My Biggest Fear may be coming true TOMLIN related....

[60_MINUTES]

Ive been saying for a few years now that Im not so sure MT is nothing more then a face the Rooneys hired.. He did nothing to put a stamp on this team at all...Other then maybe getting some more from players already here... So I will give him credit for that.. He talks well and maybe brought in a new way to get guys going.. He also seems to have an eye for picking WR... I will give him that..but...... make no mistake about it COWHERS team is getting old and now your seeing Tomlins team... you can twist it all you want but bottom line is the guys Tomlin brings in are different from the guys cowher brought in..I give our GM Colbert Credit he seems to draft the direction of his head coach as a GM should.. Cowher brought in ARRon smiths, Brent Keisels. Alan F. Hampton... Heath Miller... Hines Ward... Etc... good hard working bring your lunch box kind of guys to this team.. Tomlin likes the Speey go around you guys, wow you with talent guys , , like Wallace.. instead of Ward.

Like I said anyway you want to slice it you are looking at Tomlins Team starting to take over and Cowhers team leave... He has had more then enough time 6 years or so now to bring in his guys..Replacements and to me it doesnt look good... If you take BEN and Miller and Troy off this team ....Cowhers guys ...then you have a 5 win team at best... So my biggest fear is on the table... is Tomlin really anything more then George Seifort...Look at what happen to the 49ers and how many years they sucked after the core guys of Walsh left... the only thing that saves us now is BEN... we will be good enough to compete for as many years as BEN is here but once he is gone we will be left with TOMLIN and from the looks of things that is not a good thing at all... I hope he proves me wrong but until the guy wins with his guys to me he has done nothing that any other joe could have done taking over this team... THE O never changed and our D looked 100 percent the same as it did with Cowher shit Dick L ran it no different...

I will leave with this... Tomlin has his first real chance to coach them up so to speak.. We will see this year just what kind of coach he is... If he can turn this team around and finish around 10 and 6 I will come back and eat crow... I will never doubt him again..but if we are 9 and 7 or worse I will cont to bitch and cry as Im doing now... Tomlin lets see what you really got...its your boys out there... make some moves and coach this team up....

[X-Terminator]

Oh wonderful...another "Tomlin is another Barry Switzer or George Seifert" post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-3Iq3XQkAw



So much for this thread...

[polamalubeast]

Oh wonderful...another "Tomlin is another Barry Switzer or George Seifert" post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-3Iq3XQkAw



So much for this thread...


George Seifert was a very coach for the 49ers

[X-Terminator]

George Seifert was a very coach for the 49ers

Yeah, all he did was win 2 Super Bowls after Bill Walsh retired.

Regardless, this thread still deserves to be flushed down the toilet.

[Godfather]

Tomlin shouldn't have put his stamp on the team. He inherited a team one year removed from a Lombardi Trophy and two years removed from a 15 win season. A good coach leaves that alone. A bad coach tries to fix what isn't broken.

[X-Terminator]

Tomlin shouldn't have put his stamp on the team. He inherited a team one year removed from a Lombardi Trophy and two years removed from a 15 win season. A good coach leaves that alone. A bad coach tries to fix what isn't broken.

I'm still waiting for someone...anyone...with the OP's mentality to tell me exactly what the hell Tomlin was supposed to do? Get rid of Cowher's players so that he can prove himself as a head coach? It's just dumb. Besides, all Tomlin has done since taking over as head coach is draft Woodley, Timmons, Mendenhall, Brown, Wallace, Sanders, Hood, Heyward and DeCastro, and gave Harrison his shot being a starter. None of those guys are any good, apparently.

Fine. Let's get rid of him and bring in someone else, get rid of all of the current players (including Ben) and start from scratch. Maybe that will satisfy fans with this ridiculous notion that Tomlin sucks as a head coach.

[Steeldude]

It does appear that way.

This team's defensive unit has no identity and no leader.

You have to understand that Tomlin can't be at fault for anything. He's untouchable.

[X-Terminator]

It does appear that way.

This team's defensive unit has no identity and no leader.

You have to understand that Tomlin can't be at fault for anything. He's untouchable.

Don't be obtuse.

Nobody is saying that Tomlin can't be at fault for anything. But then again, I am not surprised that you agree that Tomlin sucks as a head coach.

[polamalubeast]

Tomlin is not perfect,but 2 super bowl apparence.....

[X-Terminator]

Tomlin is not perfect,but 2 super bowl apparence.....

...with Cowher's players. Therefore, they don't count.

If it was so easy to coach talented players, then why the fuck hasn't Norv Turner won anything? Or the Cowboys, another team that has been loaded with talent over the past several years?

[steelerdude15]

Just another knee jerk thread. I wish everyone would stop acting like the season is already over. We still have eleven more games to play. If all the fair weather fans would like to leave, go and please, don't come back.

[polamalubeast]

...with Cowher's players. Therefore, they don't count.

If it was so easy to coach talented players, then why the fuck hasn't Norv Turner won anything? Or the Cowboys, another team that has been loaded with talent over the past several years?

Many not remember the years of 1998,1999 and 2003

[polamalubeast]

Just another knee jerk thread. I wish everyone would stop acting like the season is already over. We still have eleven more games to play. If all the fair weather fans would like to leave, go and please, don't come back.

The season is not over when this is not over!!!!

many said that the giants season were done when they were 7-7 last year and that Coughlin would be fired

[X-Terminator]

Many not remember the years of 1998,1999 and 2003

And 2006 when Cowher mentally checked out. Many of the same players that Mike Tomlin coached to a playoff appearance and Super Bowl win in the next 2 seasons were on that team. But once again, that doesn't count, and Tomlin is nothing more than a figurehead.

[Steeldude]

Just another knee jerk thread. I wish everyone would stop acting like the season is already over. We still have eleven more games to play. If all the fair weather fans would like to leave, go and please, don't come back.

Why is it when a person posts an opinion that isn't liked by the self-proclaimed "real fans", it gets cut down and exaggerated? There are obvious problems with the team. This was one person's opinion on what could be the problem.

Remember when Lebeau was untouchable? Now, all of the sudden, it's ok to suggest that Lebeau needs to go.

[bayz101]

http://oi41.tinypic.com/992hde.jpg

[steelerdude15]

Why is it when a person posts an opinion that isn't liked by the self-proclaimed "real fans", it gets cut down and exaggerated? There are obvious problems with the team. This was one person's opinion on what could be the problem.

Remember when Lebeau was untouchable? Now, all of the sudden, it's ok to suggest that Lebeau needs to go.

Why am I the only who gets called out for said post when other members have made similar posts? You're right, there are obvious problems with this team, but I don't believe that Tomlin is the issue. Does it not annoy you that people are always going after Tomlin even though he doesn't seem to be the problem when majority of the problems seem to be player execution?

[Steeldude]

Many not remember the years of 1998,1999 and 2003

Wasn't 2003 the year the O-line was decimated by injuries? I believe that was the year Faneca played LT.

As for 1998 and 1999, look no further than the worst QB in the history of the NFL. You can't win if your QB has a 41(approx.) QB rating in the post-season.

[X-Terminator]

Why is it when a person posts an opinion that isn't liked by the self-proclaimed "real fans", it gets cut down and exaggerated? There are obvious problems with the team. This was one person's opinion on what could be the problem.

Remember when Lebeau was untouchable? Now, all of the sudden, it's ok to suggest that Lebeau needs to go.

It's a ridiculous notion that's shared by far, far too many fans. If you're OK with such a lazy opinion, that's fine. But as long as it keeps being brought up here, it's going to be heavily criticized and shot down. Personally, I've already given this thread more attention than it deserves, and that's my fault.

[steelerdude15]

Wasn't 2003 the year the O-line was decimated by injuries? I believe that was the year Faneca played LT.

As for 1998 and 1999, look no further than the worst QB in the history of the NFL. You can't win if your QB has a 41(approx.) QB rating in the post-season.

I wouldn't exactly say Kordell was the worst. I think its safe to say that he was a step up compared to Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russel.

[Steeldude]

Why am I the only who gets called out for said post when other members have made similar posts? You're right, there are obvious problems with this team, but I don't believe that Tomlin is the issue. Does it not annoy you that people are always going after Tomlin even though he doesn't seem to be the problem when majority of the problems seem to be player execution?

You aren't the only one being called out. It pertains to everyone. I understand that people dislike certain opinions, but it's not like his opinion was totally absurd.

I don't think Tomlin is the only problem, but he is the HC so he does deserve some of the blame. I think the talent level isn't quite there. Also, it does appear at times that as Cowher's players get old/retire the team declines. Or it could be just one of those years where everything the team is wrong. IMO, this team doesn't have an identity as teams in the past.

It doesn't bother me if anyone blames Tomlin or anyone else. It's their personal opinion. It's not like he said, "Tomlin sucks fire him" and that's it. At least he gave some personal thoughts on why Tomlin is the problem, in his opinion. I am a huge Steelers' fan, since the 70's. I know a lot my posts are taken as being negative etc..., but it's only because I always see a need for improvement. I was the same way with myself when I played sports.

I don't think the season is over, but I don't think they are SB bound at the moment either.

I'm sorry about my post. It was nothing personal against you : )

[steelerdude15]

You aren't the only one being called out. It pertains to everyone. I understand that people dislike certain opinions, but it's not like his opinion was totally absurd.

I don't think Tomlin is the only problem, but he is the HC so he does deserve some of the blame. I think the talent level isn't quite there. Also, it does appear at times that as Cowher's players get old/retire the team declines. Or it could be just one of those years where everything the team is wrong. IMO, this team doesn't have an identity as teams in the past.

It doesn't bother me if anyone blames Tomlin or anyone else. It's their personal opinion. It's not like he said, "Tomlin sucks fire him" and that's it. At least he gave some personal thoughts on why Tomlin is the problem, in his opinion. I am a huge Steelers' fan, since the 70's. I know a lot my posts are taken as being negative etc..., but it's only because I always see a need for improvement. I was the same way with myself when I played sports.

I don't think the season is over, but I don't think they are SB bound at the moment either.

I'm sorry about my post. It was nothing personal against you : )

Thank you for clarifying that wasn't directed towards me, I certainly appreciate it. I do agree that the current team doesn't have the same identity. Of course, my post wasn't personal as well. :hatsoff:

[Psycho Ward 86]

Put a stamp on his team? You mean like Reggie Mckenzie did for the Raiders just this season??? :lol:

[86WARD]

And 2006 when Cowher mentally checked out. Many of the same players that Mike Tomlin coached to a playoff appearance and Super Bowl win in the next 2 seasons were on that team. But once again, that doesn't count, and Tomlin is nothing more than a figurehead.


Bingo.

[60_MINUTES]

yes looks like I pissed a couple off and now Im some kind of Tomlin hater... so to clear things up Im not.. I think he has done good with the Talent what Im worried about is he may be in the john Gruden league... I think Gruden is a genius and will take a talented team and kick your ass with it...much like he did the Bucs and look what he did for Rich Gannon and the Raiders...however after the bucs team aged Gruden had shit behind it... most people dont talk about that but its true.. Im not taking away from anything Tomlin has done.. I wouldnt have expected him to do anything different taking over this team.. Shit he did what he should have got the most out of the players we had.. there was no reason to put any stamp on anything.. However what my post simply says is we are now getting to the point that we knew was coming. Tomlin is as we speak getting to put his stamp on it now.. and to me Im worried that its not good enough..

Im for sure not throwing any towel in... we are only a game off the wild card pace now.. if we can just hang around and get some guys healthy we can for sure make a run much like the G men did..

I think someone said it better then me a few post up... the word Im looking for is identiy... we dont have one...Tomlin doesnt have one and sometimes that can be bad.. anyway no matter what this is not a Fire Tomlin Thread matter of fact I actually think this could be a season where Tomlin has a great chance to throw it in peoples face... IF he coaches them up this year I think it would be a great coaching year.. If not I would for sure be worried.. He has a great chance to show he can keep a team together and get them to respond right now... someone else said it looked like he was losing the team a bit.... Im seeing the same things lets hope he proves me and anyone else wrong that is doubting him...we shall see

bottom line make no mistake about it Im not a tomlin hater Im just seeing a direction I dont like much... and even more important Im not seeing Steeler kind of players I have grown fond of seeing on the field... To me we have lost our toughness..our smash you in the face attitude that Steeler teams have carried for 40 years... and I think its in part to the players and type of players we are drafting..

To me Tomlin needs to have a sit down with the Rooneys and get on the same page.. I just read an article that said he wanted to bring in Vick and the Rooneys shut it down... Damn man... to even suggest Vick to a team like the Steelers tells me MT is a little off on what is expected around here... I Like many things about MT but to me we will find out just what we got this year along with a few more years down the road...

[Bluecoat96]

Tomlin doesn't need to have a "sit-down" with anyone. He's fine.

You could say the same thing about Gruden as far as inheriting a team is concerned. He inherited Dungy's players, won with them, and didn't do shit after 2002.

The article about Tomlin wanting to bring in Vick was bogus, and was a reach at best. It was a case of a reporter stringing a few thoughts together to sell a few articles. Anybody who had heard or read Tomlin's original comments about Vick in 2009 would know that.

I'm so sick of hearing the same old crap about the Steelers getting away from "tradition." They won a shit-ton of games with the tough-nosed style of football. The NFL has been so pussyified that the "old" Steelers way won't quite cut it anymore. Ben and his receivers are on the cusp of doing some special things, and I think the defense seems to be just a step or 2 behind.

[Bluecoat96]

Whoops...I forgot to add this.

http://images.benquick.net/d/7820-1/sky-is-falling.jpg

[60_MINUTES]

your still trying to put me in the sky is falling category...lol whatever dude shit Im the guy that still thinks we can win out if we are 0 and 6... I look at every math way of getting into the playoffs until we are done for sure..so if you want to label me that way go ahead... far as your comments about the vick article.. I read it and another one from a hampton news paper that interview Mike when he came home for an event that year.. he said what he said and didnt deny it.. to respond to the old school steeler thing again you must be putting words in my article much like a reporter does... I agree we need to adjust to win. and have adjusted to win... Throw to set up the run and have Ben and the Boys air it out... ground and pound is not what im suggesting.. if you take time to read a post instead of thinking of what you want to say next you may have picked up on that... I said we have lost our toughness... thowing the ball around and using the TE llike haley is doing is great.. but our D has no one scared thats for sure... we are not hitting anyone in then mouth on either side of the ball... We need steeler kind of guys that have that toughness... it started with Joe Green and has cont up until Tomlin... Noll and Cowher always had those kind of players..bring your lunch box and do it for the team.. Im not seeing that with the Tomlin guys... they may emerge but if your not worried about our future then your alone... I do think when our O line gets healthy it can carry this team... Our O can be very good with the guys we have...but our D needs some good ole smash mouth leaders to show up... Im not seeing that with the Tomlin draft picks...all I see is someone texting or playing on facebook...To me our tough guys...lunch box guys.... take one for the team guys were already on the team when Tomlin got here... we shall see how it all turns out...... Pouncey was a great Pick...so was Decastro... I think Heywood and Hood were good picks but neither of them are doing as much as we need them to right yet for number one picks...

Again put words in my mouth all you want but we will find out this year what kind of coach we got... he will either ralley the troops and finish strong 10 6 mabye even
9-7 with some hard fought games or we will bomb and look like shit..finger pointing etc...aka...lose the team... I dont see that happening.. I see us kicking the shit out of the bungles and getting on a small roll...but we shall see

[60_MINUTES]

Tomlin doesn't need to have a "sit-down" with anyone. He's fine.

You could say the same thing about Gruden as far as inheriting a team is concerned. He inherited Dungy's players, won with them, and didn't do shit after 2002.

The article about Tomlin wanting to bring in Vick was bogus, and was a reach at best. It was a case of a reporter stringing a few thoughts together to sell a few articles. Anybody who had heard or read Tomlin's original comments about Vick in 2009 would know that.

I'm so sick of hearing the same old crap about the Steelers getting away from "tradition." They won a shit-ton of games with the tough-nosed style of football. The NFL has been so pussyified that the "old" Steelers way won't quite cut it anymore. Ben and his receivers are on the cusp of doing some special things, and I think the defense seems to be just a step or 2 behind.


hello......please read things before you post a return messege to it... you just said the exact thing I did.... hello......it was one of my points as to what I was saying about Tomlin...LoL good lord...anyway thinks for saying the same thing I did to help prove my point....LOL

Matter of fact this is what I said in the above post that you just commented on...

I think he has done good with the Talent what Im worried about is he may be in the john Gruden league... I think Gruden is a genius and will take a talented team and kick your ass with it...much like he did the Bucs and look what he did for Rich Gannon and the Raiders...however after the bucs team aged Gruden had shit behind it... most people dont talk about that but its true

[bayz101]

The....sky......is.....falling.....

[tube517]

I read it and another one from a hampton news paper that interview Mike when he came home for an event that year.. he said what he said and didnt deny it..

Got a link for that article?

[60_MINUTES]

only link i got is the one on the Steelers Gridiron page right now... My uncle lives in Hampton and loves Vick...as well as Tomlin...I think he would Blow both of them if they would let him LOL.... but he sent it to me on a Scaned Email from the local newspaper rubbing it in to me that it was gonna happen.. I told him he was full of shit..that was a couple years ago...until I just read it last week on gridrion I had forgot about it... Steelergridiron.com is the site... I think they pulled it from the post gazzett not sure you can check it out if your instrested in it...either way Tomlin is just giving Mike a little love and trying to help out a guy he looks up to from his home area... all those guys try to take care of each other when they can... I understand that...but that doesnt change the fact the Rooneys are no where near the Raiders... We dont bring shit like that into camp... never have and never will... thats why I was shocked MT would even suggest it... it changed my mind a little about him...oh well... thats not the issue... lets just hope MT can show what he is really about... put all the unlesh Hell comments behind him and find a way to lead this team... Then put his stamp on it moving forward... we need him to do both or we gonna waste a Franchise QBs last half of playing days

[60_MINUTES]

The....sky......is.....falling.....


LOL...some of you are a good bunch of smartasses...I love it... thats why i love going to the games...nothing like a good group of Steeler fan smart asses and Im one of them... Like I said I dont worry about the sky falling until they say we have no chance not even a math chance... Shit as long as we got BEN we got a shot at a Superbowl the guy is prob gonna go down as one of the best of all time...maybe a 5 Time SB winner...but the fact remains MT I hope makes that happen..right now Im a bit worried we are not replacing guys very well that we lose... Im hoping before the end of this year I wont be saying that anymore...again... I do love the pouncey and Decastro picks...Also a Big Cortez Allen guy.. to me his picks and direction of team looks good but not seeing the production just yet from some

[Godfather]

I wouldn't exactly say Kordell was the worst. I think its safe to say that he was a step up compared to Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russel.

And don't forget Mark Malone and Bubby Brister.

[tube517]

And don't forget Mark Malone and Bubby Brister.

*cough* Kent F'n Graham

[GBMelBlount]

Tomlin was hungry when he started.

After two super bowl appearances and a super bowl win he seems relatively content imo.

[fansince'76]

And don't forget Mark Malone and Bubby Brister.

Mark Malone was far and away the WORST we had during the "great QB dry spell" between 1983-2004.

[60_MINUTES]

The Steelers (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT) can't afford to fall to 1-3. The Eagles (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/teams/philadelphiaeagles/profile?team=PHI) are coming off their best game of the season and continue to live a charmed life of close wins.
It's a game that could have looked a lot different had Steelers (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT) coach Mike Tomlin (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/player/miketomlin/2527518/profile) got his way in 2009, when Michael Vick (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/player/michaelvick/2504531/profile) was leaving prison after serving time on federal dogfighting charges. Tomlin wanted to sign Vick (http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/118358-ed-tomlin-wanted-to-sign-vick-with-steelers), Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette noted.
Two major factors stood in Tomlin's way. His bosses, the Rooneys, were "dead set" against it. That can't help. Tomlin was willing to look past that, but quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/player/benroethlisberger/2506109/profile)'s situation at the time ultimately prevented it. Roethlisberger was accused of raping a woman in a civil suit filed just before training camp.
"He's going through somewhat of a trying time with the civil allegation, a case against him," Tomlin said of Roethlisberger on NBC that year. "I didn't want to do anything that was less than supportive to Ben."
Vick and Roethlisberger have bounced back from their personal struggles. Roethlisberger easily is the superior quarterback, but Vick has more support from his defense and running game. A lot can change in three years.
Follow Gregg Rosenthal on Twitter @greggrosenthal (http://twitter.com/#!/greggrosenthal).


this blirp was from the NFL . Com site... like I said Tomlin and Vick are from the same hometown I expect they have many ties among different family members..so I understand hes trying to help someone out..but that changed what i thought about him a bit... you leave that shit at home...your job is to run the Steelers..the greatest Franchise in the history of sports.. you dont do that by taking care of your cousins best friends brother... it was a reatarded thing to even suggest to the media... and nothing more then a way to make himself look even better back home... Shit Mike is Bigger than Vick back home..believe it or not they turn out in bigger numbers to see him talk then they do when guys like Alan Iversion and Vick come back to the area..so I know he was trying to look good in front of all his boys but thats the problem I have with it... the guy needs to worry abou the Steelers and understand the Rooney a little better if you ask me...

[60_MINUTES]

i agree with the Malone Comment..he was pure shit

[86WARD]

Malone was horrid. Worst ever.

[SteelGhost]

Tomlin will be fine, the problem is the execution AND injuries. Maybe for the 2013 the defense will be drastically changed, Ham is no longer that great NT, Kiesel is playing good but aging, McClendon and Hood are not mature yet, Troy is very fragile right now, Clark is getting toasted more often, the LB corps are underperforming.

For the 2013 season we have to re-build the defense, not only re-load it :chuckle:

All of the above IMHO.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Tomlin was hungry when he started.

After two super bowl appearances and a super bowl win he seems relatively content imo.

what has he done to give any indication of that? Not every coach has lapses in emotion. Not every guy is a rah rah coach where his thoughts are palpable just by reading body language and tone like Rex Ryan. Heck, the closest we've come to detecting serious fury in Tomlin was in '09 and his infamous unleash hell speech :lol:. Even that was extremely mild. Theres Chuck Noll's and Tony Dungy's and Mike Mccarthy's out there, more generally mild mannered guys that have met a lot of success. not sure where your assumption is coming from

[GBMelBlount]

what has he done to give any indication of that? Not every coach has lapses in emotion. Not every guy is a rah rah coach where his thoughts are palpable just by reading body language and tone like Rex Ryan. Heck, the closest we've come to detecting serious fury in Tomlin was in '09 and his infamous unleash hell speech :lol:. Even that was extremely mild. Theres Chuck Noll's and Tony Dungy's and Mike Mccarthy's out there, more generally mild mannered guys that have met a lot of success. not sure where your assumption is coming from

As a former multiple sport competitive athlete who had many different coaches I can say that I personally responded best to coaches who were intense and highly motivational simply because that is the type of person I was..

Tomlin is not that way and I personally do not like that. It is my opinion.

I told my wife when I saw Tomlin joking around and smiling on the sideline right before the start of the last game that it did not give me a good feeling. I guess as a very intense and competitive person, if I were the coach of the steelers whose mission it was to win the super bowl....and they were sitting at 2-2 and seriously under performing with regard to my expectations, I would not be smiling.

If you feel the Noll & Dungy coaching style is better, good for you.

[suitanim]

Fire Tomlin!
Fire Haley!
Fire LeBeau!
Replace all the players!
Sell the team!
Jump off the Empire State Building!

[NCSteeler]

So long as there is some suggestion that the talent isn't there, shouldn't we be looking towards Colbert? I definitely put some of this on Tomlin, but to me it's his fault when you show up on thursday night and look disengaged, a defense that looks like it's having trouble getting lined up a team that looks like it would rather be home on the coach. NO Fire. That's on him

[suitanim]

I remember how many times fans wanted Cowher fired over his tenure. Silly, foolish fans....

[X-Terminator]

I remember how many times fans wanted Cowher fired over his tenure. Silly, foolish fans....

And yet, not surprising.

If the Steelers foolishly fired Tomlin because the fans don't like him, he'd be out of work for about 5 minutes with his record of success. Which is why I'm glad they don't listen to the fans when it comes to organizational decisions.

[43Hitman]

And yet, not surprising.

If the Steelers foolishly fired Tomlin because the fans don't like him, he'd be out of work for about 5 minutes with his record of success. Which is why I'm glad they don't listen to the fans when it comes to organizational decisions.

Owners in this league would be tripping over themselves to get Tomlin on board.

[fansince'76]

I remember how many times fans wanted Cowher fired over his tenure. Silly, foolish fans....

There was pretty much a nonstop din of "Fire Cowher!" from about 1997 until 2005...

[suitanim]

This kind of thought is called "picking the intellectually low-hanging fruit"

[Bluecoat96]

hello......please read things before you post a return messege to it... you just said the exact thing I did.... hello......it was one of my points as to what I was saying about Tomlin...LoL good lord...anyway thinks for saying the same thing I did to help prove my point....LOL

Matter of fact this is what I said in the above post that you just commented on...

I think he has done good with the Talent what Im worried about is he may be in the john Gruden league... I think Gruden is a genius and will take a talented team and kick your ass with it...much like he did the Bucs and look what he did for Rich Gannon and the Raiders...however after the bucs team aged Gruden had shit behind it... most people dont talk about that but its true


Whoops....with 2 kids under the age of 2 at home, I can only skim longer posts, and don't have quite the time to respond as much as I'd like.

I guess what I was trying to basically say was that I disagree vehemently with you concerning the Tomlin/Gruden comparison. I do believe that Tomlin has done much more over his tenure than Gruden did. the 2 Super Bowl appearances are proof TO ME.....maybe not to you....and that's ok.

I'll be interested to see what the offense is doing at the end of the year and in the next couple of years under mostly Tomlin-era players.

:drink:

[steelpride12]

This is what you get when you have spoiled Steeler fans who expect perfection and when they don't get it, let's make knee jerk pathetic reactions like "fire Tomlin", and blaming every possible coordinator and player...

[Steeldude]

This is what you get when you have spoiled Steeler fans who expect perfection and when they don't get it, let's make knee jerk pathetic reactions like "fire Tomlin", and blaming every possible coordinator and player...

Then there are the fans who think nothing is wrong and the Steelers go to the SB every year. I'll take knee-jerk reactions over denial.

[Steeldude]

I remember how many times fans wanted Cowher fired over his tenure. Silly, foolish fans....

I remember how many times Steelers' fans, like yourself, wanted to keep Kordell.

[SCSTILLER]

I don't have a problem with Tomlin, yet. I have a problem with the strenght and conditioning coach, whoever that is (don't feel like looking it up right now). It seems to me that we are constantly seeing players rolling on the ground, tweaking something, etc. Yes, our team is getting older but the younger guys coming in are also getting injured left and right. Hell, look at Pouncy and Gilbert, it seems like the last two years they were dropping left and right. I know, things happen in football, but watching 15 or so games on Thursday, Sunday, and Monday you don't see nearly the amount of injuries to one team as ours. I think the strenght and conditioning coach does have a role in that. If we could stay healthy and NOT play to the level of our competition, and that is usually down, then we would be a 4-1 team right now.

[Craic]

Here is why posts like these get very little respect.


Ive been saying for a few years now that Im not so sure MT is nothing more then a face the Rooneys hired.. He did nothing to put a stamp on this team at all...Other then maybe getting some more from players already here... So I will give him credit for that..

First, this is an hold argument that comes up EVERY time the Steelers are in a losing streak, or when they start struggling in the season. It's a trite meme that just rehashes the same stuff over and over. The supporting evidence is wrong as well. 1. Stamp? He took a three yards and a cloud of mediocrity team and made them a very dangerous offense that is NEVER out of the game. During Cowher's time here, that was almost never true. Granted, we began having that ability when Bend was drafted. However, it was under Tomlin that we put the pieces together to have an offense that is virtually never out of a football game.

It was also under Tomlin's time that Porter was released (and I do believe it was for his mouth) and Harrison was asked to step in as LB. That was a BRILLIANT call, by Tomlin. Whether it was Lebeau whispering in his ear or not, Tomlin is the final decision on who plays what position, as he is the Head coach.



He talks well and maybe brought in a new way to get guys going..
Has absolutely nothing to do with coaching. We went from a coach that was known to let the spit fly, and get result from his players, to Tomlin, who is a bit more reserved, but still pushes guys. I have no idea what this means.




He also seems to have an eye for picking WR... I will give him that.
Which is the main reason that our offense is a very powerful offense (except for the stupid O line injuries).



.but...... make no mistake about it COWHERS team is getting old and now your seeing Tomlins team... you can twist it all you want but bottom line is the guys Tomlin brings in are different from the guys cowher brought in..
And this has no argument to it. You don't explain what "different" means, your don't explain how it affects the team, you don't explain "why" different is good or bad. In short, you expect everyone to accept that different = bad. And that is wrong.

Speaking of which, let's just look at the O line.

1. Starks, Cowher's guy. A wasted size and talent - until last year when Tomlin cut him, and it made him get his head on his shoulders. Now he's in shape, and one of our better lineman.
2. Colon, Cowher's guy. Has always been a magnet for penalties and again this year. He does help our run game however, and yet, it was under Tomlin that he was moved to LG. I give you that Staley probably asked for the switch, but again, it was Tomlin, not Cowher, that approved it. How many times do you think that was brought up before?
3. Pouncey, Tomlin's guy, and one of the best centers out there.
4. Foster, Tomlin's guy, ok. That's about all I can say for him.
5. Gilbert, Tomlin's guy. I was hard on him last year, but the kid can play.

What did Cowher leave us as backup?

Essex
Kemo.

Nice.


Like I said anyway you want to slice it you are looking at Tomlins Team starting to take over and Cowhers team leave...

Nope, that already happened in 2009/10. By the time we were playing the SB in 10, half the team was Tomlin's guys. (Notice I put Harrison under Tomlin, because Porter was booted for his mouth and Harrison given the go ahead by Tomlin to start, only a couple years after being cut by the Steelers.

2010 year, Ben was QB (Cowher), Pouncey was center (Tomlin)Mendenhall was RB (Tomlin) Wallace WR (Tomlin) Ward WR (Cowher) Miller/Spaeth TE (Cowher/Tomlin) Scott and Adams OT (Tomlin/Tomlin) Kemo/Foster OG (Cowher/Tomlin) Hood/Keisel L/RDT (Tomlin/Cowher) Woodley and Harrison OLB (Tomlin/Tomlin (moved to start and release of Porter 2 years before)) Timmons and Farrior ILB (Tomlin/Cowher) McFadden/Taylor CB (Cowher/Cowher) S/FS TroyP. CLark (Cowher Cowher).

Tomlin: 11
Cowher: 11



He has had more then enough time 6 years or so now to bring in his guys..Replacements and to me it doesnt look good... If you take BEN and Miller and Troy off this team ....Cowhers guys ...then you have a 5 win team at best...
I'm sorry, that's horrible reasoning. Have you thought about the fact that we haven't drafted a QB to replace Ben? In other words, if Ben wasn't here, and we were drafting, that year there's a good chance we have lost a few more games. Let's take 2007. That year, we would have been able to draft Joe Flacco. We all hate him because he's a Raven, but the fact is, he is a good QB. Or maybe, we pick up someone else even better the year before. BTW, you do realize that Cowher missed out on Daunte Culpepper, in order to stay with Kordell Stewart and drafted that great WR Troy Edwards, right? You also recognize he drafted Burress over Urlacher and Peterson, right?


So my biggest fear is on the table... is Tomlin really anything more then George Seifort...Look at what happen to the 49ers and how many years they sucked after the core guys of Walsh left...
Very bad analogy for two reasons. 1, Siefert was the coach of the 49'ers for eight years. In those eight years, they won .766 percent of the games, and two SB's. The team didn't start to suck until after he left, and that's when they got into salary cap hell. Now, are you REALLY going to tell me, that six years after he started, that it STILL wasn't his team? You know, this actually might be a good analagy, because both coaches came in behind successful coaches, and continued to win. Tomlin has actually been more successful than Cowher in his first five years or so.


the only thing that saves us now is BEN... we will be good enough to compete for as many years as BEN is here but once he is gone we will be left with TOMLIN and from the looks of things that is not a good thing at all... I hope he proves me wrong but until the guy wins with his guys to me he has done nothing that any other joe could have done taking over this team...

Really? So Ben hikes the ball (Tomlin's guy), and then throws it to himself (Tomlin's receivers), or does all the running himself (Tomlin's guys, and with Mendy out there, the run game looks much better)? It's all Ben?


THE O never changed and our D looked 100 percent the same as it did with Cowher shit Dick L ran it no different... Wait, so now, the o and D didn't change, and it sucks - so wouldn't that make it Cowher's fault? Especially since it was Cowher who left us with an O line that was aging and nobody to step in and fill the spot, only one decent WR, and a defense that had to be upgraded at LB with our first draft, and no depth on the D line, not to mention our horrid CB's?


I will leave with this... Tomlin has his first real chance to coach them up so to speak.. We will see this year just what kind of coach he is... If he can turn this team around and finish around 10 and 6 I will come back and eat crow... I will never doubt him again..but if we are 9 and 7 or worse I will cont to bitch and cry as Im doing now... Tomlin lets see what you really got...its your boys out there... make some moves and coach this team up....

Nope, he had his first real chance to coach in 2007. In 2008 he did what Cowher was unable to do with about 70 percent of the same guys, he won an AFCCG at home. In 2010, he proved once again, that he could do what Cowher could not, and win an AFCCG at home.

As far as turning this team around this year, who knows. But if you'd look at my thread, you'll notice a three year pattern going all the way back to 2000. That spans both Cowhers AND Tomlin's time.

Let's take a look at 1 other thing:

Noll had a team that was 9-7 two years running, including an AFCCG appearance in 1989. Then, after a 7-9 season, he leaves and Cowher comes in, With essentially the same team, had a good run until 1997. The next two years he was sub 500, and only 9-7 the following year. SO, were the mid-90's all Noll's team? Did Cowher not start "coaching" until 1998?

OR - is it just the fact that things run in a cycle, regardless of who is the coach, and we need to hold on to our seats for this year, and then watch next year as we move back to being a dominating team, as is evidenced since 2000 (two good, one bad year).

AT LEAST you didn't outright say that he was hired because he was black. Thanks. I mean that (I'm not being sarcastic here).

[SteelGhost]

Wow Preach, you're on fire !! :applaudit:

[tube517]

So, in essence, Noll should be credited with the SB XXX loss and Cowher is undefeated in 2 Super Bowls, since they are his teams. All hail Emperor Cowher! :chuckle:

[X-Terminator]

After Preacher's post, I think we can safely let this thread sink down into the abyss. Well done.

Next time, 60 MINUTES (a reference to a guy drafted by Tomlin...oh, irony)...THINK. Don't knee-jerk.

[Butch]

Sorry it must be fuzzy statistics (ie fuzzy math) that lets Preach claim that James is a Tomlin guy when he was picked up under Cowher. Tomlin himself was not going to use James it was an injury to Clark Haggans that forced the hand therefor not a superior coaching decision. James was cut several times because he did it to himself by getting frustrated in practice and quitting when he didn't know what he was supposed to be doing.

All that said I loved James and was not happy when he got cut and then joined the rats. I was thrilled when he was cut by them and picked up by us again. I remember when he would come in for Joey and we wouldn't miss a beat. His coming out game was the 75th anniversary game against the rats and James was a one man wrecking crew that night. Sacks, forced fumbles, int and an overall pain in the ass to the rats and steve mcnair. I watch that game all the time and it never gets old.

[60_MINUTES]

After Preacher's post, I think we can safely let this thread sink down into the abyss. Well done.

Next time, 60 MINUTES (a reference to a guy drafted by Tomlin...oh, irony)...THINK. Don't knee-jerk.

I havent knee jerked reacted to anything..nor have I once said fire tomlin or fire this guy or that guy.. as some of you have wanted to suggest in this article.. I simply dont feel Like Tomlin is bringing in game changers and fear that as we see the complete transfer to His team that we may not keep our ablity to kick ass...you guys want to start bringing up all these examples thats fine...so far I keep hearing pouncey over and over... Im suppose to be impressed? lets really look at it..and remember I am the one that usually believes all the steelers Players are GODs... I was just telling everyone who would listen last year that we may make a smooth trasferr to greateness and not miss a beat... however on paper means shit... its all about the Tape and right now Im worried a bit... I still think we could turn it on and get hot but I can also see some worry... I hope we are right about these guys we been excited about but right now it seems they spend more time on face book then they do in a weighroom.. Its a different class of guys...

Anyway since you guys wanted to break it down..lets look at this team... Take BEN, Miller, Starks, Colon Off the O and what do you have? what other TE have we brought in the past 6 years that has got it done???? what other drafted T has got it done... In 6 years we have now brought in just Gilbert that worked out.. Yes we hit Pouncey..thank GOD for that...Foster is a back up that is playing ok... but do we really need to look at our run average the past 6 years... Cowhers guys were very solid.. Hartings, Alan F, Starks, Smith... very soild guys... Yes Mike has drafted well at WR.. very well.. on the D you can see for yourself were this D is at with the Cowher guys gone... we lost Smith, Farrier, Hamp is done, Troy on shelf, Ike getting aged..so results after having 6 years to keep us on top and we are now getting killed and run on for the first time in years.. I dont know how its gonna turn out Im just saying as much as I like Hood, and Heyward, Cortz Allen Woodely etc... we are not getting it done at this time.. It just seems as the Cowher guys are fading out we are getting a little worse each year...

Look man I think Tomlin deserves credit for superbowls and everything he has done... I also think COwher and company spoiled us... it was rare to see our steelers take many years to rebuild... Tomlin Im sure will get us going and may get us going before the end of the year..but I will tell you this it should be much eaiser to win with one of the Best QB n the Game.. all Tomlin has got to do is get a D going.. BEN can do the rest.. hes been doing it for years ... lets hope we get some play makers for replacements in the years to come

I will leave with this... Jon Gruden is a better example... Grunden will beat your ass to death with a good team that someone else cant win with... but never could build shit... Tomlin to me looked great... I loved our draft this year... i thought Cortz Allen, Timmons, Woodley Etc were great picks... all Im saying is its time for them to steal a tomlin quote... put it on tape... up until now they had the vets cowhers guys all around them to help cover their ass... those guys are gone so lets see just how good these picks are... Hood Heyward timmons, wood lets stuff somebodys ass and stopped getting killed up front... we shall see how it plays out...

the Afc is down right now... we are right in this thing Ravens are fucked now with injury...so lets get off our ass and go on a role..get some guys back and see what happens... Time to coach them up and get a little fire in them

[Craic]

I also think COwher and company spoiled us... it was rare to see our steelers take many years to rebuild...

That's not true, however.

It took 3 years for the Steelers to rebuild after the mid 90's. 7-9, 7-9, 9-7. Under Tomlin, we've never missed the playoffs twice in a row. So once again, the post shows reaction or reasoned argument. Alright, that's not necessarily fair. Let me restate it. The post shows Current frustration + Idealized past over the facts of the current vs. former head coaches. Tomlin has not had a losing season, and his Steelers have only missed the playoffs one time.

Let's look at the first five years of both coaches:

Reg. Season 53-27 Cowher 55-25 Tomlin.
Post Season 4-5 Cowher 5-3 Tomlin.
AFCCG wins 0/2 Cowher 2/2 Tomlin.

Are you seriously telling me, that Tomlin is just riding Cowher's coat tails, when he is actually out performing Cowher in the first five seasons? Especially when Cowher had his most dominate teams? (2004 was great, but it was 1 season. 2005 team wasn't dominate. They got on a hot streak).

THAT is what I mean by idealized past vs. actual past. On top of that, how many coaches go to a good team, and can't make them perform? Can't take them to the SB, let alone 2 SB?

And for everyone else who's reading this, let me head off about twenty posts right here. I'm not degrading Cowher, I'm not saying Tomlin is a better coach than Cowher. I am only comparing records and showing that Tomlin has a better record early in his career than Cowher did, while Cowher had a more dominating team (overall). Personally, I think we're blessed to have had both coaches.

[Craic]

Sorry it must be fuzzy statistics (ie fuzzy math) that lets Preach claim that James is a Tomlin guy when he was picked up under Cowher. Tomlin himself was not going to use James it was an injury to Clark Haggans that forced the hand therefor not a superior coaching decision. James was cut several times because he did it to himself by getting frustrated in practice and quitting when he didn't know what he was supposed to be doing.

All that said I loved James and was not happy when he got cut and then joined the rats. I was thrilled when he was cut by them and picked up by us again. I remember when he would come in for Joey and we wouldn't miss a beat. His coming out game was the 75th anniversary game against the rats and James was a one man wrecking crew that night. Sacks, forced fumbles, int and an overall pain in the ass to the rats and steve mcnair. I watch that game all the time and it never gets old.

I'm simply going to assume that you missed my rationale, or that I may have edited it out.

Basically put, Harrison was a bubble player that had been cut a number of times already. There was absolutely no reason to believe that he was going to stick around. Yet Tomlin kept him. Originally, I had him as a 50/50 Cowher/Tomlin, but dealing with .5 numbers in general arguments are a pain in the rear. But since you picked up on it, I have no problem going back to .5 - and giving both coaches credit for him being on the team now. Again, there was no reason to expect that we'd keep him around, until he started playing lights out for us game after game during Tomlin's time.

[HollywoodSteel]

The season is not over when this is not over!!!!

many said that the giants season were done when they were 7-7 last year and that Coughlin would be fired

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vtWB4owdE

[Steeldude]

AFCCG wins 0/2 Cowher 2/2 Tomlin.



If Cowher didn't win any AFCC games then how did he advance to the SB twice? Wasn't Cowher 2-4 in AFCC games?

[Craic]

If Cowher didn't win any AFCC games then how did he advance to the SB twice? Wasn't Cowher 2-4 in AFCC games?

In his first five years - good call. 1-1. I was equating the pain of the SB loss to the pain of the AFC loss before that.

[Steeldude]

In his first five years - good call. 1-1. I was equating the pain of the SB loss to the pain of the AFC loss before that.

Ah, first five years. I missed that part. My bad

[Butch]

I'm simply going to assume that you missed my rationale, or that I may have edited it out.

Basically put, Harrison was a bubble player that had been cut a number of times already. There was absolutely no reason to believe that he was going to stick around. Yet Tomlin kept him. Originally, I had him as a 50/50 Cowher/Tomlin, but dealing with .5 numbers in general arguments are a pain in the rear. But since you picked up on it, I have no problem going back to .5 - and giving both coaches credit for him being on the team now. Again, there was no reason to expect that we'd keep him around, until he started playing lights out for us game after game during Tomlin's time.

Yes I see what you are saying but it's a misrepresentation of the facts. Yes James was cut several times and for just cause he was a bit of a head case (yeah imagine that). He also came in a played from time to time. Remember the game against the Chargers when he intercepted a pass and then leaped over L.T.??? He was a solid backup for Joey when Mike got there so it's not really much of a reach to promote him to replace Joey. I would have been shocked if he hadn't. All this said I do see what you are trying to say, I just don't agree with the reasoning. I could give you credit if Cowher brought him in and never used him or if he couldn't motivate him, but he did use him and he was effective.In case anybody here has forgot I have posted the video of James in that chargers game I have mentioned.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42-7KJM2Vao

[Butch]

After Preacher's post, I think we can safely let this thread sink down into the abyss. Well done.

Next time, 60 MINUTES (a reference to a guy drafted by Tomlin...oh, irony)...THINK. Don't knee-jerk.

To his credit 60 MINUTES did say Tomlin was good at bringing in WR's in his initial post.

[Butch]

This is what you get when you have spoiled Steeler fans who expect perfection and when they don't get it, let's make knee jerk pathetic reactions like "fire Tomlin", and blaming every possible coordinator and player...

Where did he say "Fire Tomlin"??? He stated he was concerned that's all now you want to put words in his mouth...not cool. Seems there is knee jerking on both sides of the argument in this thread.

[Butch]

Fire Tomlin!
Fire Haley!
Fire LeBeau!
Replace all the players!
Sell the team!
Jump off the Empire State Building!

Typical over reaction.

[suitanim]

Typical over reaction.

I'm MOCKING the typical over reaction.

Really? You can't even recognize simple sarcasm 101?

Let me ask you a question. have you ever ADMITTED that you were wrong before? Because Preach is handing you both you and 60 minutes your asses, yet you seem to be "Tony Hipchesting" it here...

[Butch]

I'm MOCKING the typical over reaction.

Really? You can't even recognize simple sarcasm 101?

Let me ask you a question. have you ever ADMITTED that you were wrong before? Because Preach is handing you both you and 60 minutes your asses, yet you seem to be "Tony Hipchesting" it here...

Can't hand me my ass when he is misrepresenting the facts or did Mike bring in James??? Tell me again how James only succeeded under Mike and did nothing under Bill.

[suitanim]

Can't hand me my ass when he is misrepresenting the facts or did Mike bring in James??? Tell me again how James only succeeded under Mike and did nothing under Bill.

That wasn't what he said, and you KNOW it wasn't what he said.

Here. Read stats. Harrison was a marginal player under Cowher, and then he exploded under Tomlin.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4433/james-harrison

[Butch]

That wasn't what he said, and you KNOW it wasn't what he said.

Here. Read stats. Harrison was a marginal player under Cowher, and then he exploded under Tomlin.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4433/james-harrison

Here we go with the same tired Stats argument. Stats only tell part of the story and as Coach Noll once stated "Stats are for losers."

He was playing behind Joey who was a vocal leader of that team and therefor there was no reason to put James in there to replace him. Joey was let go because of cap reasons not performance issues. When James did come in there was no drop off so it was only logical that he was the one who got the 1st shot to replace Joey.

[Craic]

Here we go with the same tired Stats argument. Stats only tell part of the story and as Coach Noll once stated "Stats are for losers."

He was playing behind Joey who was a vocal leader of that team and therefor there was no reason to put James in there to replace him. Joey was let go because of cap reasons not performance issues. When James did come in there was no drop off so it was only logical that he was the one who got the 1st shot to replace Joey.

Fine, give Harrison 100% to Cowher, it still doesn't change my overall argument. The fact is, it was 70 percent Cowher's team that one the first SB under Tomlin - but Tomlin did with that team what Cowher could not. He won the AFCCG at home. He also had a team that could repeatedly come back from being behind to win games, Something Cowher's teams consistently could not do. The next SB team was 50% Tomlin's own draft picks, and about 80 percent at the skill positions on offense. With that team, we also won a AFCCG, and came from behind to make it to the SB. Again, two things that Cowher's teams couldn't do.

So the "Harrison" argument is a side argument that doesn't affect the overall discussion. I understand what you're saying about it as well, and you do have some good points. That's why I went back to 50/50.

[86WARD]

Lol...Bill Cowher, Mike Tomlin. They were and are Colbert's teams.

[Dino 6 Rings]

Chuck Noll rules

[BlastFurnace]

Fine, give Harrison 100% to Cowher, it still doesn't change my overall argument. The fact is, it was 70 percent Cowher's team that one the first SB under Tomlin - but Tomlin did with that team what Cowher could not. He won the AFCCG at home.

Tomlin also won with a more experienced and seasoned QB. Cowher won his with a 2nd year QB in a very hostile environment in Denver.


He also had a team that could repeatedly come back from being behind to win games, Something Cowher's teams consistently could not do. .

They were more consistent than Tomlin's teams are at it. Roethlisberger had 11 4th QTR comebacks from 2004 through 2006. Out of 54 games (including post season), that is 20%. I'd say that is pretty consistent for a young QB. Under Tomlin, Ben has had 17 4th QTR comebacks in 93 games (including post season), that is 18%.

Another thing to point out is that Cowher was 100-2-1 with a 10+point lead. I don't know what Tomlin's record is, but I can think of what has happened this year and 2009 and know that he has far surpassed Cowher.


The next SB team was 50% Tomlin's own draft picks, and about 80 percent at the skill positions on offense. With that team, we also won a AFCCG, and came from behind to make it to the SB. Again, two things that Cowher's teams couldn't do. .

In the 2008 and 2010 Championship games, the Steelers were never behind in either game.

[HollywoodSteel]

I'm not going to bash Tomlin here, but I just want to hear from the people with more knowledge: what aspects of coaching do you believe he is great at? I'm not trying to pose an argument, I just really want to know? I'm pretty sure I know what makes some other coaches great, but what is it about Tomlin? Is he a brilliant offensive strategist? A brilliant defensive strategist? A brilliant in-game adjuster? A great clock manager? Perhaps he is a great motivator. I know he had me believing when he threatened to unleash hell in December.

Again, all I have to really go in is his record, which is fairly impressive. It's also clear that he's a great communicator who exudes confidence. I'm certain that he gave the best interview of all time to get the job.

[tube517]

Cowher won his with a 2nd year QB in a very hostile environment in Denver.

:nono: Since you used a :tomlinism: in a statement about Cowher, that's one point for Chuck Noll :chuckle:

[BlastFurnace]

:nono: Since you used a :tomlinism: in a statement about Cowher, that's one point for Chuck Noll :chuckle:

LOL

There's a fine line....

[60_MINUTES]

Fine, give Harrison 100% to Cowher, it still doesn't change my overall argument. The fact is, it was 70 percent Cowher's team that one the first SB under Tomlin - but Tomlin did with that team what Cowher could not. He won the AFCCG at home. He also had a team that could repeatedly come back from being behind to win games, Something Cowher's teams consistently could not do. The next SB team was 50% Tomlin's own draft picks, and about 80 percent at the skill positions on offense. With that team, we also won a AFCCG, and came from behind to make it to the SB. Again, two things that Cowher's teams couldn't do.

So the "Harrison" argument is a side argument that doesn't affect the overall discussion. I understand what you're saying about it as well, and you do have some good points. That's why I went back to 50/50.


ok man good lord do we really need to go back n forth..shit I havent even brought up anything other than Im worried about how our team is looking now that the guys Cowher brought in are getting old and leaving the team... so now that Im according to someone on here gettting my ass kicked I guess I should respond to some of your things.. You are gonna really compare their first 5 years ? Really are you freaking kidding me? my GOD I still cant believe I even have comment on that... I hope this doesnt rub you the wrong way but how old are you? where you old enough to remember the mid to late 80s and then the early 90s? For shits sake Cowher came into a team that was the bottom of the barrel period.. Bengles had just come off a run with Boomer and a superbowl apperance 88 89 season.. the Browns had been kicking our ass for the most part and in a dog fight with the broncos during the late 80s... matter of fact since you like stats so much...

Bungles had won three divisions in a row 88 89 and 90 with the Oilers winning 91 the last Divison we won was 84 with a great 9-7 record... then the Mark Malone era started.. david woodley... Bubby time lol... Walter Abercrombie-finch... lol.. I loved us during those 7 years of sucking and yes we had a few good Ds but for the most part we sucked pure shit in the whole scheme of things... So for your stats Cowher took over a team with NO QB and NO fucking team what so ever... you can tell me all about who he had or didnt have when he took over but the bottom line is he took over one of the worst teams in the NFL and they had been that way for 7 straight years... Enter COWHER and you win 5 straight Titles and host a couple AFC Championship games Winning one and kicking the Cowboys ass only to watch your QB throw the game away... you cant be telling me thats on Cowher... shit his team held emmit the great to 49 yards... bottom line we out played the cowboys and one player cost him...either way the guy took us from pure shit to greatness... you know what thats not completley true we did come close the year before Cowher took over and the Oilers kicked our ass to keep us from the playoffs so we were coming around a bit... but main thing is we had no QB.... How many teams win year after year with NO great QB? How many teams have won the superbowl the last 10 years with no great QB? None.... there another Stat....NONE....

Oh but wait there is one man that kicked the shit out the NFL with no QB...yep Cowher... slice this thing however you want but if BIll would have had BEN in those 90s we may have won 5 Titles in a row or so... Shit if you dont agree with anyting else you have bound to agree that only Cowher and some of the greatest teams in history could have went 15 and 1 with kordel and had the pats not cheated the shit out of us we would have prob went to the damn superbowl with kordell... Cowher took guys like Mike Tomsack Kordell and Tommy maddox to the playoffs...LOL come on man your gonna compare Tomlin and Cowhers first 5 years... Damn Im falling down reading that shit...and please dont give me the 2006 07 season shit... thats the year BEN tried to kill himslef and never was close to being right that season upstairs.... call it however you want but Cowher left Mike with HOF QB coming into his prime along with a couple other HOF players like Troy and Hines...

I have not bashed Mike at all... I said in my orginal quote that Mike did a good job at getting this team going... My main point through all of this is pure and simple... I hope Mike is not a john Gruden... to me he has got the best out of Cowhers guys... maybe he did even better with Cowhers guys then cowher did as Mike was fresh and young and maybe Bill dealing with Kay and all was just not doing it... I agree Mike stepped in and got it done... but make no mistake about it he did it with Cowhers team and did a good job... now that Cowhers teams are aging and leaving it seems to me that we are falling off pretty bad... if you take the other guys away like Troy look at how bad we are looking on D.... I have been one of the guys that likes many players Cortez Allen... Timmons Woodely... and of course the WR... as a matter of fact I think Tomlin has a good eye for the speed guys... that makes since seeing he is a WR himself... however to me we are not bringing in the role players the meat and pot.. the men that remind me of steelers that show players the steeler way... the way we have always won games... Millers... Alan F.... Ward... Arron Smith..Keisels.. Hamptons... those kind of guys that teach a flahy mouth WR what it takes to win... the same thing Joe Green taught everyone from day one...

No matter what Im not throwing the towel in on Tomlin and company... I still believe we can turn it up a notch... I love our Offense... and the directions its going... lets see what happens... all Im saying is these picks I keep thinking are good..may not be... lets hope they are...

By the way in reference to your rebuild thing were it took us 3 years... we were 6 and 3 that first year... going into thanksgiving the famous coin flip game.... we had just come off 5 or 6 division titles and didnt know we had a problem yet... after we got fucked on the coin flip we lost our ass the rest of the season...first losing seaso we had... so after two more years of rebuilding we then go 15 and 1 the 3rd year...all this with Kordell stewart and Kent Gram mixed in a bit...

also yes Neil O... was a pretty good QB although he flat out sucked after he left our team so Im not so sure what he really was... he is far from a prime BEN thats for sure..

One last thing... since you love stats try looking up the amout of turnover and players lost in Cowhers first 8 years or so... that was before our new stadium and we lost every damn free agent we needed it seemed... Now days Tomlin doesnt have to worry about that... the Rooneys though many call cheap are not... we dont bring in big names etc... and dont pay guys like Alan F for that third Contract they are not worth but we do pay big money to keep our core guys that have football left.. we over pay if you ask me at times for some of these guys like we did kendall simmons and Chris k... but make no mistake about it Tomlin keeps his guys...

Like I said and will say again.. Tomlin did great at the time he came in... prob better then Cowher could do at that point in cowhers life...but make no mistake about it there is no way in hell you can compare what cowher did in his first 5 years with the team he was left and what Tomlin did with the team he was left with...shit I will say no more then BEN and Troy...LOL those two alone are two of the Best to every put on pads... But yes I agree Tomlin found a way to get it out of them again...

All and All its been a good move... but I dont care what you say we will see what a Tomlin team is like over the next few years... I will say again Im a bit worried Tomlin is a great talker and a great coach of a talented team..much like Gruden but Im in fear that he may not have the eye to build greatness...we will see

One final thought to whoever called it colberts team... you can see the difference in the types of guys we bring in with Tomlin and the type we had under Cowher... when we changed GMs Cowhers picks stayed the same... The headcoach is getting the type of players he wants...he may be colberts job to sign off on them but make no mistake about it colbert does a great job at bringing in what our Headcoaches want... I like he fact Tomlin likes these young junior 21 year old picks... I have been excited about many picks.. but at this point they are not all panning out... again we gonna find out....

After saying all this shit i expect at least 10-6 which I think makes playoffs and I wouldnt rule out a division Win ...as I expect Ravens to fold up a bit.... so I believe in us and Mike but Im also wondering if thats just the homer in me... maybe we arent as good as I hope.. and thats the point of my post...

[X-Terminator]

That's a lot of words to say that you don't believe in Tomlin and think he won't be able to continue the legacy. So why not just say that instead of writing a novel? You would still be wrong and your typical spoiled Steelers fan, but at least there'd be a lot less bandwidth taken up.

[HollywoodSteel]

That's a lot of words to say that you don't believe in Tomlin and think he won't be able to continue the legacy. So why not just say that instead of writing a novel? You would still be wrong and your typical spoiled Steelers fan, but at least there'd be a lot less bandwidth taken up.

X, I don't think that's a fair representation of what he's saying, but even if it is I appreciate when people explain why they think what thy do rather than just make a quick statement and run. Even if I flat out disagree with their conclusion. I personally don't think I actually know enough about Tomlin's pros and cons to add much to the debate, but I appreciate hearing all points of view when they are backed up with sound reasoning.

Also, I'm not sure how your two thoughts here go together. Is he a spoiled fan who should accept and expect less of Tomlin, or is he wrong about Tomlin's future excellence and he should actually expect more from the man? Or do you mean that his expectations of the team in general is unreasonable and therefore tainting his views about what Tomlin can or can't achieve?

[Dino 6 Rings]

Chuck Noll Rules

[X-Terminator]

X, I don't think that's a fair representation of what he's saying, but even if it is I appreciate when people explain why they think what thy do rather than just make a quick statement and run. Even if I flat out disagree with their conclusion. I personally don't think I actually know enough about Tomlin's pros and cons to add much to the debate, but I appreciate hearing all points of view when they are backed up with sound reasoning.

Also, I'm not sure how your two thoughts here go together. Is he a spoiled fan who should accept and expect less of Tomlin, or is he wrong about Tomlin's future excellence and he should actually expect more from the man? Or do you mean that his expectations of the team in general is unreasonable and therefore tainting his views about what Tomlin can or can't achieve?

I am just fed up with this coming up every time the team has a few bad games, that Tomlin has only won because of Cowher's players, and he really isn't that good. I mean again, what was he supposed to do when he took over the job? Bench or release all of those guys? As if it's a piece of cake to coach a team full of talent. If it was that easy, then Norv Turner would have multiple SB rings, would he not? And Preacher has pretty much put to rest this notion that he can't draft worth a damn. He's added a lot of key pieces to this team on BOTH sides of the ball (he does not just "know how to spot WR"...come on now, that's just silly, especially considering he was a DC and DB coach before taking the job here). He gets praise when he drafts Hood and Heyward at the time they were needed to fill spots for aging players, and now that they are underperforming/not getting playing time, all of a sudden they're questionable picks and he is a poor judge of talent? Boy, hindsight must be great.

Now none of this is to say that Tomlin is without his faults. He makes questionable decisions at times and still isn't very good with challenges, but that does not make him a poor coach. If that were the case, then every coach in the league must be terrible. He has had a lot of success so far in his career, and I'm confident that it will continue long after "Cowher's guys" are gone.

[Count Steeler]

Maybe Tomlin has had a bit too much success in his coaching career. SB with the Bucs, SB when he got here. 2nd SB trip here. He makes us forget how hard it actually is to win in the NFL.

I just don't know why the Rooneys even hired him.

Ohhhh, I get it. He HAS to WIN the SB every year. C'mon Mike, what is wrong with you!

[60_MINUTES]

I am just fed up with this coming up every time the team has a few bad games, that Tomlin has only won because of Cowher's players, and he really isn't that good. I mean again, what was he supposed to do when he took over the job? Bench or release all of those guys? As if it's a piece of cake to coach a team full of talent. If it was that easy, then Norv Turner would have multiple SB rings, would he not? And Preacher has pretty much put to rest this notion that he can't draft worth a damn. He's added a lot of key pieces to this team on BOTH sides of the ball (he does not just "know how to spot WR"...come on now, that's just silly, especially considering he was a DC and DB coach before taking the job here). He gets praise when he drafts Hood and Heyward at the time they were needed to fill spots for aging players, and now that they are underperforming/not getting playing time, all of a sudden they're questionable picks and he is a poor judge of talent? Boy, hindsight must be great.

Now none of this is to say that Tomlin is without his faults. He makes questionable decisions at times and still isn't very good with challenges, but that does not make him a poor coach. If that were the case, then every coach in the league must be terrible. He has had a lot of success so far in his career, and I'm confident that it will continue long after "Cowher's guys" are gone.

now thats a fair comeback.. I agree in the fact that we expect the world every time they take the field or do anything... Tomlin does have a hard job he is following two of the greatest coaches in history... and to this point is holding his own.. Lets hope he keeps it going....starting with this Sunday night LOL we need this one