Ed: Adams to LT, Gilbert Stays at RT

[polamalubeast]

Rookie Mike Adams will go to left tackle and Marcus Gilbert will stay at right tackle, a source close to the situation told me today.
At least that’s the plan going into training camp. That obviously could change if Adams cannot handle the job but the coaching staff believes he can and quickly made that decision right after they drafted him.
It’s why they put the phone call into Willie Colon so quickly to inform him of his move to left guard.
So, as long as things work out, the Steelers offensive line will look like this:
LT Mike Adams, LG Willie Colon, C Maurkice Pouncey, RG David DeCastro, RT Marcus Gilbert.
Possible backups: T Jonathan Scott, G/T Trai Essex, G/C Doug Legursky, G Ramon Foster.


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[st33lersguy]

I guess Kugler plans to work extensively trying to fix Adams problems with speed rushers. I am more comfortable with Gilbert at LT since he has a year of experience and Adams is a rookie who had issues with consistency coming out of college.

[Hindes204]

I guess Kugler plans to work extensively trying to fix Adams problems with speed rushers. I am more comfortable with Gilbert at LT since he has a year of experience and Adams is a rookie who had issues with consistency coming out of college.

I like Gilbert better as a RT since Adams is the suppossed LT of the future. Why not set yourself up for the future now and move Gilbert over to the right and let him grow in that position. I think Adams has the skill to do just fine. The Adams-Colon-Pouncey-DeCastro-Gilbert line is pretty damn good on paper. That should be the line of the future.

[steelerdude15]

Hmmm.... interesting.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I'm surprised they would put Adams at LT right away, but they have the entire preseason to see if it works out. I saw him get beat by college guys because of his sloppy technique.....hopefully Harrison will school him enough at Latrobe so that guys like Dummyville and Von Miller arent such a surprise week 1.

[The Duke]

I'm sure it's far from set in stone

but if Adams does excel at LT in training camp then I'm all for it

[Count Steeler]

Might as well throw down the gauntlet with the kid. Push him to be great. Worked when Pouncey kicked Gilbert's ass last year.

I got a feeling that DeCastro and Pouncey are going to throw down during TC. Kind of trying to mark their territories. There is a lot of testosterone on that line now. Just hope we get it all going in the right direction.

[zulater]

I guess Kugler plans to work extensively trying to fix Adams problems with speed rushers. I am more comfortable with Gilbert at LT since he has a year of experience and Adams is a rookie who had issues with consistency coming out of college.

I'm thinking his problem with speed rushers may be overstated. If the Steelers are confident enough to make this move you can bet they feel comfortable Adams isn't in over his head.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I'm thinking his problem with speed rushers may be overstated. If the Steelers are confident enough to make this move you can bet they feel comfortable Adams isn't in over his head.

maybe it's not the "steelers." Maybe it's Haley having a strong influence on a lot of this. We've been making a lot of unconservative moves for the offense this offseason, and im guessing he must have some influence in this. I kind of like it

[Pristas]

Might as well throw down the gauntlet with the kid. Push him to be great. Worked when Pouncey kicked Gilbert's ass last year.

I got a feeling that DeCastro and Pouncey are going to throw down during TC. Kind of trying to mark their territories. There is a lot of testosterone on that line now. Just hope we get it all going in the right direction.

I'm thinking it will be something like Hood/DeCastro or Heyward/DeCastro ... funny Heyward/DeCastro sounds like an MMA fight.

[BigNastyDefense]

I am fine with this, as long as the team believes that this is the right thing to do.

Remember, everyone thought that it would be best that Pouncey start at guard his rookie season. Instead he ended up the starting center and the Steelers went to the Super Bowl. Sometimes a baptism by fire is best.

If the Steelers feel that Adams is the left tackle of the future, then I don't even see why you'd play Gilbert there at all if he's going to end up relegated to the right side in a season or so anyhow.

I agree with this move. In the NFL, the future isn't in 3-4 years, the future is now.

[60_MINUTES]

I'm surprised they would put Adams at LT right away, but they have the entire preseason to see if it works out. I saw him get beat by college guys because of his sloppy technique.....hopefully Harrison will school him enough at Latrobe so that guys like Dummyville and Von Miller arent such a surprise week 1.


We opened up the season with John Scott at LT last year... Adams could play the worst ball of his life and be better than Scott .... everthing Ive read says Adams would have been a top 15 pick if not for the Dope... top 15 picks are Starters from Day one

[Merchant]

Harrison versus a rookie LT in training camp. Get your popcorn ready..

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

We opened up the season with John Scott at LT last year... Adams could play the worst ball of his life and be better than Scott .... everthing Ive read says Adams would have been a top 15 pick if not for the Dope... top 15 picks are Starters from Day one

Instead of just reading...........You should have looked at him at games, on tape and in the senior bowl week of practice. He looked worse than Scott in a lot of those instances.

This notion that he has trouble with speed rushers is not something that I heard a lot of. If anything, he turns his shoulders perpindicular on speed guys and they then beat him with inside counter moves.

I'm just blown away at the fanbase that thinks Ta'amu is fat, lazy and could not take over a position where he just needs to occupy 2 blockers........yet they want to trust the $100 million health of Ben Roethilisberger to a dope smoking kid that never hit the weight room during his suspension, and is lazy in his technique. I hope it all works out.

[ShutDown24]

This is good for Adams. Not so good for Gilbert. And if I were banking on one of the two being the better pro, it would be Gilbert. So I'm not certain this is the best option for the team. It seems as if they were backed into a corner. Because Gilbert can play both positions, while Adams probably can't play right. It sucks that Gilbert is almost being punished because of Adams' inability, but in the long run the team probably thought this was their best and perhaps only option. I hope it works out.

And I hope they aren't planning on starting Adams from day one because it will be far worse than when Scott started last year. Adams will be a turnstyle. I would love to say this opens the door for a Max Starks return, becase that's almost necessary for this to work. If Adams gets hurt or sucks, I'm guessing we move Gilbert to left (who should have been there all along) then what, Colon back to right tackle? Talk about a headache. I think it's a bold move banking on a guy who, sure, has a lot of upside - but wasn't even that good in college.

[LLT]

Instead of just reading...........You should have looked at him at games, on tape and in the senior bowl week of practice. He looked worse than Scott in a lot of those instances.

This notion that he has trouble with speed rushers is not something that I heard a lot of. If anything, he turns his shoulders perpindicular on speed guys and they then beat him with inside counter moves.

I'm just blown away at the fanbase that thinks Ta'amu is fat, lazy and could not take over a position where he just needs to occupy 2 blockers........yet they want to trust the $100 million health of Ben Roethilisberger to a dope smoking kid that never hit the weight room during his suspension, and is lazy in his technique. I hope it all works out.

Gonz....you know as well as I do that they are going to light a fire under this guy. Look for Tomlin to make a statement EARLY that reminds this kid who is in charge ......and that he better bring his lunch every day and also look for us to cheat our running back to Ben's left. Common solution to helping rookies out.

I agree with you about Adams inconsistency....but his skill set is off the charts as a LT, if his technique is honed.
.....

[Chidi29]

Instead of just reading...........You should have looked at him at games, on tape and in the senior bowl week of practice. He looked worse than Scott in a lot of those instances.

This notion that he has trouble with speed rushers is not something that I heard a lot of. If anything, he turns his shoulders perpindicular on speed guys and they then beat him with inside counter moves.

.

Which is basically Jonathan Scott in a nutshell. He opens the gate too early to avoid getting beat to the outside and then the DE counters with an inside move as soon as he does. Anyone who goes back and watches the Colts game will see that. It got to the point where it looked like the coaches told him that vs Freeney's inside spin move, instead of mirroring, he would turn and put his butt into Freeney and just try to keep him at bay for another second.

I thought Gilbert is the more natural left tackle and Adams at right. Sure, Adams has the protoypical length and size, but like you, don't think he can handle edge rushers. And he's a sloppy kid who needs a lot of work. Can't be sloppy in the NFL. Talent alone can get you far in college but not the pros.

[LLT]

Yes..Adams has some bad tape..but when motivated he is crazy good. Everyone should look at the tape of Adams vs Whitney Mercilus who.... led the nation in sacks and forced fumbles...and is a very good speed rusher.

Adams totally destroyed him. I remember people saying that Gilbert was "unmotivated" and "lazy" this time last year...so in reality, we all need to wait and see if an NFL regiment does for Adams what it did for Gilbert.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Gonz....you know as well as I do that they are going to light a fire under this guy. Look for Tomlin to make a statement EARLY that reminds this kid who is in charge ......and that he better bring his lunch every day and also look for us to cheat our running back to Ben's left. Common solution to helping rookies out.

I agree with you about Adams inconsistency....but his skill set is off the charts as a LT, if his technique is honed.
.....
P i know they are gonna have all preseason to work with him. I know he has huge upside. I just think Marvel Smith was a more polished prospect, but he apprenticed for 2 yrs at Rt first.

The sad thing is They are gonna rush Adams into the spot, because there isn't a vet there, but In Smiths case there was Gandy in place. The casual fan thinks a guy suspended part of the year and didn't hit the weight room is plug and play in the NFL. I have reservations and suspect you might too, aside from your optimism.

[Chidi29]

P i know they are gonna have all preseason to work with him. I know he has huge upside. I just think Marvel Smith was a more polished prospect, but he apprenticed for 2 yrs at Rt first.

The sad thing is They are gonna rush Adams into the spot, because there isn't a vet there, but In Smiths case there was Gandy in place. The casual fan thinks a guy suspended part of the year and didn't hit the weight room is plug and play in the NFL. I have reservations and suspect you might too, aside from your optimism.

Which is why I don't see why they can't start Adams at RT this year and Gilbert at left. Take a year, coach up Adams a bit at a position where there is a bit less pressure against speed rushers. If he's ready to make the switch, then you have all of next offseason to prepare.

[zulater]

It's a long time until the season opens. If Adams isn't close to ready by the start of the season they'll come up with another plan. Hell maybe they've got a line on Starks and his rehab is far enough along that they could plug him in for the time that it takes to get Adams up to speed?

I don't think this is some sort of half thought out thing where they're just winging it and hoping for the best from Adams. As has been said Ben's too valuable a commodity to gamble his blind side protection in such a way.

[suitanim]

Just have to shake my head at the Adams hate...

[GBMelBlount]

I'm surprised they would put Adams at LT right away, but they have the entire preseason to see if it works out. I saw him get beat by college guys because of his sloppy technique.....hopefully Harrison will school him enough at Latrobe so that guys like Dummyville and Von Miller arent such a surprise week 1.

As a coach I would think you would understand the likely psychology here El-Gonzo.

Adams made some very big promises in order to become a Steeler.

So why in the world would you not expect them to put the most pressure possible on him from day 1 to make good on his promises.

They want to see what this kid is really made of...

I like this a lot.

[LLT]

P i know they are gonna have all preseason to work with him. I know he has huge upside. I just think Marvel Smith was a more polished prospect, but he apprenticed for 2 yrs at Rt first.

The sad thing is They are gonna rush Adams into the spot, because there isn't a vet there, but In Smiths case there was Gandy in place. The casual fan thinks a guy suspended part of the year and didn't hit the weight room is plug and play in the NFL. I have reservations and suspect you might too, aside from your optimism.

Oh yea...I have reservations.

Most of my concerns are based on his attitude...whether the coaching staff can instill a sense of urgency into the young man.

But.....

It wasnt that long ago that we all thought Adams wouldn't be available to us at the #24 slot. Before the "pot" situation...Adams was a considered a top 20 prosspect. Regardless of the Steelers past history, Tomlin has shown an inclination to start high draft picks pretty early. He seems to expect these players to contribute sooner than later.

This is actually in line with what the rest of the league does. In 2010 and 2011 there where 12 OT's drafted in the first round. Other than Gabe Carimi (Bears...knee injury) and Derrek Sherrod (Packers..broken leg) it should be noted that the remaining ten OT's started at least 9 games as rookies...with the average being 13 games started.

...and I have to wonder if the fact that EVERY offensive lineman will be learning a new offense under Haley, might have something to do with the thinking that they might as well plug Adams in.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Oh yea...I have reservations.

Most of my concerns are based on his attitude...whether the coaching staff can instill a sense of urgency into the young man.

But.....

It wasnt that long ago that we all thought Adams wouldn't be available to us at the #24 slot. Before the "pot" situation...Adams was a considered a top 20 prosspect. Regardless of the Steelers past history, Tomlin has shown an inclination to start high draft picks pretty early. He seems to expect these players to contribute sooner than later.

This is actually in line with what the rest of the league does. In 2010 and 2011 there where 12 OT's drafted in the first round. Other than Gabe Carimi (Bears...knee injury) and Derrek Sherrod (Packers..broken leg) it should be noted that the remaining ten OT's started at least 9 games as rookies...with the average being 13 games started.

...and I have to wonder if the fact that EVERY offensive lineman will be learning a new offense under Haley, might have something to do with the thinking that they might as well plug Adams in.

LLT, go back to January...well before the positive test and many had Adams as a boom or bust pick. I'm not talking the bloggers, but guys like Brandt, Mayock, Kiper. Questions about his inconsistency, suspension and work ethic. As much as the hype machine built Adams back up, he was still gonna be passed on by many because of that...and his 19 reps at the Combine didnt help things.

No question about his potential, but rather his lazy technique and willingness to put in the time to improve that consistently.

Sure, Tyron Smith, Nate Solder, Gabe Carimi, James Carpenter, Derrick Sherrod all played as rookies at RIGHT TACKLE. Only Castonzo in Indy played at LT to protect Curtis Painter. I think Castonzo, Carimi were better polished than Adams is. We will see how this works out, but maybe the Steelers just let the line talent disintigrate to crap so their best option is to place a rookie boom or bust pick on day 1.

As for the fact there is a new offense...that doesnt mean much to O linemen. Pass protection technique, hand placement, footwork and pad level are the same, no matter what the offensive play terminology is.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Which is why I don't see why they can't start Adams at RT this year and Gilbert at left. Take a year, coach up Adams a bit at a position where there is a bit less pressure against speed rushers. If he's ready to make the switch, then you have all of next offseason to prepare.
This is what I would think as well. I'm all for him starting at RT, making mistakes, learning and then having an entire offseason to come back and hold down one of the most important positions in the NFL. Kugler and others must see something that makes this move right though.


Just have to shake my head at the Adams hate... Not sure if this is directed at me or not, but I have no hate for Adams. I just like to see rookie OT's get acclimated to the NFL at the RT spot. If Adams was as consistent a technician as guys like Khalil, Anthony Costanzo, Gabe Carimi, Brian Bulaga, Joe Thomas, Jake Long......I'd feel better about him at LT. But he isnt yet.


As a coach I would think you would understand the likely psychology here El-Gonzo.

Adams made some very big promises in order to become a Steeler.

So why in the world would you not expect them to put the most pressure possible on him from day 1 to make good on his promises.

They want to see what this kid is really made of...

I like this a lot.
GBM, I have taken sport psych courses from consultants to national teams. One of the results of excessive pressure on young athletes is fundamental skill breakdown. Its why you see rookie linemen forget the snap count, rookie WR's run the wrong route or spike the ball before the play is over, or rookie LB's hesistate while they diagnose the play.

I am sure Adams will make mistakes, its part of the process. I would just rather he made mistakes in front of Ben where he can see, instead of on Ben's blind side.

Remember the Seahawks game last year when Rahim Brock beat Gilbert at RT, then Gilbert trips Brock and he ends up taking Ben out at the knees??? Simple rookie mistake that I expect to happen, but if it happens on the LT Adams....all the guys that think this is a great idea will be sharpening the pitchforks.

[suitanim]

I guess the Steelers just don't know what they are doing...again.

(Sigh)

[LLT]

LLT, go back to January...well before the positive test and many had Adams as a boom or bust pick. I'm not talking the bloggers, but guys like Brandt, Mayock, Kiper. Questions about his inconsistency, suspension and work ethic. As much as the hype machine built Adams back up, he was still gonna be passed on by many because of that...and his 19 reps at the Combine didnt help things.

No question about his potential, but rather his lazy technique and willingness to put in the time to improve that consistently.

Sure, Tyron Smith, Nate Solder, Gabe Carimi, James Carpenter, Derrick Sherrod all played as rookies at RIGHT TACKLE. Only Castonzo in Indy played at LT to protect Curtis Painter. I think Castonzo, Carimi were better polished than Adams is. We will see how this works out, but maybe the Steelers just let the line talent disintigrate to crap so their best option is to place a rookie boom or bust pick on day 1.

As for the fact there is a new offense...that doesnt mean much to O linemen. Pass protection technique, hand placement, footwork and pad level are the same, no matter what the offensive play terminology is.

Actually out of those I mentioned...Trent Williams...Russell Okung...Roger Saffold...and Castanzo all started on the Left side.

I think that you are on to something when you say that the line has become such a mess that this the move becomes one of almost a "necessity".....but I would say that I think that Adams is a better prospect than Carimi. He has a better kick slide and is infinitely more athletic .

Again...I have reservations...and will not be surprised if at the beginning of the season we see someone at LT other then Adams....but he will probably be entrenched at the position by the seasons end.

As far as the playbook...granted...the learning curve isnt as great for an offensive linemen...but its still a factor. Everyone is starting at zero in regards to the verbage and responsibilities.

[LLT]

I guess the Steelers just don't know what they are doing...again.

(Sigh)

Suit...how about we stop the veiled pokes at others.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Actually out of those I mentioned...Trent Williams...Russell Okung...Roger Saffold...and Castanzo all started on the Left side.

I think that you are on to something when you say that the line has become such a mess that this the move becomes one of almost a "necessity".....but I would say that I think that Adams is a better prospect than Carimi. He has a better kick slide and is infinitely more athletic .

Again...I have reservations...and will not be surprised if at the beginning of the season we see someone at LT other then Adams....but he will probably be entrenched at the position by the seasons end.

As far as the playbook...granted...the learning curve isnt as great for an offensive linemen...but its still a factor. Everyone is starting at zero in regards to the verbage and responsibilities.
Oh, I just thought you were talking last year. The guys you mention play(ed) for cellar dweller teams like Seahawks, Redskins, Colts, Rams......that is pretty much expected. Pat Kirwin wrote an article a few years ago of how only 2% of rookies start and its mostly the lousy non playoff teams that NEED to start rookies in positions.

I think he even mentioned teams like the Steelers that normally dont NEED to start rookies, because they draft well and develop their talent. Maybe we have gotten to this point. Maybe the whole idea of drafting weapons to protect Ben wasnt as great an idea as thought?

Anyways, I trust the Steelers front office decisions.........they "retired" Bruce Arians didnt they??

[suitanim]

All roads lead back to Arians. You guys just can't let it go.

It's getting kind of weird and creepy.

Then again, we have a weirdo on here who can't stop talking about Kordell Stewart and blaming him for things, and he hasn't taken a snap as a Steeler in a decade, so maybe you guys will ALWAYS blame Arians for something or other...who knows?

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

All roads lead back to Arians. You guys just can't let it go.

It's getting kind of weird and creepy.

Then again, we have a weirdo on here who can't stop talking about Kordell Stewart and blaming him for things, and he hasn't taken a snap as a Steeler in a decade, so maybe you guys will ALWAYS blame Arians for something or other...who knows?

Just saying that I trust the Steelers front office to make the right decision. Its got nothing to do with Arians that they are planning to start camp with Adams at LT. Occams razor would say that was a good attempt at deflection.

I find the decision to start a rookie at LT a lot out of character for the Steelers. I cant remember when they did that last??

[GBMelBlount]

GBM, I have taken sport psych courses from consultants to national teams. One of the results of excessive pressure on young athletes is fundamental skill breakdown. Its why you see rookie linemen forget the snap count, rookie WR's run the wrong route or spike the ball before the play is over, or rookie LB's hesistate while they diagnose the play.

I am sure Adams will make mistakes, its part of the process. I would just rather he made mistakes in front of Ben where he can see, instead of on Ben's blind side.



Soooo.....letting him know you have very high expectations for him to start at LT and starting him there during training camp is "excessive pressure?"

I would think you would be the first one to agree that with someone that has great natural potential like Adams it only makes sense to first test him at the position you ideally want him at and see if he can handle it or at least shows the potential to quickly transition....

but then again, if he doesn't cut it at left tackle in training camp we may not want to risk the emotional scars from such excessive pressure. :grin:

[Chidi29]

As a coach I would think you would understand the likely psychology here El-Gonzo.

Adams made some very big promises in order to become a Steeler.

So why in the world would you not expect them to put the most pressure possible on him from day 1 to make good on his promises.

They want to see what this kid is really made of...

I like this a lot.

There's a difference between pushing a player and putting him in a situation he might not be able to succeed at. At every level, one of the most important parts of being a coach is putting your players in position to succeed. If Adams can't do it, or at least can't do it right away, all we're doing is wasting his, the coaches, and the team's time.

[suitanim]

Back to this whole RT, LT thing, I don't understand why people are having such a difficult struggle with this. Gilbert, for the vast majority of his college career, played at RT (all of 2009, and he swapped LT and RT in 2010). he's a RT.

Adams is a LT.

It's that simple. And that's where the Steelers will play them until their performance or lack thereof dictates differently.

[Chidi29]

Back to this whole RT, LT thing, I don't understand why people are having such a difficult struggle with this. Gilbert, for the vast majority of his college career, played at RT (all of 2009, and he swapped LT and RT in 2010). he's a RT.

Adams is a LT.

It's that simple. And that's where the Steelers will play them until their performance or lack thereof dictates differently.

There's a reason why the team was going to put Gilbert on the left side until Adams was drated. He has experience at left tackle and certainly has the skillset to do it. Adams' ability to do so is questionable at best.

[suitanim]

There's a reason why the team was going to put Gilbert on the left side until Adams was drated. He has experience at left tackle and certainly has the skillset to do it. Adams' ability to do so is questionable at best.

Gilbert played far more RT than he did LT in college. He actually played as much Guard as he did LT. He played RT for us last year.

Adams was always a LT. He's a LT. He was obviously drafted as a LT. The primary reason we drafted him was because Max Starks, our LT, is gone.

This is being over-thought. Just as was stated already by the coaching staff, they are going to leave these guys where they are most comfortable and let them play themselves either into or out of those positions. Adams STRENGTH is pass blocking. It makes sense to play to his strength and put him on the left side. If he can't cut it, he can't cut it...does anyone think the Steelers will hesitate to move him if he can't?

I'm having trouble understanding why people are all of a sudden deciding that Adams lacks the ability to play...........his natural position?

[zulater]

You could make the case that by moving Gilbert to left tackle you'd be putting two positions of importance in flux? Keep Gilbert at right tackle and you're looking at one of the top ten right tackles in the league no doubt about it. There's no guarantee that Gilbert was going to make the transition without a major drop off in play.

So I guess I can see this from Suit and the Steelers side.

[LLT]

Gonz...

Tex asked the the Arians references please stop because it it obviously more of a jab at those who disagree then it is a legitimate debate at this point.


Suit....I've already asked you once today to please use restraint.


Okay...now we all KNOW where we stand and ONE MORE snipe is going to be grounds for a vacation. There is enough meat in this welcomed debate (on both sides) to keep everyone from having to get personal.

[LLT]

Gilbert played far more RT than he did LT in college. He actually played as much Guard as he did LT. He played RT for us last year.

Adams was always a LT. He's a LT. He was obviously drafted as a LT. The primary reason we drafted him was because Max Starks, our LT, is gone.

This is being over-thought. Just as was stated already by the coaching staff, they are going to leave these guys where they are most comfortable and let them play themselves either into or out of those positions. Adams STRENGTH is pass blocking. It makes sense to play to his strength and put him on the left side. If he can't cut it, he can't cut it...does anyone think the Steelers will hesitate to move him if he can't?

I'm having trouble understanding why people are all of a sudden deciding that Adams lacks the ability to play...........his natural position?

But to keep the debate fair....Gilbert played RT on the blind side of a left handed QB for most of that time. It was one of the reasons that I thought he was undervalued in the draft.

[Chidi29]

Gilbert played far more RT than he did LT in college. He actually played as much Guard as he did LT. He played RT for us last year.

Adams was always a LT. He's a LT. He was obviously drafted as a LT. The primary reason we drafted him was because Max Starks, our LT, is gone.

This is being over-thought. Just as was stated already by the coaching staff, they are going to leave these guys where they are most comfortable and let them play themselves either into or out of those positions. Adams STRENGTH is pass blocking. It makes sense to play to his strength and put him on the left side. If he can't cut it, he can't cut it...does anyone think the Steelers will hesitate to move him if he can't?

I'm having trouble understanding why people are all of a sudden deciding that Adams lacks the ability to play...........his natural position?

I said he has some experience at left tackle. Not extensive and not on Sunday though if I had to guess, he got some reps in practice last year in case of emergency. And again, before the draft, the team didn't have a problem moving Gilbert to LT.

The primary reason we drafted him was because he got back into our good graces after being off our draft board. And he fell to us.

I don't think Adams will cut it right now. So why waste time? At the very least, coach him up on the right side for a year and take it from there. I know you don't think he's a project, but I think he is who I pegged to be a right tackle in the NFL. So we're not changing our minds.

[Chidi29]

You could make the case that by moving Gilbert to left tackle you'd be putting two positions of importance in flux? Keep Gilbert at right tackle and you're looking at one of the top ten right tackles in the league no doubt about it. There's no guarantee that Gilbert was going to make the transition without a major drop off in play.

So I guess I can see this from Suit and the Steelers side.

There's no guarantees of anything. Who says Adams will succeed at left tackle?

But if you're going to make a switch, doing it now in May is the time to do it.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Soooo.....letting him know you have very high expectations for him to start at LT and starting him there during training camp is "excessive pressure?"

I would think you would be the first one to agree that with someone that has great natural potential like Adams it only makes sense to first test him at the position you ideally want him at and see if he can handle it or at least shows the potential to quickly transition....

but then again, if he doesn't cut it at left tackle in training camp we may not want to risk the emotional scars from such excessive pressure. :grin:

GBM, everybody is different and maybe Adams is the type of guy that thrives on the pressure, or maybe he copes with pressure by selling his jersey for tattoo's and rolling a fatty.....we dont know. The Coaching staff and sport psyc's should know.

I'd be more inclined to teach the progression of changes to what an NFL LT is going to see, rather than trial by fire. It's kind of the reason there are things like "swimming lessons" instead of us all dropping our kids in deep water. (I know, I am getting soft in my old age).

As for having "great natural potential", many a great talent has lacked the effort or progression of coaching to achieve that potential. Reminds me of 2 great quotes from some guys that know about football (will paraphrase).....

"Effort without ability is hard to watch....but ability without effort is a damn shame to see" -Bill Parcells

"Fear is what happens when you don't know what you are doing"- Chuck Noll

I hope that Adams quickly learns what he is supposed to be doing and applies great effort to realize his potential. Otherwise we just have Max Starks 2.0 of a RT.

[GBMelBlount]

There's a difference between pushing a player and putting him in a situation he might not be able to succeed at.

Dear lord chidi, pushing an athlete to attempt something they might not succeed at is practically THE definition of pushing a player.

You may want to rethink what you are saying here...lol

[GBMelBlount]

GBM, everybody is different and maybe Adams is the type of guy that thrives on the pressure, or maybe he copes with pressure by selling his jersey for tattoo's and rolling a fatty.....we dont know. The Coaching staff and sport psyc's should know.

I'd be more inclined to teach the progression of changes to what an NFL LT is going to see, rather than trial by fire. It's kind of the reason there are things like "swimming lessons" instead of us all dropping our kids in deep water. (I know, I am getting soft in my old age).

As for having "great natural potential", many a great talent has lacked the effort or progression of coaching to achieve that potential. Reminds me of 2 great quotes from some guys that know about football (will paraphrase).....

"Effort without ability is hard to watch....but ability without effort is a damn shame to see" -Bill Parcells

"Fear is what happens when you don't know what you are doing"- Chuck Noll

I hope that Adams quickly learns what he is supposed to be doing and applies great effort to realize his potential. Otherwise we just have Max Starks 2.0 of a RT.

I think it is very sweet that you do not want to hurt his feelings by challenging him too early but complacency without challenge is not always a winning formula with regard to getting people that have a tendency to be lazy to reach their full potential.

I would be all over his ass from day one but again, I have not taken sports psychology or sensitivity training. :chuckle:

...and while I do understand your point it is just training so why not test him for the ideal situation right off...

and by the I am enjoying our exchange, not picking a fight.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

There's a difference between pushing a player and putting him in a situation he might not be able to succeed at. At every level, one of the most important parts of being a coach is putting your players in position to succeed. If Adams can't do it, or at least can't do it right away, all we're doing is wasting his, the coaches, and the team's time.

This I agree with. Helping further develop his skillset and helping Adams evolve into a great pro LT. I think guys like Ogden, Marvel Smith, Oher all had more polished games than Adams, but interned at RT


Back to this whole RT, LT thing, I don't understand why people are having such a difficult struggle with this. Gilbert, for the vast majority of his college career, played at RT (all of 2009, and he swapped LT and RT in 2010). he's a RT.

Adams is a LT.

It's that simple. And that's where the Steelers will play them until their performance or lack thereof dictates differently.

I agree with this, but yeah Gilbert played on a left hand QB's blind side. Honestly the physical skill of kick sliding with your left or right leg isnt that different, its just if you are athletic enough to play the blindside of LT or not. I think both are athletic enough and yes....they will play until their performance dictates differently.


There's a reason why the team was going to put Gilbert on the left side until Adams was drated. He has experience at left tackle and certainly has the skillset to do it. Adams' ability to do so is questionable at best.

I dont think that Adams ability to play LT is questionable in the long term. I think he can be great, but I think the first time he gets schooled by some 5 year veteran pass rusher, with moves better than he saw in college, Ben will have Riddell tattooed in his spine.

[Chidi29]

Dear lord chidi, pushing an athlete to attempt something they might not succeed at is practically THE definition of pushing a player.

You may want to rethink what you are saying here...lol

Yes, there is a line but if you don't think a player can succeed at a spot, don't keep him there just because that is what he is used to.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I think it is very sweet that you do not want to hurt his feelings by challenging him too early but complacency without challenge is not always a winning formula with regard to getting people that have a tendency to be lazy to reach their full potential.

I would be all over his ass from day one but again, I have not taken sports psychology or sensitivity training. :chuckle:

...and while I do understand your point it is just training so why not test him for the ideal situation right off...

and by the I am enjoying our exchange, not picking a fight.
I'm enjoying the exchange too, we go back a ways T and its always a good discussion.

Thing is that in school we never test anybody without learning first. Electricians dont wire your house without getting the proper written, practical education and then apprenticeship. Doctors dont do procedures unless they understand the anatomy, physiology, disease state they are attempting to correct and then do some kind of hands on residency or cadaver training.

I know this is just the game of football, but when the job is to protect a $100million asset, I would want somebody with more practical experience doing it. Kind of like being the Dr.'s first patient or the 1000th patient to get the procedure done.

[GBMelBlount]

I'm enjoying the exchange too, we go back a ways T and its always a good discussion.

Thing is that in school we never test anybody without learning first. Electricians dont wire your house without getting the proper written, practical education and then apprenticeship. Doctors dont do procedures unless they understand the anatomy, physiology, disease state they are attempting to correct and then do some kind of hands on residency or cadaver training.

I know this is just the game of football, but when the job is to protect a $100million asset, I would want somebody with more practical experience doing it. Kind of like being the Dr.'s first patient or the 1000th patient to get the procedure done.

Great points.

Fortunately, since it is only training camp, by starting Adams at tackle this will help them to best gauge how much practical experience he will likely need in order to develop to the point where he can handle LT in real games.

[suitanim]

I'm enjoying the exchange too, we go back a ways T and its always a good discussion.

Thing is that in school we never test anybody without learning first. Electricians dont wire your house without getting the proper written, practical education and then apprenticeship. Doctors dont do procedures unless they understand the anatomy, physiology, disease state they are attempting to correct and then do some kind of hands on residency or cadaver training.

I know this is just the game of football, but when the job is to protect a $100million asset, I would want somebody with more practical experience doing it. Kind of like being the Dr.'s first patient or the 1000th patient to get the procedure done.


This is a weak argument. I've heard it before. People act like NFL rookies have never played the game before. They've in almost all cases played it their whole lives.

This is a particularly interesting considering the source. If pre-NFL football is so very, very basic and rudimentary to the point that players are to be compared to doctors without training, than that naturally would impugn your own coaching level to the point of meaninglessness. How can you on one hand claim to have such intimate and all-encompassing knowledge of the game, yet at the same time be mired in such a rudimentary and elementary level of it at the same time? It's self-contradicting.

Adams needs fine tuning. The skill-set is all there. He needs the highest level training that can only come from both top-level coaching along with actually training against top-level competition. People act like he's going into the first preseason game this year playing against JUCO talent. By then he'll have had to deal with both Brett Keisel and Cam Heyward on the DL, and James Harrison at OLB. That's, um.......pretty solid competition to learn from.

[GBMelBlount]

Yes, there is a line but if you don't think a player can succeed at a spot, don't keep him there just because that is what he is used to.

I think we can both agree on that. It will be nice to see in training camp just how much (or little) work Adams needs in order to hopefully be the answer at LT for the Steelers.

I am sure Ben is happy at the possibility too...

[oneforthetoe]

I still think there is a chance that Max could be back for insurance.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

This is a weak argument. I've heard it before. People act like NFL rookies have never played the game before. They've in almost all cases played it their whole lives.

This is a particularly interesting considering the source. If pre-NFL football is so very, very basic and rudimentary to the point that players are to be compared to doctors without training, than that naturally would impugn your own coaching level to the point of meaninglessness. How can you on one hand claim to have such intimate and all-encompassing knowledge of the game, yet at the same time be mired in such a rudimentary and elementary level of it at the same time? It's self-contradicting.

Adams needs fine tuning. The skill-set is all there. He needs the highest level training that can only come from both top-level coaching along with actually training against top-level competition. People act like he's going into the first preseason game this year playing against JUCO talent. By then he'll have had to deal with both Brett Keisel and Cam Heyward on the DL, and James Harrison at OLB. That's, um.......pretty solid competition to learn from.

Again, putting words in my mouth about all encompassing knowledge of the game. Nothing new here.

If there is seemingly no real difference between the NCAA and NFL game, can you explain why only 30-35 rookies will start on opening day in the NFL (according to annual stats from Pat Kirwan)?? Can you explain why many rookies say that the speed of the game is so much different and that is what they have to adjust to?

You can tout the Big 10 competition as much as you want, but there is no real explanation as to why guys like Jake Long and Joe Thomas seem to transition quickly, while other blue chip guys like Bryan Bulaga struggled at RT in his first season. Maybe its the speed, maybe its the larger amount of defensive fronts they see, maybe its the college system they were in?

Yes, there is a big difference and if you ignore that, then you are just kidding yourself. Again, I am not saying that I want Adams to fail or that he cant handle the spot. I'm just incredibly surprised that the Steelers are going to start things off like this.

Seeing a good pass rusher like Whitney Mercilus once a year is one thing, but seeing a different guy like that every week for 16 games is probably the biggest difference between the NFL and college.

[zulater]

I understand peoples concerns. But I think I understand the Steelers thinking on this. And in the end I'll always defer to them, until such time as they're proven wrong. Their track record while not infallible is certainly impressive enough to give them the initial benefit of the doubt.

So here's what I think they're thinking.

They really like Adams skill set. He's a prototypical NFL left tackle. And after having talked with him believe him to be committed to doing the things necessary to reach the level of play needed to succeed in the NFL quickly. So while there may be an adjustment period. He may not be ready to start to begin the season. But at some point in his rookie year they believe he'll be ready to take his place in the starting line up at left tackle. And once there, other than injuries they feel he'll be there for quite some time to come.

So now we come to Marcus Gilbert. Believing quite strongly that we drafted our left tackle for the majority of the next ten years in Mike Adams do we really put Gilbert over at left tackle for 4-8 games while Adams learns the league and then move him back to right tackle afterwards? Gilbert really came on strong last year. Towards the end of the season he was really looking the part of an emerging force at the right tackle position. So do we jerk him back and forth while Adams learns the game, potentially retarding his development into an elite right tackle in the process? The answer obviously is no.

So maybe they sign Starks as an insurance policy if he's healthy enough at the start of the season? Maybe they grin and bear it with Peterson until Adams is ready. While Peterson sucks, the Steelers have won some games with him playing extensively. And quite truthfully his play did improve somewhat as the season went on last year.

So yeah I'm a bit worried that there might be some early issues at left tackle next season. But I trust the Steelers to know what they're doing, and if things fall in place right the Steelers will have the best offensive line in the league for the foreseeable future starting somewhere in the middle of next season.

[tube517]

I still think there is a chance that Max could be back for insurance.

That's my thinking /hoping.

[Count Steeler]

I still think there is a chance that Max could be back for insurance.

What, you don't trust J. Scott for his veteran presence? Good, nor do I.

[ALLD]

All roads lead back to Arians. You guys just can't let it go.

It's getting kind of weird and creepy.

Then again, we have a weirdo on here who can't stop talking about Kordell Stewart and blaming him for things, and he hasn't taken a snap as a Steeler in a decade, so maybe you guys will ALWAYS blame Arians for something or other...who knows?


It is safe to say without a doubt, Walt Kiesling deserves no blame for the OL mess we have experienced over the last few seasons.

[Chidi29]

Great points.

Fortunately, since it is only training camp, by starting Adams at tackle this will help them to best gauge how much practical experience he will likely need in order to develop to the point where he can handle LT in real games.

But if that practice experience is at the expense of the good of the team, then we shouldn't do it.

Adams can be pushed at RT, too. It's not like he's going to be handed anything on a silver platter; he's still a rookie who hasn't done a thing in the NFL.

[Bluecoat96]

At least Adams will be tested by the best. (Harrison) You know James will be all over his a$$. I'd love to see that training camp battle.

[stillers4me]

I still think there is a chance that Max could be back for insurance.

Steelers Depot‏@SteelersdepotSteelers Depot: Max Starks Says He Has Yet To Hear From Steelers & Will Unlikely Be Ready By Camp http://bit.ly/Lm2lRo (http://t.co/TrXIpSWY) #steelers (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#!/search/%23steelers) #nfl (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#!/search/%23nfl)

[Bluecoat96]

Steelers Depot‏@SteelersdepotSteelers Depot: Max Starks Says He Has Yet To Hear From Steelers & Will Unlikely Be Ready By Camp http://bit.ly/Lm2lRo (http://t.co/TrXIpSWY) #steelers (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#%21/search/%23steelers) #nfl (http://www.steelersuniverse.com/#%21/search/%23nfl)

I hope for his sake, he's not letting himself turn in to a gigantic blob of fat, like last year.

[Chidi29]

I hope for his sake, he's not letting himself turn in to a gigantic blob of fat, like last year.

It's probably sometihng that is hard to keep off. He's not able to do any running to keep his weight in check. I'm not a trainer and I'm sure there are some workouts he can do, but still, at that weight, you can lose track quickly.

Plus, you have to get back into actual football shape which takes time.

[zulater]

It's probably sometihng that is hard to keep off. He's not able to do any running to keep his weight in check. I'm not a trainer and I'm sure there are some workouts he can do, but still, at that weight, you can lose track quickly.

Plus, you have to get back into actual football shape which takes time.

I'm guessing he'll be ready to play at an acceptable level by opening day. Thus you got your safety net if Adams isn't ready.

[Craic]

It's probably sometihng that is hard to keep off. He's not able to do any running to keep his weight in check. I'm not a trainer and I'm sure there are some workouts he can do, but still, at that weight, you can lose track quickly.

Plus, you have to get back into actual football shape which takes time.

Very true, but at least he has "muscle memory" going for him. It'd be a lot easier for him to get into football shape then the average person his age. I forget what the problem was, ACL? I wonder if he's doing any work in a pool.

[Chidi29]

Very true, but at least he has "muscle memory" going for him. It'd be a lot easier for him to get into football shape then the average person his age. I forget what the problem was, ACL? I wonder if he's doing any work in a pool.

Yes, it was a torn ACL.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Sorry, but guys that made 7 million in one year can afford to hire a nutritional consultant to prevent from putting on too much weight during rehab. If Starks is putting on weight it's his own damn fault. More likely it's the strength recovery from surgery.

I could care less if he comes back. Don't need a recovering RT on the team for excessive cap cost.

[GBMelBlount]

LLT

Actually out of those I mentioned...Trent Williams...Russell Okung...Roger Saffold...and Castanzo all started on the Left side.


Oh, I just thought you were talking last year. The guys you mention play(ed) for cellar dweller teams like Seahawks, Redskins, Colts, Rams......that is pretty much expected. Pat Kirwin wrote an article a few years ago of how only 2% of rookies start and its mostly the lousy non playoff teams that NEED to start rookies in positions.

I think he even mentioned teams like the Steelers that normally dont NEED to start rookies, because they draft well and develop their talent. Maybe we have gotten to this point. Maybe the whole idea of drafting weapons to protect Ben wasnt as great an idea as thought?

Anyways, I trust the Steelers front office decisions.........they "retired" Bruce Arians didnt they??

That is a good point about those first year starters all playing for very mediocre teams....

However our line is pretty poor and as LLT pointed out the majority of first round lineman HAVE started the majority of the games their rookie season.

So I would imagine because of the high rate of first round linemen starting right away or early on in their rookie year I think what it all boils down to is the steelers just want to see if there is POSSIBILITY that Adams can start the season at LT even if it is not probable.

That's all.

[ShutDown24]

I'm going to make some non-profound points here which have probably already been voiced. But the way I see it, I think Adams at left tackle is fine. I just wasn't expecting it so soon. I feel like gambling on a product like Adams is very hopeful and maybe not the best thing to do. I would much rather have had Gilbert been given the shot at left, and tried to develop Adams at right for a season or two. Then, if it was clear that Adams was only a left tackle, move him there with the knowledge we already have that Gilbert is a very good right tackle. It seems very out of character for the team to be placing so much pressure and trust on a rookie who is talented, but has a lot of questions to answer yet.

These will be my final thoughts on the matter until I see the two on field at camp.

[sgtrobo]

I think that people are looking at the LT/RT delineation in much the same way they look at the "nickel CB = 3rd best CB"

they are 2 separate positions. In college, your "best" OT plays LT. In the pros, that's not necessarily the case. Adams has length, agility, and lateral movement that far surpasses Marcus Gilbert. Really, it's not even close. In fact, I'd say that I can't remember the last time a true, "franchise LT"-capable guy fell to us, even in the first let alone the 2nd. Adams, a rookie, is comfortable at LT. I say, let him battle it out with the vets for LT. Of course, the vets darn sure should lose out to him, because they're notwhere near as talented. I'd also like to see Gilbert stay at RT, because he showed that he was good there, but in his play, he does not look like he has the quicks to play LT.

I'd love for Adams to have to "earn" the job, but the competition is Jonathan Scott and Trai Essex, unless Max is somehow healthy and ready to play week 1 (doubtful)

[Steeltreal]

I think that people are looking at the LT/RT delineation in much the same way they look at the "nickel CB = 3rd best CB"

they are 2 separate positions. In college, your "best" OT plays LT. In the pros, that's not necessarily the case. Adams has length, agility, and lateral movement that far surpasses Marcus Gilbert. Really, it's not even close. In fact, I'd say that I can't remember the last time a true, "franchise LT"-capable guy fell to us, even in the first let alone the 2nd. Adams, a rookie, is comfortable at LT. I say, let him battle it out with the vets for LT. Of course, the vets darn sure should lose out to him, because they're notwhere near as talented. I'd also like to see Gilbert stay at RT, because he showed that he was good there, but in his play, he does not look like he has the quicks to play LT.

I'd love for Adams to have to "earn" the job, but the competition is Jonathan Scott and Trai Essex, unless Max is somehow healthy and ready to play week 1 (doubtful)

+1