Mourning in America - Here's Those Layoffs We Voted For

[zulater]

Last night's victory for the President marks the first time since its inception that Obamacare is no longer a what-if; it is the future of health care in America.

It also means a near immediate impact on the economy. With 20 or so new or higher taxes set to be implemented, ranging from a $123 billion surtax on investment income, through the $20 billion medical device tax, all the way down to the $600 million executive compensation limit, Obamacare will be a nearly unbearable tax burden on the economy.

Who will pay? The middle-class workforce, of course.

So with another four years for President Obama to look forward to, and the obvious inevitability of Obamacare that this entails, let's examine the very real jobs that will be lost, and the very real lives that will be affected.

Welch Allyn

Welch Allyn, a company that manufactures medical diagnostic equipment in central New York, announced in September that they would be laying off 275 employees, or roughly 10% of their workforce over the next three years. One of the major reasons discussed for the layoffs was a proactive response to the Medical Device Tax mandated by the new healthcare law.

Dana Holding Corp.

As recently as a week ago, a global auto parts manufacturing company in Ohio known as Dana Holding Corp., warned their employees of potential layoffs, citing "$24 million over the next six years in additional U.S. health care expenses". After laying off several white collar staffers, company insiders have hinted at more to come. The company will have to cover the additional $24 million cost somehow, which will likely equate to numerous cuts in their current workforce of 25,500 worldwide.

Stryker

One of the biggest medical device manufacturers in the world, Stryker will close their facility in Orchard Park, New York, eliminating 96 jobs in December. Worse, they plan on countering the medical device tax in Obamacare by slashing 5% of their global workforce - an estimated 1,170 positions.

Boston Scientific

In October of 2009, Boston Scientific CEO Ray Elliott, warned that proposed taxes in the health care reform bill could "lead to significant job losses" for his company. Nearly two years later, Elliott announced that the company would be cutting anywhere between 1,200 and 1,400 jobs, while simultaneously shifting investments and workers overseas - to China.

Medtronic

In March of 2010, medical device maker Medtronic warned that Obamacare taxes could result in a reduction of precisely 1,000 jobs. That plan became reality when the company cut 500 positions over the summer, with another 500 set for the end of 2013.

Others

A short list of other companies facing future layoffs at the hands of Obamacare:

Smith & Nephew - 770 layoffs
Abbott Labs - 700 layoffs
Covidien - 595 layoffs
Kinetic Concepts - 427 layoffs
St. Jude Medical - 300 layoffs
Hill Rom - 200 layoffs
Beyond the complete elimination of a significant number of American jobs is another looming problem created by the health care law - a shift from full-time to part-time workers.

Sean Hackbarth of Free Enterprise explains:

A JP Morgan economist "points out that 8.3 million people are working in part-time jobs even though they'd prefer full-time work. Unfortunately, because of President Obama’s health care law, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), workers in the hotel, restaurant, and retail industries could be pushed into part-time jobs working less than 30 hours per week."

"Under the health care law, if a company has more than 50 “full time equivalent” workers, a combination of full and part-time employees, but doesn’t offer “affordable” coverage that meets the government’s minimum value standard, the company will have to pay a penalty. This penalty is determined by the number of full-time employees minus 30 full-time employees. So to reiterate a very important point: part-time workers are not part of the penalty formula. The health care law creates a perverse incentive to hire part-time versus full-time workers."

Tangible examples of Obamacare causing a reduction in full-time workers:

Darden Restaurants

According to the Orlando Sentinel, Darden Restaurants, a casual dining chain best known for their Red Lobster, Olive Garden and LongHorn Steakhouse restaurants, is "experimenting with limiting the hours of some of its workers to avoid health care requirements under the Affordable Care Act when they take effect in 2014".

JANCOA Janitorial Services

The CEO of JANCOA, Mary Miller, testified to Congress that Obamacare was a "dream killer", adding that one option she had to consider "is reducing the majority of my team members to part-time employment in order to reduce the amount that I will be penalized."

Kroger

The American retailer in Cincinnati, Ohio recently was reported to be planning a significant slashing of their hourly workers. Doug Ross writes:

Operative Faith (a mid-level manager with the company) reveals that Kroger will soon join the ranks of Darden Restaurants and slash the hours of its non-exempt (hourly) workers to avoid millions in Obamacare penalties.

According to the source, Obamacare could result in tens of thousands of Kroger employees being limited to working 28 hours per week.

Summary

This is by no means, meant to be an exhaustive list. But it is meant to provide examples of real companies, real jobs, and real names, soon to be added to the growing list of employment casualties provided by the inevitable implementation of Obamacare.

Last night, America voted for four more years of President Obama and his destructive economic and health care policies. By extension, America last night voted their approval of the aforementioned layoffs and overall work reduction.

Now we must accept the inevitable. Welcome to mourning in America.

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/grusbf5/good-morning-america-heres-those-layoffs-you-voted

[GBMelBlount]

This is tragic...

Fortunately the libertarians, who are ecstatic over Romney's defeat, have another 4 years to build a base and actually find a suitable libertarian to take over America and turn things around through....gridlock?

[zulater]

Obamacare is the single worst piece of legislation ever drafted in American history and it's consequences will reverberate for generations.

[Seven]

I know four people who all work for the same company, same building. All four were laid off the morning after election day as a direct result of Obama being re-elected (Obamacare).

[steeldawg]

Why would this have to do with the election? Obamacare has been in place already and its not like romney was getting rid of it.

[Seven]

Why would this have to do with the election? Obamacare has been in place already and its not like romney was getting rid of it.

Obamacare hasn't been fully implemented. If anyone other than Obama would have been elected, there at least was a chance the program would eventually be repealed. But under Obama, companies know that they have at minimum another four years of this - and many of them can't afford it. Between it and Dodd-Frank, unemployment is going to rise at a rate I don't think we've yet seen.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend a lot of people don't benefit from Obamacare, because there are many who do - including people in my immediate family. But these two policies are going to kill the "free" market.

[stillers4me]

Romney stated one day one, he would give the states and "opt out" option and then begin legislation on a new bill that wouldn't be so dextructive to the economy and work force. He said he would keep some the better stuff in the bill, like the pre existing condition clause.

You blew it, America.

[Seven]

Romney stated one day one, he would give the states and "opt out" option and then begin legislation on a new bill that wouldn't be so dextructive to the economy and work force. He said he would keep some the better stuff in the bill, like the pre existing condition clause.

You blew it, America.

But Romney is out of touch! He wouldn't possibly have supported any type of legislation that would have helped anyone but millionaires! :rolleyes:

[steeldawg]

Obamacare hasn't been fully implemented. If anyone other than Obama would have been elected, there at least was a chance the program would eventually be repealed. But under Obama, companies know that they have at minimum another four years of this - and many of them can't afford it. Between it and Dodd-Frank, unemployment is going to rise at a rate I don't think we've yet seen.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend a lot of people don't benefit from Obamacare, because there are many who do - including people in my immediate family. But these two policies are going to kill the "free" market.

From my understanding If companies already offer healthcare nothing really changes for them, so i dont see really where it will kill the free market.

[Seven]

From my understanding If companies already offer healthcare nothing really changes for them, so i dont see really where it will kill the free market.

Nothing changes for them? Lol. Sure it probably has an even bigger impact on small businesses, but even huge employers are going to feel the heat. Companies that choose to keep their own insurance partnerships instead of rolling with what the federal government tells them to purchase are going to be heavily penalized. And individual policies will be 30% - 47% more expensive by 2016 than they would have been without Obamacare (that's according to Jon Gruber, one of Obamacare's designers).

And as far as growing companies that don't yet offer healthcare, why start? Why expand your company when it will have a negative impact on your bottom line?

Basically, Obamacare stifles business which kills jobs. Like I said, I won't pretend like there aren't benefits to it too, but economically, it's a major obstacle.

[steeldawg]

Nothing changes for them? Lol. Sure it probably has an even bigger impact on small businesses, but even huge employers are going to feel the heat. Companies that choose to keep their own insurance partnerships instead of rolling with what the federal government tells them to purchase are going to be heavily penalized. And individual policies will be 30% - 47% more expensive by 2016 than they would have been without Obamacare (that's according to Jon Gruber, one of Obamacare's designers).

And as far as growing companies that don't yet offer healthcare, why start? Why expand your company when it will have a negative impact on your bottom line?

Basically, Obamacare stifles business which kills jobs. Like I said, I won't pretend like there aren't benefits to it too, but economically, it's a major obstacle.

No if a company is already offering health insurance they get to keep it no penalty, obamacare doesnt force the company to switch to goverment healthcare. If thats the attitude why would any company start offering healthcare ? Healthcare costs companies an arm and a leg, if they were thinking about offering it obamacare wouldnt deter them from it because it not like its more expensive than exsisting health care.

[Seven]

No if a company is already offering health insurance they get to keep it no penalty, obamacare doesnt force the company to switch to goverment healthcare. If thats the attitude why would any company start offering healthcare ? Healthcare costs companies an arm and a leg, if they were thinking about offering it obamacare wouldnt deter them from it because it not like its more expensive than exsisting health care.

We have differing information on the first point, so hopefully you're right.

But as far as the section of your post I highlighted, that's insane. It's going to be exponentially more expensive than healthcare was before. With things such as contraception, obesity and the morning after pill being tackled by Obamacare, how the hell do you think it isn't going to be any more costly? I just gave you this quote in my last post.


And individual policies will be 30% - 47% more expensive by 2016 than they would have been without Obamacare (that's according to Jon Gruber, one of Obamacare's designers).

[Godfather]

From my understanding If companies already offer healthcare nothing really changes for them, so i dont see really where it will kill the free market.

Obamacare makes those policies more expensive with all the coverage mandates.

The medical device manufacturers are REALLY getting hammered. Taxng medical devices is one of the most morally repugnant aspects of this law. It basically means the feds are punishing sick people by making the devices they need more expensive. (Covidien is also a medical supply manufacturer and they were on the OP
s list.) Then you add in the fact that one of Obamacare's goals is to make sure providers are paid less, and then add in that their labor costs are going up, and it's a triple whammy.

It makes sense to announce the layoffs now because Mittens MIGHT have been different. If that turns out to be the case, great. If not, you can afford to hold on for another six months to a year and find out. But if you're in trouble and you know nothing will change until at least 2017, you have to pull the trigger on layoffs.

[Godfather]

Obamacare hasn't been fully implemented. If anyone other than Obama would have been elected, there at least was a chance the program would eventually be repealed. But under Obama, companies know that they have at minimum another four years of this - and many of them can't afford it. Between it and Dodd-Frank, unemployment is going to rise at a rate I don't think we've yet seen.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend a lot of people don't benefit from Obamacare, because there are many who do - including people in my immediate family. But these two policies are going to kill the "free" market.

:cheers:

That's the difference I've noticed between the left and right over the past four years. You at least recognize that SOME good will come from the law, and you're capable of seeing other people's perspectives.

Obamacare fans, on the other hand, refuse to acknowledge anyone else's concerns. I've noticed this on my Facebook feed and on multiple message boards. It's just "teabagger u want to let people die in the gutter har har"...I haven't seen ONE Obamacare supporter acknowledge that a lot of little people are going to be directly harmed by this law. (Libs who opposed the law are a different story...they see it as corporate welfare).

[Seven]

:cheers:

That's the difference I've noticed between the left and right over the past four years. You at least recognize that SOME good will come from the law, and you're capable of seeing other people's perspectives.

Obamacare fans, on the other hand, refuse to acknowledge anyone else's concerns. I've noticed this on my Facebook feed and on multiple message boards. It's just "teabagger u want to let people die in the gutter har har"...I haven't seen ONE Obamacare supporter acknowledge that a lot of little people are going to be directly harmed by this law. (Libs who opposed the law are a different story...they see it as corporate welfare).

I'm pretty much as Republican as they come as far as economic issues, but failing to acknowledge that these programs do get passed for a reason is foolish, even if I think they do more harm than good.

I think more than anything this country is hurt by stupid citizens who can't think for themselves - on both sides of the fence. I won't go quite as far as Goslash or Wallace108 do as far as being a proponent of a revolutionary style overhaul to the system, but I guess even though I'm a registered Republican I see the value in thinking independantly.

To me it seems like 80% of this country will cheerlead whoever their favorite candidate is without so much as spending ten minutes on Google to figure out what they are actually supporting. Another 18% say "it doesn't matter who wins they are all the same" which probably pisses me off even more because it couldn't be further from the truth and is the lazy way out of having to pay attention. And the last 2% - and that might even be generous - are well informed voters. I like to think of myself as someone who falls into the last category, or at least tries to.

I voted for Barack Obama in 2008 because I believed he was a serious reformer who could implement the best ideas from the Democratic party without communizing the nation. And now I'm smart enough to admit I was wrong. I think that's part of the problem. Most Americans are too egotistical to admit they were wrong and that it's time to make a change. And as a result we now have liberals who are trying to say Obamacare is a good thing not only for healthcare, but for the economy?

Here's to being one of very few reasonable political observers; throw your two cents in more often. :drink:

[steeldawg]

We have differing information on the first point, so hopefully you're right.

But as far as the section of your post I highlighted, that's insane. It's going to be exponentially more expensive than healthcare was before. With things such as contraception, obesity and the morning after pill being tackled by Obamacare, how the hell do you think it isn't going to be any more costly? I just gave you this quote in my last post.

Funny you mention gruber because hes also was on romneycare. I saw the quote the problem is there is alot of information on both sides of the coin as far as whats going to happen nobody seems to have an answer. The businesses i see it posing a problem to are the ones that 50 fulltime employees but dont offer healthcare, they will be the ones that will have decisions to make. These large companies that have health insurance it should not effect all that much , even if premiums rise businesses will be able to shop cheaper plans on the exchange, really should be no reason for massive layoffs. I think what you could see happening in the future is businesses just paying the $2000 fine instead of offering health insurance and people will just have to shop for their own plans on the exchange. with the average cost annually per employee reaching $15000 healthcare $2000 dollar fine looks pretty good from the employers end.

[Wallace108]

I think more than anything this country is hurt by stupid citizens who can't think for themselves - on both sides of the fence. I won't go quite as far as Goslash or Wallace108 do as far as being a proponent of a revolutionary style overhaul to the system, but I guess even though I'm a registered Republican I see the value in thinking independantly.

Huh? If demanding that they follow the Constitution is considered "revolutionary style overhaul," then yeah, I guess. :noidea:

[Seven]

Funny you mention gruber because hes also was on romneycare. I saw the quote the problem is there is alot of information on both sides of the coin as far as whats going to happen nobody seems to have an answer. The businesses i see it posing a problem to are the ones that 50 fulltime employees but dont offer healthcare, they will be the ones that will have decisions to make. These large companies that have health insurance it should not effect all that much , even if premiums rise businesses will be able to shop cheaper plans on the exchange, really should be no reason for massive layoffs. I think would you could see happening in the future is businesses just paying the $2000 fine instead of offering health insurance and people will just have to shop for their own plans on the exchange. with the average cost annually per employee reach 15000 healthcare $2000 dollar fine looks pretty good from the employers end.

I disagree with a few things there, but even if I didn't and all of that is ture. I would ask you this, if basically nothing is going to change, as you seem to be suggesting - why implement the policy in the first place? If the market is going to stay relatively the same, and the only difference is a few more bills in the federal governments pocket, why do you support Obamacare? Because if that's the case it isn't doing any good.

Also, Romneycare is at the state level. It's a whole other ballgame federally which is why the argument that he would have simply kept Obamacare was never valid.

- - - Updated - - -


Huh? If demanding that they follow the Constitution is considered "revolutionary style overhaul," then yeah, I guess.

Perhaps I'm referring more to GoSlash there, but aren't you an advocate of major changes to the current governmental system? Fundamentally.

[Wallace108]

Perhaps I'm referring more to GoSlash there, but aren't you an advocate of major changes to the current governmental system? Fundamentally.

Our system is corrupt and broken. We don't need a "revolutionary style" overhaul ... we just need officials who will follow the Constitution and represent us like they're supposed to. Does that explanation suit you? :wink02:

[steeldawg]

I disagree with a few things there, but even if I didn't and all of that is ture. I would ask you this, if basically nothing is going to change, as you seem to be suggesting - why implement the policy in the first place? If the market is going to stay relatively the same, and the only difference is a few more bills in the federal governments pocket, why do you support Obamacare? Because if that's the case it isn't doing any good.

- - - Updated - - -



Perhaps I'm referring more to GoSlash there, but aren't you an advocate of major changes to the current governmental system? Fundamentally.

I dont support obamacare. I didnt say nothing will change of course some things will change, but for large companies who already offer insurance they get to keep the same plan, thats not an opinion thats in the law. The reform was implemented in order to curb healthcare costs overtime, if you thought our healthcare system was in good shape and was cost friendly to businesses your mistaken. Like i said the big decisions will be for companies who have 50 fulltime employees and do not offer healthcare.

[Seven]

Our system is corrupt and broken. We don't need a "revolutionary style" overhaul ... we just need officials who will follow the Constitution and represent us like they're supposed to. Does that explanation suit you? :wink02:

Okay, that's a little less radical a change than I perceived you were in favor of, my apologies.

I think that the problem goes deeper than that, though. Yes, we need better officials to represent what we the people belive in, but I think most citizens do just as poor of a job at familiarizing themselves with the issues as the politicians do familiarizing themselves with the constituencies.

- - - Updated - - -


I dont support obamacare. I didnt say nothing will change of course some things will change, but for large companies who already offer insurance they get to keep the same plan, thats not an opinion thats in the law. The reform was implemented in order to curb healthcare costs overtime, if you thought our healthcare system was in good shape and was cost friendly to businesses your mistaken. Like i said the big decisions will be for companies who have 50 fulltime employees and do not offer healthcare.

By curbing healthcare costs you mean raising them? If the federal government wanted to curb healthcare costs all they would have needed to do was offer a cheaper alternative to make the insurance companies in the private sector lower prices in order to compete. They didn't need to mandate something like Obamacare which encompasses ridiculous things like contraception into its expanding repertoire.

I keep seeing you say things like "I don't support Obamacare" and "Obama didn't fix the economy" in all of your posts yet you keep showing up to support the President and his policies. I'm not quite sure where you stand because if you don't think he has had a positive impact on the economy why are you basically the only poster on this board who shows up in every thread to argue in his favor? I don't get it.

[Godfather]

I'm pretty much as Republican as they come as far as economic issues, but failing to acknowledge that these programs do get passed for a reason is foolish, even if I think they do more harm than good.

I think more than anything this country is hurt by stupid citizens who can't think for themselves - on both sides of the fence. I won't go quite as far as Goslash or Wallace108 do as far as being a proponent of a revolutionary style overhaul to the system, but I guess even though I'm a registered Republican I see the value in thinking independantly.

To me it seems like 80% of this country will cheerlead whoever their favorite candidate is without so much as spending ten minutes on Google to figure out what they are actually supporting. Another 18% say "it doesn't matter who wins they are all the same" which probably pisses me off even more because it couldn't be further from the truth and is the lazy way out of having to pay attention. And the last 2% - and that might even be generous - are well informed voters. I like to think of myself as someone who falls into the last category, or at least tries to.

I voted for Barack Obama in 2008 because I believed he was a serious reformer who could implement the best ideas from the Democratic party without communizing the nation. And now I'm smart enough to admit I was wrong. I think that's part of the problem. Most Americans are too egotistical to admit they were wrong and that it's time to make a change. And as a result we now have liberals who are trying to say Obamacare is a good thing not only for healthcare, but for the economy?

Here's to being one of very few reasonable political observers; throw your two cents in more often. :drink:

Thanks. I'm actually one of the least Republican posters around here. My first presidential vote was Bill Clinton, and I've never voted for an R for governor, Senator, or Representative (although I'm not voting for a Democrat for Congress again until they show me something different form the past 6 years...I went all third parties this time.) Some of those votes turned out to be mistakes, like Kathleen Blanco being useless in a crisis, or Mary Landrieu and John Breaux selling out.

I just don't want to see the federal government inserting itself into K-12 education policy or restricting consumer choice. The best thing to do is to give people as many options as possible so they can choose the best path for themselves. The worst thing to do is dictate a narrow set of choices because that will shortchange millions of people. Unfortunately Chimpy was almost as bad as Obaaaaaaaaaaama when it came to those issues.

[Seven]

Thanks. I'm actually one of the least Republican posters around here. My first presidential vote was Bill Clinton, and I've never voted for an R for governor, Senator, or Representative (although I'm not voting for a Democrat for Congress again until they show me something different form the past 6 years...I went all third parties this time.) Some of those votes turned out to be mistakes, like Kathleen Blanco being useless in a crisis, or Mary Landrieu and John Breaux selling out.

I just don't want to see the federal government inserting itself into K-12 education policy or restricting consumer choice. The best thing to do is to give people as many options as possible so they can choose the best path for themselves. The worst thing to do is dictate a narrow set of choices because that will shortchange millions of people. Unfortunately Chimpy was almost as bad as Obaaaaaaaaaaama when it came to those issues.

It seems like everyone I talk to says that, yet come election day the votes never seem to fall that way - at every level of government. That's something I can't seem to make heads or tails of.

[steeldawg]

Okay, that's a little less radical a change than I perceived you were in favor of, my apologies.

I think that the problem goes deeper than that, though. Yes, we need better officials to represent what we the people belive in, but I think most citizens do just as poor of a job at familiarizing themselves with the issues as the politicians do familiarizing themselves with the constituencies.

- - - Updated - - -



By curbing healthcare costs you mean raising them? If the federal government wanted to curb healthcare costs all they would have needed to do was offer a cheaper alternative to make the insurance companies in the private sector lower prices in order to compete. They didn't need to mandate something like Obamacare which encompasses ridiculous things like contraception into its expanding repertoire.

I keep seeing you say things like "I don't support Obamacare" and "Obama didn't fix the economy" in all of your posts yet you keep showing up to support the President and his policies. I'm not quite sure where you stand because if you don't think he has had a positive impact on the economy why are you basically the only poster on this board who shows up in every thread to argue in his favor? I don't get it.

What did i say that supports obamacare??? it curbs the cost overtime, the reason the cost is so high now and continues to rise is population continues to rise and people live longer. When more people dont have insurance the cost to help these people ends up on the shoulders of those who do pay insurance which causes costs to rise. So the idea was to get the unisured insured to curb costs in a healthcare system that woulld of eventually collapsed on itself.

[Seven]

What did i say that supports obamacare???


it curbs the cost overtime, the reason the cost is so high now and continues to rise is population continues to rise and people live longer. When more people dont have insurance the cost to help these people ends up on the shoulders of those who do pay insurance which causes costs to rise. So the idea was to get the unisured insured to curb costs in a healthcare system that woulld of eventually collapsed on itself.

...

[ALLD]

Boeing is enacting layoffs due to the drop in defense spending. They are one of our largest exporters too.

[steeldawg]

...

Thats not supporting, if you read what it was in response too you would see that. You asked why was the law implemented in the first place, and that all they had to do was provide a cheaper option. I just explained to you why it was implemented, then with just providing another option is it does nothing to lower the cost of care. It does no good to simply lower the price of insurance if it doesnt cover the care.

[Seven]

Thats not supporting, if you read what it was in response too you would see that. You asked why was the law implemented in the first place, and that all they had to do was provide a cheaper option. I just explained to you why it was implemented, the with just providing another option is it does nothing to lower the cost of care. It does no good to simply lower the price of insurance if it doesnt cover the care.

So are you saying it works or not? I read the response. Three times to try and understand what you're trying to say. In one sentence you say you don't support it, the next you claim it stops the healthcare market from collapsing. Either I'm going insane or you are contradicting yourself. Can someone please point out to me what I'm missing here?

[steeldawg]

So are you saying it works or not? I read the response. Three times to try and understand what you're trying to say. In one sentence you say you don't support it, the next you claim it stops the healthcare market from collapsing. Either I'm going insane or you are contradicting yourself. Can someone please point out to me what I'm missing here?

I dont know if it works, neither do you. I didnt say its stops anything, the system needed reform because it eventually will collapse and this is the reform they implemented. You asked why they implemented the law in the first place and thats why. Will it work? Will it not work? I have no idea. There is nothing contradicting about what im saying, im just looking at the law objectively. I could sit here because i dont agree with it and say it will cause massive job loss businesses to shut their doors, but there is nothing to support that.

[Seven]

I dont know if it works, neither do you. I didnt say its stops anything, the system needed reform because it eventually will collapse and this is the reform they implemented. You asked why they implemented the law in the first place and thats why. Will it work? Will it not work? I have no idea. There is nothing contradicting about what im saying, im just looking at the law objectively. I could sit here because i dont agree with it and say it will cause massive job loss businesses to shut their doors, but there is nothing to support that.


it curbs the cost overtime

Was I wrong to take that statement as a projection of fact?

It just seems like you're saying it's going to lower insurance costs, yet you don't support it. Which doesn't make any sense to me. If something works why wouldn't you support it?

But judging from your last post, you're now saying it might work, but you aren't sure? If that's the case then fine. It has just seemed like for half a dozen posts now that you were claiming it's going to work. I apologize if I misunderstood.

[steeldawg]

Was I wrong to take that statement as a projection of fact?

It just seems like you're saying it's going to lower insurance costs, yet you don't support it. Which doesn't make any sense to me. If something works why wouldn't you support it?

But judging from your last post, you're now saying it might work, but you aren't sure? If that's the case then fine. It has just seemed like for half a dozen posts now that you were claiming it's going to work. I apologize if I misunderstood.

No im telling you thats what it is designed to do, you think they implemented reform to raise costs? I never once said it would work, saying that the design of the reform is to curb costs is very different from me saying that it will.

[st33lersguy]

Don't blame me, I voted for Romney

[Mach1]

No im telling you thats what it is designed to do, you think they implemented reform to raise costs? I never once said it would work, saying that the design of the reform is to curb costs is very different from me saying that it will.

I'm assuming you have a job, a job that pays for your insurance. At the end of the year that employee provided benefit will be added to your gross income and you get the privilege of paying taxes on it. Enjoy.

[steeldawg]

I'm assuming you have a job, a job that pays for your insurance. At the end of the year that employee provided benefit will be added to your gross income and you get the privilege of paying taxes on it. Enjoy.

Im self employed, Im not sure what employee provided benefit your talking about? If your saying healthcare benefits will be added in and taxed, i dont think thats accurate. any taxes on the benefits do not start till 2018 and they are for employer provided "Cadillac" health care plans, also only levied on insurers not individuals.

[GBMelBlount]

Papa John's CEO John Schnatter Says Company Will Reduce Workers' Hours In Response To Obamacare

Others have responded to the added costs of Obamacare more harshly, including Applebee's which has said it won’t hire new workers because of the law.

Just this week, a Georgia business owner also claimed he cut employees due to Obamacare and in fact had specifically laid off those who he thought had voted for President Obama.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/papa-johns-obamacare-john-schnatter_n_2104202.html


Good for them.

This is what happens when an ignorant and incompetent community organizer with no business experience tries to solve problems by shoving costs down business owners' throats.

[Mach1]

Im self employed, Im not sure what employee provided benefit your talking about? If your saying healthcare benefits will be added in and taxed, i dont think thats accurate. any taxes on the benefits do not start till 2018 and they are for employer provided "Cadillac" health care plans, also only levied on insurers not individuals.

I own a business and it started last year actually. Check box 11,13 or 14 on the W2's if I remember right.

And no it does not only apply to "Cadillac plans". Yes it is added to the employees income at the end of the year.

[steeldawg]

I own a business and it started last year actually. Check box 11,13 or 14 on the W2's if I remember right.

Ya its listed on there for info puposes its not added in and then taxed 2011 was the first year they started actually listing it on the W2's.

[Seven]

Good for them.

This is what happens when an ignorant and incompetent community organizer with no business experience tries to solve problems by shoving costs down business owners' throats.

Another excellent post.

This is what happens when you decide to hand the country over to an attorney.

[steeldawg]

The CEO of papa johns is a bit of a prick. This guy is a multi millionaire, with health insurance and hes bitching about providing health insurance for his employees who make on average maybe $10 an hr because he will have to raise the price of a pizza 15 cents, ohh the hardship. So instead of taking it from profit or even adding 15 cents to a pizza hes going to cut the workers hours and this doesnt bother anyone here, instead gets a good for him?

[zulater]

I'm guessing within two years were facing 10% unemployment, and much of the increase will be attribuatable to the implementation of Obamacare.

- - - Updated - - -


The CEO of papa johns is a bit of a prick. This guy is a multi millionaire, with health insurance and hes bitching about providing health insurance for his employees who make on average maybe $10 an hr because he will have to raise the price of a pizza 15 cents, ohh the hardship.

Oh yeah passing the price on to the consumer always works. Because you know we all have an endless supply of money to buy food and consumer goods with. All those 15 cents for this that and the other wont worsen inflation at all.

[Mach1]

I'm guessing within two years were facing 10% unemployment, and much of the increase will be attribuatable to the implementation of Obamacare.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh yeah passing the price on to the consumer always works. Because you know we all have an endless supply of money to buy food and consumer goods with. All those 15 cents for this that and the other wont worsen inflation at all.

Then on paper the company made more income and therefore is more evil and taxed accordingly.

My business I have less than 50 employees but it's in the medical field and we still get hammered by obaaamacare.

[steeldawg]

Then on paper the company made more income and therefore is more evil and taxed accordingly.

My business I have less than 50 employees but it's in the medical field and we still get hammered by obaaamacare.

Equipment tax?

[GBMelBlount]

The CEO of papa johns is a bit of a prick. This guy is a multi millionaire

Take from those based on their ability and give to those according to need.

I don't think there is a liberal out there who could have summed up the basis for liberalism in America today better than you just did.

Good job.

[Seven]

The CEO of papa johns is a bit of a prick. This guy is a multi millionaire, with health insurance and hes bitching about providing health insurance for his employees who make on average maybe $10 an hr because he will have to raise the price of a pizza 15 cents, ohh the hardship. So instead of taking it from profit or even adding 15 cents to a pizza hes going to cut the workers hours and this doesnt bother anyone here, instead gets a good for him?

Papa John is in the private sector. It's not his job to take care of the country, it's Obama's. I'm not saying these guys aren't assholes. I worked for a huge industry leading business for a while and our CEO visited our office from across country several times. The guy was a douchebag. But even so, his job is to make money for the company; not to care about employees who make minmum wage. And the suits are only going to have more anymosity towards their workers now that the federal government mandates they provide them with more.

[steeldawg]

I'm guessing within two years were facing 10% unemployment, and much of the increase will be attribuatable to the implementation of Obamacare.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh yeah passing the price on to the consumer always works. Because you know we all have an endless supply of money to buy food and consumer goods with. All those 15 cents for this that and the other wont worsen inflation at all.

Thats what it would cost him he could do 15 cents in in fewer toppings maybe buy cheaper reciept paper, maybe cheaper name tags or shirts, lots of ways to make up 15 cents a pie. So your ok with the workers losing their hours as long as you can pay 15 cents less for your pizza?

[Mach1]

Equipment tax?

That and Medicaid, medical supplies, regulations. Prices on somethings has almost doubled over the last two years.

And I can't pass along the costs or cut corners. If I raise prices I price myself out of the market and if I cut corners and get caught I get shut down.

[Seven]

Thats what it would cost him he could do 15 cents in in fewer toppings maybe buy cheaper reciept paper, maybe cheaper name tags or shirts, lots of ways to make up 15 cents a pie. So your ok with the workers losing their hours as long as you can pay 15 cents less for your pizza?


NO. And that's why Obamacare is shit. Because it's directly causing harsher conditions for workers which leads to less pay which leads to more dependency on the government. It's a sick cycle the likes of which I've never seen before in this country.

[steeldawg]

Papa John is in the private sector. It's not his job to take care of the country, it's Obama's. I'm not saying these guys aren't assholes. I worked for a huge industry leading business for a while and our CEO visited our office from across country several times. The guy was a douchebag. But even so, his job is to make money for the company; not to care about employees who make minmum wage. And the suits are only going to have more anymosity towards their workers now that the federal government mandates they provide them with more.

I didnt say it was his job to take care of anybody, i said hes a prick!! It is the job of the CEO to care about his employees regardless of there salary, Happy employees provide good service and keep customers coming back. If the employees are miserable their work will reflect it or you run the risk of losing good employees to better companies.

[Seven]

I didnt say it was his job to take care of anybody, i said hes a prick!! It is the job of the CEO to care about his employees regardless of there salary, Happy employees provide good service and keep customers coming back. If the employees are miserable their work will reflect it or you run the risk of losing good employees to better companies.

No it's not. It's his job to make a profit. The other stuff is great for employees who work under such CEO's, but don't pretend it's their "job" to take care of the employees. It's the governments job to care for citizens.

What better companies? Because of Obamacare there aren't going to be any new companies!

[zulater]

Thats what it would cost him he could do 15 cents in in fewer toppings maybe buy cheaper reciept paper, maybe cheaper name tags or shirts, lots of ways to make up 15 cents a pie. So your ok with the workers losing their hours as long as you can pay 15 cents less for your pizza?

Trust me, it's going to cost way more than 15 cents per pizza to keep the same amount of full time employees when Obamacare is fully implemented. Especially once some employees make a medical claim.

You ever going to admit you're left of Chris Mathews, and have an Obama night light? :wink02:

[Godfather]

That and Medicaid, medical supplies, regulations. Prices on somethings has almost doubled over the last two years.

And I can't pass along the costs or cut corners. If I raise prices I price myself out of the market and if I cut corners and get caught I get shut down.

In reality, you're getting it three ways:

1) Obaaaaaaaaaaaamacare was "balanced" on the backs of seniors. Less reimbursement from Medicare (and from insurers) squeezes you at the front end.

2) Equipment tax raises your product costs.

3) Coverage mandates raise the cost of insuring your own employees.

[zulater]

In reality, you're getting it three ways:

1) Obaaaaaaaaaaaamacare was "balanced" on the backs of seniors. Less reimbursement from Medicare (and from insurers) squeezes you at the front end.

2) Equipment tax raises your product costs.

3) Coverage mandates raise the cost of insuring your own employees.

Insuance companies are going to make out like bandits on Obamacare.

[steeldawg]

NO. And that's why Obamacare is shit. Because it's directly causing harsher conditions for workers which leads to less pay which leads to more dependency on the government. It's a sick cycle the likes of which I've never seen before in this country. The condition is not that harsh thats the point papa johns did 1.22 billion in revenue last year. Even if papa johns chose to pay the fine for all 14000 employees it would be 28 million, however the company is not responsible to provide healthcare for partime employees only fulltime, Now i do not know the number of partime employees papa johns has but its certainly is alot. You can make the case that its his business he can do whatever he wants but 15 cents extra for a pizza seems a pretty small price to provide a healthcare plan to your employees.

- - - Updated - - -


Trust me, it's going to cost way more than 15 cents per pizza to keep the same amount of full time employees when Obamacare is fully implemented. Especially once some employees make a medical claim.

You ever going to admit you're left of Chris Mathews, and have an Obama night light? :wink02: actually papa johns projected 11 to 14 cents i said 15 cents just to round it off. Im not left I just understand what being a business owner means and taking care of your employees.

[Count Steeler]

The condition is not that harsh thats the point papa johns did 1.22 billion in revenue last year. Even if papa johns chose to pay the fine for all 14000 employees it would be 28 million, however the company is not responsible to provide healthcare for partime employees only fulltime, Now i do not know the number of partime employees papa johns has but its certainly is alot. You can make the case that its his business he can do whatever he wants but 15 cents extra for a pizza seems a pretty small price to provide a healthcare plan to your employees.

Hmm. Let me guess. They will soon be offering their full timers a package or the option to become part timers.

[Mach1]

In reality, you're getting it three ways:

1) Obaaaaaaaaaaaamacare was "balanced" on the backs of seniors. Less reimbursement from Medicare (and from insurers) squeezes you at the front end.

2) Equipment tax raises your product costs.

3) Coverage mandates raise the cost of insuring your own employees.


I have a feeling thats just the tip of the iceberg.


Insuance companies are going to make out like bandits on Obamacare.

They already are for now.
Thats where open competition would be good, open it up to compete across state lines.

But whats going to happen to private insurance is they will be pushed out and all we're left with is the government plan. There will no longer be a private insurance carriers.

[steeldawg]

Hmm. Let me guess. They will soon be offering their full timers a package or the option to become part timers.

Well he said they were going to cut workers hours, i guess thats a better solution than putting a couple less pepperonis on the pizzas

[Seven]

The condition is not that harsh thats the point papa johns did 1.22 billion in revenue last year. Even if papa johns chose to pay the fine for all 14000 employees it would be 28 million, however the company is not responsible to provide healthcare for partime employees only fulltime, Now i do not know the number of partime employees papa johns has but its certainly is alot. You can make the case that its his business he can do whatever he wants but 15 cents extra for a pizza seems a pretty small price to provide a healthcare plan to your employees.

You're missing the point. I only continued using Papa John's as an example because it's the company you brought up.

You have actual business owners on this thread, as well as people with plenty of experience working for big business in the private sector, telling you otherwise, yet you still insist "the condition is not that harsh"... despite the fact that you just said "I don't support Obamacare" on the previous page of this topic. I don't understand what your motivation for posting is unless you are here to support Obamacare.

[steeldawg]

You're missing the point. I only continued using Papa John's as an example because it's the company you brought up.

You have actual business owners on this thread, as well as people with plenty of experience working for big business in the private sector, telling you otherwise, yet you still insist "the condition is not that harsh"... despite the fact that you just said "I don't support Obamacare" on the previous page of this topic. I don't understand what your motivation for posting is unless you are here to support Obamacare.

I am a business owner, so please dont lecture me, I also ran multi million dollar big box retail stores for 9 years my resume is long enough to speak on the subject. I dont support Obamacare i didnt vote for obama im not a democrat. Im also not the sky is falling panic button type of guy, Im simply pointing out things about the law rather than just bashing it, if you want to call that support i dont know what else to tell you knock yourself out. You still have to point out to me where i supported obamacare or even said it was good for business. If someone posts something about obamacare thats not factually correct i will chime in, thats not support and as a business owner its important for me to understand the law and how it affects me.

[silver & black]

You ever going to admit you're left of Chris Mathews, and have an Obama night light?

I LOLed. :sofunny:

[Mach1]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/302715_4262572515204_1378933620_n.jpg

[zulater]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/302715_4262572515204_1378933620_n.jpg

:applaudit: I want that on a t-shirt!

[Wallace108]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/302715_4262572515204_1378933620_n.jpg

That's a brilliant illustration of the hypocrisy of the class warfare being waged by liberals.

[The WH]

Obamacare is the single worst piece of legislation ever drafted in American history and it's consequences will reverberate for generations.

i can name 4 off the top of my head that are easily worse.
4. Patriot Act
3. Federal Reserve Act of 1913
2. Nixon Legislation that removed the $ from the gold standard
1. Social Security Act of 1933.

Just wait until the "Healthcare Bubble" pops....then we're all fucked.

[Count Steeler]

Well the DJIA is certainly not giving Obama any vote of confidence. Down over 600 points since the election. 4.5% in one week.

[Mach1]

While NBC is telling you how strong and robust the economy is they layoff 500 people.

Can't wait to see what January brings.


More Layoffs Announced, Including 500 At NBC, Citibank, And One Huge Obama Donor’s Medical Company

Update: Additional layoff announcements have been added to this story at the end of the post.

In just the first three days of this week, we have seen an alarming rise in announcements from some very large corporations like, NBC, Citibank, Xerox, and most of the Atlantic City Casinos. Also among the latest to announce downsizing, many municipalities are cutting back staff in service areas like hospice care, housing for domestic abuse victims, and even fire departments.

In some cases, the companies have cited the President’s second term and the tax implications from Obamacare as reason for this action, while others have tied their cutbacks to some of the administration’s restrictive regulations. And there are others on the latest list that may have been actions taken due to bad business practices or the companies were “collateral damage” — businesses that were hurt when larger operations in their area cut back or closed

One of the biggest medical device manufacturers in the world, Stryker will close their facility in Orchard Park, New York, eliminating 96 jobs in December. Worse, they plan on countering the medical device tax in Obamacare by slashing 5% of their global workforce - an estimated 1,170 positions.

Stryker, a member of the Forbes 400 list, was one of the top five donors to the Obama campaign. Having donated $2 million to the Priorities USA Action super PAC, Stryker also gave $66,000 in contributions to Obama and the Democrat Party.

Here is the list of domestic layoffs compiled by DailyJobCuts.com since Monday of this week:

NBCUniversal – 500

In a round of year-end belt tightening, NBCUniversal is cutting about 500 employees, or about 1.5% of its total workforce. The cuts are distributed throughout the media company, which boasts nearly 30,000 employees, according to a person close to the situation who asked not to be identified discussing the sensitive topic.



Xerox Corp. – 2,500

On Tuesday, Xerox provided some sketchy details of that restructuring: By the end of the year, 2,500 current employees will be former employees.



Citigroup Inc. – 100 in Long Island NY

Citigroup Inc., the third-biggest U.S. bank, is dismissing 100 people on New York’s Long Island as the lender seeks to cut costs amid a slump in revenue.



Atlantic City’s Casinos – Workers Face Layoffs After Sandy

ATLANTIC CITY — While gaming numbers in our area have been sluggish in recent months, the situation has intensified since hurricane sandy, and now more and more casino workers are looking at a cut in hours or even partial or permanent lay offs.

Update: Smithfield Foods Inc. Meat Plant VA – Starting Layoffs

The Smithfield, Va.-based company said layoffs will start at the Portsmouth plant in January and it will close at the end of March. The first layoffs at the Smithfield Packing Co. facility will involve about 120 workers, with more than 400 workers affected by the time plant is closed, said Jeff Gough, Smithfield’s senior vice president for human resources. Employees have been offered transfer opportunities.



Update: Cummins – Starts Layoffs in Indiana

Layoff notices starting going out this week to the engine-maker‘s white-collar workers at its headquaters in Columbus. Job cuts are also expected at Cummins‘ three southern Indiana plants: the Fuel Systems Plant and MidRange Engine Plant in Columbus and the Engine plant in Seymour.



Solel Solar Systems ( International ) – 140+

Three years after acquiring Solel Solar Systems in Beit Shemesh, which produces thermo-solar energy systems, Siemens AG (NYSE: SI; DAX: SIE) is firing about 140 of the company’s 430 employees. In contrast to six months ago when 100 employees were fired, mainly production staff, the latest round of layoffs includes engineering and development personnel, following the company’s decision to close down several major projects.



Pierce Manufacturing in Bradenton – Layoffs begin

Pierce Manufacturing in Bradenton, a subsidiary of the manufacturer of emergency response vehicles Oshkosh, is beginning its first round of layoffs, which will eventually affect 325 workers.



Hostess – 3 Plant Closing = 627 Jobs Lost

The world of Twinkies and Wonder Bread threatened to crumble Monday, as a nationwide strike continued and Hostess Brands Inc., the bankrupt owner of the historic products, said it would close three bakeries, eliminating 627 jobs.



Gamesa Energy – 92 Layoff Notices

Gamesa Energy has issued layoff notices to more than half of its Cambria Township work force. Company officials say 92 of the plant’s 154 workers are expected to be out of work at the plant by early next year.

Update: Wingspan Portfolio Advisors – 459 Possible Layoffs

DALLAS — Wingspan Portfolio Advisors, a Carrollton-based loan servicing company, will layoff more than a quarter of its workforce at the end of the year.

Wake Forest Baptist Medical NC – 950 Positions by June 2013

In a news release, WFBMC said about half of the layoffs will come from “vacant, temporary and contract labor positions, as well as normal attrition and retirements.” As many as 475 current employees — about 3.5 percent of the company’s workforce — will get pink slips. While the staff reductions won’t be complete until next summer, 76 employees are being laid off this week.



Turkey Point Nuclear Plant FL – 277 Layoffs Possible

The 277 employees are to be laid off between Jan. 6 and May 26. The workers include 77 field engineers, 49 superintendents, 44 design engineers and 22 welding field engineers. The employees are not represented by a union. The layoffs are expected to be permanent.



Tooele County UT – 22

For the third time in the last four months Tooele County has announced a reduction of employees as the Tooele County Commission and county department heads scramble to reduce expenses to meet an unforeseen reduction in revenue.



Glens Falls Hospital NY – 29

Glens Falls Hospital announced Tuesday morning it is eliminating 29 jobs and reducing five other employees to part-time status, as part of a cost-reduction program being blamed on “declining reimbursement levels and other economic challenges.”



Bayou Cane, Louisiana – 7 FD Layoffs Likely

The fire chief’s decision to close the station at Savanne Road and Little Bayou Black Drive is the first of several steps intended to make up the money that will be lost when a federal grant expires in 2014. Other planned cuts include laying off seven employees by Jan. 1, eliminating overtime and reducing the number of calls that its trucks respond to each year.



Publishing Firm Lulu in Raleigh – 9

Raleigh-based Lulu, which provides self-publishing services around the world, has made layoffs at its headquarters and other locations. The company is owned by Red Hat co-founder Bob Young. Nine positions were cut in Raleigh and an undisclosed number of positions will be affected at other operations, Lulu said.



Hamilton FD Ohio – Possible 2 Closing – 17 Layoffs

A study by public safety consultants Berkshire Advisors Inc. recommended a number of changes to improve efficiency in the Hamilton Fire Department, including increasing the workweek from 48 to 52 hours. This would reduce staff by nine firefighters and save the city $825,000 in overtime costs, according to the study. The city is projected to spend $1.1 million in overtime costs in 2012.



Dana Corporation – Warns Employees of Poss. Layoffs

TOLEDO, Ohio -Dana Corporation is warning its employees that there could be a large number of layoffs on the way. The Washington Times reports that Dana will likely pay $24 million over the next six years in healthcare expenses and that cost is driving the layoffs.



Mississippi County Arkansas – About 12 Layoffs

The Finance Committee of the Mississippi County Quorum Court slashed $1.5 million from the county’s 2013 budget, which will trigger layoffs of about a dozen employees.



The Commercial Appeal – Another Round of Layoffs?

According to the media-focused blog Mediaverse, The Commercial Appeal has suffered another rounds of layoffs. This time, the cuts involve the advertising department.



The Brattleboro Retreat – 27 Layoffs, 4 Positions Lost

Peter Albert, vice president for external affairs at the Retreat, said management decided to cut positions after reviewing third quarter revenues and expenditures. “Projecting out the fourth quarter, the year would come in at a loss,” he said.



Otsego County NY – 10 Layoffs Possible

As the rough parameters of Otsego County’s 2013 budget take shape, it appears that about 10 county jobs will be eliminated and some public services will be reduced, county Treasurer Dan Crowell said Tuesday.

Late additions to the list from Blaze reader tips.
World Media Enterprises – 105 Jobs Cut

World Media Enterprises Inc., the division created earlier this year by Berkshire Hathaway after it purchased most Media General Inc. newspaper properties, including the Richmond Times-Dispatch, today announced it is eliminating 105 jobs, including 33 related to its decision to shutter the News & Messenger in Manassas.

Reports Of Cuts Coming To GE Healthcare In Vermont

SOUTH BURLINGTON, Vt. - More job cuts at GE Healthcare in South Burlington– though how many is unclear. The Vermont location specializes in developing information technology for the health care industry. About 850 people worked there when GE bought out IDX Systems in 2005. There have been several job cuts since then, including at least two others earlier this year.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/more-layoffs-announced-including-500-at-nbc-citibank-and-one-huge-obama-donors-medical-company/

[GBMelBlount]

...and all Obama has to do is CONTINUE to say this is because of Bush and the wealthy and he will never have responsibility.

When the majority of the country is poorly educated, pays no taxes and gets freebies you really do not need to say much more than that.

Who is John Galt?

[fansince'76]

...and all Obama has to do is CONTINUE to say this is because of Bush and the wealthy and he will never have responsibility.

Yep, though I think the media's blame game will eventually shift to the Republican-controlled House.

[smokin3000gt]

Yep, though I think the media's blame game will eventually shift to the Republican-controlled House.

They've been blaming the House for Obama's entire term of do nothingness. Conveniently forgetting the fact that he had a super majority for most of his 'active' presidency.

[smokin3000gt]

That and Medicaid, medical supplies, regulations. Prices on somethings has almost doubled over the last two years.

And I can't pass along the costs or cut corners. If I raise prices I price myself out of the market and if I cut corners and get caught I get shut down.

This is exactly where we are too Mach. Hopefully steeldawg chimes in and tells us how to better count and spend our money on top of what we can afford to pay. He is like the almighty business Zoltar.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/09/500x_zoltar.jpg

[steeldawg]

This is exactly where we are too Mach. Hopefully steeldawg chimes in and tells us how to better count and spend our money on top of what we can afford to pay. He is like the almighty business Zoltar.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/09/500x_zoltar.jpgI dont know why your attacking me, I never told you how to run your business. Just because im a business owner and i dont share your doom and gloom doesnt mean that im telling you anything about how your affected.