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polamalubeast
10-25-2012, 11:01 PM
Mike Wallace doesn’t think they’re scared anymore.

The Steelers’ big-play wide receiver sensed hesitation in defensive backs last season, the worry that in a second or two he would accelerate into the direct path of a precisely thrown Ben Roethlisberger deep pass.

Not now. It’s not as if the long ball has vanished from the offense; Wallace caught an 82-yard touchdown pass only two weeks ago. But Roethlisberger is going downfield only once or twice a game — not the five or six times he did when Bruce Arians ran the offense.

Maybe that’s why Wallace sees cornerbacks creeping closer to the line of scrimmage, emboldened by the knowledge that the Steelers aren’t looking long.

Wallace believes it’s time to bring back the fear factor.

“Last year, we went deep so much that guys would back up all the time,” he said Thursday. “This year, we’ve been going (short) so much, guys I think are kind of forgetting who we are when it comes to deep balls. They’re forgetting we’re the best in the world. We need to remind them.”

This might be the week to go deep.

“There are definitely going to be opportunities — a lot of them,” receiver Antonio Brown said. “We’ve got to take advantage of them, capitalize on them.”

The Washington Redskins (3-4) rank last in the NFL in pass defense, allowing 328.4 yards per game and 7.71 yards per attempt. No doubt offensive coordinator Todd Haley is paying attention.

“I think he’s going to give us a couple of shots,” Wallace said.


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2819944-85/game-wallace-redskins-think-yards-steelers-pass-deep-roethlisberger-sunday?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tribunereviewsteelers+%28Stee lers+Stories%29#ixzz2ANGwJfP4
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Craic
10-25-2012, 11:45 PM
I have a feeling we'll see close to a 300 yard game from Ben, but I think Haley gets 14 or 21 points on the board, and then gives our RB's some room to work.

Edman
10-26-2012, 12:12 AM
The passing game is fine. Mike Wallace needs to stop dropping passes.

Mach1
10-26-2012, 12:37 AM
Hey Mike their not scared cause you can't catch.

Steeldude
10-26-2012, 06:32 AM
Wallace says this because all he can really do is run fly/post patterns to catch passes. If he would wake up and realize if he learns how to catch with his hands it will open things up for him.

GBMelBlount
10-26-2012, 06:38 AM
Our top three receivers are all sprinters.

I am surprised we do not go long with Brown and Sanders more too.

Mix it up, keep the defense on their heels and set up shorter routes and the run.

NJarhead
10-26-2012, 07:15 AM
I'd personally prefer they "rejuvenate" our running game and our defense. But, I'll take wins either way.

NCSteeler
10-26-2012, 07:27 AM
Maybe, just maybe a few days before the game he shouldn't be in the press saying this is the week were gonna go deep. WTF shut up and go beat the skins.

ALLD
10-26-2012, 11:26 AM
The passing game is fine. Mike Wallace needs to stop dropping passes.

You don't need to double cover a butterfingers.

jb500ex
10-26-2012, 11:50 AM
Yes our 22 nd ranked scoring offense was so feared. When will these retards realize it's not how many yds you get but how many points you score

X-Terminator
10-26-2012, 11:52 AM
Yes our 22 nd ranked scoring offense was so feared. When will these retards realize it's not how many yds you get but how many points you score

Last time I checked, that still hasn't changed with the new OC that everyone wanted. So who are you going to blame now?

polamalubeast
10-26-2012, 12:09 PM
The steelers are 6th in points per drive in offense right now(24th in defense)

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats

Edman
10-26-2012, 12:10 PM
Last time I checked, that still hasn't changed with the new OC that everyone wanted. So who are you going to blame now?

Are you so sure about that?

Scoring through first six games in 2011: 7, 24, 23, 10, 38, 17 = 119 Points.

Scoring through first six games in 2012: 19, 27, 31, 16, 23, 24 = 140 Points.

The latter is with one of the league-worst rushing offenses, a beaten-up O-Line, a patchwork committee of RB's, and dropsies from our receivers. League Rankings is one thing. Efficiency compared to prior Steeler teams is another. This offense is better than last year's.

The Offense committed 12 turnovers in the first six games in 2011, with a 7-turnover debacle in Baltimore. That number was slashed in half in 2012 in the same amount of games.

How about sacks? Ben was decked 18 times in six games in 2011. In 2012, only 10 times with a ZERO-sack performance against the vaunted Eagles Defense, one of the most fearsome fronts in the NFL. So far Ben hasn't exactly been peeling himself off the turf or going into games with a one or more things tweaked or sore. We're already getting results from Haley when it comes to offensive efficiency.

polamalubeast
10-26-2012, 12:14 PM
Scoring through first six games in 2011: 7, 24, 23, 10, 38, 17 = 119 Points.

Scoring through first six games in 2012: 19, 27, 31, 16, 23, 24 = 140 Points.

Yep, nothing's changed.

And this is despite a horrible running game in 4 of the 6 games

Points per drive is the best stats to evaluate the efficacy in offense and in defense

Craic
10-26-2012, 02:08 PM
Are you so sure about that?

Scoring through first six games in 2011: 7, 24, 23, 10, 38, 17 = 119 Points.

Scoring through first six games in 2012: 19, 27, 31, 16, 23, 24 = 140 Points.

The latter is with one of the league-worst rushing offenses, a beaten-up O-Line, a patchwork committee of RB's, and dropsies from our receivers. League Rankings is one thing. Efficiency compared to prior Steeler teams is another. This offense is better than last year's.

The Offense committed 12 turnovers in the first six games in 2011, with a 7-turnover debacle in Baltimore. That number was slashed in half in 2012 in the same amount of games.

How about sacks? Ben was decked 18 times in six games in 2011. In 2012, only 10 times with a ZERO-sack performance against the vaunted Eagles Defense, one of the most fearsome fronts in the NFL. So far Ben hasn't exactly been peeling himself off the turf or going into games with a one or more things tweaked or sore. We're already getting results from Haley when it comes to offensive efficiency.

That comparison has no place in reality. Look at the defenses played.

Rank of defense played last year in (ranked by points allowed).

3, 7, 25, 2, 8, 11

This year

17, 21, 27, 10, 32, 25

Last year, 4 of 6 teams were in the top 10 in lowest points allowed. The fifth was in 11th place. Only one team was in the bottom ten, and that was 25 out of 32 (seven spots out).
This year, 4 of 6 teams are in the bottom 10 in lowest points allowed, the fifth is in 17th place. Only one team in in the top ten, and that's at the 10th spot (10 spots out).

So no, that's actually a horrible comparison, because you're comparing an offense going up against the best in the league, to an offense going up against the worst in the league.




And this is despite a horrible running game in 4 of the 6 games

Points per drive is the best stats to evaluate the efficacy in offense and in defense

No, it's one of the tools. However, you also have to consider who they were playing against. Again, a better points per drive number means nothing when it's against the worst teams in the NFL for allowing points (when comparing to the best teams in the NFL).

polamalubeast
10-26-2012, 02:24 PM
Yes, the Steelers have not played against very good defense right now, but they are 6th in points per drive, which is not bad!

And this is despite the fact that the Steelers have a bad running game

Also, we can not evaluate an offense or defense only on one stats(PPG) because of turnovers, the TD on ST and the number of drive that you have in a game

steel striker
10-26-2012, 02:43 PM
I don't care how we score as long as we win!

X-Terminator
10-26-2012, 03:39 PM
Are you so sure about that?

Scoring through first six games in 2011: 7, 24, 23, 10, 38, 17 = 119 Points.

Scoring through first six games in 2012: 19, 27, 31, 16, 23, 24 = 140 Points.

The latter is with one of the league-worst rushing offenses, a beaten-up O-Line, a patchwork committee of RB's, and dropsies from our receivers. League Rankings is one thing. Efficiency compared to prior Steeler teams is another. This offense is better than last year's.

The Offense committed 12 turnovers in the first six games in 2011, with a 7-turnover debacle in Baltimore. That number was slashed in half in 2012 in the same amount of games.

How about sacks? Ben was decked 18 times in six games in 2011. In 2012, only 10 times with a ZERO-sack performance against the vaunted Eagles Defense, one of the most fearsome fronts in the NFL. So far Ben hasn't exactly been peeling himself off the turf or going into games with a one or more things tweaked or sore. We're already getting results from Haley when it comes to offensive efficiency.

Preacher pretty much said everything I was going to say, so yeah, I'm pretty damn sure. Not only that, we still have fans complaining about the red zone offense (ranked 17th) despite the offense ranked 11th overall and 6th in passing. So the yards are there, but the points really aren't (ranked 16th @23.3 PPG). They still are not getting the maximum bang for their buck on offense even though they have played some mediocre-to-horrid defenses. Why is that? Because just like the previous 5 seasons, they cannot run the ball (ranked 26th - thanks Jon Dwyer for getting them out of the basement). That's right - they are actually WORSE running the ball so far under Haley than they ever did at any point in the past 5 seasons. Yes, Haley is keeping Ben upright, but there is still plenty of room for improvement on offense.

Edman
10-26-2012, 04:34 PM
Last year, 4 of 6 teams were in the top 10 in lowest points allowed. The fifth was in 11th place. Only one team was in the bottom ten, and that was 25 out of 32 (seven spots out).
This year, 4 of 6 teams are in the bottom 10 in lowest points allowed, the fifth is in 17th place. Only one team in in the top ten, and that's at the 10th spot (10 spots out).

So no, that's actually a horrible comparison, because you're comparing an offense going up against the best in the league, to an offense going up against the worst in the league.

It's a really fair comparison. Banking an offense's success based on whomever they played on their schedule doesn't make sense and is a lousy excuse for Offense, that even before 2011, was still resoundingly mediocre. They can't control who on their schedule decides to play good defense and who doesn't. You have to play who's in front of you, to the best of your ability.

An Offense is more likely to have success against lesser defenses? Wow! I didn't even know that! What a novel concept! An offense having success against bad Defenses is what it's supposed to do. You should expect the Offense to perform well against lesser Defenses. In fact the whole "They played bad Defenses" argument actually supports my argument. If they still had 2011's shoddy production and efficiency against these "Bad Defenses" then I'd be calling for Haley's head for sure.

And you still didn't discredit the fact that Sacks and Turnovers are much down from before, despite injuries and lots of shuffling on the O-Line. Ben's on pace for a career season and Heath Miller on his way to the Pro Bowl.

X-T, I never said the Offense was perfect. I said it was improved. Is there room for improvement? Sure, but it's improved.

steelreserve
10-26-2012, 05:14 PM
I actually think the offense is going in the right direction the way it is; if we were not so banged up, I have no doubt it'd be one of the best in the league. I'm all for throwing the deep ball, but not if it means 6 more sacks per game, and being in 3rd-and-22 all the time instead of all the 3rd-and-4's that we're actually converting this year. Did Wallace forget about that part?

Also, Mike - start catching the ball before asking for more deep throws. We get zero yards if you get wide open for a 40-yard bomb and drop the ball.

I'm surprised he's saying these things this early. Before the season, I predicted he'd start complaining about the scheme and about not getting the ball enough AFTER he started taking heat for not living up to the big $60M contract he signed somewhere else. Seems like the contract pressure's getting to him before the fact. We know you have one and a half feet out the door, Mike, but not time to be counting your chickens yet.

Count Steeler
10-26-2012, 05:20 PM
1st and 2nd string running backs out for most of the season, thus far.
1st WR held out and his game is not up to snuff just yet.
OLine cohesion is coming, but the continuing injury saga makes that very difficult.

Ben is having one of the best years of his career.
Steelers are leading the league on 3rd down conversions.

If we ever got healthy and had a consistent lineup in front of Ben, I'm sure we would be top 10.

With everything that has gone on and we are sitting at 3-3 and only 1 loss behind the Ravens, I'm ecstatic to see the rest of the season.

Keep the faith Steelers fans.

polamalubeast
10-26-2012, 05:29 PM
The stats can be misleading since the Steelers are the team with the least number of drives in the NFL with only 60 drives in 6 games

They are 6th in points per drive, so they made several good things, but of course there are things to improve

pepsyman1
10-26-2012, 09:56 PM
Preacher pretty much said everything I was going to say, so yeah, I'm pretty damn sure. Not only that, we still have fans complaining about the red zone offense (ranked 17th) despite the offense ranked 11th overall and 6th in passing. So the yards are there, but the points really aren't (ranked 16th @23.3 PPG). They still are not getting the maximum bang for their buck on offense even though they have played some mediocre-to-horrid defenses. Why is that? Because just like the previous 5 seasons, they cannot run the ball (ranked 26th - thanks Jon Dwyer for getting them out of the basement). That's right - they are actually WORSE running the ball so far under Haley than they ever did at any point in the past 5 seasons. Yes, Haley is keeping Ben upright, but there is still plenty of room for improvement on offense.

That 23.3 PPG is still better than anything this team has done since the 2007 season

X-Terminator
10-26-2012, 10:31 PM
That 23.3 PPG is still better than anything this team has done since the 2007 season

But it's still ranked in the bottom half of the league, which means they still aren't scoring to their talent level. Besides, you're wrong anyway:

2007 - 24.8
2008 - 22.7
2009 - 23.0
2010 - 23.9
2011 - 20.5
2012 - 23.3 so far

Source: http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/team-stat/scoring-offense-category

Craic
10-27-2012, 01:58 AM
Last year, 4 of 6 teams were in the top 10 in lowest points allowed. The fifth was in 11th place. Only one team was in the bottom ten, and that was 25 out of 32 (seven spots out).
This year, 4 of 6 teams are in the bottom 10 in lowest points allowed, the fifth is in 17th place. Only one team in in the top ten, and that's at the 10th spot (10 spots out).

So no, that's actually a horrible comparison, because you're comparing an offense going up against the best in the league, to an offense going up against the worst in the league.

It's a really fair comparison. Banking an offense's success based on whomever they played on their schedule doesn't make sense and is a lousy excuse for Offense, that even before 2011, was still resoundingly mediocre. They can't control who on their schedule decides to play good defense and who doesn't. You have to play who's in front of you, to the best of your ability.

An Offense is more likely to have success against lesser defenses? Wow! I didn't even know that! What a novel concept! An offense having success against bad Defenses is what it's supposed to do. You should expect the Offense to perform well against lesser Defenses. In fact the whole "They played bad Defenses" argument actually supports my argument. If they still had 2011's shoddy production and efficiency against these "Bad Defenses" then I'd be calling for Haley's head for sure.

And you still didn't discredit the fact that Sacks and Turnovers are much down from before, despite injuries and lots of shuffling on the O-Line. Ben's on pace for a career season and Heath Miller on his way to the Pro Bowl.



Let me make this simple:

Using a t-Test for statistical analysis . . .
1. There is a 99.1 percent chance that the variance between the defenses faced this year, vs. the defenses faced last year, is statistically significant (95% is the threshold in statistical analysis).
2. There is little statistical support to argue that the difference in scoring of this years offense and last years is significant (59%, missing the 95% threshold by 31%).

Conclusion: While the defenses being played last year are much better this year, there is no way to even show that the difference in scoring between last year and this year is significantly different according to statistical analysis. As a result:


Scoring through first six games in 2011: 7, 24, 23, 10, 38, 17 = 119 Points.

Scoring through first six games in 2012: 19, 27, 31, 16, 23, 24 = 140 Points.
Means nothing in this argument.

"They played bad defenses [this year]" is the nail in the coffin of your argument - because it forces your argument to overcome 2 major hurdles, the first being the lack of significant statistical difference in offensive scoring this year, the second is the extreme confidence a 99.1% statistical confidence instills in saying this years offense should have a much easier time scoring.

Hence, the final question - if this years offense faces defenses that are much easier to score on, why have they not made any significant changes in the actual scoring?

- and if you're going to argue they DID - then you need to deal with the statistical analysis here, because you're basing this entire section of your argument on the stats that you supplied.

______________________________________

As a general statement, I actually do think this years offense is getting better. I'm loving the TOP - which was pretty decent the last couple of years anyway - but is much better now. If our defense could have kept up with a few of those fourth quarter leads, we'd be sitting pretty and talking about a SB run right now.

NCSteeler
10-27-2012, 04:59 AM
What we do know is an offense in it's 9th month from hire to what you see, is at least as good as if not better than an offense that was in it's 5th year of development.

Seems we should give this a while and see where it goes

Count Steeler
10-27-2012, 05:06 AM
What we do know is an offense in it's 9th month from hire to what you see, is at least as good as if not better than an offense that was in it's 5th year of development.

Seems we should give this a while and see where it goes

The signs sure are encouraging. Especially if you consider that we do not have our best players out there yet.

We are on our 3rd string RB. Our 1st WR is at the equivalent of just finishing training camp. Our O Line, well, you know.

I would love to see this team when it is healthy and have played a couple of games together.

Edman
10-27-2012, 05:09 AM
Means nothing in this argument.

It actually means a lot. There is no need to make it simple because it's right there.

"They played bad defenses [this year]" is the nail in the coffin of your argument - because it forces your argument to overcome 2 major hurdles, the first being the lack of significant statistical difference in offensive scoring this year, the second is the extreme confidence a 99.1% statistical confidence instills in saying this years offense should have a much easier time scoring.

Okay, then. Suppose if this years Offense had the EXACT same scoring production or close to last year's team? This is why I believe the "bad defense" argument isn't very good. Also, check this out. In the 2011 Indy game, there was a defensive touchdown by Troy Polamalu. Since this is an argument about the Offense, Let's erase any score not by the Offense (Counting Extra points). So let's do it.

119-7=112 Points. Not really working out well for the 2011 Offense. The 2012 Offense was not aided by a single Defensive TD.

Now about this "bad defense", thing. In the same game, this was against a Colts team that had surrendered 27 points of offense the week prior against the Cleveland Browns, a woeful Offense and was ranked 30th in scoring in 2011. 16 Offensive points against one of the league's more porous defenses (26.9 points a game given up in 2011). Hey, Indy has a bad Defense! It should be easier to score more points, right? Or at least better than you know, 16.

As a general statement, I actually do think this years offense is getting better. I'm loving the TOP - which was pretty decent the last couple of years anyway - but is much better now. If our defense could have kept up with a few of those fourth quarter leads, we'd be sitting pretty and talking about a SB run right now.

Yes. This Offense has gotten better, but still has a lot of work to do. I can't say flat out this Offense is better than last years, since the season isn't over yet, but it's on a better pace than 2011. To me, that signifies improvement.

86WARD
10-27-2012, 06:13 AM
I prefer they keep it this way and unleash "hell" towards the end of the season around playoff time!!

Craic
10-27-2012, 06:12 PM
Means nothing in this argument.

It actually means a lot. There is no need to make it simple because it's right there.

"They played bad defenses [this year]" is the nail in the coffin of your argument - because it forces your argument to overcome 2 major hurdles, the first being the lack of significant statistical difference in offensive scoring this year, the second is the extreme confidence a 99.1% statistical confidence instills in saying this years offense should have a much easier time scoring.

Okay, then. Suppose if this years Offense had the EXACT same scoring production or close to last year's team? This is why I believe the "bad defense" argument isn't very good.

If this year's offense had the exact same scoring production as last years, this years offense would be worse than last years because last year, they played on average, a lot better defenses. It's really that simple.


Also, check this out. In the 2011 Indy game, there was a defensive touchdown by Troy Polamalu. Since this is an argument about the Offense, Let's erase any score not by the Offense (Counting Extra points). So let's do it.
119-7=112 Points. Not really working out well for the 2011 Offense. The 2012 Offense was not aided by a single Defensive TD.

I was just using your numbers for the previous year, so that's why I included that. However, let's plug in the new score into a t-test and see if it does change whether the scoring difference was statistically significant. The confidence level of significance when remove this seven points only becomes 67% - still a far, far cry from the 95% confidence level statistics present a the threshold for a true "statistically significant change." So, in effect, that 1 touchdown means very little in the overall picture.



Now about this "bad defense", thing. In the same game, this was against a Colts team that had surrendered 27 points of offense the week prior against the Cleveland Browns, a woeful Offense and was ranked 30th in scoring in 2011. 16 Offensive points against one of the league's more porous defenses (26.9 points a game given up in 2011). Hey, Indy has a bad Defense! It should be easier to score more points, right? Or at least better than you know, 16.

And that's the great thing about doing t-testing. You avoid anecdotal information that has nothing to do with the overall strength of a team over a stretch of time. Maybe Ben had a cold that day. Maybe the ball was slippery. Maybe blah blah blah. It is the precise reason why decisions are not made based on one game. Looking at the six game whole, last years offense played a group of defenses that were much better than this year's defenses, and they didn't score anymore points than can be accounted for by normal variance. By that I mean, there is nothing to point at in the statistics of points scored to show that this years team is better than last years. That's the math behind the statistics. Again, you're not arguing with me here, you're arguing with statistical facts concerning a six game window of points scored.



As a general statement, I actually do think this years offense is getting better. I'm loving the TOP - which was pretty decent the last couple of years anyway - but is much better now. If our defense could have kept up with a few of those fourth quarter leads, we'd be sitting pretty and talking about a SB run right now.

Yes. This Offense has gotten better, but still has a lot of work to do. I can't say flat out this Offense is better than last years, since the season isn't over yet, but it's on a better pace than 2011. To me, that signifies improvement.

There's some places I see improvement, some places I don't (not counting last weeks game). I think Ben is responding better to Haley, and I have said before that I do think that relationship between him and Arians was at the point where it was hurting him. Haley seems to have been able to get him to take the next step (final step?) The run game has gone backwards, and that's not due to injury on the line anymore than it has been for the last few years (injuries have happened every year. Last year, no one on the line played the entire year (Heath Miller did - but since he's a TE. . . ). We had seven different starters and the most consistent of those was Ramon Foster! Pouncey started 14 games, and a rookie, Gilbert, started 13 games. Now, hopefully, we've seen a turnaround. I'll also grant you that we didn't have Mendenhall for all but one game. However, I think Dwyer proved the issue wasn't the RB per se. I think our WR core is better this year all around, mostly because of the stability. However, with the struggles our deep threat is having catching the ball, there's also some vulnerability there that we didn't have last year.

All in all, I think we're on the right path, but there's still a long way to go.

__________________________________


What we do know is an offense in it's 9th month from hire to what you see, is at least as good as if not better than an offense that was in it's 5th year of development.

Seems we should give this a while and see where it goes

I don't think anyone in this thread is saying not to give it time.