UPDATE: Dwyer listed as Starter

[Seven]

This is not an overreaction thread. If you're here to shoot the team down completely, go to another topic.

However, what does John Dwyer have to do to get the ball in key situations? He has proved by now, in my mind, that he has by far the best vision and feet of any back on the roster. He consistently grinded us to first down after first down. Yet as soon as he gouged the defense, we handed the ball off to Rashard or dropped Lefty back. I'm not referring to the plays where Dwyer waved himself off the field. I understand you have to spell him, but once he left the field he wasn't generally inserted again. He has earned the job.

I've been a fan of the offense this year, but not last week or tonight. Coach Haley I'm looking at you. Drop the cute plays and run what works.



UPDATE:


According to 93.7 Dwyer says he absolutely could have stayed in the game, but was instructed to come out as soon as he felt the slightest bit tired because the coaching staff wanted to keep "fresh legs" in the game. So, it appears we were wrong and it wasn't his conditioning that made him tap out.

[GBMelBlount]

Agreed. However this early in his tenure Haley may be simply playing by the implicit rules. Not saying he is but it certainly is possible.

I hope we see more of him next week.

[Edman]

Mendenhall has never impressed against the Ravens. Tonight was his time to shine and he came up small.

[86WARD]

Mendenhall has never impressed against the Ravens. Tonight was his time to shine and he came up small.

That can be said about a lot of the players on offense tonight and they all pretty much came up empty...Mendenhall, Wallace, Sanders, Miller, Leftwich...all of them.

[Seven]

That can be said about a lot of the players on offense tonight and they all pretty much came up empty...Mendenhall, Wallace, Sanders, Miller, Leftwich...all of them.

I actually thought Miller played up to standard.

[Devilsdancefloor]

i mentioned this in another thread mendy danced his way threw holes while Dwyer hit the holes and gained + yardage and then got a few extra yards after he was hit normally. i font get it he was gouging the Rats in the 4th we would march down the field and then throw it 3 times and punt ugh

[Craic]

Seven - No, Dwyer didn't have great vision for holes tonight. There were a couple big-gainers that he missed do to not seeing the proper lane - or not bouncing it outside. But in general, I agree that Dwyer has earned a right to run the ball.

Which he did tonight, as he was the lead carrier on the team with 12 carries for 55 yards. Mendenhall had 11 carries for 33.

Before we get down on Mendenhall however, let's remember that this is his first full game since last year. It takes a while.

[Seven]

You don't think he's had superior vision not only tonight but throughout the season over the other backs? I don't even think it's a question.

I like Mendenhall a lot, but Dwyer has absolutely earned this job. Go ahead and mix it up between the two, but the point of my argument, as I clearly stated in the OP, is why take the ball out of 27's hands in critical scenarios when he hasn't been denied all night.

[Craic]

You don't think he's had superior vision not only tonight but throughout the season over the other backs? I don't even think it's a question.

I like Mendenhall a lot, but Dwyer has absolutely earned this job. Go ahead and mix it up between the two, but the point of my argument, as I clearly stated in the OP, is why take the ball out of 27's hands in critical scenarios when he hasn't been denied all night.

If you're talking over the season, yeah, he's had pretty darn good vision. But not tonight as much. I mean, he hit the hole pretty well a number of times, but like I said, he missed a few, and one that had he bounced it outside, he'd still be running.

I think the reason he missed those though, is because he's the type of guy that once he thinks the play might get bottled up, he puts his head down and attempts to get a few yards regardless of the situation. If a guy is going to miss holes, I'd rather it be for reasons like that, rather than dancing in the backfield.

And yeah, I agree Dwyer's earned his job. I do think he should be dressing and playing every game - and getting a big load of the carries. I also think that Mendenhall should be getting just as many or almost as many in order to get him back up to speed - unless he just doesn't seem to have it. I saw a few bursts tonight from Mendenhall that got me a little excited. One went for four yards, but the speed with which he hit the hole as it was closing, and the way he drove the pile, looked pretty dang good.

One thing's for sure, Dwyer has thrown a big monkey wrench in this team's RB order going into camp next year. I think for the first time in a long time, the number 1 RB position will be up for grabs.

[bayz101]

Dwyer asked to be taken out of the game, what, three times? He's stamina isn't up to the standards of a starting NFL back, and considering he ran it fifteen times, i'd say he got his share.

[Steeldude]

The Steelers will let Mendenhall walk in 2013. They can't afford him based on their cap situation. Plus, Dwyer and Redman have shown they are just as good, if not better.

[fansince'76]

Dwyer asked to be taken out of the game, what, three times? He's stamina isn't up to the standards of a starting NFL back, and considering he ran it fifteen times, i'd say he got his share.

This. I noticed him tapping out several times.

[Count Steeler]

Again, our conditioning staff is letting us down. Dwyer was have Raven for breakfast, lunch and dinner, but he could not stay in for a long stretch. Need to improve in this area.

[Austin87]

The Steelers will let Mendenhall walk in 2013. They can't afford him based on their cap situation. Plus, Dwyer and Redman have shown they are just as good, if not better.

IMO Dwyer and Mendy are our best two backs. I hope they find a way to keep Mendenhall around, he is a complete package, something that cannot be said about Redman.

[Pristas]

I once again saw Mendy dance and get tackled for a loss. Johnson made the hole, which was tight, but Mendy chose to not go through it. Trade him. Dwyer has earned #1 with Redman a close second. Did anyone see that play I described? I was so pissed that Mendy didn't follow Johnson that I nearly threw up.

[X-Terminator]

I once again saw Mendy dance and get tackled for a loss. Johnson made the hole, which was tight, but Mendy chose to not go through it. Trade him. Dwyer has earned #1 with Redman a close second. Did anyone see that play I described? I was so pissed that Mendy didn't follow Johnson that I nearly threw up.

They don't need to trade Mendenhall - his contract is up after this season. But I, personally, do not want to see him go. He would be a better compliment to Dwyer than Redman, so I think he should be the odd man out.

[Steeldude]

They don't need to trade Mendenhall - his contract is up after this season. But I, personally, do not want to see him go. He would be a better compliment to Dwyer than Redman, so I think he should be the odd man out.

The only problem is the cap will restrict the Steelers from re-signing him. I can't see Mendenhall taking a pay-cut.

[X-Terminator]

The only problem is the cap will restrict the Steelers from re-signing him. I can't see Mendenhall taking a pay-cut.

True. He likely will be gone, but he's not going to get a huge contract from another team either. Just about every team worth a damn has salary cap issues, and only the crap teams have money to spend. I could see him out in Steelers West, though.

[Seven]

Dwyer asked to be taken out of the game, what, three times? He's stamina isn't up to the standards of a starting NFL back, and considering he ran it fifteen times, i'd say he got his share.

I understand that, but I addressed it in the OP - generally after he waved himself off they didn't send him back in on the drive. Why? A play off should have been enough to catch his breath.

[Psycho Ward 86]

You guys are speculating way too much about things you probably dont know anything about. Maybe he was out of breath, maybe he was banged up, maybe Haley just wanted a change of personnel.

[Seven]

You guys are speculating way too much about things you probably dont know anything about. Maybe he was out of breath, maybe he was banged up, maybe Haley just wanted a change of personnel.

It's the latter. Which is a problem. When you have a back picking up nearly 5 yards a carry - something he has been doing all season - and you still keep going back to guys like Redman, Mendenhall and Batch who have been averaging 2 or 3 yards per tout, you aren't doing your job as a coach.

[Steeldude]

IMO, I think Dwyer was tired. That happens when you are carrying the entire defense on your back : ) Also, Dwyer has been known to be out of shape.

[Dwinsgames]

I once again saw Mendy dance and get tackled for a loss. Johnson made the hole, which was tight, but Mendy chose to not go through it. Trade him. Dwyer has earned #1 with Redman a close second. Did anyone see that play I described? I was so pissed that Mendy didn't follow Johnson that I nearly threw up.


you can NOT trade anyone this time of year , the trade deadline has already passed .. I wanted to release him prior to the season he would have saved us quite a bit of cap space if he was not on the roster at final cutdown , they instead kept him for his to this point very limited role due to his health that they knew was a concern when they made the decision to keep him on ....

[Craic]

Dwyer asked to be taken out of the game, what, three times? He's stamina isn't up to the standards of a starting NFL back

Let's take a little deeper look however. Provided this is when he was asked to be taken out (I can't remember exactly when it was), he ran the ball three straight plays, 15 yards, 7 yards, 11 yards. Every one of those had contact and running after contact. The other times were after two straight plays with him, and again, included yards after contact.

In comparison, I went and looked at Adrian Peterson. Interestingly, in his last game, there was only one time that he went more than back-to-back plays. I think maybe what we saw was a camera focusing on Dwyer, more than Dwyer having an exceptionally bad stamina. I will also give that his stamina may be a bit down from his injury - you figure he probably went a week to two weeks without really pushing. This would have been his first week fully healed - if he is fully healed (looked like it).

Don't read the past into the present. Sure, he came into camp not in shape last year and the year before. But this year, according to the coaches, was a very different story. He came in 20 pounds lighter and in much better shape.


IMO, I think Dwyer was tired. That happens when you are carrying the entire defense on your back : ) Also, Dwyer has been known to be out of shape.

In the past, yeah. But not this year (see above).

[Psycho Ward 86]

It's the latter. Which is a problem. When you have a back picking up nearly 5 yards a carry - something he has been doing all season - and you still keep going back to guys like Redman, Mendenhall and Batch who have been averaging 2 or 3 yards per tout, you aren't doing your job as a coach.

agreed.

[Craic]

It's the latter. Which is a problem. When you have a back picking up nearly 5 yards a carry - something he has been doing all season - and you still keep going back to guys like Redman, Mendenhall and Batch who have been averaging 2 or 3 yards per tout, you aren't doing your job as a coach.

I think what they're referring to, is the three times that the camera caught Dwyer looking at the sidelines and actually calling to be subbed. Of course, he could have been asking whether they wanted him subbed - that we don't know.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Suddenness and Glide

[Seven]

Suddenness and Glide

:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

[Chidi29]

I still don't know how I feel about Dwyer. He does show flashes here and there and don't get me wrong, is performing a lot better than I think anyone expected him to do. And in a season with so many injuries at running back, his help has been invaluable.

But is he just the best of a bad situation coupled with a pretty good run blocking line? I'm on the fence. I think he's a guy that is slow in his cuts and who is pretty uncoordinated, especially in the open field when he tries to make someone miss. Though there have been games (like Washington) where he broke a good bit of tackles.

But to me, he's a guy that has to have his first read (playcall) open or he slows up, chops his feet, and can't get started again. And isn't going to make many miss.

Mendenhall is still the superior talent on this team. I think I'd even take Redman over Dwyer.

[Seven]

I still don't know how I feel about Dwyer. He does show flashes here and there and don't get me wrong, is performing a lot better than I think anyone expected him to do. And in a season with so many injuries at running back, his help has been invaluable.

But is he just the best of a bad situation coupled with a pretty good run blocking line? I'm on the fence. I think he's a guy that is slow in his cuts and who is pretty uncoordinated, especially in the open field when he tries to make someone miss. Though there have been games (like Washington) where he broke a good bit of tackles.

But to me, he's a guy that has to have his first read (playcall) open or he slows up, chops his feet, and can't get started again. And isn't going to make many miss.

Mendenhall is still the superior talent on this team. I think I'd even take Redman over Dwyer.

I like Mendenhall a lot. And Dwyer is sloppy in a few areas... his body still looks like it's on the pizza & beer diet, for one - no matter what the coaching staff says. And I can concede his finesse moves are laughable. But you can only overanalyze so much before it becomes fruitless. This decision is simple.

4.6

3.6

3.5

Dwyer, Mendenhall, Redman - rushing averages respectively. Throw everything else out, because at least until we get Ben back, nothing else matters. Production > talent. If this changes next week and Dwyer has 2 YPC and Mendenhall has 5, fine. Make the change then. But don't take Dwyer out because you think another back has more talent. That’s ignorant. Like I said, I think Rashard is a great weapon. But Dwyer is consistent. And it has been a LONG time since there has been a consistent producer in the backfield for this team.

[Chidi29]

I attribute a lot of that to the line. The o-line was menacing against Washington and Cincy...anyone could have had success there. I view Dwyer as more of a "get what's blocked but nothing more" back.

I get your point about the talent/production, but the idea of saying ignore the more talented guy just strikes me as off.

[Seven]

I attribute a lot of that to the line. The o-line was menacing against Washington and Cincy...anyone could have had success there. I view Dwyer as more of a "get what's blocked but nothing more" back.

I get your point about the talent/production, but the idea of saying ignore the more talented guy just strikes me as off.

I disagree that anyone could have had success there. Anyone should, but who knows. Dwyer had 12 for 55 against the Ravens and Mendenhall had 11 for 33. I know on at least one occasion Mendenhall got blown up in the backfield due to a lack of blocking, but he also danced behind wide open holes, too. If what you're saying is true, and both backs got the same amount of carries, shouldn't the back with perceived superior talent at least be close to the inferior back in yardage? I would think so.

And your "get what is there but nothing more" observation is, well, wrong. Do you realize how much of Dwyer's yardage comes after contact? I think maybe what you are trying to say is that he's not a gamebreaker.

[Craic]

But to me, he's a guy that has to have his first read (playcall) open or he slows up, chops his feet, and can't get started again. And isn't going to make many miss.

Mendenhall is still the superior talent on this team. I think I'd even take Redman over Dwyer.

Not me. Redman makes one cut, and then goes straight forward, regardless of what's there. That's good at times, but at least Dwyer IS able to see holes and run through them. No, he doesn't make many miss, but his yards after contact is pretty impressive.

[Chidi29]

I disagree that anyone could have had success there. Anyone should, but who knows. Dwyer had 12 for 55 against the Ravens and Mendenhall had 11 for 33. I know on at least one occasion Mendenhall got blown up in the backfield due to a lack of blocking, but he also danced behind wide open holes, too. If what you're saying is true, and both backs got the same amount of carries, shouldn't the back with perceived superior talent at least be close to the inferior back in yardage? I would think so.

And your "get what is there but nothing more" observation is, well, wrong. Do you realize how much of Dwyer's yardage comes after contact? I think maybe what you are trying to say is that he's not a gamebreaker.

I won't base my analysis off of one game or one run here and there. Sample size is way too small.

I think any back of Dwyer's size would get that kind of YAC. He is a big guy and tends to fall forward like any other big guy that gets any sort of forward momentum. But when you see him in the open field, even realizing he isn't Barry Sanders, he goes down too easily. I really don't see a defining trait in Dwyer's game. I see that in Redman and Mendenhall.

- - - Updated - - -


Not me. Redman makes one cut, and then goes straight forward, regardless of what's there. That's good at times, but at least Dwyer IS able to see holes and run through them. No, he doesn't make many miss, but his yards after contact is pretty impressive.

Like I just said in my other post, Redman has a defining quality. He can somehow churn out these 5/6 gains when it looks like he is stood up at the LOS. He has incredible leg drive and lower body strength.

[Seven]

I won't base my analysis off of one game or one run here and there. Sample size is way too small.

I think any back of Dwyer's size would get that kind of YAC. He is a big guy and tends to fall forward like any other big guy that gets any sort of forward momentum. But when you see him in the open field, even realizing he isn't Barry Sanders, he goes down too easily. I really don't see a defining trait in Dwyer's game. I see that in Redman and Mendenhall.

So that's a reason to discount that skill? Because he's big, it doesn't count? Who gives a shit. Not to mention there have been plenty of backs that size who have got nowhere near that amount of YAC, so the observation is incorrect to begin with.

And how does he go down "too easily" when you just acknowledged he has good YAC?

[Seven]

Like I just said in my other post, Redman has a defining quality. He can somehow churn out these 5/6 gains when it looks like he is stood up at the LOS. He has incredible leg drive and lower body strength.

But Redman is listed 6'0, 230 - so that doesn't count, right? Any back that big would be just as successful at that. :rolleyes:

[Chidi29]

I don't think he has as good YAC as it's made out to be. I don't know what the numbers are, that's just based off my eye test. I'm saying that big backs are harder to bring down because they're big and it's easier for them to fall forward than the 180 pounder.

I think Dwyer is slow in his cuts and struggles to make guys miss in the open field. I don't see a special quality in him. At least, not consistently enough.

[Seven]

I don't think he has as good YAC as it's made out to be. I don't know what the numbers are, that's just based off my eye test. I'm saying that big backs are harder to bring down because they're big and it's easier for them to fall forward than the 180 pounder.

I think Dwyer is slow in his cuts and struggles to make guys miss in the open field. I don't see a special quality in him. At least, not consistently enough.

But again, you're putting talent over production. Did Emmitt Smith have a special quality? Dwyer's special quality is 4.6 yards per carry. As I've said before, if Mendenhall or Redman comes in and puts that to shame - fine. But don't try and say either of those guys are better players right now when they have been running behind the same line with poorer results. Again, Dwyer and Mendenhall both played against Baltimore, and one rushed for 55 while the other got 33 - on the same number of carries (*1).

[Chidi29]

Mendenhall did not get to run behind the huge holes opened up in the Redskin or Bengal game.

[Seven]

Mendenhall did not get to run behind the huge holes opened up in the Redskin or Bengal game.

That's unfortunate. But that has nothing to do with his attempts the other night.

[Chidi29]

But Redman is listed 6'0, 230 - so that doesn't count, right? Any back that big would be just as successful at that. :rolleyes:

But I bet Redman's YAC is much higher than that. We've seen him churn out those crazy, 6-7 yards after contact time and time again that's abnormal for any back. Dwyer doesn't do that.

[Dwinsgames]

But I bet Redman's YAC is much higher than that. We've seen him churn out those crazy, 6-7 yards after contact time and time again that's abnormal for any back. Dwyer doesn't do that.


they said during the Ravens game that Dwyer leads the league in yards after contact , is it true I do not know where to find those stats but I find it hard to argue with from watching the games he has a propensity to bounce of tackles and keep his legs moving and churn through tacklers .....

[Psycho Ward 86]

But I bet Redman's YAC is much higher than that. We've seen him churn out those crazy, 6-7 yards after contact time and time again that's abnormal for any back. Dwyer doesn't do that.

he absolutely does. him and redman both. there used to be all this rah rah about the explosiveness that mendenhall brings to the table. still waiting.

Part of it though is because we run between the tackles too much, and dwyer and redman seeem better for that. They showed statistics of where we've been running the ball when we played the ravens. I forget the exact statistic, but i believe we only run outside the tackles about 15% according to those statistics?

[Craic]

But I bet Redman's YAC is much higher than that. We've seen him churn out those crazy, 6-7 yards after contact time and time again that's abnormal for any back. Dwyer doesn't do that.

Most of the time though, it's 1 or 2 yards after contact. I mean, positive yardage is positive yardage after contact, but it's not 6-7 yards that he's churning out all the time.

[Chidi29]

Most of the time though, it's 1 or 2 yards after contact. I mean, positive yardage is positive yardage after contact, but it's not 6-7 yards that he's churning out all the time.

Dwyer is the guy that is alswyas good for 1-2 YAC because he is that big guy and most of them fall forward because they're so big. You're right that Redman doesn't always get that 6-7 yards but it happens a lot more frequently with Redman than Dwyer. That's my main point. Dwyer does get YAC but it's nothing special for a guy of his size. Some of the runs that Redman busts off are really awe-inspiring. And yes, you get it here and there from Dwyer but not nearly consistent enough.

- - - Updated - - -

And keep in mind I was one of the few that called Redman overrated too. So I wasn't, and still not, all that big on Redman either.

[Dwinsgames]

Dwyer is the guy that is alswyas good for 1-2 YAC because he is that big guy and most of them fall forward because they're so big. You're right that Redman doesn't always get that 6-7 yards but it happens a lot more frequently with Redman than Dwyer. That's my main point. Dwyer does get YAC but it's nothing special for a guy of his size. Some of the runs that Redman busts off are really awe-inspiring. And yes, you get it here and there from Dwyer but not nearly consistent enough.

what your forgetting about is all the runs Dwyer give us that go for 15-20-25 or so and he did so after bouncing off a tackler and breaking another on his way to the big gain ... those kinds of runs stack up in a hurry and he has quite a few considering all the playing time he has had he also has been hit behind the LOS and busted it for 5-8 yards multiple times

[Chidi29]

what your forgetting about is all the runs Dwyer give us that go for 15-20-25 or so and he did so after bouncing off a tackler and breaking another on his way to the big gain ... those kinds of runs stack up in a hurry and he has quite a few considering all the playing time he has had he also has been hit behind the LOS and busted it for 5-8 yards multiple times

I really only remember that in the Washington game. Other than that, any big runs have come off of great blocking.

[Dwinsgames]

I really only remember that in the Washington game. Other than that, any big runs have come off of great blocking.


great blocking can still provide the RB with some measure of resistance all someone has to do is lay a hand on him or stick out their arm and touch him and its considered contact ....

[Dwinsgames]

410 yards for Dwyer on 89 attempts .. Redman 300 on 85 attempts .... one should assume that contact averages out to be at approximation the same place behind the same line the ypc average should be reasonably close to the difference in yards after contact in theory anyways now not EVERY play will be 100% accurate but it should provide a reasonable point of reference ( in other words not an exact science and without watching every play by each of them over and charting it that's the best I can do to explain )

But lets also keep in mind the line play has been far better in recent weeks than at the beginning of the season so the scale is somewhat tilted in favor of Dwyer who has had most of the more recent carries

[Chidi29]

410 yards for Dwyer on 89 attempts .. Redman 300 on 85 attempts .... one should assume that contact averages out to be at approximation the same place behind the same line the ypc average should be reasonably close to the difference in yards after contact in theory anyways now not EVERY play will be 100% accurate but it should provide a reasonable point of reference ( in other words not an exact science and without watching every play by each of them over and charting it that's the best I can do to explain )

But lets also keep in mind the line play has been far better in recent weeks than at the beginning of the season so the scale is somewhat tilted in favor of Dwyer who has had most of the more recent carries

And that's another reason why I prefer not to look at the numbers. Dwyer got to feast behind our two best run blocking games this season in Washington and Cincy.

I'm not basing my argument off stats, it's based off what I've seen on tape.

[Dwinsgames]

And that's another reason why I prefer not to look at the numbers. Dwyer got to feast behind our two best run blocking games this season in Washington and Cincy.

I'm not basing my argument off stats, it's based off what I've seen on tape.


Perhaps he was part of the reason there was a feast .......

I have not missed a down of Steelers football since I was 7 years old ..... that is 42 years ago and I think Dwyer is the best RB on this football team ...

if you do not see it that way then we can agree to disagree but know in the end we will both cheer on whomever is toting the rock each and every week :drink:

[Chidi29]

Perhaps he was part of the reason there was a feast .......

I have not missed a down of Steelers football since I was 7 years old ..... that is 42 years ago and I think Dwyer is the best RB on this football team ...

if you do not see it that way then we can agree to disagree but know in the end we will both cheer on whomever is toting the rock each and every week :drink:

I don't really buy that argument. If the holes are there, they're there. Doesn't really depend on the running back if the guard can kick out the linebacker.

But we agree there. If the team wins, I don't care who is in the backfield. :drink:

[Dwinsgames]

I don't really buy that argument. If the holes are there, they're there. Doesn't really depend on the running back if the guard can kick out the linebacker.

But we agree there. If the team wins, I don't care who is in the backfield. :drink:


oh but it does matter , vision is key at RB .... so many times its clear a play is designed to go to the right or the left whichever and you see the Tailback surveying the field and make a cut and take it to the hole that presented itself ... its something that takes place on every down for a guy like Dwyer who is not playing tight to the los in a 2 back set he is back 8 yards from the LOS ...vision is EVERYTHING , seeing the hole , hitting the hole with authority even when it shows up where its not designed to be ... making the adjustments and taking what is there and trying to exploit it for more ...

[Chidi29]

But when the holes are there, which they certainly were in those games, any back can find them and have success.

It's hard for me to talk about his vision, but Dwyer's change of direction is really poor. Chops his feet, very sluggish.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Perhaps he was part of the reason there was a feast .......

I have not missed a down of Steelers football since I was 7 years old ..... that is 42 years ago and I think Dwyer is the best RB on this football team ...

if you do not see it that way then we can agree to disagree but know in the end we will both cheer on whomever is toting the rock each and every week :drink:

doesnt matter if youve never missed a game. clearly you have no knowledge of the variables surrounding a runningback's success, say.....a high ankle sprain on isaac redman??? If youve ever had one of those you know comparing yards and attempts between redman and dwyer is a one sided child beating. Although I do agree that dwyer is our best back right now. As a pure runner anyways.

[Dwinsgames]

doesnt matter if youve never missed a game. clearly you have no knowledge of the variables surrounding a runningback's success, say.....a high ankle sprain on isaac redman??? If youve ever had one of those you know comparing yards and attempts between redman and dwyer is a one sided child beating. Although I do agree that dwyer is our best back right now. As a pure runner anyways.


ummm ok if you say so ( where is that eye roll emote ? ) :rolleyes: oh there it is

[GBMelBlount]

I attribute a lot of that to the line. The o-line was menacing against Washington and Cincy...anyone could have had success there.

I view Dwyer as more of a "get what's blocked but nothing more" back.

I get your point about the talent/production, but the idea of saying ignore the more talented guy just strikes me as off.

Dear Lord.

I am almost afraid to ask this question BUT....what in the world do you mean when you refer to Dwyer as a

"get what's blocked but nothing more" back.

[Chidi29]

Dear Lord.

I am almost afraid to ask this question BUT....what in the world do you mean when you refer to Dwyer as a

"get what's blocked but nothing more" back.

Dwyer will get what is there in the initial hole but is not a danger in the open field and really doesn't do much as he gets into the second/third level. He's more of a plodder who lacks a special quality. Sure, he will reel off a nice run here and there and again, I was impressed with him as a whole against Washington (if you look at my game thoughts, you can see I've gone back and forth on Dwyer and even as I said in the beginning of this thread, I'm still a little on the fence) but he isn't that impressive.

[Dwinsgames]

Dwyer will get what is there in the initial hole but is not a danger in the open field and really doesn't do much as he gets into the second/third level. He's more of a plodder who lacks a special quality. Sure, he will reel off a nice run here and there and again, I was impressed with him as a whole against Washington (if you look at my game thoughts, you can see I've gone back and forth on Dwyer and even as I said in the beginning of this thread, I'm still a little on the fence) but he isn't that impressive.


the more you speak on the subject the more clear it becomes you do not even watch the games

[Chidi29]

the more you speak on the subject the more clear it becomes you do not even watch the games

I'll quote something you should be very familiar with.

"ummm ok if you say so ( where is that eye roll emote ? ) oh there it is"

[GBMelBlount]

the more you speak on the subject the more clear it becomes you do not even watch the games

Actually Chidi watches and does extensive play by play break downs of the games for Steelers Universe and does a pretty amazing job.

...and by the way, thank you Chidi.

However everyone can watch the same things and formulate different opinions.

This is just and example where Chidi and differ a little.

Just a conversation.

[Dwinsgames]

Going into the Bengals game the Steelers as a team only had 7 runs of 10 yards or more on the season ....by the end of that game the Steelers had 15 runs of 10 yards or more including a 21 yard run and 32 yard run by Dwyer ...... guess the O-Line was blocking 20 and 30 yards down field or at least Chidi29 would have you to believe that is the case ....

as a side note I am not here to pick fights but I will be damned if I will stand by and have my football intelligence question by someone who clearly has not the first clue in what they are talking about ....
Yes I am the new guy , and I expect to be tested by long time members and that is fine I welcome the challenge .... but in the future don't send a boy to do a mans job if that is what this is all about ...

have a nice Thanksgiving all

Dwins Out

[Chidi29]

I'm not trying to attack you, man. It's a forum, people debate. I'm not the one who said you had "no knowledge of variables..." That was another guy. Don't take it out on me.

[GBMelBlount]

Chidi29

Dwyer will get what is there in the initial hole but is not a danger in the open field and really doesn't do much as he gets into the second/third level.

I understand your point but there is a LOT between an "initial hole" and "open field" in many cases and I think that is where Dwyer excels.

He will never have that open field gear that Mendy has but his excellent YAC is because he is a powerful between the tackles runner iimo and this makes him a better fit for our current offense.

They simply have two different running styles and areas of strength and I personally feel Dwyer (so far) seems like a nice fit for our current line.

I also think they should maybe use mendy a little more creatively to the outside.

[Chidi29]

For example, check out the 21 yarder you mentioned. Very well blocked, CB takes himself out of the play, no one unblocked in the picture here. And I believe that Dwyer went down untouched at the end of this run. Tripped over himself.

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/Clements1.png

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/Clements2.png

[Count Steeler]

The Ravens game is probably the first game where 2 of the backs were healthy enough to have a meaningful comparison. If anyone was reading the game thread, I was hoping beyond hope that Mendy would have a big game and I kept willing him to have a big game. I honestly felt he would break off a long run at any time, and he just needed the carries.

However, on Sunday night, Dwyer was the better back. I remember on one series, Dwyer went 2 carries for 8 yards and then we converted on 3rd down. On the next 2 downs, Mendy got all of 2 yards. Same line, same game, within 5 plays. Mendy is not a tackle to tackle back. If we run him off tackle, he will excel. Dwyer can bang it between the tackles. So it seems pretty clear to me, if you want to run inside, Dwyer is your back. If you want to bounce outside, Mendy is your back.

[Psycho Ward 86]

the more you speak on the subject the more clear it becomes you do not even watch the games

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/001/582/picard-facepalm.jpg?1240934151

- - - Updated - - -

and seriously guy.....an eye roll at the notion that isaac redman has been playing extensively on a high ankle sprain. lol. sorry you dont pay attention to the injury updates

[Seven]

But I bet Redman's YAC is much higher than that. We've seen him churn out those crazy, 6-7 yards after contact time and time again that's abnormal for any back. Dwyer doesn't do that.

Chidi, you seem to be a smart poster but I think you're just a little too stubborn on this topic. It's really not even arguable that Dwyer isn't the best option right now. He and Mendenhall both played behind the same line against Baltimore and 27 outproduced 34 significantly. You keep failing to address this. I'm not going to claim you don't watch the games or anything, but to say Dwyer doesn't get several yards after contact is just ignorant and inconsiderate of what is actually happening on the field.

Normally with a debate like this I'd say we can agree to disagree, but I feel very strongly about this one. So keep it coming if you care to.

[Chidi29]

Chidi, you seem to be a smart poster but I think you're just a little too stubborn on this topic. It's really not even arguable that Dwyer isn't the best option right now. He and Mendenhall both played behind the same line against Baltimore and 27 outproduced 34 significantly. You keep failing to address this. I'm not going to claim you don't watch the games or anything, but to say Dwyer doesn't get several yards after contact is just ignorant and inconsiderate of what is actually happening on the field.

Normally with a debate like this I'd say we can agree to disagree, but I feel very strongly about this one. So keep it coming if you care to.

Remember Mendenhall hadn't played in a few games and is still probably shaking off a ton of rust considering he had just what, 10 carries coming into this game since January?

We can't base our decisions off of one game or a few carries here and there. That's a knee-jerk reaction and the last thing I want our coaches to do. Compare one game and make a judgement when there is so much other evidence to work off of.

Dwyer does get a little YAC but does anyone think he is a harder downhill runner than Redman? I don't. Does anyone think he is as talented as Mendenhall? I don't. I liken Dwyer to a poorer man's version of LeGarrette Blount. A big guy but not that power runner like an in-prime Brandon Jacobs.

[Seven]

Remember Mendenhall hadn't played in a few games and is still probably shaking off a ton of rust considering he had just what, 10 carries coming into this game since January?

That's fair, but as I said on page one, if things change - fine, put Mendenhall in. But that doesn't help us right now. We can't sacrifice the season because we want to let our perceived top runningback shake off some rust.


We can't base our decisions off of one game or a few carries here and there. That's a knee-jerk reaction and the last thing I want our coaches to do. Compare one game and make a judgement when there is so much other evidence to work off of.

What other evidence? You just said Mendenhall has only had 10 carries since January. Evidence from practice? Of course Mendenhall is going to be more impressive in practice. Dwyer is sloppy, but on gameday he's flat out better. And taking your time to make important decisions is all well and good for us, but the staff doesn't have that luxury. If it's 3rd & 3 @Cleveland this weekend and the call is run they better know who is the right guy to get those 3.



Dwyer does get a little YAC but does anyone think he is a harder downhill runner than Redman? I don't. Does anyone think he is as talented as Mendenhall? I don't. I liken Dwyer to a poorer man's version of LeGarrette Blount. A big guy but not that power runner like an in-prime Brandon Jacobs.

Again, to use a Tomlinism - I don't give a shit about style points. I don't care what you call it, 4.6 yards per carry on the season is excellent. You can talk about all the ifs, ands or buts that you want but at the end of the day the "poor man's LeGarrette Blount" is outperforming both Redman and Mendenhall right now.

[Chidi29]

That's fair, but as I said on page one, if things change - fine, put Mendenhall in. But that doesn't help us right now. We can't sacrifice the season because we want to let our perceived top runningback shake off some rust.



What other evidence? You just said Mendenhall has only had 10 carries since January. Evidence from practice? f course Mendenhall is going to be more impressive in practice. Dwyer is sloppy, but in game he's better. And taking your time to make important decisions is all well and good for us, but the staff doesn't have that luxury. If it's 3rd & 3 @Cleveland this weekend and the call is run they better know who is the right guy to get those 3.




Again, to use a Tomlinism - I don't give a shit about style points. I don't care what you call it, 4.6 yards per carry on the season is excellent. You can talk about all the ifs, ands or buts that you want but at the end of the day the "poor man's LeGarrette Blount" is outperforming both Redman and Mendenhall right now.

I never said I'd completely phase Dwyer out. I'm not getting rid of anyone. No one is being sacrificed. But Mendenhall would be my guy.

Other evidence meaning Mendenhall's entire career. I know that when healthy, he is a three down back and has a boatload of talent. I never understood why Steelers' fans showed so much hatred towards him. This is just like the people that wanted to get rid of Mendenhall for Redman the past two seasons.

[Seven]

I never said I'd completely phase Dwyer out. I'm not getting rid of anyone. No one is being sacrificed. But Mendenhall would be my guy.

Other evidence meaning Mendenhall's entire career. I know that when healthy, he is a three down back and has a boatload of talent. I never understood why Steelers' fans showed so much hatred towards him. This is just like the people that wanted to get rid of Mendenhall for Redman the past two seasons.

I'm with you there. I prefer Mendenhall to Redman, never got the "suddeness and glide" movement, myself. But this isn't "just like" that situation. Because Redman never put together a season like Dwyer is having right now. If you want to say that Dwyer is simply a byproduct of the good offensive line play we've seen this season, until another back can run with the consistency Dwyer has, I just can't agree. There's no proof.

[Chidi29]

I'm with you there. I prefer Mendenhall to Redman, never got the "suddeness and glide" movement, myself. But this isn't "just like" that situation. Because Redman never put together a season like Dwyer is having right now. If you want to say that Dwyer is simply a byproduct of the good offensive line play we've seen this season, until another back can run with the consistency Dwyer has, I just can't agree. There's no proof.

I can't show you stats, since it's tough to compare backs because of all the injuries, I can just tell you what I see watching and rewatching the games.

[Seven]

I can't show you stats, since it's tough to compare backs because of all the injuries, I can just tell you what I see watching and rewatching the games.

That's fine if you feel that way, but I don't entirely discount the stats simply because a guy has been injured. That doesn't give the player a free pass. If a guy is healthy enough to play, I assume he's healthy enough to perform.

There are several of us who watch and re-watch the games, and as far as I can tell, you're the only one who feels the way you do about Dwyer vs. Mendenhall (cc: Redman haha). So, unless you're just that much better at evaluation... :noidea:

[Chidi29]

Well it's not just the stats in games someone played. In Mendenhall's case, it's a lack of games played and a lack of stats to make comparisons between Dwyer and Mendy.

[Seven]

Well it's not just the stats in games someone played. In Mendenhall's case, it's a lack of games played and a lack of stats to make comparisons between Dwyer and Mendy.

Well hey, we can always revisit this thread after we dispatch of the Browns and see where things stand, then. Maybe Mendenhall will explode this week, but I have a pretty good feeling if they get equal opportunities Dwyer will outperform him again.

[Chidi29]

I don't always base performance off of numbers. Which is why I say Dwyer is a "get what is blocked" back. That he needs some wide open holes generated by a good offensive line to look good. But we'll see. Maybe Dwyer looks like he did against Washington which was an impressive game on his part.

[Seven]

UPDATE:


According to 93.7 Dwyer says he absolutely could have stayed in the game, but was instructed to come out as soon as he felt the slightest bit tired because the coaching staff wanted to keep "fresh legs" in the game. So, it appears we were wrong and it wasn't his conditioning that made him tap out.

[86WARD]

I still don't know how I feel about Dwyer. He does show flashes here and there and don't get me wrong, is performing a lot better than I think anyone expected him to do. And in a season with so many injuries at running back, his help has been invaluable.

But is he just the best of a bad situation coupled with a pretty good run blocking line? I'm on the fence. I think he's a guy that is slow in his cuts and who is pretty uncoordinated, especially in the open field when he tries to make someone miss. Though there have been games (like Washington) where he broke a good bit of tackles.

But to me, he's a guy that has to have his first read (playcall) open or he slows up, chops his feet, and can't get started again. And isn't going to make many miss.

Mendenhall is still the superior talent on this team. I think I'd even take Redman over Dwyer.

I've always had confidence in Dwyer. It's noted all over this board and he's a better runner than Redman. Mendenhall should still be #1 on the depth chart, but IMO, Dwyer is easily #2.

[zulater]

UPDATE:


According to 93.7 Dwyer says he absolutely could have stayed in the game, but was instructed to come out as soon as he felt the slightest bit tired because the coaching staff wanted to keep "fresh legs" in the game. So, it appears we were wrong and it wasn't his conditioning that made him tap out.

Yeah but that could have been done to protect his hamstring. Remember after consecutive hundred yard games he had to miss the next week because he tweaked his hammie. So maybe the staff thought he was more vulnerable to re-injury at a certain point of fatigue.

- - - Updated - - -


I've always had confidence in Dwyer. It's noted all over this board and he's a better runner than Redman. Mendenhall should still be #1 on the depth chart, but IMO, Dwyer is easily #2.

Redman is the teams best short yardage back. In fact I think he's got the highest conversion rate for 3rd and 2 or less in the league.

You have to wonder if the let Mendenhall walk after this season and go with Dwyer and Redman?

[Seven]

You have to wonder if the let Mendenhall walk after this season and go with Dwyer and Redman?

Unless they can re-sign him for next to nothing you would have to think so.

[steeldawg]

Im sorry guys i know dwyer has performed well but Mendy is an absolute beast when he is full go!

[Steeldude]

Im sorry guys i know dwyer has performed well but Mendy is an absolute beast when he is full go!

Since when? His career shows he has been pretty average. This is another player who has a good 40 time, right?

He will most likely be a cap casualty in 2013.

[Seven]

Since when? His career shows he has been pretty average.

Not really. He's been an above average player for sure. 4.1 yards per carry, 29 touchdowns and 23 runs of over 20 yards isn't shabby - particularly behind the offensive line he has played behind for most of his career. He's certainly not as average as Redman. But you're probably right about him not being on this team next season.

[steeldawg]

Since when? His career shows he has been pretty average. This is another player who has a good 40 time, right?

He will most likely be a cap casualty in 2013.


1000yd back good speed good power good agility can score from anywhere on the field. Im not getting into another arguement with you, mendy is a beast and when hes healthy and rolling there will be no splitting carries he will be the man getting the ball.

[Seven]

1000yd back good speed good power good agility can score from anywhere on the field. Im not getting into another arguement with you, mendy is a beast and when hes healthy and rolling there will be no splitting carries he will be the man getting the ball.

I think Mendenhall is a good player, but I can't agree that he won't be splitting carries. That's silly. Dwyer has performed better this year than 34 ever has.

I think the best thing the coaching staff could do would be to play Mendenhall on second down and passing downs. Sounds weird, I know - but I wouldn't play him on first downs because he takes too many losses. Let Dwyer run on first downs so you can get it into 2nd & short then bring Rashard in and give him that shot at a homerun. Then, hopefully, even if he takes a loss it's still 3rd & manageable.

[steeldawg]

I think Mendenhall is a good player, but I can't agree that he won't be splitting carries. That's silly. Dwyer has performed better this year than 34 ever has.

I think the best thing the coaching staff could do would be to play Mendenhall on second down and passing downs. Sounds weird, I know - but I wouldn't play him on first downs because he takes too many losses. Let Dwyer run on first downs so you can get it into 2nd & short then bring Rashard in and give him that shot at a homerun. Then, hopefully, even if he takes a loss it's still 3rd & manageable.

Wait Dwyer has performed better than mendenhall ever has???? he had 2 decent games but really hasnt done anything else. Menenhall has 843 carries dwyer has 114 carries so lets not go crazy just yet. mendenhall is still the best back on this team.

[Steeldude]

Not really. He's been an above average player for sure. 4.1 yards per carry, 29 touchdowns and 23 runs of over 20 yards isn't shabby - particularly behind the offensive line he has played behind for most of his career. He's certainly not as average as Redman. But you're probably right about him not being on this team next season.

Looking at averages for the last few years, compared to other RBs, shows Mendenhall to be average. I'll give you a little above average. The problem is he isn't going to want a reduced salary. I can't see how the Steelers are going to pay him with other areas that are far more pressing.

[steeldawg]

I think Mendenhall is a good player, but I can't agree that he won't be splitting carries. That's silly. Dwyer has performed better this year than 34 ever has.

I think the best thing the coaching staff could do would be to play Mendenhall on second down and passing downs. Sounds weird, I know - but I wouldn't play him on first downs because he takes too many losses. Let Dwyer run on first downs so you can get it into 2nd & short then bring Rashard in and give him that shot at a homerun. Then, hopefully, even if he takes a loss it's still 3rd & manageable.

Just take dwyers first 3 years with the steelers and compare them to mendys first 3 years with the steelers and then tell me dwyer has done better the mandy ever has.

- - - Updated - - -


Looking at averages for the last few years, compared to other RBs, shows Mendenhall to be average. I'll give you a little above average. The problem is he isn't going to want a reduced salary. I can't see how the Steelers are going to pay him with other areas that are far more pressing.

I dont know what they will do with him because of his salary but hes a good back and the best one on this team by far.

[Seven]

Looking at averages for the last few years, compared to other RBs, shows Mendenhall to be average. I'll give you a little above average. The problem is he isn't going to want a reduced salary. I can't see how the Steelers are going to pay him with other areas that are far more pressing.

Then we basically agree.


Wait Dwyer has performed better than mendenhall ever has???? he had 2 decent games but really hasnt done anything else. Menenhall has 843 carries dwyer has 114 carries so lets not go crazy just yet. mendenhall is still the best back on this team.

I've never seen Mendenhall play with the type of consistency Dwyer has. Since week one he's been the best ball carrier on this squad. Hopefully Rashard has a great week, but Dwyer won the battle of the two last game - and I see that trend continuing.

[steeldawg]

Then we basically agree.



I've never seen Mendenhall play with the type of consistency Dwyer has. Since week one he's been the best ball carrier on this squad. Hopefully Rashard has a great week, but Dwyer won the battle of the two last game - and I see that trend continuing.

Lol really you call what hes done this season consistency? 89 carries through 11 games is consistent? no tds for a running back is consistent? Last 2 games mendy's first game back was the ravens and he was limited kc he didnt play, i would hope dwyer wins that battle. When dwyer can play a whole season as the main back and do what mendy has done then you can call him consistent.

[Seven]

Lol really you call what hes done this season consistency? 89 carries through 11 games is consistent? no tds for a running back is consistent? Last 2 games mendy's first game back was the ravens and he was limited kc he didnt play, i would hope dwyer wins that battle. When dwyer can play a whole season as the main back and do what mendy has done then you can call him consistent.

Okay. You seriously need to slow down and think about what you're typing before you hit submit - because that post makes even less sense than you usually do. I honestly don't think anything you said here even deserves a response, but I'm bored so I'll enlighten you.

1. What does 89 carries have to do with anything? He has a 4.6 yard average on the carries he's been given.

2. "Last 2 games" what? Who said anything about the last two games? Last week Dwyer had 12 carries for 55 yards, Mendenhall had 11 for 33.

3. Dwyer is the team's leading rusher. He has a higher average than Mendenhall has ever had over the course of a season.

[Steeldude]

1000yd back good speed good power good agility can score from anywhere on the field. Im not getting into another arguement with you, mendy is a beast and when hes healthy and rolling there will be no splitting carries he will be the man getting the ball.

I agree he has speed, size and hands. He also has durability issues and his output has been rather average, for the most part. Dwyer would be cheaper. You are disregarding the cap. You want to hand big money to all of these players, but there is only so much money. $82 million is wrapped up in 7 Steelers in 2013. That leaves roughly $40 million for everyone else.

Gaining a 1,000 yards is nothing in the NFL. You only need to average 62.5 yards a game to get 1,000 yards.

[steeldawg]

I agree he has speed, size and hands. He also has durability issues and his output has been rather average, for the most part. Dwyer would be cheaper. You are disregarding the cap. You want to hand big money to all of these players, but there is only so much money. $82 million is wrapped up in 7 Steelers in 2013. That leaves roughly $40 million for everyone else.

Gaining a 1,000 yards is nothing in the NFL. You only need to average 62.5 yards a game to get 1,000 yards.

Why do you put words in my mouth i never said anything about money regarding mendy, my arguement is only hes a better back than dwyer.

[Seven]

Why do you put words in my mouth i never said anything about money regarding mendy, my arguement is only hes a better back than dwyer.

But, he's not.

[steeldawg]

Then we basically agree.



I've never seen Mendenhall play with the type of consistency Dwyer has. Since week one he's been the best ball carrier on this squad. Hopefully Rashard has a great week, but Dwyer won the battle of the two last game - and I see that trend continuing.

Is that not your post that says" dwyer won the battle the last two game" so how am i not making sense?

- - - Updated - - -


Okay. You seriously need to slow down and think about what you're typing before you hit submit - because that post makes even less sense than you usually do. I honestly don't think anything you said here even deserves a response, but I'm bored so I'll enlighten you.

1. What does 89 carries have to do with anything? He has a 4.6 yard average on the carries he's been given.

2. "Last 2 games" what? Who said anything about the last two games? Last week Dwyer had 12 carries for 55 yards, Mendenhall had 11 for 33.

3. Dwyer is the team's leading rusher. He has a higher average than Mendenhall has ever had over the course of a season.

HE ONLY HAS 89 CARRIES IF YOU CARRY THE BALL LESS THE CHANCE OF YOU HAVING A HIGHER AVERAGE IS BETTER. Mendenhall has a 4.1 career average over 843 carries dwyer has a 4.9 over 114 and hes has never had to carry the load consistently, its not even close.

[steeldawg]

Okay. You seriously need to slow down and think about what you're typing before you hit submit - because that post makes even less sense than you usually do. I honestly don't think anything you said here even deserves a response, but I'm bored so I'll enlighten you.

1. What does 89 carries have to do with anything? He has a 4.6 yard average on the carries he's been given.

2. "Last 2 games" what? Who said anything about the last two games? Last week Dwyer had 12 carries for 55 yards, Mendenhall had 11 for 33.

3. Dwyer is the team's leading rusher. He has a higher average than Mendenhall has ever had over the course of a season.

Ya hes the leading rusher with 410yds and no touchdowns and hes played 7 games oh ya definetly the best back. And no 2009 mendenhall 1100 yds 4.6 per 7 tds 1 rec td

[Seven]

Is that not your post that says" dwyer won the battle the last two game" so how am i not making sense?

Dear lord. I said "hopefully Rashard has a great week - but Dwyer won the battle - of the two - last game"

Are you able to comprehend that? Like I said, slow down and pay attention to what you're reading/writing. You don't have to run to the response box within seconds of reading what someone else wrote.


HE ONLY HAS 89 CARRIES IF YOU CARRY THE BALL LESS THE CHANCE OF YOU HAVING A HIGHER AVERAGE IS BETTER. Mendenhall has a 4.1 career average over 843 carries dwyer has a 4.9 over 114 and hes has never had to carry the load consistently, its not even close.

Oh I see, that must be why Mendenhall has a 3.6 YPC average this year then, on 30 carries? So, according to even you, Dwyer is superior.

[steeldawg]

Dear lord. I said "hopefully Rashard has a great week - but Dwyer won the battle - of the two - last game"

Are you able to comprehend that? Like I said, slow down and pay attention to what you're reading/writing. You don't have to run to the response box within seconds of reading what someone else wrote.



Oh I see, that must be why Mendenhall has a 3.6 YPC average this year then, on 30 carries? So, according to even you, Dwyer is superior.

I mis read it honest mistake so apologize for that. however your arguement that dwyer is a better more consistent back than mendy because hes averaged 4.6 on 89 carries is absurd.

[Seven]

I mis read it honest mistake so apologize for that. however your arguement that dwyer is a better more consistent back than mendy because hes averaged 4.6 on 89 carries is absurd.

No problem, I understand.

As I told Chidi, I guess we can re-visit this thread after the game tomorrow. But If Dwyer plays better than Mendenhall again this week, as he did last, I don't see how we can keep making excuses for Rashard. And believe me, I've been a huge Mendenhall supporter over the years - so I hope he plays well.

[steeldawg]

Dear lord. I said "hopefully Rashard has a great week - but Dwyer won the battle - of the two - last game"

Are you able to comprehend that? Like I said, slow down and pay attention to what you're reading/writing. You don't have to run to the response box within seconds of reading what someone else wrote.



Oh I see, that must be why Mendenhall has a 3.6 YPC average this year then, on 30 carries? So, according to even you, Dwyer is superior.

And let us not forget mendy is a better back in pass protection and catching the ball better out of the backfield. Also mendy has proven he can score and can hit a homerun, dwyer has not.

[Psycho Ward 86]

And let us not forget mendy is a better back in pass protection and catching the ball better out of the backfield. Also mendy has proven he can score and can hit a homerun, dwyer has not.

mendenhall hardly ever hits this homerun everyone was crying for when our run game stunk up the joint

[Seven]

And let us not forget mendy is a better back in pass protection and catching the ball better out of the backfield. Also mendy has proven he can score and can hit a homerun, dwyer has not.

I agree with all of that, which is why I would prefer to see Mendenhall spell Dwyer, not the other way around. Keep him fresh so he can really come in and hit that homerun. Let Dwyer be the workhorse.

[steeldawg]

No problem, I understand.

As I told Chidi, I guess we can re-visit this thread after the game tomorrow. But If Dwyer plays better than Mendenhall again this week, as he did last, I don't see how we can keep making excuses for Rashard. And believe me, I've been a huge Mendenhall supporter over the years - so I hope he plays well.
it was mendenhalls first game back and they kept him limited, he doesnt have to have a huge game in order to prove hes the number 1 back on this team.

[Seven]

it was mendenhalls first game back and they kept him limited, he doesnt have to have a huge game in order to prove hes the number 1 back on this team.

No, but he has to outperform the third guy on the depth chart (Dwyer) at some point or he absolutely proves he is not the number one back. I'm not giving him a pass for last week, but it seems like most everyone else is. That's fine, but at some point if Dwyer continues to outproduce him you can't just say Mendenhall is the top dog simply because that's who you want it to be. We'll see what happens.

[steeldawg]

I agree with all of that, which is why I would prefer to see Mendenhall spell Dwyer, not the other way around. Keep him fresh so he can really come in and hit that homerun. Let Dwyer be the workhorse.

Mendenhall is to much of a threat to put behind dwyer. We rarely run the ball twice in a row, our offense is perfect for mendy

[Psycho Ward 86]

No, but he has to outperform the third guy on the depth chart (Dwyer) at some point or he absolutely proves he is not the number one back. I'm not giving him a pass for last week, but it seems like most everyone else is. That's fine, but at some point if Dwyer continues to outproduce him you can't just say Mendenhall is the top dog simply because that's who you want it to be. We'll see what happens.

i agree with you. i think a lot of people fail to notice that our rushing attack was never really rejuvenated by mendenhall's return, it was rejuvenated by dwyer getting carries and redman getting healthy. Even if mendenhall goes on to have a good year, i think he would normally be a likely cap casualty for next season (along with hampton and harrison) if it werent for our coaching staff respecting our "veterans" so much

[Seven]

Mendenhall is to much of a threat to put behind dwyer. We rarely run the ball twice in a row, our offense is perfect for mendy

Like I said, I agree he's a homerun threat - but so is Chris Rainey, and we aren't going to put him on the field simply because he can take it all the way. It's great to have guys who can do that, but you have to move the sticks with shorter gains, too - and that's what Dwyer does. He grinds out gains of 8, 15, 8, 4, 6 yards at a time on drives. You have to pick your spots with a guy who can break off the long one, because if they only get 3 yards on 1st & 2nd, and you have 3rd & 10 then there's about a 70% chance the drive is over.

[steeldawg]

No, but he has to outperform the third guy on the depth chart (Dwyer) at some point or he absolutely proves he is not the number one back. I'm not giving him a pass for last week, but it seems like most everyone else is. That's fine, but at some point if Dwyer continues to outproduce him you can't just say Mendenhall is the top dog simply because that's who you want it to be. We'll see what happens.

He wont out produce him because as mendy gets healthy dwyer wont be carrying the rock all that much. Tomlin said after mendy came back before running back by commitee doesnt work he wants his back to get into a rythym. Im not ready to replace a back like mendy with a guy who has 2 career good games and has never scored a td in three years.

[Seven]

i agree with you. i think a lot of people fail to notice that our rushing attack was never really rejuvenated by mendenhall's return, it was rejuvenated by dwyer getting carries and redman getting healthy. Even if mendenhall goes on to have a good year, i think he would normally be a likely cap casualty for next season (along with hampton and harrison) if it werent for our coaching staff respecting our "veterans" so much

It seems to me that a lot of people believe Mendenhall's talent has translated into a more impressive career than it truly has. He's a good runningback, as I said earlier, I think he's been an above average player. But he's not a LaDainian Tomlinson ala 2006 where he can't be replaced if a backup is outperforming him. I don't think fans quite realize what Dwyer has been doing this year. He's totally solidified our running game to a level it hasn't seen since 2009, maybe earlier. Anyone who says there is a back playing better on this roster right now just isn't paying attention. Mendenhall and Redman have their strengths, but Dwyer has been very impressive.

[steeldawg]

It seems to me that a lot of people believe Mendenhall's talent has translated into a more impressive career than it truly has. He's been a good runningback, as I said earlier, I think he's been an above average player. But he's not a LaDainian Tomlinson ala 2006 where he can't be replaced if a backup is outperforming him. I don't think fans quite realize what Dwyer has been doing this year. He's totally solidified our running game to a level it hasn't seen since 2009, maybe earlier.

What has dwyer done this year that is special???? Why would we want to get rid of an above average back to replace him with jonathan dwyer??? Lol we are ranked 18th in the league in rushing and 21st in the league in yds per carry and 23rd in tds , i dont know if i would call that solidifing our rushing attack.

[Seven]

What has dwyer done this year that is special???? Why would we want to get rid of an above average back to replace him with jonathan dwyer??? Lol we are ranked 18th in the league in rushing and 21st in the league in yds per carry and 23rd in tds , i dont know if i would call that solidifing our rushing attack.

He's not necessarily doing anything "special". He's just been a very efficient runningback. Which, again, is something we haven't seen since '09 when Mendenhall had his best season. I've heard Steelers fans bitch and moan about the lack of a running game for years now, and now that we finally have one it seems like no one cares. It's annoying.

[Seven]

Also, those stats you supplied are for the team. Not Dwyer. Dwyer is ranked 13th in yards per carry amongst all runningbacks. Therefore it's the other backs who have dragged our ranking in YPC down to 21st. Another argument you have made in favor of Dwyer.

[steeldawg]

He's not necessarily doing anything "special". He's just been a very efficient runningback. Which, again, is something we haven't seen since '09 when Mendenhall had his best season. I've heard Steelers fans bitch and moan about the lack of a running game for years now, and now that we finally have one it seems like no one cares. It's annoying.

But our running game hasnt been that good? dwyers games 9 carries 43 yds, 12 carries 28yds, 3 carries -1 yds, bye week, 0 carries 0 yds, 0 carries 0 yds, 17 carries 122yds, 17 carries 107yds,0 carries 0 yds, 19 carries 56 yds, 12 carries 55yds, also not a single touchdown. This not exactly consistency nor is it impressive or anything close to what mendy has done.

[steeldawg]

Also, those stats you supplied are for the team. Not Dwyer. Dwyer is ranked 13th in yards per carry amongst all runningbacks. Therefore it's the other backs who have dragged our ranking in YPC down to 21st. Another argument you have made in favor of Dwyer.

Hes ranked 15th in ypc, 28th in yds, 23rd in yds per game, 30th in attemps, and tied for last in tds because hes never scored. So really i dont see this spectacular impact that he has had?

[Seven]

But our running game hasnt been that good? dwyers games 9 carries 43 yds, 12 carries 28yds, 3 carries -1 yds, bye week, 0 carries 0 yds, 0 carries 0 yds, 17 carries 122yds, 17 carries 107yds,0 carries 0 yds, 19 carries 56 yds, 12 carries 55yds, also not a single touchdown. This not exactly consistency nor is it impressive or anything close to what mendy has done.

You don't look at the stats that matter. Dwyer has no control over the carries he is given, he can only produce when he's on the field. Stop trying to use insignificant stats to fabricate some sort of argument when you have absolutely none.

With runningbacks there is one stat you need to worry about between the 5's - YARDS PER CARRY. Nothing else matters.

Week 1: 4.8

Week 2: 2.3

Week 3: -.01

Week 4: BYE

Week 5: DNP

Week 6: DNP

Week 7: 7.2

Week 8: 6.3

Week 9: DNP

Week 10: 2.9

Week 11: 4.6

Since he began getting real playing time, Dwyer has a 5.25 yards per carry average. That's 4th best in the league over the course of those games.

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Hes ranked 15th in ypc, 28th in yds, 23rd in yds per game, 30th in attemps, and tied for last in tds because hes never scored. So really i dont see this spectacular impact that he has had?

1. Those aren't runningback stats.

2. The highlighted statistics don't matter anyway. Again, Dwyer can only play when he's on the field.

[steeldawg]

You don't look at the stats that matter. Dwyer has no control over the carries he is given, he can only produce when he's on the field. Stop trying to use insignificant stats to fabricate some sort of argument when you have absolutely none.

With runningbacks there is one stat you need to worry about between the 5's - YARDS PER CARRY. Nothing else matters.

Week 1: 4.8

Week 2: 2.3

Week 3: -.01

Week 4: BYE

Week 5: DNP

Week 6: DNP

Week 7: 7.2

Week 8: 6.3

Week 9: DNP

Week 10: 2.9

Week 11: 4.6

Since he began getting real playing time, Dwyer has a 5.25 yards per carry average. That's 4th best in the league over the course of those games.



Ya nothing else matters your right hes better than arian foster since arian is only averaging 4.0 yds a carry. The point is dwyer had a nice yd per carry avg for a few games he has done nothing else that what put him in the same categoery as mendy not even close. Mendy has 3 good seasons dwyer has 2 good games it ridiculous. Yes dwyer can control his carries because early on in the year him and redman where both running like crap and they were splitting carries.

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You don't look at the stats that matter. Dwyer has no control over the carries he is given, he can only produce when he's on the field. Stop trying to use insignificant stats to fabricate some sort of argument when you have absolutely none.

With runningbacks there is one stat you need to worry about between the 5's - YARDS PER CARRY. Nothing else matters.

Week 1: 4.8

Week 2: 2.3

Week 3: -.01

Week 4: BYE

Week 5: DNP

Week 6: DNP

Week 7: 7.2

Week 8: 6.3

Week 9: DNP

Week 10: 2.9

Week 11: 4.6

Since he began getting real playing time, Dwyer has a 5.25 yards per carry average. That's 4th best in the league over the course of those games.

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1. Those aren't runningback stats.

2. The highlighted statistics don't matter anyway. Again, Dwyer can only play when he's on the field.

Why are those not running back stats???? yds per game dont matter ???? attempts dont matter???? and TDs dont matter????

[Psycho Ward 86]

Hes ranked 15th in ypc, 28th in yds, 23rd in yds per game, 30th in attemps, and tied for last in tds because hes never scored. So really i dont see this spectacular impact that he has had?

hows mendenhall doing :)

[steeldawg]

hows mendenhall doing :)

well hes been hurt but if he comes back healthy with 5 games left he probably jumps dwyer in stats hes already leady ing in one category and thats tds he has one receiving td.

[Seven]

because early on in the year him and redman where both running like crap and they were splitting carries.

Why are those not running back stats????

Early in the year? You mean when he got to carry the ball once against Oakland? Oh that's right, it's his fault the coaching staff only played him on one snap in that game, according to you, right? In week one and two he carried the ball 9 for 43 and 12 for 28, respectively. For some perspective, Mendenhall had 12 for 33 against Baltimore. So yeah - maybe he was "running like crap".

They aren't runningback stats. They're rushing stats. I'm willing to bet you can find RGIII and Cam Newton somewhere above Dwyer in almost every category listed there. Again, you prove you don't understand statistics. Running out of the quarterback position is an entirely different ballgame and has nothing to do with the "debate" at hand.

[steeldawg]

Early in the year? You mean when he got to carry the ball once against Oakland? Oh that's right, it's his fault the coaching staff only played him on one snap in that game, according to you, right? In week one and two he carried the ball 9 for 43 and 12 for 28, respectively. For some perspective, Mendenhall had 12 for 33 against Baltimore. So yeah - maybe he was "running like crap".

They aren't runningback stats. They're rushing stats. I'm willing to bet you can find RGIII and Cam Newton somewhere above Dwyer in almost every category listed there. Again, you prove you don't understand statistics. Running out of the quarterback position is an entirely different ballgame and has nothing to do with the "debate" at hand.

Ok the only stat is changes is yards per carry he moves from 15th to 13th now whats the arguement. He still has not proven hes a better back the mendenhall, I really dont even understand how such an arguement can be made.

[Seven]

Ok the only stat is changes is yards per carry he moves from 15th to 13th now whats the arguement. He still has not proven hes a better back the mendenhall, I really dont even understand how such an arguement can be made.

12 for 55 for Dwyer, 11 for 33 Mendenhall. Both players have been recently injured, both players ran behind the same line, both players faced the same defense.

/argument

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And I've said over and over and over again if that changes in the coming weeks I will concede Mendenhall is playing better. But to say he's the better option right now is just flat out wrong and blatantly ignorant.

[steeldawg]

12 for 55 for Dwyer, 11 for 33 Mendenhall. Both players have been recently injured, both players played behind the same line, both players faced the same defense.

/argument

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And I've said over and over and over again if that changes in the coming weeks I will concede Mendenhall is playing better. But to say he's the btter option right now is just flat out wrong and blatantly ignorant.

One game??? really??? One game???? A healthy mendenhall is better than dwyer, if hes not healthy than of course you go with the healthy back, but thats not even what started the debate, it started because you said dwyer has done more this season thean mendy has ever done which is beyond ridiculous.

[Seven]

One game??? really??? One game???? A healthy mendenhall is better than dwyer, if hes not healthy than of course you go with the healthy back, but thats not even what started the debate, it started because you said dwyer has done more this season thean mendy has ever done which is beyond ridiculous.

Dwyer is absolutely running more consistently than Mendenhall ever has. You said yourself 34 is a homerun hitter.

And if a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?

[steeldawg]

Dwyer is absolutely running more consistently than Mendenhall ever has. You said yourself 34 is a homerun hitter.

No hes not, and ya hes a homerun hitter but hes a complete back with the ability to score from anywhere on the field. Mendenhall is a combination of power, speed, and agility. Mendenhall did for 3 seasons, dwyer did it for 2 games there is no comparison. Mendy is a better back period just because hes been hurt doesnt ersase what he has done or what he can do. Dwyer is not doing anything right now that mendy has not done.

[Seven]

No hes not, and ya hes a homerun hitter but hes a complete back with the ability to score from anywhere on the field. Mendenhall is a combination of power, speed, and agility. Mendenhall did for 3 seasons, dwyer did it for 2 games there is no comparison. Mendy is a better back period just because hes been hurt doesnt ersase what he has done or what he can do. Dwyer is not doing anything right now that mendy has not done.

If a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?


If a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?



If a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?



If a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?



If a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?

[Psycho Ward 86]

well hes been hurt but if he comes back healthy with 5 games left he probably jumps dwyer in stats hes already leady ing in one category and thats tds he has one receiving td.

you know who else is hurt? isaac redman with a high ankle sprain. And he still ran for 147 yards against the giants. if this is where you argue that a high ankle sprain is easier to run with than an achilles injury, then no. sit down. thats a club foot he's running with. and the most impressive thing is a lot of those yards from redman were tackle-busting runs.

[steeldawg]

If a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?


If a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?



If a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?



If a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?



If a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?

Thats it that is all you got???? dwyer rushed for 22 more yards against the ravens, huh lol i dont know why i even bother. Dwyer rushed for 55 yds whoa what a performance this guy is bigtime. Please, that arguement is such a joke.

[Seven]

you know who else is hurt? isaac redman with a high ankle sprain. And he still ran for 147 yards against the giants. if this is where you argue that a high ankle sprain is easier to run with than an achilles injury, then no. sit down. thats a club foot he's running with. and the most impressive thing is a lot of those yards from redman were tackle-busting runs.

Every back on this team has been injured at some point yet the only one who gets excuses made for him is Mendenhall.

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Thats it that is all you got???? dwyer rushed for 22 more yards against the ravens, huh lol i dont know why i even bother. Dwyer rushed for 55 yds whoa what a performance this guy is bigtime. Please, that arguement is such a joke.

You can't answer it.

If a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?

Mendenhall ran for 33. "whoa what a performance this guy is bigtime. Please, that arguement is such a joke."

[steeldawg]

you know who else is hurt? isaac redman with a high ankle sprain. And he still ran for 147 yards against the giants. if this is where you argue that a high ankle sprain is easier to run with than an achilles injury, then no. sit down. thats a club foot he's running with. and the most impressive thing is a lot of those yards from redman were tackle-busting runs.

I never said anything about redman but mendenhall is a better back than redman too.

[steeldawg]

Every back on this team has been injured at some point yet the only one who gets excuses made for him is Mendenhall.

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You can't answer it.

If a healthy Mendenhall is better than Dwyer why did he run for 22 fewer yards against the Ravens?

Why is mendy ahead of dwyer on the depth chart? Why was mendy a higher draft pick? Why does mendy have the contract? Why hasnt dwyer been able to get on the field till now? Why is mendy considered an above average back? Who cares about one game, when dwyer gets to 843 carries, 3474yds, 4.1yds per carry, and 29 tds then you can talk to me about one game and 22 yds.

[Count Steeler]

Why is mendy ahead of dwyer on the depth chart? Why was mendy a higher draft pick? Why does mendy have the contract? Why hasnt dwyer been able to get on the field till now? Why is mendy considered an above average back? Who cares about one game, when dwyer gets to 843 carries, 3474yds, 4.1yds per carry, and 29 tds then you can talk to me about one game and 22 yds.

Really? Superfluous questions. Why was Tom Brady picked in the 6th round and he is perhaps one of the greatest QBs ever?

As witnessed by other positions on this team, Tomlin is averse to playing the rookie over an incumbent. Also, in Dwyer's first year, he reported overweight and he still wears that as an albatross with the current coaching regime.

The pertinent question, at this stage, for the Steelers backfield, who is the more productive runner. The best evidence is the game most recently played. 2 backs were healthy, behind the same O Line, facing the same defense. I would even focus further in to 5 plays in the 3rd or 4th quarter. Dwyer went 2 carries for 8 yards. We converted 3rd down. Mendy came in and went 2 carries for 2 yards. Right NOW, Dwyer is the more effective back. Long term, we don't know.

Does Mendy deserve another shot? Absolutely. However, he remains the only back this year not to gain 100 yards in a starting role. If he starts off slow, or looks like he is playing hesitant, you have to put in the healthy Redman or Dwyer.

[Seven]

Why is mendy ahead of dwyer on the depth chart? Why was mendy a higher draft pick? Why does mendy have the contract? Why hasnt dwyer been able to get on the field till now? Why is mendy considered an above average back? Who cares about one game, when dwyer gets to 843 carries, 3474yds, 4.1yds per carry, and 29 tds then you can talk to me about one game and 22 yds.

This isn't worthy of a response.

[Steeldude]

Really? Superfluous questions. Why was Tom Brady picked in the 6th round and he is perhaps one of the greatest QBs ever?



I have no idea where he gets his logic.

[Seven]

The pertinent question, at this stage, for the Steelers backfield, who is the more productive runner. The best evidence is the game most recently played. 2 backs were healthy, behind the same O Line, facing the same defense. I would even focus further in to 5 plays in the 3rd or 4th quarter. Dwyer went 2 carries for 8 yards. We converted 3rd down. Mendy came in and went 2 carries for 2 yards. Right NOW, Dwyer is the more effective back. Long term, we don't know.

Thank you, I was starting to go insane. It's nice to see a reasonable poster visit this thread.

[steeldawg]

This isn't worthy of a response.

Because your arguement is ridiculous and thats all you can say too me.

[Chidi29]

You guys are having the wrong argument.

It's about looking at the body of work of the two backs. Not just a handful of plays/carries here and there.

It's about looking at the tape. Not the stats.

[Seven]

Because your arguement is ridiculous and thats all you can say too me.

Yep, you got me there.

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You guys are having the wrong argument.

It's about looking at the body of work of the two backs. Not just a handful of plays/carries here and there.

It's about looking at the tape. Not the stats.

The argument is who is a better player right now. If you think that's 34 based on the tape from last week you're as nuts as Steeldawg.

[steeldawg]

Oh i see but a great question is why did mendenhall have 22 yards less than dwyers 55 in the ravens game? It must be that jonathan dwyer is a better running back. Yes that logic makes sense, please you guys are insane.

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You guys are having the wrong argument.

It's about looking at the body of work of the two backs. Not just a handful of plays/carries here and there.

It's about looking at the tape. Not the stats.

Thank you finally someone who is not delusional, its about the body of work and not to mention the overal skill sets.

[Seven]

Oh i see but a great question is why did mendenhall have 22 yards less than dwyers 55 in the ravens game? It must be that jonathan dwyer is a better running back. Yes that logic makes sense, please you guys

Who played better last week? Just answer that for me.

[steeldawg]

Who played better last week? Just answer that for me.

dwyer had a better game who cares who played better the last 3 years?

[Chidi29]

Yep, you got me there.

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The argument is who is a better player right now. If you think that's 34 based on the tape from last week you're as nuts as Steeldawg.

Fair enough. You can disagree the other way. Just back up your claim for me.

[Seven]

dwyer had a better game who cares who played better the last 3 years?

So Dwyer ran better last week, but it's unreasonable to say he's playing better RIGHT NOW than Mendenhall?

[steeldawg]

So Dwyer ran better last week, but it's unreasonable to say he playing better RIGHT NOW than Mendenhall?

Thats not been your arguement dont try and change now you said dwyer has done more this year than mendenhall has ever done. mendy just came back off of injury and got 11 carries of course dwyer whos been playing ran a little better but you are acting like he was running wild out there he only had 55 yards.

[Seven]

Thats not been your arguement dont try and change now you said dwyer has done more this year than mendenhall has ever done. mendy just came back off of injury and got 11 carries of course dwyer whos been playing ran a little better but you are acting like he was running wild out there he only had 55 yards.

And Dwyer was coming off a quad injury, who cares. The injury argument is bullshit. Redman and Dwyer were both able to go so if Mendenhall wasn't healthy he wouldn't have played.

Dwyer got 55 yards on 12 carries. You're right, that's not a lot of yards. But it's a great average. That's the point of this thread. He was more effective therefore should have remained in the game.

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Fair enough. You can disagree the other way. Just back up your claim for me.

Which claim? That Dwyer is the better player right now? That he's running more consistently than Mendenhall? I don't know which claim I haven't backed up. I'm not the one basing my points off of subjective film study.

[steeldawg]

And Dwyer was coming off a quad injury, who cares. The injury argument is bullshit. Redman and Dwyer were both able to go so if Mendenhall wasn't healthy he wouldn't have played.

Dwyer got 55 yards on 12 carries. You're right, that's not a lot of yards. But it's a great average. That's the point of this thread. He was more effective therefore should have remained in the game.

Thats not the arguement that started this debate and you know it. The injury arguement is not bs not to say he wasnt healthy but hes coming off an achillies injury he hasnt played they are not going to give him the rock 25 times, tomlin even said it before the game, he said you would probably see all the running backs.

[Seven]

Thats not the arguement that started this debate and you know it. The injury arguement is not bs not to say he wasnt healthy but hes coming off an achillies injury he hasnt played they are not going to give him the rock 25 times, tomlin even said it before the game, he said you would probably see all the running backs.

How is that not the argument? Quote what I said that you originally had a problem with.

[steeldawg]

I think Mendenhall is a good player, but I can't agree that he won't be splitting carries. That's silly. Dwyer has performed better this year than 34 ever has.

I think the best thing the coaching staff could do would be to play Mendenhall on second down and passing downs. Sounds weird, I know - but I wouldn't play him on first downs because he takes too many losses. Let Dwyer run on first downs so you can get it into 2nd & short then bring Rashard in and give him that shot at a homerun. Then, hopefully, even if he takes a loss it's still 3rd & manageable.

This one right here," dwyer has performed better this year than mendenhall ever has". Totally ridiculous!!!!

[Chidi29]

And Dwyer was coming off a quad injury, who cares. The injury argument is bullshit. Redman and Dwyer were both able to go so if Mendenhall wasn't healthy he wouldn't have played.

Dwyer got 55 yards on 12 carries. You're right, that's not a lot of yards. But it's a great average. That's the point of this thread. He was more effective therefore should have remained in the game.

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Which claim? That Dwyer is the better player right now? That he's running more consistently than Mendenhall? I don't know which claim I haven't backed up. I'm not the one basing my points off of subjective film study.

You're basing it off of subjective numbers.

[Seven]

You're basing it off of subjective numbers.

Yards per carry is just about the least subjective stat you can find. Of course there are variables but at the end of the day it's a solid measurement of performance. You can't tell me Mendenhall ran more effectively than Dwyer last week and retain any kind of credibility.

[Chidi29]

Yards per carry is just about the least subjective stat you can find. Of course there are variables but at the end of the day it's a solid measurement of performance. You can't tell me Mendenhall ran more effectively than Dwyer last week and retain any kind of credibility.

I never said he did or he didn't. I said statistics is a bad way or backing up that claim.

[Seven]

This one right here," dwyer has performed better this year than mendenhall ever has". Totally ridiculous!!!!

Yep. Absolutely insane. There is no player in the world who has ever played a better game at runningback than Rashard Mendenhall. :cheer2:

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I never said he did or he didn't. I said statistics is a bad way or backing up that claim.

Yes, because simply saying I saw him play a superior game and expecting everyone to believe me is better.

I can tell you all about how Mendenhall danced behind the LOS with open options inside and out of the tackles on several occasions, but why do that when I can just point to the statline which represents it? I can sound like a snob and go on and on about how I watch all-22 for hours on end if I wanted, but I'd rather not.

[Count Steeler]

Again, this year, Dwyer has been effective in the 3 games he has been utilized. Gaining over 100 yards twice and looking more effective than Mendy last week against the Ravens. Mendy had a decent game against the Titans, but he looked hesitant against the Ravens.

If I were coaching, and all 3 backs were healthy this week, I would start Mendy and I would give him 8-10 carries in the first quarter. I would know at that point whether he was on for this game or not. I would have every confidence to switch to Dwyer or Redman. If this trend continued for 1 or 2 more games, Dwyer or Redman would become my starter. The last 3 years mean nothing. We have a decent O Line and 2 of the backs have rushed for over 100 yards. 1 of the backs has done it twice. Our premier back has not accomplished that this year. However, because he is our premier back, I give him another couple of starts to prove himself.

[X-Terminator]

Yards per carry is just about the least subjective stat you can find. Of course there are variables but at the end of the day it's a solid measurement of performance.

Not really. CJ2K is living proof that YPC is very much a subjective stat, because he can absolutely suck for most of the game, but then hit a 80-yard TD that boosts his YPC average. It was also the main argument used against Willie Parker during his time here. You cannot simply look at that stat alone and tell if a RB is effective or not.

[Chidi29]

Yep. Absolutely insane. There is no player in the world who has ever played a better game at runningback than Rashard Mendenhall. :cheer2:

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Yes, because simply saying I saw him play a superior game and expecting everyone to believe me is better.

I can tell you all about how Mendenhall danced behind the LOS with open options inside and out of the tackles on several occasions, but why do that when I can just point to the statline which represents it? I can sound like a snob and go on and on about how I watch all-22 for hours on end if I wanted, but I'd rather not.

No, the stats do not represent it. If someone hadn't watched the game, they'd have no idea if a guy was playing through an injury, a bad offensive line, garbage time dives, or what. The stats tell you little.

[Seven]

Well, both played pretty awful today - by tape review and by statistical analysis no doubt.

I'll take a look at the entire stable's performance after I watch this one again (gonna be hard). But I don't see how you can even give Mendenhall carries next week. He fumbled the ball on weak hits both times. Couldn't tell with the Redman drop, but at least Dwyer got hit when he lost the ball. The defender put his helmet on it. Regardless, the entire team turned the ball over today. I think the only back who played reasonably well was Rainey. I don't know if I can blame him all that much for his turnover, but it is what it is - he turned it over no excuses.

Interested to take a look at the stats. They're going to be poor. I think the team really missed Colon.

[Chidi29]

Turnovers are turnovers. Doesn't really matter how it happened (maybe with exception of injury like Rainey at the end).

No one played well today on offense. Mendenhall, Redman, Dwyer, anybody. No defending them.

[Seven]

Not really. CJ2K is living proof that YPC is very much a subjective stat, because he can absolutely suck for most of the game, but then hit a 80-yard TD that boosts his YPC average. It was also the main argument used against Willie Parker during his time here. You cannot simply look at that stat alone and tell if a RB is effective or not.

That's definitely true, but the beauty of YPC over other stats such as YPG, is that long runs are incorporated into the mix. So for a player like a Parker or Mendenhall, guys who are supposed to be home run hitters, they get credit for that. As long as you understand that and factor it into your assessment, you can get a pretty good picture of a guy's value.

[Chidi29]

I don't look at the stats. Or at least, very little, when looking at individual assessment. The tape tells me what happened.

[Seven]

Turnovers are turnovers. Doesn't really matter how it happened (maybe with exception of injury like Rainey at the end).

No one played well today on offense. Mendenhall, Redman, Dwyer, anybody. No defending them.


No one played well, but some of these guys still played better than others. Mendenhall's second fumble was absolutely inexcusable. And Dwyer's lack of effort on a couple of occasions was embarrassing. Just because they all played poorly doesn't mean you completely throw what you have to evaluate with out the window here. As much as I wish we could, we can't just pretend this didn't happen. The performances today are just as relevant as the performances against Cincy, Washington and New York.

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I don't look at the stats. Or at least, very little, when looking at individual assessment. The tape tells me what happened.

Yes, you've made that quite clear. Although I do find that sincerely interesting considering you have statistics listed in your interests on your profile.

[Chidi29]

No one played well, but some of these guys still played better than others. Mendenhall's second fumble was absolutely inexcusable. And Dwyer's lack of effort on a couple of occasions was embarrassing. Just because they all played poorly doesn't mean you completely throw what you have to evaluate with out the window here. As much as I wish we could, we can't just pretend this didn't happen. The performances today are just as relevant as the performances against Cincy, Washington and New York.

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Yes, you've made that quite clear. Although I do find that sincerely interesting considering you have statistics listed in your interests on your profile.

It's been awhile since I've edited my profile. And I do like stats and they can be useful for some team analysis (8 turnovers and 9 penalties = a loss, for example).

Plus, I took a stats class in high school. Liked it a lot more than Calculus.

[Seven]

It's been awhile since I've edited my profile. And I do like stats and they can be useful for some team analysis (8 turnovers and 9 penalties = a loss, for example).

Plus, I took a stats class in high school. Liked it a lot more than Calculus.

So they are useful for team analysis, where there are just as many variables as there are for individual stats, but when applied to individual players they are useless? :chuckle:

[Chidi29]

If you wanted to see how good a team's run defense was, you can't use individual assessment for that. And even then, I still prefer the tape. I just think stats can be a little more useful in team assessment.

[Dwinsgames]

If you wanted to see how good a team's run defense was, you can't use individual assessment for that. And even then, I still prefer the tape. I just think stats can be a little more useful in team assessment.


I prefer the look of Brick to block but if you want a basement you sure as hell need some block

[Seven]

I prefer the look of Brick to block but if you want a basement you sure as hell need some block

Great way to put it.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Honestly, it isnt hard to believe we struggled to run the ball so much against the browns. Of course with Ben out theyre going to focus in on the run, and give the browns credit for quietly accumulating a collection of pretty good D-linemen: Jabaal Sheard, Phil Taylor, Ahtya Rubin. Dick Jauron loves to revolve his defenses around a good front 4 (just mentioning those 3 because theyre names people might recognize).

[Seven]

Honestly, it isnt hard to believe we struggled to run the ball so much against the browns. Of course with Ben out theyre going to focus in on the run, and give the browns credit for quietly accumulating a collection of pretty good D-linemen: Jabaal Sheard, Phil Taylor, Ahtya Rubin. Dick Jauron loves to revolve his defenses around a good front 4 (just mentioning those 3 because theyre names people might recognize).

Yeah, without a quarterback who can get it downfield they really were able to focus in on the run game.

[Dwinsgames]

Honestly, it isnt hard to believe we struggled to run the ball so much against the browns. Of course with Ben out theyre going to focus in on the run, and give the browns credit for quietly accumulating a collection of pretty good D-linemen: Jabaal Sheard, Phil Taylor, Ahtya Rubin. Dick Jauron loves to revolve his defenses around a good front 4 (just mentioning those 3 because theyre names people might recognize).


yes with 8 in the box and at least 1 of them going close to 350 pounds just not much room at the LOS but that is no excuse for all the fumbles and no excuse to wait till the end of the game to get Miller involved behind those 8 in the box to try and loosen it up a bit ....

Had Miller been used early on it would have been hard for the Browns to commit 8 to the box , they would have had little choice but to drop one to coverage on Miller and that would have helped open some running lanes

[Craic]

Turnovers are turnovers. Doesn't really matter how it happened (maybe with exception of injury like Rainey at the end).

No one played well today on offense. Mendenhall, Redman, Dwyer, anybody. No defending them.

That's not true. It does matter. If a RB turns the ball over because three players hit him at the same time, with one putting their helmet right on the ball; and another RB fumbles because he's carrying the ball out from his body and a light swipe strips the ball, the first one is the result of good defensive play, the latter the result of bad ball control. The first is not really the RB's fault, unless he's fighting for yards when he should have gone down. Good football players will make good plays and sometimes, causing a turnover is one of those plays. The second is completely the RB's fault, and if it doesn't change quickly, should lead to him being benched or cut.

[Chidi29]

That's not true. It does matter. If a RB turns the ball over because three players hit him at the same time, with one putting their helmet right on the ball; and another RB fumbles because he's carrying the ball out from his body and a light swipe strips the ball, the first one is the result of good defensive play, the latter the result of bad ball control. The first is not really the RB's fault, unless he's fighting for yards when he should have gone down. Good football players will make good plays and sometimes, causing a turnover is one of those plays. The second is completely the RB's fault, and if it doesn't change quickly, should lead to him being benched or cut.

I really don't think Tomlin looks at it that way. The "excuses are tools of the incompetent" state of mind. The results are the same and are not desired.

[venom]

This is our perfect running back - he doesnt fumble !!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLmdHknLHMU&feature=player_embedded#!

[Seven]

That's not true. It does matter. If a RB turns the ball over because three players hit him at the same time, with one putting their helmet right on the ball; and another RB fumbles because he's carrying the ball out from his body and a light swipe strips the ball, the first one is the result of good defensive play, the latter the result of bad ball control. The first is not really the RB's fault, unless he's fighting for yards when he should have gone down. Good football players will make good plays and sometimes, causing a turnover is one of those plays. The second is completely the RB's fault, and if it doesn't change quickly, should lead to him being benched or cut.

Absolutely.

[Seven]

UPDATE: Jonathan Dwyer is now at the top of the Steelers depth chart. Isaac Redman is his backup and Mendy is third string.

http://www.steelers.com/team/depth-chart.html

[Chidi29]

Doesn't mean it'll stay that way forever.

[Dwinsgames]

Doesn't mean it'll stay that way forever.


it is a pretty clear message , Mendy sat on top of that depth chart when he was in street clothes and for him to be demoted not 1 but 2 spots when he is dressing is a telling tale in itself ...

only time will tell if it is long term or a punishment thing but make no mistake the message is clear ...

Personally I think the Steelers where going to make an attempt to resign him if they could to a middle value contract ( or why keep him at his current cap hit knowing he would be out several weeks prior to the season starting ) but now have decided others can do the job as well or better for far less money and have changed their direction at the position ...

could I be wrong ... sure

am I wrong ... doubt it

[Chidi29]

Yes, it is a punishment. Tomlin is trying to kick Mendenhall in the butt to wake him up. Two fumbles is not acceptable.

[X-Terminator]

it is a pretty clear message , Mendy sat on top of that depth chart when he was in street clothes and for him to be demoted not 1 but 2 spots when he is dressing is a telling tale in itself ...

only time will tell if it is long term or a punishment thing but make no mistake the message is clear ...

Personally I think the Steelers where going to make an attempt to resign him if they could to a middle value contract ( or why keep him at his current cap hit knowing he would be out several weeks prior to the season starting ) but now have decided others can do the job as well or better for far less money and have changed their direction at the position ...

could I be wrong ... sure

am I wrong ... doubt it

I think this pretty much seals Mendenhall's fate as well. Punishment or not, he will not be back next season.

[steelerdude15]

Making Jon the starter is actually a good thing for the game coming up. He was running extremely well against the Ravens. I hope he can do it again this Sunday.

[Count Steeler]

Yes, it is a punishment. Tomlin is trying to kick Mendenhall in the butt to wake him up. Two fumbles is not acceptable.

This has been his MO as a Steeler. He does not have the mindset of a winner. He gets lazy, needs motivation, needs his butt kicked. I guarantee that he will have a great game if he ever starts again. But it won't last.

I remember his first game back this year and most were overjoyed at his return. I kept insisting to wait 3 games before passing judgment on the state of Mendy. Well, now we know. Sure injuries may have played a part, but I don't think Tomlin gets pissed at a guy who is injured and is trying to give it his all.

Then again, this season is far from over, and I hope there are no more injuries, but if history has a pattern, Mendy has to be ready.

[zulater]

Yes, it is a punishment. Tomlin is trying to kick Mendenhall in the butt to wake him up. Two fumbles is not acceptable.

Actually I think it's just a late acknowledgement that more isn't always better. The Steelers best games have come when they commited the majority of carries to one back. The o-lineman have even stated that it's easiar to block for one back. So as Dwyer has been the most consistent back this season, and he's the healthiest it makes sense to make him the primary back.

[86WARD]

hmmmmm...wonder why he didn't promote Redman...lol.

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Actually I think it's just a late acknowledgement that more isn't always better. The Steelers best games have come when they commited the majority of carries to one back. The o-lineman have even stated that it's easiar to block for one back. So as Dwyer has been the most consistent back this season, and he's the healthiest it makes sense to make him the primary back.

Exact reason...plus he's better than Redman...lol.

[VTsteel]

I really like the move because I think Dwyer has only begun to make his mark. He puts in the extra effort in his runs and catches real well out of the backfield.

Here's to hoping for a tremendous effort on Sunday!

[Seven]

Doesn't mean it'll stay that way forever.

Of course not. The back who is playing best deserves to be in there, no matter who it is. That's why Dwyer is starting. He's the superior player right now as I've stated for a few weeks now. But I'm not going to sit here three weeks from now and cheerlead Dwyer on if he's not performing like you did with Mendenhall.

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Actually I think it's just a late acknowledgement that more isn't always better. The Steelers best games have come when they commited the majority of carries to one back. The o-lineman have even stated that it's easiar to block for one back. So as Dwyer has been the most consistent back this season, and he's the healthiest it makes sense to make him the primary back.

I sure hope you're right. Tomlin still said at the presser that he wants to play the other guys situationally. Hopefully he lets one guy (Dwyer) get rolling and leaves him in.

[Seven]

Why is mendy ahead of dwyer on the depth chart?

So, now that Dwyer is the number one back on the depth chart, I guess I can say he's better simply due to the fact that he's TWO spots ahead of Mendenhall, according to your reasoning?

I guess I could do that, but oh wait, I had a real argument to begin with. So I don't need to.

[Austin87]

Well deserved by Dwyer. Tomlin should do this more often, to keep players from getting complacent. There are a couple of starters on the defense that shouldn't be starting. McLendon and Heyward should be starting ahead of Hamp and Hood.

[Seven]

I guess Steeldawg isn't going to come back here.

[GBMelBlount]

Well deserved by Dwyer. Tomlin should do this more often, to keep players from getting complacent. There are a couple of starters on the defense that shouldn't be starting. McLendon and Heyward should be starting ahead of Hamp and Hood.

I agree with every word you said here.

Sometimes even professional athletes become complacent without realizing it and sometimes coaches have too much loyalty imo.

However coaches that make changes every week run the risk of losing the respect and loyalty of their players as well.

I guess knowing when to do these things is part of what being a good coach is all about.

[Seven]

Well deserved by Dwyer. Tomlin should do this more often, to keep players from getting complacent. There are a couple of starters on the defense that shouldn't be starting. McLendon and Heyward should be starting ahead of Hamp and Hood.

I agree in presmise, but I think Hampton has been playing well. And it seems to me Heyward has been getting more PT, too.

[Dwinsgames]

I agree in presmise, but I think Hampton has been playing well. And it seems to me Heyward has been getting more PT, too.


Heyward has got on the field more due to the fact that Ziggy strained his back and is not getting as many snaps because of it ... Heyward is playing at a higher level than Ziggy IMO and deserves to start regardless of the injury report status on Hood .... Hopefully that is how it happens , Ziggy to me ( I could be wrong ) always play better when he is being pushed for playing time they need to keep pushing him ... he is one that always seems to need to be motivated to produce

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[steeldawg]

I guess Steeldawg isn't going to come back here.

Oh im still here, and i still dont agree with the move. Dwyer may show a flash here and a flash there, but overall hes a poor back. Hes slow he doesnt cut very well, hes not great in pass protection. Does he break some tackles? sure but he hasnt played a full season, let him try running people over for an entire year and we will see how long that career lasts, two examples Marion Barber ,Brandon Jacobs. I think if you put mendy in and feed him the rock, let him get into a flow you will see who is the superior talent at running back.

[Dwinsgames]

Oh im still here, and i still dont agree with the move. Dwyer may show a flash here and a flash there, but overall hes a poor back. Hes slow he doesnt cut very well, hes not great in pass protection. Does he break some tackles? sure but he hasnt played a full season, let him try running people over for an entire year and we will see how long that career lasts, two examples Marion Barber ,Brandon Jacobs. I think if you put mendy in and feed him the rock, let him get into a flow you will see who is the superior talent at running back.


did we not already do that for a few years ?
why be dependent on a guy who you probably won't have come next year at this stage of the game anyways when the guy you listed as the starter has thus far consistently out performed him ( in the now / present )

[steeldawg]

did we not already do that for a few years ?
why be dependent on a guy who you probably won't have come next year at this stage of the game anyways when the guy you listed as the starter has thus far consistently out performed him ( in the now / present )

we did and mendy ran very well even in an offense that was pass first. Its true mandy may be gone next year but i like to see our best players on the field. Im not that sold on dwyer, i would actually even feel better with redman in there. I do think whoever tomlin uses needs to get the snaps in practice and he needs to stick with that guy.

[Dwinsgames]

Its true mandy may be gone next year but i like to see our best players on the field.


see he is so soft he is starting to even make you believe he is a she ....... " MANDY "

http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/bigpimpin.gif http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Seven]

see he is so soft he is starting to even make you believe he is a she ....... " MANDY "

http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/bigpimpin.gif http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/wink.gif

I'm actually laughing out loud. :rofl:

[43Hitman]

we did and mendy ran very well even in an offense that was pass first. Its true mandy may be gone next year but i like to see our best players on the field. Im not that sold on dwyer, i would actually even feel better with redman in there. I do think whoever tomlin uses needs to get the snaps in practice and he needs to stick with that guy.

I know you like to be one of the contrarians of the board, but you really can't be serious with this. Dwyer has clearly outplayed everyone one on this roster at his position. Its not even close.

[Seven]

I know you like to be one of the contrarians of the board, but you really can't be serious with this. Dwyer has clearly outplayed everyone one on this roster at his position. Its not even close.

The argument against him has basically been that Mendenhall looks more the part, regardless of the fact that heh asn't played well.

[43Hitman]

The argument against him has basically been that Mendenhall looks more the part, regardless of the fact that heh asn't played well.

Kendrell Bell looked the part too, and we saw where that got us. lol Personally I'm glad Dwyer has overtaken the role of primary back, he has more heart. He just plain wants it more. Mendy has gone complacent and has been inconsistent for three years now.

[Dwinsgames]

Dwyer also might be the most humble guy on the entire roster ( if he isn't he is darn close ) many of these players could take a lessen of humility from him , far to many chest pounders on this team of late

[Steeldude]

Oh im still here, and i still dont agree with the move. Dwyer may show a flash here and a flash there, but overall hes a poor back. Hes slow he doesnt cut very well, hes not great in pass protection. Does he break some tackles? sure but he hasnt played a full season, let him try running people over for an entire year and we will see how long that career lasts, two examples Marion Barber ,Brandon Jacobs. I think if you put mendy in and feed him the rock, let him get into a flow you will see who is the superior talent at running back.

Since when did Mendenhall run people over. In the beginning of his NFL career is was visibly noticeable that he did not like contact.


but overall hes a poor back. Hes slow he doesnt cut very well, hes not great in pass protection

Neither was Bettis.


let him get into a flow you will see who is the superior talent at running back.

It's been 5 years. How much flow does he need? Now he is 3rd string.

You say Dwyer has not played an entire season because he hasn't earned it. So how did Mendenhall earn it when he came into the NFL? Draft status? Why doesn't Dwyer deserve the same chance as Mendenhall? Mendenhall lasted 4 games in his first season. So if Dwyer lasts more than 4 games he has proven he earned it, right?

[steeldawg]

Since when did Mendenhall run people over. In the beginning of his NFL career is was visibly noticeable that he did not like contact.



Neither was Bettis.



It's been 5 years. How much flow does he need? Now he is 3rd string.

You say Dwyer has not played an entire season because he hasn't earned it. So how did Mendenhall earn it when he came into the NFL? Draft status? Why doesn't Dwyer deserve the same chance as Mendenhall? Mendenhall lasted 4 games in his first season. So if Dwyer lasts more than 4 games he has proven he earned it, right?

Mendy doesnt run people over, thats dwyers style and those backs dont last anymore in the nfl. As far as bettis ya not great in pass protection but he ran pretty well had great quickness and vision also he knew how to score. mendenhall was running the ball very well he rushed for over 1100yds in a superbowl season, mendenhall is a better back than dwyer.

[Steeldude]

Mendy doesnt run people over, thats dwyers style and those backs dont last anymore in the nfl. As far as bettis ya not great in pass protection but he ran pretty well had great quickness and vision also he knew how to score. mendenhall was running the ball very well he rushed for over 1100yds in a superbowl season, mendenhall is a better back than dwyer.

How long did Mendenhall last when he was trying to avoid contact? 4 games wasn't it?

Bettis was nimble for his size, but he is not a nimble RB


rushed for over 1100yds

1200 yards means you rushed for 75 yards per game. That's not so impressive.



You say Dwyer has not played an entire season because he hasn't earned it. So how did Mendenhall earn it when he came into the NFL? Draft status? Why doesn't Dwyer deserve the same chance as Mendenhall? Mendenhall lasted 4 games in his first season. So if Dwyer lasts more than 4 games he has proven he earned it, right?

It's been 5 years. How much flow does he need?

You see how you once again ran from the question you claim to always answer?

[Dwinsgames]

past accomplishments are not a good indicator of future results .. mendy runs with cation and many times tries to avoid contact and is half way to the ground by the time the defender closes in on him ( shying away from contact ) this league is about getting more yards than the line opens up for you that is where your worth comes into play ...

if it where about just getting the yards that are there and falling down you and I could play RB in the NFL ... it is about taking what is there and then trying to get a couple more Mendy has never been one to force the issue in that regard ....

as a side note someone better tell Steven Jackson that those kind of backs do not last in this league , I think he would strongly disagree with that assessment as would Turner , Tate, Morris , Michael Bush , McGahee among others

[GBMelBlount]

The argument against him has basically been that Mendenhall looks more the part, regardless of the fact that heh asn't played well.

Oh...He "looks the part" alright...

One of the few times he hasn't stopped after initial contact...


http://youtu.be/_gVFT3VVwa0

[Dwinsgames]

Oh...He "looks the part" alright...

One of the few times he hasn't stopped after initial contact...


http://youtu.be/_gVFT3VVwa0


yea I remember that was almost afraid to continue watching for fear of what he might do next ...................

[GBMelBlount]

yea I remember that was almost afraid to continue watching for fear of what he might do next ...................

If only Mendy could find the holes in the defense that easily.

[Dwinsgames]

makes me wonder if he nickname is dog , seems like he goes around humping anything in sight

[Seven]

makes me wonder if he nickname is dog , seems like he goes around humping anything in sight

Did we ever get any sort of explanation as to why he humped Ben?

[Dwinsgames]

Did we ever get any sort of explanation as to why he humped Ben?

never to my knowledge , and to be honest I am not sure the question was ever asked by the media but has been asked on forums like this many times over ....

when you think about it , it would be a very tough question to ask a man with a camera in his face inside the locker room ..... ( esp if he is only draped with a towel )


How would that conversation go anyways like this perhaps ??


Bouchette , so Rashard what made you do what you did to Ben on the 3rd play of the 4th drive in the second half

Rashard , not sure what your talking about Ed ..

Bouchette you know the play where you , you umm had your hips moving

Rashard hip flexibility is part of the game not sure what particular play you are referencing

Bouchette let me put it this way then , the play where you where covering up Ben on the ground

Rashard I do not recall the play your talking about

Bouchette you do not recall humping him like a dog in heat even after team mates where over top you telling you to get up

Rashard I do not like where your going with this Ed , sounds like your calling me gay or something

Bouchette Well Rashard your actions have to make people wonder , you did dry hump him for an extended period of time well after the play was over and your team mates where over you seemingly telling you to stop

Rashard .......( pause) well Ed I wasn't done yet , I mean ..... I got to go Coach is calling me into his office and oh Ed not a word about this talk in print or I will have you're journalist badge taken away




http://draftsteel.com/ff/images/smilies/aha.gif

[tube517]

Did we ever get any sort of explanation as to why he humped Ben?

Conversation in that picture:

Heath: WTF you doing Rashard?
Ben: I can't breathe
Redman: Get me the F out of here
Ramon: Get up Redman. Need help?
Kemo: Let me jump on the pile late so we get a flag.
Flozell: I don't think I want to look.
Mendy: My hips are in great shape, Big Ben.

[86WARD]

Mendenhall inactive today.

[Dwinsgames]

Mendenhall inactive today.


good

[Steeldude]

Oh...He "looks the part" alright...

One of the few times he hasn't stopped after initial contact...


http://youtu.be/_gVFT3VVwa0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu5JdmsLWVk

[Seven]

Dwyer and Redman both ran well last night. Mendenhall is as good as done.