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View Full Version : this is so frustrating that the steelers are 1-2 despite the fact that.......



polamalubeast
09-24-2012, 08:13 AM
Ben Roethlisberger has probably his best start of the season in his career

Roethlisberger has 8 TD, 1 INT, 68% of his passes completed, 904 yards and a QB rating of 109.0

Also, the the steelers have only allowed one sack in 50 pass attempts yesterday.....If the defense would be average, the steelers would be 2-1!

Moose
09-24-2012, 08:24 AM
It's the ole' habit the Steeler's have--- playing DOWN to their opponent. The Steeler's could have scored easily ( I FEEL ) in the 1st and 2nd quarters. They kept letting the Raiders stick around and eventually there was a momemtum change and the Steeler's were playing catch-up. And again, it bit them in the butt. Just my opinion.

steel striker
09-24-2012, 08:58 AM
Yeah if you let a bad team hang around this is what happens.

Crow-Magnon
09-24-2012, 09:04 AM
Both Pittsburgh's and Baltimore's D has taken a step back. IMO, mostly due to the fact that the players who were stand-outs and HOF candidates are getting long in the tooth and either playing slower, or in some cases (Harrison, Suggs, etc) not at all.

Let's face it- we are all simply "used" to having a top-5 defense (if not #1 or #2) pretty much every year. Having a 7th or 9th ranked defense is a plus to many other team's fans, but a big step down for us.

NCSteeler
09-24-2012, 09:21 AM
Both Pittsburgh's and Baltimore's D has taken a step back. IMO, mostly due to the fact that the players who were stand-outs and HOF candidates are getting long in the tooth and either playing slower, or in some cases (Harrison, Suggs, etc) not at all.

Let's face it- we are all simply "used" to having a top-5 defense (if not #1 or #2) pretty much every year. Having a 7th or 9th ranked defense is a plus to many other team's fans, but a big step down for us.

I agree, but would also add I think the Olines are getting away with a lot more under these refs causing defense to not be as big a factor in games and sack counts low

Kornbread
09-24-2012, 09:48 AM
It is disappointing....I'm just glad I did not bet on the game!:yuck2:

suitanim
09-24-2012, 09:54 AM
TOP is another frustrating stat. If you'd show me JUST Ben's numbers and TOP, I'd say we were 3-0. But we have no running game (we NEED Mendy back...sorry, it's just a fact), and we miss Troy and Harrison a LOT.

steelerdude15
09-24-2012, 09:59 AM
TOP is another frustrating stat. If you'd show me JUST Ben's numbers and TOP, I'd say we were 3-0. But we have no running game (we NEED Mendy back...sorry, it's just a fact), and we miss Troy and Harrison a LOT.

Yeah, having a running game would sure help. I have a feeling Mendy will be back against the Eagles. I hope he gets over one hundred yards in his first game back.

Psycho Ward 86
09-24-2012, 10:17 AM
i just hope we have a 100 yard rusher this year lol

polamalubeast
09-24-2012, 10:19 AM
i just hope we have a good defense this year lol

fixed

steelerdude15
09-24-2012, 10:23 AM
fixed

I hope we have both.

Craic
09-24-2012, 11:52 AM
A running game won't help anything. There's nothing wrong with our offense right now. TOP and scoring points to the fact that our offense is just fine. The problem, lock, stock, and barrel right now, is our defense.

Of course, I've been saying that we have a problem with our pass defense ever since the the 2008 SB, but very few ever paid attention then. Maybe now people will start agreeing.

suitanim
09-24-2012, 11:59 AM
A running game won't help anything. There's nothing wrong with our offense right now. TOP and scoring points to the fact that our offense is just fine. The problem, lock, stock, and barrel right now, is our defense.

Of course, I've been saying that we have a problem with our pass defense ever since the the 2008 SB, but very few ever paid attention then. Maybe now people will start agreeing.

Disagree. An effective running game will make our TOP edge even more pronounced.

Craic
09-24-2012, 12:19 PM
Disagree. An effective running game will make our TOP edge even more pronounced.

How? I ask that seriously, because when you factor in Ben's completion percentage, the fact that he runs the clock down to just about zero every time, the penalties we take which backs us up (so that a 15 yard completion still leaves us with 5 yards for a first down - meaning that gaining 10 yards a pass play isn't exactly 1/10 of the entire field), and the fact that our defense can be scored on in less than a minute and a half, as has happened in three of the last four games going back to last year, I fail to see how a more effective running game will change the overall game at all. All it would do, is lessen the passes being thrown. So it'd be a balanced attack. TOP would change.

polamalubeast
09-24-2012, 12:23 PM
The Steelers must play with their strength and the strength of the offense of steelers is the passing game

I have no problem that Roethlisberger pass 40 times per game, especially that the o-line is playing well right now

And the steelers are the best team in the TOP

steelreserve
09-24-2012, 01:16 PM
It is disappointing....I'm just glad I did not bet on the game!:yuck2:

Well, lucky for you. I'm still sobbing this morning over the money I lost. Even drinking all night didn't help.

Craic
09-24-2012, 04:12 PM
Well, lucky for you. I'm still sobbing this morning over the money I lost. Even drinking all night didn't help.

Which is why I NEVER bet. It just kills me.

Count Steeler
09-24-2012, 04:15 PM
i just hope we have a 100 yard rusher this year lol

I just hope we rush for 100 yards in a game.

suitanim
09-24-2012, 04:40 PM
How? I ask that seriously, because when you factor in Ben's completion percentage, the fact that he runs the clock down to just about zero every time, the penalties we take which backs us up (so that a 15 yard completion still leaves us with 5 yards for a first down - meaning that gaining 10 yards a pass play isn't exactly 1/10 of the entire field), and the fact that our defense can be scored on in less than a minute and a half, as has happened in three of the last four games going back to last year, I fail to see how a more effective running game will change the overall game at all. All it would do, is lessen the passes being thrown. So it'd be a balanced attack. TOP would change.

He still had incomplete passes. Those stop the clock. He threw the ball 50 times. He missed 14. Convert 10 of those passes to runs, and you have 39 and 29 instead of 49 and 29. Each of those runs keeps the clock rolling.

Surely you know that?

bayz101
09-24-2012, 04:49 PM
He still had incomplete passes. Those stop the clock. He threw the ball 50 times. He missed 14. Convert 10 of those passes to runs, and you have 39 and 29 instead of 49 and 29. Each of those runs keeps the clock rolling.

Surely you know that?

Yes. Convert 10 of those passes to runs and gain 3 yards. That's how the running game has worked for us. The Raiders are one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. You have to make them pay.

ALLD
09-24-2012, 05:11 PM
The defense lost the game outside of the turnovers and it is all Arians fault.

Craic
09-24-2012, 06:00 PM
He still had incomplete passes. Those stop the clock. He threw the ball 50 times. He missed 14. Convert 10 of those passes to runs, and you have 39 and 29 instead of 49 and 29. Each of those runs keeps the clock rolling.

Surely you know that?

But that's improper math for a number of reasons.

1. You surmise that a run takes away an incomplete pass. It is just as likely that by converting 10 of those passes to runs, you then have 39 and 19. With the runs taking away COMPLETED passes. That means that unless the run goes for the same amount of yards as the pass, we have more change of possessions, and are even less effective moving the ball, which translates to less TD's. TOP means nothing without TD's.

2. A number of the throws that were made (and were incomplete) were on third down in the second half of the game. Those throws had to have been made, which therefore should also be factored out of the equation, because of the pressing need for getting a first down on a third and eight. You're also forgetting penalties, which puts us in a first and 20, or even I think I saw once, second and 25. Those situations mandate throws. Thus, those throws shouldn't be factored in either. Yet, how many pass were dropped in those situations? Basically, what I'm saying is that a number of those incompletions would have come no matter how many times you ran the ball, because the situational element of the game demanded us to pass it.

NOTE: You could argue that we just run the ball and not worry about passing, but I don't buy the "run the ball 3 times and hand it to the other team" approach, especially with the defense we have now.

3. There's a myth that running the ball equates to more TOP. The problem is, running the ball only equates to TOP when first downs can be stacked up. Otherwise, it equates to less TOP than throwing the ball and gaining first downs, thus keeping it and moving down the field. I submit to you that if we converted 10 of those passes to runs, we'd also have converted anywhere from 2-4 less first downs. depending on when that happened, that may have taken anywhere from a couple minutes to ten or fifteen minutes off our TOP, as it very well may have killed one or two long drives during the first couple series of downs.

That is why I don't buy the argument about that running the ball = TOP. Because we've seen too many times when the Steelers have driven down the field in the past and scored a number of times, only to convert to "running the clock out" by running the ball, and see our TOP shrink to almost nothing because we fail to get first downs.

It's a lot more complex than running the ball 10 more times giving us a better TOP.

Surely you know that.

polamalubeast
09-24-2012, 06:06 PM
And again, even if the steelers pass 40 times per game, they are the best team in the NFL for the TOP

this is not a problem

The goal is scoring points, especially when the game is close and the Steelers have a better chance to succeed this goal when he passes the ball!

zulater
09-24-2012, 06:09 PM
We're second in the NFL to the Texans in T.O.P.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2012&seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference

polamalubeast
09-24-2012, 06:11 PM
We're second in the NFL to the Texans in T.O.P.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2012&seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference

The TOP is not a problem!

zulater
09-24-2012, 06:15 PM
The TOP is not a problem!


Of course it's not. That's why I posted the link. We're better than 30 other teams. So if it's a problem for us, what does that say for the rest of the league?

st33lersguy
09-24-2012, 09:48 PM
Is there a team in the NFL that does less with more yardage in the NFL than the Steelers? Seriously. Why do they have to waste good yardage and good TOP.

fansince'76
09-24-2012, 10:54 PM
A running game won't help anything. There's nothing wrong with our offense right now. TOP and scoring points to the fact that our offense is just fine. The problem, lock, stock, and barrel right now, is our defense.

Yep. It doesn't matter if we take 10 minutes off the clock and score a TD if the defense gives it right back in about two minutes.

Devilsdancefloor
09-24-2012, 11:39 PM
Id really like to see the steelers corner in more press coverage i think we have to guys that can do it very well and we are not doing it think tha twill help with the lack of pressure we are getting on D as well. plus it would help out on run support cause our Run D is scarey bad

Craic
09-25-2012, 12:18 AM
Yep. It doesn't matter if we take 10 minutes off the clock and score a TD if the defense gives it right back in about two minutes.

Exactly. I mean, how can anyone trust them? Just LOOK at these guys!

http://www.artofdharma.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/sieve.jpg

X-Terminator
09-25-2012, 12:38 AM
Is there a team in the NFL that does less with more yardage in the NFL than the Steelers? Seriously. Why do they have to waste good yardage and good TOP.

Are you freaking kidding me? They scored 31 points! What the fuck else do you want? Is it their fault the defense couldn't stop a team full of 70 year olds with walkers? Oh that's right...to some, it is. Nevermind...

GBMelBlount
09-25-2012, 06:27 AM
A running game won't help anything. There's nothing wrong with our offense right now. TOP and scoring points to the fact that our offense is just fine. The problem, lock, stock, and barrel right now, is our defense.

Of course, I've been saying that we have a problem with our pass defense ever since the the 2008 SB, but very few ever paid attention then. Maybe now people will start agreeing.

While we had statistically the best pass defense in the nfl we have a big problem getting pressure on the QB's.

zulater
09-25-2012, 06:39 AM
Are you freaking kidding me? They scored 31 points! What the fuck else do you want? Is it their fault the defense couldn't stop a team full of 70 year olds with walkers? Oh that's right...to some, it is. Nevermind...

You know what, it was the defense's fault. But forget how you got there for a minute, if you tell me going into a game that late 4th quarter tied game and you've got decent field position, then I'm saying the offense has a chance and should get the job done. The offense isn't blameless. they're not scoring points in the 4th quarter. You've got to finish!

GBMelBlount
09-25-2012, 06:46 AM
Are you freaking kidding me? They scored 31 points! What the fuck else do you want? Is it their fault the defense couldn't stop a team full of 70 year olds with walkers? Oh that's right...to some, it is. Nevermind...

Looking at the positives, 27 to 30 ppg is on the radar and that was not even sniffable the last several years.

We went 12-4 averaging only 20 ppg last year...

What I think this year may hinge on is LeBeau getting the defense figured out like he did last year after a very bumpy defensive start.

steelpride12
09-25-2012, 08:05 AM
Well I keep hearing people say "this is an offensive league now," "Offense wins games and championships." False. Defense will always win games and in the end win championships.

X-Terminator
09-25-2012, 09:45 AM
You know what, it was the defense's fault. But forget how you got there for a minute, if you tell me going into a game that late 4th quarter tied game and you've got decent field position, then I'm saying the offense has a chance and should get the job done. The offense isn't blameless. they're not scoring points in the 4th quarter. You've got to finish!

I absolutely refuse to blame the offense in any way for a loss in a game where they should not have even been in that position in the first place. It is a ridiculous notion, plain and simple. But it's what Steelers fans do. Any possible way they can blame the offense and take the heat off the defense, they will do it.

Edman
09-25-2012, 10:05 AM
The game changes remarkably if Dwyer and Antonio Brown don't fumble. Those were back breakers right there. That's not on the Offense, it's on two guys. Your Defense isn't getting it done today, you can't afford to make mistakes in that situation.

That said, the Defense has a lot of soul-searching to do. I've personally had it with Lebeau's bullshit. This loss was because of his ego. Not adjusting what clearly wasn't working. It was a mistake to keep him around this year. He had a great career, but he needs to be put on notice, and now. Cut out the ten-yard cushion bullshit, the read-react crap, and start attacking. The Jets game is proof that this Defense still has what it takes, but Dickard keeps neutering it having it play passive cushy crap. Well check it out, the Raiders ate it up the Zone D for lunch and dinner. That offense isn't that good, Dickard just had a brainfart of epic proportions.

zulater
09-26-2012, 01:58 AM
I absolutely refuse to blame the offense in any way for a loss in a game where they should not have even been in that position in the first place. It is a ridiculous notion, plain and simple. But it's what Steelers fans do. Any possible way they can blame the offense and take the heat off the defense, they will do it.

Who's absolving the defense? They're awful, and until they show me otherwise I just presume they'll be more liability than asset this year. In order for the Steelers to make a run this season the offense is going to have to win the games. And in my opinion they're capable of delivering. But they got to play the game all the way through. We're not scoring in the 4th quarter on possessions that time and field position aren't a negative factor on. Change that and we're sitting here at 3-0 or at least 2-1 right now.

Craic
09-26-2012, 01:23 PM
The game changes remarkably if Dwyer and Antonio Brown don't fumble. Those were back breakers right there. That's not on the Offense, it's on two guys. Your Defense isn't getting it done today, you can't afford to make mistakes in that situation.

That said, the Defense has a lot of soul-searching to do. I've personally had it with Lebeau's bullshit. This loss was because of his ego. Not adjusting what clearly wasn't working. It was a mistake to keep him around this year. He had a great career, but he needs to be put on notice, and now. Cut out the ten-yard cushion bullshit, the read-react crap, and start attacking. The Jets game is proof that this Defense still has what it takes, but Dickard keeps neutering it having it play passive cushy crap. Well check it out, the Raiders ate it up the Zone D for lunch and dinner. That offense isn't that good, Dickard just had a brainfart of epic proportions.
http://www.banklawyersblog.com/.a/6a00d8341c652b53ef017616adb883970c-800wi


We have problems, but it's not enough to justify throwing out Lebeau. This is the same guy that four years ago, was a god among men, the savior of Arians, and the only reason the Steelers won a Superbowl, if I remember the rhetoric right. I trust the man to make adjustments in season, and he will.