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polamalubeast
02-29-2012, 11:04 AM
There's a growing sense that the Cleveland Browns should trade up and draft Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III. I'm here to tell you that the Browns must do it.

If they want an offensive playmaker. If they want a face for the franchise. If they eventually want to win a Super Bowl.

There are arguments against Cleveland giving up a handful of valuable picks for the Heisman Trophy winner. For each one, I will give you a convincing rebuttal on why RG3 is the Browns' only option at quarterback, from that golden arm to those priceless Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles socks.

RG3 is more athletic than most NFL quarterbacks and he's faster than most running backs. His wit is extremely quick as well. "I hope somebody falls in love with me, other than my fiancee," he said when asked about the Browns possibly trading up to No. 2 to get him.

Let the Miami Dolphins sign Matt Flynn. Let another team panic and draft Ryan Tannehill in the top 10. Griffin is different than both of those quarterbacks. He's special. He has that "it" factor that turned around the Baylor football program and figures prominently in any NFL reclamation project.

I know Flynn threw for 480 yards and six touchdowns in one game last season and Tannehill is a better fit for the West Coast offense. But RG3 brings charisma, excitement and plenty of crazy socks (yes, even Hello Kitty ones). He'll not only be the face of the franchise. He'll be the mouthpiece, too.

read more

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/43196/no-decision-browns-must-trade-up-for-rg3

suitanim
02-29-2012, 11:07 AM
Are the Browns going to switch offenses then? Are they going to run some kind of spread or read/option offense instead of the WCO?

zulater
02-29-2012, 12:43 PM
I really miss James Walker doing the AFC North blog. Hensley is a big headed, Raven loving, knob gobbler. http://assets.espn.go.com/i/columnists/hensley_jamison_m.jpg His opinion on all four AFC North teams is ill informed and slanted.

Craic
02-29-2012, 12:44 PM
IMO,

The browns need to stop wasting draft picks on one shot fixes and build their team over a period of time. Of course that takes patience and with all the coaching turnover, QB turnover, etc., patience seems to be the one thing they don't have.

86WARD
02-29-2012, 02:31 PM
This article is partially retarded...

suitanim
02-29-2012, 03:54 PM
IMO,

The browns need to stop wasting draft picks on one shot fixes and build their team over a period of time. Of course that takes patience and with all the coaching turnover, QB turnover, etc., patience seems to be the one thing they don't have.

Actually, that trend has abated a bit under Heckert.

st33lersguy
02-29-2012, 04:00 PM
If Cleveland drafts him, the ineptitude of the Browns will ensure that he will have a poor career in Cleveland.

ShutDown24
03-07-2012, 05:23 AM
The browns need to stop wasting draft picks on one shot fixes and build their team over a period of time. Of course that takes patience and with all the coaching turnover, QB turnover, etc., patience seems to be the one thing they don't have.


If Cleveland drafts him, the ineptitude of the Browns will ensure that he will have a poor career in Cleveland.

I completely agree with both of these statements.

Colt McCoy is a good enough quarterback to build the foundation of a team around. They added some very good pieces to the puzzle last year and should continue doing so for a few more seasons before throwing another young quarterback to the wolves. McCoy probably won't win you the AFC North, but neither will Griffin if you keep wasting picks on players who will have no supporting cast.

Also, the Browns need to stop firing good coaches. Romeo Crennel and Eric Mangini are quality guys. Pat Shurmur had a rough first season in the standings, but please let someone execute a five year plan at head coach.

I think hiring Mike Holmgren to run all football operations was a large mistake. Pun intended.

suitanim
03-07-2012, 05:38 AM
If I was in charge, I'd keep McCoy and make a play for Manning. Let him learn at the masters knee...

Chidi29
03-07-2012, 10:39 AM
Are the Browns going to switch offenses then? Are they going to run some kind of spread or read/option offense instead of the WCO?

Why can't they run the WCO with Griffin? He would fit well to me. Part of the WCO is built around rollouts and moving the pocket, perfect for a mobile guy like Griffin.

suitanim
03-07-2012, 11:55 AM
Why can't they run the WCO with Griffin? He would fit well to me. Part of the WCO is built around rollouts and moving the pocket, perfect for a mobile guy like Griffin.That's asking a lot. The guy has to learn how to play under center AND how to run the WCO? In his first year?

Disaster.

Chidi29
03-07-2012, 11:57 AM
That's asking a lot. The guy has to learn how to play under center AND how to run the WCO? In his first year?

Disaster.

He's going to have to learn to play under center and a new offense no matter where he goes.

suitanim
03-07-2012, 01:12 PM
He's going to have to learn to play under center and a new offense no matter where he goes.

But the WCO requires incredible timing and accuracy. It's a lot to lump onto any kid coming out of college, regardless of skills and his football IQ.

Sorry, I'm seeing more of a change in the playbook to fit the player rather than changing the player to fit the playbook.

Devilsdancefloor
03-07-2012, 02:16 PM
This is Cleveland no matter what they do in the long run it will fail

Chidi29
03-07-2012, 02:31 PM
But the WCO requires incredible timing and accuracy. It's a lot to lump onto any kid coming out of college, regardless of skills and his football IQ.

Sorry, I'm seeing more of a change in the playbook to fit the player rather than changing the player to fit the playbook.

Griffin appears to be very accurate on the run so he suits it well. Yes, it's a learning curve but obviously someone is going to have to do it. And it's been done before considering the WCO still exists.

ShutDown24
03-07-2012, 02:53 PM
That's asking a lot. The guy has to learn how to play under center AND how to run the WCO? In his first year?

Disaster.

I feel like learning to play under center isn't as difficult as everyone makes it out to be; for players who already have good footwork. Griffin is a little shifty with his footwork which confused me at first. I was under the impression it was poor. But the more I watched him the more I started to understand that it isn't bad, he just has amazig quickess with his feet - which makes it look really commical when your focusing on it. But it's effective. If you have your footwork down the prior step in the process is learning how to drop back. Let's be honest here, walking backwards sideways isn't all that difficult a task. Now, going through progressions while doing so requires some practice, but it isn't rocket science. The first step, which I believe is the hardest to develop a feel for, is handling the snap from center. But, that comes with experience. The easiest way to make sure that transition goes smooth is just to focus. Really, the key to learning the entire process is simply practice reps + paying attention to what your doing. It doesn't take any kind of specific skill set to execute other than that. Focus on the ball until it's secured, then drop back while following progressions, set and throw. That's all there is to it. It's really not that big of a deal for an intelligent player.

That said, I agree with you that taking Griffin is a poor choice from a personnel standpoint. But at the same time if they really think he is their franchise guy, I guess I can't blame them. I think you have to do whatever it takes to get an elite quarterback if you want any chance to truly compete in this league.

Chidi29
03-07-2012, 03:19 PM
I feel like learning to play under center isn't as difficult as everyone makes it out to be; for players who already have good footwork. Griffin is a little shifty with his footwork which confused me at first. I was under the impression it was poor. But the more I watched him the more I started to understand that it isn't bad, he just has amazig quickess with his feet - which makes it look really commical when your focusing on it. But it's effective. If you have your footwork down the prior step in the process is learning how to drop back. Let's be honest here, walking backwards sideways isn't all that difficult a task. Now, going through progressions while doing so requires some practice, but it isn't rocket science. The first step, which I believe is the hardest to develop a feel for, is handling the snap from center. But, that comes with experience. The easiest way to make sure that transition goes smooth is just to focus. Really, the key to learning the entire process is simply practice reps + paying attention to what your doing. It doesn't take any kind of specific skill set to execute other than that. Focus on the ball until it's secured, then drop back while following progressions, set and throw. That's all there is to it. It's really not that big or a deal for an intelligent player.

That said, I agree with you that taking Griffin is a poor choice from a personnel standpoint. But at the same time if they really think he is their franchise guy, I guess I can't blame them. I think you have to do whatever it takes to get an elite quarterback if you want any chance to truly compete in this league.

It's certainly possible to overcome the learning curve but I think it's a bit steeper than what you're making it out to be. Being able to put all those things together at once is easier said than done. And most importantly, being able to do it quickly. I know that gets talked about a ton, the "speed of the game" but let me expand on that a little bit instead of finishing with the cliche.

For me, the biggest change is getting into your drop quickly. Something college kids in the spread don't have to do. They can spend their time making their reads and going through progressions. But in the NFL, you have to get away from center quickly. On a five step drop, your first two steps need to gain a lot of ground and they need to do so quickly. Because you don't want a guard stepping on your foot and ruining the play before it begins and obviously, the second you snap the ball the internal clock starts ticking. To be able to do that from muscle memory, teaching your body that, so you can go through your reads is difficult. Not impossible, clearly, but there's a learning curve to it. Gotta play fast.

suitanim
03-07-2012, 03:25 PM
That's my whole point. On a timing route, I have heard college QB after college QB exclaim "In college, that pick 6 I just threw was a TD the other way". Those 15 yard outs are KILLERS. It doesn't require accurate timing, it requires PRECISE timing. And that's a lot to ask any QB who wasn't brought up playing that way. I think RGIII is a great QB, but it makes more sense to adapt to him rather than make him adapt to you.

ShutDown24
03-07-2012, 03:39 PM
It's certainly possible to overcome the learning curve but I think it's a bit steeper than what you're making it out to be. Being able to put all those things together at once is easier said than done. And most importantly, being able to do it quickly. I know that gets talked about a ton, the "speed of the game" but let me expand on that a little bit instead of finishing with the cliche.

For me, the biggest change is getting into your drop quickly. Something college kids in the spread don't have to do. They can spend their time making their reads and going through progressions. But in the NFL, you have to get away from center quickly. On a five step drop, your first two steps need to gain a lot of ground and they need to do so quickly. Because you don't want a guard stepping on your foot and ruining the play before it begins and obviously, the second you snap the ball the internal clock starts ticking. To be able to do that from muscle memory, teaching your body that, so you can go through your reads is difficult. Not impossible, clearly, but there's a learning curve to it. Gotta play fast.

There is definitely a challenging aspect to it. I don't mean to make it sound like you can just step onto a pro field and do it immediately after playing in a spread most of your football life. But I think experience plays a greater deal in learning how to execute from under center than anything else. And experience is something that there is plenty of to go around in off-season practices and the preseason. In my opinion, there are much more difficult transitions a quarterback has to go through to successfully turn from college to pro. I feel like learning to play from under center is something that is overstated from the standpoint of evaluating a quarterback's worth. It's not a make-or-break point for me with a player. The way I see it, if a guy is smart enough and talented enough to pick up everything else that you're asking him to do, learning to drop back effectively isn't going to be the end of the world for him.

I guess my biggest point is that, in time, learning to play from under center comes naturally. It doesn't prove to be an issue with many guys who come out of college spreads who are otherwise successful pro quarterbacks.

suitanim
03-07-2012, 04:31 PM
It comes down to too much too fast:

"Ok, line up under center. OK take that snap, backpeddle 2 and a half steps, avoid any pass rush, read your frst two reads, then exactly 2.7 seconds after you took that snap, throw the ball to this exact spot 35 yards down and to your left".

Yeah. Easy.

Count Steeler
03-07-2012, 04:38 PM
The Browns should build the team around McCoy. 2 First rounders can go a long way in filling some holes. Stay the course and develop what they have. If they go after RGIII, the Rams will be the winner of any deal.

ShutDown24
03-07-2012, 05:16 PM
It comes down to too much too fast:

"Ok, line up under center. OK take that snap, backpeddle 2 and a half steps, avoid any pass rush, read your frst two reads, then exactly 2.7 seconds after you took that snap, throw the ball to this exact spot 35 yards down and to your left".

Yeah. Easy.

It's not easy. But in the grand scheme of things for a quarterback, I don't really think it's the hardest thing to accomplish. I believe too much is made of it. I could talk about this all day to be honest, I have a number of additional thoughts on the process. But I feel in the end there is just a slight difference of opinion. I think I have transitioning to playing under center lower on my list of concerns than you guys do, which is fine.

ALLD
03-07-2012, 05:48 PM
They said the same thing about Colt McCoy and then Brady Quinn before him. These guys should be selling soap on Madison Ave.

suitanim
03-08-2012, 05:10 AM
By all accounts, the WCO is an ofense it takes a few years to master. RGIII has no experience in it. Toss in the fact that every QB will tell you their first year is a blur, and there's a lot to overcome.

My point is, with a skillset like Griffin possesses, there's no shame in crafting an offense around what he can do and letting him grow with it, as opposed to adding to his transitional difficulties by forcing him into an existing one.

steeldawg
03-08-2012, 11:25 AM
The browns shouldnt even be looking at a qb they need rb's and wr's.

Chidi29
03-08-2012, 11:35 AM
By all accounts, the WCO is an ofense it takes a few years to master. RGIII has no experience in it. Toss in the fact that every QB will tell you their first year is a blur, and there's a lot to overcome.

My point is, with a skillset like Griffin possesses, there's no shame in crafting an offense around what he can do and letting him grow with it, as opposed to adding to his transitional difficulties by forcing him into an existing one.

No one says he has to start right away. If Griffin isn't ready, you still have McCoy.

We saw what guys like Cam Newton and Andy Dalton did last year as rookie QBs in a lockout where they didn't get any reps with their team until training camp. If they can survive, and thrive, under those circumstances, the WCO shouldn't be thought of as an impossible obstacle.

suitanim
03-08-2012, 11:38 AM
I disagree with that, as well. With the money these high first rouders are being paid, the days of sitting them are long gone. They are expected to come in and play right away, just as Dalton and Newton did.

ShutDown24
03-08-2012, 12:00 PM
I disagree with that, as well. With the money these high first rouders are being paid, the days of sitting them are long gone. They are expected to come in and play right away, just as Dalton and Newton did.

With the new CBA high round selections are actually making the least they have in a long time. The days of the Matt Ryan and Sam Bradford contracts are over, it's really not that expensive to invest in a first round quarterback anymore. This should also make it easier for franchises to recover from busts quicker.

suitanim
03-08-2012, 12:18 PM
It's still going to be in the 20-25 million range for a high first. Kids gotta play...Nobody is drafting RGIII or Andrew Luck to sit. That's why the Colts parted ways with Manning.

Chidi29
03-08-2012, 12:19 PM
I disagree with that, as well. With the money these high first rouders are being paid, the days of sitting them are long gone. They are expected to come in and play right away, just as Dalton and Newton did.

Rookie quarterbacks are typecasted into two categories. Either start them now or sit them for a few years.

The reality is there isn't a magical date when a rookie QB should play. It's a case by case basis depending on the rookie's ability to run the playbook and be comfortable in the offense. If that means waiting a year so he's as prepared as possible, then so be it. If that means to throw him into the starting lineup Week 1, that's fine with me too.

My point wasn't about when he should play anyway. My point was that you have two impressive rookie campaigns in the most difficult situation rookies would ever face. If they can thrive, so can RGIII in a year where there is no lockout.

suitanim
03-08-2012, 02:51 PM
I just look back at another QB who had all the skills and failed, Tim Couch. The Browns are a LITTLE farther along than they were in 99, as they actually have more than ZERO legitimate offensive lineman...but they also misused Couch badly.

Chidi29
03-08-2012, 03:31 PM
I just look back at another QB who had all the skills and failed, Tim Couch. The Browns are a LITTLE farther along than they were in 99, as they actually have more than ZERO legitimate offensive lineman...but they also misused Couch badly.

You're right but it's true for any rookie QB. They have to be used properly.

McCoy appeared to have been misused his rookie year. There's a prime example. Daboll verbally abused him.

suitanim
03-09-2012, 05:22 AM
McCoy seemed like he came along a bit in the WCO, though. If they draft RGIII they'll probably end up destroying two young QB's...

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-09-2012, 09:24 AM
Lets just say that hypothetically Manning goes to Miami, Flynn goes to Washington and Arizona decides to stay with Kolb. There will not be as many suitors for that #2 pick with St Louis and the Browns will most likely be the main player in trading up.

St Louis doesnt want the #2 pick, because they dont need RGIII, so that pick has the potential of going from a sellers market to more of a buyers market. Browns should and will get it done I believe. Colt McCoy vs a strong arm, Heisman winning QB that runs a 4.4 is a no brainer. I bet it gets done before the free agent frenzy.

suitanim
03-09-2012, 09:39 AM
Heckert said today there are a lot of scenarios where the Browns trade down for picks. That has worked well for them. Manning isn't going to the Redskins, and they (much more so than the Browns) have the history of throwing picks in the toilet to move up in the draft. I think Flynn goes to Cleveland.

I'm betting on the Washington Snyder's to win the RGIII contest.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-09-2012, 10:51 AM
Heckert said today there are a lot of scenarios where the Browns trade down for picks. That has worked well for them. Manning isn't going to the Redskins, and they (much more so than the Browns) have the history of throwing picks in the toilet to move up in the draft. I think Flynn goes to Cleveland.

I'm betting on the Washington Snyder's to win the RGIII contest.

That could definately happen.

I think the Rams have to make the deal soon, or after some QB's settle with other teams in free agency, they will lose some leverage. If the Browns, Dolphins, Cardinals, back out....then it leaves Washington with more leverage than they had with all the competition for RGIII

Chidi29
03-09-2012, 01:24 PM
The way I've always looked at it is that if you think Griffin is a franchise QB and you have question marks about McCoy (Which they probably do, no one is saying he's awful but he certainly isn't franchise either) then you go after the franchise QB. It's the most important piece. Just take a look at who the rest of your division has under center.

suitanim
03-09-2012, 02:40 PM
The reason they are looking so closely at Flynn is the system he can run. They are obviously putting all their proverbial eggs in the WCO offense. As with many other things in this free agency/draft, we will soon see...

ShutDown24
03-09-2012, 03:08 PM
The way I've always looked at it is that if you think Griffin is a franchise QB and you have question marks about McCoy (Which they probably do, no one is saying he's awful but he certainly isn't franchise either) then you go after the franchise QB. It's the most important piece. Just take a look at who the rest of your division has under center.

That's generally how I look at it as well. If you don't have that franchise guy in place you have to go after every opportunity you available to draft one. If the Browns like him that much, they should do everything in their power to get him.

However, if I'm the Browns I think I prefer to continue building the rest of the team and wait for some other year to go after my quarterback. I like Griffin, and I realize that makes my point seem rather contradictory. But I feel like using the high picks this year to improve the rest of the roster will make a tremendous impact on the core of players around the eventual franchise quarterback.

It's definitely debatable. I think Griffin can win in this league, but is he in that top 20% or so of quarterbacks that you need to win a championship? I don't know. And if I don't know - I don't think I sacrifice everything to acquire him.

Chidi29
03-09-2012, 06:05 PM
That's generally how I look at it as well. If you don't have that franchise guy in place you have to go after every opportunity you available to draft one. If the Browns like him that much, they should do everything in their power to get him.

However, if I'm the Browns I think I prefer to continue building the rest of the team and wait for some other year to go after my quarterback. I like Griffin, and I realize that makes my point seem rather contradictory. But I feel like using the high picks this year to improve the rest of the roster will make a tremendous impact on the core of players around the eventual franchise quarterback.

It's definitely debatable. I think Griffin can win in this league, but is he in that top 20% or so of quarterbacks that you need to win a championship? I don't know. And if I don't know - I don't think I sacrifice everything to acquire him.

You never know when you'll get the chance to draft a franchise QB though. You might not get the same opportunity next year. If you have the chance now, take it.

Count Steeler
03-09-2012, 06:41 PM
You never know when you'll get the chance to draft a franchise QB though. You might not get the same opportunity next year. If you have the chance now, take it.

I still don't buy the "sure bet" in the NFL. RGIII may look like the real deal, but the Pros is just at another level. He may end up being better than McCoy, but he may not. McCoy looks like he has potential and has already spent 2 years in the league. I would take a chance on McCoy and use my 2 1st round picks to shore up weaknesses on the rest of the team.

Heck, I don't even think Luck is a "sure bet", especially now that Indy has cleaned house. What is Arians going to coach next year?

Any bettors on Indy going 0-18?

Chidi29
03-09-2012, 07:03 PM
I still don't buy the "sure bet" in the NFL. RGIII may look like the real deal, but the Pros is just at another level. He may end up being better than McCoy, but he may not. McCoy looks like he has potential and has already spent 2 years in the league. I would take a chance on McCoy and use my 2 1st round picks to shore up weaknesses on the rest of the team.

Heck, I don't even think Luck is a "sure bet", especially now that Indy has cleaned house. What is Arians going to coach next year?

Any bettors on Indy going 0-18?

I didn't say he was a sure bet. It's implied that when you're talking about a draft prospect, certaintity does not exist. But if you think Griffin is the guy, from what you and your scouts think, then you go for it.

The picks you make to give McCoy a better supporting cast are no sure things either.

Count Steeler
03-09-2012, 07:05 PM
I didn't say he was a sure bet. It's implied that when you're talking about a draft prospect, certaintity does not exist. But if you think Griffin is the guy, from what you and your scouts think, then you go for it.

The picks you make to give McCoy a better supporting cast are no sure things either.

Agreed. It is very much an inexact science.

7willBheaven
03-09-2012, 09:53 PM
Looks like it doesnt matter as the Redskins and Rams have a agreement for the pick. 3 first rounders and a 2nd.

Chidi29
03-09-2012, 09:58 PM
Looks like it doesnt matter as the Redskins and Rams have a agreement for the pick. 3 first rounders and a 2nd.

Surprised the Rams made a deal this early but looking at what they got, they weren't getting anything better than that.

tube517
03-09-2012, 10:00 PM
http://tracking.si.com/2012/03/10/report-redskins-acquire-no-2-pick/


According to Jay Glazer, the Rams will also get two future first-rounders and other picks. If the agreement is indeed in place, the Rams will pick sixth in the 2012 draft.

st33lersguy
03-09-2012, 10:07 PM
Now it looks like McCoy will receive some actual help on offense with Blackmon or Richardson likely the pick. From a steeler fan perspective I would rather go up against RG3 and nothing else than McCoy and a talent like Blackmon or Richardson

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-09-2012, 11:22 PM
Surprised the Rams made a deal this early but looking at what they got, they weren't getting anything better than that.

The longer the Rams waited, the less they were going to get for the pick. It was in their best interest to drive up all the bidders before free agency got rolling.

Chidi29
03-09-2012, 11:27 PM
The longer the Rams waited, the less they were going to get for the pick. It was in their best interest to drive up all the bidders before free agency got rolling.

I suppose. I would have thought that after the "big two" were gone, Manning and Flynn, the teams that didn't snag either would really be in a tough spot, giving the Rams even more leverage. But great deal for St. Louis. Also got a future second round pick, too. Blackmon could very well be there at 7 when they pick. I know Cleveland could take him but receivers are prone to drop. Just as we saw the year we took Sweed; Donnie Avery was the first recevier taken with the first pick in the secons round.

7willBheaven
03-10-2012, 01:09 AM
The Rams got a good deal i think...not sure a team would have given up more than 3 1sts...I heard before they wanted at least 2 plus some other lower picks...and they got more than that. Now they really have some fire power to build a team around Bradford with. The Redskins on the other had may have to build their team around free agency and later round picks. Hopefully this move doesnt screw them over long term.

suitanim
03-12-2012, 05:26 AM
The one thing that this whole RGIII/Manning lottery process did was show a LOT of QB's how little their teams actually think of them. Sanchez, McCoy, Kolb, Tebow (although one could argue that Denver was hiring a mentor), Smith et al got a real wake-up call...