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View Full Version : Tomlin says decision was his to make change at o coordinator and hire Todd Haley



zulater
03-27-2012, 07:37 AM
Tomlin on whether Art Rooney pushed him to fire Arians: "He did not . . . I hired Todd Haley as well, which is your next question.''

https://twitter.com/#!/EdBouchette

zulater
03-27-2012, 07:48 AM
Tomlin on using a FB: We're open to that. That will be determined by what we're able to acquire.

suitanim
03-27-2012, 07:54 AM
I'm....confused. Tomlin wanted him back, and said so...then fired him on his own with no prompting from the owner? And we still have no official explanation for the firing? Why fire a guy you wanted back?

zulater
03-27-2012, 08:01 AM
I'm....confused. Tomlin wanted him back, and said so...then fired him on his own with no prompting from the owner? And we still have no official explanation for the firing? Why fire a guy you wanted back?

I tweeted Bouchette and asked him if there were any follow up questions pertaining to when and why Tomlin decided to replace Arains. So far no response from Bouchette.

steelerdude15
03-27-2012, 08:16 AM
The never ending saga. :chuckle:

zulater
03-27-2012, 08:17 AM
Tomlin on why Arians was let go by #Steelers: "I thought that it was time for change."

Godfather
03-27-2012, 08:23 AM
Everyone knows Tomlin is just a figurehead and can't coach and only succeeded because he inherited a full cupboard from Cowher.

Bluecoat96
03-27-2012, 08:24 AM
Tomlin on why Arians was let go by #Steelers: "I thought that it was time for change."

I wonder if the initials reports concerning Tomlin wanting Arians back were either distorted or flat out wrong. That would be a shocker. :sarcasm2:

fansince'76
03-27-2012, 08:25 AM
Everyone knows Tomlin is just a figurehead and can't coach and only succeeded because he inherited a full cupboard from Cowher.

And was only hired 'cause of the Rooney Rule! :rolleyes:

tube517
03-27-2012, 11:07 AM
And was only hired 'cause of the Rooney Rule! :rolleyes:

Naw, it's his experience on "House" that got him the job. We all know he is just a puppet for Art Jonesnyderooney II. :chuckle:

suitanim
03-27-2012, 11:26 AM
Let's please keep in mind that at the press conference following our loss to Denver, Tomlin said he expected his whole staff back. Then ROONEY said "some of the coaches are considering retiring". Then Arians contract wasn't renewed, he said he was retiring, and then he was quickly hired by the Colts.

That's a pretty clear and obvious path of exactly what went down...probably the most telling bit in all this is Arians conveniently "retiring" (to fit Rooney's story), then went to work for Indianapolis because he clearly wasn't done coaching.

I'm not sure why there is a revision of history going on here. Maybe to save Tomlin face?

shutdown
03-27-2012, 12:57 PM
No it doesnt.

People are allowed to say one thing, dwell on it and decide on something else. Sure Tomlin said this after an emotional playoff loss, but you're no one to say that he didn't afterwards give it some thought or what not and changed his mind. No one knows what was said behind closed doors, no one knows what played into Tomlin making the decision.

Speculate all you want, but to me if the man says he was entirely his decision, it was entirely his decision. These conspiracy theories are only valid to tinfoil heads.

SteelMember
03-27-2012, 01:25 PM
I think Rooney is hacking Tomlin's twitter account... that's the only obvious answer.

:chuckle:

suitanim
03-27-2012, 01:27 PM
I say the true conspiracy theory is looking at all the available evidence and saying that it WAS Tomlin who made the call, and not Rooney.

Rooney supposedly wanted him gone after '09. Tomlin never voiced any displeasure. Where did the whole retirement ruse come from? Tomlin is reported to have NOT ONCE changed an Arians call, or overrode him in any way. I also believe tomlin had said many time prior that he strove for continuity, which also plays into him wanting Arians back, so he not only said it directly, he also said it indirectly.

This is so obviously Rooney's decision it actually shocks me that people would do the mental gymnastics necessary to think otherwise. I also find it.........odd that it's mostly the Arians haters who have somehow leaped to the defense of Rooney, and will now be the first to jump ship and do a 180 and say it really WAS Tomlin all along.

shutdown
03-27-2012, 02:01 PM
I say the true conspiracy theory is looking at all the available evidence and saying that it WAS Tomlin who made the call, and not Rooney.

Rooney supposedly wanted him gone after '09. Tomlin never voiced any displeasure. Where did the whole retirement ruse come from? Tomlin is reported to have NOT ONCE changed an Arians call, or overrode him in any way. I also believe tomlin had said many time prior that he strove for continuity, which also plays into him wanting Arians back, so he not only said it directly, he also said it indirectly.

This is so obviously Rooney's decision it actually shocks me that people would do the mental gymnastics necessary to think otherwise. I also find it.........odd that it's mostly the Arians haters who have somehow leaped to the defense of Rooney, and will now be the first to jump ship and do a 180 and say it really WAS Tomlin all along.

Says the guy who admits in his response he's solely bases his opinion on what has been REPORTED to him. Then the laughable part, if you contradict yourself by admitting you're cherry picking what REPORTS you want to believe and disbelieve.

Speculation and Assumptions are not facts in my book. The only mental gymnastics here are when someone tries to convince me they are.

O'Malley
03-27-2012, 02:11 PM
Here we go again... Can of worms is open, again... Can't just take his word for it and believe he changed his mind and decieded Bruce had to go... Maybe he looked at film after they got Tebowed and decieded that Bruce was not up to the standard... @ Suit... You just have to let this go man... Mike fired Bruce and moved on and IMO upgraded the OC position.

Craic
03-27-2012, 02:56 PM
Here we go again... Can of worms is open, again... Can't just take his word for it and believe he changed his mind and decieded Bruce had to go... Maybe he looked at film after they got Tebowed and decieded that Bruce was not up to the standard... @ Suit... You just have to let this go man... Mike fired Bruce and moved on and IMO upgraded the OC position.

But if he looked at film after getting Tebowed - wouldn't that mean it was the defensive OC that was not up to the standard? I mean, a supposed horrible QB hung 29 points on the Steelers stellar D. So I'm not sure how that game would result in the OC and not the DC being fired. My guess, is that Rooney decided he wasn't comfortable with the offensive and wanted a more balanced production. Tomlin wanted Arians back because "the devil you know, is better than the one you don't."

I would surmise that Tomlin got called in to the office and some very strict guidelines were set and within those, Tomlin probably talked to Arians and decided to part ways. They called it a retirement, but Arians wasn't ready for it and jumped at the opportunity to coach again.

There doesn't really need to be any conspiracy theory here folks. Tomlin seems to be the type of guy that would berate an assistant coach behind closed doors and then come out to the podium and state that "we had planned and practiced those plays all weeks and they were in the playbook for a reason. I am comfortable with the decision to use them."

It's called protecting your people. He does that, and it seems he instills loyalty by doing it.

Chidi29
03-27-2012, 03:33 PM
I don't know how we can believe Arians "retired" when he's coaching now and there were never any indications that he wanted to retire. He was submitting head coaching applications the year prior.

Nor is it reasonable to think Tomlin was speaking though emotion at his presser and suddenly changed his mind. One game doesn't change your mind, good or bad. I'm sure he had given it thought during the season.

What makes the most sense are those things combined followed by the reports that backed that up. Thinking otherwise is as suit put it best, mental gymnastics.

O'Malley
03-27-2012, 03:36 PM
But if he looked at film after getting Tebowed - wouldn't that mean it was the defensive OC that was not up to the standard? I mean, a supposed horrible QB hung 29 points on the Steelers stellar D. So I'm not sure how that game would result in the OC and not the DC being fired. My guess, is that Rooney decided he wasn't comfortable with the offensive and wanted a more balanced production. Tomlin wanted Arians back because "the devil you know, is better than the one you don't."

I would surmise that Tomlin got called in to the office and some very strict guidelines were set and within those, Tomlin probably talked to Arians and decided to part ways. They called it a retirement, but Arians wasn't ready for it and jumped at the opportunity to coach again.

There doesn't really need to be any conspiracy theory here folks. Tomlin seems to be the type of guy that would berate an assistant coach behind closed doors and then come out to the podium and state that "we had planned and practiced those plays all weeks and they were in the playbook for a reason. I am comfortable with the decision to use them."

It's called protecting your people. He does that, and it seems he instills loyalty by doing it.

You think he only looked at the Denver game? Bruce continually did the same things.. Score more points and don't leave a short field(which is the opposite of what Bruce did)... That's on the OC... You can't always rely on the defense to bail you out... There were plenty of oppurtunities to score and drives that stalled... Which IMO were the signature of the Bruce Arians offense. The game should not have been close to begin with.. Depending on the defense to win games every year because the offense was so inept was what I think Mike saw and the reason he got rid of Bruce... That's the point I making... You look back and tell me if I'm out of line saying that, because I saw it happen the whole time Bruce was the OC.. He didn't know how to put a game out of reach... The defense always came up big and changed the game, not the offense, barring a couple last second heroics by Ben(which without the defense he wouldn't have had the chance to come back).

XxKnightxX
03-27-2012, 03:43 PM
I read about 5 of these posts, and i slammed on my spacebar key scrolling to the end of the page. Its over no use in crying over spilled milk. Haley is our OC now.

Count Steeler
03-27-2012, 04:01 PM
Both sides of the Arians coin looking for vindication. Seriously folks, Tomlin is a man and he CAN lie. Is he lying here?, don't know, don't care.

Arians retired, why so hard to believe? Is he a liar? An opportunity opened up for him that was too good to pass up. If Tampa Bay or Miami called, he is probably still in retirement. He loves Indy, I believe he started his coaching days there, he went on about how special he feels there.

Rooney must wield some powerful mental abilities if he make can these guys say what he wants them to say. :sarcasm:

ALLD
03-27-2012, 04:24 PM
You think he only looked at the Denver game? Bruce continually did the same things.. Score more points and don't leave a short field(which is the opposite of what Bruce did)... That's on the OC... You can't always rely on the defense to bail you out... There were plenty of oppurtunities to score and drives that stalled... Which IMO were the signature of the Bruce Arians offense. The game should not have been close to begin with.. Depending on the defense to win games every year because the offense was so inept was what I think Mike saw and the reason he got rid of Bruce... That's the point I making... You look back and tell me if I'm out of line saying that, because I saw it happen the whole time Bruce was the OC.. He didn't know how to put a game out of reach... The defense always came up big and changed the game, not the offense, barring a couple last second heroics by Ben(which without the defense he wouldn't have had the chance to come back).

I am also glad he is gone, just like my ex-wife who was also "retired". If Arians was a horse he would have been shot.

SteelGhost
03-27-2012, 04:32 PM
http://phinphanatic.com/files/2007/11/dead-horse1.jpg

fansince'76
03-27-2012, 04:40 PM
http://phinphanatic.com/files/2007/11/dead-horse1.jpg

This.

Count Steeler
03-27-2012, 04:46 PM
So who will write the first book? And who will write the rebuttal to say it was all Rooney's orchestration?

suitanim
03-27-2012, 04:53 PM
It was saving face for the HC. It's as obvious as the word "obvious" can be. It's not my job to make people believe what is obviously the truth, but I don't have to be all Barney the purple Dinosaur about it when they don't, either.

Spin is spin. This was spun a LOT. Tomlin had to save face, and he did. It took too long, IMO, and should have been done right after Rooney shitcanned Arians, but it didn't. Hopefully the FO learned a PR lesson and we're good from now on...

Remember, WARD was asked to retire, too, and didn't comply with the Rooney wishes either, then (probably when he saw how skinny the contracts available to him really were) opted to go with plan A.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-27-2012, 04:56 PM
Naw, it's his experience on "House" that got him the job. We all know he is just a puppet for Art Jonesnyderooney II. :chuckle:

Honestly, I thought his performance in "Juice" opposite Tupac was his best work.

SMR
03-27-2012, 04:57 PM
http://phinphanatic.com/files/2007/11/dead-horse1.jpg

This x 2

shutdown
03-27-2012, 04:57 PM
I don't know how we can believe Arians "retired" when he's coaching now and there were never any indications that he wanted to retire. He was submitting head coaching applications the year prior.


Nor is it reasonable to think Tomlin was speaking though emotion at his presser and suddenly changed his mind. One game doesn't change your mind, good or bad. I'm sure he had given it thought during the season.


What makes the most sense are those things combined followed by the reports that backed that up. Thinking otherwise is as suit put it best, mental gymnastics.


People retire all the time and go off to other jobs. My friend "retired" form one cities police force and went to another at age 26. And never indications he wanted to retire? You're cherry picking just like suit. I've heard talks of him retiring for the last several seasons.


Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that the entire situation of BA was a mess and leaves a lot of room for speculation, but seriously, you're speculating as worse as anyone else.


Again I can logically see why you'd assume that is what happend, but its merely that... an assumption. Arians was your boy, so its conveinent that you'd want to believe he was somehow wronged, but you truely dont know. You don't know if Arians walked those halls talking about retirement and the Steelers used it as a nice way to show him the door. Its been "reported" (theres that word you like) that he's been talking retirement years prior.


You're trying to put a large puzzle together, not I. I say there wasn't a puzzle to begin with. It was Tomlins decsiion, everyone said it was Tomlin's decision, and that's good enough for me.

shutdown
03-27-2012, 05:06 PM
It was saving face for the HC.


And that's where the speculation begins.


Once you start off on the wrong foot, then its easy to continue down the wrong path.


Why does he have to save face? Because some silly fans (definitely not the majority or even half for the matter) are butt hurt because their beloved OC wasn't handled with delicate gloves? Because the media is asking the same question after same question because there was some obvious room for speculation when a retired OC immediately lands a new job,


Spare me, no one is saving face. That is your way of spinning it you're silly point make sense.

suitanim
03-27-2012, 05:09 PM
My favorite Roethlisberger quote of all time is (and I'm paraphrasing): "Arians gets WAY too much heat. He's really good. We players....WE KNOW."

The fans can hate all they want. And they GOT what they want. I don't like Tomlin buying into this third-rate revisionist history bullshit, either, but it is what it is, and he has to control his stable of players.

The bottom line is, the fans, especially the less astute, always hate and blame the OC. It won't change with Haley no matter what he does. I just hope that if HE has success we don't have to go through the same garbage again some day.

BigNastyDefense
03-27-2012, 05:21 PM
Here is what I think happened:

After the loss, an emotional Tomlin says that he expects his whole staff back.

Tomlin at some point changes his mind on Arians. Arians has talked about retirement before, and I think he used retirement as a way to get a contract extension. I think Tomlin told him maybe he should just retire because he wasn't going to deal with Arians acting like Brett Favre every offseason, and then told Art Rooney that unless he wanted Arians back, not to renew his contract.

Therefore, expecting Arians to retire, Rooney announces that his contract isn't being extended due to him expressing a desire to retire. Arians then changes his mind when offered the OC position in Indy.

OR, Arians wants to leave Pittsburgh and go to Indy, so he says he wants to retire so his contract isn't renewed and then simply acts like he changed his mind when offered the Colts OC position.

Either way, he's gone and I am excited about Haley being the offensive coordinator of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I think he's going to be better than Arians was and he will get the most out of this offense.

Craic
03-27-2012, 05:28 PM
You think he only looked at the Denver game? Bruce continually did the same things.. Score more points and don't leave a short field(which is the opposite of what Bruce did)... That's on the OC... You can't always rely on the defense to bail you out... There were plenty of oppurtunities to score and drives that stalled... Which IMO were the signature of the Bruce Arians offense. The game should not have been close to begin with.. Depending on the defense to win games every year because the offense was so inept was what I think Mike saw and the reason he got rid of Bruce... That's the point I making... You look back and tell me if I'm out of line saying that, because I saw it happen the whole time Bruce was the OC.. He didn't know how to put a game out of reach... The defense always came up big and changed the game, not the offense, barring a couple last second heroics by Ben(which without the defense he wouldn't have had the chance to come back).

Seriously,

back to Arians bashing? It's old. I was merely pointing out that the fail against the Bronco's was as much or more the defensive strategy.

And no, the defense does not "always" come up big. Matter of fact, there's a thread around here someplace where I documented every fourth quarter where the defense allowed the other team back into the game, including Cowher's time.

shutdown
03-27-2012, 05:29 PM
For the record, I liked Arians and wanted him to stay as our OC. Was sad we didn't resign him and am suspect of Haley. Amazing were assumptions get you, isn't it. :wave:

Steeldude
03-27-2012, 06:46 PM
Tomlin most likely wanted Arians gone. A post-game interview isn't going to get you genuine answers about the future of the coaches on the team. Basically, Arians sucked and the Steelers wanted to upgrade.

BigNastyDefense
03-27-2012, 08:37 PM
Tomlin most likely wanted Arians gone. A post-game interview isn't going to get you genuine answers about the future of the coaches on the team. Basically, Arians sucked and the Steelers wanted to upgrade.

That's how I see it. Tomlin isn't the type of person to throw anyone under the bus, even after a horrible loss like the one we had against the Broncos in the playoffs. You don't get straight answers from Tomlin when it comes to stuff like that, ever. Even if he was thinking about firing the entire coaching staff, he would have said that he planned on everyone returning for this season.

86WARD
03-27-2012, 09:11 PM
Calling bullshit on this one.

zulater
03-27-2012, 09:52 PM
So what's the issue here anyway? I mean how's it Tomlin's fault that Arians decided to retire and then un-retire in a couple weeks time? :wink02:

Seriously though we can only guess at this point who pushed Arians out the door. My opinion, it was Rooney initiated. But regardless I'm fairly comfortable in the opinion that Haley's hiring was 100% Tomlin's doing. And to me that's the important thing going forward.

suitanim
03-28-2012, 05:46 AM
Tomlin never second guessed Arians, not once. He repeatedly stated he wanted continuity. There was never even a slight HINT that he wanted Arians gone.

Rooney compained, publicly, and repeatedly about Arians. Then he used the word "retire", and conveniently, Arians also used that word to gloss over his obvious firing, which obviously came from Rooney. It's very cut and dried...

What KILLS me about this is that everyone here just a couple months ago agreed that Rooney did the firing...I don't remember a single person saying otherwise. Then a couple months later, we hear one little peep out of Tomlin to the contrary, something he may have not even meant, and people are all ready to hop on the revisionist history bandwagon. Tomlin saves face, looks like he's in charge (and I'm sure if people here believe the new, concocted story, at least some players will, too) and everyone pretends that this was the way it was all along.

What I can't fathom is what is there to possibly be gained from sticking your head in the sand and being a lemming about this. Honestly, what good does it do for people to be duped here? Does it matter who did (or, in this case, did NOT) the firing? Does it make the Arians haters feel better to think it was the coach instead of the owner? I just don't understand the angle here...

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-28-2012, 07:55 AM
Are fans still gnashing their teeth in the hopes the Steelers will try to get the Colts OC to come to Pittsburgh?

Move on already.

suitanim
03-28-2012, 08:43 AM
Are fans still gnashing their teeth in the hopes the Steelers will try to get the Colts OC to come to Pittsburgh?

Move on already.

Irrelevant. This is all about how the Steelers handle their business...and the very poor PR job on this particular piece of business.

Steeldude
03-28-2012, 12:34 PM
Are fans still gnashing their teeth in the hopes the Steelers will try to get the Colts OC to come to Pittsburgh?

Move on already.

Don't you mean fan, not fans? :D

shutdown
03-28-2012, 12:46 PM
*Facepalm*

Such bold assumptions, only illustrates willing ignorance.


Tomlin never second guessed Arians, not once. He repeatedly stated he wanted continuity. There was never even a slight HINT that he wanted Arians gone.

Tomlin doesn't second guess many. He keeps it all to himself. Coach speak is just that, coach speak. Arians never second guessed his staff, heck he verbally campaigned to keep players like Kemo, Simmons amongst others. Are we to say Bruce was happy to have those players many feel were detrimental to this offense, or do we play of off as coach speech?




Rooney compained, publicly, and repeatedly about Arians. Then he used the word "retire", and conveniently, Arians also used that word to gloss over his obvious firing, which obviously came from Rooney. It's very cut and dried...

The first person to ever mumble the words retirement was Arians. Let's just make that perfectly clear.


What KILLS me about this is that everyone here just a couple months ago agreed that Rooney did the firing...I don't remember a single person saying otherwise. Then a couple months later, we hear one little peep out of Tomlin to the contrary, something he may have not even meant, and people are all ready to hop on the revisionist history bandwagon. Tomlin saves face, looks like he's in charge (and I'm sure if people here believe the new, concocted story, at least some players will, too) and everyone pretends that this was the way it was all along.

Just because no one said anything doesn't mean they believed your conspiracy theories. I didn't come to such bold conclusions like you did in some lame attempt to justify the situation in your feeble little mind.



What I can't fathom is what is there to possibly be gained from sticking your head in the sand and being a lemming about this.

LOL, you remind me of the 9/11 was an inside job people. We're all sheep if don't believe the government flew those planes into the building. Give me a break, this is a typical response from nut jobs who enjoy conspiracy theories. Way to play by the book. Just because we're not buying your speculation on the matter, we're being a lemming. No. I provided my counter point, you're just to thick headed to comprehend or attempt to understand any other opinion outside of your dense one. Furthermore, I mentioned I understand why you'd come to such a assumption, I just don't believe it. Simple as that.

You can continue to try and make it seem you know it best, but it just makes you look more ignorant.


Honestly, what good does it do for people to be duped here? Does it matter who did (or, in this case, did NOT) the firing? Does it make the Arians haters feel better to think it was the coach instead of the owner? I just don't understand the angle here...

Again, I am not an Arians hater, and im not being duped. Just because I don't believe your assumption on the matter, doesn't mean I am being duped. I believe in facts, and no matter how hard you pound sand, you'll never make anyone with even half a brain believe your assumptions are facts. That is your personal opinion, that is your conclusion you came up with while wearing your little tin foil hat, and the fact that I don't agree with you, you think I am being duped. On the contrary, I am not being duped by you if anything.

O'Malley
03-28-2012, 01:29 PM
Seriously,

back to Arians bashing? It's old. I was merely pointing out that the fail against the Bronco's was as much or more the defensive strategy.

And no, the defense does not "always" come up big. Matter of fact, there's a thread around here someplace where I documented every fourth quarter where the defense allowed the other team back into the game, including Cowher's time.

Troy comes up with sack fumble in playoffs against the Rats, James has a 100 yard INT in super bowl, Ike gets interception that leads to go ahead TD in Super Bowl.. It's pretty clear to me that the defense is always the spark and comes up big when it counts.. Especially when they win Super Bowls... The Steelers have leaned on the defense since Ben has taken over as the QB... The offense never put games away.. They simply took advantage of a big defensive play... So I maintain Bruce simply rode the coat tails of the defense that set up the chance to win, or won the game out right... You can say what ever you want about it.. But the facts are the facts.. Without the #1 D in the league the Steelers never even make it the the Super Bowl let alone win it... Look at the most recent Super Bowl.. The Offense stalled and the D didn't come up big and the Steelers lost... Tomlin IMO made the right choice to move on from Bruce and I for one hope the offense starts pulling their own weight... If they can get it going consistantly on the offesive side of the ball and have the D play up to their #1 standard they would be unbeatable... With Bruce at the wheel there was too many three and outs stalled drives and redzone failures to keep him around. Every stop Bruce has made his offesnses have had terrible redzone stats.. Had they been able to convert redzone trips in to touchdowns half the close games they played would have been routes... So moving on only makes sense and Haley is a great OC.. It's not Bruce bashing it's just the facts.. He just didn't get the job done, and had five seasons to prove himself and failed.. Yes he did help win two championships... But like I stated the D was a bigger part of the championships then the offense..

fansince'76
03-28-2012, 01:47 PM
It's pretty clear to me that the defense is always the spark and comes up big when it counts.. Especially when they win Super Bowls... The Steelers have leaned on the defense since Ben has taken over as the QB...

That would include Whisenhunt's tenure as OC too...

O'Malley
03-28-2012, 01:53 PM
That would include Whisenhunt's tenure as OC too...

True...

zulater
03-28-2012, 01:58 PM
Why are we still arguing this?

Does everyone agree that Tomlin was responsible for hiring Haley?

So at this point what does it matter why Arians was let go?

SteelGhost
03-28-2012, 02:02 PM
Why are we still arguing this?

Does anyone disagree that Tomlin was responsible for hiring Haley?

So at this point what does it matter why Arians was let go?

The voice or reason :thumbsup:

suitanim
03-28-2012, 03:16 PM
*Facepalm*

Such bold assumptions, only illustrates willing ignorance.



Tomlin doesn't second guess many. He keeps it all to himself. Coach speak is just that, coach speak. Arians never second guessed his staff, heck he verbally campaigned to keep players like Kemo, Simmons amongst others. Are we to say Bruce was happy to have those players many feel were detrimental to this offense, or do we play of off as coach speech?





The first person to ever mumble the words retirement was Arians. Let's just make that perfectly clear.



Just because no one said anything doesn't mean they believed your conspiracy theories. I didn't come to such bold conclusions like you did in some lame attempt to justify the situation in your feeble little mind.




LOL, you remind me of the 9/11 was an inside job people. We're all sheep if don't believe the government flew those planes into the building. Give me a break, this is a typical response from nut jobs who enjoy conspiracy theories. Way to play by the book. Just because we're not buying your speculation on the matter, we're being a lemming. No. I provided my counter point, you're just to thick headed to comprehend or attempt to understand any other opinion outside of your dense one. Furthermore, I mentioned I understand why you'd come to such a assumption, I just don't believe it. Simple as that.

You can continue to try and make it seem you know it best, but it just makes you look more ignorant.



Again, I am not an Arians hater, and im not being duped. Just because I don't believe your assumption on the matter, doesn't mean I am being duped. I believe in facts, and no matter how hard you pound sand, you'll never make anyone with even half a brain believe your assumptions are facts. That is your personal opinion, that is your conclusion you came up with while wearing your little tin foil hat, and the fact that I don't agree with you, you think I am being duped. On the contrary, I am not being duped by you if anything.

Almost everything you typed here was either wrong, or just as big, or bigger, of an assumption that you are bending over backwards to castigate me for making.

Let's start:

-Calling me ignorant is....well, it's fun. I like it.
-Rooney said "Some coaches will be retiring". That was said before Arians said anything. So you're wrong here.
-I have no idea how you know anything about who or how Tomlin second guesses people. My information came from the myriad reports of people looking and asking AFTER the fact. If you have some insider information, that's great, but we all know that you don't.
-"Feeble little mind" and "conspiracy theory" and "nut job" are ad homs and trying to question my credibility. However, I'm not the one doing a 180 here, or ignoring the years of empirical data, you are. Wrong again. Actually, it really just sounds like you are angry at being called out for being wrong and are losing your cool. Whatevs, dude.
-The rest is just more angry petulance...you remind me of kids today who get all angry and start yelling and blaming people when an adult says "no" to you. It's quite comical to watch people lose their minds because mommy never said no.

It's fine if you buy this PR junk. But please don't question people who never changed their position, and don't. And all the name calling and petulant nonsense only undermines whatever little credibility you may have had.

shutdown
03-28-2012, 03:34 PM
Rooney said "Some coaches will be retiring". That was said before Arians said anything. So you're wrong here.

Rooney said coaches "might" retire or are "considering". Change a word to help your point. Pretty clever there.


I have no idea how you know anything about who or how Tomlin second guesses people. My information came from the myriad reports of people looking and asking AFTER the fact. If you have some insider information, that's great, but we all know that you don't.

I have no idea what you're babbling here. All I simply said was Tomlin is excellent at coach speak and is great at not giving straight answers. The fact you came up with your own amidst the MYRIAD of coach speak, proves my point.


"Feeble little mind" and "conspiracy theory" and "nut job" are ad homs and trying to question my credibility. However, I'm not the one doing a 180 here, or ignoring the years of empirical data, you are. Wrong again. Actually, it really just sounds like you are angry at being called out for being wrong and are losing your cool. Whatevs, dude.

How can an opinion or assumption be wrong. See this is the ignorance I was talking about. Your trying to make your assumption fact, when it isnt. It's your assumption, its your opinion and you truly do not know the real answer here. How hard is that for your "feeble little mind" to comprehend.


The rest is just more angry petulance...you remind me of kids today who get all angry and start yelling and blaming people when an adult says "no" to you. It's quite comical to watch people lose their minds because mommy never said no.

Another baseless assumption on your part. Quite ignorant as well. Seems to be your forte. From claiming yourself being right, to patting yourself on the back, to calling me an Arians hater (which ive said several times im not), to making baseless assumptions, to misquoting people, and then claiming I am the upset one? The smile on my face and the laughter I get reading your responses speak elsewise.

Again, overall you have your own conspiracy theroy of an opinion, and I have mine. They're different, but they're still just opinion. The fact you continue to pound sand and declare it as fact, and as being right, just proves how silly you're really being about it. :doh:

suitanim
03-28-2012, 04:59 PM
Rooney said coaches "might" retire or are "considering". Change a word to help your point. Pretty clever there.



I have no idea what you're babbling here. All I simply said was Tomlin is excellent at coach speak and is great at not giving straight answers. The fact you came up with your own amidst the MYRIAD of coach speak, proves my point.



How can an opinion or assumption be wrong. See this is the ignorance I was talking about. Your trying to make your assumption fact, when it isnt. It's your assumption, its your opinion and you truly do not know the real answer here. How hard is that for your "feeble little mind" to comprehend.



Another baseless assumption on your part. Quite ignorant as well. Seems to be your forte. From claiming yourself being right, to patting yourself on the back, to calling me an Arians hater (which ive said several times im not), to making baseless assumptions, to misquoting people, and then claiming I am the upset one? The smile on my face and the laughter I get reading your responses speak elsewise.

Again, overall you have your own conspiracy theroy of an opinion, and I have mine. They're different, but they're still just opinion. The fact you continue to pound sand and declare it as fact, and as being right, just proves how silly you're really being about it. :doh:

(sigh)

You're smarter and better than me.

You win.

salamander
03-28-2012, 05:58 PM
Bruce Arians is gone and Todd Haley is our new O-coordinator. I don't care who fired/forced to "retire" or hired who. Those are my thoughts on this whole thing.

steelerdude15
03-28-2012, 09:24 PM
Troy comes up with sack fumble in playoffs against the Rats, James has a 100 yard INT in super bowl, Ike gets interception that leads to go ahead TD in Super Bowl.. It's pretty clear to me that the defense is always the spark and comes up big when it counts.. Especially when they win Super Bowls... The Steelers have leaned on the defense since Ben has taken over as the QB... The offense never put games away.. They simply took advantage of a big defensive play... So I maintain Bruce simply rode the coat tails of the defense that set up the chance to win, or won the game out right... You can say what ever you want about it.. But the facts are the facts.. Without the #1 D in the league the Steelers never even make it the the Super Bowl let alone win it... Look at the most recent Super Bowl.. The Offense stalled and the D didn't come up big and the Steelers lost... Tomlin IMO made the right choice to move on from Bruce and I for one hope the offense starts pulling their own weight... If they can get it going consistantly on the offesive side of the ball and have the D play up to their #1 standard they would be unbeatable... With Bruce at the wheel there was too many three and outs stalled drives and redzone failures to keep him around. Every stop Bruce has made his offesnses have had terrible redzone stats.. Had they been able to convert redzone trips in to touchdowns half the close games they played would have been routes... So moving on only makes sense and Haley is a great OC.. It's not Bruce bashing it's just the facts.. He just didn't get the job done, and had five seasons to prove himself and failed.. Yes he did help win two championships... But like I stated the D was a bigger part of the championships then the offense..

There have been plenty of games where Ben and the offense has saved this team and I can think of one shining example, Super Bowl 43. If I'm correct, it was the defense that let Fitzgerald run down the field scoring the touchdown and it was Ben who led the game winning drive and passed the game winning touchdown to Holmes. Let's not forget the other twenty six times he's done it.

Count Steeler
03-29-2012, 05:15 AM
There have been plenty of games where Ben and the offense has saved this team and I can think of one shining example, Super Bowl 43. If I'm correct, it was the defense that let Fitzgerald run down the field scoring the touchdown and it was Ben who led the game winning drive and passed the game winning touchdown to Holmes. Let's not forget the other twenty six times he's done it.

And let's not forget Woodley's sack fumble on Warner that sealed the game. Fitz was open again, BTW.

Anyways, this is a pointless argument. We are a team. Defense shines some weeks, offense shines some weeks, ST shines some weeks. Our defense is our focal point because we are the Steelers. Defense lives in Pittsburgh.

suitanim
03-30-2012, 09:25 AM
In the interest of accuracy, I wanted to post the exact timeline of incidents. If there are people who can't (or won't) see some.....um....irregularities here, that's on them, not me. Again, my overall concern is with the accuracy and consistency of information coming out of the Steelers FO. I can't recall another instance outside of MAYBE Ward's holdout where things weren't 100% accurate and crystal clear.



On Jan. 9, a day after the Steelers' playoff loss at Denver, Tomlin said he anticipated both of his coordinators would return, although he added, "we all understand what the end of the season is about and movement is a part of it in today's NFL for both players and coaches."
On Jan. 17, Rooney indicated that some members of the coaching staff were considering retirement.
On Jan. 20, Tomlin announced in a statement that "Bruce Arians has informed me that he will retire from coaching."
On Jan. 23, Arians told the York Daily Record that Rooney informed him that his contract wasn't being renewed.
On Jan. 28, eight days after his "retirement announcement" by the Steelers, Arians joined the Indianapolis Colts (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/ind/indianapolis-colts) as their offensive coordinator.

XxKnightxX
03-30-2012, 03:07 PM
http://www.theblackpeppercorn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/drooling-homer-simpson.jpg
Just let it go people. I think the dead horse has become fresh topsoil already.

Count Steeler
03-30-2012, 03:30 PM
In the interest of accuracy, I wanted to post the exact timeline of incidents. If there are people who can't (or won't) see some.....um....irregularities here, that's on them, not me. Again, my overall concern is with the accuracy and consistency of information coming out of the Steelers FO. I can't recall another instance outside of MAYBE Ward's holdout where things weren't 100% accurate and crystal clear.


On Jan. 9, a day after the Steelers' playoff loss at Denver, Tomlin said he anticipated both of his coordinators would return, although he added, "we all understand what the end of the season is about and movement is a part of it in today's NFL for both players and coaches."
On Jan. 17, Rooney indicated that some members of the coaching staff were considering retirement.
On Jan. 20, Tomlin announced in a statement that "Bruce Arians has informed me that he will retire from coaching."
On Jan. 23, Arians told the York Daily Record that Rooney informed him that his contract wasn't being renewed.
On Jan. 28, eight days after his "retirement announcement" by the Steelers, Arians joined the Indianapolis Colts (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/ind/indianapolis-colts) as their offensive coordinator.


Perhaps Rooney/Tomlin asked Arians how he would like to be terminated, letting him know that he would not be offered another contract. Arians chose to say he would retire, not dreaming that a position would open up at his favorite football team, in his favorite city. As fortune would have it, the new HC offered Bruce the position and he jumped at it.

Technically, the Steelers couldn't say Arians was fired, because his contract expired. I do think Arians was given a choice of how to announce his non-return to the Steelers.

Count Steeler
03-30-2012, 03:36 PM
http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/ARIANS-READY-FOR-ROUND-TWO/55c62090-9b70-42cc-80c3-994f3eb0fdfd


“It was by far the best three years I’ve had,” said Arians. “Learning with (Offensive Coordinator) Tom Moore and (Offensive Line Coach) Howard Mudd and just watching Peyton grow. I loved being allowed to coach. Tom let me coach, and I’m always indebted to him. We’ve (the family) lived in 10 or 11 different places, and we’ve always said Indianapolis was our favorite. We look forward to coming back and being a part of the community.”

sgtrobo
03-30-2012, 05:05 PM
I've seen these arguments everywhere, and there are a few things I just can never quite grasp. Some semi-rhetorical questions follow:


1. Does Tomlin have a duty to inform the press of everything he plans to do? Does Deuce?
2. Does Tomlin have a duty to be 100% accurate with behind-the-scenes personnel movement when speaking to the press?
3. Has Tomlin ever publically embarassed, criticized, or berated any of his assistant coaches or staff? Should he have told the press "we're going to fire Arians" at the conference, prior to discussing it with Arians?
4. Should Tomlin, as head coach, and Rooney, as owner, discuss personnel matters prior to making huge personnel moves, or should they make snap decisions immediately after a playoff loss, and then make press statements about personnel moves prior to discussing it with each other or the person in question?
5. Did Tomlin have the time to thoroughly discuss firing or keeping Arians immediately after the Broncos loss, prior to giving his statement about "anticipating his coaching staff coming back"?
6. Did Tomlin, perchance, provide an OBVIOUS opening when he said, basically, "we think they'll be back, but movement is part of the NFL"?
7. Did Arians ever make a habit of "leaking" information to the PPG and other local newspaper folks?
8. Do you think the local beat writers liked having a source of inside information at their fingertips?
9. Do you think the local writers were perhaps irked that their meat and potatoes insider was now gone?
10. Did all of those local writers conveniently ignore Rooney the first time when he said "the decision was Tomlin's"?

Mach1
03-30-2012, 05:08 PM
http://www.disabledonline.com/community/file/pic/photo/2011/07/rainey-get-over-it-56ohb9xzb-102606-500-400-401.jpg

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-30-2012, 11:48 PM
http://www.disabledonline.com/community/file/pic/photo/2011/07/rainey-get-over-it-56ohb9xzb-102606-500-400-401.jpg :lol:

steelerdude15
03-31-2012, 01:45 AM
http://www.disabledonline.com/community/file/pic/photo/2011/07/rainey-get-over-it-56ohb9xzb-102606-500-400-401.jpg

Very good point.

suitanim
04-01-2012, 08:59 AM
Again, the diversions and little snarky asides are irrelevant. An I'm far from the only one who is questioning some obvious changes in the way the Steelers do business. This isn't even about Arians, rather the way they handled that piece of business. This is also about Ward, and the FO/HC relationship, and the playbook flip-flop, and a couple other things as well.

Is it their duty to be square with the fans and media? I guess not. But they always have been. I like it that way...

Steeldude
04-01-2012, 11:59 AM
Again, the diversions and little snarky asides are irrelevant. An I'm far from the only one who is questioning some obvious changes in the way the Steelers do business. This isn't even about Arians, rather the way they handled that piece of business. This is also about Ward, and the FO/HC relationship, and the playbook flip-flop, and a couple other things as well.

Is it their duty to be square with the fans and media? I guess not. But they always have been. I like it that way...

Everyone here has questioned the Steelers organization at one time or another. The problem is when someone else does it you endlessly attack and harass them for it.

Please, to you this has everything to do with Arians being canned. Since Arians was kicked to the curb you have tried to hi-jack too many threads by injecting Arians into the subject.

It's over. Arians is gone and it's a great thing. You need to accept and move on :thumbsup:

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-01-2012, 12:11 PM
Everyone here has questioned the Steelers organization at one time or another. The problem is when someone else does it you endlessly attack and harass them for it.

Please, to you this has everything to do with Arians being canned. Since Arians was kicked to the curb you have tried to hi-jack too many threads by injecting Arians into the subject.

It's over. Arians is gone and it's a great thing. You need to accept and move on :thumbsup:

What?? are you trying to say that if you challenge the Steelers front office , you are the leader of the "flat earth society" or a "myopic hater"?

Dont worry about the ad hom attacks. Its par for the course. :hug:

X-Terminator
04-01-2012, 12:19 PM
Oh HELL NO. I am NOT dealing with this shit again.

Arians is gone, Haley is here. The end. Arguing about what may or may not happened with Arians' dismissal is tedious, redundant and pointless.

And thank you very much to the OP for re-opening this can of worms again. :doh2:

zulater
04-01-2012, 12:34 PM
Oh HELL NO. I am NOT dealing with this shit again.

Arians is gone, Haley is here. The end. Arguing about what may or may not happened with Arians' dismissal is tedious, redundant and pointless.



And thank you very much to the OP for re-opening this can of worms again. :doh2:

I sense a lockdown coming? :chuckle:

ShutDown24
04-01-2012, 12:55 PM
Oh HELL NO. I am NOT dealing with this shit again.

This actually made me laugh out loud.

fansince'76
04-01-2012, 12:58 PM
And thank you very much to the OP for re-opening this can of worms again. :doh2:

Seems to me it's Bouchette who won't let it go (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/on-the-steelers-the-games-never-stop-629390/?p=0). Big surprise there.

Shoes
04-01-2012, 01:19 PM
I like bouchette and the harbaugh brothers about the same. :chuckle:

Bluecoat96
04-01-2012, 03:20 PM
Seems to me it's Bouchette who won't let it go (http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/on-the-steelers-the-games-never-stop-629390/?p=0). Big surprise there.

Ahh....speculative journalism. I guess it's what sells now.

BigNastyDefense
04-01-2012, 04:11 PM
Does it really matter who made the decision on Arians? No, it doesn't. Last time I checked, the name signed to the paychecks that the coaches and players get says ROONEY. If Art and/or Dan decide that they feel a coach isn't worth their money, it's their job to step in and make the change. As long as Rooney doesn't have a direct line to the sidelines to call plays like Al Davis did in Oakland, I will trust them. They know more about this business than any of us fans believe we do.

Maybe Tomlin did make the decision, and Rooney chose to take the "heat" for it so Tomlin could focus on finding a replacement. I believe it was Tomlin that did indeed make the hire of Haley, and that's the more important part, that in the end Tomlin had the say in who came in.

suitanim
04-02-2012, 05:42 AM
I have questioned several decicions the FO has made over the years, namely the decision to "go cheap" on the OL, but several others as well. The problem is, at least when something was released from the FO I took it at it's printed word as truth. After 30 years, I'm not able to do that anymore, and it IS NOT JUST ABOUT ARIANS. That was just one of the symptoms of this new disease...

Hey, if people are okay with it, and think that the new paradigm is fine, that's superdy-duper. I'm not, and I'm gonna call 'em out on it when I see it. They will make some more boneheaded decisions, as every FO no matter how good and professional does, but they dropped a notch in my book after the way they've handled a couple things this last few months. I still, however, think they are about as good as it gets in this business...but it's a dirty business.

I'm going to say one LAST thing about Arians. He's gone. I realize that Rooney didn't necessarily hate the way the guy ran the offense, but it's his team and he wanted a change. I'm fine with it. I hope Haley is as good as advertised, as well, because I want the Steelers firing on all cylinders. I am NOT ruing the decision. I defended him because he was an easy target for the less astute, and Haley will be as well. I suspect I will also find myself defending Haley soon, too. NONE of that changes what I perceive to be some changes (for the worse) in the FO. Maybe they aren't permanent. Who knows? But for people to wrongly and obtusely keep misinterpretting what I'm saying as having anything to do with Arians actually being gone, this is a crystal clear explanation of how and why that is exactly what I am NOT doing.

Dino 6 Rings
04-02-2012, 12:37 PM
Tomlin: "We anticipate the coaches being back"

later conversation with Junior Rooney...

Rooney "Tough season coach...whatcha thinking"

Tomlin "It is what it is"

Rooney "How do you feel about coaching changes"

Tomlin "Well...I need to review the film for the year, and situational football game by game"

Rooney "Ok, well you know how I feel on the issue for offense"

Tomlin "Yeah...I know...I'll call ya back later Boss"

later

Tomlin "Hey Boss, reviewed the tape, even though our defense let us down in a big game, I think if we would have scored more points early on we may have been able to do better with our pressure situations not having to focus on the run"

Rooney "um...ok...you want to let Bruce go"

Tomlin "I'm just saying...if we would have been more productive in the red zone in some key games and also been able to get some key first downs late in games our season's results may have been different"

Rooney "ok, so you want to let Bruce go"

Tomlin "Not saying that, but he has considered retiring and we need someone that we can count on going forward being here for a long term and that will take suggestions like running the ball more or creating a game plan that is more effective in situational football spots"

Rooney "Ok, so you want to let Bruce go!"

Tomlin "Sure Boss...you can say that..."

Rooney "AWESOME!"

Rooney to the Press "Bruce has retired!"

Bruce "WTF? I Did?"

Colts "Hey we need an OC! Bruce want a job?"

Bruce "Sure, I'll take a job"

Rooney "We are letting Tomlin hire the OC"

Tomlin "Haley is on the market and he is a good Offensive Mind"

Rooney "So you want to hire Haley?"

Tomlin "not this again...YES, HIRE HALEY"

Rooney "Haley is our new OC!"

Tomlin "good, and I'm pretty sure this is all on me since you're the boss"

Rooney "I'm the Boss! Yeah! Yeah for me!"

Ben "Who is Todd Haley? He the guy at the sub shop?"

Dick L "No Ben, he's the guy that shredded our defense in the Super Bowl that you had to pull a miracle out of your arse to win"

Ben "Oh, that was Haley! He sure was fast on that slant pass"

Dick L "No Ben...that was Larry Fitzgerald. Haley was the coach"

Ben "I thought Wiz was the coach"

Dick, "Heavy Sigh"
Tomlin "Let it go Dick"
Ben "Hey coach. I got married last year"

Ward "Hey I retired too...don't be giving away my number!"
Bettis "fat chance Hines, you were a WR and Swann and Stallworth both had their Jersies on other guys backs"
Ward "Dang it..."