accidentally get on a Chiefs forum?

Doesn't mean we can't discuss it. It's still something looming in the future.

[Heinz Hitman]

Good post, D. I agree with pretty much every guy on your list.

Mendy and Wallace just don't perform up to standards anymore and will sign elsewhere. Some poor team will overpay Wallace, but not this one.

Hampton was good back in the day, but he is old and can't cut it on a consistent basis anymore. We have needed to draft a replacement for him the last couple drafts, but really I think we already have him on the roster (McClendon). When Casey is getting successfully blocked by one lineman on a consistent basis then it is time to move on.

And who says we don't have cheerleaders? Troy is the highest paid cheerleader in the league! Dude is great when he is on the field, but he misses more games than he plays. If he can't play the games then he is just killing cap room that could be used for somebody useful.

I would have much rather had Wes Saunders on the roster than Leonard Pope, but I understand why they kept Pope (cap hit). I won't be upset if he isn't re-signed.

And for some reason I bet we at least keep one of our old-ass back-up QBs, but I am hoping they are both gone come next year. Would be great to pick up a younger backup for once. Alex Smith or Colt McCoy would be some decent backups if their current teams end up not wanting them.

And who let Hampton's girlfriend in on this thread?! Geez, get a room! lol

Easy - just a little joke. :rofl2:

[Count Steeler]

As a side note, could be the swan song for LeBeau. I also wonder if Haley comes under consideration for another HC job, would he take it? I think he is pretty happy being in Pittsburgh, but you never know.

Oh, and good bye Mendy.

[Dwinsgames]

As a side note, could be the swan song for LeBeau. I also wonder if Haley comes under consideration for another HC job, would he take it? I think he is pretty happy being in Pittsburgh, but you never know.

Oh, and good bye Mendy.


you could be right about Lebeau , when a man reaches his age no telling when he may say enough is enough , but for some reason ( right or wrong ) I just can not picture him ever hanging them up unless illness strikes ... I see him dying in Latrobe on some hot summer 2 a day around 2016 or so ...

I hope he never retires as long as he can consistently field a def that is competitive

[43Hitman]

While not a player I think Lebeau may be at the end of the line for the B&G as well. I was really hard on him earlier this season, and rightfully so imo. Since then the defense has done a 180 and is playing much better, however the fact still remains that he will be gone soon and our personnel may also reflect that changing of the guard in the upper ranks. So guys like McLendon and Heyward are must keeps. I really think we will have some tough decisions to make at LB, S, and DL. Gonna be a very interesting next couple of years thats for sure.

- - - Updated - - -


As a side note, could be the swan song for LeBeau. I also wonder if Haley comes under consideration for another HC job, would he take it? I think he is pretty happy being in Pittsburgh, but you never know.

Oh, and good bye Mendy.

Shoot sorry Count, didn't see this post before I made mine. :doh: thats what I get for not reading the entire thread.

[Count Steeler]

Shoot sorry Count, didn't see this post before I made mine. :doh: thats what I get for not reading the entire thread.

No harm, no foul. You know, great minds... :drink:

[BlastFurnace]

I know he won't be cut, but, by far, the biggest waste of cap space on this team is Lamar Woodley. They guy had one thing he did well, and he doesn't do that well any longer because he's always hurt. Even when healthy, he's average against the run, doesn't set the edge, gets single blocked by TE's and RT's, and is horrible when sent out into coverage. He's not half the linebacker that Harrison is, but gets paid more.

[43Hitman]

No harm, no foul. You know, great minds... :drink:

lol I was doing well until I ran into cold-hard-steel's post and my eyes just kinda glazed over the rest. :chuckle: I still have no idea who that rant was directed at.

[steelreserve]

I know he won't be cut, but, by far, the biggest waste of cap space on this team is Lamar Woodley. They guy had one thing he did well, and he doesn't do that well any longer because he's always hurt. Even when healthy, he's average against the run, doesn't set the edge, gets single blocked by TE's and RT's, and is horrible when sent out into coverage. He's not half the linebacker that Harrison is, but gets paid more.

I've got to agree, he's producing nowhere NEAR what we need from him, especially for the amount we're paying. Missing over a third of the games the past couple of years, single-digit sacks, and the most tackles he's had in the past three seasons is 35 (!). In fact, his numbers the past three years are pretty comparable to what Clark Haggans put up over his last three seasons here:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WoodLa99.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HaggCl20.htm

Would you pay an average of $10M a year for that? Neither would I. And don't get me started with "oh, the stats aren't everything, you're just a hater." No. His presence on the field hasn't been any more noticeable than Haggans' either. Teams can run at him with success, and block him with success in the pass rush if they're willing to commit an offensive lineman or a good-blocking TE to do so. I also don't see the explosiveness of past years. In other words, he's been playing like an average to pretty-good linebacker, not the best defender on the team, which is what we need.

Thing is, his cap number is only in the $4M-$5M range this year, which tells me in a year or two it'll be more like $12M or $14M, given the overall size of his contract. That's when the shit's going to hit the fan and the Woodley haters may get their wish.

I'm usually not what you'd call a Woodley basher, by the way. I was all in favor of doing whatever it took to keep him around, but there's been a noticeable drop-off that you'd have to be a fool not to notice. Heck, for all the people who don't want to pay Wallace because it's not wise to spend $10M on a "one trick pony," Woodley could be the best cautionary example there is.

[Steeldude]

I know he won't be cut, but, by far, the biggest waste of cap space on this team is Lamar Woodley. They guy had one thing he did well, and he doesn't do that well any longer because he's always hurt. Even when healthy, he's average against the run, doesn't set the edge, gets single blocked by TE's and RT's, and is horrible when sent out into coverage. He's not half the linebacker that Harrison is, but gets paid more.

I think most know my stance on this :thumbsup:

But IMO, he has always been like this. I would never say he is a horrible LB, but he isn't worth $13 million a year

[GodfatherofSoul]

5 games ago I was ready to cut Hampton, but he's really stepped it up lately.

[GBMelBlount]

I think Troy's reckless style has caught up with him.

Unless he took a huge pay cut I am not sure he is worth keeping.

I am also not sure we see a dramatic difference with him out anymore.

One my favorite Steelers players of all time.

[Count Steeler]

It seems Mundy was the problem back there. Maybe he was trying too hard, but he wasn't keeping to his assignments. Look at the difference Allen has made.

[SteelGhost]

Nice thread D. thanks for bringing some reality check for the future of the B & G :thumbsup:

I think Allen is a most keep player for the next couple of seasons IMHO. The LB corps must be reloaded, right now our best player is Timmons, I'm not sure if someone can step up if Woodley and Deebo don't get healthy and play a full season and Foote :scratchchin:

[HollywoodSteel]

Great post, Dwins. It's interesting to see the numbers laid out like this. I didn't realize what a bargain Pouncey is, even if he is still on a rookie contract. And man, that Ben Roethlisberger character is a pricey one. If we just cut him we could easily afford to re-sign Wallace. :grin:

[BlastFurnace]

I think Troy's reckless style has caught up with him.

Unless he took a huge pay cut I am not sure he is worth keeping.

I am also not sure we see a dramatic difference with him out anymore.

One my favorite Steelers players of all time.

I tend to agree with you on Troy. I could see him taking a pay cut next season. Even if he comes into camp in tip-top shape, how long will it last.

Honestly, next preseason, I hope Tomlin tells Troy, "you're not playing any preason games". His first game would be game 1 of the 2013
season. If he's going to play 4 games, I'd rather it be in the regular season. Atleast they would have him for a little while before the Troy Limp starts up again.

[Psycho Ward 86]

again, NO HARRISON on this list?

[Dwinsgames]

again, NO HARRISON on this list?


ok here is the scoop on Harrison

Harrison in 2013 is scheduled to make 6.57 million but his cap hit will be 10.035 million if they release him prior to June 1 it will leave them with 4.93 million in dead money on the books for a player they no longer have if they waited till after June 1 , it only saves them 1.4 million in 2013 but they take the rest of the hit in 2014 but have a roster spot to fill that would incur additional money and most likely less production than a healthy Harrison ....

sometimes you have to eat your mistakes with contracts because it is just not beneficial enough to make a move ...

3-4 rush linebackers are not a dime a dozen these days with so many teams playing the 3-4 a decent one will cost you 5 Mill a year or more so cutting Harrison costs you nearly 5 million in dead money you pay a FA to come in to take his place another 5 million and you may as well of Just kept your guy ( who is probably better than who you replace him with ) ...that is unless you believe Worilds is able to take his place and be more productive then instead of spending more money you have to spend a fairly high round draft pick to have a decent backup again ...getting into the draft is not really for this part of the forum but it is my opinion that we need to spend the first 3 rounds of the next draft solidifying our S spots ( 3 of our top Safeties are 31+ and 1 is a Free agent ) and an ILB to replace the aging Larry Foote 33 next year ( Spence is no lock to ever return at this point ) .....


as for Hampton from your original post on page 1 , he reworked his deal back in March cutting his base pay to 2.8 million and his total cap hit just under 5 million he is a FA in 2013 so cutting him now only costs us money and we are then down a player as well then you have to spend money on to replace with someone from the Practice squad or off the streets , and if they come from the practice squad you then have to fill that spot with another body and pay them as well ....

hope this answers your question

[Mojouw]

Be careful writing off James Harrison as DOA. To use one of my personal favorite "Tomlinisms" "...reports of his demise my have been premature...". I know I was thinking he was done, but have recently started to hope I'm wrong. Last couple of games Harrison has started to look like the OLB of season's past. Perhaps it took him much of the season to play into shape and regain functional strength in his back. His rush game is almost all leverage and body lean...I still think he needs to restructure to a more team friendly deal, but outright releasing him is perhaps a rash decision.

[steeldevil]

Yeah Woodley was my favorite player on the defense for awhile but over the least 2 years he has either been hurt or just played average. In all aspects. He needs to pick it up whenever he comes back.

[Dwinsgames]

Be careful writing off James Harrison as DOA. To use one of my personal favorite "Tomlinisms" "...reports of his demise my have been premature...". I know I was thinking he was done, but have recently started to hope I'm wrong. Last couple of games Harrison has started to look like the OLB of season's past. Perhaps it took him much of the season to play into shape and regain functional strength in his back. His rush game is almost all leverage and body lean...I still think he needs to restructure to a more team friendly deal, but outright releasing him is perhaps a rash decision.


Trust me I do not think he is done by a long shot , others well .... maybe they do not feel as strongly about that as I do ...

[Mojouw]

Trust me I do not think he is done by a long shot , others well .... maybe they do not feel as strongly about that as I do ...

I have a dream scenario where everyone gets healthy, the Steelers "gel" over the final four games and hit the playoffs as a severe underdog. Then Ben, Woodley, Harrison, Polamalu, Hampton, Wallace, Mendenhall, etc. remind the league of why they all were viewed as "star" players. Maybe some unexpected good performances from Decastro and Adams on the o-line...Regardless, I still think we will see an angry and healthy Harrison soonish.

[Dwinsgames]

I have a dream scenario where everyone gets healthy, the Steelers "gel" over the final four games and hit the playoffs as a severe underdog. Then Ben, Woodley, Harrison, Polamalu, Hampton, Wallace, Mendenhall, etc. remind the league of why they all were viewed as "star" players. Maybe some unexpected good performances from Decastro and Adams on the o-line...Regardless, I still think we will see an angry and healthy Harrison soonish.


you just might get your wish

[cold-hard-steel]

We surely are not that bad off as some would have you to believe.Not too many carpenters here thats for sure.I use to whine about a task that i was assigned,and my boss said "handle it" and i always did.Keep the head up high.

[Dwinsgames]

lets the purging talk begin ...........

[Dwinsgames]

based on cap hits , no post season ticket punched by this team and the fact we are MILLIONS over the 2013 cap with only 35 guys under contract for 2013 .... a long hard look will have to take place here in the coming weeks / months

[Chidi29]

First look at ways the team can, and probably will, create cap space since we're pretty tight right now. Like the team did last year, they can take 2013 base salaries and turn most of it into a bonus.

I won't post the sea of numbers but the meat and potatoes of it. From the most we can save to the least.

Woodley: 2013 total salary (right now): 13.5 (9 base). Taking 8 out of his base salary, we can lower his 2013 cap number to 8.2, a savings of 5.3 million.

Ben: 2013 salary - 17.43 (11.6 base). Take 10 out of base, 2013 cap number lowered to 12.66, a savings of 4.77 million.

Timmons: 2013 salary - 8.51 (5.38 base). Take 4 out of base, 2013 cap number lowered to to 5.13, a savings of 3.38 million.

Harrison: 2013 salary - 9.13 (6.57 base). Take 5 out of base, 2013 cap number lowered to 6.06, a savings of 3.07 million.

Colon: 2013 salary - 7.65 (5.5 base). Take 4 out of base, 2013 cap number lowered to 4.98, a savings of 2.67 million.

Ike: 2013 salary - 9.45 (6 base). Take 5 out of base, 2013 cap number lowered to 6.95, a savings of 2.5 million.

Troy: 2013 salary - 10.14 (7.5 base). Take 5 out of base, 2013 cap number lowered to 7.64, a savings of 2.5 million.

Heath: 2013 salary - 7.26 (5.16 base). Take 4 out of base, 2013 cap number lowered to 5.26, a savings of 2 million.

Brown: 2013 salary - 3.92 (2 base). Take 1 out of base, 2013 cap number lowered to 3.12, a savings of 800K.

-------------

Add up all the savings, and you get a grand total of 26.99 MILLION SAVED.

You can shave the numbers down more if you went to the vet minimum for these players. I just usually rounded off to a nice number like one million. I will say that my numbers could be off too because it's sometimes tough for me to tell how some of the smaller bonuses are paid out. But I don't think I'm too far off.

[Shoes]

Dang Chidi....you need to go to Washington and help out these politicians.

[Psycho Ward 86]

so you said were 6 million over the cap right now in some other thread right?

So how do you see us distributing some of that remaining 21 million between some of the likely UFA's we want to keep?

[Chidi29]

so you said were 6 million over the cap right now in some other thread right?

So how do you see us distributing some of that remaining 21 million between some of the likely UFA's we want to keep?

I got that figure from Steelers Depot but I trust that's it accurate.

Distribution depends on what the players are asking for and what their market value is. Off the top of my head, I know I'd definitely like to keep Lewis and Foster. Foster may look elsewhere though for a starting gig. Or at the least, price himself as one and take us out of the hunt.

[Seven]

Good news is most of those guys have restructured before, so it shouldn't be hard to get the wheels in motion. Don't see why any player would turn a restructure down in this scenario, it's more of a positive thing than a negative.

[Chidi29]

Good news is most of those guys have restructured before, so it shouldn't be hard to get the wheels in motion. Don't see why any player would turn a restructure down in this scenario, it's more of a positive thing than a negative.

Right. Certainly no negative aspects of it, aside from a small weekly game check. But you don't lose any money.

[steelreserve]

Right. Certainly no negative aspects of it, aside from a small weekly game check. But you don't lose any money.

In fact, with all the Obama shit lined up for next year, you'd think guys would be clamoring to get next year's salary turned into a signing bonus that was paid this year, which would theoretically make their take-home pay significantly more. Though time may be running out for that.

One thing I don't like about being too cavalier with restructures is that they REALLY lock you into having that guy for the duration and full amount of his contract, because the dead money just gets crazy ... and by the end of the deal you can end up with things like insane $18 million cap hits with no way out, because you've basically just pushed this year's salary forward and doubled up on the future cap hit and guaranteed it. It does catch up with you eventually.

I remember the 49ers in the late 90s having something like $20M in dead money out of a $60M salary cap because they'd gone way overboard with this and finally they couldn't do anything about it. It wasn't actually "dead money," but more like "funny money" that was actually previous years' salaries that were bunched up at the end of contracts. In either case, they couldn't use it, and the players they had to give up were a big reason why they got their asses handed to them for 10 years.

[Chidi29]

Yes, that is the unfortunate downfall of this idea. The money does not go away, it just gets pushed to future years and added onto already high numbers. It's a band-aid, not a solution to cap problems.

The hope here is that the cap will spike in the next couple years and give you free relief.

- - - Updated - - -

I also know that according to Steelers Depot, we're able to carry over unused cap room into next year (3 million according to them) and have a little bit in vet credits we can use.

[Psycho Ward 86]

dear god i hope we never live to see the day when all of those backloaded salary restructures show up in the cap hit. i dont want to see the 80's all over again...or worse

[Dwinsgames]

why another thread of the same , if we kept it all in the same thread would be much easier to get the info and navigate the board ... its not like you did not know it was already here I linked it to you a week ago when talking salary cap hit on Colon http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/15673-Players-at-the-end-of-the-line-in-B-amp-G

I just do not get why we need yet another thread on the same topic /shrug

[Chidi29]

why another thread of the same , if we kept it all in the same thread would be much easier to get the info and navigate the board ... its not like you did not know it was already here I linked it to you a week ago when talking salary cap hit on Colon http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/15673-Players-at-the-end-of-the-line-in-B-amp-G

I just do not get why we need yet another thread on the same topic /shrug

I can't keep track of every single thread I come across. Besides, that topic talks mostly about who to keep/cut. Mine does none of that.

[Dwinsgames]

I can't keep track of every single thread I come across. Besides, that topic talks mostly about who to keep/cut. Mine does none of that.


cap hits ... but we never agree ..I have come to terms with that

[Chidi29]

cap hits ... but we never agree ..I have come to terms with that

There were a bunch of free agency topics discussed, cap hits was just one small part of it. Plus, that thread was from late November. It's not like it was from yesterday.

If a mod feels like it should be merged, they can merge it. It's not your call and you're not adding to this thread at all. To quote you...

"if it does not appeal to you , you always have the option to simply click to the next thread "

[Dwinsgames]

whatever man .... I do not agree with you nor do I ever agree with you ... you have a holier than thou attitude that thinks your shit doesn't stink ...

I don't like you ... period

if not liking you is against the forum rules , Mark me down ...I have seen far worse comments on here so do not suspect I will be banned any more than any of the others that have posted like comments ... and if I am then I guess I will post elsewhere ....

[Chidi29]

Don't get mad at me when you were clearly the one trying to pick a fight.

[Dwinsgames]

Don't get mad at me when you were clearly the one trying to pick a fight.


not picking a fight , just laying my cards on the table when it comes to you and your condescending attitude , clearly you are young and wet behind the ears , more education than life smarts ... maybe one day you will grow into a great liberal toilet scrubber for all the effort ...

I am done with this so no need to reply !

[Chidi29]

I'm the immature one? Have you looked at what you've said in this thread? Wow.

[salamander]

That was uncalled for...

Chidi29 is one of the most knowledgeable members on this forum and did nothing to disrespect you.

[Count Steeler]

Dwinsgames, no need to be making personal remarks. If you don't agree with Chidi29, speak to the points he has made.

[Dwinsgames]

Dwinsgames, no need to be making personal remarks. If you don't agree with Chidi29, speak to the points he has made.


he does not exist to me anymore .... I have dealt with the child enough here , he acts like my 18 year old .....

his initial post is shit too , sure you can restructure contracts but the money does not simply fall off the face of the earth .... you are still accountable for it down the line ... you can at times do it and make the ends justify the mean but you can not do it over and over and over again or you screw yourself long term ... its like paying just the interest payment on your mortgage eventually it comes back and bites you in the ass

[Chidi29]

he does not exist to me anymore .... I have dealt with the child enough here , he acts like my 18 year old .....

his initial post is shit too , sure you can restructure contracts but the money does not simply fall off the face of the earth .... you are still accountable for it down the line ... you can at times do it and make the ends justify the mean but you can not do it over and over and over again or you screw yourself long term ... its like paying just the interest payment on your mortgage eventually it comes back and bites you in the ass

Sure, I've been the 18 year old. I've been the one telling people to "F off" and listing why I don't like someone.

And yes, I'm aware of the drawbacks. The money does not disappear. That's why I said later in the thread before you chimed in, "The money does not go away, it just gets pushed to future years and added onto already high numbers. It's a band-aid, not a solution to cap problems. "

And this is something the team did last year and will probably do so this year. It's not something I'm creating out of thin air.

[Count Steeler]

In fact, with all the Obama shit lined up for next year, you'd think guys would be clamoring to get next year's salary turned into a signing bonus that was paid this year, which would theoretically make their take-home pay significantly more. Though time may be running out for that.

One thing I don't like about being too cavalier with restructures is that they REALLY lock you into having that guy for the duration and full amount of his contract, because the dead money just gets crazy ... and by the end of the deal you can end up with things like insane $18 million cap hits with no way out, because you've basically just pushed this year's salary forward and doubled up on the future cap hit and guaranteed it. It does catch up with you eventually.

I remember the 49ers in the late 90s having something like $20M in dead money out of a $60M salary cap because they'd gone way overboard with this and finally they couldn't do anything about it. It wasn't actually "dead money," but more like "funny money" that was actually previous years' salaries that were bunched up at the end of contracts. In either case, they couldn't use it, and the players they had to give up were a big reason why they got their asses handed to them for 10 years.


Yes, that is the unfortunate downfall of this idea. The money does not go away, it just gets pushed to future years and added onto already high numbers. It's a band-aid, not a solution to cap problems.

The hope here is that the cap will spike in the next couple years and give you free relief.

- - - Updated - - -

I also know that according to Steelers Depot, we're able to carry over unused cap room into next year (3 million according to them) and have a little bit in vet credits we can use.


he does not exist to me anymore .... I have dealt with the child enough here , he acts like my 18 year old .....

his initial post is shit too , sure you can restructure contracts but the money does not simply fall off the face of the earth .... you are still accountable for it down the line ... you can at times do it and make the ends justify the mean but you can not do it over and over and over again or you screw yourself long term ... its like paying just the interest payment on your mortgage eventually it comes back and bites you in the ass

That was pointed out by steelreserve and acknowledged by Chidi29.

[Chidi29]

The Bucs just did this to VJ's and Carl Nicks' contracts yesterday. So it's a common practice.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/post/_/id/43575/bucs-restructure-jackson-nicks-contracts

[X-Terminator]

Dwins does have a point, even if it wasn't brought forth in the best manner. So I will merge this thread with the other one to make things cleaner. However, in the future, when there is a duplicate thread with similar content, please bring it to our attention in private rather than play forum policeman.

[Dwinsgames]

why another thread of the same , if we kept it all in the same thread would be much easier to get the info and navigate the board ... its not like you did not know it was already here I linked it to you a week ago when talking salary cap hit on Colon http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/15673-Players-at-the-end-of-the-line-in-B-amp-G

I just do not get why we need yet another thread on the same topic /shrug

What I originally said above .... just not sure what other manner I could have said it .... but okay


Dwins does have a point, even if it wasn't brought forth in the best manner. .

[Chidi29]

Yeah, there was clearly no other way to handle that thread... :huh:

[Steeldude]

Hampton is having good year, what the hell are you talkin about. Don't be cuttin on the big snack. Might be a long time till we get a player like him. He held the middle for a long time. He is still makin plays today!!!!! Bite the big one bro!!!!!

Hampton has been getting pushed around and re-directed for the last few seasons. Seeing a couple of highlights on TV doesn't mean he is having a good year. Now I will admit his play improved later in the season, but he is not worth keeping due to the salary cap issue in 2013. Maybe if Hampton dropped 40lbs it might be worth looking into.

[steelreserve]

Hampton has been getting pushed around and re-directed for the last few seasons. Seeing a couple of highlights on TV doesn't mean he is having a good year. Now I will admit his play improved later in the season, but he is not worth keeping due to the salary cap issue in 2013. Maybe if Hampton dropped 40lbs it might be worth looking into.

Depends on how much we'd have to pay for him. At this year's number, no way. If we could get him for like $1M, it might be a wise investment for the depth, because there's no guarantee that anyone other than McLendon can either play worth a damn or won't be in jail. I definitely agree I wouldn't want to see him as the primary starter anymore.

[steelpride12]

Just wondering some opinions on if James Harrison will return next season. Pretty sure we already owe him around $6.6 million this season alone or next, plus he is getting at that age where injuries have become more common and we do have substantial guys in the waiting who would not only be cheaper, but could be a valid replacement.

[polamalubeast]

In his three players, do you think they will be back in 2013?


I think this is the last game for Harrison with the steelers today....For Taylor and Polamalu,I think they will be back, but it is not impossible that they are not back


thought?

[Seven]

From everything I've heard the team will probably try and bring him (Harrison) back on a new deal. Probably incentive based would be my guess. If he won't have it I don't know, might be cut. I hope not though.

[polamalubeast]

I think this is his (Harrison's) last game with the steelers...it's sad but this is the reality

[Dwinsgames]

I am not the cops .. so not going to say anything more than i just did LOL

[tube517]

I am not the cops .. so not going to say anything more than i just did LOL

:rofl2:

[steelreserve]

I bet you anything Harrison is back. Did anyone notice how the defense was terrible while he was out, then did a complete transformation as soon as he returned? He might not have had great stats this year, but he's been absolutely key to making the defense work.

There's almost no chance we get rid of Taylor. Last year we restructured his contract so basically all of this year's salary was made into a signing bonus. So cutting him would cost us something like $5M in dead money plus whatever we spent on a replacement; so in other words, it would be pointless. I'm not worried too much, because his cap number next year is probably still reasonable enough for a somewhat competent CB. I also don't think the same thing again with a signing bonus would be smart, because there's only two more years on his contract, which would mean something like a $14M cap hit in 2014 that there was no way out of. So I think we leave his deal alone for one more year, take someone in the draft if we can, then either get rid of him in 2014 or bring him back at a reduced number.

Polamalu, who knows. He showed over the last couple games that he isn't "done" in that he still has the skills to be awesome if he can stay injury-free. His contract isn't one of those backloaded fake ones either, so who knows what we do with it. Personally, I think we take our chances because the upside is so big if it pays off. It's a $9M roll of the dice.

[Psycho Ward 86]

why are ike and troy in the title if your question is about harrison? i dont think harrison is coming back. just too many high priority free agents and really shitty cap situation imo.

[Lambert_Loonie]

I wouldn't be surprised if they all come back and just restructure their deals.

[BlastFurnace]

I wouldn't be surprised if they all come back and just restructure their deals.

That would be the worst decision the FO could make.

Time to turn the page.

[Psycho Ward 86]

That would be the worst decision the FO could make.

Time to turn the page.

agreed. we seem to traditionally let aging vets go anyways

[fansince'76]

After watching the Shank Master at work again today, I hope Butler's gone next season too.

[SteelerFanInStl]

We don't have anyone currently on the roster who can replace James. That's a fact. Worlds and Carter have both had many opportunities and failed. This defense isn't nearly the same without James. Cutting him would be a big mistake.

Woodley is the big POS who should be cut but his contract keeps us from doing that.

- - - Updated - - -


After watching the Shank Master at work again today, I hope Butler's gone next season too.

I certainly hope so. I've seen enough of him.

[Count Steeler]

We don't have anyone currently on the roster who can replace James. That's a fact. Worlds and Carter have both had many opportunities and failed. This defense isn't nearly the same without James. Cutting him would be a big mistake.

Woodley is the big POS who should be cut but his contract keeps us from doing that.

Yup, a lot of credit has to go Harrison for settling this defense down. It was when he came back that we started to play respectable D. I hope he has another Steeler year in him.

[Dwinsgames]

Yup, a lot of credit has to go Harrison for settling this defense down. It was when he came back that we started to play respectable D. I hope he has another Steeler year in him.


Harrison sets the edge unlike most LB in the league , he is in a class of his own in that regard

[Psycho Ward 86]

We don't have anyone currently on the roster who can replace James. That's a fact. Worlds and Carter have both had many opportunities and failed. This defense isn't nearly the same without James. Cutting him would be a big mistake.

Woodley is the big POS who should be cut but his contract keeps us from doing that.

james harrison is going to be 35 by the time next season starts. he has had numerous surgeries in recent years and playing at a small fraction of the level that he used to. You want to keep him and cut woodley? So essentially we'll have neither of them in a year or 2? who do you expect to take up the mantle then? looks like it cant be worilds or carter for certain according to you.

gotta look long term. especially with the cap situation which is arguably the worst its ever been with all of the people we need to hold onto. omar khan can only save our financial asses for so long

[Dwinsgames]

I think Worilds plays pretty well ( on Woodleys side ) better than Woodley this year actually , that is not to say Wood doesn't set the world on fire next year though we simply know he can we just do not know if he will ... I think if you can get a guy to play Harrisons spot in a year or two out of this draft you give Woodley another year to see if he returns to form ... if he does not let Worilds take his spot and ditch him next off season , but not now .... no way can you make that move IMO

[Psycho Ward 86]

harrison is set to maek $6.57 million next year and put a $10 million cap hit on us next year as well. Huge huge hit. Is that worth it for him to stay one more season (which he might not even play every game?)

[Dwinsgames]

harrison is set to maek $6.57 million next year and put a $10 million cap hit on us next year as well. Huge huge hit. Is that worth it for him to stay one more season (which he might not even play every game?)

I think so , because this is the first season in a few he has ended the year playing better than he started the year ..... first year in awhile the season ended on a healthy note for him too ... I think he has another year or two left in the tank the way he played down the stretch as Tomlin would say " he was a player on the come or on the rise " and again we have no other reasonable option on his side .... Worilds has played well but on the other side when on Harrisons side , well not so much ....



Troy has missed more games over the last 2 years and will make just as much , so ........................

[SteelerFanInStl]

james harrison is going to be 35 by the time next season starts. he has had numerous surgeries in recent years and playing at a small fraction of the level that he used to. You want to keep him and cut woodley? So essentially we'll have neither of them in a year or 2? who do you expect to take up the mantle then? looks like it cant be worilds or carter for certain according to you.

gotta look long term. especially with the cap situation which is arguably the worst its ever been with all of the people we need to hold onto. omar khan can only save our financial asses for so long

Yes, just throw production out the window and focus in on age and recent injuries. Even with the injuries James has been much more productive than Woodley. I would also argue that he's been much better than "a small fraction of the level he used to be" during the latter part of this season. James may be 35 but he's still quite capable of playing at a high level for a few more years. Sit down with him and re-work his contract into something more cap friendly and incentive laden.

I always find it hilarious to read posts saying to get rid of certain players when we don't have anyone on the roster capable of replacing them.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I always find it hilarious to read posts saying to get rid of certain players when we don't have anyone on the roster capable of replacing them.

thats funny because cutting woodley and keeping or cutting harrison is just waiting for the inevitable: a cap implosion that is beyond repair and a waterfall of lost valuable players when it happens. you seem to take omar khan, the financial situation, harrison's health, harrison's production, and the long term success of this team for granted.

Whats your long term outlook? You must be demanding a very high draft pick/several high draft picks be spent on a savvy OLB this upcoming draft or next season because if you want to cut woodley and keep harrison/cut harrison (it really doesnt matter, either way is just waiting for the inevitable. the only difference being letting him walk will save money), its automatically going to be a year [or several] without ANY single dominant pass rusher on this team. Doesnt matter how creative lebeau gets with his defense, every 3-4 defense relies on its OLB's for a steady pass rush first and foremost. And we'll be out of those almost instantaneously if we cut woodley like you demand. how much longer do you expect harrison to play, and how productive do you expect him to be? i think youre asking a lot out of a guy who's been under the knife a lot the past couple years.

[SteelerFanInStl]

thats funny because cutting woodley and keeping or cutting harrison is just waiting for the inevitable: a cap implosion that is beyond repair and a waterfall of lost valuable players when it happens. you seem to take omar khan, the financial situation, harrison's health, harrison's production, and the long term success of this team for granted.

Whats your long term outlook? You must be demanding a very high draft pick/several high draft picks be spent on a savvy OLB this upcoming draft or next season because if you want to cut woodley and keep harrison/cut harrison (it really doesnt matter, either way is just waiting for the inevitable. the only difference being letting him walk will save money), its automatically going to be a year [or several] without ANY single dominant pass rusher on this team. Doesnt matter how creative lebeau gets with his defense, every 3-4 defense relies on its OLB's for a steady pass rush first and foremost. And we'll be out of those almost instantaneously if we cut woodley like you demand. how much longer do you expect harrison to play, and how productive do you expect him to be? i think youre asking a lot out of a guy who's been under the knife a lot the past couple years.

Your whole post is based on me supposedly demanding that we cut Woodley but yet I've said no such thing. In fact, I said in my first post that we can't cut him because of his contract.

And for the record, Woodley is much more replaceable and in fact, as dwins and others have said, Worilds has played better than Woodley on that side.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Your whole post is based on me supposedly demanding that we cut Woodley but yet I've said no such thing. In fact, I said in my first post that we can't cut him because of his contract.

And for the record, Woodley is much more replaceable and in fact, as dwins and others have said, Worilds has played better than Woodley on that side.

you said he should be cut. and i agree that he's more replaceable. but harrison is going to be both a monster cap hit and a short term solution to the olb position. and a question mark as far as health and production goes. took a long time to get both healthy and productive this season

[Dwinsgames]

you said he should be cut. and i agree that he's more replaceable. but harrison is going to be both a monster cap hit and a short term solution to the olb position. and a question mark as far as health and production goes. took a long time to get both healthy and productive this season


Troy is a short term solution and a monster cap hit as well ..... ( and misses more games ) ... can't cut em all

I do not recall exact numbers but if memory serves it will cost us close to 5 million to end Harrison's run in the Burgh in the way of a cap hit , if you at that point try and replace him with a guy half his skill level in the Free agent market you are going to spend at the very least another 5 million ... you at that point are back at the 10 million a year spent on the position and have a lessor player on the field ....

if you draft a guy it will take him a few years to bloom ( most cases ) thus less production and costing you a high round draft pick and still have to eat some of Harrison's deal as the cherry on top ...

sometimes it is just cheaper to keep a guy and pay him as long as you feel somewhat assured you are going to get reasonable production in return ....

[steelreserve]

I actually think they keep Harrison for another two years. Next year where he's the starter and one more where he starts transitioning to a lesser role. First because I think this year proved how important he still is to this defense, and second because that's the only way they could reasonably spread the cap hit out. Instead of $9M all at once, we could probably make it more like $6M/$6M and throw a few incentives in on top of it for the second year.

Hell, Harrison would probably be eager as hell to play for the vet minimum and make everything else into a signing bonus - keep his game checks as small as possible so Goodell can't get his hands on the rest.