PDA

View Full Version : UPDATE: Steelers sign WR Plaxico Burress



polamalubeast
11-19-2012, 04:55 PM
Filed to ESPN: Free-agent WR Plaxico Burress is expected to go to Pittsburgh to meet with and take a physical for the Steelers. Need WR help


http://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/statuses/270659615048495104

steeldawg
11-19-2012, 04:57 PM
Wow i like this move.

stillers4me
11-19-2012, 05:01 PM
And who's going to throw to him........

GodfatherofSoul
11-19-2012, 05:01 PM
Desperate, humble WR on his last lifeline in the league. He may not be the same player, but I expect all he's got effortwise.

GBMelBlount
11-19-2012, 05:01 PM
LOL. This thread could get ugly.

If we get him for vet min he may be worth a second "shot"

Psycho Ward 86
11-19-2012, 05:01 PM
Oh my god we cant be serious...

and also


And who's going to throw to him........

this...

steeldawg
11-19-2012, 05:02 PM
right now looks like old charlie

GBMelBlount
11-19-2012, 05:04 PM
And who's going to throw to him........

Until passing to yourself becomes as easy as shooting yourself this could be an issue.

SteelMayhem72
11-19-2012, 05:04 PM
They better worry about a Qb that can make a throw without one hopping it...just tells me brown is out a while as well and possibly cotchery

steeldawg
11-19-2012, 05:05 PM
Oh my god we cant be serious...

and also



this...

Well i think they want sanders in the number 3 role because cothery has really done nothing.

X-Terminator
11-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Oh man...this should be a fun week...

fansince'76
11-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Need WR help

We need QB help a whole lot more...

Craic
11-19-2012, 05:08 PM
They better worry about a Qb that can make a throw without one hopping it...just tells me brown is out a while as well and possibly cotchery

Forgot about Cotchery getting lit up last night. That very well may be true.

Hey - there's one good thing about having a QB that is older than the head coach - at least Batch has thrown to Burress before!

Count Steeler
11-19-2012, 05:08 PM
You have got to be kidding me! Is it April 1?

What WR help do we need? Did someone get hurt last night? Is Cotchery out?

How about a QB that has a little more resilience than glass?

steeldawg
11-19-2012, 05:11 PM
I wanted him instead of cotchery to begin with so i will be very happy if they sign him.

Dwinsgames
11-19-2012, 05:13 PM
maybe Wallace is being sent a message from above , and I do not mean God I mean Mr. Rooney ........

naa its in all likelihood to do with Cotchery but could not help the opening to down Mr. I want Fitz money Wallace who IMO has his priorities wrong and is more concerned about what he can't control than what he can control and that is producing at crucial times on the field and putting forth 110% from the effort department

86WARD
11-19-2012, 05:14 PM
Good Lord...

steeldawg
11-19-2012, 05:14 PM
maybe Wallace is being sent a message from above , and I do not mean God I mean Mr. Rooney ........

naa its in all likelihood to do with Cotchery but could not help the opening to down Mr. I want Fitz money Wallace who IMO has his priorities wrong and is more concerned about what he can't control than what he can control and that is producing at crucial times on the field and putting forth 110% from the effort department

Keep the wallace hate in the wallace thread, and he never asked for fitz money.

Carolina Steelers
11-19-2012, 05:15 PM
You have got to be kidding me! Is it April 1?

What WR help do we need? Did someone get hurt last night? Is Cotchery out?

How about a QB that has a little more resilience than glass?

Adam Schefter‏@AdamSchefter

Steelers WR Antonio Brown already was nursing a sprained ankle and WR Jerricho Cotchery was injured during Sunday night vs. Baltimore.

polamalubeast
11-19-2012, 05:15 PM
Steelers make right move to bring in Burress


There's depth concerns for the Pittsburgh Steelers beyond the quarterback position. With Antonio Brown and Jerricho Cotchery injured, the Steelers are eyeing a reunion with Plaxico Burress to help out at wide receiver.

Burress, 35, who played for the Steelers from from 2000 to 2004, is expected to go to Pittsburgh to take a physical for the Steelers. This is the right move by the Steelers, and I'm surprised that Burress is still available.

If nothing else, he will be a big target in the red zone. The 6-foot-5 Burress caught eight touchdowns last season. The knock on Burress is he doesn't get separation anymore. Still, he had 45 catches last season from Mark Sanchez, so that tells me he can be productive with most quarterbacks.

There was talk that the Steelers were interested in signing Burress in training camp when Mike Wallace was a holdout. But Burress reportedly wanted too much money. Now, over halfway through the season, Burress needs a job and the Steelers need a productive receiver. It makes sense for the Steelers to sign Burress if he passes the physical.



http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/59449/steelers-make-right-move-to-bring-in-burress

Carolina Steelers
11-19-2012, 05:16 PM
Keep the wallace hate in the wallace thread, and he never asked for fitz money.

agreed

steelreserve
11-19-2012, 05:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZddspcjDIY

86WARD
11-19-2012, 05:16 PM
Wonder if Brown is injured worse than the "mild" ankle sprain that was no big deal...

X-Terminator
11-19-2012, 05:19 PM
Oh great, even Cotchery is injured.

Fire the conditioning coach and let's get some help in here. Either that or bring back Alan Alda and the rest of the MASH crew.

Conditioning doesn't help when you get lit up like a Roman candle, like Cotch did last night.

Count Steeler
11-19-2012, 05:19 PM
Oh great, even Cotchery is injured.

Fire the conditioning coach and let's get some help in here. Either that or bring back Alan Alda and the rest of the MASH crew.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean the line has stabilized this year and we haven't had an injury for a few weeks, and now it seems the rest of the team is injured.

Can't catch a break, well, you know what I mean.

steelreserve
11-19-2012, 05:21 PM
Wonder if Brown is injured worse than the "mild" ankle sprain that was no big deal...

Well, duh. A high ankle sprain tends to hang around and fuck up the whole rest of your season, so probably.

Count Steeler
11-19-2012, 05:22 PM
Conditioning doesn't help when you get lit up like a Roman candle, like Cotch did last night.

I know, but it is just so damn frustrating.

Carolina Steelers
11-19-2012, 05:24 PM
I need to go check my (keepsake box) and see if my plex jersey is still in there. LOL Jamie McCoy (practice squad) he has #80 i believe

st33lersguy
11-19-2012, 05:26 PM
Better than Limas Wallace

salamander
11-19-2012, 05:30 PM
Did not expect this one...

JayC
11-19-2012, 05:33 PM
And who's going to throw to him........

.

Chidi29
11-19-2012, 05:39 PM
If you don't have a QB to get him the ball, then you look for a receiver to help offset that. I have no clue what Burress has left in his tank but I know the size is still there. That quality is still unique. Don't know if he can separate but he'll always be a matchup problem. And he has no margin of error to be a headache to us.

86WARD
11-19-2012, 05:45 PM
Well, duh. A high ankle sprain tends to hang around and fuck up the whole rest of your season, so probably.

Nah...can't be...they said it wasn't serious and he's be back soon...must've been true...lol. Called this one immediately...

Psycho Ward 86
11-19-2012, 05:54 PM
wow didnt know cotchery was hurt that bad on sunday. at first i thought this was just a vote of no-confidence in wallace and sanders

- - - Updated - - -


Filed to ESPN: Free-agent WR Plaxico Burress is expected to go to Pittsburgh to meet with and take a physical for the Steelers. Need WR help


http://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/statuses/270659615048495104

and also, change the title of this thread, its misleading. He's expected to take a physical and workout, it doesnt say anywhere he's expected to sign

Hindes204
11-19-2012, 06:12 PM
What the........

GoSlash27
11-19-2012, 06:14 PM
http://ministryplace.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Third-party-facepalm.jpg

SteelMayhem72
11-19-2012, 06:45 PM
Im not sure about Cotchery but he did take a shot last night and laid there for a little bit and I cant remember if returned to the game...he may very well be injured. I dont understand it...is something changing in game play hits??? It seems like our injuries go up year after...conditioning issue?? Never seen it this bad not just in pittsburgh but across the league...Goodell must be on the edge of his seat...hope he falls and cracks his head open and fine him for a head to head concussion!!!

Chidi29
11-19-2012, 06:47 PM
Cotchery suffered a rib injury according to Tomlin.

SteelMayhem72
11-19-2012, 06:48 PM
Also signing Burress would hopefully help Wallace....matchup issues...hard to double team both...if so then I would throw to Heath all day!!

Dwinsgames
11-19-2012, 06:49 PM
Im not sure about Cotchery but he did take a shot last night and laid there for a little bit and I cant remember if returned to the game...he may very well be injured. I dont understand it...is something changing in game play hits??? It seems like our injuries go up year after...conditioning issue?? Never seen it this bad not just in pittsburgh but across the league...Goodell must be on the edge of his seat...hope he falls and cracks his head open and fine him for a head to head concussion!!!


ya know the new CBA might be a factor in this issue ... players are much more limited than in past seasons to how often they dawn the pads and actively hit one another in practice ... some claim that;s good because the body is not forced to absorb as much abuse over the season while others say players get a little softer ..I come from the latter camp and believe in most cases the players just are not accustomed to getting hit as much and become more fragile because of it ...who knows for sure what the " right answer " really is

Chidi29
11-19-2012, 06:50 PM
Also signing Burress would hopefully help Wallace....matchup issues...hard to double team both...if so then I would throw to Heath all day!!

I don't think anyone is double-teaming Burress. I know I just talked about the size matchup, but he's long past the point of needing to be shadowed by a safety. In terms of threats to this team, he'd be lower on the totem pole.

SteelMayhem72
11-19-2012, 06:51 PM
All these rib injuries tells me one thing...defenders are lowering their target just like Father GODDELL wants...guess what roger...doesnt reduce the injuries!! The league is gonna turn into a backup league cause thats all thats gonna be playing is the backups!

Dwinsgames
11-19-2012, 06:52 PM
I don't think anyone is double-teaming Burress. I know I just talked about the size matchup, but he's long past the point of needing to be shadowed by a safety. In terms of threats to this team, he'd be lower on the totem pole.


I still think he merits double coverage in the redzone ( esp inside the 10 ) , he is still very deadly on corner fade routes vs any db in the league based on sheer size alone

SteelMayhem72
11-19-2012, 06:56 PM
I don't think anyone is double-teaming Burress. I know I just talked about the size matchup, but he's long past the point of needing to be shadowed by a safety. In terms of threats to this team, he'd be lower on the totem pole.

I absolutely think it would cause matchup issues because of his size not so much ability anymore thus helping wallace!!

- - - Updated - - -


I still think he merits double coverage in the redzone ( esp inside the 10 ) , he is still very deadly on corner fade routes vs any db in the league based on sheer size alone

Agreed!

- - - Updated - - -

BTW...welcome aboard DWINSGAMES!:bounce:

SteelerFanInStl
11-19-2012, 06:57 PM
and also, change the title of this thread, its misleading. He's expected to take a physical and workout, it doesnt say anywhere he's expected to sign

Exactly! Just because he comes in doesn't mean that we're going to sign him.

slippy
11-19-2012, 07:03 PM
this season really ran off the rails in a hurry.

SteelMayhem72
11-19-2012, 07:16 PM
Well I said this last week about Ben and possible "career" issues with his injury...just something I heard but couldnt provide a link just something I heard from a medical expert...its all speculation now about Ben but I do think his season is over only further tests will give us a more definite answer...my problem is a lack of a backup plan...It was a matter of time Ben suffered a "serious" injury but this is one injury that he may beg to play but could be a life or death thing and in no way he will play because of it...I blame our front office and the coaches for no vision past this...we have all been spoiled by Ben's toughness and playing through pain but this injury there will be no such thing...should have had viable backups in here a couple of years ago!!!

Chidi29
11-19-2012, 07:17 PM
I absolutely think it would cause matchup issues because of his size not so much ability anymore thus helping wallace!!

- - - Updated - - -
.

Agreed!

- - - Updated - - -

BTW...welcome aboard DWINSGAMES!:bounce:

Yes, he still would be a matchup problem but I don't think he'll warrant too many double-teams at this late stage of his career

- - - Updated - - -


I still think he merits double coverage in the redzone ( esp inside the 10 ) , he is still very deadly on corner fade routes vs any db in the league based on sheer size alone

Eh...I don't know if I'd agree, Generally, you don't see many double-teams in the redzone unless you're a top-flight receiver (i.e. Calvin Johnson).

Devilsdancefloor
11-19-2012, 07:21 PM
http://i47.tinypic.com/2e4z1x3.jpg


Toney Clemons, please step forward!

tube517
11-19-2012, 07:22 PM
https://www.estreetplastics.com/v/vspfiles/images/acrylic-plexiglass-sheet-ca.jpg

tube517
11-19-2012, 07:32 PM
Just get Hines or ARE out of retirement to play QB and WR and vice versa. :chuckle:

Moose
11-19-2012, 07:57 PM
It may not be a bad move. An 'extra' WR, know's the organization, a WR BEN likes and know's how to run the routes, and probably...being half way thru the season and Burress not having a job....the price is probably right. I'm sure they are searching for a QB right now also. Good luck F.O. Go Steeler's.

86WARD
11-19-2012, 08:19 PM
It may not be a bad move. An 'extra' WR, know's the organization, a WR BEN likes and know's how to run the routes, and probably...being half way thru the season and Burress not having a job....the price is probably right. I'm sure they are searching for a QB right now also. Good luck F.O. Go Steeler's.

Problem is...Ben ain't playing...:wink:

Shoes
11-19-2012, 08:24 PM
Problem is...Ben ain't playing...:wink:


......and neither is Lefty......and after this week neither is Chuck. :chuckle:

bayz101
11-19-2012, 08:26 PM
LOL @ everyone saying we need a QB to get the ball to him. Charlie Batch has always been dependable, and now I hope he lights it up just to silence this crap.

Steeltreal
11-19-2012, 08:34 PM
At least try to play Rainey in the slot or swing him from 2 rb formation. Burress not the answer

SteelGhost
11-19-2012, 08:42 PM
wow didnt know cotchery was hurt that bad on sunday. at first i thought this was just a vote of no-confidence in wallace and sanders

- - - Updated - - -



and also, change the title of this thread, its misleading. He's expected to take a physical and workout, it doesnt say anywhere he's expected to sign

Very true, we have to wait to see if Plex signs.

Heinz Hitman
11-19-2012, 08:50 PM
ya know the new CBA might be a factor in this issue ... players are much more limited than in past seasons to how often they dawn the pads and actively hit one another in practice ... some claim that;s good because the body is not forced to absorb as much abuse over the season while others say players get a little softer ..I come from the latter camp and believe in most cases the players just are not accustomed to getting hit as much and become more fragile because of it ...who knows for sure what the " right answer " really is

And we have a winner! This is exactly why there are so many injuries this year. I have been saying this all season.

Oh, and don't I know you from somewhere, D? lol Welcome aboard stud.

steelerdude15
11-19-2012, 08:53 PM
This is something I didn't see happening.

HollywoodSteel
11-19-2012, 08:54 PM
It's probably just a motivational move to get Ben back on the field. Get him that tall receiver he's always asking for. :chuckle:

SteelMayhem72
11-19-2012, 09:02 PM
It's probably just a motivational move to get Ben back on the field. Get him that tall receiver he's always asking for. :chuckle:

Sorry I dont agree with this..we obviously need WR help...nothing to do with Ben...his injury is pretty serious in terms of how long he's gonna be out! We need a QB also...Ben may be out for the season!

GBMelBlount
11-19-2012, 09:38 PM
ya know the new CBA might be a factor in this issue ... players are much more limited than in past seasons to how often they dawn the pads and actively hit one another in practice ... some claim that;s good because the body is not forced to absorb as much abuse over the season while others say players get a little softer ..I come from the latter camp and believe in most cases the players just are not accustomed to getting hit as much and become more fragile because of it ...who knows for sure what the " right answer " really is

This is an interesting thought. Right now I think the advantage of being exposed to more full contact pad play might simply be that it helps the players LEARN HOW to better prepare for / avoid the bone crushing hits that lead to injury moreso than being physically less fragile or harder to injure by virtue of more bodily abuse.

For instance, Lefty playing a lot more might not have hardened his bones as much as helped him to learn how to fall more gracefully and be less abused by the ground. :chuckle:

Steeldude
11-19-2012, 10:13 PM
Oh joy, an older and slower version of Wallace.

SteelerFanInStl
11-19-2012, 10:31 PM
ya know the new CBA might be a factor in this issue ... players are much more limited than in past seasons to how often they dawn the pads and actively hit one another in practice ... some claim that;s good because the body is not forced to absorb as much abuse over the season while others say players get a little softer ..I come from the latter camp and believe in most cases the players just are not accustomed to getting hit as much and become more fragile because of it ...who knows for sure what the " right answer " really is

Yea, I've said that from the beginning. Less practice in pads isn't going to work out the way that they thought.

They were talking on the radio today about how there are far more concussions this year than there's ever been before. I'm sure that part of that is because they simply weren't reported in the past but the frequency does seem to be up.

I-Want-Troy's-Hair
11-19-2012, 11:07 PM
Oh great, even Cotchery is injured

Yeah and Cotchery's injured his ribs........what is it with ribs this week........grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Dwinsgames
11-19-2012, 11:15 PM
Yeah and Cotchery's injured his ribs........what is it with ribs this week........grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


ribs are the new injury introduced by the league by forcing defenders to concentrate their hits below the shoulder and above the knees , once they tire of these injuries the players will be forced to pull the red tag off the hip of the offensive players instead of hitting them at all

oneforthetoe
11-19-2012, 11:16 PM
Well, as the saying goes, hopefully he will be a shot in the arm to our passing game?

Arm? Whatever

bayz101
11-20-2012, 01:29 AM
Oh joy, an older and slower version of Wallace.

Wallace is a 6'5 Red-Zone target? I wouldn't compare him to Wallace whatsoever.

LLT
11-20-2012, 01:36 AM
LOL. This thread could get ugly.

If we get him for vet min he may be worth a second "shot"

You have to think that the FO will question him thouroughly before "pulling the trigger".

Steeldude
11-20-2012, 03:25 AM
Wallace is a 6'5 Red-Zone target? I wouldn't compare him to Wallace whatsoever.

He was not good in the red zone when he was here. Rarely did he jump and/or extend is arms to make the most of his height. Perhaps he has improved since being in NY.

plenewken
11-20-2012, 05:54 AM
The NFL is turning into a ribs festival, consequence of the new rule banning helmet to helmet contact.

bayz101
11-20-2012, 06:02 AM
He was not good in the red zone when he was here. Rarely did he jump and/or extend is arms to make the most of his height. Perhaps he has improved since being in NY.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d825305c1/QB-Sanchez-to-WR-Burress-9-yd-pass-TD
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8248052f/Burress-TD-ties-it-up
http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d82418eb7/QB-Sanchez-to-WR-Burress-7-yd-pass-TD

Dwinsgames
11-20-2012, 11:33 AM
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter (https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamSchefter?p=s)
3m (https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/270942060150915072?p=p)


After watching wide receiver Plaxico Burress workout today, thePittsburgh Steelers plan to sign him.



View details (https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/270942060150915072?p=v) · (https://mobile.twitter.com/statuses/270942060150915072/retweet) (https://mobile.twitter.com/statuses/270942060150915072/favorite?authenticity_token=91b7d105def2714b640b)




looks like the visit was more than a steak dinner and exchange of pleasantries

86WARD
11-20-2012, 11:52 AM
Tomlin said the Burress workout went well. Also said Brown had a nice workout today.

polamalubeast
11-20-2012, 11:55 AM
#Steelers expected to announce signings of WR Plaxico Burress and QB Brian Hoyer today.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Steelersdepot/status/270948059465281536?p=v

86WARD
11-20-2012, 11:58 AM
Like both of those signings if they occur.

polamalubeast
11-20-2012, 12:13 PM
Someone w/ knowledge of Plaxico Burress' contract situation tells me... The contract will be w/ Steelers. He is signing now

https://mobile.twitter.com/AKinkhabwala

steel striker
11-20-2012, 12:17 PM
Sounds like Plaxaglass is back.

bayz101
11-20-2012, 12:36 PM
Ed B. reporting on twitter he's officially signed. Welcome back, Plax.

fansince'76
11-20-2012, 12:36 PM
Funny...thought the 'Burgh was too "racist" (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steeler-notebook-contract-progress-crawls-for-ward-597897/) for him. No, Plexiglass, some of us haven't forgotten. Can't say I'm pleased with the signing, but I guess we're desperate.

polamalubeast
11-20-2012, 12:39 PM
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/its-official-steelers-sign-burress-add-qb-662942/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

X-Terminator
11-20-2012, 12:43 PM
Thread title updated...

polamalubeast
11-20-2012, 12:43 PM
In his only season playing w/ Roethlisberger (2004), Plaxico Burress avg 20.5 yards per catch on throws from Big Ben: 33 Rec, 676 yds, 5 TD

https://mobile.twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/270959834759831552?p=v

fansince'76
11-20-2012, 12:47 PM
In his only season playing w/ Roethlisberger (2004), Plaxico Burress avg 20.5 yards per catch on throws from Big Ben: 33 Rec, 676 yds, 5 TD

https://mobile.twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/270959834759831552?p=v

And an alligator-armed drop of a sure TD in an embarrassing AFCCG loss and a selfish and childish on-camera poutfest for "not gettin' enough touches" in the locker room afterward...

Edman
11-20-2012, 12:54 PM
I wonder if Pittsburgh is still too "Racist" for him.

I guess we couldn't have done better. Welcome back Plax...Ugh.

fansince'76
11-20-2012, 12:59 PM
A bit off-topic, but I'm glad I dug up that old P-G article - forgot all about this:


Hines Ward wore an interesting outfit into the Steelers' locker room yesterday. His baseball cap shrieked "Texas Chainsaw Massacre." His T-shirt, in large letters, boasted: "Can't Sell Dope Forever."

"No," Ward was quick to answer, laughing, "I don't sell dope."

There was a message there, somewhere, and it has something to do with his stalled contract extension talks, but he preferred to let reporters and fans try to figure it out.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Devilsdancefloor
11-20-2012, 01:07 PM
I guess if he doesnt spike the ball after a catch i can almost stomach this.... does lefty and cotchery go on IR?

lilyoder6
11-20-2012, 01:50 PM
i wanted to buy a b&g t.o jersey :(

Dwinsgames
11-20-2012, 01:51 PM
To make room on the roster the Steelers have released running back Baron Batch (http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/baron-batch/b18ae6d7-8bc6-488c-b73e-d55d99d6e045/) and linebacker Marshall McFadden (http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/marshall-mcfadden/5226f737-b5b2-430c-b8a6-3d2cf241f56b/)

NJarhead
11-20-2012, 02:15 PM
So do we switch to a run & "shoot" offense now? :chuckle:

Sorry....had to.

Dwinsgames
11-20-2012, 02:20 PM
at least we kept the Best Of the Batch ....:cool:

fansince'76
11-20-2012, 02:25 PM
Sucks that we release a kid like this (http://baronbatch.com/blog/) in exchange for a giant douchebag like this (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-11/plaxico-burress-ordered-to-disclose-finances-by-broward-judge).

zulater
11-20-2012, 02:29 PM
Sucks that we released a kid like this (http://baronbatch.com/blog/) in exchange for a giant douchebag like this (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-11/plaxico-burress-ordered-to-disclose-finances-by-broward-judge).

So true. Hopefully we'll see Baron back in a Steeler uniform soon.

By the way this puts us down another player on special teams.

polamalubeast
11-20-2012, 02:30 PM
Sucks that we released a kid like this in exchange for a giant douchebag like this (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-11/plaxico-burress-ordered-to-disclose-finances-by-broward-judge).


I think you would have liked better to have Terrell Owens that Burress!

Dwinsgames
11-20-2012, 02:30 PM
Sucks that we released a kid like this (http://baronbatch.com/blog/) in exchange for a giant douchebag like this (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-11/plaxico-burress-ordered-to-disclose-finances-by-broward-judge).


I must agree Barron Batch is a quality individual from everything I have read on him and heard him say in interviews however .....

he is only averaging 2 yards per carry and we currently need healthy bodies at WR more than we need them at RB at this moment in time

fansince'76
11-20-2012, 02:38 PM
So do we switch to a run & "shoot" offense now? :chuckle:

Sorry....had to.

NJarhead, ladies and gentlemen. He'll be here all week. Don't forget to try the veal! :chuckle:

GBMelBlount
11-20-2012, 02:45 PM
Sucks that we release a kid like this (http://baronbatch.com/blog/) in exchange for a giant douchebag like this (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-11/plaxico-burress-ordered-to-disclose-finances-by-broward-judge).

Too bad we can't swap their brains out....

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQIGeCggp2Xk0BJfy9KfFomosDGYfGMz-1PAx9-lMYQGamY5FOC

fansince'76
11-20-2012, 02:51 PM
Too bad we can't swap their brains out....

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQIGeCggp2Xk0BJfy9KfFomosDGYfGMz-1PAx9-lMYQGamY5FOC


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMpODxbvX8I

:lol: :lol: :lol:

stillers4me
11-20-2012, 04:41 PM
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/21639_10151380700010809_562723278_n.jpg

stillers4me
11-20-2012, 04:46 PM
SportsCenter‏@SportsCenterThe last time Plaxico Burress played a game for the Steelers? January 23, 2005 (41-27 AFC championship loss to NE).

steeldawg
11-20-2012, 04:50 PM
Love this signing, its an upgrade over cotchery!

stillers4me
11-20-2012, 04:53 PM
Baron Batch‏@baron_batch
Haha that awkward moment....when you get tweeted that you've been fired lol. Jk jk but in all reality hopefully I'll be back soon!

I hope we get him back, too!

steeldawg
11-20-2012, 04:54 PM
Im not really that upset over losing baron batch we are very deep a running back, we dont really need him.

stillers4me
11-20-2012, 04:57 PM
Im not really that upset over losing baron batch we are very deep a running back, we dont really need him.


That could change in one game.

steeldawg
11-20-2012, 05:01 PM
That could change in one game.

i guess but when you bring in a guy that will impact the game its worth getting rid of a 5th stringer.

- - - Updated - - -


That could change in one game.

i guess but when you bring in a guy that will impact the game its worth getting rid of a 5th stringer.

polamalubeast
11-20-2012, 05:07 PM
i guess but when you bring in a guy that will impact the game its worth getting rid of a 5th stringer.

impact the game????.....I do not think.....Burress has 35 years old, not 27 years old....He was unemployed for a good reason

The only reason why that Burress is with the Steelers is because of the injuries of Cotch and Antonio

steelreserve
11-20-2012, 05:13 PM
Sucks that we release a kid like this (http://baronbatch.com/blog/) in exchange for a giant douchebag like this (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-11/plaxico-burress-ordered-to-disclose-finances-by-broward-judge).

That's one of the risks of having 5 RBs plus a fullback on the active roster, I guess. And now 4 QBs also. Hopefully we pick Batch back up when Ben is ready to play, and either lose the new guy or put Leftwich on IR.

steeldawg
11-20-2012, 05:16 PM
impact the game????.....I do not think.....Burress has 35 years old, not 27 years old....He was unemployed for a good reason

The only reason why that Burress is with the Steelers is because of the injuries of Cotch and Antonio
he will have a bigger impact than cotchery will, which shouldnt be hard considering he really hasnt done anything. Also even if hes not on the field for every snap he will be making appearances in the redzone.

Dwinsgames
11-20-2012, 05:31 PM
what many seem to be forgetting is Barron Batch 25 carries for 49 yards and 1 td basically 2.0 Yards per carry ... Put the quality of the individual aside here players are paid to play football not author a very nice website saying all the right things .....

Is Baron Batch as a person better than Plax ? no question about it

does Baron Batch help this football team win on Sundays more than Plax can considering we have hurt WR's ? absolutely not

fansince'76
11-20-2012, 05:39 PM
what many seem to be forgetting is Barron Batch 25 carries for 49 yards and 1 td basically 2.0 Yards per carry ... Put the quality of the individual aside here players are paid to play football not author a very nice website saying all the right things .....

Is Baron Batch as a person better than Plax ? no question about it

does Baron Batch help this football team win on Sundays more than Plax can considering we have hurt WR's ? absolutely not

Yep, I know it's all a numbers game. Doesn't mean I have to like it. I think it also speaks volumes that Burress remained unsigned 2/3 through the season until our WR corps became a MASH unit.

Psycho Ward 86
11-20-2012, 06:30 PM
not sure what this obsession is with baron batch, thats great if he's a nice guy but theres a lot of those out there and not a lot of them have what it takes to be an asset as an nfl runningback. he's had 2 acl tears and has never looked particularly good. never heard of a runningback being successful after 2 acl tears. Not even some of the great ones like Deuce Mcallister. And thats a pro bowl runningback. Batch is a 7th rounder for a reason. He was going to be LUCKY to be good for any team as just a 3rd down back. He's soft against contact and his cuts look pathetic, and i dont blame him one bit. Good kid, poor running back. I was rooting for him up until the 2nd acl tear. thats death for an nfl player, particularly runningbacks

fansince'76
11-20-2012, 06:32 PM
not sure what this obsession is with baron batch, thats great if he's a nice guy but theres a lot of those out there and not a lot of them have what it takes to be an asset as an nfl runningback. he's had 2 acl tears and has never looked particularly good. never heard of a runningback being successful after 2 acl tears. Not even some of the great ones like Deuce Mcallister. And thats a pro bowl runningback. Batch is a 7th rounder for a reason. He was going to be LUCKY to be good for any team as just a 3rd down back. He's soft against contact and his cuts look pathetic, and i dont blame him one bit. Good kid, poor running back. I was rooting for him up until the 2nd acl tear. thats death for an nfl player, particularly runningbacks

Again, not so much that he was cut, but WHO he was cut for.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MOLTEwz4T0Y/SUBG6OyPUEI/AAAAAAAAAOg/b6r_lvoM_Ow/s320/plax.bmp

:chuckle:

stillers4me
11-20-2012, 06:33 PM
Plaxico Burress‏@pIaxico
I am incredibly thankful that the Pittsburgh Steelers organization has welcomed me back. I will give it my all to help us win a championship

Psycho Ward 86
11-20-2012, 06:35 PM
Again, not so much that he was cut, but WHO he was cut for.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MOLTEwz4T0Y/SUBG6OyPUEI/AAAAAAAAAOg/b6r_lvoM_Ow/s320/plax.bmp

:chuckle:
http://images.wikia.com/glee/images/1/10/True_story_barney.jpg

Dwinsgames
11-20-2012, 06:35 PM
not sure what this obsession is with baron batch, thats great if he's a nice guy but theres a lot of those out there and not a lot of them have what it takes to be an asset as an nfl runningback. he's had 2 acl tears and has never looked particularly good. never heard of a runningback being successful after 2 acl tears. Not even some of the great ones like Deuce Mcallister. And thats a pro bowl runningback. Batch is a 7th rounder for a reason. He was going to be LUCKY to be good for any team as just a 3rd down back. He's soft against contact and his cuts look pathetic, and i dont blame him one bit. Good kid, poor running back. I was rooting for him up until the 2nd acl tear. thats death for an nfl player, particularly runningbacks


honestly the hype has to have come from Latrobe in last years training camp where he looked phenomenal , since his return from season ending knee surgery ( as you stated is usually the case with double knee surgeries ) he has looked slow in and out of his cuts and is a shadow of the kid who took Latrobe by storm last year ..... its a shame , but it is also a reality

Psycho Ward 86
11-20-2012, 06:41 PM
honestly the hype has to have come from Latrobe in last years training camp where he looked phenomenal , since his return from season ending knee surgery ( as you stated is usually the case with double knee surgeries ) he has looked slow in and out of his cuts and is a shadow of the kid who took Latrobe by storm last year ..... its a shame , but it is also a reality

Must be. A lot of it came from literally one play where he decently blocked James Harrison and Arians got all giddy. Theres footage of it on steelers.com somewhere. wasnt even that big of a deal. Literally one play. In practice.

Hopefully if we keep Mendenhall he can at least manage to greatly outplay dwyer and redman as a 3rd down back so we dont have to go soul searching for another one.

JayC
11-20-2012, 06:43 PM
can be a good move if ben returns in time for a playoff run, but until then this move will do nothing to help us

Devilsdancefloor
11-20-2012, 06:56 PM
Im not really that upset over losing baron batch we are very deep a running back, we dont really need him.

so who is gonna fill the ST duties? plex?

Count Steeler
11-20-2012, 06:59 PM
so who is gonna fill the ST duties? plex?


Van Dyke will be back, and he should be good for at least 1 hold.

steeldawg
11-20-2012, 07:00 PM
so who is gonna fill the ST duties? plex?


Ya because we will nevver be able to find another ST talent like baron batch.

Dwinsgames
11-20-2012, 07:10 PM
Ya because we will nevver be able to find another ST talent like baron batch.


ahh the sarcasm is starting to drip now , dang you got my arm soaked with that one LOL

steeldawg
11-20-2012, 07:28 PM
ahh the sarcasm is starting to drip now , dang you got my arm soaked with that one LOL

well I thought the question was worthy of a sarcastic answer.

Devilsdancefloor
11-20-2012, 07:53 PM
Ya because we will nevver be able to find another ST talent like baron batch.

Has nothing to do with finding it , it has to do with finding it on our roster, who is gonna replace his ST play? It is clearly the weakest link of the steelers 3 phases. plax might surprise us, but i am not holding my breath for a over the hill WR who pouts when he doesnt get 'his" fair share of catches.

vader29
11-20-2012, 07:53 PM
Only thing to say to Plaxico other than good luck on your return stint as a Steeler is to please stay away from guns while you are here. :chuckle:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpgL5kuBpMA

tube517
11-20-2012, 08:42 PM
Now that Ben is out, Haley will yell at Plaxico now. This was all a Haley signing. :chuckle:

Seven
11-20-2012, 10:29 PM
I know the idea would have gotten shit on, but I felt like he would have been a worthwhile signing before Cotch & Brown were hurt. He should really help our production in the redzone if Haley plays him inside the 20's. If he makes it past a week with the team, that is - which is doubtful at this point.

Craic
11-21-2012, 12:07 AM
Only thing to say to Plaxico other than good luck on your return stint as a Steeler is to please stay away from guns while you are here. :chuckle:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpgL5kuBpMA

Thanks . . . that was quite funny.

Steeldude
11-21-2012, 01:29 AM
Let's see, the Steelers get...


A WR with average to poor hands

A lazy work ethic

A headcase

Average speed

Poor fundamentals

Poor effort on the field


What a find :thumbsup:

I can't wait to see him alligator-arming passes again. Maybe, just maybe he will put forth effort since he is out of a job.

Seven
11-21-2012, 01:57 AM
Let's see, the Steelers get...


A WR with average to poor hands
A lazy work ethic
A headcase
Average speed
Poor fundamentals
Poor effort on the field



The highlighted aren't characteristics of Burress.

steeldawg
11-21-2012, 05:06 AM
Let's see, the Steelers get...


A WR with average to poor hands

A lazy work ethic



A headcase

Average speed

Poor fundamentals

Poor effort on the field


What a find :thumbsup:

I can't wait to see him alligator-arming passes again. Maybe, just maybe he will put forth effort since he is out of a job.

He was the number 1 on a superbowl winning team. He caught 6 tds last season with sanchez throwing the ball, i think he could help us in the redzone. Even though you talk about him not being good in the redzone he ranked in the top 10 in all major redzone categories. Who cares about these "fundamentals" you talk about, Its about getting open and scoring if you can do that what do the fundamentals matter. Im sure cotchery has wonderful fundamentals but what does that do for us, I dont here defenses gameplanning for a guy because he has dangerous fundamentals.

steeldawg
11-21-2012, 05:11 AM
Has nothing to do with finding it , it has to do with finding it on our roster, who is gonna replace his ST play? It is clearly the weakest link of the steelers 3 phases. plax might surprise us, but i am not holding my breath for a over the hill WR who pouts when he doesnt get 'his" fair share of catches.

I dont think batch is a standout talent on special teams, it shouldnt be hard to find another guy on our roster to plug in. I mean we are talking about a redzone target vs a 5th string back who plays special teams. We are gonna be in a dogfight to make the playoffs i would rather have the personel thats going to have an impact.

GBMelBlount
11-21-2012, 06:15 AM
I think once he puts down his gun and crack pipe and gets on the field he will be fine.

I am actually optimistic that he will make some positive contributions on the field..

stillers4me
11-21-2012, 06:31 AM
ummmmmmmmm....didn't that 5th ( which is actually 4th by my count, I could be wrong and I'm sure you'll let me know :chuckle:)string back get pressed into service a couple of weeks ago with Mendy out and Redman injured? That left us with Dwyer and Batch. Who am I forgetting?

LLT
11-21-2012, 07:19 AM
ummmmmmmmm....didn't that 5th ( which is actually 4th by my count, I could be wrong and I'm sure you'll let me know :chuckle:)string back get pressed into service a couple of weeks ago with Mendy out and Redman injured? That left us with Dwyer and Batch. Who am I forgetting?

Rainey

Steeldude
11-21-2012, 07:19 AM
He was the number 1 on a superbowl winning team. He caught 6 tds last season with sanchez throwing the ball, i think he could help us in the redzone. Even though you talk about him not being good in the redzone he ranked in the top 10 in all major redzone categories. Who cares about these "fundamentals" you talk about, Its about getting open and scoring if you can do that what do the fundamentals matter. Im sure cotchery has wonderful fundamentals but what does that do for us, I dont here defenses gameplanning for a guy because he has dangerous fundamentals.

How good would Jack Lambert have been without his fundamentals? How good would Heath Miller be without his fundamentals? How good would Moss be without his fundamentals? Where would Welker be without his fundamentals? Or, to take a different sport, how good would Larry Bird have been without his fundamentals? Can you answer those questions or will you dodge them as you so often do? Having sound fundamentals is what makes a person dangerous, as well as athletic ability and mental prowess. How do you not know this?


Who cares about these "fundamentals" you talk about

Coaches, scouts, GMs, team owners etc... Why do you disregard fundamentals? Where do most potential players end up without having sound fundamentals?


Im sure cotchery has wonderful fundamentals but what does that do for us

It would make him a good option to have come off the bench.

Perhaps Burress has learned to be a better WR in the red zone, but he wasn't good when he was on our roster the last time. I can still picture him trying to catch the lob in the red zone against two shorter DBs from the Jets. What did Burress do? Instead of extending arms to make the most of his height he decided to catch the ball with his chest. The two 5' 9" DBs easily defended the pass attempt. Good job, Burress. Burress played like he was 5' 9" when he was here.

venom
11-21-2012, 07:21 AM
Guess Plax saw our jail house uniforms and had to sign with us , lol

LLT
11-21-2012, 07:32 AM
Im not really that upset over losing baron batch we are very deep a running back, we dont really need him.

Then you havent been paying attention. Batch is easily our best blocking RB and has been used over and over again to help Adams on the right side with speed rushers. Look for McFadden to be added to the Practice squad...due to injuries to Sly and Carter...Batch may be inelgible due to having played in 10 games. I will see if SU can get a line out to him and find out for sure.

X-Terminator
11-21-2012, 07:42 AM
Perhaps Burress has learned to be a better WR in the red zone, but he wasn't good when he was on our roster the last time. I can still picture him trying to catch the lob in the red zone against two shorter DBs from the Jets. What did Burress do? Instead of extending arms to make the most of his height he decided to catch the ball with his chest. The two 5' 9" DBs easily defended the pass attempt. Good job, Burress. Burress played like he was 5' 9" when he was here.

He has learned to do that better over the years, which is what made him one of the best red zone targets for several years before his bonehead actions got him in trouble. He is not the same player in that regard that he was during his first stint here, except that he is older and slower. I'm not a huge fan of the guy, just pointing this out.

steel striker
11-21-2012, 08:34 AM
let's see how Plax does this weekend before we rush to judge.

LLT
11-21-2012, 08:58 AM
I will see if SU can get a line out to him and find out for sure.

Just got in contact with Baron...He expects a call back today if he clears waivers and will be reactivated when everyone is healthy. That Folks...is a Steelers Universe exclusive.

Dwinsgames
11-21-2012, 09:41 AM
He caught 6 tds last season with sanchez throwing the ball.


actually 8 ...

steelerdude15
11-21-2012, 09:49 AM
As long as he doesn't cause any issues, I'll be fine with him.

Nadroj 20
11-21-2012, 09:51 AM
I think it will be alright in this situation. Once Brown gets back Burress may not play much. Just a wait and see approach for me.

Dwinsgames
11-21-2012, 09:56 AM
I think it will be alright in this situation. Once Brown gets back Burress may not play much. Just a wait and see approach for me.

I do not believe they picked him up with the intent of throwing him to the wolves as an every down WR ...

I think it is more to do with the number 4 WR pos than anything else , Cotchery got whacked pretty good and those ribs could keep him out a month ... I think Brown returns this week or next and Plax becomes a redzone substitution and 4th WR when he does .... nothing more nothing less

Dwinsgames
11-21-2012, 10:41 AM
Burress, who will wear No. 80, told Ross Tucker on Sirius XM radio Wednesday that the Steelers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT) have designed a red-zone package (https://twitter.com/RossTuckerNFL/status/271242473920143360) for him. With Charlie Batch (http://www.nfl.com/player/charliebatch/2499567/profile) starting at quarterback against the Browns (http://www.nfl.com/teams/clevelandbrowns/profile?team=CLE) and Burress at wide receiver, it's going to feel a lot like the 2004 Steelers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT).

as I expected

X-Terminator
11-21-2012, 01:45 PM
Just got in contact with Baron...He expects a call back today if he clears waivers and will be reactivated when everyone is healthy. That Folks...is a Steelers Universe exclusive.

I figured this would be the case. Thanks for the update!

Shoes
11-21-2012, 01:49 PM
Just got in contact with Baron...He expects a call back today if he clears waivers and will be reactivated when everyone is healthy. That Folks...is a Steelers Universe exclusive.

Great news LLT...keep us posted!

Dwinsgames
11-21-2012, 04:16 PM
Plax interview http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Plaxico-Burress---1121/9553a5ce-1e06-4b93-b627-6419f3748a6b

Craic
11-21-2012, 04:53 PM
Thanks for the link to the interview.

I'll say this much, he sure sounds like he's grown up. I really like the part where he said that the first thing he did was grabbed the playbook and started asking questions.

I also like the way he answered a number of questions about his past. Especially that if you keep focusing on the what happened you won't be able to focus on what's coming, or something to that effect.

Welcome home, Plax. Let's hope you grasp the playbook fast and help Batch put up a few TD's.

Dwinsgames
11-21-2012, 05:19 PM
Thanks for the link to the interview.




I do what I can , and Yes Plax seemed dare I say Humble ?

Psycho Ward 86
11-21-2012, 05:50 PM
Then you havent been paying attention. Batch is easily our best blocking RB and has been used over and over again to help Adams on the right side with speed rushers. Look for McFadden to be added to the Practice squad...due to injuries to Sly and Carter...Batch may be inelgible due to having played in 10 games. I will see if SU can get a line out to him and find out for sure.

he's useless compared to what rainey, redman, dwyer, and mendenhall bring to the table. 5 runningbacks on the roster? Plus fullback(s)? No thanks lol. He can be the best blocking back in the league but if thats all he can do he shouldnt be getting a job here. Mendenhall does fine in that department, and werent there plenty of reports of dwyer being a much improved blocker in the offseason as well?

steeldawg
11-21-2012, 06:01 PM
I think it will be alright in this situation. Once Brown gets back Burress may not play much. Just a wait and see approach for me.

no but he will in the redzone because we brown is not a threat in the redzone

vader29
11-21-2012, 06:08 PM
Dejan Kovacevic‏@Dejan_Kovacevic

I can tell you this unequivocally: If you're wondering if Plax is in shape, DON'T. He is positively ripped.

steeldawg
11-21-2012, 06:11 PM
Then you havent been paying attention. Batch is easily our best blocking RB and has been used over and over again to help Adams on the right side with speed rushers. Look for McFadden to be added to the Practice squad...due to injuries to Sly and Carter...Batch may be inelgible due to having played in 10 games. I will see if SU can get a line out to him and find out for sure.

Hes hardly on the field, you act like we are using him all the time on passing downs.

Dwinsgames
11-21-2012, 06:24 PM
Dejan Kovacevic‏@Dejan_Kovacevic

I can tell you this unequivocally: If you're wondering if Plax is in shape, DON'T. He is positively ripped.


:thumbsup:

GBMelBlount
11-21-2012, 06:25 PM
Dejan Kovacevic‏@Dejan_Kovacevic

I can tell you this unequivocally: If you're wondering if Plax is in shape, DON'T. He is positively ripped.

By some definitions Manute Bol was pretty "ripped" too... :chuckle:

I guess we will know soon enough.

Steeldude
11-21-2012, 07:26 PM
The highlighted aren't characteristics of Burress.

You clearly didn't watch Burress when he was here.

- - - Updated - - -

Where did you go, Steeldawg?


He was the number 1 on a superbowl winning team. He caught 6 tds last season with sanchez throwing the ball, i think he could help us in the redzone. Even though you talk about him not being good in the redzone he ranked in the top 10 in all major redzone categories. Who cares about these "fundamentals" you talk about, Its about getting open and scoring if you can do that what do the fundamentals matter. Im sure cotchery has wonderful fundamentals but what does that do for us, I dont here defenses gameplanning for a guy because he has dangerous fundamentals.

How good would Jack Lambert have been without his fundamentals? How good would Heath Miller be without his fundamentals? How good would Moss be without his fundamentals? Where would Welker be without his fundamentals? Or, to take a different sport, how good would Larry Bird have been without his fundamentals? Can you answer those questions or will you dodge them as you so often do? Having sound fundamentals is what makes a person dangerous, as well as athletic ability and mental prowess. How do you not know this?


Who cares about these "fundamentals" you talk about

Coaches, scouts, GMs, team owners etc... Why do you disregard fundamentals? Where do most potential players end up without having sound fundamentals?


Im sure cotchery has wonderful fundamentals but what does that do for us

It would make him a good option to have come off the bench.

Perhaps Burress has learned to be a better WR in the red zone, but he wasn't good when he was on our roster the last time. I can still picture him trying to catch the lob in the red zone against two shorter DBs from the Jets. What did Burress do? Instead of extending arms to make the most of his height he decided to catch the ball with his chest. The two 5' 9" DBs easily defended the pass attempt. Good job, Burress. Burress played like he was 5' 9" when he was here.

steeldawg
11-21-2012, 08:44 PM
You clearly didn't watch Burress when he was here.

- - - Updated - - -

Where did you go, Steeldawg?



How good would Jack Lambert have been without his fundamentals? How good would Heath Miller be without his fundamentals? How good would Moss be without his fundamentals? Where would Welker be without his fundamentals? Or, to take a different sport, how good would Larry Bird have been without his fundamentals? Can you answer those questions or will you dodge them as you so often do? Having sound fundamentals is what makes a person dangerous, as well as athletic ability and mental prowess. How do you not know this?



Coaches, scouts, GMs, team owners etc... Why do you disregard fundamentals? Where do most potential players end up without having sound fundamentals?



It would make him a good option to have come off the bench.

Perhaps Burress has learned to be a better WR in the red zone, but he wasn't good when he was on our roster the last time. I can still picture him trying to catch the lob in the red zone against two shorter DBs from the Jets. What did Burress do? Instead of extending arms to make the most of his height he decided to catch the ball with his chest. The two 5' 9" DBs easily defended the pass attempt. Good job, Burress. Burress played like he was 5' 9" when he was here.

First i never have dodged anyones questions. As far as fundamentals go, these players come up through the ranks all being taught very similar fundamentals, what seperates them is talent. There are plenty of guys in the nba who have a perfect fundamental jump shot but dont shoot it as well as bird. There are lots of athletes who are fundamentally sound but its the talented ones that make it, fundamentals dont make you good at sports they only fine tune your game. Just look at pros in baseball and you will see some of the worst fundamentals in the world, but where do the players keep coming from, latin america and they play on sand fields and hit with sticks but they make it because of raw talent and ability there is no substitute for it.

steeldawg
11-21-2012, 08:49 PM
You clearly didn't watch Burress when he was here.

- - - Updated - - -

Where did you go, Steeldawg?



How good would Jack Lambert have been without his fundamentals? How good would Heath Miller be without his fundamentals? How good would Moss be without his fundamentals? Where would Welker be without his fundamentals? Or, to take a different sport, how good would Larry Bird have been without his fundamentals? Can you answer those questions or will you dodge them as you so often do? Having sound fundamentals is what makes a person dangerous, as well as athletic ability and mental prowess. How do you not know this?



Coaches, scouts, GMs, team owners etc... Why do you disregard fundamentals? Where do most potential players end up without having sound fundamentals?



It would make him a good option to have come off the bench.

Perhaps Burress has learned to be a better WR in the red zone, but he wasn't good when he was on our roster the last time. I can still picture him trying to catch the lob in the red zone against two shorter DBs from the Jets. What did Burress do? Instead of extending arms to make the most of his height he decided to catch the ball with his chest. The two 5' 9" DBs easily defended the pass attempt. Good job, Burress. Burress played like he was 5' 9" when he was here.


Heres a perfect example jerricho cothery versus plaxico burress, cothery you would say has solid fundamentals and burress you said has poor fundamentals. Well comparing the two careers cotchery couldnt hold burresses jock strap.

Psycho Ward 86
11-21-2012, 09:52 PM
You clearly didn't watch Burress when he was here.

- - - Updated - - -

Where did you go, Steeldawg?



How good would Jack Lambert have been without his fundamentals? How good would Heath Miller be without his fundamentals? How good would Moss be without his fundamentals? Where would Welker be without his fundamentals? Or, to take a different sport, how good would Larry Bird have been without his fundamentals? Can you answer those questions or will you dodge them as you so often do? Having sound fundamentals is what makes a person dangerous, as well as athletic ability and mental prowess. How do you not know this?



Coaches, scouts, GMs, team owners etc... Why do you disregard fundamentals? Where do most potential players end up without having sound fundamentals?



It would make him a good option to have come off the bench.

Perhaps Burress has learned to be a better WR in the red zone, but he wasn't good when he was on our roster the last time. I can still picture him trying to catch the lob in the red zone against two shorter DBs from the Jets. What did Burress do? Instead of extending arms to make the most of his height he decided to catch the ball with his chest. The two 5' 9" DBs easily defended the pass attempt. Good job, Burress. Burress played like he was 5' 9" when he was here.

im a neutral party but this post reminds me of this little incident:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI

:lol:

SteelGhost
11-21-2012, 09:58 PM
I don't know how to feel about this because it's a mystery if Plex can be helpful or not, but certainly I don't like to see Baron go. :no:

Shoes
11-21-2012, 10:07 PM
I hope he does well.....

Steeldude
11-21-2012, 11:49 PM
First i never have dodged anyones questions. As far as fundamentals go, these players come up through the ranks all being taught very similar fundamentals, what seperates them is talent. There are plenty of guys in the nba who have a perfect fundamental jump shot but dont shoot it as well as bird. There are lots of athletes who are fundamentally sound but its the talented ones that make it, fundamentals dont make you good at sports they only fine tune your game. Just look at pros in baseball and you will see some of the worst fundamentals in the world, but where do the players keep coming from, latin america and they play on sand fields and hit with sticks but they make it because of raw talent and ability there is no substitute for it.

You dodge questions quite often. You just dodged more questions.


There are plenty of guys in the nba who have a perfect fundamental jump shot but dont shoot it as well as bird

You seem to be misunderstanding the scope of the term "fundamentals".


fundamentals dont make you good at sports they only fine tune your game

Fundamentals are the core.


and they play on sand fields and hit with sticks

Which taught them the fundamentals they needed to play. Do you realize why they have hitting coaches and drills. Wallace is getting by on speed, not much else.


As far as fundamentals go, these players come up through the ranks all being taught very similar fundamentals, what seperates them is talent

You didn't answer the question. Let's try again. How good would Jack Lambert have been without his fundamentals? How good would Heath Miller be without his fundamentals? How good would Moss be without his fundamentals? Where would Welker be without his fundamentals? The question is how good would they be without the fundamentals you say aren't important?

As I said before, having sound fundamentals is what makes a person dangerous(or more dangerous), as well as athletic ability and mental prowess. How do you not know this?

LLT
11-22-2012, 12:55 AM
he's useless compared to what rainey, redman, dwyer, and mendenhall bring to the table. 5 runningbacks on the roster? Plus fullback(s)? No thanks lol. He can be the best blocking back in the league but if thats all he can do he shouldnt be getting a job here. Mendenhall does fine in that department, and werent there plenty of reports of dwyer being a much improved blocker in the offseason as well?

Mendenhall?.....really?

Besides protecting Ben from the speed rushers coming in from his right side...Batch has also sprung two touchdowns with his downfield blocking. He is the epitome of the player that does all the little things right without seeking accolades.


He can be the best blocking back in the league but if thats all he can do he shouldnt be getting a job here.

Have you seen our offensive line? I cant imagine you believe that statement.

LLT
11-22-2012, 01:01 AM
Hes hardly on the field, you act like we are using him all the time on passing downs.

Uh....no.

Often on passing downs we have an "empty backfield". No matter how long you look.....you wont find him there.... Hence the word..."empty"


Please refrain from putting words in my mouth...it makes you look silly.

Had you actually looked it up you would see that he has more carries than Rainy (almost as many as Mendenall)...and his 7.8 ypc...is the highest of any of the RB's who have played on third downs. But he is used primarily on those passing plays in which Adams is having problems with speed rushers.

Seven
11-22-2012, 01:05 AM
Besides protecting Ben from the speed rushers coming in from his right side...Batch has also sprung two touchdowns with his downfield blocking. He is the epitome of the player that does all the little things right without seeking accolades.

I agree that Batch is good at many of the little things, and of course he's a great kid. But if I replace his persona with Chris Rainey's I just don't think I'd care about this cut. With the other quality ball carriers we have on this roster, is there really room for him? I don't think we can carry five tailbacks.

LLT
11-22-2012, 01:16 AM
I agree that Batch is good at many of the little things, and of course he's a great kid. But if I replace his persona with Chris Rainey's I just don't think I'd care about this cut. With the other quality ball carriers we have on this roster, is there really room for him? I don't think we can carry five tailbacks.

If Adams learns how to pass block the speed rushers.....I TOTALLY agree with this. But the reality of the situation is that Baron "currently" plays a needed role in this offence and is more of a factor on special teams then some on this site wish to acknowledge ... he has even served as a special teams captain.

Seven
11-22-2012, 01:30 AM
If Adams learns how to pass block the speed rushers.....I TOTALLY agree with this. But the reality of the situation is that Baron "currently" plays a needed role in this offence and is more of a factor on special teams then some on this site wish to acknowledge ... he has even served as a special teams captain.

I see your point, but they had to make a sacrifice somewhere. I just want Marcus Gilbert to get back because Adams needs out of the lineup as soon as possible.

steeldawg
11-22-2012, 01:42 AM
You dodge questions quite often. You just dodged more questions.



You seem to be misunderstanding the scope of the term "fundamentals".



Fundamentals are the core.



Which taught them the fundamentals they needed to play. Do you realize why they have hitting coaches and drills. Wallace is getting by on speed, not much else.



You didn't answer the question. Let's try again. How good would Jack Lambert have been without his fundamentals? How good would Heath Miller be without his fundamentals? How good would Moss be without his fundamentals? Where would Welker be without his fundamentals? The question is how good would they be without the fundamentals you say aren't important?

As I said before, having sound fundamentals is what makes a person dangerous(or more dangerous), as well as athletic ability and mental prowess. How do you not know this?



Im not dodging questions your asking me for hypothetical scenarios, how good would jack lambert be without fundamentals, the answer is i dont know and neither do you. Im not against fundamentals im against your emphasis on fundamentals and what you consider good fundamentals. Talent is the ultimate trump card, If fundamentals were the key to an athelete being successful at a professional level a guy like jericho cotchery would have been dominant. Instead guys like wallace and burress are successful receivers in the league, if they are so poor fundamentally how do they succeed. They said Randy moss was a bad route runner lacked discippline and work ethic, but this guy was an unreal talent. So again if you can score tds in this league teams will start you over a guy who cant regardless of your fundamentals or your scouting report.

LLT
11-22-2012, 02:43 AM
I see your point, but they had to make a sacrifice somewhere. I just want Marcus Gilbert to get back because Adams needs out of the lineup as soon as possible.

I personally think that Pope is the biggest waste of a roster slot. Terrible on ST's ...subpar blocker...and has 2 receptions for 8 yards.

Seven
11-22-2012, 02:55 AM
I personally think that Pope is the biggest waste of a roster slot. Terrible on ST's ...subpar blocker...and has 2 receptions for 8 yards.

Could be. I wonder how much time Will Johnson sees at tight end in practice. Probably not as much as he should. That's one area where I feel like this team misses DJ a lot. Pope would be an easy cut with a fullback who could double at tight, but I guess Leonard is a favorite of Coach Haley's anyway so it may be a moot point.

I'm excited to see Burress and Miller on the same side of the field inside the 20's. I do hope the coaches take advantage of Plax in the redzone while he's here. I'm a big fan of both Emmanuel & Dave Gilreath, and the '8 touchdown' stat has been beat into the ground over the last couple days, but it shouldn't be ignored.

steeldawg
11-22-2012, 08:10 AM
If Adams learns how to pass block the speed rushers.....I TOTALLY agree with this. But the reality of the situation is that Baron "currently" plays a needed role in this offence and is more of a factor on special teams then some on this site wish to acknowledge ... he has even served as a special teams captain.

No he doesnt or they wouldnt of cut him, he only averages 2 yards per carry and most of the time its heath miller helping adams which is evident in the drop in heaths numbers since gilbert went down. Acknowledge what on special teams what has he done? If the steelers thought they needed him to pass block or on special teams they would not of cut him, but they did cut him because they wanted the roster spot for a team need not a fifth stringer.

Steeldude
11-22-2012, 08:12 AM
Im not dodging questions your asking me for hypothetical scenarios, how good would jack lambert be without fundamentals, the answer is i dont know and neither do you. Im not against fundamentals im against your emphasis on fundamentals and what you consider good fundamentals. Talent is the ultimate trump card, If fundamentals were the key to an athelete being successful at a professional level a guy like jericho cotchery would have been dominant. Instead guys like wallace and burress are successful receivers in the league, if they are so poor fundamentally how do they succeed. They said Randy moss was a bad route runner lacked discippline and work ethic, but this guy was an unreal talent. So again if you can score tds in this league teams will start you over a guy who cant regardless of your fundamentals or your scouting report.


im against your emphasis on fundamentals

Fundamentals are the foundation. My emphasis is on the entire package. You disregard fundamentals by saying they are unimportant. Of course certain players get by on athletic ability or even size. Look at all of the athletic QBs who fail in the NFL or don't even make it. Remember the safety Scott Shields?


the answer is i dont know

So Jack Lambert would be the same if he didn't tackle as soundly as he did for his entire career? I do know the answer. He would have been far less of a LB.


If fundamentals were the key to an athelete being successful at a professional level a guy like jericho cotchery would have been dominant

I never said fundamentals are the only key. I even placed the keywords on what makes a player in bold font, but you still missed it.


if they are so poor fundamentally how do they succeed

Wallace gained stats because BR would run around for 8 seconds. Wallace only has his speed. Which why I asked you multiple times what does Wallace bring besides his 40 time. You never answered. Are you going to answer now? As for Burress, look how many times he was targeted? Up to 144 and 166 in some seasons. It's like Owens. Owens was an overrated WR who was targeted an absurd amount of times. Who isn't going to put up numbers when targeted that many times?

No one is saying players can't get by on a lack of fundamentals. Many players thrive in the NFL on athletic ability alone. Wallace's only athletic trait is his speed. His body control(agility) is not good. He is a straight-line runner who very rarely jumps in the air. Fundamentals are one of his problems. The real problem is what is he worth for what he brings. The guy didn't even try for the 3rd down reception in the Ravens' game. This is who you want to fork over a huge salary too? How lazy is he going to be when/if he signs the contract?

Randy Moss was fundamentally sound with his catching and shielding of DBs with his body. He caught the ball with his hands like you are supposed to. His problem was his attitude.

steeldawg
11-22-2012, 08:34 AM
Fundamentals are the foundation. My emphasis is on the entire package. You disregard fundamentals by saying they are unimportant. Of course certain players get by on athletic ability or even size. Look at all of the athletic QBs who fail in the NFL or don't even make it. Remember the safety Scott Shields?



So Jack Lambert would be the same if he didn't tackle as soundly as he did for his entire career? I do know the answer. He would have been far less of a LB.



I never said fundamentals are the only key. I even placed the keywords on what makes a player in bold font, but you still missed it.



Wallace gained stats because BR would run around for 8 seconds. Wallace only has his speed. Which why I asked you multiple times what does Wallace bring besides his 40 time. You never answered. Are you going to answer now? As for Burress, look how many times he was targeted? Up to 144 and 166 in some seasons. It's like Owens. Owens was an overrated WR who was targeted an absurd amount of times. Who isn't going to put up numbers when targeted that many times?

No one is saying players can't get by on a lack of fundamentals. Many players thrive in the NFL on athletic ability alone. Wallace's only athletic trait is his speed. His body control(agility) is not good. He is a straight-line runner who very rarely jumps in the air. Fundamentals are one of his problems. The real problem is what is he worth for what he brings. The guy didn't even try for the 3rd down reception in the Ravens' game. This is who you want to fork over a huge salary too? How lazy is he going to be when/if he signs the contract?

Randy Moss was fundamentally sound with his catching and shielding of DBs with his body. He caught the ball with his hands like you are supposed to. His problem was his attitude.


Exactly fundamentals is often trumped by talent, the qb position has more to due with the mental side of the game because you have to disect defense, but that arguement could either way because there are plenty of sound fundamental qbs who turn out to be terrible. Regardless of what you think makes a player or how bold you make it doesnt make it so. If you want to classify a guy with poor fundamentals and he catches double digit tds in season then who cares because this guy will be valuable to any team, and if you want to tell me about a guy that has great fundamentals but he only scores 2 times a year hes going to be less valuable. Its not that fundamentals dont matter to a players game, they dont matter when determining a players worth, thats determined by his production. there is a reason Ben like plax and Eli likes plax and it has nothing to do with fundamentals. Ben likes wallace, i dont think anyone would call wallace a technician out there but again if your scoring 8-10 tds a year thats production teams are willing to pay for. As far as Randy moss I didnt say those things about him that was a knock on him by other teams, randy moss was a raw athletic talent, in highschool he played baseball, football basketball and track and field. he was a wideout, db, punter, kicker, kick returner, and punt returner.Then his first year in the league he catches 17 tds just an absolute physical freak. He was not able to do those things because he was so fundamentally sound.

steeldawg
11-22-2012, 08:51 AM
Fundamentals are the foundation. My emphasis is on the entire package. You disregard fundamentals by saying they are unimportant. Of course certain players get by on athletic ability or even size. Look at all of the athletic QBs who fail in the NFL or don't even make it. Remember the safety Scott Shields?



So Jack Lambert would be the same if he didn't tackle as soundly as he did for his entire career? I do know the answer. He would have been far less of a LB.



I never said fundamentals are the only key. I even placed the keywords on what makes a player in bold font, but you still missed it.



Wallace gained stats because BR would run around for 8 seconds. Wallace only has his speed. Which why I asked you multiple times what does Wallace bring besides his 40 time. You never answered. Are you going to answer now? As for Burress, look how many times he was targeted? Up to 144 and 166 in some seasons. It's like Owens. Owens was an overrated WR who was targeted an absurd amount of times. Who isn't going to put up numbers when targeted that many times?

No one is saying players can't get by on a lack of fundamentals. Many players thrive in the NFL on athletic ability alone. Wallace's only athletic trait is his speed. His body control(agility) is not good. He is a straight-line runner who very rarely jumps in the air. Fundamentals are one of his problems. The real problem is what is he worth for what he brings. The guy didn't even try for the 3rd down reception in the Ravens' game. This is who you want to fork over a huge salary too? How lazy is he going to be when/if he signs the contract?

Randy Moss was fundamentally sound with his catching and shielding of DBs with his body. He caught the ball with his hands like you are supposed to. His problem was his attitude.



Terrell Owens is overrated???? You have got to be kidding his targets are on par with other number 1 receivers around the league. TO had an incredible career, was an incredible talent not a great teammeate but when it came to producing at his position he was one the top wideouts.

Steeldude
11-22-2012, 12:53 PM
Terrell Owens is overrated???? You have got to be kidding his targets are on par with other number 1 receivers around the league. TO had an incredible career, was an incredible talent not a great teammeate but when it came to producing at his position he was one the top wideouts.



are on par with other number 1 receivers around the league

You mean on par with other WRs that are thrown to that much. Take Roddy White for example, his first two seasons he was targeted 68 and 64 times. The following years he was targeted 130 and over. His yards doubled as did his TDs. Remember what happened when QBs didn't constantly throw to Owens? His stats were lower and he started crying.


they dont matter when determining a players worth...

They most certainly do matter. If you can't catch properly you think GMs aren't going to consider that into the equation when evaluating your worth. It's just like scouts and coaches looking at how QB releases the football. Same goes for O-linemen and how fundamentally sound they are in blocking. Of course there are freaks in the NFL, but Wallace is not one of them. If Wallace worked on his fundamentals he would be a much better WR. What does Wallace bring besides his 40 time? I am still waiting for you to answer


...thats determined by his production

Not necessarily. If BR throws 160 passes to Brown does that mean he is worth more? Production has to do with other factors as well. The QB throwing to you or perhaps the offense you run. Wallace's production has went down since Arians' "Throw it long ever play" offense is gone. Wallace is on pace to finish with 896 yards. That's with 10 more targets(124) than last year's 114. These are just averages of course. They could go up or they could fall.

BnG_Hevn
11-23-2012, 04:10 PM
Looks like he got his #80 back.

steelreserve
11-23-2012, 05:45 PM
Look at it this way ... if Burress still has anything left in the tank at all, then maybe he draws enough attention to be the guy who "opens up the defense for Brown and Sanders" for a year once Wallace leaves for Oakland. It's working that way in San Francisco with Randy Moss. Even though he's barely any big-play threat at all, they'll still get DBs to bite on it because of reputation alone. Then all those people can shut up.

steeldawg
11-23-2012, 09:48 PM
Look at it this way ... if Burress still has anything left in the tank at all, then maybe he draws enough attention to be the guy who "opens up the defense for Brown and Sanders" for a year once Wallace leaves for Oakland. It's working that way in San Francisco with Randy Moss. Even though he's barely any big-play threat at all, they'll still get DBs to bite on it because of reputation alone. Then all those people can shut up.

burress is not going to open the offense up, hes not a deep a threat or a guy who draws double teams. I also think we will resign wallace.

GBMelBlount
11-23-2012, 10:28 PM
Look at it this way ... if Burress still has anything left in the tank at all, then maybe he draws enough attention to be the guy who "opens up the defense for Brown and Sanders" for a year once Wallace leaves for Oakland. It's working that way in San Francisco with Randy Moss. Even though he's barely any big-play threat at all, they'll still get DBs to bite on it because of reputation alone. Then all those people can shut up.

Considering our situation and what Burress is being paid I really can't see much down side.

LLT
11-24-2012, 12:21 AM
No he doesnt or they wouldnt of cut him, he only averages 2 yards per carry and most of the time its heath miller helping adams which is evident in the drop in heaths numbers since gilbert went down. Acknowledge what on special teams what has he done? If the steelers thought they needed him to pass block or on special teams they would not of cut him, but they did cut him because they wanted the roster spot for a team need not a fifth stringer.

Wow....where to start?

1) On pass plays....you think its Miller...the tight end...who is helping with the majority of the blocks? Thats probably not worth commenting on...but here goes. Millers numbers are NOT down because he is a blocking on passing downs....but rather because BEN'S numbers are down since Gilbert was injured. Before the injury Ben averaged 297.4 yards a game..and after the injury it has dropped to 238.4 yards a game. Miller is not blocking on the majority of pass plays...HE IS GOING OUT TO CATCH PASSES.

2) The facts are that Baron is brought in on specific pass plays to help block speed rushers that the tackles are having problems with. He has been recognized as a a great blocker since his first training camp. Furthermore, To say that he is a "fifth stringer" shows a lack of understanding about pro backfields. A third down back is a specialized position...and to call a third down back a "fifth stringer is pretty simplistic. Besides...on the official steelers depth chart list, he is listed above Rainey. He has more touches than Rainey. He has played more special teams plays than Rainey.

3) Baron was sent to the practice squad for OBVIOUS reasons. The coaches are not very concerned with the Browns #23 ranked defense, which has not produced a legitimate pass rush all season. Also take into consideration that we are starting Charlie Batch, and we will put more emphasis on the run. All this points towards our being able to afford to sit Baron out this game.

The reason so many members get upset with your posts...is because of what you are doing right now. Being condescending ...without legitimate facts. I appreciate a good debate....but please dont just throw up baseless and factless comments and expect us to believe you are enlightened to something that the rest of us "dont get".

Steeldude
11-24-2012, 03:58 AM
burress is not going to open the offense up, hes not a deep a threat or a guy who draws double teams. I also think we will resign wallace.

You are still dodging questions. It seems you can't handle more than one question. I'll just ask the one question you have avoided answering about a dozen times. What does Wallace bring besides his 40 time?

Fyi, if the Steelers send Burress on a post pattern he will most likely receive attention from the safety. This goes for pretty much any WR. You have it in your head that only Wallace receives double-teams. He doesn't receive as many double-teams as you think.

steeldawg
11-24-2012, 06:28 AM
Wow....where to start?

1) On pass plays....you think its Miller...the tight end...who is helping with the majority of the blocks? Thats probably not worth commenting on...but here goes. Millers numbers are NOT down because he is a blocking on passing downs....but rather because BEN'S numbers are down since Gilbert was injured. Before the injury Ben averaged 297.4 yards a game..and after the injury it has dropped to 238.4 yards a game. Miller is not blocking on the majority of pass plays...HE IS GOING OUT TO CATCH PASSES.

2) The facts are that Baron is brought in on specific pass plays to help block speed rushers that the tackles are having problems with. He has been recognized as a a great blocker since his first training camp. Furthermore, To say that he is a "fifth stringer" shows a lack of understanding about pro backfields. A third down back is a specialized position...and to call a third down back a "fifth stringer is pretty simplistic. Besides...on the official steelers depth chart list, he is listed above Rainey. He has more touches than Rainey. He has played more special teams plays than Rainey.

3) Baron was sent to the practice squad for OBVIOUS reasons. The coaches are not very concerned with the Browns #23 ranked defense, which has not produced a legitimate pass rush all season. Also take into consideration that we are starting Charlie Batch, and we will put more emphasis on the run. All this points towards our being able to afford to sit Baron out this game.

The reason so many members get upset with your posts...is because of what you are doing right now. Being condescending ...without legitimate facts. I appreciate a good debate....but please dont just throw up baseless and factless comments and expect us to believe you are enlightened to something that the rest of us "dont get".


http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/adams_pass_protection_woes_hurting_entire_offense/12248101

http://www.970espn.com/pages/sports_blogger.html?article=10586312
http://blackngoldblitz.blogspot.com/

Why dont you start with what is actually happening on the field, I cannot find one article or blog talking about barob batch's superb blocking skills or the fact the steelers bring him in on specific downs for pass protection. The facts are there, and you have given me nothing to support your claim that batch is the best blocking rb on the team or the that steelers even need him at all in pass protection. You are the one who is condescending, and baron batch was sent to the practice squad because hes expendable plain and simple, teams do not not send guys to the practice squad who they rely on in pass protection thats absolutely ridiculous.

- - - Updated - - -


You are still dodging questions. It seems you can't handle more than one question. I'll just ask the one question you have avoided answering about a dozen times. What does Wallace bring besides his 40 time?

Fyi, if the Steelers send Burress on a post pattern he will most likely receive attention from the safety. This goes for pretty much any WR. You have it in your head that only Wallace receives double-teams. He doesn't receive as many double-teams as you think.

He gets open makes catches and scores what else do you want. No if you read his post he said burress would draw double teams to open things up for brown and sanders when wallace goes to oakland. Yes wallace receives a ton of double teams, teams contantly roll coverage over the top of wallace.

steeldawg
11-24-2012, 07:13 AM
Wow....where to start?

1) On pass plays....you think its Miller...the tight end...who is helping with the majority of the blocks? Thats probably not worth commenting on...but here goes. Millers numbers are NOT down because he is a blocking on passing downs....but rather because BEN'S numbers are down since Gilbert was injured. Before the injury Ben averaged 297.4 yards a game..and after the injury it has dropped to 238.4 yards a game. Miller is not blocking on the majority of pass plays...HE IS GOING OUT TO CATCH PASSES.

2) The facts are that Baron is brought in on specific pass plays to help block speed rushers that the tackles are having problems with. He has been recognized as a a great blocker since his first training camp. Furthermore, To say that he is a "fifth stringer" shows a lack of understanding about pro backfields. A third down back is a specialized position...and to call a third down back a "fifth stringer is pretty simplistic. Besides...on the official steelers depth chart list, he is listed above Rainey. He has more touches than Rainey. He has played more special teams plays than Rainey.

3) Baron was sent to the practice squad for OBVIOUS reasons. The coaches are not very concerned with the Browns #23 ranked defense, which has not produced a legitimate pass rush all season. Also take into consideration that we are starting Charlie Batch, and we will put more emphasis on the run. All this points towards our being able to afford to sit Baron out this game.

The reason so many members get upset with your posts...is because of what you are doing right now. Being condescending ...without legitimate facts. I appreciate a good debate....but please dont just throw up baseless and factless comments and expect us to believe you are enlightened to something that the rest of us "dont get".

Its not a lack of understanding, hes a fifth stringer, the only reason the depth chart was like that is because rainey was listed as primarily a 3rd down back, batch is listed below dwyer because he can run as an everydown back not rainey. The only reason batch has more touches than rainey is because we wewre decimated at rb, if not for that the guy would never see the field. Rainey is used for specific reasons on offense not to be used as an everydown back, also if you count raineys touches in the return game its not even close. Im not saying rainey is a better running back than batch but he certainly is much more dangerous and much more worthy of a roster spot than batch. So really it comes down to we had 5 rbs we needed a roster spot so we waived the guy we didnt need and that was batch.

Steeldude
11-24-2012, 08:22 AM
He gets open makes catches and scores what else do you want. No if you read his post he said burress would draw double teams to open things up for brown and sanders when wallace goes to oakland. Yes wallace receives a ton of double teams, teams contantly roll coverage over the top of wallace.

Many, many WRs routinely get open and find cracks. Many WRs receive extra attention from the safety on deep routes. I am asking you what does he bring to the table besides his 40 time. With the amount of time you spend defending Wallace you would think you would be able to answer that question without a problem, but so far you have come up empty.

Where do you get this misconception that Wallace is the only WR on the Steelers to receive double-teams? Again, you are attributing his double teams to his 40 time. If that's all he brings then why pay him a huge salary? You bring up production, but that is not a good argument for Wallace. Look at the offense the Steelers run with Haley compared to Arians. How is Wallace's production? Why not find a cheaper WR with a good 40 time to take his place?

steeldawg
11-24-2012, 08:34 AM
Many, many WRs routinely get open and find cracks. Many WRs receive extra attention from the safety on deep routes. I am asking you what does he bring to the table besides his 40 time. With the amount of time you spend defending Wallace you would think you would be able to answer that question without a problem, but so far you have come up empty.

Where do you get this misconception that Wallace is the only WR on the Steelers to receive double-teams? Again, you are attributing his double teams to his 40 time. If that's all he brings then why pay him a huge salary? You bring up production, but that is not a good argument for Wallace. Look at the offense the Steelers run with Haley compared to Arians. How is Wallace's production? Why not find a cheaper WR with a good 40 time to take his place?

HE Scores tds he stretches defenses he has great speed he catches alot of passes what else do you want him to bring????? Its really a simple answer to your simple question you just keep ignoring it. Wallaces production is pretty good in haleys offense, if you want to go off that why keep brown? why keep sanders? 10 mil a year is not a huge salary according to his production!!!!! Im done arguing with you about it, look at the numbers they are staring you in the face and players putting up similar often less production are getting paid in that pay range, its the market value. Ya just go out and find a receiver with a good 40 time because we know nfl wideouts with good 40 times are hard to find. There is no substitute for a guy who can find the endzone i dont care what you say its the same difference between an average db and a db with nose for the ball.

Steeldude
11-24-2012, 08:58 AM
HE Scores tds he stretches defenses he has great speed he catches alot of passes what else do you want him to bring????? Its really a simple answer to your simple question you just keep ignoring it. Wallaces production is pretty good in haleys offense, if you want to go off that why keep brown? why keep sanders? 10 mil a year is not a huge salary according to his production!!!!! Im done arguing with you about it, look at the numbers they are staring you in the face and players putting up similar often less production are getting paid in that pay range, its the market value. Ya just go out and find a receiver with a good 40 time because we know nfl wideouts with good 40 times are hard to find. There is no substitute for a guy who can find the endzone i dont care what you say its the same difference between an average db and a db with nose for the ball.


Again, you are bringing up his 40 time. Nate Washington stretched defenses too. Others WRs also catch a lot of passes, but Wallace has average to poor hands. Many WRs score TDs. We also see Wallace drop easy TD passes too. Do recall my statement on number of targets and it affects a WR's production. The problem with Wallace is he scheduled to have 10 more targets this year, but his stats are lower.

If it's so easy to answer then why haven't you been able to come up with an answer.


Wallaces production is pretty good in haleys offense, if you want to go off that why keep brown

My argument isn't production. That's your argument. My argument is the worth of what a WR brings and how it affects the cap. Wallace's production the last few years was a result of BR running around for 8 seconds under Arians' absurd offensive scheme.

As for Brown, he is a well-rounded WR. Good hands; good speed; good agility; good routes; isn't shy across the middle; puts forth effort can return punts/kicks; good fundamentals.


10 mil a year is not a huge salary according to his production

Again, there is this thing called the cap. You willfully forget about it. $10 million for a WR who only has a good 40 time is not a good deal. Especially when you consider he doesn't try at times. I am still upset at how he didn't even put forth any effort to grab the 3rd pass to keep the Steelers last drive going. He couldn't shuffle one foot a few inches forward. Earlier in the game he didn't make the slightest attempt at trying to grab the lass that hit the DB in the back. He would have drawn a PI penalty if he did. What does Wallace do after the play? He laughs. Yeah, let's fork over $10 million to that guy. Could you imagine how poor his effort would be when/if he signs a huge contract?


look at the numbers they are staring you in the face

I looked at them. I showed you how his production is now falling. Shouldn't his production be going up due to this being his contract year?


Im done arguing with you about it

What you mean is you can't think of any valid reason to pay Wallace other than his 40 time.

Count Steeler
11-24-2012, 09:21 AM
I personally think that Pope is the biggest waste of a roster slot. Terrible on ST's ...subpar blocker...and has 2 receptions for 8 yards.

This! :applaudit:

steeldawg
11-24-2012, 09:21 AM
Again, you are bringing up his 40 time. Nate Washington stretched defenses too. Others WRs also catch a lot of passes, but Wallace has average to poor hands. Many WRs score TDs. We also see Wallace drop easy TD passes too. Do recall my statement on number of targets and it affects a WR's production. The problem with Wallace is he scheduled to have 10 more targets this year, but his stats are lower.

If it's so easy to answer then why haven't you been able to come up with an answer.



My argument isn't production. That's your argument. My argument is the worth of what a WR brings and how it affects the cap. Wallace's production the last few years was a result of BR running around for 8 seconds under Arians' absurd offensive scheme.

As for Brown, he is a well-rounded WR. Good hands; good speed; good agility; good routes; isn't shy across the middle; puts forth effort can return punts/kicks; good fundamentals.



Again, there is this thing called the cap. You willfully forget about it. $10 million for a WR who only has a good 40 time is not a good deal. Especially when you consider he doesn't try at times. I am still upset at how he didn't even put forth any effort to grab the 3rd pass to keep the Steelers last drive going. He couldn't shuffle one foot a few inches forward. Earlier in the game he didn't make the slightest attempt at trying to grab the lass that hit the DB in the back. He would have drawn a PI penalty if he did. What does Wallace do after the play? He laughs. Yeah, let's fork over $10 million to that guy. Could you imagine how poor his effort would be when/if he signs a huge contract?



I looked at them. I showed you how his production is now falling. Shouldn't his production be going up due to this being his contract year?



What you mean is you can't think of any valid reason to pay Wallace other than his 40 time.

Great that all you needed to say " your arguement is not about production" mine is and his production has been very good and thats what determines worth, not 40 times not combines, its what he does on the field and mike wallace has done alot. he led the league as a rookie in yds per catch, hes been to a pro bowl, and again he put up stats through his first 3 seasons that only rice and moss have topped through their first 3 seasons, but all this has been ignored i cant give you more reasons than the guys resume. Antonio brown is a perfect example 5 years 40 mil for REC 127 YDS 1774 YDS per REC 14.0 TDS 3.....but 5 years 50 mil is out of the question for wallace who has REC 217 YDS 3769 YDS pre REC 17.4 tds 30...... Again the numbers are there for a 10 mil a year contract .

Steeldude
11-24-2012, 03:50 PM
Great that all you needed to say " your arguement is not about production" mine is and his production has been very good and thats what determines worth, not 40 times not combines, its what he does on the field and mike wallace has done alot. he led the league as a rookie in yds per catch, hes been to a pro bowl, and again he put up stats through his first 3 seasons that only rice and moss have topped through their first 3 seasons, but all this has been ignored i cant give you more reasons than the guys resume. Antonio brown is a perfect example 5 years 40 mil for REC 127 YDS 1774 YDS per REC 14.0 TDS 3.....but 5 years 50 mil is out of the question for wallace who has REC 217 YDS 3769 YDS pre REC 17.4 tds 30...... Again the numbers are there for a 10 mil a year contract .

If it's based on production only then he should be let go. Throw another WR the ball 120+ times and he will have numbers too. Remember how Roddy White's numbers went up when his targets were doubled?

Did you actually bring up the Pro Bowl as if it means something?

The only reason you have given for a huge salary increase is to say he is fast. Why not find another fast WR who is cheaper?


its what he does on the field

Which is run fast, drop passes and give poor effort.

BTW, you forgot to add in Brown's all purpose yards. Do you need me to average out Brown's production by giving him targets equal to Wallace?

Brown is the better all-around WR. He has better all-around skills and he puts forth effort rather than giving up on passes like Wallace.

Explain Wallace's lack of effort and why you think it's a good thing? Also, how did you fall under the assumption that Wallace is the only WR who is doubled going long and that he is the only WR capable of doing it?

LLT
11-24-2012, 07:00 PM
Why dont you start with what is actually happening on the field, I cannot find one article or blog talking about barob batch's superb blocking skills or the fact the steelers bring him in on specific downs for pass protection. The facts are there, and you have given me nothing to support your claim that batch is the best blocking rb on the team or the that steelers even need him at all in pass protection. You are the one who is condescending, and baron batch was sent to the practice squad because hes expendable plain and simple, teams do not not send guys to the practice squad who they rely on in pass protection thats absolutely ridiculous.
.

Wow...first ...everything that i have stated is suported by the millions of people who WATCH THE GAME...and SEE what is happening.

Secondly....you claim you cant find a ONE article or blog that supports the reality of Baron being our blocking back on pass plays and the best blocker we have out of the backfield?.....really?

Well...it was hard to prove. To find out if Baron Batch is a good blocker ...I had to jump through hoops by googling "Baron Batch blocker". WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK IT!!!

"Baron Batch Not Chris Rainey showing the ability to be a complete third down back"
http://insidepittsburghsports.com/story/saturdays-camp-report-baron-batch-not-chris-rainey-showing-the-ability-to-be-a-complete-third-down-back/51321/

Batch Can Block too!
http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Batch-can-block-too/7fe4e02b-dd92-495a-bfdd-f9b750ff61ff

Steelers getting "Moore" out of Baron Batch
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/09/steelers-getting-moore-out-of-baron-batch/

(this one actually has three videos explaining how versatile and important Batch's blocking was during a game)

I actually counted 21 articles on Barons ability to block or his opening up plays with his blocking.

Football isnt an ESPN highlight. Those who watch it as such are going to miss out on players like Batch...Aaron Smith...and all the other players who dont "ooh and aww" with 4.20 speed or simple stats.

steeldawg
11-24-2012, 11:36 PM
Wow...first ...everything that i have stated is suported by the millions of people who WATCH THE GAME...and SEE what is happening.

Secondly....you claim you cant find a ONE article or blog that supports the reality of Baron being our blocking back on pass plays and the best blocker we have out of the backfield?.....really?

Well...it was hard to prove. To find out if Baron Batch is a good blocker ...I had to jump through hoops by googling "Baron Batch blocker". WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK IT!!!

"Baron Batch Not Chris Rainey showing the ability to be a complete third down back"
http://insidepittsburghsports.com/story/saturdays-camp-report-baron-batch-not-chris-rainey-showing-the-ability-to-be-a-complete-third-down-back/51321/

Batch Can Block too!
http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Batch-can-block-too/7fe4e02b-dd92-495a-bfdd-f9b750ff61ff

Steelers getting "Moore" out of Baron Batch
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/09/steelers-getting-moore-out-of-baron-batch/

(this one actually has three videos explaining how versatile and important Batch's blocking was during a game)

I actually counted 21 articles on Barons ability to block or his opening up plays with his blocking.

Football isnt an ESPN highlight. Those who watch it as such are going to miss out on players like Batch...Aaron Smith...and all the other players who dont "ooh and aww" with 4.20 speed or simple stats.

You just posted three articles that were posted before the season started, nothing in regards to the steelers using batch specifically for pass protection or in helping mike wallace. i posted links to what the steelers were actually doing during games.

Steeldude
11-25-2012, 03:30 PM
Wallace drops another pass and puts forth weak effort on the lob which resulted in an INT. Wallace, you are really earning that big contract.

7willBheaven
11-25-2012, 04:40 PM
Wallace drops another pass and puts forth weak effort on the lob which resulted in an INT. Wallace, you are really earning that big contract.

For the first time in a bit...I do not blame Wallace. Batch threw either short or behind him on those plays...well the one would have been a catch had it not hit the Brown in his helmet...but still.

86WARD
11-25-2012, 04:44 PM
Wallace should've come back to the ball and taken it from that double coverage...Elite receivers catch that...lol.

Carolina Steelers
11-25-2012, 04:52 PM
Wallace drops another pass and puts forth weak effort on the lob which resulted in an INT. Wallace, you are really earning that big contract.

I somewhat agree that Batch pass was behind him a little but got to make the catch IMO tough catch but got to make it, also the last 3 games were the O needs him he been coming up empty i understand the QB situation but Sanders had been doing his part the last 2 games. To me also i see lack of effort no fight in Wallace maybe i just expect more

LLT
11-27-2012, 01:28 AM
You just posted three articles that were posted before the season started, nothing in regards to the steelers using batch specifically for pass protection or in helping mike wallace. i posted links to what the steelers were actually doing during games.

Really?

Our season started on Sept 9th.

The last article was posted on Sept 19...including three videos of Batch pass blocking from the backfield and an explanantion of why his blocking was essential....all during the Sept 16th Jets game.

Here is a link to our schedule...verifying that the September 16th game did indeed take place after the September 9th opening

http://www.steelers.com/schedule-and-events/season-schedule.html

steeldawg
11-27-2012, 05:35 AM
Really?

Our season started on Sept 9th.

The last article was posted on Sept 19...including three videos of Batch pass blocking from the backfield and an explanantion of why his blocking was essential....all during the Sept 16th Jets game.

Here is a link to our schedule...verifying that the September 16th game did indeed take place after the September 9th opening

http://www.steelers.com/schedule-and-events/season-schedule.html

but your talking about one game!!! That does not transalate to them using him specifically to help in pass protection because hes so good, The fact is if he was essential to pass protection we would see him on the field alot more and he would not of gotten waived. Also if you think heath is not being used to help adams your either deliberatly ignoring it or blind.

LLT
11-28-2012, 12:44 AM
but your talking about one game!!! That does not transalate to them using him specifically to help in pass protection because hes so good, The fact is if he was essential to pass protection we would see him on the field alot more and he would not of gotten waived. Also if you think heath is not being used to help adams your either deliberatly ignoring it or blind.

And you are changing the argument everytime you are proven wrong.

You say that Batch was not used to block out of the backfield and does not possess pass blocking skills. You were proven wrong so you changed the argument to say that it cant be proven that he pass blocked during the regular season. You were proven wrong, so now the argument is that it was only "one game"...which is just silly.

You said that Heath is the primary blocking help for Adams on pass plays...you obviously realized that its absurd to say that our Tight End is the primary help on the right side since he is RUNNING PASS ROUTES...so now you try and veil it by trying to make it somehow seem as if I said that Heath doesnt help on the right side.

All of us are well aware that Heath blocks on running plays...and that he even occasionaly blocks on pass plays. The only person who has made any other assertion regarding Heath is you.

Quit creating rabbit trails...quit deflecting...quit trying to change the argument...No one is buying it.

Steeldude
11-28-2012, 01:05 AM
Quit creating rabbit trails...quit deflecting...quit trying to change the argument...No one is buying it.

I went through this with him on Wallace. Each time he is proven wrong or if one of his many excuses are found irrelevant he changes the argument.

- - - Updated - - -


Wallace should've come back to the ball and taken it from that double coverage...Elite receivers catch that...lol.

Elite WRs do that or they knock it down.. The ones who aren't elite tend to watch the play and give no effort ala Wallace-style.

Why are you happy with Wallace not putting forth effort? I take it you would like Haynesworth on the team

Seven
11-28-2012, 01:09 AM
I went through this with him on Wallace. Each time he is proven wrong or if one of his many excuses are found irrelevant he changes the argument.

I went through this with him on Obama, Wallace and most recently Mendenhall. He pulls bullshit out of his ass when it's convenient - whether it's accurate/relevant or not. IE: Claiming Wallace was double covered the entire game against the Chiefs.

steeldawg
11-28-2012, 05:49 AM
And you are changing the argument everytime you are proven wrong.

You say that Batch was not used to block out of the backfield and does not possess pass blocking skills. You were proven wrong so you changed the argument to say that it cant be proven that he pass blocked during the regular season. You were proven wrong, so now the argument is that it was only "one game"...which is just silly.

You said that Heath is the primary blocking help for Adams on pass plays...you obviously realized that its absurd to say that our Tight End is the primary help on the right side since he is RUNNING PASS ROUTES...so now you try and veil it by trying to make it somehow seem as if I said that Heath doesnt help on the right side.

All of us are well aware that Heath blocks on running plays...and that he even occasionaly blocks on pass plays. The only person who has made any other assertion regarding Heath is you.

Quit creating rabbit trails...quit deflecting...quit trying to change the argument...No one is buying it.

BS my arguement has stayed the same the entire time.....you made the claim that the steelers were using batch to help mike adams because hes easily the best blocking rb on the team, which is absurd. The fact is heath miller has been the one that has been used the most to help mike adams, not batch, whos deflecting ive said the same thing over and over, and heres another link to back up my arguement regarding heath. Quit your crying and back up your arguement of batch being used to help mike adams and miller not being used to help mike adams. nobody is buying you trying to attack me to deflect the attention from the fact you cant prove your arguement.

http://www.steelcityblitz.com/2012/11/25/the-return-of-plax-will-help-ease-the-loss-of-miller-in-steelers-passing-game/

LLT
11-28-2012, 06:30 AM
BS my arguement has stayed the same the entire time.....you made the claim that the steelers were using batch to help mike adams because hes easily the best blocking rb on the team, which is absurd. The fact is heath miller has been the one that has been used the most to help mike adams, not batch, whos deflecting ive said the same thing over and over, and heres another link to back up my arguement regarding heath. Quit your crying and back up your arguement of batch being used to help mike adams and miller not being used to help mike adams. nobody is buying you trying to attack me to deflect the attention from the fact you cant prove your arguement.

http://www.steelcityblitz.com/2012/11/25/the-return-of-plax-will-help-ease-the-loss-of-miller-in-steelers-passing-game/

Crying? LOL....My argument is proven over and over again.....but you keep dodging and ducking.

Now you find a random article about Heath's numbers being down over the last few weeks. An article that doesnt even take into consideration that the MAIN reason Heaths numbers are down is because OUR QUARTERBACK ISNT PLAYING!!!....LOL!!!! Even the most casual of fans can see this.


In contrast:

I showed articles (of which you said you "could not find even one")

I showed actual game tape (Of which you SOMEHOW claimed was preseason)

I proved that it was NOT preseason (Of which you then changed gears and disgarded because it was "one game")

You are not able to admit you're wrong...ever...and your argument HAS changed...that is what the other posters are pointing out.

No one ever said that Heath does not occasionaly block on passing downs, that is an argument that you are using to cover up your original claim that Baron was not a blocking back....the rest of the world has seen Batch blocking in the backfield...and the rest of the world knows that Batch is regarded as a great blocking back...It just shows that you have blinders on and just wish to argue...even when proven wrong.

How many more members have to jump in and say that this is your "M.O."? I guess they are all "crying" also?

You are getting quite the reputation...

I am at the point where I think you actually KNOW better...but have some inherent need to "prove" that you are enlightened, at the expense of the facts.

Steeldude
11-28-2012, 07:07 AM
Steeldawg, your entire argument for giving Wallace a huge contract is his 40 time and bloated stats that were a result of Arians' "Throw it long every play" offense. Wallace is on course to have 832 yards and 8 TDs this year. Is that worth $10,000,000 a season? You did say it's all about stats. What is the real reason you credulously support Wallace getting big time money?

I am certainly glad Wallace held out. It's one of the best things that could have happened to the Steelers.

Austin87
11-28-2012, 07:59 AM
I am certainly glad Wallace held out. It's one of the best things that could have happened to the Steelers.

QFT.

steeldawg
11-28-2012, 06:33 PM
Crying? LOL....My argument is proven over and over again.....but you keep dodging and ducking.

Now you find a random article about Heath's numbers being down over the last few weeks. An article that doesnt even take into consideration that the MAIN reason Heaths numbers are down is because OUR QUARTERBACK ISNT PLAYING!!!....LOL!!!! Even the most casual of fans can see this.


In contrast:

I showed articles (of which you said you "could not find even one")

I showed actual game tape (Of which you SOMEHOW claimed was preseason)

I proved that it was NOT preseason (Of which you then changed gears and disgarded because it was "one game")

You are not able to admit you're wrong...ever...and your argument HAS changed...that is what the other posters are pointing out.

No one ever said that Heath does not occasionaly block on passing downs, that is an argument that you are using to cover up your original claim that Baron was not a blocking back....the rest of the world has seen Batch blocking in the backfield...and the rest of the world knows that Batch is regarded as a great blocking back...It just shows that you have blinders on and just wish to argue...even when proven wrong.

How many more members have to jump in and say that this is your "M.O."? I guess they are all "crying" also?

You are getting quite the reputation...

I am at the point where I think you actually KNOW better...but have some inherent need to "prove" that you are enlightened, at the expense of the facts.

You are such a bs artist your arguement was the steelers use batch specifically for pass protection to help mike adams and that heath miller is not used in pass protection and its completely false. The entire reason for the arguement was because you overstated batch's worth to the steelers. I posted earlier i didnt say batch couldnt block, what i said was they do not utilize him speciaclly to help mike adams because hes hardly on the field.My arguement is still the same and will remain that way, because i got one of the dates wrong i suddenly changed my arguement? Heath miller is used to help mike adams and that is a fact, i didnt post one article i actually posted a total of 4 now, I dont care about the other 2 posters your talking about they disagree with everything i say.

Dwinsgames
11-28-2012, 06:39 PM
Mike Adams his first couple starts was helped almost exclusively by Heath Miller , in fact I recall on more than 1 occasion Miller actually took on the Def End 1 on 1 because Adams went after the DT instead of the end and left Heath hung out to dry but Miller impressed and took the DE out of the play all by himself

steeldawg
11-28-2012, 06:44 PM
Steeldawg, your entire argument for giving Wallace a huge contract is his 40 time and bloated stats that were a result of Arians' "Throw it long every play" offense. Wallace is on course to have 832 yards and 8 TDs this year. Is that worth $10,000,000 a season? You did say it's all about stats. What is the real reason you credulously support Wallace getting big time money?

I am certainly glad Wallace held out. It's one of the best things that could have happened to the Steelers.

Look man you can ignore everything that mike wallace has done over his career, the numbers are there, the guy is a weapon. I didnt say it was all about stats? I believe you give a player a contract based on their body of work and not based on one season.

- - - Updated - - -


Mike Adams his first couple starts was helped almost exclusively by Heath Miller , in fact I recall on more than 1 occasion Miller actually took on the Def End 1 on 1 because Adams went after the DT instead of the end and left Heath hung out to dry but Miller impressed and took the DE out of the play all by himself

I know you dont agree with me most of the time so i thank you for chiming in with your observation.

Steeldude
11-28-2012, 06:48 PM
Look man you can ignore everything that mike wallace has done over his career, the numbers are there, the guy is a weapon. I didnt say it was all about stats? I believe you give a player a contract based on their body of work and not based on one season.

I am not ignoring anything. You on the other hand ignore his many faults. He is simply a WR who can run fast, that's it. He offers nothing else. You know this to be true because you willfully refuse to answer what he brings besides his 40 time.

How do you feel about a player who chooses not to try? Haynesworth put up good stats. Should the Steelers sign him for a huge contract?

Wallace is on course to have 832 yards and 8 TDs this year. Is that worth $10,000,000 a season?

steeldawg
11-28-2012, 06:51 PM
I am not ignoring anything. You on the other hand ignore his many faults. He is simply a WR who can run fast, that's it. He offers nothing else. You know this to be true because you willfully refuse to answer what he brings besides his 40 time.

How do you feel about a player who chooses not to try? Haynesworth put up good stats. Should the Steelers sign him for a huge contract?

Wallace is on course to have 832 yards and 8 TDs this year. Is that worth $10,000,000 a season?

I already pointed it out:

1. he gets open
2. he makes alot of catches
3. he gains alot of yards
4. he scores
What else would you like him to bring to the table?

Dwinsgames
11-28-2012, 06:58 PM
I am not ignoring anything. You on the other hand ignore his many faults. He is simply a WR who can run fast, that's it. He offers nothing else. You know this to be true because you willfully refuse to answer what he brings besides his 40 time.

How do you feel about a player who chooses not to try? Haynesworth put up good stats. Should the Steelers sign him for a huge contract?

Wallace is on course to have 832 yards and 8 TDs this year. Is that worth $10,000,000 a season?

those projected numbers are very much like what Plax put up with the Jets and Sanchez throwing to him , his door did not get beat down in FA and he is now on our roster playing for a song and a dance ....

dam think what Plax could have done with Ben throwing to him and running a 4.25 -40 ( or whatever it is Wallace says he runs )

http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/steelers.gif

- - - Updated - - -


I already pointed it out:

1. he gets open
2. he makes alot of catches
3. he gains alot of yards
4. he scores
What else would you like him to bring to the table?

1) EFFORT

2) willingness to fight for the football when its disputed by a defender

3) HANDS that can be relied upon

Steeldude
11-28-2012, 10:28 PM
I already pointed it out:

1. he gets open
2. he makes alot of catches
3. he gains alot of yards
4. he scores
What else would you like him to bring to the table?

1. Same can be said for many, many WRs in the NFL
2. Because he is targeted over a hundred times. He also drops a lot of pass and gives up on passes.
3. So do other WRs targeted over a hundred times.
4. So do other WRs.

You haven't made a good case for handing over a huge contract. Basically what you are saying is Wallace has two arms and two legs so he is valuable.

How do you feel about a player who chooses not to try? Haynesworth put up good stats. Should the Steelers sign him for a huge contract?

LLT
11-29-2012, 12:53 AM
Mike Adams his first couple starts was helped almost exclusively by Heath Miller , in fact I recall on more than 1 occasion Miller actually took on the Def End 1 on 1 because Adams went after the DT instead of the end and left Heath hung out to dry but Miller impressed and took the DE out of the play all by himself

Noone ever said that Miller does not occasionally help out...That is an argument fabricated by Steeldawg after his initial argument about Baron not pass blocking fell apart.

Those of us who watch the game are all very aware that Heath consistantly blocks on running plays and routinely will assist on certain pass plays.

LLT
11-29-2012, 12:59 AM
You are such a bs artist your arguement was the steelers use batch specifically for pass protection to help mike adams and that heath miller is not used in pass protection and its completely false. .

No one ever said that. You lost your arguement and your deflecting.

As far as my being a BS artist....I will let the personal attack slide just this once since I also let you get under my skin and debated through emotion. I'll refrain from doing so...

....but the next time you resort to name calling ...it wont be a warning.

steelreserve
11-29-2012, 02:26 AM
No one ever said that. You lost your arguement and your deflecting.

As far as my being a BS artist....I will let the personal attack slide just this once since I also let you get under my skin and debated through emotion. I'll refrain from doing so...

....but the next time you resort to name calling ...it wont be a warning.

Come on, don't go hard on the dude. It's just a stuck argument. I'd hate to see someone go over something like this.

I mean, if you're mad about name-calling, think about how tame it is in comparison to one certain guy ...

http://forums.steelersfever.com/image.php?u=5353&dateline=1220446177

LLT
11-29-2012, 02:53 AM
Come on, don't go hard on the dude. It's just a stuck argument. I'd hate to see someone go over something like this.

I mean, if you're mad about name-calling, think about how tame it is in comparison to one certain guy ...

http://forums.steelersfever.com/image.php?u=5353&dateline=1220446177

Not going hard on him...but want to nip the name calling before it starts.

steelreserve
11-29-2012, 04:01 AM
I know, but .. do you know how hard it is to paint with bullshit? I can't do it. I can't even paint with regular paint. I think it's a compliment, man. You're an artist. Like this guy:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=480FLNMUpUk


wait. I'm drunk again, aren't I?

LLT
11-29-2012, 04:07 AM
I know, but .. do you know how hard it is to paint with bullshit? I can't do it. I can't even paint with regular paint. I think it's a compliment, man. You're an artist. Like this guy:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=480FLNMUpUk


wait. I'm drunk again, aren't I?

LOL...youre not right.

steelreserve
11-29-2012, 04:16 AM
DID YOU EVEN WATCH THE WHOLE VIDEO, MAN? HE TOTALLY RUINS HER HAIR WITH THAT HIDEOUS PURPLE AT 8:20! YOU DON'T DO THAT TO MIKU!

steeldawg
11-29-2012, 05:11 AM
Noone ever said that Miller does not occasionally help out...That is an argument fabricated by Steeldawg after his initial argument about Baron not pass blocking fell apart.

Those of us who watch the game are all very aware that Heath consistantly blocks on running plays and routinely will assist on certain pass plays.

You have totally ignored my arguement, again i didnt say baron batch never blocks or couldnt block, how many times do i have to post that!!!! Im not deflecting, the fact is since mike adams has come in the game most of his pass blocking help has been coming from heath miller and even some from paulson. Did baron batch play in some pass protection, yes but its not like the steelers said mike adams is in i guess we have send in our specialist baron batch to help in pass protection. You drasitically overstated the worth of baron batch, The guy hardly got on the field and was never part of any gameplan except when the position was decimated by injury. Really "bs artist" is an attack lol ok i guess i will tone it down. Also i never said i couldnt find an article on batch blocking what i said was i couldnt find an article of batch being specifically called upon to help mike adams, but i certainly could find articles for heath miller. Ive won this arguement 10 times over which is why you have simply resorted to saying "your deflecting".

LLT
11-29-2012, 05:32 AM
You have totally ignored my arguement, again i didnt say baron batch never blocks or couldnt block, how many times do i have to post that!!!!.

Here is my original statement...Which you chose to attack. The one in which you claim I "Over emphasized" Barons contributions.


Batch is easily our best blocking RB and has been used over and over again to help Adams on the right side with speed rushers

Do you NOW agree or disagree with it?

LLT
11-29-2012, 05:41 AM
. Also i never said i couldnt find an article on batch blocking ".

Really?


Originally posted by steeldawg

I cannot find one article or blog talking about barob batch's superb blocking skills or the fact the steelers bring him in on specific downs for pass protection..

steeldawg
11-29-2012, 04:55 PM
Really?

yes really theytalk about him doing a decent job while he was in on few plays nothing about him being the best blocker or him being specifically used in any scheme. No i dont agree with him being the best blocker and he was hardly used over there "over and over again" would imply we use him consistently, which we dont. Again batch was taking up a roster spot that we needed for other positions, he was not valuable, on his best day he would be mediocre so it was an easy decision sending him to the practice squad.

GBMelBlount
11-29-2012, 06:02 PM
8 pages of posts back and forth about a 4th / 5th receiver we picked up in a pinch for peanuts? lol.

Count Steeler
11-29-2012, 06:04 PM
It just amazes me all the back and forth about a 4th / 5th receiver we picked up in a pinch for peanuts.

The funny thing is it is not even about Burress.

GBMelBlount
11-29-2012, 06:06 PM
The funny thing is it is not even about Burress.

I guess I would have known that if I had read the posts. :lol:

43Hitman
11-29-2012, 08:25 PM
I know, but .. do you know how hard it is to paint with bullshit? I can't do it. I can't even paint with regular paint. I think it's a compliment, man. You're an artist. Like this guy:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=480FLNMUpUk


wait. I'm drunk again, aren't I?

Well played sir. Very well played.

tube517
11-29-2012, 08:59 PM
The funny thing is it is not even about Burress.

:lol:

Seven
11-29-2012, 10:29 PM
yes really theytalk about him doing a decent job while he was in on few plays nothing about him being the best blocker or him being specifically used in any scheme. No i dont agree with him being the best blocker and he was hardly used over there "over and over again" would imply we use him consistently, which we dont. Again batch was taking up a roster spot that we needed for other positions, he was not valuable, on his best day he would be mediocre so it was an easy decision sending him to the practice squad.

What the hell is wrong with you? You can't even keep your own statements straight. I'm not trying to attack you, but come on man, your posts are absolutely ridiculous. LLT just showed two of your posts contradicting themselves and you DEFLECT again as you always do. Do you even actually believe anything you write?

steeldawg
11-30-2012, 05:03 AM
What the hell is wrong with you? You can't even keep your own statements straight. I'm not trying to attack you, but come on man, your posts are absolutely ridiculous. LLT just showed two of your posts contradicting themselves and you DEFLECT again as you always do. Do you even actually believe anything you write?

how did i contradict myself, the articles did not talk about batch being brought in specifically to help mike adams in passing situations. And the other None of thge articles or anyone in the steelers organization has declared baron batch our best blocking rb or explains how he is used "over and over" to help mike adams. There is no contradiction there, baron batch still hardly got on feild, was not involved in any schemes that were specifically for baron batch in pass protection, and heath miller still is the main guy being used to help out mike adams.

LLT
12-01-2012, 09:54 AM
how did i contradict myself, the articles did not talk about batch being brought in specifically to help mike adams in passing situations. And the other None of thge articles or anyone in the steelers organization has declared baron batch our best blocking rb or explains how he is used "over and over" to help mike adams. There is no contradiction there, baron batch still hardly got on feild, was not involved in any schemes that were specifically for baron batch in pass protection, and heath miller still is the main guy being used to help out mike adams.

Dude...you make statements that contradict each other. When called out on them...or on your outright false statements...you attempt to build a strawman through semantics and deflection.

There are two kinds of people in this world. Those who seem smart because of their indisputable logic....and those who attempt to look smart by being condescending, when lacking the ability present a logical argument.

You are doing yourself no favors on this board with the way you choose to debate....it doesnt come across as knowledable...it doesnt come across as logical....it just makes you look like someone who wishes to stand on a busy street with a sign that screams "NOTICE ME"!

Take a step back and think about what you want from this board....then join in the debates without attitude or condescending statements.

Heck...you make some good points...but they are lost in the pile of deflection and contradictions that you spoon out every day.

Dwinsgames
12-01-2012, 10:26 AM
http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

steeldawg
12-01-2012, 03:02 PM
Dude...you make statements that contradict each other. When called out on them...or on your outright false statements...you attempt to build a strawman through semantics and deflection.

There are two kinds of people in this world. Those who seem smart because of their indisputable logic....and those who attempt to look smart by being condescending, when lacking the ability present a logical argument.

You are doing yourself no favors on this board with the way you choose to debate....it doesnt come across as knowledable...it doesnt come across as logical....it just makes you look like someone who wishes to stand on a busy street with a sign that screams "NOTICE ME"!

Take a step back and think about what you want from this board....then join in the debates without attitude or condescending statements.

Heck...you make some good points...but they are lost in the pile of deflection and contradictions that you spoon out every day.

I still see no contradictions or deflections not one my arguement has remained the same, where did my arguement change?

steeldawg
12-01-2012, 03:20 PM
I still see no contradictions or deflections not one my arguement has remained the same, where did my arguement change?

What in my arguement is not logical?? Please answer this question for me??? I dont want anything from this board i simply put my opinion on here and get attacked. If my opinions are full of contradictions and deflection then why does everyone know what my positions are on certain players???? I dont seek the attention or approval of anyone on this board nor do i care if you think im knowledgable, who are you to judge whos opinion is knowledgable and whos isnt. You all seem too think i care what you think, lets get this straight i dont know you and you dont know me so dont lecture me on what type of person i am or what types of people there are in this world. Ive kept my football debates about football, on the other hand ive been called a "fucking moron" a "joke" everytime i prove my point or back it up with a source im told im deflecting or contradicting myself, so who really cares what anyone thinks here i come to debate football and sometimes politics.

Seven
12-01-2012, 03:38 PM
What in my arguement is not logical?? Please answer this question for me??? I dont want anything from this board i simply put my opinion on here and get attacked. If my opinions are full of contradictions and deflection then why does everyone know what my positions are on certain players???? I dont seek the attention or approval of anyone on this board nor do i care if you think im knowledgable, who are you to judge whos opinion is knowledgable and whos isnt. You all seem too think i care what you think, lets get this straight i dont know you and you dont know me so dont lecture me on what type of person i am or what types of people there are in this world. Ive kept my football debates about football, on the other hand ive been called a "fucking moron" a "joke" everytime i prove my point or back it up with a source im told im deflecting or contradicting myself, so who really cares what anyone thinks here i come to debate football and sometimes politics.

If you don't care what anyone else thinks why post on a message board? You frustrate me to no end with illogical and unreasonable arguments. And it appears you do the same to everyone else. Do you really think there are just that many assholes here trying to single you out? Even you have to admit that after a certain number of people call you out for the same things there is some truth to it.

steeldawg
12-01-2012, 03:49 PM
If you don't care what anyone else thinks why post on a message board? You frustrate me to no end with illogical and unreasonable arguments. And it appears you do the same to everyone else. Do you really think there are just that many assholes here trying to single you out? Even you have to admit that after a certain number of people call you out for the same things there is some truth to it.


A number of people?? Really its illogical to post on a message board if i dont care what anyone thinks?? Why is that illogical and unreasonable?? No you and steeldude are the only ones, you chase me around every thread making no point and when i prove you wrong you go into name calling mode and your so badly wanting people to rally behind u on here you are just lumping everyone into this board vs. steeldawg. You lost your arguement, you tried to change my quote, you tried name calling, and now your trying for mutiny get off my nuts bro!!

Texasteel
12-01-2012, 04:07 PM
Starting to get personal guys. I'll be damned if I start editing post, but I will close a thread if I have to. Please help me out.

Dwinsgames
12-01-2012, 04:24 PM
this is one of those arguments that will never end , nobody is going to give in ( even once they realize they are wrong ) they have far to much time and effort involved trying to prove otherwise ....

it just might be time for the old " agree to disagree " line to come out but then again we probably won't see that either because that may feel like defeat

steeldawg
12-01-2012, 07:30 PM
this is one of those arguments that will never end , nobody is going to give in ( even once they realize they are wrong ) they have far to much time and effort involved trying to prove otherwise ....

it just might be time for the old " agree to disagree " line to come out but then again we probably won't see that either because that may feel like defeat

I have already accepted the fact we are not going to agree its gotten to the point now that every thread i go into i get attacked with same crap.

Steeldude
12-01-2012, 08:07 PM
Whatever man i gave you the same answer like 3 times 3 different ways but i understand you need your hand held its ok.

Whether the pass is accurate or not, shouldn't all NFL WRs at least try to out jump DBs for the ball? You say Wallace has a 40" vertical. So why not use it to his advantage? If I am going to pay a WR $10,000,000 a season I expect him to fight for all passes, not watch the DBs take them away.