Arians: Quality, not quantity

[polamalubeast]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_691409.html


Arians: Quality, not quantity
By Mark Kaboly, MCKEESPORT DAILY NEWS
Thursday, July 22, 2010

For the critics who believe offensive coordinator Bruce Arians needs to call more running plays, that he needs to get back to the type of blue-collar Steelers football that provided the organization so much success over the years, he has a revelation.

"We need to run the ball better," Arians said, "not necessarily more."

That's what Arians took away from meetings with the organization's higher-ups, including team president Art Rooney II and coach Mike Tomlin, after last year's 9-7 team missed the playoffs. The veteran offensive coordinator couldn't agree more with the theory.

So as the Steelers await next week's training camp at St. Vincent College, Arians is dedicated to running the ball better situationally and not necessarily more frequently, even if he will be without quarterback Ben Roethlisberger for at least a quarter of the season.

"It is the quality of the runs more than the quantity that I am worried about," Arians said.

The Steelers ran only 42 percent of the time in 2009, but still had their most successful offensive season in team history with a 4,000-yard passer (Roethlisberger), two 1,000-yard receivers (Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes) and a 1,000-yard rusher (Rashard Mendenhall).

Despite the lack of rushing attempts, the Steelers' 112 yards per game were nearly seven more than they accumulated during their 2008 Super Bowl season.

Short-circuit
The Steelers were one of the worst short-yardage running teams in the NFL last year. Here is how the 2009 runners fared on attempts third-and-3 yards or less:
Player Attempts-Conversion %
Rashard Mendenhall 6 of 12 50
Mewelde Moore 3 of 5 60
Willie Parker 1 of 3 33
Ben Roethlisberger 3 of 3 100
Dennis Dixon 2 of 2 100
Total 15 of 25 60

Where the Steelers noticeably lacked with their running game was in short-yardage situations; they ranked 25th in the league in converting third-and-shorts, categorized as 3 yards or fewer.

The Steelers converted only 60 percent of their third-and-short rushing attempts (15 of 25). Miami led the NFL at 82 percent.

"We need to do it better especially in those situations," Arians said. "We can't put our defense back on the field after leaving a third-and-two out there. You have to make that first down. The ability to take it at the end of games and continue to make first downs hasn't been there for a while. That forces us to do other things."

That only other thing is to throw the ball, and Arians isn't shy about having his quarterback do that.

In six seasons as an NFL offensive coordinator -- three with Cleveland and three with the Steelers -- Arians has called more running plays than passing plays once.

In short-yardage situations last season, Arians called three more passing plays (28) than runs, and he did not call a single run play on a third-and-3 situation the entire season.

"We are going to play football," Arians said. "It is all about scoring points. If you have a lead in the fourth quarter, you are going to run the ball a whole lot more than you are going to throw it. We would love at the end of the season be straight up 50-50."

Roethlisberger, who converted 16 of 28 third-down passes into first downs in short-yardage situations last year, agrees that the Steelers need to run the ball better, even if it means a dip in his statistics.

"We have capable guys," he said in a TV interview in June. "You have to be able to run the ball effectively, and I think that was the key that Bruce and Mr. Rooney and Coach Tomlin tried to get across this offseason and at the end of the year."

The Steelers believe balance will be the key to their success without Roethlisberger in the lineup early in the 2010 season.

"If we need to run to win or pass to win, we will be able to do that," said Mendenhall, who rushed for 1,108 yards and seven touchdowns in only 12 starts last year. "We are confident in our offense that we will be able to do whatever we need to do to win."

The organization and coaches believe the fix to their flawed running game is to tackle the team's short-yardage woes.

The numbers show the Steelers were almost average in that category. One more conversion would've moved them to 15th in the NFL. However, those numbers are skewed because the Steelers were 5 for 5 on quarterback sneaks. Remove those attempts, and the running game's success rate dips to 50 percent.

Mendenhall's success rate on third-and-short was 50 percent. By comparison, Indianapolis' Joseph Addai converted nearly 80 percent of his attempts.

"You have to look at the guys you have back there," Arians said. "Some guys have to learn that they aren't running for a touchdown. We need a yard. Rashard did a good job on goal line, but not as good a job on short yardage. That will again be an emphasis in training camp."

Tomlin welcomes competition for the short-yardage job, and candidates include Mendenhall, last year's training camp star, Isaac Redman, and Georgia Tech rookie sixth-round pick Jonathan Dwyer.

"We are looking for people to distinguish themselves in situational football," Tomlin said. "It is interesting; we've got some young guys in the backfield who might have a degree of pedigree that is geared toward those things."

Mendenhall, 23, figures to be the workhorse in the backfield with the departure of Willie Parker to the Washington Redskins. He wants to be the featured back, playing on third downs and, of course, short-yardage situations.

"Every day I work to try to put myself in a position to be able to carry out whatever they ask me to do," Mendenhall said. "That is what I am preparing myself for. I feel a lot more comfortable out there. I have gone through it all before, so I know what to expect."

[SirHulka]

Take away the QB's running, and the RB's were only 10 for 20 on 3rd and short.

[Chidi29]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_691409.html



For the critics who believe offensive coordinator Bruce Arians needs to call more running plays, that he needs to get back to the type of blue-collar Steelers football that provided the organization so much success over the years, he has a revelation.

"We need to run the ball better," Arians said, "not necessarily more."

That's what Arians took away from meetings with the organization's higher-ups, including team president Art Rooney II and coach Mike Tomlin, after last year's 9-7 team missed the playoffs. The veteran offensive coordinator couldn't agree more with the theory.

So as the Steelers await next week's training camp at St. Vincent College, Arians is dedicated to running the ball better situationally and not necessarily more frequently, even if he will be without quarterback Ben Roethlisberger for at least a quarter of the season.

"It is the quality of the runs more than the quantity that I am worried about," Arians said.

The Steelers ran only 42 percent of the time in 2009, but still had their most successful offensive season in team history with a 4,000-yard passer (Roethlisberger), two 1,000-yard receivers (Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes) and a 1,000-yard rusher (Rashard Mendenhall).

Despite the lack of rushing attempts, the Steelers' 112 yards per game were nearly seven more than they accumulated during their 2008 Super Bowl season.

Short-circuit
The Steelers were one of the worst short-yardage running teams in the NFL last year. Here is how the 2009 runners fared on attempts third-and-3 yards or less:
Player Attempts-Conversion %
Rashard Mendenhall 6 of 12 50
Mewelde Moore 3 of 5 60
Willie Parker 1 of 3 33
Ben Roethlisberger 3 of 3 100
Dennis Dixon 2 of 2 100
Total 15 of 25 60

Where the Steelers noticeably lacked with their running game was in short-yardage situations; they ranked 25th in the league in converting third-and-shorts, categorized as 3 yards or fewer.

The Steelers converted only 60 percent of their third-and-short rushing attempts (15 of 25). Miami led the NFL at 82 percent.

"We need to do it better especially in those situations," Arians said. "We can't put our defense back on the field after leaving a third-and-two out there. You have to make that first down. The ability to take it at the end of games and continue to make first downs hasn't been there for a while. That forces us to do other things."

That only other thing is to throw the ball, and Arians isn't shy about having his quarterback do that.

In six seasons as an NFL offensive coordinator -- three with Cleveland and three with the Steelers -- Arians has called more running plays than passing plays once.

In short-yardage situations last season, Arians called three more passing plays (28) than runs, and he did not call a single run play on a third-and-3 situation the entire season.

"We are going to play football," Arians said. "It is all about scoring points. If you have a lead in the fourth quarter, you are going to run the ball a whole lot more than you are going to throw it. We would love at the end of the season be straight up 50-50."

Roethlisberger, who converted 16 of 28 third-down passes into first downs in short-yardage situations last year, agrees that the Steelers need to run the ball better, even if it means a dip in his statistics.

"We have capable guys," he said in a TV interview in June. "You have to be able to run the ball effectively, and I think that was the key that Bruce and Mr. Rooney and Coach Tomlin tried to get across this offseason and at the end of the year."

The Steelers believe balance will be the key to their success without Roethlisberger in the lineup early in the 2010 season.

"If we need to run to win or pass to win, we will be able to do that," said Mendenhall, who rushed for 1,108 yards and seven touchdowns in only 12 starts last year. "We are confident in our offense that we will be able to do whatever we need to do to win."

The organization and coaches believe the fix to their flawed running game is to tackle the team's short-yardage woes.

The numbers show the Steelers were almost average in that category. One more conversion would've moved them to 15th in the NFL. However, those numbers are skewed because the Steelers were 5 for 5 on quarterback sneaks. Remove those attempts, and the running game's success rate dips to 50 percent.

Mendenhall's success rate on third-and-short was 50 percent. By comparison, Indianapolis' Joseph Addai converted nearly 80 percent of his attempts.

"You have to look at the guys you have back there," Arians said. "Some guys have to learn that they aren't running for a touchdown. We need a yard. Rashard did a good job on goal line, but not as good a job on short yardage. That will again be an emphasis in training camp."

Tomlin welcomes competition for the short-yardage job, and candidates include Mendenhall, last year's training camp star, Isaac Redman, and Georgia Tech rookie sixth-round pick Jonathan Dwyer.

"We are looking for people to distinguish themselves in situational football," Tomlin said. "It is interesting; we've got some young guys in the backfield who might have a degree of pedigree that is geared toward those things."

Mendenhall, 23, figures to be the workhorse in the backfield with the departure of Willie Parker to the Washington Redskins. He wants to be the featured back, playing on third downs and, of course, short-yardage situations.

"Every day I work to try to put myself in a position to be able to carry out whatever they ask me to do," Mendenhall said. "That is what I am preparing myself for. I feel a lot more comfortable out there. I have gone through it all before, so I know what to expect."

1st bolded point: And that's all the FO has asked for all this time. That somehow got turned into "Run the ball more" by the media. Not the case.

In regards to those short-yard situations, I agree. We were pourous and need to do a better job. I looked at short-yard situations on any down, and our passing game had a higher conversion rate than our running game. I don't know how that stacks up against other teams, but I can't blame us for passing the way he did last year.

2nd bolded point: Couple of things that need to be said about that.

You can't look at just total numbers. The situations of the game change playcalls. Obviously, if you're up big in the second half you're going to run, and if you're down, you're going to pass. I've looked at different game situations that would have less of an influence on score.

Looking at 1st quarter and 1st down numbers, Arians was much more balanced than the skewed numbers that were presented. He ranked 7th in balance last year and the pass/run splits in each situation were very close. And I'm in the midst of another study where I've currently looked at 45 different outcomes from 15 AFC teams dating back to 2005. This study looks at pass/run splits in the first half. Of the 45 different outcomes, only ONCE has an AFC team ran the ball more than they passed it. Meaning, teams in general pass more often than they run.

Third bolded point: Here is where I really start to question the credibility of these numbers.

If you look at any short-yard situation, the whole picture, we ran 72 times and only attempted 45 passes.

We didn't run the ball once on 3rd and 3? That statement means one of two things.

1. The guy is lying.
2. He is being ultra-specific and trying to manipulate. When I read that, I think 3rd and 3 or closer. This would include 3rd and 1 and 3rd and 2. Most people would think the same. And we have run the ball on 3rd and 3 or closer. Multiple times.

[tony hipchest]

We didn't run the ball once on 3rd and 3? That statement means one of two things.

1. The guy is lying.
2. He is being ultra-specific and trying to manipulate. When I read that, I think 3rd and 3 or closer. This would include 3rd and 1 and 3rd and 2. Most people would think the same. And we have run the ball on 3rd and 3 or closer. Multiple times.

what that means is on 3rd down with 3 yards to go, the steelers called pass every time that situation arose. a balanced team would like that number to be closer to 50-50. a dominant run team like dallas with emmit smith would run just about every time.

every team has scouts and assistants who break down and chart and EVERY play they run on EVERY down and distance, meaning our opponent all know what we do on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 8, 3rd and 7, so on and so forth.

cousin bruce comes off as a numbskull in this article. he still thinks its a good idea to run 18 times in rain and 40 mph winds, and throw 45 times as long as the 18 run plays are "better"? :doh2:

no names like jamal charles and jerome harrison are running for 200+ yards against the likes of cleveland, raiders and chiefs defense, yet he dont think its a good idea to cram mendenhall down their throat and impose our will?

[hotrodder07]

what that means is on 3rd down with 3 yards to go, the steelers called pass every time that situation arose. a balanced team would like that number to be closer to 50-50. a dominant run team like dallas with emmit smith would run just about every time.

every team has scouts and assistants who break down and chart and EVERY play they run on EVERY down and distance, meaning our opponent all know what we do on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 8, 3rd and 7, so on and so forth.

cousin bruce comes off as a numbskull in this article. he still thinks its a good idea to run 18 times in rain and 40 mph winds, and throw 45 times as long as the 18 run plays are "better"? :doh2:

no names like jamal charles and jerome harrison are running for 200+ yards against the likes of cleveland, raiders and chiefs defense, yet he dont think its a good idea to cram mendenhall down their throat and impose our will?

That's exactly the problem I have with that. Our opponents study what we do in every down and distance situations. When we have a 3rd and 3 coming up, the defense would have a pretty good idea of what's coming. AND, they know for sure when we line up in an empty backfield, 5-wide formation. You have to keep the defense guessing. And Bruce Arians called some pretty predictable games last year.

[SteelGhost]

"If we need to run to win or pass to win, we will be able to do that," said Mendenhall,

I HOPE you're right Rashard, :thumbsup:

Brucey has to call MORE run plays in bad weather and more effective run plays overall, specially the first 4-6 games.

[Psycho Ward 86]

"Quality, not quantity"


So why does Arians like FIVE-wide again?

[Chidi29]

what that means is on 3rd down with 3 yards to go, the steelers called pass every time that situation arose. a balanced team would like that number to be closer to 50-50. a dominant run team like dallas with emmit smith would run just about every time.

every team has scouts and assistants who break down and chart and EVERY play they run on EVERY down and distance, meaning our opponent all know what we do on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 8, 3rd and 7, so on and so forth.

cousin bruce comes off as a numbskull in this article. he still thinks its a good idea to run 18 times in rain and 40 mph winds, and throw 45 times as long as the 18 run plays are "better"? :doh2:

no names like jamal charles and jerome harrison are running for 200+ yards against the likes of cleveland, raiders and chiefs defense, yet he dont think its a good idea to cram mendenhall down their throat and impose our will?

But you don't think people think of 3rd and 3...and shorter, when he says that? I did.

But he is right. We didn't run it on 3rd and 3.

What he fails to mention are the number of instances where we had 3rd and 3's. Only nine all year long. That's a very small sample size.

But get this. We were 4/9 with two touchdowns. 44% clip.

Mendenhall, as the author claims, was only at 50% with zero touchdowns in short yard situations. The two conversion rates are pretty similar.

It's pretty simple to see the author's manipulation here. He makes one statement, saying we didn't run once on 3rd and 3, which automatically makes people think that we had one hundred chances to do so. We didn't. The sample size is very small and as I just stated, the conversion rate is right in line with the running backs.

From the larger scale numbers I've looked at, we ran the ball plenty in short-yardage situations. 72 rushes to 45 passes. And passing led to more conversions. That shows Arians was willing to stick with the run.

You can't determine balance by those nine instances. You have to look at larger numbers. And to really make any claim about how good we were/weren't, you'd have to take the time to look at all the other team's numbers. You need something to base ours off of.

I determined balance by going through every rushing/passing attempt in the first quarter and on first down last year. Combined, you're looking at each team having anywhere from 700-800 plays. Compare that to the nine you're looking at. Compare that to my 110+ I looked at in short yard situations in my study.

Everyone just looks at the Browns game. It was bad, no doubt about that. But that's the only game they look at. As if one game speaks for the entire season. It doesn't.

And let's not act like Mendenhall was successful that game either. That Arians just ignored the great job our running game was doing. What was YPC that game? Did he pick up, oh I don't know, not pick up a 3rd and one the series after the first sack out of five wide? And you know what, Bruce ended up going back to him even after that.

Don't think we were throwing bombs all day either. That first sack we had on the 3rd and 1? It was designed to be a five yard in route to Heath Miller, If you can't even do that, regardless of the weather, you're not going to move the ball.

Nothing worked that game. You might as well play to the strengths of your team. And last year, that was the passing game.

There is so much more to Arians than the Browns game. Your boss doesn't base you off of one day's work, good or bad. Fans should do the same to coaches.

[Chidi29]

I HOPE you're right Rashard, :thumbsup:

Brucey has to call MORE run plays in bad weather and more effective run plays overall, specially the first 4-6 games.

He really can't call more "effective" running plays. That's going to be based on our execution.

[Mach1]

what that means is on 3rd down with 3 yards to go, the steelers called pass every time that situation arose. a balanced team would like that number to be closer to 50-50. a dominant run team like dallas with emmit smith would run just about every time.

every team has scouts and assistants who break down and chart and EVERY play they run on EVERY down and distance, meaning our opponent all know what we do on 3rd and 10, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 8, 3rd and 7, so on and so forth.

cousin bruce comes off as a numbskull in this article. he still thinks its a good idea to run 18 times in rain and 40 mph winds, and throw 45 times as long as the 18 run plays are "better"? :doh2:

no names like jamal charles and jerome harrison are running for 200+ yards against the likes of cleveland, raiders and chiefs defense, yet he dont think its a good idea to cram mendenhall down their throat and impose our will?

:applaudit:

[SteelGhost]

He really can't call more "effective" running plays. That's going to be based on our execution.

Yes Chidi execution is key, but maybe BA needs to make some changes in running plays that may be more effective according to the players skills :noidea:

IMHO, to run the ball better this season we will need a FB now that we are thinner at RT, but Arians refuses to have one. I hope McHugh/Spaeth/Johnson/Legursky help blocking for our RBs.

[tony hipchest]

There is so much more to Arians than the Browns game. Your boss doesn't base you off of one day's work, good or bad. Fans should do the same to coaches.if i came to work, took a dump on his desk and then set the place on fire, he would.

thats pretty much what arians did that woeful evening in cleveland. they were a 1 win team with 11 losses. we were the superbowl champs.

it was like handing a kid the keys to the cadillac and watching him try to drive it 120 mph with the parking brake on. :doh2:

[fansince'76]

He really can't call more "effective" running plays. That's going to be based on our execution.

Agreed, but you're fighting a losing battle here, Chidi.

[Chidi29]

IMHO, to run the ball better this season we will need a FB now that we are thinner at RT, but Arians refuses to have one. I hope McHugh/Spaeth/Johnson/Legursky help blocking for our RBs.

This is one of the most common anti-Arians arguments. It's also one of the most illogical.

Arians doesn't have roster control. He doesn't get to pick and choose what players are on the roster or what players we draft. Granted, he might have some input, but ultimately, these decisions come down upon Tomlin and Colbert.

If either of those two really wanted a blocking FB, they would have gone out and gotten one. They have made no such effort to do so. If you want to blame anyone, blame them.

Frank Summers and Carey Davis could not be blocking backs.

[Chidi29]

Agreed, but you're fighting a losing battle here, Chidi.

I'm pretty confident I can win. Very experienced in fighting this battle. Did so for a long time on another board.

[Chidi29]

if i came to work, took a dump on his desk and then set the place on fire, he would.

thats pretty much what arians did that woeful evening in cleveland. they were a 1 win team with 11 losses. we were the superbowl champs.

it was like handing a kid the keys to the cadillac and watching him try to drive it 120 mph with the parking brake on. :doh2:

Look in the sky! It's a bird. It's a plane. No, it's hyperbole!

And it's not what I meant. You know the comparison I was making.

[fansince'76]

Look in the sky! It's a bird. It's a plane. No, it's hyperbole!

Case in point. It's just not worth it at this point, IMO. This argument always comes down to the same points being made over and over and over again. BTW, I agree with you, but I'm very much in the minority.

[Chidi29]

Case in point. It's just not worth it at this point, IMO. This argument always comes down to the same points being made over and over and over again. BTW, I agree with you, but I'm very much in the minority.

Boring the other person to death with a sea of long posts and number crunching is still a win in my book. :lol:

[Dino 6 Rings]

Still, a big blocking Full Back would be nice to have on the roster regardless of who controls it.

Would be nice to have a guy that can blow open a hole for the back to follow on 3rd and Short. Of coarse it would be nice if the O-line would actually create a hole too and if the back would hit the hole hard and keep his feet moving, and not get hit 3 yards deep in those situations.

It would also be nice if I could afford to get my daughter a Pony.

[Chidi29]

Still, a big blocking Full Back would be nice to have on the roster regardless of who controls it.

Would be nice to have a guy that can blow open a hole for the back to follow on 3rd and Short. Of coarse it would be nice if the O-line would actually create a hole too and if the back would hit the hole hard and keep his feet moving, and not get hit 3 yards deep in those situations.

It would also be nice if I could afford to get my daughter a Pony.

Which is fine if you want it. Just don't blame Arians when we don't have it.

[SteelMember]

Agreed, but you're fighting a losing battle here, Chidi.

Yes. He makes some good points, but the "execution" still needs to be a result of the players abilities.

It's not like we've had the fleetest of foot on the o-line recently.


...and for what i's worth, I took 3rd and 3 to mean third down with three yards to go... specifically.

[X-Terminator]

I'm pretty confident I can win. Very experienced in fighting this battle. Did so for a long time on another board.

Yes, but this isn't like other boards. You simply do not have a chance of winning this argument here, sorry to say. The anti-Arians crowd is simply too rigid. It's why I don't argue about it anymore.

[MasterOfPuppets]

This is one of the most common anti-Arians arguments. It's also one of the most illogical.

Arians doesn't have roster control. He doesn't get to pick and choose what players are on the roster or what players we draft. Granted, he might have some input, but ultimately, these decisions come down upon Tomlin and Colbert.

If either of those two really wanted a blocking FB, they would have gone out and gotten one. They have made no such effort to do so. If you want to blame anyone, blame them.

Frank Summers and Carey Davis could not be blocking backs.

so you don't think there's a connection between arians arrival , krieder being shown the door, and arians saying "there's never been a fullback in my offense and never will be" ...???

[tony hipchest]

"We need to run the ball better," Arians said, "not necessarily more."

That's what Arians took away from meetings with the organization's higher-ups, including team president Art Rooney II and coach Mike Tomlin, after last year's 9-7 team missed the playoffs. The veteran offensive coordinator couldn't agree more with the theory.


arians is really splitting hairs, here. more is better.

ever since his head was on the chopping block after last season he seems uber defensive (almost to the point of being defiant).

there is absolutely nothing wrong with showing some humility and accountability to the fans by admitting mistakes were made and saying "in retrospect there were some instances that we should have run the ball more".

i think thats all the fans want. instead we get something to the effect of "i'd do it all over again" or "im not gonna change the way i do things for nobody".

oh well... this is his last year under contract. i hope he makes the best of his lame duck season

[SteelMember]

Arians doesn't have roster control. He doesn't get to pick and choose what players are on the roster or what players we draft. Granted, he might have some input, but ultimately, these decisions come down upon Tomlin and Colbert.

Now, this I don't get.

The premise that Bruce Arians, "the" offensive coordinator, can come into a job with "his" playbook and have no stay in the personnel decisions for his offense seems a bit outlandish to me.

If he had a playbook that included a FB, we'd have a FB.

[SteelGhost]

This is one of the most common anti-Arians arguments. It's also one of the most illogical.

Arians doesn't have roster control. He doesn't get to pick and choose what players are on the roster or what players we draft. Granted, he might have some input, but ultimately, these decisions come down upon Tomlin and Colbert.

If either of those two really wanted a blocking FB, they would have gone out and gotten one. They have made no such effort to do so. If you want to blame anyone, blame them.

Frank Summers and Carey Davis could not be blocking backs.

Ok Chidi, call me "one of the most illogical Steelers fan" if you will, but for the record I'm not an anti-Arians guy, I never said or imply that, I was just expressing an opinion :wink02:

Of course BA doesn't have roster control, but he can modify some plays according to players skills :noidea:

[Chidi29]

so you don't think there's a connection between arians arrival , krieder being shown the door, and arians saying "there's never been a fullback in my offense and never will be" ...???

Unless you think Arians is holding the front office hostage, no there isn't.

Krieder's knees were shot and he had hit his 30s. He was pretty much done and has been bouncing aorund jobs ever since.

And there were plays with a fullback last season. David Johnson got a lot of time there the second half of the year.

It's not Arians' fault the best we did at FB this offseason was bring in a DT who hasn't played FB since high school.

[Chidi29]

"We need to run the ball better," Arians said, "not necessarily more."

That's what Arians took away from meetings with the organization's higher-ups, including team president Art Rooney II and coach Mike Tomlin, after last year's 9-7 team missed the playoffs. The veteran offensive coordinator couldn't agree more with the theory.


arians is really splitting hairs, here. more is better.

ever since his head was on the chopping block after last season he seems uber defensive (almost to the point of being defiant).

there is absolutely nothing wrong with showing some humility and accountability to the fans by admitting mistakes were made and saying "in retrospect there were some instances that we should have run the ball more".

i think thats all the fans want. instead we get something to the effect of "i'd do it all over again" or "im not gonna change the way i do things for nobody".

oh well... this is his last year under contract. i hope he makes the best of his lame duck season

No, more doesn't correlate to better. And all Arians is doing is confirming what Art II said early in the offseason. Check the quotes again. Art never said more. He just said more effectively.

[st33lersguy]

Unfortunately for Airhead Arians you can't line up in empty backfield shotgun formation on third and short (like against Cleveland). Also he seems to forget that the steelers turned the ball over in the red zone on so many occasions by throwing. The turning point of the season was against Kansas City, Pittsburgh up 17-14 in the redzone, instead of jamming Mendenhall down their throats he throws the ball and it gets intercepted all the way inside the 5. Chiefs come back steelers lose, steelers miss playoffs. Here is Pittsburgh's OT drive in that game
# 1-10-PIT 20 (15:00) 34-R.Mendenhall up the middle to PIT 27 for 7 yards (96-A.Studebaker, 47-J.McGraw).
# 2-3-PIT 27 (14:21) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 86-H.Ward to PIT 44 for 17 yards (30-M.Brown).
# 1-10-PIT 44 (13:39) 34-R.Mendenhall up the middle to KC 49 for 7 yards (59-J.Belcher).
# 2-3-KC 49 (12:53) 7-B.Roethlisberger scrambles left tackle to KC 47 for 2 yards (56-D.Johnson; 96-A.Studebaker). PIT-7-B.Roethlisberger was injured during the play. PENALTY on PIT-62-J.Hartwig, Offensive Holding, 11 yards, enforced at KC 49 - No Play. WATCH HIGHLIGHT
# 2-14-PIT 40 (12:21) (Shotgun) 16-C.Batch pass short middle to 10-S.Holmes to KC 43 for 17 yards (39-B.Carr).
# 1-10-KC 43 (11:35) 16-C.Batch pass incomplete short right to 34-R.Mendenhall [51-C.Mays].
# 2-10-KC 43 (11:30) 34-R.Mendenhall left end to KC 35 for 8 yards (91-T.Hali).
# 3-2-KC 35 (10:43) 21-M.Moore right end to KC 38 for -3 yards (59-J.Belcher).
# 4-5-KC 38 (10:07) 9-D.Sepulveda punts 38 yards to end zone, Center-60-G.Warren, Touchback.

Everytime Mendenhall touched the ball on that drive he gained 7-8 yards, and with 3-2 at the 35 he tosses outside to Moore instead inside to Mendenhall.

Then against Cinci, lining up in shotgun in the redzone? No wonder we only got 4 FGs, and there are more situations I can think of

Here is Mendy's stats last year
CAR YDS AVG TD
242 1,108 4.6 7

Exactly what kind of quality was he looking for, the run worked when used, as it did in San Diego and Denver. The situations are there Arians is just not smart enough to take advantage of them

[Chidi29]

"We need to run the ball better," Arians said, "not necessarily more."

That's what Arians took away from meetings with the organization's higher-ups, including team president Art Rooney II and coach Mike Tomlin, after last year's 9-7 team missed the playoffs. The veteran offensive coordinator couldn't agree more with the theory.


arians is really splitting hairs, here. more is better.

ever since his head was on the chopping block after last season he seems uber defensive (almost to the point of being defiant).

there is absolutely nothing wrong with showing some humility and accountability to the fans by admitting mistakes were made and saying "in retrospect there were some instances that we should have run the ball more".

i think thats all the fans want. instead we get something to the effect of "i'd do it all over again" or "im not gonna change the way i do things for nobody".

oh well... this is his last year under contract. i hope he makes the best of his lame duck season

I didn't get a chance to finish my thought. My computer was making noises a computer shouldn't make and I had to shut it down.

Piggy-backing off my last point, I don't get when Art II says we need to run the ball effectively, he's praised. But when Arians says virtually the same exact thing, it's "Where is the accountability? Why aren't we going to run it more?" It seems like a double-standard to me.

He isn't being defiant. To me, that's just your bias of being anti-Arians coming into play and overanalyzing the comments. What he is saying is the same thing the front office said. If anything, they're on the same page.

No, that isn't what all the fans want. You guys have been complaining about Arians forever. You're never going to be happy. I'm not talking to you personally, or anyone on this board actually, but on another board, I went back and recorded a long list of hypocritcal statements made by the anti-Arians group. You guys will never be happy.

[Chidi29]

Now, this I don't get.

The premise that Bruce Arians, "the" offensive coordinator, can come into a job with "his" playbook and have no stay in the personnel decisions for his offense seems a bit outlandish to me.

If he had a playbook that included a FB, we'd have a FB.

I said that he does have some input in these matters, but the final decision does not lie with him. The final decisions come down to Tomlin and Colbert (for draft matters). Do you disagree with that idea?

The inverse of that is true. If we actually had a blocking fullback,, maybe we'd have a part of the playbook for him.

Do you want to be an I-Form offense with a fullback that can't block? That's putting a square peg in a round hole.

[polamalubeast]

RUN,RUN,PASS,PUNT

NO WAY!

[HometownGal]

He really can't call more "effective" running plays. That's going to be based on our execution.

:applaudit: :thumbsup: :applaudit: Bingo.


And 'round and 'round we go for the gazillionth time. :doh:

http://blog.myphysicaltherapyspace.com/WindowsLiveWriter/merry-go-round-16-12-2005.jpg

[HometownGal]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with showing some humility and accountability to the fans by admitting mistakes were made and saying "in retrospect there were some instances that we should have run the ball more".



BA's ONLY accountability is to Art II and Coach Tomlin. He doesn't owe the fans jack shart.

[Chidi29]

Unfortunately for Airhead Arians you can't line up in empty backfield shotgun formation on third and short (like against Cleveland). Also he seems to forget that the steelers turned the ball over in the red zone on so many occasions by throwing. The turning point of the season was against Kansas City, Pittsburgh up 17-14 in the redzone, instead of jamming Mendenhall down their throats he throws the ball and it gets intercepted all the way inside the 5. Chiefs come back steelers lose, steelers miss playoffs. Here is Pittsburgh's OT drive in that game
# 1-10-PIT 20 (15:00) 34-R.Mendenhall up the middle to PIT 27 for 7 yards (96-A.Studebaker, 47-J.McGraw).
# 2-3-PIT 27 (14:21) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 86-H.Ward to PIT 44 for 17 yards (30-M.Brown).
# 1-10-PIT 44 (13:39) 34-R.Mendenhall up the middle to KC 49 for 7 yards (59-J.Belcher).
# 2-3-KC 49 (12:53) 7-B.Roethlisberger scrambles left tackle to KC 47 for 2 yards (56-D.Johnson; 96-A.Studebaker). PIT-7-B.Roethlisberger was injured during the play. PENALTY on PIT-62-J.Hartwig, Offensive Holding, 11 yards, enforced at KC 49 - No Play. WATCH HIGHLIGHT
# 2-14-PIT 40 (12:21) (Shotgun) 16-C.Batch pass short middle to 10-S.Holmes to KC 43 for 17 yards (39-B.Carr).
# 1-10-KC 43 (11:35) 16-C.Batch pass incomplete short right to 34-R.Mendenhall [51-C.Mays].
# 2-10-KC 43 (11:30) 34-R.Mendenhall left end to KC 35 for 8 yards (91-T.Hali).
# 3-2-KC 35 (10:43) 21-M.Moore right end to KC 38 for -3 yards (59-J.Belcher).
# 4-5-KC 38 (10:07) 9-D.Sepulveda punts 38 yards to end zone, Center-60-G.Warren, Touchback.

Everytime Mendenhall touched the ball on that drive he gained 7-8 yards, and with 3-2 at the 35 he tosses outside to Moore instead inside to Mendenhall.

Then against Cinci, lining up in shotgun in the redzone? No wonder we only got 4 FGs, and there are more situations I can think of

Here is Mendy's stats last year
CAR YDS AVG TD
242 1,108 4.6 7

Exactly what kind of quality was he looking for, the run worked when used, as it did in San Diego and Denver. The situations are there Arians is just not smart enough to take advantage of them

Where to begin, where to begin.

Let me ask you something. You used ESPN's play-by-play for those drive logs, correct?

And surely you saw how we scored our touchdowns in that game. Right? They are in green letters, after all. Quite surprised you didn't catch that.

2nd and 9 at KC 10 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to H.Miller for 10 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
2nd and 8 at KC 8 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to R.Mendenhall for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

And how did Mendenhall fair from the ten yard line and closer. The ten being the line of scrimmage where Ben threw the pick.

1st and 6 at KC 6 R.Mendenhall up the middle to KC 8 for -2 yards (T.Hali).
R.Mendenhall up the middle to KC 8 for 1 yard (G.Dorsey).

It's actually pretty funny. After both of those runs, we went ahead scored via the pass on the next play.

Arians is in a situation where passing the ball inside the tean has resulted in two touchdowns while running the ball has gained little to nothing. What would you do?

I don't think we can place any blame on taking Mendenhall out of the game without making wild assumptions. We don't know exactly who made the call or what the circumstances were.

I know I'll catch flack for this, but I'm convinced Batch made an audible. We orginally line out of shotgun with Moore to the left and Miller to the right. Batch motions to both of them and we switch to strong I with Heath as the FB. I know we'll occasionally run some motion, but never with Heath like that. Heath at FB? And even if it was Arians' doing, one bad call shouldn't override everything else, as bad as it was.

The thing we have to remember is that we have a 100 million QB under center. He needs to be used and used often. Otherwise, why are you paying him the amounts that QBs like Peyton Manning got. That means throwing in a lot more situations that we wouldn't when he had Kordell under center. You're going to have to allow him freedom. Because he can be deadly. We've seen it before. Countless times.

In that Cincy game, there are situations where Ben needed to do a better job. Looking back on the sacks in the redzone, Ben could have thrown two touchdowns.

- 3rd and Goal: 4:54 in the 2nd: There is good coverage all around but Mike Wallace, who Ben was looking at, has a chance on the in route if Ben leads him. It looked like Morgan Trent had his back turned to Wallace for a second; Ben had already looked off Crocker. He had done everything right up until that point. Just have the confidence to lead your main target.

- 1st and goal: 56 seconds left: Bengal's bring the blitz, causing all the lineman to move down one assignment. That lets the DE come free with no one to pick him up since Moore had been motioned out. Instead of Ben reading the defense for a blitz, Ben immediately pump fakes. When he pulls it back, Geathers is all over him for the easy sack.

----------------

These are simple changes Ben has to make. He has to be able to anticipate that Wallace will get enough of room on Trent. Ben has to make the throw before Wallace finishes his route. That's what the great ones do. Read the play, trust your guy.

Ben has to recognize the fact he has limited protection. He should be assuming blitz. He can't pump at the start of the play because if there is a blitz, as there was, he's screwed. He's got five wide; if there is a blitz, there will be an open man in the slot.

These are the mistakes that will have to be learned from in order for Ben to reach his full potential. Mistakes aren't fun to make, but how else are you going to learn? Ben showed that he had learned, for that play at least, against Green Bay when he hit Moore on a slant going five wide inside the ten. Didn't pump, knew he could fit the ball in before an ILB jumped the route, and made a stick throw.

Consistency is the only thing holding Ben back. The only way to become more consistent is through repitition.

[Chidi29]

Ok Chidi, call me "one of the most illogical Steelers fan" if you will, but for the record I'm not an anti-Arians guy, I never said or imply that, I was just expressing an opinion :wink02:

Of course BA doesn't have roster control, but he can modify some plays according to players skills :noidea:

Woah, let's back it up. Don't put words in my mouth.

I said the argument is illogical. Not the person. Big difference.

He can't modify to having a blocking fullback when none of the players have those skills. Did you see how bad Frank Summers' blocking was the first few weeks? Did you want us to continue with that all year long with Carey Davis?

To be clear, I'm not attacking anyone personally. I don't dislike someone becauve they are for/against/indifferent of Arians. I want to make it clear that I haven't attacked anyone personally. I'm not insulting anyone's opinion. I do respect it. I just disagree with it, and because of my stubborness, will never stop hitting the "Reply" button.

[tony hipchest]

He isn't being defiant. To me, that's just your bias of being anti-Arians coming into play and overanalyzing the comments. What he is saying is the same thing the front office said. If anything, they're on the same page.my bias is your homerism, now isnt it? so now they are on the same page (which infers they were on a different page. but its all corrected by saying the same things, and arians implying that he is going to keep doing what he has been doing?

if you notice, it wasnt the players who were changed this off season so front management obviously doesnt think its a matter of their capabilities to execute. coaches were fired and arians is hanging by a thin thread.

Art II said its time to get back to "steelers football" and we all know what that means. arians is the one splitting hairs, not art II. arians is the coach. art is a lawyer. the coach should be smart enough to know what the owner means and wants.

either way, its his head on the chopping block, not mine.

[Shea]

For the people of the "execution" argument, answer me this ...

Why call the same plays over and over again, in the same situations, if you don't have the personnel that can execute those plays??

[Shea]

Forgot to add one other thing ...

Especially, when the opponent has studied you and know what's coming, making executing the play that much harder.

[st33lersguy]

Where to begin, where to begin.

Let me ask you something. You used ESPN's play-by-play for those drive logs, correct?

And surely you saw how we scored our touchdowns in that game. Right? They are in green letters, after all. Quite surprised you didn't catch that.


Wrong I used NFL.com, they don't say touchdowns in green letters. Also how about Mendenhall's statistics 1108 yards despite not starting until the 4th game and that he was given the ball 20 times or more only 6 times and 25 time or more just once and averaged less than 20 carries a game. He averaged 4.6 yards per carry, not bad. Also explain the brilliance behind going to empty backfield on 3rd and short on a cold night in Cleveland?

[tony hipchest]

arians might have a bit more credibility if he would quit splitting hairs and atleast get it right. he keeps hearing "run effectively" or "run better" when the boss is clearly saying to RUN MORE consistantly. that means no more 18 rush/45 pass bullshit.


"I think Mike and I certainly agreed coming off the season that we need to run the ball more consistently to get to where we want to get to," Rooney told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette yesterday. "So that's part of the thinking in the offseason: We need to figure out how to get better running the football."
Rooney said his coach has conveyed that to offensive coordinator Bruce Arians. "Mike has talked to Bruce about that."


The Steelers ran only 42.2 percent of the time in 2009, although their 112.1 yards a game were nearly seven more than their Super Bowl season of 2008. However, Rooney's point is not so much those statistics, but the inconsistency throughout the season.
"We have to get back to being able to run the football when we need to run the football, and being able to run more consistently than we have in the past season," he said.


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10015/1028435-66.stm#ixzz0uZBQO400







that all kinda means not passing more or as much. i clearly understand what rooney means and cant for the life of me figure out where arians keeps getting so confused.

its just plain stubbornness. its not a bias to say he has his ears clogged. its plain common sense and understanding WTF it is youre told. :noidea:

[zulater]

BA's ONLY accountability is to Art II and Coach Tomlin. He doesn't owe the fans jack shart.

What about his players? Doesn't he owe it to them to put them in the best situations to succeed?

[Chidi29]

my bias is your homerism, now isnt it? so now they are on the same page (which infers they were on a different page. but its all corrected by saying the same things, and arians implying that he is going to keep doing what he has been doing?

if you notice, it wasnt the players who were changed this off season so front management obviously doesnt think its a matter of their capabilities to execute. coaches were fired and arians is hanging by a thin thread.

Art II said its time to get back to "steelers football" and we all know what that means. arians is the one splitting hairs, not art II. arians is the coach. art is a lawyer. the coach should be smart enough to know what the owner means and wants.

either way, its his head on the chopping block, not mine.

I'm not the one overanalyzing the quote. You are. I'm taking it at face value.

I didn't say they're "now" on the same page. Just that they're on the same page. Doesn't imply that they weren't at some point.

If they really thought Arians was an issue, he would have been gone too.

And what players could you get rid of? Ben for some of the mistakes he made? Of course not. It can be easier to get rid of coaches than it can players. And there's still training camp to go. You could get a surprise cut. Essex comes to mind.

[Shea]

What about his players? Doesn't he owe it to them to put them in the best situations to succeed?

Which next would trickle down to us fans.

Without us none of this shit would be happening.

[Chidi29]

For the people of the "execution" argument, answer me this ...

Why call the same plays over and over again, in the same situations, if you don't have the personnel that can execute those plays??

Can you provide specific examples?

[Shea]

Can you provide specific examples?

This must be your first Arian's thread.

[Chidi29]

Wrong I used NFL.com, they don't say touchdowns in green letters. Also how about Mendenhall's statistics 1108 yards despite not starting until the 4th game and that he was given the ball 20 times or more only 6 times and 25 time or more just once and averaged less than 20 carries a game. He averaged 4.6 yards per carry, not bad. Also explain the brilliance behind going to empty backfield on 3rd and short on a cold night in Cleveland?

My apologies for assuming you used espn.

But either site, you totally bypassed the other passing numbers. Your argument was skewed badly. Agreed?

We ran the ball plenty. We were top ten in terms of balance.

Passes

1st Qtr: 117
1st Down: 208

Runs

1st Qtr: 101
1st Down: 205


Totals
Qtr: 54.7/45.3 - pass
Down: 50.4/49.6 - pass

Compared to the rest of the league....


First Quarter

Vikings - 50/50
Titans: 51.6/48.4
Browns - 51.6/48.4
Bucs - 52/48
Patriots - 52.1/47.9
Raiders - 52.4/47.6
Giants - 52.4/47.5
Falcons - 52.5/47.5
Bills - 52.8/47.2
Jaguars - 53.3/46.7
Broncos - 53.4/46.6
Cowboys - 54.5/45.5
Dolphins - 54.7/45.3
Bengals - 54.7/45.3
Steelers - 54.7/45.3
Jets - 54.7/45.3
Lions - 55.7/44.3
Redskins - 56.5/43.5
Cardinals - 57.4/42.6
Eagles - 57.5/42.5
Rams - 57.6/42.4
Seahawks - 58.4/31.6
49ers - 58.5/41.5
Ravens - 58.7/41.3
Texans - 59.6/40.4
Chiefs - 59.9/40.1
Bears - 60/40
Saints - 60.8/39.2
Chargers - 61.1/38.9
Packers - 61.6/38.4
Colts - 77.4/32.6

First Down

Raiders - 50/50
Steelers - 50.4/49.6
Dolphins - 51/49
Redskins - 51/49
Saints - 51.6/48.4
Cardinals - 51.7/48.3
Ravens - 52.4/47.6
Chiefs - 52.4/47.6
Giants - 52.5/47.5
49ers - 52.8/47.2
Patriots - 53/47
Cowboys - 53/47
Falcons - 53.3/46.7
Chargers - 53.7/46.3
Bengals - 53.8/46.2
Lions - 54/46
Texans- 54.1/45.9
Jaguars - 54.2/45.8
Packers - 54.2/45.8
Eagles - 54.7/45.3
Bucs - 54.8/45.2
Seahawks - 55/45
Vikings - 55.2/44.8
Colts - 56.2/43.8
Titans - 57.6/42.4
Bills - 59.3/40.7
Bears - 61.7/38.3
Browns - 61.9/38.1
Seahawks - 63.3/33.7
Jets - 73.7/26.3

We were tied for 13th in the first quarter and second on first down, only behind the perfectly split Oakland Raiders. That averages out to having us be the 7th most balanced team in the league.

I've talked about the Cleveland game a hundred times on here. Go back and re-read what I've said. I'm not going to repeat myself a hundred more times.

[Chidi29]

This must be your first Arian's thread.

I'm still waiting for examples. Don't deflect.

[HometownGal]

What about his players? Doesn't he owe it to them to put them in the best situations to succeed?

The players make bazillions of dollars to put their BEST efforts on that field each and every time they step onto it. With that turnstile of an OL we've had, what really is the "best situation"? Zu - I'm tellin' ya bud - get that resume in. :drink: ;)

Again I maintain that BA doesn't owe the fans a damned thing and I'm sticking by that statement. Period. You don't have to agree with me but that's the way I've felt all of the years I've been a Steelers fan.

[Chidi29]

Just to clarify, the above numbers are our pass/run numbers on first down and in the first quarter compared to the rest of the league.

[Shea]

I'm still waiting for examples. Don't deflect.

I'm not deflecting at all. And I also don't care about statistics of what other teams do.

I'm only interersted in what the Steelers do.

If I can be sitting at home and predict what the offense is going to do, and what the play will be called, then we have a serious problem, don't ya think?

[Chidi29]

I'm not deflecting at all. And I also don't care about statistics of what other teams do.

I'm only interersted in what the Steelers do.

If I can be sitting at home and predict what the offense is going to do, and what the play will be called, then we have a serious problem, don't ya think?

Balance is somewhat relative. I was using that as a guide to show how we stacked up to other teams. And we stacked up fine. Better than fine, good actually.

It's much easier to ignore the stats than to actual try to create a rebuttal, am I right? I've given out countless stats. Here and on other boards. Check the responses. No one addresses them.

You know why?

Because they can't. Because it would kill their argument. They ignore it, pretending that it's going to go away. I'll keep posting them.

Still waiting for an actual example. If you're so often sitting at home, showing off your clairvoyance to the TV screen, surely you can give me multiple examples of it.

I'm more than willing than to tackle this argument. You just aren't giving me any help.

[X-Terminator]

Again I maintain that BA doesn't owe the fans a damned thing and I'm sticking by that statement. Period. You don't have to agree with me but that's the way I've felt all of the years I've been a Steelers fan.

Exactly. The fans have a right to be entertained; beyond that, the team does not owe them anything.

And Chidi...I still think you should quit now while you still have your marbles, dude. You won't win with the anti-Arians crowd here.

[Shea]

Still waiting for an actual example. If you're so often sitting at home, showing off your clairvoyance to the TV screen, surely you can give me multiple examples of it.

I'm more than willing than to tackle this argument. You just aren't giving me any help.

I don't know what else to tell you. :huh:

If little ole me is sitting at home, and can predict the play-calling, then THAT IS A PROBLEM.

Especially, if there is a trend that shows that play calling to be ineffective and especially costly to a team in the fourth quarter - who is missing Polamalu and Smith - that then goes three and out.

Tick tock ....

You do realize that football has an added enemy beyond the team and it's opponent right?

It's the clock.

(tick tock .... hear it? Maybe not because it's the offseason, but trust me ... it's lurking and will be back!)

[Shea]

Exactly. The fans have a right to be entertained; beyond that, the team does not owe them anything.

And Chidi...I still think you should quit now while you still have your marbles, dude. You won't win with the anti-Arians crowd here.

Why does it have to be a win/lose thing?

It seems to be creating a division among members, why?

It's a football forum, this is what it's all about.

[Chidi29]

You don't know what else to tell me? Really?

I'm speechless at this point.

It's a very simple concept.

1. You make a claim.
2. I ask you to back up that claim with examples.
3. You (should) provide examples.
4. I (should) respond to those.

Every time I've put the heat on about examples, you deflect. Or take the Dan Gilbert route and go all caps lock.

Your claim has zero credibility.

[X-Terminator]

Why does it have to be a win/lose thing?

It seems to be creating a division among members, why?

It's a football forum, this is what it's all about.

He's said he's won these arguments on other forums, so I'm going off that. Over here, I don't think he's going to change anyone's mind who is anti-Arians. They are too entrenched in their opinions to have an open mind. I personally refuse to enter any arguments about Arians because all I'd be doing is beating my head against the wall. It's much easier peeking in the door.

[Shea]

You don't know what else to tell me? Really?

I'm speechless at this point.

It's a very simple concept.

1. You make a claim.
2. I ask you to back up that claim with examples.
3. You (should) provide examples.
4. I (should) respond to those.

Every time I've put the heat on about examples, you deflect. Or take the Dan Gilbert route and go all caps lock.

Your claim has zero credibility.

Oh my God ...

I'm officially fucking lost here.

What are you looking for me to say?

My point is ... and read closely since you can't grasp it yet ...

If I can predict the play calling sitting at home, then we are screwed.

If in that, predicting the play calling, which is proven over and over again to be ineffective, is twice as baffling.

What the fuck am I'm missing here??

Arians is skating on thin ice, as he should be, and hopefully this will all be mute next year if he changes his philosophy, and creates a more balanced offense while losing his predictability.

[Shea]

He's said he's won these arguments on other forums, so I'm going off that. Over here, I don't think he's going to change anyone's mind who is anti-Arians. They are too entrenched in their opinions to have an open mind. I personally refuse to enter any arguments about Arians because all I'd be doing is beating my head against the wall. It's much easier peeking in the door.

Can you see how you guys on the other side might be viewed in the same light?

[tony hipchest]

chidi really cant 'win' this argument for 1 very simple fact-

arians WILL run the ball more than 42% of the time this year.

why? because his boss told him to do so. i dont care what bruce says otherewise.

because if he doesnt, he will no longer be employed with the steelers.

as for the stats... stats schamatts. heres a stat. a bruce arians offense is incapable of scoring more than 5 td's in a single game. and even that has only happened several times. that is pathetic. even a blind squirrel finds a nut, espicially when you look at all the scrub bottom dwellers we have faced in the past 3 years.

[Chidi29]

Oh my God ...

I'm officially fucking lost here.

What are you looking for me to say?



Provide specific play(s) in which you have predicted what we are going to do. I have asked you to do so, and you have not.

[Chidi29]

chidi really cant 'win' this argument for 1 very simple fact-

arians WILL run the ball more than 42% of the time this year.

why? because his boss told him to do so. i dont care what bruce says otherewise.

because if he doesnt, he will no longer be employed with the steelers.

as for the stats... stats schamatts. heres a stat. a bruce arians offense is incapable of scoring more than 5 td's in a single game. and even that has only happened several times. that is pathetic. even a blind squirrel finds a nut, espicially when you look at all the scrub bottom dwellers we have faced in the past 3 years.

We will run more with Ben out. But when he comes back, I could see the 50/50 split we were having last year.

[X-Terminator]

Can you see how you guys on the other side might be viewed in the same light?

Most of those who support Arians have also acknowledged that he has deficiencies and have pointed them out...maybe not so much here but definitely on the other board. That alone makes them more open-minded than most who do not support Arians. I don't know how many times I've said that his red-zone and short yardage playcalling has to improve next year. I just won't throw him under the bus and then run him over, blaming him for all of the ills of the offense. The others who support Arians think the same thing.

Anyway, the order has come down from the boss man himself to run the ball more and more effectively. So it has been written, so it shall come to pass.

[Shea]

Most of those who support Arians have also acknowledged that he has deficiencies and have pointed them out...maybe not so much here but definitely on the other board. That alone makes them more open-minded than most who do not support Arians. I don't know how many times I've said that his red-zone and short yardage playcalling has to improve next year. I just won't throw him under the bus and then run him over, blaming him for all of the ills of the offense. The others who support Arians think the same thing.

I guess what I'm trying to convey is within the bolded part of your post.

I get what you are saying and don't believe that you are deliberately going after people to offend, but posts like this, and like those of the same on the other side, seem to have created an animosity and a division amongst members.

Would be nice if that all went away, and we could just talk about our teams we all love and appreciate the opposite opinions of others.

Not only within this discussion but within the political part of the forum as well.

[tony hipchest]

the boss never said to run it more effectively.

thats just what arians heard. :noidea:

[Chidi29]

the boss never said to run it more effectively.

thats just what arians heard. :noidea:

What are you talking about? You just posted his quote.

"....need to get better at running the football."

better = more effective

[tony hipchest]

We will run more with Ben out. But when he comes back, I could see the 50/50 split we were having last year.a 50-50 split would be great.

hell even 45% run vs 55% pass would be sufficient.

see, i have done my own research. 3 more runs a game is about all it would take. even if they are for no gain, that kills 2:15 off the clock. that alone woulda won us about 2-3 more games last year.

4 things can happen when you drop back to attempt a pass (choosing not to run) and 3 of them arent good.

completion
incompletion
interception
sack

[Chidi29]

a 50-50 split would be great.

hell even 45% run vs 55% pass would be sufficient.

see, i have done my own research. 3 more runs a game is about all it would take. even if they are for no gain, that kills 2:15 off the clock. that alone woulda won us about 2-3 more games last year.

4 things can happen when you drop back to attempt a pass (choosing not to run) and 3 of them arent good.

completion
incompletion
interception
sack

And the 50/50 split happened on first down. And we were average when it came to our split in the first quarter.

[tony hipchest]

What are you talking about? You just posted his quote.

"....need to get better at running the football."

better = more effective

now put it back into context. he was talking about the coaches, not the players.

the players are fine. we could have faneca, or flozell, or any other free agent out there we wanted. it is an uncapped year.

instead the steelers fired coaches and put others on notice, and instructed said coaches to get the younger (and talented) players involved more quickly.

management has clearly spoken with their actions. this is not a talent or execution issue, it is an effectiveness of calling plays and gameplanning issue.

arians is simply trying to deflect blame onto his players.

its kinda chicken shit if you ask me. atleast tomlin stood up, accepted all blame and said it begins and ends with him. now that is the type of accountability i can accept (even in failure).

and chidi, perhaps you are not familiar enough with my posts or stances but until the middle of last year, revs and i were probably 2 of the most vocal arians supporters.

but even the strongest camel can only carry so much straw.

im also on record saying im glad arians was given one final chance, but make no mistake... this IS his final chance.

[tony hipchest]

And the 50/50 split happened on first down. And we were average when it came to our split in the first quarter.



:yawn: i dont care much about the 1st quarter. you can make these stats say all you want but an arians led offens has failed to hold more 10 point leads in a single year than cowher and a myriad of offensive coordinaters were able to accomplish in 1 years.

the difference wasnt the defense or its philosophy.

the key factor is/was arians not knowing how to control the clock.

it is the coaches who execute clock management with their play calling. at some point the players just play and the coaches have to coach.

[Wallace108]

the difference wasnt the defense or its philosophy.

the key factor is/was arians not knowing how to control the clock.

I tried making this point last season ...
I'm too lazy to look up stats, so all I have to go on is my own perception. It seemed like we consistently had short possessions (3-and-outs, maybe a first down or two then punt ... or we scored quickly). There was no ball control, which put our defense on the field for way too long. They looked worn out by the fourth quarter.

[tony hipchest]

I tried making this point last season ...
I'm too lazy to look up stats, so all I have to go on is my own perception. It seemed like we consistently had short possessions (3-and-outs, maybe a first down or two then punt ... or we scored quickly). There was no ball control, which put our defense on the field for way too long. They looked worn out by the fourth quarter.this will automatically be met with the fact that we were near the top of the league in TOP but troy polamalu agree's with you and dino has done some excellent research to show our TOP in the 2nd half had a significant drop off.

we shoulda held the ball for 35 minutes and led the league.

[Wallace108]

this will automatically be met with the fact that we were near the top of the league in TOP but troy polamalu agree's with you and dino has done some excellent research to show our TOP in the 2nd half had a significant drop off.

we shoulda held the ball for 35 minutes and led the league.

Yeah, I now see that we ranked near the top in TOP, so I guess my perception isn't too reliable. :lol:
But the whole league has gone pass-happy, so I'm not sure how much that means. Maybe if we would have controlled the ball even more our defense would have been fresher in the fourth. :noidea:
Either way, the best way to keep the other team's offense from scoring in the fourth is to keep them off the field and grind out the clock ...

[Chidi29]

now put it back into context. he was talking about the coaches, not the players.

the players are fine. we could have faneca, or flozell, or any other free agent out there we wanted. it is an uncapped year.

instead the steelers fired coaches and put others on notice, and instructed said coaches to get the younger (and talented) players involved more quickly.

management has clearly spoken with their actions. this is not a talent or execution issue, it is an effectiveness of calling plays and gameplanning issue.

arians is simply trying to deflect blame onto his players.

its kinda chicken shit if you ask me. atleast tomlin stood up, accepted all blame and said it begins and ends with him. now that is the type of accountability i can accept (even in failure).

and chidi, perhaps you are not familiar enough with my posts or stances but until the middle of last year, revs and i were probably 2 of the most vocal arians supporters.

but even the strongest camel can only carry so much straw.

im also on record saying im glad arians was given one final chance, but make no mistake... this IS his final chance.

No, all he said was "we". That is everyone, including the players. You're grasping at more straws than that camel.

[Chidi29]

:yawn: i dont care much about the 1st quarter. you can make these stats say all you want but an arians led offens has failed to hold more 10 point leads in a single year than cowher and a myriad of offensive coordinaters were able to accomplish in 1 years.

the difference wasnt the defense or its philosophy.

the key factor is/was arians not knowing how to control the clock.

it is the coaches who execute clock management with their play calling. at some point the players just play and the coaches have to coach.

As pointed out, our TOP was just fine. Just as good, if not better, than the numbers Whiz had.

Those stats are important becauuve they show mindset. For the most part, they take the score out of the equation. Our mindset was a balanced one. Not a pass happy one like what people seem to think.

[Chidi29]

this will automatically be met with the fact that we were near the top of the league in TOP but troy polamalu agree's with you and dino has done some excellent research to show our TOP in the 2nd half had a significant drop off.

we shoulda held the ball for 35 minutes and led the league.

Anyone got a link to dino's research?

And I love how only the stats that put Arians in a negative light are considered "excellent".

[tony hipchest]

No, all he said was "we". That is everyone, including the players. You're grasping at more straws than that camel.thats because HE (as the owner) is being accountable (unlike the offensive coordinator).

a good leader never deflects blame, he absorbs it, quickly rectifies the situation, and moves on.

people really need to learn to read in between the lines and dig a little deeper rather than accepting whatever "lies" on the surface.

[Chidi29]

thats because HE (as the owner) is being accountable (unlike the offensive coordinator).

a good leader never deflects blame, he absorbs it, quickly rectifies the situation, and moves on.

people really need to learn to read in between the lines and dig a little deeper rather than accepting whatever "lies" on the surface.

And Arians said "we" too. He said how "we" let down the defense. He's holding him and his offense accountable. Maybe not to the extent Tomlin has, where Tomlin has thrown himself in front of the bus for guys (There's no debate that Tomlin is a better leader than Arians), but you're again overanalyzing it. You're seeing things that aren't there and passing it off as reading between the lines.

None of this solves the issue of whether or not he is a competent OC either.

[SteelMember]

I said that he does have some input in these matters, but the final decision does not lie with him. The final decisions come down to Tomlin and Colbert (for draft matters). Do you disagree with that idea?

The inverse of that is true. If we actually had a blocking fullback,, maybe we'd have a part of the playbook for him.

Do you want to be an I-Form offense with a fullback that can't block? That's putting a square peg in a round hole.

As far as draft matters, I would agree that those "final" decisions are made by the higher ups (Tomlin and Colbert). Even then, we have to also agree that they are basing much to their information from scouts, position coaches and others who have more expertise in evaluating a players skills. While they may have a certain eye for some things, I'm sure they both would agree that they don't know everything, and would leave certain aspects to those who get paid to do a specific job.

To the second point... As I stated, and Arians has also admitted the same, his playbook does not include a FB and never has. The point being, if we had an OC that was running a different scheme, west coast offense let's say, that the coach that was hired to run the offense would have a say in the personnel his plays demanded. Even then, coaches think up new shit, or integrate different ideas (wildcat) into their package all the time. Apparently, Bruce will not be bothered into thinking his playbook can be altered. He just comes off with that type of arrogance concerning the matter.

In a few weeks the pre-season will be coming to and end, and all of the coaches will be sitting around a table deciding on almost 100 players futures with the team. There will be position coaches verbally battling to keep guys they like, but in the end Arians has to like the guy and how they fit into his scheme. If there is no need for a FB, simply no FB will be retained. He prefers the H-back. That's why we have about 4 of them in camp. His schemes require more TE's... so that's what we get.

I'm sure Tomlin would have no problem accepting a FB if his coach said he needed one. He would probably prefer one that could also contribute on special teams, but I don't think that alone would hamper the decision to acquire one. I'm sure if he saw an improvement in the short yardage alone, he'd probably think it was a great idea and say he was glad "he" thought of it. :noidea: :chuckle:

Just to clarify, I don't think Arians is totally incompetant. I believe the red-zone offense struggles... and that in turn becomes a short yardage issue in most cases, and therefore my advocation of integrating a FB.

[SteelGhost]

Woah, let's back it up. Don't put words in my mouth.

I said the argument is illogical. Not the person. Big difference.

He can't modify to having a blocking fullback when none of the players have those skills. Did you see how bad Frank Summers' blocking was the first few weeks? Did you want us to continue with that all year long with Carey Davis?

To be clear, I'm not attacking anyone personally. I don't dislike someone becauve they are for/against/indifferent of Arians. I want to make it clear that I haven't attacked anyone personally. I'm not insulting anyone's opinion. I do respect it. I just disagree with it, and because of my stubborness, will never stop hitting the "Reply" button.

Ok Chidi, let's leave it rest in peace (the discussion that is) I see your point, I agree Summers and Davis are not that good at blocking.

Cheers

[MasterOfPuppets]

As pointed out, our TOP was just fine. Just as good, if not better, than the numbers Whiz had.

Those stats are important becauuve they show mindset. For the most part, they take the score out of the equation. Our mindset was a balanced one. Not a pass happy one like what people seem to think.

stats show mindset ? stats are deceiving.... you look at that time of possession stat and think it paints a picture of what the offense did. what that stat doesn't show is what the special teams and defense did.

special teams - give a team a short field or quick 6 and what happens ? your offense gets the ball back quicker to pad that TOP stat ... did our ST suck and give short fields often ? yup.
defense - give up big plays equals quick scoring drives, which also puts the ball back into your offenses hands. did our D give up big ones...a 3 play 60 yard drive is obviously not going to eat up as much time as an 8 play 60 yd drive. turnovers are also a big factor in TOP

here's another example of deceiving stats ...

jerome bettis - 20 att / 100 yds / 5 ypc avg
barry sanders - 20 att / 100 yds / 5 ypc avg

if you just look at the stats one would think their games went pretty much the same, as if they were for the most part ripping off 5 yds or so per attempt. what the stats doesn't show is that sanders gained 75 % of his yards on 1 carry and lost yardage or gained nothing on 10 others, and more importantly only picked up 3 first downs the whole game. on the other hand bettis might have 10 - 12 runs between 5 and 10 yds and moved the chains 10 times in his game.

i myself think ACTUALLY WATCHING THE GAMES gives a better perspective than looking at stats when it comes to forming an opinion of how it all went down.

[Chidi29]

As far as draft matters, I would agree that those "final" decisions are made by the higher ups (Tomlin and Colbert). Even then, we have to also agree that they are basing much to their information from scouts, position coaches and others who have more expertise in evaluating a players skills. While they may have a certain eye for some things, I'm sure they both would agree that they don't know everything, and would leave certain aspects to those who get paid to do a specific job.

To the second point... As I stated, and Arians has also admitted the same, his playbook does not include a FB and never has. The point being, if we had an OC that was running a different scheme, west coast offense let's say, that the coach that was hired to run the offense would have a say in the personnel his plays demanded. Even then, coaches think up new shit, or integrate different ideas (wildcat) into their package all the time. Apparently, Bruce will not be bothered into thinking his playbook can be altered. He just comes off with that type of arrogance concerning the matter.

In a few weeks the pre-season will be coming to and end, and all of the coaches will be sitting around a table deciding on almost 100 players futures with the team. There will be position coaches verbally battling to keep guys they like, but in the end Arians has to like the guy and how they fit into his scheme. If there is no need for a FB, simply no FB will be retained. He prefers the H-back. That's why we have about 4 of them in camp. His schemes require more TE's... so that's what we get.

I'm sure Tomlin would have no problem accepting a FB if his coach said he needed one. He would probably prefer one that could also contribute on special teams, but I don't think that alone would hamper the decision to acquire one. I'm sure if he saw an improvement in the short yardage alone, he'd probably think it was a great idea and say he was glad "he" thought of it. :noidea: :chuckle:

Just to clarify, I don't think Arians is totally incompetant. I believe the red-zone offense struggles... and that in turn becomes a short yardage issue in most cases, and therefore my advocation of integrating a FB.

And those certain people are scouts (Which you mentioned). It was guys like Bill Nunn, a scout, that helped build the team in the 70s. Not the postional coaches.

Even if Bruce is as stubborn as everyone thinks he is, the bottomline is that he can be forced to change. Tomlin has never had a conversation with Kevin that went like this:

MT: You know, I like this John Connor kid. Good blocking fullback.
KC: Me too.
MT: Wait, Bruce said he doesn't want to use a fullback.
KC: You're right. Guess we won't draft Connor. Too bad.

And like I said, David Johnson was used as a FB in same situations last year. That point continues to be ignored. Is Arians a big FB guy in general? No, that's pretty clear. He's always been a high-flying offenve kind of guy. That happens when you get to mold
Peyton Manning.

Either Tomlin is fine with the lack of a fullback or he is a crappy coach who isn't assertive enough to run the team. I'm betting on the former. If Tomlin told Arians they were going to use a FB and Arians went on a tantrum, he would have been let go.

[Chidi29]

stats show mindset ? stats are deceiving.... you look at that time of possession stat and think it paints a picture of what the offense did. what that stat doesn't show is what the special teams and defense did.

special teams - give a team a short field or quick 6 and what happens ? your offense gets the ball back quicker to pad that TOP stat ... did our ST suck and give short fields often ? yup.
defense - give up big plays equals quick scoring drives, which also puts the ball back into your offenses hands. did our D give up big ones...a 3 play 60 yard drive is obviously not going to eat up as much time as an 8 play 60 yd drive. turnovers are also a big factor in TOP

here's another example of deceiving stats ...

jerome bettis - 20 att / 100 yds / 5 ypc avg
barry sanders - 20 att / 100 yds / 5 ypc avg

if you just look at the stats one would think their games went pretty much the same, as if they were for the most part ripping off 5 yds or so per attempt. what the stats doesn't show is that sanders gained 75 % of his yards on 1 carry and lost yardage or gained nothing on 10 others, and more importantly only picked up 3 first downs the whole game. on the other hand bettis might have 10 - 12 runs between 5 and 10 yds and moved the chains 10 times in his game.

i myself think ACTUALLY WATCHING THE GAMES gives a better perspective than looking at stats when it comes to forming an opinion of how it all went down.

I never said stats are infalliable. If they can be refuted, usually with other stats, then they can be proved wrong. Just as you showed in both your examples. In the first one, you'd be using average drive start numbers. In the second, you'd be selecting the 75 yard run to counter the point. You're using numbers to refute other numbers.

If you can refute my study with other numbers, then my study will have been proven wrong. Feel free to do so.

And yes, these stats show mindset. A heck of a lot better than taking overall numbers. I'm taking numbers that limit the effect of the score. 1st down limits, doesn't eliminate mind you, the chances of a team being forced to run or pass. Because on a 3rd and long, you're of course going to pass. And 1st quarter is a great barometer because the score is usually close and you don't have to run or pass. Plus, most teams have their first 15 plays scripted. It isn't a perfect system, but better than taking overall totals and getting data like a 58/42 split.

I look forward to you countering these numbers.

[tony hipchest]

1st bolded point: And that's all the FO has asked for all this time. That somehow got turned into "Run the ball more" by the media. Not the case.


We didn't run the ball once on 3rd and 3? That statement means one of two things.

1. The guy is lying.
2. He is being ultra-specific and trying to manipulate. When I read that, I think 3rd and 3 or closer. This would include 3rd and 1 and 3rd and 2. Most people would think the same. And we have run the ball on 3rd and 3 or closer. Multiple times.3 points here have already been debunked. that is not what the FO asked for. that is arians interpretation of what he heard. Art rooney did say to run the ball more. more consistantly. that means more and with more regularity. it is what it is. and the dude wasnt lying. trying to bend the stats doesnt make it any different than what it is = ZERO rush attempts on 3rd and 3 = predictable = telegraphing.


I'm pretty confident I can win. Very experienced in fighting this battle. Did so for a long time on another board. your point has already been debunked. im not sure what you are trying to win. :noidea:


Boring the other person to death with a sea of long posts and number crunching is still a win in my book. :lol: not realy. its just boring deflection, in everybody elses book.

finally the assertion that stats show "mindset" is pure hogwash. the team who leads the league in turnovers does NOT have a mindset to turn the ball over.

mindset is established by the coaches when putting together the playbook, establishing a gameplan, and implementing it in practice.

what kind of "mindset" do you think was set when arians and ben sat down to streamline the playbook and threw out the Power-G (steelers "bread and butter" play for 15 years)?

if you wanna talk mindset, lets talk about the jets capabilities to run the ball last year vs the steelers. lets talk about the steelers able to offensively put the seahawks away in the SB as opposed to the #1 defense letting the cardinals creep back into it. lets talk about all the players saying they are actually focusing on the run game this year in mini-camps (something they practically abandoned last season).

we can put it all on tomlins shoulders but ultimately it is the offensive coordinators job to coordinate the offense. if he doesnt need to micromanage dick lebea, he sure as hell shouldnt have to do so with arians.

most importantly, the owner (who is a freaking lawyer by trade) shouldnt be forced to stand up and tell them what the hell to do.

[Wallace108]

stats show mindset ? stats are deceiving.... you look at that time of possession stat and think it paints a picture of what the offense did. what that stat doesn't show is what the special teams and defense did.

special teams - give a team a short field or quick 6 and what happens ? your offense gets the ball back quicker to pad that TOP stat ... did our ST suck and give short fields often ? yup.
defense - give up big plays equals quick scoring drives, which also puts the ball back into your offenses hands. did our D give up big ones...a 3 play 60 yard drive is obviously not going to eat up as much time as an 8 play 60 yd drive. turnovers are also a big factor in TOP

here's another example of deceiving stats ...

jerome bettis - 20 att / 100 yds / 5 ypc avg
barry sanders - 20 att / 100 yds / 5 ypc avg

if you just look at the stats one would think their games went pretty much the same, as if they were for the most part ripping off 5 yds or so per attempt. what the stats doesn't show is that sanders gained 75 % of his yards on 1 carry and lost yardage or gained nothing on 10 others, and more importantly only picked up 3 first downs the whole game. on the other hand bettis might have 10 - 12 runs between 5 and 10 yds and moved the chains 10 times in his game.

i myself think ACTUALLY WATCHING THE GAMES gives a better perspective than looking at stats when it comes to forming an opinion of how it all went down.

MOP, you did a better job of proving my point than I did. :chuckle:
I've never been a big fan of stats. In '02, the Texans mustered only 47 yards and 3 first downs on offense against the Steelers. All the stats pointed to the Steelers dominating the Texans. But the Texans won 24-6.

Even though the stats show that the Steelers finished near the top of TOP last season, that isn't the perception I got while watching the games. Regardless of what the stats say, our offense couldn't control the ball and constantly put our defense in the position of having to win the game.

[Chidi29]

3 points here have already been debunked. that is not what the FO asked for. that is arians interpretation of what he heard. Art rooney did say to run the ball more. more consistantly. that means more and with more regularity. it is what it is. and the dude wasnt lying. trying to bend the stats doesnt make it any different than what it is = ZERO rush attempts on 3rd and 3 = predictable = telegraphing.

your point has already been debunked. im not sure what you are trying to win. :noidea:

not realy. its just boring deflection, in everybody elses book.

finally the assertion that stats show "mindset" is pure hogwash. the team who leads the league in turnovers does NOT have a mindset to turn the ball over.

mindset is established by the coaches when putting together the playbook, establishing a gameplan, and implementing it in practice.

what kind of "mindset" do you think was set when arians and ben sat down to streamline the playbook and threw out the Power-G (steelers "bread and butter" play for 15 years)?

if you wanna talk mindset, lets talk about the jets capabilities to run the ball last year vs the steelers. lets talk about the steelers able to offensively put the seahawks away in the SB as opposed to the #1 defense letting the cardinals creep back into it. lets talk about all the players saying they are actually focusing on the run game this year in mini-camps (something they practically abandoned last season).

we can put it all on tomlins shoulders but ultimately it is the offensive coordinators job to coordinate the offense. if he doesnt need to micromanage dick lebea, he sure as hell shouldnt have to do so with arians.

most importantly, the owner (who is a freaking lawyer by trade) shouldnt be forced to stand up and tell them what the hell to do.

And he said to run the ball better. Arians said nothing that Art didn't say. Consistency can, but is not exlcusive, to more often. I could run the ball once each quarter or I could run the ball four times in a row. The latter is more consistent while the overall numbers are equal.

Once again, you're using hyperbole to describe my stats. No one is intentionally trying to turn the ball over. Teams are intentionally trying to run or pass the ball. The stats are fine to use.

If your definition of mindset was correct, then none of us could say what his mindset was since we're not there in those situations. If you run the ball early in games, you're committed to the run. If you pass, you're committed to the pass. It's a simple concept.

Why are you talking about the defense? What does that have to do with Arians?

[tony hipchest]

actually, im talking about "mindset", smashmouth football, and why the power-g was dropped from the playbook. a point you seem unwilling to refute or even acknowledge. and dont try the lame excuse that we got rid of faneca.

the steelers actually ran it a few times last year with kemoeatu, having great success. no wonder the jets wanted to sign him in FA. they must have an OC who is more equipped to utilize his talents.

instead of deflecting and using diversion and crying "hyperbole" why do you refuse to even address a single valid point that i have brought to the table in this thread?

is it because you have already hitched your wagon to the capability to boring everyone into submission?

it doesnt matter. i guarantee you that if arians tries to throw this bullshit excuse into the face of art II, he will find himself unemployed in about 7 months-


I could run the ball once each quarter or I could run the ball four times in a row. The latter is more consistent while the overall numbers are equal.

its not about "overall numbers". its about points on the board.

is it just a coincidence you favor the 1st quarter numbers when there are no points on the board?

= argument inherently flawed. youre trying to take out the most decisive factor in determining the outcome of a game and offensive production, to prove your point.

[Chidi29]

actually, im talking about "mindset", smashmouth football, and why the power-g was dropped from the playbook. a point you seem unwilling to refute or even acknowledge. and dont try the lame excuse that we got rid of faneca.

the steelers actually ran it a few times last year with kemoeatu, having great success. no wonder the jets wanted to sign him in FA. they must have an OC who is more equipped to utilize his talents.

instead of deflecting and using diversion and crying "hyperbole" why do you refuse to even address a single valid point that i have brought to the table in this thread?

is it because you have already hitched your wagon to the capability to boring everyone into submission?

it doesnt matter. i guarantee you that if arians tries to throw this bullshit excuse into the face of art II, he will find himself unemployed in about 7 months-



its not about "overall numbers". its about points on the board.

is it just a coincidence you favor the 1st quarter numbers when there are no points on the board?

= argument inherently flawed. youre trying to take out the most decisive factor in determining the outcome of a game and offensive production, to prove your point.

First, you say the power-g was dropped from the playbook. Then you say we ran it a couple times last year. Which is it? Can't be both.

But to answer your question, if I understand the scheme correctly, a regular trap block was a lot more successful for us. A lack of athletic guards outside of Kemoeatu hurts us as well. And it appears this works best with a solid blocking fullback (something we had in our smashmouth days, but not something we have now).

The thought that I haven't addressed your points is just plan laughable. I've responded to nearly every post on here. Iff anything, it's been multiple of my points that have been ignored.

We're not talking about points. The mindset argument has nothing to do with points. It has everything to do with committment to the passing or running game. That's all I've talked about. In fact, I agree we need to score more points. Never have I said that the number of points we've scored is acceptable. Like what fansince'76 said, I don't treat Arians as perfect. I don't even regard him as a great OC. And I've been quick to point out the mistakes he has made.

The committment to the running game is the only point I've made in regards to those numbers. And it shows more balance than the majority of teams in the league. I used the first quarter to eliminate the points factor. Because, as I've stated, if you're down big in the 4th quarter, you're going to throw. If you're up, you're going to run. It doesn't matter what kind of OC you are.

[tony hipchest]

First, you say the power-g was dropped from the playbook. Then you say we ran it a couple times last year. Which is it? Can't be both.

sure it can, but dont take it so literal. im sure its still there somewhere buried in the 1000 play playbook him and ben trimmed down. it is a very popular run play and many teams use it. some more frequently than others. the point is it has been virtually non existant in the game plans of the steelers for the past 2 years and several players in camp last year admitted they didnt even practice it no more.

even if it were ripped out and tossed onto the christmas eve yule log, it could be brought back at any point and time. just like players on the roster.

foote, mcfadden, leftwich and randle el were all allowed to walk out the door.

i am certain that with el back we will dust off and practice a few of those trick plays and wr options/end arounds that he excel's at.

the point is we have run less because we wernt committed to it, not because we cant. losing faneca hurt, but dumping a full back, larry Z sucking as a coach, and arians lack of commitment and coonsistancey hurt more.

expect to see that rectified this season. end stats will show that we run more.

[Craic]

I still find it fascinating that there is more evidence that Ben did commit a crime in Georgia, than there is that Arians was on the chopping block. Yet, the former most deny while the latter most accept.

"Logic, what do they teach in schools these days"
-Professor Kirke
Chronicles of Narnia

[tony hipchest]

sometimes common sense defies logic preacher. what is logical isnt always truth or fact.

[Chidi29]

sure it can, but dont take it so literal. im sure its still there somewhere buried in the 1000 play playbook him and ben trimmed down. it is a very popular run play and many teams use it. some more frequently than others. the point is it has been virtually non existant in the game plans of the steelers for the past 2 years and several players in camp last year admitted they didnt even practice it no more.

even if it were ripped out and tossed onto the christmas eve yule log, it could be brought back at any point and time. just like players on the roster.

foote, mcfadden, leftwich and randle el were all allowed to walk out the door.

i am certain that with el back we will dust off and practice a few of those trick plays and wr options/end arounds that he excel's at.

the point is we have run less because we wernt committed to it, not because we cant. losing faneca hurt, but dumping a full back, larry Z sucking as a coach, and arians lack of commitment and coonsistancey hurt more.

expect to see that rectified this season. end stats will show that we run more.

We'll see if it comes back or not. It'd be nice to have a second tight end that could block better. That way we can run it to either side. From my understanding of the play, the tackle seals down. When he run it to Spaeth's side, we have him crash down because he's such a bad blocker in space.

Are we committed to the run as much as we were with Whiz? Of course not, the numbers prove that. But that doesn't mean we're an "always pass" or pass happy offense. As I've shown, we're more balanced than most or at worst, showing the same trend as other teams (That is, passing more often).

We have run less because we paid Ben $100 million. Because we drafted and groomed Holmes. Because we have an asset like Heath. Because Wallace had a breakout year. You don't play smashmouth football when you're paying your QB top dollar. Is it a shock that Heath was used a lot more last year after signing a $40 million deal? Nope. It shouldn't be a shock that when you play your QB as much as anyone, you're going to use him as much as anyone.

[tony hipchest]

heres a clip from a really good article written before the SB-


But if the Steelers are going to harken back to the days when they could run against any defense, it will likely be in part because of their G-Power run. It was their favorite play when Faneca was the left guard and, even without Faneca, it's still a key part of Pittsburgh's playbook.

The play involves Steelers left guard Chris Kemoeatu (http://superbowl.fanhouse.com/tag/ChrisKemoeatu/) pulling to lead tailback Willie Parker into the hole. If the rest of the line does their job, then Kemoeatu is meeting an inside linebacker in the hole -- a battle he should win -- and Parker is going for a long gain.

http://www.blogcdn.com/superbowl.fanhouse.com/media/2009/01/steelersgpower.jpg
When it works, Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians (http://superbowl.fanhouse.com/tag/BruceArians/) will call it over and over. In fact, against the Browns in Week Two, the Steelers ran the G-Power 13 times out of 29 running plays (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/09/16/between-the-lines-steelers-use-blunt-force-to-beat-browns/) with plenty of success. There's nothing really deceptive about the play, it's more of a baseball bat to the head, over and over, as you can see it coming. But if it's blocked properly, it's still tough to stop.

The Steelers will run this play out of many different formations. While I illustrated it with the Steelers in a two tight end formation, Pittsburgh will run it out of almost any formation, including ones where Heath Miller (No. 83) lines up as an H-back or fullback in motion. But wherever he lines up, Miller's block is a key to the play's success. He has to control the outside linebacker, ideally by driving him to the outside, which creates a logjam that helps ensure that the cornerback can not come over to help out in run support. But if the linebacker tries to knife inside of Miller to blow up the play, he can simply use the linebackers momentum, drive him inside and let Kemoeatu pull around to his outside.

The other key block, depending on the defense's formation is that of right guard Darnell Stapleton (http://superbowl.fanhouse.com/tag/DarnellStapleton/) (No. 72) or right tackle Willie Colon (http://superbowl.fanhouse.com/tag/WillieColon/) (No. 74). One of those two has to get a block on the play-side inside linebacker. If defensive end Darnell Dockett (http://superbowl.fanhouse.com/tag/DarnellDockett/) (No. 90) is lined up where Stapleton can reach him, Stapleton blocks him while Colon picks up the linebacker. But if Dockett is too far to the outside for Stapleton to reach him, than Colon will block Dockett while Stapleton handles the linebacker. Depending on the play, either of them may be asked to double team one of the defensive linemen first before going downfield to block the linebackers.

If they all do their job, this is one of the Steelers' best bets at a big running play.

http://superbowl.fanhouse.com/2009/01/30/anatomy-of-a-play-steelers-g-power/

why he has gotten away from this beats me. i know we have a $100,000,000 qb but when youre missing key components you need to adjust your game and quit being greedy. we saw plenty of other teams defensively make half time adjustments. it seems like arians wouldnt.

[Chidi29]

heres a clip from a really good article written before the SB-



http://superbowl.fanhouse.com/2009/01/30/anatomy-of-a-play-steelers-g-power/

why he has gotten away from this beats me. i know we have a $100,000,000 qb but when youre missing key components you need to adjust your game and quit being greedy. we saw plenty of other teams defensively make half time adjustments. it seems like arians wouldnt.

Are you sure we've gotten away from that? That looks very similar to plays we ran this year. You know we pull Kemoeatu all the time and Essex and Colon always sealed down. Sometimes we'd run it between the guard and tackle (C gap?), but that doesn't look a lot different to what we ran.

[tony hipchest]

yeah, im sure. it would take one hell of a stat geek to try and prove otherwise, but the results and what is on tape (not paper) doesnt lie.

TE....T....G.....C....G....T....TE
..^C^^B^^A^^A^^B^^C^.. (gap diagram)

alot of the runs dont look much different, especially on tv from couch. to the untrained eye its either up the middle or to the outside. unfortunatley i dont have access to the coaches tapes and endzone views (only accessible to NFL employees) so i have to trust the analysis and breakdowns of those who do.

transcripts to radio interviews or television breakdown shows also arent provided, so i cant specifically cite cowher, jaws and merril, sharpe and baldinger, or tim and pat.

last year in camp, (again, i dont have access to personally view the practices in camp so must rely on what i am told) multiple linemen said the g-power was essentially like a ghost. starks, colon, hartwig, and kemo all gave interviews.

i kinda gotta go with what they say, being that they live it, practice it, and excecute it on a daily basis.

in 2 weeks tim and pat will be spending 2 days at steelers camp conducting their show (culminating with the aug 6 friday night goaline scrimmage ).

i would suggest anyone who doesnt have access, to subscribe to the free sirius radio internet trial.

it is the best 8 hours of pure steelers interviews and X&O's talk you will hear all year. no fluff, no bs analysis.

tim and pat are both HUGE 'in the trenches" guys and they will most certainly be asking all the main players what the run game and phiosophy will look like going into this season.

if kugler has the gag order removed, we will likely hear one of his 1st interviews granted to them.

[Chidi29]

I don't think you could prove that statistically. I'm just going off of what I've seen when watching and re-watching the games.

I know for a fact that I pointed out a play very similar to the one shown above against Chicago. Mendenhall had a big run by that design.

http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=pit&tid=5471069&lid=7

It's the first point.

And I know we pull Kemoeatu all the time. It's the running play we go to most often. It may not be a G block like shown above, though it looks pretty similar, but parts of that design are still very much in our playbook. I get what you're saying about how difficult it can be to pick up a scheme while watching it on TV, but I do my best to pick those kind of things up when I rewatch the games. Have a super slow-mo button so it works out pretty well.

Don't listen to much radio but that sounds pretty sweet.

[tony hipchest]

Don't listen to much radio but that sounds pretty sweet.here you go then-

http://www.sirius.com/freetrial/register

i listen all day at work on the internet from my computer (and then about 1 to 2 hrs/day in transit on radio).

if i was recommending anyone to use the 7 day free trial above it would be either during the week tim and pat are broadcasting live from latrobe for 2 days, or superbowl week, where there are easilly close to 150 past/present player and coach interviews.

beware... its addicting. tomlin, woodley, and clark all have 10-15 minute spots weekley during the season, and you get to hear tunch and hilgrove call every game.

[polamalubeast]

http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=657944


Steelers | Want Rashard Mendenhall to improve in short yardage
Pittsburgh Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said RB Rashard Mendenhall does well in goal line situations but wants Mendenhall to improve in short yardage situations, reports Mark Kaboly, of the McKeesport Daily News. "Some guys have to learn that they aren't running for a touchdown. We need a yard. Rashard did a good job on goal line, but not as good a job on short yardage. That will again be an emphasis in training camp," Arians said.

2010-07-26 14:07:53



Read more: http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=657944#ixzz0usZ0QaBZ

[HometownGal]

Wasn't this part of the last BA article you posted?

[SteelMember]

Wasn't this part of the last BA article you posted?

No, this is Bruc"a" Ariens. His evil twin who takes over play calling in the red-zone.


:behindsofa:




:chuckle:

[HometownGal]

At any rate, I'm going to merge the threads.

[st33lersguy]

http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=657944


Steelers | Want Rashard Mendenhall to improve in short yardage
Pittsburgh Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians said RB Rashard Mendenhall does well in goal line situations but wants Mendenhall to improve in short yardage situations, reports Mark Kaboly, of the McKeesport Daily News. "Some guys have to learn that they aren't running for a touchdown. We need a yard. Rashard did a good job on goal line, but not as good a job on short yardage. That will again be an emphasis in training camp," Arians said.

2010-07-26 14:07:53



Read more: http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=657944#ixzz0usZ0QaBZ

And if he doesn't I guess he'll line up in empty backfield shotgun in short yardage situations

[Psycho Ward 86]

The Steelers ran only 42 percent of the time in 2009, but still had their most successful offensive season in team history


Fail -.-'