Rodgers-Cromartie: Hit on Leftwich was clean, “no question”

[polamalubeast]

Eagles cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie launched at Steelers quarterback Byron Leftwich in last week’s preseason game and was flagged for unnecessary roughness, but Rodgers-Cromartie doesn’t think he did anything wrong.

Rodgers-Cromartie told Sheil Kapadia of PhillyMag.com that he doesn’t think he’ll be fined, and that there’s “no question” in his mind that his hit on Leftwich was clean. He also said he has no regrets about his hit on Leftwich.

“Regrets? We’re playing football, man,” Rodgers-Cromartie said. “The Bible said don’t live a life of regret.”

Rodgers-Cromartie may have the Bible on his side, but he doesn’t have the rulebook on his side. It’s a foul if a player leaves both feet prior to contact to spring forward and upward into his opponent and uses any part of his helmet to initiate contact. It’s also a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against an opponent in the act of throwing a pass or just after throwing a pass. That’s what Rodgers-Cromartie did to Leftwich, and that’s why he’ll be fined.



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/13/rodgers-cromartie-hit-on-leftwich-was-clean-no-question/

[suitanim]

Maybe he'll be fined, maybe he won't.

I just wonder: Will he be fined more for leaving his feet and purposefully targeting an opposing QB's head than others have been fined for.........................wearing orange shoes?

[fansince'76]

Maybe he'll be fined, maybe he won't.

The league's "Disciplinary Committee" is hard at work determining that now...

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/9/23/saupload_monkey750x938.jpg

[GodfatherofSoul]

Don't know if it's been discussed, but WTF was Leftwich doing running up to the line with a DB running right at him? You deserve to get popped in the mouth for that. He's got a bad enough history of injury w/o playing chicken w/ the pass rush.

[steelpride12]

Who's surprised. We all know how it works year after year. A hit on a Steelers QB no matter how severe will always be a "clean hit" to the league, but when Harrison even looks at a QB wrong, guarantee a fine is coming.

[Psycho Ward 86]

launching is illegal period. but lets not beat a deadhorse

[SteelerFanInStl]

Reading through the comments was comical. :-) It's apparent that a lot of the 'fans' still don't understand the rules either.

DRC should get a game suspension just for being an idiot.

[fansince'76]

Reading through the comments was comical. :-) It's apparent that a lot of the 'fans' still don't understand the rules either.


No part of his helmet hit Leftwich. He hit Leftwich shoulder first which is fine.

There shouldn’t be a penalty/fine on launching UNLESS there is helmet to helmet to helmet contact. I don’t see. why he should be fined for leading with his shoulders.


Unless RC has another head coming out of his right shoulder it was a legal hit.


“…and uses any part of his helmet to initiate contact.”

His shoulder pad initiated contact.

“… unnecessary contact against an opponent in the act of throwing a pass or just after throwing a pass.”

First Leftwich ran out of the pocket and was running towards the line of scrimmage. He was not defenseless. Then he made a weak pass attempt, turning himself in a defenseless player right before he knew he was going to get hit. The rules were changed for the safety of players, right? Is it OK for the players to stop protecting themselves moments before impact, just to avoid a 3 yard loss?

http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2010/4/15/129158556075572762.jpg

[86WARD]

No question? LMAO! Good one.

[X-Terminator]

If DRC doesn't get fined for this, then Ryan Clark should sue to get his $40,000 back for almost the exact same hit he made on that Ravens' TE last season. Simple as that.

[ALLD]

It looked like he was doing an Olympic pole vault to get to Lefty.

[Chidi29]

The league's "Disciplinary Committee" is hard at work determining that now...

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/9/23/saupload_monkey750x938.jpg

Put a bunch of monkeys in a room and eventually they'll write Shakespeare.

So I'm taking this as a compliment to the league.

[steel striker]

Funny how the media hardly even mentioned this particular hit. Like all of us steelers fans have said if that had been Harrison it would have been automatic ejection & suspension plus a 500k fine to boot.

[Craic]

Who's surprised. We all know how it works year after year. A hit on a Steelers QB no matter how severe will always be a "clean hit" to the league, but when Harrison even looks at a QB wrong, guarantee a fine is coming.

Since 2004

Fines for Hits on Ben R.

Phil Taylor 12-14-11 $15,000 Hit on QB

Raheem Brock 09-22-11 $15,000 Hitting below the knee

Haloti Ngata 12-06-2010 $15,000. Struck in head

Richard Seymour 11-22-2010 $25,000. Hitting him with an open hand in the jaw/Ejected from game.

Total fines = 4
Total dollar amount = $70,000
Total ejections = 1

Fines for Hits on Tom Brady

Richard Seymour 10-08-2011 $7,500 for throwing QB to the ground.

Antonio Garay 09-22-11 $15,000 Hitting below the knee

LaMarr Woodley 11-19-2010 $12,500

Haloti Ngata 10-09-2009 $5000 (struck in head)

Total fines = 4
Total dollar amount = $40,000
Total ejections = 0

Fines for Hits on Peyton Manning (Going back to 2003 for equal years)

10-16-2009 Jacob Ford $5,000 Unnecessary roughness.

10-16-2009 Kale Vanden Bosch $5,000 hit on QB.

Total fines = 2
Total dollar amount = $10,000
Total ejections = 0


Seems to me, you're simply wrong.

[Galax Steeler]

You have to agree Ben takes more hits then any other quarterback so fines for hitting him should be more then Brady or Manning becuase he is taking more of an abuse then any quarterback in the league.

[Chidi29]

You have to agree Ben takes more hits then any other quarterback so fines for hitting him should be more then Brady or Manning becuase he is taking more of an abuse then any quarterback in the league.

Not necessarily. You can hit a guy clean 50 times and DRC hit Leftwich like he did once and get a fine.

Getting hit more doesn't always mean being fined more.

[Nadroj 20]

Since 2004

Fines for Hits on Ben R.

Phil Taylor 12-14-11 $15,000 Hit on QB

Raheem Brock 09-22-11 $15,000 Hitting below the knee

Haloti Ngata 12-06-2010 $15,000. Struck in head

Richard Seymour 11-22-2010 $25,000. Hitting him with an open hand in the jaw/Ejected from game.

Total fines = 4
Total dollar amount = $70,000
Total ejections = 1

Fines for Hits on Tom Brady

Richard Seymour 10-08-2011 $7,500 for throwing QB to the ground.

Antonio Garay 09-22-11 $15,000 Hitting below the knee

LaMarr Woodley 11-19-2010 $12,500

Haloti Ngata 10-09-2009 $5000 (struck in head)

Total fines = 4
Total dollar amount = $40,000
Total ejections = 0

Fines for Hits on Peyton Manning (Going back to 2003 for equal years)

10-16-2009 Jacob Ford $5,000 Unnecessary roughness.

10-16-2009 Kale Vanden Bosch $5,000 hit on QB.

Total fines = 2
Total dollar amount = $10,000
Total ejections = 0


Seems to me, you're simply wrong.

Can't argue with that. Great post Preacher.

[Nadroj 20]

You have to agree Ben takes more hits then any other quarterback so fines for hitting him should be more then Brady or Manning becuase he is taking more of an abuse then any quarterback in the league.

Just because he gets hit or sacked more doesn't mean there is a greater chance for a fineable hit. Most of Ben's sacks are by two or three guys that all swarm him and just bring him down. Ben's elusiveness eliminates the straight line 100 mph tackles that have a greater chance of being fined if they hit the helmet etc...

[Galax Steeler]

Just because he gets hit or sacked more doesn't mean there is a greater chance for a fineable hit. Most of Ben's sacks are by two or three guys that all swarm him and just bring him down. Ben's elusiveness eliminates the straight line 100 mph tackles that have a greater chance of being fined if they hit the helmet etc...

I would have to say the more hits you take the more chance you are going to be taking a illegal hit. The way he runs around and tries to avoid a sack, Brady and Manning take way less hits then Ben does.

[GBMelBlount]

You have to agree Ben takes more hits then any other quarterback so fines for hitting him should be more then Brady or Manning becuase he is taking more of an abuse then any quarterback in the league.


Ben probably got hit HARD 2-3 times as often as Brady (guess)....yet the same number of defensive players were fined for each...4.

Logic could also dictate that more players should be fined for hits on Ben but that is not the case here.

...and one the fines is for throwing Brady to the ground too hard? Could you imagine someone being fined for throwing Ben down too hard? lol.

[GBMelBlount]

Just because he gets hit or sacked more doesn't mean there is a greater chance for a fineable hit. Most of Ben's sacks are by two or three guys that all swarm him and just bring him down. Ben's elusiveness eliminates the straight line 100 mph tackles that have a greater chance of being fined if they hit the helmet etc...

I get your point but the degree to which his elusiveness lessens flagrant hits is simply a guess.

One could also argue that Ben being up and fighting longer increases the chances of somebody teeing off on him.

[stillers4me]

Ben probably got hit HARD 3-4 times as often as Brady....yet the same number of defensive players were fined for each...4.

Logic and stats should dicatate that 2-3 times as many players should be fined for hits on Ben but that is CLEARLY not the case here and the stats prove that.

...and one the fines is for throwing Brady to the ground too hard? Huh? I bet there's a much bigger list of hits that didn't get penalized but should have for Ben than any other QB.

[Nadroj 20]

I mean we do see every game Ben plays in and not every game any other QB plays in. That matters too IMO.

[GBMelBlount]

I'm mean we do see every game Ben plays in and not every game any other QB plays in. That matters too IMO.

You're right. I may be jumping the gun here. I wish I had the time to look at all of Ben and Brady's sacks, etc.

[HollywoodSteel]

Since 2004

Fines for Hits on Ben R.

Phil Taylor 12-14-11 $15,000 Hit on QB

Raheem Brock 09-22-11 $15,000 Hitting below the knee

Haloti Ngata 12-06-2010 $15,000. Struck in head

Richard Seymour 11-22-2010 $25,000. Hitting him with an open hand in the jaw/Ejected from game.

Total fines = 4
Total dollar amount = $70,000
Total ejections = 1

Fines for Hits on Tom Brady

Richard Seymour 10-08-2011 $7,500 for throwing QB to the ground.

Antonio Garay 09-22-11 $15,000 Hitting below the knee

LaMarr Woodley 11-19-2010 $12,500

Haloti Ngata 10-09-2009 $5000 (struck in head)

Total fines = 4
Total dollar amount = $40,000
Total ejections = 0

Fines for Hits on Peyton Manning (Going back to 2003 for equal years)

10-16-2009 Jacob Ford $5,000 Unnecessary roughness.

10-16-2009 Kale Vanden Bosch $5,000 hit on QB.

Total fines = 2
Total dollar amount = $10,000
Total ejections = 0


Seems to me, you're simply wrong.

Those are interesting stats, Preacher, and I know you were directly responding to another poster about hits on Ben vs. other QBs, but to me this hardly matters. After the fact fines don't give other teams an unfair edge, but LACK OF FLAGS do. Perhaps we all have some sort of conformation bias, but personally, I have seen many hits on Ben that should have been flagged but weren't, and I've seen Manning get grazed by a fingernail across the helmet and draw a flag.

Even from your list above, were all those fines for hits on been flagged during the game as they should have been? I see one flagrant example that I just happen to remember was not. I also seem to recall a twisted nose and gushing blood.

Perhaps we are all just being biased fans, but it really stretches the imagination to picture Manning or Brady not getting the benefit of the flag on a play like that.

I think where the fine thing gets under our skins is when Steelers defenders seem to be more highly scrutinized than defenders from other teams. I'd like to see the fine comparisons on that one. I'll be happy to admit that I'm wrong though if the stats should prove that.

[Nadroj 20]

You're right. I may be jumping the gun here. I wish I had the time to look at all of Ben and Brady's sacks, etc.

Altogether I just want the flag more then anything else. What does fining the player do for the Steelers after the fact? Absolutely zippo. I just want the flag that gets our team a first down and 15 yards and possibly some important momentum.

What happens to the offending player after the game has little to no effect on me and it doesn't matter if he deserves the fine or not.

[Craic]

Ben probably got hit HARD 2-3 times as often as Brady (guess)....yet the same number of defensive players were fined for each...4.

Logic could also dictate that more players should be fined for hits on Ben but that is not the case here.

...and one the fines is for throwing Brady to the ground too hard? Could you imagine someone being fined for throwing Ben down too hard? lol.

Before we go too far back into the "Poor Steelers are Hated by the Refs," mentality, remember that out of all three players here, only ONE hit on a QB had a player ejected from the game. That was the hand to the face on Ben.

Same thing on Brady - no ejection.

So, Ben, hand to the face = 50% ejection rate (happened twice)
Brady, hand to the face = 0% ejection rate.

The previous post was countering a myth that players never get fined for hitting Ben. The fact is, twice as many players have been fined by the league for hitting Ben as they have for hitting Manning, and the same amount have been fined for hitting Brady. There's no way around that fact.

[Craic]

Those are interesting stats, Preacher, and I know you were directly responding to another poster about hits on Ben vs. other QBs, but to me this hardly matters. After the fact fines don't give other teams an unfair edge, but LACK OF FLAGS do. Perhaps we all have some sort of conformation bias, but personally, I have seen many hits on Ben that should have been flagged but weren't, and I've seen Manning get grazed by a fingernail across the helmet and draw a flag.

Even from your list above, were all those fines for hits on been flagged during the game as they should have been? I see one flagrant example that I just happen to remember was not. I also seem to recall a twisted nose and gushing blood.

Perhaps we are all just being biased fans, but it really stretches the imagination to picture Manning or Brady not getting the benefit of the flag on a play like that.

I think where the fine thing gets under our skins is when Steelers defenders seem to be more highly scrutinized than defenders from other teams. I'd like to see the fine comparisons on that one. I'll be happy to admit that I'm wrong though if the stats should prove that.

Good question. I can only find stats up to 2010, so I'll use them.

Fines for defensive plays

2010
Cardinals 4 Times
Packers 4 Times (including a defensive special teams penalty)
Lions 4 Times
Panthers 4 Times
Steelers: 5 Times (+ 1 more for a fight)
Eagles: 5 Times
Ravens 5 Times (+ 1 more for a fight)
Vikings 6 Times.
Titans 6 Times (+ 2 more for fights)

2009

Steelers 3 Times
Dallas 3 Times
Ravens 3 Times
Packers 3 Times
Patriots 3 Times
Cardinals 4 Times
Eagles 5 Times
Titans 7 Times

2008

Steelers 2 Times
Packers 2 TimesPanthers 2 Times
Patriots 2 Times
Saints 2 Times
Bears 3 Times
Raiders 3 Times
Titans 4 Times
Vikings 4 Times
______________

I did look for 2011, but couldn't find info. When searching through google for "NFL Fines defense," Steelers defenders came up much less often than a lot of other teams, so anecdotal evidence suggests that it follows this trend.

So. Are they more highly scrutinized? No more than a third of the league.

[Craic]

While we're at it... Let's take a look at individuals who are fined. Steelers player first, then others fined the same number of times.

2010

Fined 1 Time
Steelers: Chris Kemoeatu, Clark Haggans, Hines Ward, Ike Tayler, LaMarr Woodley
Others: 92 Players


Fined 2 Times

Steelers: 0
Others: 9 Players


Fined 3 Times

Steelers: 0
Others: 0

Fined 4 Times

Steelers: Harrison
Others: 2 (Cortland Finnegan, Ray Edwards)

2009

Fined 1 Time

Steelers: James Harrison, Ryan Mundy, Tyrone Carter
Others: 71 players

Fined 2 Times

Steelers: 0
Others: 5 Players

Fined 3 Times

Steelers: 0
Others: 1 (Chad Ochocinco)


2008 is about the same... Though the Steelers have 2 players (Ward and Clark) with two fines, among 8 multiple offenders.

I hear you in the back yelling, "But wait, James Harrison has been fined six times!" Yes, let's take a look at how many times others have been fined to see if he's outside the norm.

Haynesworth: 4 Times 2x Titans 2x Redskins
Richie Incognito: 4 Times (guess he wasn't so incognito... sorry, couldn't resist) Rams
Sean Taylor: 4 Times Redskins
Ray Lewis: 5 Times Ravens
Vince Wilfork: 5 Times Patriots
Warren Sapp: 5 Times 2x Oakland 3x Bucs
Ward: 6 Times Pittsburgh
Harrison: 6 Times Pittsburgh
Samari Rolle: 6 Times 2x Ravens 4x Titans
Joey Porter: 6 Times 2x Steelers 4x Dolphins
Terrell Owens: 6 Times 2x SF, 3x Dallas 1x Bengals
Finnegan: 7 Times Titans
Ochocinco: 8 Times Bengals
Randy Moss: 10 Times 9x Vikings 1x Patriots


Sorry people, the league does not target Steelers players for fines. If anything, the Vikings, Bengals, and Titans have just as strong, if not a stronger argument than we do. So can we finally bury the whining already?

[Chidi29]

And boom goes the dynamite.

[X-Terminator]

There's only 2 surprises about that list. That ANY Patriot was fined 5 times, and that Cortland Finnegan has only been fined 7 times. The dirtiest player in the league has only 7 fines? He's not trying hard enough. The Titans sure were a dirty team during Fisher's last few years, though.

Anyway, those are pretty compelling lists, Preacher. That's all I'm willing to admit. Does not change my opinion of the league or Goodell one iota.

[Craic]

There's only 2 surprises about that list. That ANY Patriot was fined 5 times, and that Cortland Finnegan has only been fined 7 times. The dirtiest player in the league has only 7 fines? He's not trying hard enough. The Titans sure were a dirty team during Fisher's last few years, though.

Anyway, those are pretty compelling lists, Preacher. That's all I'm willing to admit. Does not change my opinion of the league or Goodell one iota.

Laughing my rear-end off!!

I really wan't trying to change anyone's opinion of the league or Goodell. Instead, I just wanted to bring perspective on the fact that we aren't targeted. Whether he has too much power, whether the fines are getting out of hand, etc. etc. is a completely different topic.

[Galax Steeler]

Not necessarily. You can hit a guy clean 50 times and DRC hit Leftwich like he did once and get a fine.

Getting hit more doesn't always mean being fined more.

I am just saying you have more of a chance then a quarterback that don't get hit more.

[steeldawg]

Since 2004

Fines for Hits on Ben R.

Phil Taylor 12-14-11 $15,000 Hit on QB

Raheem Brock 09-22-11 $15,000 Hitting below the knee

Haloti Ngata 12-06-2010 $15,000. Struck in head

Richard Seymour 11-22-2010 $25,000. Hitting him with an open hand in the jaw/Ejected from game.

Total fines = 4
Total dollar amount = $70,000
Total ejections = 1

Fines for Hits on Tom Brady

Richard Seymour 10-08-2011 $7,500 for throwing QB to the ground.

Antonio Garay 09-22-11 $15,000 Hitting below the knee

LaMarr Woodley 11-19-2010 $12,500

Haloti Ngata 10-09-2009 $5000 (struck in head)

Total fines = 4
Total dollar amount = $40,000
Total ejections = 0

Fines for Hits on Peyton Manning (Going back to 2003 for equal years)

10-16-2009 Jacob Ford $5,000 Unnecessary roughness.

10-16-2009 Kale Vanden Bosch $5,000 hit on QB.

Total fines = 2
Total dollar amount = $10,000
Total ejections = 0


Seems to me, you're simply wrong.

Nice breakdown, I had no idea but i guess it dispells the notion of a conspiracy against the steelers.

[TheRuneMeister]

Why is it that I am sitting on my couch in Denmark and have a better grasp of the rules than some actual NFL players, and whole truck-load of die-hard NFL fans out there. Is it just that everyone is halfway retarded, or am I unusually bright? :D
I know i am being terse, but I simply don't understand why these people don't know the rulebook by heart if the game of football is their entire life. Same goes for tv announcers btw.

[HollywoodSteel]

While we're at it... Let's take a look at individuals who are fined. Steelers player first, then others fined the same number of times.

2010

Fined 1 Time
Steelers: Chris Kemoeatu, Clark Haggans, Hines Ward, Ike Tayler, LaMarr Woodley
Others: 92 Players


Fined 2 Times

Steelers: 0
Others: 9 Players


Fined 3 Times

Steelers: 0
Others: 0

Fined 4 Times

Steelers: Harrison
Others: 2 (Cortland Finnegan, Ray Edwards)

2009

Fined 1 Time

Steelers: James Harrison, Ryan Mundy, Tyrone Carter
Others: 71 players

Fined 2 Times

Steelers: 0
Others: 5 Players

Fined 3 Times

Steelers: 0
Others: 1 (Chad Ochocinco)


2008 is about the same... Though the Steelers have 2 players (Ward and Clark) with two fines, among 8 multiple offenders.

I hear you in the back yelling, "But wait, James Harrison has been fined six times!" Yes, let's take a look at how many times others have been fined to see if he's outside the norm.

Haynesworth: 4 Times 2x Titans 2x Redskins
Richie Incognito: 4 Times (guess he wasn't so incognito... sorry, couldn't resist) Rams
Sean Taylor: 4 Times Redskins
Ray Lewis: 5 Times Ravens
Vince Wilfork: 5 Times Patriots
Warren Sapp: 5 Times 2x Oakland 3x Bucs
Ward: 6 Times Pittsburgh
Harrison: 6 Times Pittsburgh
Samari Rolle: 6 Times 2x Ravens 4x Titans
Joey Porter: 6 Times 2x Steelers 4x Dolphins
Terrell Owens: 6 Times 2x SF, 3x Dallas 1x Bengals
Finnegan: 7 Times Titans
Ochocinco: 8 Times Bengals
Randy Moss: 10 Times 9x Vikings 1x Patriots


Sorry people, the league does not target Steelers players for fines. If anything, the Vikings, Bengals, and Titans have just as strong, if not a stronger argument than we do. So can we finally bury the whining already?

Okay, Preacher, I guess you'll always win in the stat game if we're going to count players getting fined for uniform violations and such. But I think you know this is not what people are upset about. Really the question is, are the Steelers UNFAIRLY penalized and fined more than other teams, giving the others teams an advantage? I'll admit, this is a very subjective question and naturally people are going to be biased.

Personally, I don't believe the Comish has any personal vendetta against the Steelers. I do however think he prioritizes political expedience over justice, and perhaps that helps him make the NFL more money, and since that's his job and all, I can't say that from his perspective he should do anything differently if it's working for him. I do believe that we've been in the wrong place at the wrong time politically and have gotten heavier scrutiny as a result. JH happened to have two knockouts on "black Sunday" and every "epidemic" needs someone to blame. It was out of pure convenience, not malice, that he became the whipping boy even though one of his hits was perfectly legal, and the other was far less flagrant that the one from that douche in New England.

It's very hard to prove that the Steelers are flagged unfairly, but it isn't hard to understand human nature. If JH does something borderline, or the ref isn't quite sure in game time speed if it was a foul, he is more likely going to err on the side of throwing the flag than not... and from his perspective, HE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD. The ref is acting in his own best interest which is expected.

The Ben accusation and subsequent suspension falls into similar territory in a lot of fans' minds. Political expedience trumped justice, or so it appeared. I'm not trying to open that can of worms on this thread. I only use it as an example because it added to the cumulative weight of injustice that fans PERCEIVE. Again, I don't think there is any kind of conspiracy afoot. Just some bad place and time situations that worked against us more strongly than was probably warranted from a pure fairness point of view.

Do I think it kind of sucks? Sure. Is it the end of the world? No. Just one more thing to discuss civilly on this board. :)

[HollywoodSteel]

And just to be clear, Preach, I really do appreciate the stats you've presented. I think they are interesting as are all of your contributions to this forum. I realize I seem to be moving the goal posts on you, but I'm really not trying to "win" any point scoring debate. I actually agree with you that some, if not most of our perceived "hatred" from the league is a fallacy. I'm just really trying to get to the root of the issue as to why Steeler fans feel the way they do and if there's any merit at all to it.

For the most part, these injustices against the Steelers have not yielded terrible results. For example, we won the game where Ben gotten his nose broken with no flag thrown and it just made the victory sweeter. We also went to the Super Bowl the year Ben got suspended and he's probably a better person as a result of the whole thing.

But it is a mistake to be results oriented in these matters and to believe that the good results of the past indicate what's to come. The James Harrison perception is the most troublesome. It has already led to a one game suspension (in a game that didn't yield good results) and his he is personally named in a law suit by former players as someone who should be kicked out of the league. See, this is where perception becomes reality. Do I blame Roger for this? Well, yeah, even though I don't think he has any personal animosity toward James (or didn't until he lit the flame under the guy and got some venom back). And if JH gets more suspensions or is drummed out of the league because of the perception that he's a "dirty player" it will be no skin off Roger's nose. Collateral damage. No big whoop.

Now, does Goodell get more blame for all kinds of things than he deserves? You bet he does. But it's his game, we're just playing it. Live by perception, die by perception. He can't have it both ways. If he's going to make JH the whipping boy in the fight for player safety (oh, by the way, how are plans for that 18 game season coming along?), and he's going to make Ben the whipping boy in the fight against player misbehavior off the field (he sure nipped that problem in the bud with his iron fist), then I'm not going to shed a tear for him if he becomes the whipping boy in the fight against everything that's wrong with the NFL.

[suitanim]

I think we'll find out today, won't we?

[86WARD]

You guys do realize that it's the preseason...nothing counts in the preseason. Give Godell a break.

[fansince'76]

Put a bunch of monkeys in a room and eventually they'll write Shakespeare.

So I'm taking this as a compliment to the league.

Yeah, it was pretty much an insult to monkeys everywhere. Sorry, monkeys!

[SMR]

Yeah, it was pretty much an insult to monkeys everywhere. Sorry, monkeys!

ROFL

[GBMelBlount]

I think we'll find out today, won't we?

Still waiting...

I guess the big thing here in my opinion in so many of these cases is that the judgement of intent can be very subjective....

But when somebody leaves their feet in order to get their shoulder high enough to hit a 6 foot+ quarterback in the face....

well, it is very difficult to argue that he left his feet and launched himself for any other reason than to do that as it is most useful for hitting a quarterback in the head...nothing else.

this is about as flagrant and with intent as is it gets.

[bayz101]

The fine will likely be announced mid-week, not today

[Craic]

Okay, Preacher, I guess you'll always win in the stat game if we're going to count players getting fined for uniform violations and such. But I think you know this is not what people are upset about. Really the question is, are the Steelers UNFAIRLY penalized and fined more than other teams, giving the others teams an advantage? I'll admit, this is a very subjective question and naturally people are going to be biased.

That's actually a misrepresentation of what I was saying. If you look at all three posts put together, I showed specifically how, when looking at defensive plays that result in fines, there was no reason to assume bias against the Steelers, which is exactly what people are upset about. The question wasn't about penalties. It started because of a comment that players hitting Steelers QB's are never fined. I have shown that to be untrue. I then expanded the issue of fines to show that there is no bias the other way either, that our defensive players don't get fined (based on another post that specifically asked whether our defense gets more fines than others). The post you quoted was only to show the overarching picture, that when all league fines are also taken into account, there is no bias.

So the answer to your question, at least for being fined, is a definitive no. For penalties, I haven't yet looked it up, but I would imagine that the stats actually track right along with the stats here, especially if you look at the names of the teams that show up. They tend to be harder-hitting, gritty teams like Green Bay, Baltimore, Titans, and even the Eagles to a lesser extent.



Personally, I don't believe the Comish has any personal vendetta against the Steelers. I do however think he prioritizes political expedience over justice, and perhaps that helps him make the NFL more money, and since that's his job and all, I can't say that from his perspective he should do anything differently if it's working for him.

I think that's a very fair assessment.


I do believe that we've been in the wrong place at the wrong time politically and have gotten heavier scrutiny as a result. JH happened to have two knockouts on "black Sunday" and every "epidemic" needs someone to blame. It was out of pure convenience, not malice, that he became the whipping boy even though one of his hits was perfectly legal, and the other was far less flagrant that the one from that douche in New England.

This is the result, IMO, of the "Blood draws a bigger penalty" mindset that's crept into sports, especially hockey. I think Harrison also set a target on his back by opening his mouth a number of times. Moreover, the Steelers defense has been known for the big blow 'em up type hitting. . . or has anyone forgotten about Ryan Clark. So I would expect there to be extra attention. However, for the most part, the attention is drawn by teams sending in tapes to the commissioner. It's usually just the high-profile hits that are national televised that are acted on without much else done.


It's very hard to prove that the Steelers are flagged unfairly, but it isn't hard to understand human nature. If JH does something borderline, or the ref isn't quite sure in game time speed if it was a foul, he is more likely going to err on the side of throwing the flag than not... and from his perspective, HE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD. The ref is acting in his own best interest which is expected.

Exactly. And the fault of that lies at the feet of Harrison, because he refused to put his helmet on the football, or rather, where the ball would be if a player was carrying it at his side. Then he went out and made comments like, "I want to hurt players." He clarified that he wasn't talking about injuring them, and I think his mentality is absolutely right. But he pulled a Rush Limbaugh. What he said very well may be right, but it was the absolutely worst time and way to say it.


The Ben accusation and subsequent suspension falls into similar territory in a lot of fans' minds. Political expedience trumped justice, or so it appeared. I'm not trying to open that can of worms on this thread. I only use it as an example because it added to the cumulative weight of injustice that fans PERCEIVE. Again, I don't think there is any kind of conspiracy afoot. Just some bad place and time situations that worked against us more strongly than was probably warranted from a pure fairness point of view.

Without dragging that issue into another thread, I think you touch on something that everyone forgets. The role of the commissioner is to make sure that the NFL makes as much money as possible for the owners. The owners higher him to guide the league. If a bunch of chipmunks sat on the 50 yard line with signs that said Ray Lewis pulled a knife on them, the commissioner has to act to make sure the general public keeps giving money to the NFL, and that may mean banning Lewis for a few weeks and making him take classes in Chipmunk sensitivity training. Do I like it? No. But that's his job.


Do I think it kind of sucks? Sure. Is it the end of the world? No. Just one more thing to discuss civilly on this board. :)

And discussing it, brings more hits to the board, pushing more hits on the internet in general, pushing more companies to advertise on all things football, which lifts the sport in general, thus, the Commissioner has accomplished his primary job: Keep the sport in the headlines for positive things (punishment of "bad" players [yes, I used quotations for all you apologists]) and earn more money.

[katmandu]

Why is it that I am sitting on my couch in Denmark and have a better grasp of the rules than some actual NFL players, and whole truck-load of die-hard NFL fans out there. Is it just that everyone is halfway retarded, or am I unusually bright? :DThe Internet is FASTER in Denmark! That's why!

[suitanim]

I thought Tuesday was "fine day"?

Does this mean he's, um.........off the hook?

[Craic]

I thought Tuesday was "fine day"?

Does this mean he's, um.........off the hook?

I don't know, but I'd think that wouldn't apply during the preseason. Since games are happening throughout the week, the fines would probably come as they are handed out, rather than a specific day.

[suitanim]

But we cleared week one of the preseason. I haven't seen ANY fines for anything, and we KNOW that's not going to be the case. I think Goodell averages about 12 a week...

[Count Steeler]

But we cleared week one of the preseason. I haven't seen ANY fines for anything, and we KNOW that's not going to be the case. I think Goodell averages about 12 a week...

Is Goodell on vacation? Or perhaps since it was a preseason game the tape got lost or the tape review committee does not have an angle that they can make a conclusive judgment?

EVEN the replacement refs got the call right. I guess they got reprimanded for that as well?

[suitanim]

Is Goodell on vacation? Or perhaps since it was a preseason game the tape got lost or the tape review committee does not have an angle that they can make a conclusive judgment?

EVEN the replacement refs got the call right. I guess they got reprimanded for that as well?

The NFL decided that they would NOT utilize the millions of sources available through the interwebs and the networks, and would only analyze this.............on BETAMAX!

[zulater]

Does anyone doubt for as minute that James Harrison would be suspended for a minimum of two games for the same hit?

[SteelerFanInStl]

I just saw it on nfl.com. DRC was fined $21k for the hit.

link (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000051397/article/eagles-rodgerscromartie-fined-21k-for-leftwich-hit?module=HP11_headline_stack)

[X-Terminator]

Posted in the Around the NFL forum, but not everyone reads it, so thanks for posting the story here. :thumbsup: