Goat horns.

[zulater]

Mike Tomlin and Todd Haley for starting and staying with Byron Leftwich. We gave one away tonight over coaching obstinance.

[fansince'76]

Wallace. Nice fumble, dude. On a night we knew points would be at a premium, he gives them a free FG.

[Edman]

Mike Wallace.

Special Teams.

Leftwich for being completely useless.

[Count Steeler]

STs, Wallace.

[Devilsdancefloor]

ST for the TD and haley for going away from dwyer, plus mendy who danced his way through the line instead of putting his shoulder down once again dwyer should be the starter period he gives maximum effort everytime he touchs the ball and has that lean for a extra half yard

[steeldawg]

Sts coaching staff and wallace not just the fumble but i feel like he should of gotten his feet down on that pass

[salamander]

Definitely the special teams. If it wasn't for that punt return for a TD, we win this game.

[X-Terminator]

I thought Leftwich would have played a little better than he did, but I was wrong. I don't want Batch starting either. So either way, until and unless Ben comes back, they are screwed.

[tube517]

Wallace and Special Teams.

[SteelerFanInStl]

ST, not only for the TD return but for the constant poor field position for us and good field position for them. Wallace for his fumble and his inability to get his feet in on the TD pass. Tomlin for not getting Lefty out of the game when he was obviously hurt and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his passes.

[zulater]

Sts coaching staff and wallace not just the fumble but i feel like he should of gotten his feet down on that pass

QFT.

- - - Updated - - -


I thought Leftwich would have played a little better than he did, but I was wrong. I don't want Batch starting either. So either way, until and unless Ben comes back, they are screwed.

Yeah except for that simple fact you want to ignore that Charlie Batch wins games for this team! I don't know what axe you have to grind against Charlie, but the guy knows this team and delivers wins. And wins are what we need.

[steeldawg]

what sucks is the first play was a big PI penalty to wallace setting up the first td, and then we couldnt throw deep to him the rest of the game because leftwhich was to hurt to throw it over 30 yds

[SteelMayhem72]

I thought Leftwich would have played a little better than he did, but I was wrong. I don't want Batch starting either. So either way, until and unless Ben comes back, they are screwed. Amen...said this all week...batch is a better option but neither are that good...we need a qb cause like ive said Ben is gonna be out a while and maybe the rest of the season...he was still hurting on the sidelines tonight! Basically without Ben we dont stand much of a chance...reality check!!!

[steeldawg]

At the end there it looked like gilreath was wide open on the deep ball lefty attempted to throw

[SteelMayhem72]

I do say start Batch next week for 2 simple reasons...hes smarter and gets rid of the ball quicker!

[steelreserve]

Seriously, no one's said Leftwich as the goat yet? I know he hadn't played in a long time, but ... dude. You're an NFL quarterback. You've got to do better than that. I don't care if it was your first game in a year, or 3 years, or 5 years, or the first game you ever played in the league, you've got to do better. Absolutely pitiful performance with no excuse whatsoever.

[Craic]

Mike Tomlin and Todd Haley for starting and staying with Byron Leftwich. We gave one away tonight over coaching obstinance.

Not even close.

Lefty = 10 offensive points.

Defense = 6 points against them.

We win the game if it wasn't for special teams.

So - Horns, Special teams.

Honorable mention - Mendenhall. GO OUT OF BOUNDS YOU IDIOT.

[zulater]

extra demerits to the coaching staff for going away from the Dwyer when he was obviously the hot back.

- - - Updated - - -


I do say start Batch next week for 2 simple reasons...hes smarter and gets rid of the ball quicker!

And he doesn't have sore ribs like Leftwich obviously (to everyone but the coaching staff) does!

[86WARD]

Mike Tomlin and Todd Haley for starting and staying with Byron Leftwich. We gave one away tonight over coaching obstinance.

Agree with the coaching. Raise you Special Teams, Wallace and pretty much the whole receiving corps. Can't put Leftwich in there...he stinks, he shouldn't be on this team, he is what he is and that's not his fault.

[Steelermania]

Third and a short 2 at the 3, and Haley calls a pass play. This after Dwyer just ran for 8 yards.

[Seven]

Wallace. ALWAYS disappears when it matters.

Hate to do it, but Haley. Has called the games way too cute two weeks in a row.

[Steelermania]

Agree with the coaching. Raise you Special Teams, Wallace and pretty much the whole receiving corps. Can't put Leftwich in there...he stinks, he shouldn't be on this team, he is what he is and that's not his fault.

What is it with the Steelers and special teams. This has been an ongoing problem since the 1990's.

[tube517]

Not even close.

Lefty = 10 offensive points.

Defense = 6 points against them.

We win the game if it wasn't for special teams.

So - Horns, Special teams.

Honorable mention - Mendenhall. GO OUT OF BOUNDS YOU IDIOT.

Mendy's been on the sideline all year but then doesn't know how to get there. :noidea:

[X-Terminator]

Yeah except for that simple fact you want to ignore that Charlie Batch wins games for this team! I don't know what axe you have to grind against Charlie, but the guy knows this team and delivers wins. And wins are what we need.

You can stop trying to convince me any time now. I'm NOT...NOT...changing my mind about Batch. The end.

[steelreserve]

Mendy's been on the sideline all year but then doesn't know how to get there. :noidea:

LOL :sofunny:

[Craic]

Yeah except for that simple fact you want to ignore that Charlie Batch wins games for this team! I don't know what axe you have to grind against Charlie, but the guy knows this team and delivers wins. And wins are what we need.

No, he doesn't. Not in the last five years.

Last year - 1 start. The Steelers won, but that was as much in spite of Batch as because of him. Zero TD's and an interception. He had one long throw of 46 yards, and the rest of the game, he only threw for 162 yards. Oh, by the way, this was against the Rams! Nice. We won that game because our run game put up 3 touchdowns - rushing for 169 yards (Rashard had 116 that game).

2010: 2 starts. We lost against the Ravens with Batch as Quarterback. He threw for 141 yards, 0 TD's, and an INT. Game before that, he had a good win, but if you remember, that was the game he threw an INT, and it bounced off the guys hands, into Wallace's for a TD. Batch threw 2 TD's outside of that one, so it was a decent game.

2007: 1 start, lost.

So, are you seriously trying to say that one quality win in 2010 means that Batch "wins games for this team"? No way, no how. Batch should be put out to pasture. After this game, Lefty probably should as well. If you're thinking of Batch as an upgrade, you're sorely mistaking.

[zulater]

You can stop trying to convince me any time now. I'm NOT...NOT...changing my mind about Batch. The end.

So what if he comes in and wins the game next week? Just like he's done 4 out of the last 5 times the Steelers asked him to take the reins.

"Oh but that was ages ago." Nope. 3-1 in 2010, 1-0 last year. And guess what. I watched all the preseason games. Charlie looked the same as ever. Ugly but oddly effective.

And speaking of ages ago, that's how long it's been since Leftwich won an NFL game. 2006 to be exact. Half our team was in college the last time Leftwich won a game of consequence and you want him over Batch?!!

Really?

:frusty:

[86WARD]

What is it with the Steelers and special teams. This has been an ongoing problem since the 1990's.

The finally have the return men on that side of the ball, but the penalties are now killing them...it's a breath of fresh air than having Gary Russell and Najeh Davenport back there returning kicks and a slow Antwan Randle El returning punts. But the tackling and coverage has been consistently bad...

[X-Terminator]

No, he doesn't. Not in the last five years.

Last year - 1 start. The Steelers won, but that was as much in spite of Batch as because of him. Zero TD's and an interception. He had one long throw of 46 yards, and the rest of the game, he only threw for 162 yards. Oh, by the way, this was against the Rams! Nice. We won that game because our run game put up 3 touchdowns - rushing for 169 yards (Rashard had 116 that game).

2010: 2 starts. We lost against the Ravens with Batch as Quarterback. He threw for 141 yards, 0 TD's, and an INT. Game before that, he had a good win, but if you remember, that was the game he threw an INT, and it bounced off the guys hands, into Wallace's for a TD. Batch threw 2 TD's outside of that one, so it was a decent game.

2007: 1 start, lost.

So, are you seriously trying to say that one quality win in 2010 means that Batch "wins games for this team"? No way, no how. Batch should be put out to pasture. After this game, Lefty probably should as well. If you're thinking of Batch as an upgrade, you're sorely mistaking.

Thanks for making my point for me, Preacher. What you said is EXACTLY why Batch is better off standing on the sideline with his jacket on. He sucks, plain and simple, and is no better than Leftwich.

[zulater]

No, he doesn't. Not in the last five years.

Last year - 1 start. The Steelers won, but that was as much in spite of Batch as because of him. Zero TD's and an interception. He had one long throw of 46 yards, and the rest of the game, he only threw for 162 yards. Oh, by the way, this was against the Rams! Nice. We won that game because our run game put up 3 touchdowns - rushing for 169 yards (Rashard had 116 that game).

2010: 2 starts. We lost against the Ravens with Batch as Quarterback. He threw for 141 yards, 0 TD's, and an INT. Game before that, he had a good win, but if you remember, that was the game he threw an INT, and it bounced off the guys hands, into Wallace's for a TD. Batch threw 2 TD's outside of that one, so it was a decent game.

2007: 1 start, lost.

So, are you seriously trying to say that one quality win in 2010 means that Batch "wins games for this team"? No way, no how. Batch should be put out to pasture. After this game, Lefty probably should as well. If you're thinking of Batch as an upgrade, you're sorely mistaking.

The Ravens are the 26th ranked defense coming into tonights game. You have any idea where the Rams ranked in defense last year. 26th. Batch put up 27 fucking points. Fuck style points. He might give us a chance. Leftiwch clearly doesn't.

[stillers4me]

Didn't Charlie win a game last year while Ben was nursing his size 14 foot???

[X-Terminator]

So what if he comes in and wins the game next week? Just like he's done 4 out of the last 5 times the Steelers asked him to take the reins.

"Oh but that was ages ago." Nope. 3-1 in 2010, 1-0 last year. And guess what. I watched all the preseason games. Charlie looked the same as ever. Ugly but oddly effective.

And speaking of ages ago, that's how long it's been since Leftwich won an NFL game. 2006 to be exact. Half our team was in college the last time Leftwich won a game of consequence and you want him over Batch?!!

Really?

:frusty:

He didn't do shit in any of those games to earn those wins. Give me a break. He is a terrible QB, and you want him starting? Really???

[Craic]

So what if he comes in and wins the game next week? Just like he's done 4 out of the last 5 times the Steelers asked him to take the reins.

"Oh but that was ages ago." Nope. 3-1 in 2010, 1-0 last year. And guess what. I watched all the preseason games. Charlie looked the same as ever. Ugly but oddly effective.

And speaking of ages ago, that's how long it's been since Leftwich won an NFL game. 2006 to be exact. Half our team was in college the last time Leftwich won a game of consequence and you want him over Batch?!!

Really?

:frusty:

Um, no. Batch only started 2 games in 2010 - so how can he be 3-1? Also, he split those games, going 1-1. May I suggest you go back and look stats. The game he came in for Dixon, he went 5-11 for 25 yards. Are you REALLY counting that in his record?

[zulater]

Didn't Charlie win a game last year while Ben was nursing his size 14 foot???

Yeah but that 27-0 win against the 26th ranked defense Ram defense ( same as Baltimore this year) didn't count because Charlie didn't look pretty enough.

- - - Updated - - -


Um, no. Batch only started 2 games in 2010 - so how can he be 3-1? Also, he split those games, going 1-1. May I suggest you go back and look stats. The game he came in for Dixon, he went 5-11 for 25 yards. Are you REALLY counting that in his record?

He didn't start one game that Dixon did, but he won the game for the Steelers all the same. Screw your stats, for whatever reason the team performd when Charlie's in there.

[Craic]

The Ravens are the 26th ranked defense coming into tonights game. You have any idea where the Rams ranked in defense last year. 26th. Batch put up 27 fucking points. Fuck style points. He might give us a chance. Leftiwch clearly doesn't.

Nope. Batch put up 0 points. Mendenhall had a heck of a game that game - and our field goal kicker hit a 49 yard field-goal because Batch couldn't move the team any closer to the endzone. Trumpet the guy all you want, except for one game against Tampa - he's been horrible in the last five years.

[zulater]

He didn't do shit in any of those games to earn those wins. Give me a break. He is a terrible QB, and you want him starting? Really???

Yeah I do. Because he's not Byron Leftwich, and right now that in and of itself makes him a better option.

- - - Updated - - -


Nope. Batch put up 0 points. Mendenhall had a heck of a game that game - and our field goal kicker hit a 49 yard field-goal because Batch couldn't move the team any closer to the endzone. Trumpet the guy all you want, except for one game against Tampa - he's been horrible in the last five years.

Unlike Leftwich who's just been killing it.

[X-Terminator]

Yeah I do. Because he's not Byron Leftwich, and right now that in and of itself makes him a better option.

OK. I hope you get your wish, so you can see for yourself how bad he is. Maybe then you'll change your tune.

[Craic]

He didn't start one game that Dixon did, but he won the game for the Steelers all the same. Screw your stats, for whatever reason the team performd when Charlie's in there.

The team would have performed well whoever was in there that game, because it had nothing to do with Batch. It had to do with the running game. You say "screw stats." Okay, so screw the stats that say "Leftwich hasn't won a game in six years." Oh wait, no, not that one.

You can't cherry-pick stats. Either the QB has played well, or he hasn't. Neither QB has played well over the last few years. Your hope in Batch is completely misplaced.

- - - Updated - - -


Unlike Leftwich who's just been killing it.

Leftwich actually scored a TD - which would have been enough to win had special teams come through. Killing it? No, but at least he put points on the board, unlike Batch has since the first game in 2010.

Look, I had hopes for Lefty, but his skills have diminished considerably. He's now at Batches level. So no matter who you put in, this is what you're going to get. I was as surprised as everyone else when Johnson didn't stay on the team this year. I thought there was no way Batch would beat him out.

[zulater]

The team would have performed well whoever was in there that game, because it had nothing to do with Batch. It had to do with the running game. You say "screw stats." Okay, so screw the stats that say "Leftwich hasn't won a game in six years." Oh wait, no, not that one.

You can't cherry-pick stats. Either the QB has played well, or he hasn't. Neither QB has played well over the last few years. Your hope in Batch is completely misplaced.

Except for the fact that if he plays the Steelers win. And if Leftwich does the Steelers have no chance.

The defense couldn't have played any better. We were home. Yeah I know the special teams screwed the pooch, but really, 10 fucking points against the league's 26th ranked defense? Even with the punt return we only had to score 14 points!

When is our opportunity ever going to be greater to win a game without Ben?

We will not beat Cleveland in their stadium with Byron Leftwich. Mark it down.

We would beat them with Batch, with one of his typically ugly games. Mark that down as well. Because it may be too late. But when they finally give the ball to ugly old Charlie the team will start winning again "despite him. Just hope that we have a season to save at that point.

[vindrow]

Wallace, ST, and Tomlin

[steelreserve]

He didn't do shit in any of those games to earn those wins. Give me a break. He is a terrible QB, and you want him starting? Really???

Funny thing is, we could've won tonight with a QB who didn't do shit to earn a win. As long as he didn't do everything to outright blow the game.

No, I don't think Batch is a very good QB. I don't WANT him starting. The situation doesn't give me much choice, though. After Leftwich's debacle, it's like trying to convince me I should vote for Obama. I'm not crazy about the other guy, but I know the guy who's in there now is just so beyond terrible that getting him the fuck out of there trumps all else. I don't care whether they start Batch or bail Ryan Leaf out of jail, THAT shit has got to stop.

[bayz101]

We lost by a field goal, Mike Wallace GAVE them a field goal. End of story.

[zulater]

If Batch starts and wins a game anyone who dare calls him "Botch" should be ashamed of themselves.

- - - Updated - - -

If Batch starts and wins a game anyone who dare calls him "Botch" should be ashamed of themselves.

[SteelMayhem72]

Im going with Batch...hes a better option...face it thats all we have left...no Ben pretty much is no win! Look at how well the D played tonight and still couldnt win...a decent game manager Qb and we win. So if Ben is out for a long period of time we will not make the playoffs!

[zulater]

We lost by a field goal, Mike Wallace GAVE them a field goal. End of story.

Also helped set up our only TD with a PI call that was all about his speed.

[SteelMayhem72]

Except for the fact that if he plays the Steelers win. And if Leftwich does the Steelers have no chance.

The defense couldn't have played any better. We were home. Yeah I know the special teams screwed the pooch, but really, 10 fucking points against the league's 26th ranked defense? Even with the punt return we only had to score 14 points!

When is our opportunity ever going to be greater to win a game without Ben? I Agree!!!

We will not beat Cleveland in their stadium with Byron Leftwich. Mark it down.

We would beat them with Batch, with one of his typically ugly games. Mark that down as well. Because it may be too late. But when they finally give the ball to ugly old Charlie the team will start winning again "despite him. Just hope that we have a season to save at that point. I agree

[X-Terminator]

If Batch starts and wins a game anyone who dare calls him "Botch" should be ashamed of themselves.


If he starts, plays like shit and the team still wins, I will still call him "Botch," because that's what he does. Charlie's a terrific human being, but a horrible QB.

[Craic]

If Batch starts and wins a game anyone who dare calls him "Botch" should be ashamed of themselves.



If Batch actually manages to throw a TD pass, or run for a TD, I'll give him credit. I wonder, can you give Lefty credit for putting up enough points tonight to win the game if it wasn't for ST's?

[steelerdiva]

If he starts, plays like shit and the team still wins, I will still call him "Botch," because that's what he does. Charlie's a terrific human being, but a horrible QB.

Geez, X....what the hell do you want? It's not like we have a whole lotta options here. Lefty ain't gonna get it done...that's pretty obvious after tonight.

So, tell me this...if they start Batch next week and he makes the play that ends up winning the game, what are you gonna say then?
Sh** I'm tired and I'm angry and before I type something I will regret later I'm goin to bed...Later, y'all.

[SteelerFanInStl]

The fact is that there's no valid reason for BOTH Leftwich and Batch to be on our team. They both suck. Neither one of them give us a good option to win when Ben gets injured. Johnson should've been kept.

We need to use a mid round draft pick this coming year on a backup QB or at least sign a decent FA QB.

[X-Terminator]

Geez, X....what the hell do you want? It's not like we have a whole lotta options here. Lefty ain't gonna get it done...that's pretty obvious after tonight.

So, tell me this...if they start Batch next week and he makes the play that ends up winning the game, what are you gonna say then?
Sh** I'm tired and I'm angry and before I type something I will regret later I'm goin to bed...Later, y'all.

I will give him full credit if he actually plays well. I just do not expect it, and neither should anyone else. All you have to do is check the tape and the numbers for your reason why.

[Psycho Ward 86]

leftwich was the obvious goat. and i still dont understand where the batch hate is coming from. is this a preseason judgement or something? I feel like im missing something here. seemed pretty clear to me as soon as ben went down that charlie shouldve gotten the nod to start, not leftwich

[zulater]

I will give him full credit if he actually plays well. I just do not expect it, and neither should anyone else.

I just want a win next week. Then worry about what follows. Because if we can't beat the Browns there may be no reason to bring Ben back when he's finally ready to go somewhere aound week 14 or 15.

- - - Updated - - -


The fact is that there's no valid reason for BOTH Leftwich and Batch to be on our team. They both suck. Neither one of them give us a good option to win when Ben gets injured. Johnson should've been kept.

We need to use a mid round draft pick this coming year on a backup QB or at least sign a decent FA QB.

Johnson is still available for a reason. Just because he got some yards against non NFL players in August doesn't mean he could help this team.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Johnson is still available for a reason. Just because he got some yards against non NFL players in August doesn't mean he could help this team.

Johnson or another free agent QB. Johnson showed some promise and at least he's capable of throwing the ball down the field. He also can get out of the pocket when it collapses.

[Craic]

leftwich was the obvious goat. and i still dont understand where the batch hate is coming from. is this a preseason judgement or something? I feel like im missing something here. seemed pretty clear to me as soon as ben went down that charlie shouldve gotten the nod to start, not leftwich

Because I've watched Batch, in the last five years, actually put up 1 win that had anything to do with him. The rest of the time the team carried him, yet, many around here think that he's the second coming of Johnny friggin' Unitas.

(yes, i'm being facetious and overstating - for clarification).

[zulater]

Because I've watched Batch, in the last five years, actually put up 1 win that had anything to do with him. The rest of the time the team carried him, yet, many around here think that he's the second coming of Johnny friggin' Unitas.

What? You think I don't watch the games? I know he plays ugly. But also know somehow the team seems to rally around him and win games.

The Ravens team we took to the wire in 2010 was much better than what we faced tonight.

The game was there for the taking. We didn't have a quarterback to exploit the league's 27th best defense, and that's why we lost.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Because I've watched Batch, in the last five years, actually put up 1 win that had anything to do with him. The rest of the time the team carried him, yet, many around here think that he's the second coming of Johnny friggin' Unitas.

(yes, i'm being facetious and overstating - for clarification).

but the question is has he let us down? No. I'll take Batch, especially since he fits in our offense much better.

[X-Terminator]

Because I've watched Batch, in the last five years, actually put up 1 win that had anything to do with him. The rest of the time the team carried him, yet, many around here think that he's the second coming of Johnny friggin' Unitas.

(yes, i'm being facetious and overstating - for clarification).

Well consider this, and this goes for the Batch supporters here. If Lefty is so terrible, what does it say about Batch that he could not beat him out for the primary backup job?

There is no hate for Batch, only the recognition that the guy is the 3rd string QB for a reason, and a big part of that is because he hasn't even been decent for over a decade.

[Craic]

What? You think I don't watch the games? I know he plays ugly. But also know somehow the team seems to rally around him and win games.

The Ravens team we took to the wire in 2010 was much better than what we faced tonight.

The game was there for the taking. We didn't have a quarterback to exploit the league's 27th best defense, and that's why we lost.

The Steelers team that took the Ravens' team to the wire was a lot better than the team that took the field tonight as well.

And no, the reason we lost, is because special teams couldn't stop a run back. It really is that simple.

I mean, 10 > 6. Steelers led by Lefty = 10 points. Ravens offense = 6 points. So why did we lose? Oh yeah. SPECIAL TEAMS. Amazing how that little issue of 7 points keeps creeping up.

- - - Updated - - -


but the question is has he let us down? No. I'll take Batch, especially since he fits in our offense much better.

Yep. He let us down when he couldn't beat the Ravens. He's let us down when he couldn't win in 07 - in fact, he's let us down in every game he's played in the last five years (except one) by being an ineffectual QB, just as bad or worse that Lefty - who can't throw TD's. At least Lefty ran for one tonight.

Again, am I happy with Lefty? Absolutely not. I think it was a horrible performance. I also think you all are refusing to face reality that Batch is just as bad - if not worse.

[zulater]

The Steelers team that took the Ravens' team to the wire was a lot better than the team that took the field tonight as well.

And no, the reason we lost, is because special teams couldn't stop a run back. It really is that simple.

I mean, 10 > 6. Steelers led by Lefty = 10 points. Ravens offense = 6 points. So why did we lose? Oh yeah. SPECIAL TEAMS. Amazing how that little issue of 7 points keeps creeping up.

Amazing how you ignore the fact that it only would have taken 14 points at home against the 27th ranked defense to overcome that special teams gaffe. If you can't score 14 points at home against a banged up defense you don't deserve to win.

How they scored the touchdown isn't relevant to the offenses lack of production.

[Craic]

Well consider this, and this goes for the Batch supporters here. If Lefty is so terrible, what does it say about Batch that he could not beat him out for the primary backup job?

There is no hate for Batch, only the recognition that the guy is the 3rd string QB for a reason, and a big part of that is because he hasn't even been decent for over a decade.

Exactly. Unless Haley isn't the offensive genius everyone's trying to make him out to be, and can't tell a decent QB from a bad one. My guess, Haley's pretty dang good - and knows who is the better QB.

[SteelMayhem72]

Time for a start batch thread...we have no other choice!

[Craic]

Amazing how you ignore the fact that it only would have taken 14 points at home against the 27th ranked defense to overcome that special teams gaffe. If you can't score 14 points at home against a banged up defense you don't deserve to win.

How they scored the touchdown isn't relevant to the offenses lack of production.

Nope, not ignoring it at all. I, however, don't expect a backup QB to be able to put up two touchdowns against the teams rival. I do expect the teams backup QB to be able to put up just enough points to win a game if the other phases play well.

Lefty did that. The Special Teams didn't.

Oh, and if we had Batch's point production last year? We'd have lost by 13 points - because Batch didn't put up any - against a defense just as bad. And since we're talking about ignoring things, aren't we ignoring the fact that it's the Ravens, who knows this team better than any other team in the NFL (except maybe, the Chiefs because of the coaching situation). I mean, we can do this all day. But the fact of the matter is, if it wasn't for the ST mistake, Steelers win. Period. Those are facts and there's no way around that.

Of course, if you want to blame Lefty for not going out there and tackling the guy on the punt return, be my guest.

[zulater]

Nope, not ignoring it at all. I, however, don't expect a backup QB to be able to put up two touchdowns against the teams rival. I do expect the teams backup QB to be able to put up just enough points to win a game if the other phases play well.

Lefty did that. The Special Teams didn't.

Oh, and if we had Batch's point production last year? We'd have lost by 13 points - because Batch didn't put up any - against a defense just as bad. And since we're talking about ignoring things, aren't we ignoring the fact that it's the Ravens, who knows this team better than any other team in the NFL (except maybe, the Chiefs because of the coaching situation). I mean, we can do this all day. But the fact of the matter is, if it wasn't for the ST mistake, Steelers win. Period. Those are facts and there's no way around that.

Of course, if you want to blame Lefty for not going out there and tackling the guy on the punt return, be my guest.

Honest to God. I hope Charlie Batch plays against the Brown and delivers the win. Because afterwards I'll torment your ass until I'm banned off the board!

[zulater]

Batch's last start he completed 68.6% of his passes and averaged a whopping 9.5 yards per attempt in helping the Steelers achieve a 27-0 win and Preacher declares he was awful that game!

So what do we call Leftwich and his 4.3 yards per pass attempt tonight then? Awful x 12 perhaps?

[Craic]

Honest to God. I hope Charlie Batch plays against the Brown and delivers the win. Because afterwards I'll torment your ass until I'm banned off the board!

Why? Because you can't argue around the special teams mistake, or because you think that a win against a 2-8 team is a much bigger deal than outscoring the offense of a team that's 8-2 and in second place in the AFC?

And in order to torment me, I would actually need to care enough first. Since this is a child's game that I get enjoyment from watching, there's nothing really to torment me about - plus there's this great little ignore feature if you do start.

I mean seriously, I know this is your "mental anguish outlet" or whatever you called it, but seriously, think about what you post first, because "Torment your ass" is a heck of a lot more disrespectful than someone calling you "son," and if I remember right, you took real issue over that a couple weeks ago.

[zulater]

Why? Because you can't argue around the special teams mistake, or because you think that a win against a 2-8 team is a much bigger deal than outscoring the offense of a team that's 8-2 and in second place in the AFC?

And in order to torment me, I would actually need to care enough first. Since this is a child's game that I get enjoyment from watching, there's nothing really to torment me about - plus there's this great little ignore feature if you do start.

I mean seriously, I know this is your "mental anguish outlet" or whatever you called it, but seriously, think about what you post first, because "Torment your ass" is a heck of a lot more disrespectful than someone calling you "son," and if I remember right, you took real issue over that a couple weeks ago.

I think you seriously misrepresents the contributions Charlie has made to this team over the years to the point of disrespect for him as a man and player.

But I wont taunt you if and when he helps the Steelers win another game. But I'll be interested to see if you'll man up and admit you were wrong.

[Steeldude]

Wallace - No effort on a must need 3rd down. Poor footwork etc... on TD pass. Costly fumble

Special Teams

Leftwich - I was in shock he actually made it into the endzone, but that was it for Leftwich. After that jaunt he was spent. He collapsed because he was exhausted. Who is the conditioning coach? During that collapse he injures himself.

[Steeldude]

Well consider this, and this goes for the Batch supporters here. If Lefty is so terrible, what does it say about Batch that he could not beat him out for the primary backup job?

There is no hate for Batch, only the recognition that the guy is the 3rd string QB for a reason, and a big part of that is because he hasn't even been decent for over a decade.

How many times have the Steeler sat the better player on the bench? Mclendon should be starting, but they insist the tub of goo should be there. Mundy was the immediate backup for the safety spot, but now Allen has supplanted him. IMO, Dwyer should be the starter with Redman and Mendenhall coming off the bench. I remember Harrison sitting on the bench while the old and overrated Porter used up the minutes. The Steelers don't always choose the right person. Personally, I believe Batch is better suited to run the dink-n-dunk offense. The problem is he will probably go down after the first hit.

What the Steelers need is a durable 2nd string QB. I am hoping they can get Campbell or Anderson next season.

[Craic]

I think you seriously misrepresents the contributions Charlie has made to this team over the years to the point of disrespect for him as a man and player.

But I wont taunt you if and when he helps the Steelers win another game. But I'll be interested to see if you'll man up and admit you were wrong.

Wrong about what? I've talked about Batch's work in the past, and the fact that he and Lefty are about the same level. Next week they're playing a 2-8 team. If Batch plays and has a good game, I'll congratulate him for the good game. That doesn't erase the fact that he's really not done that much outside of one good game in the last few years. Now, if he comes in and plays well against he Ravens, leading us to a win beyond the margin that Lefty had (six points), then I'm willing to re-think my position concerning Lefty/Batch.

And how in the world do you get "disrespect him as a man" out of me saying that he hasn't performed in any games but one in the last five years? You're really reaching, Zu. Really reaching here. I've never been impressed with him as a QB. He did a few good things in Detroit and in his first years here, he was serviceable. But he should have retired years ago and moved into coaching QB's. He's a heck of a lot more valuable there than as a backup.

[zulater]

I'm sorry I got carried away and said a few things I shouldn't have to Preacher.

That said it bothers the hell out of me the total lack of respect that is often given to Batch, and the total spin job that's used to discredit any contributions he's made to Steeler wins over the years.

- - - Updated - - -


Wrong about what? I've talked about Batch's work in the past, and the fact that he and Lefty are about the same level. Next week they're playing a 2-8 team. If Batch plays and has a good game, I'll congratulate him for the good game. That doesn't erase the fact that he's really not done that much outside of one good game in the last few years. Now, if he comes in and plays well against he Ravens, leading us to a win beyond the margin that Lefty had (six points), then I'm willing to re-think my position concerning Lefty/Batch.

And how in the world do you get "disrespect him as a man" out of me saying that he hasn't performed in any games but one in the last five years? You're really reaching, Zu. Really reaching here. I've never been impressed with him as a QB. He did a few good things in Detroit and in his first years here, he was serviceable. But he should have retired years ago and moved into coaching QB's. He's a heck of a lot more valuable there than as a backup.

He's played at least two good games in the two seasons prior to this.

[bayz101]

Wow. Charlie Batch has always been a dependable back-up, and i'm quite honestly shocked to see some of things i'm seeing. Leftwich got hurt two snaps into the game, and that's where he play started going down hill. I think if he's healed, he'll play well. I do however believe Batch is better suited for Haley's offense, and Leftwich would be better suited for an Arians offense.

[Count Steeler]

Lefty did not look good, for whatever reason last night. If he is injured, Batch has to start. If Lefty is deemed healthy, they will probably go with him again against Cleveland.

I am more disappointed in our play calling after the first drive, especially after Dwyer showed he could get the job done. Mendy, you let me down.

[steelerdiva]

Because I've watched Batch, in the last five years, actually put up 1 win that had anything to do with him. The rest of the time the team carried him, yet, many around here think that he's the second coming of Johnny friggin' Unitas.

(yes, i'm being facetious and overstating - for clarification).


NOBODY said anything him being another Unitas...geez!

All I'm saying is that he can't play much worse than Lefty did. Open thy mind, Preacher.

[steelerdude15]

I've got a few goats to hand out. First, I would like to hand one to coaching staff. Instead of running the ball down their throats like they should have, they passed quite a bit. Our QB was hurt and the o-line did an alright job at pass blocking, but was good rush blocking. It seemed that their d-line was constantly putting pressure on our o-line. Yet they still wanted to throw the ball. To add to this, it just so happens that the one running back who was gutting them didn't seem to play as much as he should have (I'm guessing stamina was the reasoning). Not happy with the offensive play calling, but I was happy with the defensive play calling.

Second, special teams. Not only did they allow a touchdown, but they allowed the Ravens O to start with good field position a few times while our field position was always crap.

Third, Mike Wallace. The fumble and dropped passes. I have nothing more to say.

[Moose]

STs, Wallace.

Can't agree more !!! We win if these player's did their job.

[Psycho Ward 86]

what the heck happened to leftwich anyways? how was he hurt? any information from postgame?

[Craic]

NOBODY said anything him being another Unitas...geez!

All I'm saying is that he can't play much worse than Lefty did. Open thy mind, Preacher.

Um... maybe you should re-read that part of my post that's in the parentheses - that part where I say I already know I'm being facetious and overstating. Open thy eyes, Steelerdiva.

[steelerdiva]

Um... maybe you should re-read that part of my post that's in the parentheses - that part where I say I already know I'm being facetious and overstating. Open thy eyes, Steelerdiva.

Ok..fine point taken.

But I stand by my statement...the coaches should have least let Batch in on a couple of series when they saw Lefty wasn't getting it done and hurt to boot.

That's it. I'm done with this.

[Craic]

Ok..fine point taken.

But I stand by my statement...the coaches should have least let Batch in on a couple of series when they saw Lefty wasn't getting it done and hurt to boot.

That's it. I'm done with this.

I have no argument with that. Like I said to Zu, I do think that it would have been very tough for Batch because would have came in after taking absolutely no snaps since preseason. In that sense, I understand why they stayed with Lefty. But if he couldn't throw the ball due to injury, at some point you do have to pull the plug on the guy.

On the other hand - broken ribs, and the guy stayed in the game. He might be made of glass - but he can sure handle pain.

[Shoes]

what the heck happened to leftwich anyways? how was he hurt? any information from postgame?

There was a slight crosswind @ .1 knots as Lefty crossed the G. line. :chuckle:

[zulater]

I don't buy into this notion that a "cold" Batch would have been worse than an obviously diminished Leftwich. Back up qb's go into games all the time in that circumstance. Batch is a veteran, he knows the offense and how to get into the flow. Besides he has been getting reps all season, because he's been running the other teams offense in practice all year for our defense's benifit. Lastly, I know Batch didn't play too well coming off the bench against the Titans in 2010. But to say he has no history of playing well cold is innacurate. He played a helluva game in relief of Ben against the Falcons a few years before. Two td passes and nearly 200 yards in 13 attempts.

Tomlin did a disservice to Leftwich, Batch, and the Steeler team by not recognizing the obvious pain his qb was in and how it was adversly affecting his play. As mentioned in the OP, there was no bigger goat than Tomlin for this game. I'd fix responsibility for the loss firmly on him.

[steeldawg]

Batch should of absolutely been put into that game, i dont know why this is even an arguement? Lefty could barley throw the ball 30 yds without doubling over in pain, he wasnt accurate, I dont see how putting a healthy batch in there would have been a bad move.