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Count Steeler
05-09-2012, 05:25 PM
Pittsburgh quarterback Ben Roethlisberger stopped far short of accusing the 49ers of wrongdoing, but intimated Wednesday he suspected his bum ankle was being targeted during a game last season at Candlestick Park.

The topic turned to the New Orleans Saints' bounty scandal on The Dan Patrick Show when Roethlisberger made passing reference to the 49ers' 20-3 victory over the Steelers on Monday, Dec. 19.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners/niners-talk/Roethlisberger-suspects-49ers-targeted-h?blockID=705078&feedID=2800

salamander
05-09-2012, 05:33 PM
He shouldn't have played in that game regardless.

The Duke
05-09-2012, 05:43 PM
you know his ankle is hurt, you're gonna go after it. Simple logic

BlacknGoldBabe
05-09-2012, 05:47 PM
He shouldn't have played in that game anyhow. Give him some cheese with his whine.

Steeltreal
05-09-2012, 05:52 PM
He shouldn't have played in that game anyhow. Give him some cheese with his whine.:thumbsup:

steelerdude15
05-09-2012, 06:08 PM
Yeah, at this point this isn't a big deal. The game has been over for months.

Devilsdancefloor
05-09-2012, 06:40 PM
Um ben you where playing football not chess kinda sad he said anything.

86WARD
05-09-2012, 06:48 PM
Pretty sure he was "targeted" in every game...lol. How's that nose?!?

Count Steeler
05-09-2012, 06:53 PM
I seem to remember Ben saying something soon after the game about the way the Niners twisted his ankle when they had the opportunity.

But, yeah, this is the NFL, blood will attract sharks. No need to bring this up now. Just leave it in your back pocket and get even when/if we play them in the SB.

siss
05-09-2012, 06:59 PM
*in a very calm voice* Ben was answering a question.

polamalubeast
05-09-2012, 07:03 PM
One thing is sure, this game was a nightmare for the steelers

It was impossible to win in his conditions because of the injury of Ben, the suspension of Harrison and the fact that the 49ers had the best defense in the nfl

Edman
05-09-2012, 08:00 PM
Um, who cares?

I don't care if Ben was answering a question, just say "no comment" and move on.

zulater
05-09-2012, 08:16 PM
Um, who cares?

I don't care if Ben was answering a question, just say "no comment" and move on.

That's what you would do. That's probably what I would do. But that's not Ben. He is who he is. And I've learned to accept him warts and all. The guy's a franchise quarterback who's taken us to 3 Super Bowls already. I don't need to pigeon hole him into what I think is the right way to respond to every question. He's different, it's part of what makes him great. You should appreciate him for what he is already.

Iron Steeler
05-09-2012, 08:39 PM
Offseaaon topic that will be vanished after the first game kicks off

Steeltreal
05-09-2012, 08:44 PM
It comes with the territory...

Godfather
05-09-2012, 09:17 PM
It comes with the territory...

Off topic but I love your avatar. Looks like you've been hanging out at Knobbe's site.

X-Terminator
05-09-2012, 09:25 PM
Yeah, so? I'd be shocked if the 49ers didn't target him and his foot. If you're feeling well enough to get on the field, you are fair game as far as I'm concerned. The Steelers should have kept him out of that game if they didn't want that to happen.

Steeltreal
05-09-2012, 09:27 PM
Off topic but I love your avatar. Looks like you've been hanging out at Knobbe's site. Dunno wat that is but this my favorite video

http://youtu.be/TUVpE69U5Lo

zulater
05-09-2012, 09:37 PM
Yeah, so? I'd be shocked if the 49ers didn't target him and his foot. If you're feeling well enough to get on the field, you are fair game as far as I'm concerned. The Steelers should have kept him out of that game if they didn't want that to happen.

The Steelers aren't complaining. I'm not even sure Ben is. I think he's just commenting on what transpired that night.

That wasn't an easy call for Tomlin to make. Particularly with the Ravens losing to Seattle, which put the Steelers temporarily in control of their won destiny as far as playoff seeding goes.

GBMelBlount
05-09-2012, 09:53 PM
Yeah, so? I'd be shocked if the 49ers didn't target him and his foot. If you're feeling well enough to get on the field, you are fair game as far as I'm concerned. The Steelers should have kept him out of that game if they didn't want that to happen.

Agreed. It's football. Would our defense not target our oppositions weaknesses?

....and if Ben points it out it is arguably just Ben being honest.

...and I agree the decision to play Ben was completely neanderthal.

steelreserve
05-09-2012, 11:08 PM
Well, duh. He might as well have gone out there with a bull's-eye taped to his back. And ankle. I mean, hockey players aren't even shy about admitting they go after guys with injuries.

While I can say in hindsight it was stupid to play him that game, at the time we really really needed the win. Although once it was obvious that he was completely ineffective, which was pretty quickly, they should've taken him out.

suitanim
05-10-2012, 05:32 AM
Didn't he lobby to play in that game?

bayz101
05-10-2012, 05:37 AM
Didn't he lobby to play in that game?

BINGO.

Count Steeler
05-10-2012, 05:54 AM
Didn't he lobby to play in that game?

Yes, but the coaching staff should have stepped in. Especially after he was ineffective.

suitanim
05-10-2012, 08:35 AM
Yes, but the coaching staff should have stepped in. Especially after he was ineffective.

Not disagreeing, just saying it's a little...disingenuous to lobby to play with an injury in a league where everyone knows teams are going to try to take players out and will do so by targeting injuries, then complaining about it after the fact.

siss
05-10-2012, 08:59 AM
He asked him if he ever felt he was a target of a bounty. Roethlisberger pointed a finger at San Francisco, where he played with a high ankle sprain, threw three interceptions and the Steelers lost 20-3 last season.
“I don't really complain about that stuff, either. But I think when we played San Fran, I felt like there were some things going on, some extra. Now, obviously, I did have the ankle and I was playing, so there was kind of a bulls-eye on there anyway. But for the most part, guys play tough and you go into a game expecting it. I expect to be tougher than them . . .
"Sometimes you get guys -- things happen under piles and, you know, the little extra twisting of the ankles and poking, things like that," Roethlisberger elaborated. "But this whole bounty thing -- I don't know if I'd sit there and and say, 'Wow, that guy really tried to end my career.' Honestly, I don't know." [/B]

Im not seeing any whining here. I am seeing that Ben WAS ANSWERING A QUESTION.

He was being honest, even brutally honest. He didn't say they tried to take him out or end his career, he just felt there was some extras going on. He wasn't mad or angry when he said it. He was being honest.

Ben has ben called all kinds of names and criticized for not plying nice with the media and when he does and gives an honest answer, it turns into a three ring circus because people just twist what he says and THEY make it into a controversy. But if you actually read what Ben says, you would see that he wasn't whining or complaining, just answering a question.

Plus a lot of times if you hear Ben say stuff, it doesn't sound like the drama they make it out to be.

And you know what I agree with Ben. I felt from the beginning of that game they were going for his ankle.

BigNastyDefense
05-10-2012, 09:26 AM
After reading through what has already been posted in this thread, I can see that it is still the offseason.

NJarhead
05-10-2012, 09:29 AM
*in a very calm voice* Ben was answering a question.

Exactly! Some folks are too lazy to read and too vocal about their own uninformed opinions.

suitanim
05-10-2012, 09:53 AM
Exactly! Some folks are too lazy to read and too vocal about their own uninformed opinions.

If that's the case, then how about this:

Press: "Ben, have you been targeted by a bounty?"
Ben: "No."

But I guess I'm just too uninformed and can't read so I should keep that opinion to myself...

NJarhead
05-10-2012, 09:57 AM
If that's the case, then how about this:

Press: "Ben, have you been targeted by a bounty?"
Ben: "No."

But I guess I'm just too uninformed and can't read so I should keep that opinion to myself...

Hahaha. Paranoid? I was replying to a post that was posted before anything you posted you dote. Try to have the common sense to know if something I, or another poster says, applies to you or not. Or do you just live to argue?

suitanim
05-10-2012, 10:05 AM
Hahaha. Paranoid? I was replying to a post that was posted before anything you posted you dote. Try to have the common sense to know if something I, or another poster says, applies to you or not. Or do you just live to argue?

I'm opining the same as you. I think Ben can be a drama queen, and this is another occasion that leads me to think more that way, not less. Someone in another thread said something about how Ben answers versus how Peyton Manning answers questions. My INFORMED OPINION is that if Manning was asked this question, his answer probably would've been more like my example then what Ben said.

Anyway, he shouldn't have played in that game to begin with...so this whole thread should never have existed in the first place.

NJarhead
05-10-2012, 10:21 AM
I'm opining the same as you. I think Ben can be a drama queen, and this is another occasion that leads me to think more that way, not less. Someone in another thread said something about how Ben answers versus how Peyton Manning answers questions. My INFORMED OPINION is that if Manning was asked this question, his answer probably would've been more like my example then what Ben said.

Anyway, he shouldn't have played in that game to begin with...so this whole thread should never have existed in the first place.

Still not sure why you responded to my post as it wasn't directed at you and we seem to agree about the issue.
I agree with the bolded stuff.
The article was BS. The thread is just news sharing. Same as any other day.

siss
05-10-2012, 12:10 PM
I'm opining the same as you. I think Ben can be a drama queen, and this is another occasion that leads me to think more that way, not less. Someone in another thread said something about how Ben answers versus how Peyton Manning answers questions. My INFORMED OPINION is that if Manning was asked this question, his answer probably would've been more like my example then what Ben said.

Anyway, he shouldn't have played in that game to begin with...so this whole thread should never have existed in the first place.

When Manning was asked to comment on the Colts' new offensive staff
When Moore left, his caustic response:

“There’s not a lot of coaching going on, I can assure you of that”.

And after Polian was fired he said something equally as caustic:

“This is not a comfortable place for healing”.

That's a far cry from "no comment"!!

In fact, Peyton rarely if ever doesn't speak his mind, but I guess he's allowed to because of the media's love affair with him.

fansince'76
05-10-2012, 12:17 PM
When Manning was asked to comment on the Colts' new offensive staff
When Moore left, his caustic response:

“There’s not a lot of coaching going on, I can assure you of that”.

And after Polian was fired he said something equally as caustic:

“This is not a comfortable place for healing”.

That's a far cry from "no comment"!!

In fact, Peyton rarely if ever doesn't speak his mind, but I guess he's allowed to because of the media's love affair with him.

It's also worth noting in reference to the Niners game that Ben could have (very easily and in this case, rightfully) thrown his craptastic OL under the bus and started whining about "protection issues" like Manning, but he didn't. Especially considering how a rookie DE was constantly in his face after eating Starks' lunch the entire night...

suitanim
05-10-2012, 04:01 PM
When Manning was asked to comment on the Colts' new offensive staff
When Moore left, his caustic response:

“There’s not a lot of coaching going on, I can assure you of that”.

And after Polian was fired he said something equally as caustic:

“This is not a comfortable place for healing”.

That's a far cry from "no comment"!!

In fact, Peyton rarely if ever doesn't speak his mind, but I guess he's allowed to because of the media's love affair with him.

Well, SOMEONE is definitely a Ben lemming, that's for sure!

He's a great QB. And a pretty despicable person. He's getting better, but he'll never be citizen of the year. I caught flack for bashing him before, and I don't care if it happens again. From charging $100 to sign ANYTHING to his standoffishness with teammates, to the multiple off-field issues, Ben is not a great guy. And the chicks that dig him wouldn't look twice at his ugly mug if he didn't play football.

I'll support him because he's the Steelers QB, but I'm not going to lose my mind in thoughtless adoration, or stop thinking critically about the situation.

polamalubeast
05-10-2012, 05:03 PM
It's also worth noting in reference to the Niners game that Ben could have (very easily and in this case, rightfully) thrown his craptastic OL under the bus and started whining about "protection issues" like Manning, but he didn't. Especially considering how a rookie DE was constantly in his face after eating Starks' lunch the entire night...

rookie...yes,but Aldon Smith is a amazing player

But I understand your point

siss
05-10-2012, 06:08 PM
Well, SOMEONE is definitely a Ben lemming, that's for sure!

He's a great QB. And a pretty despicable person. He's getting better, but he'll never be citizen of the year. I caught flack for bashing him before, and I don't care if it happens again. From charging $100 to sign ANYTHING to his standoffishness with teammates, to the multiple off-field issues, Ben is not a great guy. And the chicks that dig him wouldn't look twice at his ugly mug if he didn't play football.
I'll support him because he's the Steelers QB, but I'm not going to lose my mind in thoughtless adoration, or stop thinking critically about the situation. you are not supporting him. You dont like him. And what makes you morally superier to him? Have you ever made a mistake? Are you perfect? Until you are a perfect person with no mistakes you have noright to call another person dispicable. Right now you are the despicable one. You arejust upset because I countered your argument that didn't fit your agenda...don't let the facts get in the way of your agenda! Don't. Test me on this. I will win.

zulater
05-10-2012, 06:10 PM
Well, SOMEONE is definitely a Ben lemming, that's for sure!

He's a great QB. And a pretty despicable person. He's getting better, but he'll never be citizen of the year. I caught flack for bashing him before, and I don't care if it happens again. From charging $100 to sign ANYTHING to his standoffishness with teammates, to the multiple off-field issues, Ben is not a great guy. And the chicks that dig him wouldn't look twice at his ugly mug if he didn't play football.

I'll support him because he's the Steelers QB, but I'm not going to lose my mind in thoughtless adoration, or stop thinking critically about the situation.

"Despicable person." Really? Who are any of us to sit in judgement of him? Does he treat his wife right? Does he treat his father, step mother and sister with respect? I don't know. Neither do you.

His teammates? Yeah he's had some strained relationships with some in the past. But others don't hesitate to call him a friend. Willie Colon, Jerome Bettis, Heath Miller, Max Starks, and Brett Keisel all seem to like Ben as a friend.

Has he acted the part of entitled frat boy in the past? Of course he has. But guess what, if you go through the league I'd imagine a good number of players were often a-holes as well. Hell I'm not sure I'd have been much better had I lived his life. People fawn at your feet because of your athletic skill from an early age. BMOC all your life. Human nature takes over and you really start believing you are a cut above, that people should treat you like you're better.

To me it's looks as if he's had his come to Jesus moment and will most likely mind his p's and q's from here on out.

Regardless, I'm sure he's like most of us. He has some good in him, and some bad. I really don't think it's fair to label him in the manner that you have given what his know behavior has been for the past two years. And previous to that, other than him being somewhat of an a-hole at times, none of us really know that's he's ever done worse than that.

X-Terminator
05-10-2012, 08:46 PM
Personally, I consider Ben to have been the prototypical "dumb jock" that needed to grow up. He has gone out of his way to do exactly that - grow up, be a man and be a better person. For that, he deserves kudos, not scorn. Those of you who still view him for what he did prior to 2 years ago really need to take a step back and give credit where credit is due. There is not one person here who is perfect or who has never made a mistake in their lives, so...as I like to say...make sure you have your own house in order before you call out someone else for their behavior.

BigNastyDefense
05-10-2012, 09:09 PM
Personally, I consider Ben to have been the prototypical "dumb jock" that needed to grow up. He has gone out of his way to do exactly that - grow up, be a man and be a better person. For that, he deserves kudos, not scorn. Those of you who still view him for what he did prior to 2 years ago really need to take a step back and give credit where credit is due. There is not one person here who is perfect or who has never made a mistake in their lives, so...as I like to say...make sure you have your own house in order before you call out someone else for their behavior.

Exactly.

Remember, he was accused of doing something horrible twice, but he was never charged with a crime in either case. Athletes have gold diggers coming after them all the time. The first one was certifiably insane, the second one changed her story multiple times. Neither of them were exactly solid in their accusations.
Was he a bad teammate? Who knows? In a 53 player locker room, not everybody is going to get along. I am sure some people didn't like him simply because he was the star QB who got too much credit when the team won (and those same players forget about how the QB also normally gets too much blame when the team loses also).

But what I do know is that he's done a damn good job of turning things around. We haven't heard of him doing anything bad in the news. He hasn't beaten his wife. He's at least trying to become a better teammate, though I am sure there will be guys in the locker room that still don't (and will probably never) like him. However there are a number of players that seem to like him and even consider him a friend.

To call him a "despicable person" is pretty damn strong. I would bet that you're not perfect, that you have made some mistakes. Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

zulater
05-10-2012, 10:03 PM
To call him a "despicable person" is pretty damn strong. I would bet that you're not perfect, that you have made some mistakes. Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

http://www.nowgames.com/images/e/BG1382.jpg

I can't help but think of Daffy duck with all this "despicable" talk going on. :chuckle:

fansince'76
05-10-2012, 10:06 PM
http://www.nowgames.com/images/e/BG1382.jpg

I can't help but think of Daffy duck with all this "despicable" talk going on. :chuckle:

In Daffy's case, it's more like "You're DITHPICABLE!" :chuckle:

suitanim
05-11-2012, 05:49 AM
Aha!

I'm not an NFL QB...I'm a nobody posting on a message board. What difference does it make what kind of person I am? Who cares? It's completely irrelevant.

The FACT is, this is just like when the steroid thing broke. All the fans started pointing fingers at all the other guys on other teams, and ignored the steroid problems on their own. I was quick to point out to my fellow Indians fans that Travis Hafner was almost CERTAINLY juicing...and the exact same thing happened "Who are YOU to accuse Hafner! How Dare YOU say that!". I saw the same kind of weird support on Pittsburgh boards for that douchebag Barry Bonds. Just because he plays or played for your team shouldn't give the guy special dispensation from critical analysis, and how would criticizing a player ever mean an ad hom attack on the person pointing it out is somehow suddenly okay and logical?

It's nonsense! What difference does it make WHO points out the obvious? If Ben was playing for the Browns, or the Ravens, the same people defending him would be trashing him out left and right.

I'll give Ben some credit...he seems to be trying. But, if one were to compile a timeline of his actions and statements, both in and out of the clubhouse (and I'll do it if necessary just to prove a point), the pattern that will emerge ain't gonna be of Barney the Dinosaur.

Finally, The "people in glass houses" is particularly off-base, because if thinking critically and opining about those thoughts if it includes critique of others requires self-perfection, than basically nobody but Jesus will ever be allowed to have an opinion on the character of anybody!

GBMelBlount
05-11-2012, 06:02 AM
I think the important thing is it seems Ben realizes he was an unmitigated ass and is really working hard to be a better man in all areas of his life.

siss
05-11-2012, 06:33 AM
Aha!

I'm not an NFL QB...I'm a nobody posting on a message board. What difference does it make what kind of person I am? Who cares? It's completely irrelevant.

The FACT is, this is just like when the steroid thing broke. All the fans started pointing fingers at all the other guys on other teams, and ignored the steroid problems on their own. I was quick to point out to my fellow Indians fans that Travis Hafner was almost CERTAINLY juicing...and the exact same thing happened "Who are YOU to accuse Hafner! How Dare YOU say that!". I saw the same kind of weird support on Pittsburgh boards for that douchebag Barry Bonds. Just because he plays or played for your team shouldn't give the guy special dispensation from critical analysis, and how would criticizing a player ever mean an ad hom attack on the person pointing it out is somehow suddenly okay and logical?

It's nonsense! What difference does it make WHO points out the obvious? If Ben was playing for the Browns, or the Ravens, the same people defending him would be trashing him out left and right.

I'll give Ben some credit...he seems to be trying. But, if one were to compile a timeline of his actions and statements, both in and out of the clubhouse (and I'll do it if necessary just to prove a point), the pattern that will emerge ain't gonna be of Barney the Dinosaur.

Finally, The "people in glass houses" is particularly off-base, because if thinking critically and opining about those thoughts if it includes critique of others requires self-perfection, than basically nobody but Jesus will ever be allowed to have an opinion on the character of anybody!
You are right, only Jesus can have an opinion, you and I and Ben will face that judgment (you brought up religion, so here we go). In fact it says in the bible

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven. Luke 6:37

Matthew 7:1-5

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

You want me to continue?

You don't have to like Ben. You don't have to want to have a beer with him or be his bff. But hammering him because he says something you don't like is disrespectful. You only hear one side of the story sometimes and usually the other person makes themselves look good.

zulater
05-11-2012, 06:59 AM
Finally, The "people in glass houses" is particularly off-base, because if thinking critically and opining about those thoughts if it includes critique of others requires self-perfection, than basically nobody but Jesus will ever be allowed to have an opinion on the character of anybody!

The declarative statement in present tense, that Ben is a "despicable person." is not a critique. It's character assignment, absent of facts character assassination. If you have something to share with us that proves this to be a statement of fact please do so.

NJarhead
05-11-2012, 08:54 AM
This thread got a little off track...and a bit dumbed down....



http://www.nowgames.com/images/e/BG1382.jpg

I can't help but think of Daffy duck with all this "despicable" talk going on. :chuckle:


In Daffy's case, it's more like "You're DITHPICABLE!" :chuckle:


But this right here.....is funny has hell! haha :chuckle:

suitanim
05-11-2012, 09:11 AM
Again, the inability to separate the person from the player is not my problem here, but isn't HE the person you should listen to most?

"I got caught up being Big Ben the whole time," he told one local TV station. "Superman kept taking over Clark Kent, and you just never saw who Ben Roethlisberger was anymore. At the time, I didn't see it. I was gaining everything but losing a lot of who I was raised to be."

"I've wanted to apologize to them [fans] for so many things. For being immature, for being dumb, for being young, for not knowing any better," he told WTAE. "For getting caught up in everything that was thrown my way. ... In my heart, I know I haven't been the best person, the best quarterback for the Steelers -- I'm not talking just on the field, I'm talking off the field."

Then there is this: Now I am no fan of Goodell, but why would he say something like this at all?
Goodell told Sports Illustrated reporter Peter King that “not one, not a single (player), went to his defense” during his investigation this summer. If the Steelers were really unwilling to show support a few months ago, they certainly weren’t with the big game days away.

Why did James Harrison say this?
“Hey, at least throw a pick on their side of the field instead of asking the D to bail you out again,” Harrison said. “Or hand the ball off and stop trying to act like Peyton Manning (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=1493). You ain’t that and you know it, man; you just get paid like he does.”

Finally, all the rape charges are probably 100% bullshit. I'm guessing it's just him using up women and tossing them away, and chicks don't like it and want revenge. But it's still a morality thing. Again, maybe he changed, but, sorry, all this stuff sticks in my mind and I'm not just gonna stick my head in the sand and give the guy a free pass.

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion anyway. People are taking this WAY to personally...like I insulted their own mother or something. I'm sticking to my guns: Fan of the player, not a fan of the person. And there are a LOT of players I feel that way about in many sports. If people want to get all bent out of shape and up in my grill about it, fine, it's no bread off my table, but there's an awful lot of evidence, both direct and anecdotal that suggest I'm right on about this guy. Maybe he's changed? Only time will tell...but in my book, I'm going to be cautious and pragmatic...and I'm not going to censor my opinion simply because it's unpopular.

NJarhead
05-11-2012, 09:17 AM
Again, the inability to separate the person from the player is not my problem here, but isn't HE the person you should listen to most?

"I got caught up being Big Ben the whole time," he told one local TV station. "Superman kept taking over Clark Kent, and you just never saw who Ben Roethlisberger was anymore. At the time, I didn't see it. I was gaining everything but losing a lot of who I was raised to be."

"I've wanted to apologize to them [fans] for so many things. For being immature, for being dumb, for being young, for not knowing any better," he told WTAE. "For getting caught up in everything that was thrown my way. ... In my heart, I know I haven't been the best person, the best quarterback for the Steelers -- I'm not talking just on the field, I'm talking off the field."

Then there is this: Now I am no fan of Goodell, but why would he say something like this at all?
Goodell told Sports Illustrated reporter Peter King that “not one, not a single (player), went to his defense” during his investigation this summer. If the Steelers were really unwilling to show support a few months ago, they certainly weren’t with the big game days away.

Why did James Harrison say this?
“Hey, at least throw a pick on their side of the field instead of asking the D to bail you out again,” Harrison said. “Or hand the ball off and stop trying to act like Peyton Manning (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=1493). You ain’t that and you know it, man; you just get paid like he does.”

Finally, all the rape charges are probably 100% bullshit. I'm guessing it's just him using up women and tossing them away, and chicks don't like it and want revenge. But it's still a morality thing. Again, maybe he changed, but, sorry, all this stuff sticks in my mind and I'm not just gonna stick my head in the sand and give the guy a free pass.

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion anyway. People are taking this WAY to personally...like I insulted their own mother or something. I'm sticking to my guns: Fan of the player, not a fan of the person. And there are a LOT of players I feel that way about in many sports. If people want to get all bent out of shape and up in my grill about it, fine, it's no bread off my table, but there's an awful lot of evidence, both direct and anecdotal that suggest I'm right on about this guy. Maybe he's changed? Only time will tell...but in my book, I'm going to be cautious and pragmatic...and I'm not going to censor my opinion simply because it's unpopular.

This seems a bit like drama to me. I want to question why, but at the risk of dragging on a meaningless discussion that has gotten waaay off topic, I will refrain.

Besides, it's Friday...and a beautiful one at that.

suitanim
05-11-2012, 09:24 AM
This seems a bit like drama to me. I want to question why, but at the risk of dragging on a meaningless discussion that has gotten waaay off topic, I will refrain.

Besides, it's Friday...and a beautiful one at that.

It's very simple: I'm a fan of the player, and not a fan of the person, and that is deeply offensive to some people...and most people lash out when they are offended.

I don't even understand why it matters? Why does it matter what I think, and, further than that, what difference does it make what the guy is like off the field? He's paid to win, and he does. The Steelers are okay with him, so that's good enough for me...

NJarhead
05-11-2012, 09:30 AM
It's very simple: I'm a fan of the player, and not a fan of the person, and that is deeply offensive to some people...and most people lash out when they are offended.

I don't even understand why it matters? Why does it matter what I think, and, further than that, what difference does it make what the guy is like off the field? He's paid to win, and he does. The Steelers are okay with him, so that's good enough for me...

cool

zulater
05-11-2012, 09:33 AM
Again, the inability to separate the person from the player is not my problem here, but isn't HE the person you should listen to most?

"I got caught up being Big Ben the whole time," he told one local TV station. "Superman kept taking over Clark Kent, and you just never saw who Ben Roethlisberger was anymore. At the time, I didn't see it. I was gaining everything but losing a lot of who I was raised to be."

"I've wanted to apologize to them [fans] for so many things. For being immature, for being dumb, for being young, for not knowing any better," he told WTAE. "For getting caught up in everything that was thrown my way. ... In my heart, I know I haven't been the best person, the best quarterback for the Steelers -- I'm not talking just on the field, I'm talking off the field."

No one here is disputing that Ben's behavior at the time was lacking. How lacking is debatable and better discussed another day. But no one I've seen is saying Ben didn't need to modify his behavior.


Then there is this: Now I am no fan of Goodell, but why would he say something like this at all?
Goodell told Sports Illustrated reporter Peter King that “not one, not a single (player), went to his defense” during his investigation this summer. If the Steelers were really unwilling to show support a few months ago, they certainly weren’t with the big game days away.


James Farrior has unequivocally stated the commissioner lied about this.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell's claim that Ben Roethlisberger's teammates didn't support him following a tumultuous offseason is news to them.

"That's baloney," inside linebacker James Farrior said yesterday after the Steelers arrived in North Texas for Super Bowl XLV. "All of the guys in the locker room love Ben. No matter what people say, how people think we feel about Ben, we love the guy."

The Steelers' franchise quarterback may be a lightning rod for the media this week, but Goodell sparked the first real controversy of Super Bowl XLV.

Goodell, who visited Steelers training camp Aug. 5, told Sports Illustrated's Peter King that he talked to more than 20 of Roethlisberger's teammates during the offseason.

"Not one, not a single player, went to his defense," Goodell said in a story on SI's website yesterday. "It wasn't personal in a sense, but all kinds of stories like, 'He won't sign my jersey.' "

Sports Illustrated issued a clarification late Monday night and said Goodell was referring to NFL players — and not Roethlisberger's Steelers teammates specifically — when the commissioner said nobody came to Roethlisberger's defense.

Goodell suspended Roethlisberger for six games in April after the quarterback was accused of sexual assault. Goodell reduced the suspension to four games while lauding the changes Roethlisberger had made off the field.

Goodell's remarks caught the Steelers by surprise.

"I'm just thankful that my teammates are who they are, and I'm really appreciative of it," Roethlisberger said.

Roethlisberger's teammates rushed to his defense during the first media availability here.

Wide receiver Hines Ward said he didn't recall talking to Goodell about Roethlisberger.

Farrior said when Goodell met with the Steelers during training camp, he pressed the commissioner about Roethlisberger's suspension.

"I really didn't want to talk about anything else but the suspension," said Farrior, whom coach Mike Tomlin recently called the unquestioned leader of the Steelers. "He tried to get off the subject and really didn't give us any answers that we were looking for."



Why did James Harrison say this?
“Hey, at least throw a pick on their side of the field instead of asking the D to bail you out again,” Harrison said. “Or hand the ball off and stop trying to act like Peyton Manning (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=1493). You ain’t that and you know it, man; you just get paid like he does.”


James Harrison says a lot of stupid things. As I remember it he didn't have a great Super Bowl against the Packers either. Yet no one called him out.



Finally, all the rape charges are probably 100% bullshit. I'm guessing it's just him using up women and tossing them away, and chicks don't like it and want revenge. But it's still a morality thing. Again, maybe he changed, but, sorry, all this stuff sticks in my mind and I'm not just gonna stick my head in the sand and give the guy a free pass.

I'm not asking you to. But saying he's "despicable" is speculative commentary, yet you tried to pass it off as informed critique. Or at least that's how it came across to me.


This whole thing has been blown out of proportion anyway. People are taking this WAY to personally...like I insulted their own mother or something. I'm sticking to my guns: Fan of the player, not a fan of the person. And there are a LOT of players I feel that way about in many sports. If people want to get all bent out of shape and up in my grill about it, fine, it's no bread off my table, but there's an awful lot of evidence, both direct and anecdotal that suggest I'm right on about this guy.

Again no one's disputing Ben prior baggage.



Maybe he's changed? Only time will tell...but in my book, I'm going to be cautious and pragmatic

That's fair. But if you say that then give him a chance. Don't assume either way, that he has or hasn't changed. Saying he's "despicable" is an obvious assumption that he hasn't changed.


...and I'm not going to censor my opinion simply because it's unpopular.

Again fine. Don't want you to, don't expect you to. But if you infer that Ben was a jerk, is a jerk, and always will be a jerk, ( short of another Ben slip up)don't think it will go unchallenged.

suitanim
05-11-2012, 09:54 AM
I actually have quite publicly stated that it SEEMS like Ben has changed. But I'm also real leery of the whole new-found piousness that all these dudes seem to go through, too.

This is a mountain that's been made from a molehill anyway. There are probably a hundred famous people that I don't like as people but greatly admire their work. Doesn't everyone have a list like that?

fansince'76
05-11-2012, 10:20 AM
Then there is this: Now I am no fan of Goodell, but why would he say something like this at all?
Goodell told Sports Illustrated reporter Peter King that “not one, not a single (player), went to his defense” during his investigation this summer.

Of course, you also have to take into the account the context in which that comment was made. It was the week prior to the Steelers and the Packers playing in the Super Bowl, and in the next breath, Chucklehead (Goodell) was going on about what a wonderful human being Michael Vick was and how peachy neato keeno it would be if Vick could play in a Super Bowl. Besides, a number of Ben's teammates spoke up afterward and called Goodell's comments about "nobody coming to his defense" as complete bullshit. Guess who I believe?

siss
05-11-2012, 01:31 PM
This is the last I am going to say about this topic because it is getting harder and harder to hold back.

These are pictures that fans have sent in through the years.
http://bigben7.com/photos/thumbnails.php?album=31&page=3

This is Ben's community page from his web site.
http://bigben7.com/community/

This is the information regarding his foundation.
http://bigben7.com/community/

The point is Ben doesn't need you to be his fan. You don't have to approve of what he says or does. Ben is not a despicable person. Thats pretty strong. Watch your words. If you want Ben to act like Peyton Manning than go cheer for Manning. Ben is Ben and finding reasons to criticize him is really getting old.

siss
05-11-2012, 01:49 PM
Finally, all the rape charges are probably 100% bullshit.
Lets have a vocabulary lesson in criminal justice.

Accusation: The act of accusing or state of being accused.

Criminal Charge: in a criminal case, the specific statement of what crime the party is accused (charged with) contained in the indictment or criminal complaint.

BEN WAS NEVER CHARGED WITH ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

suitanim
05-11-2012, 03:42 PM
Lets have a vocabulary lesson in criminal justice.

Accusation: The act of accusing or state of being accused.

Criminal Charge: in a criminal case, the specific statement of what crime the party is accused (charged with) contained in the indictment or criminal complaint.

BEN WAS NEVER CHARGED WITH ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Please stop lecturing me...I've been nice to you so far out of pity, but I can tell you of ALL the people on this board who have attempted to be condescending towards me, you're probably in the very least tenable position to do so.

In fact, now that I look into it, glancing at some of your past posts, you actually contribute literally nothing I'm in the the slightest bit interested in. So, never mind, say whatever you want...I'm putting you on ignore.

X-Terminator
05-11-2012, 04:04 PM
*sighs*

I really, REALLY, hate the offseason.

siss
05-11-2012, 04:17 PM
Am I supposed to be upset about that?