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zulater
10-12-2012, 07:00 AM
It looks hopeless doesn't it? And waiting for Troy and Harrison to return to their prior DPOY best isn't a viable option.

The thing is even if you concede this season, where does it go from there? Do we have a nucleas that can be built around to the point that one great offseason could turn things around like they did in Texas in the 2011 offseason?

Speaking of which, a big part of that Texan turnaround was going and signing a true shut down corner in Johnathan Joseph. Would the Steelers ever do something like that? Doubtfull, therefore it looks pretty much hopeless to me.

Look at the inventory of worakable parts going foward. We have 3 young corners, all of who look able to possibly grown into decent nickel backs, but not one starting quality corner.

Safeties, outside of a 30 something Ryan Clark, nothing.

Linebackers? Woodley looks as if his hamstring problems might be chronic. Worldis looks like a decent low end starter. And Foote needs to retire. Timmons is a viable building block though.

Defensive line. Ziggy and Cam proably have game, but not enough to play in the 3-4.

Looks pretty bleak for the foreseeable future.

fansince'76
10-12-2012, 07:14 AM
How about rushing Harrison instead of dropping him back into coverage when the game is on the line, for starters?

Justin Otstott
10-12-2012, 07:28 AM
Draft or sign DB's next off-season, release Ike and company, and start looking to replace our safeties. Oh and hello everybody...

86WARD
10-12-2012, 07:35 AM
Outside of the DLine (which is serviceable...nothing special) and Timmons, the whole D needs work. Without Harrison, Worilds falls off the planet. It's going to be difficult to turn the D around that quickly.

However and I'm not sure of the salary cap relief numbers, Harrison, Hampton, possibly Wallace and Mendenhall all could come off the books plus there should be an increase (maybe that's 2014...). So there could be money to spend...but as we know, they like to keep their own first...

Edman
10-12-2012, 07:48 AM
Take any and all Defensive responsibilities from Lebeau and give it to somebody who won't call like scared little sackless crap on 3rd Down. That won't the bleeding, but it'll help.

The Defensive Talent isn't that bad, we just have a chicken**** defensive coordinator.

Edman
10-12-2012, 08:21 AM
How about rushing Harrison instead of dropping him back into coverage when the game is on the line, for starters?

No, don't wanna give up the "big play", remember? (Even though they did) Dick went chicken**** cowardly at the worst possible moment and the D got burned, again.

That "rush-two guys on 3rd and Long" call sealed it that Lebeau needs to be let go the moment this season is over. The Old man is finished.

suitanim
10-12-2012, 08:30 AM
Draft a couple safeties. We're going to need depth and Troy's replacement. We're also going to need a couple LBers, OR, the younger guys are going to have to work on picking things up faster. Worilds has FINALLY shown some kind of pass rush ability, but he looks kind of one-dimensional to me. Carter may be a bust, or maybe he just doesn't know what he's doing.

Moose
10-12-2012, 08:59 AM
Corner's a must. I've been saying that for year's. Our corner's suck, can't cover a baby. Way too much cushion on the WR's ( thank you LeBeau style, which doesn't work) and there is never any attempt to INTERCEPT, just let the WR catch and then chase them out of bounds, or run along side of them all the way to end zone. Secondly, be more aggressive on the QB rushing. There is NO pressure on QB what so ever. The opposing QB has time to read a book back there. Harrison needs to step it up, he's afraid of fines so much it's affecting his play. Thirdly, safeties suck, other than TROY of course, but we all know Troy is just about done. You could drive a truck down the middle of the field and wouldn't hit a defensive player. So many openings in the secondary in the Tenn. game I think I could have thrown a TD. 3rd and 7's were 15 yrd gains all night long. Sickening. And I hate saying it, I love Coach LeBeau, but maybe the defensive play calling needs to be updated or at least looked at. I also think the teams conditioning coaches should check out if what they are doing is working, i.e. game injuries. ( calves, hamstring, etc. ). Just my opinion on a few things. Get back to the STEELER football we all love !!

NCSteeler
10-12-2012, 09:55 AM
I've always liked that we ran the 3-4 . It was different hard to understand, exotic , but I'm leaning towards wanting a 4-3 for one simple reason. You can plug and play rookies and new talent much more easily. You see it all the time with 4-3 teams they draft some great college MLB and he plays day one and he's great. They draft soem fast strong DE pass rusher he comes in and makes a difference on day one. We draft guys we hope can play in a couple of season after they learn the complicated Lebeau system, HA maybe we should get opposing QBs to guest speak at training camp because here lately they seem to understand Lebeaus D pretty well.

NCSteeler
10-12-2012, 09:56 AM
Also , for all the offseason work outs Ike does, he must have lost a step or some confidence because he holds or interferes on 3/4 of the plays.

X-Terminator
10-12-2012, 12:13 PM
I've always liked that we ran the 3-4 . It was different hard to understand, exotic , but I'm leaning towards wanting a 4-3 for one simple reason. You can plug and play rookies and new talent much more easily. You see it all the time with 4-3 teams they draft some great college MLB and he plays day one and he's great. They draft soem fast strong DE pass rusher he comes in and makes a difference on day one. We draft guys we hope can play in a couple of season after they learn the complicated Lebeau system, HA maybe we should get opposing QBs to guest speak at training camp because here lately they seem to understand Lebeaus D pretty well.

The 4-3 would be perfect for Hood and Heyward, and Timmons is the perfect 4-3 MLB. I think you will see this once LeBeau retires after this season (hopefully).

SteelerFanInStl
10-12-2012, 12:27 PM
I think that a switch to the 4-3 and a new D coordinator are the first steps. The next steps would be to say goodbye to Hampton, Foote and Mundy and then get some young talent through the draft and free agency.

steelreserve
10-12-2012, 12:31 PM
Since I doubt we're going to find 6 or 7 new high-quality starters this offseason, probably the best thing we could try to fix it quickly would be using the 4-3. Right now I think our personnel aren't a great fit for a pressure-oriented 3-4, particularly on the defensive line, and our linebacker depth sucks, but we're forcing it anyway.

Put it this way: A defensive line of Hood-McLendon-Taamu-Heyward (or Woodley) in the 4-3 next year looks a hell of a lot more promising than the mess we've got now. Since Foote and Timmons are the only two starting LBs who are consistently healthy, a 4-3 leaves us with one less no-name backup on the field, and if Woodley is healthy, it's an extra bonus. Note that I'm not even counting Harrison, Keisel or Hampton in the mix, because past this year, who the hell knows.

That leaves the secondary, where I hope we spend a top draft pick this year, since it looks like we may have a good one. I don't think it really matters whether we get a safety or a CB; we need both. If we're lucky, we'll get at least one more decent year out of Taylor and have 3 of the 4 spots covered (not holding my breath for Troy at the 4th spot).

Hopefully that would improve things. Even then, it would take an awful lot of things falling into place just so. But otherwise I don't see a really bright future in the short term.

Carolina Steelers
10-12-2012, 12:36 PM
Also , for all the offseason work outs Ike does, he must have lost a step or some confidence because he holds or interferes on 3/4 of the plays.

I agree every game he gets flagged @ least twice and other times they just dont catch him. Last night Ike gave-up 8 of 13 balls for 126yds and a TD, also flagged 3 times

BlastFurnace
10-12-2012, 04:08 PM
I'd start playing the younger players at certain positions where available, with the lone exception being Harrison. Including this year, It's been clear for 3 years now that Hampton is finished. How can Taamu be any worse! Keisel goes to the bench too.

The team needs to find out what kind of CB's Brown and Allen are. I sit Ike and play Allen.

There isn't much of an option at LB'er. There are no young LB'ers other than Wordlis that has shown anything. That being said, there hasn't been much of a dropoff from Woodley to Wordlis. Woodley had about 1 or 2 less tackles last night than when he is actually playing.

Finally, after this season, it's time for Kevin Butler to take over the reigns as DC and John Mitchell needs to follow LeBeau out the door.

st33lersguy
10-12-2012, 04:18 PM
Cut Casey Hampton and start McClendon with Ta'amu as backup. Cut Mundy and Lewis, whoever replaces those two bums posing as NFL players will be better by default. Fire LeBeau, whoever replaces him will be better by default. Bench Kiesel and Hood, these two bums have literally done nothing all year. Bench Ike, he has clearly regressed. I don't care how much chaos insues, the resulting chaos will still be better than this garbage defense

BlastFurnace
10-12-2012, 04:25 PM
Cut Casey Hampton and start McClendon with Ta'amu as backup. Cut Mundy and Lewis, whoever replaces those two bums posing as NFL players will be better by default. Fire LeBeau, whoever replaces him will be better by default. Bench Kiesel and Hood, these two bums have literally done nothing all year. Bench Ike, he has clearly regressed. I don't care how much chaos insues, the resulting chaos will still be better than this garbage defense

Hood is either not a good player or completely not cut out for this scheme.

How on earth can a player play an entire game and have 0 tackles and 0 assists!

That's another one I'd sit. I'd rather see Al Woods out there and see what he can do in place of Hood.

Count Steeler
10-12-2012, 04:27 PM
Hey Zu, when (if you are going to put yourself through that torture again) you rewatch the game, can you watch how far off the line the D lines up compared to the Titans. I noticed it a couple of times last night and it just struck me strange that they would already yield a yard to the OLine and not be fighting to defend every blade of grass.

Devilsdancefloor
10-12-2012, 04:39 PM
brown allen van dyke start move lewis to safety or let golden play see what he is made of have the dline ATTACK as well as the LBERs. (i can not believe i have waited what seems like a eternity for a freaking O i can say stacks up against anyone only to look and see the D is a shell of itself) play press coverage this 7 yard cushion we give up just screens slant or crossing route. NEVER play prevent D again it only prevents us from winning. i would also like to see the young NT's play more big snack isnt getting it done at all. hell i want to see what robinson can do while woodley is out. basically let the younglings play they can not do any worse than what we have now. talk to coach dad and remind he to attack attack attack

on the O side pfft what can you really do the damn oline is well hurt as always from center & the right side of the line. The RB's all all injured batch did a good job filling in when he needed, but we need help with a good back.

(on a side note i think cortez has been playing lights out)

steeldevil
10-12-2012, 05:17 PM
Ike and Hampton to the bench, Cortez Allen and McClendon start.

Try playing more press man and bet on Allen's athleticism holding up in coverage long enough for the BLITZ to get there. That could help force turnovers too.

BigNastyDefense
10-12-2012, 05:55 PM
I would sit Ike Taylor down next week. He wouldn't start. He hasn't been the shutdown corner that he has been before & worse he's a penalty machine. I am starting to wonder if that bad game against Tebow & the Broncos was the beginning of the end for him. He damn sure wouldn't start.

I don't know what to do about the safety play because both of our backups suck pretty bad. We need to start looking for Troy's replacement, I have a feeling this might be his last season. If not after this season, he's retiring after next season.

We also need to find a replacement for James Harrison. Back and knee problems at his age don't go away. I don't think his replacement is on this roster.

Outside of that, it sucks because without Troy you can't do the exotic stuff that LeBeau likes to call.

The only thing I can think of other than replacing players is asking Dick LeBeau to retire. Maybe the defense needs a new voice, a new guy calling the plays and planning the schemes.

Count Steeler
10-12-2012, 06:06 PM
We are not going to find a replacement for Troy. He is unique and we may never see his type again. The system has to fit the players. The defensive coaches have to assess their talent and build on that. You can teach to a point, but a square peg will always be a square peg. If they blew it in the draft, then oh well! You have to use the tools that are in front of you. If Hood and Heyward can't play the 3-4, then time to change up a bit.

Time to make some adjustments and build on the strengths of the players. You can't wait around for another Polamalu. Not going to happen.

oneforthetoe
10-12-2012, 06:14 PM
The 4-3 would be perfect for Hood and Heyward, and Timmons is the perfect 4-3 MLB. I think you will see this once LeBeau retires after this season (hopefully).


I agree that Hood and Heywood might be better at a 4 man line. Of course, almost any d'linemen would be. Not sure about Timmons as a middle linebacker in a 4-3. I would be ok with switching to a 4-3 if that works, but I think that is a bit grasping at straws to just assume we would have a good 4-3. I have seen nothing that shows where the outside rushing d'ends would come from. Maybe we have those players and maybe we don't. Woodley would be the most likely, but who pass rushes from the the other end.

I would like to add that I wouldn't mind us playing a little hybrid to shake things up.

dislocatedday
10-12-2012, 06:55 PM
The 4-3 would be perfect for Hood and Heyward, and Timmons is the perfect 4-3 MLB. I think you will see this once LeBeau retires after this season (hopefully).

Exactly my thoughts. I was hesitant to say it because the 3-4 is virtually synonymous with the Steelers, but let the front four attack more. I think it could work with the personnel they have.

Edman
10-12-2012, 07:00 PM
You can't "replace" Troy Polamalu. Troy is a once in a generation player. There will never again be a Troy Polamalu.

GBMelBlount
10-12-2012, 07:02 PM
Wow. There are a ton of good ideas here.

GREAT thread.

steelreserve
10-12-2012, 07:03 PM
You can't "replace" Troy Polamalu. Troy is a once in a generation player. There will never again be a Troy Polamalu.

You could probably replace him 1-for-1 with someone like, say, Ronnie Lott. But again, same problem. I don't see too many of him around either.

ALLD
10-12-2012, 07:07 PM
I think that a switch to the 4-3 and a new D coordinator are the first steps. The next steps would be to say goodbye to Hampton, Foote and Mundy and then get some young talent through the draft and free agency.

You might be right, but Foote is actually having the best season of his career.

ALLD
10-12-2012, 07:08 PM
You could probably replace him 1-for-1 with someone like, say, Ronnie Lott. But again, same problem. I don't see too many of him around either.

You can count the number of Troy Polamalu's and Ronnie Lott's using the fingers on one hand, pun intended.

Devilsdancefloor
10-12-2012, 07:22 PM
I thin the steelers where used to getting players they wanted due to not many teams playing 3-4, but that has changed. I like the idea of the 4-3 for us cause if you look at our big nickel that is basically what it is and it worked nice when they have used it

steelreserve
10-12-2012, 07:28 PM
I thin the steelers where used to getting players they wanted due to not many teams playing 3-4, but that has changed. I like the idea of the 4-3 for us cause if you look at our big nickel that is basically what it is and it worked nice when they have used it

Victims of their own success. I had a feeling we were going to have a tough time replacing some of our aging players when I saw B.J. Raji go #9 overall. When you see a guy like Dontari Poe go #11, that further confirms it. You aren't going to get the guys you need for to sustain winning if you're drafting in the late 20s or early 30s ... which is where you'll be if you win ... so something's got to give.

zulater
10-12-2012, 07:38 PM
Wow. There are a ton of good ideas here.

GREAT thread.

Reading most of the responces here, I was thinking the same thing. It is a great thread. Too bad one of the beat writers hasn't posed the question we ask here to Tomlin, Colbert, or Art Rooney III.

GBMelBlount
10-12-2012, 07:51 PM
Reading most of the responces here, I was thinking the same thing. It is a great thread. Too bad one of the beat writers hasn't posed the question we ask here to Tomlin, Colbert, or Art Rooney III.

I wonder if a team has to be officially a 3-4 or 4-3....and if a team can sort of transition over a year or two....sort of phase it in.

SteelerFanInStl
10-12-2012, 07:58 PM
You might be right, but Foote is actually having the best season of his career.

A good year for him but avg at best for most other starting ILBers. If we transition to the 4-3, Foote is out. He can't play MLB. There's no way that he can go sideline to sideline. He's too slow. Spence would hopefully be the backup to Timmons.

86WARD
10-12-2012, 08:13 PM
Ike isn't a man corner anymore. He excels more at a zone at this point in his career.

Devilsdancefloor
10-12-2012, 08:19 PM
I wonder if a team has to be officially a 3-4 or 4-3....and if a team can sort of transition over a year or two....sort of phase it in.

http://i47.tinypic.com/sv54k8.jpg


after the 1st quarter of this game we played alot of big nickel and press coverage the only thing i would change is 98 would be sitting and 90 would be in and now that harrison i sback he would replace a DB in this formation and on nickel downs i think foote would be out

steelreserve
10-12-2012, 11:13 PM
A good year for him but avg at best for most other starting ILBers. If we transition to the 4-3, Foote is out. He can't play MLB. There's no way that he can go sideline to sideline. He's too slow. Spence would hopefully be the backup to Timmons.

I think in the 4-3 Foote would be an outside LB. In fact, he might make the transition to a strong-side OLB quite well. He may not have Pro Bowl skills, but covering the underneath stuff to the TE or a RB while guarding the run and occasionally blitzing is pretty much an exact profile of his strengths. Harrison or Woodley would be wasted in that role, so one of them would probably play the blitzing/run-stuffing weak-side OLB who doesn't have to drop into coverage as much.

And yeah, if Timmons went down, we'd be fecked. But as it is, we're already so thin that we're always one or two injuries away from total ruin, so ...

Steeldude
10-13-2012, 04:38 AM
Play more aggressively. Bump n' run more often. Send all out blitzes once in awhile. Have Harrison attack from the strong side on occasion. Tell the DL to attack rather than laying back(supposedly taking up blockers).

Steeldude
10-13-2012, 04:43 AM
but who pass rushes from the the other end.



Heyward 6', 5" played DE at Ohio St.

Heyward - Hood - Mclendon - Woodley

Harrison - Timmons - anyone besides Foote

JayC
10-13-2012, 07:39 PM
unless they pull a miracle and fix this defense i hope this is dick's last year. i hope we can get a new coordinator that doesn't use the same gameplan 95% of the games and go soft when someone gets hurt or in the 4th quarter. either way though, i understand they probably need better players which can take multiple seasons :(

zulater
10-13-2012, 07:41 PM
I would sit Ike Taylor down next week. He wouldn't start. He hasn't been the shutdown corner that he has been before & worse he's a penalty machine. I am starting to wonder if that bad game against Tebow & the Broncos was the beginning of the end for him. He damn sure wouldn't start.

I don't know what to do about the safety play because both of our backups suck pretty bad. We need to start looking for Troy's replacement, I have a feeling this might be his last season. If not after this season, he's retiring after next season.

We also need to find a replacement for James Harrison. Back and knee problems at his age don't go away. I don't think his replacement is on this roster.

Outside of that, it sucks because without Troy you can't do the exotic stuff that LeBeau likes to call.

The only thing I can think of other than replacing players is asking Dick LeBeau to retire. Maybe the defense needs a new voice, a new guy calling the plays and planning the schemes.

I agree I would bump Ike Taylor down in the corner rotation to the nickel or dime. Leave Lewis where he's at. His game is slowly starting to improve. Put Cortez Allen in Ike's place. I doubt that Allen is ready, but I'll tell you this, he couldn't play worse than Taylor has this season. He's ( Ike) been awful. He's been beat more often than about any corner in the league, and he must be at the top of the list for most penalties commited as well. It's not just one bad game. He's stunk all season.

Now here's an interesting proposition and I doubt it could be pulled off in season. But going into the offseason I wonder if it would be worthwhile trying to switch Taylor to safety? He's got all the qualities you look for in a safety ( other than good hands :lol:) and you could hire Rod Woodson to help him make the transistion.

Just a thought.

X-Terminator
10-13-2012, 07:50 PM
I agree I would bump Ike Taylor down in the corner rotation to the nickel or dime. Leave Lewis where he's at. His game is slowly starting to improve. Put Cortez Allen in Ike's place. I doubt that Allen is ready, but I'll tell you this, he couldn't play worse than Taylor has this season. He's ( Ike) been awful. He's been beat more often than about any corner in the league, and he must be at the top of the list for most penalties commited as well. It's not just one bad game. He's stunk all season.

Now here's an interesting proposition and I doubt it could be pulled off in season. But going into the offseason I wonder if it would be worthwhile trying to switch Taylor to safety? He's got all the qualities you look for in a safety ( other than good hands :lol:) and you could hire Rod Woodson to help him make the transistion.

Just a thought.

That's not a bad idea, actually, but not something you can try unless you know for sure you won't have either Troy or Clark next season. Failing that, I agree he should be benched in favor of Cortez Allen, and only be used in the nickel. I doubt Allen could play any worse.

steeldawg
10-14-2012, 08:22 AM
Trade them for the 49ers defense

suitanim
10-14-2012, 09:44 AM
Hmmm...what about Tyrann Mathieu? I know he's a CB, but he's the kind of guy who MIGHT be able to play the "Troy" role in this defense? Character MAY be a problem, and he MAY be back in school next year, but what if he comes out?

steeldawg
10-14-2012, 10:10 AM
Hmmm...what about Tyrann Mathieu? I know he's a CB, but he's the kind of guy who MIGHT be able to play the "Troy" role in this defense? Character MAY be a problem, and he MAY be back in school next year, but what if he comes out?

i like him hes a little on the small side but hes a playmaker and has a great nose for the ball.

Chidi29
10-14-2012, 02:30 PM
So no suggestions of how to fix the defense for this year?

We're just going to mail in this season, already?

zulater
10-14-2012, 02:59 PM
So no suggestions of how to fix the defense for this year?

We're just going to mail in this season, already?

No one's stopping you from telling us how to fix it this year.

Chidi29
10-14-2012, 03:29 PM
No one's stopping you from telling us how to fix it this year.

And I will try to do so after I watch the Titans' game.

The solutions shouldn't be to wait until April's draft or blow up the whole defense.

zulater
10-14-2012, 03:37 PM
And I will try to do so after I watch the Titans' game.

The solutions shouldn't be to wait until April's draft or blow up the whole defense.

I've been watching it some already. And the more I see the more I'm convinced that Ike Taylor needs to be benched immediatly! Every offensive point the Titans scored was strongly influenced by Taylor misdeeds. In retrospect I think that's true of a good number of the points scored against the Steelers for the season to date as well.

I know Cortez Allen probably isn't ready, and probably never will be a number one corner like Ike was. But I honestly don't think he could be worse than Ike's been so far this season. I mean we're talking Dewayne Washington bad. Chad Scott after his knee was shot bad. It's ugly and not getting better. It has to be done in my opinio n before Ike loses us another game.

Chidi29
10-14-2012, 04:13 PM
Ike also goes against #1 WRs each week. Often times in straight man coverage. No other corner on this team can do that.

zulater
10-14-2012, 04:24 PM
Ike also goes against #1 WRs each week. Often times in straight man coverage. No other corner on this team can do that.

You think I don't know that? :doh:

Look it's bad, worse than I thought. Again I'm old enough to know of what I speak, and we're talking Dewayne Washington bad. In the past Ike has been able to make up for his total lack of spacial recogniction of the ball in flight with his athleticism and body control. I think age has robbed him of that half step and now not only does he lose the ball, he loses the receiver.

Let me try this again. :doh: His never had great ball awareness, but his ability to recover on a play was good because of his athletic ability. Now with that half step gone, he can't recover on plays anymore without interfering or holding, or giving up the catch. Of all which he's doing at an all time worst.

zulater
10-14-2012, 04:29 PM
Ike also goes against #1 WRs each week. Often times in straight man coverage. No other corner on this team can do that.

No other corner on this team is asked to do it on a consistent basis. And certainly not against the other team's top receiver. But that doesn't mean no one can. Or at least that no one can at the level of Ike this season. Ike's playing terrible right now. Maybe we need to go strictly zone then if no one else can step up. But right now Ike is getting us beat.

Steeldude
10-14-2012, 04:46 PM
Ike also goes against #1 WRs each week. Often times in straight man coverage. No other corner on this team can do that.

I am sure the other CBs are quite capable of grabbing the WR too :thumbsup:

Chidi29
10-14-2012, 05:37 PM
You think I don't know that? :doh:

Look it's bad, worse than I thought. Again I'm old enough to know of what I speak, and we're talking Dewayne Washington bad. In the past Ike has been able to make up for his total lack of spacial recogniction of the ball in flight with his athleticism and body control. I think age has robbed him of that half step and now not only does he lose the ball, he loses the receiver.

Let me try this again. :doh: His never had great ball awareness, but his ability to recover on a play was good because of his athletic ability. Now with that half step gone, he can't recover on plays anymore without interfering or holding, or giving up the catch. Of all which he's doing at an all time worst.

If you do know that, then I don't know why you're suggesting doing something else. Joe Haden was killed by AJ Green today. It's insane to think Keenan Lewis is going to fare any better.

zulater
10-14-2012, 05:46 PM
If you do know that, then I don't know why you're suggesting doing something else. Joe Haden was killed by AJ Green today. It's insane to think Keenan Lewis is going to fare any better.

I've already said I'd leave Lewis where he's at. I'd give Ike's job to Cortez Allen and go trial by fire. The kid's got some game. Trust me, he couldn't do any worse than Ike. Or have you not been watching?

zulater
10-14-2012, 05:48 PM
I am sure the other CBs are quite capable of grabbing the WR too :thumbsup:


Exactly! Ike has been getting torched all year. You could put a traffic cone out there to no worse results. Well actually the traffic cone couldn't grab and hold, so probably better results.

Chidi29
10-14-2012, 05:53 PM
I've already said I'd leave Lewis where he's at. I'd give Ike's job to Cortez Allen and go trial by fire. The kid's got some game. Trust me, he couldn't do any worse than Ike. Or have you not been watching?

I don't like baptism by fire as a solution. I know it feels like a rough few weeks but I'm not going to make any knee-jerk reactions of that magnitude trump what Ike has meant to this team for so long. It's not a sentimental thing either; I know there comes a point where a player breaks down. But I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet. Ike is as competitive as anybody and if there's going to be a player who can step up to the challenge and rebound, it's him.

zulater
10-14-2012, 05:58 PM
I don't like baptism by fire as a solution. I know it feels like a rough few weeks but I'm not going to make any knee-jerk reactions of that magnitude trump what Ike has meant to this team for so long. It's not a sentimental thing either; I know there comes a point where a player breaks down. But I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet. Ike is as competitive as anybody and if there's going to be a player who can step up to the challenge and rebound, it's him.

Remember Cowher benched Ike for the latter part of the 2006 season, and Steeler football didn't cease to exist as we know it. :tongue1:

Seriously if Ike got injured do you think the season ends right there? Other guys can step up and do the job. and right now Ike's doing it so poorly it's hard to imagine how anyone could do worse.

In the end it's not so much about what the young corners can or can't do, it's about what Ike apparently is no longer capable of.

Players are like race horses in that they can get old overnight and you don't always see it coming. Look at Alan Faneca. Within two years he goes from perrenial All Pro to a guy that can barely hang on to a roster spot. Same with Hines Ward. Hines was a huge part of the team's Super Bowl run in 2010. In 2011, as the season proggressed it was fairly obvious that he just wasn't the same guy.

I really don't think it's a matter of focus or re emphasizing fundamentals for Ike. I just think he's past it. And while we might not have the right replacement on the roster, you still have to make the move because Ike is embarrasing himslef and hurting the team every game now.

Chidi29
10-14-2012, 06:26 PM
No, it's not the end of the world. But it isn't a move made because of injury.

If we start making these knee-jerk reactions now, you're going to do the same from here on out. Think Cortez is going to have a couple bad games if you put him against #1 WRs all year long? You bet. Do you bench him? What about Keenan? What about any player that isn't elite?

All I'm saying is that it's a slippery slope.

If Ike was getting beat by guys far inferior to him, it'd be a different story. But it's not easy for any corner in the league to hang with guys that have size/speed combos of Demaryius Thomas and Kenny Britt.

zulater
10-14-2012, 06:44 PM
No, it's not the end of the world. But it isn't a move made because of injury.

If we start making these knee-jerk reactions now, you're going to do the same from here on out. Think Cortez is going to have a couple bad games if you put him against #1 WRs all year long? You bet. Do you bench him? What about Keenan? What about any player that isn't elite?

All I'm saying is that it's a slippery slope.

If Ike was getting beat by guys far inferior to him, it'd be a different story. But it's not easy for any corner in the league to hang with guys that have size/speed combos of Demaryius Thomas and Kenny Britt.

Honestly I think you overrate Ike. I've thought for two years now that he's been overrated. He's nothing close to a shut down corner, never has been though he's had good games against good receivers over the years. But he's always been inconsistent. In the past he'd follow up a great game against a top end receiver with a hideous game against an average one.

If he leaves the line up things wont get worse. It's been so bad lately that it couldn't. Crummy qb's are beating Ike like a drum week after week. the worst that can happen is that it stays the same.

Chidi29
10-14-2012, 06:46 PM
But based on what I've seen from Ike in the past, and even at points this year, it can get a lot better. I don't think we'll see the typical Ike-caliber player from Cortez Allen.

zulater
10-14-2012, 06:51 PM
But based on what I've seen from Ike in the past, and even at points this year, it can get a lot better. I don't think we'll see the typical Ike-caliber player from Cortez Allen.

I don't think we'll ever see anything close to it again from Ike either. Again players get old overnight in the NFL. the evidence is strongly suggesting that Ike's time may be past. How many more games do we give him like the last 5 before we realize it's not going to improve?

zulater
10-14-2012, 06:57 PM
Earliar on this thread you asked for suggestions on how we can improve things this season. Now we're suggesting something and you want to immediatly dismiss it.

Here's a stat you may not be aware of. On the road so far this season the Steelers have allowed the opposition to convert 11 of13 3rd downs for an 84.6 percent success rate. Care to guess how many of them have come at the expense of our supposed number 1 corner?

zulater
10-14-2012, 07:14 PM
By the way Keenan Lewis ended up in coverage on Kenny Britt on several plays and aquitted himself nicely.

60_MINUTES
10-14-2012, 10:50 PM
Those suggesting switching to the 4-3 I dont see it... We didnt convince Butler to stay and pay him good money fot be a LB coach to switch him to a 4-3 ... He is Dicks replacement and I think will be a young hungry version of Dick...... We need to draft a number one Corner and move Ike Taylor to Saftey...he will shut down any 4th 5th WR as well as any TE in the league..so Two problems are solved with one pick... second round find a ILB that can flat out tackle... doesnt have to be the next Ray lewis just a guy that can play the game and tackle a RB..Earl Holmes kind of guy would be fine...then hope Troy can get healthy for one or two years and you would be fine ( oh yeah Play your young guys and number one picks....

Hood McClendon Heyward up front, Harrison Woodley out side , Troy, Ike, safetys. First round CB, and cortez Allen along with lewis at nickel.... thats a number one D...then get you an OUTSIDE Linebacker and Safety the next years Draft and your rebuilt.... by the way the O doesnt need anything for a few years...so its not as bad as it seems guys but you have to let your youth and number one picks play and lets win some ball games....

Chidi29
10-14-2012, 10:50 PM
I don't think we'll ever see anything close to it again from Ike either. Again players get old overnight in the NFL. the evidence is strongly suggesting that Ike's time may be past. How many more games do we give him like the last 5 before we realize it's not going to improve?

Let's keep in mind it's not like Ike is playing that terribly. Sure, there's room for improvement. But a lot of those throws have been fades and back shoulder throws. Tough for anyone to stop, I don't care how good you are.

Chidi29
10-14-2012, 10:52 PM
I will throw out on suggestion regarding Ike Taylor.

What if we had him shadow the #2 WR in his usual solo coverage and then had Lewis take on the #1 with a safety shadowing a lot of the time? Have Allen/Mundy over the top with Troy out and Clark can still come down in the box and play the run at times.

bayz101
10-14-2012, 10:59 PM
Chidi, I like that idea, but i'm so discouraged from even discussion defense adjustments because I know Lebeau doesn't make them. It's depressing.

Chidi29
10-14-2012, 11:08 PM
Chidi, I like that idea, but i'm so discouraged from even discussion defense adjustments because I know Lebeau doesn't make them. It's depressing.

I find that to be totally off base. Just because you don't think you see an adjustment, doesn't mean they aren't there. Often times, especially early in the year, the adjustments are very minute.

If picking apart an offense or defensive scheme was so easy, coaches' tape wouldn't be studied so much and wouldn't be so valuable.

Steelman
10-14-2012, 11:25 PM
I think we could efficiently run a hybrid 3-4/4-3. The Seahawks are doing it, and everyone can see how that's working for them. I give them props for using the pieces they've got.

This article's from before the season, but seriously one of the most comprehensive I've ever read: http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/5/7/2999852/on-seahawks-defensive-scheme-versatility-diversity

Granted our personnel is currently catered to the 3-4 (with the exception of possibly Hood and Timmons) but I've thinking for awhile now that our scheme and talent weren't meshing anymore. Clark and Polamalu can say that it comes down to execution all they want, but when it comes down to it, they're getting beat, and beat pretty bad.

Ike's lost a step. Unfortunately he's still our best and most experienced corner. I like the idea to solo him on the #2 WR and shade the #1 with Cortez + a safety. But not not Mundy. Give Will Allen a shot, or even Golden.

I noticed the Pack playing Woodson as an outside backer. Could we do that with Clark? Or would that even help with anything, maybe free up Timmons?

Sit Hampton, or at least bring in McLenden on 3rd downs. Hampton's not getting any push.

Forget about backing Harrison in coverage, just rush him every down.

I don't know if it's even possible to begin implementing 4-3 schemes in the middle of the season, but I think we've outgrown the 3-4, whether on accident or on purpose.

KeiselPower99
10-15-2012, 06:21 PM
For the rest of the season if we dont have Troy dont play a defense based around him. This defense is actually good we just have to adjust the play calling to the players we have. I would also play more McClendon and have Hampton spell him when needed. Put our best 4 pass rushers out there as much as possible. We are a 3-4 team but show different pre snap formations and personal groupings.