What should Steelers offer Wallace in a long term deal

[GBMelBlount]

Based on the signing of Brown and our current cap situation, what do you feel the Steelers should be willing to pony up to keep Wallace long term?

[Count Steeler]

GB, you beat me to it. I was going to start this kind of thread, but with a poll.

I was going to put up 5-7Mil, 8-10Mil, 11-13Mil. He is worth Fitz/Megatron money.

Do you want me to add this to this thread?

[Craic]

Nothing.

The season isn't over. No decisions, not even thoughts on that until the season is over and his whole body of work can be looked on.

[GBMelBlount]

GB, you beat me to it. I was going to start this kind of thread, but with a poll.

I was going to put up 5-7Mil, 8-10Mil, 11-13Mil. He is worth Fitz/Megatron money.

Do you want me to add this to this thread?

I was actually doing a poll but you saw it before I finished. lol.

Why don't you let me know if you think there is a better way to phrase the options.

....and by the way, I agree with Preach to wait until the season is over but I think it will be interesting to see what people's current thoughts are.

[Count Steeler]

I was actually doing a poll but you saw it before I finished. lol.

Why don't you let me know if you think there is a better way to phrase the options.

....and by the way, I agree with Preach to wait until the season is over but I think it will be interesting to see what people's current thoughts are.

Good job. Ya know, great minds....

[Seven]

I selected $7 million. At this point, if the season ended today, I'm not paying him more than Brown. So he walks, basically.

[GBMelBlount]

I selected $7 million. At this point, if the season ended today, I'm not paying him more than Brown. So he walks, basically.

I was wrestling with 7 or 8 and chose 8.

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Good job. Ya know, great minds....

Seriously Count, if I had to pick a poster whose thoughts on most Steelers topics most mirrored mine I would pick you.

However I do not think most people would take that as a compliment. lol.

[GodfatherofSoul]

This season is his audition for a new contract. Besides TDs (14th I think), his major stats are all in the 30s rank wise. Guys getting the top ten contracts should be game changers, not just very good.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards

[Count Steeler]

I chose up to 9mil, considering his first 2 1/2 years of work and taking into consideration his hold out this year. I think once he gets fully acclimatized into Haley's offense, he will do better and better.

The Steelers will have to develop draft picks and UDFAs much quicker. These guys are signed for 4 years and pretty cheap, compared to the vets.

Harrison and Hampton may be cap casualties, while Ben, Troy, Woodley and Timmons will have to renegotiate.

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Seriously Count, if I had to pick a poster whose thoughts on most Steelers topics most mirrored mine I would pick you.

However I do not think most people would take that as a compliment. lol.

Well, I certainly have to take it as a compliment. :applaudit: :chuckle:

[polamalubeast]

Franchise TAG

[fansince'76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91ISfcuzDw

:chuckle:

[steeldawg]

I selected $7 million. At this point, if the season ended today, I'm not paying him more than Brown. So he walks, basically.

Really you think brown earned 8 mil if the season ended today and wallace did not?

[polamalubeast]

Really you think brown earned 8 mil if the season ended today and wallace did not?

This is 7 per year for Brown(6/43 millions)not 8 millions



http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/antonio-brown/

[steeldawg]

This is 7 per year for Brown(6/43 millions)not 8 millions



http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/antonio-brown/ok, well do people really think what hes done this year justifies 7 million dollars?

[polamalubeast]

ok, well do people really think what hes done this year justifies 7 million dollars?

yes....next question

[steelreserve]

It's irrelevant what we offer Wallace. He's gone anyway because someone else will break the bank for him. Franchise tag or nothing, is how that's going to play out.

[bayz101]

ok, well do people really think what hes done this year justifies 7 million dollars?

He's caught for more yardage than Wallace. In fact, he may STILL be ahead even after being out a game. So let me ask you this...do you really believe Wallace is worth 7 million based? You seem to loooooooooooove you some Wallace and haaaaaaaate you some Brown. I chose 9 million dollars, by the way. :chuckle:

[zulater]

yes....next question


ditto

[Steeldude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91ISfcuzDw

:chuckle:

Remember this one?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRCsHpW8LVk

[X-Terminator]

ok, well do people really think what hes done this year justifies 7 million dollars?

For the production he's had so far, yes he has done enough to earn the contract, and would likely be doing more than enough had he not spent the past 3 weeks on the sideline. $7 million is about what an average to above-average WR makes, which makes it a bargain when you think about everything Brown brings to the table. As for Wallace, if you base it on his production the past 3 years, I'd put him in the $9-10 million range. He can still get that from the Steelers if they give him more guaranteed money and lessen the cap hit for the first year or 2 - something that not everyone has considered in this whole saga. It's not like the other sports where the AAV is the same throughout the life of the contract. And they obviously were not that concerned about the cap implications next year if they were willing to give him a $50 million contract.

[steeldawg]

For the production he's had so far, yes he has done enough to earn the contract, and would likely be doing more than enough had he not spent the past 3 weeks on the sideline. $7 million is about what an average to above-average WR makes, which makes it a bargain when you think about everything Brown brings to the table. As for Wallace, if you base it on his production the past 3 years, I'd put him in the $9-10 million range. He can still get that from the Steelers if they give him more guaranteed money and lessen the cap hit for the first year or 2 - something that not everyone has considered in this whole saga. It's not like the other sports where the AAV is the same throughout the life of the contract. And they obviously were not that concerned about the cap implications next year if they were willing to give him a $50 million contract.

This was in response to sevens comment that if the season ended today he would not pay wallace more than brown. My question was just to point out the bias against wallace due to his hold out. if antonio brown has earned 7 million its hard to then make the arguement that wallace is not worth more.

[Seven]

This was in response to sevens comment that if the season ended today he would not pay wallace more than brown. My question was just to point out the bias against wallace due to his hold out. if antonio brown has earned 7 million its hard to then make the arguement that wallace is not worth more.

I don't give a damn about the holdout. He's absolutely in the right to go after as much money as he can. I'm almost always in favor of the player during contract disputes in this league and that doesn't change with Wallace. I just think it would be in the Steelers best interest to allocate that money to other areas of the field. The holdout has nothing to do with it.

And how is it "hard" to make the argument that Wallace isn't worth more? Other than touchdowns this season Brown has nearly identical stats - on far fewer snaps. Not to mention he adds an extra dimension to special teams, something Wallace has never done.

[steeldawg]

I don't give a damn about the holdout. He's absolutely in the right to go after as much money as he can. I'm almost always in favor of the player during contract disputes in this league and that doesn't change with Wallace. I just think it would be in the Steelers best interest to allocate that money to other areas of the field. The holdout has nothing to do with it.

And how is it "hard" to make the argument that Wallace isn't worth more? Other than touchdowns this season Brown has nearly identical stats - on far fewer snaps. Not to mention he adds an extra dimension to special teams, something Wallace has never done.

TDs are important they win football games, you can catch first downs all day long but it does no good if you dont get the ball in the endzone. You think we can win with a number reciever scoring 1 or 2 tds in a season, the answer is absolutely not. Also wallace has put the numbers for 4 seasons now and brown is still unproven, how can you not like what wallace is doing this year but defend antonio browns season, your saying brown is just as good as good as wallace except he doesnt score? Scoring is very important, i keep hearing tds arent everything, well to me they mean more than catches and yards, which by the way wallace puts up alot of also.

[Seven]

TDs are important they win football games, you can catch first downs all day long but it does no good if you dont get the ball in the endzone. You think we can win with a number reciever scoring 1 or 2 tds in a season, the answer is absolutely not. Also wallace has put the numbers for 4 seasons now and brown is still unproven, how can you not like what wallace is doing this year but defend antonio browns season, your saying brown is just as good as good as wallace except he doesnt score? Scoring is very important, i keep hearing tds arent everything, well to me they mean more than catches and yards, which by the way wallace puts up alot of also.

Touchdowns are very important but how many of Wallace's touchdowns could have been scored by another receiver had they been running that route? Who knows. It would only be speculation. But touchdowns are so insanely hard to predict that you can't sign a player based solely on touchdown production. Believe me, many years of fantasy football has taught me that haha.

So taking touchdowns out of the equation, Brown and Wallace are neck in neck in production this year. And... since you claim we overpaid Brown, how can you justify paying Wallace more?

[zulater]

Brown had two punt return td's called back this season. He's a danger to break one any game. Look it up, teams that score special teams TD's win at an amazingly high rate. So how can that not factor into the discussion of his contract?

[steeldawg]

Touchdowns are very important but how many of Wallace's touchdowns could have been scored by another receiver had they been running that route? Who knows. It would only be speculation. But touchdowns are so insanely hard to predict that you can't sign a player based solely on touchdown production. Believe me, many years of fantasy football has taught me that haha.

So taking touchdowns out of the equation, Brown and Wallace are neck in neck in production this year. And... since you claim we overpaid Brown, how can you justify paying Wallace more?

But you cant take tds out of the equationthey are a crucial part of the equation and again its not neck and neck wallace has stayed consistent, brown is still unproven. Brown had one decent season but again im not giving him a pass on the tds you dont get paid 7 mil a year to catch a few first downs you gotta score. So i can easily make a case for wallace being paid more he catches alot of passes he makes alot of yards he scores and hes done it for 3 and half seasons now. Antonio brown has shown flashes but nothing consistent, he had a decent year but didnt score much and dont tell me he moves the chains because he only caught 3 more first downs than wallace last year. Now hes hurt so he missed almost the entire giants game the cheifs will miss the ravens and probaly the browns.

Brown 127 catches 1774yds 3tds career 7 mil a year
Wallace 213 catches 3745 30tds career 2.7mil a year
ya wallace has played one more season than brown but its more than double the production.

[silver & black]

I rarely post in here, but I have to ask: Why do any of you care what he gets paid? It isn't like he's going to break the franchise's back, even he gets $15 million.

I know your team doesn't usually pay huge contracts, but is it really that importent to you what they decide to pay him?

[zulater]

I rarely post in here, but I have to ask: Why do any of you care what he gets paid? It isn't like he's going to break the franchise's back, even he gets $15 million.

I know your team doesn't usually pay huge contracts, but is it really that importent to you what they decide to pay him?

The Steelers have serious cap issues going into next season.

[steeldawg]

I rarely post in here, but I have to ask: Why do any of you care what he gets paid? It isn't like he's going to break the franchise's back, even he gets $15 million.

I know your team doesn't usually pay huge contracts, but is it really that importent to you what they decide to pay him?
Its because he held out and alot of fans have the attitude that nobody does that to the steelers. personally i would love to see him get his money i think hes a great weapon.

[Seven]

Its because he held out and alot of fans have the attitude that nobody does that to the steelers. personally i would love to see him get his money i think hes a great weapon.

I haven't seen one person say they are still upset about the holdout.

[silver & black]

The Steelers have serious cap issues going into next season.

I see. I guess I never figured the Steelers to be a team that would have that problem. It makes sense, now.

[Seven]

But you cant take tds out of the equationthey are a crucial part of the equation and again its not neck and neck wallace has stayed consistent, brown is still unproven. Brown had one decent season but again im not giving him a pass on the tds you dont get paid 7 mil a year to catch a few first downs you gotta score. So i can easily make a case for wallace being paid more he catches alot of passes he makes alot of yards he scores and hes done it for 3 and half seasons now. Antonio brown has shown flashes but nothing consistent, he had a decent year but didnt score much and dont tell me he moves the chains because he only caught 3 more first downs than wallace last year. Now hes hurt so he missed almost the entire giants game the cheifs will miss the ravens and probaly the browns.

Brown 127 catches 1774yds 3tds career 7 mil a year
Wallace 213 catches 3745 30tds career 2.7mil a year
ya wallace has played one more season than brown but its more than double the production.

Forget about the career numbers. We're talking about Brown and Wallace in THIS offense. They both have 42 receptions for about 500 yards (499, 539 respectively). They're producing the same. But you claim we overpaid Brown. Your argument doesn't hold up. If this was a vertical offense, I'd pay Wallace whatever he wants. But in a scheme where Emmanuel Sanders can produce nearly as well as he for a fraction of the price, give me that. I'd much rather throw that cash towards fixing the cap than I would giving Wallace money that he doesn't deserve.

[zulater]

But you cant take tds out of the equationthey are a crucial part of the equation and again its not neck and neck wallace has stayed consistent, brown is still unproven. Brown had one decent season but again im not giving him a pass on the tds you dont get paid 7 mil a year to catch a few first downs you gotta score. So i can easily make a case for wallace being paid more he catches alot of passes he makes alot of yards he scores and hes done it for 3 and half seasons now. Antonio brown has shown flashes but nothing consistent, he had a decent year but didnt score much and dont tell me he moves the chains because he only caught 3 more first downs than wallace last year. Now hes hurt so he missed almost the entire giants game the cheifs will miss the ravens and probaly the browns.

Brown 127 catches 1774yds 3tds career 7 mil a year
Wallace 213 catches 3745 30tds career 2.7mil a year
ya wallace has played one more season than brown but its more than double the production.

Kinda skewered by their playing time. As a 6th round pick Brown had an uphill struggle to find playing time early in his career. Even last year he only started 3 games.

The comparison you're making would be like comparing Tom Brady's first 3 seasons with Peyton Manning's. Obviously Manning was more prolific because he was handed the reins earlair. And even after Brady won a starters spot the Patriots were reluctant to put too much on his shoulders early.

In other words the stigma of being a 6th round pick takes a long time to shake.

One more example. Brett Keisel (also a 6th round pick) didn't start so much as one game before his 4th full season in the league. Ziggy Hood on the other hand was starting by his 2nd season.

So was Ziggy that much better that early? Hell no! He still isn't worthy of carrying Keisel's jock. But again Keisel had to overcome the stigma of being a 6th round pick.

The hurdle's a 6th round pick has to overcome to even make the team are great. And even after they show they belong in the league they're still doubted, because the teams just can't come to grips with the fact that they had them that poorly rated coming out of college. Rather than admit that the player either developed late or they evaluated wrong they sometimes continue to believe what they're seeing in practice is a mirage.

One more case in point, though it's not a 6th round pick. James Harrsion spring to mind. Forget that he was cut 3 times. Even after his place in the NFL was no longer in jeapordy due to his special teams prowess, the Steelers still refused to see him as a potential starting linebacker for 3 years. Think about it, Clark Haggans was starting and James Harrison was there and could have played. Every time James got on the field as a back up he crushed it. But because that original undrafted status was there they refused to beleive what they were seeing was genuine.

Anway, the fact that Antonio Brown climbed as far up from the depths as he did as quick as he did would show most people what an exceptional player he is. So rather than berate him for stats not accumalted due to lack of early playing time most of us focus on the strong production that he's shown when afforded a chance.

[steeldawg]

Kinda skewered by their playing time. As a 6th round pick Brown had an uphill struggle to find playing time early in his career. Even last year he only started 3 games.

The comparison you're making would be like comparing Tom Brady's first 3 seasons with Peyton Manning's. Obviously Manning was more prolific because he was handed the reins earlair. And even after Brady won a starters spot the Patriots were reluctant to put too much on his shoulders early.

In other words the stigma of being a 6th round pick takes a long time to shake.

One more example. Brett Keisel (also a 6th round pick) didn't start so much as one game before his 4th full season in the league. Ziggy Hood on the other hand was starting by his 2nd season.

So was Ziggy that much better that early? Hell no! He still isn't worthy of carrying Keisel's jock. But again Keisel had to overcome the stigma of being a 6th round pick.

The hurdle's a 6th round pick has to overcome to even make the team are great. And even after they show they belong in the league they're still doubted, because the teams just can't come to grips with the fact that they had them that poorly rated coming out of college. Rather than admit that the player either developed late or they evaluated wrong they sometimes continue to believe what they're seeing in practice is a mirage.

One more case in point, though it's not a 6th round pick. James Harrsion spring to mind. Forget that he was cut 3 times. Even after his place in the NFL was no longer in jeapordy due to his special teams prowess, the Steelers still refused to see him as a potential starting linebacker for 3 years. Think about it, Clark Haggans was starting and James Harrison was there and could have played. Every time James got on the field as a back up he crushed it. But because that original undrafted status was there they refused to beleive what they were seeing was genuine.

Anway, the fact that Antonio Brown climbed as far up from the depths as he did as quick as he did would show most people what an exceptional player he is. So rather than berate him for stats not accumalted due to lack of early playing time most of us focus on the strong production that he's shown when afforded a chance.


does not justify him being paid more than wallace or even being a number 1 receiver.

[zulater]

does not justify him being paid more than wallace or even being a number 1 receiver.

There's only one reason Antonio Brown is making more money than Mike Wallace this year. Antonio signed the deal he was offered, Mike didn't! . Had he done so he'd be making more money than Brown is right now!

So your beef should be with Wallace and his agent, not any of us or Antonio! :lol:

As far as Brown as a potential number 1?. If he gets the chance we'll see. I think he's got a lot of Hines Ward in him. If Mike Wallace leaves you're welcome to believe Antonio will fail. But I doubt anyone within the Steelers orginization is similarly concerned.

But again the best case scenario is that Mike re-ups in the offseason and they all continue to thrive in Pittsburgh.

[steeldawg]

There's only one reason Antonio Brown is making more money than Mike Wallace this year. Antonio signed the deal he was offered, Mike didn't! . Had he done so he'd be making more money than Brown is right now!

So your beef should be with Wallace and his agent, not any of us or Antonio! :lol:

As far as Brown as a potential number 1?. If he gets the chance we'll see. I think he's got a lot of Hines Ward in him. If Mike Wallace you're welcome to believe Antonio will fail. But I doubt anyone within the Steelers orginization is similarly concerned.

But again the best case scenario is that Mike re-ups in the offseason and they all continue to thrive in Pittsburgh.

Im not talking about now im talking about people suggesting hes worth the same or less than brown.

[polamalubeast]

does not justify him being paid more than wallace or even being a number 1 receiver.



The difference is that Brown has a long-term contract, which is not the case for Wallace

also, it is not true that Brown made ​​more money this year than Wallace




http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/pittsburgh-steelers/wide-receiver/

[Seven]

Im not talking about now im talking about people suggesting hes worth the same or less than brown.

What makes you think Brown can't be a number one option? Wallace disappeared when he was inserted into the lineup last year. And he is on pace for over 80 catches and 1,000 yards this year. That's not worthy of being a good receiver?

[steeldawg]

The difference is that Brown has a long-term contract, which is not the case for Wallace

also, it is not true that Brown made ​​more money this year than Wallace






http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/pittsburgh-steelers/wide-receiver/

Ya he gets the most on the back end, so does that mean he only has to perform in the years of the contract he gets paid more money

[zulater]

Im not talking about now im talking about people suggesting hes worth the same or less than brown.

I get that, and I agree that once Wallace gets his long term deal done ( for whoever it's with) he'll be more highly compensated than Brown.

But where I disagree is this. If Wallace goes elsewhere I'd make you a gentlemens's bet that Antonio would be more productive in 2013 than Wallace would be whereever he's at.

But again I hope it doesn't come to that. ( though I suspect it will)

[X-Terminator]

I haven't seen one person say they are still upset about the holdout.

Don't have to. And since you live here in the Burgh, you should know how the majority of Steelers fans are here. They may SAY it's not about the holdout, but believe me, the negative opinion of him is skewed because of it.

[Seven]

Don't have to. And since you live here in the Burgh, you should know how the majority of Steelers fans are here. They may SAY it's not about the holdout, but believe me, the negative opinion of him is skewed because of it.

You make a good point, I can buy it in general.. but I don't feel like the regulars to this and the other Wallace thread feel that way. I certainly don't.

[steeldawg]

What makes you think Brown can't be a number one option? Wallace disappeared when he was inserted into the lineup last year. And he is on pace for over 80 catches and 1,000 yards this year. That's not worthy of being a good receiver?

he was on pace for it but not now, and ya its a decent year but again he doesnt score. Wallaces number dipped at the end of the year because his first part of the season was awsome and teams had to start game planning for him, they tried to take him out of the game which opened up things for brown.

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I get that, and I agree that once Wallace gets his long term deal done ( for whoever it's with) he'll be more highly compensated than Brown.

But where I disagree is this. If Wallace goes elsewhere I'd make you a gentlemens's bet that Antonio would be more productive in 2013 than Wallace would be whereever he's at.

But again I hope it doesn't come to that. ( though I suspect it will)

I will take that bet, but i dont think we let him go.

[Seven]

he was on pace for it but not now, and ya its a decent year but again he doesnt score. Wallaces number dipped at the end of the year because his first part of the season was awsome and teams had to start game planning for him, they tried to take him out of the game which opened up things for brown.

Yeah, he's not on pace for it now because he's hurt. So what? And defenses haven't been rolling coverage to Wallace hardly at all this year, and Brown still produces. Try again.

[zulater]

Don't have to. And since you live here in the Burgh, you should know how the majority of Steelers fans are here. They may SAY it's not about the holdout, but believe me, the negative opinion of him is skewed because of it.

I don't think it's the holdout so much as they think he turned down a fair offer from the Steelers. You look at the Steelers recent history. When they make it an offseason priority to resign a highly productive player coming near the end of his first contract they've got it done. Woodley, Timmons, before them Heath Miller, Big Ben,Troy, even Willie Freaking Colon! :lol:

So when the Steelers are that serious about it, you see the numbers that were being discussed and no deal came, yeah it was a shock, and said to many that Wallace's priorities may be more about making money than playing for the Steelers. Never a great way to endear yourself to Steeler fans. :chuckle:

[steeldawg]

Yeah, he's not on pace for it now because he's hurt. So what? And defenses haven't been rolling coverage to Wallace hardly at all this year, and Brown still produces. Try again.

WHAT!!!! teams roll coverage to wallace every game, hes facing either man coverage with a safety over the top or bracket coverage. There is no team that is covering wallace man for man, especially on a consistent basis. What production has brown done? he has some catches yes he has some yards but he should with the attention wallaces gets but he still doesnt score, when we get in the redzone he disappears.

[86WARD]

The Steelers have serious cap issues going into next season.

What happens when they start unloading the "dead weight?" ie) Casey Hampton.

There are also a lot of "banks" to hit up for the money as well. Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Taylor, Harrison, Woodley (all over $6M) ... they'll be able to create some space there. Not sure if it is enough, but Ben and Woodley combined are over $20M. I imagine that they will both be reworked and I'm willing to bet that Ben would be more than happy to do it if they can keep Wallace.

There should also be an increase next year or is that 2014? They may not be in that bad of shape...let's hope we're all hitting the "cap panic button" too early...lol.

Wallace at around $8-9M with more guaranteed money than Brown (or a bigger signing bonus) to make him feel like he's getting a better deal, I don't see why that wouldn't work for Wallace. Brown will probably be reworked anyway before he gets to the end of his deal...

[Seven]

WHAT!!!! teams roll coverage to wallace every game, hes facing either man coverage with a safety over the top or bracket coverage. There is no team that is covering wallace man for man, especially on a consistent basis. What production has brown done? he has some catches yes he has some yards but he should with the attention wallaces gets but he still doesnt score, when we get in the redzone he disappears.

Tell that to Kansas City.

[steeldawg]

Tell that to Kansas City.

KC doubled him the entire game!!!

[st33lersguy]

The man's dropped passes like Limas Sweed, $5 million or less. If he says no, then let him walk

[zulater]

What happens when they start unloading the "dead weight?" ie) Casey Hampton.

There are also a lot of "banks" to hit up for the money as well. Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Taylor, Harrison, Woodley (all over $6M) ... they'll be able to create some space there. Not sure if it is enough, but Ben and Woodley combined are over $20M. I imagine that they will both be reworked and I'm willing to bet that Ben would be more than happy to do it if they can keep Wallace.

There should also be an increase next year or is that 2014? They may not be in that bad of shape...let's hope we're all hitting the "cap panic button" too early...lol.

Wallace at around $8-9M with more guaranteed money than Brown (or a bigger signing bonus) to make him feel like he's getting a better deal, I don't see why that wouldn't work for Wallace. Brown will probably be reworked anyway before he gets to the end of his deal...

My guess is that the Steelers make re-upping Maurkice Pouncey their highest offseason priority. It's hard to imagine them getting that done and Wallace in the same offseason.

[zulater]

KC doubled him the entire game!!!


No that's not even close to true. I have NFL rewind, and upgraded to the all 22. And I've watched every play of that game at least twice. And he was doubled on some plays, but not even 1/4 in all. And that includes obvious passing downs.

[Seven]

KC doubled him the entire game!!!

Oh really? That's interesting. What players did they double him with?

Heres the truth of the matter: Kansas City plays a pretty stale brand of defense. Flowers at LCB, Arenas at RCB - at all times. They play a lot of 2 Man Under with Lewis and Berry dropping back on both sides of the field. When Berry is on run support or blitzing, Lewis usually stays back at the FS spot either playing to the middle of the field or to his side - regardless of who the receiver is. When in dime, Berry generally has the tight end while Derrick Johnson takes the back (this is all on man schemes which they run a lot of).

So tell me again, when the Chiefs are out of zone coverage which DBs were "double covering" Wallace?

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No that's not even close to true. I have NFL rewind, and upgraded to the all 22. And I've watched every play of that game at least twice. And he was doubled on some plays, but not even 1/4 in all. And that includes obvious passing downs.

All 22 ftw.

When you speak to double coverage are you saying you saw two men man up on Wallace, or are you considering a deep zone to his size from either safety "double coverage", too?

[steeldawg]

Oh really? That's interesting. What players did they double him with?

Heres the truth of the matter: Kansas City plays a pretty stale brand of defense. Flowers at LCB, Arenas at RCB - at all times. They play a lot of 2 Man Under with Lewis and Berry dropping back on both sides of the field. When Berry is on run support or blitzing, Lewis usually stays back at the FS spot either playing to the middle of the field or to his side - regardless of who the receiver is. When in dime, Berry generally has the tight end while Derrick Johnson takes the back (this is all on man schemes which they run a lot of).

So tell me again, when the Chiefs are out of zone coverage which DBs were "double covering" Wallace?

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All 22 ftw.

When you speak to double coverage are you saying you saw two men man up on Wallace, or are you considering a deep zone to his size from either safety "double coverage", too?

They played a cover 2 most of the game to defend agianst wallace and the deep ball wwhich should of left the middle of the field wide open. it puts a corner underneath him and a deep safety over the top while its not 2 men running with him it still brackets him. Teams do not cover wallace man on man it would be suicide hes to fast.

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Oh really? That's interesting. What players did they double him with?

Heres the truth of the matter: Kansas City plays a pretty stale brand of defense. Flowers at LCB, Arenas at RCB - at all times. They play a lot of 2 Man Under with Lewis and Berry dropping back on both sides of the field. When Berry is on run support or blitzing, Lewis usually stays back at the FS spot either playing to the middle of the field or to his side - regardless of who the receiver is. When in dime, Berry generally has the tight end while Derrick Johnson takes the back (this is all on man schemes which they run a lot of).

So tell me again, when the Chiefs are out of zone coverage which DBs were "double covering" Wallace?

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All 22 ftw.

When you speak to double coverage are you saying you saw two men man up on Wallace, or are you considering a deep zone to his size from either safety "double coverage", too?

The fact is defenses have to gameplan for wallace they cannot simply put a corner on him without help.

[Seven]

The fact is defenses have to gameplan for wallace they cannot simply put a corner on him without help.

You just had two posters who have together seen the game roughly five times, three of which viewings from the coaches film, tell you they didn't. And you still try and claim they double covered him all game? This isn't some subjective statement, it's fact. Arenas and Flowers had him alone when in man coverage for the vast majority of the game.

[zulater]

They played a cover 2 most of the game to defend agianst wallace and the deep ball wwhich should of left the middle of the field wide open. it puts a corner underneath him and a deep safety over the top while its not 2 men running with him it still brackets him. Teams do not cover wallace man on man it would be suicide hes to fast.

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The fact is defenses have to gameplan for wallace they cannot simply put a corner on him without help.

They actually do so quite frequently, usually with a large degree of success.

[Seven]

They actually do so quite frequently, usually with a large degree of success.

but that s false!!!K!! you do not simply single cover mike wallace without losing!!!

:heh:

[steelreserve]

I rarely post in here, but I have to ask: Why do any of you care what he gets paid? It isn't like he's going to break the franchise's back, even he gets $15 million.

I know your team doesn't usually pay huge contracts, but is it really that importent to you what they decide to pay him?

Heh .. .as a Raiders fan, I'd think you of all people would know how quickly splurging on $15 million contracts can screw up a team.

[steeldawg]

You just had two posters who have together seen the game roughly five times, three of which viewings from the coaches film, tell you they didn't. And you still try and claim they double covered him all game? This isn't some subjective statement, it's fact. Arenas and Flowers had him alone when in man coverage for the vast majority of the game.

No they didnt . http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/11/steelers-versus-chiefs-game-rewind-second-half-notes/ I dont care how many times they watch the game the chiefs still played alot of cover 2.

[steeldawg]

You just had two posters who have together seen the game roughly five times, three of which viewings from the coaches film, tell you they didn't. And you still try and claim they double covered him all game? This isn't some subjective statement, it's fact. Arenas and Flowers had him alone when in man coverage for the vast majority of the game.

http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/

[zulater]

http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/

I trust my own eyes more than Dale Lolley's. Sorry, not saying the Chiefs didn't play some cover 2. But Wallace saw plenty of single coverage, and did little to exploit it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lolley's source was Wallace himself. Receivers are always claiming their open on every play, or when they're not they were double covered. :chuckle:

Seriously I'm watching the game as we discuss this. And the Chiefs didn't go to any great lengths to take Wallace out of the game.

[zulater]

I'll give you an example. On Wallace's touchdown catch he was covered man up by #24. The safety slides over late for inside help, but only after he determine's that Heath Miller and Jonathan Dwyer aren't releasing into the pattern. (both stayed in to block) It's not until Ben commits and has the ball in the air that Berry makes a move in Wallace's direction.

That's not double coverage.

[steelerdude15]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91ISfcuzDw

:chuckle:

:rofl2:

[bayz101]

Well, Andre Johnson just showed why he's making the big bucks with nearly 300 yards receiving and the game-winning touchdown score from 48 yards out. Wallace has ONE 100 yard game this season, and he's making 2 million. Seems quite justified to me.

[steeldawg]

I'll give you an example. On Wallace's touchdown catch he was covered man up by #24. The safety slides over late for inside help, but only after he determine's that Heath Miller and Jonathan Dwyer aren't releasing into the pattern. (both stayed in to block) It's not until Ben commits and has the ball in the air that Berry makes a move in Wallace's direction.

That's not double coverage.

Its a short field no need wallace is not gonna run by you from the 7

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I'll give you an example. On Wallace's touchdown catch he was covered man up by #24. The safety slides over late for inside help, but only after he determine's that Heath Miller and Jonathan Dwyer aren't releasing into the pattern. (both stayed in to block) It's not until Ben commits and has the ball in the air that Berry makes a move in Wallace's direction.

That's not double coverage.

Also wallace did score against single coverage if you want to get technical

[bayz101]

Bottom line is that Wallace is going to need to step it up BIG TIME in Brown and Ben's absence tonight. If he gathers another 50 or 60 yards receiving i'll be disappointed.

[steeldawg]

Well, Andre Johnson just showed why he's making the big bucks with nearly 300 yards receiving and the game-winning touchdown score from 48 yards out. Wallace has ONE 100 yard game this season, and he's making 2 million. Seems quite justified to me.

And wallace still has 3 more td catches than johnson.

[bayz101]

Its a short field no need wallace is not gonna run by you from the 7

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Also wallace did score against single coverage if you want to get technical

Are you insinuating that he's only good if he's got 40 yards and a straight line ahead of him? You DO realize receivers need to go over the middle, not only on the field, but in the End Zone, right? Straight line speed isn't worth more than what we're paying Brown.

[steeldawg]

Are you insinuating that he's only good if he's got 40 yards and a straight line ahead of him? You DO realize receivers need to go over the middle, not only on the field, but in the End Zone.

No the point is they are not going to double cover him from the 7, no need to put a safety over the top from the 7 yard line that be ridiculous.

[bayz101]

And wallace still has 3 more td catches than johnson.

As I said earlier, a majority of Wallace's touchdown catches this year came in our losses. Andre Johnson has been injured a lot of this season. He'll probably STILL finish with better stats at the end of the year. Touchdown catches aren't everything, especially when you still lose the game in the end. Do you honestly believe Mike Wallace is a better all-around receiver than Andre Johnson? I know you didn't say that, i'm just asking.

[steeldawg]

As I said earlier, a majority of Wallace's touchdown catches this year came in our losses. Andre Johnson has been injured a lot of this season. He'll probably STILL finish with better stats at the end of the year.

And i pointed out you are wrong this year alone he has td catches in 3 wins and 3 losses and career wise its not even close, he catches tds we win the numbers dont lie. Andre johson has started and played every game this season.

[bayz101]

No the point is they are not going to double cover him from the 7, no need to put a safety over the top from the 7 yard line that be ridiculous.

Sorry to tell you this, but when Brown was on the field, Wallace wasn't double-covered nearly as much as some fans claim. Several times he was in man coverage, and failed to beat his man. Brown would be over the middle making plays, even when his route broke and he had to improvise. Brown is an all-around good receiver who make plays without the help of a speedy receiver occasionally drawing double coverage. When Wallace scored on deep balls once a game in Bruce Arians ridiculous system, deep backs took notice and put an extra man on him. In this offensive system, a speedy receiver like Wallace isn't a MUST. The receivers we have can be productive without Wallace's speed. He hasn't shown enough for me to believe he's anything other than a straight-line speed receiver, and that alone isn't worth 8 million dollars, in my honest opinion.

[Count Steeler]

And i pointed out you are wrong this year alone he has td catches in 3 wins and 3 losses and career wise its not even close, he catches tds we win the numbers dont lie. Andre johson has started and played every game this season.


So which is it? 6 TDs, 3 in wins, 3 in losses. He catches TDS, we are 50/50 on wins.

[steeldawg]

Sorry to tell you this, but when Brown was on the field, Wallace wasn't double-covered nearly as much as some fans claim. Several times he was in man coverage, and failed to beat his man. Brown would be over the middle making plays, even when his route broke and he had to improvise. Brown is an all-around good receiver who make plays without the help of a speedy receiver occasionally drawing double coverage. When Wallace scored on deep balls once a game in Bruce Arians ridiculous system, deep backs took notice and put an extra man on him. In this offensive system, a speedy receiver like Wallace isn't a MUST. The receivers we have can be productive without Wallace's speed. He hasn't shown enough for me to believe he's anything other than a straight-line speed receiver, and that alone isn't worth 8 million dollars, in my honest opinion.

So what do we do about tds or do you plan on beating teams with field goals? How do you know the recievers can be productive without wallace since they have not been on the field without wallace. And the fact is he is doubled every game with a safety over the top, that is why brown is able to catch 6 or 7 balls over the middle. There may be occasions were he is single covered but he is not consistently covered by single coverage. Everyone keeps telling me brown is making all these big catches, can you name them?

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So which is it? 6 TDs, 3 in wins, 3 in losses. He catches TDS, we are 50/50 on wins.

career wise its 22-5 when he catches a td

[bayz101]

And i pointed out you are wrong this year alone he has td catches in 3 wins and 3 losses and career wise its not even close, he catches tds we win the numbers dont lie. Andre johson has started and played every game this season.

Andre Johnson has played through his injuries. Nothing major, obviously, but even minor injury are nagging. Oh, could be wrong, but here ya go:

Denver Broncos. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Loss.
New York Jets. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Win.
Oakland Raider. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Loss.
Philadelphia Eagles. Wallace held to 17 yards. End Result: Win
Tennessee Titans. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Loss
Cincinnati Bengals. Wallace drops five passes. End Result: Win.
Washington Redskins. No scores for Wallace. End Result: Win.
New York Giants. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Win (Note this was really his only meaningful game this year)
Kansas City Chiefs. Wallace scores on probably the luckiest catch of all-time. 14 yards on the day. End Result: Win.

3 losses with a touchdown.
2 wins with a touchdown.

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I give up. There's no point in even arguing. It's like yelling at wall.

[steeldawg]

Andre Johnson has played through his injuries. Nothing major, obviously, but even minor injury are nagging. Oh, could be wrong, but here ya go:

Denver Broncos. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Loss.
New York Jets. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Win.
Oakland Raider. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Loss.
Philadelphia Eagles. Wallace held to 17 yards. End Result: Win
Tennessee Titans. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Loss
Cincinnati Bengals. Wallace drops five passes. End Result: Win.
Washington Redskins. No scores for Wallace. End Result: Win.
New York Giants. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Win (Note this was really his only meaningful game this year)
Kansas City Chiefs. Wallace scores on probably the luckiest catch of all-time. 14 yards on the day. End Result: Win.

3 losses with a touchdown.
2 wins with a touchdown.


check your math ace jets win giants win kc win 3 wins with td catch

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Andre Johnson has played through his injuries. Nothing major, obviously, but even minor injury are nagging. Oh, could be wrong, but here ya go:

Denver Broncos. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Loss.
New York Jets. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Win.
Oakland Raider. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Loss.
Philadelphia Eagles. Wallace held to 17 yards. End Result: Win
Tennessee Titans. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Loss
Cincinnati Bengals. Wallace drops five passes. End Result: Win.
Washington Redskins. No scores for Wallace. End Result: Win.
New York Giants. Wallace scores a touchdown. End Result: Win (Note this was really his only meaningful game this year)
Kansas City Chiefs. Wallace scores on probably the luckiest catch of all-time. 14 yards on the day. End Result: Win.

3 losses with a touchdown.
2 wins with a touchdown.

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I give up. There's no point in even arguing. It's like yelling at wall.

I love it the guy with 6 tds has only played one meaningful game this season but the guy out with an injury and has 1 td catch is the playmaker. Maybe you should go yell at the wall.

[Psycho Ward 86]

lol you guys arent seriously throwing a cloud over a receiver's td's just because they come in a losing effort? damn, wallace better stop scoring in games we lose in to make everyone feel better :lol:. Good lord we are really scraping the barrel for ways to throw wallace under the bus

[steeldawg]

lol you guys arent seriously throwing a cloud over a receiver's td's just because they come in a losing effort? damn, wallace better stop scoring in games we lose in to make everyone feel better :lol:. Good lord we are really scraping the barrel for ways to throw wallace under the bus

It is getting totally outrageous!

[bayz101]

Steelers 7, Wallace 3.

[GBMelBlount]

Wallace's gift is his speed.

I pray they Steelers use that to their advantage in the 2nd half of this game.

[st33lersguy]

Where is the choice "Don't try to sign him" or "try and trade him"

[Count Steeler]

Any way we can get a first rounder for him? He does not show any signs of having the rust come off from his hold out and stepping up big. Mr Wallace is about to play in his last 5 games (hopefully 9) as a Steeler.

I wonder if they will start to bench him when Brown comes back. No need to waste reps on a player that has checked out.

[86WARD]

No one was willing to give up a first rounder before this season...why would they do it now? lol...

I doubt at this point anyone would give one up for Mendenhall either.

[Count Steeler]

No one was willing to give up a first rounder before this season...why would they do it now? lol...

I doubt at this point anyone would give one up for Mendenhall either.

Maybe package them together for a 2nd and a 3rd? I was really expecting both of them to be stellar in the 2nd half of this season. Oh well, that is why I don't gamble.

[Dwinsgames]

Let him walk and be happy with the compensatory selection you receive for him and knowing that some other team threw away a large part of their cap space

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Maybe package them together for a 2nd and a 3rd? I was really expecting both of them to be stellar in the 2nd half of this season. Oh well, that is why I don't gamble.

you can NOT trade players at this point in the season and NEITHER of them are under contract with us in 2013 so we have no way of trading them without first signing them to a contract that will make them untradable because they will both want more than their market value will dictate then we would be stuck with them both and in worse cap condition than we are now

[zulater]

Let him walk and be happy with the compensatory selection you receive for him and knowing that some other team threw away a large part of their cap space

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Excellent post! :applaudit:

[Count Steeler]

you can NOT trade players at this point in the season and NEITHER of them are under contract with us in 2013 so we have no way of trading them without first signing them to a contract that will make them untradable because they will both want more than their market value will dictate then we would be stuck with them both and in worse cap condition than we are now

Thanks for clearing that up.

[X-Terminator]

At this point, I think Wallace needs to go catch passes from RGIII or Rosie Palmer, because he's worn out any good will he had left. He's not even close to being worth what the Steelers offered. He has given zero effort the past 3 weeks on top of having hands of stone.

[Dwinsgames]

At this point, I think Wallace needs to go catch passes from RGIII or Rosie Palmer, because he's worn out any good will he had left. He's not even close to being worth what the Steelers offered. He has given zero effort the past 3 weeks on top of having hands of stone.


:applaudit:

[Moose]

Offer Wallace ? How about the door and a bus ticket ? Too much money for his talent of 50/50 catches. I'm tired of holding my breath every time they throw to him.....ah, let's see....will he catch it ? and if he does, will he HOLD onto it ?

[Devilsdancefloor]

He is going to be shown the door he is so much like desean jackson giving 0 effort id rather see plax ahead of him

[zulater]

In two weeks against the Chargers, Wallace is likely to catch 8 for about 140 with two td's, so what's everyone going to be saying then? :heh:

Look I get it, he's not worth, nor is he going to get what he wants money wise from the Steelers. And there's a good chance he and the Steelers will part company after this season.

But the guy still is a talent. A game breaker, who obviously misses Ben more than anyone. But I think Ben's coming back. Hopefully real soon. And if he does, Wallace goes from zero to hero real quick like and some of you are going to be stuck with comments you'll wish you hadn't made.

So get Ben back, hopefully get Antonio back next week too, and let's see what our full compliment of receicvers can accomplish in tandem before we cut the cord.

[Moose]

He is going to be shown the door he is so much like desean jackson giving 0 effort id rather see plax ahead of him

You're right about the O effort, I don't think I've ever seen him dive for a ball. It has to be a perfect pass for him to have a 50/50 shot of catching.

[zulater]

Whatever we're paying Ben, it's not enough.

[st33lersguy]

If I was the FO, I would have cut Wallace immediately after the game ended and not even allowed him on the team bus. I hope that jackass masquerading as a football player gets put on the bench, stays on the bench for the team's final 5 games of the year, and never plays another down for the black and gold

[Moose]

One of the many things that pissed me off with the brown's game and turnovers, was the interception that bounced off of Wallace....he didn't even try to tackle the guy afterwards ! He's just so 1 sided. Hopefully he's just so young and doesn't really know everything that's involved with being a good receiver, (contact coming off of line, coming back for a pass, diving for the ball, extending, holding on to the ball, tackling the guy if he intercepts the damn pass, etc..), and improves his worth. But I sure hope he doesn't use this year as a resume' on what he can do. Just my opinion he's not worth the money for the wait.

[Carolina Steelers]

If I was the FO, I would have cut Wallace immediately after the game ended and not even allowed him on the team bus. I hope that jackass masquerading as a football player gets put on the bench, stays on the bench for the team's final 5 games of the year, and never plays another down for the black and gold

wow thats alittle harsh IMO, I agree i want more production and more effort but to cut him after game is just silly IMO. We picked up Burress because of depth, so get rid of wallace and move Gilreath up depth chart or better yet get TO

[steeldawg]

Wallace i dont think you can put much on him for the browns game he was open alot and batch simply did not have the arm strength to get him the ball. as far as the int it was a poor throw and i have never heard of a wideout being worth more for being a good tackler after an int. Wallace had that db beat by 10 yards on the deep ball and batch hit the defender in the head.

[zulater]

Wallace i dont think you can put much on him for the browns game he was open alot and batch simply did not have the arm strength to get him the ball. as far as the int it was a poor throw and i have never heard of a wideout being worth more for being a good tackler after an int. Wallace had that db beat by 10 yards on the deep ball and batch hit the defender in the head.

For the most part I'm with you today. Wallace is getting a little too much abuse. But Wallace has to catch that ball! He had two hands on it! Yeah it was thrown slightly behind him, but he made the right adjustment and he had the ball seemingly under control. But then he started thinking about running after the catch and lost the handle. After seeing the play several times I think Batch is pretty much free of blame. Mike has to secure that pass.

[Dwinsgames]

the old saying is , if you can get both hands on the football it is a football that you MUST catch ......

[Psycho Ward 86]

ive defended wallace for the longest time now but even i cant excuse his performance today. 1 catch for 9 yards, and on a stpid last ditch hook-and-ladder play to boot? Disgraceful. I know you're up against joe haden but come on wallace. And 2 of those interceptions were at least partially your fault. That quick slant was a tough behind the body catch but thats an nfl catch you gotta make, or at least not bobble in the air that dangerously. That hail mary pass was ridiculously underthrown, but that was a necessary throw for us to win. gotta make that catch wallace, or at least knock it down. Christ. Still concerned about the void that may be left if he leaves, but ill save it for another day. He did get wide open deep a couple times and batch's lack of arm strength just didnt allow for it but boy, did he have the most underwhelming performance of his season or what?

Usually very harsh on sanders' potential to be a starter in this league but i was somewhat pleased with his performance. Made us look more alive than anyone on offense today, and for how sporadic batch's arm was today, not bad. Not a huge confidence booster yet. Hope he continues to do well.

[SteelerEmpire]

Walllace is just bummed out due to the negotiations... he'll be alright next yr...

[Steeldude]

Wallace i dont think you can put much on him for the browns game he was open alot and batch simply did not have the arm strength to get him the ball. as far as the int it was a poor throw and i have never heard of a wideout being worth more for being a good tackler after an int. Wallace had that db beat by 10 yards on the deep ball and batch hit the defender in the head.

Once again he shows his poor fundamentals and lack of effort.


as far as the int it was a poor throw

Once again Wallace does not fight for the ball. If he had any fundamentals/instincts he would have known to fight for the ball or knock it down. Shouldn't that be really easy to do for a WR who wants at least $10,000,000 a year?

On an out pattern he just let the ball sail to the ground without even a step back to the ball. He doesn't even try and you want to give him millions. Where is the logic?

[BlastFurnace]

Can't vote for him to receive anything. He's gone.

[venom]

New gloves

[plenewken]

I don't think he's worth anywhere near what he thinks he is but he's definitely a constant threat. I'd keep him for the right price. If he wants more than what the FO offers, let him go.
If we want to cut big name players next season, I'd start with guys like Polamalu, Hampton and Harrison. I'm sorry but these guys are done. Too many injuries for some and not enough juice for the others.

[GodfatherofSoul]

I don't think he's worth anywhere near what he thinks he is but he's definitely a constant threat. I'd keep him for the right price. If he wants more than what the FO offers, let him go.
If we want to cut big name players next season, I'd start with guys like Polamalu, Hampton and Harrison. I'm sorry but these guys are done. Too many injuries for some and not enough juice for the others.

Wow man. Harrison and Hampton are just starting to get back to 100%. Polamalu might be injury prone, but damn that's one hell of an upside to trade away. Now, if we get some ridiculous offer, I'd say let him go. In fact, this might be the time to do it if a trade were possible.

[Steeldude]

Wow man. Harrison and Hampton are just starting to get back to 100%. Polamalu might be injury prone, but damn that's one hell of an upside to trade away. Now, if we get some ridiculous offer, I'd say let him go. In fact, this might be the time to do it if a trade were possible.

Hampton lost it years ago. He's done.

[Carolina Steelers]

Hampton lost it years ago. He's done.

I agree Big Snack done

[Count Steeler]

Walllace is just bummed out due to the negotiations... he'll be alright next yr...

Unfortunately, it won't be in a Steelers' uniform.

[steeldawg]

Once again he shows his poor fundamentals and lack of effort.



Once again Wallace does not fight for the ball. If he had any fundamentals/instincts he would have known to fight for the ball or knock it down. Shouldn't that be really easy to do for a WR who wants at least $10,000,000 a year?

On an out pattern he just let the ball sail to the ground without even a step back to the ball. He doesn't even try and you want to give him millions. Where is the logic?

Wallace is not going to out jump dbs for the ball that is not his game, his game is to run by people which he does, the quarterback needs to put the ball out in front of him instead of underthrowing the ball by 15 yards and expect him to stop while hes going full tilt turn around run back and out jump the db. Jesus man the guy the is getting open by 10 yards why should he have to fight for the ball? We are not gonna pay wallace to be a jump ball reciever, as far as that out route that ball was drastically underthrown. Im not defending his play he has been bad the last few games, but im not gonna gonna start jumping on him for not defending passes when hes got people beat and they cant get him the ball.

[steelreserve]

Once again Wallace does not fight for the ball. If he had any fundamentals/instincts he would have known to fight for the ball or knock it down. Shouldn't that be really easy to do for a WR who wants at least $10,000,000 a year?

On an out pattern he just let the ball sail to the ground without even a step back to the ball. He doesn't even try and you want to give him millions. Where is the logic?

Pretty much that. If it was the first time I'd seen a lack of effort, maybe I'd chalk it up to the incredibly frustrating way the game was going. But it wasn't the first time. Wallace increasingly looks like a guy who thinks all he needs to do is show up because of his raw talent. But as other teams have started figuring him out, the result is more like a guy who goes through the motions and lives for the occasional big play. That does not make you one of the top WRs in the league, which you'd damn well better be for $10M.

[Count Steeler]

Wallace is not going to out jump dbs for the ball that is not his game, his game is to run by people which he does, the quarterback needs to put the ball out in front of him instead of underthrowing the ball by 15 yards and expect him to stop while hes going full tilt turn around run back and out jump the db. Jesus man the guy the is getting open by 10 yards why should he have to fight for the ball? We are not gonna pay wallace to be a jump ball reciever, as far as that out route that ball was drastically underthrown. Im not defending his play he has been bad the last few games, but im not gonna gonna start jumping on him for not defending passes when hes got people beat and they cant get him the ball.

Well, now you are calling out Haley. Or is Wallace just a decoy now? Why set patterns in which the QB can only dream of completing? Better to take him off the field and put in another tackle or tight end and just resign yourself to running the ball.

[steeldawg]

Well, now you are calling out Haley. Or is Wallace just a decoy now? Why set patterns in which the QB can only dream of completing? Better to take him off the field and put in another tackle or tight end and just resign yourself to running the ball.

No im calling out our qbs, why have a guy whos going to beat dbs by 10 yards if your going to throw it 10yds in front of him and want him to jump for it. Why now are we expecting wallace to be a jump ball receiver i am not going to pin blame on wallace because batch could oonly throw the ball 30 yards.

[Count Steeler]

No im calling out our qbs, why have a guy whos going to beat dbs by 10 yards if your going to throw it 10yds in front of him and want him to jump for it. Why now are we expecting wallace to be a jump ball receiver i am not going to pin blame on wallace because batch could oonly throw the ball 30 yards.

Then that is poor planning by Haley. Why send a receiver beyond your QB's range? I'm sure they say Batch's limitations in practice. Or did Haley forget that Batch had to drop back 10 yards from the line of scrimmage?

[steeldawg]

Then that is poor planning by Haley. Why send a receiver beyond your QB's range? I'm sure they say Batch's limitations in practice. Or did Haley forget that Batch had to drop back 10 yards from the line of scrimmage?

Normally i would agree but batch's range was like 30yds if you dont send anyone deeper than that your mid range passing game becomes almost impossible when the d can just sit on those routes.

[Count Steeler]

Normally i would agree but batch's range was like 30yds if you dont send anyone deeper than that your mid range passing game becomes almost impossible when the d can just sit on those routes.

Yeah, but if the safeties figure out that Batch can't throw more than 30 yards, why cover Wallace? No wonder he was so wide open.

Should have just went with an extra tackle, a RB and a FB. Snap the ball to the RB or FB and just run the ball. And on the odd occasion, let the RB toss one to the TE. If the QB can't throw it, why even have him in the game?

[Steeldude]

Wallace is not going to out jump dbs for the ball that is not his game, his game is to run by people which he does, the quarterback needs to put the ball out in front of him instead of underthrowing the ball by 15 yards and expect him to stop while hes going full tilt turn around run back and out jump the db. Jesus man the guy the is getting open by 10 yards why should he have to fight for the ball? We are not gonna pay wallace to be a jump ball reciever, as far as that out route that ball was drastically underthrown. Im not defending his play he has been bad the last few games, but im not gonna gonna start jumping on him for not defending passes when hes got people beat and they cant get him the ball.

Jumping is not his game? What? Is that a serious statement?


his game is to run by people which he does

Again, his 40 time.


why should he have to fight for the ball

Another one. Are you actually serious? Why should a WR fight for the ball? I'm sorry, but you have no idea what makes a WR. Swann had people beat, but he still fought for the ball when it wasn't right to him. Why? Because that's his job.

You have basically said you are content with Wallace not trying.

[zulater]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/11/keenan-lewis-couldnt-have-picked-a-better-year-for-himself-to-turn-the-proverbial-corner/

Keenan Lewis is going to be a UFA after this season too. He's a much higher priority than Wallace to get signed to a long term deal.

[Dwinsgames]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/11/keenan-lewis-couldnt-have-picked-a-better-year-for-himself-to-turn-the-proverbial-corner/

Keenan Lewis is going to be a UFA after this season too. He's a much higher priority than Wallace to get signed to a long term deal.

we have a lot of issues headed toward 2013 , this team will have one of its biggest turnovers to date very similar to this years turnover in personnel ...

we have just 35 guys under contract for 2013 and are way over the projected cap with just that many

[steeldawg]

Jumping is not his game? What? Is that a serious statement?



Again, his 40 time.



Another one. Are you actually serious? Why should a WR fight for the ball? I'm sorry, but you have no idea what makes a WR. Swann had people beat, but he still fought for the ball when it wasn't right to him. Why? Because that's his job.

You have basically said you are content with Wallace not trying.

Your taking what i said out of context, i said if hes open by ten yards why should he have to fight for the ball. Also i didnt say jumping was not in his game i said hes not going to out jump dbs, not every receiver is a jump ball type receiver that doesnt mean they are not good, I dont see antonio brown out jumping dbs or making high flying catches over defenders, his game is very much predicated on speed.

[smokin3000gt]

This kid can be a play maker when he wants to be but other then the black and gold on his back, he is not a Steeler at heart. His attitude is poor and only seems to go 'after' the ball when it's put on his numbers. Too many times I've seen him eyeball catchable balls into the ground because he didn't reach, jump, or even try for it. I would say 8-10mil based on the last couple years, maybe 7 mil based on this year, but I'm going drop him down to 6 because I don't think he fits on this team and IMO gives up on plays.

[Count Steeler]

You know what, Wallace is just playing for the amount he is getting paid. That reveals a lot about his character.

I thought we could get a deal done with him, but the FO must have caught wind about something. Why would they offer him next to nothing in guaranteed money? They were making sure that if he signed, he signed on their terms. They forced him into playing for minimum wage (in his mind) to test his character. Well, unless there is a drastic turnaround, which would completely shock me, Wallace has some growing up to do. Unfortunately, he will be maturing in different colors.

[steelreserve]

At this point, I'm just pissed they didn't cut their RFA offer to $600K or whatever it was when they had the chance.

[43Hitman]

You know what, Wallace is just playing for the amount he is getting paid. That reveals a lot about his character.

I thought we could get a deal done with him, but the FO must have caught wind about something. Why would they offer him next to nothing in guaranteed money? They were making sure that if he signed, he signed on their terms. They forced him into playing for minimum wage (in his mind) to test his character. Well, unless there is a drastic turnaround, which would completely shock me, Wallace has some growing up to do. Unfortunately, he will be maturing in different colors.

From the time I was old enough to take responsibility for my actions, my dad always said to me that adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it. Now I'm pretty sure he isn't the first one to say that to his kid or players, but it stands true. I use that same line on my son to this day.

At this point, its clear to me that the character revealed in Mike's recent adversity isn't what the Steelers or the the fans are looking for.

[Steeldude]

Your taking what i said out of context, i said if hes open by ten yards why should he have to fight for the ball. Also i didnt say jumping was not in his game i said hes not going to out jump dbs, not every receiver is a jump ball type receiver that doesnt mean they are not good, I dont see antonio brown out jumping dbs or making high flying catches over defenders, his game is very much predicated on speed.


i said if hes open by ten yards why should he have to fight for the bal

Again, because it's his job. That's what he is paid to do.


i said hes not going to out jump dbs

Why not? He could at least try. A $10,000,000 who can't out jump DBs or at least try to? Most DBs are 6' and under. Surely Wallace can jump.


I dont see antonio brown out jumping dbs or making high flying catches over defenders

Brown isn't sent on long routes as much as Wallace, but I have seen Brown diving for passes. There aren't many jump balls on crossing routes etc... Brown's game is built on effort, agility, hands, fundamentals and also speed.

What excuse do you have for Wallace's willful lack of effort?

[GBMelBlount]

You know what, Wallace is just playing for the amount he is getting paid. That reveals a lot about his character.

I thought we could get a deal done with him, but the FO must have caught wind about something. Why would they offer him next to nothing in guaranteed money? They were making sure that if he signed, he signed on their terms. They forced him into playing for minimum wage (in his mind) to test his character. Well, unless there is a drastic turnaround, which would completely shock me, Wallace has some growing up to do. Unfortunately, he will be maturing in different colors.

That is a good point.

However I do wonder if part of this is because of pride and jealousy.

Brown stole the show last year imo and became a team and fan favorite. Is it possible that Wallace is so steeped in pride, jealousy and primadonnaishness (new word) that he just wants out of here so he can be the clear number one and fan favorite somewhere else? While Brown was out hustling everyone, winning over fans and flashing those pearly whites all last season it seemed to me we could not even get a smile out of Wallace. ...and the long term deal with Brown may have been the icing on the cake.

Money could be a big factor but I for one do not believe it is the only one.

[43Hitman]

That is a good point.

However I do wonder if part of this is because of pride and jealousy.

Brown stole the show last year imo and became a team and fan favorite. Is it possible that Wallace is so steeped in pride, jealousy and primadonnaishness (new word) that he just wants out of here so he can be the clear number one and fan favorite somewhere else? While Brown was out hustling everyone, winning over fans and flashing those pearly whites all season it seemed to me we could not even get a smile out of Wallace. ...and the long term deal with Brown may have been the icing on the cake.

Money could be a big factor but I for one do not believe it is the only one.

I love the new word. Now class, everyone is required to use GBMelBlount's new word in a sentence 10 times. :chuckle:

[86WARD]

At this point, I'm just pissed they didn't cut their RFA offer to $600K or whatever it was when they had the chance.

Coulda used some of that extra dough for a real back up QB...

[Seven]

I didnt say it wasnt in his game to jump


Wallace is not going to out jump dbs for the ball that is not his game

For anyone debating Steeldawg, herei s the type of nonsense you get to deal with. It's like talking to a brick wall.

[steeldawg]

For anyone debating Steeldawg, herei s the type of nonsense you get to deal with. It's like talking to a brick wall.

Again if you know anything about wide receiver you would know those two statements do not contradict eachother.

[Dwinsgames]

Again if you know anything about wide receiver you would know those two statements do not contradict eachother.


no disrespect intended but you really can not be serous .... can you ?

[Texasteel]

This has been a good debate, over something that we all have differect oppinions on. Let keep it that way please.

[KeiselPower99]

I think I would either let him walk or tag and trade him. He has been a major disappointment this season. We have Saunders to worry about and he has out played Wallace.

[steeldawg]

no disrespect intended but you really can not be serous .... can you ?

they do not there is a difference between being a jump ball receiver and not being able to jump at all.

[Steeldude]

they do not there is a difference between being a jump ball receiver and not being able to jump at all.

No one has said or implied that certain WRs excel at jumping when catching a pass compared to others. The problem is why doesn't Wallace jump at all? It's called effort. Surely Wallace has at least a 30" vertical or more. Is it impossible for him to extend his arms above his head?

Yes, you do run from questions. That's a fact proven over and over again. Why can't Wallace at least try to out jump DBs for the ball?

What excuse do you have for Wallace's willful lack of effort? Also, where you get this idea that if Wallace is open by 10 yards he does not have to fight for a poor pass?

[Dwinsgames]

to clear up just a bit of stuff I can find ZERO excuse for Wallace to not jump for the ball if need be , he can jump he did so at the combine he has a 40 inch vertical and unless I still have the old tape ( dvd ) around of his workout I recon I will NEVER see him come close to a 40" vertical again ( have a hard time remembering him ever leave his feet by more than 10-12 inches ) the only thing that is even remotely plausible for him not fighting for balls in traffic or going up for the ball is lack of effort ... PERIOD

the combine is a tool nothing more it has very little to do with how a player actually plays the game ( 17 is a prime example of that ) for reference purposes only the link below is proof he can jump the only question that remains is why he does not ....

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Mike&l=Wallace&i=8384

[Count Steeler]

Mendy has lost his starter's role, Wallace has lost 1/2 of his. 2 guys, if you ask me, that are on their way out the door. I would have hoped that they wanted to display their wares and prove to the league that they are worthy of the contracts they will be asking for.

Fortunately for them, there are teams that lack scouting acumen. I'm just glad they won't be in the black and gold next year.

[Mojouw]

This debate is way too focused on attempting to analyze Wallace's mindset. I could care less about what Mike Wallace thinks or his feelings. Clearly Tomlin's decision this week is the message that the Steelers want to send to Wallace. They have basically told him that he isn't worth $10 million per and currently they aren't sure about the 2.7 million he is getting this year. That being said, I think the critical bits of the decision are what does NOT having Wallace on the team do? Wallace simply lining up dictates safety coverages. He has a skill (being stupid fast) that forces defenses to account for him on every play. While I believe that both Brown and Sanders are very good WRs, I don't feel that you need to design a defensive scheme to stop either one of them. My biggest question is how well will Sanders and Brown perform when Wallace is not there to draw double teams and/or the deep safety? And further, what is that worth to Steelers?

[Dwinsgames]

This debate is way too focused on attempting to analyze Wallace's mindset. I could care less about what Mike Wallace thinks or his feelings. Clearly Tomlin's decision this week is the message that the Steelers want to send to Wallace. They have basically told him that he isn't worth $10 million per and currently they aren't sure about the 2.7 million he is getting this year. That being said, I think the critical bits of the decision are what does NOT having Wallace on the team do? Wallace simply lining up dictates safety coverages. He has a skill (being stupid fast) that forces defenses to account for him on every play. While I believe that both Brown and Sanders are very good WRs, I don't feel that you need to design a defensive scheme to stop either one of them. My biggest question is how well will Sanders and Brown perform when Wallace is not there to draw double teams and/or the deep safety? And further, what is that worth to Steelers?

good points but what I must ask is Wallace even the number 1 on his own team , considering this ..

Many think Brown will suffer if Wallace leaves ....

but the fact is Wallace has suffered without Brown on the field , and further more Sanders stepped up and gave us Brown like production while Wallace shit the bed that in itself should make anyone pause and reflect on who brings the most value to our offense

[Mojouw]

good points but what I must ask is Wallace even the number 1 on his own team , considering this ..

Many think Brown will suffer if Wallace leaves ....

but the fact is Wallace has suffered without Brown on the field , and further more Sanders stepped up and gave us Brown like production while Wallace shit the bed that in itself should make anyone pause and reflect on who brings the most value to our offense

Two things may not make the Brown/Wallace production question as clear-cut as it seems at first glance. Throw the games with the back-up QB's out. Batch and his knuckle-floater noodle arm make any passing game data irrelevant because the Steelers aren't really even running a competent NFL offense when Batch is under center. Leftwhich should have counted as I think he has a better deep ball then Ben, but he busted some ribs or whatever on the first play. He had no ability to throw over 20 yards by the middle of the first half. So that means we only have about 1/2 a season of data from a new offense (the second thing that makes the situation a bit murky) to go on. I for one am extremely cautious to draw any long-term conclusions from that.

I think it is very clear that everyone suffers when Brown is out. I would like to see what things look like w/out Wallace...does Brown suffer similarly? I just wish there was a way to find that out before the Steelers have to play chicken with Wallace over his contract.

[Dwinsgames]

Two things may not make the Brown/Wallace production question as clear-cut as it seems at first glance. Throw the games with the back-up QB's out. Batch and his knuckle-floater noodle arm make any passing game data irrelevant because the Steelers aren't really even running a competent NFL offense when Batch is under center. Leftwhich should have counted as I think he has a better deep ball then Ben, but he busted some ribs or whatever on the first play. He had no ability to throw over 20 yards by the middle of the first half. So that means we only have about 1/2 a season of data from a new offense (the second thing that makes the situation a bit murky) to go on. I for one am extremely cautious to draw any long-term conclusions from that.

I think it is very clear that everyone suffers when Brown is out. I would like to see what things look like w/out Wallace...does Brown suffer similarly? I just wish there was a way to find that out before the Steelers have to play chicken with Wallace over his contract.


those backup QBs did not hinder Sanders ability to make some plays in fact he stepped his game up hauling in 82 and 75 yards in the outings with the guys Wallace could not get anything done with 9 yards and 24 .....

Sanders and Brown together can be highly effective IMO and offer you a tandem that is equally dangerous at going deep or playing small ball .. that's just my opinion and I also feel they are both better suited for Haleys scheme

[Steeldude]

Wallace drops another pass :thumbsup:

[SteelerFanInStl]

At this point I think that anything more than a plane ticket is too much. He's shown his true colors this year and I'm tired of him.

[ALLD]

You can pay Wallace up to 8 or 9 and if he doesn't work out, trade him.

[Dwinsgames]

You can pay Wallace up to 8 or 9 and if he doesn't work out, trade him.


how ???

we are 15 million over the cap with just 35 guys under contract for 2013 and our starting CB Lewis is a FA ...

and that is if he is deemed worthy of such a payday ( and he is not )

[zulater]

how ???

we are 15 million over the cap with just 35 guys under contract for 2013 and our starting CB Lewis is a FA ...

and that is if he is deemed worthy of such a payday ( and he is not )

I brought this up a couple weeks ago. Keenan Lewis is a much higher priority than Wallace.

Stupid ass Raiders and Jets have made the number too high to franchise a cb. So they need to act quick, like as soon as their season's over and make a concerted drive to get Keenan's name on a long term contract.

[Craic]

I brought this up a couple weeks ago. Keenan Lewis is a much higher priority than Wallace.

Stupid ass Raiders and Jets have made the number too high to franchise a cb. So they need to act quick, like as soon as their season's over and make a concerted drive to get Keenan's name on a long term contract.

I hate to admit it (because I had high hopes for Wallace), but you're right. There's no reason we can't go with Sanders and Brown as our two main WR's next year. The way the CB's are playing, we need to lock up Keenan for a long time. He's shown flashes of this kind of play for a few years now, but his head wasn't always right. This year I think that's changed. We're seeing a change on the defense and the future is Lewis and Allen, with Taylor retiring in three or four years or so (does anyone see Taylor being able to be an everyday starter at 36?).

With Miller in there, we will always have three very good options in Sanders, Brown, and Miller. Put your money on being able to stop the other team's offense, and we'll win games with that lineup. Plenty of them.

[Steeldude]

You can pay Wallace up to 8 or 9 and if he doesn't work out, trade him.

Why pay him that kind of money? Trades just don't happen like that in the NFL. You have to find a team that will absorb Wallace's contract.

- - - Updated - - -


how ???

we are 15 million over the cap with just 35 guys under contract for 2013 and our starting CB Lewis is a FA ...

and that is if he is deemed worthy of such a payday ( and he is not )

From the estimates I have read the Steelers will be 21 million over

[Dwinsgames]

- - - Updated - - -




- - - Updated - - -



From the estimates I have read the Steelers will be 21 million over

when you consider the rookie pool and the RFA contract they will most diffidently offer tenders to that's pretty much it and maybe a little more dependent upon where they tender guys

[Craic]

Its because he held out and alot of fans have the attitude that nobody does that to the steelers. personally i would love to see him get his money i think hes a great weapon.

Not any more. He's done very little this year to earn it. Actually, over the last year and a half. On top of that, if we sign him to a nice sized contract, then we're going to lose some other players this year or next year. Who are you willing to lose? Ike Taylor? Troy P.? Ben R.? Willie Colon? Timmons? Woodley? Harrison?

Those are the names with cap hits that would have to be cleared for a big contract to Wallace, and I'm sorry, but Wallace means less to this team than every one of those players listed above. Even Harrison.

And that's not to mention the cap-hell we already find ourselves in, let alone having to sign him, and a number of other players back this year.

- - - Updated - - -


Why pay him that kind of money? Trades just don't happen like that in the NFL. You have to find a team that will absorb Wallace's contract.



Some of it. I believe signing bonuses stay with the original team, and actually get tacked on to the cap number that year, or split between that year and the next, I don't remember right now.

[Dwinsgames]

the ONLY way you could sign and trade a guy like Wallace is a long term heavily back loaded contract that has a small signing bonus ....you know the kind he would never agree to

[Count Steeler]

The Steelers made the perfect contract offer to Wallace. As reported it was 50m for 5 years, but only 8m guaranteed. It was enough to keep him, but not enough to make him unattractive if they try to trade him. It also tested his commitment. No surprise that when he turned it down, Brown was locked up. I'd rather lockup Sanders at this point and Keenan Lewis.

[steelreserve]

the ONLY way you could sign and trade a guy like Wallace is a long term heavily back loaded contract that has a small signing bonus ....you know the kind he would never agree to

There's always franchise tag-and-trade, which is more likely. Let the other team worry about the guaranteed money and bonuses and all that crap.

Personally, I think he just walks after the season and we get a third-round compensatory pick, although Goodell probably knocks it down to seventh and gives a first-round pick to the Patriots.

[SteelerFanInStl]

You can easily find a guy to replace him late in the draft. We've done it repeatedly.

My only concern here is that Wallace and Lewis are friends from way back. If we let Wallace walk, Lewis may decide to leave also.

[Craic]

You can easily find a guy to replace him late in the draft. We've done it repeatedly.

My only concern here is that Wallace and Lewis are friends from way back. If we let Wallace walk, Lewis may decide to leave also.

Hmm. You know, if Al Davis was still around, we could tag Wallace and then talk to the Raiders about a trade.

[Dwinsgames]

Hmm. You know, if Al Davis was still around, we could tag Wallace and then talk to the Raiders about a trade.


problem with that is Al would not have any picks in the first 3 rounds cause he would have already dealt them for a couple of 40 year old Vets LOL