Spence Forcing Steelers to Reconsider [Archive]

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Bluecoat96

07-10-2012, 08:10 AM

Rookie's instincts and understanding of the game have the Steelers considering whether Sean Spence can play a position that the gargantuan Levon Kirkland once made famous.

http://pit.scout.com/2/1201233.html

GBMelBlount

07-10-2012, 08:19 AM

Great read MS.

Spence REALLY sounds special.

I know it is early but top to bottom I am loving this draft more and more.

I was nervous when they overlooked NT in the third and picked Spence...now it is looking as though it may have been a great decision.

Bluecoat96

07-10-2012, 08:23 AM

It will be exciting to see what Spence can do once the pads go on in training camp.

GBMelBlount

07-10-2012, 08:32 AM

It will be exciting to see what Spence can do once the pads go on in training camp.

Agreed. But I just don't get why they are harping on him being undersized so much. Granted he may be a little short but his weight seems OK and I am hoping that his athleticism, instincts and smarts will more than make up for it on the field...

At 5-11 3/8, 231 pounds, Spence wouldn’t compete to replace James Farrior because “the buck linebacker has to be a little bit bigger and take on the guards more,” Butler said, adding that Spence will have to play special teams

X-Terminator

07-10-2012, 08:43 AM

Agreed. But I just don't get why they are harping on him being undersized so much. Granted he may be a little short but his weight seems OK and I am hoping that his athleticism, instincts and smarts will more than make up for it on the field...

Yeah, really. London Fletcher has been a rock for years, and he's only 5'9".

suitanim

07-10-2012, 08:53 AM

Pristas

07-10-2012, 09:31 AM

This is great news. If I had one question mark in this draft it was the third round. Rounds one and two were no brainers for the FO, and Ta'amu in the 4th was a bargain. The later rounds might actually churn out some real talent, but it was Spence in the third that felt like we drafted out of need. Looks like he may be the real surprise of the draft... Do we have a scout who lives in Florida?

Steeldude

07-10-2012, 12:48 PM

“the buck linebacker has to be a little bit bigger and take on the guards more,

So then why was it ok for Farrior to play the position? One year he weighed in at 218.

Count Steeler

07-10-2012, 12:55 PM

More important than physical size is mental football acuity.

Lambert was mean, lean and a football machine. There is just no way to measure heart.

Devilsdancefloor

07-10-2012, 02:13 PM

So then why was it ok for Farrior to play the position? One year he weighed in at 218.

He had the football savvy and knew where to be

Iron Steeler

07-10-2012, 02:28 PM

Loving it! Can't wait fir this season!

TMC

07-10-2012, 02:45 PM

Farrior beat the blocks because he knew the defense so well and read his keys so quickly, he was in position to gain leverage on the blocker and could slip them to make plays. When you are smaller, you cannot and should not be asked to take on a lineman.

Spence's one glaring issue is his size. Now, sure, there are a whole group of undersized players that make it in the NFL. It happens. But, it has to be noted that there are more undersized guys that fail than make it. But, hell, there are more adequately sized guys that fail than make it. Really need to see how he operates when the pads come on. That will be the true test. I hope that as he physically matures, he can add a little weight. He is still a young guy, may add another 5-10 pounds. That is a more comfortable weight, but if he can play at 230, he can play. One of the issues he had though, he was closer to 225-228 while at Miami and he just needs to add a little more good weight. It helps with his ability to handle bigger blockers and helps in preventing injury.

The Steelers will likely get him with their nutritionist and look to add some upper body bulk. Lifting weights and playing football is now his job, not what he does when he gets out of class. Coaches kids usually take good steps forward when put in these situations.

There are three guys in this draft class that have some obstacles to overcome IMO. Spence has his size. Rainey has his size to overcome. I feel that Adams has some techniques issues he has to clean up, could stand to cut his weight in an attempt to regain some fluidity in his movement, and could add some upper body strength. I think he has the farthest to go....not much the other two can do about size.

oneforthetoe

07-10-2012, 04:56 PM

There are plenty of "undersized" guys playing LB in 3-4's nowadays...I still chuckle about that, since Lambert played true MLB in a 4-3 at 212. Reports are that Lambert weighed 204 his rookie year. The Steelers were worried back then that he was too small...that sort of worked out okay for them.

Not saying this is that, but..........................

Everything is cyclical. Lambert had Mean Joe, Ernie, Dwight, and LC among others. He rarely got blocked by the center or guard. Even though Kirkland played behind Joel Steed who was pretty good for about 5 years, he still had to take on more o'linemen, Plus the 90's were the hey day of the massive fullback leading the way into the hole.

The game has changed. How many teams even use the battering ram of a full back, except for short yardage or as a sub-package. Baltimore? San Fran? I think Spence may be a sign of what the future middle linebackers are going to look like; quicker ... better in coverage ..... having to use good technique to make up for lack of size when stopping the run .....at least until/if the power game ever comes back.

steelerdude15

07-10-2012, 05:28 PM

I like everything I've seen from him so far. He has a good attitude, is a good football player as well as a smart one, and is now impressing the coaches. I guarantee he'll be a starter at some point this season. I hope he becomes a beast like he was in college.

Iron Steeler

07-10-2012, 06:37 PM

I wish timmons had the know how to call all the plays. I just feel like we are sacrificing athleticism with foote on the field. And I know its early to even say this but if sean Spence is as good as he performed in Miami it be great to see him and timmons in the middle. Again it would fall back on timmons being able to operate the defense.

Merchant

07-11-2012, 05:29 PM

Interesting.. can't wait to see what he can do in Preseason.

Psycho Ward 86

07-11-2012, 06:19 PM

based just on these reports, i think by the middle of the season Spence will at least have a large share of snaps on 3rd down. His coverage skills back at The U are invaluable.

ALLD

07-11-2012, 06:43 PM

LBers might be evolving back into the Jack Ham types who can tackle, but also be huge factors in coverage. Dobra Shunka was probably not the best example to use since he is probably the best OLBer ever and then they broke the mold. With the NFL passing more, the position needs will change whether its run inside or pass.

XxKnightxX

07-15-2012, 03:00 AM

Student of the game? Great potential? Undersized? Sounds like the second coming of Sam Mills. (Bless his soul)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBAf4ESLm6o

steeldevil

07-15-2012, 10:00 AM

Student of the game? Great potential? Undersized? Sounds like the second coming of Sam Mills. (Bless his soul)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBAf4ESLm6o

We can only hope.

TMC

07-15-2012, 05:51 PM

Student of the game? Great potential? Undersized? Sounds like the second coming of Sam Mills. (Bless his soul)

Not exactly the same thing. Mills was short. He still weighed more than Spence even though he as more than 2 1/2" shorter. Spence's issue is his bulk. Spence is actually very close to Larry Foote when he came out of college (height/weight). The difference between those two would be Spence is more athletic. Spence can overcome this lack of bulk if he can diagnose and get into the right position. He slips blockers well. He fires into creases. He has the natural tools. In fact, if he carried another 10 pounds, I really do not see much wrong with his game. When you are looking at 3rd round guys, all of them have a hitch in their giddyup.

GBMelBlount

07-15-2012, 05:56 PM

Not exactly the same thing. Mills was short. He still weighed more than Spence even though he as more than 2 1/2" shorter. Spence's issue is his bulk.

Spence is actually very close to Larry Foote when he came out of college (height/weight). The difference between those two would be Spence is more athletic.

Spence can overcome this lack of bulk if he can diagnose and get into the right position. He slips blockers well. He fires into creases. He has the natural tools. In fact, if he carried another 10 pounds, I really do not see much wrong with his game. When you are looking at 3rd round guys, all of them have a hitch in their giddyup.

From, what I looked up on Mills I got the impression he was the SAME weight as spence. 230.

...and as far as 3rd round guys having a "hitch in their giddyup" (:chuckle:) I do wonder if he was taller if he would have gone a lot sooner....

Even timmons plays in the low 230's I believe.

TMC

07-15-2012, 06:59 PM

From, what I looked up on Mills I got the impression he was the SAME weight as spence. 230.

...and as far as 3rd round guys having a "hitch in their giddyup" (:chuckle:) I do wonder if he was taller if he would have gone a lot sooner....

Even timmons plays in the low 230's I believe.

Mills came out of college in the high 220s, low 230s and that is the number you see attached to most players. Mills bulked up through his career and was in the 235-238 range after a few years. You can look at Sam Mills and see he has packed the muscle on his 5'9" (and that is generous) frame. As was stated in that video, Sam Mills was not small, he was short.

As for Spence, I have no issue with a 5113 ILB. None. Where I think he is small is he weighed in at 231 at the combine. He was 229 at his pro day 9 days later. At the senior bowl, he was 228. At his junior pro day, he was 219. My concern would be if he can maintain the size needed to play inside. Sure, you want to cover those guys up as much as possible, but it does not always happen and lighter guys, guys that cannot keep the meat on their frame, can struggle and be more injury prone. That is my concern. Nothing else.

As for Timmons, he has bulked up since entering the NFL at 234. He was rumored to be over 250 at one point last season and I think that is probably pretty close to accurate, because he looked a step slow and a little sluggish. The season before, he was listed in the low 240s, which is likely where he should play. Timmons weight gain prior to last season looked natural, remember, he came out early and most men grow up to their 25th birthday, so it is not unusual for them to naturally increase in size. Spence could as well, but the concern is, Spence has added @10 pounds from last season and appeared to try and add more for the combine. He may not be able to hold that weight. Timmons is just a naturally bigger guy.

Hey, he is ours now. Have to hope he overcomes. I like a lot about his game, would not have ranked him as my #2 OLB if I didn't. Just do not know how he will handle the massive interior blockers. If he can slip and evade, he can excel.

GBMelBlount

07-15-2012, 07:45 PM

TMC

As for Spence, I have no issue with a 5113 ILB. None. Where I think he is small is he weighed in at 231 at the combine...(then later dropped weight)....

My concern would be if he can maintain the size needed to play inside. Sure, you want to cover those guys up as much as possible, but it does not always happen and lighter guys, guys that cannot keep the meat on their frame, can struggle and be more injury prone. That is my concern. Nothing else.

If he DID put on weight for the combine at least he was still plenty fast running the 40 under 4.6...

I also inferred that he did not hit the wieghts hard in college as he only put up 225 lbs. 12 times. That is a concern but it could also mean that he has not worked at packing on the muscle (& weight) yet like Mills apparently did....

which as you are pointing out may be the key to him successfully transitioning to the Pros AND being less prone to injuries.

Looks like we have a few guys in the draft who need to hit the weight room...

Steeldude

07-15-2012, 08:49 PM

TMC

07-16-2012, 07:28 AM

If he DID put on weight for the combine at least he was still plenty fast running the 40 under 4.6...

I also inferred that he did not hit the wieghts hard in college as he only put up 225 lbs. 12 times. That is a concern but it could also mean that he has not worked at packing on the muscle (& weight) yet like Mills apparently did....

which as you are pointing out may be the key to him successfully transitioning to the Pros AND being less prone to injuries.

Looks like we have a few guys in the draft who need to hit the weight room...

Spence ran at the combine but did not opt to run at his Pro Day, standing on his combine 40. I have not seen him listed under a 4.6 forty. NFL.com lists him at a 4.71.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/sean-spence?id=2532952

That is the number I have him at, but he is one of those guys that plays much faster than he times. When I grade players, I give them a 40 time number and then will up tick them, keep them the same, or downgrade them due to how they run on film. Spence is one of those guys that gets the up tick because he plays faster than that 4.71. Antonio Brown is another. A guy like Luke Kuechly, IMO, does not play as fast on film as he timed in the 40. I would take his 40 with a grain of salt. But, I think Spence's 4.71 forty was effected by him trying to put on some weight for the combine. At his pro day, he had lost 2 pounds. Here are the Pro Day results for Miami:
http://hurricanesports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/030712aad.html

GBMelBlount

07-16-2012, 07:39 AM

TMC
Spence ran at the combine but did not opt to run at his Pro Day, standing on his combine 40. I have not seen him listed under a 4.6 forty. NFL.com lists him at a 4.71.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/sean-spence?id=2532952

Here is what I had referenced but I guess it wasn't his combine 40.....

http://m.nfl.com/combine/profile/2532952/sean-spence/

That is the number I have him at, but he is one of those guys that plays much faster than he times. When I grade players, I give them a 40 time number and then will up tick them, keep them the same, or downgrade them due to how they run on film. Spence is one of those guys that gets the up tick because he plays faster than that 4.71. Antonio Brown is another. A guy like Luke Kuechly, IMO, does not play as fast on film as he timed in the 40. I would take his 40 with a grain of salt. But, I think Spence's 4.71 forty was effected by him trying to put on some weight for the combine. At his pro day, he had lost 2 pounds. Here are the Pro Day results for Miami:
http://hurricanesports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/030712aad.html

Agreed. Brown is a great example of game speed.

I would imagine that is why they do the shuttles and cones and not just sprints at the combine...

and while on the topic of receivers (Brown) I think Sanders has comparable game speed to Brown. In fact his measurables may be a little better (4.4 40 & 6.6 3-cone drill if I am not mistaken)...

I think if Sanders gets back on track this year we could have a very explosive receiving corps.

This could be another reason why Haley wants to emphasize the short passing game...