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stillers4me
10-07-2012, 04:31 PM
Heros: Mendenhall and Timmons

Zeros: Willie Colon and Mike "I can't catch a freakin cold" Wallace


Honorable mention to James Harrison for playing the whole game!!

venom
10-07-2012, 04:38 PM
I second that about Colon. Also good job by Swish

HollywoodSteel
10-07-2012, 04:46 PM
Zero to Lewis for not tackling the dude behind the line on 4th down.

Butch
10-07-2012, 04:47 PM
Hero Timmons and RushHard

Goats gee hmmm who could it be...Satin??? No he'll get his chance later this week when he issues out fines and suspensions. Guess it has to be some guy on the o-line who singlehandedly cost us a ton of yardage. I won't bother to mention Willies name. I think you all know who I am talking about.

HollywoodSteel
10-07-2012, 04:49 PM
Okay, I'm going to give props to Dick for putting together some aggressive stuff allowing Timmons to come through the line untouched a couple of times. He also had to go without Troy and Woodley for most of the game.

HollywoodSteel
10-07-2012, 04:51 PM
Clark also committed a very dumb penalty that he knows gets flagged every time in this league. If he gets suspended for it (or somewhere down the line because this added to his total) I will be very pissed.

Craic
10-07-2012, 04:53 PM
Willie Colon had a great run blocking day.
His pass blocking day wasn't so good.

Mendy looked great today. He is at an entirely different level than our other backs. But he HAS to hold on to the ball better when playing in the rain.

Ben seemed a little off on a few things today, but all in all, still a very nice effort. I think he knew he was off as well, and decided to make do with his feet a little more in the first half, until he hit a rhythm.

100+ yards in penalties is ridiculous. Look. The rules haven't changed in 2 or 3 years now. Stop with the stupid crap. Covering the TE? Stupid. Head to head hits after how many fines? Grow up and play the game according to today's rules whether ya like 'em or not. Sad. Running out of bounds on a kick? Pathetic.

Defense did a great job containing Vick. They also did a very good job limiting the big runs.


Am I the only one who still cringes when Squeezeme comes on to the field to kick? He's been perfect this season so far, and very impressive, and yet, I still have no confidence in him. And I admit it, the more he goes without missing, the more I'm going to be waiting for the big miss when we need it most. Not fair to Squeezeme, because he's doing a great job so far. But unfortunately, it IS the truth.

And and GREAT JOB COACH! to Lebeau. After the Oakland game, to retool the schemes and gets also to get your veterans to settle people down, that's impressive.

steelerdude15
10-07-2012, 05:06 PM
The hero was definitely Mendy. He played great today, having a good comeback and not showing any fear whatsoever. He broke tackles, had a couple of good runs (one was called back), and made a difference in the passing game by becoming a good receiver. He made plays when the ball was thrown to him. Honorable mentions go to Ben, Lawrence, and Shaun.

The zero would definitely be Colon. I believe he had four penalties against him. That's not acceptable and he definitely needs to improve on his pass blocking.

st33lersguy
10-07-2012, 05:08 PM
Heroes: Big Ben, coming through in the clutch and engineering another 4th quarter comeback, Mendy, running with authority and playing a huge role on that final drive, Timmons for ferocious play. Suisham, coming through in the clutch

Zeroes: Troy's calf, the defensive backfield that blew the 10 point lead, Willie Kemoeatu Colon,

Craic
10-07-2012, 05:37 PM
I wouldn't call this a breakout game, but it was a definitely a game where Worilds started coming of age.

4 tackles - doesn't look like much right?

All four were solo
One was a sack
Two were tackles for a loss
he also had two QB hits.

That's a pretty good game.

stillers4me
10-07-2012, 05:38 PM
Steelers Depot‏@SteelersdepotWillie Colon has been flagged 8 times in 4 games (6) holding (2) false starts #steelers (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/search/?q=%23steelers&src=hash)

Craic
10-07-2012, 06:01 PM
Steelers Depot‏@SteelersdepotWillie Colon has been flagged 8 times in 4 games (6) holding (2) false starts #steelers (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/search/?q=%23steelers&src=hash)

That's only a 2 penalty per game average - I think that's his best average of his career!

oneforthetoe
10-07-2012, 06:05 PM
I wouldn't call this a breakout game, but it was a definitely a game where Worilds started coming of age.

4 tackles - doesn't look like much right?

All four were solo
One was a sack
Two were tackles for a loss
he also had two QB hits.

That's a pretty good game.

I noticed last year that he seems to fill better on the left side of the D when replacing Woodly than he does when he has to sub for Harrison on the right.

zulater
10-07-2012, 06:26 PM
Clark also committed a very dumb penalty that he knows gets flagged every time in this league. If he gets suspended for it (or somewhere down the line because this added to his total) I will be very pissed.

Especially since Troy figures to be out a month or more.

zulater
10-07-2012, 06:48 PM
If we had lost this is what would be pissing me off right now...

Big Ben missing a wide open Heath Miller on the right sideline on a play that at the very least would have given us first and goal inside the 10, but more likely would have resulted in another Heath Miller touchdown catch. You could tell Ben was wishing he had that one back as soon as the play was dead. :frusty:

Antonio Brown letting a touchdown pass slide right threw his hands on the Steelers last possession of the 1st half. Antonio had a great game overall. But that was a play he could have and should have made that would have put us in a much better situation going into the locker room.

Cotchery tripping over his own damn feet the very next play! I know it was bad luck, and I'm not going to hold it against Cotch. But damn man . Just keep your left foot out of your right foot's way and you get the damn TD!

Mike Wallace not even trying for the ball on a 4th down desperation heave from Ben into the end zone.:mad2: He most likely wasn't going to make the play anyway, but the complete lack of effort there was galling! He could have possibly drawn a flag had he at least gone vertical there!

Mike Wallace's overall game. Multiple drops, lack of effort. And he can't even line up in the right place. Cost us a nice run just because he didn't know where he was supposed to line the fuck up!!! :frusty:

Keenan Lewis not being able to wrap up and tackle on a 4th down play where he met Shady McCoy in the backfield! :yell: Inexcusable! If he makes that play the Steelers start a possession inside the Eagles 35 and likely end the game right there!

Willie "The hook" Colon. How many holds will he draw this year? What's the all time Steeler record? Might be an interesting race? :doh:

Ryan Clark for going helmet to helmet and invoking a 15 yarder on a play that was for all intent purposes already dead! Mundy's hit I have no problem with. Kid was playing the game the way it's supposed to be, and just got unlucky on where his and the receiver's helmet's met. If Clark gets suspended, particularly with Troy likely to miss multiple games. where the fuck does that leave us?! Stupid play Ryan! :frusty:

But we won, so I'm happy. So it's ok for today! :thumbsup:

Steeldude
10-07-2012, 07:04 PM
Mike "I can't catch a freakin cold" Wallace



It's his poor fundamentals. He doesn't know how or when to rotate his hands to make a catch. You would think a WR who thinks he is worth $11,000,000 would know how to do it

Steeldude
10-07-2012, 07:05 PM
I noticed last year that he seems to fill better on the left side of the D when replacing Woodly than he does when he has to sub for Harrison on the right.

It's easier on Woodley's side because you are often matched up with a TE.

Craic
10-07-2012, 07:09 PM
Ryan Clark for going helmet to helmet and invoking a 15 yarder on a play that was for all intent purposes already dead! Mundy's hit I have no problem with. Kid was playing the game the way it's supposed to be, and just got unlucky on where his and the receiver's helmet's met. If Clark gets suspended, particularly with Troy likely to miss multiple games. where the fuck does that leave us?! Stupid play Ryan! :frusty:

Funny, this is exactly how I feel on both counts. I'm still not sure if Mundy's helmet even hit him. But Clark has to grow up. It's a classic example of what I call "ESPN hits" and why players don't wrap anymore.

oneforthetoe
10-07-2012, 07:26 PM
It's easier on Woodley's side because you are often matched up with a TE.

Yea I forgot, that is how Woodley is making the HOF, by beating TEs and rbs :lol:

zulater
10-07-2012, 07:33 PM
Funny, this is exactly how I feel on both counts. I'm still not sure if Mundy's helmet even hit him. But Clark has to grow up. It's a classic example of what I call "ESPN hits" and why players don't wrap anymore.


It did. The penalty was legit by today's standards. By that I mean you can't blame the ref for making the call. And he'll probably be fined, and possibly be suspended ( due to the previous finable hit) but I hope not. You don't withhold a flag over intent, I get that. But a fine shouldn't be levied on that sort of play. Ever!

steelreserve
10-07-2012, 08:10 PM
Heroes were definitely Ben and Mendenhall. Man, maybe there is a glimmer of hope for the running game.

Colon isn't even worthy of being called a zero. More like the Dumbfuck of the Century So Far Award. What did he have, 40 yards in penalties all by himself today?

I also worry about our safeties when Troy isn't in, and not because of the obvious drop-off in skill. Clark and Mundy are a couple of meatheads when they're out there together.


edit: I almost forgot Timmons. He basically made the whole defense work today.

zulater
10-07-2012, 08:38 PM
Hero's

Mendenhall. Great game. Ran with great balance, vision, and determination. I think Haley's offense will fit Mendy like a glove. I think 40-60 receiving yards will become typical for Mendy once he's immersed into the system.

Timmons. Been a milk carton for the first 3 games, but came on today and played like an All Pro. Hope this was the standard from now on rather than an a one game anomoly.

Big Ben. Almost threw it away when he missed a wide open Heath Miller. But rallied nicely leading the Steelers on a game winning drive. Also was unlucky on an end zone drop by Brown, and Cothery tripping on his own feet the very next play with a clear path to the end zone.

Sushi. Guy hasn't missed yet this year (tap wood :pray: ) Knocked game winner right down the middle, never a moment of doubt!

Drew Butler. Nice game punting on a day where field position was vital!

Pouncey, and Marcus Gilbert. Two Gators who had a great week end!

James Harrison. Might not show on the stat sheet so much, but the Eagles certainly were aware he was there! Hurried Vick into several incompletions. Kept his lane integrity all game which made McCoy's job down right impossible at times! He was the difference maker today.

Count Steeler
10-07-2012, 08:57 PM
Swish is money from the right hash. I was in a restaurant and they had the game on. I looked up to see the situation and I saw he was kicking from the right hash, and I knew we would win the game.

Timmons finally suited up for a game since 2010, nice to have you back.

Foote is getting washed out. Sylvester has to step up.

Colon, Kugler better teach him how not to hold, or he should sit him for a game. Damn Willie, learn some better technique.

WRs, get the butter off of your gloves. Way too many dropped passes.

Mendy, nice to have you back, but I reserve judgment until his 3rd game.

At least we won.

CPanther95
10-07-2012, 09:53 PM
Timmons did great, but I'd like to see him finish his plays a little better.

Steeldude
10-08-2012, 12:20 AM
Yea I forgot, that is how Woodley is making the HOF, by beating TEs and rbs :lol:

No, he'll probably make the HOF because of gullible people thinking a sack is the ONLY indicator of a LB's success :lol: Worilds had a sack so he will be in the HOF too, right? :thumbsup:

zulater
10-08-2012, 05:31 AM
The Steelers committed nine penalties for 106 yards, including five in the first half. The most damaging was an illegal formation penalty on wide receiver Mike Wallace that erased a 31-yard run by Rashard Mendenhall. “Obviously, we weren’t really sharp early, particularly with some self-inflicted wounds,” Tomlin said. The fans voiced their displeasure with a cascade of boos when guard Willie Colon was hit with one of his three holding penalties (two were declined). “I have to cut that out,” Colon said. “I take all ownership. I’m hurting the team in that regard.”

Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2734540-85/steelers-eagles-yards-third-woodley-field-game-injury-philadelphia-quarter#ixzz28haFTi1M
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

By the way, anyone care to make the case that Mike Wallace is more important to this team than Antonio Brown today?

Besides Wallace having a severe case of the dropsies yesterday and Ben eventually abandoning him when it mattered.

The 31 yard run that was negated was a great show of contrast between the two players. While AB was making a terrific downfield block to help spring Mendenhall on the Steelers longest run from scrimmage to date ( though of course negated) Wallace has his head up his ass and can't even see fit to line up properly! :doh:

LLT
10-08-2012, 06:04 AM
Thumbs up on defense to Timmons and Worilds...and on offense to Brown and Mendenhall.

Thumbs down on defense to Lewis and Mundy who are both out of position waaaay to often....and to Colon and Wallace for obvious reasons.

Unsung hero goes to Butler who had 4 punts averaging 43.0 yards....and had a long of 57 today.

GBMelBlount
10-08-2012, 06:26 AM
Good game Ben & Mendy

Goats....refs....missed SEVERAL holds on our receivers.

This arguably cost us more than the holding penalties

zulater
10-08-2012, 07:52 AM
Heath Miller needs to be added to the list of hero's here. I know he didn't have a big game receiving, but 4 for 40 yards isn't awful. And had Ben not missed a wide open Heath on the right sideline you could have added another catch and most likely a touchdown to that total. But that's not why he's on my hero list. Simply put Heath was a beast all game blocking. He helped keep the Eagles defensive ends of Ben, and he also was great with his downfield blocking for the running game, and he also led several receivers out into the flat for nice gainers running behind him. Truly the most complete tight end in the game. I wouldn't trade him for anyone else who plays the position in the league. .

ALLD
10-08-2012, 04:11 PM
Susiham does his best Adam Vinateri impression.

Vintage Roethlisberger.
Comeback player of the year, Mendenhall.

steeldawg
10-08-2012, 05:00 PM
Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2734540-85/steelers-eagles-yards-third-woodley-field-game-injury-philadelphia-quarter#ixzz28haFTi1M
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

By the way, anyone care to make the case that Mike Wallace is more important to this team than Antonio Brown today?

Besides Wallace having a severe case of the dropsies yesterday and Ben eventually abandoning him when it mattered.

The 31 yard run that was negated was a great show of contrast between the two players. While AB was making a terrific downfield block to help spring Mendenhall on the Steelers longest run from scrimmage to date ( though of course negated) Wallace has his head up his ass and can't even see fit to line up properly! :doh:

Yes i would still make that arguement on TD's alone. Did he have a bad game yes he had 3 drops AB had 2 and one in the endzone for a td. Antonio Brown also had a pre snap false start penalty not knowing the snap count. If you ask me also I thought brown should of scored again when he caught that pass and tried to cut it back rather than out running the safety to the endzone.

86WARD
10-08-2012, 05:15 PM
Heroes - 34, 7, 83, 6, 92, 94

Zeroes - 74, 89's feet.

86WARD
10-08-2012, 05:26 PM
Ill take the defend Wallace side.

If you watched more than the ball and looked at more than just the stats, you'd see that Wallace's "drops" weren't really his fault. The one that was right in his hands was obviously his fault...

I laugh at the criticism he receives and he's not the one making all the money...

zulater
10-08-2012, 05:37 PM
Ill take the defend Wallace side.

If you watched more than the ball and looked at more than just the stats, you'd see that Wallace's "drops" weren't really his fault. The one that was right in his hands was obviously his fault...

I laugh at the criticism he receives and he's not the one making all the money...

I laugh at anyone who tries to defend the "effort" Wallace put forth on that jump ball into the end zone Ben threw up on the 4th and 10 play. Wallace let's shit get into his head and then he disappears's. Yesterday I think those uncalled defensive holds against Mike put him into a sulk and bye bye Mikey.

Last thing. When it's crunch time the ball goes AB's way a hellava lot more than it goes 17's way.

steeldawg
10-08-2012, 06:55 PM
I laugh at anyone who tries to defend the "effort" Wallace put forth on that jump ball into the end zone Ben threw up on the 4th and 10 play. Wallace let's shit get into his head and then he disappears's. Yesterday I think those uncalled defensive holds against Mike put him into a sulk and bye bye Mikey.

Last thing. When it's crunch time the ball goes AB's way a hellava lot more than it goes 17's way.

Actually when its crunch time and we need points the ball is going to wallace. When its a long field AB benifits from single coverage but in the redzone on a short field AB is non exsistent, everyone knows in the redzone the ball is going to heath or wallace.

zulater
10-08-2012, 06:57 PM
Actually when its crunch time and we need points the ball is going to wallace. When its a long field AB benifits from single coverage but in the redzone on a short field AB is non exsistent, everyone knows in the redzone the ball is going to heath or wallace.

You keep believing that if you want, but the Eagles covered Wallace with one man most of the day yesterday, and it wasn't even their best cb. They saved him for Brown. And Brown still got more targets and catches.

zulater
10-08-2012, 07:00 PM
The Eagles weren’t concerned with Steelers wide receiver Mike Wallace’s ability to run anything other than a vertical route. Philadelphia put cornerback Dominque Rodgers-Cromartie on Wallace and had Asomugha take Antonio Brown. “We knew (Brown) was their guy who runs every single route that they have,” Asomugha said. “Seventeen was more of a straight down the field guy.” Wallace finished with 17 yards on two catches — his fewest this season. Brown had seven catches for 86 yards.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2734560-85/eagles-game-steelers-yards-zone-asomugha-mccoy-brown-cole-held#ixzz28hcEYueq

steeldawg
10-08-2012, 07:00 PM
You keep believing that if you want, but the Eagles covered Wallace with one man most of the day yesterday, and it wasn't even their best cb. They saved him for Brown. And Brown still got more targets and catches.

Whats to believe? The numbers are right there wallace scores td's brown does not.

zulater
10-08-2012, 07:08 PM
By the way. I have nothing against Wallace. When he's fully engaged he's a very good player. But sometimes he mentally checks out. That needs to stop.

Also I don't think he's elite. He's got elite speed, but he doesn't high point the ball in traffic like the great ones do. I'd say his hands are quite ordinary.

I think Antonio Brown is a more intergral part of the Steelers offense than Wallace. I think the Steelers beleive that to be the case as well.

zulater
10-08-2012, 07:13 PM
Whats to believe? The numbers are right there wallace scores td's brown does not.

At the end of the season there will be little difference.

Wallace had a year's head start and was drafted 3 rounds earliar than Brown. Brown has had to dig his way up from the bottom.

Now they're on even terms.

Yeah Wallace has 3 TD's to 1 for Brown so far this year. But Brown leads Wallace in every other single category. And he blocks better too. Just like Hines Ward outlasted and thrived after Burress and Holmes left, so will Brown do the same if and when Wallace departs via free agency next year or the year after.

Of course you probably thought Burress was better than Ward as well.

Craic
10-08-2012, 07:19 PM
Thumbs up on defense to Timmons and Worilds...and on offense to Brown and Mendenhall.

Thumbs down on defense to Lewis and Mundy who are both out of position waaaay to often....and to Colon and Wallace for obvious reasons.

Unsung hero goes to Butler who had 4 punts averaging 43.0 yards....and had a long of 57 today.

And that actually includes the fact that a couple times, he was having to hold back back because he was too close to the endzone. Or wait . . . weren't those all penalized, and he had to re-kick? There were so many penalties yesterday I don't remember!

Isn't it strange that we're happy with our punter and kicker, not complaining at all about Ben or our run game, and befuddled by our defense (though they did show a lot more yesterday in comparison).

steeldawg
10-08-2012, 07:32 PM
No not at all wards numbers were better than burress's he had the better career. Really a blocking wideout in this offense is more valuable than a reciever that scores? If wallace leaves to free agency it will be the worst thing for AB, because if hes got sanders on the other side he can expect to get bottled up. Im not saying brown cant play he is obviously very good but i think wallaces value and impact he has on field even when hes not getting the ball is invaluable to the steelers.

Butch
10-08-2012, 07:51 PM
No not at all wards numbers were better than burress's he had the better career. Really a blocking wideout in this offense is more valuable than a reciever that scores? If wallace leaves to free agency it will be the worst thing for AB, because if hes got sanders on the other side he can expect to get bottled up. Im not saying brown cant play he is obviously very good but i think wallaces value and impact he has on field even when hes not getting the ball is invaluable to the steelers.

I aint sayin' that I don't want Wallace, but I don't want to see us overpay to keep him here. The WR position is probably the most saturated position in the NFL. Yes it would be great to have a larry fitz or a megatron, but having 3 very good WR's would be better than one Superstar. Randy Moss, T.O., Fitz and Megatron combined have zero Superbowl rings. We have greater positions of need right now.

86WARD
10-08-2012, 07:59 PM
lol...

Wallace was blatantly held twice. One of which would have been a TD and that 4th down heave that Wallace didn't put an effort forth. Held by Asomugha...who apparently wasn't on Wallace at all yesterday. One drop yesterday. What about the ball Ben overthrew that most likely with Wallace's speed would've been a TD had the ball been thrown accurately...

Brown in turn had two dropsies yesterday. One that would've been a guaranteed TD. The other probably could've been a TD as well.

BTW - Wallace's Catch Rate before Sunday was a 77%. Brown's...64%. Brown fumbled twice. Wallace once.

I'm not trying to say one is better than the other and I love Brown, but the "criticism" of Wallace and "praise" of Brown is just too funny. Wallace will continue getting the shit because he held out, but it's fine when Hines did it.

SteelGhost
10-08-2012, 08:37 PM
Good game Ben & Mendy

Goats....refs....missed SEVERAL holds on our receivers.

This arguably cost us more than the holding penalties

The officiating was PUTRID to say the least, Rodgers-Cromartie was making some PI with passion :doh:

Heroes : Mendenhall, Big Ben, Suisham, Butler, Timmons and Deebo.
Zeroes : Willie "The Holding Machine" Colon, Clark

zulater
10-09-2012, 01:55 AM
lol...

Wallace was blatantly held twice. One of which would have been a TD and that 4th down heave that Wallace didn't put an effort forth. Held by Asomugha...who apparently wasn't on Wallace at all yesterday. One drop yesterday. What about the ball Ben overthrew that most likely with Wallace's speed would've been a TD had the ball been thrown accurately...

Brown in turn had two dropsies yesterday. One that would've been a guaranteed TD. The other probably could've been a TD as well.

BTW - Wallace's Catch Rate before Sunday was a 77%. Brown's...64%. Brown fumbled twice. Wallace once.

I'm not trying to say one is better than the other and I love Brown, but the "criticism" of Wallace and "praise" of Brown is just too funny. Wallace will continue getting the shit because he held out, but it's fine when Hines did it.

Wallace had 3 drops. And never left his feet in the end zone on Ben's jump ball. Yeah he was interfered with, but that still doesn't excuse his complete lack of effort on that play. Had he made an attempt to go vertical there he possibly would have been able to sell PI to the ref.

And Asomugha was mostly on Brown. Yeah obviously different formations and situations will sometimes change the coverage, but for the most part the Eagles deemed Brown the guy they most needed to stop with their top corner.


And I never claimed Wallace wasn't blatantly held on a couple plays where it wasn't called. That was in fact part of my point. When Wallace gets hit with some adversity early in a game it's been known to get to him. And his game falls off as a result thereafter.

How many catches did Wallace have in the last 55 minutes again? How many yards?

Brown?

Yeah, Wallace clearly outplayed Brown! :doh:

zulater
10-09-2012, 01:58 AM
I aint sayin' that I don't want Wallace, but I don't want to see us overpay to keep him here. The WR position is probably the most saturated position in the NFL. Yes it would be great to have a larry fitz or a megatron, but having 3 very good WR's would be better than one Superstar. Randy Moss, T.O., Fitz and Megatron combined have zero Superbowl rings. We have greater positions of need right now.

Basically that's my point too. Also Ben took the Steelers to and won a Super Bowl with Cedric Wilson as a starting WR, so to think everything fades to black if and when Wallace departs the team via free agency is laughable.

Steeldude
10-09-2012, 03:50 AM
Wallace had 3 drops. And never left his feet in the end zone on Ben's jump ball.

Wallace's poor fundamentals again. It seems he can only cradle-catch. To think that an NFL WR wanting $11,000,000 can't extend his hands toward the ball is mind-boggling

Butch
10-09-2012, 09:59 AM
So we should compare Wallace to Hines in terms of holdouts??? Ok When Hines held out he was a seasoned veteran who was known for a) making tough catches in traffic b) a great blocking back c) well on his way to becoming a Steeler Legend d) ended his hold out early in order to put the team 1st and showing confidence that a deal would get done. When Wallace held out it was a) he was at the end of his 1st contract, b) still some questions about his abilities, c) held out the entire pre-season putting himself not the team 1st and showing zero confidence that a deal would get done.

IMHO the only real comparison of the 2 is that they are WR's for the Steelers and they did hold out over a contract. Other than that yeah I was fine with Hines and not so much with Wallace for the reasons I have stated above. I also know that while stats are pretty they don't tell the whole story and can be very misleading.

NCSteeler
10-09-2012, 10:07 AM
If we had lost this is what would be pissing me off right now...

Big Ben missing a wide open Heath Miller on the right sideline on a play that at the very least would have given us first and goal inside the 10, but more likely would have resulted in another Heath Miller touchdown catch. You could tell Ben was wishing he had that one back as soon as the play was dead. :frusty:

Antonio Brown letting a touchdown pass slide right threw his hands on the Steelers last possession of the 1st half. Antonio had a great game overall. But that was a play he could have and should have made that would have put us in a much better situation going into the locker room.

Cotchery tripping over his own damn feet the very next play! I know it was bad luck, and I'm not going to hold it against Cotch. But damn man . Just keep your left foot out of your right foot's way and you get the damn TD!

Mike Wallace not even trying for the ball on a 4th down desperation heave from Ben into the end zone.:mad2: He most likely wasn't going to make the play anyway, but the complete lack of effort there was galling! He could have possibly drawn a flag had he at least gone vertical there!

Mike Wallace's overall game. Multiple drops, lack of effort. And he can't even line up in the right place. Cost us a nice run just because he didn't know where he was supposed to line the fuck up!!! :frusty:

Keenan Lewis not being able to wrap up and tackle on a 4th down play where he met Shady McCoy in the backfield! :yell: Inexcusable! If he makes that play the Steelers start a possession inside the Eagles 35 and likely end the game right there!

Willie "The hook" Colon. How many holds will he draw this year? What's the all time Steeler record? Might be an interesting race? :doh:

Ryan Clark for going helmet to helmet and invoking a 15 yarder on a play that was for all intent purposes already dead! Mundy's hit I have no problem with. Kid was playing the game the way it's supposed to be, and just got unlucky on where his and the receiver's helmet's met. If Clark gets suspended, particularly with Troy likely to miss multiple games. where the fuck does that leave us?! Stupid play Ryan! :frusty:

But we won, so I'm happy. So it's ok for today! :thumbsup:

I honestly thought the player was no longer defenseless with makes it perfectly legal, which I'm pretty sure is what Clark was talking to the ref about. I suppose all those pretty pink towels made it look like flag football. no way Mundy should have got a flag, somewhere a physics lesson must be learned .

steeldawg
10-09-2012, 04:58 PM
I dont understand the whole we are not gonna pay wallace arguement? We have a 100 million dollar qb but we are not willing to pay wide receivers, it makes no sense, its like giving our rb 50 million and then putting a bunch of scrubs on the o-line and expecting production. We invested in the qb now we invest in the talent at receiver, it only makes sense.

Steeldude
10-09-2012, 06:03 PM
I dont understand the whole we are not gonna pay wallace arguement? We have a 100 million dollar qb but we are not willing to pay wide receivers, it makes no sense, its like giving our rb 50 million and then putting a bunch of scrubs on the o-line and expecting production. We invested in the qb now we invest in the talent at receiver, it only makes sense.

It's called a salary cap and paying players what they are worth. Wallace is not a polished WR.

Your argument means the entire O-line should be paid millions upon millions of dollars too. Again, there is a cap.

Edman
10-09-2012, 06:17 PM
I'm tired of the excuses made for Wallace. The guy is too mentally soft. I don't care if the guy is fast, in the NFL having all the athletic talent in the world means nothing if your head isn't there. He's mentally checks out at the first sign of adversity and toughness.

I rewatched the final drive. Ben threw a perfect ball that went into Wallace's hands and he dropped it. That play could've killed our momentum and sealed 1-3 start right there.

Who shows up with a big 22-yard gain to keep the game-winning drive going? Antonio Brown, that's who. Brown had the dropsies himself, but he is a guy you want on your team. He never quits and Ben always looks his way with the game on the line. When was the last time Mike Wallace made a big time catch? Ever since his rookie year, Brown has done nothing but be clutch for the Steelers. He was the 2011 Team MVP for a reason.

fansince'76
10-09-2012, 06:21 PM
I'm tired of the excuses made for Wallace. The guy is too mentally soft. I don't care if the guy is fast, in the NFL having all the athletic talent in the world means nothing if your head isn't there. He's mentally checks out at the first sign of adversity and toughness.

I rewatched the final drive. Ben threw a perfect ball that went into Wallace's hands and he dropped it. That play could've killed our momentum and sealed 1-3 start right there.

Who shows up with a big 22-yard gain to keep the game-winning drive going? Antonio Brown, that's who. Brown had the dropsies himself, but he is a guy you want on your team. He never quits and Ben always looks his way with the game on the line. When was the last time Mike Wallace made a big time catch? Ever since his rookie year, Brown has done nothing but be clutch for the Steelers. He was the 2011 Team MVP for a reason.

Agreed. And this is his contract year. He better start lighting it up if he wants $11 million per.

Count Steeler
10-09-2012, 08:25 PM
It is amazing what can happen when an OLine doesn't get injuries and plays together for a string of games. Short of brilliant only because of the penalties, the OLine performed quite admirably, especially considering that the Eagles tore us up 3 years ago. And we still have our 1st and 2nd round draft picks to come around. Our offensive future is bright.

Now of course, the defense needs some help.

86WARD
10-09-2012, 09:51 PM
Wallace had 3 drops. And never left his feet in the end zone on Ben's jump ball. Yeah he was interfered with, but that still doesn't excuse his complete lack of effort on that play. Had he made an attempt to go vertical there he possibly would have been able to sell PI to the ref.

And Asomugha was mostly on Brown. Yeah obviously different formations and situations will sometimes change the coverage, but for the most part the Eagles deemed Brown the guy they most needed to stop with their top corner.


And I never claimed Wallace wasn't blatantly held on a couple plays where it wasn't called. That was in fact part of my point. When Wallace gets hit with some adversity early in a game it's been known to get to him. And his game falls off as a result thereafter.

How many catches did Wallace have in the last 55 minutes again? How many yards?

Brown?

Yeah, Wallace clearly outplayed Brown! :doh:

No he didn't. He had one drop that hit him in his hands. The others he was interfered with and PI should've been called on each one. But just look at the raw numbers. That's what it's all about...lol.

Just wonder how people would feel about him had he not held out...too funny.

Edman
10-09-2012, 10:01 PM
lI'm not trying to say one is better than the other and I love Brown, but the "criticism" of Wallace and "praise" of Brown is just too funny. Wallace will continue getting the shit because he held out, but it's fine when Hines did it.

Wallace gets the crap because for a #1 receiver demanding top tier money, he doesn't play like a top-tier receiver. He's not the go-to guy in a big moment. He comes up small when we need him to be big, When the going gets tough, Wallace gets going...out of the game. He was interfered with? He has to fight through it and keep playing. Instead he quits.

When you want a deep bomb TD in the 2nd Quarter, Wallace is your man. On 3rd down with two minutes to go in a tight game and you need a momentum-changing play, Wallace is NOT your man.

When you have a guy who plays but only when he feels up to it, it's not the kind of guy you want as your #1 receiver. Wallace is gifted athlete and speed freak, but the rest of his game and especially his head is questionable.

zulater
10-10-2012, 12:28 AM
No he didn't. He had one drop that hit him in his hands. The others he was interfered with and PI should've been called on each one. But just look at the raw numbers. That's what it's all about...lol.

Just wonder how people would feel about him had he not held out...too funny.

He had 3 drops! Period. I don't give a fuck if he was slightly held, the damn ball hit's you in two hands you catch the son of a bitch.

And how I feel about him as a player has little to do with his hold out. I judge him by what I see on the field, and what I see on the field is a mixed bag. He is not a top 10 receiver in the league because he lacks consistency, and he doesn't have elite hands, nor does he rise to the moment in crunch time.

The only reason the hold out comes into play whatsoever is because of his obvious desire to be paid like an elite receiver means that is the standard of play he must meet if he expects to be paid accordingly. So far this season he's falling short of the mark.

steeldawg
10-10-2012, 05:49 AM
He had 3 drops! Period. I don't give a fuck if he was slightly held, the damn ball hit's you in two hands you catch the son of a bitch.

And how I feel about him as a player has little to do with his hold out. I judge him by what I see on the field, and what I see on the field is a mixed bag. He is not a top 10 receiver in the league because he lacks consistency, and he doesn't have elite hands, nor does he rise to the moment in crunch time.

The only reason the hold out comes into play whatsoever is because of his obvious desire to be paid like an elite receiver means that is the standard of play he must meet if he expects to be paid accordingly. So far this season he's falling short of the mark.

Browon had 2 drops!!! One for a TD!!! Almost every ranking i check has Mike Wallace as top ten receiver, including hines wards top ten ranking on nfl network. So what Hines Ward sees on the field is a top ten talent and what you see is not .......ya im going with HOF Hines Ward's assesment, because i think he knows something about playing wideout in this league. I will also point out again that the numbers Mike put up in his first 3 seasons were great, only 2 recievers have posted better numbers in ther first 3 seasons and thats jerry rice and randy moss. So Wallace had one bad game now hes falling short of the mark? the guy has 3 tds in 4 games, hes on pace for 12 tds this season thats pretty damn good!

zulater
10-10-2012, 06:05 AM
Browon had 2 drops!!! One for a TD!!! Almost every ranking i check has Mike Wallace as top ten receiver, including hines wards top ten ranking on nfl network. So what Hines Ward sees on the field is a top ten talent and what you see is not .......ya im going with HOF Hines Ward's assesment, because i think he knows something about playing wideout in this league. I will also point out again that the numbers Mike put up in his first 3 seasons were great, only 2 recievers have posted better numbers in ther first 3 seasons and thats jerry rice and randy moss. So Wallace had one bad game now hes falling short of the mark? the guy has 3 tds in 4 games, hes on pace for 12 tds this season thats pretty damn good!

Brown also caught 7 passes as opposed to 2. So that offsets his drops more than Wallace.

Look I don't think any of us are saying Wallace doesn't have exceptional talent. When he's fully engaged he may be a top ten receiver. But I've seen it more than once where a guy will get under his skin early in the game, and he mentally checks out from that point on.

In order to really be considered elite, he has to be more consistent.

By the way in Wallace's last 16 games that counted ( playoffs included) his stats read like this. 63 -934 -8. Good, but nowhere close to elite. and the last I checked he wants to be paid a helluval lot more than good.

zulater
10-10-2012, 06:13 AM
Now here's Antonio Brown's last 16 games ( including playoffs) 82- 1258- 3. Keep in mind that Antonio wasn't even the starter for 11 of those games. ( as a courtesy to Hines Ward)

Again Mike Wallace 63- 934- 8

AB 82 -1258 -3.

So please, stop with this shit that Wallace is our top gun. He's not.

GBMelBlount
10-10-2012, 06:23 AM
Unsung hero goes to Butler who had 4 punts averaging 43.0 yards....and had a long of 57 today.

Ya, but if you take away his long punts. :chuckle:

GBMelBlount
10-10-2012, 06:41 AM
Now here's Antonio Brown's last 16 games ( including playoffs) 82- 1258- 3. Keep in mind that Antonio wasn't even the starter for 11 of those games. ( as a courtesy to Hines Ward)

Again Mike Wallace 63- 934- 8

AB 82 -1258 -3.

So please, stop with this shit that Wallace is our top gun. He's not.

Thanks for the stats Zu.

They could both arguably be #1 receivers imo.

I consider us fortunate to even be able to have a legitimate argument like this.

If I had to pick one I would take Brown but that is just me.

We are fortunate because with both of them (and Sanders) we have arguably the best trio of receivers in the nfl.

86WARD
10-10-2012, 07:53 AM
Sorry Zu. You are incorrect. One drop. Look beyond the raw stats.

Wallace gets shit on. Wallace requested "Number One Money." He's "not performing" as a number one. Fuck him for requesting number one money!!!

Brown gets praised. Brown gets paid "Number One Money." He's "not performing" as a number one. Brown is soooooooo much better than Wallace!!!

But lets look at the stat sheets, oh wait, their numbers are almost identical for argument sake...lol.

Edman
10-10-2012, 08:57 AM
Sorry Zu. You are incorrect. One drop. Look beyond the raw stats.

Wallace gets shit on. Wallace requested "Number One Money." He's "not performing" as a number one. Fuck him for requesting number one money!!!

Brown gets praised. Brown gets paid "Number One Money." He's "not performing" as a number one. Brown is soooooooo much better than Wallace!!!

But lets look at the stat sheets, oh wait, their numbers are almost identical for argument sake...lol.

It wasn't Brown who had 2 catches for 17 yards or dropped a perfectly thrown pass in his hands on the game winning drive.

It wasn't Brown who demanded Fitzgerald-type money or held out.

For a guy who supposedly wants bigtime money, Wallace never plays big time in big moments. So far the best Defense for Wallace this game was "The other players made mistakes too!" Yes they did, but Brown made up for his drops with a big chain moving catch on the very same drive our "bigtime" WR dropped a perfectly thrown ball. Brown was our most productive receiver Sunday. 7 catches for 86 yards. Even with the drops, Brown never quit. Wallace did.

Tons of excuses are made for Wallace, blaming everything else for his disappearing acts except himself. He's drawing double coverage, He's being interfered with, the planets aren't aligned properly, I heard a real doozy on another board that Wallace is getting tired of being under/over thrown and shifted the blame on Ben instead!

Edman
10-10-2012, 09:35 AM
Basically that's my point too. Also Ben took the Steelers to and won a Super Bowl with Cedric Wilson as a starting WR, so to think everything fades to black if and when Wallace departs the team via free agency is laughable.


When you have an Elite QB, it doesn't matter who you have out there at WR. Ben is not Joe Flacco. He's not a guy who needs annual FA acquisitions and halfway-decent/Elite talent around him to be successful.

Ben advanced to three SB's with no superstars at WR. The only guy who was consistent was Hines Ward. Outside of him, we've had Cedrick Wilson, Antwaan Randle El, Nate Washington, Santonio Holmes and various rookies, including Antonio Brown and Manny Sanders. None of these guys are superstars. Brown is on his way to being the next "man" in Pittsburgh, but he's the only one so far.

Butch
10-10-2012, 09:41 AM
LOL Someone should change this thread to the Mike Wallace love or leave him???

I really don't mind all the talk just think it's funny that's all.

AS for Butler isn't it nice to have a reliable punter. He may not be Mitch Berger but at least he's consistent and not oft injured.

zulater
10-10-2012, 10:04 AM
Sorry Zu. You are incorrect. One drop. Look beyond the raw stats.

Wallace gets shit on. Wallace requested "Number One Money." He's "not performing" as a number one. Fuck him for requesting number one money!!!

Brown gets praised. Brown gets paid "Number One Money." He's "not performing" as a number one. Brown is soooooooo much better than Wallace!!!

But lets look at the stat sheets, oh wait, their numbers are almost identical for argument sake...lol.

3 drops. If the ball hits you in the hands and you don't catch it it's a drop.

And their stats aren't even close to identical in the last 16 meaningfull Steeler games. Brown has a huge edge in yards, first downs, and catches. Plus he's a much better blocker. Oh yeah, and he's an elite punt returner. Speaking of which, right there should tell you something. Here's Wallace, fastest man on the team, arguably the fastest man in the AFC, and the Steelers have never had him return kicks. And don't give me this shit he's too valuable as a receiver. That never stopped them with Santonio Holmes did it. Wallace is straight line fast. But that only gets you so far in a league full of elite athletes. He's not an instinctual runner like Brown and Holmes.

Look no one's saying the guy is a liability. All we're saying is Brown is a better overall player, and Wallace needs to either play up to the contract he wants or re access his demands. And if he doesn't he'll be playing for another team next season or the one after that. And life will go on in Pittsburgh just fine if and when that day arrives. He's not irreplacable. Not even close.

86WARD
10-10-2012, 10:36 AM
Keep spinning the numbers. Keep watching ONLY the ball. And ALL your arguments will be valid!!! Funny how this went from the Eagles game to the last 16. Why not compare career numbers now?

So now Holmes is better cause he can return punts? Joshua Cribbs can return punts. Maybe trade him for Wallace? That's one of the weakest arguments I have ever seen...even if this was a whose the better WR argument, its a horrible...lol. I'd expect more from you than that.

Anyway...continue bashing Wallace and praising Brown. Remember Brown is the one getting paid and performing "below" his contract.

Butch
10-10-2012, 11:03 AM
IMHO Santonio was clutch when he was with us. I know he's a diva, dropped passes and has since leaving us has disappeared, but him and Ben were one helluva combination. Now don't think I'm advocating to get Santonio back, he's way to full of himself to be a Steeler, but when he was here I loved watching him play.

I agree with Zulater there are to many WR's to get hung up on one who isn't showing a willingness to go all out to get to the ball. Yes he was interfered with but you can't count on the flag you have to fight to make the catch. At least make the attempt you never know what might happen.

BnG_Hevn
10-10-2012, 12:17 PM
At the end of the season there will be little difference.

Wallace had a year's head start and was drafted 3 rounds earliar than Brown. Brown has had to dig his way up from the bottom.

Now they're on even terms.

Yeah Wallace has 3 TD's to 1 for Brown so far this year. But Brown leads Wallace in every other single category. And he blocks better too. Just like Hines Ward outlasted and thrived after Burress and Holmes left, so will Brown do the same if and when Wallace departs via free agency next year or the year after.

Of course you probably thought Burress was better than Ward as well.

Would you rather have a WR who catches a TD each game or a WR who catches balls for 5 first downs each game?

For my dollar, I'd take the overall production over the highlights.

zulater
10-10-2012, 12:46 PM
Keep spinning the numbers. Keep watching ONLY the ball. And ALL your arguments will be valid!!! Funny how this went from the Eagles game to the last 16. Why not compare career numbers now? .

What "now" are you talking about? This last game Wallace caught all of 2 passes for 17 yards. The season? Brown has him beat there too. Last 16 games? Once again much in favor of Antonio.

With all due respect, what the hell is your point?

If it's all about TD catches, Burress had the same amount that Wallace had in 2011, and he's currently unemployed. So I guess Td catches don't trump everything after all.


So now Holmes is better cause he can return punts? Joshua Cribbs can return punts. Maybe trade him for Wallace?

Talk about your all time straw horse arguemtns. :lol: So Antonio Brown is Josh Cribbs in this argument? :doh: Not really worth me responding to. :coffee:



That's one of the weakest arguments I have ever seen...even if this was a whose the better WR argument, its a horrible...lol. I'd expect more from you than that.

ditto.


Anyway...continue bashing Wallace and praising Brown. Remember Brown is the one getting paid and performing "below" his contract.

Really? Anyone else out there want to sign on to that premise? Antonio Brown isn't performing up to his contract?

Maybe we should start a new thread and put that up as poll question? :chuckle:

Wow!

polamalubeast
10-10-2012, 12:49 PM
Anyway...continue bashing Wallace and praising Brown. Remember Brown is the one getting paid and performing "below" his contract.


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/001/582/picard-facepalm.jpg?1240934151

zulater
10-10-2012, 12:51 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/001/582/picard-facepalm.jpg?1240934151

Priceless! :heh:

zulater
10-10-2012, 02:22 PM
Anyway...continue bashing Wallace and praising Brown. Remember Brown is the one getting paid and performing "below" his contract.

At the risk of beating a dead horse.

Based on his first 4 games this season Antonio Brown projects to catch 100 passes for 1,304, 4 TD's and 72 first downs.

Mike Wallace's career high for catches is 72, 1,257 for yards, and 54 first downs.

Also Antonio Brown isn't being paid a top 15 receivers salary, so how the hell is he underperforming his contract again?

zulater
10-10-2012, 02:39 PM
For anyone who listed Ryan Clark as a zero. He used bad judgement on one play. Outside of that he was far and away our best defensive back. Honestly he might be the most underrated safety in football. He's really that good and that important to this team. And oh yeah he caused the red zone fumble of Mike Vick. So not only is he not a zero, he was in fact a hero!

86WARD
10-10-2012, 06:05 PM
What "now" are you talking about? This last game Wallace caught all of 2 passes for 17 yards. The season? Brown has him beat there too. Last 16 games? Once again much in favor of Antonio.

With all due respect, what the hell is your point?

If it's all about TD catches, Burress had the same amount that Wallace had in 2011, and he's currently unemployed. So I guess Td catches don't trump everything after all.



Talk about your all time straw horse arguemtns. :lol: So Antonio Brown is Josh Cribbs in this argument? :doh: Not really worth me responding to. :coffee:




ditto.



Really? Anyone else out there want to sign on to that premise? Antonio Brown isn't performing up to his contract?

Maybe we should start a new thread and put that up as poll question? :chuckle:

Wow!

Actually when you compare this seasons numbers, they are almost identical. Average per reception differs by very little. Wallace has more TDs, Brown more receptions and yards...but not enough to boast about. That's the point. Bash Wallace all you want, but he's comparable to Brown in every category. Wallace isn't performing at number one money, but his counterpart in Brown is?!? Lol...okay.

Thanks for realizing your silly kick return argument was just that...silly. Of course you don't have a comment about that...because you know it's a reach.

Of course people will jump on the Brown bandwagon. He can do no wrong...especially by the Wallace Critics. Well...except "under perform" his contract...seeing that Wallace hasn't "earned" that kind of money and his numbers this year are similar to Browns.

You can criticize Wallace all you want and continue to say how Brown is sooooo much better. But you will never know the true answer until Wallace is gone and Brown has to perform without the threat of Wallace on the other side. We've seen what Wallace can do without Brown, but we really haven't seen it vice versa.

86WARD
10-10-2012, 06:10 PM
At the risk of beating a dead horse.

Based on his first 4 games this season Antonio Brown projects to catch 100 passes for 1,304, 4 TD's and 72 first downs.

Mike Wallace's career high for catches is 72, 1,257 for yards, and 54 first downs.

Also Antonio Brown isn't being paid a top 15 receivers salary, so how the hell is he underperforming his contract again?

Who is the one making the "big money?" Who had two drops, one for a TD against the Eagles? Yet Wallace gets all the criticism for his one drop...lol. Funny how you left out Wallace's project TDs there...real funny...

steelers_switzerland
10-10-2012, 06:12 PM
Who is the one making the "big money?" Who had two drops, one for a TD against the Eagles? Yet Wallace gets all the criticism for his one drop...lol. Funny how you left out Wallace's project TDs there...real funny...

this.

Steeldude
10-10-2012, 06:19 PM
Who is the one making the "big money?" Who had two drops, one for a TD against the Eagles? Yet Wallace gets all the criticism for his one drop...lol. Funny how you left out Wallace's project TDs there...real funny...

It appears Wallace can only cradle-catch the football. Do you think that's worth $11,000,000 a season? Wallace is seen giving up on plays ala Holmes/Burress. Is that worth $11,000,000 a season?

Cuts will have to be made to accommodate Wallace's absurd request. Who do you suggest the Steelers cut?

polamalubeast
10-10-2012, 06:30 PM
Yes this is Brown who had the big contract, but Wallace has made a holdout .....

But seriously, I'm tired of the debate Brown vs Wallace, they are in the same team and I like both WR

Count Steeler
10-10-2012, 06:33 PM
Brown and Wallace are better together than apart. The last game they both had the dropsies. Let's hope that was just a passing fad.

86WARD
10-10-2012, 06:33 PM
Yes this is Brown who had the big contract, but Wallace has made a holdout .....

And that's part of the point and reason people "hate" on Wallace.


But seriously, I'm tired of the debate Brown vs Wallace, they are in the same team and I like both WR

Agree. Love them both and each is better with the other across from them...doesn't hurt that Manny and Heath are in between!!

steelers_switzerland
10-10-2012, 06:35 PM
1) no cuts needed, look at the cap numbers for 2013! 2) well i would cut big snack for example if necessary and 3) wallace made enough great catches, but "fans" tend to forget when a player has some down games. brown is on pace for 4 td's this year. wallace has 3 already. enough said. mike is clutch, bring's points and draws coverage. ab is the go to guy. wallace needs to get paid.

zulater
10-10-2012, 07:11 PM
Actually when you compare this seasons numbers, they are almost identical. Average per reception differs by very little. Wallace has more TDs, Brown more receptions and yards...but not enough to boast about. That's the point. Bash Wallace all you want, but he's comparable to Brown in every category. Wallace isn't performing at number one money, but his counterpart in Brown is?!? Lol...okay.

Thanks for realizing your silly kick return argument was just that...silly. Of course you don't have a comment about that...because you know it's a reach.

Of course people will jump on the Brown bandwagon. He can do no wrong...especially by the Wallace Critics. Well...except "under perform" his contract...seeing that Wallace hasn't "earned" that kind of money and his numbers this year are similar to Browns.

You can criticize Wallace all you want and continue to say how Brown is sooooo much better. But you will never know the true answer until Wallace is gone and Brown has to perform without the threat of Wallace on the other side. We've seen what Wallace can do without Brown, but we really haven't seen it vice versa.

Yeah, basically we saw it with Hines Ward twice. First his numbers were going to dry up when Burress left. Instead he went on and won a SB MVP. Then he was supposed to dissapear again when Holmes left. And again he ends up in a SB.

And I'll wager you a signature bet that at the end of this season Brown's touchdowns are within 2 of Wallace's.

You discount that Brown had to dig his way up from the obscurity of being a 6th round draft pick and didn't get steady repetions until late into last season. It's only now that they've come to be on even terms in relation to offensive plays. So yeah Wallace got off to a good start touchdown wise, but chances are he wont sustain it, and that they'll level out as far as touchdown opportunites go as the season progresses.

zulater
10-10-2012, 07:19 PM
1) no cuts needed, look at the cap numbers for 2013! 2) well i would cut big snack for example if necessary and 3) wallace made enough great catches, but "fans" tend to forget when a player has some down games. brown is on pace for 4 td's this year. wallace has 3 already. enough said. mike is clutch, bring's points and draws coverage. ab is the go to guy. wallace needs to get paid.

They're not going to pay Wallace 11 million per unless he starts playing like an elite receiver. He's been very good at times. But never elite. If he can't accept the reality of his limitations in the way of settling for a reasonable contract then the Steelers will move on without him regardless of whether they can fit his contract into their cap space or not. They don't overpay!

And again the Steelers advanced to and won a Super Bowl with Cedric Wilson as a starting receiver. Life will go on with or without Wallace for the Steelers.

Look we all hope he stays. But judging by the way he handled things this summer that's a relative long shot.

So unlike you either way I'm fine. He stays that's great. He goes, the Steelers will go on, and so will Antonio Brown.

zulater
10-10-2012, 07:23 PM
And that's part of the point and reason people "hate" on Wallace.

No one hates him. Some of us just have a different sense of his relative worth. If you can't figure out that's what this is about, then you're just not paying attention.

No one here ever wants a Steeler to play poorly.

If Wallace plays better than my expectations that's great by me.

zulater
10-10-2012, 07:28 PM
Who is the one making the "big money?" Who had two drops, one for a TD against the Eagles? Yet Wallace gets all the criticism for his one drop...lol. Funny how you left out Wallace's project TDs there...real funny...

One drop? Really? I saw the game. I find 3, so do most people. So do the Steelers coaches. So does Mike Wallace.

Regardless he had two catches for 17 yards. If you think he had as good or a better game than Antonio Brown you're barking mad.

zulater
10-10-2012, 07:30 PM
By the way, watching the game on NFL rewind. Wallace has been singled covered every play I've seen so far.

86WARD
10-10-2012, 07:51 PM
One drop? Really? I saw the game. I find 3, so do most people. So do the Steelers coaches. So does Mike Wallace.

Regardless he had two catches for 17 yards. If you think he had as good or a better game than Antonio Brown you're barking mad.

I never said he had as good a game as Brown. People shitting on Wallace is unwarranted...

Glad you are rewatching. Maybe you'll see that one "drop" was a crossing route where he was held by a LB. Look for Ben to throw his hand up requesting a flag. DRC held him on the goal line slant. Ben overthrew Wallace on what most likely would've been a TD and then there was the desperation heave on 4th down in the end zone where he was mugged by Asomugha (who by the way hasn't been playing like what you call the number one CB on the Eagles - 99.1 passer rating against.) DRC has been better this year. Take your eyes off the ball.

It's hard to see past it though when you want to look criticize him.

steelers_switzerland
10-10-2012, 08:08 PM
It's hard to see past it though when you want to look criticize him.

so true!

and comparing to the SB season where we had a defense (and a running game) doesn't really work. different story.

but yeah, haters gonna hate i guess and we'll remember you when mike has 10 td's at the end of the season (and same with mendy when he still averages more than 4y per carry and still is our only back who can bring 20+y runs)

zulater
10-10-2012, 08:14 PM
so true!

and comparing to the SB season where we had a defense (and a running game) doesn't really work. different story.

but yeah, haters gonna hate i guess and we'll remember you when mike has 10 td's at the end of the season (and same with mendy when he still averages more than 4y per carry and still is our only back who can bring 20+y runs)

And idiots are going to be stupid. :coffee:

zulater
10-10-2012, 08:17 PM
I never said he had as good a game as Brown. People shitting on Wallace is unwarranted...

Glad you are rewatching. Maybe you'll see that one "drop" was a crossing route where he was held by a LB.

Look for Ben to throw his hand up requesting a flag. DRC held him on the goal line slant. Ben overthrew Wallace on what most likely would've been a TD and then there was the desperation heave on 4th down in the end zone where he was mugged by Asomugha (who by the way hasn't been playing like what you call the number one CB on the Eagles - 99.1 passer rating against.) DRC has been better this year. Take your eyes off the ball.

It's hard to see past it though when you want to look criticize him.

I watch all over the field. And Brown had a better game and has been better for the season to date.

Hey I hope Wallace lives up to your dreams. It will only help the Steelers.

86WARD
10-10-2012, 08:32 PM
Sunday wasn't a dream son. Was reality.

zulater
10-10-2012, 08:33 PM
Sunday wasn't a dream son. Was reality.

I'm not your son. Don't go there again.

GBMelBlount
10-10-2012, 09:29 PM
Zu, I am a huge Brown fan but I'd like to know if you feel Wallace is a top 15 receiver in the nfl?

zulater
10-10-2012, 09:37 PM
Zu, I am a huge Brown fan but I'd like to know if you feel Wallace is a top 15 receiver in the nfl?

Somewhere in the area of 12-20 would be my guess without going through the names and listing everyone off.

GBMelBlount
10-10-2012, 09:49 PM
Somewhere in the area of 12-20 would be my guess without going through the names and listing everyone off.

That is EXACTLY what I think too.

I guess my point is that while Brown is my favorite Steeler, the degree to which he is better or not, is almost splitting hairs to me.

I am not sure it can really be proven one way or the other at this point.

We are incredibly fortunate as Steelers fans to be able to argue about this.

That's all.

zulater
10-11-2012, 05:29 AM
That is EXACTLY what I think too.

I guess my point is that while Brown is my favorite Steeler, the degree to which he is better or not, is almost splitting hairs to me.

I am not sure it can really be proven one way or the other at this point.

We are incredibly fortunate as Steelers fans to be able to argue about this.


That's all.

This whole notion that I "hate" Wallace is ridiculous. In fact being called a "hater" comes across to me as if you're saying I'm a moron and not applying critical analysis to my position's and critique's. I'm not saying I'm always right, but when someone calls me a "hater" they're completely off base.

I'd like nothing more than for Wallace to go out and catch 10 passes for 200 yards and 3 TD's every week. If he plays like a top 5 receiver I wont reserve praise for an instant.

But as of now I think Wallace is too inconsistent to be considered elite. And if going forward he continues to demand elite WR pay he'll end up out of Pittsburgh in a year or two, and I think the Steelers will survive just fine without him if and when it comes to that.

Specific to this thread, a thread that is meant to discuss the play of Steelers players in relation to their most recent game against the Eagles. I felt as if Wallace mentally checked out at halftime. Something that great players shouldn't do. Anyway right or wrong in that assesment Wallace played poorly and was most certainly closer to a zero than hero in this game.

Conversly despite his drop ( if you're going to excuse Wallace's first quarter drop then Brown's first so called drop also needs to be excused) I found Antonio Brown's play to be worthy of "hero" status. He made big plays that led to Steeler scores throughout the game. Without his strong performance we don't win that game.

One last point on Wallace's potential future departure and what impact it may have and then I'm walking away from this conversation for this game.

Anyway to the point I made that the Steelers won a Super Bowl with Cedric Wilson starting at wr, which was rebutted with the Steelers won that SB with a dominating defense, running game and O-line. Therefore the juxtopisition being that it wouldn't work with the current team.

Disagree. While there's some validity in that point, Ben Roethlisberger is about 5x better now than he was then, which basically evens the scales.

zulater
10-11-2012, 05:51 AM
The whole offensive line played well. But I think Ramon Foster deserves special praise. Here's a guy the Steelers tried to replace, ( not without reason) and I'd say right now he's providing the Steelers their best overall play at right guard in a decade. I'm been rewatching the game on NFL rewind and they have a 10 second button, which you can use to replay the same play over and over. I often use this feature to hone on each individual player on various plays to see what went right or what went wrong. Well Ramon was just dominatiing his guy most every play. If you want to know the reason Ben wasn't sacked it was because of Pouncey, Foster, and Colon. The Eagles often got good pressure on the edges, but every single time they did Ben was able to step up into the middle with impunity, and then go make a play. They also did a nice job making space for Mendy.

86WARD
10-11-2012, 06:23 AM
I'm not your son. Don't go there again.

Lol...

Okay...***.

You "hate" on Wallace a lot. As evidence by this thread. You may not hate him, but you "hate" on him. Pointing out every and any flaw you can...that's hating ***.

86WARD
10-11-2012, 06:24 AM
That is EXACTLY what I think too.

I guess my point is that while Brown is my favorite Steeler, the degree to which he is better or not, is almost splitting hairs to me.

I am not sure it can really be proven one way or the other at this point.

We are incredibly fortunate as Steelers fans to be able to argue about this.

That's all.

Agree 100%!!!

zulater
10-11-2012, 06:25 AM
Lol...

Okay...son.

You "hate" on Wallace a lot. As evidence by this thread. You may not hate him, but you "hate" on him. Pointing out every and any flaw you can...that's hating son.



I haven't disparaged you personally. Calling me son is a huge insult. Something that if you do to another man's face you'll almost always end up in a fight over.

polamalubeast
10-11-2012, 06:28 AM
Zulater....edit your message,please!

polamalubeast
10-11-2012, 06:29 AM
same for Ward

zulater
10-11-2012, 06:30 AM
Zulater....edit your message,please!

Why? I'm not the one belittling him with the label of "son". If he edits I will.

zulater
10-11-2012, 06:45 AM
Let me just address the hater label one last time.

Two weeks ago I made a point to call out Antonio Brown for fumbling on two consecutive snaps, with the last fumble obviously adversly impacting the result of the game. I felt that it was inexcusable for him to fumble the very next time he caught the ball after he got away with fumbling into the end zone.

Do I hate Antonio?

Here's another example. I thought John Travolta was brilliant in Pulp Fiction. Battlestar Earth? Not so much! :heh:

I comment on what I see and perceive.

Right now to date this season; I think Antonio Brown is a better overall player than Mike Wallace.

Going forward I'll comment on them as they perform.

polamalubeast
10-11-2012, 06:50 AM
Why? I'm not the one belittling him with the label of "son". If he edits I will.

you are right

when I was writing my post, I had not seen the message insulting of 86ward!

zulater
10-11-2012, 06:54 AM
you are right

when I was writing my post, I had not seen the message insulting of 86ward!

I'm just about to step out the door. If a moderator wants to edit my comments, fair enough. But if they edit mine and don't edit his I'll never post on this board again.

86WARD
10-11-2012, 07:36 AM
I haven't disparaged you personally. Calling me son is a huge insult. Something that if you do to another man's face you'll almost always end up in a fight over.

You want discuss that's fine, you want to insult me, fuck you!

Son is a term of endearment where I come from. Kinda like buddy. Lol...hardly a disparaging or personal insult. I should've taken into consideration that some are more sensitive than others. I'll edit it.

86WARD
10-11-2012, 07:38 AM
The whole offensive line played well. But I think Ramon Foster deserves special praise. Here's a guy the Steelers tried to replace, ( not without reason) and I'd say right now he's providing the Steelers their best overall play at right guard in a decade. I'm been rewatching the game on NFL rewind and they have a 10 second button, which you can use to replay the same play over and over. I often use this feature to hone on each individual player on various plays to see what went right or what went wrong. Well Ramon was just dominatiing his guy most every play. If you want to know the reason Ben wasn't sacked it was because of Pouncey, Foster, and Colon. The Eagles often got good pressure on the edges, but every single time they did Ben was able to step up into the middle with impunity, and then go make a play. They also did a nice job making space for Mendy.

This I can agree with 100%! And I love the fact that Poucey is a clapping, yapping dickhead out there and backs it up every play!!! He brings an attitude to that line that we haven't seen in a long time!

X-Terminator
10-11-2012, 10:51 AM
Thank you 86WARD and zulater for editing your posts and working this out on your own. I appreciate that.

zulater
10-11-2012, 07:01 PM
Son is a term of endearment where I come from. Kinda like buddy. Lol...hardly a disparaging or personal insult. I should've taken into consideration that some are more sensitive than others. I'll edit it.

Where I'm from it's an insult. " I don't call you son because you shine, I call you son because you're mine." Outside of school, the military and my father ( who died in 1994) no one's called me son in 30+ years.