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zulater
04-11-2012, 04:09 PM
16 wins for the Cup! :thumbsup:

steelerdude15
04-11-2012, 04:26 PM
Lets go Pens!

vasteeler
04-11-2012, 06:25 PM
normally its tough for me to root against the pens.......not this time. go flyers:behindsofa:

this should be a brutal series

zulater
04-11-2012, 08:16 PM
It's a shame offsides goals aren't reviewable.

steelerdude15
04-11-2012, 08:29 PM
Come on guys, hold them!

zulater
04-11-2012, 08:47 PM
Just getting dominated down low.

C'mon Pens! Lets Go!

zulater
04-11-2012, 08:49 PM
I knew that was coming. Blysma should have called his time out before when it first started slipping away.

We'll be lucky to get it to overtime.

If we lose this game the series is all but lost. You can't lose a 3-0 lead at home and win a series.

zulater
04-11-2012, 08:53 PM
I'll watch to the end, but that's probably it for this series. A sweep wouldn't surprise me.

zulater
04-11-2012, 08:58 PM
normally its tough for me to root against the pens.......not this time. go flyers:behindsofa:

this should be a brutal series

Go to hell. Find another thread, this is for Pens fans.

zulater
04-11-2012, 09:12 PM
When we still had a two goal lead, there was a point where we were just getting dominated down low, but Fleury kept making saves and getting stoppage's. That's when Blysma should have called his time out, and got this team it's equilibrium back. Nice we took that time out into overtime. :sarcasm:

zulater
04-11-2012, 09:19 PM
Someone has to make a play! Let's go Pens!!!!

zulater
04-11-2012, 09:24 PM
Hate to do a XT. But game set match. Season is over.

salamander
04-11-2012, 09:26 PM
Hate to do a XT. But game set match. Season is over.

Hard to disagree considering this is exactly how the Pens played against the Flyers all season.

steelerdude15
04-11-2012, 09:29 PM
Words can't describe how I feel right now. That's pretty damn bad that you have a three to nothing lead and collapse like that. I'm speechless. Just watching that game, the Pens got sloppier as the game progressed. Talk about inconsistent.

steelerdude15
04-11-2012, 09:33 PM
Hate to do a XT. But game set match. Season is over.

As much as the lose sucks, we can still move on.

steelerdude15
04-11-2012, 09:34 PM
Biggest issue: letting the foot off the pedal, you can't do that. Why? Why do teams in all sports do this?

zulater
04-11-2012, 09:39 PM
Biggest issue puck possession. They just dominated the puck for long stretches of the 3rd period. Blysma really was an idiot not to use a time out to try to stem the tide before it was too late.

steelerdude15
04-11-2012, 09:40 PM
All I can do is shake my head. I really hope that they learn from tonight. I hope they learn NOT to let off the pedal.

X-Terminator
04-11-2012, 09:40 PM
Looks like I made a good decision to not watch the game tonight, which means I'm not watching Friday night, either. My blood pressure is thanking me for it.

This is exactly why I did not want the Pens to face the Flyers. For some reason they love letting them back into the game, and the Flyers being a very good team, they take full advantage. If the Pens don't win Friday night, this series is over.

steelerdude15
04-11-2012, 09:44 PM
Looks like I made a good decision to not watch the game tonight, which means I'm not watching Friday night, either. My blood pressure is thanking me for it.

This is exactly why I did not want the Pens to face the Flyers. For some reason they love letting them back into the game, and the Flyers being a very good team, they take full advantage. If the Pens don't win Friday night, this series is over.

Just can't let of the gas pedal. Just can't do it.

salamander
04-11-2012, 09:47 PM
Moving on. It was only game 1.

zulater
04-11-2012, 09:50 PM
All I can do is shake my head. I really hope that they learn from tonight. I hope they learn NOT to let off the pedal.

That wasn't it at all. They shut down our power play and Malkin's line. Malkin can't play without the puck. I'd say the Flyers controlled the puck 65% of the time Malkin's line was on the ice. The power play generated some chances. But not enough. Their kill was better than our will.

Of course even as lousy as we played if an offsides goal is disallowed ( as it should have been) or Staal's wrister goes in instead of clanking off the post ( would have put us up 4-1) we would have won.

I don't know if that encourages me going foward of makes me think it's just not our year?

steelerdude15
04-11-2012, 09:50 PM
Moving on. It was only game 1.

That's a good way to look at it. Like I said earlier, they just can't let off the gas pedal.

steelerdude15
04-11-2012, 09:51 PM
That wasn't it at all. They shut down our power play and Malkin's line. Malkin can't play without the puck. I'd say the Flyers controlled the puck 65% of the time Malkin's line was on the ice. The power play generated some chances. But not enough. Their kill was better than our will.

Of course even as lousy as we played if an offsides goal is disallowed ( as it should have been) or Staal's wrister goes in instead of clanking off the post ( would have put us up 4-1) we would have won.

I don't know if that encourages me going foward of makes me think it's just not our year?

I mean, we can't let one game decide the season. Especially since it was only game one. I hope this lights a fire under their asses.

zulater
04-11-2012, 09:52 PM
Moving on. It was only game 1.

Losing a 3-0 lead in game 1 at home is a statement, and not a good one. Not impossible, but really hard to see it. Outside of sending Martin down for the rest of this series, I'm not sure what they can change. We just don't match up with the flyers.

salamander
04-11-2012, 09:54 PM
Losing a 3-0 lead in game 1 at home is a statement, and not a good one. Not impossible, but really hard to see it. Outside of sending Martin down for the rest of this series, I'm not sure what they can change. We just don't match up with the flyers.

I'm trying to be positive here. Let me have my brief moment. :chuckle:

X-Terminator
04-11-2012, 09:57 PM
I don't know if that encourages me going foward of makes me think it's just not our year?

I'm thinking it's not their year.

Now do you see why I was so angry with them for blowing their chance to beat out the Rangers for 1st overall? Although, they don't really match up well against the Sens given that they allowed 19 goals in their past 3 meetings, so that may not have been good for them either. Playing the Flyers in round 1 was a nightmare scenario that I desperately wanted them to avoid at all costs.

steelpride12
04-11-2012, 10:02 PM
Briere being back made a huge difference. The last game we beat them he was out and we all saw how he killed us tonight and always does. I'm frustrated because I would rather lose 6-0 then blow a 3 goal lead, but hey I'm used to it be honest the Pens do it OFTEN. They need to learn how to keep the pedal on the floor and NEVER let up, I do blame Bylsma sometimes, but I know that the Cryers gave it a huge push and had all the momentum by the OT.

All I can do is be positive and know it's only 1 game, but I will say if we lose the next home game, the series is over.

Go Pens.

steelerdude15
04-11-2012, 10:29 PM
Let's just hope the Pens respond and give the Flyers Hell on Friday night.

steelpride12
04-11-2012, 10:30 PM
Let's just hope the Pens respond and give the Flyers Hell on Friday night.
It's a must win man. Losing both home games means nothing, but disaster.

X-Terminator
04-11-2012, 10:32 PM
I do know one thing...this will be the last time I ever pick them to win a series against anyone. I'm sick of them constantly shitting the bed and making me look bad. Until they learn how to have a fucking killer instinct, this team will never win another Cup.

steelpride12
04-11-2012, 10:42 PM
I do know one thing...this will be the last time I ever pick them to win a series against anyone. I'm sick of them constantly shitting the bed and making me look bad. Until they learn how to have a fucking killer instinct, this team will never win another Cup.
It just makes me so upset because look at this line up, they are loaded offensively and defensively, but don't show it on the ice. What happened to the fucking D. Martin and Mikalek have been busts this whole season and it's sad.

steelerdude15
04-11-2012, 10:42 PM
It's a must win man. Losing both home games means nothing, but disaster.. I know, it will be a hard hole to climb out of if they lose, one that can be climbed out of, but a hard one.

X-Terminator
04-11-2012, 10:52 PM
It just makes me so upset because look at this line up, they are loaded offensively and defensively, but don't show it on the ice. What happened to the fucking D. Martin and Mikalek have been busts this whole season and it's sad.

Their D has been a problem ever since Sid came back, because before then they were a top 10 defensive team. It hasn't just been Martin and Michalek, but Orpik hasn't played well and the forwards aren't doing nearly enough to help. They are so preoccupied with offense that they end up playing sloppy hockey and give their opponents too many chances. They still don't understand that playing solid defense allows them to play their game because it would allow them to control the puck more often. The Wings have done it that way for years, which is why they have been so successful. The Pens had better figure it out - and find their killer instinct - or there's just going to be more of the same. Skill alone will not win you championships.

vasteeler
04-12-2012, 06:45 AM
Go to hell. Find another thread, this is for Pens fans.

wow!!. no need to be an ass

zulater
04-12-2012, 07:25 AM
wow!!. no need to be an ass

How the hell do you reconcile being a Steeler fan and Flyer fan? Just doesn't go together. Be like someone liking Alabama football and L.S.U basketball. Doesn't seem to mix?

But more to the point, I live in Flyer country. Bad enough I got to put up with undoubtedly the worst fan base in all of American sports on a daily basis. I really don't expect to see it here on what is clearly a largely segmented pro Pittsburgh message board.

That said I was out of line, sorry. I carry a lot of emotion with my fandom. I'm jazzed up for this series and just I'm not into rationale discussion with an enemy fanbase.

Post as you like where you like, but if this series goes where i think it's going I'll probably end up putting you on ignore. ( which I'm sure you wont mind being as I'm an ass :lol:) I get enough shit from the surrounding folk where I live. On this thread I'm looking for commiseration or celebration from fellow Penguin fans.

Again sorry though.

A couple weeks after the season is concluded I'll shelve it all. But for now, I'm not looking for the Flyer fans point of view.

steelerdude15
04-12-2012, 09:37 AM
Their D has been a problem ever since Sid came back, because before then they were a top 10 defensive team. It hasn't just been Martin and Michalek, but Orpik hasn't played well and the forwards aren't doing nearly enough to help. They are so preoccupied with offense that they end up playing sloppy hockey and give their opponents too many chances. They still don't understand that playing solid defense allows them to play their game because it would allow them to control the puck more often. The Wings have done it that way for years, which is why they have been so successful. The Pens had better figure it out - and find their killer instinct - or there's just going to be more of the same. Skill alone will not win you championships.

Special teams will play a factor as well. It was evident last night. You simply cannot let big chances slip. The Pens went zero for three and the Flyers went one for one. The Pens need to also fix this as well. Take advantage of the PP and kill it when you have to, but the best thing they can do is not to get any penalties in the first place.

steeldevil
04-12-2012, 09:40 AM
Wow I went to a movie after the first period when it was 3-0 and didn't even look at the score until now. Unbelievable...

steelerdude15
04-12-2012, 09:44 AM
Wow I went to a movie after the first period when it was 3-0 and didn't even look at the score until now. Unbelievable...

Unbelievable is the right word to describe it for Pens fans. There are a couple of ways to fix this and not allow this to happen again. As XT pointed it out, defense and as I pointed out, special teams. If you fix those two things plus puck management, we should be able to beat them. O, one more thing, DON'T LET OFF THE GAS PEDAL.

bayz101
04-12-2012, 10:00 AM
Go to hell. Find another thread, this is for Pens fans.

What a polite young man you are :chuckle:

You know, i'm a Pen's fan myself, but I didn't notice anywhere where it said "Pens fans only" :thumbsup:

:countdown

bayz101
04-12-2012, 10:02 AM
wow!!. no need to be an ass

Yeah, I thought that was messed up too. Maybe he was just messing, but either way, not very homely :chuckle:

steelerdude15
04-12-2012, 10:05 AM
Yeah, I thought that was messed up too. Maybe he was just messing, but either way, not very homely :chuckle:

Emotions are going to fly in this thread for this series. Huge rivalry so expect some hostility for a little while.

X-Terminator
04-12-2012, 10:08 AM
I don't have a problem with vasteeler posting here. Even though he's a Flyers fan, he would keep it respectful if and when they beat the Pens. He's not the type to rub it in like most Flyers fans.

bayz101
04-12-2012, 10:09 AM
Emotions are going to fly in this thread for this series. Huge rivalry so expect some hostility for a little while.

Yeah, I understand that. Just have to be careful.

steelerdude15
04-12-2012, 10:12 AM
Yeah, I understand that. Just have to be careful.

Yup. It's going to be an emotional series for both sides. We just have to do our best and keep those emotions in check.

X-Terminator
04-12-2012, 10:13 AM
Yup. It's going to be an emotional series for both sides. We just have to do our best and keep those emotions in check.

Try not watching. Works wonders for your emotions. :thumbsup: :wink02:

bayz101
04-12-2012, 10:16 AM
Try not watching. Works wonders for your emotions. :thumbsup: :wink02:

And your blood pressure :chuckle:

steelerdude15
04-12-2012, 10:17 AM
Try not watching. Works wonders for your emotions. :thumbsup: :wink02:

O I'll be watching. :chuckle: Even if I didn't watch it would still affect my emotions.

steelerdude15
04-12-2012, 10:32 AM
Pens Inside Scoop ‏ @PensInsideScoop
#Pens lines are unchanged: 14-71-18, 26-87-9, 24-11-48, 45-46-27, 25-15-12. Follow the prac. updates here: http://bit.ly/HNMPJR -MC

steelerdude15
04-12-2012, 10:34 AM
ROOT SPORTS™ | PIT ‏ @ROOTSPORTSPIT
Back to work! -DP http://yfrog.com/oeqsjihj

https://yfrog.com/oeqsjihj:iphone

The guys are back to work as we speak.

steelerdude15
04-12-2012, 10:39 AM
11:30 AM:
A pretty spirited practice so far from the guys. They're jawing at each other and are quite animated on the ice. It appears that they've put the Game 1 loss behind them. This is the workings of a veteran team.

--Sam Kasan

Via Pens Report

X-Terminator
04-12-2012, 10:43 AM
Yeah well, we'll see what that "veteran team" is made of tomorrow night.

steelerdude15
04-12-2012, 10:50 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_Pittsburgh_Penguins_season

Scroll down to the playoff log and look at the Caps and Red Wings series and tell me what you see. They can overcome deficits.

steelerdude15
04-12-2012, 10:55 AM
11:42 AM:
The Pens experimenting with a new-look power play at practice. Sullivan returns to the point with Letang. Malkin and Kunitz are still up front. But Crosby and Neal are rotating during the drills.

The Pens are using a lot of different variations, mixing and matching a lot of players on the first and second power play units. Martin and Crosby also worked the points. Crosby worked the halfwall at different times. Cooke, Staal and Kennedy took different shifts up front.

--Sam Kasan

Via Pens Report

bayz101
04-12-2012, 11:01 AM
11:42 AM:
The Pens experimenting with a new-look power play at practice. Sullivan returns to the point with Letang. Malkin and Kunitz are still up front. But Crosby and Neal are rotating during the drills.

The Pens are using a lot of different variations, mixing and matching a lot of players on the first and second power play units. Martin and Crosby also worked the points. Crosby worked the halfwall at different times. Cooke, Staal and Kennedy took different shifts up front.

--Sam Kasan

Via Pens Report

:doh:

Why do these writers post this for the other team to read :rofl2:

steelerdude15
04-12-2012, 11:03 AM
:doh:

Why do these writers post this for the other team to read :rofl2:

Yeah, but they aren't being too specific on what they're doing.

Devilsdancefloor
04-12-2012, 11:17 AM
ok WTH happened i went to bed they where wining 3-1 about halfway through the 2nd

X-Terminator
04-12-2012, 11:22 AM
ok WTH happened i went to bed they where wining 3-1 about halfway through the 2nd

Shitty defense and complacency happened. The kiss of death in any playoff game or series.

As for the PP, it's real simple:

Sullivan and Letang on the points
Crosby, Malkin, Neal up front

Make it so.

X-Terminator
04-12-2012, 11:24 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–09_Pittsburgh_Penguins_season (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_Pittsburgh_Penguins_season)

Scroll down to the playoff log and look at the Caps and Red Wings series and tell me what you see. They can overcome deficits.

One small difference with that team compared to this one. They had a legitimate shutdown D pair, compared to Letang and a bunch of overpaid guys that suck.

SteelMember
04-12-2012, 11:31 AM
One small difference with that team compared to this one. They had a legitimate shutdown D pair, compared to Letang and a bunch of overpaid guys that suck.

You sure liked them a lot when we signed them. :wtf:

Martin, especially, has really under performed... or sucks as you put it. :chuckle:

X-Terminator
04-12-2012, 11:39 AM
You sure liked them a lot when we signed them. :wtf:

Martin, especially, has really under performed... or sucks as you put it. :chuckle:

Well yeah, because I actually thought they would, you know, play up to the level that earned them those big, fat contracts? Martin and Michalek have played like absolute dogshit all year and Orpik has been terrible most of the second half of the season. Those three guys are eating up a total of $12.75 million in cap space. For that much money, I expect better. WAY better.

SteelMember
04-12-2012, 11:53 AM
Well yeah, because I actually thought they would, you know, play up to the level that earned them those big, fat contracts? Martin and Michalek have played like absolute dogshit all year and Orpik has been terrible most of the second half of the season. Those three guys are eating up a total of $12.75 million in cap space. For that much money, I expect better. WAY better.

I don't disagree. They did look a lot better in the Store Window.

It did seem like they tried to squat on that 3 goal lead way too early though. There was even a comment that Bylsma was telling his guys "he liked the pressure, but didn't want that 3rd forward mixing it up down low."

I'm not saying that was what was going on, but it sure seemed to work early. Taking them out of their game seemed to be worse. Forwards dropping back to defend more seem to cause more confusion on this team.

steelpride12
04-12-2012, 12:00 PM
I don't have a problem with vasteeler posting here. Even though he's a Flyers fan, he would keep it respectful if and when they beat the Pens. He's not the type to rub it in like most Flyers fans.
I do hate everything that has to do with the Flyers even some of their ignorant fans, but if they are respectful then I would never have an issue with them.

I saw on the Pens report today that they are switching up the PP which I think will favor them. Sullivan will return to the point which will allow Sid and Malkin to rotate around the boards and find ways to get open. Well see Friday.

venom
04-12-2012, 12:24 PM
If there is a guarantee in sports , the Pens will beat the Flyers on Friday night ( dont know about the series though ) . I was shocked that the Pens just stopped playing hard for the 2nd and 3rd periods .

oneforthetoe
04-12-2012, 01:07 PM
I will not give up on the Pens unless they are eliminated. Still, I have to ponder if the Flyers are just a bad match-up for us. They can match us in scoring and play better, or more consistent D. Fluery, who I thought played well last night by keeping us in the game, will have to play out of his mind if we are going to win this series.

steelerdude15
04-12-2012, 05:03 PM
PP has been reworked:

Pens Alter Power Play Look

The Penguins power play had a new look at practice Thursday afternoon at CONSOL Energy Center.

The Penguins experimented with a number of different variations on the man-advantage, but the most prominent move was returning Steve Sullivan to the point, a position he played the majority of the season, alongside defenseman Kris Letang.

Up front the Penguins had Chris Kunitz in his usual net-front position while Evgeni Malkin was along the halfwall. In the first portion of drills Sidney Crosby and James Neal swapped spots.

“We tried some different looks,” Neal said. “We’re always trying different looks and doing different things on the power play. It’s something we put a lot of emphasis on and we’ve got to be better in that area. Special teams is going to win you games and create momentum for your team.”

Read More: http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=627532&navid=DL|PIT|home

This is very important that they fix this and return it back to normal. I hope it makes a difference come Friday night.

Devilsdancefloor
04-12-2012, 05:21 PM
Shitty defense and complacency happened. The kiss of death in any playoff game or series.

As for the PP, it's real simple:

Sullivan and Letang on the points
Crosby, Malkin, Neal up front

Make it so.

worse thing that can happen to any team is try to sit on a lead. Sully is a hell of a guy to have on point i truly miss him in chitown uni. The hawks PP just plain sucked this year

zulater
04-12-2012, 07:37 PM
Yeah, I thought that was messed up too. Maybe he was just messing, but either way, not very homely :chuckle:



That said I was out of line, sorry. I carry a lot of emotion with my fandom. I'm jazzed up for this series and just I'm not into rationale discussion with an enemy fanbase.

Guess you missed where I posted this?

steeldevil
04-13-2012, 09:26 AM
Turn it around tonight Pens!

steelerdude15
04-13-2012, 10:36 AM
ROOT SPORTS™ | PIT ‏ @ROOTSPORTSPIT
Niskanen had a day off, line-up will be game time decision. -DP

X-Terminator
04-13-2012, 11:55 AM
Like I said before - they don't win tonight, they may as well make plans to hit the links at the end of next week.

bayz101
04-13-2012, 12:22 PM
Guess you missed where I posted this?

The first few words of that post we're "How the hell" so I sort of moved on at that point :chuckle:

My apologies, I understand emotions will run high. Just have to sort of control them. I have a feeling that tonight emotions will be high in a good way. Go Pens!

Kaeg
04-13-2012, 06:59 PM
A goal in 15 seconds? I'll take that! Let's keep up the intensity all game long this time!

Devilsdancefloor
04-13-2012, 07:28 PM
why isnt 87 on the PP?Just asking since i dont watch much Pens games

SCSTILLER
04-13-2012, 07:59 PM
Is it me or do the announcers on NBCSports have s love affair with the Flyers?

Hindes204
04-13-2012, 08:51 PM
Apparently the Pens don't feel like playing defense tonight

Hindes204
04-13-2012, 08:53 PM
This is ridiculous

SCSTILLER
04-13-2012, 08:59 PM
This is ridiculous

Not ridiculous, disgusting. The Pens are playing like this is an exhibition game.

Count Steeler
04-13-2012, 09:02 PM
Let's go Pens! Don't lose both games at home.

86WARD
04-13-2012, 09:12 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_5V9RaNBCBg/TwjqzvDNlwI/AAAAAAAAQTs/BJL3STWY2vs/s1600/couturier.jpg

Count Steeler
04-13-2012, 09:12 PM
Hat trick for Couturier. Turn out the lights, the party is over. What a shame.

X-Terminator
04-13-2012, 09:15 PM
Yep, they are done. No point in even paying attention to the rest of the series.

Congratulations Flyers and their fans.

SCSTILLER
04-13-2012, 09:16 PM
Hat trick for Couturier. Turn out the lights, the party is over. What a shame.

Pens keep playing like they are with no fire and hustle you will be spot on with "the party is over" quote

Count Steeler
04-13-2012, 09:17 PM
Yep, they are done. No point in even paying attention to the rest of the series.

Congratulations Flyers and their fans.

It's never over til it's over, but it's over.

steeldevil
04-13-2012, 09:39 PM
Damn man...

Hindes204
04-13-2012, 09:42 PM
Pens keep playing like there are with no fire and hustle you will be spot on with "the party is over" quote

No hustle is right. The Flyers are skating circles around them, getting to loose pucks faster, and laughing at the punk ass hits the Pens are trying to lay on them.

This sucks

steelerdude15
04-13-2012, 09:50 PM
Tonight was embarrassing to say the least...

X-Terminator
04-13-2012, 10:01 PM
It ain't lack of hustle...it's lack of defense and not making the smart and safe play when it's needed. Ben Lovejoy trying to send the puck up the middle of the ice on Couturier's 2nd goal instead of bouncing it off the boards. Terrible coverage in front of the net leaving Flyers wide open. Giving up 2 momentum-killing SHGs. Odd-man rushes. Basically, the same old shit almost from the day Crosby got back.

There had better be some BIG changes this off-season, both in personnel and in philosophy. The aggressive puck-possession scheme isn't working anymore and they obviously don't give a damn about defense. The biggest reason why they were able to get to the Final 2 years in a row was because when they needed to lock things down defensively, they were able to do it, while still being able to score when needed. There is NONE of that with this team. Unless there are changes made, there will be no more Cups for this team.

steelerdude15
04-13-2012, 10:06 PM
It ain't lack of hustle...it's lack of defense and not making the smart and safe play when it's needed. Ben Lovejoy trying to send the puck up the middle of the ice on Couturier's 2nd goal instead of bouncing it off the boards. Terrible coverage in front of the net leaving Flyers wide open. Giving up 2 momentum-killing SHGs. Odd-man rushes. Basically, the same old shit almost from the day Crosby got back.

There had better be some BIG changes this off-season, both in personnel and in philosophy. The aggressive puck-possession scheme isn't working anymore and they obviously don't give a damn about defense. The biggest reason why they were able to get to the Final 2 years in a row was because when they needed to lock things down defensively, they were able to do it, while still being able to score when needed. There is NONE of that with this team. Unless there are changes made, there will be no more Cups for this team.

I'd like to see another defensemen picked in the draft this year. I think it would certainly help. PP was a little bit better tonight, but puck management and defense was sloppy again. Plus to add insult to injury, the Flyers are just out playing them after the first period.

Godfather
04-13-2012, 10:13 PM
I saw a lot of mental mistakes tonight.

On one Cryer goal, the Kid chased the guy the whole way to the net instead of backing off to clear the rebound when he realized he wasn't going to catch him. On another goal, we had our guys clustered in front of one side of the net and nobpdy guarding the other half of the ice. Youth soccer teams know better than that. Then there was the delay of game penalty...you're allowed to knock the puck down with your hand. Why play a puck that high with your stick?? Nothing good can happen.

steelerdude15
04-13-2012, 10:51 PM
I saw a lot of mental mistakes tonight.

On one Cryer goal, the Kid chased the guy the whole way to the net instead of backing off to clear the rebound when he realized he wasn't going to catch him. On another goal, we had our guys clustered in front of one side of the net and nobpdy guarding the other half of the ice. Youth soccer teams know better than that. Then there was the delay of game penalty...you're allowed to knock the puck down with your hand. Why play a puck that high with your stick?? Nothing good can happen.

I'd say there have been mental mistakes even before the playoffs, but they've escalated these past two games.

Edman
04-13-2012, 11:32 PM
Last Year was lack of Offense that did the Pens in.

Now it's Lack of Defense that's killing them.

X-Terminator
04-14-2012, 12:05 AM
I'd say there have been mental mistakes even before the playoffs, but they've escalated these past two games.

When the team keeps making the same mental mistakes over and over again, you have to wonder about the coaching. Bylsma did a tremendous job last season and earned his Jack Adams Trophy. This year, and especially over the past 3 weeks, he has been getting badly outcoached, the team lacks focus and attention to detail. The latter 2 are inexcusable, especially from a veteran team full of guys who have been to the dance before. And let's be honest here - the Flyers are in their heads, no matter how much or how vehemently they deny it.

steelerdude15
04-14-2012, 12:18 AM
When the team keeps making the same mental mistakes over and over again, you have to wonder about the coaching. Bylsma did a tremendous job last season and earned his Jack Adams Trophy. This year, and especially over the past 3 weeks, he has been getting badly outcoached, the team lacks focus and attention to detail. The latter 2 are inexcusable, especially from a veteran team full of guys who have been to the dance before. And let's be honest here - the Flyers are in their heads, no matter how much or how vehemently they deny it.

We'll, they made some adjustments to the PP and it helped a little. I don't think its all Bylsma's fault, its also on the players as well. There are things like Malkin being completely shut down and not making adjustments for him that shows we are being out coached as well.

oneforthetoe
04-14-2012, 01:50 AM
They are getting schooled

zulater
04-14-2012, 05:41 AM
It's not over until someone loses four. Stranger things have happened, I'm not giving up until it's officially over.

Just win one of the next two, get it to 3-1, then chip away one at a time until the comeback's complete.

zulater
04-14-2012, 05:55 AM
Strangely enough as I predicted this team is worse with Sid Crosby than without him. Without him everyone had a role, knew their role, and played up to their role. Now we get a bunch of spectators waiting for 87 and 71 to perform magic. And as I also feared Malkin just isn't the same player when Sid show up. I don't know if he's trying to do too much or too little? Well actually in turn he does both. He needs to quit trying to beat 3 guys on every rush. He needs to quit hanging around center ice waiting for a breakout pass and back check more.

Devilsdancefloor
04-14-2012, 08:38 AM
ok i watched the whole game last night and to be honest i see a team that has to big of a head everyone was picking them to make it to the finals. I think they bought into that and going through the motions

salamander
04-14-2012, 10:52 AM
On a side note, the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Pens open their playoffs next Friday and Saturday at home against the rival Hershey Bears.

Godfather
04-14-2012, 01:11 PM
I don't think its all Bylsma's fault, its also on the players as well.

I agree. The mental errors I saw can't really be blamed on the coach. These are veteran players who know better.

Godfather
04-14-2012, 01:12 PM
Strangely enough as I predicted this team is worse with Sid Crosby than without him. Without him everyone had a role, knew their role, and played up to their role. Now we get a bunch of spectators waiting for 87 and 71 to perform magic. And as I also feared Malkin just isn't the same player when Sid show up. I don't know if he's trying to do too much or too little? Well actually in turn he does both. He needs to quit trying to beat 3 guys on every rush. He needs to quit hanging around center ice waiting for a breakout pass and back check more.

I can remember a season about 20 or so years ago where the Pens had a better record without Mario than with him. It was the same problem...without 66 in the lineup everyone stepped up and tried to fill the void. With him, everyone let up and waited for Le Magnifique to take care of business.

X-Terminator
04-14-2012, 02:31 PM
Strangely enough as I predicted this team is worse with Sid Crosby than without him. Without him everyone had a role, knew their role, and played up to their role. Now we get a bunch of spectators waiting for 87 and 71 to perform magic. And as I also feared Malkin just isn't the same player when Sid show up. I don't know if he's trying to do too much or too little? Well actually in turn he does both. He needs to quit trying to beat 3 guys on every rush. He needs to quit hanging around center ice waiting for a breakout pass and back check more.

I thought about this while I was out today, and you're right. Crosby's return has disrupted the chemistry of the team that they'd built all season without him in the lineup, and they are paying for it now. I think he realized this somewhat when he agreed to pull himself off the top PP unit. I mean, you want to have the best possible team out there so you can't tell Sid to take the rest of the season off when he was clearly feeling well enough to return. But I can't deny it any longer - the Pens are very well going to make another first-round exit, and Sid is part of the reason why. I still don't think he's affected Malkin's game - Malkin is trying to do too much instead of just playing his game. He does not have to do it all by himself. Anyway, next season should be different with an assumed healthy Crosby going through a full training camp where he and the team can develop chemistry from day one. That will put them in a better position to make a division title and Cup run next season if they remain reasonably healthy, make a renewed commitment to defense and put Martin, Michalek and Orpik on a raft headed to the middle of the Atlantic.

zulater
04-14-2012, 02:49 PM
put Martin, Michalek and Orpik on a raft headed to the middle of the Atlantic

I think Orpik is salvageable I'll just chalk the end of this season up to a slump. . Martin and Michalek absolutely need to be set adrift. .

steelerdude15
04-14-2012, 07:45 PM
I thought about this while I was out today, and you're right. Crosby's return has disrupted the chemistry of the team that they'd built all season without him in the lineup, and they are paying for it now. I think he realized this somewhat when he agreed to pull himself off the top PP unit. I mean, you want to have the best possible team out there so you can't tell Sid to take the rest of the season off when he was clearly feeling well enough to return. But I can't deny it any longer - the Pens are very well going to make another first-round exit, and Sid is part of the reason why. I still don't think he's affected Malkin's game - Malkin is trying to do too much instead of just playing his game. He does not have to do it all by himself. Anyway, next season should be different with an assumed healthy Crosby going through a full training camp where he and the team can develop chemistry from day one. That will put them in a better position to make a division title and Cup run next season if they remain reasonably healthy, make a renewed commitment to defense and put Martin, Michalek and Orpik on a raft headed to the middle of the Atlantic.

It does seem that when Sid came back, the team started to struggle. I do feel however that this is a smaller part of the reason why things aren't looking good right now. I was also thinking today about Malkin and his play these past two games. Not only is he trying to do so much, he's also being shut down by the Flyers. I believe the coaching staff should find ways to set him free and allow him to dominate again.

zulater
04-15-2012, 02:17 PM
Please make it respectable and win today Pens! :pray:

The WH
04-15-2012, 02:41 PM
I GET TO LISTEN TO THE GAME!!!

And my heart still breaks every time I hear them say "The Philladelphia Flyers' Max Talbot".

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 02:41 PM
Please make it respectable and win today Pens! :pray:

Not looking like that is going to happen!

The WH
04-15-2012, 02:42 PM
2-1 son of a bitch. Briere is such a punk. I hate him.

The WH
04-15-2012, 02:43 PM
Not looking like that is going to happen! If the last two games are any proof...there are 3 periods to every game.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 02:44 PM
If the last two games are any proof...there are 3 periods to every game.

Not true, in the Penguins world right now there is only one period! I hope that world ends today and they play all three

The WH
04-15-2012, 02:46 PM
Not true, in the Penguins world right now there is only one period! I hope that world ends today and they play all three true and agreed. That world better end, their going to need it.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 02:49 PM
Game, Set, Match!

The WH
04-15-2012, 02:50 PM
3-1 it sucks, but it's the most deceptively safe score in Hockey.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 02:53 PM
3-1 it sucks, but it's the most deceptively safe score in Hockey.

I hope that you are right WH! Whip his ass Crosby!

The WH
04-15-2012, 02:54 PM
Crosby fighting. Please skate off the ice throwin' up a shhhhh.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 02:55 PM
Giroux got whipped up on by Crosby, and Letang beat the crap out of Timmonen! Hopefully that will light a fire under the Penguins players asses!

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 03:02 PM
Way to go Asham!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The WH
04-15-2012, 03:04 PM
Not good to lose two defensemen. But whatever, lump them up, not like our defense is doing anything anyways.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 03:06 PM
Not good to lose two defensemen. But whatever, lump them up, not like our defense is doing anything anyways.

Couldn't agree with you more! I think it was BS that Letang got sent off and Timmonen didn't. They both dropped the gloves, just so happened that Letang won the fight.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 03:08 PM
Way to go Neal! What a great goal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! Hopefully that lights the fire under the Pens asses!

The WH
04-15-2012, 03:08 PM
Holy shit James NEal. Holy shit.

The WH
04-15-2012, 03:09 PM
Holy shit holy shit. I can't get over how sweet that was.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 03:09 PM
Scratch that idea! I think I am going to go wash my car

The WH
04-15-2012, 03:15 PM
Still a crapload of game left. The Pens have come back from down more against better.

Count Steeler
04-15-2012, 03:18 PM
Might want to change goalies for the remainder of this game.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 03:19 PM
I really think that they need to yank Fleury! He is playing like a high school back up right now. Too many easy rebounds that he should be controlling. I think the majority of the Flyers goals have come off of second chances and rebounds. I know that he is one of the best goalies in the game, but right now he isn't even close.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 03:20 PM
Might want to change goalies for the remainder of this game.

Beat me to it

Count Steeler
04-15-2012, 03:22 PM
Beat me to it

Pens need a mental shift. Changing the goalie might do it.

The WH
04-15-2012, 03:25 PM
Sort of like "Hey, listen, Fleury isn't in anymore, and Johnson needs your help. Play some god damn defense."

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 03:25 PM
Pens need a mental shift. Changing the goalie might do it.

Yep. Speaking of the mental aspect of the game, Fleury isn't mentally in this series right now. So, changing goalies might be a good mental shift for both the Pens and for Fleury

Count Steeler
04-15-2012, 03:26 PM
Sort of like "Hey, listen, Fleury isn't in anymore, and Johnson needs your help. Play some god damn defense."

Bingo!

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 03:27 PM
Sort of like "Hey, listen, Fleury isn't in anymore, and Johnson needs your help. Play some god damn defense."

Worse comes to Worst Johnson will skate to Bryzgalagay (whatever his name is) and knock him out whenever these benches clear.

steelerdude15
04-15-2012, 03:28 PM
So pissed...... I literally could fight a Flyers fan if they walked in my house right now...

The WH
04-15-2012, 03:30 PM
They pulled Fleury in game 5 of the Stanley Cup finals a few years ago, he came back in game 6 and 7 and played lights out. Though I could be wrong, it may have been he was pulled in 6 and played lights out in 7. Either way, you get my point.

The WH
04-15-2012, 03:30 PM
Is it sad to say that the Flyers are the team that isn't playing like a bunch of goons right now?

Count Steeler
04-15-2012, 03:32 PM
Is it sad to say that the Flyers are the team that isn't playing like a bunch of goons right now?

Pens are playing without composure. Right now, they are chippy and goony. Time to get their heads right.

Count Steeler
04-15-2012, 03:33 PM
BTW, fantastic goal by Neal. Only to be nullified by a poor play by Fleury.

The WH
04-15-2012, 03:35 PM
If the pens don't come out and score within the first 5 minutes, it's going to be a landslide to signal they are putting it all on the line and praying for a 4 game streak.

Count Steeler
04-15-2012, 03:36 PM
Fleury still in.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 03:37 PM
Sloppy and lazy power play killing. The D is just standing around

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 03:38 PM
Sloppy and lazy power play killing. The D is just standing around

But it worked

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 03:51 PM
Score! Great Power Play

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 04:09 PM
Pens PP killing sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The WH
04-15-2012, 04:14 PM
Isn't Letang a leader on the PK?

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 04:16 PM
Isn't Letang a leader on the PK?

Yeah, he is. Having him in street clothes definitely hurts, but the PP killing hasn't been good all series so I cannot believe it would be any better this game.

vader29
04-15-2012, 04:22 PM
What is the point of dressing a backup goalie if you don't have the brains to use him when it's obvious your starter is struggling?

The WH
04-15-2012, 04:26 PM
They just need to score again and hold that for longer than 3 minutes. They'll score by the end of that 4th minute to tie it up.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 04:27 PM
What is the point of dressing a backup goalie if you don't have the brains to use him when it's obvious your starter is struggling?

Part of me agrees, but the other part of me thinks that Bryzgaylove is struggling just as much. As I am typing this Brent Johnson is standing in goal. I think it is a period too late.

The WH
04-15-2012, 04:28 PM
Fleury's out. Johnson's in. It's either going to get real pretty, or real ugly.

The WH
04-15-2012, 04:29 PM
4 pens, standing still. That might be the game fella's

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 04:31 PM
4 pens, standing still. That might be the game fella's

I was just texting the same thing to my buddy. Nobody went to pick up the pass, nobody went to help Dupois. They just all sat and watched. It is a poor excuse of a defense, and team overall, right now. They came into this series playing like they already won the cup, and now they are playing this game like they have already lost the series.

The WH
04-15-2012, 04:37 PM
It's apparent right now that this team is playing like bunch of individual players, not a team. You can see it as they arent even entering the Flyers' territory as a unit. It's been just one guy skating 2 3 stick lengths ahead of the other 4. Gotta get outta this with no injuries, hopefully a win (though it's looking pretty slim) and get their shit together for some of the most intense hockey you will ever see come wednesday. Look for 0 fights on Wednesday, unless someone tries to murder Sid or Geno.

Your forwards can't be coughing the puck up this often and this easily when you only have 5 defenseman.

Phil Brooks would have them skating suicides until Tuesday.

The WH
04-15-2012, 04:40 PM
I was just texting the same thing to my buddy. Nobody went to pick up the pass, nobody went to help Dupois. They just all sat and watched. It is a poor excuse of a defense, and team overall, right now. They came into this series playing like they already won the cup, and now they are playing this game like they have already lost the series. When they talk about that goal after the game you can guarantee they will freeze frame that.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 04:41 PM
Phil Brooks would have them skating suicides until Tuesday.

Whistle Again!

Name that movie reference

The WH
04-15-2012, 04:46 PM
Miracle or Slap Shot

vader29
04-15-2012, 04:48 PM
Whistle Again!

Name that movie referenceKurt Russell in Miracle.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 04:49 PM
Kurt Russell in Miracle.

Ding, Ding, Ding, We have a winner. Tell him what he wins.........

BTW, excellent movie.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 04:50 PM
Miracle or Slap Shot

So was Slapshot.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 04:55 PM
Aww, poor Golden Boy Couterier got hurt. I think the NBC announcers are going to start to cry

The WH
04-15-2012, 04:58 PM
You gotta give their coach credit, he's getting his team to buy into whatever he's selling, and it's working. I'm beginning to worry about Disco Dan's playoff conditioning though. He may have had too much success too soon in his coaching career.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 05:00 PM
You gotta give their coach credit, he's getting his team to buy into whatever he's selling, and it's working. I'm beginning to worry about Disco Dan's playoff conditioning though. He may have had too much success too soon in his coaching career.

Great observation

The WH
04-15-2012, 05:02 PM
this is embarassing.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 05:05 PM
I absolutely, and yes it is a harsh word, hate Hartnell and his stupid mullet. "Oh, I had my hair pulled in a fight." Guess what, cut the mullet you fricking "bleep, bleep, bleep"

The WH
04-15-2012, 05:07 PM
These refs are terrible decision makers. They should be sending the entire bench back to the locker room while they sort this out. Seriously.

steelersfanman92
04-15-2012, 05:08 PM
This is embarrassing but it is what Bettman wanted in the playoff with his "let them play" and "don't blow your whistles" attitude.

SCSTILLER
04-15-2012, 05:09 PM
Talk to you all next game!

The WH
04-15-2012, 05:21 PM
I'm dissapointed that they lost. I'm more dissapointed with HOW they lost. You might see players being suspended for the next game (James Neal). Mario needs to have a long chat with Dan about what he sees for his future. He needs to get his men, teenage boys after tonights game actually, under control.

X-Terminator
04-15-2012, 06:28 PM
I'm not sure why you guys even bothered to watch the game. From what I'm reading, it was just more of the same, except for some fights and chippy play. It's clear that Bylsma has lost this team, and to be honest this is the kind of performance that coaches get fired for. Not saying he should be, but I'm not Mario or Ray Shero.

When the season ends Wednesday night, there will be a lot of soul-searching, and then some heads are going to roll. Mario will not stand for this, not for a second. There's too much talent on this team for them to play like they don't even care or are playing for themselves.

3 consecutive early exits since winning the Cup. Unbelievable...and unacceptable.

zulater
04-15-2012, 06:37 PM
Please don't anyone blame this sweep ( foregone conclusion) on the bad match up against the Flyers. The Pens would have made an early exit against anyone including the Cap's. The Pens revealed their true colors when they lost the home and home series against the pathetic Islanders with the 1 seed theirs for the taking. So I'm going to laugh my ass off when the Flyers go out in the next round because they assumed beating the Penguins actually meant something.

This was probably the most disgusting moment in Penguins history since the 92 second round playoff exit to the Islanders. Actually this was way more disgusting because at least that team had some heart, and gave some effort.

Hate to say it, but Blysma has to be fired the moment this series goes final. This team was so poorly prepared for this series I can't even find a comparable moment in NHL history. ( let alone Penguin history) He was awful. Mario knows it and hopefully will replace him.

The defense on this team has to be gutted and refitted. If it means trading Malkin or Crosby to upgrade it, so be it. You can't have two franchise centers in their prime on the same team imo. One has to go, figure it out and get the most value you can for the one that you get rid off. ( Malkin)

I'll say this right now. The Pens wont win another Cup until they choose who their franchise center is.

Count Steeler
04-15-2012, 06:46 PM
Pretty much what I was going to post Zu.

1 Fire the coach
2 Trade Crosby/Malkin and shore up the D.

The Flyers completely own them.

X-Terminator
04-15-2012, 06:51 PM
They will not trade Malkin or Crosby, so you need to stop right there. It's absolutely senseless to trade your 2 best players. If any one of the centers gets traded, it will be Staal. Besides that, how can you advocate that when they will still have 9 million dollars worth of suck in Martin and Michalek still on the payroll? Sorry, but that's just dumb.

No, what needs to end is the complacency and sense of entitlement that has clearly permeated this team. They need to realize that they aren't given a damn thing once the playoffs begin and that no matter how talented they are, they still need to work for everything they get. If that means firing Bylsma to get that point across, then so be it. The defense can be fixed by buring Martin and/or Michalek in the minors and replacing them with Despres and someone else. Hard to admit that losing Scuderi and Gill was a bad decision, because those guys did such a great job together in the 2009 Cup run. They don't have anything close to a shut-down D pairing like that.

X-Terminator
04-15-2012, 07:06 PM
Please don't anyone blame this sweep ( foregone conclusion) on the bad match up against the Flyers. The Pens would have made an early exit against anyone including the Cap's. The Pens revealed their true colors when they lost the home and home series against the pathetic Islanders with the 1 seed theirs for the taking. So I'm going to laugh my ass off when the Flyers go out in the next round because they assumed beating the Penguins actually meant something.

This was probably the most disgusting moment in Penguins history since the 92 second round playoff exit to the Islanders. Actually this was way more disgusting because at least that team had some heart, and gave some effort.

Hate to say it, but Blysma has to be fired the moment this series goes final. This team was so poorly prepared for this series I can't even find a comparable moment in NHL history. ( let alone Penguin history) He was awful. Mario knows it and hopefully will replace him.

It's interesting...and ironic...that you would say this now when I was saying some of the same things back when they were losing to the Islanders, and you were posting these:


The Pens assumed a win going in. The Islanders didn't want to be shown up and brought everything they had early, and then built on that momentum. It's the ebb and flow of sports. Shit like this happens in a long season. The Pens play to the level of their competition. When the Pens play with passion and intensity they win. Nothing that happened tonight worries me in the least.


No Letang.

Don't panic people, the Islanders aren't going to be in the playoffs.

Seriously, this is just one of those things. The Pens will get it together for the playoffs.Who cares if they're 1st, 4th, 5th? It's just a difference of one home game.


Lower seeds beat higher seeds in the NHL playoffs all the time. So I could give a fuck how they're playing now, and where they're seeded.

This is a talented team. It's strong in every important area. Yes the defense has slipped lately, but over the course of the year, when healthy they've shown they can get the job done.

Blysma's actions are telling me that getting his lines right going into the playoffs is more important than accruing points for an extra home game.

Whatever happens over the course of the final games of the season don't really concern me so long as no serious injuries are sustained by the core group of players that will determine our eventual playoff fate.

In order the players that must be healthy and productive in the playoffs are these.

1. Fleury. Series are often decided by goalies. Flower needs to clean up the messes that will be left by aggressive play by his teammates. For the most part he's been up to the task. But the last few games he's been off his game a bit. Better now than later. When it matters I expect Fleury to be up to the job.

2. Letang. This is indispensable player number 2 for the Pens. No one else on the team comes close to doing what he does. While Crosby and Malkin are incredible, as long as one of the other is in the line-up we're ok. With no Letang, things just fall apart and we can lose to the lowest of the lows as witnessed the last two games.

3.tie Malkin and Crosby. The best forwards in hockey. If both are playing at or near the top of their game and Flower and Tanger are healthy the Penguins will win the Cup period, end of story. Right now both are being a little irresponsible and committing too many turnovers. That has to stop, and it will once the playoffs begin.

5. tie Jordon Staal, Matt Cook,, and Patrick Dupius. These guys are invaluable to our special teams, which in my opinion are the best in the league.

8. tie James Neal and Chris Kunitz. Wingers who can put the puck in the net make great centers even greater.

10. Brooks Orpik. Brooks has been a little off the last couple games. But I think that's probably due to who's missing around him on the blue line.

I'm not panicking over a couple unexpected losses to a bad team that stepped up it's game. More importantly I don't think anyone in the Pens locker room is either. In fact I think this will just serve to piss them off and give them the nasty edge they need going into the playoffs. Sometimes the worst thing you can do going into the playoffs is be too hot. Because you start thinking your shit doesn't stink. It's probably what killed the Pens in 92. No fear of that happening now.

Bring on the playoffs! We're going to roll on through 'em.

I saw these problems a month ago, and was pretty much dismissed. Funny how things change, and how I ended up being right all along. I don't know why I picked them to win this series in the first place.

salamander
04-15-2012, 07:20 PM
Oh well, the WBS Pens kick off their playoffs on Friday. At least I have that to look forward to.

zulater
04-15-2012, 07:21 PM
They will not trade Malkin or Crosby, so you need to stop right there.


Why? In order to get value you have to give value. Malkin could bring back a premiere defenseman in a trade.


It's absolutely senseless to trade your 2 best players.

I'm not suggesting you trade your two best players, I'm suggesting you trade one of them ( most likely Malkin) because what's the sense of having a glut of one position when you're clearly deficient in other area's? I realize it's not entirely comparable because the games aren't nearly the same, but what's the use of having Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers on the same roster?

If any one of the centers gets traded, it will be Staal. Besides that, how can you advocate that when they will still have 9 million dollars worth of suck in Martin and Michalek still on the payroll? Sorry, but that's just dumb.

I'm all for getting rid of Martin and Michalek. But not Staal. To me he could be a modern day Ron Francis. I'm all for a second line center who doesn't need to be a star and is responsible defensively.

There's no way Malkin will stay content in Crosby's shadow. Soon he'll want to be the guy. Trade him now while his value is at it's peak and get back what you need in areas that are clearly deficient.

No, what needs to end is the complacency and sense of entitlement that has clearly permeated this team. They need to realize that they aren't given a damn thing once the playoffs begin and that no matter how talented they are, they still need to work for everything they get. If that means firing Bylsma to get that point across, then so be it. The defense can be fixed by buring Martin and/or Michalek in the minors and replacing them with Despres and someone else. Hard to admit that losing Scuderi and Gill was a bad decision, because those guys did such a great job together in the 2009 Cup run. They don't have anything close to a shut-down D pairing like that.

Agreed Gil and Scuderi were a big part of back to back Cup runs. We need to find some quality backliners in a hurry. We got dominated down low in our own end in this series. The Flyers will continue to dominate this team unless serious changes are made.

X-Terminator
04-15-2012, 07:24 PM
Oh well, the WBS Pens kick off their playoffs on Friday. At least I have that to look forward to.

I think it's funny that the Pens' playoff run will end before the Baby Pens' run even begins.

zulater
04-15-2012, 07:25 PM
It's interesting...and ironic...that you would say this now when I was saying some of the same things back when they were losing to the Islanders, and you were posting these:







I saw these problems a month ago, and was pretty much dismissed. Funny how things change, and how I ended up being right all along. I don't know why I picked them to win this series in the first place.

Great. You had your I was right moment. Good for you. Now where does that get us?


As I said months ago the bowl is too small for Malkin and Crosby to coexist. One has to go. Period. If you can't see it you're blind.

salamander
04-15-2012, 07:26 PM
I think it's funny that the Pens' playoff run will end before the Baby Pens' run even begins.

The one year it happens, only 2 of our guys are up in Pittsburgh and only one of them is actually valuable to us. (Strait). Every other time, half our team is up there. :lol:

vader29
04-15-2012, 07:26 PM
Talbot was a huge loss as a leader in the locker room, sickens me every time I see him in a Philthy Flyer uniform.

zulater
04-15-2012, 07:38 PM
Just so everyone knows. I love Sidney Crosby. I love Geno Malkin. But one of then needs to go. Quickly. It just doesn't work having two of the best thing on the same team. Does anyone who knows hockey really believe Mario and Gretzky could have played their entire career's on the same team? In an honest moment I guarantee you that Mario would tell you "hell no". Which is why I think the time is right to trade one of them now. Hell, if you can get a King's ransom from Toronto for Sid then keep Geno. I really don't care. I love and respect them both ( as players and people) but the fish bowl is too small. One has to go. The other will bring back great value. Shop them both, see what you can get back, and decide.

You'll be a better team if you make the right trade. Period.

X-Terminator
04-15-2012, 07:48 PM
Why? In order to get value you have to give value. Malkin could bring back a premiere defenseman in a trade.

Premier defenseman? Like who? And say they do trade him for one...they're going to have to pay him a lot of money. Premier defensemen don't work for peanuts.

There will never be enough value in a trade for either Malkin or Crosby, and in the process would piss off the ticket-buying public. Last thing the franchise needs right now.


I'm not suggesting you trade your two best players, I'm suggesting you trade one of them ( most likely Malkin) because what's the sense of having a glut of one position when you're clearly deficient in other area's? I realize it's not entirely comparable because the games aren't nearly the same, but what's the use of having Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers on the same roster?


So why wasn't this an issue 3 years ago? They had the same 3 guys then, and nobody said a word about it. They won the Cup with an aging Bill Guerin and Petr Sykora on the team. If anything, a Bill Guerin-type leader in the locker room is what this team lacks more than anything else. Say what you want about him, he was a HUGE reason why the Pens were able to win the Cup, because he would always keep the team grounded and focused on the task at hand. Crosby, as great a leader as he is, is not that kind of guy.

Under no circumstances should the team part with either Malkin or Crosby. Period. Having both of them on the team makes them far more formidable than without.


I'm all for getting rid of Martin and Michalek. But not Staal. To me he could be a modern day Ron Francis. I'm all for a second line center who doesn't need to be a star and is responsible defensively.

Yeah, and such a player could also get you that "premier defenseman" that you want so much. Besides that, he is going to be the odd-man out when it comes to getting a new contract, and if anyone isn't going to be happy playing a lesser role behind Sid and Geno, it's going to be him. Since the Pens aren't going to part with either Malkin or Crosby, they could deal Staal and get a nice package in return rather than lose him for nothing. You can find guys out there who can be defensively responsible playing center on the 3rd line while chipping in 20 goals like Staal has done, and would come significantly cheaper.


There's no way Malkin will stay content in Crosby's shadow. Soon he'll want to be the guy. Trade him now while his value is at it's peak and get back what you need in areas that are clearly deficient.

Even though he's given absolutely no indication that he wants to be "the guy" or is unhappy playing second-fiddle to Sid. Yeah, that makes sense. And again, it isn't going to happen.


Agreed Gil and Scuderi were a big part of back to back Cup runs. We need to find some quality backliners in a hurry. We got dominated down low in our own end in this series. The Flyers will continue to dominate this team unless serious changes are made.

The thing is they already have an NHL-ready and likely top-4 defenseman in their system right now in Despres. Joe Morrow isn't far behind, considering how great he looked in the preseason. Playing both of those guys has to be preferable to rolling out Martin and Michalek every night. At least if they screw up, you can blame youth and inexperience. What's Martin and Michalek's excuse? And playing rookies in the playoffs certainly hasn't hurt the Flyers any.

zulater
04-15-2012, 07:59 PM
So why wasn't this an issue 3 years ago?

Because it was 3 years ago. Malkin needs to be the man on a team. It's not a coincidence that he plays better when Crosby is on the sidelines. He's not complaining. He wont make an issue of it. But his play does. His play screams it in fact. Simply put, Malkin is a better player without Crosby. It doesn't mean he's selfish or a bad guy. It just means Super Stars are better in their own orbit. Malkin would be playing better right now (imho) if Sid had never came back.

Mario more than anyone knows this. Hopefully this will be the year that he insists that one of them goes to address more urgent needs, and make this something resembling a complete team again. It just doesn't work having the two best players on the planet, when they both play the same position.

X-Terminator
04-15-2012, 08:07 PM
Because it was 3 years ago. Malkin needs to be the man on a team. It's not a coincidence that he plays better when Crosby is on the sidelines. He's not complaining. He wont make an issue of it. But his play does. His play screams it in fact. Simply put, Malkin is a better player without Crosby. It doesn't mean he's selfish or a bad guy. It just means Super Stars are better in their own orbit. Malkin would be playing better right now (imho) if Sid had never came back.

Mario more than anyone knows this. Hopefully this will be the year that he insists that one of them goes to address more urgent needs, and make this something resembling a complete team again. It just doesn't work having the two best players on the planet, when they both play the same position.

So explain Malkin's Art Ross and Conn Smythe trophies in 2009, if Geno is so bad with Crosby in the lineup.

86WARD
04-15-2012, 08:10 PM
http://i39.tinypic.com/25hp9c4.png

zulater
04-15-2012, 08:11 PM
So explain Malkin's Art Ross and Conn Smythe trophies in 2009, if Geno is so bad without Crosby in the lineup.

Because he was 21 then.

Sorry nothing against either of them, but one has to go. I promise you in an honest moment Mario would tell you he could have played with Gretzky for awhile, but not forever.

zulater
04-15-2012, 08:13 PM
http://i39.tinypic.com/25hp9c4.png

If I was a moderator you'd be looking at a 6 month ban for posting that here.

X-Terminator
04-15-2012, 08:16 PM
Because he was 21 then.

Sorry nothing against either of them, but one has to go. I promise you in an honest moment Mario would tell you he could have played with Gretzky for awhile, but not forever.

Well I certainly hope the team doesn't take your advice. I do know that the rest of the NHL would be tickled pink if the Pens did that, because it would make them weaker, regardless of who they got in return. And I'm not a fan of helping out other teams.

Actually, I take part of that back. There is only one player in the league I would ever trade Geno or Sid for, and that's Stamkos. And since that's about as likely to happen as me suiting up for game 4, it makes no sense to even consider trading one of them, because like I said before there is no value out there that would be in the same area code that they could get.

steelerdude15
04-15-2012, 08:21 PM
No way in Hell would the Pens trade away Sid or Geno. That would be the dumbest thing this team could do. Trade away one of your two best players, makes perfect sense. What is this, the Pirates? I agree that the Pens need help defensively, but trading away from of your best players is a bad idea. There are other ways to address this issue like cutting players who aren't helping then signing free agents or doing it the Pittsburgh way of building through the draft.

zulater
04-15-2012, 08:22 PM
Well I certainly hope the team doesn't take your advice. I do know that the rest of the NHL would be tickled pink if the Pens did that, because it would make them weaker, regardless of who they got in return. And I'm not a fan of helping out other teams.

Yeah, like they were "weaker" a month ago, before Sid came back.

If the Steelers trade for Aaron Rodgers tomorrow and don't give up Big Ben in doing so, they have more talent but they're not a better team.

I know it worked 3 years ago. But both were younger then and that's just the dynamics of the situation as it was.

But it's different now. Both are stars. Arguably the two best players in the world. And they know it. They play the same position, the same way. It no longer works. And it wont going forward. The Pens will not win or even get to another Cup until they decide which Super star to build around.

steelerdude15
04-15-2012, 08:29 PM
Yeah, like they were "weaker" a month ago, before Sid came back.

If the Steelers trade for Aaron Rodgers tomorrow and don't give up Big Ben in doing so, they have more talent but they're not a better team.

I know it worked 3 years ago. But both were younger then and that's just the dynamics of the situation as it was.

But it's different now. Both are stars. Arguably the two best players in the world. And they know it. They play the same position, the same way. It no longer works. And it wont going forward. The Pens will not win or even get to another Cup until they decide which Super star to build around.

Since both are in their younger twenties, age isn't an issue. If anything, they have more experience and knowledge of the sport and of their bodies. They will win more cups with both of them. There's no need in getting rid of them. Getting rid of one of them isn't the answer to our problems.

X-Terminator
04-15-2012, 08:41 PM
Yeah, like they were "weaker" a month ago, before Sid came back.

If the Steelers trade for Aaron Rodgers tomorrow and don't give up Big Ben in doing so, they have more talent but they're not a better team.

I know it worked 3 years ago. But both were younger then and that's just the dynamics of the situation as it was.

But it's different now. Both are stars. Arguably the two best players in the world. And they know it. They play the same position, the same way. It no longer works. And it wont going forward. The Pens will not win or even get to another Cup until they decide which Super star to build around.

Uh, yeah they were weaker then. Come on, the Pens with both Crosby and Malkin are much stronger, all things considered, than with just one of them. If we're going to use that logic, then why not trade both of them, since they played most of last season without them and still made the playoffs with a high seed and did better in their first-round series.

What happened with this team is what often happens when you get a superstar player back late in the season. The chemistry that they'd worked so hard all season to build got disrupted, and players stopped doing what got them to where they were. That, and the Flyers simply have their number this season.

It is ridiculous to even consider trading one of them, and if the Pens were to do so, it would be a total knee-jerk reaction that would cause a PR disaster of epic proportions.

zulater
04-15-2012, 08:41 PM
Since both are in their younger twenties, age isn't an issue. If anything, they have more experience and knowledge of the sport and of their bodies. They will win more cups with both of them. There's no need in getting rid of them. Getting rid of one of them isn't the answer to our problems.

Age isn't an issue, as in either is breaking down or past their prime. But age is an issue as both are at their physical peak, and both most likely believe themselves to be the best in the game at this particular time. And unfortunately they both play the same position in virtually the same way.

Again I promise you Mario would have never have become the player he became if he had been stuck behind Gretzky.

There's no conscientious effort to dog it on Malkin's part when Sid is on the ice. But he's not the same player regardless.

It's just the way it is.

One needs to go. They'll be better, and so will the Penguins if they make the right trade.

salamander
04-15-2012, 08:46 PM
Come on now, the Pens are just creating a diversion to help set up a run to the Calder Cup for the Baby Pens. Pittsburgh decided that it was finally time for Wilkes-Barre/Scranton to win the AHL championship and bring a championship of a different kind to the organization.

Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood. :chuckle:

X-Terminator
04-15-2012, 08:46 PM
OK, since you're so eager to part with one of them, what trade would you make that would give the Pens any kind of value in return?

steelerdude15
04-15-2012, 08:46 PM
Age isn't an issue, as in either is breaking down or past their prime. But age is an issue as both are at their physical peak, and both most likely believe themselves to be the best in the game at this particular time. And unfortunately they both play the same position in virtually the same way.

Again I promise you Mario would have never have become the player he became if he had been stuck behind Gretzky.

There's no conscientious effort to dog it on Malkin's part when Sid is on the ice. But he's not the same player regardless.

It's just the way it is.

One needs to go. They'll be better, and so will the Penguins if they make the right trade.

Well we can debate about it all we way, but it's not going to happen.

zulater
04-15-2012, 08:46 PM
Uh, yeah they were weaker then. Come on, the Pens with both Crosby and Malkin are much stronger, all things considered, than with just one of them. If we're going to use that logic, then why not trade both of them, since they played most of last season without them and still made the playoffs with a high seed and did better in their first-round series.

What happened with this team is what often happens when you get a superstar player back late in the season. The chemistry that they'd worked so hard all season to build got disrupted, and players stopped doing what got them to where they were. That, and the Flyers simply have their number this season.

It is ridiculous to even consider trading one of them, and if the Pens were to do so, it would be a total knee-jerk reaction that would cause a PR disaster of epic proportions.

I couldn't care less about the p.r aspect of it, and I predict neither will the Penguins.

Mario was a Super star. He knows that he never would have been as great as he was if he had come up with the Oilers in the Gretzky era.

There's probably a trade out there that will make Malkin realize his full potential and will also bring back in return the pieces necessary to make the Penguins a team that will compete for multiple Cups in the immediate future.

steelerdude15
04-15-2012, 08:51 PM
I couldn't care less about the p.r aspect of it, and I predict neither will the Penguins.

Mario was a Super star. He knows that he never would have been as great as he was if he had come up with the Oilers in the Gretzky era.

There's probably a trade out there that will make Malkin realize his full potential and will also bring back in return the pieces necessary to make the Penguins a team that will compete for multiple Cups in the immediate future.

Yet, we had Jagr for so many years with Mario and we saw it worked out with two cups.

Count Steeler
04-15-2012, 08:51 PM
I know one desperate GM who would probably trade their best defenseman and probably at 1 first rounder at the very least for Crosby or Malkin.

Crosby in the Blue and White would certainly give Burke another couple of years to screw up our team. Burke gave up 2 firsts and a second to the Bruins for Kessel. (Now you know why the Bruins are going to be Stanley Cup contenders for the next few years, while the Leafs golf in March)

You could probably get Luke Schen in a package for Crosby.

steelerdude15
04-15-2012, 08:53 PM
I know one desperate GM who would probably trade their best defenseman and probably at 1 first rounder at the very least for Crosby or Malkin.

Crosby in the Blue and White would certainly give Burke another couple of years to screw up our team. Burke gave up 2 firsts and a second to the Bruins for Kessel. (Now you know why the Bruins are going to be Stanley Cup contenders for the next few years, while the Leafs golf in March)

You could probably get Luke Schen in a package for Crosby.

Sorry Count, but it won't happen.

zulater
04-15-2012, 08:54 PM
OK, since you're so eager to part with one of them, what trade would you make that would give the Pens any kind of value in return?

I'm not an NHL GM, nor do I pretend to be. So I wont suggest a trade here.

I know human nature though, and I have common sense. To me there's going to be a trade out there that will make the Penguins a better team going forward.

Sooner or later if we keep having early exits from the playoffs ( and why wouldn't we given the current make up of the team, particularly relative to the younger more talented Flyers?) , Malkin will become malcontent and we'll end up trading him away for beads and trinkets like we did for the "dying alive" Jagr in another year of so. .

It's always better to trade away a great player a year too early than a year too late. If the value can be had to address areas of greater need, the time to act will be immediate.

X-Terminator
04-15-2012, 08:57 PM
I know one desperate GM who would probably trade their best defenseman and probably at 1 first rounder at the very least for Crosby or Malkin.

Crosby in the Blue and White would certainly give Burke another couple of years to screw up our team. Burke gave up 2 firsts and a second to the Bruins for Kessel. (Now you know why the Bruins are going to be Stanley Cup contenders for the next few years, while the Leafs golf in March)

You could probably get Luke Schen in a package for Crosby.

If the Pens made that kind of deal, Ray Shero should be unemployed the very next second. The only way Crosby gets dealt to the Leafs is if they give up Schenn, Phaneuf and Kessel, and even that wouldn't be enough.

Since we're talking about trading one of them, though, there is one deal I would consider, and that is trading Malkin to the Predators for Shea Weber, Patric Hornqvist and a first-round pick.

zulater
04-15-2012, 08:57 PM
Yet, we had Jagr for so many years with Mario and we saw it worked out with two cups.

Jagr wasn't an established star when the Pens won those Cups. Not even close.

Count Steeler
04-15-2012, 08:57 PM
On second thought, why would I want to doom Crosby's career. I would love to see him win another Cup. Not going to happen in my lifetime in Toronto.

steelerdude15
04-15-2012, 09:00 PM
Jagr wasn't an established star when the Pens won those Cups. Not even close.

They still coexisted for some time when both we're superstars.

Count Steeler
04-15-2012, 09:09 PM
I think the conclusion here is that Bylsma's days are over in Pittsburgh. The inability to have the 2 best players in the world coexist on your roster should be cause for dismissal. Not looking for a Stanley Cup every year, but the way the Penguins have played since the return of Crosby, and especially the display of "hockey" in this series against the Flyers is inexcusable.

Credit to Johnson and Bowman for being able to pull it together with Super Mario and Jagr.

zulater
04-15-2012, 09:12 PM
They still coexisted for some time when both we're superstars.

And won nothing. They never even advanced to another Cup Final when both were in their prime together. Jagr had a great rookie and sophomore season, but he wasn't first team all star or even close yet. His game hadn't advanced to the point that he thought of it as his team when the Pens won those Cups. Ironically enough when Mario came back in 2001 Jagr started to recede.

That's not to say Malkin is Jagr. Malkin has been a stand up guy, never has he said a word that would indicate any resentment towards Sid. On a conscientious level I don't think there is. But somewhere down below, not even necessarily deeply submerged, he's waiting to break out and show Russia and the world that he's the worlds greatest player. That's why I've been saying all through the season that the Pens would have been better off if Crosby waited until next fall to come back. As great as he is, I feared that his addition would prove to be Malkin's undoing, and I'm afraid I'm being proven right.

X-Terminator
04-15-2012, 09:13 PM
They still coexisted for some time when both we're superstars.

But they never won another Cup together, and Jagr was ultimately shipped out of town. The difference obviously is that both Malkin and Crosby were both superstars when they won the Cup in 09. There's no reason why they can't win another one together if they make the necessary changes. I would trade Staal before I traded either of them. Staal would almost certainly get them a big package in return. Being 23 and not yet in his prime, there would be a lot of teams lining up to offer the Pens the Sun, Moon and stars for him.

steelerdude15
04-15-2012, 09:37 PM
But they never won another Cup together, and Jagr was ultimately shipped out of town. The difference obviously is that both Malkin and Crosby were both superstars when they won the Cup in 09. There's no reason why they can't win another one together if they make the necessary changes. I would trade Staal before I traded either of them. Staal would almost certainly get them a big package in return. Being 23 and not yet in his prime, there would be a lot of teams lining up to offer the Pens the Sun, Moon and stars for him.

Yes this is true. I just think that with two superstars on this team, they can win more cups.

steelpride12
04-15-2012, 09:45 PM
I don't see the need for such redicoulous decision making because of one playoff series. Yes we blew it. We have the strongest and healthies team possible now. Crosby came back and the chemistry went to hell, the defense lacked, and Fluery is having a rough slump. Fire Byslma?! LOL no comment. The team will work their ass off in the off season, regain their chemistry, homefully patch the D and we will be back. Gotta have confidence. I'll still watch Wednesdays game because I don't give up ont he Pens no matter how unlikely it is they can do anything. Yes it's over I believe it, but that's why they play and I will surely be right behind them.

steeldevil
04-15-2012, 10:14 PM
Coming from someone who isnt a huge hockey or Pens fan at all, this is eerily similar to when Kyrie Irving from Duke (Best player in the country as a FRESHMAN) was hurt the whole year and came back for the NCAA tournament. Totally messed up the chemistry of the team....

steelerdude15
04-16-2012, 12:44 AM
Coming from someone who isnt a huge hockey or Pens fan at all, this is eerily similar to when Kyrie Irving from Duke (Best player in the country as a FRESHMAN) was hurt the whole year and came back for the NCAA tournament. Totally messed up the chemistry of the team.... Sometimes it happens and that could be one of the contributing factors to the meltdown that's occurred. I just hope health won't be a negative factor next season.

The WH
04-16-2012, 02:06 AM
Coming from someone who isnt a huge hockey or Pens fan at all, this is eerily similar to when Kyrie Irving from Duke (Best player in the country as a FRESHMAN) was hurt the whole year and came back for the NCAA tournament. Totally messed up the chemistry of the team.... this....maybe.

zulater
04-16-2012, 05:32 AM
I hope Mario goes in and tears that team a new asshole today. I hold no illusions that the Pens can win game 4. But regardless they need to display a little class and composure and let the results take care of themselves. If I was Mario I'd put a no retaliatory penalty edict out! The Pens are acting like punks. I'm really disgusted by the way they've comported themselves as much as by the quality of their play, or lack thereof. The Pens embarrassed themselves and their city in game 3. That can't happen again. If they lose (which of course they will) lose with some class.

zulater
04-16-2012, 05:40 AM
Madden: Pens abandoned system, then hope (http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local_sports/madden-pens-abandoned-system-then-hope/article_cbfec2cb-b52b-5b6e-a9ac-6dfd3a893df9.html)

When the Penguins deal with injuries, they're a good hockey team. They master fundamentals, stick to their system.
But when all their vast talent is at their disposal, the Penguins stink. They play with a sense of entitlement, like glory is their birthright. No humility. When their rattle is snatched away, the Penguins react like any baby: They scream or they pout.
Say what you might about blowing a 3-1 series lead to Tampa Bay in last year's first round, at least the Penguins never abandoned their framework. Their structure was sound. With Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin out and their power play dysfunctional as ever, the Penguins just ran out of goals.
That was disappointing, but noble.
There's nothing noble about what's going on now.
The Penguins are not only being slaughtered by Philadelphia, they're stooping to embarrassing levels of mayhem. The Flyers aren't innocent, but they're not instigators. Not this time.

skip ahead in the article................................





But the problems go beyond goaltending. They can be traced back to March 15, the day Crosby returned to the lineup.
At that point, the Penguins became a flying circus. The Penguins have since averaged 4.5 goals per game, but have gone just 9-8.
Crosby's return was a catalyst for the negative. But don't blame Crosby. No player has a bigger commitment to two-way hockey than the Penguins' captain. Crosby hasn't been great in this series, but he scored the first goal in Games 1 and 2. He gave the Penguins a chance.
When Crosby returned, however, it seemed to give the Penguins a feeling that success was inevitable. They got intoxicated by whiffing high octane. Give up a goal? No problem. Go score two. Give up four goals? No problem. Go score five.



Madden's an ass, but he knows hockey, and he hit the nail on the head with today's column. Worth reading in it's entirety if you've got the time to click the link.

steelerdude15
04-16-2012, 07:35 AM
Madden: Pens abandoned system, then hope (http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local_sports/madden-pens-abandoned-system-then-hope/article_cbfec2cb-b52b-5b6e-a9ac-6dfd3a893df9.html)

When the Penguins deal with injuries, they're a good hockey team. They master fundamentals, stick to their system.
But when all their vast talent is at their disposal, the Penguins stink. They play with a sense of entitlement, like glory is their birthright. No humility. When their rattle is snatched away, the Penguins react like any baby: They scream or they pout.
Say what you might about blowing a 3-1 series lead to Tampa Bay in last year's first round, at least the Penguins never abandoned their framework. Their structure was sound. With Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin out and their power play dysfunctional as ever, the Penguins just ran out of goals.
That was disappointing, but noble.
There's nothing noble about what's going on now.
The Penguins are not only being slaughtered by Philadelphia, they're stooping to embarrassing levels of mayhem. The Flyers aren't innocent, but they're not instigators. Not this time.

skip ahead in the article................................





But the problems go beyond goaltending. They can be traced back to March 15, the day Crosby returned to the lineup.
At that point, the Penguins became a flying circus. The Penguins have since averaged 4.5 goals per game, but have gone just 9-8.
Crosby's return was a catalyst for the negative. But don't blame Crosby. No player has a bigger commitment to two-way hockey than the Penguins' captain. Crosby hasn't been great in this series, but he scored the first goal in Games 1 and 2. He gave the Penguins a chance.
When Crosby returned, however, it seemed to give the Penguins a feeling that success was inevitable. They got intoxicated by whiffing high octane. Give up a goal? No problem. Go score two. Give up four goals? No problem. Go score five.



Madden's an ass, but he knows hockey, and he hit the nail on the head with today's column. Worth reading in it's entirety if you've got the time to click the link. I'm not reading that idiot's article, but it does seem that things have fallen since he's come back.

X-Terminator
04-16-2012, 07:36 AM
I don't like giving that fat asstard one iota of credit for anything, but he said what I've been saying since they lost to the Isles. Ever since Crosby came back, the team has been all about offense and doesn't give a damn about defense or simply making the smart play. I won't get on Fleury too much - no goaltender in the world would be able to put up good numbers with all of the point-blank chances, odd-man rushes and breakaways he has had to face in the past 3 weeks. Sadly, I could see this collapse coming a mile away. Next season, there has to be a renewed commitment to the system and responsible defensive play, otherwise it's just going to be more of the same. They need to realize that playing sound defense only helps their offense, that there's nothing wrong with winning a game 3-2. Can you imagine their transition game if they were more defensively sound? How many goals could they score as a result? It would be scary. They just need to realize and understand that, and get rid of the hubris and sense of entitlement that they have developed.

The WH
04-16-2012, 09:50 AM
Hate on Madden all you want. The guys knows Hockey.

steelerdude15
04-16-2012, 10:48 AM
Hate on Madden all you want. The guys knows Hockey.

He may know hockey, but he's really obnoxious and makes the rest of us look bad.

steelerdude15
04-16-2012, 11:19 AM
Penguins face hearings for Sunday's actions

Pittsburgh forward James Neal will have hearings on Tuesday with the Department of Player Safety for two separate incidents in Sunday's Game 3 of the Eastern Conference Quarterfinals series against the Philadelphia Flyers.

Also, Pittsburgh forward Arron Asham has been offered an in-person hearing Tuesday morning for his match penalty for cross-checking Brayden Schenn at 14:15 of the first period. Asham received a match penalty on the hit.

Neal's hearings focus on the hit against Sean Couturier in the third period, as well as the charging penalty he received for a hit on Claude Giroux later in the period. Neal was not penalized on the Couturier hit.

Read More: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=628071

Well, these two are in trouble. Gotta figure it was going to happen and quite honestly, they both deserve to be suspended.

steelerdude15
04-16-2012, 11:27 AM
Niskanen's workload grows after ejection

Matt Niskanen didn't know until Sunday that he would be dressing for Game 3 of the Penguins' first-round playoff series against the Philadelphia Flyers.

And he surely had no idea that he would be logging 23 minutes, 55 seconds of ice time in what became an 8-4 loss to the Flyers.

But he, along with almost everyone else on the defense, had to take on some extra responsibilities after Kris Letang was ejected from the game for fighting Kimmo Timonen of Philadelphia at 12:02 of the opening period, while another fight already was in progress.

Read More: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/penguins/niskanens-workload-grows-after-ejection-631539/

Also from the article:
Penguins center Craig Adams was tossed from the game after picking up an instigator minor at 15:18 of the third period.

Because that happened in the final five minutes of the game, Adams is automatically suspended for one game, unless the league overturns that penalty, which it can do after a review.

Boy, this team really screwed themselves.

steelpride12
04-16-2012, 01:43 PM
The Pens did the one thing that would get them into trouble this series and that was lose focus on the game ahead and be more occupied with fighting and getting revenge. The Cryers did a great job sucking them into scrums and the Pens lost all composure for the game. They have too much skill and talent to be getting into that garbage and now they are down 3-0 in the series and have hearings.

X-Terminator
04-16-2012, 02:23 PM
Asham getting an in-person hearing = 5 games minimum. Neal likely gets a total of 3 games for both incidents. Nice job, guys.

The implosion is complete.

zulater
04-16-2012, 06:11 PM
The Pens did the one thing that would get them into trouble this series and that was lose focus on the game ahead and be more occupied with fighting and getting revenge. The Cryers did a great job sucking them into scrums and the Pens lost all composure for the game. They have too much skill and talent to be getting into that garbage and now they are down 3-0 in the series and have hearings.

How do you think Mario feels about this?

The way this team came completely unhinged and fell into every Flyer trap is the reason I think Blysma's job is in jeopardy.

The Pens didn't just lose this series, they embarrassed themselves in every conceivable way while doing so. I don't see how the coach can't come into question for the teams complete lack of discipline.

I think the Pens will need to take this series to 6 games to insure Blysma's future with the team.

Good luck with that.

X-Terminator
04-16-2012, 08:21 PM
How do you think Mario feels about this?

The way this team came completely unhinged and fell into every Flyer trap is the reason I think Blysma's job is in jeopardy.

The Pens didn't just lose this series, they embarrassed themselves in every conceivable way while doing so. I don't see how the coach can't come into question for the teams complete lack of discipline.

I think the Pens will need to take this series to 6 games to insure Blysma's future with the team.

Good luck with that.

I don't think Bylsma's job is in jeopardy. Yet. Mario, as pissed off as he is (he was seen after the game yesterday shaking his head in disgust, according to the Trib's Dejan Kovacevic), will give him a chance to right the ship and prove his worth. I doubt they will want to pay 2 head coaches over the next 2 seasons. If the team falters next season and/or doesn't at least make it to the Conference Final, then he will be fired. Everyone associated with the actual team should be embarrassed, and not just because of yesterday, which admittedly I saw none of.

Count Steeler
04-17-2012, 05:03 AM
I don't think Bylsma's job is in jeopardy. Yet. Mario, as pissed off as he is (he was seen after the game yesterday shaking his head in disgust, according to the Trib's Dejan Kovacevic), will give him a chance to right the ship and prove his worth. I doubt they will want to pay 2 head coaches over the next 2 seasons. If the team falters next season and/or doesn't at least make it to the Conference Final, then he will be fired. Everyone associated with the actual team should be embarrassed, and not just because of yesterday, which admittedly I saw none of.

I would say the next game will seal Bylsma's fate. I expect the Pens to come out, play hard and possibly win the next game or 2. If it is another shit show like Sunday's game and there is a lack of composure on the ice again, I think it would be a mistake to keep him. However, having said that, it is not what I expect to happen. The Pens will play their best game of the series thus far.

zulater
04-17-2012, 05:22 AM
Now, after three consecutive losses to the Philadelphia Flyers in the first round, the Penguins might not win a game in these playoffs. Coach Dan Bylsma described the team's mood Monday as being "a little bit of shock and disbelief, disappointment." Unless it finds a way to win the next four games to survive and advance to Round 2, it will be remembered as the most underachieving team in franchise history.

Maybe the most underachieving team in NHL history, actually.

That's a heavy load to carry into Game 4 Wednesday night at Wells Fargo Center.

"We have to look at it like we have to win one game, four times," defenseman Brooks Orpik said. "We can't look at it like we have to win four games in a row."

Good luck with that.

It's hard to come up with another really good team in any sport that crumbled the way these Penguins are. Crosby made his biggest news in Game 3 Sunday by childishly pushing away Flyers winger Jakub Voracek's glove as he tried to pick it up off the ice and then by fighting Flyers star Claude Giroux in what Bylsma called an attempt to "spark our team ... It was more calculated than losing emotional control." Letang was thrown out of Game 3 for fighting Flyers defenseman Kimmo Timonen, fully realizing he's instrumental to his team's success. Malkin has been a no-show with one even-strength point in the three games. Fleury has been awful, giving up 17 goals -- the most in NHL history after the first three games of a series -- and he didn't even play the third period Sunday after being pulled for backup Brent Johnson. The defense in front of Fleury has been atrocious. What should be a dynamic power play has been terrible, allowing three short-handed goals. The penalty-kill, among the NHL's best all season, has been worse, giving up six goals in 10 short-handed situations.

Am I forgetting anything?

Of course, I am.

Bylsma has had no answers for anything other than to make the daring decision to take Crosby off the first power-play unit for Game 2 and the start of Game 3. When you start messing with the best player in the world like that, you had better be right. Bylsma hasn't been so far. That's the type of failed strategy that could shorten his stay as Penguins coach.

Bylsma's players haven't done him any favors with their pathetic play, but they really sabotaged him by losing their cool in Game 3. Letang's selfish fight might have been the start of it, but there was so much more, so much worse. Arron Asham took a cheap cross-check on the Flyers' Brayden Schenn, punched him in the head when he was down and was thrown out of the game. Later, James Neal took dirty runs at the Flyers' Sean Couturier and Giroux in the same shift. Asham and Neal are looking at suspensions for Game 4. Craig Adams already is out of that game because he instigated a fight with the Flyers' Scott Hartnell in the final five minutes. That's as it should be. Asham and Neal should be suspended, as well. They embarrassed themselves and the Penguins organization.

Sadly, Bylsma tried to justify the cheap shots Monday by saying "our players desperately want to win and are desperately playing. The emotion boils over in a situation like that. They're competitors." He went on to insinuate that any team would react the same way in that spot.

Is that weak or what?

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/pirates/penguins-crumbling-of-virtual-locks-would-be-legendary-631741/

Count Steeler
04-17-2012, 05:31 AM
Sadly, Bylsma tried to justify the cheap shots Monday by saying "our players desperately want to win and are desperately playing. The emotion boils over in a situation like that. They're competitors." He went on to insinuate that any team would react the same way in that spot.



When I first read this, I thought Bylsma doesn't get it. However, looking at the terminology closer, I don't trust this reporter. "He went on to insinuate" That phrase bothers me and leaves too much room for interpretation. The proof will be on the ice in the next game.

X-Terminator
04-17-2012, 07:16 AM
When I first read this, I thought Bylsma doesn't get it. However, looking at the terminology closer, I don't trust this reporter. "He went on to insinuate" That phrase bothers me and leaves too much room for interpretation. The proof will be on the ice in the next game.

That's classic Ron Kook, actually. It's why I take nothing he says seriously. Personally, I think the whole article is overblown, which again is vintage Kook. He and Larry Fine (Bob Smizik) should have retired a long time ago.

zulater
04-17-2012, 11:27 AM
VOORHEES, N.J. — Every once in a while in sports, a process is dealt a fatal blow. In football, an offense will attack a defense`s weakness 100 snaps in a row until it`s addressed. In baseball, a pitcher will attack a hitter`s hole until it`s closed.

The Penguins` system was blown up, possibly for good, on the evening of March 24 in Ottawa. The Penguins had won 13 of the previous 14 games and allowed only 25 goals in that span, but the Senators blew them away, 8-4.

Score sound familiar?

Turned out it wasn`t an accident. Ottawa`s staff had its players execute what is called a stretch pass. That`s a long breakout in which one forward is positioned by the attacking blue line, behind the defense. It`s aimed at separating an opponent`s defense away from its forwards, in essence stretching the neutral zone.

It`s no stretch to suggest it works. The following week, the New York Islanders mimicked it perfectly and pulled off matching 5-3 victories. Now that a far more talented team in the Flyers is doing it, the results are even more stark.

Coach Dan Bylsma`s system has long been predicated on the Penguins moving as a pack in heavy pursuit of the puck. It`s about possession. The defensemen help out in the attacking zone, and the forwards help on defense with back pressure. It`s all one unit.

Until it isn`t.

The stretch pass has forced the Penguins` defensemen to back off so far that not only are they unable to pinch into the offensive zone, but they`ve also — visibly, awfully — lost confidence all over the rink.

Bylsma has kept a center back at times, but that`s a Band-Aid. The five skaters still aren`t working in a pack.

This won`t have an easy fix.



Read more: Insider: Stretch way back to find fatal flaw - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_791607.html#ixzz1sJdXMT8o

X-Terminator
04-17-2012, 11:53 AM
I read that one earlier, and he's right. Teams have figured out how to beat Bylsma's system, and Bylsma has no answer for it. It's not only the system's fatal flaw, it's also Bylsma's fatal flaw for failing to properly adjust to it. He's going to have to make changes to his system so that the team is still aggressive, but does not leave themselves open to the stretch pass. If that means Kris Letang has to think about defense first rather than all offense, all the time, then so be it. Now we get to see what Bylsma is really made of.

steelerdude15
04-17-2012, 12:13 PM
I read that one earlier, and he's right. Teams have figured out how to beat Bylsma's system, and Bylsma has no answer for it. It's not only the system's fatal flaw, it's also Bylsma's fatal flaw for failing to properly adjust to it. He's going to have to make changes to his system so that the team is still aggressive, but does not leave themselves open to the stretch pass. If that means Kris Letang has to think about defense first rather than all offense, all the time, then so be it. Now we get to see what Bylsma is really made of.
Adjustments do need to be made every once in a while. The same system while eventually be figured out by all teams and to keep that system running, it needs to be tweaked.

zulater
04-17-2012, 02:12 PM
Adjustments do need to be made every once in a while. The same system while eventually be figured out by all teams and to keep that system running, it needs to be tweaked.

http://www.1059thex.com/main.html

Talking about it right now on Madden's show.

steelerdude15
04-17-2012, 06:29 PM
Welp, no suspension news for Neal or Asham.

SCSTILLER
04-17-2012, 07:59 PM
Welp, no suspension news for Neal or Asham.

I feel both of them will be suspended, but this is BS from the league. It makes a great difference on how the Penguins will be preparing for game four if Neal is suspended or not. By dragging their feet the league is making it harder for the Pens to prepare for this do or die game four.

steelerdude15
04-17-2012, 08:11 PM
I feel both of them will be suspended, but this is BS from the league. It makes a great difference on how the Penguins will be preparing for game four if Neal is suspended or not. By dragging their feet the league is making it harder for the Pens to prepare for this do or die game four.

BS? Are you kidding me? Asham punches someone in the head when they're down and Neal hit someone by leaving his feet and then hits someone when they're thirty feet away from the puck? They deserve to be punished and shouldn't be allowed to play in this series.

X-Terminator
04-17-2012, 08:14 PM
BS? Are you kidding me? Asham punches someone in the head when they're down and Neal hit someone by leaving his feet and then hits someone when they're thirty feet away from the puck? They deserve to be punished and shouldn't be allowed to play in this series.

Pretty sure he meant it's BS that the league is taking its time handing out a ruling. Well, they've been a tad busy today with 2 hearings for Neal and one for Nicklas Backstrom, along with Asham's.

steelerdude15
04-17-2012, 08:15 PM
Pretty sure he meant it's BS that the league is taking its time handing out a ruling. Well, they've been a tad busy today with 2 hearings for Neal and one for Nicklas Backstrom, along with Asham's.

O well if it was meant like that I'm sorry SC! I've been wondering whats taking so long...

vader29
04-17-2012, 11:16 PM
Asham gets a 4 game suspension and Neal only 1 game.

venom
04-18-2012, 06:06 AM
Hey guys , I know you are down 0-3 but you can come back- you never know . Here is a video made by a Steelers fan about the Pens vs Flyers series that will put a smile on your face ( hopefully )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuv36SNZApU&feature=player_embedded#!

vader29
04-18-2012, 10:16 AM
Would we ever see something like this in the Pittsburgh papers if the roles were reversed?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/541152_10150657085265496_188700545495_9702177_1100 481569_n.jpg

steelersfanman92
04-18-2012, 10:24 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/541152_10150657085265496_188700545495_9702177_1100 481569_n.jpg

I don't think anyone has ever accused a typical Philly fan of being classy so I really am not surprised.

zulater
04-18-2012, 10:25 AM
Asham gets a 4 game suspension and Neal only 1 game.

"Only one game" in this case quite likely means the season. He deserved it though, no one's fault but his own.

zulater
04-18-2012, 10:28 AM
Would we ever see something like this in the Pittsburgh papers if the roles were reversed?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/541152_10150657085265496_188700545495_9702177_1100 481569_n.jpg

If by some miracle the Penguins come back and make a series of it, I'll bet they'll be some Flyer players that would be tempted to shove that picture straight up the editors ass who green lighted that back page.

No reason to poke the sleeping bear. The Pens might lose tonight, but I got a feeling Sid will take his game to it's highest level yet.

steelpride12
04-18-2012, 10:36 AM
Would we ever see something like this in the Pittsburgh papers if the roles were reversed?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/541152_10150657085265496_188700545495_9702177_1100 481569_n.jpg
All I have to say is go ahead Philly light a fire under our asses. Sure it's bleak and we will surely lose this series, but I have to have a little confidence. I mean It just seems fitting that with losing 3 players to suspension and all the hype and expectedness for Philly to win, that a Pens win tonight could not only turn this series around, but give us the edge we need. It doesn't hurt losing those players, I mean the chemistry was already fucked, this could play to our advantage.

Call me crazy, but I think the Pens still have some fight left in them, Byslma I believe will get them amped for this one, He has no choice.

X-Terminator
04-18-2012, 04:18 PM
Typical, hypocritical Philly fans. If the roles were reversed and the Flyers did what the Pens did in game 3, it would have been called "message sending" and they would be lauded as heroes. So I take that cover with a grain of salt.

The WH
04-18-2012, 04:22 PM
I think I am going to stay up for the first period of this game. See you guys at 1am.

The WH
04-18-2012, 05:46 PM
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...rce=rss&feed=8 (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/s_791850.html?source=rss&feed=8)

see, now he is only 97% dead to me.

But then they have Hartnell, one of the dirtiest players in Hockey, giving his sage like advice. bullshit.

steelerdude15
04-18-2012, 07:20 PM
Tonight might be the end, but lets go Pens!

salamander
04-18-2012, 07:29 PM
Defense? Goaltending? I forget what that looks like.

The WH
04-18-2012, 07:29 PM
I should not have stayed up to watch the first period. Now I can't think about going to sleep.

The WH
04-18-2012, 07:31 PM
You let this game go back to Pittsburgh in desperation mode, you might be lookin' at a game 6