Now can we put away Arians vs. Haley?

[Craic]

So, what did we learn to night?

1. Ben missed a simple pass that would have been seven points. We settled for three.

2. We had a couple drops, that would have put a different face on drives.

3. We had a few penalties that called back good plays, or put the offense in a bad position.

4. In the end, we scored 19 points, just like last year.


Conclusion:

Haley called bad plays. He called good plays.
Arians called bad plays. He called good plays.

Sometimes players don't execute, turning a good play into a bad play.
And sometimes, injuries on the line really hurt an OC's game plan.

SO can we just leave it alone from this point forward? I say that because inevitably, we're going to either see a "Haley Sucks" thread, or a "Arians Sucks, thank god for Haley" thread (completely ignoring this game) soon.

[fansince'76]

The common thread? A craptastic OL! It all starts up front.

[polamalubeast]

I liked the offense when it was the no-huddle

The Steelers have scored 2 TD and 2 field on the next four drives, but it is the defense which cost the game

[SteelerEmpire]

Yea. Haley pulled an Arians tonight. Long story short, this team is VERY unpolished. The coaching staff had no answers...total deer's in headlights...

[Craic]

Yea. Haley pulled an Arians tonight. Long story short, this team is VERY unpolished. The coaching staff had no answers...total deer's in headlights...

Sigh, and this is what I mean. Why not "Arians" pulled a Haley while he was here? My point is, it is very easy being a armchair OC, but what both OC's are having to deal with, is far, far more than we can ever imagine.

[Devilsdancefloor]

Preacher if you get a chance watch the colts game from today that will tell you alot of the differences plus i think we went away from the short passing to soon, but it is one game im not ready to get my pitchforks out yet :lol:

[polamalubeast]

The offense will be good if he plays the no-huddle

[Edman]

Not even close, Preacher. Try again.

Haley went into this game with an incredible gameplan. Slow the game down and leave Manning on the Sidelines to help the Defense. We were moving the ball and chewing up clock, quick passes to neutalize the Broncos rush, Slants, and use of motion and playaction. The Offense just didn't execute in the Red Zone, and the Defense just wasn't even there that it didn't even matter.

Until I see bullshit gameplans like throwing the ball 40-50 times in bad Cleveland weather, Haley is nowhere near Arians. We've seen one game of Haley's line of planning, and he's already light years ahead of Arians.

[fansince'76]

Not even close, Preacher. Try again.

Haley went into this game with an incredible gameplan. Slow the game down and leave Manning on the Sidelines. We were moving the ball and chewing up clock. The Offense just didn't execute in the Red Zone, and the Defense just wasn't even there that it didn't even matter.

Until I see bullshit like throwing the ball 40-50 times in bad Cleveland weather, Haley is nowhere near Arians.

At the end of the day - 19 points total. Same as last year.

Completely dominate in time of possession in the third quarter, yet still got outscored in that quarter. Same as last year.

[SteelerEmpire]

The run was stopped, the D was stopped, the O-line was out-gunned as well. Suisham was the most consistent and impressive Steeler tonight... never thought I'd ever say that

[HollywoodSteel]

The key now is to see if Haley will learn from his mistakes, if so that will make him an upgrade over Arians. It should always be about playing to your strengths. Our strength is Ben and our playmaking receivers. Sprinkle In some runs to keep them on their toes but don't run every first and second down. And more play action. It almost always works.

[tube517]

Arians, Haley, it won't matter if the defense sucks and we have to sign up guys off the street for our always healthy OL.

[Craic]

Not even close, Preacher. Try again.

Haley went into this game with an incredible gameplan. Slow the game down and leave Manning on the Sidelines to help the Defense. We were moving the ball and chewing up clock, quick passes to neutalize the Broncos rush, Slants, and use of motion and playaction. The Offense just didn't execute in the Red Zone, and the Defense just wasn't even there that it didn't even matter.

Until I see bullshit gameplans like throwing the ball 40-50 times in bad Cleveland weather, Haley is nowhere near Arians. We've seen one game of Haley's line of planning, and he's already light years ahead of Arians.

Let's see if I got this right. . . .

Run, run, 3-9 and throw long for a first down, is a much better game plan than pass, pass, 3-10 throw long for a first down.

Gotcha. :thumbsup:

[X-Terminator]

At the end of the day - 19 points total. Same as last year.

Completely dominate in time of possession in the third quarter, yet still got outscored in that quarter. Same as last year.

And I thought that was the main reason why pretty much every fan wanted Arians booted? That they didn't score enough points? Well, let it be known that Arians' offense scored more points than Haley's offense this week.

[zulater]

I think I'll probably give Haley a few more weeks before I suggest we scrap the offense.

[polamalubeast]

And I thought that was the main reason why pretty much every fan wanted Arians booted? That they didn't score enough points? Well, let it be known that Arians' offense scored more points than Haley's offense this week.

In fact...no since 7 of the 21 points of the Colts was a pick 6

[X-Terminator]

In fact...no since 7 of the 21 points of the Colts was a pick 6

Noted. All I saw was the 21 by the Colts...didn't look at the stats.

Anyway, I certainly am going to give Haley plenty of rope. He did have a good game plan tonight, but execution was lacking, just like it has been for most of the past 5 years. Having a patchwork OL...again...certainly does not help. What I DO want to see out of him is realizing that they will not be able to run the ball behind that OL and use more of the short passing game that was working pretty well tonight.

[zulater]

Noted. All I saw was the 21 by the Colts...didn't look at the stats.

Anyway, I certainly am going to give Haley plenty of rope. He did have a good game plan tonight, but execution was lacking, just like it has been for most of the past 5 years. Having a patchwork OL...again...certainly does not help. What I DO want to see out of him is realizing that they will not be able to run the ball behind that OL and use more of the short passing game that was working pretty well tonight.

I think the running game will get better when the backs get their rythm.

[bayz101]

If your worried about Haley after this game, I've got bad news for you....The offense wasn't the problem tonight. It was the defense. Granted a defense without Clark, but it was them nonetheless.

And oh --- don't blame Troy. He had Manning nearly shit himself TWICE in a span no less than 20 seconds. To the point that he called a timeout!

[Count Steeler]

We need to do something about the O Line. Might be worth considering getting rid of Kugler just to break the pattern of injuries. I don't know how serious Foster and Gilbert are yet, but if they are out for 1-2 games or longer, we are in serious trouble.

[suitanim]

The first few possessions we were VERY predictable. The formula was run-run-pass. When we got into goalline situations, it went pass-pass-pass (or pretty close). There were some nice play calls, but the offense was largely MORE predictable than last year. Which is irrelevant, actually, because as Preach points out, it is EXECUTION that counts. For waht it's worth, I liked Haley's game plan, just wish it was better executed. The blocking up front was suspect, we definitely NEED Mendenhall, Wallace and Ben need to work together a little more, and I think we'll be just fine.

Also, let's not dismiss Denver's defense. You know, they have a DC who put together a game plan too, and his was pretty effective. They upgraded their D from last year, an they are definitely going to be (barring major injuries) a HUGE factor in the AFC title race. And Denver is a tough place to play, and hasn't been kind to us.

This loss is just one "L". No need to panic. There was plenty of good to build on.

[Butch]

So, what did we learn to night?

1. Ben missed a simple pass that would have been seven points. We settled for three.

2. We had a couple drops, that would have put a different face on drives.

3. We had a few penalties that called back good plays, or put the offense in a bad position.

4. In the end, we scored 19 points, just like last year.


Conclusion:

Haley called bad plays. He called good plays.
Arians called bad plays. He called good plays.

Sometimes players don't execute, turning a good play into a bad play.
And sometimes, injuries on the line really hurt an OC's game plan.

SO can we just leave it alone from this point forward? I say that because inevitably, we're going to either see a "Haley Sucks" thread, or a "Arians Sucks, thank god for Haley" thread (completely ignoring this game) soon.

It's only week one Preach the jury is still out. Give Haley some time to either sink or swim. At least he didn't put in a passing attack against a team that was the worst rush d in the league...yet.

[Devilsdancefloor]

quick passes steeler nation needs to channel this to haley :lol:

[Pristas]

If your worried about Haley after this game, I've got bad news for you....The offense wasn't the problem tonight. It was the defense. Granted a defense without Clark, but it was them nonetheless.

And oh --- don't blame Troy. He had Manning nearly shit himself TWICE in a span no less than 20 seconds. To the point that he called a timeout!

Ha, I loved that, then they got a delay of game penalty!!!

I blame the thin air for our defense's lack of performance. It is mile high after all. Ben was spectacular. He was putting passes in places that maybe three other QB's in the league could. Brown and Wallace both looked great, so did Sanders. Give credit to Pryor. He broke up several key plays for us. He played lights out! For most of the game, Starks did a great job. Once Legursky took over at RG, is when the dam started to break. Dwyer is our best back right now. And he got far too few carries. I don't know why we used a roster spot on B Batch. One major problem of the night is that we didn't run any screens to Rainey. He wanted the ball so badley he almost burst! He was trying to field a kick buy jumping up in the back of the endzone. Man is crazy, but in a good way. Haley needs to make sure his o-line is working before he calls 80% run plays in the first half. Maybe they aren't quite ready for that. I will say this, most of you are wrong with the stuff, stuff, pass for 10. Redman typically ran for about 3-5, twice and that brought us a 3rd and 3 or 3rd and 5. Ben converted a lot of those with his arm, but all he needed was a short pass. Manning was simply Manning, and he loves to beat us, so his ego is bigger.I so wanted to wipe that coy smile off his face all second half. With even a slightly improved o-line, we would have won this game, on the road, at mile high, against Manning and a great Bronco defense. We are easily still a 12-4 team.

[Chidi29]

And I thought that was the main reason why pretty much every fan wanted Arians booted? That they didn't score enough points? Well, let it be known that Arians' offense scored more points than Haley's offense this week.

Despite the fact that anti-Arians' argument doesn't even hold much water. That for an eight week span last year when Ben wasn't hurt and when the team wasn't rusty off the lockout, we were a top five scoring offense.

[cold-hard-steel]

I liked the offense when it was the no-huddle

The Steelers have scored 2 TD and 2 field on the next four drives, but it is the defense which cost the game

Amen!!!!

[cold-hard-steel]

Arians has no biz being mentioned in this loss.

[cold-hard-steel]

We lossed the first game,i'm over it.Time to move on.

[pepsyman1]

Despite the fact that anti-Arians' argument doesn't even hold much water. That for an eight week span last year when Ben wasn't hurt and when the team wasn't rusty off the lockout, we were a top five scoring offense.

What 8 games were those? Lol. We only broke 25 points 5 times all year and they were all spread out.

[Craic]

It's only week one Preach the jury is still out. Give Haley some time to either sink or swim. At least he didn't put in a passing attack against a team that was the worst rush d in the league...yet.

Not what I was saying, Butch. I was just pointing out that the same issues exist in a different form. All I can really blame Haley for, was the run, run, pass offense in the first quarter. Even there, I think he was trying to get our guys used to running the ball again, and establishing a mentality since it's the first game. So despite the fact it was predictable, I understand it.


If your worried about Haley after this game, I've got bad news for you....The offense wasn't the problem tonight. It was the defense. Granted a defense without Clark, but it was them nonetheless.

And oh --- don't blame Troy. He had Manning nearly shit himself TWICE in a span no less than 20 seconds. To the point that he called a timeout!
ANd my point was that last year, Arians would have been ripped apart for the team only scoring two TD's with four trips to the redzone. So if the offense wasn't the problem tonight, then it wasn't the problem last year either. It's the exact same problems, with a different look. Or, if you will, it's the same pig with a different shade of lipstick.



I think I'll probably give Haley a few more weeks before I suggest we scrap the offense.

Really has nothing to do with what I was saying.


The first few possessions we were VERY predictable. The formula was run-run-pass. When we got into goalline situations, it went pass-pass-pass (or pretty close). There were some nice play calls, but the offense was largely MORE predictable than last year. Which is irrelevant, actually, because as Preach points out, it is EXECUTION that counts. For waht it's worth, I liked Haley's game plan, just wish it was better executed. The blocking up front was suspect, we definitely NEED Mendenhall, Wallace and Ben need to work together a little more, and I think we'll be just fine.

Also, let's not dismiss Denver's defense. You know, they have a DC who put together a game plan too, and his was pretty effective. They upgraded their D from last year, an they are definitely going to be (barring major injuries) a HUGE factor in the AFC title race. And Denver is a tough place to play, and hasn't been kind to us.

This loss is just one "L". No need to panic. There was plenty of good to build on.

Couldn't have said it better myself - on all fronts.


Arians has no biz being mentioned in this loss.
I really don't think you read the original post.

[Chidi29]

What 8 games were those? Lol. We only broke 25 points 5 times all year and they were all spread out.

Game 5-12. Averaged 25.5 points per game.

[Bluecoat96]

The first few possessions we were VERY predictable. The formula was run-run-pass. When we got into goalline situations, it went pass-pass-pass (or pretty close). There were some nice play calls, but the offense was largely MORE predictable than last year. Which is irrelevant, actually, because as Preach points out, it is EXECUTION that counts. For waht it's worth, I liked Haley's game plan, just wish it was better executed. The blocking up front was suspect, we definitely NEED Mendenhall, Wallace and Ben need to work together a little more, and I think we'll be just fine.

Also, let's not dismiss Denver's defense. You know, they have a DC who put together a game plan too, and his was pretty effective. They upgraded their D from last year, an they are definitely going to be (barring major injuries) a HUGE factor in the AFC title race. And Denver is a tough place to play, and hasn't been kind to us.

This loss is just one "L". No need to panic. There was plenty of good to build on.


Agreed. It seems as if any time Jack Del Rio is involved in game-planning against the Steelers, he gives the Steelers Offense a hell of a time. I know it always seemed like Jacksonville had our number in recent years.

[ALLD]

Arians is not to blame for the Steelers losing, but it is his fault the Colts did.

[suitanim]

Arians is not to blame for the Steelers losing, but it is his fault the Colts did.

The Bears scored 41 points. Is it an OC's job to score 42 points a game now? Or to call the defense? Or to PLAY defense?

C'mon! You guys are starting to embarrass yourselves here!

[stillers4me]

We lossed the first game,i'm over it.Time to move on.

Welcome back, stranger. :chuckle:

[stillers4me]

Pimply Dan: "they need to start wining some games and they can no lose any more games." :heh:

All this from one game??? Let's give the Rosetta Stone a few more weeks before we get out the pitchforks...k?

[pepsyman1]

Game 5-12. Averaged 25.5 points per game.

LOL Thats being pretty selective Chidi. Our two highest output games of the year (38 and 35 pts) were bracketed on both sides by games that we didn't even break twenty and only 1 broke 15.

By comparison the Packers and Patriots score under 25 points only 5 times BETWEEN them all year

[Craic]

Pimply Dan: "they need to start wining some games and they can no lose any more games." :heh:

All this from one game??? Let's give the Rosetta Stone a few more weeks before we get out the pitchforks...k?



Naa, all of this because I dared challenge the notion that our offensive woes were based on something more than Arians. That's all. Heck, I'm pretty excited about quite a few things I saw, especially the play of Starks and Adams. Heck, keep that up, and once DeCastro gets healthy, it'll be a heck of a line with Adams at right tackle.

[ALLD]

The Bears scored 41 points. Is it an OC's job to score 42 points a game now? Or to call the defense? Or to PLAY defense?

C'mon! You guys are starting to embarrass yourselves here!

I did not watch the game or look at anything other than the final score. My intention was to get a rise out of somebody.

[HollywoodSteel]

Hey, this is interesting since we're talking about Haley. Watch this Ben interview. It's like he's doing everything he can not to throw Haley under the bus, but you know that on some level he blames him.. at least a little. I certainly will not exonerate Ben from a bad decision on that pick 6, but it just goes to show, we don't know everything that goes on, good and bad, behind the scenes.

http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Ben-Roethlisberger---Post-game---vs-Broncos/2540e218-53f8-400f-a8c2-46d38dd46800

[HollywoodSteel]

At least Arians was smart enough to let Ben call his own plays in those situations. :behindsofa:

[Psycho Ward 86]

its one game in against a much improved broncos defense. lol

[HollywoodSteel]

Watching the Ravens use play action an no huddle is making me sick. Of course they have an elite QB and the best receiving core in the division. Pulse they don't have an elite runner like Redman so it totally makes sense.

[GBMelBlount]

The key now is to see if Haley will learn from his mistakes, if so that will make him an upgrade over Arians. It should always be about playing to your strengths. Our strength is Ben and our playmaking receivers. Sprinkle In some runs to keep them on their toes but don't run every first and second down. And more play action. It almost always works.

^^This. This is Haley's first game.

The Steelers stated they wanted to become more run oriented so Haley attempted to do that despite having one of the worst OL's in the NFL because THAT was the directive.

Now people are comparing Haley to Arians and drawing conclusions after ONE game....

JUST WOW.

Let's give it a few weeks to see if they can get healthy and make the necessary adjustments.

[HollywoodSteel]

No one is saying fire Arians. He had a bad game just like a lot Steelers last night. But as far as I'm concerned I'm going to hold him to the same standard as Tomlin held held Wallace the day after resigning, "all he's done so far is show up."

In fact Haley has more to prove. Every other Steeler who had a bad night last has had at least one good night in a Steelers uniform. I'll be thrilled to compliment him the first time I see him out coach someone.

[SteelGhost]

I wish some day we stop comparing these guys. Haley IS the OC now, let's move on.

[HollywoodSteel]

:drink:And Ben is our QB and Woodley is our linebacker and Ike is our cornerback and Legursky is on the team while Essex was cut, etc. Can we please stop scrutinizing and evaluating and comparing anything about this team because it is what it is? And even if some people think certain discussions are interesting can we please stop having them for the sake of the people who are in no way compelled to engage or even read them but just think we shouldn't?

And most importantly can we please stop making posts telling people to not make posts? Err, except this one. This one doesn't count.

I'm just messing with you all. No actual animosity intended. I've been drinking. :alcohol:

[zulater]

I think we should shelf this topic until mid October. By then we should start getting a better understanding of how the new offense is taking shape.

[suitanim]

Well, the prophets were wise and correct.

The criticism of Haley started at GAME ONE.

If we aren't scoring 50 points a game, and winning 50-0 (because the OC seems to have control over defense and special teams as well in Da Burgh), they will be ready to run him out of town on a rail by game 10. I wonder by which game I'll be labeled an apologist for Haley? By which game will I start getting called stupid for defending his "predictable grab bag of plays"? Ahhhh.....the mind boggles.

[NCSteeler]

So, what did we learn to night?

1. Ben missed a simple pass that would have been seven points. We settled for three.

2. We had a couple drops, that would have put a different face on drives.

3. We had a few penalties that called back good plays, or put the offense in a bad position.

4. In the end, we scored 19 points, just like last year.


Conclusion:

Haley called bad plays. He called good plays.
Arians called bad plays. He called good plays.

Sometimes players don't execute, turning a good play into a bad play.
And sometimes, injuries on the line really hurt an OC's game plan.

SO can we just leave it alone from this point forward? I say that because inevitably, we're going to either see a "Haley Sucks" thread, or a "Arians Sucks, thank god for Haley" thread (completely ignoring this game) soon.

How disingenuous to post a thread titled "Now can we put away the Arians vs Haley?" When all you really intended to do was start the debate a new. The board was not flooded with complaints, or threads or conversation onthe subject until now. Thanks for getting the season kicked off . Now you made most of the predictions about when the bitching would start come true

[Craic]

How disingenuous to post a thread titled "Now can we put away the Arians vs Haley?" When all you really intended to do was start the debate a new. The board was not flooded with complaints, or threads or conversation onthe subject until now. Thanks for getting the season kicked off . Now you made most of the predictions about when the bitching would start come true

Wow, talk about misreading a post. . . or reading into a post. Let's go through that post together shall we?

Thread title.
"Now can we put away Arians vs. Haley?" Comprehension of title: Can we stop comparing the two, saying Haley will fix this, or fix that, or this was Arians fault, or that was Arians fault.

Evidence for my argument

So, what did we learn to night?

1. Ben missed a simple pass that would have been seven points. We settled for three. - Execution caused problems for Haley's offense, just as it did for Arians

2. We had a couple drops, that would have put a different face on drives. - Execution again caused problems for Haley's offense, just as it did for Arians

3. We had a few penalties that called back good plays, or put the offense in a bad position - Department of redundancy department. Have I said execution caused problem yet?

4. In the end, we scored 19 points, just like last year. - Regardless of coordinator, the same issues remain. They may look different, but the underlying issues are still there.

Now, what was my intention that you seem to know oh, so well? It was to show that there is no basis for a Haley vs. Arians argument. But let's move on so that I can help further in comprehending my post.


Conclusion:
This means that I'm about to show exactly what I am talking about, which is . . .


Haley called bad plays. He called good plays. - Am I wrong here?

Arians called bad plays. He called good plays. - Am I wrong here? And how, pray-tell, is this intended to "Start the debate anew?"

Sometimes players don't execute, turning a good play into a bad play. - In what way am I blaming either OC for this?
And sometimes, injuries on the line really hurt an OC's game plan. - I guess THIS must be such the debate piece, because so far, nothing else even comes close to what you're claiming
So let's stop and take stock now. You claimed that I was trying to "start the debate anew." Where, in anything above here, do you see me "starting it anew?" I am stating that we saw Ben miss passes, we saw recievers drop balls, we saw penalties, we saw 19 points put up just like last year. Hence, we are still suffering problems. So the entire "Arians vs. Haley" argument is invalid, because the problems are still around. Now, just in case that was missed, let's go to the last paragraph.


SO can we just leave it alone from this point forward? I say that because inevitably, we're going to either see a "Haley Sucks" thread, or a "Arians Sucks, thank god for Haley" thread (completely ignoring this game) soon.
Let's focus on the first line. Please inform me how asking for everyone to leave it alone, is specifically asking for everyone to start the debate up again? Seems to me, those are completely logically inconsistent with one another. Let's move on to the second sentence. Since, as you say, I SO WANT TO START THE DEBATE AGAIN. Where should I start. Oh yeah, "Inevitably, we're going to see a 'Haley sucks' thread or a 'Arians sucks, thank god for Haley' thread." Please, I'm begging you, somehow, in some way, explain to me how my call to END the Arians vs. Haley arguments because INEVITABLY, we're going to see a Haley or Arians sucks thread, is in reality, calling for a start of a brand new round of arguments.

Please explain it to me, I'm so curious to know.

BTW, I should be honored to know that you think I single-handedly have the ability to move an entire board full of people to jump to the same conclusions that they do every single season after the first game. Next, you're going to blame me for the sun rising as well. Next time, I suggest you actually read what I wrote, instead of what you ASSUMED I wrote.

On a last note, I really don't appreciate your ignorance in blaming me for what has been standard method of operation around here. These comparisons were being made in the GAME DAY THREAD (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/14467-Steelers-vs-Broncos-Season-Opener-Game-Day-Thread-September-9-2012(SNF)?p=309845&viewfull=1#post309845) long before I posted this thread. So please, knock off the accusations.

[suitanim]

Ouch!

That's gonna leave a mark.

[cold-hard-steel]

Welcome back, stranger. :chuckle:

Thanks, i've been here pretty much every day. Can't chomp at the bit till the season is under way.I thought we did pretty well on the offense. Showed me a lot of clock control. With our injury situation i think we will be fine. I have to say the defense left us down. Just me.

[NCSteeler]

Your smart enough to know that bringing up the debate will only start the debate, no matter the context you bring it up in. Your also smart enough to know that internet threads create snowball/landslide effects once a topic is raised especially in a sensitive environment. Anyhow, whatever.



Wow, talk about misreading a post. . . or reading into a post. Let's go through that post together shall we?

Thread title. Comprehension of title: Can we stop comparing the two, saying Haley will fix this, or fix that, or this was Arians fault, or that was Arians fault.

Evidence for my argument


Now, what was my intention that you seem to know oh, so well? It was to show that there is no basis for a Haley vs. Arians argument. But let's move on so that I can help further in comprehending my post.


This means that I'm about to show exactly what I am talking about, which is . . .


So let's stop and take stock now. You claimed that I was trying to "start the debate anew." Where, in anything above here, do you see me "starting it anew?" I am stating that we saw Ben miss passes, we saw recievers drop balls, we saw penalties, we saw 19 points put up just like last year. Hence, we are still suffering problems. So the entire "Arians vs. Haley" argument is invalid, because the problems are still around. Now, just in case that was missed, let's go to the last paragraph.


Let's focus on the first line. Please inform me how asking for everyone to leave it alone, is specifically asking for everyone to start the debate up again? Seems to me, those are completely logically inconsistent with one another. Let's move on to the second sentence. Since, as you say, I SO WANT TO START THE DEBATE AGAIN. Where should I start. Oh yeah, "Inevitably, we're going to see a 'Haley sucks' thread or a 'Arians sucks, thank god for Haley' thread." Please, I'm begging you, somehow, in some way, explain to me how my call to END the Arians vs. Haley arguments because INEVITABLY, we're going to see a Haley or Arians sucks thread, is in reality, calling for a start of a brand new round of arguments.

Please explain it to me, I'm so curious to know.

BTW, I should be honored to know that you think I single-handedly have the ability to move an entire board full of people to jump to the same conclusions that they do every single season after the first game. Next, you're going to blame me for the sun rising as well. Next time, I suggest you actually read what I wrote, instead of what you ASSUMED I wrote.

On a last note, I really don't appreciate your ignorance in blaming me for what has been standard method of operation around here. These comparisons were being made in the GAME DAY THREAD (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/14467-Steelers-vs-Broncos-Season-Opener-Game-Day-Thread-September-9-2012(SNF)?p=309845&viewfull=1#post309845) long before I posted this thread. So please, knock off the accusations.

[Craic]

Your smart enough to know that bringing up the debate will only start the debate, no matter the context you bring it up in. Your also smart enough to know that internet threads create snowball/landslide effects once a topic is raised especially in a sensitive environment. Anyhow, whatever.

Yes, and likewise, you're smart enough to click on the gameday thread and see that your first assumption was wrong. The debate was already started again by comparisons in that thread. So once again, you actually believe that "I'm" responsible for "bringing up the subject?" When it's brought up already numerous times that day? When the M.O. of this board (and SF before it), was that very thing? Come on . . . you know this community better than that.

[NCSteeler]

Yes, and likewise, you're smart enough to click on the gameday thread and see that your first assumption was wrong. The debate was already started again by comparisons in that thread. So once again, you actually believe that "I'm" responsible for "bringing up the subject?" When it's brought up already numerous times that day? When the M.O. of this board (and SF before it), was that very thing? Come on . . . you know this community better than that.

Not all of us have time to read 60 pages of the gameday thread. And the gameday thread is way different from topics started in their own threads on the Main Board.

[Craic]

Not all of us have time to read 60 pages of the gameday thread. And the gameday thread is way different from topics started in their own threads on the Main Board.

Funny thing is, neither do I. I simply clicked on the link figuring I'd hit a post and sure enough . . .

In short, "Arians Hate" isa SF/SU meme that isn't going away anytime soon, but thanks for blaming me anyway.

[suitanim]

Funny thing is, neither do I. I simply clicked on the link figuring I'd hit a post and sure enough . . .

In short, "Arians Hate" isa SF/SU meme that isn't going away anytime soon, but thanks for blaming me anyway.

It's already shifted to Haley. As predicted. So, technically, we CAN put away Arians vs. Haley, because it will be a purely Haley bashing exercise soon. And, I'm pretty sure I'm not going too far out on a limb when I suggest that (as predicted) it will be pretty much all the same people hating on Haley that hated on Arians.

[Craic]

It's already shifted to Haley. As predicted. So, technically, we CAN put away Arians vs. Haley, because it will be a purely Haley bashing exercise soon. And, I'm pretty sure I'm not going too far out on a limb when I suggest that (as predicted) it will be pretty much all the same people hating on Haley that hated on Arians.

It's a pretty common thing. Just like QB's, RB's, etc. Oh well.

[NCSteeler]

I must be reading a different board than ya'll as I scroll the titles on the main board , THIS is the only thread doing headline discussion of Haley or Arians. A few other threads have sideline mentions of them a few with complaints.

Although there is the Essex thread that should be banished to the NFL forum.

[Boomerang]

I had no major problem with our O in this game but our D was a concern we need to turn around.

[HollywoodSteel]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot and am still trying to understand something: why is it important to some people that this topic not be discussed? I'm really not trying to be a smartass here, I just find it kind of interesting and am trying to get it straight in my own head. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand why some people don't want to discuss it or even read threads about it. What puzzles me is why it is somehow imperative to some people that others also refrain from doing so. Why not just skip over those threads to the ones that you do think are worth your time? This line of thinking seems to be pretty specific to only a couple of topics as far as I can tell: the Big Ben suspension and our offensive coordinator are the ones that come to mind. Maybe there are others, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

I understand that there is along history of emotional and heated debate here that can sometimes get borderline personal. Suitanim and Steeldude have had some classic exchanges, but at the end of the day I don't think either one of them loses any sleep and at some level they both must enjoy it or they'd stop. I for one always get a kick out of it.

I also don't get the "this guy is here and that guy is gone SO MOVE ON!" reasoning. Doesn't that same logic apply to pretty much everything else? There's what is the case presently and what is not the case presently about everything and yet we still manage to have interesting discussions about, well everything.

And Preacher, I have a question for you specifically, but please understand that I am not trying to give you a hard time. I think your posts are some of the most thoughtful and insightful ones on this board and I always appreciate them even when we reach different conclusions (see: Roger Goodel). I absolutely take what you have to say at face value and would not accuse you of being disingenuous or passive aggressively trying to stir things up. But I don't get why you think that one game with Haley should end the comparisons to Arians. Isn't this where it should start? How can any conclusion be reached now? You say that Haley called bad plays and good plays, and likewise for Arians. While this is absolutely the case, couldn't you apply that reasoning to pretty much every player in the NFL as well, yet we still compare them and debate our positions. Am I missing something? When you give your opinion about the comparative value of say Essex vs. Legursky, wouldn't the debate be shut down before it even gets started if we used that logic? They both have made bad plays and good plays.

Perhaps the OC position is different because it isn't physical and we tend to think that we all know more than we really do. It's also so easy to second guess after the fact and that can be infuriating to hear people do without making a well reasoned argument. But somewhere amongst the emotion and the hyperbole, interesting observations occasionally do get made. I guess my personal take is that if a discussion is happening it must be worth having, at least to those involved. For those who aren't interested in any given discussion, well it's a pretty big internet and there's probably a discussion going on that is worth your attention.

Like I said, I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time and I'm always eager to hear compelling arguments from differing opinions.

[GodfatherofSoul]

I don't have a problem debating the merits of the two, but it's way too early to start criticizing Haley. Even with our poor performance on offense, we were in this game until Ben's INT.

[suitanim]

Huh?

I don't engage with Steelerdude anymore, and haven't for a couple years. He's at the top of my ignore list. And what was classic about it anyway? He has three excuses for everything: Arians, Kordell Stewart, and Lamarr Woodley, and 2 of the three don't even have anything to do with the Steelers anymore, and one hasn't been a Steeler in a decade.

[HollywoodSteel]

Huh?

I don't engage with Steelerdude anymore, and haven't for a couple years. He's at the top of my ignore list. And what was classic about it anyway? He has three excuses for everything: Arians, Kordell Stewart, and Lamarr Woodley, and 2 of the three don't even have anything to do with the Steelers anymore, and one hasn't been a Steeler in a decade.

Perhaps it is only entertaining to an outside observer. I guess Iv'e seen Steeldude respond to some of your recent posts and just assumed you were engaging as well. My bad for making false assumptions. You do still get salty at times with other posters. I guess I just assumed you are always having at least some fun with it. Again, I'm probably just projecting because I find it entertaining.

[suitanim]

Oh, I do have fun with it...namely because since he has pretty much always posted only about 3 thoughts, my responses are like "evergreens"...they are good all year, any year. He's grouchy, angry, doesn't know all that much about football, and really hates Kordell Stewart. How many different ways can you express those three or four thoughts?