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polamalubeast
04-06-2012, 01:29 PM
Our ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter put down his BlackBerry for a few minutes to address the Steelers' draft in his latest mailbag . This is what Schefter had to say when asked about Pittsburgh's priority in the draft:

This draft is so deep at defensive tackle that it's easy to see the Steelers looking in that direction on draft day. The one thing about Pittsburgh's defense is that it's aging, quickly -- the Steelers need an infusion of youth and talent. Then again, they also could use some reinforcements to help protect Ben Roethlisberger. But the needs along the defensive line would seem to be the most pressing and if there's a bona fide prospect available, Pittsburgh could pounce on him.

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http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/45440/schefter-steelers-could-pounce-on-dt?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

SteelerFanInStl
04-06-2012, 02:30 PM
The one thing about Pittsburgh's defense is that it's aging, quickly -- the Steelers need an infusion of youth and talent.

Guess he didn't notice that Farrior, Smith and Hoke are all now gone.

Devilsdancefloor
04-06-2012, 02:44 PM
yeah hood and heywrd are old feckers and ready to retire. some vet backups would be nice, but really does the steelers D is old always going to be a sticking point for these "experts"?

sgtrobo
04-08-2012, 04:21 PM
i could see us going "DT", as in "NT", but I don't see any 1st round NTs, so unless we trade back into the 2nd for Ta'amu or Thompson, or grab Chapman later (tough to say where he falls due to injury), I just don't see it happening

Galax Steeler
04-08-2012, 05:14 PM
Guess he didn't notice that Farrior, Smith and Hoke are all now gone.

He did mention Hoke but not Farrior or Smith

st33lersguy
04-08-2012, 05:29 PM
They need to come away with a NT by the end of day 2. NT is a very important part of the 3-4 and Casey Hampton could be retiring next year. They have waited far too long to address this issue and Hoke's retirement has made it an even bigger issue.

BigNastyDefense
04-08-2012, 09:25 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing a NT in 3rd round if possible, or trading back into the second round to get Ta'amu (Washington Huskies). Or if there isn't an offensive lineman worth taking at our pick in the second round, but a NT that is worth it, then go defense again (if we take Hightower in the first, which I think we will).

steelreserve
04-09-2012, 12:27 PM
Just wondering: What happened to that guy from Memphis, Poe? Is he now being projected too high for us, or was he too fat and now nobody's interested? Sorry, but I have a hard time keeping up with every millisecond of how fast everyone ran at the combine and such.

LLT
04-09-2012, 12:51 PM
Just wondering: What happened to that guy from Memphis, Poe? Is he now being projected too high for us, or was he too fat and now nobody's interested? Sorry, but I have a hard time keeping up with every millisecond of how fast everyone ran at the combine and such.


Poe blew the doors off the combine workout....projected to go in the top 20...possibly in the top 15.

steelreserve
04-09-2012, 12:55 PM
Poe blew the doors off the combine workout....projected to go in the top 20...possibly in the top 15.

Bugger. Kind of the reverse Shaun Cody performance, it seems. We could use a guy like that, but I doubt we reach that high unless we get lucky.

TMC
04-09-2012, 01:23 PM
Just wondering: What happened to that guy from Memphis, Poe? Is he now being projected too high for us, or was he too fat and now nobody's interested? Sorry, but I have a hard time keeping up with every millisecond of how fast everyone ran at the combine and such.

It is always very difficult to predict where a guy will fall, but Poe garnered a ton of attention from draftniks and the like after the combine. I doubt teams actually got stupid over him as many who studied these guys already knew what he was. It was pretty common knowledge he had a 500 pound bench and 700 pound squat. He is considered an exceptionally hard worker in the weight room. Speed was not really an issue either since he ran a 5.00 flat as a freshman in college where he was just over 300 pounds. He also ran a 5.20-5.30 as a junior, depending on who you believe. He worked at Athlete's Performance and it should be expected he betters that time, most shave .1 or more off their junior times.

What few people reading about the draft did was go back to his film or even look at his film. That film has to be put into context. He played on a bad defense with a coaching staff that has since been fired. He also had his DL coach come out and state he was not used properly. He faced a lot of teams that run schemes used to help their offensive lines. To explain, years ago the Veer offense was very popular for teams that lacked offensive lines. The options and ability to hit in several places with the run would freeze the defensive players and it allowed the backs to quick hit the gaps. The option, spread, run and shoot, and many more utilize that mindset. We cannot block because we lack linemen, so the goal is to get the ball out quick or avoid the DL.

That happened with Memphis. Arkansas State used quick hitters. They moved the QB. They ran off tackle. Memphis started moving Poe around in that game but Memphis lacked talent and was not coached well. Heck, after 2-3 weeks last season, their own head coach came out and complained about the defense. The sad part was, the offense did not help them either. It is not difficult to shy away from one guy. When I watched Poe, I looked for the things Poe did, not what the offense was doing or the rest of the team did. How well does he use his hands? Does he get turned often? Does he get blown backwards? How does he handle the double teams? Does he ever split the doubles? Is he a gap shooter? Does he ever play to that power? With a guy like Poe on such a bad team, you really cannot focus on anything but him. Numbers don't matter. Defensive rank does not matter. All that is out the window because it muddies the equation. What it boils down to with me, he has the power, quickness, and size to be an excellent player in the NFL. He does not use his hands well. In fact, he does not present great technique in a ton of areas. He has to be coached up. He is raw. So, once I accept how raw he is, I have to begin to ask, does he have the physical attributes? Is he a hard worker that can be coached? Does he quit? How much effort? And, the planet theory comes into play. I think that guys with his size and blend of abilities do not come around often. You see, at best, one every other draft. So, that alone places him very high. He shows power in games, not always, but enough to make me think he can be coached. He bends well, redirects. Plays hard. Does not quit. Lots of intangibles. I think it takes him a year or two, but then you may have something special. As another guy I talk draft with said, his ceiling is stratospheric. You are not going to find a prospect with his potential. But, there is some bust potential as well. I see him from 18th-32nd.

As for others, I really like Chapman. I think if he was healthy, he goes easily in the 2nd. Another guy with poor numbers, but he did the dirty work for Alabama. With the talent on that defense and the ability of many of the players to run to the football, Chapman won't get many tackles. He anchors well. Does not get pushed around easily. Strong. Just nasty in the middle. He is almost the same size as Hampton when Hampton was drafted. Hampton was 6012-314 and Chapman is 6007-316. Hampton did 34 reps, Chapman did 29. I think Hampton is much more powerful than Chapman and plays to that strength, but I also think Chapman is a little more agile, a better pass rusher. Not a huge difference, but some. I think Chapman goes in the late 2nd through the 3rd, even with his knee injury.

Alameda Ta'amu-not as sold on him as others. He has had some good games, but he does some things that turn me off. When he chases down the line, he will give some ground to get to the edge so IF he makes the play, it is often 5 or more yards down the field. He will also allow himself to get turned inside and when he gives up his back to the blocker, he is much easier to root out of the inside. But, that can be coached up too, so he is similar to Poe in those areas. He has some technique issues that need to be cleaned up but again, you are getting into that area of only so many men on the planet that have that size and athletic ability. I just get something of an uneasy feeling with him. Something I cannot put my finger on.

Mike Martin-he is another 6012-306 pound DT that has the ability to anchor inside. The great upside about Martin is he can move and be a threat as a pass rusher. He does not get rooted out often because he is hard to lock onto. He fights and works and can be disruptive because of it. He reminds me a lot of Hoke, but is a better overall athlete.

Nicolas Jean-Baptiste-When I first watched NJB, I thought he was a big gap shooting pass rusher and had almost dismissed him, but I was watching his film around the senior bowl and in practices, he was anchoring better, so I went back to more film and he actually does pretty well against the run. He is the type of guy that even IF I land a Chapman, I may go back in the later rounds and double up with NJB.

There are a handful of others, but those are the top 5 off the top of my noggin.

7willBheaven
04-09-2012, 01:44 PM
Well reading that article was a waste of my time and didnt really offer any incite to anything whatsoever, haha.

one side only
04-10-2012, 05:24 PM
Hightower would be the best player available and would fill a position of need. If he's there, I can't imagine they'll draft anyone else. If Hightower is gone, I'd like to see them trade down.

vtw8lftr
04-10-2012, 10:11 PM
Cordy Glenn in the 1st if he's available, otherwise Hightower, then Chapman in the 2nd, Johnson in the 3rd if we don't grab Hightower...

I would love Glenn, Chapman, Johnson... but doubt Glenn falls that far... so Hightower, Chapman, Bergstrom would be a great second choice though I believe Hightower goes higher than most predict.

ShutDown24
04-11-2012, 12:41 AM
It is always very difficult to predict where a guy will fall, but Poe garnered a ton of attention from draftniks and the like after the combine. I doubt teams actually got stupid over him as many who studied these guys already knew what he was. It was pretty common knowledge he had a 500 pound bench and 700 pound squat. He is considered an exceptionally hard worker in the weight room. Speed was not really an issue either since he ran a 5.00 flat as a freshman in college where he was just over 300 pounds. He also ran a 5.20-5.30 as a junior, depending on who you believe. He worked at Athlete's Performance and it should be expected he betters that time, most shave .1 or more off their junior times.

What few people reading about the draft did was go back to his film or even look at his film. That film has to be put into context. He played on a bad defense with a coaching staff that has since been fired. He also had his DL coach come out and state he was not used properly. He faced a lot of teams that run schemes used to help their offensive lines. To explain, years ago the Veer offense was very popular for teams that lacked offensive lines. The options and ability to hit in several places with the run would freeze the defensive players and it allowed the backs to quick hit the gaps. The option, spread, run and shoot, and many more utilize that mindset. We cannot block because we lack linemen, so the goal is to get the ball out quick or avoid the DL.

That happened with Memphis. Arkansas State used quick hitters. They moved the QB. They ran off tackle. Memphis started moving Poe around in that game but Memphis lacked talent and was not coached well. Heck, after 2-3 weeks last season, their own head coach came out and complained about the defense. The sad part was, the offense did not help them either. It is not difficult to shy away from one guy. When I watched Poe, I looked for the things Poe did, not what the offense was doing or the rest of the team did. How well does he use his hands? Does he get turned often? Does he get blown backwards? How does he handle the double teams? Does he ever split the doubles? Is he a gap shooter? Does he ever play to that power? With a guy like Poe on such a bad team, you really cannot focus on anything but him. Numbers don't matter. Defensive rank does not matter. All that is out the window because it muddies the equation. What it boils down to with me, he has the power, quickness, and size to be an excellent player in the NFL. He does not use his hands well. In fact, he does not present great technique in a ton of areas. He has to be coached up. He is raw. So, once I accept how raw he is, I have to begin to ask, does he have the physical attributes? Is he a hard worker that can be coached? Does he quit? How much effort? And, the planet theory comes into play. I think that guys with his size and blend of abilities do not come around often. You see, at best, one every other draft. So, that alone places him very high. He shows power in games, not always, but enough to make me think he can be coached. He bends well, redirects. Plays hard. Does not quit. Lots of intangibles. I think it takes him a year or two, but then you may have something special. As another guy I talk draft with said, his ceiling is stratospheric. You are not going to find a prospect with his potential. But, there is some bust potential as well. I see him from 18th-32nd.

As for others, I really like Chapman. I think if he was healthy, he goes easily in the 2nd. Another guy with poor numbers, but he did the dirty work for Alabama. With the talent on that defense and the ability of many of the players to run to the football, Chapman won't get many tackles. He anchors well. Does not get pushed around easily. Strong. Just nasty in the middle. He is almost the same size as Hampton when Hampton was drafted. Hampton was 6012-314 and Chapman is 6007-316. Hampton did 34 reps, Chapman did 29. I think Hampton is much more powerful than Chapman and plays to that strength, but I also think Chapman is a little more agile, a better pass rusher. Not a huge difference, but some. I think Chapman goes in the late 2nd through the 3rd, even with his knee injury.

Alameda Ta'amu-not as sold on him as others. He has had some good games, but he does some things that turn me off. When he chases down the line, he will give some ground to get to the edge so IF he makes the play, it is often 5 or more yards down the field. He will also allow himself to get turned inside and when he gives up his back to the blocker, he is much easier to root out of the inside. But, that can be coached up too, so he is similar to Poe in those areas. He has some technique issues that need to be cleaned up but again, you are getting into that area of only so many men on the planet that have that size and athletic ability. I just get something of an uneasy feeling with him. Something I cannot put my finger on.

Mike Martin-he is another 6012-306 pound DT that has the ability to anchor inside. The great upside about Martin is he can move and be a threat as a pass rusher. He does not get rooted out often because he is hard to lock onto. He fights and works and can be disruptive because of it. He reminds me a lot of Hoke, but is a better overall athlete.

Nicolas Jean-Baptiste-When I first watched NJB, I thought he was a big gap shooting pass rusher and had almost dismissed him, but I was watching his film around the senior bowl and in practices, he was anchoring better, so I went back to more film and he actually does pretty well against the run. He is the type of guy that even IF I land a Chapman, I may go back in the later rounds and double up with NJB.

There are a handful of others, but those are the top 5 off the top of my noggin.

Good post TMC.

I don't think of Poe as highly as you do. While most of what you said is accurate, I don't see the power. Could it be masked by his poor technique? Maybe, but Poe seemed to get pushed around a lot when I watched him at Memphis. Regardless of how bad the pieces around him were or were not, when I saw him one on one with an offensive lineman I was not very impressed. I agree that puts forth good effort, but if I don't see "game-strong" on the tape, I don't care what kind of numbers a guy puts up in workouts - I don't want to invest a lot of resources in him.

As far as Chapman goes, I'm surprised you don't see him coming off the board until the late second round. I'll be shocked if he's available when we pick.

Psycho Ward 86
04-11-2012, 12:49 AM
Yeah, i know you cant put too much on one man but Mike Mayock and Bucky Brooks are THE only reliable guys that work for NFL.com. And Mike Mayock is just a remarkably good analyst, the only legitimate analyst you see out there right now. He's really on the money, and had a segment where he thought the tape on Poe was kind of average. Might be a blessing in disguise to not get him.

What do you guys think of jerel worthy?

ShutDown24
04-11-2012, 01:08 AM
Yeah, i know you cant put too much on one man but Mike Mayock and Bucky Brooks are THE only reliable guys that work for NFL.com. And Mike Mayock is just a remarkably good analyst, the only legitimate analyst you see out there right now. He's really on the money, and had a segment where he thought the tape on Poe was kind of average. Might be a blessing in disguise to not get him.

What do you guys think of jerel worthy?

Worthy would be a good fit. At 6-2 310, he's a pretty good size for nose tackle in our scheme - especially considering he'll probably gain a few pounds of muscle once he gets into the system. Although he is probably an even better fit in a 43. He's not flashy, and because of that it seems like his buzz is very low. But he's a legitimate first round prospect. Plays with good leverage and power, doesn't lose ground too often - but can struggle against double teams if he gets beat off the snap severly. He lacks quickness but is underrated as a pass rusher. There seems to be this idea that he is a "finished product" meaning he has low upside, but I don't see it. I think he has great opportunity to improve his game in the pros. That's what I've gathered from what I have watched of him anyway.

ShutDown24
04-11-2012, 02:47 AM
Mike Mayock and Bucky Brooks are THE only reliable guys that work for NFL.com.

Brooks actually annoys me. He can't ever seem to find consistencies with his evaluations. He'll make a statement about one player on Monday then on Wednesday he's changed his mind. Mayock is good but alternatively to Brooks he can be a little too stubborn for his own good. As much as people bash Kiper & McShay I probably prefer that duo to the talent NFL Network rolls out.

I used to watch all of these guys all the time. But now I try not to pay too much attention to "draftniks". I prefer to just watch football and come up with my own ideals of how good these players are. The modern draft process is bogged down by a lot of pretentious and insignificant information. Give me an hour of game footage over workout numbers and 1/1000th of an inch measurements any day of the week.

suitanim
04-11-2012, 05:34 AM
I know there isn't as much film on him, but does anyone have any in-depth knowledge of Kitchen from Kent State?

I watched him play against my Zips, and they couldn't block him, but Akron was the worst team in D-1 last year so that means nothing.

TMC
04-11-2012, 08:40 AM
Good post TMC.

I don't think of Poe as highly as you do. While most of what you said is accurate, I don't see the power. Could it be masked by his poor technique? Maybe, but Poe seemed to get pushed around a lot when I watched him at Memphis. Regardless of how bad the pieces around him were or were not, when I saw him one on one with an offensive lineman I was not very impressed. I agree that puts forth good effort, but if I don't see "game-strong" on the tape, I don't care what kind of numbers a guy puts up in workouts - I don't want to invest a lot of resources in him.

As far as Chapman goes, I'm surprised you don't see him coming off the board until the late second round. I'll be shocked if he's available when we pick.

I think Poe has some things he does very poorly. First, he does not use his hands well. You cannot show power unless you are good with your hands. He is not. He will dip his shoulder and try to push past the OL and never get his hands on guys. How can you translate your upper body strength without using your hands? When he does use his hands, I have watched him toss OL to the side with ease. His DL coach recently came out and stated that they did not use him correctly. No shit. I do not think much of that coaching staff. All of them were fired this past season. All are trending downward. In fact, his DL coach was once the HC for Alabama, when Bama fired him, he went to coach high school. He went 0-10. Fired. Muddled around HS until the new HC for Memphis hired him as a the DL coach. Blah.

In an interview while working for the combine, Poe talked about how Da'John Harris had taught him new techniques for handling blockers. Really? Another player from a better program taught you stuff in a few weeks that your DL coach did not show you in 3 years.

Poe stayed at Memphis out of loyalty for his family. Good guy. Did a good thing. Screwed him as far as his progress goes. If his technical ability were better, used his hands better, played with better technique, etc, he would be a top 5 guy.

As for Chapman, I like him a lot. He could come off sooner, hard to project a guy that did not workout and is considered a 2-down run stopper. Chapman benched at his pro day, 29 reps. Good, not great. Good enough for me, but he is not going to blow the doors off for teams that look for those massive monsters in the middle. He was one of the guys that went back to Indy this week for a medical re-check. That will be huge for him. We will see. I do not spend my first on him. If he is there in the 2nd, I certainly am very interested.

TMC
04-11-2012, 08:44 AM
What do you guys think of jerel worthy?

I just do not know if Worthy anchors well enough. He does not hold his ground well at all against the double team and can get pushed back some times by single guys. He plays a little high, seems more like a guy that fits best in a 4-3 where he is not always asked to hold that point. Good motor. Keeps coming. Chases. I like his game, just probably not for us.

TMC
04-11-2012, 08:47 AM
I know there isn't as much film on him, but does anyone have any in-depth knowledge of Kitchen from Kent State?

I watched him play against my Zips, and they couldn't block him, but Akron was the worst team in D-1 last year so that means nothing.

Against better competition, he gets turned to easily and pushed out of the play. He does not play to his power or size as well as would be expected, rarely on the other side of the LOS. No pass rush at all. Tackle to tackle, lacks the speed to get any further. Good motor not great. Wears down. I do not even think he gets drafted. I do not have him as a priority free agent either. Way down my list. I think he is my 50th DT. He is not as bad as Asa Chapman, but he is pretty average.

suitanim
04-11-2012, 09:35 AM
Against better competition, he gets turned to easily and pushed out of the play. He does not play to his power or size as well as would be expected, rarely on the other side of the LOS. No pass rush at all. Tackle to tackle, lacks the speed to get any further. Good motor not great. Wears down. I do not even think he gets drafted. I do not have him as a priority free agent either. Way down my list. I think he is my 50th DT. He is not as bad as Asa Chapman, but he is pretty average.

I do know the Steelers had someone in looking at him at Kent State's pro day. I think he lost some weight, too. I didn't expect him to be drafted, either.

Thanks for the insight.

I did find this....it's........................interesting. Says he was hurt most of the year. I hope we sign him as an UDFA...after all, we have had just a LITTLE BIT of luck with defensive players from Kent State over the years!

http://www.kentstatesports.com/sports/fball/2011-12/Releases/Ish_Kitchen

Does Kent State Have A Sleeper? (Ish Kitchen)

By Greg Gabriel, National Football Post (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Does-Kent-State-have-a-sleeper.html)

One of the fun things about writing for the NFP is that agents I have known for years will often send me tape and ask how I feel about some of their players. After I look at the tape, I may write an article about the player if I feel he has talent.

Recently I got some tape of Kent State from this past season. The player I was asked to look at was a huge defensive tackle by the name of Iahmaa’ily (ish-MAIL-ee) Kitchen, who is flying under the radar. I watched six tapes (Alabama, Kansas State, Temple, Akron, Louisiana-Lafayette and Central Michigan), and came away feeling that this is an interesting player. Kitchen played hurt most of the year, injuring his arm and missing three games and parts of others. When he came back from the injury he was wearing a large brace on his arm to protect the injury. Clearly he wasn’t 100 percent. Still he flashed talent.

Kitchen is a short but large man who looks to be about 6-0 and 343 pounds. Despite his size he moves around well, showing a burst with good balance and agility. He has good arm length for a shorter guy (32.6) and plays with good natural strength. While he is very strong, he is not as explosive as I would like. While you see power on tape you don’t see a lot of snap.

With his bulk and strength, Kitchen does a good job of occupying blockers. He consistently takes on two blockers and you seldom see him give ground. Though he doesn’t make a lot of tackles, he gets penetration on a regular basis and disrupts plays. He has fairly good hand use but still needs to shed blocks more quickly. I can’t help but think that the arm injury had something to do with that. In some of the early games (Alabama and Kansas State) he did a much better job of shedding.

The Alabama game may have been one of his better games as far as stats. I had him for 1 tackle, 4 assists, a pressure and 2 hits on the quarterback. Kitchen shows the ability to get off the ball quickly with a good first step. He stays low and has good leg drive to get penetration. He has just average instincts and will lose track of the ball at times but he consistently plays hard and stays on his feet. Early in the Alabama game he was having some trouble with “cut” blocks but adjusted and did a much job better handling these low blocks after the first quarter. As a pass rusher, he can drive his opponent back, but he doesn’t show the counter moves to get a lot of pressures.

Early in the season, Kitchen was starting, playing in a rotation and getting about 70 percent of the defensive snaps. After he came back from the arm injury, he lost his starting job but was still playing in the defensive line rotation. His play time dropped down to about 45 to 50 percent of the defensive plays. The Kent State coaches obviously felt that he wasn’t as effective after the injury. Still, he is a competitive player who goes all out on every play.

As a junior, Kitchen was not a starter but played in a rotation and had 22 tackles and 2.5 sacks. Overall, what I see is a good developmental defensive lineman. He has the traits that many 3-4 teams are looking for in that he is thick and strong, can hold the point, occupy blockers and disrupt the running game. His best position is at nose tackle. While he may be best in a 3-4 there are some 4-3 schemes that he “fits.” At 343 pounds, Kitchen needs to lose some weight. He may be best at about 325-330; at that weight he should get a little quicker and become more explosive. He has more talent than some of the defensive linemen invited to the combine and though he may need a year on a practice squad, he WILL play in the league. Players this big and strong and with Kitchen’s athleticism are hard to find. Don’t be surprised if you hear Kitchen's named called in the later rounds of this year's draft.

Psycho Ward 86
04-11-2012, 09:59 PM
I know there isn't as much film on him, but does anyone have any in-depth knowledge of Kitchen from Kent State?



Lmao, hell of a name for a defensive lineman. Any relation at all to "refrigerator" perry? :lol: