Teacher upset she can't retire at 47

[zulater]

Terri List says she would tell her students not to become a teacher in Michigan.

Why?

One of the reasons is because the Saginaw Township Community School District English teacher won’t be able to retire at age 47 as she has hoped.

List was highlighted by the Michigan Education Association as one of the critics of Senate Bill 1040, which would require public school employees to contribute at least 5 percent of their compensation to their retirement plan.

The MEA reported on its website: "Saginaw Township teacher Terry (sic) List had hoped to retire in the next three years when she was 47 years old. That wouldn’t be possible under SB 1040. List would have to work another 16 years to be eligible for health benefits."

“By the time I’m 60, I would have put in 43 years of service, earning a salary at the top of the pay scale. How does that save the district money? You could hire two people for the cost of one and encourage young people to join the profession. Right now, I would not recommend to my pupils to become a teacher in Michigan.”

List didn’t respond to an email seeking comment.

According to the school’s most recent teacher’s contract, List earns between $70,000 and $80,000 a year depending upon her level of education. Factor in expected pay raises over the next 15 years and it’s likely List would make more than $90,000 by the time she retires, said Michael Van Beek, education policy director at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.

Van Beek estimated List’s pension would be $60,000 a year in retirement and it would increase 3 percent a year and she would get health benefits when she retired at age 60. Van Beek also said that it is likely that List bought “years of service” because she said she would have 43 years of service by age 60. Van Beek said that practice is basically extinct in the private sector.

Leon Drolet, chairman of the Michigan Taxpayers Alliance, called List’s comments “amazing.”

“Wow. They have reached the politicians’ level of entitlement,” Drolet said. “She thinks she is entitled to retire at 47? Holy smokes. I don’t know what more to say to that. A government employee thinking that 47 is a reasonable expectation to retire shows just how deep inside their own bubble they live, insulated from the real world.”

Charles Owens, president of the Michigan chapter of the National Federation of Independent Business, said tongue-in-cheek that List was “spot on” in her complaint.

“If you want to retire if you are 47, apparently teaching is not the place to go,” Owens said. “The least Terri could do is provide a list of places other people could go so they can retire when they are 47.”


http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=50951

My God! The inhumanity!

[suitanim]

Notice there isn't a SINGLE word about the kids? These teachers want their early retirement with full pension (so they can take another job and double dip), and their 10 weeks in the summer, and every Holiday known to man, etc, etc...The kids.....? What kids?

The Finland model works. Teachers are rock stars...they are the very best and brightest. They are paid well, but they also PRODUCE the best educated students in the World. Our education system is a joke, and the unions ruined it...that and inner-city parents who think teachers are "free" (since they don't pay taxes, it's free to them) babysitters.

[The WH]

She's right about the money though...

[ALLD]

Maybe if she saved and invested her earnings after working for 43 years she could retire anyway.

[suitanim]

Maybe if she saved and invested her earnings after working for 43 years she could retire anyway.

You actually CANNOT overpay a good teacher. Problem is, they all think they are good teachers, but it's just like everything else. There are probably 15% great teachers, 15% shitty teachers, and 60% average teachers.

[Count Steeler]

You actually CANNOT overpay a good teacher. Problem is, they all think they are good teachers, but it's just like everything else. There are probably 15% great teachers, 15% shitty teachers, and 60% average teachers.

And 10% just don't know what they are. 15+15+60=90. Sorry Suit, just couldn't resist.

I agree though, REAL teachers, those that understand their calling are priceless. They impact several lives for the better.

Those teachers that are just in it for the money or whatever other reason, should be janitors.

BTW, teachers in Toronto are grossly overpaid. That is one union that is just way too strong.

[Bluecoat96]

Notice there isn't a SINGLE word about the kids? These teachers want their early retirement with full pension (so they can take another job and double dip), and their 10 weeks in the summer, and every Holiday known to man, etc, etc...The kids.....? What kids?



I am so sick and tired of this argument. Yes...teachers get time off, but we are certainly NOT compensated for it in any way. My contract is based off of 185 work days, which does NOT include holidays, nor does it include vacation pay, or anything else like that. Our pay is simply spread out throughout the entire year.

That being said, I agree about the unions playing a part in corrupting our schools. I'm in a huge minority of teachers when I say that. I understand that because of what I do, I'm never going to get compensated on as high a level as other fields that require the same amount of schooling. I'm ok with that. I'm not in it for the money, otherwise I'd do something else. I do see teachers that live and die by the contract, and they disgust me to be honest.

[suitanim]

I am so sick and tired of this argument. Yes...teachers get time off, but we are certainly NOT compensated for it in any way. My contract is based off of 185 work days, which does NOT include holidays, nor does it include vacation pay, or anything else like that. Our pay is simply spread out throughout the entire year.

That being said, I agree about the unions playing a part in corrupting our schools. I'm in a huge minority of teachers when I say that. I understand that because of what I do, I'm never going to get compensated on as high a level as other fields that require the same amount of schooling. I'm ok with that. I'm not in it for the money, otherwise I'd do something else. I do see teachers that live and die by the contract, and they disgust me to be honest.

Sorry, you'll get not a shred of sympathy from me for all the time off teachers get. I work about 250 days a year....most people do. And my contract pays me nothing for holidays or vacations. Fact is, most people work 70% of the year while teachers only work 50%. That's significant. It's a valid argument, especially considering that you get paid directly by the taxpayers. Also, kids in Japan (and by extension, the teachers as well) are in school 240 days a year. Every school system that beats us in testing has longer school years than ours. It's an outdated system based on kids being available in the summer to work on the family farm.

As far as this argument about "overpaying" teachers, that's a tricky bit of business, and a mess that the unions actually created. I'll never forget watching the video of Michelle Rhee (superintendent of DC schools) putting to union vote the idea of merit pay where the crap teachers would have their pay reduced and the best teachers would have huge incentives and could really make some big bank. It was SOUNDLY rejected. The unions have created an environment where they actually protect the shitty teachers...you can literally get locked into automatic step-raises for pretty much just showing up for class. It's a good system for the under-performing, the same teachers that get shifted form school-to-school because teachers only get fired at a rate of like .01%.

That's actually my biggest beef with teachers unions. I don't give a crap about big pensions or huge salaries (as I said, it is impossible to overpay a great teachers because it's like making an investment with an unlimited payoff potential), because I think those things are well earned, as are perks like the ten-week summers. But this culture of protecting bad teachers is deplorable. It's infinitely DAMAGING and literally destroys the good work of other teachers. Unfortunately, the back of the teachers unions will have to be broken for us to escape this entrenched system of corruption.

Oh, Count, as to the 60/15/15, that was much more the product of doing math at 6AM rather than any kind of testament to my public school education. I came from an inner-city school and moved to Salem, Ohio for high school (an excellent school at least back in the 80's) and the curriculum was advanced AT LEAST two years of where we were in the city public school. I have no complaints at all...the teachers were almost to a one excellent, and I didn't need any remediation at all when I got to college. Unfortunately, that is the exception rather than the rule....

[Bluecoat96]

Suit, I'm not asking for sympathy at all. I was simply responding to what I perceived to be the age old argument of "Teachers are paid for their summers off," which is most certainly not the case. I am grateful for everything I receive in my job, and truly like to think of myself as a public servant to my local community. I am 100% in agreement with you on everything else. Teacher unions can serve a purpose, but DO protect far too many sub-par teachers. It's unbelieveably infuriating to me.

I am a part time teacher because of the seniority issues with our union. I am the "low man," so even though my administrators and I know I am infinitely more qualified than the music teacher above me to teach what she does, because of our broad certification and the UNION, I get reduced to 4/7 contract. Meanwhile, this "teacher" gets a full salary for entertaining kids by teaching them to sing Justin Beiber and Michael Jackson, rather than designing a curriculum that can enhance their learning, in both music AND the core subject areas. They even put her in a band class, which she has NO clue about. (but she's technically certified for it) Oh....she also got involved as a big whig in our teacher union, which I think scares off the admin as well. She also refuses to even entertain the idea of going elsewhere, thus being content to siphon off of the collective teat of the local tax-payers and to politely stick it to the admin. They have no real grounds to let her go, as she has played the system like a violin. (pun intended)

If SB5 had passed, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

I don't know if you can sense my bitterness or not. :tongue1:

[suitanim]

Suit, I'm not asking for sympathy at all. I was simply responding to what I perceived to be the age old argument of "Teachers are paid for their summers off," which is most certainly not the case. I am grateful for everything I receive in my job, and truly like to think of myself as a public servant to my local community. I am 100% in agreement with you on everything else. Teacher unions can serve a purpose, but DO protect far too many sub-par teachers. It's unbelieveably infuriating to me.

I am a part time teacher because of the seniority issues with our union. I am the "low man," so even though my administrators and I know I am infinitely more qualified than the music teacher above me to teach what she does, because of our broad certification and the UNION, I get reduced to 4/7 contract. Meanwhile, this "teacher" gets a full salary for entertaining kids by teaching them to sing Justin Beiber and Michael Jackson, rather than designing a curriculum that can enhance their learning, in both music AND the core subject areas. They even put her in a band class, which she has NO clue about. (but she's technically certified for it) Oh....she also got involved as a big whig in our teacher union, which I think scares off the admin as well. She also refuses to even entertain the idea of going elsewhere, thus being content to siphon off of the collective teat of the local tax-payers and to politely stick it to the admin. They have no real grounds to let her go, as she has played the system like a violin. (pun intended)

If SB5 had passed, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

I don't know if you can sense my bitterness or not. :tongue1:

I can, and it's well founded.

There is hope, though..."The Cleveland Plan" will help...it will be signed off on by the legislature, and if it works, it will help get rid of the crap and dead wood. It's not enough, but it's a start.

[Nadroj 20]

You actually CANNOT overpay a good teacher. Problem is, they all think they are good teachers, but it's just like everything else. There are probably 15% great teachers, 15% shitty teachers, and 60% average teachers.

I'm going to be a secondary math teacher and I do not approve of those calculations! :chuckle:

[suitanim]

I'm going to be a secondary math teacher and I do not approve of those calculations! :chuckle:

It's probably more like 80/10/10 anyway...and I KNOW that equals 100%

[Nadroj 20]

It's probably more like 80/10/10 anyway...and I KNOW that equals 100%

I'm just messing with you. Personally I feel like I'm going to love teaching and I wouldn't want to retire at 47 anyway. But she obviously has other motives and doesn't care about teaching like I am going to.

[Count Steeler]

I have a nephew and a niece in the profession. They make close to 90,000 per year. Whether that is 185 days or 250 days, that is a lot of money. Not to mention they can retire at age 55, easily.

Their is a reason that is seems that all liberal art graduates in Toronto go to teacher's college. 1 more year and you can have one of the best jobs in the province. Teaching is not easy, but don't cry me a river.

[suitanim]

I have a nephew and a niece in the profession. They make close to 90,000 per year. Whether that is 185 days or 250 days, that is a lot of money. Not to mention they can retire at age 55, easily.

Their is a reason that is seems that all liberal art graduates in Toronto go to teacher's college. 1 more year and you can have one of the best jobs in the province. Teaching is not easy, but don't cry me a river.

If they are good teachers, they are worth it. If they aren't, they aren't. Problem is, because of the unions, there's really no difference either way...

[Bluecoat96]

I have a nephew and a niece in the profession. They make close to 90,000 per year. Whether that is 185 days or 250 days, that is a lot of money. Not to mention they can retire at age 55, easily.

Their is a reason that is seems that all liberal art graduates in Toronto go to teacher's college. 1 more year and you can have one of the best jobs in the province. Teaching is not easy, but don't cry me a river.

I don't even make half of that right now. I truly hope you're not directing the "Don't cry me a river" line towards me. You don't even know me.

[Count Steeler]

I don't even make half of that right now. I truly hope you're not directing the "Don't cry me a river" line towards me. You don't even know me.

I know that teachers in the US are vastly undervalued compared to the teachers here in Toronto. I am actually shocked at the pay difference.

My comment was aimed at the teachers up here that are in it just for the money and couldn't give a damn about the kids. They are the constant complainers/whiners that make it bad for all the teachers.

[Bluecoat96]

I know that teachers in the US are vastly undervalued compared to the teachers here in Toronto. I am actually shocked at the pay difference.

My comment was aimed at the teachers up here that are in it just for the money and couldn't give a damn about the kids. They are the constant complainers/whiners that make it bad for all the teachers.

Duly noted. Thanks for clarifying. I'd more than likely be saying the same thing you are.

My district does have a teacher that earns close to $90,000. Of course, he has worked here forever, has a Masters degree and more, and also works through most of the summer teaching kids Agricultural science (Rural district) thus getting extended time added to his contract. He's a good, hard working man.

[Godfather]

I can, and it's well founded.

There is hope, though..."The Cleveland Plan" will help...it will be signed off on by the legislature, and if it works, it will help get rid of the crap and dead wood. It's not enough, but it's a start.

I have a hard time getting on board with that.

[suitanim]

I have a hard time getting on board with that.

It's actually very logical and filled with common sense...as is the Cleveland Clinic plan for paying doctors.

Not everything that comes out of Cleveland is brown and shitty...