Mike Wallace = No Money.

[Edman]

Brown goes down, Cotchery and Sanders are stepping up, where's Wallace?

Dropping balls, running out of bounds away from Giants Defenders on screens, and running terrible routes as usual. He's blowing it big time.

[polamalubeast]

A game changer play of Wallace!

[steeldawg]

Brown goes down, Cotchery and Sanders are stepping up, where's Wallace?

Dropping balls, running out of bounds away from Giants Defenders on screens, and running terrible routes as usual. He's blowing it big time.

Lol this thread just looks dumb now

[Edman]

Yep, I'll eat my crow. Wallace finally made a big play when we needed it. He needs to do this more often.

[Steeldude]

A game changer play of Wallace!

He scored a TD. Will he now disappear for games at a time? Is a ton of dropped passes worth $11,000,000 per season?

[fansince'76]

Apologies to Wallace from me as well. Nobody else we have has the jets to do that.

[GodfatherofSoul]

Make Wallace the #3 WR. Let him burn nickel DBs for touchdowns, give his spot to sanders or manny

[Edman]

Apologies to Wallace from me as well. Nobody else we have has the jets to do that.

No need to apologize. Wallace was not playing up to his best and he needed to be called out on it. Just because he made a big play here doesn't excuse his lackluster play beforehand. He was well on his way to having another lousy game.

Like I said, Props to Wallace. He needs to do this more often, though.

[steeldawg]

More often we are 8 games in he has 5 tds, hes not going to score every game. That td tonight was clutch and it was all wallace, only top notch speed turns that into td.

[Count Steeler]

Wallace performed well in the 4th. Still doesn't have his head in the game fully.

[Steeldude]

More often we are 8 games in he has 5 tds, hes not going to score every game. That td tonight was clutch and it was all wallace, only top notch speed turns that into td.

More drops than TDs. Is that worth the contract Wallace wants? How about the poor routes and poor fundamentals?

[X-Terminator]

There is no question that Wallace has the speed to turn a 5 yard pass into a 50 yard TD. The problem is that he is not fundamentally sound and does not always have his head in the game. Not worth what he's asking for, but I'd still love to keep him around somehow.

[steeldawg]

More drops than TDs. Is that worth the contract Wallace wants? How about the poor routes and poor fundamentals?

Im sorry but you dont catch over 70 passes in this league by being a poor route runner with poor fundamentals. Does he have the greatest hands no but who cares he has incedible speed and he gets open.

[Carolina Steelers]

Some people just hate on wallace after his hold out then that tough game he had with all those drops, no hes not worth 11 million, but hes worth keeping on this team rooneys will not offer that kind of money so the ball will be in wallace's court. I would hate to lose him he does make big plays just look @ his stats from the past couple of yrs. Were only half way through season i believe wallace will have a much better 2nd half

[SteelerFanInStl]

He made one play. It was a great play but where was he the rest of the game? He killed a drive when he dropped an easy catch.

He's certainly not a #1 WR and not clutch. You can't count on him. IMO he's not the WR that he was two years ago or even the first part of last year.

I love his speed and what he brings but there's no way that the Steelers are going to pay him close to what he thinks he should get.

[Shoes]

I still think we will hang on to him. I wish him many TD's the 2nd half of this season!! Without his catch and run we lose today....I think it also changed the momentum of the game.

[GBMelBlount]

I still think we will hang on to him. I wish him many TD's the 2nd half of this season!! Without his catch and run we lose today....I think it also changed the momentum of the game.

I hope so. If we could lock up wallace, sanders and brown for 5 years we would have the best receiving corp locked up and a high powered offense for Ben's next 5 years.

[Steeldude]

Im sorry but you dont catch over 70 passes in this league by being a poor route runner with poor fundamentals. Does he have the greatest hands no but who cares he has incedible speed and he gets open.

Sure you can. Wallace did it.

He has speed. What else?

Are you claiming he runs good routes and possesses good fundamentals? It would be nice if he at least had average hands.

[steelerdude15]

I'll decide how I feel about Mikey when the season ends and if he deserves the money or not.

[zulater]

He made one play. It was a great play but where was he the rest of the game? He killed a drive when he dropped an easy catch.

He's certainly not a #1 WR and not clutch. You can't count on him. IMO he's not the WR that he was two years ago or even the first part of last year.

I love his speed and what he brings but there's no way that the Steelers are going to pay him close to what he thinks he should get.

QFT.

[Count Steeler]

To date, he has not made a strong case for Jackson money. Yes, he turned a low gainer into a touchdown. But still has too many drops in critical situations. He has a ways to go before the Steelers would pay him what he is asking. Unfortunately, there are teams that will give him what he wants.

Oh well, Clements will have to step up next year, or another draft pick.

[steelreserve]

Franchise for 1 year, see if we can win a Super Bowl, move on. There's a fundamental problem:

1. He's not worth $11M a year.
2. We won't pay him that much if he's not worth it.
3. Someone else will.

Really the only choice we have is whether it's worth keeping him around one more year or zero.

By the way, if he was playing in a way this season that showed he was worth $11M, the asking price would have gone up to $15M, so there was really no way this was going to turn out any other way.

[Count Steeler]

Steelers will try to maximize the pick they can get with his departure.

Maybe if we have a run at the SB, it might change his mind. Let's face it, how can you leave this offense with the potential of going to the next few Super Bowls. Even if he signs here for 8-10 million, he would be nuts to go to Washington for $11m. RGIII may be ready in 4-5 years. The Steelers are ready now.

[Devilsdancefloor]

He scored a TD. Will he now disappear for games at a time? Is a ton of dropped passes worth $11,000,000 per season?

NO, but id gladly take it for 5 a year lol

[Steeldude]

NO, but id gladly take it for 5 a year lol

Much more reasonable

[GodfatherofSoul]

I also think Wallace was at fault for that INT. Not 100% on this, but I think whenever you run those little hook routes, you're supposed to use your body to screen out the DB.

[steeldawg]

Sure you can. Wallace did it.

He has speed. What else?

Are you claiming he runs good routes and possesses good fundamentals? It would be nice if he at least had average hands.

His hands might not be great but i rarely see ben throw a pass to him and hes not in the right position, also alot of nfl recievers come into the league with speed but few put up the seasons hes put up, that doesnt happen by luck it doesnt happen just because hes fast.

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I also think Wallace was at fault for that INT. Not 100% on this, but I think whenever you run those little hook routes, you're supposed to use your body to screen out the DB.

Not even close it was a panic throw by ben and the db under cut the route.

[Steeldude]

His hands might not be great but i rarely see ben throw a pass to him and hes not in the right position, also alot of nfl recievers come into the league with speed but few put up the seasons hes put up, that doesnt happen by luck it doesnt happen just because hes fast.



BR has a lot to do with it. Running around waiting and waiting....and then the pass aka Arians' Offense.

He'll catch it if it's thrown into his chest/stomach area or if he cradle-catches the pass. His problem is he cannot consistently catch passes out of the air with only his hands. On his TD catch I believe he used his shoulder to help catch the ball. Sure he caught it, but he needs learn how to catch passes the correct way, the better way. He will be a better WR when he does.

Do you really think he is worth $11,000,000 per season?

[Moose]

Sorry, I'm not going to let 1 outstanding catch and run change my mind on paying him the big bucks. No doubt he's the fastest player in the league when running down the field....with the ball. That's the big factor ! When he's to the point where he's dependable to throw to and CATCH, then I'll say 'sign him to the long form', but it ain't happening yet. There's no doubt his catch/run was a big game changer Sunday vs. Giants, but he also dropped a easy 1st down pass not long before that. When push comes to shove and you need yard's to keep possession and win, and Miller is open, or Wallace is open......who do you throw to? Right now I'm going Miller's way. I hope Wallace get's to that point, I sure would love to keep him in the Black/Yellow, I'd hate to have to have player's to defend him ( we have NO CB's to even try that ) and he'll be a real threat in year's to come....but for right now, until he catch's the easy passes ( he'll never extend himself for a catch), he's definitely not worth the big buck.

[bayz101]

He made an awesome play, but in no way am I 100% happy with him. He's been absent much of the first half, and has completely disappeared in some games. As far as i'm concerned, he's the same as last year. Playing only one half of a football season.

Want to know the good thing about that? The part of the season that actually matters is in front of us.

[GodfatherofSoul]

Not even close it was a panic throw by ben and the db under cut the route.

Don't agree with this at all. If it's a panic throw (as Simms was suggesting in color commentation), then why did Wallace come to a stop in the middle of the field and turn around? That was a timing route. Maybe Ben should've thrown it a little more to the outside.

[Craic]

Do you really think he is worth $11,000,000 per season?

I'm hearing this all the time. Can you give me a link where he said he wants 11m a season?

[Steeldude]

I'm hearing this all the time. Can you give me a link where he said he wants 11m a season?

He turned down $10,000,000 per season

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2012/07/27/wallace-was-offered-more-than-brown/

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/28/mike-wallace-contract-update-steelers-antonio-brown-holdout/

I can't see him signing for less than $10,000,000. You would think it would at be a million more, right?

He isn't worth over $2,000,000 a season, IMO.

[Drazo85]

Fact is that Mike Wallace is great asset to our offense and to Ben. His slow start should be attributed to offseason holdout and the fact Haleys offense isnt using his speed as much as Wallace would liked it. He isnt worth money he is asking for, but as someone said, somebody would pay him what he`s asking (read Daniel Snyder). Question is can we get something in return, or we just let him walk away whe free agency starts? As much as i would like that we get high draft pick for him, the later scenario seems more realistic.

[HollywoodSteel]

I'll let others debate what he's worth in dollar amount, but all I know is while I was watching him run for the TD, a scene from Full Metal Jacket flashed in my head, only in my mind I replaced "guts" with "speed."

Private Wallace is silly and ignorant, but he's got speed, and speed is enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X6x9JgueoA

[steeldawg]

He turned down $10,000,000 per season

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2012/07/27/wallace-was-offered-more-than-brown/

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/28/mike-wallace-contract-update-steelers-antonio-brown-holdout/

I can't see him signing for less than $10,000,000. You would think it would at be a million more, right?

He isn't worth over $2,000,000 a season, IMO. It was not turning down 50 million he turned it down because only 15 was guaranteed and he want 23 i think they will get there. This premise that the steelers wont pay him is ridiculous they already offered 50 mil.

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Don't agree with this at all. If it's a panic throw (as Simms was suggesting in color commentation), then why did Wallace come to a stop in the middle of the field and turn around? That was a timing route. Maybe Ben should've thrown it a little more to the outside.

It was because the play was never open ben threw it right into the coverage which he rarely does

[Steeldude]

It was not turning down 50 million he turned it down because only 15 was guaranteed and he want 23 i think they will get there. This premise that the steelers wont pay him is ridiculous they already offered 50 mil.


So you think he is worth that much? Who are you going to cut next season to make room?

As of now the Steelers should lower the offer. Look how he is playing during a contract year. I would hate to think how poorly he is going to play after he gets his millions.

[steeldawg]

So you think he is worth that much? Who are you going to cut next season to make room?

As of now the Steelers should lower the offer. Look how he is playing during a contract year. I would hate to think how poorly he is going to play after he gets his millions.

yes i do if brown is worth 8 wallace is definetly worth 10. I am looking how hes playing, hes on pace for 80 catches over 1000 yds and 10tds, if this considered a bad year for wallace then hes definetly worth the money. Apparently im not the only one who thinks he is worth it since the steelers offered him the money already. If you think his play has been poor then we might as well get rid of brown too, because his numbers are not outperforming wallace's. I keep hearing people saying hes playing poor and its not true did he drop some balls yes but he is still on pace for a very good season.

[GBMelBlount]

Right now I would offer him Brown money and lock up Sanders.

Imagine having the best receiving trio in the nfl locked up for the next 5 years for less than Megatron.

[Steeldude]

yes i do if brown is worth 8 wallace is definetly worth 10. I am looking how hes playing, hes on pace for 80 catches over 1000 yds and 10tds, if this considered a bad year for wallace then hes definetly worth the money. Apparently im not the only one who thinks he is worth it since the steelers offered him the money already. If you think his play has been poor then we might as well get rid of brown too, because his numbers are not outperforming wallace's. I keep hearing people saying hes playing poor and its not true did he drop some balls yes but he is still on pace for a very good season.

You don't get it. It's about more than just stats. Brown is a more complete WR. I would take Brown over Wallace every time. I know the effort will be there with Brown.

Who are you suggesting gets cut next year to pay for Wallace's huge contract?


im not the only one who thinks he is worth it since the steelers offered him the money already

Because the Steelers are never wrong? I do remember a certain QB who was given a substantial raise. I am all for keeping Wallace, but at the right price.

[steeldawg]

You don't get it. It's about more than just stats. Brown is a more complete WR. I would take Brown over Wallace every time. I know the effort will be there with Brown.

Who are you suggesting gets cut next year to pay for Wallace's huge contract?




Because the Steelers are never wrong? I do remember a certain QB who was given a substantial raise. I am all for keeping Wallace, but at the right price.

Well you keep the reciever who scores 2 tds a year i will take wallace who scores 10 is a game changer and a commands double teams.

[Steeldude]

Well you keep the reciever who scores 2 tds a year i will take wallace who scores 10 is a game changer and a commands double teams.

I'll take the goto WR(Brown) every time when the game is on the line. I haven't seen Wallace commanding double teams this year.

You need to learn there is more to receiving than stats. I am guessing you were an Allen Iverson fan.

Who do you suggest the Steelers cut to make room for Wallace's huge contract?

[zulater]

I'd venture to say Emanuel Sanders is a more complete receiver than Wallace and could fill Wallace's role and actually upgrade it. Every wonder why Wallace doesn't return kicks? Why he generally is mediocre on end arounds? Because he runs stiff at the hips and is basically a straight line runner. Sanders is half a step slower than Wallace, but runs better patterns, has much better hands, and is more dangerous after the catch in traffic.

So my prediction is that the Steelers will try to keep Wallace. Because 3 good young receivers are better than two obviously. But if Wallace prices himself out of the Steelers comfort level ( about 98% certainty he will) then the Steelers will move on without him.

And just as was true when Burress and Holmes left the Steelers will adjust and their passing game will continue to thrive.

Bottom line, Wallace is a good player, but not even close to a great player, and doesn't deserve to be paid as an elite receiver, and wont be by the Steelers. So enjoy him this year. Appreciate him for what he is. But also recognize what he isn't. And what he isn't is elite or irreplacable.

[Lou Donny]

We talked about this during the latest Rooney Rants Podcast. We were somewhat divided on his future in BnG. He just doesnt seem to have the intangibles that usually accompany a guy that the Rooneys sign to more than one contract.

That speed sure is intoxicating, but something is missing with him.

[86WARD]

29 TDs ... Where's that production going to come from?

For the record, despite all the "drops," he's on pace to have more receptions than he's ever had in a season, 10 TDs and he's averaging more per rush than the golden child.

Yet he's still the most criticized player on the team because he held out.

BTW - Josh Cribbs returns punts...lol.

All facts.

[steelpride12]

I don't even see how this can be a thread until the end of the season when this situation becomes relevant.

[Craic]

I don't even see how this can be a thread until the end of the season when this situation becomes relevant.

Exactly. For all we know, he may light it up in a couple weeks, and be the best receiver this team has every seen for the rest of the year. The best we can say now is:

So far, Wallace hasn't shown that he's worth a big contract.

[zulater]

29 TDs ... Where's that production going to come from?

For the record, despite all the "drops," he's on pace to have more receptions than he's ever had in a season, 10 TDs and he's averaging more per rush than the golden child.

Yet he's still the most criticized player on the team because he held out.

BTW - Josh Cribbs returns punts...lol.

All facts.

Is he as good as Burress was from 2001-2004? Is he better than Santonio was in 2007-08? What happened the year after both of those "IRREPLACABLE " number 1 receivers left?

Look everyone prefer they find a way to keep him. But it's probably not going to happen. So enjoy it this year. But also don't panic if and when he leaves. The Steelers will go on and succeed.

Ben is the only irreplacable on this team.

:coffee:

[steeldawg]

I'd venture to say Emanuel Sanders is a more complete receiver than Wallace and could fill Wallace's role and actually upgrade it. Every wonder why Wallace doesn't return kicks? Why he generally is mediocre on end arounds? Because he runs stiff at the hips and is basically a straight line runner. Sanders is half a step slower than Wallace, but runs better patterns, has much better hands, and is more dangerous after the catch in traffic.

So my prediction is that the Steelers will try to keep Wallace. Because 3 good young receivers are better than two obviously. But if Wallace prices himself out of the Steelers comfort level ( about 98% certainty he will) then the Steelers will move on without him.

And just as was true when Burress and Holmes left the Steelers will adjust and their passing game will continue to thrive.

Bottom line, Wallace is a good player, but not even close to a great player, and doesn't deserve to be paid as an elite receiver, and wont be by the Steelers. So enjoy him this year. Appreciate him for what he is. But also recognize what he isn't. And what he isn't is elite or irreplacable.

He doesnt return kicks because hes our number one receiver and we dont want to get him hurt. Also i dont see what returning kicks has to do with receiver, devon hester is one of the best returners ive ever seen and he cant run a route to save his life.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I'd venture to say Emanuel Sanders is a more complete receiver than Wallace and could fill Wallace's role and actually upgrade it.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/001/582/picard-facepalm.jpg?1240934151

[zulater]

He doesnt return kicks because hes our number one receiver and we dont want to get him hurt. Also i dont see what returning kicks has to do with receiver, devon hester is one of the best returners ive ever seen and he cant run a route to save his life.

Santonio Holmes was our number one receiver, and guess what he returned kicks! Why? Because he could.

Wallace was a 3rd round draft pick and came on to a team with 2 established receivers. ( Ward and Holmes) Yet even as a rookie he was never put in a kick returner. Why? Because he would suck at it. There's a difference between being fast (straight line speed) and being fast and shifty. That's why he's not nearly as dangerous on wr screens as Brown and Sanders are.

I'm not "hating" on Wallace. I'm glad he's on the team this year.But if he's not on the team next year, guess what? I'm not surprised, nor do I care. The Steelers will be just fine if and when he leaves due to excessive contract demands.

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/001/582/picard-facepalm.jpg?1240934151

Wait and see. 2013 is closer than you think.

[steeldawg]

I'll take the goto WR(Brown) every time when the game is on the line. I haven't seen Wallace commanding double teams this year.

You need to learn there is more to receiving than stats. I am guessing you were an Allen Iverson fan.

Who do you suggest the Steelers cut to make room for Wallace's huge contract?

First, goto receivers dont catch only 2 tds in a season, second im not saying stats are everything but im also not going to totally dismiss them. The stats do tell the story of what happens on the field, lets just be clear last season brown only caught 3 more first downs than wallace did, so i really dont see the ball going to him for first downs that much more than wallace. As far as cutting people we may not have to we can do some restructuring or cut if we have to we have many aging defenders.

[Count Steeler]

I don't see Hampton on our roster next year. Harrison is 50/50 at this point. I'm sure others will restructure.

Bottom line is, does Wallace fit in Haley/Tomlin future. They will decide and they will make it happen. If the price tag is unreasonable, he will be in a different uniform. If he wants to win SBs, he will stay.

[zulater]

First, goto receivers dont catch only 2 tds in a season, second im not saying stats are everything but im also not going to totally dismiss them. The stats do tell the story of what happens on the field, lets just be clear last season brown only caught 3 more first downs than wallace did, so i really dont see the ball going to him for first downs that much more than wallace. As far as cutting people we may not have to we can do some restructuring or cut if we have to we have many aging defenders.

The Steelers don't overpay for anyone. If the Steelers weren't willing to satisfy Wallace's contract demands this offseason, why do you think it's going to be different next offseason?

[steeldawg]

Santonio Holmes was our number one receiver, and guess what he returned kicks! Why? Because he could.

Wallace was a 3rd round draft pick and came on to a team with 2 established receivers. ( Ward and Holmes) Yet even as a rookie he was never put in a kick returner. Why? Because he would suck at it. There's a difference between being fast (straight line speed) and being fast and shifty. That's why he's not nearly as dangerous on wr screens as Brown and Sanders are.

I'm not "hating" on Wallace. I'm glad he's on the team this year.But if he's not on the team next year, guess what? I'm not surprised, nor do I care. The Steelers will be just fine if and when he leaves due to excessive contract demands.

- - - Updated - - -



Wait and see. 2013 is closer than you think.

I dont think the case is that he doesnt return kicks because he cant considering he broke his highschools record for kick returns and also returned kicks for his last 2 seasons at mississippi.

- - - Updated - - -


The Steelers don't overpay for anyone. If the Steelers weren't willing to satisfy Wallace's contract demands this offseason, why do you think it's going to be different next offseason?

They over paid brown!! 8 mil a season !!! for what a possession receiver?

[zulater]

I dont think the case is that he doesnt return kicks because he cant considering he broke his highschools record for kick returns and also returned kicks for his last 2 seasons at mississippi.

- - - Updated - - -

They over paid brown!! 8 mil a season !!! for what a possession receiver?

1. High school and college aren't the Pros's. If it was Willie Reid would be returning kicks for the Steelers right now.

2. I'm pretty sure the Steelers are quite happy with the contract they gave Antonio Brown and outside of you and a few other's who have put Wallace on a pedastal and look to divide the fanbase over one player, no one thinks he was overpaid.

[steeldawg]

1. High school and college aren't the Pros's. If it was Willie Reid would be returning kicks for the Steelers right now.

2. I'm pretty sure the Steelers are quite happy with the contract they gave Antonio Brown and outside of you and a few other's who have put Wallace on a pedastal and look to divide the fanbase over one player, no one thinks he was overpaid.

Lol yes im trying to divide the fanbase,thats a bit dramatic dont you think. there is also plenty of opinions out there that brown is overpaid, one decent season and he gets an 8 mil a year deal

[Count Steeler]

Lol yes im trying to divide the fanbase,thats a bit dramatic dont you think. there is also plenty of opinions out there that brown is overpaid, one decent season and he gets an 8 mil a year deal

Let's not forget who won MVP last year, as voted on by his teammates. That speaks volumes to me.

[bayz101]

Antonio Brown made a big play against Baltimore in the playoffs. A game-changing play that ultimately won the Steelers the game. I have yet to see that from Mike Wallace. He can do everything in the world in the regular season, but if he can't step it up when it matters, he isn't worth the piece of gum I stepped on outside my porch this morning.

[zulater]

Lol yes im trying to divide the fanbase,thats a bit dramatic dont you think. there is also plenty of opinions out there that brown is overpaid, one decent season and he gets an 8 mil a year deal


http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/15388-Did-the-Steelers-overpay-Antonio-Brown

Apparently not so much as you believe.

[steeldawg]

Antonio Brown made a big play against Baltimore in the playoffs. A game-changing play that ultimately won the Steelers the game. I have yet to see that from Mike Wallace. He can do everything in the world in the regular season, but if he can't step it up when it matters, he isn't worth the piece of gum I stepped on outside my porch this morning.

Did you watch in 2009 with that nice game winning catch with no time left falling out of bounds to beat the packers or how about the huge td catch in the superbowl to cut the packers lead to 3 and most recently the td catch and run against the giants.

[SteelGhost]

I'd prefer to wait until the end of the season to say something about Wallace :yup:

[zulater]

I'd prefer to wait until the end of the season to say something about Wallace :yup:

That's a pretty smart approach to take. :applaudit:

Everyone wants Mike Wallace to play great. Everyone hopes he's here for years to come. I don't think anyone really wants to pit Wallace against Antonio Brown, or Emanuel Sanders in an either - or situation.

But at the same token this is a message board predominately made up of Steelers fans who like to discuss current Steeler issues.

so what are ya gonna do? :lol:

[86WARD]

They'll go on and they'll be good, but they are a better team with Wallace and whether it shows on the stat page or not, Wallace brings a lot to the table...especially for the likes of a Heath Miller, Antonio Brown, Manny Sanders.

His production in 2012 is on pace to be a "career" year for him on the stat page...other than yardage and that's because the offense at this point has been more of a short passing game, where Arians was obviously a stretch the field offense.

Fans love to bitch about him and overly criticize him because of his holdout. I could only imagine the uproar had he back peddled into the endzone...lol.

[zulater]

They'll go on and they'll be good, but they are a better team with Wallace and whether it shows on the stat page or not, Wallace brings a lot to the table...especially for the likes of a Heath Miller, Antonio Brown, Manny Sanders.

His production in 2012 is on pace to be a "career" year for him on the stat page...other than yardage and that's because the offense at this point has been more of a short passing game, where Arians was obviously a stretch the field offense.

Fans love to bitch about him and overly criticize him because of his holdout. I could only imagine the uproar had he back peddled into the endzone...lol.

We criticize him because of all the drops and catches he should make but doesn't.

[86WARD]

But if he came in and agreed to terms and was here for the first day of training camp, the drops wouldn't be as large an "issue" as they are today in most fans minds. There's a negative attitude towards Wallace.

BTW - Ben is by far the only irreplaceable. That can't possibly be argued can it?

[Austin87]

BTW - Ben is by far the only irreplaceable. That can't possibly be argued can it?

QFT

[steeldawg]

We criticize him because of all the drops and catches he should make but doesn't.

Wallace has 5 drops and antonio brown has 2 drops, Calvin johnson has 7, Andre johson has 5, victor cruz has 8 ,jordy nelson has 6. This shows that the drops are not as outrageous as people are making it out to be.

[Steeldude]

Wallace has 5 drops and antonio brown has 2 drops, Calvin johnson has 7, Andre johson has 5, victor cruz has 8 ,jordy nelson has 6. This shows that the drops are not as outrageous as people are making it out to be.

You also know, just by watching the games, he has more than 5 drops. Remember Dwight Stone? By NFL standards he did not have many drops, if any at all, but he didn't earn the nickname Stone Hands for snatching passes. Ike Taylor wouldn't have any drops by NFL standards either.

Have you ever seen Wallace dive for a pass? I have seen him alligator-arm some passes.

[zulater]

Wallace has 5 drops and antonio brown has 2 drops, Calvin johnson has 7, Andre johson has 5, victor cruz has 8 ,jordy nelson has 6. This shows that the drops are not as outrageous as people are making it out to be.

There's drops, then there's catchable balls that should be caught that aren't catergorized as drops by official stats. Wallace has at least 6 of those by my count. Far and awy the most on the team.

[steeldawg]

There's drops, then there's catchable balls that should be caught that aren't catergorized as drops by official stats. Wallace has at least 6 of those by my count. Far and awy the most on the team.

What!!! Ya ok!!

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There's drops, then there's catchable balls that should be caught that aren't catergorized as drops by official stats. Wallace has at least 6 of those by my count. Far and awy the most on the team.

What!!! Ya ok!!

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You also know, just by watching the games, he has more than 5 drops. Remember Dwight Stone? By NFL standards he did not have many drops, if any at all, but he didn't earn the nickname Stone Hands for snatching passes. Ike Taylor wouldn't have any drops by NFL standards either.

Have you ever seen Wallace dive for a pass? I have seen him alligator-arm some passes.

No i dont know that he has 5 drops, They dont drop that many balls its only magnified for wallace because your a steelers fan and your holding a grudge because of his hold out. Also mike wallace has never dropped 5 balls in a season, and its considered out of character for him.

[zulater]

What!!! Ya ok!!

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What!!! Ya ok!!

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No i dont know that he has 5 drops, They dont drop that many balls its only magnified for wallace because your a steelers fan and your holding a grudge because of his hold out. Also mike wallace has never dropped 5 balls in a season, and its considered out of character for him.

I don't have time today. but I can find at least 3 or 4 columns that cite Wallace's propensity to drop important passes from national columnists. In other words there's a league wide perception that Wallace is struggling in this area. Why? Because it's true.

And again there's a lot of catchable balls that Wallace isn't catching that aren't listed as drops. If I have time this week end I'll go through some of them for you.

Look again I want him to do great. He's had his moments. And we're all hoping that he puts together a great second half.

So what are we arguing about?

[GBMelBlount]

I would imagine that Wallace is targeted much less than some of these other receivers.

Seems to me he is dropping an inordinately high percentage of passes.

He needs to get his head back in the game.

[Steeldude]

No i dont know that he has 5 drops, They dont drop that many balls its only magnified for wallace because your a steelers fan and your holding a grudge because of his hold out. Also mike wallace has never dropped 5 balls in a season, and its considered out of character for him.

They do in fact dropped that many passes. WRs drop passes regardless of which team they play for. You watch the games, but don't know he has at least 5 drops?

I cited his poor hand and poor fundamentals long before his accurately predicted holdout.

Here is Wallace's draft report coming out of college...


Negatives: Still a work in progress as a route-runner. Learning to sink his hips and explode out of his cuts, as he has to gather himself too much. Struggles a bit against press coverage. Has to use his hands better to gain a quick release. Lets too many passes into his pads, resulting in some ugly drop


I am guessing you are 20 or younger. Am I correct in that assumption?

[Devilsdancefloor]

You also know, just by watching the games, he has more than 5 drops. Remember Dwight Stone? By NFL standards he did not have many drops, if any at all, but he didn't earn the nickname Stone Hands for snatching passes. Ike Taylor wouldn't have any drops by NFL standards either.

Have you ever seen Wallace dive for a pass? I have seen him alligator-arm some passes.

I heard Ike inherited his hands :lol: (why must you bring up painful memories from the past saying things like dwight stone, next you will bring up chad scott)


He is in a funk, but i think it goes back to Denver playoff game. plus he seems to let the other teams DB;s get into his head some games

[steeldawg]

They do in fact dropped that many passes. WRs drop passes regardless of which team they play for. You watch the games, but don't know he has at least 5 drops?

I cited his poor hand and poor fundamentals long before his accurately predicted holdout.

Here is Wallace's draft report coming out of college...




I am guessing you are 20 or younger. Am I correct in that assumption?

sorry that was supposed to read No i dont know that, he has 5 drops.

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sorry that was supposed to read No i dont know that, he has 5 drops.

No you are way off by more than a decade

[steeldawg]

They do in fact dropped that many passes. WRs drop passes regardless of which team they play for. You watch the games, but don't know he has at least 5 drops?

I cited his poor hand and poor fundamentals long before his accurately predicted holdout.

Here is Wallace's draft report coming out of college...




I am guessing you are 20 or younger. Am I correct in that assumption?who cares about his draft report, i dont care how he puts the numbers up, as long as he puts them up. I mean seriously i we really talking about getting rid of a guy whos gonna put up over 70 catches over 1000 yds and double digit tds per year because hes not text book on how he catches the ball? Just the same i dont care if antonio brown catches every ball with his hands if hes only catching 2 tds per season its not worth 8 mil a season.

[86WARD]

You count a hard to catch poorly thrown ball, a defender pulling him down, a defender holding him and disrupting his route, a deflected pass as a drop. They aren't. They just aren't. You want them to be because its Mike Wallace The Holdout, but they aren't "drops."

Wouldn't even be an "issue" if he didn't hold out.

[zulater]

You count a hard to catch poorly thrown ball, a defender pulling him down, a defender holding him and disrupting his route, a deflected pass as a drop. They aren't. They just aren't. You want them to be because its Mike Wallace The Holdout, but they aren't "drops."

Wouldn't even be an "issue" if he didn't hold out.

No Ward I watch the games. Multiple times in fact. Sometimes I'll watch the same play 6-7-8 times ( with the 10 second rewind button offered on NFL rewind.) until I'm satisfied that I fully understand what happened. Wallace doesn't have great hands. Balls that elite receivers catch he doesn't catch. Great receivers don't always require the ball to be thrown right in their bread basket without a defender within 5 yards of them. There's a lot of balls he should have caught if he were truly elite that he didn't catch.

Virtually everyone but you and Steeldawg see this. So I wont bother wasting keystrokes stating the obvious anymore. Believe what you want. But the truth is no one gives a shit anymore about the holdout. They just want Wallace to catch the balls thrown to him.

[86WARD]

Sorry. You're wrong. I too watch the same thing, I too watch it multiple times, I see other receivers with the same type of drops. A ball deflected in the end zone that comes down at a receivers mid section when his arms are going up to catch where the ball is? Elite receivers don't even catch that. A receiver that is being held and pulled and because he doesn't catch it being held and pulled, it's a drop. Elite receivers don't always catch those.

Despite the drops, he's on pace to have a career year in every category other than yardage and average per catch. Yet...he's the antichrist when it comes to the Steelers receiving corps and it's because of the holdout. You can say it's not, but it is...a player just doesn't warrant the "hate" and over criticism that he gets over night unless there's a reason. He was being criticized before he made his first "drop."

Bottom line, Wallace is overly criticized. I never said he has the best hands in the league. I never said he was the best WR in the league. Never said he deserves to be paid as an "elite guy." My point is, and it is proved every day on this message board as well as others, that Wallace is overly criticized because of his holdout. Had Wallace back pedaled into the end zone, people would be out for his head. Antonio Brown does it, meh, "he'll learn not to do it..." lol...

And trust me, it's more than just myself and Steeldawg that see it this way amongst the Steelers fan base.

[zulater]

So everyone who doesn't see things the way you and Steeldawg do lack objectivity?

Right.:jerkit:

[GBMelBlount]

Despite the drops, he's on pace to have a career year in every category other than yardage and average per catch.

My point is, and it is proved every day on this message board as well as others, that Wallace is overly criticized because of his holdout.

Other than touchdowns, what other categories are we talking about career years in?

Wallace is a gifted receiver imo and arguably top 15...

I have seen him have incredible focus and playmaking ability the past 2 years and when he is focused and "on" I think he is as big a contributor as Brown even if perhaps more one dimensional as has been stated.

However, right now, I do not think he is playing as well as I have seen him at times and certainly not what he is capable of.

[Steeldude]

who cares about his draft report, i dont care how he puts the numbers up, as long as he puts them up. I mean seriously i we really talking about getting rid of a guy whos gonna put up over 70 catches over 1000 yds and double digit tds per year because hes not text book on how he catches the ball? Just the same i dont care if antonio brown catches every ball with his hands if hes only catching 2 tds per season its not worth 8 mil a season.

Who said get rid of him? The discussion is how much is he worth.

So TDs are your only measuring stick. I guess that means Randall Cobb and Eric Decker will be holding out for big contracts.


i dont care if antonio brown catches every ball with his hands

You should. Thankfully you are not a scout.


its not worth 8 mil a season

Wasn't your earlier argument about Wallace being worth $10 million a season because the Steelers offered that much? Doesn't the same apply to Brown? More and more this is looking like a player you have personal feelings for. This is why I assume you are very young.

I brought his draft report up to show you his hands and route running is known by many.

How much do you think he should be paid?

[steeldawg]

Who said get rid of him? The discussion is how much is he worth.

So TDs are your only measuring stick. I guess that means Randall Cobb and Eric Decker will be holding out for big contracts.



You should. Thankfully you are not a scout.



Wasn't your earlier argument about Wallace being worth $10 million a season because the Steelers offered that much? Doesn't the same apply to Brown? More and more this is looking like a player you have personal feelings for. This is why I assume you are very young.

I brought his draft report up to show you his hands and route running is known by many.

How much do you think he should be paid?

No my arguement was against steelers not willing to pay wallace 10 mil a year, when in fact they offered him 10 mil a year. Also i dont see how you make the case for brown being paid 8 mil and cant fathom wallace being paid 10 mil a year when wallace has put up better numbers consistently.

[Psycho Ward 86]

you know who has more drops or as many drops as Wallace so far?

Jimmy Graham
Doug Martin
Victor Cruz
Calvin Johnson
Demaryius Thomas
Jason Witten
Eric Decker
Rob Gronkowski
Jordy Nelson
Reggie Wayne

they should all be cut though. i guess they should take paycuts or not get contract extensions though because they arent valuable or anything. Also i like how people are spazzing out about drops after 8 games when they were mesmerized by his performance for the first 48 games. this coming from one of the few people who scoffed at the notion that he can be an effective replacement for Santonio holmes. This team is on the verge of being a juggernaut that casts fear across the league on both sides of the ball and were supposed to ditch the most explosive player in the league? so much concern over this cap situation, and understandably so, out of the 2013 UFA's we have id say about 8 of these fellows are assets we need to keep or are imperative to our success. http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/07/early-look-at-the-steelers-2013-free-agents/. At the very least a franchise tag with contract talks in the works couldnt hurt, seeing how the 2014 offseason is going to be far less busy in terms of keeping our own guys. Did people just all of a sudden forget Ben is in his prime or do they just think any losses on offense can be compensated by how well he's throwing the ball? Build around your best talent, dont weaken it and expect that talent to automatically pick it up.

[86WARD]

Other than touchdowns, what other categories are we talking about career years in?

Wallace is a gifted receiver imo and arguably top 15...

I have seen him have incredible focus and playmaking ability the past 2 years and when he is focused and "on" I think he is as big a contributor as Brown even if perhaps more one dimensional as has been stated.

However, right now, I do not think he is playing as well as I have seen him at times and certainly not what he is capable of.

Receptions. On pace for more than he's ever had. TDs. On pace to tie his career high. The yardage and average are obviously down because of the the style of offense the Steelers run now.

Look, I'm not saying the guy is playing lights out...but when it comes to his play amongst some Steelers fans, he's overly criticized. Some warranted, some piled on due to nitpicking.

[86WARD]

So everyone who doesn't see things the way you and Steeldawg do lack objectivity?

Right.:jerkit:

I ddnt say that, but some people still have a negative attitude towards Wallace because of the holdout. You can't possibly deny it. Where are the threads about Jerricho Cotchery tripping over his own feet? Where are the threads about Antonio Brown's drops? Antonio Brown's back pedaling...had Wallace done it, it would be the end of the world for him.

All we hear is how Wallace can't catch, yet he's on pace for a record number of receptions. He can't return punts, he's not fluid when he runs...51 yard TD against the Giants looked impressive. Wallace disappeared the last half of 2011, lol...thats my favorite one. Not like teams were game planning to stop Mike Wallace as priority number one...that couldn't possibly be part of it. Nah, it was his "attitude." Wallace can't run routes. Had Tomlin never said he was a "one trick pony," probably wouldn't be an issue. This team will go on and win without Wallace, they don't need him. They looked pretty good without Antonio Brown too. Wallace isn't worth the money, he wants Fitzgerald money. First of all, he never said that. Second of all, I want Fitzgerald money too...I'd be worried if he didn't want that kind of money...it would mean he didn't really care. Wallace is worth $8-9M for what he does on the field, not only for himself, but for the other players as well.

He's the most criticized player on the team and its old. You can say its not because of the holdout, but to some people it is...they still harbor those bad feelings.

When I start seeing the same whining about the other players on the Steelers to the extent that Wallace gets it, I'll believe it wasn't about the holdout.

[zulater]

I ddnt say that, but some people still have a negative attitude towards Wallace because of the holdout. You can't possibly deny it. Where are the threads about Jerricho Cotchery tripping over his own feet?

Cotchery is the 4th receiver, and outside of that one play he's doing pretty much what you'd expect from a no.4


Where are the threads about Antonio Brown's drops? Antonio Brown's back pedaling.

Brown's had a couple drops, but he also makes catches that Wallace rarely will pull in. The league has a standard for drops, but they don't quantify every catchable balls that isn't completed. Brown will bail out his quarterback with exceptional catches once or twice a game. Which more than compensates for his occasional drops.

As far as his back peddling into the end zone, that drew quite a bit of response on this forum, most of it negative as I remember.


..had Wallace done it, it would be the end of the world for him.

Being a bit whiny here..


All we hear is how Wallace can't catch, yet he's on pace for a record number of receptions.


Personal record for him. Is he going to be on any end of season All Pro teams? He's asking to be paid at All Pro level, so why shouldn't we hold him to that standard of play?


He can't return punts, he's not fluid when he runs...51 yard TD against the Giants looked impressive.

He's a fast straight line runner. He's doesn't have the "wiggle" that great open field runners possess. Watch Rainey or Antonio Brown in the open field and watch how they make can fake a guy out of his shoes. Wallace doesn't do that. He's just fast. Extremely so. But there's different kind of speed. And Wallace has never been asked to return kicks at the NFL level because he's not the quality of open field runner that Rainey, Sanders and Brown are.



Wallace disappeared the last half of 2011, lol...thats my favorite one. Not like teams were game planning to stop Mike Wallace as priority number one...that couldn't possibly be part of it.

That would only be a small part of it. The biggest part of it was Ben lost his deep ball after his high ankle sprain. Once the threat of the deep ball was removed from the Steelers arsenal and teams didn't have to respect it, Wallace needed to become a receiver and fell short. By that I mean he needed to run more precise routes and use decpetions other than speed to get open, and he was incapable.

In other words as long as teams respect the Steelers abilty to pass deep Wallace can get open underneath on easy curls, quick slants and stop routes. But remove Ben's ability to throw deep and Wallace turns invisible when DB's can "squat" on the underneath stuff.

Put him on a team with Blaine Gabbert or Alex Smith as the qb and he wouldn't catch 50 passes over a season.


Nah, it was his "attitude." Wallace can't run routes.

You finally got one right! :chuckle:


Had Tomlin never said he was a "one trick pony," probably wouldn't be an issue.

Tomlin wouldn't have labeled him with that moniker if there weren't some truth to it. It was meant to motivate him because he's obviouisly someone who isn't self motivated enough to take it upon himself to get to that next level.


This team will go on and win without Wallace, they don't need him. They looked pretty good without Antonio Brown too. Wallace isn't worth the money, he wants Fitzgerald money. First of all, he never said that. Second of all, I want Fitzgerald money too...I'd be worried if he didn't want that kind of money...it would mean he didn't really care. Wallace is worth $8-9M for what he does on the field, not only for himself, but for the other players as well.

Yeah he's probably worth what you say, in fact I'd say even a little more. In fact the Steelers offered him more than that, right? But it wasn't enough. And whatever they offer probably wont be enough next offseason as well. I think Wallace is determined to test free agency. Which is his right.


He's the most criticized player on the team and its old. You can say its not because of the holdout, but to some people it is...they still harbor those bad feelings.

He's criticized when he drops balls and doesn't produce. Ben is criticized when he turns the ball over takes and takes needless sacks. Tomlin is criticized when we lose. LeBeau is criticized when the defense gives up 4th quarter scores. Woodley is criticized when he doesn't get sacks.etc... Get a violin, it's part of what happens when people have high expectations of you.


When I start seeing the same whining about the other players on the Steelers to the extent that Wallace gets it, I'll believe it wasn't about the holdout.


There's plenty of criticism of other players and coaches. You just have tunnel vision on Wallace.

I killed Antonio Brown for his two fumbles after the Raiders game. Ike Taylor was destroyed by Steelers nation for his early season play. Willie Colon was crucified for his early season penalties. I could go on and on. But why I should I bother? You're going to beleive what you want anyway.

[Steeldude]

No my arguement was against steelers not willing to pay wallace 10 mil a year, when in fact they offered him 10 mil a year. Also i dont see how you make the case for brown being paid 8 mil and cant fathom wallace being paid 10 mil a year when wallace has put up better numbers consistently.

But earlier you said,
Apparently im not the only one who thinks he is worth it since the steelers offered him the money already

Then you said,
They over paid brown!! 8 mil a season !!! for what a possession receiver?

You have double-standards. Why isn't Brown worth it? The same Steelers FO offered the money.

The problem Wallace has now it he may have missed out. The Steelers have a lot of UFAs and RFAs next season, along with a cap problem($13 million over approx.)

Here are a few of the free agents in 2013...

UFA
Ramon Foster*
Doug Legursky*
Keenan Lewis*
Max Starks*
Will Allen*
Rashard Mendenhall
Greg Warren
Ryan Mundy
Larry Foote

RFA
Issac Redman*
Emmanuel Sanders
Steve McLendon*
Greg Warren
Jonathan Dwyer*

*Players I feel need to be re-signed.

If they re-sign Wallace it's probably going to be around an $8 million(give or take a million) cap hit. That raises it to roughly $20 million over. You have to figure in how much is Wallace worth when dealing with a cap. Do you really want to let go of Harrison, Foster, Allen, Legursky, Redman/Dwyer, Mclendon, Starks and/or Lewis? Some players will need to be let go in order to pay Wallace.

[steeldawg]

But earlier you said,

Then you said,

You have double-standards. Why isn't Brown worth it? The same Steelers FO offered the money.

The problem Wallace has now it he may have missed out. The Steelers have a lot of UFAs and RFAs next season, along with a cap problem($13 million over approx.)

Here are a few of the free agents in 2013...

UFA
Ramon Foster*
Doug Legursky*
Keenan Lewis*
Max Starks*
Will Allen*
Rashard Mendenhall
Greg Warren
Ryan Mundy
Larry Foote

RFA
Issac Redman*
Emmanuel Sanders
Steve McLendon*
Greg Warren
Jonathan Dwyer*

*Players I feel need to be re-signed.

If they re-sign Wallace it's probably going to be around an $8 million(give or take a million) cap hit. That raises it to roughly $20 million over. You have to figure in how much is Wallace worth when dealing with a cap. Do you really want to let go of Harrison, Foster, Allen, Legursky, Redman/Dwyer, Mclendon, Starks and/or Lewis? Some players will need to be let go in order to pay Wallace.

Why is that a double standard i think wallace is worth 10 mil a year i dont think brown is worth 8. I didnt say the FO is always right i just said i wasnt the only one who thought he was worth 10. Ya i could deal with harrison being let go next season, i think hes pretty much done.

[Seven]

Mike Wallace is a very gifted player who is having a mediocre/down year. It happens to the best of them, but he chose an extremely poor season to drop off. He's going to get a nice deal, probably not from the Steelers, after this season and should have a fine career.

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Here are a few of the free agents in 2013...

UFA
Ramon Foster
Doug Legursky
Keenan Lewis
Max Starks
Will Allen
Rashard Mendenhall
Greg Warren
Ryan Mundy
Larry Foote

RFA
Issac Redman
Emmanuel Sanders
Steve McLendon
Greg Warren
Jonathan Dwyer

UFA
Ramon Foster: Would be nice to keep.
Doug Legursky: Keep.
Keenan Lewis: Must keep.
Max Starks: Keep.
Will Allen: Keep.
Rashard Mendenhall: Gone.
Greg Warren: Keep.
Ryan Mundy: Gone.
Larry Foote: Would be nice to keep.

RFA
Issac Redman: Would be nice to keep.
Emmanuel Sanders: Must keep.
Steve McLendon: Must keep.
Greg Warren: I thought he was a UFA?
Jonathan Dwyer: Must keep.

Point is, there are a lot of guys on that list we need to hang on to. And if I had to choose between a couple of those guys or Wallace, I'm letting Wallace walk easy.

[steeldawg]

Mike Wallace is a very gifted player who is having a mediocre/down year. It happens to the best of them, but he chose an extremely poor season to drop off. He's going to get a nice deal, probably not from the Steelers, after this season and should have a fine career.

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UFA
Ramon Foster: Would be nice to keep.
Doug Legursky: Keep.
Keenan Lewis: Must keep.
Max Starks: Keep.
Will Allen: Keep.
Rashard Mendenhall: Gone.
Greg Warren: Keep.
Ryan Mundy: Gone.
Larry Foote: Would be nice to keep.

RFA
Issac Redman: Would be nice to keep.
Emmanuel Sanders: Must keep.
Steve McLendon: Must keep.
Greg Warren: I thought he was a UFA?
Jonathan Dwyer: Must keep.

Point is, there are a lot of guys on that list we need to hang on to. And if I had to choose between a couple of those guys or Wallace, I'm letting Wallace walk easy.

Lol, but the point is hes not having a down year hes actually having a pretty good year.

[Seven]

Lol, but the point is hes not having a down year hes actually having a pretty good year.

He is having a better year in some statistical categories, but he isn't having the same kind of impact on the game as he has had in years past. In part that is due to the new offense, it's not exactly the best fit for him. But if anything that only supports the idea that we have no business re-signing him after this season.

[steeldawg]

He is having a better year in some statistical categories, but he isn't having the same kind of impact on the game as he has had in years past. In part that is due to the new offense, it's not exactly the best fit for him. But if anything that only supports the idea that we have no business re-signing him after this season.

How could a possible career year in catches and tds not be an impact on the game and how would that classify as not a great fit?

[Seven]

How could a possible career year in catches and tds not be an impact on the game and how would that classify as not a great fit?

His skillset isn't a great fit for the offense because Haley doesn't take many shots. Sure Wallace has more touchdowns than ever, but Emmanuel Sanders would probably be doing just as well lining up in his spot. If you aren't going to utilize his speed which is by far his best attribute then why re-sign him to a huge deal when you can probably just plug someone else in with similar results for a fraction of the cost?

[steeldawg]

His skillset isn't a great fit for the offense because Haley doesn't take many shots. Sure Wallace has more touchdowns than ever, but Emmanuel Sanders would probably be doing just as well lining up in his spot. If you aren't going to utilize his speed which is by far his best attribute then why re-sign him to a huge deal when you can probably just plug someone else in with similar results for a fraction of the cost?

Speed is a great skillset for any offense, also how do you think we get those underneath routes open, without a deepthreat those underneath routes get tougher to get open. Nothing any of the other recievers have done have proven they could take wallaces place and none of the other recievers have put up the numbers wallace has.

[86WARD]

Cotchery is the 4th receiver, and outside of that one play he's doing pretty much what you'd expect from a no.4
Point is, had it been Wallace...uproar...how he can't run...lol.


Brown's had a couple drops, but he also makes catches that Wallace rarely will pull in. The league has a standard for drops, but they don't quantify every catchable balls that isn't completed. Brown will bail out his quarterback with exceptional catches once or twice a game. Which more than compensates for his occasional drops.
So the league has a "standard" for drops and zulater has a "standard" for drops. Mike Wallace fails at "zulater's standard" but Antonio Brown passes. Great. How do you know that Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall...to name a few...all don't fail at "zulater's standard." You can't possibly watch everyone of their plays. There is a reason the NFL has a standard and why some of them aren't counted as "drops." Because some aren't expected to be caught. Some are uncatchable...lol.


As far as his back peddling into the end zone, that drew quite a bit of response on this forum, most of it negative as I remember.
Very briefly and then followed by a lot of..."oh, he'll learn." Again, Wallace. Hung. Brown, "he'll learn."



Being a bit whiny here..
Not really...it's just the fact.


Personal record for him. Is he going to be on any end of season All Pro teams? He's asking to be paid at All Pro level, so why shouldn't we hold him to that standard of play?
Personal Record for him...right. You have NO IDEA what he is asking to be paid. He hasn't asked for anything. Where has it come out of Wallace's mouth that he wants to be paid like an All-Pro and I'm pretty sure if you polled the players in the NFL, they'd all want to be paid like All-Pros...lol. But thanks for kinda of proving the point with the standard of play argument. You're holding a $2.75M man to a higher standard because he wants more money than a $8M man that is less productive.

For the record:
Mike Wallace: 39 catches for 525 yards, 5 TDs
Antonio Brown: 42 catches for 499 yards, 1 TD - a TD that Brown fumbled and was lucky to get back.

Where is the "earn the money" criticism for Brown? Just saying...



He's a fast straight line runner. He's doesn't have the "wiggle" that great open field runners possess. Watch Rainey or Antonio Brown in the open field and watch how they make can fake a guy out of his shoes. Wallace doesn't do that. He's just fast. Extremely so. But there's different kind of speed. And Wallace has never been asked to return kicks at the NFL level because he's not the quality of open field runner that Rainey, Sanders and Brown are.
Wish is TOTALLY irrelevant to the 29 TDs he has scored in a Steelers Uniform...lol. Larry Fitzgerald. Calvin Johnson. Never returned a kick...lol. Get over that argument dude...seriously. It's IRRELEVANT. Josh Cribbs returns punts. IRRELEVANT!


That would only be a small part of it. The biggest part of it was Ben lost his deep ball after his high ankle sprain. Once the threat of the deep ball was removed from the Steelers arsenal and teams didn't have to respect it, Wallace needed to become a receiver and fell short. By that I mean he needed to run more precise routes and use decpetions other than speed to get open, and he was incapable.
Yet Arians continued to run those plays. But it all falls on Wallace. Of course it does.


In other words as long as teams respect the Steelers abilty to pass deep Wallace can get open underneath on easy curls, quick slants and stop routes. But remove Ben's ability to throw deep and Wallace turns invisible when DB's can "squat" on the underneath stuff.
And you say you watch the games over and over and over? lol... Just the presence of Wallace out there doesn't do anything right... :toofunny:


Put him on a team with Blaine Gabbert or Alex Smith as the qb and he wouldn't catch 50 passes over a season.

No relevance.


omlin wouldn't have labeled him with that moniker if there weren't some truth to it. It was meant to motivate him because he's obviouisly someone who isn't self motivated enough to take it upon himself to get to that next level.

Then where was all the criticism of Wallace back then? There was nothing but support for Wallace when he was proving that he wasn't a one trick pony...all of that is gone.


Yeah he's probably worth what you say, in fact I'd say even a little more. In fact the Steelers offered him more than that, right? But it wasn't enough. And whatever they offer probably wont be enough next off season as well. I think Wallace is determined to test free agency. Which is his right.
Great...I hope he does and I hope he comes back to play under the Franchise Tag. The Steelers still make out in that deal big time. Anyway, you don't know that it wasn't the right amounts of money for both sides. Could've been stuck over guaranteed money or incentive money. You have no idea, I have no idea. The only people that know are the ones negotiating. Yet...it's Mike Wallace who snubbed his nose at an alleged offer. How do you know the Steelers didn't pull an offer? You don't.


There's plenty of criticism of other players and coaches. You just have tunnel vision on Wallace.
Not true. Check the game day threads. I criticize him when it's warranted...actually a lot. If it's not his fault, I don't. Some "zulater drops" aren't his fault.


I killed Antonio Brown for his two fumbles after the Raiders game. Ike Taylor was destroyed by Steelers nation for his early season play. Willie Colon was crucified for his early season penalties. I could go on and on. But why I should I bother? You're going to beleive what you want anyway.
Right...and so do I. I just don't dwell on Mike Wallace like you and some others do...on a weekly basis. You've pretty much gotten over Brown's fumbles...yet he's screwed up several times. Ike has had his moments. But you bitch and move on. Not with Mike Wallace...

Maybe someday the "Zulater Drop Standard" will become the NFL Drop Standard. :jerkit:

Until then...keep killing Wallace. You're good at it.

[zulater]

OK everyone Wallace is off limits. don't ever say anything that's not complimentary about him ever again. Because his fan club can't take harsh words.

:hurt::baby::cry02:

Got it?! :salute:

[Seven]

Does anyone actually think Wallace is on this team next season?

[steeldawg]

Does anyone actually think Wallace is on this team next season?

Ya I think they keep him, if they werent going to keep him they wouldnt of tried to get a deal done before the season.

[zulater]

Does anyone actually think Wallace is on this team next season?

Too early to say. I'd lean 60-40 he stays for one more season via the franchise tag.

Of course that doesn't take it account who else might be up on their contract year next year or a year away. For instance if I was the Steelers I'd get an early start on wrapping up Pouncey to a long term deal. I'm not sure what's left on his original contract?

[Seven]

Too early to say. I'd lean 60-40 he stays for one more season via the franchise tag.

Of course that doesn't take it account who else might be up on their contract year next year or a year away. For instance if I was the Steelers I'd get an early start on wrapping up Pouncey to a long term deal. I'm not sure what's left on his original contract?

I'm not sure either, it can't be much.

Do you think the team would really franchise him? Early reports suggested they had no interest in doing so next year. Take that for what it's worth.

[zulater]

I'm not sure either, it can't be much.

Do you think the team would really franchise him? Early reports suggested they had no interest in doing so next year. Take that for what it's worth.

If they don't franchise him it's about 85% chance he's gone then.

[86WARD]

Does anyone actually think Wallace is on this team next season?

I say there's a good chance he gets the Franchise tag. But I'm not sure he stays on a one year deal. That would run the Steelers about $9.86M. The best thing that could happen for them is than Holmes gets cut from the Jets before April. That would take the current 2013 average from $9.86M to a little over $9M. Vincent Jackson's $13M salary really screws that average...

So if he does wind up making it through free agency, I think there's even a better chance that the Steelers try harder to extend him to get that $9.86 figure down to something manageable.

There is still a ton of time between now and then...a lot can happen.

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OK everyone Wallace is off limits. don't ever say anything that's not complimentary about him ever again. Because his fan club can't take harsh words.

:hurt::baby::cry02:

Got it?! :salute:

Nah...keep hating. I love that you can't admit your "harder" on him because of the holdout...denial is a funny thing. Literally.

[Count Steeler]

If Wallace wants more than $11mil, I think he will be gone. Another team will easily pony up that much for him. After all this is the new NFL.

I wonder how much his pride was hurt when he did not even get a sniff when he was an RFA. That might have done something to his head as well. Some guys press on and have an "Oh yeah!, I'll show you" attitude, while others may just say "Oh well".

[zulater]

I say there's a good chance he gets the Franchise tag. But I'm not sure he stays on a one year deal. That would run the Steelers about $9.86M. The best thing that could happen for them is than Holmes gets cut from the Jets before April. That would take the current 2013 average from $9.86M to a little over $9M. Vincent Jackson's $13M salary really screws that average...

So if he does wind up making it through free agency, I think there's even a better chance that the Steelers try harder to extend him to get that $9.86 figure down to something manageable.

There is still a ton of time between now and then...a lot can happen.

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Nah...keep hating. I love that you can't admit your "harder" on him because of the holdout...denial is a funny thing. Literally.

What's the subject matter of this thread? My interpertation it's about Mike Wallace, and whether he's worth the money he seemed to be demanding this offseason, and is sure to want this offseason. And what thoughts you have on whether the Steelers can afford him and whether they should pony up or not and why.

In the context of that subject matter of course you're going to get varying opinions, and those that feel he wont be worth the sort of cap hit it will take to keep him have to explain why. No?

If we start a similiar thread on Mendenhall we'll probably get pretty much the same sort of responce.

So unless we think the Steelers should give Wallace whatever the hell he wants how do we respond to this thread without coming off as "haters" by your definition?

Besides who the hell here is going from thread to thread trashing Wallace anyway? 90% of the critisism he draws is specific to this topic or in the game threads in responce to a play he did or did not make during a game . .

[GBMelBlount]

Receptions. On pace for more than he's ever had. TDs. On pace to tie his career high. The yardage and average are obviously down because of the the style of offense the Steelers run now.

Look, I'm not saying the guy is playing lights out...but when it comes to his play amongst some Steelers fans, he's overly criticized. Some warranted, some piled on due to nitpicking.

I understand your point and agree there is probably an element of truth to what you are saying.

[Seven]

I understand your point and agree there is probably an element of truth to what you are saying.

Don't you guys think we could be getting similar production out of Sanders though, in this scheme? He is a better route runner, probably has better hands (at the moment) and is far and away the better run blocker.

I'm not saying Wallace is playing awful, but in terms of the impact he's having I do think this is a mediocre year for him. Why pay a guy 9 - 11 mil a year when he doesn't make a huge impact compared what you have on the bench (speculative)?

[GBMelBlount]

Don't you guys think we could be getting similar production out of Sanders though, in this scheme? He is a better route runner, probably has better hands (at the moment) and is far and away the better run blocker.

I'm not saying Wallace is playing awful, but in terms of the impact he's having I do think this is a mediocre year for him. Why pay a guy 9 - 11 mil a year when he doesn't make a huge impact compared what you have on the bench (speculative)?

ABSOLUTELY! You hit the nail on the head.

In fact I think we should try to lock up Sanders right now at a discount.

[Psycho Ward 86]

you know who has more drops or as many drops as Wallace so far?

Jimmy Graham
Doug Martin
Victor Cruz
Calvin Johnson
Demaryius Thomas
Jason Witten
Eric Decker
Rob Gronkowski
Jordy Nelson
Reggie Wayne

they should all be cut though. i guess they should take paycuts or not get contract extensions though because they arent valuable or anything. Also i like how people are spazzing out about drops after 8 games when they were mesmerized by his performance for the first 48 games. this coming from one of the few people who scoffed at the notion that he can be an effective replacement for Santonio holmes. This team is on the verge of being a juggernaut that casts fear across the league on both sides of the ball and were supposed to ditch the most explosive player in the league? so much concern over this cap situation, and understandably so, out of the 2013 UFA's we have id say about 8 of these fellows are assets we need to keep or are imperative to our success. http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/07/early-look-at-the-steelers-2013-free-agents/. At the very least a franchise tag with contract talks in the works couldnt hurt, seeing how the 2014 offseason is going to be far less busy in terms of keeping our own guys. Did people just all of a sudden forget Ben is in his prime or do they just think any losses on offense can be compensated by how well he's throwing the ball? Build around your best talent, dont weaken it and expect that talent to automatically pick it up.

no reaction to this at all? i take it i made valid points?

[Seven]

no reaction to this at all? i take it i made valid points?

If we had Ward starting across the field with Jericho Cotchery, Nate Washington and Lee Mays on the bench I'd probably agree that keeping Wallace is imperative. But with Brown as option A and Sanders waiting in the wings and Cotchery and the promising Gilbreath behind them, I don't see how re-signing Wallace is a top priority?

[GBMelBlount]

no reaction to this at all? i take it i made valid points?

Well, it's just that there is not enough information.

Some of these guys are targeted 50% more than Wallace....so naturally they could have more drops but a lower drop percentage.

I just don't think it's completely in context.

Regardless, while he is arguably #1 receiver caliber for many teams, we are blessed to have an amazing (imo) corp of 5 with Brown, Sanders, Wallace, Cotchery and Heath....si I personally don't feel he is a "must sign" to the degree he would be if he were on most other teams.

[Psycho Ward 86]

If we had Ward starting across the field with Jericho Cotchery, Nate Washington and Lee Mays on the bench I'd probably agree that keeping Wallace is imperative. But with Brown as option A and Sanders waiting in the wings and Cotchery and the promising Gilbreath behind them, I don't see how re-signing Wallace is a top priority?

in his 3 starts, sanders has 6 catches for 116 yards. thats an average of 2 catches and 19 yards a game. i dont see why theres so much confidence in him starting across from brown. he's definitely a great #3 though. my concern is can he be much much more productive as a #2 than as a #3 going against starting corners as opposed to nickelbacks? i doubt it so far. cotch is a fine backup, wont argue that. i was pimping gilreath during the preseasons pretty hard but theres too little we know about him to have any sort of legitmate confidence in his abilities. he hardly ever got thrown at back in college with the badgers. he was just a return guy, and if youre almost exclusively just known as a return guy in college, then the prospects of you succeeding in the nfl arent looking too good. @melblount, valid point,

[86WARD]

If we had Ward starting across the field with Jericho Cotchery, Nate Washington and Lee Mays on the bench I'd probably agree that keeping Wallace is imperative. But with Brown as option A and Sanders waiting in the wings and Cotchery and the promising Gilbreath behind them, I don't see how re-signing Wallace is a top priority?

And that line up while good, is lesser without Wallace. Wallace makes the team better whether he's catching the ball or "vanishing" into a decoy roll.

[steeldawg]

Don't you guys think we could be getting similar production out of Sanders though, in this scheme? He is a better route runner, probably has better hands (at the moment) and is far and away the better run blocker.

I'm not saying Wallace is playing awful, but in terms of the impact he's having I do think this is a mediocre year for him. Why pay a guy 9 - 11 mil a year when he doesn't make a huge impact compared what you have on the bench (speculative)?

Why what has sanders done that makes you think he could be a number 1? I also dont understand this notion that wallace is a bad route runner, for someone who runs bad routes he sure does get open alot. Also it doesnt matter if you think his year is mediocre, because hes on pace for a career year and if your going to pay your number 2 receiver 8 mil a year for less production how do you not give your number 1 9-11 mil a year. If anything by giving our #2 8 mil a year we set the price tag for mike wallace, unless you can convince a guy that hes the number 1 and even though you out produce number 2 we want to pay you less than him.

[GBMelBlount]

steeldawg

if your going to pay your number 2 receiver 8 mil a year for less production how do you not give your number 1 9-11 mil a year.


Did someone suggest paying Sanders 8 million a year?...if so I missed it.

[steeldawg]

Did someone suggest paying Sanders 8 million a year?...if so I missed it.

Our number 2 is brown

[GBMelBlount]

Our number 2 is brown

Sounds like your family eats a lot of fiber. :chuckle:

[steeldawg]

Sounds like your family eats a lot of fiber.

Lol I just read what i wrote out loud.

[tube517]

Sounds like your family eats a lot of fiber. :chuckle:

:rofl2:

Thanks GB, I have to clean up spit up beer on my screen.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Sounds like your family eats a lot of fiber. :chuckle:

lol. but seriously to steeldawg's comment. im on the same page as you as far as doubting sanders ability to become an effective starter, but i believe brown would clearly be the #1

[HollywoodSteel]

And that line up while good, is lesser without Wallace. Wallace makes the team better whether he's catching the ball or "vanishing" into a decoy roll.

I don't think you'll find anyone here who disagrees with you. I don't think you'll find anyone who thinks that Wallace hasn't been an absolute steal for what we've been paying him, or or what he's being paid his year. The only question on the table is how much should the Steelers be willing to pay him going forward. I don't think that's a very easy question to answer. There are a lot of variables to consider. Will the cap go up? Will we cut or renegotiate Harrison's deal? Will we not be able to sign someone else that we might need more?

Those are tough questions that people get paid a lot of money to answer, and it's the kind of question that people can sometimes lose their jobs over when they get it wrong. Historically the Steelers have done better than most, and I can only hope they'll get it right again.

[HollywoodSteel]

At any rate, now is the time to see what Wallace is made of. We might have to go through a stretch without Brown so even more pressure will be on Wallace to be clutch. I personally have faith that the kid has more heart than some give him credit for but maybe that's wishful thinking. All I know is I'm happy to have all our receivers this year. Depth is nice.

[Seven]

in his 3 starts, sanders has 6 catches for 116 yards. thats an average of 2 catches and 19 yards a game. i dont see why theres so much confidence in him starting across from brown. he's definitely a great #3 though. my concern is can he be much much more productive as a #2 than as a #3 going against starting corners as opposed to nickelbacks? i doubt it so far. cotch is a fine backup, wont argue that. i was pimping gilreath during the preseasons pretty hard but theres too little we know about him to have any sort of legitmate confidence in his abilities. he hardly ever got thrown at back in college with the badgers. he was just a return guy, and if youre almost exclusively just known as a return guy in college, then the prospects of you succeeding in the nfl arent looking too good. @melblount, valid point,

Yeah, but isn't that almost always the case? Haha. It'd be great to have proven "starters in waiting" at every position but that's a luxury. Sometimes you just have to roll with your gut.

All I'm saying is that I think there are more critical positions we need to address before worrying about Wallace. Now, if this was still Brucie's offense I'd probably feel differently, but I see a scheme in place where Sanders could really evolve into a great receiver.

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And that line up while good, is lesser without Wallace. Wallace makes the team better whether he's catching the ball or "vanishing" into a decoy roll.

But that's the thing, he really hasn't been a decoy this year. Haley doesn't take many deep shots and when he has they've been to Brown. Coverage hasn't rolled toward Wallace much at all this season.

[zulater]

lol. but seriously to steeldawg's comment. im on the same page as you as far as doubting sanders ability to become an effective starter, but i believe brown would clearly be the #1

There is no number one. There's an x, y, and z. And x, and y are equally important in most offensive schemes unless you have a standout x or y, then the emphasis may shift to that player. For example in the Patriots offense when Moss was at his best there was more focus to the x receiver. But after he mentally bailed the focus shifted to the y ( Welker). And still continued to be successfull

In our offense I don't think there's any strong slant ( pardon the pun) to either the x or y. It's just a matter of match ups, coverage, who's getting open, and what Ben's seeing and feeling in a specific game or on an indidual play.

I do think on 3rd downs Ben is more apt to go to Brown. In my opinion this is based on Antonio's ability to make catches and additional yardage in tight coverage.

Regardless; if Wallace does depart in the offseason I believe the plan would be to leave Antonio at the y, and make Sanders the x.

Again no number one or two, both equally important in the general scheme of things.

Basically Antonio is the new Hines Ward. And anyone who thinks that Burress and Holmes were more important to Steelers past success just wasn't paying attention. Remember the Steelers went to and won SB XL with Cedric the entertainer, er I mean Wilson as the x receiver.

[GBMelBlount]

It looks like Wallace and Sanders have a similar rate of targets per reception and unless I am missing something I have not seen anything that indicates that Sanders does not have good hands.

So...even though Sanders only has 1,000 career receiving yards I am comfortable saying that he has good hands, runs good routes, is fast and athletic, makes plays and is a worthy number 2 receiver....and arguably number 1 on many teams with a little more development and body of work.

Where is Wallace better? Yards per catch and TD's. Hands down.

So I do think people are being a little hard on Wallace but I also think that Sanders has huge upside and is under the radar at the moment llargely due to his injury last year.

But the bottom line to me is that we are incredibly fortunate to be able to have these debates about 3 receivers who together are arguably the best receiving trio in the nfl.

[steeldawg]

I dont see sanders as a number 1, there is so much more to being a number 1 than having good hands. Right now hes playing a position where hes covered by nickel backs and linebackers and hes got 24 receptions and 1 td. I dont know how that transalates to playing the number 1 position when your facing the best corners with safety help.

[zulater]

I dont see sanders as a number 1, there is so much more to being a number 1 than having good hands. Right now hes playing a position where hes covered by nickel backs and linebackers and hes got 24 receptions and 1 td. I dont know how that transalates to playing the number 1 position when your facing the best corners with safety help.

Sanders has been limited by injury and opportunity. The Steelers believe him to be fully capable of starting as an x or a y from what I've been led to believe from every media source close to the team.

Regardless, we wont have long to find out with him getting increased playing time with Antonio down with injury, probably for at least a couple more weeks.

So don't be so quick to rush to judgement and pronounce him incaple when we really don't have a sufficient body of evidence to say either way right now.

As for myself I'm quite confident that Emanuel will step up and knock it out of the park once he gets his turn. .

[Seven]

I dont see sanders as a number 1, there is so much more to being a number 1 than having good hands. Right now hes playing a position where hes covered by nickel backs and linebackers and hes got 24 receptions and 1 td. I dont know how that transalates to playing the number 1 position when your facing the best corners with safety help.

24 receptions on 39 targets for 304 and a TD? Not shabby at all for how few snaps he gets.

[steeldawg]

24 receptions on 39 targets for 304 and a TD? Not shabby at all for how few snaps he gets.

how many snaps is he getting? I know the giants game he was on the field for 56 of the 70 snaps and he had 2 catches one was a td though

[zulater]

One last myth to dispel then I'm done with this thread, as I feel every point has been sufficiently addressed and I don't want to come across as a "hater" towards a player that I want nothing more than for him to succeed.

To wit, the point has been made to disparage Brown that the contract he accepted was less than what was offered to Wallace ergo the Steelers have placed a higher value on Wallace than Brown and see him as a more valuable player.

That the Steelers think Wallace is a better overall player than Brown may or may not be true. That Wallace was offered more money than Brown accepted is indisputable.

But the why doesn't neccesarily have anything to do with the above. The Steelers offered less money to Brown for the simple fact that he was at an earlair point of his contract than Wallace. Buy early get it cheaper, that's a great business practice on the Steelers part. Brown as a 6th round draft pick playing on his first contract with a couple years to go on it was getting virtual peanuts as far as an NFL player goes. So it was an easy sell all around and everyone benifits.

Anyway bottom line comparing the two offers is not even apples to oranges,, Wallace played his first contract and had more negotiating power. It's as simple as that.

[steeldawg]

One last myth to dispel then I'm done with this thread, as I feel every point has been sufficiently addressed and I don't want to come across as a "hater" towards a player that I want nothing more than for him to succeed.

To wit, the point has been made to disparage Brown that the contract he accepted was less than what was offered to Wallace ergo the Steelers have placed a higher value on Wallace than Brown and see him as a more valuable player.

That the Steelers think Wallace is a better overall player than Brown may or may not be true. That Wallace was offered more money than Brown accepted is indisputable.

But the why doesn't neccesarily have anything to do with the above. The Steelers offered less money to Brown for the simple fact that he was at an earlair point of his contract than Wallace. Buy early get it cheaper, that's a great business practice on the Steelers part. Brown as a 6th round draft pick playing on his first contract with a couple years to go on it was getting virtual peanuts as far as an NFL player goes. So it was an easy sell all around and everyone benifits.

Anyway bottom line comparing the two offers is not even apples to oranges,, Wallace played his first contract and had more negotiating power. It's as simple as that.

I agree with you and heres why, it goes back to my brown is overpaid statement. If your willing to give brown 8 mil a year for his production, then based on wallaces production he should be paid more 9 -11 mil, we set the price for wallace by giving brown 8 mil.

[zulater]

how many snaps is he getting? I know the giants game he was on the field for 56 of the 70 snaps and he had 2 catches one was a td though

But touchdowns are everything Dawg! Isn't that the chorus you always sing?By the way both of his catches had a huge impact on the game. And besides Wallace only had 3 catches against the G men, with an additional two series ( before Brown was hurt)to work with. The game plan against the Giants wasn't really condusive to any one receiver racking up huge numbers.

Again Sanders will get the next couple games ( at least) to prove his worth. What's wrong with taking a wait and see approach?

[Seven]

But touchdowns are everything Dawg! Isn't that the chorus you always sing?By the way both of his catches had a huge impact on the game. And besides Wallace only had 3 catches against the G men, with an additional two series ( before Brown was hurt)to work with. The game plan against the Giants wasn't really condusive to any one receiver racking up huge numbers.

Again Sanders will get the next couple games ( at least) to prove his worth. What's wrong with taking a wait and see approach?

That's one of the best parts of Sanders game. He seems to come up at pretty big moments. Third downs, final drives.

[steeldawg]

But touchdowns are everything Dawg! Isn't that the chorus you always sing?By the way both of his catches had a huge impact on the game. And besides Wallace only had 3 catches against the G men, with an additional two series ( before Brown was hurt)to work with. The game plan against the Giants wasn't really condusive to any one receiver racking up huge numbers.

Again Sanders will get the next couple games ( at least) to prove his worth. What's wrong with taking a wait and see approach?

Hey i give him credit for the TD im just saying as moves up from the the number 3 to the 2 he will have to play against better coverage. So in 56 snaps 2 catches does make a strong case for him jumping from 3 to 1.

[Seven]

Hey i give him credit for the TD im just saying as moves up from the the number 3 to the 2 he will have to play against better coverage. So in 56 snaps 2 catches does make a strong case for him jumping from 3 to 1.

How many of those 56 snaps were runs? I'd bet a hell of a lot.

[steeldawg]

But touchdowns are everything Dawg! Isn't that the chorus you always sing?By the way both of his catches had a huge impact on the game. And besides Wallace only had 3 catches against the G men, with an additional two series ( before Brown was hurt)to work with. The game plan against the Giants wasn't really condusive to any one receiver racking up huge numbers.

Again Sanders will get the next couple games ( at least) to prove his worth. What's wrong with taking a wait and see approach?

I am taking a wait and see approach, i said so far sanders had shown me nothing that would indicate hes a number 1, however ive read several posts that are ready to crown him.

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That's one of the best parts of Sanders game. He seems to come up at pretty big moments. Third downs, final drives.

Now you have totally discounted wallaces impact on games, but your telling me sanders is catching the ball in big moments. Yes his catches were big catches, but give credit were credit is due, wallaces catch was enormous in that game and it wasnt just the catch he turned an 8yd pass into a 51 yard td.

[steeldawg]

How many of those 56 snaps were runs? I'd bet a hell of a lot.

Meaning? Its not like other receivers are getting a chance to catch the ball on running plays.

[zulater]

Hey i give him credit for the TD im just saying as moves up from the the number 3 to the 2 he will have to play against better coverage. So in 56 snaps 2 catches does make a strong case for him jumping from 3 to 1.

No more or less so than Wallace's 3 catches with two additional series does.

[steeldawg]

No more or less so than Wallace's 3 catches with two additional series does.

Except wallace is already the 1 he has the resume to back it up. If sanders comes out and starts putting up some big games then i will say ok, but im not going to look at a game where he played a number 2 and caught 2 balls and say this guy could be a 1 on nfl teams.

[zulater]

I agree with you and heres why, it goes back to my brown is overpaid statement. If your willing to give brown 8 mil a year for his production, then based on wallaces production he should be paid more 9 -11 mil, we set the price for wallace by giving brown 8 mil.

How again is Brown overpaid? He's a solid and improving multi faceted player ( not his fault two punt return td's have been called back)who consistently moves the sticks on 3rd downs.

We have a thread with a poll on the matter, and your opinion that he's overpaid put's you on a virtual island.

Now to the point that Wallace is underpaid this year. No question about it he is. But that's partially of his own making. The Steelers made it an offseason priority to lock him up long term and offered him a deal they were stunned he didn't accept, or at least use it as a basic to get a deal done.

That's why most of us believe he's gone after this year. When the Steelers place that high a priority on something they usually get it done. ( Woodley, Heath Miller, Timmons etc etc...) That they couldn't close the gap on his demands means he's going to want to test free agency.

I think the franchise tag will eat up too much single season cap space, so the steelers will set their sights on re upping Pouncey or someone like that.

[Seven]

Now you have totally discounted wallaces impact on games, but your telling me sanders is catching the ball in big moments. Yes his catches were big catches, but give credit were credit is due, wallaces catch was enormous in that game and it wasnt just the catch he turned an 8yd pass into a 51 yard td.

Where the hell did I "discount" Wallace's impact on games? All I said is that it hasn't been as significant as in years past.



Meaning? Its not like other receivers are getting a chance to catch the ball on running plays.

What the actual hell does that have to do with ANYTHING? I'm not talking about other receivers, I'm talking about Sanders.

[steeldawg]

How again is Brown overpaid? He's a solid and improving multi faceted player ( not his fault two punt return td's have been called back)who consistently moves the sticks on 3rd downs.

We have a thread with a poll on the matter, and your opinion that he's overpaid put's you on a virtual island.

Now to the point that Wallace is underpaid this year. No question about it he is. But that's partially of his own making. The Steelers made it an offseason priority to lock him up long term and offered him a deal they were stunned he didn't accept, or at least use it as a basic to get a deal done.

That's why most of us believe he's gone after this year. When the Steelers place that high a priority on something they usually get it done. ( Woodley, Heath Miller, Timmons etc etc...) That they couldn't close the gap on his demands means he's going to want to test free agency.

I think the franchise tag will eat up too much single season cap space, so the steelers will set their sights on re upping Pouncey or someone like that.

You really do not see how paying brown 8 mil sets the table for wallace to be paid more?

[zulater]

Except wallace is already the 1 he has the resume to back it up. If sanders comes out and starts putting up some big games then i will say ok, but im not going to look at a game where he played a number 2 and caught 2 balls and say this guy could be a 1 on nfl teams.

Do you really watch the games? Do you see the way teams flip receivers, the way that no corner is on the same receiver every play? You making this out to be way more significant than it really is.

And besides, as I've pointed out numerous times the Steelers advanced to and won a Super Bowl with Ced Wilson as the x receiver. So please don't make the case that the Steelers can't thrive without Wallace.

We all hope something gets worked out and he stays. But if he doesn't the Steelers will go on all the same.

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You really do not see how paying brown 8 mil sets the table for wallace to be paid more?

It will. No doubt. But probably not for the Steelers for reasons already stated.

[steeldawg]

Where the hell did I "discount" Wallace's impact on games? All I said is that it hasn't been as significant as in years past.



What the actual hell does that have to do with ANYTHING? I'm not talking about other receivers, I'm talking about Sanders.

Yes saying his impact in games has lessened is discounting his impact in games.

The point to the second part, even if alot of those snaps are runs that doesnt put sanders at a disadvantage.

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Do you really watch the games? Do you see the way teams flip receivers, the way that no corner is on the same receiver every play? You making this out to be way more significant than it really is.

And besides, as I've pointed out numerous times the Steelers advanced to and won a Super Bowl with Ced Wilson as the x receiver. So please don't make the case that the Steelers can't thrive without Wallace.

We all hope something gets worked out and he stays. But if he doesn't the Steelers will go on all the same.

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It will. No doubt. But probably not for the Steelers for reasons already stated.

That superbowl team was a totally different offense, built on running the ball and defense. Im not saying the steelers cant survive without wallace, ive only made the point that hes worth keeping and i think his impact on this offense is bigger than antonio browns.

[steeldawg]

Do you really watch the games? Do you see the way teams flip receivers, the way that no corner is on the same receiver every play? You making this out to be way more significant than it really is.

And besides, as I've pointed out numerous times the Steelers advanced to and won a Super Bowl with Ced Wilson as the x receiver. So please don't make the case that the Steelers can't thrive without Wallace.

We all hope something gets worked out and he stays. But if he doesn't the Steelers will go on all the same.

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It will. No doubt. But probably not for the Steelers for reasons already stated.

How can it not for the steelers when they already offered him 10 mil a year.

[Seven]

The point to the second part, even if alot of those snaps are runs that doesnt put sanders at a disadvantage.


WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT DOESN'T PUT HIM AT A DISADVANTAGE??? Disadvantage as compared to what??? I'm not comparing him to other receivers!!! JESUS CHRIST I literally have my hand on my forehead in disbelief at the constant irrelevancy of your responses on every single topic you post in!

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I'm leaving this thread before I lose my mind. What is the point of making actual arguments if you're just posting them for someone who doesn't understand them anyway.

[zulater]

Yes saying his impact in games has lessened is discounting his impact in games.

The point to the second part, even if alot of those snaps are runs that doesnt put sanders at a disadvantage.

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That superbowl team was a totally different offense, built on running the ball and defense. Im not saying the steelers cant survive without wallace, ive only made the point that hes worth keeping and i think his impact on this offense is bigger than antonio browns.

Yes he's worth keeping.

But can he be kept at a cap friendly number?

And does he really even want to be kept?

I'm convinced the Steelers wont sign him to a franchise tender. (they could use the franchise tag as a time buy though) Simply put they can't afford it. Because with a franchise tag all that money counts on that year's cap.

So it comes down to this, having gone through what he did last offseason and playing for much less than his market value this season. He's going to want to make up the money he lost this season. I think the only way he can do that is by being an unrestricted free agent.

So if he wants to test the free agency waters, the Steelers can stall him with the franchise tag, but both he, his agent, and the steelers know it's a bluff, so in the end Mike will determine his own fate. And my guess is he'll want to maximize this opportunity via free agency.

Which is his absolute right, and I wont begrudge him if he does.

So I'll enjoy it now, and hope I'm wrong and he stays at the right number.

[steeldawg]

Yes he's worth keeping.

But can he be kept at a cap friendly number?

And does he really even want to be kept?

I'm convinced the Steelers wont sign him to a franchise tender. (they could use the franchise tag as a time buy though) Simply put they can't afford it. Because with a franchise tag all that money counts on that year's cap.

So it comes down to this, having gone through what he did last offseason and playing for much less than his market value this season. He's going to want to make up the money he lost this season. I think the only way he can do that is by being an unrestricted free agent.

So if he wants to test the free agency waters, the Steelers can stall him with the franchise tag, but both he, his agent, and the steelers know it's a bluff, so in the end Mike will determine his own fate. And my guess is he'll want to maximize this opportunity via free agency.

Which is his absolute right, and I wont begrudge him if he does.

So I'll enjoy it now, and hope I'm wrong and he stays at the right number.

The steelers have been pretty clear they want to keep him so i think they will get the deal done.

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WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT DOESN'T PUT HIM AT A DISADVANTAGE??? Disadvantage as compared to what??? I'm not comparing him to other receivers!!! JESUS CHRIST I literally have my hand on my forehead in disbelief at the constant irrelevancy of your responses on every single topic you post in!

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I'm leaving this thread before I lose my mind. What is the point of making actual arguments if you're just posting them for someone who doesn't understand them anyway.

You said hes getting limited snaps then i said he got 56 against the giants then you said ya but alot were runs. Ok so there was running plays what is your point? even if it half of his snaps were runs its still not a great game.

[zulater]

The steelers have been pretty clear they want to keep him so i think they will get the deal done.

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You said hes getting limited snaps then i said he got 56 against the giants then you said ya but alot were runs. Ok so there was running plays what is your point? even if it half of his snaps were runs its still not a great game.

But Wallace's one more catch was?

[steeldawg]

But Wallace's one more catch was?

Didnt say it was

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But Wallace's one more catch was?

The point was that sanders has not done anything that would make me think hes a number 1

[Psycho Ward 86]

you can sugarcoat it all you want folks...in his 3 starts, sanders still only has 6 catches for 116 yards. thats an average of 2 catches and 19 yards a game. i dont see why theres so much confidence in him starting across from brown. he's definitely a great #3 though. my concern is can he be much much more productive as a #2 than as a #3 going against starting corners as opposed to nickelbacks? i doubt it so far. why are all of you so focused on just handing out reasons why wallace should be gone? why are so many of you ignoring the lack of production from sanders when he starts? wallace being gone was never the most worrisome part. the most worrisome part was what his replacement would or wouldnt be able to do

[zulater]

Didnt say it was

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The point was that sanders has not done anything that would make me think hes a number 1

Well by your definition specific to the Giants game neither did Wallace.

[GBMelBlount]

he's (Sanders) is definitely a great #3 though. my concern is can he be much much more productive as a #2 than as a #3 going against starting corners as opposed to nickelbacks? i doubt it so far.

He was neck and neck with brown their whole rookie year for #3 receiver.

Last year he started well and had a season ending injury.

This year he has only had opportunities as a #3 receiver.

Brown's injury may very well provide an opportunity for us to see how good he really is.

Why don't we revisit this in a month....

[zulater]

you can sugarcoat it all you want folks...in his 3 starts, sanders still only has 6 catches for 116 yards. thats an average of 2 catches and 19 yards a game. i dont see why theres so much confidence in him starting across from brown. he's definitely a great #3 though. my concern is can he be much much more productive as a #2 than as a #3 going against starting corners as opposed to nickelbacks? i doubt it so far. why are all of you so focused on just handing out reasons why wallace should be gone? why are so many of you ignoring the lack of production from sanders when he starts? wallace being gone was never the most worrisome part. the most worrisome part was what his replacement would or wouldnt be able to do

What games did Sanders start?

I know he played pretty damn well against the Broncos in the playoffs last year.

Ben has a good rapport with Sanders. I'm very confident that Sanders will fill in for Brown quite well.

Hope that doesn't dissapoint you, because it sure comes across that way. Well actually I do hope it dissapoints you if you've put loyalty to one player ( Wallace) ahead of the team.

[Psycho Ward 86]

ill be pleasantly surprised if sanders fills in well. if we lose wallace my confidence will be shaken but ill be rooting for him. my loyalty is in the team. i hope your bitterness towards wallace though doesnt blind you.

[zulater]

OK I see now that Sanders was the starter in the Bengal and Redskin game this year.What a load of shit to judge him as a starter based on his stats those games. :doh: Seriously! Did he play starters reps those games? Was he on the field as often as Wallace or Brown in either of those games? Come on people. I don't know what the coaching staff was trying to prove by putting him in as the starter over Brown on the opening play of the opening series in those games. But that's all it was. The opening play of the opening series, and wham you're listed as the starter. But anyone who watched those games and has an IQ over 70 knows that Brown and Wallace got more playing time and more opportunities that game.

Wow, just wow!!!! :frusty:

[Psycho Ward 86]

What games did Sanders start?

I know he played pretty damn well against the Broncos in the playoffs last year.

Ben has a good rapport with Sanders. I'm very confident that Sanders will fill in for Brown quite well.

Hope that doesn't dissapoint you, because it sure comes across that way. Well actually I do hope it dissapoints you if you've put loyalty to one player ( Wallace) ahead of the team.
he's started against the giants and bengals this year and the browns his rookie year.

http://www.nfl.com/player/emmanuelsanders/497322/gamelogs

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OK I see now that Sanders was the starter in the Bengal and Redskin game this year.What a load of shit to judge him as a starter based on his stats those games. :doh: Seriously! Did he play starters reps those games? Was he on the field as often as Wallace or Brown in either of those games? Come on people. I don't know what the coaching staff was trying to prove by putting him in as the starter over Brown on the opening play of the opening series in those games. But that's all it was. The opening play of the opening series, and wham you're listed as the starter. But anyone who watched tose games and has an IQ over 70 knows that Brown and Wallace got more playing time and more opportunities that game.

Wow, just wow!!!! :frusty:

you know why brown and wallace got more playing time and more opportunities in those games? because they're both better. a lot better. lol.

[zulater]

ill be pleasantly surprised if sanders fills in well. if we lose wallace my confidence will be shaken but ill be rooting for him. my loyalty is in the team. i hope your bitterness towards wallace though doesnt blind you.

I like Wallace just fine. I hope he's the best receiver in the league the next 8 games.

[Psycho Ward 86]

OK I see now that Sanders was the starter in the Bengal and Redskin game this year.What a load of shit to judge him as a starter based on his stats those games. :doh: Seriously! Did he play starters reps those games? Was he on the field as often as Wallace or Brown in either of those games? Come on people. I don't know what the coaching staff was trying to prove by putting him in as the starter over Brown on the opening play of the opening series in those games. But that's all it was. The opening play of the opening series, and wham you're listed as the starter. But anyone who watched tose games and has an IQ over 70 knows that Brown and Wallace got more playing time and more opportunities that game.

Wow, just wow!!!! :frusty:

you know why brown and wallace got more playing time and more opportunities in those games? because they're both better. a lot better. lol.

[zulater]

he's started against the giants and bengals this year and the browns his rookie year.

http://www.nfl.com/player/emmanuelsanders/497322/gamelogs

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you know why brown and wallace got more playing time and more opportunities in those games? because they're both better. a lot better. lol.

Yeah I got it already.

Didn't we win all those games? Yeah we did.

And do I think Sanders is better than Wallace or Brown? No I don't. They're different types of players and they're all good in their own ways. And all are capable of rising to the situation when called upon in my opinion. Sanders will hold up his end of the bargain while Brown recovers from his injury.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Yeah I got it already.

Didn't we win all those games? Yeah we did.

And do I think Sanders is better than Wallace or Brown? No I don't. They're different types of players and they're all good in their own ways. And all are capable of rising to the situation when called upon in my opinion. Sanders will hold up his end of the bargain while Brown recovers from his injury.

i think you misunderstood me a bit. i feel fine with sanders filling in for a couple games while brown is out right now. just not entire seasons as a fulltime starter.

[zulater]

you know why brown and wallace got more playing time and more opportunities in those games? because they're both better. a lot better. lol.

Who's coming across as the hater here?

And my point was even though Sanders was the starter in those games he didn't play starters minutes. ( to borrow a term from basketball) So how can you logically cite his stats in those games as proving he's incapable of being effective in that capacity due to substandard production?

Seriously, how many die hard Steeler fans even knew Sanders was the starter over Brown in those two games this year?

[Carolina Steelers]

its funny to me how we argue who is worth the money and who should get more snaps whos the true #1 on this team, i agree all 3 WR's bring something different but we need all 3 on this team as long as ben is are starter he will benefit by having the best WR corp in the league. I believe Wallace is worth keeping around not maybe what he was asking but right around Brown's money maybe a little more IMO. People saying Wallace having a down yr but still on pace for over 1000 yds and maybe double digits TD thats production hard to replace

[GBMelBlount]

Carolina Steelers

its funny to me how we argue who is worth the money and who should get more snaps whos the true #1 on this team,

I agree.



Carolina Steelers

i agree all 3 WR's bring something different but we need all 3 on this team as long as ben is are starter he will benefit by having the best WR corp in the league.

I agree.


Carolina Steelers

I believe Wallace is worth keeping around not maybe what he was asking but right around Brown's money maybe a little more IMO.

I agree


Carolina Steelers

People saying Wallace having a down yr but still on pace for over 1000 yds and maybe double digits TD thats production hard to replace

I agree.

Is there anyone who feels we don't have 3 very good receivers that each bring something different and that we would like to keep all 3 if we can?

Even though there is a bit of arguing going on, perhaps none of us are really that far apart if you look at the big picture.

[Count Steeler]

If the cap room is available and it does not adversely affect the rest of the team. We are talking about $23-25mil for 3 receivers. Can we then spread out $100mil over 50 other players. Don't forget, Woodley 9m, Ben 12m, Timmons 7.5m, Harrison 8m, Polamalu 8m? That is already about 43.5mil. That leaves 56.5m for 45 players. Doable?

[Steeldude]

If the cap room is available and it does not adversely affect the rest of the team. We are talking about $23-25mil for 3 receivers. Can we then spread out $100mil over 50 other players. Don't forget, Woodley 9m, Ben 12m, Timmons 7.5m, Harrison 8m, Polamalu 8m? That is already about 43.5mil. That leaves 56.5m for 45 players. Doable?

It's worse...

The cap hits for 2013 are as follows...

BR - $20,595,000

Woodley - $13,240,000

Timmons - $11,160,000

Polamalu - $10,387,500

Harrison - $10,035,000

Taylor - $9,454,166

Miller - $7,958,500

That's $82,830,166 for 7 players. So far the only reason I have heard to pay Wallace a huge contract is because he's fast. Thankfully Al Davis doesn't own the Steelers. It seems to me the fans supporting Wallace in this thread do not care who gets cut just as long as Wallace is retained.

[zulater]

If the cap room is available and it does not adversely affect the rest of the team. We are talking about $23-25mil for 3 receivers. Can we then spread out $100mil over 50 other players. Don't forget, Woodley 9m, Ben 12m, Timmons 7.5m, Harrison 8m, Polamalu 8m? That is already about 43.5mil. That leaves 56.5m for 45 players. Doable?

Because there's two questions. One is the one you've posed here.

And the second is does Wallace really want to stay? Don't get me wrong, I know he enjoys being a Steeler, likes his situation with the team, and his teammates. But he's playing for less than half of what he's worth this season when he easily could have signed a contract last summer that would have put tens of millions already in his pocket. In other words he's come this far, so he's not going to cheat himself and give the Steelers a home team discount. He's going to want to take advantage of unrestricted free agency. That's the only way he makes up for the money he lost this year.

I don't want Wallace to leave. But being totally pragmatic about it it's hard to imagine him staying beyond this season. .

[Count Steeler]

It's worse...

The cap hits for 2013 are as follows...

BR - $20,595,000

Woodley - $13,240,000

Timmons - $11,160,000

Polamalu - $10,387,500

Harrison - $10,035,000

Taylor - $9,454,166

Miller - $7,958,500

That's $82,830,166 for 7 players. So far the only reason I have heard to pay Wallace a huge contract is because he's fast. Thankfully Al Davis doesn't own the Steelers. It seems to me the fans supporting Wallace in this thread do not care who gets cut just as long as Wallace is retained.

And if we throw $25m at 3 wideouts, that leaves about $15mil for 43 players. Omar has some work to do.

[GBMelBlount]

Right off I see several at $10 million who are in their 30's and arguably past their prime.

With Brown locked up...IFF Sanders proves he is number 2 caliber losing Wallace would be unfortunate, but not devastating.

[HollywoodSteel]

Because there's two questions. One is the one you've posed here.

And the second is does Wallace really want to stay? Don't get me wrong, I know he enjoys being a Steeler, likes his situation with the team, and his teammates. But he's playing for less than half of what he's worth this season when he easily could have signed a contract last summer that would have put tens of millions already in his pocket. In other words he's come this far, so he's not going to cheat himself and give the Steelers a home team discount. He's going to want to take advantage of unrestricted free agency. That's the only way he makes up for the money he lost this year.

I don't want Wallace to leave. But being totally pragmatic about it it's hard to imagine him staying beyond this season. .

This is an excellent point, Zu. After this season, the question is not, "how much do we think he's worth?" It's, "will the Steelers be willing to outbid or match what some other team, who really needs a receiver, is willing to pay him?" Even if he has an off year, the answer is still probably no. I think there are teams out there that will pay through the nose for his explosiveness and potential alone. And you know what? Good for him. I hope he stays healthy and makes enough money to live very well and provide for his family for the rest of his life. I'd love for him to remain a Steeler but I certainly won't fault the kid one way or another.

I would have liked to have locked him over last offseason but I understand why that wasn't so easy. It's not the Steelers don't like him, or that they were trying to punish him for holding out. It's just a very difficult calculus to perform when dealing with the realities of the cap, and the fact that there are so many unknown variables that could affect how we spend money for 2013 and beyond. It was hard not to just take him for the one more year at a bargain and then see what happens.

[Steeldude]

the question is not, "how much do we think he's worth?" It's, "will the Steelers be willing to outbid or match what some other team, who really needs a receiver, is willing to pay him?"

Aren't they pretty much synonymous? The Steelers have an idea of how much he is worth.

So far all I see out of Wallace is speed. What else does he bring that another fast WR cannot bring, for a cheaper price? That's a question that has gone unanswered by the "Pay Wallace whatever he wants" supporters. IMO, Wallace is the beneficiary of BR playing school yard ball.

[Pristas]

It's worse...

The cap hits for 2013 are as follows...

BR - $20,595,000

Woodley - $13,240,000

Timmons - $11,160,000

Polamalu - $10,387,500

Harrison - $10,035,000

Taylor - $9,454,166

Miller - $7,958,500

That's $82,830,166 for 7 players. So far the only reason I have heard to pay Wallace a huge contract is because he's fast. Thankfully Al Davis doesn't own the Steelers. It seems to me the fans supporting Wallace in this thread do not care who gets cut just as long as Wallace is retained.

We may have seen the last of Polamalu and Harrison in a Steeler's uniform this season.

My opinion is spend the money with the receivers. Might as well have cohesion with your QB and receivers whom Ben is familiar with. You've got to cut the guys who are injury prone, and older/past their prime. Those are Harrison and Polamalu. They can also do the "extend the contract by spreading it out further and paying more money for longer" thing with Ben to free up space.

I'd really like to see Spence step up next season in a big way (though I have my doubts). And us grab the best Safety available in round 1, moving up if necessary. Then take like 4 linebackers in rounds 2-5 for a massive training camp competition. For the first time in I don't know how long, it would seem that the o-line is solid and has some depth. The defensive front looks good too. Guys like Heyward and Hood are constantly improving... think about how long it took Keisel and Smith to come into their own. Our d-backs look pretty solid and Lewis is emerging as an excellent corner. Running backs have depth, need I say more? We already have all the wide receivers we need on the team. Tight end and fullback seem to be locked up. Kick, snap and punt are solid. What does that leave? Safety and Linebacker. Get it done Colbert. I wonder who he is salivating over right now? I'll bet all he does is watch college football every Saturday, all day long, with a notebook and a 12 pack of Iron City. I can imagine his wife fussing at him and him saying "I'm working here, leave me alone" LOL!

[steelreserve]

why are all of you so focused on just handing out reasons why wallace should be gone? why are so many of you ignoring the lack of production from sanders when he starts? wallace being gone was never the most worrisome part. the most worrisome part was what his replacement would or wouldnt be able to do

There are 11 million reasons why Wallace will be gone; I don't even think it comes down to whether we want to keep him or not. We just won't be able to. What his replacement will do, we're about to find out soon ...

[Craic]

We may have seen the last of Polamalu and Harrison in a Steeler's uniform this season.

My opinion is spend the money with the receivers. Might as well have cohesion with your QB and receivers whom Ben is familiar with. You've got to cut the guys who are injury prone, and older/past their prime. Those are Harrison and Polamalu. They can also do the "extend the contract by spreading it out further and paying more money for longer" thing with Ben to free up space.


As much as I want to argue with you about Harrison and Polamalu, I unfortunately think that you may be right. Honestly, I'm not as worried about losing Polamalu with with way Allen is playing. That's not because Allen is as good as Troy, but because as a whole, our defensive unit is able to operate in a scheme with Allen that produces great results over the last three weeks. Harrison is the one I'm worried about because we don't have a linebacker so far that has stepped up to replace that position in such a way that there's no drop off in the over production of the defense. I know Worlids might be that guy, or Spence might be that guy, but we have yet to see it.

I do however, agree with you concerning depth. If we keep Starks for next year (FA), we have five guys (Starks, Colon, Pouncey, DeCastro [yep, I'm putting him here over Foster], and Adams) on the line and three great backups at their respective positions (Legurskey, Foster, and Gilbert). The only question on our line then, would be if Gilbert was good enough to play at LT in Starks went down (because Adams sure isn't).

RB, QB, WR all have tremendous depth. Heck, from number 1-4 of our WR's, I think they all could start someplace in the NFL - same with numbers 1-3 of our RB's (provided there's a team looking for a slower, bruising back like Redman).

On defense, the D line I agree with you - we don't need to draft there again for a while unless someone falls to us that is lights out for a 3-4. I have hopes for either Cortex Allen or Curtis Brown, both of whom have shown flashes at times of being able to play the position. The real concern at this point if we don't keep Troy P., has to be safety. Without Troy, we only have two safeties that I'm comfortable with as starters or extended backups. In know we have Robert Golden, but who knows what he can do. Linebackers are okay, besides what I said above. Spence looked like he might have some good seasons ahead of him, though it's hard to judge a guy from one camp. Sylvester is up and down, but he can fill in well.

All of that said, for the first time in I don't know how long, I really don't see us going into this year's draft with a "need" as much as going into it with "wants." Safety comes closest, especially if we lose Troy P.

And after going through all of this, I agree with you that we just may lose the both of them at the end of the year.

[Pristas]

And after going through all of this, I agree with you that we just may lose the both of them at the end of the year.

scary, right?

It's hard to even imagine this team without Troy and James. It's like taking away the personality of our defense. We need to draft a new super stud. I don't care who it is, but they need to be JJ Watts level of play. I really want someone who can do two things. 1. Make splash plays, 2. Hit hard.

[Craic]

scary, right?

It's hard to even imagine this team without Troy and James. It's like taking away the personality of our defense. We need to draft a new super stud. I don't care who it is, but they need to be JJ Watts level of play. I really want someone who can do two things. 1. Make splash plays, 2. Hit hard.

I'm not too sure I'd agree with that, however. I mean, if Worilds is able to play at the same level James is at now (not saying he can at the moment, just what if), then there is absolutely no loss to the team to lose both of those players, from how the defense is playing over the last three games. From that perspective, we can bundle a bunch of draft picks and get exactly who we want, but we don't have to worry about "getting" anyone in particular.

Moreover, I think the worst thing we can do is a get a "superstud." If Harrison and Polamalu's injuries have shown us anything, it's that a defense dependent on the play of one or two of its parts in a defense in series trouble, and always one play away from losing the entire season.

[Psycho Ward 86]

i agree that the release of troy and harrison is imminent. i dont quite agree that those voids will be filled. With the cap space they open up, (if they do), im hoping itll help us lock up most of these younger stars that are going to be UFA's next season, including Wallace. I think were going to have to compensate for the losses on defense with our rising offense, and i think losing wallace is a bad start, which is why i want him back so bad, even if itll be costly to the cap

[zulater]

i agree that the release of troy and harrison is imminent. i dont quite agree that those voids will be filled. With the cap space they open up, (if they do), im hoping itll help us lock up most of these younger stars that are going to be UFA's next season, including Wallace. I think were going to have to compensate for the losses on defense with our rising offense, and i think losing wallace is a bad start, which is why i want him back so bad, even if itll be costly to the cap

It's going to be an interesting offseason. And honestly none of us here know where things will end up.

So that's why we have to enjoy what we have while we have it!

If this team can get a little lucky with it's health, and performs up to capabilities this can be a heckava good season. Wallace, Harrison, and hopefully soon Troy Polamalu will all be part of another Steelers Super Bowl run!

And then after that we can start worrying about this divisive B.S.

[Pristas]

Moreover, I think the worst thing we can do is a get a "superstud." If Harrison and Polamalu's injuries have shown us anything, it's that a defense dependent on the play of one or two of its parts in a defense in series trouble, and always one play away from losing the entire season.

I disagree. If anything, the lack of their "gifts" on the field has made us a lackluster defense. Yeah, we have the best statistical defense in the league, but I'd gladly trade you Harrison, Keisel and Polamalu straight up for JJ Watt. LeBeau right now doesn't have the "big play" guy. Think about what Troy has done for us in the clutch. It's plays like the strip sack on Flacco in the AFC championship game that don't happen unless you have one of the superstuds of the league.

That said, LeBeau's system is a great system, and when it is clicking, it's awesome! Case in point, the past three games. Nobody did anything that spectacular, yet they all did their part. The sum of which yields a first place defense. It also helps when Eli falls into a slump.

And where is the media knob slobbering over Eli now? When was Big Ben last in a slump? Has he ever been in a slump? I'm sick of Ben not getting his due with the national media. He is as good, if not better than any QB in this league, sans maybe Aaron Rodgers.

Oh and GO STEELERS! I'll check this later. Going to watch the pregame now. Later.

[Steeldude]

Mike Wallace lets another TD pass go through his hands. He also failed to at least dive for another pass. Shouldn't a WR in a contract year be giving effort? Then he gets lucky with pass in the corner of the endzone.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Mike Wallace lets another TD pass go through his hands. He also failed to at least dive for another pass. Shouldn't a WR in a contract year be giving effort? Then he gets lucky with pass in the corner of the endzone.

those were the same 2 passes, and a circus catch if he made it even if it was clean weather. similiar in difficulty and positioning to the catch julio jones made this year against the colts i believe.

didnt like what we saw from any of our offensive weapons tonight really except for heath. hard to evaluate with ben and byron playing subpar, albeit in the rain

[steeldawg]

Mike Wallace lets another TD pass go through his hands. He also failed to at least dive for another pass. Shouldn't a WR in a contract year be giving effort? Then he gets lucky with pass in the corner of the endzone.

That would of have been a pretty tough catch in those weather conditions and i cant find a replay so im not sure how close it was. The catch he made in the endzone he did dive and made a great catch. You really think because he doesnt bring in a 50 yd bomb in the rain that hits his fingertips, hes not giving effort? Wallace was drawing bracket coverage all night long and manny sanders could not get open so been was hitting heath, until ben unfortunately ben went down and well leftwhich sucks.

[GBMelBlount]

Mike Wallace's TD catch was nothing short of amazing.

[Austin87]

Mike Wallace's TD catch was nothing short of amazing.

Have to agree here, arguably the best catch of the season so far by any Steelers player.

[Carolina Steelers]

Mike Wallace's TD catch was nothing short of amazing.

I also agree @ first i said Wallace has no chance Ben lead him to far, but boy was I wrong great catch

[Steeldude]

That would of have been a pretty tough catch in those weather conditions and i cant find a replay so im not sure how close it was. The catch he made in the endzone he did dive and made a great catch. You really think because he doesnt bring in a 50 yd bomb in the rain that hits his fingertips, hes not giving effort? Wallace was drawing bracket coverage all night long and manny sanders could not get open so been was hitting heath, until ben unfortunately ben went down and well leftwhich sucks.

The ball hit both of his hands. A million dollar, franchise WR makes that catch. The other long pass he didn't even dive for. IMO, he was lucky(not all luck) with that TD catch. If he used proper fundamentals(attack the ball at it's highest point) he wouldn't have needed to throw only one hand out.

[86WARD]

The ball hit both of his hands. A million dollar, franchise WR makes that catch. The other long pass he didn't even dive for. IMO, he was lucky(not all luck) with that TD catch. If he used proper fundamentals(attack the ball at it's highest point) he wouldn't have needed to throw only one hand out.

Lol...

[vader29]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1854ur2px0e2ugif/original.gif

[Psycho Ward 86]

The ball hit both of his hands. A million dollar, franchise WR makes that catch. The other long pass he didn't even dive for. IMO, he was lucky(not all luck) with that TD catch. If he used proper fundamentals(attack the ball at it's highest point) he wouldn't have needed to throw only one hand out.

i dont remember what game it is but denarius moore had arguably the best catch of the year last season on a snag where he was clearly overthrown and extended for the ball but caught the ball by the backend. thats the kind of catch were talking about.

[Steeldude]

Lol...

So a franchise WR shouldn't make that catch?

[steeldawg]

The ball hit both of his hands. A million dollar, franchise WR makes that catch. The other long pass he didn't even dive for. IMO, he was lucky(not all luck) with that TD catch. If he used proper fundamentals(attack the ball at it's highest point) he wouldn't have needed to throw only one hand out.

You are just being ridiculous.

[Steeldude]

You are just being ridiculous.

So it's ridiculous to think a WR should catch a pass if hits his hands? No wonder why you are easily impressed with mediocrity : )

[Seven]

Mike Wallace lets another TD pass go through his hands. He also failed to at least dive for another pass. Shouldn't a WR in a contract year be giving effort? Then he gets lucky with pass in the corner of the endzone.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1854ur2px0e2ugif/original.gif

[GBMelBlount]

Not diminisihing Swann or Holmes Super Bowl catches but I put this right up there imho.

[Seven]

Not diminisihing Swann or Holmes Super Bowl catches but I put this right up there imho.

When he first came up with it I thought he had legitimately one-handed it which would have been awesome. (If I may toot my own horn a little I've caught a few passes in a single outstretched palm in my day and the reactions are always priceless - it can definitely be done) If he had snagged it clean with one hand while going to the ground it may have been the greatest catch I've ever seen. As is, it is still behind the Holmes catch for me. Marvin Harrison made a sick grab sometime around 05 or 06 in the endzone I'll never forget, too. But it is definitely up there. I didn't think there was any chance he'd get to the ball after it was lofted.

[Steeldude]

Not diminisihing Swann or Holmes Super Bowl catches but I put this right up there imho.

But it was pure luck. The ball just happened to fall between his knees.

[steeldawg]

But it was pure luck. The ball just happened to fall between his knees.


Getting to the ball bringing it in with one hand regaining control while rolling over with a defender on him and staying in bounds, thats a great play by a playmaker not some guy who got lucky.

[Psycho Ward 86]

But it was pure luck. The ball just happened to fall between his knees.

some luck, but that was a heads up play. he reeled a wet ball in and that wasnt a catch until he secured it, which he did by mere inches from the out of bounds line

[HollywoodSteel]

But it was pure luck. The ball just happened to fall between his knees.

Even you acknowledged that is wasn't pure luck. And you have to admit, there was no lack of effort on his part.

I'll certainly acknowledge that there was a great deal of fortune involved for it to end up the way it did. That ball could have easily slipped out of his legs, he could have rolled out of bounds before controlling it, etc. I'll also acknowledge that after the tremendous effort of grabbing it with one hand and halting it in, a more skilled receiver might have done a better job of getting his other hand on it, or pinning it to his body rather than relying on the fortune of it bouncing into his legs the way it did. But come on, lets cut the kid a little slack on that one. The ball was soaking wet and he was just interfered with (no flag though). If that had not turned out be a TD I wold have been really pissed by the none flag.

[Shoes]

Great plan and play by Wallace. One hand catch ....feeds the ball between his knees...then breaks his fall with his right arm....then feeds the ball back to his hands before going out of bounds. He worked on this while everyone was in training camp.

That's two games in a row....if he didn't make the catch and TD we lose. I'm happy he made a TD.....anyone here wish he didn't? Anyone???

[86WARD]

But it was pure luck. The ball just happened to fall between his knees.

It's called concentration...clearly by tour comments, you have never played any sort of organized football in your life.

[86WARD]

At what point is it physically possible to dive from this position?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/15/yzena8y8.jpg

Let me guess...he should've began his dive way before it got to this point?

[Steeldude]

It's called concentration...clearly by tour comments, you have never played any sort of organized football in your life.

So why is he not looking at the ball if he is concentrating on it? He stabbed at the ball with one hand and then forgot about it. Luckily, the ball became trapped between his legs.

Was he concentrating when he let the pass over the middle of field go by without so much as a dive?

You obviously know nothing about catching footballs. Wallace should have attacked the ball at its highest point with both hands. A franchise WR could have done that very easily. Once again, this is another case of Wallace's poor fundamentals causing problems. His body control/agility is another issue also

[Steeldude]

At what point is it physically possible to dive from this position?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/15/yzena8y8.jpg

Let me guess...he should've began his dive way before it got to this point?

On that play he should have been setting himself up to dive earlier instead of taking that long stride. Poor ball awareness. Or depending on the arc of the pass he could have put his hands up and faced his palms toward(thumbs inward) the pass.

More and more it appears Wallace's body control needs work. Do you think he would have a better chance diving to make that catch or is merely extending his arms giving him a better chance at reeling the pass in?

Have you even seen Wallace dive for a pass? I haven't yet. With the amount of times he has been targeted you would think he would have dove multiple times. Especially when you consider how many long, straight patterns he runs.

Oh well, let's give him $11,000,000+ for it...lol.

[Count Steeler]

I think the lack of diving is because he is aware of, and relies on his speed. Not to say that he shouldn't dive on certain plays, but he must feel his best chance to catch passes is to run them down.

I can't believe this thread has gone on for 7 pages. The Steelers will have a price in mind in order to keep Wallace. If he accepts it, great. If he decides to walk, great for him, because he will get Vincent Jackson money on the open market.

[86WARD]

So why is he not looking at the ball if he is concentrating on it? He stabbed at the ball with one hand and then forgot about it. Luckily, the ball became trapped between his legs.

Was he concentrating when he let the pass over the middle of field go by without so much as a dive?

You obviously know nothing about catching footballs. Wallace should have attacked the ball at its highest point with both hands. A franchise WR could have done that very easily. Once again, this is another case of Wallace's poor fundamentals causing problems. His body control/agility is another issue also

lol...no player is attacking that ball at it's highest point given where it was thrown, the speed at which the receiver is running and the coverage that was on him. Again, you've obviously never played the game and I'm pretty sure you've never tried to run full speed, stop, jump and catch a ball at the highest point. Clueless.

[Psycho Ward 86]

On that play he should have been setting himself up to dive earlier instead of taking that long stride. Poor ball awareness. Or depending on the arc of the pass he could have put his hands up and faced his palms toward(thumbs inward) the pass.

More and more it appears Wallace's body control needs work. Do you think he would have a better chance diving to make that catch or is merely extending his arms giving him a better chance at reeling the pass in?

Have you even seen Wallace dive for a pass? I haven't yet. With the amount of times he has been targeted you would think he would have dove multiple times. Especially when you consider how many long, straight patterns he runs.

Oh well, let's give him $11,000,000+ for it...lol.

lol depending on the arc of the pass? That fucker [the ball] had about as horizontal of a trajectory as anyone could have possibly had in shit weather and from that distance

[GBMelBlount]

I think the lack of diving is because he is aware of, and relies on his speed. Not to say that he shouldn't dive on certain plays, but he must feel his best chance to catch passes is to run them down.

I can't believe this thread has gone on for 7 pages. The Steelers will have a price in mind in order to keep Wallace. If he accepts it, great. If he decides to walk, great for him, because he will get Vincent Jackson money on the open market.

I was thinking these two exact same things with regard to why he may not dive and why this thread is so freakin long. lol.

[86WARD]

I think the lack of diving is because he is aware of, and relies on his speed. Not to say that he shouldn't dive on certain plays, but he must feel his best chance to catch passes is to run them down.

I can't believe this thread has gone on for 7 pages. The Steelers will have a price in mind in order to keep Wallace. If he accepts it, great. If he decides to walk, great for him, because he will get Vincent Jackson money on the open market.

Like a baseball player not diving into first base?

Agree...lol.

[Steeldude]

lol depending on the arc of the pass? That fucker [the ball] had about as horizontal of a trajectory as anyone could have possibly had in shit weather and from that distance

Poor effort for an NFL WR.

[Steeldude]

lol...no player is attacking that ball at it's highest point given where it was thrown, the speed at which the receiver is running and the coverage that was on him. Again, you've obviously never played the game and I'm pretty sure you've never tried to run full speed, stop, jump and catch a ball at the highest point. Clueless.

Any WR with at least average fundamentals would have attacked the TD pass higher in the air. The coverage given and the pass dictated two hands extended up, not a half-ass stab at the ball with one hand. He wasn't running full speed in the endzone. He should very easily caught the ball at its highest accessible point. This is a WR you claim to be a franchise WR and you expect so little...lol. I guess Troy Edwards was a franchise WR, in your opinion too. Right?


I'm pretty sure you've never tried to run full speed, stop, jump and catch a ball at the highest point

I have done it too many times to count. All NFL WRs should be able to do the same. There are 11,000,000 reasons why Wallace should be able to do it.

I am guessing you have never played WR. You act as if grabbing the ball at its highest point is something incredible. It's a very average skill as is diving. These are things all NFL WRs should be able to do in their sleep.

Every NFL WR should know the trajectory of the pass, where the defenders are located and where he is on the field.

[86WARD]

Any WR with at least average fundamentals would have attacked the TD pass higher in the air. The coverage given and the pass dictated two hands extended up, not a half-ass stab at the ball with one hand. He wasn't running full speed in the endzone. He should very easily caught the ball at its highest accessible point. This is a WR you claim to be a franchise WR and you expect so little...lol. I guess Troy Edwards was a franchise WR, in your opinion too. Right?



I have done it too many times to count. All NFL WRs should be able to do the same. There are 11,000,000 reasons why Wallace should be able to do it.

I am guessing you have never played WR. You act as if grabbing the ball at its highest point is something incredible. It's a very average skill as is diving. These are things all NFL WRs should be able to do in their sleep.

Every NFL WR should know the trajectory of the pass, where the defenders are located and where he is on the field.

Actually willing to bet I've done it more than you and probably better. When you are running on a sideline in the end zone on that position and where the ball is thrown compared to where the defenders are...virtually impossible to stop the route, shed the defenders, jump and catch the ball at its highest point. Show me some player in that situation where the ball is thrown make that play. Lol...

BTW, there's only 2.7 million reasons Wallace should make that play. No one is or has paid him $11M yet. Stop being all butt hurt cause he held out. It's pretty obvious that's where your hate comes from. At least the fans that dislike things about Wallace like, Zulater makes good arguments. Your drivel is just silly.

No worries though. If you're lucky, he'll be gone soon enough and Sanders and Brown will be the big 1, 2 punch in Pittsburgh!!

[Steeldude]

Actually willing to bet I've done it more than you and probably better. When you are running on a sideline in the end zone on that position and where the ball is thrown compared to where the defenders are...virtually impossible to stop the route, shed the defenders, jump and catch the ball at its highest point. Show me some player in that situation where the ball is thrown make that play. Lol...

BTW, there's only 2.7 million reasons Wallace should make that play. No one is or has paid him $11M yet. Stop being all butt hurt cause he held out. It's pretty obvious that's where your hate comes from. At least the fans that dislike things about Wallace like, Zulater makes good arguments. Your drivel is just silly.

No worries though. If you're lucky, he'll be gone soon enough and Sanders and Brown will be the big 1, 2 punch in Pittsburgh!!

I doubt you have done it at all since you seem to think it's impossible.


virtually impossible to stop the route, shed the defenders, jump and catch the ball at its highest point

This is a perfect example of why you have never done it. It's an easy feat to accomplish.

Do you see how you are focused on Wallace holding out. It was expected he would holdout. Why would I be hurt over something everyone knew would happen? I never said I wanted him gone. You see how you are so upset you can't understand what is written about your overrated WR?

I don't care what Zulater thinks. I am talking to you. Your argument is Wallace is fast. What other qualities does he bring?


there's only 2.7 million reasons Wallace should make that play

Then you agree, 2.7 million times over, that he should make that play. You are finally beginning to see the light.


Show me some player in that situation where the ball is thrown make that play

Pick any well-rounded NFL WR. You act as if it's impossible. Since you claim to have done it so many times then you must realize NFL WRs should be able to do it also. Right?

[GBMelBlount]

I understand your criticism Steeldude. It is your nature to look for weaknesses. I am OK with that.

However I am curious where do you rank Wallace? Top 15? Top 30?

Maybe some examples of players you compare him to to as far as value / performance. Let's put this in perspective.

I just think you can put any player under the microscope and find negatives vs. perfection.

[Steeldude]

I understand your criticism Steeldude. It is your nature to look for weaknesses. I am OK with that.

However I am curious where do you rank Wallace? Top 15? Top 30?

Maybe some examples of players you compare him to to as far as value / performance. Let's put this in perspective.

I just think you can put any player under the microscope and find negatives vs. perfection.

After the top 15 the WRs pretty much start looking the same.

I am referring to paying him what he is worth without killing the cap and/or cutting needed players. The Wallace supporters seem to overlook the cap and Wallace's many weaknesses simply because he runs fast. It reminds me of the Kordell fans. I am fine with Wallace being re-signed, but the cost can't outweigh the interests of the team. Fans either don't know or the forget that $82,000,000 is wrapped in 7 Steelers in 2013. Most of them will restructure, but how much restructuring? Who will be cut? Who will replace the players who are cut?

I'm not looking for perfection. It's not asking a lot for a WR to learn how to catch with his hands only and put forth more effort. He would be so much better if he would work on it. He should have learned it when he was 6 years old.

Swann
Ward
Fitzgerald
Moss
Largent
Sharpe
Rice
Joiner
Calvin Johnson
Warfield
Tim Brown
Cris Carter
Harrison....too many to name


Besides being fast, what does Wallace bring? No one seems to be able to answer. He doesn't have that good of hands. His routes are nothing special. His effort needs work. His awareness and fundamentals need work. He doesn't return kicks or punts. It seems to me he is a WR who can run fast, but not much else. Is that worth $10,000,000 or over? The Steelers were fine when they let Burress go. I was jumping up and down in sheer joy when he was sent on his way.

[86WARD]

I doubt you have done it at all since you seem to think it's impossible.



This is a perfect example of why you have never done it. It's an easy feat to accomplish.

Do you see how you are focused on Wallace holding out. It was expected he would holdout. Why would I be hurt over something everyone knew would happen? I never said I wanted him gone. You see how you are so upset you can't understand what is written about your overrated WR?

I don't care what Zulater thinks. I am talking to you. Your argument is Wallace is fast. What other qualities does he bring?



Then you agree, 2.7 million times over, that he should make that play. You are finally beginning to see the light.



Pick any well-rounded NFL WR. You act as if it's impossible. Since you claim to have done it so many times then you must realize NFL WRs should be able to do it also. Right?

Not where he was running combined with where that ball is thrown and where the defenders were. Sorry. Show me an example. You cant. Until then, keep the hate going and your arguments silly. Criticizing a TD catch...because it wasn't to "high school form." Lol...what next? Criticizing tackles because they aren't form tackles? LMAO.

[86WARD]

Besides being fast, what does Wallace bring? No one seems to be able to answer. He doesn't have that good of hands. His routes are nothing special. His effort needs work. His awareness and fundamentals need work. He doesn't return kicks or punts. It seems to me he is a WR who can run fast, but not much else. Is that worth $10,000,000 or over? The Steelers were fine when they let Burress go. I was jumping up and down in sheer joy when he was sent on his way.

You're right. All those balls that Brown Sanders and Miller catch underneath have nothing tondo with defenses concerned with Wallace's speed.

Again, because he can't return punts or kicks is the dumbest most irrelevant argument out there. Josh Cribbs returns punts. Calvin Johnson doesn't. Lol.

Blind hate. It's quite funny actually. You should start a Facebook movement.

[Steeldude]

Not where he was running combined with where that ball is thrown and where the defenders were. Sorry. Show me an example. You cant. Until then, keep the hate going and your arguments silly. Criticizing a TD catch...because it wasn't to "high school form." Lol...what next? Criticizing tackles because they aren't form tackles? LMAO.

It was perfect for him to jump and attack the pass. He would have received a PI call because the DB was not looking back


keep the hate going

The childishness begins. Let me play along. Because you are deeply in love with Wallace you feel he should be paid whatever he asks.

The difference between you and I is you want to win games on luck while I prefer to win games on skill.


Show me an example

You need to be shown examples of WRs in the endzone attacking a pass at it's highest point while being defended? How long have you been watching football? Seriously, if you cannot understand the footwork, body control or fundamentals involved with catching passes in the endzone then this conversation is far over your head.

I will criticize poor tackling too. I realize you praise it, but we are not all like you.


arguments silly

Yep, asking a WR to catch a ball with his hands is silly. You are right:huh:

You still haven't answered what Wallace brings besides having a good 40 time. I guess you are stumped.

[Steeldude]

All those balls that Brown Sanders and Miller catch underneath have nothing tondo with defenses concerned with Wallace's speed

This is a good example of your ignorance. Passes were caught underneath years before Wallace was drafted. Again, your argument for forking over money is Wallace's 40 time.


because he can't return punts or kicks is the dumbest most irrelevant argument out there

I did not say or imply his lack of punt/kick returns means he should not be re-signed. I was listing what he does and doesn't not offer or the salary he wants. So it is entirely relevant. The more a player brings the more he is worth. How do you not know that simple concept? You keep running away when asked to list what he brings besides a 40 time. Let's try again. What does Wallace bring besides his 40 time?

[86WARD]

It was perfect for him to jump and attack the pass. He would have received a PI call because the DB was not looking back



The childishness begins. Let me play along. Because you are deeply in love with Wallace you feel he should be paid whatever he asks.

The difference between you and I is you want to win games on luck while I prefer to win games on skill.



You need to be shown examples of WRs in the endzone attacking a pass at it's highest point while being defended? How long have you been watching football? Seriously, if you cannot understand the footwork, body control or fundamentals involved with catching passes in the endzone then this conversation is far over your head.

I will criticize poor tackling too. I realize you praise it, but we are not all like you.



Yep, asking a WR to catch a ball with his hands is silly. You are right:huh:

You still haven't answered what Wallace brings besides having a good 40 time. I guess you are stumped.

FAIL! HUGE fail! Maybe you aren't talking about the Chiefs game.

Actually, I've been critical of Wallace...a lot. Just not overly criticize because I'm still butt hurt over him holding out and over him "allegedly" requesting "Fitzgerald Money" like you are. But that's okay...to each his own. People can be upset about it. It's funny how his route running, poor skills, poor hands, poor concentration have all come to the forefront now and not any of his other seasons...lol. Putting up better numbers than Antonio Brown, yet getting paid $6M less and because his fundamentals are "poor," he gets criticized. How about the criticism of Antonio Brown...lets be real, he's not producing like his paycheck says he should...oh, but he comes back to the ball and catches it at its highest point...he has good "hands." Lol...

Maybe if you'd watch more than the ball, you'd see what Wallace brings to the game besides his speed. Go back and try to read my last post again...maybe you just didn't comprehend it the first time.

[86WARD]

This is a good example of your ignorance. Passes were caught underneath years before Wallace was drafted. Again, your argument for forking over money is Wallace's 40 time.



I did not say or imply his lack of punt/kick returns means he should not be re-signed. I was listing what he does and doesn't not offer or the salary he wants. So it is entirely relevant. The more a player brings the more he is worth. How do you not know that simple concept? You keep running away when asked to list what he brings besides a 40 time. Let's try again. What does Wallace bring besides his 40 time?

The punt return argument is not relevant it's just dumb.

By the way, show me where I said they should fork over $10M+...never said that. Sorry.

[86WARD]

Oh, and then besides only just his "speed," he brings receptions and TDs to the table...but his routes are terrible, so lets give all that back...and focus on his faults...can't wait to see what new criticism rises this week!!

[steeldawg]

FAIL! HUGE fail! Maybe you aren't talking about the Chiefs game.

Actually, I've been critical of Wallace...a lot. Just not overly criticize because I'm still butt hurt over him holding out and over him "allegedly" requesting "Fitzgerald Money" like you are. But that's okay...to each his own. People can be upset about it. It's funny how his route running, poor skills, poor hands, poor concentration have all come to the forefront now and not any of his other seasons...lol. Putting up better numbers than Antonio Brown, yet getting paid $6M less and because his fundamentals are "poor," he gets criticized. How about the criticism of Antonio Brown...lets be real, he's not producing like his paycheck says he should...oh, but he comes back to the ball and catches it at its highest point...he has good "hands." Lol...

Maybe if you'd watch more than the ball, you'd see what Wallace brings to the game besides his speed. Go back and try to read my last post again...maybe you just didn't comprehend it the first time.

This has been my whole point, how in the world are people ok with brown getting 8 million a year and then mad at wallace who put up better production for wanting more money. I mean if wallace is catching more balls than brown, more tds, about the same yards , about the same for first downs, are we supposed to not pay the guy more because we dont like his fundamentals? I dont care if he catches the ball with his teeth the fact is the guy is getting open and he finds the endzone, pay the man!

[steeldawg]

This is a good example of your ignorance. Passes were caught underneath years before Wallace was drafted. Again, your argument for forking over money is Wallace's 40 time.



I did not say or imply his lack of punt/kick returns means he should not be re-signed. I was listing what he does and doesn't not offer or the salary he wants. So it is entirely relevant. The more a player brings the more he is worth. How do you not know that simple concept? You keep running away when asked to list what he brings besides a 40 time. Let's try again. What does Wallace bring besides his 40 time?

Wrong the arguement for money is production, again i will point out wallaces production over his first three seasons, which were better than any other first 3 seasons by a WR in the nfl except jerry rice and randy moss. After that wallace has to play for 2.7 million dollars while brown gets 8 million for one season of 1200 yds and 2 tds, I would of held out too. Now after the holdout he plays for the 2.7 million and is on his way to having a career year, and wheres brown on the bench injured sitting on 1 td, but hey at least his funamentals are good because we all know that the reason guys are paid in this league is because of fundamentals and not production :sarcasm2:.

[Count Steeler]

I feel the temperature rising in here. Let's keep it civil.

[steeldawg]

I didnt think my post was heated?

[zulater]

The punt return argument is not relevant it's just dumb.

By the way, show me where I said they should fork over $10M+...never said that. Sorry.


Didn't Wallace already turn down that sort of money per year? Or therearounds.

[Count Steeler]

I didnt think my post was heated?

Then my comment probably wasn't directed to you.

[zulater]

At some point don't you just have to agree to disagree? The vast majority wants Wallace to stay. But not unless it's at the right number. Now it's obviously debatable what the right number is. Personally I think Wallace has 7 more games ( and hopefully a playoff run) to help define what that number is. So at this point I don't see the sense in a prolonged debate about what has yet to be written?

As far as his relative strenghts and weaknesses are concerned and the ongoing debate; those currently arguing are so entrenched that further debate seems pointless to me. :noidea:

But hey! Have your fun guys, I just think most of us kind of put this topic to bed already. :lol:

[steeldawg]

At some point don't you just have to agree to disagree? The vast majority wants Wallace to stay. But not unless it's at the right number. Now it's obviously debatable what the right number is. Personally I think Wallace has 7 more games ( and hopefully a playoff run) to help define what that number is.

But as far as his relative strenghts and weaknesses are concerned, those currently arguing are so entrenched that further debate seems pointless to me.

But have your fun guys, I just think most of us kind of put this topic to bed already. :lol:

I like this topic its fun to debate it, we are not hurting anybody.

[zulater]

I like this topic its fun to debate it, we are not hurting anybody.

http://karmeyhesed.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/dogchasingtail.jpg

No you're not. Didn't say you were. Keep right on doing it. :chuckle:

[steeldawg]

WINNING!!

[GBMelBlount]

I am not sure who the actual people are on Steelersuniverse who are saying that we should be paying Wallace 11 million.

I think it comes down to whether you think he is worth 5 million, 7 million or maybe 9 million for example.

Personally, while I like Wallace and feel he adds a whole new dimension to our vertical game, with the signing of Brown, Sanders developing well and Cotchery being solid, I just don't see him worth more than 6 or 7 mil per year to us in the form of a long term deal especially with the cap issues.

[steeldawg]

I am not sure who the actual people are on Steelersuniverse who are saying that we should be paying Wallace 11 million.

I think it comes down to whether you think he is worth 5 million, 7 million or maybe 9 million for example.

Personally, while I like Wallace and feel he adds a whole new dimension to our vertical game, with the signing of Brown, Sanders developing well and Cotchery being solid, I just don't see him worth more than 6 or 7 mil per year to us in the form of a long term deal especially with the cap issues.

I just dont see how people can see brown be worth 8 and wallace worth less it makes no sense.

[86WARD]

At some point don't you just have to agree to disagree? The vast majority wants Wallace to stay. But not unless it's at the right number. Now it's obviously debatable what the right number is. Personally I think Wallace has 7 more games ( and hopefully a playoff run) to help define what that number is. So at this point I don't see the sense in a prolonged debate about what has yet to be written?

As far as his relative strenghts and weaknesses are concerned and the ongoing debate; those currently arguing are so entrenched that further debate seems pointless to me. :noidea:

But hey! Have your fun guys, I just think most of us kind of put this topic to bed already. :lol:

LIKE.

[GBMelBlount]

I just dont see how people can see brown be worth 8 and wallace worth less it makes no sense.

There are three reasons Dawg.

1. Brown is locked up for 5 years and is legitimate #1 receiver
2. We have cap issues
3. If we pay Wallace 8 million we are arguably now paying our #1 and #2 receivers #1 money regardless of who is #1 or #2....and we probably could better use that money in other areas.

So while Wallace may be worth 8 mil or more to many of the teams out there it does not make as much economics sense to US to pay Wallace 8 million imo.

[steeldawg]

There are three reasons Dawg.

1. Brown is locked up for 5 years and is legitimate #1 receiver
2. We have cap issues
3. If we pay Wallace 8 million we are arguably now paying our #1 and #2 receivers #1 money regardless of who is #1 or #2....and we probably could better use that money in other areas.

So while Wallace may be worth 8 mil or more to many of the teams out there it does not make as much economics sense to US to pay Wallace 8 million imo.

1. Brown has not proven he can be a number 1
2. we can get under the cap
3. The problem we have created for ourselves is if brown cant be a number 1 you will have trouble getting anyone to play as a number 1 while theyre making less than the number 2. You cannot ask your #1 receiver on the depth chart and in production to take less money than the number 2.

[GBMelBlount]

1. Brown has not proven he can be a number 1


1. As the #2 receiver Brown has the same number of receptions and yards as wallace while playing 20%+ fewer games....which says even less about Wallace.
2. Don't pretend to be a capologist. You are not.
3. I trust the Steelers judgement on this.

[Seven]

1. Brown has not proven he can be a number 1
2. we can get under the cap
3. The problem we have created for ourselves is if brown cant be a number 1 you will have trouble getting anyone to play as a number 1 while theyre making less than the number 2. You cannot ask your #1 receiver on the depth chart and in production to take less money than the number 2.

Which is why we can't re-sign Wallace.

[steeldawg]

1. As the #2 receiver Brown has the same number of receptions and yards as wallace while playing 20%+ fewer games....which says even less about Wallace.
2. Don't pretend to be a capologist. You are not.
3. I trust the Steelers judgement on this.

1. that still does not mean brown can do what wallace does he just does not force defenses to keep safeties deep, and wallace still puts the points on the board.
2. not trying to pretend to be anything, so i will say again we can get under the cap.
3. I think if they try to go forward with brown sanders cotchery it will be a mistake and a mistake that will hinder us for at least 5 years until AB's contract is up.

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Which is why we can't re-sign Wallace.

No we can re sign him but we overpaid brown.

[bayz101]

1. that still does not mean brown can do what wallace does he just does not force defenses to keep safeties deep, and wallace still puts the points on the board.
2. not trying to pretend to be anything, so i will say again we can get under the cap.
3. I think if they try to go forward with brown sanders cotchery it will be a mistake and a mistake that will hinder us for at least 5 years until AB's contract is up.

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No we can re sign him but we overpaid brown.

That's a BULLSHIT statement. We didn't overpay Brown.

[zulater]

1. that still does not mean brown can do what wallace does he just does not force defenses to keep safeties deep, and wallace still puts the points on the board.
2. not trying to pretend to be anything, so i will say again we can get under the cap.
3. I think if they try to go forward with brown sanders cotchery it will be a mistake and a mistake that will hinder us for at least 5 years until AB's contract is up.

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No we can re sign him but we overpaid brown.

We've already established that's not a commonly held view among us.

[steeldawg]

That's a BULLSHIT statement. We didn't overpay Brown.

We overpaid brown

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We've already established that's very much your view and your view almost alone. .

ya just like we didnt overpay him is your view.

[zulater]

We overpaid brown

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ya just like we didnt overpay him is your view.

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/15388-Did-the-Steelers-overpay-Antonio-Brown

Mine and an overwhelming majority of other people who post here.
:coffee:

[steeldawg]

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/15388-Did-the-Steelers-overpay-Antonio-Brown

Mine and an overwhelming majority of other people who post here.
:coffee:

could really care less what the majority who posts here thinks.

[zulater]

could really care less what the majority who posts here thinks.

Yeah because yours is the only opinion that matters. Got ya.

[steeldawg]

Yeah because yours is the only opinion that matters. Got ya.

My opinion is only my opinion it hold no more weight than anybody elses opinion around here. This is a debate in an open forum, i simply state my case and stick by my guns, if you dont like that its ur own problem.

[zulater]

My opinion is only my opinion it hold no more weight than anybody elses opinion around here. This is a debate in an open forum, i simply state my case and stick by my guns, if you dont like that its ur own problem.

When you state your opinion as if it's indisputable fact I'll call you for it every time.

[steeldawg]

When you state your opinion as if it's indisputable fact I'll call you for it every time.

how did i state my opinion as indisputable fact