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Bluecoat96
03-07-2012, 06:56 PM
Ben hoping he is just entering his prime

Quarterback Ben Roethlisbergerhttp://www.steelers.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/ben-roethlisberger/54dda34e-9e43-4c57-9397-1143ddced5d6/) has led the Steelers to two Super Bowl wins during his eight year career and after recently turning 30-years old he hopes there are more to come.

“I am hoping that I am just starting to get into the prime of my career,” said Roethlisberger.

Roethlisberger is excited about the wealth of talent returning on offense for the Steelers and what the future holds.

“I think we have the potential on offense to be so good,” said Roethlisberger. “We are young and very talented.”

Roethlisberger recently talked about a multitude of topics, including how long he thinks he will play, his meeting with Steelers President Art Rooney II and his conversation with new offensive coordinator Todd Haley.



http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Ben-hoping-he-is-just-entering-his-prime/8724f6eb-1212-4f5f-80d3-40347699faad

GBMelBlount
03-07-2012, 07:27 PM
I think Ben is past his prime. Sorry to say. Best chance he has is if we have some significant upgrades on the Offensive Line.

Count Steeler
03-07-2012, 07:48 PM
The window is about 4-5 years. Hope we haven't capped ourselves out of a SB.

We really need a solid draft this year.

SteelGhost
03-07-2012, 07:54 PM
He needs "some" help .... OL help :chuckle:

zulater
03-07-2012, 07:59 PM
I think Ben is past his prime. Sorry to say. Best chance he has is if we have some significant upgrades on the Offensive Line.

Based on what? Prior to the high ankle sprain he was probably playing the best he ever has in his career. In fact in my opinion he absolutely was.

SteelerEmpire
03-07-2012, 08:04 PM
Time to go for Dynasty status. Ben still needs 3 SB wins to get to his goal of 5.

GBMelBlount
03-07-2012, 09:56 PM
Based on what? Prior to the high ankle sprain he was probably playing the best he ever has in his career. In fact in my opinion he absolutely was.

I think Ben's countles injuries and playing him while injured last season (and other times) will take an early toll on him.

polamalubeast
03-07-2012, 10:02 PM
The QB have very often their best years from the age of 30 years old......Brady, Brees, Eli, etc.

I'm not worried about Ben .... In fact I am very confident

zulater
03-07-2012, 10:10 PM
I think Ben's countles injuries and playing him while injured last season (and other times) will take an early toll on him.

You said you fear he's past his prime. Well prior to his high ankle sprain he was playing at as high of level as he ever has in his career. So are you saying that the high ankle sprain is the beggining of the end for Ben?

GBMelBlount
03-07-2012, 10:17 PM
You said you fear he's past his prime. Well prior to his high ankle sprain he was playing at as high of level as he ever has in his career. So are you saying that the high ankle sprain is the beggining of the end for Ben?

Yes, that is my opinion. His list of injuries is numerous and he has been played too often while injured imo.

In fact, weren't you one of those who suggested they play him "balls to the wall" while still injured if he was technically cleared to play?

zulater
03-07-2012, 10:25 PM
Yes, that is my opinion. His list of injuries is numersous and he has been played too often while injured imo.

In fact, weren't you one of those who suggested they play him balls to the wall if he was still injured if cleared to play?

I don't think so, in fact I think I pretty much endorsed the idea of sitting him out until the playoffs. But what of it anyway? A high ankle sprain isn't generally considered a career changing injury for a quarterback. In fact I can't think of one prominent qb who's career was significantly altered by that injury?

He'll be fine. 100% recovered by training camp. Yes it would be nice if he'd take less hits in the future. Hopefully that's the tweak Rooney is looking for. But regardless, Ben hasn't even begun his descent yet.

GBMelBlount
03-07-2012, 10:30 PM
I don't think so, in fact I think I pretty much endorsed the idea of sitting him out until the playoffs. But what of it anyway?

A high ankle sprain isn't generally considered a career changing injury for a quarterback. In fact I can't think of one prominent qb who's career was significantly altered by that injury? He'll be fine. 100% recovered by training camp. Yes it would be nice if he'd take less hits in the future. Hopefully that's the tweak Rooney is looking for. But regardless, Ben hasn't even begun his descent yet.

I am not stating my opinion based solely on one injury. It is the numerous injuries over the course of his career including his face plant into the car windshield.

He has been injured more often and far more seriously than most quarterbacks who peak after 30.

Do you disagree?

ShutDown24
03-07-2012, 11:36 PM
I think Ben's countles injuries and playing him while injured last season (and other times) will take an early toll on him.

I could buy this. I don't think that will be the case, but there is definitely concern. They really need to get him involved in a stricter conditioning program to begin with.

Count Steeler
03-08-2012, 05:15 AM
I don't think so, in fact I think I pretty much endorsed the idea of sitting him out until the playoffs. But what of it anyway? A high ankle sprain isn't generally considered a career changing injury for a quarterback. In fact I can't think of one prominent qb who's career was significantly altered by that injury?

He'll be fine. 100% recovered by training camp. Yes it would be nice if he'd take less hits in the future. Hopefully that's the tweak Rooney is looking for. But regardless, Ben hasn't even begun his descent yet.

As far as Ben being 100% even now, don't forget his foot will need surgery at some point. As I'm sure you know (because we are about the same age), as we get older the body does not recover as quickly.

Ben hasn't just taken beatings, he has been pummeled at times because of our turnstile O line that could not be improved over the last few years, even though we drafted and brought in bodies. Maybe Colbert just doesn't have the eye for O linemen. Gilbert and Pouncey are his exceptions to the rest of his picks.

suitanim
03-08-2012, 05:16 AM
This is the period of a QB's career where it's all come together, and they start placing experience over athleticism and taking chances. If Ben stays healthy, he should have a VERY productive 5 years ahead of him.

GBMelBlount
03-08-2012, 06:58 AM
As far as Ben being 100% even now, don't forget his foot will need surgery at some point. As I'm sure you know (because we are about the same age), as we get older the body does not recover as quickly.

Ben hasn't just taken beatings, he has been pummeled at times because of our turnstile O line that could not be improved over the last few years, even though we drafted and brought in bodies.

Maybe Colbert just doesn't have the eye for O linemen. Gilbert and Pouncey are his exceptions to the rest of his picks.

Urbik turned out pretty good too...:grin:

Bluecoat96
03-08-2012, 07:18 AM
As far as Ben being 100% even now, don't forget his foot will need surgery at some point. As I'm sure you know (because we are about the same age), as we get older the body does not recover as quickly.

Ben hasn't just taken beatings, he has been pummeled at times because of our turnstile O line that could not be improved over the last few years, even though we drafted and brought in bodies. Maybe Colbert just doesn't have the eye for O linemen. Gilbert and Pouncey are his exceptions to the rest of his picks.

Is it a definite yes for surgery in all cases pertaining to a high ankle sprain? I know Gronkowski and Pouncey both had surgery, but not Ben. I would think that the medical staff would have recommended he get the surgery if that was the case.

Of course...after posting this I realized that I need to work on my reading comprehension skills. You said FOOT and not ANKLE. Geez....and I'm a teacher.

zulater
03-08-2012, 09:57 AM
I am not stating my opinion based solely on one injury. It is the numerous injuries over the course of his career including his face plant into the car windshield.

He has been injured more often and far more seriously than most quarterbacks who peak after 30.

Do you disagree?

Considering Ben missed a total of one start due to injury from week 2 of the 2006 season until week 16 of the 2011 season I would absolutely disagree. Sure he's been beat up a bit, but in case you missed it, Ben's a pretty big fellow, and handles "minor" injuries with relative ease.

.Based solely on the level of his play prior to his high ankle sprain as opposed to blind speculation, I saw no indication of decline in Ben's game. In fact I would I would say the opposite was in evidence and Ben's game is clearly ascending.

Now maybe Ben's not going to make it past 35 in this league. But to suggest that there's any immediate cause for concern, that the next 3 or 4 seasons shouldn't be as good or better than the past eight, I see as nothing more than a Chicken Little attitude.

fansince'76
03-08-2012, 10:18 AM
Now maybe Ben's not going to make it past 35 in this league. But to suggest that there's any immediate cause for concern, that the next 3 or 4 seasons shouldn't be as good or better than the past eight, I see as nothing more than a Chicken Little attitude.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO04VXBIS0M

:chuckle:

tube517
03-08-2012, 11:48 AM
http://img2.embroiderydesigns.com/StockDesign/Large/Needle_Passion_Embroidery/dramaqueen1.jpg :chuckle:

GBMelBlount
03-08-2012, 12:11 PM
Considering Ben missed a total of one start due to injury from week 2 of the 2006 season until week 16 of the 2011 season I would absolutely disagree. Sure he's been beat up a bit, but in case you missed it, Ben's a pretty big fellow, and handles "minor" injuries with relative ease.

Based solely on the level of his play prior to his high ankle sprain as opposed to blind speculation, I saw no indication of decline in Ben's game. In fact I would I would say the opposite was in evidence and Ben's game is clearly ascending.

Now maybe Ben's not going to make it past 35 in this league.

But to suggest that there's any immediate cause for concern, that the next 3 or 4 seasons shouldn't be as good or better than the past eight, I see as nothing more than a Chicken Little attitude.

Go back and reread my first post.

I just stated a simple opinion. Then when you continued to push me I made a further point.

I enjoy a good debate but there is no need to be a deek or drama queen about this Zulater.

Take a deep breath. It will be OK. *shrug*

zulater
03-08-2012, 12:28 PM
Go back and reread my first post.

I just stated a simple opinion. Then when you continued to push me I made a further point.

I enjoy a good debate but there is no need to be a deek or drama queen about this Zulater.

Take a deep breath. It will be OK. *shrug*

You said "I think Ben is past his prime ". I strongly disagree. I don't see a single piece of evidence that supports your expressed opinion. If refuting your opinion with facts makes me a dick or drama queen so be it. :coffee:

X-Terminator
03-08-2012, 12:34 PM
Go back and reread my first post.

I just stated a simple opinion. Then when you continued to push me I made a further point.

I enjoy a good debate but there is no need to be a deek or drama queen about this Zulater.

Take a deep breath. It will be OK. *shrug*

Sorry, but it is a "Chicken Little" attitude to suddenly think Ben is past his prime. You can be concerned about the injuries taking a toll, but predicting a sharp decline in play this soon? Come on now.

Dino 6 Rings
03-08-2012, 12:58 PM
This is the period of a QB's career where it's all come together, and they start placing experience over athleticism and taking chances. If Ben stays healthy, he should have a VERY productive 5 years ahead of him.

I agree, I think we have 5 straight Playoff appearances left in him if he stays healthy and with that will come more shots at the SB Trophy we know is ours.

zulater
03-08-2012, 10:19 PM
Yes, that is my opinion. His list of injuries is numerous and he has been played too often while injured imo.

In fact, weren't you one of those who suggested they play him "balls to the wall" while still injured if he was technically cleared to play?

http://www.steelersuniverse.com/forums/showthread.php/11189-Will-Roethlisberger-rest-before-the-playoffs


no, 10th post down

then again post 33



Here's the question that I would ask. If Ben keeps playing will he ever get close to full health, and would Ben at 75% be good enough to win in the playoffs against teams like the Ravens and Patriots? I mean we saw how hobbled he was against the Browns. He had trouble making some handoffs, and couldn't step into many of his throws. That might work in the short term, but can you beat elite teams with Ben playing at a significantly diminished capacity?

So here's my premise. Say sitting Ben out the next 3 games makes him 95% healthy for the wildcard game. Does anyone really think the Steelers couldn't handle the Texans down to their 3rd string qb, or the Tebows out in Denver with a healthy Ben.

So now you win that game, and take momentum and a healthy Ben into Baltimore or New England. I like our chances.

So yes Ben can probably play the next couple weeks. But if he does will he ever come close to being healthy for the playoffs?

I really think that's where the focus should be.

Steeldude
03-08-2012, 10:55 PM
Is BR really any different than his first two seasons? Has there been any growth in terms of skill and reduction of bad habits?

zulater
03-08-2012, 11:29 PM
Is BR really any different than his first two seasons? Has there been any growth in terms of skill and reduction of bad habits?



Reduction of bad habits? Maybe not, certainly not as much as you would like. But in terms of growth of skills, I think he's significantly improved. He's much better getting the ball out in time, recognizing defenses, getting to second and third reads.

I've still got most of the 2004 and 05 season on tape, he's a much better quarterback now than then. I just wish he had that offensive line.

ShutDown24
03-09-2012, 12:41 AM
Ben is much improved from his first few seasons. Not only improved, but he's a totally different player. He's shed a few bad habits but created more in the process. But overall, he's really a much better quarterback.

I think everyone is being a little too harsh on GBMelBlount's original post. He said Ben is "past his prime" not "Ben is going to suck from here on out". I'd tend to agree. 30 isn't old for a quarterback, but it's certainly a traditional indication of a career winding down. I'd have to say that Ben's "prime" was age 25 - 28.

That doesn't mean he won't win another three Super Bowls, but it does mean things need to change a little. I LOVE the way Ben plays. He is my favorite player of all time and I have a very elevated view of him on the all-time quarterback list. But he needs to be more conscious of his body. Everything from conditioning, diet, and play-style needs to be altered for this latter portion of his career. And I'm not saying he has to become Mr. Dink & Dunk - but he needs to cut back on contact. Nor am I saying he needs to lose 60 pounds and become Sam Bradford, far from it - but he needs to work his body to a point where it can take a hit a little better. Being big is great, but being too big really increases the potential for injury.

I think if these things are accomplished, even at a small degree, Ben has another 8 good years left in him. However, I don't think saying he is past his prime is a false statement.

Count Steeler
03-09-2012, 05:04 AM
Ben is at the point in his career where his experience and guile has to take over sheer physical performance. He has used his body to extend plays and get the offense moving. He has to start taking what the defense gives him and not get hit so often.

At 30, his body is past its prime. At 30, his experience should give him the edge to be spectacular for the next 4-5 years.

ShutDown24
03-09-2012, 05:09 AM
Ben is at the point in his career where his experience and guile has to take over sheer physical performance. He has used his body to extend plays and get the offense moving. He has to start taking what the defense gives him and not get hit so often.

At 30, his body is past its prime. At 30, his experience should give him the edge to be spectacular for the next 4-5 years.

Couldn't agree more.

zulater
03-09-2012, 05:31 AM
Ben is much improved from his first few seasons. Not only improved, but he's a totally different player. He's shed a few bad habits but created more in the process. But overall, he's really a much better quarterback.

I think everyone is being a little too harsh on GBMelBlount's original post. He said Ben is "past his prime" not "Ben is going to suck from here on out". I'd tend to agree. 30 isn't old for a quarterback, but it's certainly a traditional indication of a career winding down. I'd have to say that Ben's "prime" was age 25 - 28.

That doesn't mean he won't win another three Super Bowls, but it does mean things need to change a little. I LOVE the way Ben plays. He is my favorite player of all time and I have a very elevated view of him on the all-time quarterback list. But he needs to be more conscious of his body. Everything from conditioning, diet, and play-style needs to be altered for this latter portion of his career. And I'm not saying he has to become Mr. Dink & Dunk - but he needs to cut back on contact. Nor am I saying he needs to lose 60 pounds and become Sam Bradford, far from it - but he needs to work his body to a point where it can take a hit a little better. Being big is great, but being too big really increases the potential for injury.

I think if these things are accomplished, even at a small degree, Ben has another 8 good years left in him. However, I don't think saying he is past his prime is a false statement.

Your post is well thought out and presented, but I still have yet to see any evidence on the playing field that would suggest Ben is past his prime. Yeah he took a terrible hit that resulted in a debilitating high ankle sprain, but I contend that same hit would have resulted in the same injury at any point of his career. I've rewatched every game from this past season at least twice. ( it's my slow season, I've got too much time on my hands :chuckle:) In the games prior to his injury I can't think of one single play where I reflected afterwards that a young Ben would have done that better in any way. ie. Oh gee he didn't shed that tackle like he used to, didn't get that ball to a spot he would have done in the past etc... In fact just the opposite was true. I saw numerous examples this season of plays Ben wouldn't have been able to make in prior seasons. My contention is the brain is finally almost fully caught up with the body.


I understand the law of diminishing returns. I also understand that 30 can be that age where your body starts needing more time to recover. So yes I'm all for Ben reigning in some of the undisciplined play that's been a staple of his play since he's come in the league. To help accomplish this the Steelers changed offensive coordinators to "tweak" Ben's game. A decision I understand and support, even though I do believe Arians was more than competent in his job.

Bottom line, Ben isn't "past his prime" by any definition I know. He may have peaked physically, but he hasn't shown the slightest evidence yet of decline in any of the necessary skills to play quarterback in the NFL. I think Ben is quite accurate to feel that he is just entering his prime.

.

ShutDown24
03-09-2012, 05:43 AM
Your post is well thought out and presented

Thank you for that, first of all.

But I don't think it was as well presented as it could have been due to the fact that I agree with you:


Bottom line, Ben isn't "past his prime" by any definition I know. He may have peaked physically, but he hasn't shown the slightest evidence yet of decline in any of the necessary skills to play quarterback in the NFL. I think Ben is quite accurate to feel that he is just entering his prime.

My point was strictly regarding his physical status. He may very well come out and produce the best play of his career this upcoming season. But from the standpoint of an athlete, I believe he is past his prime. So I agree with your response, I'm sorry if the distinction wasn't evident in my prior post.

zulater
03-09-2012, 05:45 AM
Thank you for that, first of all.

But I don't think it was as well presented as it could have been due to the fact that I agree with you:



My point was strictly regarding his physical status. He may very well come out and produce the best play of his career this upcoming season. But from the standpoint of an athlete, I believe he is past his prime. So I agree with your response, I'm sorry if the distinction wasn't evident in my prior post.

We're splitting hairs, don't worry about it. :lol:

suitanim
03-09-2012, 09:50 AM
First off, I'm not sure how there are any other ways to say this (and it still doesn't seem to sink in), but those "bad habits" of Bens have ALWAYS BEEN THERE!

He's always been a gunslinger. The only difference I see now is that instead of taking off and running he may stay behind the LOS a little longer looking to extend the play with his arm instead of his feet. He's always taken risks, and he's always moved around, and he's never thrown the ball away, and that stuff just isn't going to change. So this talk of Haley coming in and somehow bending BR to his will and making him change just isn't going to ever happen.

As far as the physical stuff, Favre didn't even start working out in the off-season until he was like 35, and he still had some good years after that. He's another guy that was tough, took a beating, and barely missed a game. Some people are just freaks of nature with their ability to take a hit and recover from injury, and Ben seems to be one of them. I expect him to play at an elite level for another 5 years, and if he played another 5 after that, he WOULD have to change some aspect of his game, but he'd probably be one of the better QB's in the league even still.

zulater
03-09-2012, 10:03 AM
First off, I'm not sure how there are any other ways to say this (and it still doesn't seem to sink in), but those "bad habits" of Bens have ALWAYS BEEN THERE!

He's always been a gunslinger. The only difference I see now is that instead of taking off and running he may stay behind the LOS a little longer looking to extend the play with his arm instead of his feet. He's always taken risks, and he's always moved around, and he's never thrown the ball away, and that stuff just isn't going to change. So this talk of Haley coming in and somehow bending BR to his will and making him change just isn't going to ever happen.

As far as the physical stuff, Favre didn't even start working out in the off-season until he was like 35, and he still had some good years after that. He's another guy that was tough, took a beating, and barely missed a game. Some people are just freaks of nature with their ability to take a hit and recover from injury, and Ben seems to be one of them. I expect him to play at an elite level for another 5 years, and if he played another 5 after that, he WOULD have to change some aspect of his game, but he'd probably be one of the better QB's in the league even still.

There's been several games where it seemed to me that Ben made a concerted effort to get the ball out quicker and take advantage of the underneath routes. I think we need to see more of that, that is unless the offensive line gets more consistent in pass protection.

Also there's a fine line between taking risks and taking acceptable risks, and knowing when the time for both is. That's something that needs to be more defined to Ben. I think Ben had gotten a little above it all, in the sense that he often seemed to operate without a sense of situational awareness, or at least to the point that an elite quarterback should have. .

suitanim
03-09-2012, 11:45 AM
That stuff was Ben refining his game. He'll continue to as he gets older and the physical advantages wither a bit. It wasn't coached out of him, and his gunslinger mentality won't be either. If he has a better line, it COULD just end up that he spends 9 seconds scrambling around instead of 7.

zulater
03-09-2012, 12:13 PM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FavrBr00.htm

I don't know, but if you do a little research on Brett Favre, you'll see with him at a similar age to what Ben is now, his rate of getting sacked dropped nearly in half. Chidi has attributed this drop at least in part to a member of the Packers coaching staff who came on board at that time. So I do think there is something to teaching an old dog new tricks. Or at least there may be a chance if you bring in the right trainer, or in this case coach.

Steeldude
03-09-2012, 12:38 PM
With Arians out of the picture I feel the amount of pressure BR gets or the amount of times BR needs to scramble will be reduced. The reason I say this is I believe Haley will employ short and quick passing routes to help the O-line and BR. I am hoping Haley uses his players for what they do best.

ShutDown24
03-09-2012, 12:41 PM
With Arians out of the picture I feel the amount of pressure BR gets or the amount of times BR needs to scramble will be reduced. The reason I say this is I believe Haley will employ short and quick passing routes to help the O-line and BR. I am hoping Haley uses his players for what they do best.

If you're hoping that we're still going to be throwing deep a large portion of the time.

suitanim
03-09-2012, 02:45 PM
Reminding me again why I emply the ignore feature.

Moose
03-09-2012, 05:47 PM
The OFFENSIVE line determines his 'prime'. If the F.O. doesn't beef the line up then Ben's 'prime' ( concussions ) has come and gone.

SteelGhost
03-09-2012, 06:40 PM
The OFFENSIVE line determines his 'prime'. If the F.O. doesn't beef the line up then Ben's 'prime' ( concussions ) has come and gone.

QFT, if the beating goes on, it's doubtful he lasts 5 more years playing at a high level.

GBMelBlount
03-09-2012, 08:09 PM
The OFFENSIVE line determines his 'prime'. If the F.O. doesn't beef the line up then Ben's 'prime' ( concussions ) has come and gone.

That is what I am hoping for as well....Ben getting the type of offensive line an elite quarterback needs and deserves.

There are a lot of variables that may change. The quality of the line, the quality of the receivers, Ben's maturity, the play calling, a new offensive coach, Ben's training regimen, Ben may get his leg snapped like a twig on a freak play, losing his mojo through marriage or it may settle him down and take him to the next level...the possibilities are endless.

I am certainly hoping for the best but it is impossible to predict one's future for sure.

Count Steeler
03-09-2012, 08:41 PM
If Ben is given time, he will rip ANY defense a new one. Especially with the WRs at his disposal. Hopefully Wallace sticks around and we carry on to another SB run. Or 2.

ShutDown24
03-11-2012, 08:21 AM
If Ben is given time, he will rip ANY defense a new one. Especially with the WRs at his disposal. Hopefully Wallace sticks around and we carry on to another SB run. Or 2.

If the Steelers get their hands on a good guard in the draft, that could be enough to greatly improve the line. Glenn, Zeitler or Silatolu (assuming they pan out) plugged into LG would greatly increase Ben's time in the pocket. If Colon stayed healthy at RT and the coaching staff played the hot hand at RG, the line could be great. Gilbert/Silatolu/Pouncey/Foster/Colon would be an above average line in my opinion. I really hope the team gets a hold of a decent guard. Or tackle - then move Colon to guard.

GBMelBlount
03-11-2012, 08:41 AM
If the Steelers get their hands on a good guard in the draft, that could be enough to greatly improve the line. Glenn, Zeitler or Silatolu (assuming they pan out) plugged into LG would greatly increase Ben's time in the pocket.

If Colon stayed healthy at RT and the coaching staff played the hot hand at RG, the line could be great. Gilbert/Silatolu/Pouncey/Foster/Colon would be an above average line in my opinion.

I really hope the team gets a hold of a decent guard. Or tackle - then move Colon to guard.

I am praying so. I really think the offensivle line may be the key to the next super bowl run.

It just seems like we have some unfortunate luck between injuries, players not panning out and even trading Urbik.

Regardless, I am truly excited about the thought of having our first good line in years.

It can improve the run game, pass game, hopefully keep Ben off his back and take us deep into the playoffs...