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View Full Version : Steelers Tender Contract To Free Agent Punter Jeremy Kapinos



stillers4me
02-22-2012, 06:15 PM
Steelers Depot:

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/02/steelers-tender-contract-to-free-agent-punter-jeremy-kapinos/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SteelersDepotBlog+%28Steelers +Depot+Blog%29

ALLD
02-22-2012, 06:22 PM
This is not a story unless a sportswriter fabricates a controversy.

Count Steeler
02-22-2012, 06:35 PM
But has he met with the Special Teams Coach yet?

Steeldude
02-22-2012, 06:35 PM
Why waste 1.27 million on Kapinos? Pick up a cheap, free agent punter

steelreserve
02-22-2012, 06:48 PM
Why waste 1.27 million on Kapinos? Pick up a cheap, free agent punter

Because look at how the other cheap, free agent punters worked out. Not so well. Kapinos was the first of the bunch who was actually decent. So I'm glad we're keeping him for the stability.

Look at it this way - last year we paid Sepulveda the same $1.27M RFA tender, plus we paid Kapinos another $600K. So we're actually saving money by not having to pay two punters once Sepulveda suffers his annual knee injury.

Chidi29
02-22-2012, 07:10 PM
Why waste 1.27 million on Kapinos? Pick up a cheap, free agent punter

Unless he is an ERFA. Then he'd be making 540K.

Chidi29
02-22-2012, 07:15 PM
Looked up the definition of an accrued season. Answer:

Accrued NFL Season:
6 or more regular-season games in one season in which a player is on the 53-man protected roster, IR list or PUP list

http://packerchatters.com/?page_id=223

Kapinos has only played six or more games in a season twice in a season, still putting him in the exclusive rights category.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8743/career;_ylt=AvYVDbv9WIg8R7nIYkqEjgv.uLYF

zulater
02-22-2012, 07:26 PM
Why waste 1.27 million on Kapinos? Pick up a cheap, free agent punter

Like Ernstine or Mitch Berger? No thanks, it's worth the extra half million to have someone competent.

SteelGhost
02-22-2012, 07:41 PM
This is not a story unless a sportswriter fabricates a controversy.

... or Jason La Cantina says something about it ... :lol:

86WARD
02-22-2012, 07:45 PM
Good with this. He's solid. Bye Sep...

steelerdude15
02-22-2012, 09:47 PM
Time to say goodbye to Sep.

tube517
02-22-2012, 10:46 PM
Kapinos doesn't hustle enough. Waste of money

7willBheaven
02-22-2012, 11:18 PM
Glad to hear this, he's done good for the Steelers. If this is the end for Sep...I've always liked him...but the injuries just were too much. Best of luck Sep...I wish ya well.

BigNastyDefense
02-22-2012, 11:31 PM
I am fine with this. He's a good punter, and will help the field position game. Sep was a good punter, but he just cannot stay healthy. Maybe he can convert to linebacker?

suitanim
02-23-2012, 05:17 AM
EASILY the most underrated position on the team. It all comes back to field position differential again. We were IIRC 27th last year and it's no coimcidence that we were, in turn, 22nd in scoring.

With the defense transitioning players and the offense transitioning it's coordinator with a bad Oline that is still, at best, in flux, that makes having a competent and dependable punter even more crucial.

Steeldude
02-23-2012, 05:27 AM
Like Ernstine or Mitch Berger? No thanks, it's worth the extra half million to have someone competent.

There isn't much difference between Kapinos and Berger.

Kapinos - 43.2 per punt
Berger - 42.9 per punt

Berger has a better success rate with putting the ball inside the 10 and 20 yards lines.

A half a million for .3 yards?

The Steelers could probably grab a punter in the 7th round that could the same or better.

Austin87
02-23-2012, 06:49 AM
Kapinos had a very good year averaging 45 yards per punt. This is probably the end of the road for Sep, hopefully he catches on with another team.

polamalubeast
02-23-2012, 06:57 AM
Why waste 1.27 million on Kapinos? Pick up a cheap, free agent punter

agree

suitanim
02-23-2012, 10:13 AM
agree

Sorry, that dog don't hunt. The average salary for a punter is up to 900k. Players still get paid by production, even punters. If we start cheaping out (and, seriously, how much are we gonna save? $200k? 300k? On a budget of 120 million?) and trying to save a few shekles on punters, it will come back to bite us in the ass. It seems like a great idea until we have Herm Schwartz (who we signed for 600k to save a couple bucks) from Idaho State shank a punt from our own 20 that costs us a critical division game.

I cite this as yet another great example of why it's great that fans have absolutely no say in how these organizations are run.

Bluecoat96
02-23-2012, 10:20 AM
I cite this as yet another great example of why it's great that fans have absolutely no say in how these organizations are run.

I concur.

polamalubeast
02-23-2012, 10:20 AM
I think that 1.27 million on a very average punter is too much.I think the Steelers could have waited after March 13 for the sign.

suitanim
02-23-2012, 10:31 AM
I don't see Kapinos as being "very average". His average yards-per-punt isn't the highest, but that's HIGHLY situational. It depends on where you're kicking from. It stands to reason that since the Steelers were at the top of the league in yards-per-drive, that the P would be kicking to bury opponents and not necessarily boom punts. He also, if you average it out, would have been close to the top of the stats in punts inside the 20. He shared duties with Sep, so you have to extrapolate some stats, but he was on pace given 100 punts to stick opponents inside their own 20 about 30 times. The league leader only did it 34 times. That ain't average.

The team was right on with this call. Trying to nickel and dime a position that is so instrumental in field position, especially playing in weather and in a black-and-blue division would be a critical mistake. The highest paid punter made 2 million a year, so, given that, 1.27 million is just about right. The FO got this one right.

fansince'76
02-23-2012, 10:36 AM
How quickly people forget the abortion that was the Steelers punting game in 2008. Thankfully, our defense had a legendary season that year and could compensate for the horrible punting and short fields Berger and Ernster were giving opponents at the time. Thanks to rules changes and age, it no longer can. Good signing.

polamalubeast
02-23-2012, 10:41 AM
I don't see Kapinos as being "very average". His average yards-per-punt isn't the highest, but that's HIGHLY situational. It depends on where you're kicking from. It stands to reason that since the Steelers were at the top of the league in yards-per-drive, that the P would be kicking to bury opponents and not necessarily boom punts. He also, if you average it out, would have been close to the top of the stats in punts inside the 20. He shared duties with Sep, so you have to extrapolate some stats, but he was on pace given 100 punts to stick opponents inside their own 20 about 30 times. The league leader only did it 34 times. That ain't average.

The team was right on with this call. Trying to nickel and dime a position that is so instrumental in field position, especially playing in weather and in a black-and-blue division would be a critical mistake. The highest paid punter made 2 million a year, so, given that, 1.27 million is just about right. The FO got this one right.


You might be right.


How quickly people forget the abortion that was the Steelers punting game in 2008. Thankfully, our defense had a legendary season that year and could compensate for the horrible punting and short fields Berger and Ernster were giving opponents at the time. Thanks to rules changes and age, it no longer can. Good signing.




Except Matt Dodge, I do not think than its possible to find a worse punter that in 2008!

GBMelBlount
02-23-2012, 11:48 AM
Why would we pay a below average punter $350,000 more than nfl average for a punter?

Chidi29
02-23-2012, 12:31 PM
Guys, I think he's getting 540K. Not 1.27 million.

steelreserve
02-23-2012, 12:52 PM
There isn't much difference between Kapinos and Berger.

Kapinos - 43.2 per punt
Berger - 42.9 per punt

Berger has a better success rate with putting the ball inside the 10 and 20 yards lines.

A half a million for .3 yards?

The Steelers could probably grab a punter in the 7th round that could the same or better.

If all you're looking at is .3 yards, you're really missing most of the reasons why a punter is good or bad. Berger was barely passable on his first go-around, but there's a reason we didn't bring him back after his second stint. The average yards per punt may be close, but it really tells you nothing about things like - shanking kicks at key moments, or kicking line drives that let the opponent get a nice running start for a big return.

Berger may have been slightly "better" at landing the ball inside the 20 when we had good field position, but I cannot even count how many times when we were backed up inside our own 20 - line drive, opponent fields it near the 50, returns it to our 40 or better. Those kinds of things don't show up as "big plays" on a season-long stat sheet that only looks at total yards and a couple of situational statistics. But you give up one or two of those every game, and it kills you.

suitanim
02-23-2012, 12:56 PM
Why would we pay a below average punter $350,000 more than nfl average for a punter?

Who is the "below average punter"?

Based on average per kick, he was 22nd, but again, that is a deceiving stat for a punter. It's far different when kicking from the 50 versus kicking from your own 20. Based on 100 punts, he'd have been about 5th in fair catches, and he would have been 1st in touchbacks, as he only had 1 all year, which would average out to 3. His net was 38.3, but he only had one TB and he didn't kick any balls out of bounds, so he was obviously kicking on a lot of short fields trying to pin the opposing team deep.

SteelGhost
02-23-2012, 07:48 PM
I don't see Kapinos as being "very average". His average yards-per-punt isn't the highest, but that's HIGHLY situational. It depends on where you're kicking from. It stands to reason that since the Steelers were at the top of the league in yards-per-drive, that the P would be kicking to bury opponents and not necessarily boom punts. He also, if you average it out, would have been close to the top of the stats in punts inside the 20. He shared duties with Sep, so you have to extrapolate some stats, but he was on pace given 100 punts to stick opponents inside their own 20 about 30 times. The league leader only did it 34 times. That ain't average.

The team was right on with this call. Trying to nickel and dime a position that is so instrumental in field position, especially playing in weather and in a black-and-blue division would be a critical mistake. The highest paid punter made 2 million a year, so, given that, 1.27 million is just about right. The FO got this one right.

QFT, nice post Suit

Steeldude
02-24-2012, 04:49 AM
If all you're looking at is .3 yards, you're really missing most of the reasons why a punter is good or bad. Berger was barely passable on his first go-around, but there's a reason we didn't bring him back after his second stint. The average yards per punt may be close, but it really tells you nothing about things like - shanking kicks at key moments, or kicking line drives that let the opponent get a nice running start for a big return.

Berger may have been slightly "better" at landing the ball inside the 20 when we had good field position, but I cannot even count how many times when we were backed up inside our own 20 - line drive, opponent fields it near the 50, returns it to our 40 or better. Those kinds of things don't show up as "big plays" on a season-long stat sheet that only looks at total yards and a couple of situational statistics. But you give up one or two of those every game, and it kills you.

I hear what you are saying, but how many times could it have happened if their averages are only .3 yards apart? Berger's net average is just a tad better than Kapinos'. I feel the Steelers should draft a top 5 punter in the 6th or 7th round. How much worse could he be? The salary cap is tight and Kapinos is an average punter. IMO, that extra $500,000 could be better spent elsewhere.

Didn't Berger play only one season with the Steelers?

suitanim
02-24-2012, 05:29 AM
Guys, I think he's getting 540K. Not 1.27 million.

Do you know how much he actually cost? Because I read somewhere it was only 400k, which would mean Kap is actually a great value. I also read that another kicker (Maybe Reed? Can't remember) said that if Sep kept kicking the way he does, he's going to tear his knee up again.

Finally, the REAL issue isn't punter, it's kicker. Suisham ranked last or close to last in the league. We were FIRST in the league in 2007. We have basically fallen from first to worst in just a few years. Remember the year prior Suisham missed a 43 yarder against the Rats in the playoffs, and that almost cost us, and he also missed a 52 yard attempt in the SB (although 52 is a long attempt). We need to address K in camp.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-24-2012, 09:49 AM
If he is getting $540k, then its reasonable contract. He's an average punter with some experience. Nobody expects a pro bowl punter, but Kapinos isnt even as good as Jon Ryan.........and who again is Jon Ryan?? Exactly.

If we paid him $1.2mil, then I am going to question his hustle and level of play based on that contract.

suitanim
02-24-2012, 09:58 AM
I'm sorry, but this is another case where the stats are deceiving. It's "Allen Iverson" stat watching...the dude scored a lot of points, but he also threw up 100 garbage shots a game...or thinking that Jamarcus Russell is a great QB because he can throw the ball 75 yards. It's more subtle than that...

Kapinos only had ONE touchback all year. He was on pace to be in the top 5 in punts downed inside the 20. He was on pace to have a LOT of fair catches. His average and net average would necessarily suffer because we asked him to kick on a lot of short fields. More so because our FG kicker had the worst 40+ kick percentage in the league. A guy is never going to average 50 yards a punt if he's routinely punting from the oppositions 45.

tube517
02-24-2012, 10:20 AM
If he is getting $540k, then its reasonable contract. He's an average punter with some experience. Nobody expects a pro bowl punter, but Kapinos isnt even as good as Jon Ryan.........and who again is Jon Ryan?? Exactly.

If we paid him $1.2mil, then I am going to question his hustle and level of play based on that contract.

Even at $540k he doesn't hustle enough. Look elsewhere. :coffee:

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-24-2012, 11:10 AM
Even at $540k he doesn't hustle enough. Look elsewhere. :coffee: You are right. He's got a similar stat line as Ben Graham. But Ben Graham hustles to the Gatorade bucket after punts. I think we should have targeted Graham instead.

Chidi29
02-24-2012, 02:56 PM
Do you know how much he actually cost? Because I read somewhere it was only 400k, which would mean Kap is actually a great value. I also read that another kicker (Maybe Reed? Can't remember) said that if Sep kept kicking the way he does, he's going to tear his knee up again.

Finally, the REAL issue isn't punter, it's kicker. Suisham ranked last or close to last in the league. We were FIRST in the league in 2007. We have basically fallen from first to worst in just a few years. Remember the year prior Suisham missed a 43 yarder against the Rats in the playoffs, and that almost cost us, and he also missed a 52 yard attempt in the SB (although 52 is a long attempt). We need to address K in camp.

Somewhere between 540K and 700K. Redman and McClendon are ERFA and got 540K. Steelersdepot said he's getting around 700K.

I'm all for adding competition at kicker but still think Suisham was better than what most people made him out to be.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-24-2012, 03:58 PM
Somewhere between 540K and 700K. Redman and McClendon are ERFA and got 540K. Steelersdepot said he's getting around 700K.

I'm all for adding competition at kicker but still think Suisham was better than what most people made him out to be.

I agree, I think its another case of where stats can be deceiving.

suitanim
02-24-2012, 04:00 PM
Somewhere between 540K and 700K. Redman and McClendon are ERFA and got 540K. Steelersdepot said he's getting around 700K.

I'm all for adding competition at kicker but still think Suisham was better than what most people made him out to be.

He was reliable inside 40 yards...but it's not 1976 anymore. A FG kicker in today's NFL doesn't need to be able to make 63 yard FG's, but he needs to be able to hit the vast majority of his 40+ AND be relied upon to be able to make the occasional 50+. Suisham also doesn't have the strongest leg on kickoffs, either.

suitanim
02-24-2012, 04:09 PM
I agree, I think its another case of where stats can be deceiving.

You'll lose here, too.

Suisham was 34th in kicking percentage.
20th in longest kick made
He was 100% in kicks of 1-19 yards
100% in 20-29
Only 75% on kicks 30-39 (towards the bottom of the league...only 9 of 34 kickers tracked were worse)
54% at 40-49, 30 of 35
And only hit 1 of 2 attempts from 50+

There were several teams that attempted 6, 7, 8 and 9 kicks from 50+. I don't blame Tomlin at all for taking a pass on Suisham. He's not a good kicker from distance. The facts, the evidence, AND the stats back that up.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-24-2012, 04:38 PM
So the stats are only deceiving when it supports your position that Kapinos is a good punter, but not when it supports Chidi's position that Suisham is a good kicker??

I forgot. Revs has spoken........therefore it cannot be wrong.

Chidi29
02-24-2012, 04:55 PM
You'll lose here, too.

Suisham was 34th in kicking percentage.
20th in longest kick made
He was 100% in kicks of 1-19 yards
100% in 20-29
Only 75% on kicks 30-39 (towards the bottom of the league...only 9 of 34 kickers tracked were worse)
54% at 40-49, 30 of 35
And only hit 1 of 2 attempts from 50+

There were several teams that attempted 6, 7, 8 and 9 kicks from 50+. I don't blame Tomlin at all for taking a pass on Suisham. He's not a good kicker from distance. The facts, the evidence, AND the stats back that up.

Heinz Field is obviously tough to kick in. I believe Suisham was 11/14 on the road in the regular season, 14/17 if you count the playoffs.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-24-2012, 05:44 PM
Heinz Field is obviously tough to kick in. I believe Suisham was 11/14 on the road in the regular season, 14/17 if you count the playoffs.

So you are saying he was 82% on the road and 64% kicking at Heinz Field. How is it that he is not an equally bad kicker both home and away???

The evidence and the stats seem to back up the thought that there might be a disadvantage for kickers kicking at Heinz field??? No way!!

Steeldude
02-24-2012, 05:50 PM
He was on pace to be in the top 5 in punts downed inside the 20

Actually he is below the 2011 average for punts inside the 20. Didn't he only drop 29%(10 out of 34) of his punts inside the 20? I believe the NFL average in 2011 was 31.8% of punts dropped inside the 20. The best was a 42%. Using those stats shows Kapinos was below average. That being said, there is not a huge difference in punters overall. Why pay an average or below average punter $1.27 million?



It's "Allen Iverson" stat watching...the dude scored a lot of points, but he also threw up 100 garbage shots a game

Which is pretty much what you used when trying to make a point about Kapinos. The more punts he kicks the more chances he has of it landing inside the 20. Just as Iverson throwing up more shots means more possible points.

GBMelBlount
02-24-2012, 08:12 PM
Suisham is a below average kicker.

This could be another reason we were 11th in offense and 21st in scoring.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Suisham is a below average kicker.

This could be another reason we were 11th in offense and 21st in scoring.

Yeah, if he only could have hit 6 of the 8 that he missed over the season we would have averaged another 1 point a game more. That would have made a big difference.

Texasteel
02-25-2012, 06:49 AM
Why pay an average or below average punter $1.27 million?



I hate to get in the way of a good discussion, but didn't we alread decide this was a bogus amount?

zulater
02-25-2012, 07:14 AM
Yeah, if he only could have hit 6 of the 8 that he missed over the season we would have averaged another 1 point a game more. That would have made a big difference.

It wasn't just the ones he missed, it's also the one's that Tomlin dare not even try due to a utter lack of confidence in Suisham's ability to make an important kick. You could make an argument that our season was lost in our home game to the Ravens. That Tomlin wouldn't "chance" a 47 yard field goal in ideal weather conditions that would give you a full touchdown lead in the final minutes of a game tells you what he thinks of Suisham.

GBMelBlount
02-25-2012, 07:18 AM
It wasn't just the ones he missed, it's also the one's that Tomlin dare not even try due to a utter lack of confidence in Suisham's ability to make an important kick.

You could make an argument that our season was lost in our home game to the Ravens. That Tomlin wouldn't "chance" a 47 yard field goal in ideal weather conditions that would give you a full touchdown lead in the final minutes of a game tells you what he thinks of Suisham.

Exactly.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-25-2012, 08:31 AM
It wasn't just the ones he missed, it's also the one's that Tomlin dare not even try due to a utter lack of confidence in Suisham's ability to make an important kick. You could make an argument that our season was lost in our home game to the Ravens. That Tomlin wouldn't "chance" a 47 yard field goal in ideal weather conditions that would give you a full touchdown lead in the final minutes of a game tells you what he thinks of Suisham.

You could make an argument of that, but there are no stats to support it and I thought that it has been deemed, by people more intelligent than us, that the defense wilting in the final drive caused that loss and the subsequent end to the season in Denver.

Suisham aint that bad, he is average and can be upgraded. Kapinos too is average and hopefully only wasted $540k on him and not paid him a premium.

suitanim
02-25-2012, 08:37 AM
So the stats are only deceiving when it supports your position that Kapinos is a good punter, but not when it supports Chidi's position that Suisham is a good kicker??

I forgot. Revs has spoken........therefore it cannot be wrong.

Wrong again, high school. I posted ALL of Suisham's stats, and didn't just cherry pick the ones that support my position, and ignore the ones that don't. Suisham (as I stated) was a good and reliable kicker INSIDE THE 40. He was far below average outside of it. That's unacceptable in the NFL.

And, since it's checkers, not chess, you have to THINK a little about the relationship between scoring, your FG kicker, and the positions it places your punter in. Kapinos "prestige stats" (the only ones that seem to matter to his detractors) would almost certainly be better if he was routinely punting another 10-15 yards farther back, which would mean he was TRYING to boom 60 yarders. We all watched all the same games. We all know Tomlin had little faith in Suisham outside 40 yards, and we all saw both Sep and Kap be asked to kick from sometimes as close as the oppositions 35-40 yard line. It's ridiculous to ignore ALL the stats, ignore the empirical evidence (that, again, we all observed) and instead focus on just a few elements of a complex subject just to try to prove someone wrong in a misguided and juvenile MB pissing match.

Kapinos lacked a full season's body of work, but extrapolating out, it sure looks like he would do fine given what the Steelers will be asking him to do. Suisham is CLEARLY a fine and accurate kicker INSIDE 40, and average or below average outside of it. I apologize if the above statements are offensive to you because they are accurate and were made by me, but that in no way impugns or discredits their status as factual, and your smug and sarcastic sour grapes will also do nothing to detract from their accuracy.

GBMelBlount
02-25-2012, 08:47 AM
Kapinos "prestige stats" (the only ones that seem to matter to his detractors) would almost certainly be better if he was routinely punting another 10-15 yards farther back, which would mean he was TRYING to boom 60 yarders.

Many of those punts in question may have been field goal attempts for other teams....

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-25-2012, 11:43 AM
Kapinos is the 2nd coming of Ray Guy. Stats prove it, the guru's know it, we should back up $2 million for him and sign him long term I guess.

Personally, I am just happy that it looks like we only paid an average salary for an average punter.

Steeldude
02-25-2012, 05:20 PM
Many of those punts in question may have been field goal attempts for other teams....

I don't think Suitanim understands that the stat(punts inside 20) he presented shows Kapinos to be below average. It appears any way the stats are sliced up it comes out with Kapinos being average or below average.

Steeldude
02-25-2012, 05:23 PM
It has been confirmed that Kapinos is indeed an exclusive rights free agent like I originally thought and his one-year tender should be $700,000

Draft a punter in the 6th or 7th round. He couldn't be any worse and he would be cheaper.

BlastFurnace
02-25-2012, 05:48 PM
He has suddenness and glide when he punts.

Count Steeler
02-25-2012, 09:49 PM
Wouldn't waste a pick on a punter. Has to be someone available as an UDFA. Same with the kicker.

86WARD
02-25-2012, 10:30 PM
Lol @ people attempting to defend Suisham. Nothing but pure homerism at its finest there...

zulater
02-25-2012, 10:35 PM
Draft a punter in the 6th or 7th round. He couldn't be any worse and he would be cheaper.

Of course he could be worse. We've seen far worse. And don't trot me out averages. It's about situations, and how they handle them.

It's funny, they rate field goal kickers by where they kick from. They have a stat from virtually every year marker for fg kickers. Yet with punters with the way they list their stats you get no sense of where they punted from. They should have some listing of what punters do when the line of scrimmage is inside their own 35. That's how you get a sense of how big of leg your punter has, and also how reliable he is in tilting the field in your favor.

Anyway the Steelers are going to keep Kapinos because he was a very effective punter for them, and they gave him the going rate for a punter of his ability. Sure you can bring in another leg for camp, maybe you discover a diamond in the rough in case you need an injury replacement later on. But the Steelers have enough needs to address in the draft without wasting one on a position they're already set in.

You may not like it, but that's irrelevant. Kapinos almost certainly will be the Steelers punter, and there's nothing wrong with that. He wont be overpaid, he wont be underpaid, he'll get what he's worth, and it wont be a burden to their cap.

I really don't see what's here to talk about to be honest? This is a real yawner if you ask me.

Steeldude
02-26-2012, 03:36 AM
I really don't see what's here to talk about to be honest? This is a real yawner if you ask me.

Then go to another thread. Simple solution.

zulater
02-26-2012, 05:06 AM
Then go to another thread. Simple solution.

Maybe I will. But I've got to admit watching you cry on endlessly about things of no consequence amuses me.

Texasteel
02-26-2012, 05:11 AM
Please keep the comments to the topic at hand.

HometownGal
02-26-2012, 06:08 AM
Please keep the comments to the topic at hand.

AMEN to that.

zulater
02-26-2012, 06:21 AM
Please keep the comments to the topic at hand.

Sorry, but it's comes off pretty silly to me discussing the possibility of the Steelers using a 6th or 7th round draft pick on a punter when it's pretty clear they're happy with what they've got in Kapinos. Which in effect means short of Kapinos breaking his leg the day before the draft or something, there's about .0001% chance they would actually employ the suggested "strategy".

As has been expounded on in this thread Kapinos number isn't quite what the op suggests. Add further, bringing in any available veteran punter would cost you relatively the same, so what's the issue?

btw I'm all for bringing in a undrafted free agent punter to challenge Kapinos in camp.

Topical enough Tex?

zulater
02-26-2012, 06:25 AM
AMEN to that.

Good to see you posting Marianne!:wave: Hope you're feeling well this morning! :hug:

GBMelBlount
02-26-2012, 06:33 AM
GBMelBlount

Many of those punts in question may have been field goal attempts for other teams....


It appears any way the stats are sliced up it comes out with Kapinos being average or below average.

When you have a field goal kicker with no leg it CAN affect the punters stats.

So I think Kapinos is probably better than I thought by just looking at his stats alone and at $700,000 I am perfectly fine with Kapinos.

I am more concerned about our kickers leg (distance) than Kapinos.

Texasteel
02-26-2012, 07:24 AM
Sorry, but it's comes off pretty silly to me discussing the possibility of the Steelers using a 6th or 7th round draft pick on a punter when it's pretty clear they're happy with what they've got in Kapinos. Which in effect means short of Kapinos breaking his leg the day before the draft or something, there's about .0001% chance they would actually employ the suggested "strategy".

As has been expounded on in this thread Kapinos number isn't quite what the op suggests. Add further, bringing in any available veteran punter would cost you relatively the same, so what's the issue?

btw I'm all for bringing in a undrafted free agent punter to challenge Kapinos in camp.

Topical enough Tex?

Thank you Zu. Personally I think Kapinos is an above average punter, and we were just plain lucky to get him back. Like we have talked before I don't think you can completely judge a punter on stats alone, you need to watch what actually happens in the game, does he give you and keep you in favorable field position.

I just do not think we need to address the personality of a poster, or tell anyone, " If you don't like what is being written, just go away." Both of these can at least look like flaming, or baiting.

suitanim
02-26-2012, 07:53 AM
Kapinos stint with Green Bay was dismal. He's a much better punter now.

The horses have been led to the water, and some refuse to drink. That's how it's been, is, and will remain. No sense beating heads against walls...

zulater
02-26-2012, 09:08 AM
Kapinos stint with Green Bay was dismal. He's a much better punter now.

The horses have been led to the water, and some refuse to drink. That's how it's been, is, and will remain. No sense beating heads against walls...

What, you mean the Steelers paying their average punter an average NFL punter's salary isn't of great concern to you?!:hmm:

:lol:

suitanim
02-27-2012, 05:18 AM
What, you mean the Steelers paying their average punter an average NFL punter's salary isn't of great concern to you?!:hmm:

:lol:

The funny thing is that, rather being much ado about nothing, it actually looks like the Steelers are going to pay LESS than the average (some reports being he's getting HALF the average) for a guy who's a much better than average FIT for the Steelers.

But we still need a kicker who can hit from 40+. This ain't college ball...

Steeldude
02-27-2012, 06:13 PM
When you have a field goal kicker with no leg it CAN affect the punters stats.

So I think Kapinos is probably better than I thought by just looking at his stats alone and at $700,000 I am perfectly fine with Kapinos.

I am more concerned about our kickers leg (distance) than Kapinos.

Then wouldn't this punter have a better success rate at landing them inside the 20 if he is kicking on a short field?

SteelGhost
02-27-2012, 06:13 PM
IMHO they want Kaps back for one reason ... he's a RELIABLE punter, and that's a good thing :thumbsup:

Steeldude
02-27-2012, 06:18 PM
Maybe I will. But I've got to admit watching you cry on endlessly about things of no consequence amuses me.

Oops, I forgot, the cap is a non-issue. I also forgot that many of you like to overpay for mediocrity.

X-Terminator
02-27-2012, 07:21 PM
Oops, I forgot, the cap is a non-issue. I also forgot that many of you like to overpay for mediocrity.

According to Steelers Depot, his tender is for 700K. What's the problem with that?

zulater
02-27-2012, 07:29 PM
Oops, I forgot, the cap is a non-issue. I also forgot that many of you like to overpay for mediocrity.

If by many of us, you mean the Steelers. I suppose you're right. But hey, what do they know? It's not as if they have the business sense that you do. Maybe you can talk them into signing one kicker to do both jobs? That would save some money. And since the punter normally holds on place kicks, we could revert to the drop kick!

Psycho Ward 86
02-27-2012, 07:40 PM
Oops, I forgot, the cap is a non-issue. I also forgot that many of you like to overpay for mediocrity.

lol, just by cutting aaron smith and hines ward + restructuring harrison's deal (which he wants to anyways), we can already franchise wallace easily. There's so many more cuts and adjustments we can make on top of that to clear up cap space. Maybe if you took the time to understand the situation you'd realize that paying a decent punter 700k is hardly anything...as is in any situation :lol:

GBMelBlount
02-27-2012, 07:44 PM
Then wouldn't this punter have a better success rate at landing them inside the 20 if he is kicking on a short field?

I don't know.

It certainly can explain why the average punt distance is slightly below average.

But as far as how short punts affect the percentage of punts inside the 20 I am not sure.

I would imagine it might not be easy for some kickers who are use to "punting away" to dink and dunk 20 to 30 yard punts.

tube517
02-27-2012, 09:02 PM
If by many of us, you mean the Steelers. I suppose you're right. But hey, what do they know? It's not as if they have the business sense that you do. Maybe you can talk them into signing one kicker to do both jobs? That would save some money. And since the punter normally holds on place kicks, we could revert to the drop kick!

Need to hustle to drop kick. I see none of that in this "special teams" crew. :nono:

Steeldude
02-27-2012, 10:29 PM
lol, just by cutting aaron smith and hines ward + restructuring harrison's deal (which he wants to anyways), we can already franchise wallace easily. There's so many more cuts and adjustments we can make on top of that to clear up cap space. Maybe if you took the time to understand the situation you'd realize that paying a decent punter 700k is hardly anything...as is in any situation :lol:

Am I saying it's the end of the world that they overpaid an average to below average punter? It's amazing how riled up people get for certain players :lol:

zulater
02-28-2012, 05:17 AM
Am I saying it's the end of the world that they overpaid an average to below average punter? It's amazing how riled up people get for certain players :lol:

You really think anyone has a "special place" for Kapinos? :lol: Get real. All this is about is knowing that the Steelers are paying their average punter slightly above vet minimum and seeing no problem with it. If you bothered to do the research you'd probably find that there's going to be about 20 punters paid more than Kapinon around the league next year. So again what's the big deal?

Now of course you'd rather have some rookie scrub who would be flipping field position away from us by about 8 yards a possession to save 300k of cap space. But most of us don't see it that way. We have no attachment to the punter, just reality. Therein lies the difference between us.

suitanim
02-28-2012, 05:37 AM
The stats actually show that Kap did a good job dropping punts inside the 20. The league leader had 34. Based on Kap kicking 100 punts (he only kicked about 1/3rd of that), he would have landed about 30 inside the 20. That'd be top 5.

So we have a punter that fits our system and does what we ask him to do, and he'll be paid 200k less than the average position salary. This discussion should be closed...

zulater
02-28-2012, 10:19 AM
The stats actually show that Kap did a good job dropping punts inside the 20. The league leader had 34. Based on Kap kicking 100 punts (he only kicked about 1/3rd of that), he would have landed about 30 inside the 20. That'd be top 5.

So we have a punter that fits our system and does what we ask him to do, and he'll be paid 200k less than the average position salary. This discussion should be closed...

I haven't broke down all the numbers. But as someone who's watched every Steelers game multiple times, I'll say this. Kapinos didn't saddle us with very many bad punts. In crucial situations he almost always delivered an acceptable to exceptional punt. I can't recall a single sore thumb moment, where you thought, damn, that punt could cost us this game! :doh: Now I certainly wouldn't put him in the class with the guy from Oakland or San Fran. But he's not getting paid like those guys either. He's at the very least an average punter, who's earned his average punter's pay.

One last thing, for anyone who does try to break his numbers down too intensely, factor in this. He didn't get to play until mid season. In other words already being saddled with punting in a non dome or fair weathered city, he got further burdened by missing out on the good weathered portion of the season. He probably had a higher percentage of punts in some sort of adverse weather condition than any punter in the league last season.

suitanim
02-28-2012, 10:25 AM
I haven't broke down all the numbers. But as someone who's watched every Steelers game multiple times, I'll say this. Kapinos didn't saddle us with very many bad punts. In crucial situations he almost always delivered an acceptable to exceptional punt. I can't recall a single sore thumb moment, where you thought, damn, that punt could cost us this game! :doh: Now I certainly wouldn't put him in the class with the guy from Oakland or San Fran. But he's not getting paid like those guys either. He's at the very least an average punter, who's earned his average punter's pay.

One last thing, for anyone who does try to break his numbers down too intensely, factor in this. He didn't get to play until mid season. In other words already being saddled with punting in a non dome or fair weathered city, he got further burdened by missing out on the good weathered portion of the season. He probably had a higher percentage of punts in some sort of adverse weather condition than any punter in the league last season.

I also don't remember a single botch job, you know those terrible shanks where the ball careens out of bounds and you have to hold your breath as the side judge keeps running closer and closer back towards the LOS to mark the ball, and stops 8 yards from where we originally kicked from.

zulater
02-28-2012, 10:40 AM
I also don't remember a single botch job, you know those terrible shanks where the ball careens out of bounds and you have to hold your breath as the side judge keeps running closer and closer back towards the LOS to mark the ball, and stops 8 yards from where we originally kicked from.

Of course he also didn't provide us with those splash plays Berger and Ernster did back in 2008 either. You know, the one's where they'd shank it so bad that it would go about 20 yards and bounce back with some wicked English and hit some poor unsuspecting up man from the other team in the back of the knee, giving us a fumble. :lol: That in fact is how the momentum from the divisional playoff game against the Chargers that year changed completely.

All kidding aside, I don't know why a special team coach wouldn't put that punt in in certain situations? Say you're down 14 or more late 3rd quarter, and come to a punting situation. Get your punter to shank one in the middle of the blocking formation and play for the bounce!

Steeldude
02-28-2012, 12:18 PM
The stats actually show that Kap did a good job dropping punts inside the 20. The league leader had 34. Based on Kap kicking 100 punts (he only kicked about 1/3rd of that), he would have landed about 30 inside the 20. That'd be top 5.

So we have a punter that fits our system and does what we ask him to do, and he'll be paid 200k less than the average position salary. This discussion should be closed...

He would not have been top 5. To fairly compare all of the punters, the way you chose, you would have to base your stats on each punter having a 100 kicks. Guess who ends up slightly below average?

Steeldude
02-28-2012, 12:29 PM
One last thing, for anyone who does try to break his numbers down too intensely, factor in this. He didn't get to play until mid season. In other words already being saddled with punting in a non dome or fair weathered city, he got further burdened by missing out on the good weathered portion of the season. He probably had a higher percentage of punts in some sort of adverse weather condition than any punter in the league last season.

What's the next excuse? You guys are going to great lengths to protect an average to below average punter :lol: Relax, he will probably be the punter this coming season.

zulater
02-28-2012, 01:36 PM
He would not have been top 5. To fairly compare all of the punters, the way you chose, you would have to base your stats on each punter having a 100 kicks. Guess who ends up slightly below average?

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/average/punter/

And guess what. the top 5 punters all make over 2 million dollars. That's really where you want to go with this?:wtf:

zulater
02-28-2012, 01:42 PM
What's the next excuse? You guys are going to great lengths to protect an average to below average punter :lol: Relax, he will probably be the punter this coming season.

What are you talking about?


There's no excuses being offered. I said he's average, and he's being paid accordingly. Not a problem for most of us.

The only "lengths" I've gone to, are to appease you. That ends with this post.

Steeldude
02-28-2012, 01:45 PM
And guess what. the top 5 punters all make over 2 million dollars. That's really where you want to go with this?:wtf:

Your point? No one is claiming he is a top 5 punter, except for Suitanim it seems.

Perhaps I should stop posting in this thread. You are getting hot under the collar over a person's opinion on a punter.

To cool you off I will say "You are right. Kapinos is a great deal. The weather stopped him from being top 5 in the NFL. The cap is irrelevant. One should never post an opinion without first checking with certain members of this forum".

XxKnightxX
02-28-2012, 01:49 PM
I will tell you this......

Why has a thread about a punter reached 3 pages?

polamalubeast
02-28-2012, 02:00 PM
Seriously, talk about a punter should never be a big topic.....

Texasteel
02-28-2012, 02:27 PM
I have asked for everyone to keep this civil. This thread has gone as far as it is going to.