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Chidi29
07-20-2012, 04:44 PM
Run to pass ratio. Use of a fullback. Amount of the no huddle. The number of angry mobs. All things that have been discussed as to what Steelers' fans should be expecting from Todd Haley's offense. But for the most part, they've been nothing but generalzations instead of actual data.

What shutdown24 and I have done this summer is watch nearly every Chiefs' plays from the 2009 season on. That was as far back as we could go on NFL Rewind. The only ones we did not watch were weeks 1,5, and 6 in 2009 because Rewind did not have them up. And we stopped after the 3rd quarter of blowouts either way for fear of it skewing the numbers. In all, we watched 2098 plays.

This was broken down into two parts. There's a statistical side to it along with the X's and O's. I didn't want to just look at one aspect. We'll start with the numbers followed by the X's and O's.

*There would be more to the X's and O's part but I haven't been able to contact shutdown since the 4th. So I hope everything is ok with him. He watched the entire 2009 season so I don't have eyes on that. I watched the 2nd half of 2010 and 2011. But a big shoutout to shutdown for helping me out a lot and trading ideas on how to collect/present the data.

----------------

What we did for each game was break every play into three parts. The formation, down and distance, and play type. Formation was written the way you'll see it on the field. Two numbers that tell you the number of RBs followed by the number of TEs. For example, 12 personnel would indicate one running back and two tight ends. Meaning, there are also two wide receivers. I will be the first to admit that it was sometimes subjective as to what to call each formation. For example, is a tight end in the slot a tight end or a wide receiver? I had a few basic rules to keep my count as consistent as possible.

1. Any RB lined up out of the backfield was considered a WR.
2. Any TE in the slot was a TE.
3. Any TE standing up as the end man on the line was a WR.
4. Any TE clearly in the backfield was counted as a back.
5. A WR in a two point stance was a WR and note a TE (unsual, but they did this with Chris Chambers).

Down and distance was set up in the following manner.

1st/10+
2nd/10+
2/7-9
2/4-6
2/<3
3/10+
3/7-9
3/4-6
3/<3

And the plays were broken down as the following.

Pass
Shotgun pass
Run
Shotgun run

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I attempted to attach the file with all of shutdown and my data but it's way over the KB limit. Not sure if there's anything I can do to work around that. So if you really want to see all the data we collected, I can email it you personally or something.

But here are the conclusions we drew.

The number of empty sets Todd Haley had from 2009 to 2012, TOTAL. 60
The number Bruce Arians had in 14 weeks last season. 114

Conclusion: Obviously, we're likely to see a lot less empty set.

Average number of plays with a FB (TE in the backfield counted as a FB) in Haley's three seasons, 258 (16.1 per game). Haley ran out of FB sets 58.3% of the time.
Number of plays with a FB for Arians last season: 159 (11.4 per game)

Conclusion: We'll see more FB under Haley, especially with David Johnson now strictly a FB, but it doesn't look like it'll be a the major increase some make it out to be.

Haley's most frequently used personnel. 11 (747 plays in three years) and 21 (568). 12 had also gotten a big increase in 2010 and 2011 compared to 2009. He used it just 40 times in 2009 compared to an average of 127 times in 2010 and 2011. For the record, 11 was commonly used on 3rd downs (70 times alone last year) and 3rd and long situations.

Haley's first down preferences based on personnel from 2010 and 2011.

1st/10 personnel, 2010 and 2011. Big four
21: 131, 105 = 236
11: 79, 96 = 175
12: 81, 48 = 129
22: 24, 28 = 52

And his percentages of run/pass on first down from 2009-2012.

1st down %. 09-12
48.7%R
27.7%P
18%SP
5.6%SR
54.3R/45.7P

Haley's offense averaged 52 draws from 2009-2012. I don't know an exact number of how many Arians had, but I knew we rarely ran draws. And when we did, they were normally on 3rd and the farm situations or backed up near our own goalline. So expect to see more draw plays in any given situation.

Of the 824 first down plays the Chiefs' ran in those three years, 427, or 51.8% resulted in gains of 3 yards or less. The Chiefs' had 248 3rd/7+, 30%, in those three years.
Conclusions: Tough to say here because unfortunately, there's nothing to compare it to. A lot of these numbers are relative so it's hard to say if the Chiefs' offense is being efficient or not. Not picking up four or more yards on over half your first down plays seems a bit discouraging but again, it's hard to say anything definitvely.


And finally, a look at his most frequent personnel uses on a given down/distance (minimum of 15 plays). Broken down for each year. In pararentheses is the exact number of plays ran out of the total from that personnel. For example, in 2009, Haley ran the ball 68% of the time out of 22 personnel on 1/10. 33 of his 49 plays from 22 were runs, giving you 68%.

Highest percentages (min 15 plays)
2009:
68% run: 1/10 22. (33/49)
68% run : 2/10 21. (17/25)
64% SP : 3/4-6 11. (21/33)
64% SP : 2/7-9 11. (14/22)
62% SP: 3/7-9 11. (15/24)
60% run : 1/10 12.(9/15)


2010:
85% SP : 3/4-6 11. (23/27)
84% run : 2/4-6 12. (16/19)
73% run : 2nd down total 22. (22/30)
67% SP : 3/7-9 11. (12/18)
66% run : 2nd down total 12. (43/56)
66% SP : 3rd down total 11, (50/76)
63% run : 1/10 21. (83/131)
60% run : 1/10 12. (49/81)
60% pass : 2/4-6 11. (9/15)

2011:
82% SP : 3rd down total 20. (14/17)
77% SP : 3rd down total 10. (13/17)
75% run : 1/10 22. (21/28)
73% SP : 3/7-9 11. (11/15)
72% SP : 3/4-6 11. (13/18)
61% run : 1/10 21. (65/105)
61% run : 2nd down total 21. (31/51)
60% SP : 3rd down total 11. (42/70)

Conclusions: Nothing groundbreaking here, to be honest. A lot of it can be predicted just based off personnel and down/distance (team ran a lot out of 22, passed a lot from 11 on 3rd down). But it's still nice to see the numbers.

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Next up I'll be getting into the X's and O's of his offense.

Chidi29
07-20-2012, 04:57 PM
Now we'll look at the play tendencies he had on the field. This is only collected from what I saw from the second half of 2010 and all of 2011 (but it is the most recent and relevant so that's nice). I couldn't get in touch with shutdown for his breakdown, unfortunately. I'll start with 2010 and then move into last year.

2010

Pass Tendencies
- Smash Seam
- Drive/Mesh (3rd down, gotta have it)
- All curls

All basic route concepts. Smash seam is simply your smash route (corner/curl) but instead of the corner, the slot receiver runs down the seam. Quick picture to illustrate I just made in paint.

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/SmashSeam.png

I'll get more into the Drive/Mesh route when I talk about last year. But it is definitely a staple of Haley's offense.

And then you have all curls. Again, self explanatory. All receivers run curls with the back check/releasing on an out route. Picture of it pre-snap formation in a game against Denver.

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/AllCurls.png

Run Tendencies

- Lead Strong
- Toss Weak
- “Bronco” package w/ Shaun Smith

Haley used Jamaal Charles' speed on the outside with the toss. And like the Steelers have done with Doug Legursky, they used former Browns DT Shaun Smith in a few goalline packages. Mostly used as the lead blocker but had one carry for a TD so the FB dive was installed and practiced.

Other Tendencies

- Lots of TE/FB pre-snap motion
- Divide motion for crackback
- Deep ball between 40s
- TE off line. Pull, kickout EMOL or SLB
- Run away from WR motion
- 3x1 passing sets

Divide motion is the receiver typically splitting the space between he and the EMOL in half to crack a linebacker. Often came on toss plays to create running room to the outside and let the FB have a better shot to take the CB head on (a matchup advantage for the offense).

The deep ball between the 40s is pretty common for any team. Prime chance to take a shot deep on 1st down. Todd Haley isn't an exception to that. Did it three times alone in Week 14.

Picture of where the TE would line up when he pulls and kicks out the EMOL. Happened at almost a 100% clip.

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/TE_kickout.png

There were a good bit of having a tight end in a three point and a receiver to one side but when they went four receivers, you usually got a 3x1. Can get a tare route on the frontside with either slant/fade on the back depending on the coverage. When they went 2x2, the receivers to each side were stacked outside the numbers. Picture.

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/2x2.png

-----------------------------------------

2011 It's a little more detailed in pass/run info because I saw the whole season as opposed to half of 2010.

Pass Tendencies

- Drive/Mesh route (3rd down, gotta have it)
- Swap Boot/Boot
- Spot (Curl/Flat)
- Tare

Like I said, the Drive/Mesh route is a staple of Haley's offense. The drive is the X receiver, weak side of the formation, running a drag route. Mesh is where the X runs a drive underneath a strong side slot receiver running a drive too in an attempt to create a rub vs man coverage. The strong side receiver always sets themesh point where the X runs underneath. The X never runs atop of the other. First, the route concept in Paint and then pre-snap formations from the games. The last is pre-snap of the mesh.

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/DriveRoute.png

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/Drive1.png

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/Drive2.png

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/Drive3.png

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/Mesh1.png

The most important distinction to determine if the X will run the drive is based off his split. He will never run it when he's on top or outside the numbers. He'll always he inside the numbers when he runs it.

Haley used this all the time on 3rd downs. I charted four times in Week 4, on a 3rd and 8 in Week 5, two times in Week 7, on the first series on 3rd down in Week 8 and again on 1st and 10 later in the game, once on 3rd and 9 in Week 9, once again in Week 10, once on 3rd and goal in Week 11, two more times the next week, one 3rd and 13 in Week 13, and on 3rd and 5 the first series of Week 14. So that's 16 times in 14 games and I probably missed a couple more (wasn't charting it the first few weeks until the pattern came up). It's his "go to" play, for sure.

The boot/swap boot came off their run stretch in the run game. Haley did a nice job using the run game to set it up. Just a simple bootleg, usually to the TE in the flats. The swapboot has the #2 TE, the U, running a cross. Picture of the regular boot followed by the swap and different variations of it.

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/QBbootZone.png

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/QBbootZone2.png

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/SwapBoot.png

The spot route, as I wrote, is curl/flat combo. Often you get a corner route too though not in the illustration I have.

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/SpotRoute.png

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/Spot1.png

Spot
Z = curl
Y = corner
H = flat
X = dig
W = curl


And then finally, there were some instances of the Tare route. 3x1 set (or sometimes empty) with the Y and strong slot receiver running out routes with the #1 to the strong side on a go route. You can put a lot of stress on the flat defender to try and cover both outside breaking routes in zone. And you can put stress on the safety if they're playing man because he'll usually play off pre-snap to not show the one-on-one coverage on the outside with the #1 receiver.

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/Tare.png

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/Tare_game.png

Run Tendencies

- Outside Zone
- Lead Strong
- Power O

Some of your basic run schemes. The stretch outside zone play (think the Colts with Tom Moore) was frequently used with Jamaal Charles to let him get to the outside. When he tore his ACL in Week 2, the Chiefs adjusted to more of an inside running game with Lead Strong and Power O (what the Steelers did with Kemoeatu).

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/OutsideZoneWeak.png

X - Split outside the #'s, stalks CB
LT - Base 5 tech
LG - Combo 1 tech, work to WILL
C - 1 tech
RG - Chip 3 tech, work to MIKE
RT - Down block to 3 tech
Y - Base backside 5 tech
Z - Jet motion from left to right

Outside Zone w/ FB Lead

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/OutsideZoneFBStrong.png

Outside Zone (FB used as window dressing)

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/OutsideZone.png

Power O

http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg608/Chidi2929/PowerO.png

LT - Base 5 tech
LG - Pull, kickout SAM
C - Base 1 tech
RG - Combo 3 tech
RT - Combo 3 tech, work to MIKE
Y - Base 5 tech

Other Tendencies

Often running away from TE motion

Just that one minor thing I picked up on.

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If you have any questions or want anything clarified (really haven't proofread it and I knew I threw a lot out there), feel free to ask.

polamalubeast
07-20-2012, 05:16 PM
The steelers must use their best players...The three best players in the Steelers offense is Ben Roethlisberger, Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown

When Haley was with the cards, the cards were a pass happy and this team has been in the super bowl in 2008

The important thing is that the offense of the Steelers are more efficient, especially in the red zone and the Steelers must allowed fewer sacks!



The steelers have no problem to move the ball, but they are not very good to finish the drive with a TD...They must improved it!

SteelGhost
07-20-2012, 07:43 PM
Thank for this thread Chidi and Shut, you did an amazing job.

This alone made me happy :


The number of empty sets Todd Haley had from 2009 to 2012, TOTAL. 60
The number Bruce Arians had in 14 weeks last season. 114

Conclusion: Obviously, we're likely to see a lot less empty set.


EDIT : I don't hate Arians, I just didn't like the abuse of empty sets.

43Hitman
07-20-2012, 09:33 PM
Great breakdown Chidi. I love this kind of stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if you found a little note in your inbox from someone on the Steelers staff. :chuckle:

Chidi29
07-20-2012, 10:02 PM
Thanks guys. It's certainly not a say-all, end-all, but it gives a little more insight into his offense. Obviously, he has a different set of players in Pittsburgh than Kansas City so we'll see how he adjusts. As polamalubeast pointed out, Haley has shown the ability to adjust based on his team's strength.

salamander
07-20-2012, 10:19 PM
You guys have way too much time on your hands. :chuckle:

Seriously though, great work. Definitely very informative.

steelatl
07-21-2012, 08:09 AM
Since Weiss was the OC in 2010 and 2011 was an injury riddled short season I wonder how much can actually be inferred from this data. I tend to think the Cards 2008 season and Chiefs 2009 would be more indicative of what we might see.

suitanim
07-21-2012, 08:33 AM
Um......hate to be the fly in the ointment here, but I actually think Haley will bring more of what he did with the Cards to the Steelers table than what he did at KC.

KC did not have the talent that Pitt did and does, especially at QB. KC did not have the defense that Pitt did and does. And Haley was a HC at KC, and an OC in the desert.

TMC
07-21-2012, 09:20 AM
I think you will see a new evolution of the offense. Haley does a nice job of utilizing his weapons. The biggest change you will likely see, the Steelers like running between the tackles and do not push as many runs wide. It is harder to be effective wide in the NFL due to the speed of the linebackers and secondary. Haley likes to get tackle out more than we are accustomed to seeing. The Steelers run between the tackles close to 60% of the time. Haley's history puts him much closer to 50% with him being a little more left handed outside (slight edge).

I think we will see more drag routes as Chidi pointed out. Not so sure it will be the drive/mesh combination. The Chiefs were rubbing their receiver open. I think a lot of that had to do with the overall lack of talent at receiver. If Miller pushes the middle and the LB opts to not go with him, you just take the bigger gain. If he goes with Miller, you hit the cross. It gives more open space as opposed to keeping your TE in to rub that DB. Also, Antonio Brown's quickness out of his breaks gets him great separation and most DBs do not want to get on him because he shakes them so well, so he should be getting clean inside releases. Sanders as well. There are some route combinations I have been looking at that, with the Steelers personnel, Haley could exploit and they are the type that fits in his wheel house. For example:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1PiTuBhELbU/SV_Re62Ff3I/AAAAAAAAATo/7QOCHbHzDis/s320/levels.gif
Levels

http://smartfootball.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Patriots-gamewinner.gif
Smash

With Brown's quickness and RAC, it would simply make sense to put him in space underneath to exploit those abilities. Same with Sanders. If the FS ever decides to not help with Wallace, you just burn them down the field. If the LBs bite down, you hit over their heads between the safety gaps. With the speed the Steelers are putting on the field at WR, their ability to push Miller down the middle, and some potential time with an improved line, we will likely see less chase down the field and more letting the WRs move those chains. If the running game has any improvement, it will simply enhance the passing game.

GBMelBlount
07-21-2012, 09:44 AM
ALLD

The biggest change you will likely see, the Steelers like running between the tackles and do not push as many runs wide. It is harder to be effective wide in the NFL due to the speed of the linebackers and secondary.


I think this is why a lot of people like the idea of Redman getting more carries. He has been pretty solid off tackle in the limited carries he has had.

I also think we have 3 very quick backs on the outside too...Baron, Rainey & Mendy of course.

Not to say Mendy can't run inside, just that arguably his biggest asset is his speed and quickness.


ALLD

If Miller pushes the middle and the LB opts to not go with him, you just take the bigger gain. If he goes with Miller, you hit the cross. It gives more open space as opposed to keeping your TE in to rub that DB.

Also, Antonio Brown's quickness out of his breaks gets him great separation and most DBs do not want to get on him because he shakes them so well, so he should be getting clean inside releases. Sanders as well.

There are some route combinations I have been looking at that, with the Steelers personnel, Haley could exploit and they are the type that fits in his wheel house.

This is something I am excited about (and makes very good sense in my opinion) as BOTH Brown and Sanders are extremely fast and elusive and Ben holding onto the ball less is arguably a good thing.

I am not saying it is Ben's style but I think we have the receivers to REALLY dominate using the short passing game just as Brady and a few others do.

Fully healthy, Sanders could be as productive as Brown this season.

Chidi29
07-21-2012, 11:52 AM
Since Weiss was the OC in 2010 and 2011 was an injury riddled short season I wonder how much can actually be inferred from this data. I tend to think the Cards 2008 season and Chiefs 2009 would be more indicative of what we might see.

Remember that Haley's first coaching job was as an offensive assistant with the Jets from 97-2000. From 97-99, Weiss was the OC. So there's a good chance Haley learned a lot from Weiss as he broke into the coaching ranks.

And while Weiss called the offense, I'm guessing the offensive-minded Haley oversaw and signed off on a lot of what he did.

Chidi29
07-21-2012, 11:56 AM
Um......hate to be the fly in the ointment here, but I actually think Haley will bring more of what he did with the Cards to the Steelers table than what he did at KC.

KC did not have the talent that Pitt did and does, especially at QB. KC did not have the defense that Pitt did and does. And Haley was a HC at KC, and an OC in the desert.

I am trying to look at an overall philosophy. I'm not talking about what the Chiefs' offensive rank or overall effectiveness was. I know there will be a lot more talent in Pittsburgh than he had with Kansas City. But every coach has basic principles no matter what the talent group he has is.

I would have looked at Arizona but Rewind only goes back to 2009.

suitanim
07-22-2012, 06:27 AM
I'm not faulting all that hard work...it's awesome. I just think we can learn more from simpler things. Like run/pass ratio. In 2008, the Cards ran 340 times and passed 630. They were second in the league in passing, dead last in the league in rushing. They also tied for third in scoring.

I think Haley is going to pass a lot more then people expect. I think he's going to run a lot more empty sets then he did in KC, and won't employ a FB as much as people think. Many peoples head will asplode...

Personally, I could care less. I just want to win...

GBMelBlount
07-22-2012, 07:44 AM
suitanim

I think Haley is going to pass a lot more then people expect.

I would not be surprised if they emphasized the running game earlier in the season, especially if it si working reasonably well.


I think he's going to run a lot more empty sets then he did in KC, and won't employ a FB as much as people think. Many peoples head will asplode...

Why.

Simply because of the strength of our receiving corp?

43Hitman
07-22-2012, 02:25 PM
If I remember correctly that 2008 Cards team didn't have a very good backfield. So that would explain the lack of rushing attempts. Its already been said that Haley utilizes the talent given. I certainly can see some nice things with our WR corps, but our backfield is better than that 2008 squad the Cards put on the field. Even without Mendy.

Chidi29
07-22-2012, 02:38 PM
I'm not faulting all that hard work...it's awesome. I just think we can learn more from simpler things. Like run/pass ratio. In 2008, the Cards ran 340 times and passed 630. They were second in the league in passing, dead last in the league in rushing. They also tied for third in scoring.

I think Haley is going to pass a lot more then people expect. I think he's going to run a lot more empty sets then he did in KC, and won't employ a FB as much as people think. Many peoples head will asplode...

Personally, I could care less. I just want to win...

Sure, Haley's offense will probably look more like what we saw in Arizona because you're dealing with a similar skill set. But I didn't want to just look at run/pass ratio and that was one very tiny part of what I looked at. And for the record, season totals of run vs pass is very misleading because what happens during the game can skew it. It's better to look at 1st quarter and 1st down run/pass splits when things such as the score and time left in the game aren't as big of factors. And when you do, the percentages come down a little bit. (65% pass on the year, 61% pass in the first quarter, 59% pass on first down. Still favors the pass, obviously, but a little less).

What's your evidence that we'll run more empty sets?

GBMelBlount
07-22-2012, 05:35 PM
If I remember correctly that 2008 Cards team didn't have a very good backfield. So that would explain the lack of rushing attempts. Its already been said that Haley utilizes the talent given.

I certainly can see some nice things with our WR corps, but our backfield is better than that 2008 squad the Cards put on the field. Even without Mendy.

This is what I am thinking too.

Wallace, Brown and a healthy Sanders alone will give defenses absolute fits and having the added element of an explosive back who can run or catch passes out of the backfield could really have defenses on their heels. Just my two cents.

I also sometimes wonder how fast Ben can go through his reads...

suitanim
07-23-2012, 05:44 AM
Sure, Haley's offense will probably look more like what we saw in Arizona because you're dealing with a similar skill set. But I didn't want to just look at run/pass ratio and that was one very tiny part of what I looked at. And for the record, season totals of run vs pass is very misleading because what happens during the game can skew it. It's better to look at 1st quarter and 1st down run/pass splits when things such as the score and time left in the game aren't as big of factors. And when you do, the percentages come down a little bit. (65% pass on the year, 61% pass in the first quarter, 59% pass on first down. Still favors the pass, obviously, but a little less).

What's your evidence that we'll run more empty sets?

Because we have 5 talented receivers (Miller included and assuming Wallace is back), and a top 5 QB. Mostly, though, because the Cardinals employed empty sets all the time under both Whis and Whis/Haley.

If Haley is going to play to strengths, why wouldn't he............utilize all this talent? The argument can't really be made form both sides....

GBMelBlount
07-23-2012, 06:53 AM
Because we have 5 talented receivers (Miller included and assuming Wallace is back), and a top 5 QB. Mostly, though, because the Cardinals employed empty sets all the time under both Whis and Whis/Haley.

If Haley is going to play to strengths, why wouldn't he............utilize all this talent? The argument can't really be made form both sides....

5 talented receivers? I would say we have arguably the best 5 receivers of about any team in the nfl.

I still like the idea of the defenses having to plan for the run and Ben having an explosive back to dump the ball off too, especially when under duress.

It is nice that we have so many options.

With all of the amazing offensive talent we have and an upgraded line Haley must feel like a kid in a candy store.

suitanim
07-23-2012, 09:01 AM
I don't care what we do, as long as we win. I just think it would be humorous to see people's reactions if we come out winging the ball even more than we have the last couple of years. And if we run lots of bubble screens. Out of empty sets.

Hindes204
07-23-2012, 09:23 AM
I don't care what we do, as long as we win. I just think it would be humorous to see people's reactions if we come out winging the ball even more than we have the last couple of years. And if we run lots of bubble screens. Out of empty sets.

I almost spit my coffee out on my computer when I read that...it made me crack up for some reason.

I feel the same way as suit actually. It doesnt matter how much the offense changes or doesnt change, as long as we rack up wins. I do think that just having a new OC will cause some growing pains in the first few games, and many people on this board will go insane with the "fire Haley" threads.........it will actually be entertaining to watch.

suitanim
07-23-2012, 09:37 AM
I don't care if we line up in the old split-back veer, as long as we A) Execute it and B) It works

That's what always cracked me up about the OC haters (I'm switching to the more generic term now that we have a "new victim" on the staff). We'd run that bubble screen, and the blocking WR would MISS HIS BLOCK, or the receiver would DROP THE BALL, or the QB would THROW AN ERRANT PASS, yet people would jump all over the OC for making a bad call when it was obvious that the failure of the play was a failure to execute.

suitanim
07-23-2012, 09:50 AM
I really don't want to distract form the hard work that these guys did, though...it was impressive. I just think Haley is going to be much more like what we saw in the Desert than what we saw in KC.

Chidi29
07-24-2012, 12:09 AM
I really don't want to distract form the hard work that these guys did, though...it was impressive. I just think Haley is going to be much more like what we saw in the Desert than what we saw in KC.

Sure, Arizona would have been a better indicator. But I can only work with what I have and it's not as if nothing Haley did in three years at Kansas City won't carry over.

suitanim
07-24-2012, 10:12 AM
I've found some 2008 Cardinals stuff, game logs and such...not as complete, but still a point of reference. Just a couple quick things I've noticed.

1) They had a FB, and he played, but only situationally.
2) It looks like he was utilized more at the beginning of the season. At the beginning of the season, they ran more than they did at the end. Edgerrin James was the feature back. For example, in game one, James ran 26 times, and the team ran a total of 39 times. By the Seattle (last) game, they were down to 14 runs for James, and a total of 19 for the team. Passing went from 30 attempts up to 38.
3) It does indeed look like Haley preferred to run up the middle. For example, in the Atlanta playoff game, they only rushed 24 times, of those, only 2 were around the left end, 3 around the right, and four off-tackle right and one off-tackle left. Everything else was between the tackles. That's a pattern all-season.
4) In that game, the vast majority of the 38 passes were short right and short middle. that's also a pattern you see throughout the season.
5) Haley does not like to throw the ball deep down the middle. It almost never happened in 2008.